India Forum Archives
Friday, June 02, 2006
  Miscellaneous Topics

Posted by: Viren Aug 13 2003, 12:17 PM

Ah...the party has already begun. smile.gif

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Aug 13 2003, 02:40 PM

Kaushal at some point may be you could advertise about this new forum on your Yahoo MLists.

Posted by: Viren Aug 13 2003, 08:11 PM

HH: Kaushal had emailed everyone in the Bharatnirbhaya list. Are there others?

Posted by: Rangudu Aug 14 2003, 12:13 PM

Hi all. Can we get more members please. Nice site this. I think this is owned by Rhytha, right?

Posted by: rhytha Aug 14 2003, 01:27 PM

Welcome rangudu, biggrin.gif , i would'nt call this site mine, its a public forum and its users own, i just sponser the platter. tongue.gif

Posted by: AJay Aug 14 2003, 09:34 PM

A couple of planning questions for this board. 1. I am in the process of screen scraping trash can archives from the BRF. Essentially it will be a perl script which would take printer friendly copy of thr trashed forum, compress it and dump it to hard disk. This perl script can be kicked off using cron. Once the size reaches say 500MB (to fit onto a CDROM), the volume will be closed and a new volume started. The closed volume can then be dumped to a CDROM. I will write a couple of utilities to do dump to CD ROM and read and present from a CD ROM (uncompress and run a browser on the volume, basically). 2. I am hoping that india-forum also will become busy and will be facing the same kind of space problems as BRF. Would the admins be kind enough to move the threads to a holding place so that a similar script can be employed to archive forums which would otherwise go to the bit bucket?

Posted by: rhytha Aug 14 2003, 11:09 PM

hi ajay welcome to the forum. smile.gif yes i would be intrested in this as well. rolleyes.gif i have created a trash can and a library for the archived links. hope this helps regards rhytha

Posted by: AJay Aug 15 2003, 06:32 AM

Rytha Thanks. That would help. I will have to start writing the script. May be in a few days...

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Aug 15 2003, 08:49 PM

Should we choose a formal name for the forum? Suggestion: Bharata Vaada Samsad Bharata Vishaya Samsad Bharata Loka Jambudvipa It could even be bilingual.

Posted by: rhytha Aug 15 2003, 11:46 PM

HH put up a poll and see the results.!! smile.gif

Posted by: Jaspreet Aug 16 2003, 05:36 AM

Rhytha, Maybe this forum should also have articles written by members. This will generate more discussion and traffic.

Posted by: rhytha Aug 16 2003, 06:41 AM

welcome to the forum jaspreet tongue.gif , don't understand what you mean by articles. :huh: besides the forum is just 3 days old, so i thnk brites will start hitting the circuit reguraly soon i guess biggrin.gif

Posted by: Jaspreet Aug 16 2003, 09:41 AM

I mean essays, compositions, critiques of papers & books. They'd be different from the usual posts on the forum in that they'd go through a rigorous process of thought, survey and editing and will have references. Is this what you meant when you said you didn't understand what I meant by articles?

Posted by: rhytha Aug 17 2003, 11:27 AM

did anyone watch amir khan with the IA on 15th august smile.gif . wow it was quite cool, seems the official dream girl of the IA is rani mukerji. amir khan handled himself very well B) and was quite reassuring.

Posted by: Viren Aug 18 2003, 11:39 AM

Received via email:

> The folks who sent me the petition are hoping for at > least 5000 Indian signatures in order for us to get > noticed... since none of us are in a position to > take on the Lashkar in J&K, the least we can do is > try and help in a small ways such as this... so > please sign it and tell all your friends... also > tell them to clearly sign their location as INDIA. > That is very important. > > >PS: After you have signed the petition, clearly stating your location as *INDIA*, please forward this message to all your friends in India and elsewhere. Thanks

Posted by: Krishna Aug 18 2003, 03:18 PM

Viren, Does this really help India's cause in any way? unsure.gif This seems to me more of a showdown between Israel / Palestine ? unsure.gif

Posted by: Viren Aug 18 2003, 09:40 PM

Krishna: I had cut+pasted the email that I had received. Nevertheless,... >>Does this really help India's cause in any way? my opinion. wink.gif Yes, are correct in stating this is a middle east issue. But I don't want to wait for jihadis to start blowing up cafes/pubs in Chennai/Mumbai to draft this petition. Also if Israelis/Jews are authors of this - then Indians endorsing it in huge numbers is definitely a big plus - again IMHO. As I read this petition my jaundiced eye can see this as being directed towards the mulla-military jihadi combine of TSP. The petition reads: (my comments in italics)

To: UN and World Government Leaders We, the undersigned, petition the United Nations, its Security Council and World Government Leaders to join Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch to declare that homicide/suicide bombings and acts of terror against civilians are "war crimes against humanity." I believe terrorism *is* a "war crime against humanity" and should be labelled so - hopefully TSP-rogue-army brass will stand Numemberg type trials for this one day. Furthermore, we insist that the United Nations, its Security Council and World Government Leaders declare that raising infants and children to become suicidal/homicidal bombers is a violation of fundamental human rights, a breach of the Geneva Convention and a war crime. We ask that those political, governmental, military and religious organizations and their leaders and supporters be prosecuted by the International War Crimes Tribunal to the fullest extent of International Law. again, does TSP not fit this definition? It is our firm belief that when these genocidal war crimes cease, populations will not have to conduct defensive actions against terrorism. When that happens, there stands to be improved chances of peace in the world through negotiation and civilized conflict resolution. The petitioners firmly believe that conflicts in the Middle East and elsewhere can and must be resolved by diplomatic, political and negotiated means, but that when civilians are attacked by terrorists, there is no recourse but for defensive measures. given the fact that there are no war clouds hovering around TSP and our ABV is singing hindi-paki bhai bhai while kids are still being killed by TSP jihadis, what else can a average joe do? We have signed this position and sent it to people of all faiths, ethnic backgrounds and political beliefs with the hopes that the UN and World Leaders will not only vote to divest countries of their weapons of mass destruction, but upon the immorality and criminality of raising of innocents to kill other innocents. Name one terror state "raising innocents to kill other innocents"? Sincerely,

Posted by: Kavi Sep 5 2003, 06:06 AM

Viren, You should be getting a few signatures today & tomorrow. The world only sits and gabs. TSP is a signatory to the UN convention on Terrorism and still the biggest terrorist state. Nothing stopped it going about its task for 20 years till 9/11 and then US reluctantly acknowledged that others too have the problem. It is citizen's movement & NGOs that will help where politicians won't move their ass. For the doubters "Remember you or some one you know could be traveling in the buses in Mumbai that have blown up or could be walking around the Gate Way on the fateful day ". So like Nike says Let's "Just Do it".

Posted by: Viren Sep 5 2003, 08:48 AM

Kavi: Please notice the date on which I said "I don't want to wait for jihadis to start blowing up cafes/pubs in Chennai/Mumbai to draft this petition" - barely a week before Mumbai blasts. It's pretty much a routine for us to ignore some terrorist incident couple thousand miles away till terror is brought to our door step. >>Kavi: It is citizen's movement & NGOs that will help where politicians won't move their ass. Absolutely right Kavi. Imagine a hundred thousand Indians spending even 5 minutes a week for signing a petition/ educating our dorky media or registering their protest on cyberspace instead of doing 'bandhs' or rasta/rail rokos? And this only the tip of the iceberg. There's two great parallel threads on BR at the moment on what one can do. I hope those threads have a take away for members to act before it fades into oblivion.

Posted by: rhytha Sep 5 2003, 12:07 PM

posted two petitions, any other petiton to sign which is against paki or realted to paki's(that covers the whole of terrorism) tongue.gif

Posted by: vasu Sep 7 2003, 12:09 AM

Hi all, the aim of this forum is to be a supplement to the BR forum or to be a parallel forum? Like we create topics not discussed on BR? i might not have worded it properly, but i hope you all get what i am trying to ask?

Posted by: rhytha Sep 9 2003, 08:13 AM

How Sick furious.gif

Posted by: Kaushal Sep 12 2003, 05:30 AM K R Sudhaman in Cancun | September 11, 2003 15:29 IST In a major victory for India and other developing countries, Chairman of WTO Ministerial, Mexican Foreign Minister Louis Ernesto Derbez, has agreed to look into all proposals on agriculture including that of the G-21 countries before formulating the final draft...

Posted by: Kaushal Sep 25 2003, 08:20 AM

url is by subscription only THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ONLINE, SEPTEMBER 25, 2003 INDIA IS POISED FOR FASTER GROWTH ECONOMISTS EXPECT NATION TO JOIN CHINA AS A POWERFUL ASIAN ENGINE By JAY SOLOMON Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL NEW DELHI -- Is India finally set to join China as a powerful new economic growth engine for Asia? Judging by the speed at which economists are ratcheting up growth estimates here, it certainly looks that way. Government officials are predicting that India's inflation-adjusted growth for the current fiscal year, which ends March 31, may "significantly exceed" New Delhi's earlier forecast of 6% growth and could approach 8%. Private investment firms concur, estimating growth of as much as 7.5% and citing the potential for even faster expansion down the road. With economies in the U.S., Europe and Latin America still wobbly, India's emergence could be one of the world's most important economic-trend stories over the next two decades. More immediately, the growth explosions in India and China, the world's two most populous nations, signal an inevitable changing of the guard in Asia. East Asia's traditional tiger economics, in countries such as South Korea, have seen their export-driven models challenged by sluggish global trade. Indians increasingly feel that their country has chosen the right balance of growing its domestic economy and its export economy at the same time. And no country, many Indians feel, is better positioned to profit from the global boom in information-technology services than their own. Foreign capital is increasingly taking notice of India's growth. International portfolio investors have poured $3.65 billion into Indian equities so far this year -- up from $763 million for all of 2002 -- helping the country's main index rise by 50% since late April. At the same time, private-equity firms, mainly from the U.S. and Europe, have injected $300 million to $500 million into Indian companies since January, according to the Indian Venture Capital Association, with the bulk of it in long-term capital commitments. Blue-chip U.S. investment houses such as Warburg Pincus, Citibank's private-equity arm and Carlyle Group are among those who have recently bought stakes in Indian companies, aiming to tap into the country's growing consumer class and its emergence as a center for software development and information-technology services. "My bet is that India will begin to outperform China within the next five years," says Rajiv Lall of Warburg Pincus in New York, whose firm has invested roughly $600 million in India since 1993. In fact, Warburg Pincus is one of the few Wall Street firms that have placed a bigger bet on India than China. Warburg is currently in discussions to purchase a major stake in closely held food concern Radhakrishna Foodland Ltd., and Mr. Lall says his firm should close a number of Indian transactions in "the near future." Positive Cyclical Factors Economists cite several cyclical factors as contributors to India's growth this year. The country is enjoying an excellent monsoon season after last year's drought, providing hundreds of millions of farmers with more cash to buy everything from cellular phones to motorcycles. Meanwhile, companies are again investing significantly in their new production facilities, after many suffered from overcapacity following an anticipated boom in the mid-1990s that never materialized. A July survey of business confidence by a leading Indian institute showed the most optimistic outlook since mid-1995. Important structural changes in the Indian economy are also driving consumption and investment patterns. Construction of everything from ports to telecommunications networks has accelerated and Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's support for a $10 billion nationwide road-construction program is expected to be a boon for cement and steel companies. Banks are reporting a 30% rise in loans to consumers and a 30%-35% increase in home mortgages, as they shift from focusing on corporate loans to the country's growing middle class, an estimated 250 million Indians. These trends are filtering through to the wider economy. Car sales, for example, jumped 26% for April to August this year compared with the same period of 2002. "There are only six cars for every thousand people in India ... We can only grow," says Jagdish Khattar, chief executive of India's largest car manufacturer, Maruti Udyog Ltd., which produces 600,000 units annually. As Indian companies reduce costs and focus on competing with foreign firms in India's increasingly open economy, their earnings are also improving. Investment banks such as Citigroup's Smith Barney are projecting earnings growth of 25% to 30% among top-tier Indian companies, as they benefit from cheaper credit and growing demand for their services and products from foreign companies. In addition to operating call-centers and back-office operations, Indian companies also are increasingly being tapped to produce high-end products such as auto components and pharmaceuticals. "In our opinion, the frontline Indian companies have never been in better shape since liberalization began in 1991," declares a September report on the India economy by Smith Barney. Despite such optimism, the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank warn that India will struggle to reach its 8% annual growth target set out in the government's current Five-Year Plan without more rigorous reforms. They point to New Delhi's yawning budget deficit, which stood at more than 10% of gross domestic product in the past fiscal year. The World Bank projects that without strong efforts by New Delhi to raise tax revenues and cut spending on subsidies and civil-service salaries, the rising debt could stifle expansion and cap annual growth at 5%. Impact of Debt Load The World Bank and IMF aren't predicting a balance-of-payments crisis for India, as the government is holding $85 billion in foreign reserves and India is running a healthy current-account surplus. But World Bank officials do say New Delhi's debt load -- owed mainly to domestic lenders -- is undercutting the government's ability to fund new infrastructure and development programs. "Interest payments are crowding out public spending," says Mark Baird, who wrote this year's World Bank report on the Indian economy. The World Bank and others are also pushing New Delhi to move more aggressively to open up the economy. Despite recent initiatives, they say India still maintains among the highest average tariff rates in the developing world. Steps to privatize state-owned companies have faced stiff resistance from labor unions and political parties. And caps on foreign investment in sectors such as retailing and the media have denied India a potentially hefty inflow of new funds. "In India, it's the sectors where the government isn't interfering that are thriving," says Rishi Sahai, a principal founder of the Indian Venture Capital Association. Write to Jay Solomon at Updated September 25, 2003

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Sep 25 2003, 03:37 PM pakee.gif

Posted by: vishal Sep 28 2003, 03:58 AM

August 16th, 2018 is India Day hi Krishna , Do u have any research done behind the scene. I am interested to know that or you are some astrologer? biggrin.gif Anyway, that 2018 sounds too far....i guess make it 2016 biggrin.gif Graduate toVishal2003: Welcome to the forum. Please change your username/handle to something that sounds real and does not have numbers or punctuations, or is an abbreviation. -Admin

Posted by: acharya Oct 1 2003, 04:59 PM

Posted by: O Vijay Oct 1 2003, 06:43 PM

Acharya, I got following e-mails regarding the Orissa meteorite strike.

(1) METEORITE WRECKS HOUSES IN INDIA BBC News Online, 28 Sept. 2003 At least 20 people are reported to have been injured after a meteorite crashed to Earth in eastern India. Reports say hundreds of people in the state of Orissa panicked when the fireball streamed across the sky. Burning fragments were said to have fallen over a wide area, destroying several houses. An official in Orissa said the authorities were assessing the damage and trying to recover what was left of the meteor. Reports from Orissa said windows rattled as the meteor passed overhead. "It was all there for just a few seconds but it was like daylight everywhere," one resident said. Rarity Experts estimate about 100 tons of extraterrestrial dust grains fall to earth each day. Occasionally, a dark pebble or fist-size object will rain down, with boulder-sized objects or bigger being a historical rarity. The only recorded fatality from a meteor was an Egyptian dog that had the bad luck to be in the wrong place at the wrong time in 1911. Seven decades later, scientists recognised the dog had been struck by a meteorite from Mars. Copyright 2003, BBC ============= (2) METEOR HITS IN EASTERN INDIA The Age, 28 Sept 2003 Hundreds of people fled their homes when a meteor struck their village in eastern India, injuring three people and destroying two houses, a state minister says. The fireball hit the village of Sudusudia in Orissa state, said BB Harichandan, the state revenue minister. "One person has sustained burn injuries and two houses have been burned down. The injured has been hospitalised," the minister said. Another two were hospitalised after falling unconscious, apparently from shock, local newspaper Dharitri reported. "The light was so bright that for a few seconds it appeared to be daylight," said Sanatan Sahu, a villager. Meteors, pulled by gravity toward earth, usually burn out in the planet's atmosphere and disintegrate before making an impact. "Though incidents of this kind are a rare phenomenon in this region, such celestial occurrences are common in space," said J Kar of the Pathani Samanta Planetarium in the state capital Bhubaneshwar. ©2003 AAP ========== (3) METEORITE STRIKES INDIAN VILLAGE CNN, 28 Sept. 2003 BHUBANESWAR, India -- Two people have been injured and several homes badly damaged by a suspected meteorite crashing into a village in eastern India, reports said Sunday. The fiery object crashed to earth shortly after sunset Saturday in the coastal state of Orissa, the Press Trust of India reported. Witnesses reported a bright fireball briefly lighting up the night sky and causing panic among local residents, the PTI report said. Reports from several districts described an ear spitting noise that shattered several windows as the object sped overhead. At least one part of the fireball came down in a village in Mayurbhanj district, setting several homes alight and lightly injuring at least two people. The report said other parts of the suspected meteorite may have crashed into another village, also setting at least one thatched house ablaze. Officials in the area have been asked to collect any remaining samples of the object for scientific analysis. The PTI quoted local meteorological and space experts as saying the object was most likely a meteor. Hundreds of small objects strike the Earth's atmosphere every day, creating what are commonly known as shooting stars or, more properly, meteors. However, all but a few burn up or explode well before they hit the ground as a result of the friction caused by entering the Earth's atmosphere at speeds in excess of 10,000 kilometers an hour. Those few rocks that do survive the fiery journey are known as meteorites. Copyright 2003, CNN ======== =========== (4) METEOR CAUSES PANIC IN ORISSA The Tribune of India, 27 Sept. 2003 Bhubaneswar, September 27 Night turned into day for a few seconds as a huge ball of fire, believed to be a meteor, streaked across the sky in coastal Orissa causing panic among the people today. Official sources, admitting the occurrence of the phenomenon, said collectors of all districts where the fireball was sighted had been asked to report to the government about it. Remnants of the fireball had landed in a village under the Kaptipada police station in Mayurbhanj district starting a fire there, Revenue minister Biswabhushan Harichandan said quoting official reports. We have asked the collectors to report about the matter, he said. Panic-stricken people in at least 11 Orissa districts saw the fireball streak across the sky as the darkness was completely dispelled for a few seconds at around 6.30 pm. Reports from Kendrapara, Jagatsinghpur, Jajpur and Mayurbhanj districts said the phenomenon was accompanied by ear-splitting noise which even shattered the doors and windows. The other districts which reported the sighting were Cuttack, Puri, Khurda, Nayagarh, Angul, Bhadrak and Balasore. People on the streets of the capital city here saw the flash of light for a second or two but there was no noise. Meteological Department sources said it could be a meteor which had landed somewhere in the state. Dr Prahallad Chandra Nayak, former director of the Pathani Samanta Planetarium here, also agreed saying that it was a shooting star. A report from Baripada said people saw two fireballs landing in Sudsudia village under the Kaptipada police station setting ablaze a thatched house. Two women received injuries following the incident while another person present nearby fell unconscious. They were being treated at the local hospital. The authorities were investigating reports that remnants of the meteor had landed in Jagatsinghpur district. A report from Kendrapara said three persons, including a woman, from different villages in the district had been admitted into the district headquarter hospital after falling unconscious as they witnessed the rare occurrence. PTI
(1) METEOR DAZZLES INDIANS BBC News Online, 29 Sept. 2003 Officials investigating a meteorite that crashed in eastern India say it was part of the most spectacular meteor shower in the country's recent history. Flaming debris from the space rock lit up the sky in Orissa state on Saturday night, and sent villagers running after its burning fragments set fire to their houses. "I have never seen a meteor covering such a large area with a huge fireball and roaring sound," said Basant Kumar Mohanty, senior director of the Geological Survey of India. According to state authorities, two large fragments of the meteorite, weighing roughly five kilograms each, have been recovered. Shock Meanwhile, locals in Orissa have been describing what they saw. "I first mistook it for... a crashing aircraft, when I saw the huge fireball with so much bright light," said Bandita Das, a housewife. "For about 10 seconds, the evening on Saturday got lighted up. I panicked and took my kids inside the house." Bishwa Bhushan Harichandan, a minister in Orissa's state government, told the BBC the fireball was seen by people in "seven to eight districts, covering about 14,000 to 15,000 square kilometres". He said only three people had been injured as a result of the meteorite falling to earth. Earlier reports said at least 20 people had been hurt. An old man receiving treatment in hospital is also reported to have died of shock on seeing the meteor. The people of Orissa are familiar with cyclones and floods, and according to correspondents, they feel Saturday's meteor shower has added a new threat to their lives. Scientists say, however, the risk of being killed by a falling meteorite is not worth worrying about. Copyright 2003, BBC =============== (2) GSI TEAM FINDS FRAGMENTS OF METEORITE IN COASTAL ORISSA Hindustan Times, 29 Sept. 2003,000900030010.htm Press Trust of India Bhubaneswar, September 29 A team of the Geologicial Survey of India (GSI) has stumbled upon certain fragments of the meteorite that dazzled the sky in coastal Orissa on Saturday night, official sources said. The team, which visited the Sudusudia village in Mayurbhanj district, had reported about the findings which resembled metallic flakes. Villagers had witnessed the fireball landing on a thatched house which was completely burnt. District authorities had earlier said that though the house had been gutted, no remnants of the meteorite had been found. The GSI team was also scheduled to visit some places of Balasore and Bhadrak districts in search of the debris. Officials had reported finding of two unusual-looking rocks in different villages of Mahakalapada block on Sunday. A GSI team had also gone there to examine the rocks, the sources said. In a rare occurrence, the meteorite streaked across the night sky dispelling the darkness for a few seconds. People in 11 Orissa districts and two districts of West Bengal had reported to have seen the spectacle. Copyright 2003, Hindustan Times ========== LETTERS =========== (3) METEORITE FALL IN INDIA Vishnu Reddy Dear Sir, Just want to add that several pieces of the suspected meteorite have been recovered by a team from the Physical Research Laboratory for study. The team had to rush in before the Geological Survey of India could claim the meteorites. We have a strange British era rule here in India that everything that falls from the sky belongs to the GSI. But unfortunately GSI doesn't have any experts or interest in meteorites and the collection is not even open to Indian researchers! So the scientists rush to the fall site before GSI does and pick the meteorites. Clear skies Vishnu Reddy Spaceguard India ============== (4) ORISSA METEORITE STRIKE/ATEN CLUSTER? Andy Smith Hello Benny and CCNet, We appreciate your timely attention to the Orissa impact (CCNet 78/2003, today). We exercised our little global emergency technical network, over the weekend, and are getting additional details which we will send to you, as well as updates on Vitimsky. These two events happened about a year apart (25 September 2002 and 27 September 2003) and we think it prudent to look for possible connections. High on our list of possibilities is some sort of Aten cluster and we want to ask for inputs, from the larger telescopes, on anything else that may be close to us, at this time. Because they are likely to be very small (mag. 30 range), it may be hard to find them. Our immediate concern is related to next September. We are very fortunate to have an excellent NEO study group in India and they are helping a lot with new information on Orissa. They have an excellent web site (Spaceguard India), which is the result of an impressive global team effort. Also, there are a number of terrific groups studying the Vitimsky site, in Siberia. Hopefully, we will be able to get a lot of interesting information to the CCNet and there should be a major input, at the Planetary Defense Conference, next year. We are also hoping that our media and society friends (Space.Com, Planetary Society, etc.) and the NASA NEO sites will feature these important events, soon. The Aten Cluster is just one possible explanation for these matching events, we invite other theories and would like to add them to our study list. Cheers Andy Smith
(1) GEOLOGICAL TEAM FINDS PARTS OF METEORITE Newindpress, 30 Sept. 2003 BHUBANESWAR: A two-member team from the Geological Survey of India (GSI) has located what could be called `parts' of the meteor in Kaptipada block of Mayurbhanj. The remnants, according to Director, GSI B.K. Mohanty, resemble slags and are dark in colour. However, these fragments are small in size and also light in weight. He said these parts of the meteor were retrieved from around the gutted hut in Kaptipada. These fragments were probably responsible for the fire in the thatched house, he said. However, there could still be a bigger remnant of the meteor from which the smaller ones emanated, Mohanty said adding, the team was looking for it. The main portion could be lying buried somewhere. Since a meteor travels at a tremendous speed after entering the Earth's atmosphere, any bigger remnant would pierce into the latter's surface. However, the team has now been instructed to visit Balasore and Bhadrak to find if any remnant has landed there. The team would return to Bhubaneswar on Tuesday with the fragments. On Monday, a second GSI team was sent to Mahakalpara block under Kendrapara district where a 6 kg stone-like object was found by villagers in Suniti.

Posted by: kaushik Oct 1 2003, 10:22 PM

Hello All, Good to see this forum. Hope this can serve as a good complement to the BR forums, especially now that BR only allows a very narrow range of topics to be discussed. In time, I am sure India-Forum can evolve its own characteristics and distinct nature. I agree with Kaushal that the discussions must be kept civil and above all very informative. All the best... thumbup.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 2 2003, 01:54 PM

user posted image somebody asked for condom smilie. this is a cool smiley site.. Its got this user posted image

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 2 2003, 10:06 PM

QUOTE(kaushik @ Oct 2 2003, 10:52 AM)
Hello All, Good to see this forum. Hope this can serve as a good complement to the BR forums, especially now that BR only allows a very narrow range of topics to be discussed. In time, I am sure India-Forum can evolve its own characteristics and distinct nature. I agree with Kaushal that the discussions must be kept civil and above all very informative. All the best... :thumbsup
After a 3/4 days I looged on to a few forums .. and am left aghast, as to what things have come to .... Secularites is turning out to be worse than AIDS (21st Century) --- Witch Craft ( Stone Age ) .. and BR is surpassing them all.... Fanne Bhai .. Perigrine ... Our LSE /OIL expert has been kicked out other casualities are GGanesh .. Subhendu( ?? Did he get the tag of "Bigoted" ) ...I am sure many more ...basically call Bangladeshi terrorirst -- "vermin" and you are out :);f=16;t=000255 PLEASE DONT CONVERT BR TO CHURCH ... SO THAT ANBODY WHO CRITICISES IT GETS TAGGED AC/DC ..:) Best Of Luck to this forum ... PS: 'JAI SECULAR INDIA" ... such slogans will never make us Secular beliver me .. I believe SECULARISM is much more than all that... .

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 3 2003, 10:41 AM

Hi, May be some ppl will like this URL .. The Art Of Controversy translated 1896 by T. Bailey Saunders, M.A. London: Swan Sonnenschein & Co., Lim. New York: Macmillan & Co., Lim. ------- Will appreciate if similar urls are posted somewhere ... Thanks.

Posted by: Krishna Oct 3 2003, 11:02 AM

Admin Note: Gentleman, BR is the way Mods / owners over there want it to be. For us the only concern should be that BR works for the same cause as we do. So please watch what you say and refrain from any personal attacks on anyone (From BR) not here to defend himself. My humble request: Please refrain from intra-group bashing. Thanks In Advance. Please carry on!

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 3 2003, 11:11 AM

> For us the only concern should be that BR works for the same cause as we do.. Perfectly fine sentiments , wish similar courtsey & understanding was show there to ppl. Anyways. Regards PS: Can you change my handle from vanmanush to bhootnath ? Thanks for efforts..

Posted by: Krishna Oct 3 2003, 11:22 AM

QUOTE(vanmanush @ Oct 3 2003, 01:11 PM)
PS: Can you change my handle from vanmanush to bhootnath ? Thanks for efforts..
AFAIK, one cannot change his handle, once registered. (Other Admins: Please correct me if wrong.) Please re-register with 'bhootnath.' And this id can be disabled later.

Posted by: Krishna Oct 3 2003, 01:52 PM

QUOTE(tovishal2003 @ Sep 28 2003, 05:58 AM)
August 16th, 2018 is India Day hi Krishna , Do u have any research done behind the scene. I am interested to know that or you are some astrologer? biggrin.gif Anyway, that 2018 sounds too far....i guess make it 2016 biggrin.gif Graduate
Vishal, About my signature.......I'm waiting for Jaspreet to make some comments. Once he does that all your questions would be answered. Dhairya...Vats....Dhairya! B)

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 4 2003, 12:35 AM

Hi Rytha, First of all a BIG Thanks for providing space/infrastructure/time for this forum ( this goes for all the great posters....too ) .. Secondly, no I am no flame baiter, my initial posts were more out of frustation , reasons are quite obvious ( atleast I thought so :) ) So if possible , pls change the handle. Regards PS: What does "rytha" means ? With Maharathis like Kaushal /Acharya / HH ... success of this forum is doubtless.

Posted by: O Vijay Oct 8 2003, 09:03 AM

I stumbled across this site. Nice site.

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Oct 8 2003, 04:04 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen, I would soon be leaving for a trip to Bharata. I noticed there are some threads that have posts requiring response from me. Unfortunately I do not have too much time for that prior to my departure, and net at my parents home in India is slow. So if those threads are there when I return I will to reply to them. bye for now

Posted by: Krishna Oct 8 2003, 04:31 PM

Haumaji, India ka yaad dila diya aapne........hai hai hai.........kya din they woh!! sad.gif drool.gif sad.gif Anyway, Have a nice/safe trip, take care and enjoy. And please convey our best regards, from all NRIs here, to your parents and friends back home. Tell 'em how much we'll love India! Someone kick me outta here before I get all sentimental.... sad.gif God Bless & Jai Hind!

Posted by: Krishna Oct 8 2003, 04:37 PM

BTW, I would be waiting to hear from you, and other History gurus in the 'Pre-modern Warfare:India And Elsewhere' thread.

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 14 2003, 10:21 AM

Italics are mine for hindi translations.. The importance of charm Karan Thapar It was a casual conversation with the Prime Minister but it made me realise the importance of charm. Whatever else he may be, he’s a very charming man. Sadly, that’s not a quality I can readily detect in the rest of my countrymen. Most of us mistake it for weakness. Instead we cultivate the gruff exterior. Mr Vajpayee and I met in the middle of the imposing Ashoka Hall of Rashtrapati Bhawan. I was standing near the entrance chatting with James Lyngdoh and Ajay Vikram Singh. The Prime Minister entered from the other side and started to slowly walk across. We stood and watched. When he was some 20 feet away I thought I saw him gesturing at me. He used his eyes and his smile to do so. It was a knowing look – in part a conspiratorial nod and wink but also an ah-there-you-are act of detection. I moved forward. But as soon as I did, the PM looked away, leaving me feeling very foolish. Had I made a mistake? Perhaps. So I returned to the group I had just left. They smiled generously to put me at my ease. “Arre kya hua?” What happened? It was Mr Vajpayee. He was looking straight at me and smiling. His eyes were twinkling. So this time I scampered across. I felt as if I was behaving like a schoolboy. I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone else thought so too. “Aap aare the phir ruk gaye. Kya hua?” You came forward and then stopped. What happened? The PM grasped my proffered hand in both of his and held on to it. That’s how we stood for the duration of our conversation. “Mein sharma gaya.” I was embarrassed. I had spoken before I realised what I was saying. I wanted to withdraw my words but it was too late. Of course, it was the truth but it sounded gauche. “Aaah,” the PM replied, his eyes growing bigger and brighter. “To sharmate bhi ho!” Honestly, I did not know what to say. The PM realised this and seemed to enjoy my predicament. He waited for me to speak. Meanwhile his smile got bigger. “My mother” I blurted out “is a great admirer of yours”. “To bete mein kya kammi rahegi?” Will the son catch up with her mom ? By now the smile had covered his full face. He knew he was being mischievous but he was enjoying every second of it. For my part I felt more foolish than ever before. Alas, that also meant I continued to speak without thinking. “When Mummy reads something I’ve written about you she usually calls me a bloody fool.” I knew at once I was inviting another riposte and the PM was not slow to grasp the bait I offered. This time he laughed as he spoke. “Ma galat nahin!” Mom is not wrong. I must have blushed deeply because he raised his left hand to my shoulder whilst still holding on to my mine with his right. It was meant to be avuncular and that’s certainly how it felt. “Mein aapko dekhta rehta hoon.” I keep and eye on you. He said no more but I felt his eyes said the rest. He rolled them upwards and shook his head from side to side. I interpreted this as a sign of appreciation. Or was it a gentle dismissal? Either way it was a friendly gesture. Our little chat couldn’t have lasted more than two minutes. Maybe less. But the impression it left behind was indelible. I am and remain a critic of Mr Vajpayee but his charm is irresistible. No one – not even his most ferocious enemies – could deny that. But why are the rest of us so ‘un-charming’? Do we not realise how much difference a little polite flattery, a gentle joke, a pleasant aside can make? Maybe we are not equally witty, and no doubt only a few are blessed with the presence of mind to think of clever things to say, but all it requires to be charming is to be nice and to let it show. Surely, that’s not so difficult? I grant that it’s easier to be charming when one is powerful and important. In the rest of us, that could be mistaken for grovelling. But then why are those who exercise influence and authority so often awkward and abrupt? Are they rude or indifferent? Or do they simply not know better? I’m sure each of you has your own answer to this question. But let me leave you with mine. Most of us don’t know how to be charming – and very few of us realise what an enormous difference it can make – because few people, if any, have been charming to us. We treat others as we have been treated in turn. That’s the real problem.

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Oct 14 2003, 07:27 PM

QUOTE(Krishna @ Oct 9 2003, 05:01 AM)
India ka yaad dila diya aapne........hai hai hai.........kya din
Thanks Krishna. It is indeed nice to be in the warm lands of bhArata. BTW I saw a Hindi movie on the flight it was shocking! I hope the Hindi movies you all talk about in the movie forum are not of that order!! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Kaushal Oct 15 2003, 05:31 AM

Karan Thapar is not one of my favorite journalists, but there is some truth in what he says. Indians could do with some extra helpings of charm. Charm is certainly not one of the strong points of our desi bhais (generalization alert !)

Posted by: Krishna Oct 15 2003, 11:54 AM

QUOTE(Hauma Hamiddha @ Oct 14 2003, 09:27 PM)
BTW I saw a Hindi movie on the flight it was shocking! I hope the Hindi movies you all talk about in the movie forum are not of that order!! biggrin.gif
No no no Haumaji, We don't talk, we don't watch, we don't hear.......neither do we think about any of those type movies! biggrin.gif wink.gif tongue.gif devilsmiley.gif

Posted by: Krishna Oct 15 2003, 11:56 AM

BTW. A personal question, if you don't mind. Are you a guy or a gal? (things getting very confusing these just wanted to make sure.)

Posted by: Viren Oct 15 2003, 12:31 PM

QUOTE(Krishna @ Oct 15 2003, 02:56 PM)
BTW. A personal question, if you don't mind. Are you a guy or a gal? (things getting very confusing these just wanted to make sure.)
Krishna-ji: I think we need a gender selection on our registration page wink.gif Rhytha: Drop me a line please. - will delete later.

Posted by: Krishna Oct 15 2003, 01:09 PM

Viren, not a bad idea. I say, if someone doesn't clarify which sect they belong to they should be made to buy everyone a round of beer! cheers.gif

Posted by: Viren Oct 15 2003, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(Krishna @ Oct 15 2003, 04:09 PM)
Viren, not a bad idea. I say, if someone doesn't clarify which sect they belong to they should be made to buy everyone a round of beer! cheers.gif
Krishan: I was joking onlee. What next, we start asking for zip codes, age? I think we should respect the privacy. Members are always welcome to use email to discuss 'non-public' issues.

Posted by: k.ram Oct 16 2003, 08:48 AM

thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif INTERNET CENSORSHIP IN INDIA : > Blocking of Yahoo groups continues > Posted below are URL's to most news reports about a > draconian move by > the Indian state to specifically block a specific > online news group > on yahoo. The targeted Group's name on Yahoo is: > kynhun Bri U > Hynniewtrep. URL: > Blocking of a near invisible web site ordered by > Indian agencies in > the name off national security, is reprehensible > enough, but the > blocking of an entire domain, ( is > criminal. It > seems that when Yahoo refused to comply with request > from Indian > authorities to delete the 'kynhun' yahoo group in > question, and the > consequence was that the entire > domain has become > inaccessible to India based users for the last 4 > days or so. There > are literally thousands of yahoo groups sites > related to and/or based > in India (if you do search on yahoogroups with the > term India, it > gives you figure of 12503). > This is not the first time the Indian government has > tried to block > web sites, during the Kargil war of 1999, the web > site of the > prominent Pakistan daily was blocked, this was very > vigorously fought > by many in the media in India and some activists > abroad. In 1998 a > law suit was filed by online activist Arun Mehta to > challenge other > moves by the Indian state to block some commercial > websites. > This current move to block internet content for > thousands off users, > is a grave violation of freedom of _expression and > sets a very > dangerous precedent of censorship and control of the > internet in > India. Human rights groups in India, South Asia and > around the world > need to take note and express concern. > Addresses of the officials and bodies to whom people > may write to > protest or seeking their intervention re this latest > instance of > Internet censorship in India: > Minister (Communications & Information Technology & > Disinvestment) > Ist Floor,Electronics Niketan, > Lodhi Road,New Delhi > Email : > Shri Ravi Shankar Prasad > (Minister of Information and Broadcasting) > E-Mail: > Phone: (91) 23384340, 23384782 Fax : (91) 23782118 > Computer Emergency Response Team (CERT-In) > > India's Department of Telecom > > > The Internet Service Providers Association of India > (ISPAI) > > Yahoo! India Web Services Ltd; > 386, Veer Savarkar Marg > Opp. Siddhivinayak Temple > Mumbai 400025 > Phone: +91-22-56622222 > Fax: +91-22-56622244 > Delhi Office: > Yahoo! India Web Services Ltd; > Ground Floor, First India Place, > Mehrauli-Gurgaon Road > Gurgaon [Haryana]- 122002 > Phone: +91-0124-5061888/9 (from Delhi > 95124-5061888/9) > Fax: +91-0124-2560057 >

Posted by: Viren Oct 16 2003, 11:21 AM

k.ram: I think that report on yahoogroups being banned in India is a bit old or not too accurate. I've been a member of yahoogroup related to some IT business and venture capitalists in India for a while and have not experienced any ban (atleast not that felt that ban) Also, just this morning, I received an invite by another Indian based yahoogroup.

Posted by: Viren Oct 16 2003, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Oct 16 2003, 04:34 PM)
Viren, Can you access yahoo groups through web interface? I heard, that one can only receive emails from yahoo groups.
Yes. This I'm a member of : (you need to be a member to get access to contents there) There's a another that I just posted using web interface to test it out. And this yahoo group had a url of http://in.something......

Posted by: vishal Oct 17 2003, 01:25 PM

QUOTE(Krishna @ Oct 4 2003, 02:22 AM)
Vishal, About my signature.......I'm waiting for Jaspreet to make some comments. Once he does that all your questions would be answered. Dhairya...Vats....Dhairya! B)
smile.gif ok prabhu rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Pathmarajah Oct 23 2003, 11:07 AM

World's First Malay/Indonesian Hindu Webpage. On this great day of Tivali let me announce the world's first website dedicated to, and expounding the Saivite Hindu Religion in the Malay/ Indonesian language that reaches out to Malaysia, Indonesia, Brunei, Southern Thailand, Southern Mindanao (Phillipines) and Singapore, a total of nearly 245 million people. This is the link: This is the main page: Hinduism is going global!!! (another 168 languages to discover Hinduism in their own language-culture).

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 16 2003, 06:30 PM pakee.gif Cheers

Posted by: Krishna Nov 16 2003, 11:43 PM

Peregrine, On a serious note, these pakis are getting a heart-attack nowadays as soon as they here the word India / Indians. Just note the tone in that letter, javed mian's sh!tt scared! biggrin.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: rhytha Nov 17 2003, 12:44 AM

QUOTE(Peregrine @ Nov 17 2003, 07:00 AM) pakee.gif Cheers
Hope india-forums too becomes as RAW infested as BR tongue.gif biggrin.gif pakee.gif :f*(k

Posted by: vishal Nov 17 2003, 10:59 AM

I am RAW agent consultant. I provide consultancy services to all RAW agents near slumabad area. B) biggrin.gif Krishna, b 0 2 k f u 0 k 1 (plz use endocing table EZX0 in row 3 column 4) ........................ reply as soon as possible clap.gif clap.gif clap.gif

Posted by: Viren Dec 11 2003, 01:10 PM

Bring out the 'Freedom' Fries.

A French education commission has recommended a ban on "conspicuous" religious signs in schools, including the Islamic veil and Sikh turban.
Too much wine and cheese I trust is taking its toll.

Posted by: Pathmarajah Dec 14 2003, 03:30 AM

World's first Arabic Hindu Webpage Folks, I am pleased to announce the world's first website expounding basic Hindu beliefs and practices in the Arabic Language. With this I am hoping to reach out to the one billion muslims in 54 Islamic countries. The Balinese language page is up too. As these nations grapple with medievalism, terror, clash of cultures and demands of the 21st century, these teachings will induce comparative studies, discussion and a better understanding of the Hindu religion and eastern thought. It is my vision that in this decade, whole Islamic societies and nations will move away en masse from the current medieval based version of Islam to one that can be described as Neo Islamic, or Muslim NewAgers. There Hindu teachings will contribute to that process. Just view it even if you dont understand, but know for certain that we are unleashing an international revolution. Here is the link: Here is the link to the Balinese Language page: Here is the homepage: Compare the English rendition at: to the write up of the Balinese Hindu Religion at: It will propel discussions and debates in Balinese circles on similarities and differences with the mother religion. Enjoy the photos. PCs, Imac System X, Safari or Icab users will have no problems in viewing. Go to Character Set and select Unicode ITF-8. Imac System 8 or 9 users have to install Language Kit (in the system install disk) before viewing. Please email me if any problems in viewing. Pass the information to your muslim and balinese friends. Hinduism is now global!!! Call me 'the Hindu evangelist'!! smile.gif

Posted by: vishal Dec 14 2003, 08:33 AM

Gandhi was fraud or was made national hero for political gains? ohmy.gif Gandhi as a Husband -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- At attempt at studying Gandhi as a husband will give valuable insight into the character of Gandhi. It should not be construed as an attempt to character assassinate Gandhi but rather an intellectual exercise to help us gain insight into the persona of Gandhi. Gandhi was married at the age of 13 to Kasturba in 1882. Gandhi was very strict with his wife and there were many quarrels. Gandhi had a lot of rules for his wife to follow. One of them was that she should not under any circumstances leave the house without telling him first. Once when Gandhi's mother had asked Kasturba to accompany her to the market she complied, when she returned home she received a severe berating from Gandhi. But she took it calmly and replied "If I wanted to obey you, I would have to disobey your Mother. Is your Mother or you superior?" Gandhi claimed this was his first experience with non-violence. He claimed his first teacher of non-violence was his wife. Despite being married Gandhi used to indulge in many immoral activities during his childhood. He would drink, eat beef and also visited prostitutes(it is believed that Gandhi came away without 'doing anything'). Gandhi needed money for his activities and thus would steal from his father. Kasturba came to know about Gandhi's activities. But this did not stop Gandhi from continuing with his activities. Finally it was after Gandhi's father died, it had a sobering effect on him and he finally abstained from such debasing activities. Gandhi's father's death had a sobering effect on him, but his wife's pleading and cajoling all fell on deaf ears. Gandhi would make Kasturba clean other people's toilets(South Africa and at Sabramathi) saying that this would inculcate the spirit of sacrifice in her. Gandhi also made her sleep with scavengers and in horrid conditions to develop a sense of humility. Kasturba had to endure a lot of suffering as she was not used to such activities being born in a rich merchant class family. Gandhi also forced his views on her in upbringing of the children. From the above incidents it is obvious that Gandhi was absolutely insensitive to the feelings of Kasturba. Why did he force her to clean other people's toilets? Was it not very humiliating and demeaning to clean another person's toilet? How insensitive can a human be? And why was Gandhi so particular that Kasturba should clean other people's toilets, sleep alongside beggars and scavengers etc., while he himself enjoyed a good life, with daily oil massages, home cooked food at his ashramam etc. Perhaps he forced her to these activities so he could project to the public how he was doing so much for the people, how even his rich wife was not spared but had to serve the poor? ------------------------------------------------------ there are so much more points at, I have heard about that massage from girls thing from mouth of Bal thackare.But i didn't believed it much.Is this the reason CONGRESS fears from Shiv-sena and BJP?... B) humm...there are so many myths around gandhi that people don't know... when BJP will come out and declare this b!t#h as a apportunist and not hero? B) Congress is trying to declare WHOLE(as*) gandhi family as great people along with sonia.This seems tobe election issue for them.they are going for "vote for sonia GANDHI"....damn this congress will screw this nation for bloody family ambitions. blink.gif

Posted by: Mudy Dec 15 2003, 07:30 PM

Which Indian King disguises during night and visit odd house, to understand his subject’s problem?

Posted by: Gill Dec 16 2003, 02:15 PM

ChandraGupt? Ashok? Yuddishtar? Does anyone in US have amar chitr katha comic books? please email me at TKS

Posted by: Viren Dec 16 2003, 03:51 PM

Gill: Check this

Posted by: Gus Dec 16 2003, 04:02 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Dec 16 2003, 08:00 AM)
Which Indian King disguises during night and visit odd house, to understand his subject’s problem?
actually many kings used to do that smile.gif Kalki's (R.Krishnamurthi) book "Sivakamiyin Sapatham" on the Pulikeshi invasion on Kanchi and the revenge by the Pallavas has accounts of how Mahendra pallava was a master of disguise.

Posted by: Mudy Dec 16 2003, 04:21 PM

Why I want to know? People like Saddam, Sonia, Assad, King Saud, North Korean King, Mushy etc, and these people have no clue about public feeling and world reaction, people surrounding them tries to please bosses and end up giving misinformation. End result, these disillusioned bosses start thinking super human and end up in spider hole. Saddam could have avoided whole episode my improving people life or taking political asylum when offered, but humiliating surrender was pathetic.

Posted by: Gill Dec 16 2003, 04:42 PM

Vishu, Thanks. But I was asking all you guys, do anyone of you guys have these comics? I need them. I need to scan these and distribute the CDs to children at the Hindu Center. Cant afford to have 100 copies hahha well not till my biz picks up. I did the same at BRF. People sent me money all the way from UK in return they got tapes of Republic Day Parade. I mailed them, but never cashed the checks hahahah. To all those guys who helped the children in NY Thanks. I need to do it again, but with a twist. I can issue an address in India for members who are in India. In US I can arrange it. Please understand, do not go out and buy these things, just look in your closets. Email me if you can help. PS: Need Superman to meet Hanumanji

Posted by: Gill Dec 16 2003, 04:52 PM

How many forum members here have children? I am married yet not children. I need members to identify if they have off springs. This is related to the thread "Christava". After response to this topic I will proceed. I realized that this forum can have a positive impact in India. Lets see, this is a test. Please contribute if you choose to. B)

Posted by: Gill Dec 16 2003, 09:21 PM

Thanks Krishan, I ask this question because how many dads moms among us will encourage our sons and daughters to do social services for our community? How will we feel when they will tell us, they are going to remote places of India for such work? Will we encourage them or be blinded by maya? I know I for one will be scared and will try to talk them out of it, being honest. How about you guys? Will you encourage them for services among being doctors, engineers, software guys etc? Be honest... I was watching some movie and they had a disbaled person applying for army, the doctor sees he has a missing leg, and says he cant join, the man cries and says he can do what a person with two legs can do, to give him a chance...the army doc tells him, joining the army and killing the enemy is not the only way to do your country a service, there are plenty many of us are those others? sad.gif

Posted by: Mudy Dec 16 2003, 09:45 PM

India-forum is part of our service to this great cause. Donatation to IDRF is not a bad idea. Don't tranfer money through hawala. Don't nag with rickshaw wala for Re1 or Re2 when you are visiting homeland with "NRI" tag attached. That can help one family. Donate books to schools and college. Educate your household help. Even small contribution can make difference. Graduate

Posted by: Gill Dec 16 2003, 09:57 PM

There you go Mr. Mudy. Don't nag with rickshaw wala for Re1 or Re2 when you are visiting homeland with "NRI" tag attached. Oh my god Mr. Mudy, do you know my wife's aunt? hahahahah This lady is richhhhhhhhhhh living in a hi-fi area of New Jersey. There refrigerator is as big as a dwelling of a Indian in Dadar! But this lady is so crap, my wife tells me how she argued with a rickshaw driver for one hour over the fare. It was Rs.5 he demanded, and she wanted to pay only Rs.3. My wife felt sorry for this frail man who was in his 50s or so. She came into the arguement and asked her aunt to go inside. She apologized to the man [I love her for that] gave him Rs.5 and asked him to take another Rs.50. The man according to her was so angry he called her beti and said no Rs.5 was his earning. My wife insisted and he finally took it. Mr. Mudy we Indians [NRIs] dont like such people as well. They visit India, complain about it, oh this, oh that, and then leave. I know how it feels. As Govinda said [hahah movie actor] we tend to adopt western habits, how come we never adopt their habit of ruling the world and be a power? This Indian [NRI] does! PS: Who came up with this term NRI? My wife is US citizen so is she an NRI too? I carry Indian passport but lived in India only for one year. Havent seen it since I was 11 yrs old, what am I considered? hahahahahaha B)

Posted by: Viren Dec 17 2003, 12:58 PM

there are plenty many of us are those others
Gill...starting to post here at India-Forum would count as one IMHO biggrin.gif
I carry Indian passport but lived in India only for one year
Any Indian citizen (passport holder) who's lived for contigious 12(?) months outside India is a NRI technically. Doesn't matter if you are student, employee..

Posted by: vishal Dec 17 2003, 01:58 PM

QUOTE(Gill @ Dec 17 2003, 05:12 AM)
Vishu, Thanks. ................. if you can help. PS: Need Superman to meet Hanumanji
Gill, i think Hanumanji is still on earth.If i remember it right then i saw it in serial on DD national(when i was nanha-munha 11 years old laugh.gif ) that Shri Ram ordered Hanumanji to stay in mrutyu-loka(earth) to help and provide security to devotees of Shri.Ram. ( maybe thats why he is called Sankat-mochan Hanumaan???) So, try finding him near you.Now, i don't know if he is invisible or in some form of energy on earth. smile.gif want to confirm : is this story correct?

Posted by: kittureddy Dec 17 2003, 05:34 PM

Please read my book on History. The name of the book is History of India - a new approach. I shall be grateful if you could give me your views on the book. The book is available from Standard Publishers India in New Delhi. The email address is as follows: The telephone numbers are 01125415043. Kittu Reddy

Posted by: Sunder Dec 17 2003, 07:18 PM

QUOTE(kittureddy @ Dec 18 2003, 06:04 AM)
Please read my book on History. The name of the book is History of India - a new approach. I shall be grateful if you could give me your views on the book. The book is available from Standard Publishers India in New Delhi. The email address is as follows: The telephone numbers are 01125415043. Kittu Reddy
Thank you Professor Reddy. It would be a pleasure to read the book. Do you have other online articles or thoughts that reflect more on Sri Aurobindo? Do you write for ? I just browsed the net for additional review, and found one from Shri Francois Gautier

Posted by: Gill Dec 17 2003, 10:19 PM

Mr. kittu, how can i obtain ur book in US? Thnks

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Dec 18 2003, 12:19 AM

I did not have the chance to read Shri Reddy's book in detail but glanced through it while in India this time. Good points: - Begins with the Vedas and Upanishads as a true Indian history ought to. -Does not recycle the same secularist stuff, surprisingly balanced description of the Islamic depredation. However, I felt that the treatment of South Indian kingdoms like the Andhras, Pallavas and the Cholas as well as the Shungas and the like was rather cursory. However, the author does point out that it is a different approach entirely from traditional history and may be justified in his style of treatment.

Posted by: k.ram Dec 18 2003, 09:17 PM

I am not sure where else to post this.. here it goes... Flush.gif -------------------- Challenging the Foreign Exchange of Hate SAMAR Fall/Winter 2003 The Campaign To Stop Funding Hate Documents the Hindutva Money Trail By Angana Chatterji This piece originally appeared in Samar 16: Fall/Winter, 2003 Aghast at the brutalization of minorities in the March 2002 riots, a group of citizens responded by founding The Campaign To Stop Funding Hate. The members of the campaign are an independent and diverse group of Indian and Indo-American professionals in the United States who seek to educate Indian-American communities about the potential appropriation of their money by fundamentalist groups who use it to fund hate campaigns against minorities. The Campaign was initiated in part by the citizens who wrote "The Foreign Exchange of Hate." This report highlights connections between the India Development and Relief Fund (IDRF) in the United States and Hindu fundamentalist groups in India. The report dispels the illusion that IDRF sponsors developments efforts, and reveals the truth about IDRF--that it funds groups who encourage and incite communal violence. It specifically documents the way IDRF has channeled funds, intended by donors to contribute to development and relief efforts in India, towards Hindu extremist groups On its website, IDRF claims that it raises money to "serve economically and socially disadvantaged people irrespective of caste, sect, region or religion," and utilizes such funds in a sectarian manner. The Report notes, however, that IDRF allocates over eighty percent of its funds to Sangh Parivar affiliates. Of the 67 IDRF affiliate organizations, 52 are associated with the Sangh. The Report also notes that of the 5.5 million dollars IDRF raised during the past decade, nearly 69 percent go to fundamentalist organizations working in adivasi (tribal) and rural areas. A large segment is allocated for educational projects of Hinduization, which encourage the disintegration of adivasi (and non-Hindu) cultures through their incorporation into Hindutva. Sewa Bharti, an associate of the Sangh, funded by IDRF, organized a Hindu Sangam in Madhya Pradesh in January 2002. The Citizens Tribunal has charged that such efforts facilitated the mobilization of adivasis against other minorities in Gujarat. Vanvasi Kalyan Parishad and Vivekananda Kendra, also funded by IDRF, were both complicit in the communalization of adivasis. As IDRF funnels funds to groups like the Sangh Parivar and these groups begin to wield greater power, they undermine the secular roots of the Indian state. These extremists contend that national commitments to secular tolerance of the religious and irreligious have been a tactic for undermining India's "true culture"--a glorious and exclusively Hindu culture. The Sangh Parivar offers genocide as a "rational" response to betrayal of the "true" culture by non-Hindu Indians and seeks to create political, social and economic conditions in which it is no longer tenable to be non-Hindu in India. The report shocked even those already involved in excavating Hindu right wing activities in India and abroad. It also made us critically aware of the importance of building and sustaining a campaign to disseminate information about the politics, and transnational mobilization, of hate money. The Campaign has used this report to lobby major corporations and portals that enable IDRF to collect and transmit funds to the Sangh Parivar. The Campaign also made sustained efforts to educate the broader American public and the Indian diaspora about hate funds raised in the United States that promote riot after riot, and sanction cycles of communal violence that hold India captive. The Campaign's focus on educating American communities, both mainstream and immigrant, about IDRF is especially important given that much of the violence against Muslims in India has been funded by the diaspora. While some of these funds come from fundamentalists living abroad, much has come from innocent donors who have been deceived by the seemingly innocuous IDRF, which claims to fundraise for organizations in India that assist in development and tribal well being. For example, the Cisco corporation and its employees gave $133,000 to IDRF, most of which went to the Sangh Parivar's network of organizations in India. IDRF has responded to the Campaign and its report, emphatically maintaining that it has no connections with the Sangh Parivar. Its response is extremely tame and does not even attempt to engage with the meticulously researched facts in the Report. The sporadic participation of Hinduized adivasi and Dalit communities in the brutalization of Muslims was a sad and unexpected dimension of the recent violence in Gujarat. IDRF did not raise any funds in support of Gujarat's victims. Was it because the organizations it upholds were incriminated? Or is it that IDRF has historically intervened to help predominantly Hindu victims? Other rightist groups have responded to the Report as well. It has earned a counter campaign of hate from Hindutva organizations in the United States. Supporters of Hindutva allege that the Campaign's position of 'No funding for Hindutva' is synonymous with 'No funding for Development.' Unsubstantiated counter reports have challenged the 'Foreign Exchange of Hate' and attacked the credibility of the Campaign. Women members and those belonging to minority communities have been targeted and threatened in e-mail and other campaigns by the right wing press and Hindutva websites. Other groups have responded more favorably. It has been received well by the media and the public. Corporations such as Cisco have suspended matching contributions to IDRF pending further investigations while Sun Microsystems is reviewing the information presented by the Campaign. South Asian academics have resoundingly endorsed the report and the Campaign. The controversy over IDRF has facilitated a more hopeful debate, particularly within diaspora development organizations regarding the necessity of secularizing development. It has energized aid organizations to undertake extensive outreach so they might speak with the moderate diaspora. It has prompted leadership and myriad ideas about networks, coalitions and frameworks through which Indians abroad may contribute to India's secular development. It has made progressive Indians in America working for India's development critically aware that they cannot support the frameworks of cultural annihilation through which development is imagined and modernization attempted by the Sangh. Angana Chatterji is associate professor of Social and Cultural Anthropology at California Institute of Integral Studies as and a member of the Campaign to Stop Funding Hate.

Posted by: Viren Dec 18 2003, 09:27 PM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Dec 19 2003, 12:17 AM)
I am not sure where else to post this.. here it goes... Flush.gif
k.ram: I could swear that we had a IRDF thread here at IF where members had posted links to sites/articles that exposed these liars like Angana Chatterjee. Anyone with articles by n3.gif or others on this? Can't seem to find his geocities website. ohmy.gif Also, detroit_desji, you had some good material archieved at your site - link please smile.gif

Posted by: Viren Dec 26 2003, 11:28 AM

medicinal crop classified as divyaaushadh in Ayurveda, the safed musli is used as an anti-arthritic and anti-cancer drug

Posted by: Viren Dec 30 2003, 01:21 PM

Posted by: Mudy Jan 10 2004, 10:13 PM

Fate of the elderly reflects a sad reality of modern India FREEHAND| Soni Sangwan New Delhi, October 6 The most talked about film this week, Baghban, could not have been released at a more appropriate time, coming in the same week as World Elderly Day. That a film about elderly parents being ill-treated by their self-obsessed offspring remains relevant even two decades after the Rajesh Khanna-Shabana Azmi starrer Avtaar, serves to show how real and omnipresent the problem is. Two years ago, we had written about Sardar Puran Singh, a gentleman in his seventies, who had been thrown out of his own house by his sons. For several days in the biting Delhi November, the old man and his wife lived on the footpath outside their home. After we reported the story, the Chief Justice of India directed an enquiry into the matter and within days, the old couple was restored to their home. This report led to a flurry of telephone calls and letters from all over the city — all from senior citizens with tales of how their own children were ill-treating them. The story of Baghban and Avtaar is repeated in several respectable homes all over the country every day. One letter came from a retired Indian Administrative Service (IAS) officer living in Vasant Kunj. Both his son and daughter-in-law work in large multinational corporations (MNCs). The old gentleman’s problem became known because some women in the neighbourhood complained that he was exposing himself in public. The reason for this was that because of the water shortage in the area, the flush in their second floor flat would not work. Coming home to a stinking toilet was something that neither son nor daughter-in-law wanted. So they would simply lock the bathroom door every morning. It was to relieve himself that the old man would run out into the street, giving an impression to the women around that he was exposing himself. Then there was this lady who would simply call up to talk. Her children had a busy life — professionally and socially — and had just no time to talk to her. The lady had just about everything in material terms but was completely alone emotionally. Himanshu Rath of Agewell, a non-governmental organisation that promoted the concept of ‘rent a family’, recalls the story of a Defence Colony family that owns a showroom in Connaught Place. The old man had turned over the reins of the family business to his son and decided to spend his retirement days with his grandchildren. He would come to Himanshu and weep. His son had apparently put him in charge of the grandson’s homework supervision. If the kid failed to do well in school, the grandfather would be slapped — one slap for each mark that the boy had lost in school. devilsmiley.gif There is an old man at the New Delhi Municipal Council-run senior citizens’ home, Sandhya, who simply lost his zest for life after even his grandchildren forgot about him. He had reconciled to his children leaving him at the home, but had continued to retain some faith in his grandson. The day this grandson was to return from abroad, the old man woke up bright and early, dressed in his best and was the first person to sit in the bus at the home that takes the senior citizens out for the day. He sat in the bus all day. When the home administration called his children to check if they should drop him, they were told that no such plan had been finalized. Since that day, the light seems to have gone out of his life. If reading about these people is depressing, imagine what living their life may be like. And there is really no need to imagine — with each passing year, even the most successful, most powerful, most influential among us is moving closer to being in their shoes. Cruelty to the elderly in our families does not entail physical torture — though this is probably more common than you might think. It is the mental agony of knowing that your own children, for whom you did everything, do not want you around that is worse. Escaping the emotional responsibility by placing parents in institutions is simply no solution. Experts argue that the integrational approach is the best. The poster girl of senior citizens who continues to be feted, Zohra Sehgal, is one such example. It is sad to see that a country that is led by a septuagenarian, where people really come into their prime in their forties, and where the people’s life span is steadily increasing, we still need films like Avtaar and Baghban to hold up a mirror to the reality of what happens in most homes.,00300009.htm

Posted by: rhytha Jan 14 2004, 09:59 AM

Hip hip hurray, we are ranked 10th in google for "india discussion forum" clap.gif clap.gif stereo.gif Graduate thumbup.gif cheers.gif specool.gif check it out

Posted by: Mudy Jan 19 2004, 01:13 PM

Here comes Lefist in action By Bhupen Patel in Mumbai A Non-Resident Indian (NRI) allegedly raped a 27-year-old South African woman, in the City to attend the World Social Forum (WSF), at a south Mumbai five-star hotel early Sunday. Acting on a complaint filed by Julie Williams (name changed) the Cuffe Parade police have registered an offence of rape against 53-year-old Sirajuddin Desai, a high court advocate in South Africa. The police have detained the accused, but not yet arrested him in the case. An officer from the Cuffe Parade police station said, “We took both the accused and the complainant for medical tests. The accused is currently detained as we need to speak to the South African consulate, which is closed on Sundays.” According to Williams’ statement to the police, she came to Mumbai to attend the WSF meet at Goregaon. On January 17, she was introduced to Desai, who was put up in the same hotel, by some friends. After being introduced, the two met again for a drink at a pub in Colaba yesterday, along with Williams’ friends. On returning to the hotel, Desai invited Williams and her friends to his room, where they talked for a couple of minutes before returning to their respective rooms. After leaving Desai’s room, Williams once again went to his room to discuss some important matter, in the course of which the accused held her and began kissing her. Williams told the police that she was overpowered by Desai and on realising that she couldn’t escape, begged him to use a condom. After the incident, Williams informed her husband in South Africa, and he told her to register a complaint with the police. The used condom, which she had taken along with her to the police station, and the samples collected during the medical examinations will be sent to the State Forensic Laboratory in Kalina.

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Jan 19 2004, 01:43 PM

This whole WSF is a Jihadi/ Commie gathering that is being monitored for rising terrorist stars. I guess India allowed it just to show that it allows freedom of expression more than any other nation. But the participants should be carefully investigated, especiall for trying to develop international terrorist connections.

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Jan 19 2004, 06:20 PM

While chatting over "geopolitics" with an Israeli acquaintence we stumbled upon an issue that interested me from an Indian angle. He mentioned that the guy called Yigal Amir, a jew who murder Rabin was not executed but is serving a life sentence in an isolated cell. He went to say that while most Israelis believe that his crime was a serious one that deserved major punisment, they did not believe that he needed exectution for he was acting with highest patriotic intentions. ... This brings up the issue of Gandhi Hatya. I believe that Godse's situation was similar to Amir's. Due to my faith in the Hindu law I believe that the death sentence was not unfair in his case (Death sentence is recommended for murder of an unarmed civilian by many ancient Hindu authorities). But the fact remains that he was acting patriotically and Gandhi (Nehru)'s irresponsibility had cost more than a million Indians the maximum. What is disappointing is that : 1)The whole Hindu oriented political school was banned and tarred in the worst way. 2) The whole story of Godse's actions was given a spin to whitewash the Hindu genocide resulting from the 2 nation theory. 3) Secularism was foisted on the Indian masses with the excuse of correcting Gandhi hatya. Here is where I think we yet again need to take a leaf from the Israeli book and accept the realities of mideaval and recent Indian history.

Posted by: Mudy Jan 19 2004, 06:51 PM

Nehru was suffering from White Skin syndrome, anthing brown was backward and need to be changed. First generation of Indian politician are from Cambridge school of Leftist. Even during Muhgal and british occupation Gurkul survived, but after freedom all Gurkuls are now closed but Madarsa and Catholic schools are opened in exponential number. It is sad.

Posted by: rhytha Jan 20 2004, 02:04 AM

Here is something good I got.........Its worth going through...for a change from routine work... God : Hello. Did you call me? Me: Called you? No.. who is this? God : This is GOD. I heard your prayers. So I thought I will chat. Me: I do pray. Just makes me feel good. I am actually busy now. I am in the midst of something.. God : What are you busy at? Ants are busy too. Me: Don't know. But I cant find free time. Life has become hectic. It's rush hour all the time. God : Sure. Activity gets you busy. But productivity gets you results. Activity consumes time. Productivity frees it. Me: I understand. But I still cant figure out. By the way, I was not expecting YOU to buzz me on instant messaging chat. God : Well I wanted to resolve your fight for time, by giving you some clarity. In this net era, I wanted to reach you through the medium you are comfortable with. Me: Tell me, why has life become complicated now? God : Stop analysing life. Just live it. Analysis is what makes it complicated. Me: why are we then constantly unhappy? God : Your today is the tomorrow that you worried about yesterday. You are worrying because you are analysing. Worrying has become your habit. That's why you are not happy. Me: But how can we not worry when there is so much uncertainty? God : Uncertainty is inevitable, but worrying is optional. Me: But then, there is so much pain due to uncertainty.. God : Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. Me: If suffering is optional, why do good people always suffer? God : Diamond cannot be polished without friction. Gold cannot be purified without fire. Good people go through trials, but don't suffer. With that experience their life become better not bitter. Me: You mean to say such experience is useful? God : Yes. Experience is a hard teacher. She gives the test first and the lessons afterwards. Me: But still, why should we go through such tests? Why cant we be free from problems? God : Problems are Purposeful Roadblocks Offering Beneficial Lessons (to) Enhance Metal Strength. Inner strength comes from struggle and endurance, not when you are free from problems. Me: Frankly in the midst of so many problems, we don't know where we are heading.. God : If you look outside you will not know where you are heading. Look inside. Looking outside, you dream. Looking inside, you awaken. Eyes provide sight. Heart provides insight. Me: Sometimes not succeeding fast seems to hurt more than moving in the right direction. What should I do? God : Success is a measure as decided by others. Satisfaction is a measure as decided by you. Knowing the road ahead is more satisfying than knowing you rode ahead. You work with the compass. Let others work with the clock. Me: In tough times, how do you stay motivated? God : Always look at how far you have come rather than how far you have to go. Always count your blessing, not what you are missing. Me: What surprises you about people? God : when they suffer they ask, "why me?" When they prosper, they never ask "Why me" Everyone wishes to have truth on their side, but few want to be on the side of the truth. Me: Sometimes I ask, who am I, why am I here. I cant get the answer. God : Seek not to find who you are, but to determine who you want to be. Stop looking for a purpose as to why you are here. Create it. Life is not a process of discovery but a process of creation. Me: How can I get the best out of life? God : Face your past without regret. Handle your present with confidence. Prepare for the future without fear. Me: One last question. Sometimes I feel my prayers are not answered. God : There are no unanswered prayers. At times the answer is NO. Me: Thank you for this wonderful chat. I am so happy to start the New Year with a new sense of inspiration. God : Well. Keep the faith and drop the fear. Don't believe your doubts and doubt your beliefs. Life is a mystery to solve not a problem to resolve. Trust me. Life is wonderful if you know how to live. Best wishes for a wonderful year ahead. Bye.

Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 28 2004, 09:24 PM

Question for admins. Should we invite Rahul Mehta from BR to start a forum on govt-procedures ? Its an interesting topic - one of relevance, i think and the man is very well-researched. He has an interesting website and wants to start a discussion forum. His email address is if someone wants to send an invite. Regards..

Posted by: Viren Jan 28 2004, 10:30 PM

QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Jan 29 2004, 12:24 AM)
Should we invite Rahul Mehta from BR to start a forum on govt-procedures ?
I always wondered as to why he hasn't posted anything here. He certainly seems to know a lot on the subject. And I have always admired his tenacity and his views - though at times I feel that people who use hammer exclusively tend to see every problem as a nail biggrin.gif . Anyone around who knows him? blink.gif

Posted by: rhytha Feb 1 2004, 09:36 AM

Hi guys can anyone give me an idea on which digital camera to buy, i need a intial level or less than $150 range with optical zoom. I have my "i"s on Kodak_EasyShare_CX6230, is it good thanx for help Graduate

Posted by: rajesh_g Feb 1 2004, 10:49 PM

It seems Gen S Padmanabhan has been reading Krishna's signature lately.. smile.gif BTW has anybody read Gen Sundarji's books ? Padmanabhan turns prophetic like Sundarji RAHUL SINGH TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ MONDAY, FEBRUARY 02, 2004 01:05:46 AM ] CHANDIGARH: Making prophecies is dangerous but former Army chiefs like it anyway. After the flamboyant scholar warrior, Gen K Sundarji, crafted fictional futuristic scenarios in his works ‘‘Vision 2100: A Strategy for Twenty-First Century'' and ‘‘Blind Men of Hindoostan'' in 1990s, it is now the turn of Gen S Padmanabhan to be prophetic with his debut hardback ‘‘The Writing on the Wall: India Checkmates America 2017.'' If Sundarji attempted to spark off a debate within civil society regarding the type of nuclear arsenal India ought to maintain, Paddy, as Padmanabhan is known, has raised doubts over the future of nation-states if they do not prepare themselves to resist being overrun by self-seeking hegemons (read the US). There are, however, some parallels in the writings of the two generals. Like Padmanabhan, Sundarji also raised questions over the future of nation-states in Vision 2100, arguing that their legitimacy was at stake. But he believed that the danger was from the rise of sub-nationalism among various communities. Sundarji profiled a future wherein there would be lesser need to resort to armed force in conflict resolution. He detailed a scenario in which a reorganised and strengthened United Nations would play an effective role in world affairs. Padmanabhan too talks of strengthening the UN and makes a strong case for endowing it with the wherewithal to make its writ to run. Both authors predict a thaw in Sino-Indian ties. While Vision 2100 makes India a potential friend of China after it accepts Chinese sovereignty over Tibet, Padmanabhan forecasts that the two countries would sign a peace treaty in 2015. On the use of nukes, Blind Men of Hindoostan crafts a chilly scenario of nuclear conflict between India and Pakistan. Padmanabhan envisions a UK-backed Pakistan contemplating the nuclear option against India in 2017. The US is against the powerful alliance formed by India, China, Russia and Vietnam, ‘‘which would pose a serious challenge to its goal of perpetuating world dominance''. Padmanabhan believes return of bi-polarity would restrict US' freedom of action, something the Americans will not accept since it stops the ‘rogue-superpower' from pursuing her national interests. Padmanabhan expects a short, sharp war in 2017 in which the US finds herself checkmated by a resilient India in a 60-hour war. Striking an optimistic note, Padmanabhan predicts that internal dissention in India will end by 2010. In a utopian account, Padmanabhan's India also achieves a high degree of modernisation during the period 2003-2017, evenly matched with the US. Padmanabhan ‘Book is India-centric’ Talking to Times News Network from Delhi, Gen Padmanabhan said his book was about what India could achieve if it had the stamina to build on its areas of strength while reducing its weaknesses. He said, ‘‘It has a message for the Indian community to stand up for what is right and reject what is wrong. The US, Pakistan and other nations may be part of the futuristic vision but the book remains India-centric.'' On sharing Sundarji's perspective on some issues, he said, ‘‘Some of the views expressed in my book are rather widely-held.'' The former Army chief took about five months to complete the 300-page book, slated for release on February 5. Manas Publications has published the book.

Posted by: Mudy Feb 4 2004, 12:22 AM

Bunker found near PM's Office New Delhi, Feb. 3: Construction workers digging the foundation of a security wall around the Prime Minister’s Office at South Block in Lutyen’s Delhi have exposed steel reinforced rods of an underground bunker — probably built by British monarchs to escape in case of emergency. Based on the detection of a big hole at the basement, existence of a tunnel connecting the bunker with Rashtrapati Bhawan cannot be rule out. It is yet to be ascertained where the tunnel of the hole ends. Not ready to share this four-month old accidental unearthing the CPWD and defence officials are tight-lipped and are carrying out the digging work in a highly secretive manner. The Defence Ministry joined the excavation work when some CPWD workers after digging the earth for six feet hit at some “hard object”. Further digging revealed the presence of the underground cell filled and covered with mud. The RCC material built chemical proof bunker is 30 meters long, 15.16 meters wide and 25 feet high, as per sources. Obviously a “hiding hole” for emergency purpose the bunker has about 12-13 exhaust pipes on its wall to let breath the inmate in the cell. This RCC built bunker is supported by 16 beams of (800mm by 800 mm and 600mm by 600 mm) and 24 columns. “We have found a round hole on the ceiling of the bunker, which was probably used to escape from Rashtrapati Bhawan to outside or vice-versa,” officials said. They are puzzled with the half-meter gap that exists between the hole and 25 stairs which runs to the base of the bunker. 70-odd labourers are engaged to dig the mud from the cell. About 800 trucks of mud has already been off loaded, said the official. During digging the labourers have found some iron plates, glass and bottles, some aluminium motor type structures and stone slabs whose importance is yet to be known. The labourers at the site have not ruled out the presence of similar another underground structure, said sources. “Though it is too early to talk about the purpose behind the construction of this secret hideouts but probably Britishers did not want the Indians to know about it. They must have covered it with mud and other waste materials when unable to physically destroy it after partition of the country,” they said.

Posted by: k.ram Feb 5 2004, 09:16 AM Women and Hinduism in Textbooks David Freedholm In a recent article on Sulekha, Sankrant Sanu examined Microsoft Encarta's treatment of Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. He concluded that Encarta's portrayal of Hinduism was decidedly skewed and negative in comparison to the more even-handed and sophisticated treatments granted Islam and Christianity. Sanu's article [i] prompted me to look closer at the world religions textbook I have often used in my teaching. This textbook, Mary Pat Fisher's Living Religions (5th ed., Upper Saddle River, NJ: Prentice Hall, 2002), is published by one of the largest textbook publishers in the U.S. and is an often-used text in American colleges, universities and prep schools. In my view, Fisher's book is, on the whole, a very good textbook and, in comparison to others, presents relatively balanced and sympathetic portrayals of the world's religions. But, that being said, I have always contended that Hinduism and, in comparison to the other major world religions, does not receive equal treatment in Fisher's book and is at times painted in decidedly negative ways. What follows is a brief case study comparing how Fisher treats women's issues in Hinduism, Christianity and Islam. Fisher gives relatively short attention to women's issues in Hinduism despite her claim in the introduction to the 5th edition that "coverage of women's contributions and women's issues has been increased."(p. 13) Fisher's treatment of women's issues in Hinduism comes in the context of a longer section on devotion to various forms of the devi. Her transition sentence is quite telling and reveals the overall tone of her coverage of women's issues in Hinduism: Worship of the goddess in India and Nepal continues to exist side by side with social attempts to limit and confine women's power. (p. 105) Fisher goes on to accent the historical and contemporary "ambivalence" in Hinduism towards women which is revealed in the contrast between the veneration of the feminine in Hindu thought and practice and the pronounced patriarchalism of Hindu society. In the three short paragraphs that follow this opening, Fisher stresses what she sees as the negative treatment of women in Hindu society. She notes that while the ideal of Hindu marriage is for husband and wife to be "spiritual partners," A women's role is usually linked to that of her husband, who takes the position of her god and guru. For many centuries, there was even the hope that a widow would choose to be cremated alive with her dead husband in order to remain united with him after death. (p. 105) This is a rather astonishing shift of gears which leaves the impression that sati was somehow the ideal historically in Hinduism. There is no explanation or qualification of this claim. The uninformed reader, most of whom are young American students, would assume that sati, the burning of widows on their husbands' pyres, was and maybe even is the normal expectation for Hindu wives. What Fisher does not say is that sati was never widely practiced in India and in the modern period is very, very rare. Also, as Madhu Kishwar (editor of Manushi, one of India's foremost feminist journals) writes of the practice of widow burning "There is absolutely no evidence that any of our vast array of religious texts sanctified such murders as sati."[ii] As well, Fisher fails to note that sati is universally abhorred by Hindu leaders, thinkers and practitioners. Placing such an unexplained and unqualified statement in this context is very misleading and unfair. As Yvette Rosser has said: Defining Hindu practices through a discussion of sati is no more accurate than defining Christianity by delving at length into the "Burning Times" in Medieval Europe when as many as nine million women, and even children, were burned at the stake as witches through the encouragement and official approval of the Christian Church. The burning of women does not define Christianity any more than the burning of widows defines Hinduism – both are long discarded practices of the past.[iii] In fact, given that the objective in the American classroom should be to help students gain an appreciation of a minority religion's central ideas, the topic of sati is as irrelevant and unsuitable as witch burning would be for a discussion of Christianity. If this isn't disconcerting enough, Fisher concludes her brief treatment of women's issues by again contrasting the ideal view of women in Hindu society with the very bad treatment that women actually receive. She says: By the nineteenth century, however, wives had become the virtual slaves of the husband's family. With expectations that the girl will take a large dowry to the boy's family in a marriage arrangement, having girls is such an economic burden that many female babies are intentionally aborted or killed at birth. There are also cases today of women being severely beaten or killed by the husband's family after their dowry has been handed over. Nevertheless many women in contemporary India have been well educated and many have attained high political positions. Again, Fisher does not indicate in what manner horrible practices such as infanticide and dowry murder are linked to Hindu thought and practice (because, of course, they are not). She simply implies that they must be linked, because there are such societal problems in India they must somehow be related to Hinduism. This would be akin to claiming that because there is considerable violence against women in American society it is due to Christianity! All in all, the above paragraph is a rather remarkable string of sentences which seems to claim that some women in India have succeeded despite the widely prevalent "slave" status of wives, infanticide of female babies, and dowry violence and murder. The uninformed reader would assume from Fisher's four paragraphs on women's issues that, due to Hinduism, women are very seriously mistreated in Hindu society and have very unequal status. Before commenting further on this, it will be helpful to look at how Fisher deals with women's issues in her chapters on Christianity and Islam. In contrast to Hinduism, Fisher's treatment of women's issues in Christianity concentrates not on the historical role of women in Christian societies nor on the current attitudes towards women in contemporary Christian societies but on Christian feminist theology. In so doing, Fisher completely separates societal treatment of and attitudes toward women from Christian institutions and theology. This is a move that Fisher refused to make with Hinduism. Given that Christian societies have not been any less patriarchal than Hindu societies, either historically or in many current contexts, one wonders why Christianity is exempted from the same responsibility. Would it be any less true, for example, to declare of Christianity that "Devotion to Mary in Christian societies continues to exist side by side with social attempts to limit and confine women's power"? As well, why doesn't Fisher note that domestic violence against women and murder of wives and girlfriends is a widespread (and, by the way, is statistically far more frequent than in Indian society) in Christian societies? Well, one of the reasons seems to be that Fisher contends that patriarchy and the mistreatment of women is not consistent with the ideals of Christianity. In fact, she goes to great lengths to make this clear this in her section on women's issues, explaining that, The Church institution has historically been dominated by men, although there is strong evidence that Jesus had active women disciples and that there were women leaders in the early churches. (p. 354) Also, acknowledging that one can find statements in Christian scripture that "seem oppressive to women" (p. 354), Fisher explains that Christian feminist theologians have tried to "sort out the cultural and historical as well as the theological contexts of such statements" (p. 355) and have looked to stress the positive "role models for women in the Bible." (p. 355) Fisher also recognizes that while church dogmas about Mary "may be inflated, they nonetheless reveal a wellspring of hope for women." (p. 355) What is interesting here is that, in contrast to her portrayal of Hinduism, Fisher has tried to paint Christianity in the best possible light with regard to women's issues. In her Hinduism chapter, Fisher went to great lengths to emphasize the large inconsistency between Hindu veneration of the devi and the supposed widespread mistreatment of women in Hindu society. However, the same inconsistency between the actual treatment of women in Christian societies and the egalitarian ideals of Christianity is ignored. In fact, in the case of Christianity, Fisher goes to great pains to highlight feminist reinterpretations of Christian history and theology so as to show the true egalitarian ideal of Christianity! Of course, the efforts of Hindu feminists like Madhu Kishwar to interpret Hindu history and thought in egalitarian ways are not mentioned in Fisher's textbook. The reader of Living Religions is then left with a very stark contrast between the violent patriarchy of Hinduism and the feminist egalitarianism of Christianity. Moving to Fisher's chapter on Islam, the reader is given a highly nuanced look at women's issues. Coming in her section on Muslim resurgence in the modern world, Fisher speaks somewhat candidly about the severe restrictions placed upon women in many Islamic societies. She informs the reader about the very serious mistreatment of women by the Taliban in Afghanistan and in other strict Islamic societies. Tellingly, Fisher attempts to show that such treatment of women is really against the ideals of Islam itself. She says, Some customs thought to Muslim are actually cultural practices not specified in the basic sources; they are the result of Islamic civilization's assimilation of many cultures in many places. Muhammad worked side-by-side with women, and the Qur'an encourages equal participation of women in religion and in society. (p. 403) Also, as with Christianity, Fisher plays up the work of contemporary Muslim feminists who see Islam as inherently egalitarian. She includes a long quote from Qur'anic scholar Amina Wadud, who says: The more research I did into the Qur'an . . . the more affirmed I was that in Islam a female person was intended to be primordially, cosmologically, spiritually, and morally a full human being, equal to all. (p. 403) What this reveals is that again Fisher has gone to considerable effort to separate the actual treatment of women in society, in this case Islamic society, from the ideals of the religion in question as interpreted by contemporary feminist scholars. In so doing, a distinction is drawn between "cultural practices," i.e. the very real oppression and mistreatment of women in many Islamic societies, and Islamic ideals of equality and egalitarianism. What this brief comparison reveals is that Hinduism is not afforded the same balanced and nuanced treatment with regard to women's issues given to Christianity and Islam in Fisher's textbook. Hinduism and Indian society are portrayed as schizophrenic in that they venerate the devi and idealize women on the one hand and on the other treat wives as "slaves," encourage sati, kill infant girls and condone dowry murder. In contrast, the oppression and mistreatment of women in Christian and Islamic societies are either ignored or seen as against the true ideals of Christianity and Islam. Feminist scholarship and theology are given wide play in the chapters on Christianity and Islam, but Fisher is silent about feminism in Hindu thought. All of this leaves a very negative impression of Hinduism vis a vis the other religions. It also can, unintentionally perhaps, further stereotypes of what is seen as a backward and violent Hinduism in contrast to a more progressive and liberated West. A number of important observations deserved to be made at this point. First, I am not trying to deny that women have been oppressed at times in Hindu society. Of course, they have been oppressed and have been the objects of violence from males, just as women have received similar treatment in Christian and Islamic societies (and in other societies as well). But what is the relationship between theology and religious practice and societal oppression of women? It is clear that religion and theology can be and is often used to sustain and reinforce patriarchal attitudes in societies, whether they be Hindu, Christian or Muslim. It is also clear that religion and theology can and have been used in ways to challenge, break down and replace patriarchal attitudes in these same societies. Which role is to be emphasized in a general introduction to a religion? It is apparent that in the case of Fisher's textbook, the former role is emphasized with Hinduism while the latter is played up in the cases of Christianity and Islam. This raises the question of fairness and balance in portrayals. Secondly, what this short case study shows is that care needs to be taken when making editorial decisions in a textbook intended for beginning students. In this case, very little space is allotted to women's issues within Hinduism. Is it fair to leave American students with the impression that sati and dowry murder are the most characteristic and important ways women are treated in Hindu society? How would Christians feel if Indian textbooks spoke only of domestic violence against women in their treatment of Christianity and women's issues? Why isn't contemporary feminist thought in Hinduism given equal time? Why aren't Hindu ideals and the attitudes of the vast majority of Hindus which abhor sati and dowry murder talked about? Why does the author not discuss the Hindu women saints in history, the enlightened and outspoken Hindu women in the Mahabharata, the impressive statistics of the advancement of women in India in the past fifty years in a variety of fields that compares favorably to similar statistics in other former colonies, and, in many respects, with the West? Why does she not discuss the fact that in the state of Maharashtra, a large number of women priests have assumed leadership of Hindu worship? In conclusion, this short study focused only on the way women's issues are portrayed in Mary Fisher's Living Religions. My experience in using and reading other textbooks on world religions reveals that the unfair and unbalanced way that Fisher portrays Hinduism in this case is quite typical unfortunately. Also, I would contend that this unfair and inaccurate treatment of Hinduism extends to other areas as well including portrayals of the caste system, descriptions of the meaning of some religious symbols (e.g. the lingam), and characterizations of modern Hindu movements. I would hope that textbook authors and publishers would seek to remedy the imbalance in portrayals through a process of revisions or by publishing new textbooks. [i] [ii] Madhu Kishwar, "Deadly Laws and Zealous Reformers: The Conflicting Interpretations and Politics of Sati," [iii]Yvette C. Rosser, "The Clandestine Curriculum in the Classroom," Education About Asia, Vol. 6:3 (Winter 2001)

Posted by: amarnath Feb 8 2004, 11:56 PM

Most if not all parents are happy if their kids go abroad to study, their sons/daughters getting home sick or they weeping about their sons comes later ! How would it be if we could discuss about Indian students learning abroad and thier problems esp Some of the hot destinations are like * US * UK * Australia * Russia - mainly for medicine !, but hey how about aviation ? Advantage Cost * New Zealand specool.gif And what else ? ... The points to ponder about these are , costs , employement post education/during studies, admission procedures and what else ? Also in most of the countries like Aus and Russia , skin-heads are a major problem especially in Moscow i 'heard',.... very wll what say you members ? It would be nice if you share your own experiences too !

Posted by: Dipanker Feb 9 2004, 02:54 PM

Question on accessing www through free www proxy server I am interested to find out how to access the web anonymously (hiding the IP address) through use of free proxy www proxy servers. Can anyone refer me to some FAQ on how to do it? Thanks!

Posted by: amarnath Feb 11 2004, 01:57 AM

may be i posted a stupid topic....anyway one last time Page Up !

Posted by: rhytha Feb 11 2004, 04:35 AM


Posted by: Viren Feb 11 2004, 09:31 AM

amarnath: Not sure we have enough members/interest for this topic. But let me try responding based on your queries

Some of the hot destinations are like * US
At one point the number of Indian F1 students in US was second only to China. Not sure on latest trends.
Costs differ from state to state in US. I guess primarily dictated by the cost of living for the region with some northeast or western states being high on the list. Most/many students for India come on some kind of scholarship/assistanship or accquire one shortly - just a personal observation, no data to support it.
F1 students to US have INS limitation on where and when and how many hours they can work. Typically F1 students are authorized to work for about 20 hours per week on campus. Might be more during summer semester. I trust there are also some external internship programs or practical training programs - all depends on case by case and is addressed by the Universitys' International advisor.
admission procedures ...
Is better these days with internet than what it was in past. Anyone can order brochure or download admission forms or communicate with international office directly - thanks to internet. No more long lines outside USEFI in major metros or being dependent someone already in US to help contact any school.
skin-heads are a major problem especially in Moscow i 'heard',....
Not sure about other countries. In US, there are isolated cases which would fall more or less into a "crime" category more than a "hate crime" though I have heard cases of some brown skinned/turbaned people being ruffed up by local hooligans during Gulf war I and after 9/11. Life in general is fun and hardwork. Locals are nice and friendly and most have a open mind and wish to know more about the foreign culture. There a host family programs where some local will play host to a foreign student - it's purely to help understand each others culture, nothing monetary. Local NRIs too are friendly and help at times. Life on campus with other international students if fun too. Even Pakis are nice and friendly - as long as you don't talk about their H & D or J & K wink.gif Again, all personal observation - someone else might have a different view.

Posted by: Krishna Feb 11 2004, 05:25 PM

QUOTE(Viren @ Feb 11 2004, 10:31 AM)
amarnath: Not sure we have enough members/interest for this topic. But let me try responding based on your queries
Some of the hot destinations are like * US
At one point the number of Indian F1 students in US was second only to China. Not sure on latest trends.
Last year, the highest number of F1 came from India. I think the number was roughly around 70,000 or somthing!

Posted by: amarnath Feb 11 2004, 08:28 PM

Yheah the forum is in its early days ,but still we will make a start ! I tried about moscow skin-heads on net, well these skin-heads do not have the local support , and are found only in Moscow and St.Petersburg mostly...other cities are quite good for education.Only thing is you have to talk to a student studying there to get 'connected' before you land in Bear-Land

Posted by: Reggie Feb 20 2004, 02:12 AM

Now we are talking about the "Hindu rate of growth.",~Go.~Jas~Conquer~The~World Go India, Go. Jas Conquer The World, Singh Tells India Inc Q3 GDP growth at 8.9 per cent, fiscal’s at over 8 per cent OUR BANKING BUREAU MUMBAI, FEB 19: Union finance minister Jaswant Singh on Thursday asked Indian companies to go ahead and conquer the world through mergers and acquisitions even as he placed the third quarter GDP growth figure at 8.9 per cent.

Posted by: amarnath Mar 1 2004, 02:35 AM

Well now i need a passport for some purpose and the travel agent asks for my SSLC certificate and an letter from my col.principal. But are skeptical i may leave col and refuse to give certificate and ack.letter from principal.So how do i get a passport without my TC and School certificates ?

Posted by: Viren Mar 1 2004, 09:01 AM

QUOTE(amarnath @ Mar 1 2004, 05:35 AM)
Well now i need a passport for some purpose and the travel agent asks for my SSLC certificate and an letter from my col.principal. But are skeptical i may leave col and refuse to give certificate and ack.letter from principal.So how do i get a passport without my TC and School certificates ?
amarnath: Find out why you travel agent needs SSLC certificate. Might be because of the birth date verification. Also talk to your college authorities about this and explain that you want to apply for the passport. They might suggest an alternative course or help you directly. I'm sure there are other college students applying for passport for whatever reasons - ask students or college authorities as to how do they do it.

Posted by: rhytha Mar 1 2004, 09:23 AM

QUOTE(amarnath @ Mar 1 2004, 03:05 PM)
Well now i need a passport for some purpose and the travel agent asks for my SSLC certificate and an letter from my col.principal. But are skeptical i may leave col and refuse to give certificate and ack.letter from principal.So how do i get a passport without my TC and School certificates ?
you don't need a letter from u r college afaik, your TC should be enough, but its better u apply for youe passport once u finsh u r college, since then u will have a Graduate as ur qualification, also u won't be needing the immigration stamp(not very sure about that). Are u preparing for GRE, i think they ask for u r pp number, or somthing??

Posted by: Reggie Mar 1 2004, 09:25 AM

Did not know where to post it. So here goes... Secularism and appeasement of Muslims BY SWAPAN DASGUPTA If you need a textbook illustration of how secularist intervention can create discord, sometimes out of thin air, you need only look at the Uttar Pradesh Government's order last Thursday to declare Friday a half-day in educational institutions of the state. The order, modified after protests in the state Assembly the next day, was a shameless act of tokenism aimed at reinforcing Muslim separateness and using the community as communal fodder. It was an act of provocation that may yet end up needlessly vitiating the atmosphere between Hindus and Muslims. The issue is not, and never was, the right of Muslim students to offer Friday prayers. Like those Hindus who privately observe a fast on Tuesdays, most Muslims have happily used their lunch break to offer Friday namaz without that religious observance becoming an issue of state policy. There are public holidays for special occasions such as Id, Mohurrum and, following V.P. Singh's grandstanding from Red Fort in 1990, the Prophet's birthday. Being a faith-driven country, India has an exemplary record of readily accommodating the religious rites and rituals of all its citizens. The right of worship has never been an issue, not even during periods of intense communal tension. Indeed, there was no real demand from any quarter that teachers and students enjoy an extended weekend from Friday noon. If there was any universal Muslim demand, it was that the community should have more access to modern education so as to get over its colossal economic backwardness. Muslims, as the ever loquacious Arun Jaitley put it, "need education, more education not more holidays." It was a truism that was lost on Chief Minister Mulayam Singh Yadav. Now, Mulayam enjoys a reputation of being uncompromisingly secular. Translated into political terms it means that he has the ability to mobilise the support of large sections of Muslims on the polling day. In the past this support has been built on the strength of his no-holds-barred opposition to the BJP and his perceived advocacy of Muslim interests. Dating back to his image as a doughty crusader against the Ram Janmabhoomi movement in 1990-91, Mulayam has even earned himself the sobriquet Maulana. Yet this image has undeniably been eroded in recent times. The Leftists and progressives who dominate the chattering classes and exercise a disproportionate influence in the media have never forgiven Mulayam for his stubborn refusal to support Sonia Gandhi as prime minister in 1999, after Atal Behari Vajpayee was brought down by a single vote. Their impatience with Mulayam has increased with his continuing refusal to ally with Sonia for the coming general election. Desperate to secure the removal of Vajpayee and the NDA, it is the country's ultra-secularists who have also put out the whisper that Mulayam has entered into a secret understanding with the BJP. The intensity of the whispers has grown with Mulayam changing his political style over the years. From being regarded as the general of a lumpen army, he has become a darling of Mumbai's big business houses and has also made some inroads into the Hindu middle classes. Even on the vexed issue of Ayodhya, Mulayam has actually encouraged a process of Hindu-Muslim dialogue to resolve the issue. For anyone who cared to notice, there was, until this controversy erupted, a marked difference between the secular politics of today's Mulayam and the secular activism practised by him a decade ago. This didn't suit the secularist agenda. They sought to destroy the new Mulayam and chipped away at his Muslim base with a highly effective whisper campaign. A nervous Chief Minister chose last Thursday to send the signal that he can still be counted on to take up Muslim causes fearlessly, even when the cause itself is dubious. Tragically, secularist politicians have always chosen the route of separatist appeasement to court the Muslim vote. Whether it is the Muslim personal laws or the bans on books by Salman Rushdie or Tasleema Nasreen, secularists have always appealed to Muslims as a religious community that is somehow different from their Hindu neighbours. They have either played on Muslim fears or pandered to the most regressive sections of the community. In return, narrow-minded community leaders have ensured that on the polling day the Muslim turnout is significantly higher than the rest of the population. Either way they have encouraged the Muslim community to believe that their political clout lies in sticking steadfast to the ghettos and wearing the badge of separateness. It is one of the monumental contributions of secularist politics that Muslim self-interest has been tied, not to better roads, better living conditions and better education, but to the triple talaq, to beef, to a hatred of Israel and America, to glorification of Osama bin Laden and suicide bombers, and to holidays on Friday. A regressive agenda has been promoted to keep Muslims apart, backward and frightened. Mulayam succumbed to this agenda because this is the only path familiar to secularists. The onus is now on the Muslim community itself to show there is an alternative to secular fundamentalism. The alternative is mushrooming local movements to pressure District Magistrates into closing schools and colleges on Friday afternoons. And that, inevitably, will trigger a backlash giving secularists another opportunity to become apoplectic at the menace of Hindu communalism.

Posted by: Reggie Mar 1 2004, 01:49 PM

See how this sob (Chief Correspondent Syed Firdaus Ashraf) is trying to "trap" Sudha Chandra.

Posted by: Mudy Mar 3 2004, 01:55 PM biggrin.gif NEW DELHI, March 3 (UPI) -- Women in southern India say husbands are the biggest bane for wives followed by mothers-in-law and sisters-in-law, a survey has indicated. A study of nearly 1,500 women in India's southern Kerala state's 14 districts revealed 53.81 percent of women find their husbands to be the biggest headache. This was followed by 27.91 percent saying nagging mothers-in-law and sisters-in-law were also major causes for tension in their lives. The root cause for problems in Kerala households was money, followed by property disputes and women sick of their husbands' drinking habits, The Hindustan Times reported. The survey was conducted by the New Delhi-based Institute of Social Studies, the Center for Development Studies and a local hospital. A detailed questionnaire covered 1,308 men and 1,447 women. S. Irudayarajan, a member of the study team, said working women were more tense since they are expected to perform dual roles: earning a living and taking care of the home. Kerala is India's southern-most state with the highest literacy rate in the country. It is also a prosperous state with a booming tourism industry.

Posted by: Sudhir Mar 3 2004, 08:12 PM

The survey was conducted by the New Delhi-based Institute of Social Studies, the Center for Development Studies and a local hospital. A detailed questionnaire covered 1,308 men and 1,447 women.
I know of atleast one person who'll say this survey was a complete waste of money. tongue.gif

Posted by: Reggie Mar 4 2004, 12:18 AM

Rani Mukherjee with Indian jawans.'s~day~out~with~jawans

Posted by: Mudy Mar 8 2004, 10:57 AM,001300740000.htm Press Trust of India Mumbai, March 8 Air-India, on the occasion of the World Women's Day, on Monday operated its first flight to Singapore via Delhi (AI 470) with an all women cockpit crew. Captain Rashmi Miranda, who became Air-India's first woman Commander in November 2003, and Captain Kshmata Bajpai, piloted the flight, operated with an A310 aircraft, an A-I release said. The flight despatch activities relating to this flight was also coordinated by a woman flight dispatcher, Vasanti Kolnad while the safety audit on board was also conducted by another woman Harpreet D Singh. Air-India has 17 women pilots on its rolls, including five trainee pilots, the release added.

Posted by: ankit Mar 10 2004, 04:54 PM

M M Joshi is unnecessarily messing up with the IIMs. The recent events have shown that not only does he not have any regard for the finest educational institutions of India, he is out to jeorpardise their autonomous status. Even the license-quota goverments of the past did not resort to such ugly behaviour. Look at how they are resorting to threats. This is disugsting. I think this guy is the worst performing minister in this cabinet. vajpayee needs to kick him out, he is taking shine off the india shining thing.

Posted by: Sunder Mar 10 2004, 05:30 PM

Name calling does not help your credibility in bringing up an issue. Had Shri Joshi lowered the QUALITY of IIM's there is need for concern. Had lowering the fees caused an IIM institute to run in loss there is need for concern. If you have an objection to the slash in fees I would like to hear your concerns as to WHY someone economically backward, who has a good business understanding, should not enter an IIM. For someone to be called the WORST Minister and be kicked out, you are perhaps betting on the wrong person. Cheers.

Posted by: ankit Mar 10 2004, 05:59 PM

fees I would like to hear your concerns as to WHY someone economically backward, who has a good business understanding, should not enter an IIM.
This seems to the primary point people have been raising in support of Joshi. Lets see. When the IIMs hand over the prospectus to candidates taking CAT, they explicitly say that no person will be denied admission because he/she cannot pay the fees. Perhaps you may want to read this article by Sandipan Deb who conducts interviews for the IIMs. Also, you may want to see the salaries that these guys command. In this scenario, banks are ready to give loans to anyone. and guess what, even the person who lands with the least paying job can repay the loans in around two years. Now comes the question of 'quality'. Well, since the fees have been reduced, IIMs have indicated that they can no longer provide the same level of material to students. In addition to the excellent infrastructure, students at IIMs get to study the case studies from the best management schools of the world. remember, this is copyright material and costs an awful lot. there may be other issues as well, but it is only logical to assume that if you have less money to spend on education, quality will suffer as well. If, by the way, government decides to foot the bill, it will be worse. when we are busy reducing subsidies for the farmers it make little sense to finance the education of the set of people who will probably be earning the highest entrylevel salaries in india. and finally, here comes the reason why he is the worst minister in my opinion. this government claims to take india forward. it has done a good job in infrastructure, economy and foreign policy. i support this government because of shourie, jaitley and people of their breed. i dont support an education which aims to introduce astrology in the curriculum, even into the iits and takes away the freedom of the few world class insitutions that we have. there are other issues as well, such as the cirriculum and history distortion issues. but i shall try to elaborate later.

Posted by: Reggie Mar 10 2004, 10:48 PM

user posted image Basra War Memorial in Iraq. Notice the tribute to the Indian Army. Photo fit for BR. Somebody please post it there.

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Mar 11 2004, 04:50 PM

Did you all notice the coordinated bombings in Spain and the claims by the Al Qaeda? While they have not been blaming the Mullahs, I would not be entirely surprised if the Jihad is being carried into Europe- the resemblence to the Mumbai attacks cannot be missed. If that is a case it may be a grim reminder as to what Europe may be up for, especially given their demographic decline vis-a-vis the Islamic influx.

Posted by: Viren Mar 12 2004, 08:34 AM

QUOTE(Reggie @ Mar 11 2004, 01:48 AM)
Basra War Memorial in Iraq. Notice the tribute to the Indian Army. Photo fit for BR. Somebody please post it there.
Great pic Reggie. There are some senior BR members who post here. Hope one of them will post it on BR. Any links to Indians who fought there between 1914 to 1921?

Posted by: Viren Mar 12 2004, 09:11 AM

More on the Basra War Memorial: Siddharth Varadarajan had written in an article..

ever heard of Lance Naik Anthony, III F.13, of the Bullock Corps? Or perhaps of Barkat Ali the Sapper, N Swamy the Bullock Driver, or Kannikar, Birsa, Copalan and Bhima B of the Indian Labour Corps? I encountered their unremembered names at the Basra War Cemetery during a visit in 1998, on fading, chipped tombstones and the dusty, yellowing pages of Part XIII of The Basra War Memorial, Iraq, published by the Imperial War Graves Commission, 1931, and lovingly protected in a large sack by the cemetery’s caretaker. They, along with thousands of Indian soldiers, perished on the battlefields of Iraq during and after World War I, fighting a war of conquest and pacification against a fraternal people for the greater profit and glory of the British Empire

Posted by: Viren Mar 17 2004, 08:23 AM

Not sure if have a thread on this, we might have to create one. Came via email, sorry no clue on who the author is:

Who is responsible for anti-India campaign in US In recent years, the Indian police and press have started to pay attention to certain groups with 'peace,' 'civil liberties' and 'human rights' identities. Often, the scholars'/activists' assistance is by legitimizing a radical group through endorsement, such as when the Communist Party of India, Marxist Leninist Liberation honored the kin of about 1,000 'comrade martyrs', i e terrorists, at an event graced by several prominent 'social activists, environmentalists, and writers- turned-activists.' There are various cross-ideological alliances for activism in India where separatists of various kinds, Islamists, Christian fundamentalists and Leftists converge for collaborations. They blame Indian culture and Hinduism in particular as the fabric that holds India together, and wish to see it dismantled. US-based Indian intellectuals What has not been investigated adequately is the role of US-based intellectuals. Often, such 'activism' to champion the 'downtrodden' brings together well-known South Asian Studies scholars from powerful institutions, journalists and individuals linked to various Washington, DC based groups. There are numerous campus seminars and conferences promoting the 'human rights' face of these alliances. The funding mechanisms are complex and tough to unravel, because of dual-purpose work of individuals and groups. A well-established coterie of Indian-Americans has been actively filing one-sided complaints against India's alleged human rights violations to US authorities, with varying degrees of authenticity. Such activism has led to the recent blacklisting of India by the US Commission on International Religious Freedom. This Commission itself exists largely to protect the freedom of Christian evangelists to convert internationally. Rarely, if ever, has it condemned Christian countries over freedom of religion or investigated allegations against the proselytizers' practices. The US State Department declared in a recent report that India is a flawed democracy. Certain Indian Americans have played a pivotal role over the past decade in bringing about such condemnation, and they see this as the mere tip of the iceberg of what they wish to achieve in 'exposing' India, and in intellectually undermining India as a nation-state. Indeed, some of them insist that India is nothing more than an undesirable collection of conflicting groups. In the reverse direction, these US-based scholars supply academic 'theories' and 'strategies' that feed the ground campaigns in India via Indian intellectuals and NGOs. Many of them are also members of political parties back in India, and hence their work tends to be dual-purpose. Yet, the potential violations of US laws that prevent funding of foreign political parties by US citizens have apparently not been looked into. Ironically, many of these intellectuals are also aggressively raising millions of dollars from wealthy Indians in USA and India for these South Asian Studies programmes. Geopolitical consequences In critical geopolitical moments, these Indian Americans against India have diluted the USA's pressure against Pakistan, by making the average American hyphenate India and Pakistan as 'equal and same' in socio-political respects. The recent Outlook article by Seema Sirohi gives a concrete example to illustrate how this is happening. Such activism also undermines India's democracy and due process of law, because it bypass the use of legal means that are available in India to a far greater extent than in most other former colonies. Furthermore, such groups cannot show any concrete success in helping human rights by internationalising and sensationalizing the issues. They are disconnected and alienated from Indian heritage, which they look down upon as an embarrassment to their personal projection of Western identities. The Fellowship The reason for the lack of introspection by those involved is that many 'enlightened NGOs' see themselves as a fellowship of different kinds of rings of the heroic, wise and powerful. This 'association for a new humanity' is today's equivalent of mythical Arthurian roundtables, secret societies (such as Freemasons and esoteric groups) and councils of the wise. But these forged alliances, no matter how well intended initially, tend to attract disparate tricksters who corrupt other minions into becoming 'behind the scenes' power mongers. The ethics of deceit and treachery becomes the collective shadow and feeds 'structural violence,' i e destabilisation. The real challenge facing the 'save the world' movement is the problem of recognising and dealing with the shadowy subversive ties of such fellowships. Finally, every monopolistic fellowship develops both defensive and offensive strategies and tends to overreact when threatened in unanticipated ways: Hence, whistleblowers are often vilified, and their reputations and persons attacked to keep the wall of silence intact in the world of Human Rights Laundering. Practical issues I leave the reader to ponder the following questions: 1. Is there a need to investigate the potential existence of a transnational axis to undermine India, involving certain South Asian Studies scholar-activists in America, Indian NGOs and major US funding institutions, potentially with complicity or lack of knowledge of the full consequences? 2. Should there be a US Congressional hearing into the use of US taxpayer money to favor and spread one religion out of the many American religions in foreign lands? 3. Should there be a conflict-of-interest policy and code of ethics that will focus attention on 'dual use' human rights activities, and also prevent abuses of the power that givers have over receivers? Should there be restrictions against co-mingling of funds, people or other resources between secular apolitical philanthropy on the one hand, and either religious activity or political activity on the other? As in the case of airport security and in the case of policing money-laundering, the inconveniences caused by adopting measures of transparency in human rights work would be outweighed by the benefits to society. 4. Should there be voluntary disclosure by all individuals and organisations in the human rights and charity fields, concerning their transnational funding and links, such that the public and other organisations have the information to be able to make their own evaluations? 5. Are the numerous instances of US originated anti-Hinduism and anti-India scholarship merely random cases of the individual prejudices and personal bigotry of scholars, or are they a part of entrenched systemic biases?

Posted by: thalapathi Mar 17 2004, 10:42 AM

Viren, Its a 3 part series by Rajiv Malhotra on rediff. check out :

Posted by: Krishna Mar 22 2004, 10:47 PM

Always do BackUp. U have probably heard it 50,000 times and ignored it. All I'll say is learn from other people's mistake, and not your own. My PC betrayed me yesterday morning....tried everything a human can try.....but no dice. Right now I'm up due the 2nd HDD on my PC. Still my main HDD with it's data is gone, for good. So take this from an ignorant Pro biggrin.gif ....and be safe, computerwise atleast! laugh.gif Laterz! BTW. What a match! clap.gif

Posted by: Mudy Mar 22 2004, 11:15 PM

Hahaha, you are not the onlee one. Last Oct I lost my home PC HDD and along with 3 years of Gold mine. Never mind. I can bet, you will repeat this mistake again. 50,001 th time. biggrin.gif My experience.

Posted by: udayan Mar 23 2004, 11:10 AM

Guys I am pretty sure you have tried this, but anyway here goes. Make the broken HDD a slave and have the pc boot up from another known good drive with O/S installed. When you boot up just explore the old HDD and get your stuff, if it is not really toast. See if this works.

Posted by: Krishna Mar 23 2004, 01:10 PM

What if your old HDD is FAT32 and the new one (slave - broken) is NTFS?

Posted by: udayan Mar 23 2004, 01:34 PM

Bear with me on this, If I understand correctly, Is your old HDD which broke NTFS. In that case rig a new HDD to your pc. Install windows 2000 on it and format this HDD with NTFS. Boot from this HDD as master lets say and make the old broken one the slave. OTOH if your old broken HDD is FAT32 you could still do this as the new HDD from where you boot is Win 2000 which should be able to read your old FAT32 format too.

Posted by: Viren Mar 25 2004, 10:20 AM

mad.gif mad.gif's~Nobel~Prize~stolen mad.gif mad.gif

Posted by: shoaibjameel123 Apr 2 2004, 06:50 PM

I will be joining some college this year. I have applied to some. Some of which are AICTE recognized (i.e their degrees are AICTE recognized) but there are some whose degrees are not recognized. I want to do Mtech from the IIT’s. And if I get to a college whose degree is not recognized by the AICTE, will I be eligible for admission to the IIT’s Mtech programmes?

Posted by: rhytha Apr 2 2004, 11:20 PM

QUOTE(shoaibjameel123 @ Apr 3 2004, 07:20 AM)
I will be joining some college this year. I have applied to some. Some of which are AICTE recognized (i.e their degrees are AICTE recognized) but there are some whose degrees are not recognized. I want to do Mtech from the IIT’s. And if I get to a college whose degree is not recognized by the AICTE, will I be eligible for admission to the IIT’s Mtech programmes?
I think u need to get a degree from a AICTE recognised college to apply for PG in IIT. Iam not very sure about it, so plz call them up and ask. smile.gif

Posted by: Krishna Apr 2 2004, 11:38 PM

What's this AICTE?

Posted by: Mudy Apr 3 2004, 02:01 PM

South India has highest suicide rate in world LONDON, ENGLAND, April 1, 2004: Family conflicts, domestic violence, failed romances and mental illness have pushed the suicide rate of young people in southern India to the highest in the world, researchers said on Friday. Suicide accounts for one-half to three-quarters of all deaths in young women and a quarter of deaths in young men in the region. "We have identified rates of suicide that are several-fold higher than those reported anywhere in the world, especially in young women," said Dr Anuradha Bose, of the Christian Medical College in Vellore, India, in a study in The Lancet Medical Journal. There were 148 suicides per 100,000 young women in the study and 58 per 100,000 for boys, compared to the average suicide rate worldwide of 14.5. Hanging and poisoning with pesticides, which are easily available in rural areas, were the most common causes of death. "The high suicide rates emphasize the need to recognize adolescent suicide as major public health problem, with an urgent need for intervention," Bose added. Suicide is a leading cause of death in 15-19 year olds worldwide. In 2000, an estimated 815,000 young people took their own lives. It is usually more common in young men than women but Bose and his colleagues uncovered a high rate of female suicides in their study. In a commentary on the research in the journal, Wun Jung Kim and Tanvir Singh of the Medical College of Ohio in the United States said higher suicide rates among girls have also been reported in China and Singapore. They suggested that cultural and religious factors and changes in political and economic systems could be contributing factors. "One can surmise that intergenerational and gender conflicts are more intense in traditional agricultural society transforming into an egalitarian industrial society than in stable, developed countries," they said.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 3 2004, 02:03 PM

Posted by: Mudy Apr 9 2004, 12:52 PM‘Female~foeticide~widely~practised~in~Punjab’ ‘Female foeticide widely practised in Punjab’ CHANDIGARH, UNI: Punjab, which has an abysmally low child sex ratio, is headed for catastrophe if it does not check female foeticide that is widely practised across the state, experts said. All 17 districts of Punjab are among the country's 35 districts with the lowest sex ratio with Fatehgarh Sahib recording a figure as low as 754. At a state-level workshop on the issue of female foeticide, organised by Delhi-based Population Foundation of India (PFI) and the PHD Chamber of Commerce and Industry here on Thursday evening, representatives of various NGOs and government officials expressed the need to take immediate and stringent measures to control female foeticide in Punjab. In his presentation, state Census Operations Director Inderjit Singh pointed out that ten out of 17 districts in Punjab recorded a child sex ratio of below 800 girls to 1000 boys. He said the gross distortion in the ratio has created an explosive situation which was likely to have catastrophic consequences in times to come. These districts are Fatehgarh Sahib (754), Patiala (770), Kapurthala (775), Gurdaspur (775), Mansa (779), Bathinda (779), Amritsar (783), Sangrur (784), Ropar (791) and Jalandhar (797). According to Ms Reena Singh of the Population Research Centre, a Chandigarh-based organisation, the domination of males and low status of women were the two important factors that led to the preference for the male child. Social practices like dowry, neglect of girl child and atrocities on women should be curbed first, she said. Dr Deepak Grover, also from the Population Research Centre, said there was a need to empower women, especially in rural areas. He said foeticide should be considered a crime equivalent to murder and people indulging in this crime be severely punished. The PNDT (Pre-Natal Diagnostic Technology) Act, he pointed out, was not serving its purpose as people hardly came forward with complaints against those who practise foeticide. A violation of provisions of the Act can fetch imprisonment upto three years. There was a need to change the mindset of the people through the media, he added. Dr I Goyal, Director of the State Health and Family Welfare department, said the government had taken several steps to propagate the message against female foeticide through ad campaigns and documentaries and was also organising several workshops on girl child activities. Population Foundation of India executive director A R Nanda emphasised the need for advocacy on the issue of female foeticide and commitment to the cause.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 11 2004, 08:19 PM

Payback time biggrin.gif Spanish royals in US airport row The couple were due to fly on to Spain when they were searched A diplomatic spat has erupted between Spanish and US officials after staff at Miami airport insisted on screening Spain's Crown Prince and his fiancee. Crown Prince Felipe and Letizia Ortiz, and four bodyguards, were due to catch a connecting flight at Miami when they had to undergo security checks. Airport staff said the search had to be carried out after the couple failed to give the normal 72 hours notice. Miami-Dade's mayor has apologised for the "apparent disregard for protocol". The 36-year-old future king and his TV anchorwoman fiancee had flown into Miami from the Bahamas on Thursday evening, reported The Miami Herald. Before boarding their Iberia Airlines flight to Madrid, the couple and their entourage had to pass through a security check. 'Protocol breach' They were taken to an American Airlines lounge, where they were searched by three "top-notch screeners with VIP experience", said Lauren Stover, Transportation and Security Administration spokeswoman. She said the incident was sparked because the royal party had given only six hours notice instead of the standard 72 hours. "The prince and his bodyguard felt they should not be subjected to the screening, but if they do not have an escort from the State Department or the Secret Service, it is required," she added. "It is the law." Miami-Dade County Mayor Alex Penelas sent the royal family a letter of apology on the same day, calling the situation "lamentable". "The facts I have received thus far indicate an apparent disregard for protocol and disrespect of His Highness and his delegation... I have called upon our County Manager to conduct a simple investigation into this matter," he wrote. A Spanish consular official in Miami said it would be Consul General Javier Vallaure's decision whether a complaint should be filed. "We don't consider this the proper way to treat our future king," he was quoted by the Associated Press as saying. "It's a breach of protocol".

Posted by: Viren Apr 11 2004, 08:47 PM

No wonder Kerry keeps saying that these clueless nitwits are bent of widening the Atlantic. :friusty

Posted by: Mudy Apr 15 2004, 08:53 PM

Just Rs 2,000 fine for molesting 5-yr-old!! April 16, 2004 A Delhi court has sentenced a 22-year-old man to one year's Rigorous Imprisonment and ordered him to pay a fine of Rs 2,000 for molesting a 5-year-old girl. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif Additional Sessions Judge Bimla Makin found Mohammed Arif guilty of outraging the modesty of the girl on March 26, 1999 near Sarai Rohilla. He had taken the child from her house to a nearby dhobi ghat on the pretext of buying her some sweets. The court also directed the convict to pay the fine to the victim as compensation. The prosecution had examined 15 witnesses to prove its case.

Posted by: Viren Apr 15 2004, 09:22 PM

Wouldn't the right implementation of the Sharia law advocate this guy to be castrated or stoned in public? Where is Shahbuddin's outrage?

Posted by: Mudy Apr 15 2004, 10:00 PM

you will not find HRA, Roy, Bidwai, Azmi screaming for her. Low value entity.

Posted by: Viren Apr 16 2004, 07:02 AM

Mudy: Issue I have is about some people being able to pick and choose what's in their own best interest when it comes to civil, personal and criminal law. Shahbuddins and Bikharis point to Saudi laws and want India to adhere/implement the same for a select few. But when it comes to implementing those same Saudi type laws in totality for say criminal acts they go mum.

Posted by: Gargi Apr 16 2004, 09:46 AM

Shahbuddins and Bikharis point to Saudi laws and want India to adhere/implement the same for a select few. But when it comes to implementing those same Saudi type laws in totality for say criminal acts they go mum.
In Muslim law responsibility lies on female, Men are always innocent even proven guilty. In Saudi Arabia one can never find women as rape victim, only involve in infidelity. Yes for other crime they should follow Saudi law on Indian Muslims Now Shahbuddins is Cong-I member, i hope Cong-I implements muslim law in states where they are in power.

Posted by: Viren Apr 19 2004, 08:14 AM

An interesting article, bit long, is a paid subscription site (URL recycles), hence pasting in full. Admin feel free to snip/edit. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ What Sin City Can Teach Tom Ridge,1397,1562363,00.asp By Larry Barrett and Sean Gallagher The lure of quick scores has made Las Vegas the most vigilant and diligent user of advanced surveillance, identification, background-checking and security technologies. If domestic security were prosecuted as aggressively as casino security, the terrorists that took down the World Trade Center towers might well have been caught For decades, no city has attracted more dubious characters into its buildings than Las Vegas. The lure of quick scores has made Sin City the most vigilant and diligent user of advanced surveillance, identification, background-checking and security technologies. If domestic security were prosecuted as aggressively as casino security, the terrorists that took down the World Trade Center towers might well have been caught. After all, several of them were in Las Vegas as late as August 2001. Here's what Tom Ridge and counterparts still could learn. It's Aug. 13, 2001. A man of apparent Egyptian descent, calling himself Mohamed Atta checks into an Econo Lodge Motel on Las Vegas Boulevard South. That night, as the temperature cools from 105 degrees, Atta falls asleep in the U.S. city that personifies gambling, drinking, prostitution and even culinary decadence. Could any locale other than Sin City be a greater affront to a Muslim fundamentalist? This was Atta's second documented visit to Las Vegas, Nev., in three weeks. In fact, between May and August 2001, Atta and four other terrorists that the world would later come to know as attackers of the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon spent time in Las Vegas. To this day, whether Atta and his associates were at the time crafting their plan to use airplanes as gasoline-laden bombs is anyone's guess. Yet there is a tragic overhang of investigative irony. Atta, Marwan al-Shahhi, Nawaf Alhazmi, Ziad Jarrah and Hani Hanjour placed themselves in the middle of a city that already had become the perfect laboratory for developing and testing the technologies and strategies that may ultimately determine the outcome of what has come to be called the War on Terrorism. In the effort to prevent future attacks, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and other federal and local law enforcement agencies are now beginning to deploy the kinds of transactional, facial and other tracking technologies that casinos such as the MGM Grand, the Venetian, the Bellagio and the Stratosphere long have used. By combining basic information on employees and guests, such as their stated home addresses, the purchases they make, the times they visit town and the movements they make, these casinos have created enormous databases that show not only visitors' playing habits, but their criminal pasts and their connections to other visitors. All to safeguard a $70-billion-a-year gaming and resort industry. Sure, these casinos use state-of-the-art digital and analog surveillance cameras and equipment to watch the activities of patrons and employees as they move or stop in any given square foot of their property. But they also make use of seemingly innocuous sources of data, such as the card keys guests use to open their rooms or the charges they make at gift shops, to paint a picture of "non-obvious" clues that might reveal unexpected threats to their tills—and their facilities. By combining decades-old security procedures with these new tools, Las Vegas, despite being the fastest growing metropolitan area in the United States in the past dozen years, recorded in 2001 the fewest crimes per thousand residents (40.5) of any U.S. city with a population of more than 1 million residents, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. By comparison, on average, a city of that size reported 77 crimes per 1,000 residents. More than 38 million people made their trek to Vegas last year for business or pleasure, each "contributing" an average of $300 in gambling losses. But the seemingly strange confluence of entertainment and excess also makes the city a glaring neon target for terrorists, according to officials from the Nevada Commission on Homeland Security (NCHS). "This is where the bad guys come to play," says Ret. Army Colonel Jerry Bussell, chairman of the NCHS, the state agency charged with finding and implementing the latest technology and procedures needed to fight terrorism. "These [casinos] have been here for years, almost daring anyone to come and take their best shot. It makes complete sense to me and everyone else that this is the perfect place to test and develop the technology we need to fight terrorism." Indeed, those charged with increasing domestic security, whether in the United States, Spain, Indonesia or other parts of the world, would do well to study how Las Vegas has mastered the art of identifying and detaining garden-variety cheats and thugs and apply them to preventing another organized terrorist plot, according to Alan Zajic, a casino-security consultant with more than 25 years of experience. With the benefit of hindsight and three months of research, Baseline has examined how the practices that Las Vegas uses to identify cheaters could have been used by the FBI, Central Intelligence Agency and State Department to prevent most, if not all, of the 19 terrorists who took control of airplanes on 9/11 from receiving a boarding pass in the first place. Following more than 20 interviews with casino security chiefs, surveillance directors, security consultants, former FBI agents and members of the NCHS, this review will also show how technologies ranging from "non-obvious pattern recognition" to "name one other" can even today be used by DHS Secretary Tom Ridge and other federal, state and local officials to thwart future attacks. Flashback: Summer of 2001 The Econo Lodge motel on Las Vegas Boulevard where Atta stayed is a short walk from both the Stratosphere Casino Hotel & Tower, the tallest building west of the Mississippi River, and the FBI's Las Vegas headquarters. Perhaps more significantly, his motel room was also seven miles north of the headquarters of Systems Research and Development Inc. (SRD). SRD makes software that casinos have used since 1994 to spot "non-obvious" relationships within mountains of data collected on individuals. The Department of Homeland Security and other federal agencies now use the software to pursue known and suspected terrorists. According to SRD chief executive officer Jeff Jonas, if those agencies had been working with the private sector—read: "Las Vegas casinos"—three years ago, chances would be much higher that Atta would have been arrested or detained in Las Vegas, perhaps even in his Econo Lodge room. Atta, after all, was traveling with an expired tourist visa and, according to the State Department, was already on its list of suspected or known terrorists. A simple query of his passport, visa, driver's license or credit card against State Department or FBI databases would have resulted in a match. This initial match would have alerted the FBI, CIA and Las Vegas police that a known or suspected terrorist was in Las Vegas. From there, SRD's software would have begun churning through billions of lines of code in multiple databases, including telephone directories, rental-car records and airline reservations, as well as the State Department's suspected-terrorist list and the list of expired visas maintained by what was then called the Immigration and Naturalization Service, to create an immediate, up-to-the-moment profile of Atta, his whereabouts and his activities. The software also would have sent out warnings. Even something as simple as a clear image of Atta's face distributed to local law enforcement throughout the country might have been enough to save more than 3,000 lives. The software would also make connections, on its own. Anyone who ever listed a similar address, name or phone number to Atta—even anyone who had ever used "Mohamed Atta" or any similar spelling as an identity—would have been red-flagged by the software and then subsequent checks of private and public databases would have been initiated for those people. The links also are likely to have discovered, for instance, that Atta and Jarrah had visited a cybercafé near the University of Nevada in Las Vegas at the same time on the same date. As DHS and other federal and international authorities struggle to find elusive details that connect otherwise innocuous transactions and events to known threats, Las Vegas casinos identify these links every day. Had Atta, for instance, driven a rental car into the parking lot at any major casino that August evening, the license plate would have been photographed by digital cameras at the entrance and compared to a database provided by federal and local law enforcement looking for that specific vehicle. Had he arrived by taxi at the front valet entrance, another camera would have recorded an image of the taxi's license plate, number and company. If he had arrived on foot, he would have been caught on video well before he even entered the main casino. Once inside the casino, he would have been photographed continuously in every location inside the casino except for an individual guest room or a bathroom. But the casino would have date- and time-stamped images of him entering and leaving either of those places. In addition, a digital image of his face would have been captured and compared to a database of undesirables such as known card counters (known as "advantage players"), those with a proclivity for illegally manipulating slot machines, dice and cards as well as those known for stealing from casinos, guests and the public. If there was a match, he would have been detained by casino security in less than two minutes. Casino security chiefs such as the Venetian's Dave Shepherd say threats— including potential terrorists— can come in either gender, any age and any nationality. Meaning: All individuals must get equal scrutiny. Casino personnel are trained to pay attention to and question those who fit the typical terrorist profile, such as Middle Eastern origin, whenever the nation's alert status is elevated. Yet now, each casino also regularly checks bags, laptops and parcels with X-rays and bomb- sniffing dogs. Bellhops ask people who are dropping off bags for their names and what hotel they're staying at. Though gambling is frowned upon in the Muslim community, it's possible Atta might have indulged anyway. Any game-playing would have been captured on surveillance cameras. Had he purchased or cashed in more than $1,000 in chips at any time, he would have been subjected to a clandestine investigation designed to catch money launderers. In either scenario, Atta would have been required to produce two pieces of identification that would have been added to a running dossier managed by hotel security. Had he been enthusiastic enough to get himself a casino's equivalent of a frequent-flyer account, known as a Player Card, his activities at the tables and the times he was there would have been recorded in great detail. In effect, a step-by-step journal of his movements would have been kept. While it may be unlikely Atta or any other terrorists visiting Vegas would have bothered with a Player's Card, FBI investigations into the 9/11 attacks revealed that at least two of the 19 terrorists used a frequent-flyer number when booking their flights for the morning of September 11, 2001. But avoiding use of a Player's Card doesn't mean a player avoids detection. If even an amateur gambler wins more than $600 on a one-armed bandit—the traditional type of slot machine—that person has to produce two legitimate forms of identification before receiving the payout. Even out of luck is not out of sight. If Atta had ordered a gin-and-tonic from a cocktail waitress, that information would be available to investigators. Had he sauntered over to a restaurant for a bite to eat, details on the purchase of food would be available. If he tipped, the amount would be known. If he used cash, the serial number of the bill would be recorded. Inside the room, the time, number dialed and duration of every phone call is automatically recorded for billing purposes. Even "free" local calls are noted. Room-service orders and movie choices also are noted, through the billing system. All pretty innocent? Consider this: Today, if another Atta were to check into the Bellagio, both casino and federal officials would know instantly if he arrived, for example, in a white 2003 Ford Escort with Nevada license-plate number THF456 rented from Hertz and parked it in the main lot on the third floor at 11:22 p.m. They would know if he checked a black duffel bag at the front desk at 11:30 p.m. under the name "Hakim." They would know if he spent 17 minutes on the gaming floor and if he lost $7.50 in quarters at slot machine number 1845. They'd know he used Elevator 2 at 11:47 p.m. to get to the 19th floor where he twice failed to properly insert his key card into the door of room 19-257. They'd know he made local phone calls at 12:06 a.m. and 12:09 a.m., respectively, to the Olympic Gardens and Glitter Gulch strip clubs, and that he made an international long-distance call at 12:14 a.m. to Munich that lasted 27 minutes. They could see he left at 1:05 a.m. wearing the same blue polo shirt and khaki slacks and used Elevator 2 to return to the casino floor. And that he walked directly to the taxi stand, where he departed at 1:11 a.m. Without his black duffel bag. Casinos spare no expense in protecting their guests, their employees and, most important, their cash from nefarious characters. A new 110,000-square-foot casino in Las Vegas today will spend at least $10 million on security and surveillance technology alone, according to Jerry Keller, security director at Wynn Las Vegas, a $2.4 billion hotel/ casino that will open next year. That figure does not include the salaries and equipment that will be invested for a full-time security staff of more than 200. But in 2001, the State Department, FBI and CIA could not make connections between the mountains of data they had and what was happening out on the streets. They had lists of suspected terrorists and lists of foreign visitors still in the U.S. on expired visas, but they didn't have the ability to connect this information with the tiny clues left by Atta and others in the years, months, days and even hours leading up to 9/11. Now, the technologies exist to make those connections. And they are working, around the clock, in Las Vegas. Tom Ridge and others charged with protecting the homeland would be smart to watch closely, mimic the tracking techniques to identify threats before they get out of hand—and tap into the expertise that Las Vegas uses to store and analyze data. "Most every security chief in Las Vegas is either a former FBI agent or retired military," says Joe McDonald, a consultant for ADT Inc., a provider of security systems to casinos. (See Dossier, Case 085, September 2003, p. 60.) "The differences are huge," McDonald says. "In this industry, you're given a generous budget to solve the problem and the tools to share and collect the information you need. It's a huge advantage and a philosophy that Washington needs to embrace." Here is a rundown of the current state of information systems deployed in Las Vegas—and how they can be employed for domestic security. "Non-obvious relationship awareness" (NORA) software probes databases in any language, searching for obscure matches between relevant information. Anonymized data (ANNA) software uses the same technology to investigate data that has been encrypted. SRD's patented technology allows users to discern obvious and so-called "non-obvious" relationships between data sets in multiple databases. This view can help identify connections that can span more than 30 degrees of separation. One degree of separation would be two people who work at the same casino who also listed the same address on their resumes. The second degree might be finding out that a third-party vendor providing cards to the casino attended the same high school as one of those two employees. The third degree might be discovering that all three of these individuals maintain checking accounts at the same bank. In the case of Atta, NORA would have identified that he at one point shared a home address with two other 9/11 terrorists, Khalid Al-Midhar and Salem Alhazmi. The software instantly triggers a "trip wire" that flags high-risk individuals—from casino cheats to known terrorists—and then compares what it knows about them with information in airline-reservation, passport and other databases. The CIA, FBI and DHS all have started to deploy NORA in the past two years. Such software allows organizations to make "critical conections that otherwise would never have materialized,'' says Shepherd at the Venetian. SRD chief executive Jonas says that, had the government been using NORA prior to 9/11, most, if not all, of the terrorists involved in those attacks could have been captured long before they boarded those flights. He says a list of names supplied by the State Department listing foreign nationals still in the U.S. on expired visas could have been used to identify anyone of a similar name making an airline reservation or taking a room for a night at an Econo Lodge. "There's so much information out there available, but making sense of it and finding links between people, locations and events is the tricky part," Jonas says. Soon, the government and casinos—along with virtually every other industry that tracks and records large volumes of data—will have another tool from SRD that takes information gathering and relationship awareness to a whole new level. ANNA, an offshoot of NORA, is in its final testing stages right now. This "double-blinding" technique of encryption makes it possible for investigators to search databases without seeing the names, addresses and other information they're picking through. With ANNA, owners of data would send data to a third party in a conventionally encrypted form. That third party would act as an independent holder of the data, using SRD's software to index its contents and, at same time, apply a second level of encryption that makes it impossible to read or restore the data to its original form. This second level of encryption is what's known as a "one-way" hashing algorithm. An investigator can then pose queries to this hashed set of numbers and letters. But the person or organization making the queries can't see or figure out the original names, addresses or information that is contained in the scrambled data. Then, if the investigators' queries produce matches in two separate databases—such as, say, every physics student enrolled in the past 10 years at any U.S. university and anyone granted a temporary visa from Saudi Arabia in the past 10 years—they can then go back to the original sources and ask for the specific information underlying those matches. That underlines the importance of the third party, which will have to "unblind" those numbers and letters to their original form so the investigating party can ask the source for information on a specific person, date and locale. At the same time, it makes it possible for a variety of investigating organizations to share data without exposing it in any way. This is crucial to the FBI, CIA and other government agencies. Because the hashed data cannot be reconstructed into its original form, the information cannot be compromised, sold or accidentally transmitted to the very organizations they are pursuing. "We could one-way hash the list of all the Al Queda terrorists the State Department has and send an e-mail to Osama bin Laden and he wouldn't be able to decipher it," Jonas says. "That's the beauty of the software. It allows you to find matches of data that otherwise means nothing to anyone." How This Applies to Domestic Security: Homeland Security and FBI investigators using NORA and ANNA can now compare lists of suspected terrorists and other criminals on the lam to, for example, a database containing the names and addresses of anyone who has purchased a firearm in Florida or Oregon or, for that matter, the entire U.S. without compromising the names and addresses of every gun owner. Requests for data can be precise. Collaboration Techniques Casino operators use surveillance cameras, facial-recognition software, transaction-tracking systems and other software to create profiles of suspected cheaters and then distribute that information electronically between themselves, around the clock. John Horton, director of security at the Stardust Resort and Casino, says using computer systems to share information, including physical descriptions, criminal history and the names of known associates of suspected crooks, scam artists and even terrorists has been standard operating procedure in Las Vegas for more than 10 years. "We take it seriously because this is a one-economy town," Horton says. "We have to train our staff to understand what to look for, who to look at and where to look. We take great pride in sharing our problems and successes with each other without any reservations." Most casinos use private investigators in conjunction with their own facial-recognition software systems to keep out would-be cheats as well as fugitives on the lam. Using a wireless network, a casino such as the MGM Grand can transmit a digital image taken inside the casino of a suspected cheat or crook to an investigator working from a laptop down the street or 6,000 miles away in the Caribbean. This can happen several times a day. These same images are sent, either electronically through a wireless network or simply faxed, to all the Las Vegas casinos as well as the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department and the local FBI branch. The information also travels in the other direction: A daily report detailing new names and descriptions of suspected terrorists or targets from the NCHS and the FBI are faxed or e-mailed each day to the security chiefs at all the major Las Vegas casinos. "We have to have a free flow of information," Horton says. "One place might be getting hit by a specific group of criminals and although we haven't seen them yet, we need to know who to look for and what actions they're taking to prevent them from doing it to us." The exchange of information doesn't end with the casinos. At least one FBI field agent is assigned to each casino in Las Vegas. This was originally intended to help investigate organized-crime activity and money laundering but has been expanded to terrorism investigations. The field agent is responsible for meeting with that casino's security chief at least once a week. While casinos use a wireless network to exchange data, the FBI is still more than a year behind schedule in revamping its information systems. It was only in March 2003 that all 622 FBI offices were all finally connected to a secure, wired Ethernet connection. (See "Under the Gun," Case 088, September 2003.) Each week, FBI field agents in Las Vegas create a report that serves as something of a "Vegas primer," complete with arrests, unusual behavior reports and detailed reports of what technology and surveillance techniques casinos are using. This information is then passed on to supervisors at the national level. "Very few if any cities have the level of communication and input with the FBI that Vegas enjoys," Horton says. "That's because of the inherent [threat] of crime in the casinos and the sophisticated technology [we] use." How This Applies to Domestic Security: In February, DHS Secretary Ridge unveiled a new, unified national emergency communications system and database that will provide a secure, real-time connection between law-enforcement agencies in all 50 states. By July, a nationwide video conferencing system will allow a police chief in Nashville, for example, to immediately and simultaneously share photographs and data collected during investigations of suspicious tractor-trailer sales with his colleagues in Atlanta, Charlotte and Houston. Customer Tracking Loyalty cards, facial images, and even radio-frequency tracking tags built into gaming tables and chips allow casinos to analyze their customers' every move. Casinos are the ultimate practitioners of customer- relationship management. The more data they can capture about how their customers gamble—and how much—the more likely they are to keep them coming back for more. "Comps"—complimentary meals, room upgrades and even free nights in luxury suites—are used to lure high-end customers back again and again, for the efficient removal of their remaining cash. The gaming industry's "player card" systems—such as the Caesars Entertainment "Connection Card"—tie together transaction information gathered everywhere from the casino floor to food service to guest rooms on the spending and gambling habits of repeat customers, across all of their properties. "Casinos with loyalty programs certainly have amazing amounts of analysis of the success patterns for particular players," says Jerry Brady, chief technology officer of Guardent, a security firm in Waltham, Mass. "They can choose whales [gamblers with big bankrolls] carefully—the ones that are least damaging to their organization—for comps." The big-time gamblers who consistently leave their money behind at the tables get better treatment, while those that have a tendency to win too much might not see much of anything—and might even be asked to leave. Recently, casinos have gained the ability to track customer behaviors even more minutely. They record players' movements on the casino floor, the time spent at slot machines and blackjack tables, and even individual bets. They do this by tying their customer- and casino-management systems to the same facial-recognition technology used to watch for "bad guys." Casinos are pushing providers of card tables and slot machines to put cameras in place that can snap shots of every player that visits. "If you sit at a slot machine, you're already the perfect distance away for a facial-recognition shot," says Jim Pepin, vice president of Biometrica Systems, a unit of identification systems maker Viisage of Littleton, Mass. Even betting chips are no longer inert. Casinos are starting to deploy chips with embedded radio-frequency identification (RFID) tags in them. The casino can monitor betting patterns and detect attempts to cheat—such as moving chips after all bets have been placed. How This Applies to Domestic Security: Biometric identification has wide application in ports of transit, from air to sea to rail. Radio tags embedded in "smart" passports could lead to security checks throughout a terminal, not just at the Customs stand. States might also apply the technology to driver's licenses. Employee Monitoring From readings of employees' hands, eyes or other features to trackable tags on security guards to deep searches of databases, Las Vegas casinos use both their own intelligence and analytical software to check the backgrounds and activities of current and future employees. "People change and their circumstances change all the time," says Shepherd, the security director at the Venetian. "It's not enough to do a battery of background or credit checks on an employee before you hire them. You have to know what's going on with them right now and six months from now." Casinos use databases that include the names of suspected terrorists, felons, money launderers and child molesters provided by the FBI, private investigators and local law- enforcement agencies to screen employees throughout their tenure. They also apply NORA software, for unexpected clues. It's not unusual, for example, for a casino to use NORA to discover a blackjack dealer who recently filed for bankruptcy protection or a cashier who was arrested for possessing narcotics an hour after finishing his shift by collecting arrest information from the Las Vegas Metro Police Department. If the end-of-the-shift count at the cashier cage shows $200 is missing or if players appear to win at a disproportionate rate during a particular dealer's shift, the investigation might begin with those wrestling with off-duty demons. These details, including any changes in residence or marital status, are continually updated on a casino employee's security profile. Shepherd says the Venetian also plans to eventually use tags that can be read by radio waves to track security officers and equipment throughout the casino, rather than rely solely on video surveillance and radio communication. At the north end of the Las Vegas strip stands the Stratosphere Casino Hotel & Tower. It features a 1,149-foot observation tower the hotel claims is "the tallest building west of the Mississippi River." Perhaps that was one attraction for Mohamed Atta and four other terrorists when they stayed in a hotel across the street a few months before they attacked New York's tallest buildings, the towers of the World Trade Center. But if that was enough of an attraction that they actually entered the Stratosphere, Atta and his cohorts would certainly have been caught on camera. If the hotel had been told to watch out for individuals that looked like any of the five, they likely would have been noticed as they wandered onto the casino floor. That's because the Stratosphere has been using facial-recognition software to monitor its casino operations for more than 5 years. Facial-recognition software mathematically measures features such as the distance between eyes or the structure of a cheekbone to compare a face to stored images. The Stratosphere figures its $7,000 system paid for itself in its first month of operation. But that's hard to prove, says Roger Williams, a former member of a team of "card counters"—gamblers who use statistical methods to beat the house at blackjack. "The truth is that there is no way to audit these systems to see if they are really performing," Williams says. "And both the casinos and the companies selling them have a large incentive to lie about their effectiveness." Card counting isn't illegal, but casinos have the right to keep gamblers employing the technique from playing or to eject them from the premises. So Williams, the members of his team and their leader, known as "Mr. X.," keep a low profile when visiting Vegas. The key, according to Williams, "is to not be noticed. Once you are noticed, you are toast; it doesn't matter whether they have a biometric ID [of you] or not." To that end, Williams says "X" never stays at one casino for too long, and changes his appearance regularly to avoid being recognized by casino employees. "When he does come back to a place after a few weeks or months, he has different hair, clothes, et cetera. The key is to be just another businessman on vacation. Vacations don't last long, so neither does X's play in a particular guise," Williams says. Facial-recognition systems are designed to see through disguises such as the ones X employs. Indeed, the Stratosphere believes it has saved $492,000 in losses each year that its system for recognizing faces has been in operation, says Derk Boss, its surveillance director. The casino also saves $44,000 each year in labor costs that otherwise would have gone to checking out the identities of players. All for a one-time cost of $7,000 and a few hundred dollars a year to subscribe to database and software updates and an Internet service that connects Stratosphere to the surveillance rooms at over 170 other hotels. The Stratosphere uses a collection of software called Visual Casino from Biometrica Systems, the Las Vegas-based subsidiary of Viisage (see Dossier, p. 54). The software components compare images captured from casino surveillance video against a set of "mug book" databases and offer a selection of possible matches. "The software doesn't give an 'exact match,'" says Biometrica's Pepin. "It brings up the most likely matches, ranked from highest to lowest, in sets of nine." Visual Casino uses two sources of data for facial recognition: a CD-ROM database from Biometrica called Casino Visual Identification; and an in-house database built from the casino's own intelligence gathering, using the same tools and formats as the visual database. Each entry in these databases includes known associates, a collection of images of the individual (especially if he or she is known to use disguises) and a description of their modus operandi. But the matches that the Stratosphere gets from its software are only as good as the people using it. According to Greg Shanton, the chief technology officer and security director for system integrator American Management Systems' security group, computers alone aren't enough. "You have to have trained operators making the decisions," he says. How This Applies to Domestic Security: Facial recognition currently is being used only at a handful of airports, only at security checkpoints and generally by lightly trained Transportation Security agents. If casinos' practices were followed, images would be taken at check-in, while would-be passengers obtain boarding passes and check luggage. This would give surveillance agents more time to match faces with known identities as well as to check those identities against the driver's license and credit card presented by each passenger—and crosscheck with watch lists and other databases. Shared Surveillance Using network-based alerts, wireless networks and fax-modems tied into surveillance-video systems, casinos can get pictures of potential threats into the hands of people who can act on them. Mr. X and his team of card counters don't get caught often. But when they do get caught, it usually isn't because of facial recognition, or even because of the Griffin shared database most casinos have subscribed to for nearly a decade. Instead, it's because of an alert sent from another casino, complete with pictures of their faces. "When [our team was] less careful, especially about team members being seen together," Williams says, "they occasionally got burnt by information sharing, not so much from mega-services like Griffin as from faxes sent between cooperating casinos. Being listed in Griffin since 1996 or so has only been a minor nuisance by comparison." Fax machines are now on the low-tech end of an informal surveillance data-sharing network built up between casinos. More than 150 casinos worldwide have joined a data-sharing network that Biometrica manages, called the Surveillance Information Network, or SIN. For about $75 a month, according to Pepin, agents of these casinos can use their computer keyboards to retrieve the latest intelligence on worrisome guests from other casinos, and send out queries about suspicious individuals. When a member of Derk Boss' team in the surveillance room at Stratosphere can't identify a suspicious patron, for example, he can broadcast the customer's image out over SIN with a request for information from approximately 30 different casino surveillance rooms in Vegas and another 120 worldwide. Additionally, records and images of suspected cheats can be broadcast as well, arming other hotels with information they can add to their own databases and distribute to game watchers on the casino floor. Pepin points to a forger found in a SIN report. "When this guy leaves the casino, he's not on his way to church," Pepin says. "He's probably going to go someplace else on the Strip." In addition to sharing information instantly, each of Las Vegas' casinos puts what it finds into the hands of its own army: security guards, pit bosses, cheat spotters and investigators moving about in cars, according to Brady of Guardent. "For 20 years now, they've had mobile networks of former card counters driving around with images of potential cheaters," says Brady. "Their [alert system] has been much more successful than even the FBI's 'America's Most Wanted.'" Instead of giant "mug books" or fax printouts, these front-line eyes now peer into digital assistants they hold in their hands, as well as networked computers at gaming tables and laptop computers they can take anywhere. All of these devices can be sent surveillance data from SIN—or images grabbed from the casino's own cameras—for immediate response to a threat over the casino's own secure wireless network. How This Applies to Domestic Security: Attacks happen in the blink of an eye. "Situational" information is exactly what the Department of Homeland Security wants to collect and immediately relay. In February, DHS announced the expansion of the Joint Regional Information Exchange System (JRIES), an ad-hoc network for sharing sensitive but unclassified threat information between state, local and federal agencies. This exchange system is based partially on collaboration software from Groove Networks and is being developed under the direction of Ed Manavian, chief of the criminal intelligence bureau of the California Department of Justice. Following the Money Casinos use software and surveillance techniques to identify unusual or illegal transactions. The aim: root out suspected money launderers or terrorists. When Congress passed the USA Patriot Act in 2001, giving law enforcers greater access to medical, library, student and other records, casinos were among the first businesses affected. The legislation charged the Financial Crime Enforcement Center (FinCEN), a 200-employee division of the Treasury Department, with collecting information from financial institutions and casinos that might lead to the uncovering of money-laundering operations. Money launderers have long viewed Las Vegas casinos, which exchange chips for cash, as a handy place to "wash" drug money or other illicitly obtained funds. As a result, every cashier cage or gambling table with chips in play must have at least one camera dedicated to it. Most tables and every cashier cage actually have several cameras recording transactions, 24 hours a day. Now, each establishment must file what's known as a Suspicious Activity Report by Casinos (SARC) to the Treasury Department every time a patron completes a cash transaction of more than $5,000. Moreover, casinos are obligated to fill out a SARC if a person makes multiple cash transactions that total $5,000 in any single day. Recording software provides details on transactions and bets. The SARC reports are supposed to be kept secret—from the individual. That means the casino has the responsibility to find out as much information about the person conducting the transaction and share it with law-enforcement agencies, but do so without alerting the person in question. Even if no law is broken, information collected by cashiers and recorded by surveillance cameras becomes part of a new file. Casino security chiefs submit a report to the Treasury Department detailing all activities they witnessed during the person's visit. They may also provide photographs of the person, information on how long that person stayed in the casino and even whether the person met or was accompanied by anyone else. How This Applies to Domestic Security: Businesses that cash payroll checks, sell money orders and trade in cashier's checks could use the same camera and profiling techniques to comply with the Patriot Act. Domestic agents would be notified of individuals who traffic in money orders or payroll checks of substantial value over a certain period of time. Transaction details and images could serve as a starting point for more-detailed investigation by the FBI and DHS. Digital Video The advent of digital means of capturing moving images gives casinos the ability to record almost unlimited views of what goes on inside (or even outside) their walls every day. Mining software then can search and analyze the images intelligently. Even when "Mr. X" or members of his team aren't caught winning big, casinos may spot his actions hours or days later, while reviewing digital files. Casinos typically keep seven days' worth of video in active memory on computer systems for immediate analysis—and longer, in more permanent storage, for legal records. Thought Police would love a modern Las Vegas casino, monitored as it is by thousands of cameras—in every hallway, elevator, and public space, aside from bathrooms and guest rooms. A single poker table might have as many as 60 cameras trained on it. Walk through one of the unmarked doors off the casino floor at the MGM Grand, and up a few flights of stairs, and you'll find yourself in a scene seemingly out of George Orwell's "1984"—a dimly-lit, cluttered space filled with video screens. This is the MGM's gaming-surveillance room, from which Ron Buono, executive director of surveillance and his crew watch the feed from the hundreds of cameras that stud the casino's ceiling. You can't scratch your nose near a gaming table at MGM without having it recorded on one of the 900 videotape recorders mounted in racks in a room across the hall. Nine hundred recorders means 900 tape changes every eight hours. To keep seven days of tape on record, Buono's staff must manage nearly 19,000 tapes—and that's just active ones. The days of videotape recorders are numbered. In a smaller rack in the same room is their replacement: a digital video-recording system from American Dynamics, a San Diego subsidiary of Tyco International. Digital video is revolutionizing surveillance, making it easier to use software to control camera coverage and to search through hours of video—all without ever swapping a VHS tape. (See Dossier, September 2003.) Digital video does more for Buono than cut down on tape swapping—it makes it easier to program video systems to alert operators to unusual activity, provides better facial images and reduces time required to find specific frames of video from hours to seconds. It also gives regulators the ability to check in remotely on any of the MGM's 1,400 cameras. In its private gaming rooms, the MGM Grand has been testing a small system from American Dynamics, in conjunction with the Nevada Gaming Commission. The system stores video images on a disk drive, while also transmitting them directly to the gaming commission. While the cost of connecting one video stream to a digital-recording port is about $1,000—ten times the cost of an analog VCR—the total cost of ownership is tiny in comparison. Buono says the savings in labor and reduced replacement cost alone will quickly pay for the difference. The only limit is disk space, which has grown increasingly inexpensive. Meanwhile, every minute of activity captured by every camera can be searched for a specific event. Detail can be critical. A system such as this can search hundreds of hours of video for changes in a small area of its field of view—a stack of chips, for example, or someone surreptitiously pocketing those chips . This search now takes minutes, where searching tape took hours. "You can narrow down the search to a specific time frame, and look for changes in areas down to a pixel," says Wayne Dorris, an American Dynamics sales engineer serving the MGM Grand. That's a feature that's even more important to casino surveillance in many respects than facial recognition. According to Buono, about 95% of the time a fraud occurs, it involves an employee or a former employee—either because they made a mistake in procedure, or because they were colluding with a gambler to get a cut of his winnings. How This Applies to Domestic Security: Tom Ridge's homeland-security operations could use digital-video systems to monitor train platforms and other remote locations, spotting unusual activity and alerting responders quickly to suspicious activity—such as a person placing an object on the tracks or touching overhead wires. Even busy train, plane and bus stations could benefit. Until a fatal shooting incident on July 4, 2002, Los Angeles International Airport had just five surveillance cameras. All this technology and surveillance hasn't stopped hundreds of thousands of leisure gamblers from visiting Las Vegas casinos every week. Sure, they most likely have no inkling how much information on their behavior and movements is being recorded. But there is no organized movement that shows they care. They recognize the stakes, financially speaking, are high. Surveillance is either accepted or ignored. "There are cameras and people watching everything that happens on a casino property," says Nevada homeland security chairman Bussell. "No place has the dedication and technology to police its people and property like a casino. But that doesn't stop people from coming here in droves. That's the beauty of it and that's what the [DHS] at all levels is just starting to see." With the coordinated train blasts in Madrid following the destruction of the twin towers by 911 days, there's a lesson to Tom Ridge and other domestic-security chief executives: Public places remain appealing targets for terrorists, and these same technologies and processes can be applied throughout the country without necessarily impeding commerce or the freedom to move about that make public places appealing in the first place.

Posted by: rajesh_g Apr 19 2004, 09:52 AM

Very cool article, Viren. Thanks.

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Apr 19 2004, 04:08 PM

PLEASE do not start a new thread unless warranted. Else find the appropriate thread that is already there and post your message there. If not all new posts will be merged.

Posted by: Reggie Apr 22 2004, 12:41 PM

Attention Rahul Mehta from BR. It seems the BR axe has finally fallen on you - the ONE person who relentlessly pursues the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Someday, I would like to meet you in person in India. For now, can you ack my msg., and let's see if we can exchange emails. Thanks. Reggie

Posted by: Viren Apr 22 2004, 07:45 PM

Don't remember RM posting here Reggie. I think he has his own website which might have his email.

Posted by: baloo100 Apr 26 2004, 02:41 PM

Has anyone got information on a company called Navik Technologies PVT Ltd I am trying to do some POST due dilligence on a company called From three sources now I have learned that they are not a reliable company however have already paid them a lot of money for a project to be developed. The name of the directors are Vikrant Sandal and K J Sandal. They also operate a few other companies named Navik ISP PVT Ltd Navik Embedded PVT Ltd Navik Navik Group PVT Ltd The company is based in Chandigarh India. Navikembedded Navikisp Naviktechnologies Navikgroup Navik embedded Navik isp Navik Technologies Navik Navik Group Vikrant Sandal KJ Sandal They claim to be Software Developers in Chandigarh India and Web Designers Chandigarh India. They also claim to be the cheapest and best outsource software and isp or host companies for Software Development for Chandigarh in India. They have taken a lot of money from me and not delivered any software, source code or documentation as promised and paid for. They don't answer my emails. I am sure I am not the only one they have done this to. The directors are father and son who live at Lane 1, Krishna Avenue Opp. Civil Hospital Dasuya District, Hoshiarpur (Pb.) 144205 Is there anyone out there who can help by giving me information about them as they are taking money off people for work and not delivering. Any help would be appreciated. Please change your handle to conform with username guidelines. Please put all such queries in the Misc Folder -Admin

Posted by: varava Apr 27 2004, 05:30 PM

Please write your thoughts to BJP,RSS and VHP about their weak elections campaign and mullah sucking by Vajpayee and Advani. This is a very important thing to do to defeat these pseudo-secularists. Admin: Please don't create thread for some note, Use exisiting thread.

Posted by: Krishna Apr 29 2004, 10:45 PM

Hoping to pass - at 35th attempt

A 68-year-old man is preparing to take his secondary school exam in India - for the 35th time. Shyoram Yadav, from the village of Tasing in Rajasthan, has been trying to pass the exam since 1969. He has vowed to remain unmarried until he does. "Education is everything in life," Mr Yadav told BBC World Service's Outlook programme. "Education rules the world: education is supreme even among your own brothers, your own society, your government, and abroad." Tripped up So far, Mr Yadav has failed a different subject each year. He says that when he attempts to improve on a failed exam the following year, another subject trips him up. Clad in traditional Indian dress, he walks about three kilometres from his village to Tasing's secondary school every day. Vice-principal Devi Singh Yadav says that when he first met Shyoram in 1999, he thought he was a guardian of one of the children. "Mr Shyoram was walking quickly towards the exam room and a few children were also on their way there," he recalled. "I stopped him and said only children would be allowed in, not parents, but to my surprise Shyoram told me he was an examinee himself. "I did not believe him and asked him to produce his admission letter. When he showed me the letter, all the school staff gathered around and it became a major issue for us to discuss." Hopeful villagers Mr Yadav has been a regular examinee at the school since that day five years ago. Everyone in the education department in his district knows him because he has appeared at every exam centre around Alwar. Mr Yadav's fellow villagers are hopeful he will pass this year. "It was his wish to pass the grade 10 exam and then to get married, but so far God has not favoured him," Hanuman Goyal, also from Tasing, who took the same exam as Mr Yadav some years ago, told Outlook. "He has attempted the exam 33 or 34 times. Let us see whether his wish will be granted this time." However, as time wears on things become harder for Mr Yadav. At the age of 68, he now suffers from a hearing problem. However, he remains determined to achieve his goal. Lekhraj, an old learning colleague who took exams with Mr Yadav in 1972, praises his dedication. "He wants to pass the exam on his own. He doesn't want help from anyone and he'd never copy anyone else's work," he says. "That's why we respect him."
Maybe a lot of people would make fun of this gentleman (I would have done it myself a few years back,) but I'm proud to say I admire him. I admire him, his goal, his persistence and his love for education. I'm proud to come from a country which produces people like these, who just don't know how to give up. More power to Mr. Yadav, and may his dreams get fulfilled this year. specool.gif

Posted by: Mudy May 2 2004, 05:57 PM

"Pictures of IRAQ war" There are some gruesome ones but they are also the kind of pictures we are rarely shown. there are 4 pages.

Posted by: ramana May 6 2004, 01:52 PM

Addressed to HH. I was reading a book of Martin Hedigger's essays and came acroos his magnum opus "Being and Time" where he examines Aristotle's metaphysics. What I would like to know from you as you are well read in Sanskrit, is are there any critical examinations of Aristotle from an upanishadic view point? I feel that he is bordering on the Upanishadic thought but does not express it.

Posted by: Viren May 7 2004, 07:38 AM

Will India get back Shivaji's sword ? UK-based Krishna Gamre is in India to muster support and evidence in his endeavour to get Shivaji's Bhavani Talwar, which is a part of the personal collection of the Queen of England. Founder of the Ambedkar Centenary Trust (London), Gamre feels the sword, which is under the Royal Collection Enterprises, London, must return to India. Armed with a photo of the sword, he is busy meeting historians, experts and government officials. In an interview with Sunday Mid Day, Gamre claims a south India- based businessman (he didn't name him) is ready to finance him though `none of Shivaji's so-called followers have come forward with any help.' Excerpts from an interview: What proof do you have that Shivaji's Bhawani Talwar is at the Royal Collection Enterprises? From Lokmanya Tilak to Rabindranath Tagore and former Maharashtra chief minister A R Antulay, all have appealed and tried to bring back Shivaji's Bhavani Talwar, which is a part of the personal collection of the Queen of England. There is no denying the fact that the sword is indeed Shivaji's Bhavani Talwar. My primary aim is to get concrete evidence which the Britishers will find difficult to deny. What is the stand of the Royal Collection Enterprises? They maintain that `responsible scholarly opinion in India and Britain has ruled out the possibility that the sword has got anything to do with the sacred sword of Shivaji.' I want to ask a simple question: Whose sword is it? They must return the sword. How did you manage to get the photo of the sword? Shri Bhagwati Panchal, of Gujarat's Bhagwati Shree Meladi Maa Trust, which has a presence in UK, was allowed to view and take photographs of the sword in 2000. My initial research after looking at the photo proved it is Shivaji's Bhavani sword. However, they refused to allow me and some other experts to view the sword when I requested them last year. They describe the sword as `Indian sabre presented to King Edward VII by the Maharajah of Kolapore'. It is ridiculous. How has been the response for the cause? I have contacted R R Patil, Maharashtra Home Minister, and had a meeting with the state culture secretary. I want to document all the historical evidence and am meeting historians and experts for the same. I have also sought an appointment with Udayan Raje Bhosale (Shivaji's descendant) and will meet him in the next few days. A South Indian businessman has come forward to help me, though none of Shivaji's so-called followers have taken any interest. If the government approaches the Royal Collection Enterprises with all the evidence, it will carry more weight. May 2 2004

Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha May 7 2004, 04:06 PM

QUOTE(ramana @ May 6 2004, 03:52 PM)
Addressed to HH. I was reading a book of Martin Hedigger's essays and came acroos his magnum opus "Being and Time" where he examines Aristotle's metaphysics. What I would like to know from you as you are well read in Sanskrit, is are there any critical examinations of Aristotle from an upanishadic view point? I feel that he is bordering on the Upanishadic thought but does not express it.
Ramana, could you please email me at aravind I will try to get back to you in greater detail on this topic this week-end. I generally agree with the observation you make. The connections between greek and upaniShadic thought are considerable. You may want to also look at McEvilley's book "the shape of ancient thought". Although Mespotocentric in bias, it has food for thought in this direction.

Posted by: Mudy May 13 2004, 08:40 PM

Very graphic picture **** IMAGES **** American Shown Murdered on Website

Posted by: Sudhir May 14 2004, 01:16 PM

The Vatican (news - web sites) warned Catholic women on Friday to think hard before marrying a Muslim
ohmy.gif Let's all urge our secular Christian Prime Minister-elect to use her good office and all the Italo-Roman Christian connections to exert pressure on the Vatican who's promoting communalism. How can the head of the nation with the second largest Muslim population in this world tolerate this bigotry against Muslims? It's an outrage.

Posted by: narayanan May 17 2004, 06:24 PM

Arre Kaisa Phorum hai yeh, bhere there ish no Ashtrology Thread onlee? thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif HOT NEWS!! tv_feliz.gif

Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 16:04:17 -0400 From: Deccan Chronicle Subject: Royal astronomer finds astrology scientific - Deccan Chronicle on the web Deccan Chronicle on the web Royal astronomer finds astrology scientific London, May 16: Dismissed for years as a pseudo-science, astrology has found a surprise supporter in one of Britain’s well-known scientists. Dr Percy Seymour, a member of the UK’s Royal Astronomical Society has reopened the debate with a provocative book claiming movements of the sun, stars and planets can influence the brains of unborn children in measurable ways. Dr Seymour is a former principal lecturer in Astronomy and Astrophysics at Plymouth Unive-rsity who has been a researcher at the Royal Obs-ervatory in Greenwich. Wh-ile stressing he has no time for star-sign horoscopes, he does believe human brain development may be affected by the Earth’s magnetic field, especially during growth in the womb. In his book, The Scientific Proof of Astrology, he suggests that the Earth’s magnetic field is affected by interactions with those of the sun and the moon. Other planets such as Jupiter, Mars and Venus also play a part because their magnetic fields affect solar magnetism. Dr Seymour said: “It means the whole solar system is playing a symphony on the Earth’s magnetic field. We are all genetically tuned to receive a different set of melodies from this symphony.” His claims will infuriate other astronomers. They have suffered the humiliation of seeing astrology rising in popularity with top astrologers’ earnings surging beyond those of even the most eminent of researchers. Among the most outspoken figures are Sir Martin Rees, the Astronomer Royal, and Professor Stephen Hawking. Rees has described astrology as “absurd,” adding: “There is no place for astrology in our scientific view of the world; moreover its predictive claims cannot stand any critical scrutiny.” Seth Shostak, an American astronomer, also described Seymour’s theory as “nonsensical.” He pointed out that even though large planets like Jupiter had magnetic and gravitational fields far greater than the Earth’s, they were diluted by distance. “Jupiter’s magnetic field is about a trillion times weaker than the Earth’s,” he said. “You would experience a stronger field from your washing machine.” Hawking, professor of mathematics at Cambridge, has said that astrology beca-me impossible as soon as scientists found that the Earth was not the centre of the universe, an idea on which astrology was founded. However, Richard Dawkins, professor for the public understanding of science at Oxford, said that although he had not read the book Seymour’s ideas sounded interesting. Astrologers were delighted. Russell Grant, the astrologer, said: “At last someone is not just saying: ‘It’s a load of poppycock.’
b_cowboy.gif guitar.gif b_evil.gif Graduate

Posted by: Mudy May 17 2004, 06:31 PM

n3.gif, Vedic Astrology purpose was something else, now a days it is used more for mundane purpose. It is very interesting, scientific and spritual.

Posted by: Sunder May 17 2004, 07:38 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ May 18 2004, 07:01 AM)
n3.gif, Vedic Astrology purpose was something else, now a days it is used more for mundane purpose. It is very interesting, scientific and spritual.
Jyothisham - the Eye of the VedaPurusha - is one of the six Vedangas - ANGA means limb or part..

Posted by: Homer May 25 2004, 07:14 AM

I propose this topic for Discussion. Before Independence of sub continent there was no India. So how can there be a discussion of History of India without a discussion of the rest of the sub continent. Which has ot naturally include Afghanistan, Pakistan and the Far Easter countrie ohmy.gif So the topic shoudl be renamed to specifically state Indian History for the lat 50+ years or History of the Sub continent which stretches for a few thousand years. What do you all think? regards Homer

Posted by: Reggie May 25 2004, 08:13 AM

Before Independence of sub continent there was no India.
And what was the name of THAT subcontinent? Admn. do we have to suffer these trolls? What a waste of time!

Posted by: Gargi May 25 2004, 08:20 AM

Reggie, He is confused. Let me educate him Before India there was no Pakistan. All Pakistanis are Hindus forcefully converted by Muslim invaders. Those who failed to fight back are now Pakistanis. Good example 65, 71, 99 war tells- Why they have lost all wars? He want to discuss how Harem was created by invaders. How muslim invaders looted their home and killed male population? How they destroyed Temples? How his ancestors were forcefully converted? Well it will too painfull for him. Let not discuss his history.

Posted by: Homer May 25 2004, 10:18 AM

Gargi Posted on May 25 2004, 08:50 PM Before India there was no Pakistan.
Who is discussing Pakistan? I think you are confused with what I have written please read it again.
Reggie Posted on May 25 2004, 08:43 PM And what was the name of THAT subcontinent?
Thats what I am asking you! What was the name of the sub continent before the British Called it India. When was the name India coined. Who is trolling? Regards Homer

Posted by: Gargi May 25 2004, 10:19 AM

What was the name of the sub continent before the British Called it India.
Hindustan or Bharatvarsh

Posted by: Homer May 25 2004, 10:37 AM

Hindustan or Bharatvarsh
Thank you but then why does every one still call it India? Now Hindustan or Bharatvarsh covered a large area and was not the name of a particular reigion under one border. Much like how Africa is not one country with a defined border. So the question now becomes what was the included in this Hindustan or Bharatvarsh and when did it start being called Hindustan or Bharatvarsh. Regards Homer

Posted by: Reggie May 27 2004, 09:36 PM

For Peregrine, omg.gif What is a lota? Hashmat A. Khwaja Recently on Geo TV Begum Abida Hussain in an interview kept calling Mr. Faisal Saleh Hayat (neither I met them or I know them) as ‘lota’ and bragging about her ancestral huge landed property right from the days of Ranjeet Singh (both near relations as well but Begum Sahiba consider him in biradri only). I kept wondering what is the similarity between Faisal and lota. As far as I know ‘lota’ is a water container, with a base, a bulging belly, cylindrical neck and an open top tapering outwards for easy drip. Muslims and Hindus use lotas, alike, with a slight difference in shape. Muslim lotas have a spout like an elephant’s trunk shaped or similar to a snorkel, used by World War II submarines. Hindu called their lota as ‘lutia’. It is smaller in size and has no out let like Muslim lotas. In old days Muslims while travelling by train always carried their own lotas, being a multipurpose water container. Lotas is a household item, bigger the house more are the lotas (Begum Abida must be having quite a few in her own house). Lotas are also available in all mosques and hotels. Even in olden days, these were metallic and ornamental, being used by Mughal kings and in havelies for ablution (wazoo) and washing purposes. So how does it resemble a human being? I still wonder why Begum Abida called Mr Saleh a lota unless she has one which looks like him. In such a case it be worth displaying in a museum. I wish the lady obliged her countrymen. At the end, what a lota has to do with floor crossing by politicians. Any one any comments? Islamabad

Posted by: Mudy Jun 7 2004, 11:41 AM

Posted by: rhytha Jun 8 2004, 07:25 AM

Anybody know good XML and PHP here? Can you add me to your msn messenger, i have few doubts and i like to get help on it?(unlrealted to this forum)

Posted by: Mudy Jun 9 2004, 09:33 AM

Diplomat recalled over strip club row A Bangladeshi diplomat to the United Nations in new York has been recalled to Dhaka after her husband amassed huge bills at a strip club in New York. Diplomat Mina Tasneem's husband Tauhidul Chaudhury says that the club charged him nearly $130,000 for a seven hour session. The club has rejected his claim, and are reported to have accused him of "partying like a potentate." Mr Chaudhary says he cannot remember signing bills as he was drunk. 'Six-thousand lap dances' "You are to return to Dhaka immediately, leaving your present responsibility," a statement sent by the Bangladeshi Foreign Affairs ministry to Mina Tasneem said. The statement said the order was being issued "in the public interest". "We know that Ms Tasneem is a bright diplomat. It is unfortunate that she is paying the price for the misconduct of her husband who also enjoys diplomatic facilities" - Bangladesh foreign ministry spokesman Newspapers in Bangladesh and Britain have reported that the bills clocked up by Tauhidul Chaudhury were enough to pay for 6,500 lap dances or 39 bottles of Krug champagne at $3,316 a bottle. The bill was reported to have been paid for on four different credit cards, with none of his expenses itemised. The diplomat's husband has now filed a lawsuit with the supreme court in New York in which he conceded that he stayed at the club until four in the morning and was intoxicated. But he also maintains that staff at the Scores nightclub continued to supply him with alcoholic beverages and "other services". "Mr Chaudhary cannot recall authorising these charges," the court papers say, "and if the credit card receipts do contain his signature he did not possess the requisite mental capacity to authorise these charges." He has accused the club of "wrongful conduct" and has asked for $129,626 in compensation. But a Scores spokesman quoted in the British Daily Mirror newspaper suggested that the money would not be paid. "We are used to heads of state and this guy partied like a potentate," he said.

Posted by: Mudy Jun 9 2004, 01:24 PM

Posted by: Mudy Jun 22 2004, 08:47 PM

For 70 per cent DU girls, sexual abuse begins at home: Survey Sonia Sarkar/ New Delhi When there is so much of hue-and-cry about the safety and security of women on the streets of Delhi, the Delhi University (DU) students reveal they are not safe at home too. Around 70.5 per cent of the DU students have disclosed about their incest and childhood sexual abuse (CSA) to their friends, reports a recent survey conducted by a city based NGO Rahi (Recovering And Healing from Incest). The survey was carried out amongst the undergraduate and postgraduate women students between the age of 16 to 26 from 39 colleges of the DU. Out of the 1,409 respondents, 994 revealed, non-consensual sexual experiences in their childhood and even in adolescence. Around 90.7 per cent of respondents agreed that it helps women to deal with their pain of incest and CSA experiences when they receive appropriate response from their friends, whom they have shared their experiences with. "The students have spoken to their friends disclosing to them their childhood incestuous experiences," said Anuja Gupta, the director of Rahi. She said instead of asking the respondents directly whether they are the victims of sexual abuse or not, it was asked whether they had spoken about their experiences with their friends. It was found as an alternative form for the students to speak out their minds. "A friend is a relationship of trust, so if a victim shares her traumatic experience with her friend, it itself implies that there are lot of young women who have been sexually abused in childhood," she said. Around 68 per cent of the respondents belonged to nuclear families, 17 per cent to semi-joint families and 15 per cent to larger joint families. The study also discloses that 42 per cent of the abusers include uncles and cousins while fathers and brothers amounts to 4 per cent. The list of abusers also include 26 per cent of neighbours followed by male family friends and servants at 23 per cent and male teachers at 10 per cent. Whereas 52 per cent of the respondents had multiple abusers as 30 per cent say that they were abused by two and 22 per cent by three or more. The abusive behaviours which included both contact and non-contact behaviours, ranging from sexual comments, fondling, hugging or kissing in a sexual way, masturbation, showing abusive pictures to oral sex, penetration and intercourse. "Around 78 per cent of the respondents had experienced more than one type of sexual behaviour," said Ms Gupta. Confusion, anger, helplessness, disgust, fear, shame, guilt, self-blame are the commonly experienced feelings of the students. However, sadness and pleasure also lists in this gamut of feelings. "Confusion was the only feeling expressed by respondents abused below the age of 4. However, it was at 20 per cent between the ages of 4 to 12. Interestingly, the percentage of confusion decreased in those abused after the age of 12 in contrast to that of anger which gets increased to 21 per cent in the age of 14 to 18 years," said Ms Gupta.

Posted by: Viren Jun 24 2004, 07:49 AM

Is there a online an email list of all elected members of Parliament, every state assembly and prominent members of the media? Any help in compiling one will be appreciated. Can post it here for now - later can be moved to a separate thread if needed.

Posted by: Kavi Jun 24 2004, 08:36 AM

QUOTE(Viren @ Jun 24 2004, 08:19 PM)
Is there a online an email list of all elected members of Parliament, every state assembly and prominent members of the media? Any help in compiling one will be appreciated. Can post it here for now - later can be moved to a separate thread if needed. the place for you guys.

Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 29 2004, 06:49 AM

Hi , Any free "direct" pop3/imap email service ? ( Not the web-based one ) Thanks!

Posted by: Viren Jun 29 2004, 07:36 AM

Bhootnath: I think allows this. Check it out.

Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 29 2004, 09:28 AM

Thanks Viren , I shall. BTW have you managed a gmail account, desperate to sponsor one :-)) i.e. I am desperate for getting one smile.gif))

Posted by: Mudy Jun 29 2004, 08:17 PM

Iranian Woman Gives Birth to Frog The Iranian Republic News Agency (IRNA) published a news article titled "Iranian Woman Gives Birth to Frog." The following is the article:(1) "An Iranian woman gave birth to a frog in a bizarre labor in the southeastern city of Iranshahr Saturday. Gynecologist Varasteh, who confirmed the report said the woman, whose period had stopped for six months, underwent a sonography in May which showed she had a cyst in her abdomen, wrote the Farsi-language daily E'temad in its Sunday's edition. Following severe bleeding, the woman, who has not been named, gave birth to a live gray frog accompanied with mud. Varasteh believes the frog larva has most likely entered and grown in the woman's body. "Other physicians argue that the larva has found its way into her body while she was swimming in a dirty pool, turning to a frog after the fetus has grown. And some specialists blame genetic disorders, saying the so-called frog has similarities with the human's fetus. The woman has two healthy children."

Posted by: Dr. S. Kalyan Jul 5 2004, 07:29 PM

Saw the film Fahrenheit 911. Some shocking facts were revealed by the film which have also been discussed on the web. An intricate web of corporate and presidential-level intrigues unravels linking Caspian gas pipelines, Iraq war, 9-11 and clash of civilizations. What clash of what civilizations? It all boils down to corporate avarice. Saudi are supposed to have $1.4 billion in investments in USA. What war on terror? Unocal, an American petroleum corporation, had a planned pipeline that would run from Turkmenistan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, and out to a warm water port. An ex-executive of Unocal is now President of Afghanistan, Karzai. The media takes everyone for a ride day in and day out. Kalyanaraman Troubling Business Contacts "Fahrenheit 911" reveals much troubling information about business contacts between the Bush families and Saudi-Arabia, including the Bin Laden family. According to Moore, Bush Sr. actually spent the morning of September 11 with business partners of the powerful Carlyle Group and watched the attacks on TV together with Bin Ladens. Given that the Saudis invested billions in the Bush oil business, is it possible, Moore asks, that they are more concerned with what's good for Saudi-Arabia rather than ordinary Americans? Arab businessmen, including many Bin Laden family members, were flown out of the country shortly after the attacks--while every other flight was still grounded. What are the implications? Democrats want Cheney-Halliburton probe Republicans dismiss questions about contract Tuesday, June 1, 2004 Posted: 6:13 PM EDT (2213 GMT) WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A Democratic senator Tuesday called for a congressional investigation into whether Vice President Dick Cheney had a role in awarding a no-bid contract in Iraq to his old company, the oil-services giant Halliburton. The secretive Carlyle Group gives capitalism a bad name. But dismantling the whole system may be slightly over the top The iron triangle: inside the secret world of the Carlyle group by Dan Briody, Wiley, 240 pages On the day Osama bin Laden's men attacked America, Shafiq bin Laden, described as an estranged brother of the terrorist, was at an investment conference in Washington, DC, along with two people who are close to President George Bush: his father, the first President Bush, and James Baker, the former secretary of state who masterminded the legal campaign that secured Dubya's move to the White House. The conference was hosted by the Carlyle Group, a private equity firm that manages billions of dollars, including, at the time, some bin Laden family wealth. It also employs Messrs Bush and Baker. In the immediate aftermath of the attacks, when no one was being allowed in or out of the United States, many members of the bin Laden family in America were spirited home to Saudi Arabia. The revival of defence spending that followed greatly increased the value of the Carlyle Group's investments in defence companies. Story_ID=1875084 The Wall Street Journal Europe, Friday / Saturday September 28-29 2001, p.4 Bin Laden Family Has Intricate Ties With Washington Saudi Clan Has Had Access To Influential Republicans By Staff Reporters Daniel Golden and James Bandler in Boston, and Marcus Walker in Hamburg If the U.S. boosts defense spending in its quest to stop Osama bin Laden's alleged terrorist activities, there may be one unexpected beneficiary: Mr. bin Laden's family. Among its far-flung business interests, the well-heeled Saudi Arabian clan - which says it is estranged from Osama - is an investor in a fund established by Carlyle Group, a well-connected Washington merchant bank specializing in buyouts of defense and aerospace companies. Through this investment and its ties to Saudi royalty, the bin Laden family has become acquainted with some of the biggest names in the Republican Party. In recent years, former U.S. President George Bush, ex-Secretary of State James Baker and ex-Secretary of Defense Frank Carlucci have made the pilgrimage to the bin Laden family's headquarters in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. Mr. Bush makes speeches on behalf of Carlyle Group and is senior adviser to its Asian Partners fund, while Mr. Baker is its senior counselor. Mr. Carlucci is the group's chairman. Saving President Bush - Democracy Now - Video - 2003-12-08 ''When the President's in trouble there is one man he turns to more than any other: James A. Baker III. He was Bush's man during the Florida recount, he was in the former Soviet Republic of Georgia just months before the government fell. And as the Iraq situation worsens Bush has now named Baker as his de facto Secretary of State in Iraq. We speak with investigative journalist Greg Palast, author Dan Briody and editor Mark Ames.'' ''Baker is now a senior partner in the law firm of Baker Botts, which is deeply involved in the fight for the oil and gas of the Caspian Sea and is senior counselor to the powerful investment firm the Carlyle Group. On the morning of September 11th, 2001, Baker was reportedly at a Carlyle investor conference with members of the bin Laden family in the Ritz Carlton in Washington D.C. And his law firm Baker Botts is defending the Saudi government in a lawsuit filed by the families of the victims of the 9/11 attacks.'' Pipeline dream The emerging connection between oil plans and the 9-11 attacks By William Rivers Pitt / 05.16.02 | Some months ago, a book was published in France entitled 'Osama bin Laden: The Forbidden Truth.' The authors, Jean- Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasique, described a connection between the September 11th terrorist attacks and a stalled plan to build a pipeline to exploit the vast natural gas fields along the Caspian Sea in Turkmenistan. Their story pointed damning fingers at American petroleum companies and the Bush administration, citing instances where U.S. anti-terrorism efforts were thwarted in order to smooth the way for the pipeline deal.

Posted by: Viren Jul 5 2004, 08:24 PM

Two good books to read are "Politics of Truth" by Ambassador Joe Wilson (his wife's CIA cover was blown by White House) and "The Price of Loyalty" - forget author - but it's about Ex-Sec of Tres. Paul O'Neal.

Posted by: Viren Jul 6 2004, 06:43 AM

A good photo/article on rediff on MG Line:

Posted by: SSRamachandran Jul 6 2004, 07:59 AM

Hi , I have a copy of Weapons of Peace by Raj Chengappa for sale. I was going to put it on Ebay , but thought that I could offer it to my fellow jingos first. I am not looking to make money here ...just let me know if any one is intrested who lives in U.S. or Canada. On a scale of 1 to 10 I would give this book a 7.5 is a good read. Ram rrnsss "at" yahoo "dot" com Here is the link to the book

Posted by: Krishna Jul 8 2004, 01:21 AM

user posted image

Posted by: Bhootnath Jul 9 2004, 04:38 AM

PIONEER so no link It isn't always about you Gwynne Dyer You can never say this without hurting the feelings of at least some Americans, but it needs to be said. At the stone-laying ceremony of July 4 on the site where the WTC towers formerly stood, New York state governor George Pataki dedicated the building that is to replace them with the rhetoric that is standard in the US on such occasions: "Let this great Freedom Tower show the world that what our enemies sought to destroy-our democracy, our freedom, our way of life-stands taller than ever." But 9/11 wasn't really about any of that. Public debate in the US generally assumes that America is the only true home of democracy and freedom, and that other people and countries are "pro-American" or "anti-American" because they support or reject those ideals. Practically nobody on the rest of the planet would recognise this picture, but it is the only one most Americans are shown-and it has major foreign policy implications. This is what enables President George W Bush to explain away why the US was attacked with the simple phrase, "They hate our freedoms," and to avoid any discussion that delves into the impact of American foreign policy towards West Asia, or on Arab and Muslim attitudes towards the US. It also blinds most Americans to the nature of the strategic game that their country has been tricked into playing a role in. So once more, with feeling: The 9/11 attacks were not aimed at American values, which are of no interest to the Islamists one way or another. They were an operation that was broadly intended to raise the profile of the Islamists in the Muslim world, but they had the further quite specific goal of luring the US into invading Muslim countries. The true goal of the Islamists is to come to power in Muslim countries, and their problem until recently was that they could not win over enough local people to make their revolutions happen. Getting the US to march into the Muslim world in pursuit of the terrorists was a potentially promising stratagem, since an invasion should produce endless images of American soldiers killing and humiliating Muslims. That might finally push enough people into the arms of the Islamists to get their long-stalled revolutions off the ground. Specifically, the Al Qaeda planners expected the US to invade Afghanistan and get bogged down in the same long counter-guerrilla war that the Russians had experienced there, providing along the way years of horrifying images of American firepower killing innocent Muslims. Osama bin Laden and his colleagues were simply trying to relive their past success against the Russians and get some more mileage out of the Afghan scenario. In fact, their plan failed: The US conquered Afghanistan quickly and at a very low cost in lives, and even now, despite huge American neglect, Afghanistan has not produced a major anti-American resistance movement. The reason Al Qaeda is still in business is that the Bush Administration then invaded Iraq. The Islamists were astonished, no doubt, but they knew how to exploit an opportunity when one was handed to them. And so the real game continues, while the public debate in the US is conducted in terms that have only the most tangential contact with strategic reality. Perhaps it is unfair to ask Governor Pataki to get into any of that at an emotional ceremony that was in part a commemoration of the lives that were lost on 9/11, but when will it be addressed, and by whom?

Posted by: Reggie Jul 11 2004, 08:08 PM

Address by Subroto Bagchi, Chief Operating Officer, MindTree Consulting to the Class of 2006 at the Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore on defining success. July 2nd 2004 I was the last child of a small-time government servant, in a family of five brothers. My earliest memory of my father is as that of a District Employment Officer in Koraput, Orissa. It was and remains as back of beyond as you can imagine. There was no electricity; no primary school nearby and water did not flow out of a tap. As a result, I did not go to school until the age of eight; I was home-schooled. My father used to get transferred every year. The family belongings fit into the back of a jeep - so the family moved from place to place and, without any trouble, my Mother would set up an establishment and get us going. Raised by a widow who had come as a refugee from the then East Bengal, she was a matriculate when she married my Father. My parents set the foundation of my life and the value system which makes me what I am today and largely defines what success m eans to me today. As District Employment Officer, my father was given a jeep by the government. There was no garage in the Office, so the jeep was parked in our house. My father refused to use it to commute to the office. He told us that the jeep is an expensive resource given by the government - he reiterated to us that it was not 'his jeep' but the government's jeep. Insisting that he would use it only to tour the interiors, he would walk to his office on normal days. He also made sure that we never sat in the government jeep - we could sit in it only when it was stationary. That was our early childhood lesson in governance - a lesson that corporate managers learn the hard way, some never do. The driver of the jeep was treated with respect due to any other member of my Father's office. As small children, we were taught not to call him by his name. We had to use the suffix 'dada' whenever we were to refer to him in public or private. When I grew up to own a car and a driver by the name of Raju was appointed - I repeated the lesson to my two small daughters. They have, as a result, grown up to call Raju, 'Raju Uncle' - very different from many of their friends who refer to their family drivers as 'my driver'. When I hear that term from a school- or college-going person, I cringe. To me, the lesson was significant - you treat small people with more respect than how you treat big people. It is more important to respect your subordinates than your superiors. Our day used to start with the family huddling around my Mother's chulha - an earthen fire place she would build at each place of posting where she would cook for the family. There was no gas, nor electrical stoves. The morning routine started with tea. As the brew was served, Father would ask us to read aloud the editorial page of The Statesman's 'muffosil' edition - delivered one day late. We did not understand much of what we were reading. But the ritual was meant for us to know that the world was larger than Koraput district and the English I speak today, despite having studied in an Oriya medium school, has to do with that routine. After reading the newspaper aloud, we were told to fold it neatly. Father taught us a simple lesson. He used to say, "You should leave your newspaper and your toilet, the way you expect to find it". That lesson was about showing consi deration to others. Business begins and ends with that simple precept. Being small children, we were always enamored with advertisements in the newspaper for transistor radios - we did not have one. We saw other people having radios in their homes and each time there was an advertisement of Philips, Murphy or Bush radios, we would ask Father when we could get one. Each time, my Father would reply that we did not need one because he already had five radios - alluding to his five sons. We also did not have a house of our own and would occasionally ask Father as to when, like others, we would live in our own house. He would give a similar reply, "We do not need a house of our own. I already own five houses". His replies did not gladden our hearts in that instant. Nonetheless, we learnt that it is important not to measure personal success and sense of well being through material possessions. Government houses seldom came with fences. Mother and I collected twigs and built a small fence. After lunch, my Mother would never sleep. She would take her kitchen utensils and with those she and I would dig the rocky, white ant infested surrounding. We planted flowering bushes. The white ants destroyed them. My mother brought ash from her chulha and mixed it in the earth and we planted the seedlings all over again. This time, they bloomed. At that time, my father's transfer order came. A few neighbors told my mother why she was taking so much pain to beautify a government house, why she was planting seeds that would only benefit the next occupant. My mother replied that it did not matter to her that she would not see the flowers in full bloom. She said, "I have to create a bloom in a desert and whenever I am given a new place, I must leave it more beautiful than w hat I had inherited". That was my first lesson in success. It is not about what you create for yourself, it is what you leave behind that defines success. My mother began developing a cataract in her eyes when I was very small. At that time, the eldest among my brothers got a teaching job at the University in Bhubaneswar and had to prepare for the civil services examination. So, it was decided that my Mother would move to cook for him and, as her appendage, I had to move too. For the first time in my life, I saw electricity in homes and water coming out of a tap. It was around 1965 and the country was going to war with Pakistan. My mother was having problems reading and in any case, being Bengali, she did not know the Oriya script. So, in addition to my daily chores, my job was to read her the local newspaper - end to end. That created in me a sense of connectedness with a larger world. I began taking interest in many different things. While reading out news about the war, I felt that I was fighting the war myself. She and I discussed the daily news and built a bond with the larger universe. In it, we became part of a larger reality. Till date, I measure my success in terms of that sense of larger connectedness. Meanwhile, the war raged and India was fighting on both fronts. Lal Bahadur Shastri, the then Prime Minster, coined the term "Jai Jawan, Jai Kishan" and galvanized the nation in to patriotic fervor. Other than reading out the newspaper to my mother, I had no clue about how I could be part of the action. So, after reading her the newspaper, every day I would land up near the University's water tank, which served the community. I would spend hours under it, imagining that there could be spies who would come to poison the water and I had to watch for them. I would daydream about catching one and how the next day, I would be featured in the newspaper. Unfortunately for me, the spies at war ignored the sleepy town of Bhubaneswar and I never got a chance to catch one in action. Yet, that act unlocked my imagination. Imagination is everything. If we can imagine a future, we can create it, if we can create that future, others will live in it. That is the essence of success. Over the next few years, my mother's eyesight dimmed but in me she created a larger vision, a vision with which I continue to see the world and, I sense, through my eyes, she was seeing too. As the next few years unfolded, her vision deteriorated and she was operated for cataract. I remember, when she returned after her operation and she saw my face clearly for the first time, she was astonished. She said, "Oh my God, I did not know you were so fair". I remain mighty pleased with that adulation even till date. Within weeks of getting her sight back, she developed a corneal ulcer and, overnight, became blind in both eyes. That was 1969. She died in 2002. In all those 32 years of living with blindness, she never complained about her fate even once. Curious to know what she saw with blind eyes, I asked her once if she sees darkness. She replied, "No, I do not see darkne ss. I only see light even with my eyes closed". Until she was eighty years of age, she did her morning yoga everyday, swept her own room and washed her own clothes. To me, success is about the sense of independence; it is about not seeing the world but seeing the light. Over the many intervening years, I grew up, studied, joined the industry and began to carve my life's own journey. I began my life as a clerk in a government office, went on to become a Management Trainee with the DCM group and eventually found my life's calling with the IT industry when fourth generation computers came to India in 1981. Life took me places - I worked with outstanding people, challenging assignments and traveled all over the world. In 1992, while I was posted in the US, I learnt that my father, living a retired life with my eldest brother, had suffered a third degree burn injury and was admitted in the Safderjung Hospital in Delhi. I flew back to attend to him - he remained for a few days in critical stage, bandaged from neck to toe. The Safderjung Hospital is a cockroach infested, dirty, inhuman place. The overworked, under-resourced sisters in the burn ward are both victims and perpetrators of dehumanized life at its worst. One morning, while attending to my Father, I realized that the blood bottle was empty and fearing that air would go into his vein, I asked the attending nurse to change it. She bluntly told me to do it myself. In that horrible theater of death, I was in pain and frustration and anger. Finally when she relented and came, my Father opened his eyes and murmured to her, "Why have you not gone home yet?" Here was a man on his deathbed but more concerned about the overworked nurse than his own state. I was stunned at his stoic self. There I learnt that there is no limit to how concerned you can be for another human being and what is the limit of inclusion you can create. My father died the next day. He was a man whose success was defined by his principles, his frugality, his universalism and his sense of inclusion. Above all, he taught me that success is your ability to rise above your discomfort, whatever may be your current state. You can, if you want, raise your consciousness above your immediate surroundings. Success is not about building material comforts - the transistor that he never could buy or the house that he never owned. His success was about the legacy he left, the memetic continuity of his ideals that grew beyond the smallness of a ill-paid, unrecognized government servant's world. My father was a fervent believer in the British Raj. He sincerely doubted the capability of the post-independence Indian political parties to govern the country. To him, the lowering of the Union Jack was a sad event. My Mother was the exact opposite. When Subhash Bose quit the Indian National Congress and came to Dacca, my mother, then a schoolgirl, garlanded him. She learnt to spin khadi and joined an underground movement that trained her in using daggers and swords. Consequently, our household saw diversity in the political outlook of the two. On major issues concerning the world, the Old Man and the Old Lady had differing opinions. In them, we learnt the power of disagreements, of dialogue and the essence of living with diversity in thinking. Success is not about the ability to create a definitive dogmatic end state; it is about the unfolding of thought processes , of dialogue and continuum. Two years back, at the age of eighty-two, Mother had a paralytic stroke and was lying in a government hospital in Bhubaneswar. I flew down from the US where I was serving my second stint, to see her. I spent two weeks with her in the hospital as she remained in a paralytic state. She was neither getting better nor moving on. Eventually I had to return to work. While leaving her behind, I kissed her face. In that paralytic state and a garbled voice, she said, "Why are you kissing me, go kiss the world." Her river was nearing its journey, at the confluence of life and death, this woman who came to India as a refugee, raised by a widowed Mother, no more educated than high school, married to an anonymous government servant whose last salary was Rupees Three Hundred, robbed of her eyesight by fate and crowned by adversity - was telling me to go and kiss the world! Success to me is about Vision. It is the ability to rise above the immediacy of pain. It is about imagination. It is about sensitivity to small people. It is about building inclusion. It is about connectedness to a larger world existence. It is about personal tenacity. It is about giving back more to life than you take out of it. It is about creating extra-ordinary success with ordinary lives. Thank you very much; I wish you good luck and Godspeed. Go, kiss the world.

Posted by: SSRamachandran Jul 13 2004, 07:53 AM

What does it mean when they say "Reactor achieved criticality on such and such date". Can some one explain in layman's terms. I remember some physics/chemistry and can understand some technical stuff. Thanks in advance.

Posted by: Viren Jul 13 2004, 08:49 AM

Bhootnath: Please check your PM Sunder: Hope you can see the 'Member Articles' forum. Email otherwise.

Posted by: bgravi Jul 13 2004, 04:46 PM

Once a message has been posted, is it possible to edit or delete it? I couldn't find any way to delete or edit the message.

Posted by: Viren Jul 13 2004, 04:48 PM

Above every post there is the 'edit' or 'delete' button on right side.

Posted by: Sunder Jul 13 2004, 05:13 PM

QUOTE(Viren @ Jul 13 2004, 09:19 PM)
Bhootnath: Please check your PM Sunder: Hope you can see the 'Member Articles' forum. Email otherwise.
Viren, I am unable to view members article section. I still get the same error message "Configuration error, please run the install script or modify config.php"

Posted by: Viren Jul 15 2004, 07:38 AM

Sunder, try this

Posted by: Sunder Jul 15 2004, 11:06 AM

QUOTE(Viren @ Jul 15 2004, 08:08 PM)
Sunder, try this
specool.gif Awesome.. this works.. thanks Viren...

Posted by: Viren Jul 16 2004, 06:47 AM

A fire that may have been caused by a short circuit igniting a thatched roof killed at least 80 children and injured more than 100 others in a southern Indian school Friday, a local government official was quoted as saying. "Most of them were 6- to 13-year-olds," J. Radhakrishnan told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from the town of Kumbakonam in southern Tamil Nadu state, where the blaze occurred

Posted by: Viren Jul 19 2004, 09:02 AM

Dr Kalyan: It's a pretty interesting documentary. The opposite side is already planning it's response with their own movie. Some arguments that will be used against Moore are

Posted by: Viren Jul 19 2004, 10:58 AM

About time: specool.gif

Posted by: s.k.mody Jul 20 2004, 01:52 PM

Fascinating article on how the final shape of the WTC plan was arrived at:- Also see: Regards, Sandeep

Posted by: s.k.mody Jul 26 2004, 08:49 AM

A website that may be of interest to forumites - purely for informational purposes of course smile.gif

Posted by: monikasnf Jul 26 2004, 01:21 PM

Hi. I'm a student in London, and I was wondering whether anyone would be interested in helping me. I'm currently doing research based on online retailers of Indian clothes, so if anyone is willing to help, please go to the following link and fill in the questionnaire. Your input will be most appreciated! Thank you in advance!

Posted by: rajesh_g Jul 26 2004, 04:03 PM

Political Compass test.. argue.gif I got 6.5 on econ left/right 2.87 libertarian/authoritarian Find myself dangerously close to Dubya/Bliar.. ohmy.gif good timepass value .. tv_feliz.gif

Posted by: rhytha Aug 30 2004, 01:12 AM

Anybodywant gmail invitations, i have 6 left. Criteria:biggrin.gif 1.) you need to be a IF member. 2.) minimum 50 posts. Pm Me your email address to which i will send you the invitations. wink.gif

Posted by: bhattathiri Aug 31 2004, 11:53 PM

September 11th. September 11th. This day has changed the history of the world .People have seen cruelty in the original form and some have not even recovered from the great mental depression. Let us express our feelings towards the sufferers of the tragedy on September 11, 2001, at New York and share with all some of the feelings of millions of educated on "Terrorism" and about the difference it has made in our lives, individual and collective. Let us also recollect the other great historical event that occurred on the soil of United states Of America a superpower on the same date viz. 11th September. Coincidently the appearance of Swami Vivekananda on the platform of the Parliament of Religions of Columbian Exposition, held in Chicago is also on September 11th in 1893 and preached the importance of love among all religions. Strangely the great Swami, in his very first lecture, spoke mainly on tolerance and Universal Acceptance. He said, `we believe not only in Universal tolerance but we accept all religions as true'. He quoted from a famous hymn to God Siva written by Pushpadanta several centuries ago, which stated, `As the different streams having their sources in different places all mingle their water in to the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee'. He then concluded with the following wonderful words, which appear most appropriate to be quoted before: `Sectarianism, bigotry, and its horrible descendent, fanaticism have long possessed this beautiful earth. They have filled the earth with violence, drenched it often and often with human blood, destroyed civilization and sent whole nations to despair Ö let us sincerely hope that the actions taken during the last one year may be the death knell of all fanaticism, of all persecutions with the weapon or with the pen and of all uncharitable feelings between persons wending their way to the same goal' Though we are yet to find out what all ideas worked behind that tragedy of September 11, 2001, we can be sure that an extreme fanatic ideology that considered all other ideologies as worth nothing and itself as the only worth living ideology was behind the dastardly act. The further events have revealed that this fanatic ideology was inculcated into receptive minds of the youth who become the instruments of terror that revealed itself at the W.T.O. and other important places,in America. Fanaticism drives away all reason and thus persons with fanatic ideas act like robots, rather, like animals. Fanaticism is the fuel by which the machine of terrorism works. Fanaticism has been there in human life whenever people have been deprived of their spiritual food. What is this spiritual food? The disciplines or values of life that lead persons to realize their oneness with the Universe and with God and thus come to love humanity and God resulting into peace evrywhere. The Vedas, the oldest available scriptures to humanity,The Holy Bible, The Holy Koran and all other religious scriptures say that all this creation is God alone and should love each other -. It implies that this Divinity is in every creature as its fundamental, inalienable nature. That is why Swami Vivekananda proclaimed the `Divinity of man' in his many lectures in America. He thundered, `Ye, the divinities on earth, sinners? It is a libel to call a man so'. When this idea of the Divinity of man is widely taught, not only in our schools and colleges but also in all churches, mosques, pagodas, Tabenacles and Temples where most innocent minds throng in millions, then only people will get their highest respect and regard, irrespective of their gender, wealth, intelligence, power etc. Then only the very idea of harming anyone, be it for any cause, would appear abhorring. Then alone can violence be radically uprooted from society. In spite of the utmost technical and science education that people are getting now a days, the love and respect for fellowmen as a brother in God is lacking. This is what has made our scientists and politicians prepare nuclear weapons, biological bombs, ultimately killing all the fellow-feelings in the hearts of people. Is there any wonder if such people indulge in wholesale destruction of their fellow-beings as in the `program of Hitler' or `the tragedy of September 11 of 2001' in New York? This is the mental impact that Terrorism of September 11 has made on the thinking men like us. The difference it has made in our life is that it has awakened a sense of urgency to educate people against falling a prey to the `brain-washing' ideologies masked under various garbs . In killing innocents, there can be no religion except Demon's dance. Men who join such fanatic's training camps are generally the poor and the deprived. They are `brainwashed' to think that by killing others not of their fold, will confer on them the gift of `Heaven and its unending joys' as a reward for their religious and pious act! This is made possible in general where people don't have basic freedoms of democratic rule, but are lead by nose as it were by selfish politicians. We have to stop all help to such non-democracies and pseudo-democracies. We have to push on with meaningful education supplemented with scientific skills and spiritual `values' that will make our men and women not only efficient but also good. Goodness can be summarized as truthfulness, a feeling of brotherhood of whole humanity, a sympathy to serve the needy and a firm conviction that humanity is one Divine family and to hurt anyone would mean bringing unhappiness on ourselves. Let us make a simple prayer thus: `Oh God, please bless us all with the will to spread these ideas of love and brotherhood to all our brothers from wherever irrespective of cast, creed and religion. We remember the thousands who's lives were taken on September 11, 2001 by servants of darkness and agents of terror, and the families of those victims left behind. May God give them, and all of us, strength to endure the onslaught of evil and malice.

Posted by: EUguy Sep 3 2004, 03:12 PM

Hi! I might be in the wrong place, if anybody can point me to the right address, I'll be thankful! I am a student from Europe who happens to love Telugu alphabet. I learned it online and now I can write things in english and in my own language with Telugu symbols. I don't speak the language itself, there are practically zero indians in my country and there aren't any schools to learn it either. Anyway, all online tutorials use those perfect letters from fonts or java script, but I have never been able to get any handwritten things. Learning online is like learning to write in perfect Arial or Times Roman fonts. Plus, I heard that the way some symbols (like two or three consonants in a row) are written is not the same when handwritten - such as not written on the same level as the primary letter and so on.. Is there anybody who would be willing to spend some time and help me out with that? I would really like to have some small detailes clear and see how secondary consonants are written in real life.. It would only be a one-time help, unless somebody wants to have a penpal in Europe! I am really open to something like that also! Well, I will stop here, the msg has been to long anyway.. And let's see if anybody is out there smile.gif Bye!

Posted by: k.ram Sep 4 2004, 09:20 AM

Contact me off-line.

Posted by: Viren Sep 10 2004, 10:07 AM

Not sure of the exact thread for this..hence posting here. Came via email: -------------------------------- ABOUT THE NAME "HINDU" By Stephen Knapp I feel there needs to be some clarification about the use of the words "Hindu" and "Hinduism." The fact is that true "Hinduism" is based on Vedic knowledge, which is related to our spiritual identity. Many people do accept it to mean the same thing as Sanatana-dharma, which is a more accurate Sanskrit term for the Vedic path. Such an identity is beyond any temporary names as Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, or even Hindu. After all, God never describes Himself as belonging to any such category, saying that He is only a Christian God, or a Muslim God, or a Hindu God. That is why some of the greatest spiritual masters from India have avoided identifying themselves only as Hindus. The Vedic path is eternal, and therefore beyond all such temporary designations. So am I calling the name "Hindu" a temporary designation? We must remember that the term "hindu" is not even Sanskrit. Numerous scholars say it is not found in any of the Vedic literature. So how can such a name truly represent the Vedic path or culture? And without the Vedic literature, there is no basis for "Hinduism." Most scholars feel that the name "Hindu" was developed by outsiders, invaders who could not pronounce the name of the Sindhu River properly. Some sources report that it was Alexander the Great who first renamed the River Sindhu as the Indu, dropping the beginning "S", thus making it easier for the Greeks to pronounce. This became known as the Indus. This was when Alexander invaded India around 325 B.C. His Macedonian forces thereafter called the land east of the Indus as India, a name used especially during the British regime. Later, when the Muslim invaders arrived from such places as Afghanistan and Persia, they called the Sindhu River the Hindu River. Thereafter, the name "Hindu" was used to describe the inhabitants from that tract of land in the northwestern provinces of India where the Sindhu River is located, and the region itself was called "Hindustan." Because the Sanskrit sound of "S" converts to "H" in the Parsee language, the Muslims pronounced the Sindhu as "hindu," even though at the time the people of the area did not use the name "hindu" themselves. This word was used by the Muslim foreigners to identify the people and the religion of those who lived in that area. Thereafter, even the Indians conformed to these standards as set by those in power and used the names Hindu and Hindustan. Otherwise, the word has no meaning except for those who place value on it or now use it out of convenience. Another view of the name "Hindu" shows the confusing nature it causes for understanding the true essence of the spiritual paths of India. As written be R. N. Suryanarayan in his book Universal Religion (p.1-2, published in Mysore in 1952), "The political situation of our country from centuries past, say 20-25 centuries, has made it very difficult to understand the nature of this nation and its religion. The western scholars, and historians, too, have failed to trace the true name of this Brahmanland, a vast continent-like country, and therefore, they have contented themselves by calling it by that meaningless term 'Hindu'. This word, which is a foreign innovation, is not made use by any of our Sanskrit writers and revered Acharyas in their works. It seems that political power was responsible for insisting upon continuous use of the word Hindu. The word Hindu is found, of course, in Persian literature. Hindu-e-falak means 'the black of the sky' and 'Saturn'. In the Arabic language Hind not Hindu means nation. It is shameful and ridiculous to have read all along in history that the name Hindu was given by the Persians to the people of our country when they landed on the sacred soil of Sindhu." Another view of the source of the name Hindu is based on a derogatory meaning. It is said that, "Moreover, it is correct that this name [Hindu] has been given to the original Aryan race of the region by Muslim invaders to humiliate them. In Persian, says our author, the word means slave, and according to Islam, all those who did not embrace Islam were termed as slaves." (Maharishi Shri Dayanand Saraswati Aur Unka Kaam, edited by Lala Lajpat Rai, published in Lahore, 1898, in the Introduction) Furthermore, a Persian dictionary titled Lughet-e-Kishwari, published in Lucknow in 1964, gives the meaning of the word Hindu as "chore [thief], dakoo [dacoit], raahzan [waylayer], and ghulam [slave]." In another dictionary, Urdu-Feroze-ul-Laghat (Part One, p. 615) the Persian meaning of the word Hindu is further described as barda (obedient servant), sia faam (balck color) and kaalaa (black). So these are all derogatory expressions for the translation of the term hindu in the Persian label of the people of India. So, basically, Hindu is merely a continuation of a Muslim term that became popular only within the last 1300 years. In this way, we can understand that it is not a valid Sanskrit term, nor does it have anything to do with the true Vedic culture or the Vedic spiritual path. No religion ever existed that was called "Hinduism" until the Indian people in general placed value on that name and accepted its use. So is it any wonder that some Indian acharyas and Vedic organizations do not care to use the term? The real confusion started when the name "Hinduism" was used to indicate the religion of the Indian people. The words "Hindu" and "Hinduism" were used frequently by the British with the effect of focusing on the religious differences between the Muslims and the people who became known as "Hindus". This was done with the rather successful intention of creating friction among the people of India. This was in accord with the British policy of divide and rule to make it easier for their continued dominion over the country. However, we should mention that others who try to justify the word "Hindu" present the idea that rishis of old, several thousand years ago, also called central India Hindustan, and the people who lived there Hindus. The following verse, said to be from the Vishnu Purana, Padma Purana and the Bruhaspati Samhita, is provided as proof, yet I am still waiting to learn the exact location where we can find this verse: Aaasindo Sindhu Paryantham Yasyabharatha Bhoomikah MathruBhuh Pithrubhoochaiva sah Vai Hindurithismrithaah Another verse reads as: Sapta sindhu muthal Sindhu maha samudhram vareyulla Bharatha bhoomi aarkkellamaano Mathru bhoomiyum Pithru bhoomiyumayittullathu, avaraanu hindukkalaayi ariyappedunnathu. Both of these verses more or less indicate that whoever considers the land of Bharatha Bhoomi between Sapta Sindu and the Indian Ocean as his or her motherland and fatherland is known as Hindu. However, here we also have the real and ancient name of India mentioned, which is Bharata Bhoomi. "Bhoomi" (or Bhumi) means Mother Earth, but Bharata is the land of Bharata or Bharata-varsha, which is the land of India. In numerous Vedic references in the Puranas, Mahabharata and other Vedic texts, the area of India is referred to as Bharata-varsha or the land of Bharata and not as Hindustan. Another couple of references that are used, though the exact location of which I am not sure, includes the following: Himalayam Samaarafya Yaavat Hindu Sarovaram Tham Devanirmmitham desham Hindustanam Prachakshathe Himalyam muthal Indian maha samudhram vareyulla devanirmmithamaya deshaththe Hindustanam ennu parayunnu These again indicate that the region between the Himalayas and the Indian Ocean is called Hindustan. Thus, the conclusion of this is that all Indians are Hindus regardless of their caste and religion. Of course, not everyone is going to agree with that. Others say that in the Rig Veda, Bharat is referred to as the country of "Sapta Sindhu", i.e. the country of seven great rivers. This is, of course, acceptable. However, exactly which book and chapter this verse comes from needs to be clarified. Nonetheless, some say that the word "Sindhu" refers to rivers and sea, and not merely to the specific river called "Sindhu". Furthermore, it is said that in Vedic Sanskrit, according to ancient dictionaries, "sa" was pronounced as "ha". Thus "Sapta Sindhu" was pronounced as "Hapta Hindu". So this is how the word "Hindu" is supposed to have come into being. It is also said that the ancient Persians referred to Bharat as "Hapta Hind", as recorded in their ancient classic "Bem Riyadh". So this is another reason why some scholars came to believe that the word "Hindu" had its origin in Persia. Another theory is that the name "Hindu" does not even come from the name Sindhu. Mr. A. Krishna Kumar of Hyderabad, India explains. "This [Sindhu/Hindu] view is untenable since Indians at that time enviably ranked highest in the world in terms of civilization and wealth would not have been without a name. They were not the unknown aborigines waiting to be discovered, identified and Christened by foreigners." He cites an argument from the book Self-Government in India by N. B. Pavgee, published in 1912. The author tells of an old Swami and Sanskrit scholar Mangal Nathji, who found an ancient Purana known as Brihannaradi in the Sham village, Hoshiarpur, Punjab. It contained this verse: himalayam samarabhya yavat bindusarovaram hindusthanamiti qyatam hi antaraksharayogatah Again the exact location of this verse in the Purana is missing, but Kumar translates it as: "The country lying between the Himalayan mountains and Bindu Sarovara (Cape Comorin sea) is known as Hindusthan by combination of the first letter 'hi' of 'Himalaya' and the last compound letter 'ndu' of the word 'Bindu.'" This, of course, is supposed to have given rise to the name "Hindu", indicating an indigenous origin. The conclusion of which is that people living in this area are thus known as "Hindus". So again, in any way these theories may present their information, and in any way you look at it, the name "Hindu" started simply as a bodily and regional designation. The name "Hindu" refers to a location and its people and originally had nothing to do with the philosophies, religion or culture of the people, which could certainly change from one thing to another. It is like saying that all people from India are Indians. Sure, that is acceptable as a name referring to a location, but what about their religion, faith and philosophy? These are known by numerous names according to the various outlooks and beliefs. Thus, they are not all Hindus, as many people who do not follow the Vedic system already object to calling themselves by that name. So "Hindu" is not the most appropriate name of a spiritual path, but the Sanskrit term of sanatana-dharma is much more accurate. The culture of the ancient Indians and their early history is Vedic culture or Vedic dharma. So it is more appropriate to use a name that is based on that culture for those who follow it, rather than a name that merely addresses the location of a people. Unfortunately, the word "Hindu" has gradually been adopted by most everyone, even the Indians, and is presently applied in a very general way, so much so, in fact, that now "Hinduism" is often used to describe anything from religious activities to even Indian social or nationalistic events. Some of these so-called "Hindu" events are not endorsed in the Vedic literature, and, therefore, must be considered non-Vedic. Thus, not just anyone can call themselves a "Hindu" and still be considered a follower of the Vedic path. Nor can any activity casually be dubbed as a part of Hinduism and thoughtlessly be considered a part of the true Vedic culture. Therefore, the Vedic spiritual path is more accurately called sanatana-dharma, which means the eternal, unchanging occupation of the soul in its relation to the Supreme Being. Just as the dharma of sugar is to be sweet, this does not change. And if it is not sweet, then it is not sugar. Or the dharma of fire is to give warmth and light. If it does not do that, then it is not fire. In the same way, there is a particular dharma or nature of the soul, which is sanatana, or eternal. It does not change. So there is the state of dharma and the path of dharma. Following the principles of sanatana-dharma can bring us to the pure state of regaining our forgotten spiritual identity and relationship with God. This is the goal of Vedic knowledge. Thus, the knowledge of the Vedas and all Vedic literature, such as Lord Krishna's message in Bhagavad-gita, as well as the teachings of the Upanishads and Puranas, are not limited to only "Hindus" who are restricted to a certain region of the planet or family of birth. Such knowledge is actually meant for the whole world. As everyone is a spiritual being and has the same spiritual essence as described according to the principles of sanatana-dharma, then everyone should be given the right and privilege to understand this knowledge. It cannot be held for an exclusive group of people. Sanatana-dharma is also the fully developed spiritual philosophy that fills whatever gaps may be left by the teachings of other less philosophically developed religions. Direct knowledge of the soul is a "universal spiritual truth" which can be applied by all people, in any part of the world, in any time in history, and in any religion. It is eternal. Therefore, being an eternal spiritual truth, it is beyond all time and worldly designations. Knowledge of the soul is the essence of Vedic wisdom and is more than what the name "Hindu" implies, especially after understanding from where the name comes. Even if the time arrives in this deteriorating age of Kali-yuga after many millennia when Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, and even Hinduism (as we call it today) may disappear from the face of the earth, there will still be the Vedic teachings that remain as a spiritual and universal truth, even if such truths may be forgotten and must be re-established again in this world by Lord Krishna Himself. I doubt then that He will use the name "Hindu." He certainly said nothing of the sort when He last spoke Bhagavad-gita. Thus, although I do not feel that "Hindu" is a proper term to represent the Vedic Aryan culture or spiritual path, I do use the word from time to time book to mean the same thing since it is already so much a part of everyone's vocabulary. Otherwise, since I follow the Vedic path of sanatana-dharma, I call myself a sanatana-dharmist. That reduces the need to use the label of "Hindu" and also helps focus on the universal nature of the Vedic path. Therefore, I propose that all Hindus begin to use this term sanatana-dharmist, which not only refers to the correct Sanskrit terminology, but also more accurately depicts the true character and spiritual intention of the Vedic path. Others have also used the terms sanatanis or even dharmists, both of which are closer to the real meaning within Vedic culture. However, for political and legal purposes it may be convenient to continue using the name Hindu for the time being. Until the terms Sanatana-dharma or Vedic dharma become more recognized by international law and society in general, "Hindu" may remain the term behind which to rally for Vedic culture. But over the long term, it is a name that is bound to change in meaning to the varying views of it due to its lack of a real linguistic foundation. Being based merely on the values people place in it, its meaning and purpose will vary from person to person, culture to culture, and certainly from generation to generation. We can see how this took place with the British in India. So there will be the perpetuation of the problems with the name and why some people and groups will not want to accept it. Yet by the continued and increased use of the terms Vedic dharma or Sanatana-dharma, at least by those who are more aware of the definitive Sanskrit basis of these terms, they will gain recognition as being the more accurate terminology. This is similar to the way the tribes that were known as the American Indians in the United States are no longer called that but are now more accurately referred to as Native Americans or First Nations people. It merely takes some time to make the proper adjustments. This is the way to help cure the misinterpretation or misunderstandings that may come from using the name Hindu, and also end the reasons why some groups do not care to identify themselves under that name. After all, most Vedic groups, regardless of their orientation and the specific path they follow, can certainly unite behind the term Vedic dharma.,

Posted by: Nikhil Sep 10 2004, 06:34 PM

Well this tread is in continuation of one of the discussion we had during recent India-forum meet in NYC. Topic is Custom-made computers vs off the shelf computers (i.e. dell, hp, emachines etc). Well I for one, go only with custom ones since custom one are like SU-30MKI, fitted with everything best available to my tailored needs! rather than some pre-design machines from brands like HP, DELL etc bcos the limitations those machines have as they have to keep the price "low & attractive"! Here is the configration of new PC i built for myself approx. 1 week ago: COMPUTER CASE : Thermaltake Highest Xaser III Super Tower Case with 420W Power Supply, Model "V2420A", 9 INTERNAL 80mm FANS MOTHERBOARD : ASUS "P5GD2 Premium" 915P Chipset Motherboard CPU : Intel LGA775 Pentium 4 3.4 GHz Prescott Extreme Edition , 800MHz FSB, 2MB L3 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology, Overclocked to 4.5 GHz MEMORY : 4*1GB - CORSAIR VALUESELECT 240-Pin 1GB DDR2 PC2-4200 HARD DRIVES: Four(4) Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive in RAID-1 configration & Four (4) Maxtor 300GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive in regular mode VIDEO CARD: Sapphire ATI RADEON™ X800 XT Video Card, 256MB GDDR3, 256-Bit, DVI/VIVO SOUND CARD: Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro SPEAKERS: CREATIVE GigaWorks S750 7.1 Speaker DVDRW/CDRW: Plextor 12X DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model PX-712A FLOPPY: NEC 1.44MB Floppy Drive, Model FD1231H HEADPHONE: Logitech Extreme PC Gaming Headset MONITORS: (2) SAMSUNG 213T-Silver 21.3" LCD Monitor & ViewSonic G220fb 21" PerfectFlat CRT Monitor KEYBOARD & MOUSE: Logitech Cordless Desktop MX™ for Bluetooth On software side... OS: Windows XP Media Center Edition 2004 (on raid-1 config harddrives) & RedHat Enterprise Linux 3.0 (on one of the regular 300GB 7200RPM SATA Harddrive) Tonnes of videogames (Medal of honor, need for speed, Counter Strike, Halo, Battlefeild 1942, Sub Commnad, Flight Sim 2004, sim city, doom3, and many more. complete macromedia & adobe suites, office xp pro, and countless many other application which i need for my daily work use, and Norton's Antivirus & firewall! Dont ask me about the cost, all my summer savings went into it!!

Posted by: rhytha Sep 10 2004, 11:09 PM

well, guess what i have biggrin.gif rocker.gif rock.gif (in my dreams laugh.gif ) Look at this beast. user posted image 3.8GHz* Accelerated Hyper-Threading Intel® Pentium 4 Extreme Edition CPU w/ 2MB L3 Cache 512K L2 Cache 950MHz** System Bus PuRam™ No System Hard Drive Configurable Up to 100 times faster than ATA/SCSI/FC HD based designs with Data Burst Speeds up to 8GB/s and I/O data requests at over 150.000 I/O sec. Enhanced CacheFlow™ Technology SuperBIOS™ IBPT Technology 180W Sub-zero Vapor Compression Cooling PC4500 566MHz Dual-Channel Performance DDR, up to 4GB Up to 16GB Total RAM with optional RamDrives. Over 8.5Gb/s Memory Bandwidth ATA-133 RAID, Serial ATA-150 Connectivity UltraSCSI-320 & FiberChannel Expansion Up to 2 Terabytes of Colossal Storage Capacity Intel Performance Acceleration Technology AGP Pro 8x Accelerated 256bit MemoryBus Radeon™ 9800 Pro/ XT Graphics with 8 Pixel Pipelines at 3.04Gp/s Pixel Fil rate, 21.8GB/ bandwidth & Multi-monitor, High-Definition support. Optional direct connectivity with the Gemini, Cinerama & Grand Canyon Series Displays (or a total of 8 external high-resolution monitors) via ColorGraphgic XenteraGT, Appian Rushmore, Nvidia Quadro NVS & Matrox Parhelia, 450MMs & QID Graphics Adapter Series bundle. Ultra High-speed 12x DVD+/-RW Optical Drive Front Panel Multi-information LCD Status Display, External removable HD Storage racks with LCD Monitoring or Multi-Optical Drives interchangeable bays FireWire 400 & 800 Ports Up to 8 Full-Duplex USB2 480MB/s Ports Multi-Channel Digital AI Audio with Artificial Intelligence Audio-Sensing Technology & S/PDIF Digital interface Gigabit LAN with AI Net (Artificial Intelligence Net-Diagnosing) Optional Wireless LAN 802.11g Turbo (108 Mbps) with 10x the speed and 4x the range of 802.11b featuring Dynamic Rate Shifting Technology. Provides the highest available level of industry standard 128-bit WEP encryption supporting VPN pass-through. Optional Internal Bluetooth Optional TV Tuner Optional Fax/Modem Up to 74 32-bit or 64-bit PCI slots expandability 650W VF-Speed Power Supply AI Ultra-low noise Q-Fan technology Artificial Intelligence Auto-Recovery BIOS European high-end critical components quality worksmanship. Absolutely stunning design. rock.gif

Posted by: Nikhil Sep 11 2004, 12:52 AM

That is not going to remain the best PC Since in winter I am planning to built my own Beowulf Cluster in my basement! It will be consisted of 27 Dell P-4 1.8GHz machines, with somewhere around 8 Terabytes of total diskspace, and in total 32-36 GB Memory!! All the hardware came free of cost from a friend who is senior manager at goldman sach! wink.gifwink.gif

Posted by: amarnath Sep 16 2004, 12:24 AM

since this is a miscellaneous(looked up for the spelling sad.gif ) topics dudes , is any one phone-crazy enough to suggest me the best of two phones. Motorola E398 Sony Ericsson K700i. guitar.gif People tell me to buy a "smart" phone.well i dont use a phone to do smart things.i need a phone , to phone,message,fm radio,mp3 player,camera.. mot-e398 has no fm radio. i have googled for two nights enough.still wanted to ask around here. god knows what kind of people we have here ... tongue.gif

Posted by: Mudy Sep 17 2004, 10:13 AM

Don't intall Microsoft XP Service Pack2 for a while. Inbuilt firewall is causing havoc in web surfing. Microsoft is working on fix argue.gif

Posted by: Viren Sep 17 2004, 10:51 AM

If you already have, check

Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 21 2004, 11:34 AM

Chennai, Sep 21 - The bronze round of the Nokia-sponsored mobile gaming contest will be held in Chennai from September 21-23, giving mobile gaming enthusiasts here an opportunity to compete for honours in their latest pastime. The contest, which is open to all Indian nationals over 18 years of age, is being held in 47 cities across the country, consisting of bronze, silver and gold rounds with the winner getting a prize cheque of Rs 10 lakhs. In the bronze round, held in Chennai, the participants will be required to play the `hero commando' game on an `n-gage QD', Nokia's latest mobile gaming device, said Sanjeev Sharma, managing director, Nokia customer and market operations, India, in a statement here. Participants will have to play the bronze round to qualify for the silver round and then clear the silver round to play the gold round. The semi-finals will be held in four metros and the finals (gold round) will be held in Mumbai in October last week.

Posted by: Gill Sep 24 2004, 09:07 PM

Wow!!!! nice change, congrats to all on this new site. Regarding my topic, how many here are gamers? There is a nice game called America's Army, its free and is played online. Any members interested or already play, let me know. blink.gif Gill specool.gif

Posted by: k.ram Sep 25 2004, 05:14 AM

Anyone here from London? TIA

Posted by: Viren Sep 27 2004, 08:01 AM


Posted by: Mudy Sep 27 2004, 08:43 AM

QUOTE(Viren @ Sep 27 2004, 08:31 PM)
hahahahha. Kudos thumbup.gif

Posted by: Mudy Oct 1 2004, 12:28 PM user posted image

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 4 2004, 12:23 AM]~--> Protest over tribal meet New Delhi, Oct. 3: Vanvasis and nagarvasis owing allegiance to the Sangh parivar will meet between October 6 and 10 to discuss, among other things, the problems the countrys eight crore tribals face, reports our special correspondent. The gathering in the city has >>>> Christian and Muslim leaders crying foul for they see this as an attempt by the Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram that is organising the function to segregate people. <<<< One Muslim organisation has accused it of being involved in converting Scheduled Tribes to Hinduism. The ashram an RSS affiliate and one of the largest voluntary organisations working for the social, economic and cultural development of forest dwellers is organising it to celebrate its golden jubilee. Secularists, Christian and Muslim leaders have attacked the ashram in the past over its rampant reconversion in tribal hamlets in the guise of ghar vapsi (homecoming). But the ashrams joint secretary-general, Kripa Prasad Singh, says the ashram has been working through its more than 11,500 projects nationwide to bridge the gap between vanvasis and nagarvasis.

Posted by: k.ram Oct 13 2004, 04:22 AM Description "Hinduism is not a religion. It is a way of life. A heritage that we want to preserve to its fullest. Our forum is a meeting ground of like-minded writers who eat, drink and breathe Hinduism in its purest (as our ancestors interpreted it and not others) form. History is written by the victor so it's unfortunate that there are many dimensions of Hinduism that have been disparaged and condemned by all. It's time to redress the issues now. It's time to disseminate and tackle our culture, the Hindu way. Indian Journalism - especially english media - and politics, being a product of British Raj, still glorifies and carries on the conqueror's version of historyand culture of India. At SQS, we, the free Hindus will strive to correct the historical and current wrongs in Journalism. SQS is a platform to incubate and hone up the skills of writers. We would like to invite budding writers, professional writers, reporters, analyst and freelancers et al to the Hindu way of thinking. Let's form a podium where we can discover and explore the hitherto hidden facets of our great culture and continue to educate others and educate ourselves".

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 13 2004, 08:33 AM

This post is only for me. I hook , which I need to visit time and gain :) ------------------ In debate, participants often present ethics as an overriding consideration. Sometimes, ethics is referenced by several participants in support of contradictory positions. When this happens debate tends to stall, as participants lack a framework for resolving their varying ethical valuations. In the interest of keeping K5 flamewars running smoothly, below is an attempt to outline what such a framework might look like.

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 13 2004, 08:42 AM

HELP ME IF SOME ONE CAN. I use a a browser which doesnt support scripting of any kind and pluggins like java,flash etc , which is more out of choice. Now the situation is that , Forum like India-Forum use javascript power to enable auto-login. So inspite of having cookies support in my browser, I have to manually login evertime , is there somebody on this forum who can provide me with solution to overide this situation. Say for example provide me a URL like, which I can put in my local startup page as href=$SOLUTION with actual username & passwd to semi-automate the process. Thanks for the hack smile.gif PS. No I dont want to use netscape/mozilla/*fox etc etc.. my current browser save me lots of bandwidth usage plus bandwidth of the humble forum providers .. plus lots advt is not fetched ..

Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 13 2004, 11:27 AM

I missed these two posts, I expect only Thapar and her kids getting thrashed by Maharathis smile.gif) in Sout Asia section. Ashok Ji, You are on spot abt "Bhootnath" as in "ChandraKanta Santati". > Bhoot-nath is a name of shiva, literally means 'Lord of Beings'. In Sanskrit Bhoota means living being, not a ghost as in Hindi. Yes "Bhagwan Shiv / Shiva or Civa ( as Loganathan wld put it )" is one prime meaning of the word "Bhootnath". If I am not wrong other meaning of word "Bhoot" when suffixed or prefixed are "Past" as in Bhoot-Kaal, and "Element" as in "Panch-bhoot" e.g, fire, water, air what are the other two .. > I am not sure about the Maya-Mayi. I too am not aware of this title. > But Devakinandan Khatri who wrote 'Chandrakanta', 'Chandrakanta-Santati' also wrote a series called 'Bhootnath'. These books were like Indiana Jones movies, based on a theme called 'Tilasm & Aiyaari'. A recent TV serial was also based on 'Chandrakanta'. > Bhootnath was the chief of 'aiyaari' even in Chandrakanta AFAIK. I had just finished my 10th exams and had habit then of reading novels, once I had finished all available Ludlum, Uris and James Hadley Chase ( this one was really chupke chupke .... ;-} ) , while searching for next target in my house , unable to decide whether to move onto *Vedic Astrology* ( Okay , I guess that Got Ashok Kumar Ji attn. smile.gif ), or series of Homeopathic Matriea ( spello ? ) Medica , I saw these 8 or so Hindi book, which were titled "ChandraKanta Santati", I picked one and then never stopped. smile.gif I found them fantastic, though the hindi in it is bit unusual, some words like "Kyuun-ker" as I later found are used in Harayana belt .., but very unusual and captivating style of story telling, way different from the real world of "Prem Chand". TV Serial was disastrous , much like Ludlum or Forsyth in movie.. > Devakinandan Khatri's book became so popular that many people started to learn Hindi to read them Before that Urdu was preferred mode of writing literature in N. India. Even Prem-Chand first started in Urdu. I was not aware abt this . But must have been really first of its kind in Hindi story telling, very differnet from Munshiji "Ekka" smile.gif , Yup "Tilism and Aiyyari" at that age was good for fantasising smile.gif Bhootnath was the chief , and there were characters like "kamalini,shyamla" etc . Wonder iff ppl have access to this kind of books now a days .. > I had a feeling (going by the past posts) that member Bhootnath is a Punjabi and hence would know about the novel. I did not know that the novels were originally written in Hindi. Gawwd! some body does goes through my ...... smile.gif Joshi-Ji now , I am in Delhi now. But yes Punjabi. Though I have move arround within India somewhat.

Posted by: Ashok Kumar Oct 13 2004, 12:10 PM

biggrin.gif OK, so world is small after all! Tilasm & Aiyari theme's success prodded few other writers but no one suceeded as much as Devakinandan Khatri. I think I can venture a guess about Maya-Mayi. Maya = Tilasm = a house/fort/building etc which contains many hidden levels and mchanisms activated by mechanical levers etc (think Indiana Jones and Laura Croft in Tomb Raider). Mayi -> Maayi = Aiyyaar = a person who can change his shape, appearance etc. Maya-Maayi = Tilasm & Aiyyar

Posted by: Sunder Oct 13 2004, 01:55 PM

In Sri Agasthya Krutha - Sri Yogameenakshi Stotram, the final verse goes like this. Sabda Brahmamayi, Chara'charamayi, Jyothirmayi, Vangmayi Nityanandamayi, Niranjana-Mayi, Tattvam mayi, Chinmayi Tattvatheetha mayi, Paratparamayi, Mayamayi, Sreemayi Sarvaishvarya mayi, Sadhaashiva mayi, maam pahi Meenambhike. I always thought Maya-mayi meant one who is the embodiment of Maya Herself.

Posted by: Ashok Kumar Oct 13 2004, 03:04 PM

Sunder, Agree with you about the main meaning. That is what I thought when I first saw the word "Maya-mayi". I was just trying to connect it to the books on "Tilasm & Aiyyari". Both these words are not of Sanskrit origin. mAyAmayI = filled with "mAyA" or magic ( as in mAyA-nagaram) mAyA-mAyI = magic and magician (Tilasm and Aiyyar) Could AJay or you tell me spelling used for Mayamayi in Telugu for this series of books? Was it mAyA-mayI or mAyA-mAyI.

Posted by: Kaushal Oct 14 2004, 08:12 AM

Hi, Nikhil, i finally built my own computer 2 weeks ago COMPUTER CASE : Thermaltake Highest Xaser III Super Tower Case with 500W Power Supply, Model ULTRA X Connect (modular) 7 INTERNAL 80mm FANS MOTHERBOARD : MSI K8N Neo Platinum 7030 with NVIDIA nForce 3 250 Gb Chipset Motherboard CPU : AMD Athlon 64 XP3200 2.2 GHz , 800MHz FSB, 2MB , Hyper Threading Technology, Overclocked to ? GHz MEMORY : 3*.5GB - DDR2 PC-3200 HARD DRIVES: 3 Ultra ATA Hard Drive (60 GB with all my previous data, 2*200 GB seagate) with rebate the costof the seagate was about 60 $ each VIDEO CARD: Matrox Parhelia P650 SOUND CARD: ? to be decided SPEAKERS: generic DVDRW/CDRW: NECND3500A, 16x rewriter dual layer,anda combo FLOPPY:1.44MB Floppy Drive, HEADPHONE: Planttronics, Logitech Bluetooth MONITORS: (2) Planar 20" TFT Monitor &and another 15" TFT chinese made cheapo KEYBOARD & MOUSE: Logitech Cordless Desktop MX™ for Bluetooth BACKUP - Ximeta Netdisk 160 GB which i connected to the DLink Air extreme router/access point . i can access it simultaneously from the laptop and the desktop . I also have an external antenna for my Dlink. I can now access the home network from 300 feet (i have a large yard) I have several bays left for additional sata drives if i need. For the network i have choice of 56K horse and buggy, cable, and WiFi (wireless modem (while i am on travel in the US) There are still a couple of small bugs alll the USB ports (the ones on top and te D bracket) dont work. I havent checked the firewire yet, the speaker at the top of the case works. The one thing i am not enamored of the new system is it is very heavy made of steel (Thermal take ) the additional components (CPU, motherboard, case, power supply, memory, 1 hard drive, dvd rw, cddvdcombo came to slightly over a 1000 bucks. I dont do much gaming but i am on the computer almost several hours a day with lots of music, photography, and spend a lot of time on the webpage. some of the excuses i used to get a new system - the old one ( 1 GHx)spent considerable time booting up, up to 5 minutes and i would get hung if i opened too many screens. the new system is defnitiely faster. i can do a complete virus scan (500,000 files) in less than 2 hours and a defrag in less time. Anyway it meets my requirements for a fairly modest price

Posted by: AJay Oct 14 2004, 02:33 PM

QUOTE(Ashok Kumar @ Oct 14 2004, 03:34 AM)
Sunder, Agree with you about the main meaning. That is what I thought when I first saw the word "Maya-mayi". I was just trying to connect it to the books on "Tilasm & Aiyyari". Both these words are not of Sanskrit origin. mAyAmayI = filled with "mAyA" or magic ( as in mAyA-nagaram) mAyA-mAyI = magic and magician (Tilasm and Aiyyar) Could AJay or you tell me spelling used for Mayamayi in Telugu for this series of books? Was it mAyA-mayI or mAyA-mAyI.
QUOTE(Ashok Kumar @ Oct 2 2004, 09:53 PM)
Bhoot-nath is a name of shiva, literally means 'Lord of Beings'. In Sanskrit Bhoota means living being, not a ghost as in Hindi. I am not sure about the Maya-Mayi. But Devakinandan Khatri who wrote 'Chandrakanta', 'Chandrakanta-Santati' also wrote a series called 'Bhootnath'.
Ashok Kumar ji Thanks for the info. I was looking for the author's name. I knew the meaning of bhoota nAtha (same as Pashu Pati and the divyastra pAshupata gifted to Arjuna after Arjuna's encounter with Shiva when Arjuna goes on his penance for intruding into the presence of Draupadi and Dharma Raja). I had a feeling (going by the past posts) that member Bhootnath is a Punjabiu and hence would know about the novel. I did not know that the novels were originally written in Hindi. mAyA-mayi is the Telugu name for the series. I am not sure which of the books are included in the 10 volume Telugu version. I am almost certain "Chandrakanta" is the first volume and the rest 9 are probably "Chandrakanta Santati". The first relates the story of Virendra Simha and Chandrakanta in which Bhoothnath is a villain (IIRC). In the second to 10 th parts, the story talks about Indrajeeta Simha and Ananda Simha - the two sons of Chandrakanta and Virendra Simha - and various other characters including Bhoothnath, Kamalini, Kamala etc. My favorites are Bhoothnath and Kamalini. This series probably does not include "Bhootnath". Hopefully I can find these in our univ. library. Added later: The Telugu title is mAyA-mayi probably meaning "filled with mAyA", except the last 'i' is short instead of long 'I". Now what is the root language for "Tilasm & Aiyyari"? Arabic or Urdu? Since these are not from Sanskrit, I have no clue. Added even later: In Telugu a magician would be mAyAvi (same as in "Samskrutamu"). mAyAvi also could mean a con-man in some contexts (even most contexts).

Posted by: Viren Oct 15 2004, 06:56 AM

Krishnamoorthy Kannan, a protein chemist at the Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University in Delhi, may have missed his share of this year's Nobel Prize in Chemistry by a whisker because of government's failure to recognise a discovery he made 12 years ago.

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 18 2004, 04:23 PM

Oh dear !!! blink.gif

Posted by: Mudy Oct 18 2004, 04:28 PM

After the United States, Britain and Australia, Indian students are now heading towards China for higher education.
If you are member of Commie party, and unable to get admission in any other university , admission in China is a cake walk.

Posted by: Krishna Oct 24 2004, 03:47 PM

Is the clock pushed back today (in US) or is it next Sunday user posted image

Posted by: Mudy Oct 24 2004, 07:15 PM

next Sunday

Posted by: bengurion Nov 1 2004, 04:21 AM

Don't know where to post.... so putting here... About the food habits of Ancient indians... I don't think D. Balasubramanian has any kind of leaning (Left or Right) Bengurion.

Posted by: Mudy Nov 2 2004, 01:39 PM

Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 8 2004, 01:02 AM I think this is ridiculous.. This guy should be given a tour of some of the US public schools.. rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Vijay Nov 9 2004, 05:23 AM

Consider the case of the following pseudo-secular petition that claims to seek the "protection" of witnesses of the Gujarat riots. It is designed to pre-empt any damage to pseudo-secularism as a result of the serious charges that Teesta Setalvad is facing. [Adim : Link removed] (the only reason I'm giving the link is to illustrate my point) As you can see, the psec petition has ratcheted up a whopping 600 signatures in barely a couple of days since it was launched! Now take a look at the petition below that seeks justice for the victims of the 1984 pogrom against Sikhs that was committed by psecs. The petition was launched over a month ago but has only collected a pitiable 40 signatures. When the above petition against pseudo-seculars was suggested here, what did we do? We debated, philosophized and dithered over it endlessly, rather than using the opportunity to hit at pseudo-seculars. Someone on this forum claimed the 1984 pogrom was an "internal affair of India" and worried that the petition would somehow help Khalistanis and so on. This is losing track of the objective, which is to defeat pseudo-secularism intellectually. While one may not entirely agree with the wording of the petition, there is no doubt the petition would hurt pseudo-secularism if it succeeds. What hurts pseudo-secularism is good for freedom, democracy and good for India. Period. Now this HAS been a traditional weakness of our civilization. We dither and argue endlessly amongst ourselves instead of taking ACTION. We only know how to REACT, as was the case with IDRF when we did fight back successfully. However, we are unwilling to take even the most simple pro-active measures against psecs, as exemplified by the petition. All this raises certain questions about the future of Indian civilization. Is it doomed? Will intolerant and totalitarian ideologies ultimately triumph over freedom and democracy? It is not to late to act. Become pro-active against pseudo-secularism.

Posted by: Viren Nov 23 2004, 08:38 AM

Both of his parents are currently unemployed and Subham had to depend on generous relatives and the internet to gain access to the books he needed to prepare for the competition.

Posted by: Dev Nov 30 2004, 01:47 PM

Hi, This is urgent. Can anyone please tell me if there is any Hindu organization where I can donate stuff like furnitures etc. in the South Bay area? I would really prefer if they have pick-up facility. Thanks

Posted by: Mudy Nov 30 2004, 04:17 PM

Dev, Call Sunnyvale temple, they may guide you.

Posted by: Reggie Dec 13 2004, 10:48 PM

Am I the only one having difficulty accessing the BR site?

Posted by: rhytha Dec 13 2004, 11:09 PM

BR is down for the past 1 week.

Posted by: Kumar Dec 27 2004, 02:37 PM

I have come across quite a few web forums that got hit by a virus called Gen 5 Worm. Any tip on protecting web forums from Gen 5 or Viruses similar to Gen 5 would greatly help. Thanks !!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Sudhir Dec 27 2004, 02:44 PM

Use anti-virus software from companies like Symantec or TrendMicro or MaCafee.

Posted by: Kumar Dec 28 2004, 05:43 PM

biggrin.gif Thanks Sudhir !!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: vishnua Jan 7 2005, 12:43 PM

how come this forum doesnt get come up when you google for indiaforum even tried india-forum with no luck. can't we get listed so that more ppl will have access to this.

Posted by: Mudy Jan 7 2005, 01:08 PM

vishnua, One can find us using "".

Posted by: vishnua Jan 7 2005, 02:37 PM

that's my point even with thi sis what you get "-" is usually the culprit why can't this site be in on one of the first hits when people type words like india forum me it would make heck lot of difference... added later : i am sure lot of ppl know here know how google comes back with the results . the way this forum is displayed in the results shows that this is not int he list..On the top of it ppl have to type if i knew to type that then i can directly try The point i am trying to make is accessability with minimum input in the search bar. This forum has lot of good info not that BRF is bad but here it is the truth without any cenorship at the same time it is not obsecene.

Posted by: Krishna Jan 7 2005, 02:40 PM

QUOTE(vishnua @ Jan 7 2005, 03:37 PM)
that's my point even with thi sis what you get "-" is usually the culprit why can't this site be in on one of the first hits when people type words like india forum me it would make heck lot of difference...
Vishnua, You 're spelling's wrong. With this link: it does point to india-forum

Posted by: vishnua Jan 7 2005, 02:45 PM

QUOTE(Krishna @ Jan 8 2005, 03:10 AM)
QUOTE(vishnua @ Jan 7 2005, 03:37 PM)
that's my point even with thi sis what you get "-" is usually the culprit why can't this site be in on one of the first hits when people type words like india forum me it would make heck lot of difference...
Vishnua, You 're spelling's wrong. With this link: it does point to india-forum
right i had wrong spelling man do i feel stupid or what but Krishna please see the addendum in my previous post.

Posted by: Ya$h Jan 8 2005, 04:35 PM

In South America we call ourselves Hindustani...because when we left Bharat...the official name was Hindustan and not India. But now the name has changed into we have the right to call ourselves Indians? Why or why not? btw. I live in Europe now... CHANGE YOUR ID: No special characters are allowed

Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 9 2005, 01:31 PM

for registration info for various websites go to

Posted by: Viren Jan 14 2005, 04:25 PM

Came in an email.... It is one of the miracle in the sky identified by the ancient Indians. The Sun changes its path from southern direction to northern direction. Our calculation started from Vedic period. A day is divided into several divisions. It is said in Surya Siddhanta by Varahamihira that 60 Tatpara - 1 Paraa, 60 Paraa - 1 Vilipta, 60 vilipta - 1 lipta, 60 lipta - 1 vinaadika, 60 vinaadika - 1 naadiga, 60 naadikas - one day. Day 30 naadikas and night 30 naadikas. There will be flectuation in these according to the season and sunrise. The Moon takes 28 1/2 days to go around the earth. there are 6 seasons (Vasantha, Grishma, Varsha, Sarad, Hemantha and Sisira) in India. The Full moon day occurs with a particular star every month. the month is divided as Sukla and Krishna pakshas. There are two months in every season. The year is divided into two 6 months called Ayanam. 1) Dakshinayanam and 2) Uttara Ayanam. There are 4 yugas in every Chatur Yuga. The total years of one Chatur yuga 43,20,000 years. Like this 71 Chatur yugas - 1 Manvantharam, 14 Manvantara - 1 Kalpa, One kalpa is a day of the creator. Calculate !!!!. The total age of the creator divided by 43,20,000 is a year. i.e. 365. ....... etc. This is the calculation of Indian year. It is very accurate to modern calculation. How is it....? really science or not......!

Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 28 2005, 07:31 PM

It might seem the ultimate contradiction but recent statistics put out by the International Centre for Prison Studies (ICPS) indicate that the self-styled ‘Land of the Free’, the United States of America, had far more people in prison during 2004 — 2,079,000 or 2.079 million — than other countries. Iran had 164,000 people in jail after being labelled by President George W Bush during his first term as part of the ‘Axis of Evil’ along with Iraq which was subsequently ‘liberated’ by a US-led coalition. And the number of people in jail in a country is not proportional to the size of that nation’s population. Iran’s population is one-fourth that of the United States. China, the world’s most populous country, has more than four times as many people as the US. India, the world’s most populous democracy has more than three times as many people as the US. However, ICPS statistics indicate that even if the number of prisoners in China and India for 2004 is added together, the total is still 216,000 short of the America’s prison population. China had an estimated 1,549,000 or 1.549 million prisoners in 2004 and India had 314,000. The US tops the ICPS table for the maximum number of people in prison, followed by China, Russia, India, Brazil, Thailand, Ukraine, South Africa, Mexico and Iran, in that order.

Posted by: acharya Jan 30 2005, 12:22 PM

I am addicted to India, it's magical, says StingAdd to Clippings MALAVIKA SANGGHVI TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, JANUARY 28, 2005 11:33:20 PM ] Sign into earnIndiatimes points "In a sense, I am more a Hindu; I like Hindu religion more than anything else at this moment," says the bottle-blonde pop star who has carved a niche for himself as a 'thinking rocker' and bequeathed the word 'synchronicity' to teen talk. "For me as an artist, it was important to be brought up in the Christian tradition; it is very rich in imagery. And of course I still use that, there is a great deal of awareness with that. But I would not consider myself a Christian any longer. My beliefs are much wider than that. I don't believe God is necessarily a Catholic or Islamic or anything's a much larger concept than that..." he asserts. As is to be expected, there is a lot of feel-good about India. "I visit India very often. I spent the last New Year here. I was in the desert near Jaisalmer. I think my favourite city is probably Benares. There's something very magical about it. There's a Shiva temple there that's fallen halfway into the Ganges and I find that such a wonderful, powerful image... it will stay with me for a long time. There are many places in India that I haven't been too. And I will spend the rest of my life discovering your wonderful country. I've become addicted to it." Sting — aka Gordon Sumner — who will perform for tsunami relief on February 4 in Bangalore and February 6 in New Delhi, admires Indian musicians. "I know Ravishankar very well and his wonderful daughter. I know a great deal about Indian music and have tried to understand its intricacies. I am aware how complex ragas are and how specific the rhythm is." A highlight of his performance is the presence of a female dancer behind the singer who is viewed on a screen as he performs. "She's like the female deity in this world...I think we need more of the goddess in our lives," he says.

Posted by: rhytha Feb 3 2005, 09:47 AM

Gandhi in an Italian Ad..

Posted by: Viren Feb 3 2005, 03:03 PM

> > >Our Santaji is in a Quiz Contest trying to win > prize money of Rs 1 crore > > >............ and............. The questions are > as follows : > > > > > > > > > 1) How long was the 100 yr war ? > > > > > > A ) 116 > > > B ) 99 > > > C ) 100 > > > D ) 150 > > > > > > ..............Santa says "I will skip this" > > > > > > > > > 2) In which country are the Panama hats made > ? > > > > > > A ) BRASIL > > > B ) CHILE > > > C ) PANAMA > > > D ) EQUADOR > > > > > > ............Santa asks for help from the > University students > > > > > > > > > 3) In which month do the Russians celebrate > the October evolution > > > > > > A ) JANUARY > > > B ) SEPTEMBER > > > C ) OCTOBER > > > D ) NOVEMBER > > > > > > ...................Santa asks for help from > general public > > > > > > > > > 4) Which of these is King George VI first > name ? > > > > > > A ) EDER > > > B ) ALBERT > > > C ) GEORGE > > > D ) MANOEL > > > > > > ......................Santa asks for lucky > cards > > > > > > > > > 5) The Canary islands , in the Pacific Ocean, > has its name based on > > >which > > > > > >animal : > > > > > > A ) CANARY BIRD > > > B ) KANGAROO > > > C ) PUPPY > > > D ) RAT > > > > > > ............Santa gives up > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >If u think you are indeed clever and laughed at > our Santa, look at the > > >correct > > >answers below !!!! > > > > > >................. scroll down........... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Answers: > > > > > > 1) The 100 year war lasted 116 years from > 1337-1453 > > > > > > 2) the Panama hat is made in Equador > > > > > > 3) The October revolution is celebrated in > November > > > > > > 4) King George's first name was Albert. He > changed his name in 1936. > > > > > > 5) Puppy. The Latin name is INSULARIA > CANARIA which means islands > >of > > >the > > >puppies. > > >

Posted by: Viren Feb 3 2005, 08:39 PM

Posted by: Viren Feb 7 2005, 09:45 AM

Download Hindi songs - legally.

Posted by: Reggie Feb 19 2005, 09:27 AM

My country men who do not help me perform my duty are meaner than my Pakistani enemy. If I am given the duty to shoot a Pakistani and an Indian Railway conductor, I will shoot the conductor first. omg.gif Beautiful! An ex-Armyman, now in the police force opines in BR (Mekala, Feb. 19th, Military section, Testosterone, Machogiri and Indiscipline thread.

Posted by: Mudy Feb 19 2005, 12:23 PM

Reggie, I will do the same. specool.gif

Posted by: Viren Feb 23 2005, 08:12 PM ARAB TIMES (KUWAIT), POSTED ON 2/16/2005 A STORY OF TWO MENTALITIES By Ali Al-Baghli Former Minister of Oil

IN the Fifties of the last century we saw the establishment of a new alliance, which claimed it would face the superpowers in the West headed by the United States and the superpowers of the East led by the Soviet Union. The result of the confrontation between these powers was called "the Cold War." The new alliance - known as the Non-Aligned Movement - was founded by leaders such as Jawaharlal Nehru of India, Sukarno of Indonesia, Gamal Abdul Nasser of Egypt, Marshall Tito of Yugoslavia and several others with lesser reputation. The idea wasn't a 100 per cent success because some of the founder members split to join one of the superpowers. Egypt sided with Soviet Union when the World Bank, under instructions from the US, refused to finance the construction of the Aswan Dam in the early Sixties. The purpose for formation of the Non-Aligned Movement was buried once and for all. Members of the Non-Aligned Movement were victims of the circumstances because most of them had just won their independence. There were other conflicts. While Nehru favored peace, development and democracy Gamal Abdul Nasser - who had erased the word "democracy"from his dictionary - was all for posing challenges, and building his army at the expense of development. To be honest the development of Egypt was in the mind of Abdul Nasser but countries don't get developed merely through good intentions. If we compare the achievements of these two countries we will be surprised. India, which favoured peace and democracy, has made a quantum jump and progressed in many fields. Currently the name of India is synonymous with scientific and technological achievements. It has entered the space age by launching several satellites for communication and educational purposes since the Eighties. Most of these satellites were made in India and the last one - "Edusat" meant exclusively for educational purposes - was launched in September 2004. India has become a pioneer in the field of research and development. Several factors such as quality, integrity, and low costs have helped India to become a destination for such scientific projects. The number of Indian companies which have signed contracts with international companies for research development is increasing by the day. Recently, India has found a new source of income - medical tourism. Indian doctors, who have a lot of experience in modern medicine, have placed their country on the international map of health care. The traditional Indian health treatments are an added attraction for prospective health tourists. In the field of movie industry, India's Bollywood stands second in the world next to Hollywood. Of late India has strongly entered the world of fashion and designing. It has achieved huge success and amazing developments in a variety of fields because it favoured democracy, peace, development and is strongly against any kind of extremism. Isn't it enough that hundreds of millions of Indians, who are mostly non Muslim, are being ruled by a Muslim President Abdul Kalam. The Indian President is neither an army officer nor the son of any former President. But he has the credentials of an unmatched scientist. The difference between us and a country like India is our Arab mentality. Our mentality has led us to where we are now while the mentality of Indians has pushed them to their current high position.

Posted by: Mudy Mar 5 2005, 10:08 PM ohmy.gif

Posted by: k.ram Mar 11 2005, 08:50 AM

Some interesting history trivia. I found these rather amusing. In George Washington's days, there were no cameras. One's image was either sculpted or painted. Some paintings of George Washington showed him standing behind a desk with one arm behind his back while others showed both legs and both arms. Prices charged by painters were not based on how many people were to be painted, but by how many limbs were to be painted. Arms and legs are "limbs," therefore painting them would cost the buyer more. Hence the expression, "Okay, but it'll cost you an arm and a leg." *********************************************************** As incredible as it sounds, men and women took baths only twice a year (May and October)! Women kept their hair covered, while men shaved their heads (because of lice and bugs) and wore wigs. Wealthy men could afford good wigs made from wool. They couldn't wash the wigs, so to clean them they would carve out a loaf of bread, put the wig in the shell, and bake it for 30 minutes. The heat would make the wig big and fluffy, hence the term "big wig." Today we often use the term "here comes the Big Wig" because someone appears to be or is powerful and wealthy. ********************************************************** In the late 1700s, many houses consisted of a large room with only one chair. Commonly, a long wide board folded down from the wall, and was used for dining. The "head of the household" always sat in the chair while everyone else ate sitting on the floor. Occasionally a guest, who was usually a man, would be invited to sit in this chair during a meal. To sit in the chair meant you were important and in charge. They called the one sitting in the chair the "chair man." Today in business, we use the expression or title "Chairman" or "Chairman of the Board." *********************************************************** Personal hygiene left much room for improvement. As a result, many women and men had developed acne scars by adulthood. The women would spread bee's wax over their facial skin to smooth out their complexions. When they were speaking to each other, if a woman began to stare at another woman's face she was told, "mind your own bee's wax." Should the woman smile, the wax would crack, hence the term "crack a smile." In addition, when they sat too close to the fire, the wax would melt . . . therefore, the expression "losing face." *********************************************************** Ladies wore corsets, which would lace up in the front. A proper and dignified woman. as in "straight laced". . . wore a tightly tied lace. *********************************************************** Common entertainment included playing cards. However, there was a tax levied when purchasing playing cards but only applicable to the "Ace of Spades." To avoid paying the tax, people would purchase 51 cards instead. Yet, since most games require 52 cards, these people were thought to be stupid or dumb because they weren't "playing with a full deck." *********************************************************** Early politicians required feedback from the public to determine what the people considered important. Since there were no telephones, TV's or radios, the politicians sent their assistants to local taverns, pubs, and bars. They were told to "go sip some ale" and listen to people's conversations and political concerns. Many assistants were dispatched at different times. "You go sip here" and "You go sip there." The two words "go sip" were eventually combined when referring to the local opinion and, thus we have the term "gossip." *********************************************************** At local taverns, pubs, and bars, people drank from pint and quart sized containers. A bar maid's job was to keep an eye on the customers and keep the drinks coming. She had to pay close attention and remember who was drinking in "pints" and who was drinking in "quarts," hence the term "minding your "P's and Q's." *********************************************************** One more: bet you didn't know this! In the heyday of sailing ships, all war ships and many freighters carried iron cannons. Those cannons fired round iron cannon balls. It was necessary to keep a good supply near the cannon. However, how to prevent them from rolling about the deck? The best storage method devised was a square based pyramid with one ball on top, resting on four resting on nine, which rested on sixteen. Thus, a supply of 30 cannon balls could be stacked in a small area right next to the cannon. There was only one to prevent the bottom layer from sliding or rolling from under the others. The solution was a metal plate called a "Monkey" with 16 round indentations. However, if this plate were made of iron, the iron balls would quickly rust to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make "Brass Monkeys." Few landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than iron when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the brass indentations would shrink so much that the iron cannonballs would come right off the monkey. Thus, it was quite literally, "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey." (All this time, you thought that was an improper expression, didn't you.) You must send this fabulous bit of historic knowledge to unsuspecting friends. If you don't, your floppy is going to fall off your hard drive and kill your mouse.

Posted by: Sunder Mar 11 2005, 09:42 AM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Mar 11 2005, 09:20 PM)
In the heyday of sailing ships, all war ships and many freighters carried iron cannons. Those cannons fired round iron cannon balls. It was necessary to keep a good supply near the cannon. However, how to prevent them from rolling about the deck? The best storage method devised was a square based pyramid with one ball on top, resting on four resting on nine, which rested on sixteen. Thus, a supply of 30 cannon balls could be stacked in a small area right next to the cannon. There was only one to prevent the bottom layer from sliding or rolling from under the others. The solution was a metal plate called a "Monkey" with 16 round indentations. However, if this plate were made of iron, the iron balls would quickly rust to it. The solution to the rusting problem was to make "Brass Monkeys." Few landlubbers realize that brass contracts much more and much faster than iron when chilled. Consequently, when the temperature dropped too far, the brass indentations would shrink so much that the iron cannonballs would come right off the monkey. Thus, it was quite literally, "Cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey." (All this time, you thought that was an improper expression, didn't you.) You must send this fabulous bit of historic knowledge to unsuspecting friends. If you don't, your floppy is going to fall off your hard drive and kill your mouse.

Posted by: rama harish Mar 22 2005, 03:17 PM

I'm wanting to know on puttaparthi Sai baba , a google search on him gave me various impressions. I'm from AP, but dont have a clue about him. Please share some light regarding him. Is he a Anti-Hindu? Anti-Indian?, pardon me if you find my words offensive.

Posted by: Kaushal Mar 22 2005, 11:07 PM

I am not a disciple of Puttaparthi sai baba. But I know many who are. He is neither anti-Hindu nor anti-Indian. His teachings are consonant with traditional Hinduism. In addition he does a lot of good work, in terms of runnng educational institutions and hospitals. May God bless him and may India be blessed with more Sai Babas.

Posted by: Pathmarajah Mar 23 2005, 01:37 AM

You might find this interesting: Afro-Americans' Inventions without which the world would not be the same. AFRO AMRICAN INVENTORS' A very humorous and revealing story is told about a group of white people who were fed up with African Americans, so they joined together and wished themselves away. They passed through a deep dark tunnel and emerged in sort of a twilight zone where there is an America without black people. At first these white people breathed a sigh of relief. At last, they said, No more crime, drugs, violence and welfare. All of the blacks have gone! Then suddenly, reality set in. The "NEW AMERICA" is not America at all-only a barren land. 1. There are very few crops that have flourished because the nation was built on a slave-supported system. 2. There are no cities with tall skyscrapers because Alexander Mils, a black man, invented the elevator, and without it, one finds great difficulty reaching higher floors. 3. There are few if any cars because Richard Spikes, a black man, invented the automatic gearshift, Joseph Gambol, also black, invented the Super Charge System for Internal Combustion Engines, and Garrett A. Morgan, a black man, invented the traffic signals. 4. Furthermore, one could not use the rapid transit system because its precursor was the electric trolley, which was invented by another black man, Albert R. Robinson. 5. Even if there were streets on which cars and a rapid transit system could operate, they were cluttered with paper because an African American, Charles Brooks, invented the street sweeper. 6. There were few if any newspapers, magazines and books because John Love invented the pencil sharpener, William Purveys invented the fountain pen, and Lee Barrage invented the Type Writing Machine and W. A. Love invented the Advanced Printing Press. They were all, you guessed it, Black. 7. Even if Americans could write their letters, articles and books, they would not have been transported by mail because William Barry invented the Postmarking and Canceling Machine, William Purveys invented the Hand Stamp and Philip Downing invented the Letter Drop. 8. The lawns were brown and wilted because Joseph Smith invented the Lawn Sprinkler and John Burr the Lawn Mower. 9. When they entered their homes, they found them to be poorly ventilated and poorly heated. You see, Frederick Jones invented the Air Conditioner and Alice Parker the Heating Furnace. Their homes were also dim. But of course, Lewis Later invented the Electric Lamp, Michael Harvey invented the lantern and Granville T. Woods invented the Automatic Cut off Switch. Their homes were also filthy because Thomas W. Steward invented the Mop and Lloyd P. Ray the Dust Pan. 10. Their children met them at the door-barefooted, shabby, motley and unkempt. But what could one expect? Jan E. Matzelinger invented the Shoe Lasting Machine, Walter Sammons! invented the Comb, Sarah Boone invented the Ironing Board and George T. Samon invented the Clothes Dryer. 11. Finally, they were resigned to at least have dinner amidst all of this turmoil. But here again, the food had spoiled because another Black Man, John Standard invented the refrigerator. Now, isn't that something? What would this country be like without the contributions of Blacks, as African-Americans? Martin Luther King, Jr. said, "by the time we leave for work, Americans have depended on the inventions from the minds of Blacks." Black history includes more than just slavery, Frederick Douglass, Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X, and Marcus Garvey & W.E.B. Dubois.

Posted by: rama harish Mar 23 2005, 11:41 AM

Sri.Kaushal Ji That is what i heard from aunt, who is a pious follower of puttaparthi baba. But, I still remember a local newspaper in AP ( Deccan Chronicle)which run a sting of operations against him, by posting pictures of him doing con tricks, and published articles on him which portray him as a smuggler and yada yada. That seriosuly blowed the mind set of many kids, especially the students from my school. As far as his free medical and social services go, i heard so much good about them. deccan chronicle ( editor: Mj Akbar, Owner: Some reddy (he is a crypto christian like chief minister of Andhra pradesh) )

Posted by: Viren Mar 23 2005, 03:40 PM

QUOTE A peace prize winner makes war on America. BY TUNKU VARADARAJAN Friday, December 3, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST "But who is Osama bin Laden really? Let me rephrase that. What is Osama bin Laden? He's America's family secret. He's the American president's dark doppelganger. . . . He has been sculpted from the spare rib of a world laid to waste by America's foreign policy . . . [and] its merciless economic agenda that has munched through the economies of poor countries like a cloud of locusts." --Arundhati Roy, Sept. 29, 2001 When a friend learned that I was pondering a piece critical of Ms. Roy--the Indian author of "The God of Small Things" and, subsequently, of numerous pamphlets whose leftist politics is so utterly devoid of nuance that they make Eric Alterman's columns read like David Brooks's--he e-mailed me reprovingly to ask whether that would not be a bit like shooting fish in a barrel. But second thoughts can strike at the speed of light. No sooner had he hit the "send" button than he hit it again: "There are certain fish, however, in certain barrels, that cannot be ignored." Ms. Roy has just been awarded the Sydney Peace Prize. Of course, that is not a big deal except in Sydney--and maybe, more broadly, in liberal Australian circles. And the $50,000 she received (Aussie not Yankee) is chump change so far as prizes of this sort go, slightly less than $40,000 in U.S. currency. Besides, she isn't keeping the money but donating it to aboriginal survivors of the Australian Genocide. The reason I thrust Ms. Roy before you is not to dwell on a picayune peace prize but to draw your attention to remarks she made on television while she was in Australia, a country whose soldiers are fighting--and dying--in Iraq. Ms. Roy made an appeal to people to "become the Iraqi resistance," adding that activists "need to understand that Iraq is engaging in the frontlines of empire and we have to throw our weight behind the Iraqi resistance." (take the b(h)ooker prize back, take it back...)Now it cannot have escaped Ms. Roy's attention that the "resistance" of which she speaks--and which she exhorts the world to "become"--kills innocent Iraqis daily, by bomb, by gun and by cutlass. Beheading people--Iraqi and Western, Muslim and infidel--is the macabre signature of this "resistance." Yet she persists in her refusal to condemn their evil and attacks, instead, the very side that allows her to flourish, to opine, to Be Important. A certain segment of the American intelligentsia connects gleefully with exotic leftists like Ms. Roy. In fact, the Ms. Roys of our age, and their fans and subsidy-givers in the West, enjoy a touching symbiosis. Arundhati Roy, I'd venture to say, is George Soros's political poster girl. The real epicenter of outrage for Ms. Roy lies not in Iraq but in Washington. The whole world is a stage for a morality play that casts the U.S., and all who support it, as diabolical. Ms. Roy and her type pay the ultimate compliment to America by holding that all world events occur at America's behest and that the six billion non-Americans on the planet are but helpless pawns, incapable of doing anything--especially anything bad--without Uncle Sam's imprimatur. Accepting her Sydney prize, Ms Roy frothed up like a cappuccino laced with arsenic: "As the battle to control the world's resources intensifies, economic colonialism through formal military aggression is staging a comeback. Iraq is the logical culmination of the process of corporate globalization in which neo-colonialism and neo-liberalism have fused. If we can find it in ourselves to peep behind the curtain of blood, we would glimpse the pitiless transactions taking place backstage." This is sophistry masquerading as protest, rage unhinged from fact. In her mind there is no history in Iraq, no Saddam, no context; there's just one more chapter of America doing down brown people. Third-Worldism, preachy nonalignment: They had both become so outdated. But American action abroad--in Iraq, in Afghanistan--has, alas, given Ms. Roy and her kind the chance to dust off the discarded manuals. What a joy for her--the old verities again! Never mind that the present battle is against those who would extinguish everything she values, and extinguish her own country--India--to boot. The system Ms. Roy deplores has furnished her with a cordon of comfort: freedom of speech, and respect for women's views (not, by the way, Osama's strongest suit). Hers is a kind of infantile rebellion against the structure that houses her. Ms. Roy's celebrated book, her lavish claim to fame, told us of "small things." Now one marvels only at the smallness of her mind--and wishes, prays, that she would grow up. Just a teeny bit. Mr. Varadarajan is editorial features editor of The Wall Street Journal.
Think Dotty's US visa is toast?

Posted by: Mudy Mar 28 2005, 10:17 PM

Cow abuse: Tension across border villages Mohit Kandhari/ Pargwal (Jammu) Tension mounted across the border villages of Pargwal sector, 45 kms from here, Monday morning following reports of an "unnatural offence" committed against a cow. The shocking news spread like wild fire as hundreds of villagers came out on the streets demanding strict action against the culprits. Shopkeepers downed their shutters, burnt effigies, marched on the streets and stopped vehicular movement. Senior police officers were rushed to the spot to contain the damage. However, no arrest has been made yet. Animal rights activists and several religious leaders in Jammu condemned the act and called for immediate inquiry into the incident. The owner of the cow, Kuldeep Raj, told reporters that the incident came to light on Monday morning when he came to milk his cow. "First of all I noticed back legs of the cow were tied with ropes and she had bruised legs. Then I spotted a few drops of blood in the cow shed. Convinced that the motive was not milk but something else, I immediately raised an alarm and rushed to the village elders to ascertain what happened to the cow in the course of the night," he told reporters pointing towards the cow standing mute testimony to the unnatural offence committed on her. Milkhi Raj, the village sarpanch, claimed the area is dominated by one community and none from the community could ever dare commit such a heinous crime against the cow. "We have to find the culprits so that we can teach them a lesson," he told reporters. SDPO Akhnoor Ashok Sharma told reporters that veterinary doctors have been called to collect samples for further investigations. "We will send the same to the forensic science laboratory for ascertaining the real reasons," he added. A case has been registered and investigations are on, the police said. Meanwhile, the village sarpanch claimed their demonstrations will continue until the culprits were brought to book: "It is not a routine crime; the culprit has hurt our religious sentiments by committing an unnatural offence on our mother cow."

Posted by: k.ram Apr 6 2005, 06:11 AM

Posted by: Viren Apr 6 2005, 06:35 AM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Apr 6 2005, 09:11 AM)

Posted by: k.ram Apr 6 2005, 09:55 AM

Folks interested in this paper, drop me a message for the full paper.....

Reconsidering spatial and temporal aspects of prehistoric cultural identity: a case study from the American Southwest. American Antiquity; 1/1/2005; Bernardini, Wesley Archaeologists have tended to overemphasize spatial and temporal boundaries between social groups at the expense of crosscutting and historical links. This bias is rooted in ethnographic conceptions of cultural identity and fails to make use of the time depth that is archaeology's primary advantage in the study of human behavior. An emphasis on synchronic, bounded spatial units like culture areas has obscured diachronic dimensions of identity, especially linear and historical constructs that are common among many indigenous groups. Incorporating these indigenous perspectives into archaeological research is a productive means of advancing archaeological theory and practice regarding identity. A case study from the American Southwest illustrates this approach. Archaeological approaches to cultural identity have long tended to overemphasize spatial and temporal boundaries at the expense of crosscutting and historical linkages between social groups. This bias is rooted in ethnographic conceptions of cultural identity and fails to make use of the time depth that is archaeology's primary advantage in the study of human behavior. The "culture area" archaeological approach, borrowed from classic ethnography, divides a social landscape into named, territorial blocks encompassing co-varying material traits such as ceramic styles, house forms, and burial practices. Traditionally, these co-varying traits have been assumed to reflect the common character of the population contained within the culture area, corresponding roughly to a "tribal" identity. An emphasis on synchronic, bounded spatial units like culture areas has obscured diachronic dimensions of identity, especially linear and historical constructs that are common among the traditional histories of many indigenous groups. By allowing territorial divisions to serve as a normative structure for our research, we essentially allow space to function "as a central organizing principle ... at the same time that it disappears from analytical purview" (Gupta and Ferguson 1992:7). This practice also essentializes the identities of indigenous groups as static and timeless, in implicit contrast to the dynamic evolution of Western societies (Gosden 2001). This study presents a strategy for escaping the intellectual confines of "place-based" approaches and improving the practice of discovering and understanding cultural identity in the past. The strategy includes borrowing from Native American traditional knowledge an emphasis on time rather than space as the critical variable in understanding cultural identity. This diachronic approach is argued to permit a more accurate reconstruction of prehistoric social dynamics. A case study of migration in the late prehistoric American Southwest illustrates the cumulative, historical aspects of identity and provides a clear contrast to culture area-based reconstructions that employ bounded spatiotemporal units of identity.

Posted by: rama harish Apr 8 2005, 07:54 PM

"Ancient India" was Pakistan region, not present-day India! < wtf $$$ :super mad Typed by some John keays on some pakistani hisorty website. It's so irritating to see all this crap. Why are we Indians being discredited for everything ? 1.There is already a big propaganda going on about sanskrit being a child of euro-centric lingos. 2. Yoga- Tonnes of Yoga instructors in USA and around the world dont even know where yoga is from.. Very soon yoga will be 'historically manipulated' to have been developed in the extinct indus valley civilization and not Indians. ( Big time commerical yoga websites, dont even utter the word 'India' , whilst murmuring some sanskrit words) A big time sham - Bikram Yoga , shame on you my dear ... :right hand thumbs down and left hand middle finger up why is the government of India behaving so reckless or are they ignoring wantedly ?

Maps printed after 1947 sometimes show the republic of India not as `India' but as `Bharat'. The word derives from Bharata- varsha, `the land of the Bharatas', these Bharatas being the most prominent and distinguished of the early Vedic clans. By adopting this term the new republic in Delhi could, it was argued, lay claim to a revered arya heritage which was geographically vague enough not to provoke regional jealousies, and doctrinally vague enough not to jeopardize the republic's avowed secularism. In the first flush of independence `Bharat' would seem preferable, because the word `India' was too redolent of colonial disparagement. It also lacked a respectable indigenous pedigree. For although British claims to have incubated an `India consciousness' were bitterly contested, there was no gainsaying the fact that in the whole colossal corpus of Sanskrit literature nowhere called `India' is ever mentioned; nor does the term occur in Buddhist or Jain texts; nor was it current in any South Asia's numerous other languages. Worse still, if etymologically `India' belonged anywhere, it was not to the republic proclaimed in Delhi by Jawaharlal Nehru but to its rival headed by Mohammed Ali Jinnah in Pakistan. Partition would have a way of dividing the subcontinent's spoils with scant reference to history. No tussle over the word `India' is reported because Jinnah preferred the newly coined and very Islamic-sounding acronym that is `Pakistan'. Additionally, he was under the impression that neither state would want to adopt the British title of `India'. He only discovered his mistake after Lord Mountbatten, the last British viceroy, had already acceded to Nehru's demand that his state remain `India'. Jinnah, according to Mountbatten, `was absolutely furious when he found out that they (Nehru and the Congress Party) were going to call themselves India'. The use of the word implied a subcontinental primacy which Pakistan would never accept. It also flew in the face of history, since `India' originally referred exclusively to territory in the vicinity of the Indus river (with which the word is cognate). Hence it was largely outside the republic of India but largely within Pakistan. The reservations about the word `India', which had convinced Jinnah that neither side would use it, stemmed from its historical currency amongst outsiders, especially outsiders who had designs on the place. Something similar could, of course, be said about terms like `Britian', `Germany' or `America'; when first these words were recorded, all were objects of conquest. But in the case of `India' this demeaning connotation had lasted until modern times. `Hindustan', `India' or `the Indies' (its more generalized derivative) had come, as if by definition, to denote an acquisition rather than a territory. Geographically imprecise, indeed moveable if one took account of all the `Indians' in the Americas, `India' was yet conceptually concrete: it was somewhere to be coveted – as an intellectual curiosity, a military pushover and an economic bonanza. To Alexander the Great as to Mahmud of Ghazni, to Timur the Lame as to his Mughal descendents, and to Nadir Shah of Persia as to Robert Clive of Plassey, `India' was a place worth the taking. The first occurrence of the word sets the trend. It makes its debut in an inscription found at Persepolis in Iran, which was the capital of the Persian or Achaemenid empire of Darius I, he whose far-flung battles included defeat at Marathon by the Athenians in 490 BC. Before this, Darius had evidently enjoyed greater success on his eastern frontier, for the Persepolis inscription, dated to 518 BC, lists amongst his numerous domains that of `Hi(n)du'. The word for a `river' in Sanskrit is sindhu. Hence sapta-sindhu meant `(the land of) the seven rivers', which was what the Vedic arya called the Panjab. The Indus, to which most of these seven rivers were tributary, was the sindhu par excellence; and in the language of ancient Persian, a near relative of Sanskrit, the initial `s' of a Sanskrit word was invariably rendered as an apirate – `h'. Soma, the mysterious hallucinogen distilled, deified and drunk to excess by the Vedic arya, is thus homa or haoma in old Persian; and sindhu is thus Hind(h)u. When, from Persian, the word found its way into Greek, the initial aspirate was dropped, and it started to appear as the route `Ind' (as in `India', `Indus', etc.). In this form it reached Latin and most other European languages. However, in Arabic and related languages it retained the initial `h', giving `Hindustan' as the name by which Turks and Mughals would know India. That word also passed on to Europe to give `Hindu' as the name of the country's indigenous people and of what, by Muslims and Christians alike, was regarded as their infidel religion. On the strength of a slightly earlier Iranian inscription which makes no mention of Hindu, it is assumed that the region was added to Daruis' Achaemenid empire in or soon after 520 BC. This earlier inscription does, however, refer to `Gadara', which looks like Gandhara, a maha-janapada or `state' mentioned in both Sanskrit and Buddhist sources and located in an arc reaching the western Panjab through the north-west frontier to Kabul and perhaps into southern Afghanistan (where `Kandahar' is the same word). According to Xenophon and Herodotus, Gandhara had been conquered by Cyrus, on of Darius' predecessors. The first Achaemenid or Persian invasion may therefore have taken place as early as the mid-sixth century BC. That it was an invasion, rather than a migration or even perhaps a last belated influx of charioteering arya, seems likely from a reference to Cyrus dying a wound inflicted by the enemy. The enemy were the `Derbikes'; they enjoyed the support of the Hindu people and were supplied by them with war-elephants. In Persian and Greek minds alike, the association of Hindu with elephants was thereafter almost as significant as its connection with the mighty Indus. To Alexander of Macedon, following in the Achaemanids' footsteps two centuries later, the river would be a geographical curiosity, but the elephants were a military obsession. If Gandhara was already under Achaemenid rule, Darius' Hindu must have lain beyond it, and so to the south or east. Later Iranian records refer to Sindhu, presumably an adoption of the Sanskrit spelling, whence derives the word `Sind', now Pakistan's southernmost province. It seems unlikely though, that Sindhu was Sind in the late sixth century BC, since Darius subsequently found it necessary to send a naval expedition to explore the Indus. Flowing through the middle of Sind, the river would surely have been familiar to any suzerain of the region. More probably, then, Hindu lay east of Gandhara, perhaps as a wedge of territory between it, the jana-padas of eastern Panjab, and deserts of Rajasthan. It thus occupied much of what is now the Panjab province of Pakistan. Under Xerxes, Darius' successor, troops from what had become the Achaemenids' combined `satrapy' of Gandhara and Hindu reportedly served in the Achaemenid forces. These Indians were mostly archers, although cavalry and chariots are also mentioned; they fought as far as eatern Europe; and some were present at the Persians' victory over Leonidas and his Spartans at Thermopylae, and then at the decisive defeat by the Greeks at Plataea. Through these and other less fraught contacts between Greeks ad Persians, Greek writers like Herodotus gleaned some idea of `India'. Compared to the intervening lands of Anatolia and Iran, it appeared a veritable paradise of exotic plenty. Herodotus told of an immense population and the richest soil imaginable from which kindly ants, smaller than dogs but bigger than foxes, threw up hillocks of pure gold-dust. The ants may have intrigued entomologists, but the gold was registered in political circles. With rivers to rival the Nile and behemoths from which to give battle, it was clearly a land of fantasy as well as wealth. Herodotus, of course, knew only of the Indus region, and that by hearsay. Hence he did not report that the land of Hindu was of sensational extent, nor did he deny the popular belief that beyond its furthest desert, where in reality the Gangetic plain interminably spreads, lay the great ocean which supposedly encircled the world; Hindu or `India' (but in fact Pakistan) was therefore believed to be the end of terra firma, a worthy culmination to any emperor's ambitions as well as a fabulous addition to his portfolio of conquests. In abbreviated form, Herodotus' History circulated widely. A hundred years after his death it was still avidly read by northern Greeks in Macedonia, where a teenage Alexander `knew it well enough to quote and follow its stories'.

Posted by: k.ram Apr 9 2005, 07:02 AM

From: lucky Subject: SWISS AIR FLIGHT TO MUMBAI ON 8 DECEMBER 2004 My husband and I (Balasubramanian Thiagarajan, and Lakshmi Ramachandran) travelled with our son by Swiss air on the day mentioned in the subject line of this mail. The flight experience was most unsatisfactory and deeply annoying as one of the air-hostesses (Ms Esther) and the staff in general behaved in a shockingly rude and racist manner throughout the flight. We saw Ms Esther behave badly to two passengers sitting beside and in front of us. When the gentleman next to us asked for the meal he had missed while asleep Ms Esther wanted to know if he was sure that he was not trying to eat two meals. She shouted at the gentleman sitting in front of us several times - rudely reprimanding him when he got up from his seat a couple of times - and when he asked for food from the trolley. She accused him of reaching out for the trolley. Both gentlemen did not speak English well - one not at all - and were at a loss for an answer. Ms Esther's behavior was distinctly racist. She was most servile and sweet spoken to the white people on board. She in particular targeted those Indians who did not speak English. We hold Swiss airlines responsible for the reprehensible behavior of their crew and have resolved against travelling by this airline in future. I hope Swill airline will have the decency to discipline their staff for their racist attitudes. Regards Lakshmi Ramachandran

Posted by: rama harish Apr 10 2005, 05:09 AM

NEWINDPRESS.COM has been bought by the rome and the royals. Please look at the below imageℑ=newroyalpresss2uh.jpg Can anyone please tell me who owns/runs this royal british newspaper aka southindian ?

Posted by: Mudy Apr 10 2005, 08:39 AM

Can anyone please tell me who owns/runs this royal british newspaper aka southindian ?
Indian Express splinter group.

Posted by: Sunder Apr 10 2005, 06:04 PM

Posted by: utepian Apr 26 2005, 08:23 AM

Is this the right place to post technical issues? Well, I use the Firefox browser. An irritating part of using FF while posting messages is that the clickable BB code does not fall at the intended place. It always falls at the end of the post. Is this a problem with the India-Forum code or should I raise the matter in the FF forums?

Posted by: Viren Apr 26 2005, 08:49 AM

utepian, Could be a combination of FF and Invision software used here. Never had problem with IE. Techies can look at it. Will PM you on this.

Posted by: rajesh_g Apr 26 2005, 10:41 AM

My guess is that this javascript related. In IE you can get the position of the cursor while in FF there isnt a way - hence it always ends up at the end.. sad.gif

Posted by: utepian Apr 26 2005, 01:13 PM

Rajesh: The PHPBB forum has a Mod for this problem. This is not an urgent matter, but if you can please raise the issue with our vendors Invision that might help.

Posted by: utepian May 2 2005, 09:18 AM

OK, hard nosed Firefox users, is the solution for the "BBcode at the click of a button problem" biggrin.gif

Adds BBCode/HTML/XHTML formating to the context menu for forums like Mozillazine.
After installing the extension, whenever you post on India-forum, remember to right-mouse click inside the post. This will give you an option called BBCode. you should find all regular BBCode functions with this option. The cursor falls at the right place and codes appear aligned with the highlighted text etc. Yeah for such smileys such as pakee.gif, need to work on an IF specific extension.

Posted by: rama harish May 14 2005, 01:49 AM

Einstein and Heisenberg in thier own voice around 500 KB - rar file

Posted by: sayvari May 15 2005, 09:32 PM

I am looking for answers to a question. Did Pakistan use MUSTARD GAS during the war in 1960's, since my father-in-law who is a Dr. (Major) has a momento, a piece from the shell of the bomb which fired an acid like substance which flowed through the trenches roasted a number of soldiers mercilessly. If this is true howcome such an instance never made to the Newspapers. Similar instances were qouted about the Americans during the Vietnam war and the timing matches the 1960's. A response would be appreciated. I have sent a similar email to the moderators at BRF. Sayvari

Posted by: Mudy May 16 2005, 08:33 AM No mention of use of Mustard Gas.

Posted by: vinod May 17 2005, 04:53 AM

hello friends, Does anybody here doing electronics and having the notes on video game elements. If yes Please mail me at

Posted by: eswarpr May 17 2005, 08:33 AM

I tried to get attention in the "Member Introduction" forum. I will try it here. If anyone knows or have interacted with Pundits from Jammu Kashmir could you please send me a PM or an e-mail? I need information on the lifestyle and community interaction of the Pundits with others in Jammu Kashmir. This is for a project I am doing. I will discuss the project with people who contact me. Please no Pakistani stooges, or prejudiced or biased people. I would expect a clear factual and accurate picture of communal relations in post Paki invasion in Jammu and Kashmir. Thanks, Eswar

Posted by: sayvari May 21 2005, 09:36 PM

I came across a Kashmiri Pandits Forum, on there wer quite a few Muslims also on it, looked genuine. You can give it a try. Sayvari

Posted by: Gus May 29 2005, 04:21 PM

Are the first threads of the Islamism discussion threads of BR hosted anywhere? does anybody have the archive? can u pl give a link or send it to me via email. TIA.

Posted by: Nikhil Jun 4 2005, 01:24 AM

Hello, bhai log, anyone here works at CISCO and can avail some employee discount on CISCO SWITCH, I am in urgent need of Cisco Catlyst 3550 48 port EMI. Brand new from Cisco is lik $5000, but employees get upto 75% discount from cisco rolleyes.gif .. so anyone here can help me out:) smile.gif

Posted by: Bharatvarsh Jun 4 2005, 07:15 AM

anyone know what happened to Varsha Bhosle, the pro hindu rediff columnist. Was she kicked out of rediff and is she writing for any other newspaper now.

Posted by: Mudy Jun 4 2005, 07:44 AM

Yes, she was kicked out off Rediff. Early this year we have requested her to write for us. Still waiting for response.

Posted by: Bharatvarsh Jun 4 2005, 07:50 AM

How come, I thought rediff gave space to both rightists and leftists, did a new p-sec editor take over rediff or what. Also if anyone didn't know Varsha Bhosle is the daughter of singer Asha Bhosle, here's link where she talks about her moher (the article Saturday's Child): Mudy will check out the archives.

Posted by: Mudy Jun 4 2005, 07:59 AM

New Management(HT) which took over Rediff asked her to leave. Check India-forum (Media in India) thread archive (Jan 2005).

Posted by: Srirangan Jun 13 2005, 08:41 AM

The Paris Air Show (Salon International de l'Aéronautique et de l'Espace, Paris-Le Bourget) is an international trade fair for the aerospace business. It is held at Le Bourget airport near Paris, France every odd year, alternating with the Farnborough International Exhibition and Flying Display. The next show will be held 13th June–19th June 2005. The Paris Air Show is a commercial air show, organised by the French aerospace industry's body the Groupement des Industries Françaises Aéronautiques et Spatiales (GIFAS) whose main purpose is to demonstrate military and civilian aircraft to potential customers. It is one of the most prestigious in the world.

Posted by: sayvari Jun 16 2005, 09:44 PM

Indians and Dogs not allowed. I was always curious since the time we read about Gandhiji being thrown out of First CLass Compartment even though he had a valid ticket, about the Notice displayed on the British run trains "Indians and Dogs not allowed". Is a photograph available or a newspaper clipping to verify about this notice on the trains. Sayvari

Posted by: Bharatvarsh Jul 18 2005, 09:53 AM

"As India goes global, it's time we broadened our definition of secularism. What does secularism mean to you today? And how do you think it will change the face of modern India? The Indian Express provides this platform for individuals to express their opinion on secularism and redefine it if they think fit." For more info go to: I think this is open to only Indian citizens so if someone here lives in India they can write the essay and hopefully some pro hindu person wins the contest.

Posted by: vishnua Jul 19 2005, 07:32 AM

is BRF down today ??

Posted by: Viren Jul 29 2005, 09:39 AM

That Feeling Of Being Under Suspicion What of "profiling" as an anti-terrorism forensic tool? Friday, July 29, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT After the terrorist bombings in London, and the revelations that many of the perpetrators were of Pakistani origin, I find that I am--for the first time in my life--part of a "group" that is under broad but emphatic visual suspicion. In other words, I fit a visual "profile," and the fit is most disconcerting. The fact that I am neither Muslim nor Pakistani is irrelevant: Who except the most absurdly expert physiognomist or anthropologist could tell from my face that I am not an Ali, or a Mohammed, or a Hassan; that my ancestors are all from deepest South India; and that my line has worshipped not Allah but Lord Shiva--mightiest deity of the Hindu pantheon--for 2,000 years? I will be mistaken for Muslim at some point--just as earlier this week in Manhattan five young men were pulled off a sightseeing bus and handcuffed by police on suspicion that they might have been Islamist terrorists. Their names, published in the papers, revealed that they were in fact all Sikhs and Hindus--something few could have established by simply looking at them. (The Sikhs here were short-haired and unturbanned.) What we had in this incident--what we must get used to--is a not irrational sequence: alarm, provoked by a belief that someone in the vicinity could do everyone around him great harm, followed instinctively by actions in which the niceties of social intercourse, the judgmental taboos that have been drilled into us, are set aside in the interest of self-preservation. Terrorism has had many effects on society, and the foremost among them are philosophical, or spiritual. We are now called upon to adjust the way we live and think, and to do so we must also adjust the bandwidth of our tolerance. By this I don't mean that we must be less tolerant of others but that some among us must learn to tolerate--or put up with--hardships, inconvenience or a new set of presumptions, given the all-consuming nature of the threat we face, in which "the profiled" and "the profilers" alike are targets. In evaluating the moral fitness of "profiling," I should stress that we are identifying people for scrutiny, not punishment. Recall the fate of Cinna the poet, in the Bard's "Julius Caesar," who is killed by a mob that believes him, because of his name, to be Cinna the conspirator. When scrutiny becomes stigma, and stigma leads to victimization, a clear jump to evil has occurred. This has not happened in America, and must not. But what of "profiling" as a forensic tool? Here, one must be satisfied either that profiling ought to be done or at least--per Bentham--that it isn't something that "ought not to be done." I am satisfied on the second count. The practice cannot be rejected with the old moral clarity. The profiling process is not precisely racial but broadly physical according to "Muslim type." (Does that make it worse or better?) The process under way now does not constitute racial profiling in the classic sense--Muslims, after all, come in flavors other than Pakistani, including white Chechens and black Somalis. But there is no getting around profiling, surely, because of the life-or-death, instant decisions involved. So we have to ask one section of society to bear up under heightened scrutiny, asking them also to work extra hard--visibly so--to expunge the threat. Meanwhile, and just as important, we must ask the rest of society not to stigmatize those who conform to the broad physical category while also not allowing feelings of racial and moral guilt to slow our society's response to danger. If I'm sounding overly nuanced on a subject that should, in the view of some, have bright moral outlines, it's because the devil resides in this predicament. We are all facing the quandary of the policeman chasing a suspect who might be armed. Does he shoot or hesitate, shout a warning and possibly get shot? In that situation, society asks that he take the risk of self-harm. In our current situation, large swaths of society might be eradicated. Suddenly we all feel like the cop, and some of us like the suspect. I am just as concerned about catching terrorists (who may look like me) as anyone else who looks different. I can ask that the searches and scrutiny be done in a professional manner, with no insults and nothing that offends my dignity. I, too, see the absurdity of subjecting Chinese grandmothers to the same level of scrutiny as people from the Indian subcontinent at the airport check-in counter. Do I like being profiled? Of course not. But my displeasure is yet another manifestation of the extraordinary power of terrorism. I am not being profiled because of racism but rather because Islamist fanatics have declared war on my society. They are the dark power that leads me to an experience in which my individuality is corroded. This is tragic; but it strengthens my resolve to support the war that seeks to destroy terrorism. Mr. Varadarajan is features editor of The Wall Street Journal.

Posted by: Viren Aug 3 2005, 07:04 AM

Manila: Indian physician V Shantha is among the winners of this year's Ramon Magsaysay awards, the award foundation said today. Shantha, awarded the Magsaysay prize for public service, was honoured for "her untiring leadership of the Cancer Institute as a centre of excellence and compassion for the study and treatment of cancer in India."

Posted by: k.ram Aug 4 2005, 03:20 PM

The Red Planet is about to be spectacular HOAX! Thanks UMan.. laugh.gif

Posted by: utepian Aug 9 2005, 11:31 AM

Ram this is a hoax. The email has been in circulation since 2003 when Mars really came close. At that time it looked like a nice bright star like this user posted image But nothing like the moon. If Mars did come close enough to rival the Moon, its gravity would alter Earth's orbit and raise terrible tides. Here's NASA's official word from JULY 7 2005 about the email:

Posted by: Capt M Kumar Aug 9 2005, 06:53 PM

'Beurger King' Muslim or BKM Muslims in France are having it their way with ``Beurger King'' - a new fast-food restaurant that caters to the country's large Islamic population. The bright and colorful eatery was launched in July in an eastern Paris suburb crowded with immigrants and dilapidated housing projects. Its name plays on the French word ``Beur,'' meaning a second-generation North African living in France. The menu at Beurger King Muslim, or BKM, is standard fast-food fare: burgers, fries, sundaes and doughnuts, and prices are comparable to those at major chains. But the beef and chicken burgers are halal - meaning made with meat slaughtered according to Islamic dietary laws. Waitresses wear Islamic head scarves, as do many of their customers. Mouna Talbi, 24, traveled 55 miles to Clichy-sous-Bois with her husband and two small sons to try it out. ``I was so happy to come here that I had tears in my eyes when I walked in,'' she said, watching her sons climb on colored blocks in the play area as she ate a halal burger. After the success of Mecca Cola, a soft drink marketed to French Muslims, it was perhaps only a matter of time before a Muslim-themed, fast-food restaurant opened in the country with Western Europe's largest Islamic population. Talbi's children always clamor for fast food, but this was the first time they've been able to order something other than fish, she said. ``A woman in Muslim dress feels at home here,'' she said, sitting in a red tunic and matching head scarf. Three Muslim friends from the Paris suburbs set up the restaurant after seeing similar restaurants in Thailand and Algeria. They saw a demand for a clean, family-oriented halal fast-food restaurant that would offer an alternative to the big non-halal chains and the many downscale halal street vendors. One of the founders, Morad Benhamida, 33, said he and his partners worked for almost two years on a business plan to convince French backers. ``I was shocked when my bank manager believed in the project straight away,'' he said, sitting under an umbrella on the restaurant's terrace. He said the business plan showed the halal meat came from reputable wholesalers and was inspected twice daily. But he had not anticipated how successful the idea would be. ``I was very surprised because people really liked the restaurant, so much so that we have tripled stocks since opening a month ago,'' he said. ``It seems like magic.'' He is planning to hire eight new employees in fall, expanding his staff of 28. In an area with high unemployment, people are grateful to find work. Some female employees said they took the job because they were allowed to wear head scarves, unlike workers in other French fast-food restaurants. Female customers also seemed happy. Cherifa Halimi, 19, sat in a booth sipping drinks with four friends, all dressed in black flowing gowns covering all but their hands and faces. ``There are a few changes they could make to give the place a completely Muslim image,'' Halimi said. ``The television is OK, but there shouldn't be any music. ``But I'd like to work here.'' Muslim diners said they felt more misunderstood in France since last month's terror attacks in London. ``Even the media demonizes the image of Islam in this country,'' Ahmed Talbi said, sitting in a booth opposite his wife. ``People are afraid of terrorist attacks here, too.'' Customers, including non-Muslims, said the restaurant was not segregating Muslims but showing a normal, peaceful Muslim activity that was open to all. ``Both Muslims and other people feel at ease here,'' Talbi said. ``Maybe this kind of place will help to correct the bad image of Muslims and tell the world to stop talking nonsense about us.''

Posted by: Amber G. Aug 10 2005, 10:21 PM

Sorry to start a new topic here, I will delete in a few days.. (Or admin can delete if they want) There is a site for gifted math students (Generally frequented by International Math Olymiads, Math professors and the like and also very young math students) There are a few bright Indian students which take part here. Mostly the site is about Math but they just started a "community forum" where other topics are discussed. ) There are quite a few Indians there (naturally many Indians are interested in math) Many young minds. Well it had to happen .. some young student started a thread (in Indian community) about India and a Paki pig, (claiming to be canadian) started spreading his crap. Please note that over many years of the forumns exsitance, there never (at least serious ) flame-ware in the forum. 99% of the discussion there is math related) What I want is some one (or many ) wriite a quick letter to Prof Rusczyk or give him a call to him and get that pig banned. .. If any details about the pig can be found please let me know... I am mad that such a nice form is hijacked by these pigs. And yes, if n3.gif or someone can write an appropiate reply (sutaible for little children, yet could be understood by the pig) would be nice.,, Please note that other that this, even the pakistani forum has been ok. (One can easily register in these forums) Here is contact info: AoPS Incorporated P. O. Box 2185 Alpine, CA 91903-2185 By Phone (619) 659 - 1612 Business hours: 9AM - 6PM PDT M-F By Fax (619) 659 - 8146 By Email General: and here is the url of the relavent thread: Thanks in advance. 

<< Home

November 2003 / December 2003 / January 2004 / February 2004 / March 2004 / May 2004 / June 2004 / July 2004 / August 2004 / September 2004 / October 2004 / November 2004 / December 2004 / January 2005 / February 2005 / March 2005 / May 2005 / August 2005 / September 2005 / October 2005 / November 2005 / December 2005 / March 2006 / June 2006 / July 2006 /

Powered by Blogger