India Forum Archives
Tuesday, March 14, 2006
  Christian Missionary Role In India - 4

Posted by: acharya Apr 10 2005, 04:26 PM

Conversions with foreign fund By N. Krishna America is funding Christian militants in India, like they had done to the Talibans. This is with the aim to create Christian nations in India by dismembering it. American President, George W. Bush got elected with the help of Christian fanatics who distributed funds from White House. Millions of dollars flow to Christian missionaries and Christian NGOs in India. The seriousness of this situation can be gauged from the fact that Christians run most of the 4,000 NGOs in India and most of them are involved in misinformation and conversion activities. Christian fundamentalism with its funding from the United States, is orchestrated with enormous guile, secrecy, corporate skill, and is gradually bent on disintegrating India. Bush's America is worse than the Saudi Arabian Islamic fundamentalist. Bush propagates fundamentalism himself, and is building it into the American machinery. Missionary activities are tied in with dubious social work. Christian bigotry and colossal conversion efforts are destroying our nation. Already the north-east is set for disintegration. Missionary D. Ron Watts, located at Hosur in Karnataka, along with his American wife Dorothy, is the most successful Christian conversion-terrorist in India. They are in India on business visa and with US funding have managed to convert 5,00,000 Hindus in the last five years. They enjoy the political support of the Congress party. They have brought in more than 200 foreigners on tourist visas for conversion activities in India. Using their organisations, known as Maranatha International and Global Mission, they carry out a virtual rape of India Pat Robertson, who calls Hindus `demonic', operates the $66 million- a-year agency called `Operation Blessing' in four Indian states. The medical conversion drive is a part of Operation Blessing and it recently treated more than 22,000 impoverished patients and simultaneously converted them to Christianity. They use hospitals like the Christian-run Apollo hospitals for this purpose. Christian Medical College, Vellore and Christian Medical College, Ludhiana, with over 350 institutional members like hospitals, health centres, community health programmes and two medical colleges are major centres for medical conversion. In 2000, nearly 3,000 people were converted to Christianity in exchange for clothes, food, medical care, and drilling of water wells by Operation Blessing. In 2000, nearly 3,000 people were converted to Christianity in exchange for clothes, food, medical care, and drilling of water wells by Operation Blessing. Bush's White House funds all Christian missionaries in India and for Christian NGOs, like CARE, World Vision, etc., conversion is their main job. Foreign missionaries are now increasing their efforts to convert Hindus as per the missionary organisation called Baptist World Alliance (BWA). Christian missionaries are behind the spread of terrorism in north-east India. The Southern Baptist Church in America financed and established in 1989 the Christian equivalent of the Taliban, the National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) for creating an independent Christian nation of Tripura. The National Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) is funded and armed by the World Council of Churches. Nagaland has 40 missionary groups and 18 major Christian militant groups. Churches buy guns, such as AK47s and AK57s from Myanmar or Bangladesh. NSCN has ties with the ISI of Pakistan and has its offices in New York, Geneva and the Hague which display boards with legends like `People's Republic of Nagaland'. It has twice raised its demand for an independent nation in the United Nations. The NSCN has its own government which collects money from the local people. One-third of the salaries of the government servants are taken away as Nagaland tax before disbursement. Most of the banks in Nagaland have closed down because of the huge sums extracted by this outfit. The letterheads and stamps of this unofficial government read `Nagaland for Christ'. Last week about 30 communal Christian MPs from across India met NSCN over dinner at a hotel in New Delhi to offer their support for `Nagaland for Christ' as per senior NSCN leader, V.S. Atem. Never in the history of India had the Christian MPs across India committed such a criminal act. They have come out now in the open because of the Italian Christian, Antonia Maino alias Sonia Gandhi who is ruling India with the help of her dummy, Manmohan Singh. In Nagaland drug addiction and the liquor supplied by priests have become a major problem. HIV/AIDS has risen dramatically amongst the Nagas after Christianity was forced upon them. Earlier CIA had placed an American spy as an English tutor for the Sikkim prince who conveniently fell in love her and married her later. This was to make Sikkim an independent nation. It was detected by India in time. With the support of Christian missionaries, terrorist organisations, like the NLFT and the NSCN are spreading terror in north-east India to convert the region to Christianity at gun-point. Gun-point conversions are going on in Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland, Manipur, and Meghalaya. The NSCN has already succeeded in Nagaland in converting masses to Christianity and fighting for a greater Nagaland called Nagalim. NLFT is in the process of making a repeat of NSCN in Tripura. NLFT Attacks and Desecration of Temples NLFT terrorists in Tripura systematically carry out kidnappings, rape and murder of Hindus. The NLFT was banned in April 1997 but in 2000, this Christian terrorist group ordered the Hindus to stay away from celebrating Durga Puja or be killed. NLFT said it wanted all the Hindus in Tripura to become Christians. They also stated that salvation of Tripura lay only in Christianity and they would eliminate anyone who dared to come in the way of their plans to forcibly convert entire Tripura to Christianity. Nearly 20 ashrams, schools and orphanages of Hindus were closed down by these Christian terrorists. On August 6, 1999, four Hindus named Shyamal Kanti Sen Gupta, Sudhamoy Dutta, Dinendranath Dey, Shubhankar Chakraborti, were kidnapped and beheaded, as though they were Muslim terrorists, by the Christian terrorist organisation, NLFT. John Thwaites, a Christian priest in Bengal, is reported to be linked to the terrorist activities of Kamtapuri and was arrested in 2001. The Baptist Church's evangelical work in India involves buying weapons for organised terrorism. In 1991, the 2.3 per cent population of Christians in Nagaland, Mizoram and Meghalaya shot upto 90 per cent, 87 per cent and 70.3 respectively in these states. On August 6, 1999, four Hindus named Shyamal Kanti Sen Gupta, Sudhamoy Dutta, Dinendranath Dey, Shubhankar Chakraborti, were kidnapped and beheaded, as though they were Muslim terrorists, by the Christian terrorist organisation, NLFT. The Baptist Church of Mizoram has created 465 Baptist churches in Mizoram with the support of 436 foreign missionaries and with an annual budget of $875,000, they have converted 75,000 Hindus. In Assam, Christian missionaries propagate their intentions and aims through radio, literature or Church services to make Assam an independent Christian nation. In Tripura, for instance, there were no Christians at the time of Independence. The Maharaja of the state was a Hindu and there were innumerable temples all over the state. But since 1950, Christian missionaries with Nehru's blessings penetrated deep into the thick forests of Tripura and started converting the Hindus. Now it has 90 per cent Christians. Millions of dollars are being poured in by USA in north-east for destabilising the region. Three priests were arrested in Tripura in April 2000 for aiding terrorists and possessing a large quantity of explosives, including 60 gelatine sticks, 5 kg of potassium, 2 kg of sulphur and other elements for making bombs. In the year 2001, there were 826 terrorist attacks in Tripura in which 405 persons were killed and 481 cases of kidnappings by the rebels were reported. Christian terrorists like the All Tripura Tiger Force (ATTF), National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) are funded by the Americans. These Christian terrorists have killed more than 10,000 Hindus in Tripura in the last 20 years.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 11 2005, 09:36 AM

Case against priest for Dalit job fraud SP Singh/ Ghaziabad A case has been registered at the Pilkhuwa police station in Ghaziabad in connection with a job fraud involving the Church. According to the report, six Dalit youths of Hapur area, allegedly paid Rs 20,000 to a Church priest in Bhovapur area for jobs in MNCs. The boys, Ramesh, Man Chand, Satya Prakash, Kania, Brahm Singh and Bhagirath paid the priest in April 2002. The money, a kind of a security deposit, was kept in the church and the priest promised them that they would get back the amount after retirement. The priest told them to learn Bible and one day proclaimed them baptized. But even after conversion, they were not sent to any country for jobs. Irked by the priest's attitude, one of the victims approached the police, but they did not pay any attention to his complaint. The complainant filed a writ petition in the court of the Hapur-based additional district and session's judge. In the petition, Ramesh, along with five other plaintiffs, alleged that they had paid Rs 20,000 to the priest for jobs in a foreign country but instead of sending them abroad, the priest sent the boys to different churches in Jhansi and Jabalpur for religious training. They were told that religious training was a must for those who went to work outside and were presuaded to convert to Christianity. Over the past two years, they were trained as electricians and plumbers and were paid Rs 2000 per month, along with two meals a day. In an affidavit filed along with the writ petition, Ramesh said the priest has floated two religious organisations - the UP Mission Spiritual Development Trust and Illogical Church of God - to lure young boys in the name of providing jobs and allegedly earning money by teaching them Bible. When the complainant approached the Bhovapur Church for a refund, he was threatened and allegedly roughed up. It was then that he moved court.

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 11 2005, 10:25 AM

Posted by: k.ram Apr 11 2005, 04:35 PM

From "World-Wide Evangelization the Urgent Business of the Church" Book by Student Volunteer Movement For Foreign Missions; , 1902; the following the extract relevant to India.

INDIA AS A MISSION FIELD REV. JOHN N. FORMAN, FATEHGARH THE Apostle Paul in describing the situation in Ephesus in writing to the Corinthians said, "A great door and effectual is opened unto me, and there are many adversaries." I believe these words describe the situation in India to-day; a great door is opened to the gospel. You can reach India in one month, traveling comfortably. In the days that our own fathers went to India it was a six months' voyage. When you reach that country you can go to any part of the land. We find that the Government has given us a splendid system of railroads, something like 25,000 miles, and about 35,000 miles of excellent macadamized roads besides other roads, making it easy for us to reach every part of the country with the gospel. A great door is opened to the gospel also because of our having a firm and just Government. Again, a great door is opened to the gospel because of the marvelous accessibility of the people. Wherever you go you will get an audience, both for public preaching and private work and work in the schools. There is no difficulty on that score. Not only is a great door opened to the gospel in India but also an effectual door. We can point to large bodies of Christians throughout the country, to a large force of native workers. There has been in regard to the old religions a process of disintegration. We do not believe that the religions of India begin to have the hold upon the popular mind that they had fifty years ago. Again we find that an effectual door is opened to the gospel in India because recently there has been a great deal accomplished in connection with the famine work. We might speak of such work as is done in one of our Western India missions, where the number of Christians was doubled during the famine year 1900; but what I believe is a still more significant fact is that during the year 1900 there were 25,000 children gathered into our orphanages, and these boys and girls are going to go out of these orphanages in almost every case nominal Christians. We believe that most of them are going to be real Christians and that a very large number will make some of the finest workers India has ever known. We know what has been the result of the gathering in of these children in the earlier times, and we expect much more from the famine in 1900. We say further, that an effectual door has been opened in India because of the movement in different parts of India among the low castes. We probably have not much less than 20,000 castes, and below all these caste strata we have the outcaste and the low caste community. Probably there are no less than 50,000,000 belonging to the outcaste and very low caste communities. If you look back to the early days when there was that wonderful movement in connection with the Baptist work among the Telugus, if you regard the large numbers gathered in in connection with the Methodist Episcopal work in the Northwest Provinces, if you look at the work going on in the extreme north and then go down to the extreme south and see the work done there by the Church of England Mission, you find that in different places there has been a movement toward Christianity. This is largely a social movement; but we believe that it can be so utilized that it is going to be of the very greatest importance to the Christianization of India. But we must add these words, "And there are many adversaries." I wish to speak very briefly indeed of these. In the first place, we have to face great religious systems. We are not dealing with people who do not know what their religion is. We have to face Mohammedanism. It is an adversary, first, because of its unitarian teachings; second, because the Mohammedans are fatalists, and it is exceedingly difficult to appeal to them on the ground of personal responsibility; third, because there is something in that religion which makes the Mohammedans bigoted, self-satisfied and intensely hostile to Christianity and to Christians. I was very much entertained a short time ago by reading an article by Max O'Rell -- who will be recognized as an eminent authorty on comparative religions! -- in which he stated that Mohammedans did not object to Christianity, but that they hated Christians. I wish Max O'Rell could take a Bible and stand up in a bazaar in the Northwest Provinces and read the first chapter of St. John. It would call out a volume of blasphemous utterances from these men. The fact that the Gospel of John teaches that Jesus is the Son of God causes Mohammedanism to stand up to fight Christianity. Sometimes a man comes down from the northern frontier and drives a knife into the heart of some Englishman. Why does he do that? Because he feels that he is doing his religion a service thereby. The animus of Mohammedanism is shown by that act, and we have 50,000,000 Mohammedans in India. Let me speak of the Hindu religion and show what makes it difficult to win people of that religion to Christ. It might seem that the Hindus, being polytheists, are more easily won. They are more easily won; but there is the difficulty that below all their polytheism they have the pantheistic basis, and if you try to corner a Hindu in argument, if you try to show him the absurdity of bowing down and worshiping a snake or a contemptible idol, what is his answer? Is not God everywhere? Is not God all pervasive? And if He is, is He not in that stone? If He is, I am not worshiping that object but God. Pantheism is the city of refuge for the Hindu. There is another point in Hinduism, namely, the great obstacle presented by its caste system. Another point is their teaching in regard to the transmigration of souls. I remember hearing a missionary say that it was because of that doctrine that so few of our Hindus became Christians. I would hardly go as far as that, but it is one of the great obstacles in India. There are people in Christian lands who think that there is a second probation, but what would you say of a religion that believed that there were 8,400,000 probations! How would you preach to a congregation like that, "Now is the accepted time, now is the day of salvation"? The Hindu believes that he dies to be born again, and he must go through 8,400,000 of these births. How are you to convince a man of the extreme urgency of being saved now? We have not only these religions but also great reforms and many sects. We have the great Arya-Somaj. They are strong in the Northwest Provinces and also in the Punjab. The teaching of the Arya-Somaj is that there is only one revelation of God's will, namely the four eternal Vedas, and their modern books base their teaching upon the Vedas. The beauty of the Vedas is known to very few. They get ideas from the missionary teaching, and then they say that they are found in the ancient Vedas, and they hold them up and show the excellencies of the Vedic religion. The difficulty with reforms like the Arya-Somaj is that they put away, in theory at least, idol worship and caste and hence satisfy many. A young man who is almost convinced that he ought to be a Christian and would come up and be baptized, is met by one of the leaders of the Arya-Somaj, and they say, "It is not necessary to become a Christian; join us." He joins the Arya-Somaj, and he is satisfied with that and never becomes a Christian. Then there is the Brahmo-Somaj. The choicest, most intellectual and most cultured, the very finest specimens of young men join it; and if it were not for that society, many of them would confess Christ in baptism. I might refer to another adversary, namely, materialism. The people of India are living for this world; they are not thinking of the next world, and what wonder is it? In our part of the country we pay a man four cents for a day's work, and he boards himself. When people are earning only four, six and ten cents a day and have to keep a family alive, how natural it is that the supreme questions with them are, What shall we eat and drink, and wherewithal shall we be clothed? and that they should say "first food and then prayer." We can hardly blame them. Those poor people hardly know what it is to have their hunger satisfied. We appeal to them along spiritual lines, while with them the vital problem is, How can we live? The great question coming to us in regard to that Empire is, What does India mean for us? The opportunities are splendid and the adversaries are great. What this is going to mean to us is that we will determine in the language of the Apostle Paul, when he summed up the situation in Ephesus, "I will tarry until Pentecost." I believe that we ought to say, because of the great and effectual door opened to us in India, that we are going to tarry there until there is a veritable Pentecost. Oh, let us take hold of that work as we have never taken hold of it before! QUESTIONS Q. Does the caste system pervade Mohammedanism? A. They have four castes, but they do not make any distinction between those castes in the matter of eating and drinking. As a matter of fact they have not been able to resist the Hindu caste feeling. A Mohammedan according to his religion has no right to eat with idol worshippers, but in fact he will eat with them and will not eat with Christians. They tell us that the reason why they do not eat with us is because we drink liquor and eat swine's flesh. The real reason is that they are influenced by the Hindu caste people. Q. Do you not think that the drinking habits of the European population are a very great adversary? A. I believe that this objection of the Mohammedans really has its foundation in that fact. It is not at all rare to find drunken English soldiers, but it is very uncommon to see a drunken native. Q. Is there much of a propaganda against Christianity coming from America? A. The only form in which I have seen it is in the translations of western books. "Self-Contradictions of the Bible" is one of the books which they use considerably, and some of their other caricatures of the Bible are practically Western. Q. What is the attitude of the educated young people of India toward Christianity? A. I have not lived in Calcutta, or in Bombay; but speaking for my own section, we find that the boys in our mission schools have largely given up their faith in the Hinduism which still exists in their own families. They have not the courage to come out and testify to Christianity, however. It is a hard thing for a high caste man or Mohammedan to be a Christian. There was a man who came to a missionary and wished to study Greek, but he did not return again until after some ten years had passed. When he re-appeared the missionary said to him, "That is a strange way to study Greek." He replied: "I have been a prisoner ever since. My people learned that I was here, and they locked me up in the house, and I have only got out now because the house caught fire." Q. What in your opinion is the greatest obstacle to mission work in India? A. The greatest reason is, that the people do not care whether they are lost or saved. laugh.gif The other difficulties lie in the religions which are peculiar to India. Q. Do you think that the people are indifferent toward religion? A. My experience is that the people are indifferent. If you want to find the most utterly indifferent, hopeless class, get hold of the most religious class. The leaders of this class are about the hardest men you can find. Q. What is the position of a native Christian in the estimation of the people about him who are not Christians? A. In one way he is looked upon as an outcaste, so far as caste goes. By his friends he is looked upon as an outcaste, though not like the regular outcaste, because he is in the same position as the English. In a way the English are all outcastes. He partakes of the respect which belongs to the English Government, but his father, brother, or sister would not eat a meal with him. Q. Is the condition of the common people declining or improving? A. I do not see any improvement. That is one reason why some of our missions are advocating industrial work. A young man went out from Oberlin a short time ago to open an agricultural college. Only about one-third of India's area is under cultivation, and we have a population of nearly 300,000,000 people to live on the produce of that land. I think we have to look to Christianity for improvement. Q. Is that all that is being done? A. A great deal has been done by the Government in connection with education, and of course a tremendous work is being done by it in connection with the irrigation systems. Thirteen and a half million of acres are irrigated by these canals. Q. Do those who become Christians show any aggressive spirit? A. If you asked a man in India that, he would say, "the five fingers of the hand are not equal." They are very different. Some of them are full of enthusiasm and power; and on the other hand, some are so weak that we cannot understand why they became Christians. Q. Is there any part of India which the gospel has not reached? A. There is a part of the State of Gwalior, presided over by a native prince and having a population of probably four or five millions, whose inhabitants thus far have not had the gospel preached to them. They may have heard of it in some way. Q. Has the introduction of railways done anything to break down caste barriers? A. Yes. With people huddled together in third-class apartments and rubbing up against each other, there is no doubt but that has aided somewhat. The introduction of Western medicine is another helpful factor, but it is interesting to see how the people get around that in our part of the country. They are very anxious for the medicine, yet if you give it to them in a spoon or cup it breaks their caste; if they get it from a bottle their caste is unbroken. Q. Do you have any trouble in inducing their children to attend our schools? A. In our section we have no trouble. Q. What is being done for the education of the children? A. The Government has a very large educational work for the boys and a little is done for the girls. Q. Do you think that the character of the people promises a great future for the Indian nation? A. I do. We have there an exceedingly intellectual class of people. There is a great difference between a Bengalee and a Punjabee. The Bengalese are exceedingly intellectual; the Punjabee are warriors and fine men in that way. They have the qualities of leaders. Judging from their ancient civilization we may expect a great deal from them. Q. What prospect is there for self-supporting churches? A. That is what we are looking toward, and the prospects are bright. We are not quick in realizing them, but great work is being done in that line in different missions.----
[More on this later]

Posted by: k.ram Apr 12 2005, 04:58 AM


THE CLAIMS OF INDIA UPON THE BEST YOUNG MEN OF OUR SEMINARIES AND COLLEGES REV. JOHN P. JONES, D.D., PASUMALAI YOUNG men and women, I come from the great land of the Vedas, a land where I have spent twenty-three years, the best, as they have been the happiest, years of my life. I press upon you, to-day, the claims of that wonderful country of 300,000,000 souls. I appeal to you, my young friends, in the name of all that you hold most precious as Christian disciples and students to go forth and bear to that historic people the best that you have in thought and in life. I appeal to your laudable ambition to be eminently useful. You seek a great field; you are right in desiring to make your life count for the most. Well, come and consecrate yourself to the young manhood and womanhood of India. There you will find more young men to-day than there are people, all told, in this great country of ours. Place them side by side and shoulder to shoulder and they will make a solid phalanx which will more than reach around this whole earth. And every one of them has bright and eternal possibilities centered in his young heart and life, -- possibilities which it may be your opportunity to transmute into a glorious reality. There are a thousand barriers which stand between every one of those youth and the realization of his mission in the world; and there is an ancient and mighty superstition which rests like a pall upon him and his and keeps them in the bondage of a dreary, Egyptian darkness. It is yours to remove those barriers and to dispel that darkness and to bring to them the light and the life of joy and hope which you yourself enjoy. In this land of ours Christian workers are jostling each other so that the sacred office seems crowded and many are discouraged. Among the teeming millions of India you will find none to encroach upon your parish of nearly a quarter of million souls. A sense of the vastness of your work, the greatness of your opportunities and the urgency of the call for help will only increase with the multiplying years of your labor in that land. And the burden of your prayer will be that God may send more laborers into His harvest. There are millions of our brothers and sisters in India to-day to whom the message of the cross of Christ was never preached; 30,000 of those who know not Christ in that land daily pass through the portals of death into the unknown future. The helplessness and spiritual paralysis of the living and the dying is the Macedonian cry to all of us at this moment. 2. I appeal to your highest sense of duty. Have you ever thought how strangely God has bound the destiny of that great land of the Orient with that of the Anglo-Saxon race? blink.gif Though these two races are in many respects antipodal, during the last century and a half there has been a wonderful Providence which has been drawing them into an ever closer relationship, so that to-day India is in a peculiar sense our ward. In matters social, political, intellectual and religious our responsibility for the future of that people is becoming increasingly manifest, and the day is at hand when India will appear to all of us as the paramount duty and opportunity of Anglo-Saxon Christendom. The progress and the new achievements of that land to-day are largely, if not exclusively, thrust upon it by the Anglo-Saxon. They partake of our material blessings; they are inspired by our thought and intellectual processes; they are increasingly enamored of our social and political institutions; they are held within the meshes of our highest moral and religious principles; they are giving a growing welcome to our message of life; and, mark it, they are adopting some of the most accursed habits and damning customs of life and thought which are connected with the Western civilization of the present time. We could not, if we would, shake off this God-imposed responsibility which we owe India to-day. May you, young people, help us to take up this glorious task and show to those brothers and sisters in the East that we deem this responsibility a God-given one and that we propose to fulfil it in the Spirit of our divine Lord, to the glory of His Name and to the redemption of all that people. 3. In behalf of India I again appeal to your deepest Christian compassion. Remember that with all their desire for something better those young people are strongly anchored to the past. Custom is the god which they have been taught to worship. Caste tyranny is the bondage in which they were born and in which they live. An all-pervasive ceremonialism and a debasing idolatry are the accursed heritage which is fastened upon them. And above all there is a universal pessimism in thought and life which paralyzes all activity and which casts a deep gloom over them from the cradle to the grave. Is life worth living? In this land we discuss this question. In India there is no thought of it. It is their universal conviction that human life is an absolute evil; and the highest ambition of the best in that land is to be done with this earthly existence and its myriad incarnations -- to be rid of all that are beautiful and inspiring and ennobling in human life and ideals, as well as all that are debasing, and to be lost in an unconscious impersonal and eternal nothingness. Oh, the unrelieved gloom and the hopeless outlook of both the philosophy and the religion of India! To all it is depressing; to the young it is an ever present nightmare which converts youth itself into a perpetual sadness. Young friends, we call upon you to go forth in the light of the Lord to flood that land of darkness with His optimism and with the bright cheer of His faith and His life. India needs pre-eminently the brightness of an immortal hope and the joy of an ever expanding life which are the gift of Christ to this ruined and doomed human race. Poor despairing India needs you. Go and take to that downcast people the upward look of life and of hope in Christ which is the highest and best message which we have to give to the Christless world. 4. Again I appeal to your eager desire for the highest opportunity. The masses of India are ignorant, superstitious and degraded. But there have always been in that land men of thought and intellectual prowess. In ancient times, when our ancestors were in the lowest depths of barbarism, there was in India a unique civilization, embracing philosophic thought and culture. Of their religious speculations of ancient times even a Schopenhauer could say: "In the whole world there is no study so beneficial and so elevating as that of the Upanishads. It has been the solace of my life; it will be the solace of my death." Dr. Matheson gives the following estimate of ancient Hindu thought:" The mind of the West has never exhibited such an intense amount of intellectual force as is to be found in the religious speculations of India. Whenever the European mind has risen to the heights of philosophy, it has done so because the Brahman has been the pioneer." And let me here assure you that India has not forgotten her intellectual cunning. The descendants of the rishis, who of old reached higher than any other people in their self-propelled flight after God and divine things, to-day do a great deal of religious thinking. And the thinkers of that land are possessed of minds among the keenest upon earth. Moreover, the contact of the West with the East has resulted in a great revival of thought in that land. The 140 colleges there established with their more than 18,000 students and their annual output of 5,000 graduates mean a new influx of intellectual energy. Western philosophy and processes of thought are stirring to their depths the million minds of India's men of culture; so that the thinking of to-day in that land is the most rational and profound that they have ever known, and it comes much more closely to the motive powers of life and action than it ever did before. Thus the greatest need of the Christian cause in India at the present time is for men of large intelligence and deep culture combined with a broad training in Christian truth and philosophy. We need men who can grapple with the subtleties of Hindu thought, men who can meet the best Hindu thinkers and convince them of their errors and give a satisfying reason to such men of the Christian faith which they hold and teach. We need men who can guide and feed the mind of young India -- men who can not only stand firmly by their own conviction, but who also can inspire confidence in all those young people as to their own highest sanity and the sanity and eternal truth of their religion. We ask not for men of cold, disturbing doubts and frigid uncertainties. India can furnish enough destructive doubts and negations. Give us men who know something, who have convictions, who, while teachable, have something positive to impart to an ignorant, thirsty soul. Does a man feel called to teach? Our multiplying institutions of learning invite him and will give him an excellent field of work among the young. Is he an administrator? The rapidly developing Christian community with its multiplying departments of activity will give ample scope for his best powers. Does he aspire to become a writer? India needs nothing more at the present time than men who have special gift in this line; men who can enrich the Christian literature of that land, both in the vernaculars and in English, who by pen can strengthen the faith and inspire the heart of the Christian and enlighten, convince and lead into life the awakened, thoughtful non-Christian. Infidel literature abounds in that land; we must meet literature with literature and thus bring the people to Christ and His truth. There are great Reform movements in India -- movements which draw around them multitudes of the unsatisfied, the restless, the young, all of whom are seeking something better than the old faith. These movements have their faces towards the light; some have brought their followers to the very threshold of our faith. We need missionary statesmen who can say the right word and say it wisely to these reformers and help them into the Kingdom. They must wisely direct this tide so as to bring all or many of these unsettled, inquiring ones unto Christ and into His Faith. The thinking men of the East to-day, while looking to the West for wisdom, care not for it when presented in too Western a form. They love to see our best things clothed in an Eastern garb. Twice blessed the man who can go to that land, imbibe the spirit of the people and bring to them, in an Oriental form, the teaching and life of our Lord and the ritual of His faith. We must learn more and more to reach the East through Eastern methods and by the highways of Oriental thought and processes. It must be remembered that there is no special virtue in being too obstinately attached to our Western forms and in thinking that the "mild Hindu" must give up his own preferences in everything in favor of our prejudices and customs. 5. I appeal to your love and loyalty to Christ our Lord. India pre-eminently needs Christ. And, thank God, with an increasing eagerness, she is seeking Him and trying to catch His spirit. A great change has come over that land in this respect. It is not long ago when they slighted and despised Him and claimed to have among their own gods better than He. That day has passed by. Hindus all over the land would to-day unanimously vote to give Him a place in their pantheon. He is becoming increasingly enthroned in their imagination, if not in their heart. And the educated men of that land exalt and praise Him as they never did before. They acknowledge Him as the ideal of our race and the exemplar of mankind. They speak of Him as an Oriental and love Him accordingly. They are yielding more and more to the spell of His influence upon their lives. The famous Chunder Sen truly exclaimed, "None but Jesus is worthy to wear this diadem, India, and He shall have it." An orthodox Hindu judge recently lectured before his fellow-religionists and uttered these words: "We cannot be blind to the greatness, the unrivaled splendor of Jesus Christ. He lives in Europe and America, in Asia and Africa as king and guide and teacher. He lives in our midst. He seeks to revivify religion in India. We owe everything, even this deep yearning toward our own ancient Hinduism to Christianity." Yes, his Spirit is abroad in that land as never before. They are thirsting after an increasing knowledge of Him and seek Him for their devotions. A Brahman gentleman of culture and large influence asked me to purchase for him a small copy of Thomas à Kempis's "Imitation of Christ." He had a large copy for home use and wished the pocket copy for travel. I sold to him and his eager fellow-Brahmans all the copies I could find for sale in South India and Bombay. At his request I also bought for him a copy of Dr. Sheldon "In His Steps." Indeed I sold to Brahmans and Christians alike forty-eight copies of that excellent little book. This eagerness after Christ is a growing feature of the life of the educated men of India and we thank God for this. In like manner the spirit of our Lord is transforming all the institutions of that land, creating a revolution such as the world has hardly ever witnessed. We need in that land to-day an increasing number of Christian workers who are absolutely loyal to the Spirit of our Lord, who are thoroughly possessed by Him and who rejoice to give themselves, soul and body, to the supreme work of bringing the millions of awakened India into the life, the joy, the fellowship and the image of our blessed Savior. Young men, that great land is open to you to-day and invites with earnestness every one of you to come and give it the best that you have and are. The Lord Himself invites you and, pointing to India, says: "Behold I have set before thee an open door; and no man can shut it." It is the great door of His opening. Will you not enter in and find your life-work and joy? QUESTIONS Q. What characteristic of our faith is particularly offensive to the Hindus? A. Its Occidental type. I think that they would accept our faith much more largely, if we could present it in a more Oriental form. We have much to learn in this. We can never do it perfectly until the Indian Christian Church not only becomes selfthinking but self-directing, and then they will present Christ to these people in an attractive form as we of the West are not fully able to do. The doctrine of the atonement they cannot easily accept, because there is no conception of the atonement in Hinduism. Q. Are we to understand that Hinduism is borrowing from Christianity? A. Hinduism is borrowing from it very largely. In these reform movements of which we have spoken, -- for instance, the eclecticism of the Brahmo-Somaj, -- you will find some Hinduism, some Buddhism, some Mohammedanism and a great deal of Christianity. Hindus to-day are looking to our faith in many ways. If a vote were taken in India to-day, the Hindus would vote almost unanimously to place Christ among the gods in their Pantheon. blink.gif Q. Are those students, who are somewhat educated, influenced by the destructive criticism of the Western world, and would you recommend us to send students who are of the opinion that the first part of the Bible is mythical and not historical? A. I have met in India Ingersoll's "Mistakes of Moses," scattered broadcast in the vernacular in our villages. I have seen an edition published by Hindus scattered before the people in my presence. That is the Western form of criticism which largely prevails. The lower classes take principally Ingersoll, but also Mr. Bradlaugh. Their works are found not only in English but in the vernacular. As for the educated men, they study rationalism and Spencer's views, those forms which are undermining our faith; they are types of agnosticism. Q. Who sends them there? A. They come largely from the West. Mr. Bradlaugh was held very highly in esteem in India until his death because of his friendship toward the people of India, and that helped the circulation of such literature very much. Ingersoll's writings were connected with Bradlaugh's. A movement was started in India which carried a great deal of that there; and after the Hindus found that it was the easiest method of attacking Christianity, they adopted it, and they are using it largely for that purpose. Q. If a man were not strong intellectually, should he be sent to some other field than India? A. Not necessarily. We need all kinds of men there. My appeal now is for men of large intellectual power, because there is a very distinct intellectual movement in India; but there is an opportunity for men who have not such large intellectual power. We need men who can go into the practical part of the work; we need administrators to develop the Christian activities of many departments. Q. Did the Parliament of Religions in Chicago have any effect in India? A. Yes, for a time. I would not say that it will be permanent, for I think it will lead to a re-action. At the time, however, it led to a great deal of bumptiousness on the part of Hindus. They said to us: "Well, what can you say? Our faith has been exalted and has been placed on an equality with yours." It was rumored that America was coming over in millions to the Hindu faith. That has now largely passed away. Q. How does the medical missionary succeed in comparison with his non-medical brother? A. So long as he keeps to his medical work exclusively, his success is not as large in India as in some other countries, because the Government is doing a very large work in that line; but nearly all of our medical missionaries engage in the spiritual work as well. When you combine both lines a great deal of good is done. Exclusively medical work is not needed now so much; and yet in our own mission our doctor is doing a splendid work of that sort, and there stands on the streets of Madura to-day a hospital for our mission, which cost 42,000 rupees given by his Hindu patients. It is a monument of their appreciation of his work for them. Q. Are the students of India attracted to Christ as a man or as a God? A. They begin with Christ as an ideal of moral character, but many of them are passing to-day through that into a real spirit of devotion to Christ. I know of many who are going much beyond that conception of Him as a man. It is not difficult to believe in the Incarnation. There are millions of them in India, and for us to bring Christ before them as the Incarnate of God is not a difficult thing; present Him as the Ideal Man and the Hindu will at once accept Him as the manifestation of God. Q. What do you understand to be their objection to the Occidentalism of Christianity? Is it genuine or not? A. I think that it is. It is a spirit of nationalism which has sprung up, and I have felt ever since I have been there that we can and ought to adapt our faith in many ways to Oriental conceptions. You know the Orient and the Occident view almost everything from opposite sides. Character itself has two aspects: we have the aggressive, the positive element of character, and the Hindu has the passive, the quiescent; we are always ready to fight for what we believe; the Hindu is always willing to suffer for what he believes. There is a very marked difference in their intellectual character too. It is difficult to explain, and yet it is a real thing. We carry to them our Western form of ritual, and we say to these men, "Take this or nothing"; and they are saying to us, "Give us something that is more Oriental in type." They speak of Christ as an Oriental, one of their own kind; and you may know that a book was written many years ago by one of these men on "The Oriental Christ." It is worth studying to show just what their idea is from the Oriental side. Q. Can you give us an example of how you could change the Occidental Idea into the Oriental without interfering with the teaching of Christianity? A. Take the conception of Christ. We in the West have always emphasized the transcendentalism of God. Though we have recently taken to the immanence of God, we have done so only because we have brought it from the East. The Hindu has always emphasized God's immanence, but has carried it to the extreme of pantheism. If we are going to reach the East which has emphasized the immanence of God, we must cease emphasizing the transcendental character of God and face this problem of His immanence and give that a new emphasis. I can illustrate it in another way. When our Bible was translated into the Tamil language 200 years ago, the missionaries declined to use any popular Hindu terms in their translation; for instance, when they came to the word God, there were splendid popular words for God but they said, "That is Hindu and we cannot accept it." We have a beautiful native word for faith, and they rejected that and used a word which the people knew nothing about as a translation of the word faith. We did not adapt the translation of our Bible to the comprehension and to the tastes and life of the people; it is something remote. Of course we have had it now for 200 years, and the Christian community has developed in the line we have indicated to them, but it is not a natural line. Just so with our music. We would not accept their music or their hymns. We have brought the translation of our music and hymns both of which are foreign to them. Recently we adopted the Hindu tunes and now our music goes well.

Posted by: k.ram Apr 13 2005, 02:13 AM

# HINDU MINISTRY CONFERENCE IN NEW YORK CITY -- From May 6-8, 2005 the Rethinking Forum is sponsoring a weekend conference on the Hindu- Christian interface from the perspective of the Rethinking Movement in Indian church history. The consultation will present various stimulating perspectives on service for Christ among Hindus. Although scholarly resource people will be present the focus will be on practical service. This New York City area conference will close by lunch on Sunday following a worship service. For more information contact info(at)rethinkingforum(dot)com [As a means of preventing spam for our contributors, in the preceding email address(es), please replace (at) with @ and (dot) with .]

Posted by: k.ram Apr 13 2005, 02:17 AM Bollywood and Missionaries....

Posted by: k.ram Apr 13 2005, 02:34 AM

Continued.... 1902 book...

INDIA'S WOMEN AND THEIR APPEAL MISS ADELAIDE G. FROST, MAHOBA EVEN in the midst of the culture of this land of homes and in times like this of great spiritual uplifting for which we grow so hungry in other countries, my mind is full of India pictures. I seem to see beneath some tamarind or banyan tree another audience -a huddled group of village women, sitting on the brown, dusty earth. The houses about them are mud-colored, their faces are brown, the general impression is one of the earth earthy. These women are not kept in purdah or "behind the curtain"; they are women who may even toil in the fields, and go to the village well with face uncovered to God's sweet light and sunshine. They have lived starved lives whose pitiful narrowness we can scarcely understand. The days leave cruel marks on some of India's women, and it is upon the faces of the aged that we see what life has been. I think no sight in the homeland is more sweet to me than the peaceful faces of aged Christians. There is a glow on such faces that India's bright sunshine cannot give. I feel that I should never leave a village without giving some message for those whose lives have been passed in India's silence and famine for God's Word. I have had old women led up close to my feet, as I sat on a stone or campchair, and have been asked to repeat what I had said. "They are good words, good words," they would murmur; but who can tell how much light had pierced those long dark souls? Again I see the women who live behind the wall in the headman's house. In the midst of the jars and hand mills, cots and cooking utensils in the court, the women are sitting. They look well-fed in this house; their ornaments are many and varied, and there is a pleasant jingle and tinkle as they go about. The young women with pretty brown babies are very attractive here. We try to bring in our story naturally, and this is not difficult since our Master came first to the East and lived amid the symbols of the East. Only this week I had a letter from one of India's women, a dear, happy-faced woman with a crown of silver hair. She tells of her work, and I should like our dear sister to give her message to you just as it came to me, seemingly for this Convention. "My dear sister in Jesus: "The Lord desired that I should carry the good message of free salvation to zenana women who are shut up. As the Lord desired it, so he opened for me a way and blessed it, so I may succeed in getting into zenana houses one after another. I have got into twenty-five zenana houses and a few poor people's cottages. The latter requested me to visit them also, while I was passing their cottages. These poor feeble women listen to the story of Jesus gladly and say to me, that they feel a sort of comfort in their broken heart, while listening to the story of Jesus and His love for sinners. "Dr. Oxer introduced me to a rich Brahman widow, to whose house she used to go to treat a sick patient. She has great faith in Christian doctor's treatment. The patient was the only brother of the above-mentioned rich widow and the medicine used proved useful. Sometimes the zenana women complain of their illnesses; these I recommended to Dr. Oxer. I am glad to say, by the blessing of God, the remedies given to them prove useful. In the chief man's house, I teach twenty or twenty-two women. In the pensioned Inspector of Police's house there are about eighteen women whom I teach. The zenana women to whom I go every day are of different castes. "Almost all zenana women receive me kindly into their homes, listen very attentively to what I say and admit all to be facts. They do not wish me to go away when I have finished my work with them. They urge me to sing Christian bhajans (hymns) about Jesus, which gives them great joy and peace in their fainting hearts. "Some of the rich zenana women have Brahman widows as servants. These always expect me eagerly; their mistresses wish all their servants to be present when I go to them. Two of the Brahman widows always shed tears when I sing the one hundred and twenty-sixth bhajan (the funeral song), and that other one touching on the sufferings of our Lord. Once I was explaining the funeral hymn when one of the widows asked me, 'How can Jesus raise all the dead burnt into ashes?' Then I reminded her what is said in her own religious books, that those who sin would go to hell and those who have done puny (given alms) would go to heaven. After reminding her of this belief I asked: 'How can the dead go to heaven or hell if they rise not?' She could not answer. One widow said that she believed Jesus was her Sat Guru (True Teacher); but, oh, caste is a great obstacle to the public acknowledgment of Jesus! The mistress of the house asked the widow, what she was going to do with her only son if she became a Christian, to which she gave no answer. Always I pray for this widow that she may be courageous. "As I go about I endeavor to do the will of my Heavenly Master. With much love "Your sister in Jesus, " REBECCA BENJAMIN." An old Brahman pilgrim, a widow, comes to see us frequently. Her name is Ramabai, but she is not our famous Ramabai of Mukti. She has been all over India seeking by some penance to mitigate the punishment for the sin which caused her widowhood. She knows not what the sin is; perhaps it was committed after a previous birth. In the early days of our Orphanage, when the famine was desolating our district, she first visited us and heard of the Savior who can save from sin. How well I remember her keen eyes, shaven head, dingy, scant white widow's drapery and the single iron band on her arm! When she returned she found, not the wretched famine waifs, but more than a hundred happy girls in the schoolroom. As they crowded about her she exclaimed, "Light in the darkness, light in the darkness!" Eagerly our girls told her who had wrought the change and sang to her of Jesus' love. It is a picture that I shall never forget -- young India of the shining face and old India hopelessly shaking her widowed head. At that time she told me the story of her early widowhood and that there was no one to pity. "I went and poured out my grief to the fields," were her words. We pray that she may become truly the Master's. She has groped in darkness through a long life. We are training in our station, Mahoba in the Northwest Provinces, 175 girls orphaned by the famine of 1896 and 1897. The missionaries of our Christian Woman's Board of Missions care for 400 such girls. We trust and believe that they are to take the message to the women "behind the wall." Into the Hindu word for "house" we trust that they will breathe the spirit of our "sweet home." There can be no greater work for Christian women, we believe, than to strive to make "the world circle the home circle." There is a Voice speaking of sweetness, tenderness and hope; and it rises above the jangling cries of widows, abused wives and little crying child-wives, -- above the wail of weak, undisciplined womanhood. It is the invitation of the Savior from sin, calling to the life that now is and the life that is to come. And yet there are not enough messengers to publish the tidings. Earth's "little while" is so little and India's women do not wait for us. They cry, they know not to whom; they go, they know not where; and we play with little things and our time of silence comes. Is it not our privilege to reach out a hand to our dying sisters now? India needs our help now and we may not tarry. QUESTIONS Q. Is practical training a help to women missionaries among the women of India? A. Yes. All our zenana workers have found that the training which they have had in their own homes has helped them greatly. A knowledge of simple remedies for children and of different kinds of hand-work is very useful. Q. What has been the effect of the famine on the work? A. We find in many places that out of the deep grief and sorrow of the famine blessing has come to India, and in our section we were able to save 600 children from famine, and they are now in different orphanages. Q. Are there opportunities for trained nurses there? A. Very great opportunities. We have in our mission several trained nurses, and they have taught other women. Q. Are there opportunities for lady physicians? A. We have a number of lady physicians, and their work is very necessary for the carrying on of our enterprise. Q. How many Hindu women did you find who could read in your five and a half year's work among them? A. Several of our teachers have been trained, but of the women found in our villages and towns, I have heard of only one Mohammedan woman that could read. When we went to our district, in looking over the district statistics we found that there were twenty-six women out of 250,000 who could read, and that included all the English women in the district as well as the natives. Q. Have you any difficulties of dialect such as are found in China? A. We have many dialects where we are. DR. JONES. -- The Government in its last census says that there are seventy languages and distinct dialects. Q. Are the languages inflected? A. Bishop THOBURN. -Many a painful headache on my part responds, Yes. Q. Does woman have an influence in India? A. Yes, and the influence of the mothers in the homes affects the husbands too. Q. Have the women part and lot with the men there? A. There are many things which they are not allowed to do. They do have a part in the religion, however, and there are some women who go about who are considered holy women. A. What is the youngest age for girls to be married? A. As some one has said, just as soon as a girl is born she may be married and may become a widow too, a widow for life. Q. Do the women use opium? A. Yes. Little opium boxes sold in our bazaars for the children are very common. BISHOP THOBURN. -- In some parts of the Empire they do not use it. Q. Do the women of India consider themselves very unhappy, and are they very discontented? A. I found very many who were happy with their surroundings. They love their children and their homes, and there is happiness there; but there is much that makes them unhappy, and their happiness is founded on such a very slight foundation. A DELEGATE -- Dr. Butler in his "Land of the Vedas" says that he never saw a woman smile in India. Miss FROST. -- There are very many of them that are happy. Q. What chance is there for a college man to go into business in India or into the professions? Can he do anything in a Christian way? A. DR. JONES. -- The chance is very good in some respects in the great centers. A college man may have fine opportunities as a teacher in government schools, private institutions, or Hindu schools; and there is very little opposition to a man's exercising the largest Christian influence that he desires in that country, whether he be a business or a professional man.

Posted by: AlbertPinto Apr 13 2005, 07:16 AM

In October 2000, Beijing condemned the Vatican for conferring sainthood on 120 Catholics who were killed in China between 1648 and 1930, including both foreign missionaries and Chinese. Although none of those canonized died at the hands of the communists, Beijing defended their killing by saying that most of them "were executed for violation of Chinese laws during the invasion of China by imperialists and colonialists." China took as a special insult the fact that the canonizations took place on October 1, China's National Day, though the Vatican insisted that the date was a coincidence. The following year, Pope John Paul took the unprecedented step of issuing an apology to China for sins committed by Christians against China in the past. He made clear his desire for improved relations with Beijing by saying: "The normalization of relations between the People's Republic of China and the Holy See would undoubtedly have positive repercussions."
Seems like the Pope apologised to everyone under the sun except to Hindu's.

Posted by: agnivayu Apr 13 2005, 02:40 PM

That's because India is run by Sonia who is a Vatican representative, and so she sure won't demand the pope apologize. I have noticed that as Hindu Nationalism has risen in India, Christians are starting to act a lot nicer to Hindus. This seems to reinforce traditional thinking that sometimes a kick in the behind is required to get people to behave. China's defiant attitude is something Hindus need to adopt.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 13 2005, 02:43 PM

Sonia connection with Opus dei is possible as Indian Cardinal Ivan is connected with Opus dei.

The paper said he is close to the conservative and financially powerful Opus Dei within the Roman Catholic church, a movement admired by some and feared by others
I have noticed that as Hindu Nationalism has risen in India, Christians are starting to act a lot nicer to Hindus.
Sure, they are suggesting outsoucring companies in US to higher only Christians in India as they are honest and more reliable than Hindus.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 13 2005, 08:25 PM


1. Regarding Sophia and Mary Magdelene In 1950, there was a major archeological discovery at Nag Hammadi This showed that there were over 300 gospels which were later reduced to 4 and many of these gospels , had data totally different from the standard gospels And sophia and mary magdalene comes from these The church destroyed every gospel other than the 4 synoptic gospels And the Nag Hammadi collection escaped this church censorship
At this moment NBC is showing Mary Magdelene and Jesus issue in Da Vinci "Secret to the Code" programme. And you are RIGHT.

Posted by: k.ram Apr 14 2005, 08:49 AM

Hindus and Sikhs Criticize Pope's Interfaith Policies on Canadian TV Program ** John Paul put proselytizing ahead of fighting poverty: panel 360 Vision special edition looks at the Pope's interfaith legacy. TORONTO, April 6 /CNW/ - Under Pope John Paul II, the Roman Catholic Church has used poverty as "a tool for proselytizing," an interfaith 360 Vision panel discussion heard this evening. Hindu and Sikh panelists argued that the Church has focused on aiding the destitute of Asia and Africa because it seeks to win converts in those parts of the world. At the same time, the institution pays little attention to poverty in Latin America because that continent is already predominantly Catholic. "Historically, once people have been converted they are neglected," said panelist T. Sher Singh, trustee of the Sikh Foundation International. These were among the provocative observations made during tonight's special edition of the flagship VisionTV current affairs series 360 Vision. The broadcast repeats on Thursday, April 7 at 10 p.m. ET. The hour-long panel discussion offered a forthright and often highly critical assessment of John Paul's interfaith legacy from the perspectives of various religions. Leaders from the Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Muslim, Sikh and Hindu communities reflected on the complex nature of the Pope's relationships with other faith groups. Panelists praised the Pope for his efforts to build bridges with people of different faiths, but expressed disappointment at his failure to go beyond symbolic gestures and establish real ecumenical dialogue. John Paul II was the first Pope to pray at a mosque in an Islamic country, and will be long remembered for his acknowledgement of the suffering that Catholics inflicted on Jews during the Holocaust. "He opened a door in saying that people of faith have something to say to each other," said Rachel Turkiniecz, professor of Jewish Studies at York University. At the same time, he was dismissive of non-Abrahamic faiths, and outraged many by calling for the conversion of Asia. Dr. Budhendra Doobay, a Hindu priest, noted that nearly 20% of the world's population is Hindu or Sikh. Yet John Paul made no overtures to those religions when he visited India. Singh, for his part, suggested that the kind of proselytizing condoned during his papacy should be made a "universal crime." Ted Schmidt, editor of the Catholic New Times, said the pontiff was a man of compassion who reached out to all religions, but who nevertheless insisted that "the fullness of truth" resides in the Catholic faith alone. "It's a papacy of profound contradictions," he told the co-moderators, 360 Vision's Sadia Zaman and Kevin O'Keefe. Schmidt said John Paul's "superstar papacy" sidelined many potential leaders within the Church who might have helped to foster interfaith dialogue. Rev. Sheri Di Novo of Toronto's Emanuel/Howard Park United Church agreed, and suggested that the voices of other Catholics - especially lay people - need to be heard more. Panelists also addressed issues such as the Pope's deafening silence on the 1994 genocide in predominantly Catholic Rwanda, his disregard for the Latin America liberation theology movement led by clergy such as the slain Archbishop Oscar Romero of El Salvador, and his failure to address women's concerns. Singh said John Paul's resistance to women's rights is leading the Church in a "suicidal" direction. "Half of the entire Catholic Church is not being looked after, their voices are not being heard, their needs are not being addressed," he said. Imam Abdul Hai Patel from the Islamic Co-ordinating Council of Imams noted as well John Paul's inability "to influence the rich West to share the wealth" with poorer nations. Singh suggested that the time has come for a pontiff who embraces the ideals of St. Francis of Assisi, rather than the trappings of a "Pope emperor." "Talking of poverty in India and Africa is no good until and unless you start practicing it in the Vatican," he said. 360 Vision, hosted by Noelle Richardson, is the only national current affairs show devoted to exploring the role spirituality plays in the lives of Canadians. VisionTV is Canada's multi-faith and multicultural broadcaster, dedicated to programming that celebrates diversity and promotes understanding and tolerance among people of different faiths and cultures.

Posted by: k.ram Apr 14 2005, 12:21 PM

1902 Book Continued.....

THE UNEVANGELIZED MILLIONS IN INDIA REV. C. A. R. JANVIER, M.A., INDIA INDIA is in many respects a land of paradoxes. There are conflicting, apparently mutually contradictory conditions found there. Perhaps the most striking paradox that we find to-day is the deadness or lethargy of the masses in India as compared with the intellectual activity of certain portions of the people. If there be one outstanding fact more striking than another in India, it is the spiritual and moral lethargy of the masses. It is not difficult to explain. Poverty is one explanation. The breadand-butter problem, I might say more correctly the bread problem, is stringent and strenuous. When a man has three meals a day, he may lose one and not seriously miss it; but when he has but one meal a day, the loss of one is very serious, and between many millions in India and famine there is but one poor meal a day. The urgency of the food problem keeps their minds bound down in slavery. Then, a great deal of the explanation is to be found in their moral life. Immorality deadens, and immorality is rife in India. It is flagrant and shameless. There is not time, nor is this a place, to speak of this in detail; but the fact is that in India immorality does not hide its head, and that impurity, dishonesty and false witness are as common as the contrary ought to be. Perhaps I may just hint at one point which cannot be spoken of fully by reminding you of the great "Holi" festival, the most popular of the Hindu festivals, which is so utterly foul, so unspeakably obscene, that for the two or three days when it is at its height no decent woman dares show her face on the street. This lethargy is partly explained, again, by the ignorance of the people. Let us not get the idea, which has been industriously presented in some quarters, that the people are generally an intelligent and cultured and refined people. There are such among them, but the masses are ignorant to a degree which you can hardly understand. There are hundreds of villages in which the one man who can read is the conspicuous man of the village, and in many a village there is not a single man who can read or write. But perhaps more than the poverty and the immorality and the ignorance of the masses, this lethargy is explained by the philosophy of the country. The two great religions, Hinduism and Mohammedanism, though the antipodes each of the other in every other respect, agree in this one thing -- in destroying the sense of personal responsibility. The philosophy of the Mohammedan is fatalism. He has emphasized the sovereignty of God, until God has been lost and only sovereignty remains. Moral responsibility is gone. Adam is represented, when remonstrated with by somebody for the sin in which he involved his race, as saying in reply, presumably with a shrug of his shoulders: "Why do you blame me? When it had been ordained ten thousand years before I was created that I should commit this sin, what could I do?" The Hindu philosophy reaches the same conclusion, because underlying everything else are the two great features of pantheism and the transmigration of souls. The Hindu's pantheism may approach theism or it may descend into polytheism, but still pantheism is there, overshadowing all. All is God; there is nothing but God; I myself am God; my deeds, so far as they exist at all, are practically God's deeds. Or you take the transmigration of souls with its doctrine of "karma," the deeds that follow me from my previous existence. I am what I am because I was what I was; I was what I was because I had been what I had been; and I had been what I had been because before that I had been something else. And so I do what I do because I am in the inexorable grasp of "karma." Then, too, the philosophy of the Hindu and the fatalism of the Mohammedan react upon and intensify one another, till there is nothing that you can call effective public opinion on any moral question. In spite of and out of this mass of deadness and lethargy, God is bringing movement; and we have reached a point to-day in the history of India, where we can use the words, quoting from Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones, "Behold a shaking!" In a single recent copy of The Pioneer, perhaps the leading daily paper of India, I found two significant letters. One, from a prominent Hindu, begins: "There can be no mistake about the signs of a religious revival, which are now to be seen in almost every part of the vast Indian Empire." The other was an open letter from Bishop Weldon, the good Metropolitan, whose return to England seems an irreparable loss to India. It was addressed to Protap Chundra Mozoomdar, the leader of the Bramo-Somaj, and the opening sentence reads: "That India is undergoing a rapid intellectual change is a truth which will, I think, be admitted by every man who has spent even six months there." Into the causes of the renaissance I cannot enter, except to say that it is due mainly to the impact of a vital Christianity upon this lethargic mass of superstition and heathenism. Below this surface movement I wish to speak of three special movements which are in many respects at a climax to-day. The first is the movement among the low caste people. There are four castes in India. The fourth caste is made up of the tradespeople and the menials -- coming down to carrion-eating "Chumars." But below the lowest, away down in the depths of the mire of superstition, you find the mehtars, the pariahs, nearly 50,000,000 strong, -- the downtrodden outcastes for whom Mohammedanism had no light and Hinduism no hope. Thirty years ago the light of Life began to dawn among them. Our brethren, the Methodists, were the pioneers of the movement that reached out the hand of the Master to them. That movement has extended into all parts of India and to many Missions, and tens of thousands of these outcastes have been brought to the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. The movement needs careful watching. Undoubtedly every denomination engaged in this movement, has made some mistakes as to those it has received into the Christian Church. Many of these people are actuated by mixed motives. Every man that Christ gets hold of -- there as here -- is lifted up, in things temporal as well as spiritual. The mehtar sees that for him to become a Christian means a rise, not only spiritually, but socially, educationally and financially. But admitting that some men have been actuated by mixed motives and that mistakes have been made, the fact remains that there is here a great movement, gaining momentum every day and bringing its thousands into the Kingdom. Then there is a second movement, among those who have received the education which the British Government in its thoroughly organized system of schools and colleges is giving to the people. The Government is bound by its contract with the nation to be neutral in matters of religion. The consequent nonreligious education becomes, as you can easily see, an anti-religious education. What is the result? Exactly what you would expect -- a growth of atheism and materialism and agnosticism which has startled even the Hindus and Mohammedans. I once inquired of an intelligent Hindu M.A. how many graduates of his university become infidels. He said that he believed seventy-five per cent. I am convinced that that was an exaggeration; but the fact remains that great numbers of educated men, unable to hold to the old faiths that have been undermined by the science and philosophy of Western education, are drifting out into the darkness of agnosticism and atheism. The only way to meet the situation is to bring men under the influence of a Christ-controlled education, to push missionary work along all the lines, but especially along the higher educational lines. If we are to save the educated, influential young men of India for Christ, if we are to swing this movement from a hellward movement to a Christward one, we are bound to make possible for all India a Christian education. The thirty-four Christian colleges in India should be multiplied by ten. Then there is a third movement to which I should like to allude, the reform movement within Hinduism. You hear of many of these Somajes, somaj meaning simply "society." The Brahmo-Somaj and its branches are all part of a theistic movement, in the main friendly to Christianity. The Arya-Somaj is a pantheistic movement, the bitterest enemy Christianity has in India. Far-sighted Hindus have seen for some time, and others are now beginning to see, that if India is to be kept for Hinduism, some adjustment to new conditions must be made; hence these movements and others like them. There is both good and evil in these movements; good to this extent that these compromises, which will not satisfy the longing of genuine seekers after God, may serve as halfway houses to the truth as found in Christ. On the other hand they are a hindrance, because some honest men who were not satisfied with orthodox Hinduism have been sidetracked as Brahmos or Aryas. But whether as a help or as a hindrance, they are a tribute to the present power of Christianity, and an evidence of the activity among educated young men to-day -- an activity which for us spells opportunity and responsibility. The conclusion, then, that I wish to draw is that God has so prepared India, has so moved there in these days that there is a peculiar and special call, a call that has never before come with the same force; which I cannot help thinking can never come with just the same force again. Thought is crystallizing; men are. forming into molds. If you and I would reach India in this crisis, we much reach her now. God has thrust India into the furnace of His providences; and bringing it out white hot, He says to-day to the Christian Church, "Strikel!" You and I are responsible for the Church's answer. Let me remind you of one other thing in closing. While there is this activity, this partial awakening from lethargy and death, yet the great mass of India is still untouched. We are rejoicing that the results of the last census show that the two and a half million Christians of India have increased to three. The Christians have increased in the last decade four times as much as the entire population has increased (for famine and plague have kept the population down). And yet, while rejoicing in gains of thirty, sixty and seventy-five per cent., and in one district of 130 per cent., we must not shut our eyes to the fact that India still lies in darkness; that if three millions have been reached, 297 millions still need the gospel. The old cry of sin, of need, of darkness and despair, has not ceased one whit; but with it rises this new one, this intense cry of movement, of a great new life which you and I are responsible for winning for the Lord Jesus Christ; so that it may not be a mere galvanizing of old and dead faiths, but the real life of the Lord Jesus Christ transfusing and transforming India. I stand before you to-night as an optimist, not so much because of what I have seen, not so much because of the forces that are at work in India, but an optimist because, first and last and all the time, I believe in the promises of God, and that as surely as God reigns and as surely as His word is truth, one day Jesus Christ is to be crowned King of India. But your hands must put the crown on His brow.

Posted by: k.ram Apr 15 2005, 04:03 PM

Posting in Full. Lest members fall for our media and start blaming someone else and start feeling guilty blink.gif

Attacks on Christian Churches are Self-Inflicted Sarath Bulathsinghala LankaWeb 22/1/04 During the last few days there were reports of attacks on several Christian Churches by unidentified persons. In one recent case the Minister of Christian Affairs and the former Interior Minister himself accused the Evangelical Christian missions as the perpetrators of the crime. There are also reported events where the Evangelists themselves setting fire to their well guarded but ramshackle and illegal structures with the hope of building better structures – in the end with the full compliance from the Christian government in power. Therefore it is foolhardy for Sinhala Buddhists to take full responsibility for such acts. Now let us look at the background in which these events are taking place. Ø It is a well known fact that Sri Lanka has been targeted for conversion to Christianity by the Christian Church and the Western Powers. At present there are over 150 NGOs registered under the Company Act as legally operating companies, working within Sri Lanka with the single goal of converting Sri Lankans to Christianity. Whether it is the established churches or the new evangelical churches their goal is the same. In the case of Evangelical Churches their approach is direct, more open, vociferous and easily seen. In the case of the established churches it is more subtle, secretive and all encompassing. The goal of the Christian Church is to get the Christian population of the host nation past the 20% mark. It is their experience that the rest of the population will convert automatically by peer pressure and by emulation, as has happened in countries like South Korea, in the Philippines and in many minority ethnic enclaves in the rest of Asia not so long ago. The modus operandi of the Church in this respect is many and multifaceted. Ø The Sri Lankan President and the Prime Minister are both Christians masquerading as Buddhists. Ø The majority of the cabinet posts in the ruling party in Sri Lanka are held by Christians. Ø The premier News Media group, the Lake House group founded by the Buddhist patriot D R Wijewardhana, although a nationalized enterprise is today in the hands of the Christians. Ø All other news media are in the hands of the Christians or controlled by them. The newly appointed head of the government controlled Rupavahini is an ex evangelical pastor. He was also the ex Presidential spokesman. In most places it is Christians or their name sake Buddhist stooges who are looking after Buddhist Affairs. Ø Christians occupy most other important positions in the administration and in the now very important business circles. What the Christians couldn’t achieve with their coup in 1962, they have today accomplished without a shot being fired or even a finger being raised. Curious fact is that it is the majority Sinhala Buddhists who have voted these traitors into power. Ø Christians are even the chief sponsors of Buddhist establishments. Eg: Kelani Raja Maha Viharaya, Kotte Raja Maha Viharaya, Dambulla Raja Maha Viharaya and Maha Bodhi Establishment – and who knows where else?. By the foregoing it is abundantly clear that the Sinhalese Buddhists who comprise nearly 70% of the population in Sri Lanka are contained, gagged and tethered with little room to move. It is a tiny fraction of this population who silently came to pay respect to the Late Ven Gangodawila Soma Thero a few days ago. The others put up yellow flags all over the island for the same occasion. When an altercation took place at the funeral it was the Buddhists who were threatened by the all powerful Christian President. This is a common tactic employed by the Christian Governments in power since that of the treacherous J R Jayewardene administration. They have continued to threaten the Buddhists in the first place with the full force of law even for the tiniest infringement. One of the most successful methods of the Christian Church, (be they Fundamentalist Evangelists or the already established Christian Church) is to provoke a poor third world population till there is a knee-jerk reaction like an isolated attack on an evangelist or a Christian Church. Immediately something untoward happens the news will be passed on to all wire services and electronic media that there has been a violation of human rights of innocent Christians. The real aggrieved party the Buddhists, Hindus or Muslims will go on to become the aggressors in the eyes of the world. The intention is to make the Buddhists feel guilty collectively. The Buddhist body politic who are tethered, quartered and struggling for their last breadth are denied even in their death throes a final knee jerk to free themselves. The world media pounces back on the hapless Buddhists, calling them extremists, chauvinists, racists, violators of human rights and democratic freedoms. This same scenario is repeated elsewhere in majority Hindu India, majority Muslim Pakistan and Indonesia and all what we hear are attacks against ‘innocent Christians and Christian Churches’ and more and more crocodile tears from the Christian West. We want the Christian West to know that we know of their designs for Asia in the 21st Century. Tobacco companies and the Christianity Inc are today in the same boat. They are rapidly loosing customers in the West. Now they are seeking a “rich harvest in the East” as very eloquently expressed by the aging Pope on his last visit to India. In 1983 after the now infamous Tamil pogrom conducted by the goons of the then UNP regime, they cleverly manipulated the media to show that those who were responsible for the pogrom were the Sinhalese Buddhists. Christian - Ananda Tissa de Alwis the then Minister of Information and Constitutional Affairs went on to say that behind the Tamil pogrom, there were plans a foot for the Sinhala Buddhists to attack the Sinhala Christians. We know the truth – this lie was to make the Sinhala Buddhists feel collectively guilty and silent. The ruse worked and even to this day there are many idiotic Sinhalese who believe that Sinhala Buddhists were responsible for the pogrom. The fact is that the pogrom was the work of the UNP Mafia of which the present day Prime Minister of Batalanda fame was a key participant and a prime mover. Add to this we too have among us a few misguided and misinformed individuals who start finger pointing at the Buddhists. For these few who see no evil, hear no evil and smell no evil of the Christian establishment should be told to remain silent, for they definitely cannot see the woods for the trees. They simply cannot seem to see the larger picture. The larger picture is that we are in the heights of a 500 year old saga of Christian domination of our political establishment. We have never been so insecure since Don Juan Dharmapala almost handed over sovereignty of Sri Lanka to the despicable Portuguese. Then we have the “Enlightened Christians” who offer us a shoulder to cry on and side with the Sinhala Buddhists in condemning the acts of the Evangelists. In the process they are busy covering the tracks of their own churches who too are involved surreptitiously in destroying all what is Sinhala and Buddhist in our country. The cultural invasion is on going with Buddhist terminology freely used to get their confused thinking across. Buddhist rituals are freely used to mask their actions. Christian children are given Buddhist sounding names so that they can mingle among Buddhists un-noticed. They simply have no shame left. It is important to remember that there is not a single Christian Church of whatever denomination who does not have skeletons in their cupboards. They have all been involved with mass murder, religious inquisitions and genocide, slavery, culture destruction in one time or the other in history; the most recent being endorsing Nazi war crimes, protecting and sheltering war criminals and the genocide in Rwanda. Their pedophile priests are the toast of the world today! On the other hand if there are truly Enlightened Christians who follow the true message of the Jesus Christ and not world domination through immoral and uncouth means, then they should all get together and confront their own Churches and their hierarchy about their despicable plans for Sri Lanka and the rest of Asia. They must tell the Church that they are not proud of their plans for Asia and of their secret plans to convert Buddhist and Hindus. Otherwise we want them to know, that they are just “Running with the hares and are secretively hunting with the hounds”. Please don’t come to infiltrate our organizations or movements for it is down right low, uncouth and despicable. Enlightened Christians please form your own organization to save Sri Lanka from being destroyed. 2500 years of rich history, culture and achievements are also a part and parcel of your heritage. If you do this we will respect and honor you. First and foremost get yourselves exorcised of the devils that haunt you by confronting the devilish plans of your own church. If you love Jesus and his message of Love then you will not become tools of the institutionalized Christianity and its devilish manifestations for world domination by foul means. To date, we are yet to encounter a single Church Organization who are for a Unitary Sri Lanka or are against the division and balkanization of Sri Lanka. The Christian Church in whatever manifestation, be it Catholic, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian or other has always fostered and promoted the larger interests of the Ealamists locally and most importantly internationally. In the ensuing balkanization of Sri Lanka, the Catholic Church is working secretively to establish its own enclave in the North Western Province of Sri Lanka. The recent ramblings at the Dambulla Raja Maha Viharaya is only the tip of the ice berg! In this background it will be futile not to expect more attacks on Christian Churches in the future unless the World Wide Christian Church agrees not to harass third world populations with unethical religious conversions and other despicable actions. If there are any such attacks most will be self inflicted ones to lay blame on the Sinhala Buddhists. Any “knee jerk” reactions that may come from a population of a 13 Million Buddhists should be considered as inevitable and statistically not significant enough to lay blame on the entire Buddhist population. As Buddhists we do not condone violence but it is important to remember that we are yet to become Blameless Arahants! While the Christian Administration and the world press are quick to pounce on the Buddhists for all the wrong reasons the same is not true for all the crimes committed by the Christian LTTE in Sri Lanka. All press reports on the atrocities committed by the Tamil insurgency led by the Christian LTTE are justified and legitimized in two simple sentences which always read as follows: “The Tiger insurgency was launched in 1983 on behalf of minority Hindu Tamils, who allege discrimination at the hands of the mostly Buddhist Sinhalese majority. The war has left 65,000 people dead.” The Hindus and Buddhists are now slowly coming to the inevitable conclusion that they are staring at each other for all the wrong reasons in the world. Buddhists and Hindus lived side by side for hundreds of years visiting each others temples and kovils till the Christian powers and the Christian Church came to Sri Lanka! Only a true Buddhist leadership can return our beleaguered motherland to true peace. There can never be peace under the current incompetent Christian leadership. Every report on any future attacks on the Christian Establishment in Sri Lanka should be followed by this single sentence or sentences to the effect – “The attacks on Christian Churches in Sri Lanka and in the rest of Asia are outcomes of the misadventures of the Christian Church in Asia!”

Posted by: k.ram Apr 15 2005, 08:08 PM


OF WHAT USE IS IT FOR ME PERSONALLY TO TRY TO HELP SAVE INDIA? REV. J. W. M. A. CONKLIN, FORMERLY OF INDIA WHY is it worth my while to help to save India by going, or if not by going, by doing just as much as if I went? India is a povertystricken country. You have heard to-day of its poverty. You would know it, if you had not heard anything about its famine. No country that is not poverty-stricken could have such a famine; it would be impossible. You would know it if you saw the way in which they work; if you saw the men and women go into the harvest field with a sickle; if you saw a man sawing a big log into boards. Those people have not gone forward in mechanical arts one inch. I think, of all nations whose labor statistics are published, that their annual wage is the lowest. Is it worth while for a man or woman to go and help raise those people out of that economic distress? If a man or a woman can go and teach them to work to more advantage so that a quarter of them need not be hungry for half the year, it would be worth while just for that. India is a country stricken with filth. "Oh," but you say, "they are always bathing." Yes, but what is the use of always bathing when you always bathe in dirty water? They go to their tanks and ponds and step down into them and wash their clothes and brush their teeth, and then they dip the water out in pots and take it home to drink and cook with. How would you know that it is dirt-stricken? Because of the bubonic plague and cholera and smallpox, which are filth diseases. The people of India know nothing about hygiene; they hardly know what disinfectant means. Their common disinfectant is cow-dung and water, and that is a great improvement over the other smells which you get from the houses. This is plain talk, but it is a plain subject, and we must face it. Is it worth while to go and teach those people how to live cleanly, how to get rid in a measure of these diseases, how to be clean and sweet and pure physically? Is it worth while to bind up some of their wounds and heal some of their diseases? Yes, it is worth a man's while or a woman's while to go just for that. India is an ignorant country. You have heard this afternoon from these missionaries who have been in the field that the women cannot read. Only seven per cent. of the whole population can read. We in this country cannot imagine what real ignorance is. We of the States talk about our negroes, half of whom can read. We talk about our Indians; half of them can read, and in the Dominion more of them than that can read. Last year 300,000 people came to the United States in steerage, and there was a great cry in our papers because twenty-five per cent. of them could not read. India, according to that, with seven per cent. who can read, is ten times worse off than that steerage immigration. I went into a village once, the head-man of which could make figures and add them up and sign his name. He could not possibly read a book. What are you going to do with your magazines and newspapers and Bibles in such a community as that? If a person went out there as a teacher and simply taught those people to read, and brought these great sources of knowledge within their reach, that is worth a life. India is cursed with a girlhood and motherhood and wifehood that is utterly dwarfed. I need not go into particulars; you have heard much about that this afternoon. Kipling says: "What need of the men talking about political advance or social agitation, when the most important moral half of their people are behind zenana walls, are doomed to child marriage and perpetual widowhood?" He says that the condition of that part of the community is rotten, utterly rotten, beastly rotten. Those men talk about political and social advance. I have seen the mothers that bore those men and say, God forgive the men. Would you go out to India to relieve the women, to take care of the little girls, to seek to change the customs as to child marriage or perpetual widowhood? Would that be worth your life? India is a nation that has utterly distorted ideas of its heavenly Father. The word God to us means good. What does your drunkard, or harlot, or criminal behind the bars, think of when he says God? If he says it soberly, he thinks always of two characteristics -- they are ingrained and inrooted, -- that God is pure, and that God is merciful, the two most precious thoughts in all the world. The New Testament places God upon the white throne and upon the throne of grace. India does not know that. Their histories of gods are such that I would not dare read-them to you here; they are too filthy. They do not know that God is merciful. When you find a man putting a hook through his back, walking on spikes and people sometimes offering their children in order to get peace with God, what kind of an idea of God's mercy do they possess? Idolatry is the darkest, deepest and blackest, the most tragic thing in this world to-day. The idea of millions of these people created in the image of God, bowing down to the serpent and to the monkey, things that are lower than themselves! You know what it means when we read in our Bibles "the Most High God"; and they have in monkeys their most low god! Some people laugh at idolatry, some people say that it is perfectly absurd. St. Paul gave the most vivid definition of it that I have ever seen. He said that men have "changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,"--there is your Krishna, a man who was deified because he had 40,000 concubines, -- into the image of "birds, and four-footed beasts and creeping things." I have no bird image; but I have seen the Hindus by hundreds worshiping the vultures and birds and four-footed beasts and a combination of the elephant and the man and creeping things, especially the cobra, one of the great gods of India. You have here a perfectly literal interpretation of Paul's description. Would you think it worth while to spend your life to go to these people and teach them of our "Father which art in heaven," of Him who sent His Son -- embodying Himself -- to the Cross? Is it worth while to teach these people how to worship their Father? I have suggested that it is worth while to go to India to do any one of these things, to remove poverty, dirt and filth, ignorance, the dwarfing and disability of woman, and most of all the distortion of thought concerning Him who is the Father of us all. Now I come to you and I place these things together as a holy trust, and I say to you, Go, and carry this gospel of Jesus Christ that removes them all like magic. Christianity removes poverty, gradually it is true; but when you realize that Christ was the most enterprising Being that ever lived, and that the Christian nations are the most enterprising nations in the world, you will see that he who follows Christ grafts enterprise upon his physical life and it leads to the removing of dirt. Compare the Christian congregations with heathen assemblies, if you do not believe it. There are more schools on the mission fields to-day than there are churches. The gospel removes this awful disability of woman like magic. There is no thought of child marriage in our Christian congregations, no thought of perpetual widowhood, no thought of the zenana. Without Christ it is difficult to effect all these reforms taking one at a time; but if you take Christ with you, you will sweep them all out of the earth. This Christian gospel brings the Father of lights within the reach of these people. Is it worth your life to go there and remove these obstacles, to spend your life in planting a church, a school and a hospital? I want to add that we have to awake as Christians to the realization of the parable of the Good Samaritan. It has not been applied much to missions, but we shall be driven to it. If we do not minister to these nations of India and China as the Samaritan did, we shall be like the priest and the Levite and shall get the Levite's curse. We have to take that wounded man and put him on the beast and walk ourselves; and the missionary practically gets off the beast and walks. Why does he leave his home here? To make homes there. He leaves social life here to make a new social life there; he leaves his church here and goes there to found a church and establish the Lord's table and perform the ordinance of baptism and give them what he in a sense has lost himself. He has gotten down off the beast and he has put the wounded man on it and is walking himself; and the Church at home must do likewise. You say, "But that is fanatical"; then Christianity is fanatical. Mr. Forman spoke about " many adversaries," but he did not mention most of the adversaries of the work in the foreign field. A bishop said the other day that the chief adversaries to missions were the tesselated pavements in the churches and the stained glass windows and the handsome organs. The question is, Shall we get down off the beast and put the poor neglected heathen on that beast and let him ride? Listen to the voice of our glorious Christ sounding louder than ever before; it is a voice like the sound of the trumpet and like the sound of many waters, and He is calling, "Follow Me." But where? Back to Christ? Never say "Back to Christ!" He has always been ahead of you. He went to India before Carey, he went to China before Morrison, and He is saying, "Follow me." You cannot get back to Him; He wants you to get up to Him.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 17 2005, 07:58 AM

My Northeast India Mission of 2003-4 - by Stephen Knapp You have to understand that the Christian missionaries and militants have been working for years to bring most of the states of the northeast to secede from India to become a separate Christian country, even if it means by force and brutality. For example, few people seem to be aware that in the small state of Tripura alone, over 10,000 people have been killed in the past 20 years by Christian militants through what you could call ethnic cleansing. The killing is done to instill fear in those who are not Christian, or who do not want to separate from India. And these militants are often supported by the Christian groups who provide money and reasoning for what they do. But we in the VFA are not anti- Christian, yet this sort of Christian indoctrination is the single biggest factor for losing the basic traditions of the people in the northeast region. I wonder why this and Kashmir are hardly ever mentioned in the Western press. The Gujarat riots were eagerly covered by the BBC. Benjamin

Posted by: agnivayu Apr 17 2005, 03:30 PM

QUOTE(k.ram @ Apr 16 2005, 08:38 AM)
OF WHAT USE IS IT FOR ME PERSONALLY TO TRY TO HELP SAVE INDIA? REV. J. W. M. A. CONKLIN, FORMERLY OF INDIA WHY is it worth my while to help to save India by going, or if not by going, by doing just as much as if I went? India is a povertystricken country. You have heard to-day of its poverty. You would know it, if you had not heard anything about its famine. No country that is not poverty-stricken could have such a famine; it would be impossible. You would know it if you saw the way in which they work; if you saw the men and women go into the harvest field with a sickle; if you saw a man sawing a big log into boards. Those people have not gone forward in mechanical arts one inch. I think, of all nations whose labor statistics are published, that their annual wage is the lowest. Is it worth while for a man or woman to go and help raise those people out of that economic distress? If a man or a woman can go and teach them to work to more advantage so that a quarter of them need not be hungry for half the year, it would be worth while just for that. .........................
Arrogant Christian racist monkey, if he could see the world today he would pi** in his pants. Just wait another few more decades, we shall see how backward Hindus really are.

Posted by: rama harish Apr 17 2005, 09:56 PM

QUOTE(agnivayu @ Apr 18 2005, 04:00 AM)
QUOTE(k.ram @ Apr 16 2005, 08:38 AM)
OF WHAT USE IS IT FOR ME PERSONALLY TO TRY TO HELP SAVE INDIA? REV. J. W. M. A. CONKLIN, FORMERLY OF INDIA WHY is it worth my while to help to save India by going, or if not by going, by doing just as much as if I went? India is a povertystricken country. You have heard to-day of its poverty. You would know it, if you had not heard anything about its famine. No country that is not poverty-stricken could have such a famine; it would be impossible. You would know it if you saw the way in which they work; if you saw the men and women go into the harvest field with a sickle; if you saw a man sawing a big log into boards. Those people have not gone forward in mechanical arts one inch. I think, of all nations whose labor statistics are published, that their annual wage is the lowest. Is it worth while for a man or woman to go and help raise those people out of that economic distress? If a man or a woman can go and teach them to work to more advantage so that a quarter of them need not be hungry for half the year, it would be worth while just for that. .............
Arrogant Christian racist monkey, if he could see the world today he would pi** in his pants. Just wait another few more decades, we shall see how backward Hindus really are.
REV. J. W. M. A. CONKLIN # the Frigging Illegitimate child of a dopy peadophilic pope , I summon you onto the altar and deflesh your abhorized chimp body. Thou ceded your ataraxical bowel headed malignant repugnant hatred

Posted by: AlbertPinto Apr 18 2005, 10:22 AM

According to a prophecy made in the 12th century, there would be only 112 popes left. Whoever is elected Pope in the next few days will be the 111th. After that, according to the prophecy, there will be just one more pope. And then Rome -- and the Catholic church -- will be wiped out. In the words of the prediction, 'the city of seven hills shall be destroyed, and the dreadful Judge shall judge the people.' The man who made this prediction was St Malachy, an Irish bishop and clairvoyant. While on a visit to Rome, St Malachy is said to have fallen into a trance and seen a vision of all the popes to come. Writing in the year 1139, he described each of them in a single, sometimes cryptic, but ultimately apt, Latin phrase. And so far he has been remarkably -- even eerily – accurate. For example, he described Pope Paul VI, who held the position from 1963 to 1978, as Flos Florum, which means 'Flower of Flowers.' Paul VI's coat of arms, as it happened, featured three fleurs-de-lis, or iris blossoms. His successor, John Paul I, who was Pope for one ill-fated month before he suddenly died, was described by St Malachy as De Medietate Lunae, or 'Of the half moon.' People were puzzled by the description at first, but after he died they realised that he had come to power at the time of the half moon and died by the next half moon. The late John Paul II was described as De Labore Solis, or 'Of the eclipse of the sun.' It turns out that he was born on May 18, 1920 during a solar eclipse. These prophecies were first published in the 16th century, and the Vatican tried, for perhaps obvious reasons, to suppress them, but failed. The next Pope, whose name will be announced shortly, is described in the prophecies as Gloria Olivae, or 'The glory of the olive.' What exactly does this clue mean? We cannot tell as yet. Some believe that it means he will come from the Benedictine order, which is symbolised by the olive. Others argue that the olive signifies Israel. As in the case of many prophets and seers, St Malachy's clues often become clear to us only after the fact. In the 112th and final prophecy St Malachy refers darkly to a Pope he calls Petrus Romanus, or Peter the Roman. 'In extreme persecution, the seat of the Holy Roman Church will be occupied by Peter the Roman, who will lead his sheep through many tribulations, at the end of which the city of seven hills shall be destroyed, and the dreadful Judge shall judge the people.' As the college of cardinals works feverishly to elect the successor to Pope John Paul II over the next few days, they will have to wrestle with various criteria -- political, organisational, theological and moral. And to make things more complicated, they may also want to make sure that, in order to forestall any further doomsaying, whoever they choose has absolutely nothing to do with the words 'The glory of the olive.' But with these things you can never really tell: the description often manifests itself only much later. Pope Benedict XV, for example, was referred to by St Malachy as Religio Depopulata, or 'Religion laid waste,' and at first nobody could understand the relevance of this clue. It was only after his reign unfolded, from 1914 onwards, that World War I and the Russian revolution made its meaning terribly, terribly clear.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 18 2005, 11:00 AM

John Paul: A loveless legacy Sandhya Jain Seemingly, all roads led to Vatican City last week. Virtually all political eminences of the Western world, as also national and spiritual dignitaries of other countries and religious traditions, flocked to pay respects to the Bishop of Rome, shepherd of the Roman Catholic Church, who had one of the best attended funerals in world history. Through all the solemn grandeur of the ceremony, however, one noted with admiration the silent dissent of the People's Republic of China, which simply stayed at home. Unlike India's political elite, who seek international endorsement through self-abasement and compromise, China's mandarins demand respect through dogged assertion of national pride. Western media hype over the funeral of John Paul II did not send Beijing scurrying to send a representative for a photo-op with George Bush or Cardinal Ratzinger. Instead, the atheist regime remembered how the Chinese people suffered at the hands of the Catholic Church and how the late Pope bestowed sainthood upon 120 "evil-doing sinners". Bishop Fu Tieshan of the state-run Catholic Church said: "Some of those canonised" perpetrated outrages such as raping and looting in China and committed unforgivable crimes" (Associated Press, October 1, 2000). One saint was Albericus Crescitelli, an Italian missionary who died in the anti-Western, anti-Christian Boxer uprising. He "was notorious for taking the 'right of the first night' of each bride under his diocese," according to the State Administration of Religious Affairs. India, however, crawled without being asked to bend. Perhaps out of deference to the Italian-Roman Catholic origins of UPA chairperson Sonia Gandhi, the Government followed Italy in declaring three days of State mourning. And far from remembering the atrocities of the Goa Inquisition, for which the Pope refused to apologise on his India visit, every luminary with access to a centimetre of newspaper space recorded a vacuous eulogy in honour of the departed soul. In Tamil Nadu, where the Kanchi Shankaracharya is being persecuted by a vindictive regime trying to whip up anti-Brahmin votes for the Assembly elections, the Directorate of Schools issued a Government Order directing all schools to fly the Indian flag half-mast on Friday April 8, 2005 to mourn the death of Pope John Paul II, and send a "compliance report". Some of us wanted to ask why a secular government was issuing GOs to secular State schools and private religious schools (not Government-aided) to mourn the religious head of a foreign religious institution. But we thought it would be uncultured and politically incorrect, so we remained silent. Such Oriental niceties have been given short shrift in the White Western world that Karol Wojtyla straddled with elan for nearly three decades. Vatican's decision to let Cardinal Bernard Law lead a funeral Mass in Rome has caused outrage in America, where Law had to quit as Boston Archbishop in 2002 for protecting paedophile priests (Reuters, April 8, 2005). The Archdiocese is currently paying over $86 million as compensation to hundreds of persons abused by priests. Law's rehabilitation as archpriest of the Basilica of St Mary Major in Rome has therefore upset the devout. Many Catholics found John Paul II's papacy disappointing because of his painful indifference towards married priests, women who lost lives, fertility and health in botched abortions, theologians dissatisfied with many aspects of church doctrine, persons caring for AIDS victims, gay Catholics longing for communion, victims of sexually abuse by priests, women wishing to be priests, and so on. The Pope's high profile vis-a-vis the Communist regimes of the erstwhile Soviet Union and Eastern Europe in no way exonerates his "episodic and selective commitments to human rights throughout the world", as Frances Kissling, president, Catholics for a Free Choice, put it succinctly. Kissling was anguished that while the Pope had no problem meeting persons like Kurt Waldheim, he steadfastly refused to meet a single victim of clerical sexual abuse. It bears noting that some the John Paul II's close friends, notably Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer and Kurt Krenn, Bishop of St Poeltin, were forced out of office amidst allegations of sex scandals. Regarding John Paul II's reputation as a crusader for human rights, well, many Catholic women think he excluded half of humanity. A staunch advocate of traditional Church policies on women, he refused to ordain women as priests, and condemned contraception, condoms and abortion. He and his conservative advisers worked hard to roll back reforms from the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), which gave women more say in the liturgy and allowed altar girls to serve Mass. In fact, the Church excommunicated seven women from Germany, Austria and the United States, who were ordained in Austria in 2002. This arch conservatism alienated both religious and lay women who felt ignored, with the result that the US alone saw a sharp drop in nuns' orders, from 179954 in 1965 to 73316 in 2003. In Ireland, church opposition to divorce and contraception has led it to being perceived as irrelevant and outdated. Critics especially carp at the Pope's opposition to the use of condoms to combat AIDS in Africa, artificial birth control to curb rising population in many countries, and abortion for Bosnian women (mostly Muslims) who were raped by Serb soldiers. Much has been made of his extensive travels across the world, and his so-called inter-faith dialogues. Former Prime Minister Inder Gujral's wife, Sheila, lauds him for visiting synagogues and mosques and meeting the Dalai Lama (Indian Express, April 9, 2005). It is true that the Pope apologised to the Jews for the Vatican's anti-Semitism and its aloofness during Hitler's Final Solution. He also apologised to the Eastern Orthodox Christians and the Muslims for papal advocacy of the Crusades and the forced conversions and massacres in the Balkans during World War II. But how sincere were these apologies? The Pope elevated to sainthood such scum as Cardinal Stepinac of Croatia, who supported the Nazi puppet regime of Ante Pavelic and endorsed the shameful treatment of Orthodox Christians and Jews there. Similarly, Jose Maria Escriva de Balaguer, the sinister founder of Opus Dei and close ally of the Spanish dictator, General Franco, was canonised. Many justly felt that such actions undid the benefits expected from "dialogue". Of course, cunning political spiritualist that he was, John Paul II was much too canny to advocate respect for or dialogue with Hindu dharma, the native and majority faith of this land. This is because he had identified India as a recruiting ground to revive his dying church by converting the populace and subjugating it to the diktat of Rome. Ms Gujral may not notice or care, but those of us who love our Ishta Devatas see the hectoring of men like Karol Wojtyla as an affront to our religious freedom. Even Western Catholics are disturbed over the manner in which Karol Wojtyla, from the time of his tenure as Archbishop of Krakow, aligned completely with the financially powerful but secretive Opus Dei movement, which has been linked to fascist regimes and is now active in the world of finance, politics and journalism. He went so far as to give Opus Dei special legal status, exempting the organisation from supervision by local bishops, as dissident German theologian Hans Kung points out. Clearly the Catholic Church is in deep crisis. It remains to be seen if it can see the way forward.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 18 2005, 01:16 PM

Villagers Ostracised, Threatened For Not Converting To Christianity By SAR NEWS BHUBANESWAR, April 14 2005 Twenty-two families belonging to the Mochi shoemaker community in Malabhanaja village of Ganjam district were allegedly ostracised for not embracing Christianity. The aggrieved families had drawn the attention of the district administration to their plight but when they failed to get justice, they filed a public interest litigation (PIL) in the Orissa High Court. Acting on the PIL, a two-member division Bench of the High Court comprising Chief Justice Sujit Burman Roy and Laxmikanta Mohapatra issued show-cause notices to the State Home department secretary, the district collector, the superintendent of police of Ganjam and officer in charge of Digapahandi police station under which Malabhanaja village falls. The Nikhila Utkal Ambedkar Mochikula Samaj (NUAMS) that passed the ostracism orders on the 22 families has also been served the notice. According to the PIL, NUAMS issued a notice to the residents of Malabhanaja September last year calling them for a meeting on the 12th of the same month. At the meeting, the participants were asked to convert to Christianity to be part of NUAMS. Those who disagreed were forced to pay a penalty of Rs. 21,501 and face ostracism. The 22 families of Malabhanaja who failed to attend the meeting were ostracised immediately. According to rules, none of the members of the 22 ostracised families would be allowed to have any relationship with an outsider. They were also banned from marrying in any of the 21 surrounding villages. Besides all types of communication between Malabhanaja and other villages were cut off. Violators will be tied to a tree and severely beaten up. The PIL seeks punitive measures against people responsible for such ostracism. When contacted, Rev. R. Chinnath of Bhubaneswar said conversion by force was frowned upon by Catholics and all kinds of coercion were illegal and unethical.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 18 2005, 01:29 PM

“We have also been promised trips abroad for conferences. We have been told that it is easier for us to get job visa to Europe and the US if we have a Christian name,” revealed Balwinder, a new convert. While sensing a deep-rooted conspiracy behind the conversions, a senior SGPC official demanded that the state government should look into the fund flow of Christian groups and inquire whether they were being judiciously used or not. The SGPC has also decided to prepare a database to know the rate of conversions of all communities in the state and the number of churches recently erected in the villages.
Promised trips abroad to appear in front of Uncle congressional and other so called human rights organization.

Posted by: k.ram Apr 19 2005, 02:23 AM

Posted by: Viren Apr 19 2005, 11:02 AM

Posted by: Mudy Apr 19 2005, 11:14 AM

Traunstein was also where Ratzinger went through the harrowing years of Nazi rule and World War II. In his memoirs, Ratzinger wrote that he was enrolled in the Nazi youth movement against his will when he was 14 in 1941, when membership was compulsory. He said he was soon let out because of his studies for the priesthood. Two years later he was drafted into a Nazi anti-aircraft unit as a helper, a common taks for teenage boys too young to be soldiers. A year later he was released, only to be sent to the Austrian-Hungarian border to construct tank barriers. He deserted the Germany army in April 1945, in the final weeks of the war in Europe, and returned to Traunstein — a risky move, since deserters were shot on the spot if caught, or publicly hanged as examples to others. When he arrived home, U.S. soldiers took him prisoner and held him in a POW camp for several weeks. Upon his release, he re-entered the seminary.
I was RIGHT only European, no chance for colored people. They will not call this discrimination.

Posted by: AlbertPinto Apr 19 2005, 12:17 PM

European or not our Indian Christians will still prefer to follow them. How does St Malachy's prediction about the 111th pope "Glory of the Olive" match up with what has happened ? As per interpretations Some believe that it means he will come from the Benedictine order. Does the Name 'Benedict' have anything to do with benedictine Order ?

Posted by: LSrini Apr 19 2005, 01:04 PM

QUOTE(AlbertPinto @ Apr 19 2005, 03:17 PM)
European or not our Indian Christians will still prefer to follow them. How does St Malachy's prediction about the 111th pope "Glory of the Olive" match up with what has happened ? As per interpretations Some believe that it means he will come from the Benedictine order. Does the Name 'Benedict' have anything to do with benedictine Order ?
Yes. It looks to be so.

Posted by: LSrini Apr 19 2005, 01:19 PM

10. PETER THE ROMAN - This final Pope will likely be Satan, taking the form of a man named Peter who will gain a worldwide allegiance and adoration. He will be the final antichrist which prophecy students have long foretold. If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. The 112th prophesy states: "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End."
Tirupathi Tirumala is seven-hills. Which christian city is seven-hilled?

Posted by: agnivayu Apr 19 2005, 02:32 PM

QUOTE(LSrini @ Apr 20 2005, 01:49 AM)
10. PETER THE ROMAN - This final Pope will likely be Satan, taking the form of a man named Peter who will gain a worldwide allegiance and adoration. He will be the final antichrist which prophecy students have long foretold. If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. The 112th prophesy states: "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End."
Tirupathi Tirumala is seven-hills. Which christian city is seven-hilled?
Rome ?

Posted by: sankara Apr 19 2005, 04:09 PM

10. PETER THE ROMAN - This final Pope will likely be Satan, taking the form of a man named Peter who will gain a worldwide allegiance and adoration. He will be the final antichrist which prophecy students have long foretold. If it were possible, even the very elect would be deceived. The 112th prophesy states: "In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church there will reign Petrus Romanus, who will feed his flock amid many tribulations; after which the seven-hilled city will be destroyed and the dreadful Judge will judge the people. The End."
All the popes are reincarnates of Satan; Ratzinger thus is no different. Considering his ultra-orthodoxy views on catholicism and resistence to reforms, it might mean that the conversion noose around Hindus and those of non-abrahamic faiths will tighten. More vigilance required in India. Just a thought - the south american and african catholics are quire disappointed that the catholic leadership continues to remain within the European continent. I wonder what the Indian catholics/christians are thinking at this moment; the Indian cardinal will return home soon, perhaps downcast and shuffling his feet with disappointment and sick with the realization that while the Indian flocks are good at grazing, their shephard must always be from the west.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 19 2005, 04:33 PM

His connection with Nazi/Fascist youth movement, makes him a good candidate for Visa rejection in US. But this will never happen. biggrin.gif Seven Hills - Rome and Salzburg (Austria)

Posted by: Ashok Kumar Apr 19 2005, 04:43 PM

City of seven hills: Also the anicent Rajagriha or Girivraja, capital of Magadha-Mahajanapada during and before Ajatashatru's time. Buddha spent a lot of time in Rajagriha and gave a famous sermon there at Griddhakoota mountain.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 19 2005, 04:59 PM

Istanbul was known as the city on the seven hills. Whether Constantine the Great was actually aware of the fact that the new city was, founded on seven hills remains uncertain. It was common custom in the centuries before Christ for people in the Roman world to refer to the City of Rome itself as the "City of Seven Hills." the City of Jerusalem as it existed in the time of Christ Jesus was also reckoned to be the "City of Seven Hills." This fact was well recognized in Jewish circles

Posted by: Viren Apr 19 2005, 07:07 PM

N S Rajaram in an article about 5 years ago:

QUOTE By Navaratna S. Rajaram It is time to choose between their country and the Vatican's imperial agenda says Navaratna S. Rajaram The Pope and the Vatican have shown their true face. In a just released document titled "Declaration of Lord Jesus" the Vatican proclaims non-Christians to be in a "gravely deficient situation" and even non-Catholic churches have "defects" because they do not acknowledge the primacy of the Pope. This of course means the Vatican refuses to acknowledge the spiritual right of the Hindus to their beliefs and practices and asserts also the right of its agents in India and other countries to engage in conversion. During his visit to India the Pope went further: he demanded conversion as a 'fundamental right' though the Vatican does not recognise any right beyond the Pope's authority. All this claim is based not only on the doctrinal authority supposedly deriving from the word of Christ, but also the supreme authority of the Pope as the spiritual head of the world to which followers of all other "gravely deficient" religions—like Hinduism—must submit. Without this there is no salvation. Who issued this statement proclaiming the supremacy of the Catholic religion and the supreme spiritual authority of the Pope? It was one Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, head of a Vatican office known as the congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. This is probably the most powerful and influential office in the Vatican. And of all the Cardinals, Ratzinger is closest to Pope John Paul II. The public knows very little about this shadowy office, known since 1965 as the congregation for the Docrtine of the Faith. Prior to that date it was known as the Holy Office. And until 1542 it was known as the Holy Inquisition—a name synonymous with terror and torture in the name of God and Christ. Cardinal Ratzinger is called its secretary; in the old days he would be known as the Grand Inquisitor. It was this office that persecuted Galileo and burnt scientist Giordano Bruno at the stake. It was this office again that sanctioned the Goa Inquisition as demanded by 'Saint' Francis Xavier, at which were thousands of innocent Indians persihed. It is the same office now that is denouncing Hindus as "gravely deficient" who need to be converted to save them. All this shows that Jesus and God are only front figures behind which the Vatican can advance its imperial agenda headed by the Pope. This is an old game. This supreme authority of the Pope was laid down in the mid-1100s, by a Benedictine monk, Gratian of Bologna, with the help of forged documents. As noted by the Church historian (and former Catholic priest) Peter de Rosa: "His Decretum or the Code of Canon Law, was easily the most influential book ever written by a Catholic. It was peppered with three centuries of forgeries... with his own additions. Of the 324 passages he quotes... only eleven are genuine." And de Rosa further observes: "The Pope, he (Gratian) declared, ... is superior to and the source of all laws without qualification.

Posted by: nachiketa Apr 20 2005, 05:53 AM

The catholic church is scared. Their home base is falling while they were busy trying to convert Asia, Africa and Latin America. Ratzinger's priority is to fight the Satan in Europe - secularism, hedonism and ofcourse Islam. Hindus should use this opportunity well.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 20 2005, 11:22 AM,0008.htm

RSS Chief KS Sudarshan on Wednesday made a scathing attack on the new Pope accusing him of "religious intolerance" and said such mindset leads to conflicts. He also accused US President George Bush of funding missionaries in India. Recalling the millennium peace summit of 2000 in New York where 1100 representatives from different faiths signed a document that there should be no bloodshed in the name of religions as they were different routes to one God, he said, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger held a press conference shortly thereafter at the Vatican and released a 36 page doctrine 'Dominus Jesus'. "The doctrine objected to anyone trying to bring their religion at par with the Roman Catholic church and described it as crossing limits of tolerance. It said non-Christians cannot get salvation as they don't consider Jesus Christ as the son of God and even non-Catholics would find it difficult to get salvation as they don't consider the Pope as their head", Sudarshan said at a function to mark the second anniversary of devotional television channel Sadhana. "Such mindset that we are superior to others leads to conflict (Sangharsh),", he said. The RSS chief alleged that President Bush was trying to propagate Christianity at Government expense. "Through an executive order, Bush, who is a re-born Christian, gave tax rebate of 80 billion dollars to Christian missionaries in 2002 and set up a special two billion dollar fund for Africa and India, which can be utilised without any question being asked," Sudarshan said. He also alleged that Christian evangelists Pat Robertson and Billy Graham, who were close to Bush, wanted to convert both India and China to Christianity. Alleging that a survey project 'Joshua -I' was carried out between 1991-2001 to identify the requirement of Churches in every village and town of India, he said, "CIA also helped in that project and money is pouring in to separate Dalits from Hindus and divide the majority community".

Posted by: Mudy Apr 20 2005, 09:42 PM

MORONEY: But with natural family planning. Nobody has ever taken a close—I‘ve never heard this program or any other program take a close look at the natural family planning that does work. Mother Teresa in India did widespread natural family planning, very inexpensively. MATTHEWS: You mean thermal? MORONEY: No, well, there was—well, see, the sarcastic response is... MATTHEWS: No, I‘m just asking. MORONEY: ... because there‘s lack of an understanding. I challenge you to do a program sometime on natural family planning. Anyone have any clue about Teresa family planning or this MSGR. JAMES MORONEY, U.S. CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC who is just lying big time.

Posted by: agnivayu Apr 21 2005, 04:50 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Apr 21 2005, 10:12 AM)
MORONEY: But with natural family planning. Nobody has ever taken a close—I‘ve never heard this program or any other program take a close look at the natural family planning that does work. Mother Teresa in India did widespread natural family planning, very inexpensively. MATTHEWS: You mean thermal? MORONEY: No, well, there was—well, see, the sarcastic response is... MATTHEWS: No, I‘m just asking. MORONEY: ... because there‘s lack of an understanding. I challenge you to do a program sometime on natural family planning. Anyone have any clue about Teresa family planning or this MSGR. JAMES MORONEY, U.S. CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC who is just lying big time.
How do we destroy the Teresa gang that's busy converting and creating trouble ? Maybe some controversy can be created regarding the organization. A major scandal of some kind... Also, I hope this new pope is gay, that will divide the catholic church...

Posted by: G.Subramaniam Apr 21 2005, 07:42 PM

Catholic clergy recommend something called rythm method Meaning avoid sex during times when risk of pregnancy is high Pregnancy risk is high from 15-20 days after end of last menstruation So avoid sex these 5 days Obviously this has a fairly high failure rate since it is a crude method but it does work to some extent For comparison, Condoms may give 99% protection, rythm method gives about 85% protection

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 23 2005, 01:27 AM

Posted by: agnivayu Apr 23 2005, 04:42 AM

QUOTE(SSridhar @ Apr 23 2005, 01:57 PM)
Well it's always good to hear that a fascist Hitler Youth Pope likes India. Will Indian Christians be "goose stepping" with this symbol of Human rights ? Personally, I am very proud to see a member of the Master Race as the pope. user posted image

Posted by: Naresh Apr 23 2005, 03:45 PM RIYADH: Saudi Arabia has detained 40 Pakistani Christians for holding prayers at a house in the Muslim kingdom, where practicing any religion other than Islam is illegal, newspapers said on Saturday. A group of men, women and children were attending the service in Riyadh when police raided the house, Al Jazirah newspaper said. It said authorities also found Christian tapes and books. Another Saudi daily, Al Yaum, said the raid took place on Friday while a Pakistani preacher was delivering a sermon. Reuters Will Pope Benedict XVI send his “vehement protest” to the Saudis? How about the othr Christian Nations’ Heads? furious.gif Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Apr 25 2005, 03:52 PM,0,5304127.story?coll=la-home-headlines

THE PATH AHEAD / COLLISION OF FAITHS Defying Tradition # In a mostly Hindu village in India, one priest presses ahead with his mission to draw more people to Christianity. By Paul Watson, Times Staff Writer HINKAL, India — Here on the front lines of competing faiths, Father Joseph D'Mello is a lonely man battling for souls against the myriad beliefs that make up Hinduism. The Catholic priest senses the undercurrent of hostility in this mainly Hindu village with each whiff of raw sewage and rotting trash from the garbage dump next to his small red-and-white church. Monsoon rains pound the corrugated iron roof like a drum. Parishioners D'Mello's 1,500-member congregation are still frightened three years after a Hindu mob invaded the church, attacking people with bricks, rocks and clubs. But D'Mello is defiant. He is causing friction, even with some of his own parishioners, by insisting on celebrating one Sunday Mass in English instead of conducting services only in the local Kannada language. Nationalists are demanding that he speak only Kannada in church, even when announcing social functions such as picnics, he said. D'Mello said that the Mass in English draws more congregants because they feel more comfortable having "their dialogue with God" in English. In his first major speech, Pope Benedict XVI, who as Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger asserted the supremacy of Catholicism and branded other religions "deficient," said he hoped to reach out to other faiths. Although many liberals applauded the overture, the 58-year-old D'Mello hopes Benedict will enforce Catholic doctrine and not give an inch to extremists in other religions. "The Pope should not be afraid. He should be bold," D'Mello said. "I have faced this trouble throughout my life. I live with it." There is a limit to compromise, D'Mello added. In reaching out to other religions, Catholics cannot lose faith in their own, the priest said. "We have learned from the beginning that there is one God," he added, quoting from the First Commandment: "He said, 'Thou shall not have strange gods before me.' " India has long prided itself on being a secular state, where all faiths are supposed to be equal. But as the nation's economic and military strength has increased, Hindu nationalists have argued that "Hindutva," or Hindu-ness, should be the leading force in Indian culture and politics. Nearly three-quarters of India's 1.1 billion people are Hindus. The country's 140 million Muslims make up the second-largest religious group. Christians make up the country's third major faith, followed by smaller minorities of Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains. The proportion of Christians has remained roughly the same for at least 40 years. But Hindus' share of India's population has declined 3% and the Muslim community has grown by almost the same percentage, feeding some Hindus' fears that they are under threat. Some of India's religious fault lines run through this region in the southern state of Karnataka, where Catholic missionaries have spread the gospel and provided social services such as schools and hospitals, for generations. They made limited inroads in Hinkal. D'Mello says his congregation has grown slightly in recent years, only because Catholics have moved to the parish to find work or housing. Hinkal is a village of several hundred small, cinder-block houses with red tiled roofs in an industrial suburb of Mysore, a city famous for its ancient palaces and fragrant sandalwood. Mysore's bishop bought a small poultry farm here and built Holy Family Church in 1998. D'Mello joined the parish in December 2003, with an assignment from the bishop to solve the language dispute. As the sun sets on Holy Family, wandering hogs snuffle and grunt in the sprawling heap of Hinkal's waste, across a dirt road from the small church's front gate. Thursday was a slow day, as most are for D'Mello. No one came to confess sins, and only 11 members of his congregation attended evening Mass. He could do little charity work because the parish coffers had run too low. D'Mello says it is his calling to build his congregation, to urge Hindus to place their faith in Christ instead of the cows, cobras and other beings they revere. But he can't even hand out "Soldiers of God" comic books — with stories of the rich man and Lazarus, the pig that attacked and "A Good Cure for the Lazy" — to non-Christian children without fear of sparking a riot. In 2002, a mob of about 40 Hindu extremists, who accused the church of aggressively converting Hindu villagers, attacked Holy Family with bricks, rocks and clubs while 50 children were singing hymns and learning about the Bible in catechism class. At least six people suffered broken bones, severe bruises and other injuries. A court injunction was issued prohibiting Hindu protesters from returning to the church, but its congregation doesn't feel safe. "It's like fire inside the ash," said Mathew Benjamin Suresh, who was assaulted as he tried to shield his wife and two sons. "Any moment anything can flare up, not just against this church, but against the Christian community." Hindu extremists frequently target Christians, and some of the country's 18 million Catholics have tried to maintain peace by stressing shared values over divisive theology. But even Pope John Paul II, who reached out to other religions, told Catholics they must not compromise on the central tenets of their faith. During a visit to New Delhi in 1999, John Paul issued a kind of pastoral guidebook in which he wrote that Christians had a duty "to proclaim without failing Jesus Christ, who is 'the way and the truth and the life.' " To Hindu fundamentalists, John Paul's exhortation sounded like a new attack against India's majority faith. When Benedict was chosen, the head of India's militant Hindu-nationalist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh said the new pontiff was intolerant because he preached a doctrine that "objected to anyone trying to bring their religion at par with the Roman Catholic church." "Such a mind-set … leads to conflict," RSS chief Kuppahalli Sitaramayya Sudarshan was quoted as saying by the state-run Press Trust of India. For more than a century, social services have been Catholic priests' best calling cards, but Hindu nationalists have accused Catholics of using charity work to proselytize. D'Mello says he will never be afraid to speak what he believes to be God's truth, no matter the threats. "Why are you worried about them?" the priest said. "You worry about your soul." * (BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX) Coexistence Catholics make up a small percentage of India's 1.1 billion population. * Religious breakdown in India: Hindu: 74% Muslim: 12% Other Christian: 4% Catholic: 2% Sikh: 2% All other: 5% Not religious: 1% * Catholic population: 1970: 8,432,713 (1.52%) 2005: 18,250,000 (1.66%) *Source: World Christian Database. Graphics reporting by Tom Reinken

Posted by: G.Subramaniam Apr 25 2005, 07:51 PM

A reminder to all I run a very cost effective anti-missionary project in Dalit villages in tamil nadu Anyone interested, please contact me privately Several members on this forum already donate to this project G.S

Posted by: acharya Apr 25 2005, 08:39 PM 4. The preservation of the Christian faith among the Hindus will be precarious and its propagation uncertain as long as there is not a native clergy properly trained for priestly duties, not only to be of assistance to foreign priests, but also to be in rightful charge of the administration of the Christian Church in their cities. Tradition tells us that Frances Xavier maintained this same opinion. They say that he used to assert that the Christian cause in India could never have firm roots without the continuing dedication of a pious and zealous clergy native to India. It is clearly evident that he had a keen understanding of the issue. Certainly the work of the missionaries coming from Europe is beset with many obstacles. Most especially, indeed, is their unfamiliarity with the vernacular, which is very difficult to learn. There is also the remoteness of institutions and customs which remain unfamiliar even after a long period of time. Hence, the European clergy is forced to live there as in a strange land. Since a foreign clergy, therefore, has difficulty in winning the hearts of the people, it is plain that the work of a native clergy would be far more fruitful. From experience, they know the nature and customs of their people; they know when to speak and when to keep silent. In fine, they live among Hindus as Hindus without causing any suspicion and it is, indeed, difficult to say how important this is especially in times of crisis.

Posted by: k.ram Apr 26 2005, 02:32 AM

Church Planting in India


Posted by: Solomon Apr 26 2005, 03:14 AM

CHRISTIANITY AND ITS RESEARCH TRUTHS. All friends think that the research articles are influenced by Syncretism. The truth is their claims are by frauds and actual position of Bible research is as follows: Professor John Hick, sums up the current position of Theological research as follows: The weight and extent of the strain under which Christian Belief has come can be indicated by listing aspects of Traditional Theology which are, which are in the opinion of many Theologians today [including myself], either untenable ot open to Serious Doubts. 1. There are divinely revealed truths [such as the doctrines of Trinity or the two natures of Christ] 2. 2.God Created the physical Universe out of nothing “n’ years ago. 3. Man was created originally brought into the existence as a finitely perfect being, but rebelled against God, and the human condition has ever since been that of creatures who have fallen from grace. 4. Christ come to rescue man from his fallen plight, buying man’ [or some men’s] restoration to grace by his death on the cross. 5. Jesus was born of a Virgin mother, without human Patenity. 6. He performed miracles in which the regularities of the natural order were suspended by Divine Power. 7. His Dead Body rose from the Grave and Returned to Earthy Life. 8. All men must respond to God through Jesus Christ in order to be saved. 9. AT Death a person’s relationship to God is irrevocably fixed. 10. There are two human destinies, traditionally referred to under the symbols of Heaven and Hell. “God and the Universe of Faiths”- John Hick, Professor of Philosophy of Religion, Claremont Graduate School. California Published by Macmillan 1998. Solomon

Posted by: agnivayu Apr 26 2005, 07:45 AM

QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Apr 26 2005, 04:22 AM),0,5304127.story?coll=la-home-headlines
* (BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX) Coexistence Catholics make up a small percentage of India's 1.1 billion population. * Religious breakdown in India: Hindu: 74% Muslim: 12% Other Christian: 4% Catholic: 2% Sikh: 2% All other: 5% Not religious: 1% * Catholic population: 1970: 8,432,713 (1.52%) 2005: 18,250,000 (1.66%) *Source: World Christian Database. Graphics reporting by Tom Reinken
So according to the Christian encylopedia, India is only 74% Hindu. By that logic, Europe must be 5% Christian, because only 5% attend churches anymore, the rest are atheist or new age types. Notice how the racist LA times only labels Hindus as fundamentalists. So, a Hindu who defends his religion in HIS NATIVE LAND is a fundamentalist, but a agent of the pope who wages Jesus Jihad in a foreign land is just a normal guy preaching his religion. Xtian conversion is good, provided the newly minted converts head to White lands, and hang around Whites, and marry their daughters. Let's see how tolerant these white evangelists are ... (many of them redneck racists from the deep south)

Posted by: Mudy Apr 26 2005, 08:58 PM,~Church~denies~burial~rites~to~AIDS-hit! thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif

KOTTAYAM: The disease kills and the stigma follows beyond death. AIDS patients in Kerala, who live in fear of being discovered and ostracised, are being turned back even after death by the Church. For, they are being refused burial rites or space in the cemetery by God's own men. ..................
"Local churches in Kerala are denying customary burial to AIDS victims," said Sister Dolores, founder of the Cancer and AIDS Shelter Society (CASS). "In Kottayam itself, where there has been a spurt of AIDS cases in the last three years, [COLOR=red]once the church comes to know AIDS is the cause of death, the body is not allowed into the cemetery," she told TOI. "Priests don't visit my house for customary prayers. They visit my neighbours, but they don't come to my house. When my child asks me why, I have no answer," says a 30-year-old woman whose husband died recently of AIDS. She preferred to remain unnamed. Even when they are alive, AIDS patients face social ostracism.

Posted by: sankara Apr 27 2005, 05:03 AM

Xtian conversion is good, provided the newly minted converts head to White lands, and hang around Whites, and marry their daughters. Let's see how tolerant these white evangelists are ... (many of them redneck racists from the deep south)
How right you are! In recent years, many Indian christians in the US are starting/ or considering starting their own churches. Their reason is that there is cultural difference in the way the whites worship and the way Indian christians worship. While this is a perfectly legitimate explanation, and in my opinion a diplomatic one, the truth is that many Indian christians face discrimination and social segregation by the white congregation in churches in small, predominantly white towns in the midwest or south. The white parishioners don't talk or mingle with the Indian member, or socialize with them during church celebrations, after-service coffee gatherings, or during church fairs and outings. The Indian christians are made to feel like social outcasts, at most tolerated but never accepted. In the sunday-school bible classes, the Indian christian kids are ignored by the white kids, and unable to make friends with the white kids. This is the reason why many Indian christians are more comfortable starting their own churches and being among their own kind, or worshipping with the blacks. It is in a way reminiscent of the south before the civil rights movement, when the blacks had their own churches and worship places, and could not enter the white churches. The difference now is that Indian christians can enter the white churches, but are treated by the whites in such a way that they prefer to leave the church voluntarily and go pray somewhere else. In inter-racial marriages among devout christians, most Indian christians end up marrying the blacks; the white devout christian would rarely consider an Indian christian as an eligible partner.

Posted by: rajesh_g Apr 27 2005, 06:24 PM

The Disappearing Wall Published: April 26, 2005 To the dismay of many mainstream religious leaders, the Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, participated in a weekend telecast organized by conservative Christian groups to smear Democrats as enemies of "people of faith." Besides listening to Senator Frist's videotaped speech, viewers heard a speaker call the Supreme Court a despotic oligarchy. Meanwhile, the House majority leader, Tom DeLay, has threatened the judiciary for not following the regressive social agenda he shares with the far-right fundamentalists controlling his party. Apart from confirming an unwholesome disrespect for traditional American values like checks and balances, the assault on judges is part of a wide-ranging and successful Republican campaign to breach the wall between church and state to advance a particular brand of religion. No theoretical exercise, the program is having a corrosive effect on policymaking and the lives of Americans. The centerpiece is President Bush's so-called faith-based initiative, which disregards decades of First Amendment law and civil rights protections. Mr. Bush promised that federal money would not be used to support religious activities directly, but it is. The program has channeled billions of taxpayers' dollars to churches and other religion-based providers of social services under legally questionable rules that allow plenty of room for proselytizing and imposing religious tests on hiring. The initiative even provides taxpayers' money to build and renovate houses of worship that are also used to offer social services. Offices in the White House and federal departments pump public money to religious groups, but provide scant oversight or accountability to make sure that the money is spent on real services, not preaching. Indeed, Mr. Bush's goal is to finance programs that are explicitly religious. A recent want ad posted by a taxpayer-financed vocational program of the Firm Foundation for inmates in a Pennsylvania jail stipulated that a job seeker must be "a believer in Christ and Christian Life today" and that the workday "will start with a short prayer." A major portion of inmates' time is spent on religious lectures and prayer, according to a lawsuit filed by two civil liberties groups. The Bush administration and Congress have turned over issues bearing on women's reproductive rights to far-right religious groups opposed not just to abortion, but to expanded stem-cell research, effective birth control and AIDS prevention programs. The Food and Drug Administration continues to dawdle over approving over-the-counter access to emergency contraception for fear of inflaming members of the religious right who deem any interference with the implantation of a fertilized egg to be an abortion. This foot-dragging may be good politics from one narrow view, but it harms women and drives up the nation's abortion rate. The result of this open espousal of one religious view is a censorious climate in which a growing number of pharmacists feel free to claim moral grounds for refusing to dispense emergency contraception and even birth control pills prescribed by a doctor. Public schools shy away from teaching about evolution, and science museums reject scientifically sound documentaries that may offend Christian fundamentalists. Public television stations were afraid to run a children's program in which a cartoon bunny met a lesbian couple. In a recent Op-Ed article in The Times, John Danforth, the former Republican senator and U.N. ambassador who is also a minister, said his party was becoming a political arm of the religious right. He called it a formula for divisiveness that ultimately threatened the party's future. With the nation lurching toward the government sponsorship of religion, and the Senate nearing a showdown over Mr. Bush's egregious judicial nominees, it is a warning well worth heeding.

Posted by: bgravi Apr 29 2005, 12:15 PM

From Apr 30th issue of Asian Age...

Indians held for conversion minors - By Sudeshna Sarkar, Kathmandu, April 29: An Indian couple has been arrested in southern Nepal on the suspicion they were forcibly converting minors to Christianity. Forcible conversions to Christianity, Islam and any other non-Hindu religion is a punishable offence in Nepal, the only Hindu kingdom in the world. Babu Verghese, an Indian citizen, and his wife Savitri were running a school for orphans in Birgunj city in southern Nepal, the commercial capital of the kingdom. The district administrative authorities received complaints that the couple had been converting their students, the state-run Rising Nepal daily reported Friday. Nearly 80 orphans were said to be studying at the Grace English Boarding School and most had been converted the daily said. The Vergheses have been arrested while police are investigating the complaints, it said. (IANS)

Posted by: Sunder Apr 29 2005, 12:48 PM Colombo, Apr. 29 (FIDES/ - Christians in Sri Lanka, including the local Catholic community are seriously concerned that parliament may approve an anti-conversion bill, the Fides news service reports. If approved, the bill would cause a radical change of attitude and relations between the different religious communities in Sri Lanka, and it would violate religious freedom and human rights, a local Church source told Fides. Paradoxically, the Fides source said, the bill-- which is to be discussed and voted in the next few days-- is being passed off as a measure to protect religious freedom, when its effects are the complete opposite. The bill outlaws any personal change of religion under circumstances which can be considered immoral or illegal. Envisaged punishment includes a heavy fine, and up to seven years in prison. It falls to a magistrate to judge whether a person's decision to change religion was the result of trickery and "proselytizing" and is therefore illegal. Church leaders in Sri Lanka are particularly concerned about the interpretation of "proselytizing" as contained in the legislation, because some critics of the Christian presence in the country claim that social and charitable work is a form of "proselytizing." The bill was introduced by nine Buddhist monks who are members of parliament and of a fundamentalist religious party, Jathika Hela Urumaya. A similar bill was introduced last year, but ruled unconstitutional by the country's highest court. A slightly amended form of the bill is now under discussion.

Posted by: Mudy May 1 2005, 02:00 PM

567 Christians converted in 'homecoming' rite Ashutosh Mishra / Bhubneshwar In a significant development, 567 Christians returned to the Hindu fold in a "homecoming" ceremony organised by the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP) at Bijepur in western Orissa's Bargarh district on Sunday. People from seven nearby villages attended the ceremony held in the premises of a local school. Sources said a yajna was held to mark the occasion and new clothes were distributed among the people who re-embraced Hinduism. Most of them belong to the scheduled caste community. VHP activists of the area had been in touch with these families for sometime.

Posted by: agnivayu May 1 2005, 03:45 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ May 2 2005, 02:30 AM)
567 Christians converted in 'homecoming' rite Ashutosh Mishra / Bhubneshwar In a significant development, 567 Christians returned to the Hindu fold in a "homecoming" ceremony organised by the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP) at Bijepur in western Orissa's Bargarh district on Sunday. People from seven nearby villages attended the ceremony held in the premises of a local school. Sources said a yajna was held to mark the occasion and new clothes were distributed among the people who re-embraced Hinduism. Most of them belong to the scheduled caste community. VHP activists of the area had been in touch with these families for sometime.
That's excellent news. We need to keep battling back, unless we wan't to end up like the PHillipines or Latin America.

Posted by: k.ram May 1 2005, 05:05 PM

Did the Hindus Help Write the Bible and Give the Ancient Mexicans Their Religious Traditions? .............. More than twenty years ago, when I first started investigating these matters, some Fundamentalist Christians scolded me: "What can you gain by proving that all the religions and cultures of the world copied their religious traditions from the Hindus?" I answered, "Well, you're always saying that someone should go to India and save the Hindus' poor lost souls. O.K, you win. I'm doing it.

Posted by: k.ram May 2 2005, 10:24 AM

Businessman charged for 'Employment Evangelism' April 15,2005 Christian businessman Vidya Sagaran of Kerala state was charged by an Indian Court with attempted forced conversion. Apparently he was forcing his employees to convert to keep their employment. Section 153A of the Indian Penal Code prohibits fraudulent conversions. India, a secular nation is a safe home to various religions. People are worried about rising evangelical fundamentalism which could break the social fabric.

Posted by: agnivayu May 4 2005, 05:23 AM

QUOTE(k.ram @ May 2 2005, 10:54 PM)
Businessman charged for 'Employment Evangelism' April 15,2005 Christian businessman Vidya Sagaran of Kerala state was charged by an Indian Court with attempted forced conversion. Apparently he was forcing his employees to convert to keep their employment. Section 153A of the Indian Penal Code prohibits fraudulent conversions. India, a secular nation is a safe home to various religions. People are worried about rising evangelical fundamentalism which could break the social fabric.
Christians are beautiful tolerant people. Hindus should return them the favor.

Posted by: P_Agarwal May 4 2005, 11:55 AM

At least 576 Christians from 122 families in seven Orissa villages on May 1, 05 "re-embraced" Hinduism. Sonia wants 'Rome-raj' & Mahatma Gandhi wanted 'Ram-raj'. Mahatma Gandhi was against conversion and welcomed "re-embraced" of repentant in Hinduism. Then why Sonia prefers conversion of Hindus through Glady Staines, Smt. Benny Hinn, Alwa & others? At the time of 'Dandi March' Sonia said Congress would follow Mahatma Gandhi’s principles. This is VHP-sponsored ceremony at Bijepur village in the district of Bargarh, a state VHP leader said. The persons had filed affidavits before a local magistrate expressing their desire of homecoming prior to the religious function, local head of VHP Satyanarayan Panda told - 19 Apr 2005, published that Hindu and Muslim extremists were creating many problems. This shows that Muslims are anger on the activities of Christian Missionaries. Vishal ! Arora, Hungary’s BosNewsLife New Delhi Bureau Chief sent news report, “Hindu militants said Monday, April 25, they "re-converted" 102 Tribal Christians from 45”, Italy gives news title: “Anti-conversion campaign by Hindu fundamentalists“ They never publish ‘Christian fundamentalist or Christian Militants’. When they publish news related to 3 days mourn in India on death of Pope then they publish ‘Hindu India’. Here in India Ram Vilas Paswan said on electronic channel that ‘Hindustan’ word is communal. ‘The Hindu’ or ‘The Hindustan Times’ did not write a single word against this. Opposite to this ‘Hindustan Times’ is the most anti-Hindu newspaper of the world. “If a person through fear, compulsion, starvation, or for material gain or consideration goes over to another faith, it is a misnomer to call it conversion Most cases of conversion … hav! e been to my mind false coin … I would therefore unhesitatingly re-admit to the Hindu fold all such repentant without much ado … If a man comes back to the original branch he deserves to be welcomed … in so far as he may deem to have erred, he has sufficiently purged himself of it when he repents his error and retraces his steps.” Mahatma Gandhi (Collected Works: Vol. 66, pp. 163-164) “If I had the power and could legislate, I should stop all proselytizing … In Hindu households the advent of a missionary has meant the disruption of the family coming in the wake of change of dress, manners, language, food and drink …Mahatma Gandhi (November 5, 1935) Sonia symbolizes Christian power in India Such was the Maino family's devotion to their Church and their religion that it insisted not only on her continuing to be a Christian but also on her husband -- to embrace the faith.-- both Rajiv and Sonia listed themselves ! as Christians. “Mera juta hai japani, yah patllon Englistani, sar pe lal topi rusi, fir bhi dil hai Hindustani” Sonia wears Sari but her ‘Dil’ is Italian. Never mind that Sonia smears her forehead with a "Tilak" and also wears a Sari. She is no more Hindu than the other Christian Missionaries in India who are posing as "Swamis." Christians are busy changing their tactics and are assuming the posture of "Secularism," as an indigenous Indian faith (Christianity) and not an alien faith. Christianity is against Secularism In his latest book, "The Cube and the Cathedral: Europe, America, and Politics Without God," Catholic theologian and social critic George Weigel, biographer of John Paul II, decried the West's sins of secularism. He argues a return to Christian roots will cure U.S. and European ills. He argues that Europe's "demographic suicide" is a Suicide by Secularism and will cause its welfare states to buckle and is cre! ating a "vacuum into which Islamic immigrants are flowing." Since 1970 the 20 million legal Islamic immigrants equal the combined populations of Ireland, Denmark and Belgium. Think: Why ‘Bharatratn’ to Mother Teresa, ‘Padmashree’ to Glady Staines, Govt.- welcome to fraud Benny Hinn and Jail to Kanchi Mutt Seer? Why three days mourn on the death of Pope II? Who forced Jayalalitha to draw back anti-conversion bill? Why protests by Christian against Anti-Conversion bill of Rajasthan and Gujarat? Hindus are still tolerant though under current is flowing to know the continuous decrease of Hindus and increase of Christians & Muslims. Why Osama Bin Laden threatens Christian missionaries for not conversion of Muslims otherwise their throat would be cut? "People who have no love for this country are behind the conspiracy to demoralize the forces. I will not allow this country to be looted. I have only one country. Others may have other! countries", George Fernades said in an apparent reference to the Congress president's foreign origin. Watan Walo Watan Na Bech Dena Ke Dharti Yeh Gagan Na Bech Dena Shaheedon Ne Jaan Di Hain Watan Ke Vaaste Shaheedon Ke Kafan Na Bech Dena Doston Saathiyon Hum Chale De Chale Apna Dil Apni Jaan Taake Jeeta Rahe Apna Hindustan Christian Congress governments of North-East India are openly telling the Non-Christians that "this is a Christian State and that Non-Christians have no business or domicile here. Either they get converted or they will be eliminated or kicked out." Christians are using immoral means to convert Hindus into Christianity. Sari wearing nuns enter poor villages with food, clothing and money. The rest is history. People should fight whichever way possible against to counter it. Bangladeshi infiltration for conversion in to Christianity But more than this, the findings have also revealed that! illegal Muslim migrants from Bangladesh too have been increasingly reporting as Christians "guided by survival strategy and adverse economic conditions." Obviously, the Christian leaders are using militancy to intimidate the illegal migrants, particularly in the Christian -dominated hilly regions, to convert them to Christianity. They too, like the Hindus, are being lured with all kinds of economic benefits to get converted. Check Demographic slide However, against the national growth rate of 22.6 per cent, Nagaland reported as high as 69.2 per cent growth, followed intriguingly enough, by Gujarat with 56.3 per cent growth of Christian population, by Orissa 34.8 per cent, Meghalaya 42.1 per cent, Chhattisgarh 32.5 per cent, West Bengal 34.3 per cent, Punjab 30 per cent and Mizoram 30.7 per cent. However, Kerala, which accounted for the largest share of Christians in the country, reg! istered only 7.8 per cent growth while Andhra Pradesh reported minus growt! h (-2.8), the findings said. So Christian Rajshekhar became CM there to increase the figuge. Tripura for example, during 1991-2001, the Hindu population grew by 15 per cent while the Christian population grew by 121 per cent. Trilochan Singh of Minority Commission said that there was a tremendous increase of Christian population in Northeast states. In fact, conversion is taking place on a mass-scale in large parts of the Northeast where poor, backward tribal fall easy prey to the lure of money and other inducements to embrace Christianity. But if they don't, the job is taken over by the militant groups, most of which are operating in the region only to convert people to Christianity under the guise of insurgent outfits. There are a couple of such outfits operate! While nobody should have any objection to such a development in a secular country, what every secularist must object to is the fact that, while the Muslim population is rising alarmingly due to il! legal influx from Bangladesh, the Christian population is rising due to conversion, both forced and induced, of mostly the gullible Hindus who do not have any means to defend themselves. It is high time all the States including Assam, Arunachal Pradesh, Manipur and Tripura passed anti-conversion laws with stringent penal provisions to at least partially check this demographic slide without any further delay.

Posted by: rajesh_g May 5 2005, 12:35 AM

Gladys Staines and the Padma Shri Vishal V Sharma In the duel between the “communal” Sangh Parivar and the “Maha-secular” Congress Parivar, the conferring of the Padma Shri - a prestigious Indian civilian honour - on Gladys, the widow of Graham Staines, raises interesting political as well as legal questions. Was Gladys not doing the good work for over two decades before her husband Graham was killed? Why were the Staines noticed only after the tragic events unfolded? Is it an attempted political punch by the “secularists” on the “communalists”, by virtue of which the secularists would like the world to believe that somehow the latter was responsible for Graham's killing? Conferring the award on his widow after so many years may then be like saying, “everyone whom you murder, we will beatify.” The new breed of the “secular fundamentalists” are experts in creating a non-existent Sangh Parivar bogeyman, and then taking pride and publicity in shooting it down. Gladys has had to bear a tragedy of such magnitude that it sends shivers down one's spine. Her husband and her two little sons were burnt alive in a crazy tribal attack. The main accused in the crime has been sentenced to death. Both Gladys and Graham had been doing great social work, but they were also missionaries. Hence a question arises, are missionaries not antithetical to Indian secularism? I spoke with an IAS officer of the Orissa cadre who has served in a district adjoining the Staines' tribal Mayurbhanj district. He was full of praise for Gladys, who along with Graham served the poor, and the lepers. He told me that Gladys is a very warm and composed person, with a lion's will. He had once gone to Gladys' place and cleaned a leper's sores. On returning home, he bathed twice. The experience had frightened him. The IAS officer then asked me, “Vishal would you ever touch a leper, and clean his oozing sores?” I could not answer. She gives dignity to the lepers, when the entire society is loaded against them. She gives a voice to the tribals, when no one hears them. Her organization has put up wonderful health and educational facilities for the tribals. However, the question remains, why do missionaries involved in such a wonderful service to humanity convert people? Can the service not be completely selfless to such an extent that the person being treated is encouraged to follow his own religion rather than change to some other? Why does the Christian church not accept, “Sarva dharma sama bhava” (All religions are equal)? In Israel, the evangelical and proselytizing groups have entered into an understanding with the Israeli government that they would not carry out any religious conversions in the Holy land. Why can we not have a similar arrangement in India? A lot of wonderful Christian schools and colleges impart great education. Some Jesuit principals are rare people who have dedicated their lives to the field of education. Even the author has learnt his 3Rs through the love and attention of Jesuits. However, there is a sad discrimination on the grounds of religion. A person belonging to the Christian faith is given priority in admissions over others. They say the Christian educational institutions come under the category of minority educational institutions, and hence fifty percent of the seats are reserved for Christians. But aren't religion-based reservations antithetical to India's secular constitution? In Mayurbhanj, Gladys' organization organizes weekly mass for the community. People are encouraged to voluntarily come with a fistful of grains as a weekly contribution for the services being provided. But there are so many other missionary organizations that are being funded by external sources. Obviously as there are more prosperous Christian countries in the world, Christian organizations get the most funds, then come the Islamic ones, and the last are the Hindu organizations, even though Hindus outnumber Christians and Muslims in India. Can there not be a system wherein all the funds coming into India to religious organizations be pooled together and given to all religions? India has excellent bilateral relations with Australia, we are part of the commonwealth, and Australia has a great cricket team. But has Australia ever honoured an Indian citizen with an Australian civilian honour? Are we not too eager to confer Indian civilian honours on people holding foreign passports, overlooking hundreds of Indians who would qualify for the same? The Swaminarayan organization is doing great social work. ISKCON and the Akshaya Patra organizations are distributing free food daily to thousands of poor school children all over the country, irrespective of their caste, creed or religion. They do not discriminate on religion, nor convert any child into Hinduism. The Vanvasi Kalyan Ashram is doing an equally good work in the service of the tribals, it is also serving the lepers and cleaning their sores. But has the “secular” government ever honoured anyone from this organization? The media too does not give it adequate coverage. But when it comes to non-Hindu organizations, the “secular" criterion is overlooked. It is sad that years of hardline Nehruvian secularism practiced by the Congress party has brought about a weird situation in India, wherein Hindu organizations are labelled as anti-secular and non-Hindu organizations as secular. Even after living in India for over twenty years has Gladys taken up Indian citizenship? If she still retains her Australian passport, it raises doubts on her attachment and belonging to India. My heart asks me not to judge people serving humanity with the scale of nationality, but the fact remains that such a scale is present and hence it becomes important that the issue be addressed. India does not permit foreign passport holders to carry out missionary activities in India. Such an activity is, thus, an infringement of the visa rules. Does Gladys Staines and many like her not come under such a requirement? The government must come good on these questions. Sure, Gladys must be honoured for her work, but so also must other similar organizations that do not get adequate media coverage, or are labelled as being “Hindu”. The government must not only speak of secularism, but also act on it. It should take a strong stance on the issue of religious conversions. It cannot turn a blind eye to conversions being carried out under the noble activity of community service and genuine social work.

Posted by: k.ram May 5 2005, 10:58 AM


Where: Penuiel Prayer Hall, Nidubrolu, Guntur, AP When: 17,18,19th May 2005 Expected conversions: atleast 5000 Primary mode of conversion: Healing Ceremony Who is doing: Pastor G.Balasundaram

Posted by: agnivayu May 5 2005, 05:26 PM

QUOTE(k.ram @ May 5 2005, 11:28 PM)
Where: Penuiel Prayer Hall, Nidubrolu, Guntur, AP When: 17,18,19th May 2005 Expected conversions: atleast 5000 Primary mode of conversion: Healing Ceremony Who is doing: Pastor G.Balasundaram
Perhaps some Hindu Nationalists can "educate" the pastor about what happens when you mess with Hindus.

Posted by: acharya May 9 2005, 03:18 PM

Christian Conference Weighs Challenges By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer Mon May 9, 2:50 PM ET ATHENS, Greece - Christian leaders, theologians and religious activists from around the world gathered Monday for a meeting to assess some of the most serious challenges for the faith, such as growing rifts between churches and African congregations ravaged by AIDS. The last time the World Council of Churches staged such a conference was in Brazil nine years ago, when the agenda was heavy with issues about preserving cultural identity and Christian missionary expansion in the former East Bloc. Now — in one of the ancient sites of Christianity — the planned discussions highlight some new concerns, including growing rifts among Christians over issues such as same-sex unions, the role of gay pastors and women's contributions to worship. Also high on the list: ways to control AIDS and HIV in Africa and promoting interfaith dialogue with mainstream Muslims to offset the influence of Islamic extremists. "This conference has the feeling of a journey, not an arrival," said the Rev. Ruth Bottoms, a Baptist minister from Britain who is overseeing the weeklong series of workshops and speeches that officially opens Tuesday. "We don't want to hide our differences." The conference is expected to draw more than 500 participants representing nearly every corner of Christianity from evangelical movements to mainline Protestant groups to Orthodox and Roman Catholic envoys. Some leaders, such as the late Pope John Paul II, made historic overtures to Orthodox churches to end a nearly 1,000-year estrangement over disputes centering on papal authority and, in recent years, the Vatican's reach in traditional Orthodox lands. Some Protestant churches, meanwhile, have moved toward consolidation to counter shrinking congregations and resources. But the conference may spend much of its energy on political and health problems outside doctrine. Last month, the World Evangelical Alliance presented the U.N. Commission on Human Rights with an appeal claiming more than 200 million Christians worldwide are being denied religious liberty. The document listed more than a dozen countries, including China and several nations in Africa and central Asia. Members of the alliance, which represents conservative Protestant denominations, are expected at the conference, which is being held at a seaside venue about 18 miles northeast of Athens. Also participating are top-level delegates from the Vatican, whose anti-condom stance may put it at odds with other religious leaders. AIDS and HIV issues have become priorities for the WCC, a Geneva-based group with more than 350 member Christian churches. The Vatican is not a full member, but collaborates on many WCC panels and initiatives. "AIDS and HIV is a major human tragedy," said Alexander Belopopsky, a WCC spokesman. The WCC also serves as one of the top forums for inter-religious dialogue and other ecumenical efforts. But the conference is not expected to bring any landmark shifts. Its chief goal, according to organizers, is to advance discussions on ways to reach greater common ground. "This conference brings together the widest possible constituency," Bottoms said. Other topics that could be raised at the conference include whether new Pope Benedict XVI will seek even more substantial contacts with other Christian churches, and ways to energize mainstream churches in the West facing shrinking congregations and competition from non-denominational movements. In central Athens, about 500 supporters of a hard-line Orthodox movement staged a protest to denounce the conference and other initiatives, such as Greek government plans to build Athens' first mosque in more than 170 years. The Greek Orthodox Movement for Salvation saw the WCC gathering as an affront to Orthodoxy's role as one of the most visible links to early Christian worship. Banners read: "No to the pan-religious heretical congress" and "The Church is Orthodox: Every other church and religion are machinations of the devil."

Posted by: k.ram May 10 2005, 08:39 AM

Karnataka : Villagers revolt to 'missionary menace' Wednesday May 04, 2005 Are missionaries breaking the Hindu patience threshold? Are Hindus trying to take law into their hands because Government fails to protect them. The answer seems to be 'yes'. Locals of Mangalwarapete village near the Mysore district in Karnataka state reacted violently by attacking Pastor Paulraj Raju of Harvest India church. This is a very peaceful village never in the news for any reason. The church established by American missionaries has been trying to create civil unrest by spreading hatred against Hindus as worshippers of Satan. The entire village revolted and ransacked the church. The missionary agencies are carrying our their nefarious activities from a friendly congress State and Federal Governments. Congress party is headed by Italian born Sonia Gandhi who is a staunch Roman Catholic.

Posted by: rajesh_g May 12 2005, 01:15 PM

Church upset over HLL's Rin, Hindustan Times campaigns agencyfaqs! NEW DELHI, May 12 The Catholic Bishop's Conference of India, the apex body of all catholic churches in the country, has expressed its displeasure at Hindustan Lever's latest TVC on detergent brand Rin, and Hindustan Times' recent campaign plugging its new looks. While the Rin commercial featured cinestar Amitabh Bachchan as a principal of a Catholic missionary school, Hindustan Times borrowed a quotation: 'Let there be light' from the Old Testament of the Bible. Senior members of the Catholic Bishop's Conference of India (CBCI) are upset because the adverts have used Christian images/texts for commercial purposes. The Rin controversy is now a month-old. It had started with the Catholic Secular Forum (CSF), a Mumbai-based group, protesting against the Rin Advanced ad which showed a Jesuit school principal (Bachchan) in a not-so-white cassock asking a student how he keeps his clothes clean. The CSF had complained to the Advertising Standards Council of India (ASCI) and Hindustan Lever alleging that the advert trivialised what was essentially a sacred and personal issue. Consequently, Hindustan Lever approached the Archbishop of Mumbai's office, where the advert was cleared. The Archbishop office reportedly stated that it did not find anything objectionable about the ad, and it did not hurt the Christian sentiment. HLL maintained that Rin needed to use a figure traditionally dressed in white to effectively communicate a brand proposition of superlative whiteness. That was the reason why a school principal was used as a protagonist, it explained. Apparently, the story hasn't ended here. Babu Joseph, the spokesperson of the Catholic Bishop's Conference of India (CBCI), told agencyfaqs! that the issue is far from being closed. “The CBCI will be contacting the Archbishop of Mumbai's office shortly and will re-examine the matter. If the ad is found offensive, we will appeal to HLL for stopping the campaign. As for Hindustan Times using a text from the Bible, we are concerned over such usage of religious texts for commercial reasons. Let the sacred be sacred. Such usages are avoidable,” Joseph added. CBCI, he continued, is against the commercial usage of deities/symbols/texts of all religions, and not Christianity alone. He referred to a recent example of how the association had lodged protests over a Goa tourism advert featuring a skimpily clad woman against the backdrop of a church. “Such ads are in bad taste. In the Indian socio-cultural milieu, such disrespect to any faith is irresponsible.” Hindustan Times' vice-president Anand Bharadwaj said the 'Let there be light' phrase was used to position the brand as a source of stimulating content. “The phrase was the creative rendition of how we throw light at issues and our competitors don't. It may have been sourced from the Bible but it is a common enough phrase. Plus, it is very appropriate for the brand positioning of Hindustan Times.” While the Indian Christian community's problems with adverts are relatively new and far between, the advertising community and the church are having too many run-ins internationally. A poster campaign in the UK advertising the morning-after birth-control pill asked “Immaculate Contraception?” – obviously punning on the Roman Catholic belief of Immaculate Conception. Another one – again in the UK – a poster for the popular TV show 'Shameless' echoed the scene of Leonardo da Vinci’s Renaissance painting 'The Last Supper'. The show is set on a tough Manchester housing estate. The Advertising Standards Agency, UK's appellate authority on advertising, received 264 complaints from people who argued that the advert mocked Christianity. In France, fashion house Girbaud too was involved in a controversy over the depiction of 'The Last Supper'. One more advert which caused an outrage was the TVC on Mr Kipling’s Mince Pies. It showed a woman called Mary giving birth in what seemed to be a modern hospital – but was in fact a church. Are these signs of irreverent times? © 2005 agencyfaqs!

Posted by: rajesh_g May 12 2005, 02:11 PM

Hmmm.. I think India should express concern at this blatant attempt to curtail a mans fundamental right to pick his own name.. ohmy.gif

Jesus Christ battling for his name in US Thursday, 12 May , 2005, 15:46 Washington: Jesus Christ is having trouble convincing US courts to let him keep his name. It's not the Messiah who is facing this problem, of course, but an American small business owner who, some 15 years ago, adopted the name of the Christian God's son. The man, born Peter Robert Phillips Jr., started his legal battle in 2003 when authorities in West Virginia refused to put his godly name on the property he bought in the southern state. While his new name was on his passport, driver's license and social security card, the local authorities asked him for official proof of his name change. So Jesus went to a district court in Washington, where he currently lives and where he has now been fighting a two-year battle to use his Biblical name. "The judge wrote a lengthy opinion citing scriptures, the Bible and so on, to show that taking the name of Jesus Christ is blasphemy and therefore by extrapolation will cause violent reaction," Jesus Christ's attorney, Afshin Pishewar, said on Tuesday. The US capital "permits a common law name change at will. You can change your name as long as it's not for a fraudulent purpose," Pishewar said. An appeals court overturned the judge in late April, and a new hearing should take place in the next two months, the attorney said. "We've been remanded for a second coming," he said. "We look forward to the hearing so we can have redemption." Jesus Christ, described by his attorney as a "devout" Christian, adopted the name to "express his respect and love for his religion." But the white haired man in his 50s, who drives a bus for mentally handicapped people, is a "private man" and would not speak with reporters, Pishewar said. "Jesus is not speaking to the press at this time," he said.

Posted by: k.ram May 12 2005, 05:49 PM

CONVERT TO GOD OR CHRISTIANITY? P.N. Benjamin* “If the churches were engaged in conversion spree, the whole of India would have been Christianised,” claimed one Richard Howell of Evangelical Fellowship of India, writing in a Bangalore daily some time ago. I reacted swiftly and sharply in the same paper three days later, wondering whether the guy wasn’t living in the proverbial fool’s paradise. Wasn’t he touchingly naive and provocative? And I prayed: “Father, forgive him, for he knows not what he is talking.” No one can deny that genuine conversions do take place through the influence of one individual on another. In the mid-1970s, a lovely Canadian girl came to Bangalore on a Government of India scholarship to learn Bharata Natyam. (She was staying with the late Dr. Fredrick Mulyil and Mrs. Gladys Mulyil. Dr Mulyil was a Professor at the United Theological College and Mrs. Mulyil, Professor of English Language and Literature at the Central College, Bangalore. I was their neighbour.) Like most of her generation in the West, she was an agnostic. She was U.S. Krishna Rao’s star pupil and made her debut in six months. One day she met Mother Teresa. She fell under her spell. She abandoned dance and donned the robes of a nun. “You are a born artist. How dare you become a nun?”—Krishna Rao raged in vain. She went to Calcutta and later to Mexico where she was working in a slum when I last heard about her. Not even the RSS or the VHP could quarrel with such a conversion. But when a well-organised body financed by foreign money begins to shift a whole herd of people from one caste to another one begins to suspect their motives. Some forty years ago, a brilliant Danish Professor, Dr Kaaj Baggo, in the United Theological College, Bangalore, made history when he said: “Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists should never give up their religion for the Christian Church.” On the other hand the Church should humble itself and find ways of identifying with other groups, taking Christ with them Christ, he said, was not the chairman of the Christian party. If God is the Lord of the universe he will work through every culture and religion. We must give up the crusading spirit of the colonial era and stop singing weird hymns like “Onward Christian soldiers marching as to war”. This will lead to Hindu Christianity or Buddhist Christianity. It may involve the disappearance of the Indian Christian community, but he reminded us “a grain of wheat remains a solitary grain unless it falls to the ground and dies”. Needless to say, the Indian Christians were furious. He left the College, the Church and the mission and took refuge with the Danish Foreign Service! He later returned to India as his country’s Ambassador and died in harness in 1988. About a hundred and fifty years ago England was sending out a very important Anglican Church dignitary as Metropolitan of Calcutta. The Brahmin priests got wind of it. They were perturbed. This foreign religion might become a threat to their own traditions. They must investigate. So, they sent one of their men to assess the situation. He wandered around the city till he came to the Bishop’s residence. It was a vast sprawling opulent mansion. As he stood at the gate, the great man walked down the steps, dressed in his magnificent robes. He stepped into the waiting carriage drawn by two horses with a postillion sitting at the rear. The Brahmin returned to his friends. “Have no fears,” he said. “This is not a religion we need to fear.” The priests were relieved for the pomp and splendour of organised Christianity holds no appeal for any genuine seeker after truth. The most precious freedom that Indian Christians enjoy is to hold Jesus Christ as their saviour, as the Son of God, as the “only true divinity”. It is their absolute right to cherish that belief—and if any Hindu outfit or government tries to impeach upon that liberty, then definitely Indian Christians should fight tooth and nail for their religious privileges. They would be justified to speak about Hindu fundamentalism, saffron brigade or Hindutva. But the moment Christianity tries to impose this belief of only one true God—Jesus Christ—on the world, then it is itself impeaching upon the freedom of others. For this belief of the “onlyness of our God” as the real one and all others are false is at the root of many misunderstandings, wars and terrorism. If “all religions are ultimately for the welfare and salvation of humankind”, then conversion is absurd. The Church leaders have miserably failed to take care of the 16 million Dalits converted to Christianity. Besides, indiscriminate conversion has ruined the spirit of Christianity into savagery. Christianity is a path of life paved with suffering and service. Christ said: “If anyone wants to follow me, let him take up the cross and follow me.” The Indian Christian leaders want the government to carry the Cross of Dalit Christians! Christians form just about 2.5 per cent of the Indian population. “Very often they have to depend not so much on their rights as on the goodwill and generosity of the powerful majority Hindu community. Christians in India are dependent in a double sense, on the goodwill of the Hindus and on the Churches in the West whose fellowship sustains them and whose affluence often supports them. Judging from numbers there is hardly any equality in relationship. But Christians in India can play a creative and critical role in the life of our nation. What matters most is the quality of their life as Christians and the courage of their faith.” (Dr Stanley Samartha, Courage for Dialogue). While Christ’s call to conversion is a turning towards God stands what it need not imply is conversion to Christianity. Christianity in today’s India with a renascent Hinduism faces an unprecedented crisis. If it is alive to the situation and sensitive to the signs of time, it has to rethink itself, reorient itself, and rediscover its basic substance and interpret that in terms acceptable to the Indian mind and genius. P.N.BENJAMIN benjaminpn@... Vijay Times, May 12, 2005

Posted by: rajesh_g May 13 2005, 01:14 PM

SRKrishnan post from IC..

The Christian (Syrian) writer Zenob accompanied Gregory (later to be St. Gregory) in his expedition against a Hindu colony in Armenia. While the story and its many details are of historical interest, Hindus will discern the familiar, if monotonous behaviour pattern. Pagan Armenian kings were kind hosts to Hindus for 450 years. After conversion to Christianity, the Armenians finished off all traces of Hindus and Hinduism in Armenia in a matter of days. Gregory was declared a saint for his conversion of Armenians and for the collateral damage inflicted on Hindus. S.R.Krishnan
How were the xtian missionaries treated in India ? I think there is a post in the "melting pot" thread.

Posted by: rajesh_g May 13 2005, 04:44 PM

When faith becomes 'exclusivist' HDS conference looks at religious tolerance in U.S. By Elizabeth Gehrman Special to the Harvard News Office The third McDonald Conference on Evangelical Theology began Friday night (May 6) with a keynote speech by Robert Wuthnow, a Princeton University professor of sociology and the director of the Princeton Center for the Study of Religion. Wuthnow has studied religion from the perspective of many disciplines, including economics, politics, arts, and psychology, and has written many books, including 1991's "Acts of Compassion," for which he received a Pulitzer Prize nomination. Responding to his speech on Friday was Ronald F. Thiemann, a professor of theology and religion and society at Harvard Divinity School. Although Wuthnow's talk was titled "Evangelicals and the Challenge of Religious Diversity," he actually addressed the topic more broadly, examining the conflicted relationship Americans in general - and evangelicals in particular - have regarding the tension between their own views as Christians and their tolerance for increasingly visible faiths such as Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism. His primary example of such ambivalence came from the nation's most visible evangelical, President Bush. Wuthnow recalled that in his televised address after the attacks of 9/11, Bush spoke directly to the Muslims in the audience, saying, "We respect your faith," and adding that intolerance toward Muslims "will not stand." Wuthnow contrasted this unequivocal comment with a 1994 interview in which Bush told a story about once pondering the question of heaven's inclusiveness for people of all religions. Wuthnow cited a few statistics, culled from surveys taken by US News, Religion and Ethics Newsweekly, the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, and his own 2003 poll of more than 2,900 adults. The finding that 71 percent of Americans believe Christians have a duty to be tolerant of other religious faiths and "leave them alone," said Wuthnow, indicates that tolerance is "a mark of citizenship - even a mark of Christian citizenship." He noted, however, that "a large majority of Americans are schooled in the Christian tradition's historic teaching about Christianity being the only hope of divine salvation"; an education, he suggested, that leads nearly half of American adults to agree with the statement that "Christianity is the only way to have a true personal relationship with God," and almost two-thirds to believe that public schools should "teach children the Ten Commandments." "Like other simmering tensions," Wuthnow contended, the tension these views create will be "markedly strained as we become a more diverse nation and gain greater awareness of that diversity." Through its Christianity, he said, the nation as a whole has a "distinctive sense of calling, destiny, and historic privilege" that cannot be understood without "paying attention to the ways in which Americans ... have viewed those outside the Christian arena." How people think about their own faith, he maintained, "is closely tied to their views of other faiths, and these views together tell us what kind of people we should be." Streamlining a taxonomy developed by renowned scholar Martin E. Marty, Wuthnow grouped Christians in this country loosely as (1) spiritual shoppers, who make up "25 to 30 percent of the American public" and dabble in philosophies and practices such as Zen Buddhism, meditation, gestalt therapy, and kundalini yoga but "do not engage very seriously with the leaders and followers of other world religions"; (2) Christian inclusivists, who "take the Christian tradition seriously but also accept the validity of other religions and feel it is important to learn from them" and who, at 35 to 40 percent of the American public are perhaps "the most significant and most interesting"; and (3) Christian exclusivists, who comprise about a quarter of the population and are most likely evangelicals. Christian exclusivists, he maintained, "believe that only Christians are saved and that the Bible is the unique revelation of divine truth." Such worshippers, according to Wuthnow, practice a kind of "polite avoidance" vis-a-vis various religions of their friends and neighbors. In each case, he added, it will take what he called "cultural work" to reconcile Americans' identities as Christians with the growing presence of non-Christians. "One would think that churches, especially in religiously diverse neighborhoods," he said, "might be leading the way in helping to think more explicitly and intentionally about religious diversity. They are not." Instead, programs that are making the most headway toward true religious understanding are grassroots efforts like the United Religions Initiative, which assists local groups in get-togethers meant to build trust and mutual consideration, and God's Love We Deliver, a New York City - based soup kitchen that invites people of all religions to participate. "Peeling potatoes and chopping carrots," Wuthnow said, paraphrasing author Courtney Bender, who wrote extensively about the organization in her book "Heaven's Kitchen," "provided occasions for people to share their stories, raise questions, and supply messages about their spiritual journeys." Wuthnow concluded on a hopeful note: "Assertions about respect will ring untrue unless there is also understanding. This is what Americans who belong to religions other than Christianity say they want most. Not tolerance, but understanding. And they do not want Christians to be any less Christian than they were, only to become better Christians, more thoughtful, truer to the teachings of Jesus." This, he suggested, is "the path to humility and love, to mercy and forgiveness." In his response, though Ronald Thiemann briefly touched on the frailties of typologies such as the one Wuthnow used to divide Christians into three main categories, he agreed that "Whatever American Christians may believe about the religious 'other' they behave in ways that discourage face-to-face human encounters that are the necessary condition for mutual understanding." He added to Wuthnow's tolerance-promoting examples the progressive social organization Tikkun and the social movement Call to Renewal, which is "dedicated to the elimination of poverty in America," but pointed out that such efforts, sadly, are "few and far between." A lively question-and-answer period addressed such topics as why Americans seem to prefer avoidance, how people end up in one category of Christian rather than another, and whether the statistics cited by Wuthnow took into account racial and ethnic identities. Both men suggested that grassroots efforts at understanding may be aided "top-down" by the worldwide Pentecostal movement, and that, perhaps most encouragingly, as Wuthnow put it, "an absolute mix of religions doesn't mean anyone has to give up what they believe."

Posted by: rajesh_g May 13 2005, 04:50 PM

Intolerance complaints bubble over at Air Force Academy Chaplain says she was fired for speaking up Lt. Col. Ryan Haaland, a physics professor, addresses a class on religious tolerance at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colo., on April 12. A task force is investigating the religious climate at the academy after reports of intolerance, including incidents of anti-Semitism. The Associated Press Updated: 8:52 p.m. ET May 12, 2005 DENVER - A top Air Force Academy chaplain said Thursday she was fired for speaking up about anti-Semitism and other reports of religious intolerance among cadets and staff, including allegations that evangelical Christians wield too much influence. advertisement Capt. Melinda Morton said she was fired last week by her boss, Col. Michael Whittington, after he pressured her to deny a professor’s account of a religious service for new cadets last year. Both chaplains had been scheduled to leave the school this year, with Whittington, the academy’s chief chaplain, retiring and Morton, his executive officer, scheduled for an overseas assignment. She called that an excuse to get rid of her. “I believe I was fired and I believe the other staff would say I was fired and that was the point of doing it,” she said in a telephone interview. The Air Force’s chief chaplain, Maj. Gen. Charles C. Baldwin, said Morton was not fired. Her duties have changed, however, because Whittington will retire in June, rather than in July as originally planned. Morton has been scheduled for reassignment to an Air Force base in Japan for some time, he said. Investigation of intolerance complaints The academy said Whittington was unavailable because he was being interviewed for a Pentagon investigation into more than 50 complaints of religious intolerance in the past several years, including cases in which one Jewish cadet was reportedly told the Holocaust was revenge for the death of Jesus and another was called a Christ killer by a fellow cadet. Morton said she was pressured to deny a report by Yale Divinity School professor Kristen Leslie that a chaplain told 600 cadets during basic training last year “to go back to their tents and tell their fellow cadets that those who are not born again will burn in the fires of hell.” “I was told by Chaplain Whittington that if someone was going to be loyal to the chaplaincy and the Air Force, then someone would take a certain view of the Yale report and view Dr. Leslie as disloyal,” Morton said. Morton also said a religious tolerance training program she helped create was watered down after Air Force officials screened it last fall. She said Baldwin ordered the removal of several video clips, including one from the Holocaust movie “Schindler’s List” and another about American Indian religion. ‘Our mouths fell open’ She said he also objected to dramatizations of interactions between cadets of different religions, saying they were unfair to Christians. Morton recalled him asking: “I would just like to know why in your presentation Christians never win.” “Our mouths fell open,” she said. Baldwin said Thursday he believed Christians were portrayed too often as being at fault. “I wanted it to be more representative of the religious scenarios that exist there,” he said. “I wanted more diverse scenarios, perhaps a Buddhist cadet asking about permission to get their religious needs met.” He said the movie clip, which showed Nazi soldiers shooting Jews, was too extreme, and that the Indian religion clip was superfluous. Academy officials said the tolerance program will evolve as officials study cadets’ reactions. The school recently started requiring staff members and all 4,300 cadets to take the 50-minute class. ‘Did we get it 100 percent correct? No’ “We believe the class is teaching what we want it to teach, and that is: respect others’ beliefs,” academy spokesman Lt. Col. Laurent Fox said. “Did we get it 100 percent correct? No, but we’re going to continue to try to make it better.” The scandal follows claims in 2003 by scores of female cadets who said they had been sexually assaulted; many also claimed they were punished or ignored by their commanders when they spoke up. The Air Force responded by overhauling leadership and instituting new policies. More than 90 percent of the cadets identify themselves as Christian. A cadet survey in 2003 found that half had heard religious slurs and jokes. Asked why such problems exist at the academy and apparently not at West Point and the Naval Academy, Morton pointed to nearby Colorado Springs, home to several influential conservative Christian organizations. “Because it is surrounded by very powerful evangelical organizations that have an agenda and have a lot of influence at the Air Force Academy and at the White House,” Morton said. Tom Minnery, a spokesman for the Colorado Springs-based ministry Focus on the Family, has disputed such claims, saying an “anti-Christian bigotry” was developing at the school.

Posted by: rajesh_g May 15 2005, 03:20 PM

From: "Kalavai Venkat" Date: Sat May 14, 2005 10:10 am Subject: How to fight the missionary threat? history_judge Offline Offline Send Email Send Email How to fight the missionary threat? Here is one of my promised posts. A Hindu, when fighting the missionary, does so from a position of [often self-inflicted] weakness. The missionary has many advantages: 1. He is well funded. 2. India has a substantial section of the population that lives below the poverty line. A section of this population falls easy pray to the missionary. 3. India has a vociferous section of its intelligentsia that has been conditioned to be sympathetic to Christianity. Usually, this group also displays an animosity towards Hinduism in public while comfortably adhering to the same Hindu practices in personal life whether it is marriage or social intercourse. 4. Sections of Indian society have been doing the dirty job for the missionaries. They denigrate Hinduism, attack Hindu mutts and swamis and thus keep the Hindus on the defensive mode. 5. Indian constitution accords the Christians special privileges. Their schools are funded with tax payer money and their churches maintained with government funding. 6. Most importantly, no Hindu has done a worthwhile job of taking the attack on Christianity to its camp. I have often heard Hindus remark, "At least the missionaries do some work among the poor. Let us also do it." As a matter of fact, Hindu missions like the Ramakrishna Mission [RKM] have done phenomenal amount of work that no missionary can match. Yet, the media celebrates a Mother Teresa, a Vatican implant and a money launderer in Calcutta, who did practically nothing. RKM gets no mention. Do all seva you want but never think that it will alter public perception, which is shaped by propaganda. The masses are certified idiots. They can't think. They simply swallow the trendiest propaganda. So, no matter how much work the Hindus do through RKM, Swami Jayendra Sarasvati, Art of Living, Mata Amritananda Mayi or the Ekal Vidyalaya they will never get any recognition from the media. Hindus also remark, "Many convert due to caste discrimination." Any discrimination is terrible. But the above perception is flawed. Most converts have been tribal people that were never discriminated against. Likewise, many of the Harijan jatis never convert. Most crucially, caste discriminations can be handled only through effective law enforcement, not through the antics of bleeding hearts. Don't forget that Koreans, Filipinos and Chinese too convert in large numbers. Which caste is discriminating against them? This brings us back to the crucial point. Much of the missionary funding comes from the USA. Without money, nobody in India will convert. More importantly, the Indian pastors that effect conversions will not have the motivation to work. The missionaries here have no respect for other cultures, nor any respect for any truth. The practicing Christians here often contribute 10 percent of their salary to the church through direct deposit. So, a Hindu has a few goals to achieve: Plug the flow of donation from the average American to his church. For this to happen, we must force many practicing Christians to abandon their religion. This is a long term strategy but it has to be done. If Europeans could abandon Christianity, there is no reason why Americans shouldn't. Practically no American school teaches the students that Jesus is unknown to history. No Christian here thinks that the cross is a symbol of injustice and aggression. Hindus must initiate a systematic campaign that will bring Christianity down from the high pedestal and force the next generation to abandon that cult. Here is a list of what we must do: · Review American schoolbooks that teach about Jesus. File law suits demanding that the schools teach that Jesus is a myth, not an historical person. Remember that Christianity is entirely dependent on Jesus having been a historical person, the only son of god that died for your sins and then resurrected. · File law suits demanding that the cross be banned just like the Nazi swastika has been. The cross and the crucifix have been the constant reminders of an invented myth that resulted in the persecution of Jews over 2 millennia. · Run campaigns that will force Christians to pay attention to you. Some time back I told a friend in private conversation that we should create a "Christmas Quiz – How good a Christian are you?" banner and advertise in Yahoo around Christmas. It should take the reader to a website with 10 questions on the most fundamental myths like Christmas, resurrection, Nazareth etc. Informed answers must be provided. In 20 minutes, we will make the ardent Christian waver in his faith. This will trigger discussions in church that the pastors can't answer. One can be assured of millions of surfers and we should be able to generate a huge profit from advertisements doing this. The best form of aggression is the one in which the opponent foots the bill. · Write campaign attacking Christianity as an intolerant cult that has no more right than the Nazi to evangelize. Usually, the missionaries hide behind the tenet of "Freedom of expression" to further their cult. The rest of the world has played by their rules. It is time to challenge this: "Yes, freedom of expression is sacrosanct but it can't be extended to criminal ideologies like Nazism or Christianity." If we don't make the American Christians to abandon this cult, we can't stop the erosion of Hinduism. Thanks.
From: "G.SUBRAMANIAM" Date: Sat May 14, 2005 12:04 pm Subject: Re: [IndianCivilization] How to fight the missionary threat? gsubrec@... Send Email Send Email ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kalavai Venkat" To: Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2005 1:10 PM Subject: [IndianCivilization] How to fight the missionary threat? How to fight the missionary threat? Here is one of my promised posts. A Hindu, when fighting the missionary, does so from a position of [often self-inflicted] weakness. The missionary has many advantages: 1. He is well funded. 2. India has a substantial section of the population that lives below the poverty line. A section of this population falls easy pray to the missionary. ----- Thats why rapid economic growth neutralises a lot of missionary activity Much more than hindu charity Thats also why xtian missionaries fund naxalites ---- 3. India has a vociferous section of its intelligentsia that has been conditioned to be sympathetic to Christianity. Usually, this group also displays an animosity towards Hinduism in public while comfortably adhering to the same Hindu practices in personal life whether it is marriage or social intercourse. 4. Sections of Indian society have been doing the dirty job for the missionaries. They denigrate Hinduism, attack Hindu mutts and swamis and thus keep the Hindus on the defensive mode. 5. Indian constitution accords the Christians special privileges. Their schools are funded with tax payer money and their churches maintained with government funding. 6. Most importantly, no Hindu has done a worthwhile job of taking the attack on Christianity to its camp. ------ Which is why I condemn moron-swamis who praise jesus The protestant missionaries do a lot less charity than the catholics and are more successful ---- G.S
From: "Kalavai Venkat" Date: Sat May 14, 2005 6:53 pm Subject: Re: How to fight the missionary threat? history_judge Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Dear Benjamin and Dr. Kalyan, Ref msgs # 75010, <<>> Not at all. The purpose of discussion is to express opinions freely, and I very much respect your opinions. I know this is going to cause a ruckus. Nevertheless, it has to be done. The cross is the constant reminder of a myth that repeatedly led to persecution of the Jews. You must be following the Weinstein case: What question would a child that looks at the cross or crucifix ask? She will ask, "What is this? Who is this person? Who killed him?" The inevitable answer is, "The Jews killed him." A Jewish friend that served in the US Army said that this myth is taken literally by the "Red" Americans [who outnumber the "Blue" Americans 4:1 in the armed forces] and that at home they are indoctrinated that way. A friend's wife that teaches in NC also confirmed that middle school students do make cat calls and shout, "Holy cow, holy cow," when she takes classes. So, this variety of religion-based bigotry is quite deep in the "Red" America. Sure, they will revolt. But we can't evade this crucial issue just because of that. It will be a long battle, but ultimately the blind followers must be weaned away from Christianity. Christian fanaticism is a threat not only for Hindus. It is a threat for anyone that respects liberty. Recently, a pastor in Seattle flexed his muscle and forced Microsoft to withdraw its support for the gay marriage bill. Microsoft succumbed. The fanatical rabble- rouser Pat Robertson [who calls other religions "pests" and "termites" meant for eradication, and who glorifies intolerance because the Bible is intolerant] and 2 others run law schools that churn out nearly a thousand "faith-inspired" lawyers every year. In those law schools, the class starts with singing Christian songs to the strumming of guitar and the legal tenets are analyzed from the Biblical standpoint. So, we are looking at a group that is organized, articulate, dangerous, intolerant and fanatical. This group draws its inspiration from the Bible and the cross is their artifice for aggression, as it has always been for the church. Follow the programs on the NPR. Many liberals have at last come to realize the enormity of the situation, albeit they have done so 10 years too late. Now, the only way to stop this is to erode the support base. This is going to happen only when we discuss the truth about Jesus and the cross. <<>> Actually, the tone and content of the Bible is not much different from that of the Quran. A propaganda blitz running for decades has brainwashed people into believing that Jesus symbolizes love. But, it is time to blow away this smokescreen. Let the faithful face the Biblical verses. How will they react to something like this: ? There are many more but the debate has to begin in the right earnest at the popular level. Initially, many a faithful will find the campaign revolting. But, ultimately they will see the facts. Many will desert the cult. <<>> All nice people believe that the rest of the world is like them; you're no exception, my good friend. :-) Most American Christians from the "Blue" states will find the tactics deployed by the missionary repulsive but even they think that is their right to evangelize. The fanatical Christians, who are quite a force in the USA, are a different breed. I arrived at this conclusion after watching over 300 hours of recorded versions of TV evangelical programs while flying on work. <<>> Both Christ and the associated humanity are myths! I am just using the term easily understood. In Europe, the wave started with Renaissance. Ironically, the Nazi and the Fascist movements saw the church as a competitor and reduced its scope – though they collaborated in sharing the loot that ensued the Holocaust. The liberals that replaced the Fascists have been vociferous in their Left leanings. Of course, increasing wealth and declining populations eroded the church base. See the Newsweek from 2 weeks ago on the statistics on the declining Christian base in Europe. Thanks.

Posted by: rajesh_g May 15 2005, 04:26 PM

Liberal Bible-Thumping By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF Published: May 15, 2005 Even aside from his arguments that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married and that St. Paul was a self-hating gay, the new book by a former Episcopal bishop of Newark is explosive. John Shelby Spong, the former bishop, tosses a hand grenade into the cultural wars with "The Sins of Scripture," which examines why the Bible - for all its message of love and charity - has often been used through history to oppose democracy and women's rights, to justify slavery and even mass murder. It's a provocative question, and Bishop Spong approaches it with gusto. His mission, he says, is "to force the Christian Church to face its own terrifying history that so often has been justified by quotations from 'the Scriptures.' " This book is long overdue, because one of the biggest mistakes liberals have made has been to forfeit battles in which faith plays a crucial role. Religion has always been a central current of American life, and it is becoming more important in politics because of the new Great Awakening unfolding across the United States. Yet liberals have tended to stay apart from the fray rather than engaging in it. In fact, when conservatives quote from the Bible to make moral points, they tend to quote very selectively. After all, while Leviticus bans gay sex, it also forbids touching anything made of pigskin (is playing football banned?) - and some biblical passages seem not so much morally uplifting as genocidal. "Can we really worship the God found in the Bible who sent the angel of death across the land of Egypt to murder the firstborn males in every Egyptian household?" Bishop Spong asks. Or what about 1 Samuel 15, in which God is quoted as issuing orders to wipe out all the Amalekites: "Kill both man and woman, child and infant." Hmmm. Tough love, or war crimes? As for the New Testament, Revelation 19:17 has an angel handing out invitations to a divine dinner of "the flesh of all people." Bishop Spong, who has also taught at Harvard Divinity School, argues that while Christianity historically tried to block advances by women, Jesus himself treated women with unusual dignity and was probably married to Mary Magdalene. Christianity may have become unfriendly to women's rights partly because, in its early years, it absorbed an antipathy for sexuality from the Neoplatonists. That led to an emphasis on the perpetual virginity of Mary, with some early Christian thinkers even trying to preserve the Virgin Mary's honor by raising the possibility that Jesus had been born through her ear. The squeamishness about sexuality led the church into such absurdities as a debate about "prelapsarian sex": the question of whether Adam and Eve might have slept together in the Garden of Eden, at least if they had stayed longer. St. Augustine's dour answer was: Maybe, but they wouldn't have enjoyed it. In modern times, this same discomfort with sex has led some conservative Christians to a hatred of gays and a hostility toward condoms, even to fight AIDS. Bishop Spong particularly denounces preachers who selectively quote Scripture against homosexuality. He also cites various textual reasons for concluding (not very persuasively) that St. Paul was "a frightened gay man condemning other gay people so that he can keep his own homosexuality inside the rigid discipline of his faith." The bishop also tries to cast doubt on the idea that Judas betrayed Jesus. He notes that the earliest New Testament writings, of Paul and the source known as Q, don't mention a betrayal by Judas. Bishop Spong contends that after the destruction of Jewish Jerusalem in A.D. 70, early Christians curried favor with Roman gentiles by blaming the Crucifixion on Jewish authorities - nurturing two millennia of anti-Semitism that bigots insisted was biblically sanctioned. Some of the bishop's ideas strike me as more provocative than persuasive, but at least he's engaged in the debate. When liberals take on conservative Christians, it tends to be with insults - by deriding them as jihadists and fleeing the field. That's a mistake. It's entirely possible to honor Christian conservatives for their first-rate humanitarian work treating the sick in Africa or fighting sex trafficking in Asia, and still do battle with them over issues like gay rights. Liberals can and should confront Bible-thumping preachers on their own terms, for the scriptural emphasis on justice and compassion gives the left plenty of ammunition. After all, the Bible depicts Jesus as healing lepers, not slashing Medicaid.

Posted by: utepian May 16 2005, 11:13 AM

Pat Robertson in India

evangelism Robertson in India: Many Receive Hope and Freedom through Christ By George Thomas CBN News Sr. Reporter – NEW DELHI, India - Last week, Pat Robertson took the message of hope to the world's largest democracy -- India. Many in the Indian audience were also blessed with miracles. With no prepared notes to rely on, and just the Holy Spirit, Pat did what he does every day in America and has done so countless times around the world, share the message of the love of Jesus Christ. On this Friday night, with the help of an interpreter, that message found its way into the hearts of Indians who had gathered in their nation's capital city of New Delhi. The venue was the famous Ram Leela Stadium, an Indian word meaning the "playground of the Hindu gods." But on this night, the ground belonged to those who had raised their hands to accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. It was also a night for those who were looking for a miracle and wanted to be set free from the bondage of sin and disease. Many came forward to testify to what God had done in their lives. One man said he had been tormented for years by voices in his head. Our CBN News camera caught him on the ground crying out to God for help. He said that when Pat had a word about people being delivered from evil spirits, he jumped up and claimed that word for his life. A Hindu woman said she had chronic stomach bleeding but believed God had healed her too. Several men came that night with severe back and leg problems. They left leaping and jumping and praising God! Pat was invited to India to share the Gospel by one of this country's most prominent evangelists, Dr. D.G.S. Dhinakaran. Pat is no stranger to India. For years, he has used CBN and Operation Blessing to minister God's love to countless Indian people. And today he is praying that more will be touched by this love. Pat said, “I feel that these most beautiful people, they are so hungry for God. You know this is the largest democracy in the world, over a billion people, and perhaps this would be considered the most religious country on earth. But they are looking for the wrong God. I believe they are open to Jesus, and my hope is to see 100 million Indians come to the Lord Jesus Christ in the next few years.” And that has CBN's WorldReach office in Hyderabad, India, working around the clock to reach those people with the Gospel. Kumar Periasamy manages CBN's office in India. He says that through CBN's television shows, medical and humanitarian projects, many are encountering the unsearchable riches of Jesus Christ. Kumar commented, “We are hearing about transformation in whole societies, where people are open to the Gospel and many are coming to know the Lord.” And now CBN is launching a new effort to reach one of India's most oppressed people groups who are known as the Untouchables, or Dalits. Pat stated, “There are 300 million of these people [who] have been condemned to the lowest kind of poverty and degradation, primarily on the color of their skin. And I believe that they want to know the answer, that they are not doomed by false religion to a life of just degradation and misery. So we are making a major, major thrust to the Dalits, that they might here the Good News of the Gospel.” Meanwhile, India is facing unprecedented changes. Unlike ever before, so many now have access to material wealth. Many have seen the world and yet they are not satisfied. On almost every street corner, one can find spirituality on sale. But Pat says only one message can bring people here and find eternal peace. Pat remarked, “The thing that is important is God, the author of all the Earth took on flesh and He loved people so much that He became flesh, and He died as a human being, and rose again. That message transcends all cultures and all religions, and I think it will win the hearts of the Indian people." And it did on this night in New Delhi. More than half of those in attendance gave their lives to Christ. Pat invited them to receive the Lord, saying, “Tonight, if you want to serve the Lord, I want to you to stand up where you are and I want to pray for you.” And before leaving the stage, Pat said a special prayer, blessing those who were willing to stand in the gap for their nation.

Posted by: Mudy May 16 2005, 11:24 AM

Pioneer - 5/16/05

No God but (my) God Sandhya Jain Though it is nearly two decades since the agitation for the Ram Janmabhoomi questioned the meaning of secularism, there has since been little serious discussion of the concept. Growing Hindu unease over heightened pro-missionary activism by Congress-led regimes in various States, however, demands that the community's views be articulated to facilitate mature public discourse on the subject. Secularism originated in the Christian West as a truce offered by a denominational State to sister denominations, whereby they could coexist in peace for the larger good of the nation. With time, the State ceased to be denominational (though Britain formally remains so), and the offer of coexistence was extended to other faiths that entered Christian lands as immigrants. The rise of immigrant groups in Western countries gave rise to the doctrine of multi-culturalism, whereby non-Christian, non-European peoples were permitted to live a separate existence within the host culture. The rising tide of Islamic fundamentalism, however, is tearing this tolerance apart and voices are being raised in favour of the coercive assimilation that was once the hallmark of the American way. Hindus, therefore, are not the only people in the world to question the attitude of forbearance towards the abuse of native kindness. Hindus are aware that while Islam openly professes the unity of mosque and State, Christianity detests the separation of church and State and has, from the time the cleavage was forced upon it, continued to use the state to secure its ends. The Western reality, therefore, is that the State is Christian at some level and the church in turn serves as a political arm of the State. Hence the active interest in evangelical activities by Western regimes. India's secular State extends undue patronage to the Church; as a result Hindu patience is beginning to wear thin. The situation has deteriorated with the rise of the Sonia Gandhi-led Congress in some states. So we have a situation in which BJP-ruled Rajasthan has to change the name of a colony named after the Goddess Sati, but Maharashtra sanctions a Christian township! Press reports suggest that former Australia cricket captain, Steve Waugh, wishes to set up a 100-400 acre "Christian township" in Mumbai. A rabid evangelist, Waugh recently donated millions for the conversion of tsunami victims. Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh has already appointed State Industry Secretary as nodal agency for the proposal, no doubt scoring points with his party chief. In Karnataka, Congress Chief Minister Dharam Singh shamelessly facilitated Benny Hinn's evangelical blitzkrieg, which mercifully fell flat, causing embarrassment even to the official church. Dharam Singh's predecessor, SM Krishna, patronized HT Sangliana, Director General of Police (Prisons), who openly supports missionaries. A 1969-batch IAS officer from Meghalaya, Sangliana became famous in November 2001 when he ordered the arrest of Hindu activists protesting against mass conversions in Doddabalapur (Bangalore Rural). Sangliana and some senior police officers openly lecture on the Bible at Bible College of India, Bangalore, at weekends. While this is by no means a contraband activity, one does wonder if the State administration's tolerance of this display of religious freedom would extend to a Hindu officer indulging in weekly Ram kathas. Even if not openly victimised, such an officer would be sidelined and derided as a bit of a 'crank.' Sangliana however, suffers no such disability; he openly sided with missionaries when the Ma Bhagavati temple in Devanahalli (Bangalore Rural) and Sri Durgamba Temple in Banaswadi (Bangalore) were demolished and churches erected in their place in 2002. In both cases, the Chief Minister and important Congress leaders supported the evangelicals. It is hardly surprising to learn, therefore, that as many as 84 Churches have sprung up in this area in just the last two years. But the Chief Minister who takes the cake is Y Samuel Rajasekhara Reddy (YSR) of Andhra Pradesh. A practicing Seventh Day Adventist, Reddy reportedly had 350 farmhands converted by the Adventists on his own farm, and is now building a church for them. Reddy is openly pro-missionary. Recently, when it was found that a church is being constructed on lands belonging to the famous Bhadrachalam Rama Temple, given to a Christian organisation for setting up a school, the chief minister prevented restoration of the land to the temple. So now the church is coming up and conversion activity is in full swing at an exceedingly sacred Hindu site. Mandir lands are also being freely distributed in Naxal-infested areas; a sub-inspector who opposed this was done to death, allegedly by Maoist Naxalites. YSR has handed over the distribution of mid-day meals to government school students to Christian bodies and NGOs, who make the children recite "yesu nama" before giving them the food. This is not only tantamount to forced conversion but also involves the psychological abuse of minors. The worst offence, however, is the gifting of the contract for procurement of materials for prasadam at Tirupati Balaji to a Kochi Syrian Christian, GB Mathew and his firm, the JRG Wealth Management Limited, three weeks ago. Hindu activists suspect that Christians are being smuggled into crucial areas of decision-making at Tirupathi. For instance, some time ago YSR laid the foundation stones for the construction of Vasantha Mandapam in Tirumala, and construction of a new building for Sri Venkateshwara Oriental College in Tirupati. It is feared that the contracts for these Rs 109-crore projects may be awarded exclusively to Christian firms, thereby making mandir funds available for proselytisation activities. One week ago, YSR engineered a deal between the Sri Venkateshwara Institute of Medical Sciences Hospital (SVIMS, which is owned and run by the TTD) and Dr Cherian's Frontier Lifeline and Dr KM Cherian Heart Foundation for a telemedicine facility. Dr Cherian is the founder of Madras Medical Mission, a true missionary hospital based in Chennai, and YSR inaugurated the telemedicine facility through video-conference. Personally, I have little doubt that Dr Cherian is a thorough professional. But given the scale and audacity of missionary activity in the southern states, Hindus feel alarmed that a premier institution owned by one of the most sacred Mandirs of the Hindus (the funds for which come from ordinary Hindu bhaktas) should be made to tie-up with a missionary organization by the State Government. It is well known in Andhra Pradesh that there are more than a dozen Hindu institutions that can match and even surpass the facilities offered by Dr Cherian and his team. In the unlikely event that YSR is not aware of them, they include hospitals of the stature of Apollo Hospitals; Sri Ramachandra Medical College and Hospitals; Sri Sai Baba's hospital at Puttaparthi; Mata Amritanandamayi's Hospital at Kochi; Narayana Hridayalaya of Bangalore; Escorts Hospital, and many other super-speciality hospitals in Hyderabad. YSR has been equally generous to the State's other monotheistic community. It is well-known that the Andhra Government owes nearly Rs 100 crores to Tirupati Tirumala Devasthanam as compensation for Mandir lands acquired for the construction of bus stands and bus depots. Though it has failed to remit even one rupee of this amount, the Government recently demanded property tax dues from TTD and on receipt of rupees six crores, instantly diverted the sum to create an Idgah Maidan on railway lands next to the Sri Venkateshwara University lands owned by TTD. This, then, is secularism in one country.

Posted by: k.ram May 17 2005, 04:13 PM

Southern Baptists aim for India’s conversion to Churchianity As every year on Pentecost Sunday, the Southern Baptist-International Mission Board (IMB), set aside May 15 (Pentecost Sunday) to brainstorm strategies and pray for the conversion of India - a country where one-sixth of the world's population lives. (Source: ) The International Mission Board is an entity of the Southern Baptist Convention, and aims to present the gospel to lead individuals towards faith, and attempts to initiate a church planting movement among all the people of the world. Claiming more than 40,000 churches with nearly 16 million members, the Southern Baptist evangelical denomination, has expressed its wish to carry the light of Jesus out to the “spiritual darkness” in India and across the globe. Besides being home to a tolerant Hindu majority, India is a great and huge mission field, having more than 600,000 unreached villages and is in a very strategic positioning to fulfill the “great commission” (to convert the gullible heathens). Its size, diversity and the Indian Government’s support to missionaries are the reasons why IMB is focusing on this country with prayer. Southern Baptists have urged and encouraged their congregations to draw up their resources and pray strongly for India’s conversion on Pentecost Sunday (15 May).

Posted by: k.ram May 18 2005, 05:54 AM

US Missionary Tour in the Guise of RSS Attack Hosadigantha, Kannada Daily, Mangalore May 18, 2005 Calicut This is a 'spring time' for the pastors who visit the US. Facing the fury of the Hindus whom they try to convert, the number of protestant pastors who flee to America is increasing day by day. In this the Kerala pastors have a lion's share. A network of Christian deceit centers headquartered at Pattanamthitta now stand exposed. It is enough if the protestant pastors holding Indian passport register their names in their office. Rest will be taken care of by the American churches. Protestant members who wish to visit America should have the skill of good acting. They should be ready to assert that they were subjected to assault by the RSS. Even while crying piteously, they should be ready to say, 'In our country (in Kerala, India) a lot of disturbance takes place. RSS people are killing the missionaries'. It seems that the American churches pour a lot of money the moment these pastors announce that they are ready to work for Jesus Christ even sacrificing their life against the RSS. When the pastor returns back to his place in Kerala, he would quietly say that he does not know who Jesus is. To a question whether RSS people assaulted him, he would let out the truth by saying 'no'. It is learnt that since last one year, 600 Keralites have gone round America and collected corers of rupees under the false pretext of RSS attack. They now live peacefully in their places in Kerala, having purchased property and built houses. It is learnt that there are commission agents in Pattanamthitta and Kottayam Districts, who arrange to send such persons to America. There are reports that they collect money from Americans, shedding crocodile tears in the streets of America even while they insult the RSS, Hindu Dharma and India. The silence of the Church against such anti-Hindu activities of these people has naturally been the cause of suspicion.

Posted by: Mudy May 27 2005, 05:42 PM

Save Andhra Pradesh! Canadian missionary on mass conversion spree Posted May 27, 2005 Intelligence Report May 2005 Andhra Pradesh may become a Christian majority state if the current spree of mass conversion continues. One of the most powerful men behind the conversions in Andhra Pradesh is the missionary, Mr. D. Ron Watts, a Canadian, who heads the Southern Asia Division of the Seventh-day Adventist church. Mr. Ron Watts is famous for his `cluster bombing churches' with his $10 church programmes. Dorothy Watts, an American, and wife of Ron Watts manages the US finances for the mass conversion programme in India, and Andhra Pradesh in particular. They both have a well-organized network in India, which has the support of the local politiciansas well as his cohorts. It seems that their work became much easier due to official help rendered by Y Samuel Rajasekhara Reddy's Government. Conversion activity suddenly increased as soon as Congress Government under the leadership of Sonia Gandhi assumed power at Federal Government. . Surprisingly, Mr. Ron Watts and his wife have come to India on Business visa, and are 'engaging in activities which are incompatible with their visa status.' According to Indian law visitor on Business Visa cannot engage in such activities. Now-a- days it is customary among missionaries to enter on Business visa though the earlier mode has been Visitor Visa. Ch. Vidhyasagar Rao, Minister of State for Home declared in Parliament that officially no missionary entered India in the last 30 years. They brought in more than 400 foreigners on Business visa for conversions in India. The two frontline organizations that are facilitating conversions by building thousands of churches in India are Maranatha International and Global Mission. These organizations too have come on the invitation of Mr.D. Ron Watts. The business entities Mr. Watts uses as front-end for his nefarious activities is not know. According to the May 13, 2003 issue of the official news bulletin of the Seventh-day Adventist Church world headquarters based in Maryland, Washington, Mr. Ron Watts has converted 500,000 people within a period of just five years in India which translates to 300 people/day. "India, with its population of 1 billion, is among the countries that present an acute challenge to church growth for Seventh-day Adventists. The church is growing rapidly in India, says Ron Watts, president of the church's Southern Asia region. "The church has grown from 225,000 people to over 700,000 in five years. In a culture that places a high importance on a house of worship, we urgently need churches to accommodate these new members," he said. Check the following link Their website details the conversion activities. According to a report, Mr. D. Ron Watts has requested Maranatha to build 10,000 churches. Kyle Fiess, Maranatha marketing director, reports: "We were astonished when Ron Watts presented us with a proposal for 10,000 churches in India. That seemed like a fanciful number until we began working there and witnessed the immense potential. As we have completed each project, many in areas with no prior Christian influence, we have seen the Holy Spirit move in incredible ways throughout India," Fiess explains. "After many experiences like the one in Ongole, we no longer consider 10,000 churches to be an unrealistic goal, but an unparalleled opportunity. Maranatha's experience in India has reinforced our commitment to constructing simple houses of worship as an effective way to spread the Gospel throughout the world." Could you believe, according to the following report, 15,018 people had been converted on a single day in Ongole, Andhra Pradesh: Here's the latest report where Mr. D. Ron Watts accepts that 600,000 people have been converted ever since he assumed charge as president: "In 1998 the Southern Asia Division had a reported 225,000 members. Today, Ron Watts, president of the Southern Asia Division, estimates that the numbers reach 825,000." In the third article of this bulletin, one will find a photo and report on the 1,119 Conversions in Tanuku village conducted by foreigners under the leadership of Mrs. Dorothy Watts: The following report and picture by Mrs. Dorothy Watts will help confirm the truth that foreigners are involved in conversion which is against their visa status. The following report shows the photo of mass conversion under the leadership of D. Ron Watts in Andhra Pradesh. Though India gained Independence in 1947 many haven't forgotten their obsession for white people (also called `Gora Sahib'). It also shows how foreign missionaries, who come on tourist visas/business visas are glorified on pandals: Here is another report and photos of 1,100 people are getting converted by foreign lady missionaries in Andhra Pradesh: Photos of village people in Andhra Pradesh, being brought in for conversion in a tractor, and foreign missionaries: Look at the Photos in Guntur, Andhra Pradesh. This is how the foreigners bribe poor pastors with motorbikes for catching people for conversions. Naturally, the pastors tempted to convert : Please read this report by a foreign missionary couple of their successes in Andhra Pradesh: Photos of mass conversion and a report by a foreign missionary lady in Andhra Pradesh: A few weeks ago, D. Ron Watts told a meeting in America that Maranatha international was very helpful to his activities. Here is the link: This article under the sub-title 'Southern Asia Division' reports that 15,632 people had been converted during the 2nd quarter of 2003. type=ARTICLES&id=1117225158

Posted by: Mudy May 29 2005, 11:56 AM

Religious Row in Kerala Over Tsunami Relief KERALA, INDIA, May 24, 2005 BBC Five months after the tsunami hit the southern coast of India, relief work has stalled in the southern state of Kerala after a row between Hindu and Christian groups. Right-wing Hindu groups are angry at the local administration for allowing Christian organizations to participate in the reconstruction of homes for the mainly Hindu tsunami victims, reports this article. They allege that the church is using relief programs as a means for converting Hindus, a charge that has been denied. Last December, tsunami waves struck thickly populated, low lying Alappad leaving around 150 people dead and destroying many houses. Over 25,000 people were sheltered in relief camps after the tsunami. Every family gets US$ 23 a month from the government and charities also help them out. But a few Hindu groups are unhappy at the relief work. The Hindu Aikyavedi group says it is connected to India's oldest Hindu organization, the RSS. "Why should Church organizations be allowed to reconstruct homes in Alappad?," its leader Kummanam Rajashekhar says. "Christian missionaries and organizations connected with the local church are converting Hindus in the garb of providing tsunami relief." But the local administrator, B. Srinivas, rejected this charge. "We have thoroughly investigated the claim and found the claim to be baseless," he said. Kerala is home to a substantial number of Christians who wield considerable political influence. They form some 20% of the state's population. Alappad is home to the Hindu religious organization led by spiritual leader, Mata Amritanandmayee. Her religious center runs several charitable and educational institutions in the state. Its seaside ashram was hit by the tsunami, it was one of the first to reach out to the affected people and is still involved in providing relief material. Organizations like Hindu Aikyavedi have demanded that this religious center should be the only organization allowed in the reconstruction work. The local administration decided to divide the reconstruction work among different organizations after being inundated with requests from both religious organizations and local charities. "How could we give the entire island to Mata Amritanandmayee's center to rebuild overlooking requests from church organizations and local charities?," said an official in Alappad who wished to remain unnamed. The tsunami affected families are eager to get permanent homes. But they are caught among different groups and interests that want to have a stake in the entire reconstruction process.

Posted by: G.Subramaniam May 29 2005, 09:49 PM

A reminder, My grass roots team does a lot of low cost anti-conversion work in Chennai area and in Andhra too Many India-forum members contribute to it ( thanks )

Posted by: keshto patel May 29 2005, 09:59 PM

QUOTE(G.Subramaniam @ May 30 2005, 10:19 AM)
A reminder, My grass roots team does a lot of low cost anti-conversion work in Chennai area and in Andhra too Many India-forum members contribute to it ( thanks )
How can one contribute to you, pls let me know.

Posted by: G.Subramaniam May 29 2005, 11:45 PM

I just sent you a private email

Posted by: Mudy May 31 2005, 08:48 AM biggrin.gif

Posted by: Mudy Jun 1 2005, 12:26 PM

Posting full for entertainment biggrin.gif

QUOTE The Rev. Nirmala (Peters) Reinschmidt, originally from Chennai, India, did her seminary internship at Augustana Lutheran Church in St. James back in 1994-1995. On Sunday, May 22 she returned to Augustana Lutheran as guest speaker, taking a short break from her duties as Associate Pastor at First Lutheran Church of Crystal in Brooklyn Park, Minnesota. Although Pastor Nirmala focused upon Trinity Sunday in her sermon, she afterwards talked briefly with the Sunday School classes and gave a slide presentation about the Church in India, including her involvement with a missionary school in east India. Parents in India often send their children to Christian schools, Pastor Nirmala told the Sunday School kids, but this does not mean that either the parents or their children convert from Hinduism to Christianity. Sometimes, it is a matter of the children simply getting a good meal at school during the day which draws parents to send their children to Christian schools. Pastor Nirmala (Peters) Reinschmidt, originally from Chennai, India, discusses the situation of the Christian church in India with Sunday School students at Augustana Lutheran Church on Sunday, May 22. Pastor Ted Kunze invited her to preach the Trinity Sunday sermon at Augustana, where she had done her seminary internship in 1994-1995. Photo by Paul Murray Hindus feel that they must struggle to get to heaven in comparison with Christian beliefs, Pastor Nirmala added, with Hindu children believing that they must be very good and must try hard to get to heaven. ROTFL.gif Privately, Pastor Nirmala expressed concern for the present state of Christian denominations in India. "Christians can no longer conduct outdoor evangelical rallies like they used to," she said. "The fundamentalist Hindu government won't allow it." Anyone converting from Hinduism to Christianity, moreover, must go to a government office and testify that the conversion was totally voluntary and that the individual was baptized of his/her own free will. Pastor Nirmala explained that she herself is a "third generation Christian," and that her family was originally converted by missionaries from Denmark. Now, however, missionaries can only come into India as "visitors" and not as permanent residents. Read more on this story in the May 26 issue of the St. James Plaindealer

Posted by: acharya Jun 2 2005, 11:38 AM Check the India link

Posted by: Mudy Jun 2 2005, 11:41 AM

Parody from Hindi song and kirtan.

Posted by: Ashok Kumar Jun 2 2005, 01:45 PM

Hindus feel that they must struggle to get to heaven in comparison with Christian beliefs, Pastor Nirmala added, with Hindu children believing that they must be very good and must try hard to get to heaven.
Actually it is important to understand that there is a big difference between Catholics and protestants (especially evangelicals) on this matter. Catholics believe that faith in Jesus Christ combined with ones own conduct/acts/works etc determine the salvation. Many protestants (and notably evangelcals) believe that moment you accept Jesus Christ as your savior, all your sins are forgiven and you are saved. Good deeds are supplementary for your salvation but not necessary. Only necessary and sufficient condition is faith in Jesus Christ and accepting him as savior. Catholics have criticized this attitude by saying that it is like a license to sin. Because you can commit all the sins you want and then simply profess your acceptance of Jesus Christ as your savior, and you are automatically entiled to be saved. Rev. Nirmala belongs to the Evangelical Lutheran Church. That explains why she considers it easy for (evangelical) christians to go to heaven as compared to hindus who must earn heaven by their own good karmas. evangelicals generally adhere to four core beliefs: 1. The Bible is without error 2. Salvation comes through faith in Jesus and not through good works 3. Individuals must accept Jesus as adults (acceptance in childhood doesn't count) 4. All Christians must evangelize (convert others)

Posted by: Shambhu Jun 6 2005, 08:31 AM

I went to the Rajdhani Temple in Chantilly, Virginia yesterday. They had displayed a letter from the Lutheran Church thanking them for a donation of several 1000$ to go to Tsunami Relief. The letter was signed "In Christ, xyz". Have these people not heard of charities that actually do just charity and nothing else? Is some of the $$ forked over to Lutherans not going to conversions? WTF does a Hindu Temple have to go through a Xtian church charity that will make no bones about condemning Hindu religion with all its "dolls and superstitions". I spoke to whoever looked like a temple official. But they were clueless. "Saar, if you want to donate to the temple, here are the forms". furious.gif

Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 6 2005, 07:31 PM Are All Equal before the Law? We heard this famous statement recently on the Kanchi episode. Are all equal before the Law? Really? My investigations reveal that it is not so when dealing with christians. Specially the foreign mercenaries who come to India on the “business” of conversions. Officials in one particular denomination of proselytizing churchianity, the most virulent Seventh Day Adventists are clearly above law. This Dharma Bhoomi is a country with a christist super P.M, a christian State of Andhra Pradesh, the silicon valley Chief Minister who shamelessly dances to the tunes of a Benny Hinn and a frigid Tamil Nadu State administration that dares not act on its own orders against the christists. BRIEF SUMMARY D.R.Watts is in India on a Business Visa. He holds the post of President, South Asian Division of the Seventh Day Adventists. By his admission, he receives his monthly salary in US Dollars. But as he explicitly admits, has not taken any permission from the Reserve Bank of India to exchange his dollars. He engages himself in evangelism and proselytizing activities while on Business Visa into India. He operates out of his Hosur office of the Seventh Day Adventists. Hosur used to be a part of the Dharmapuri District, when he entered the country in 1997. When D.R.Watts came to India and assumed charge 1997, Seventh Day Adventist Church had a membership of 2,25,000 persons in all its 103 years of existence. But within a span of 5 years due to the illegal and unethical methods adopted by D.R.Watts and his agents, the SDA membership has shot up to 7 lakhs. Within a span of 5 years, he made 5 lakh baptisms and thereby 5 lakh conversions. The Executive Secretary’s presentation confirms the baptisms and the membership figures for a ten year span. In 2003, The MHA (Ministry of Home Affairs) issues a Deportation order on Ron and Dorothy Watts. This is sent to the Tamil Nadu State Government. The State Government also issues “orders” to the District Collector of Dharmapuri, asking him to deport the Canadian, Ron Watts and his American wife, Dorothy Watts. The District collector promptly writes to the Superintendent of Police, Dharmapuri District asking him to “deport” the two foreigners and present him with the action taken report. The Superintendent of Police writes to the Inspector of Mathigiri Police Station and asks for an action taken report. Two extraordinary things happen: Hosur is taken out of Dharmapuri District and is attached to Krishnagiri District in a move to better adminsitration of the districts. The Inspector of Police, Mathigiri and all the above officials go to sleep. Dharmapuri no longer controls Hosur. So all the orders get into a comatose state. It should be borne in mind that Jayalalithaa government brought the anti-conversion law after 250 villagers in Madurai District were converted to christianity by Ron Watts and his agents. And repealed it once she lost all the 40 Lok Sabha seats, when she was ‘guided’ that these neo-christians voted against her. Such is the power of christian-politics that is on the ascent in our Dharma Bhoomi. Ron Watts and Dorothy Watts continue to lead a royal life in India and convert 800,000 gulliable Hindus to christianity. The latest figures of SDA indicate a membership of 1 million people (the declaration of reaching this ‘landmark’ will be made during the General Conference in the USA). More champagne will flow in USA. And more dollars into India to strengthen the crusade of these dispicable people. I am presenting a preliminary study. I am also providing the links to each document, stored in my Yahoo photos section. This might take time to download. In addition, it is quite likely that the size of text is too small to read with comfort, meaning you have to use the zoom-in facility after downloading the material to your system. These are posted only for authenticity. I have reproduced the entire text from each one of these important documents. This will take a long time to read. But I urge you to go through the entire presentation, so you will realize the gravity of the situation. This is an extraordinary situation. Two foreigners stick out their middle fingers at our law. Right in front of our faces. And we are silent witnesses to the two christist and two christist pampering Chief Ministers of the Southern States who are our great leaders in supporting the very rape and erosion of our Hindu culture from our Dharma Bhoomi. Ron Watts is leaving India shortly to attend the General Conference of the Seventh Day Adventist in USA. He is taking with him a large contingent of 200 people. Sources confirm that he managed visas for most of them by producing letters issued by Seventh Day Risk Management Company. These are ‘kind of delegates’ to attend a seminar that in reality, is not happening, but the truth is that they are the bunch of cronies out to support Ron Watts on his re-election. There is no meeting scheduled of the Seventh Day Risk Management Group.This is a fraud committed on the US Embassy, Chennai to obtain visas for the group. Knowing the ways of the current Bush administration, perhaps, they are facilitating. Ron Watts is out to get himself re-elected to his existing post in the General Conference of the Seventh Day Adventists in USA which is scheduled on the 26th June. He will come back with renewed energy. And with much larger resources to convert many more Hindus to christianity. He knows that the Indian law is an ass. That the State administrators are plain jack-asses. He appears to have brazently fine-tuned them to his wavelength. To most, money is sweet music to ears. It is very likely that he will get a different Visa, this time. And will come back so he can continue with his flourishing business of conversions. Unless there are strong public protests and protests from Hindu Organizations, people like Ron Watts will go unchallenged. And one foresees a re-run of another Graham Staines case, if he is not kept out of India for his own safety. Maybe, the Super P.M. will give a Padma Award to Dorothy Watts, too. Like she gave the Stained widow. She got it for her two dead children. Those two are the very definition of Collateral damage, as the Yankees say. If we allow him to come back, 9,000 Hindus will get converted each month, to loathsome methods of this Satanic Seventh dayist. ---- Now, on to the main story: On 17 February, 2005, the Canadian National, D.R.Watts who is the President of the South Asia division of the Seventh Day Adventists was questioned by Shri T.S. Basheer, Executive Magistrate, Tehsildar, Tiruvilla, Kerala. He was in Kerala purportedly under the invitation of Rajan Samuel, Principal of the Seventh Day Adventist Higher Secondary School, Kuttapuzha P.O, Tiruvilla. I have a copy certified by the Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta of a 9 page deposition made by D.R.Watts before the Executive Magistrate, Tehsildar, Tiruvilla. The Text is reproduced as under: ENQUIRY AGAINST D. R. WATTS dated 17-02-05 D.R.Watts personally present before me at 6-10 P.M. today. DEPOSITION I am the Vice President of General Conference of SDA assigned to me of administration of schools, colleges, hospitals and churches. I am unaware of the kinds of the Visas. There was a case against me before the High Court of Tamil Nadu at Chennai. In that case I had sworn in an affidavit that I came to India on a Business Visa which expired last year – 2004 I applied for a new Visa, to carry on the administrator work that I am assigned in Sourhern Asia, with headquarters at Hosur, Krishnagiri District of Tamil Nadu. My Visa does not specify any purpose. I had applied for Visa for Administration purpose. Note: The Visa of Mr.Watts is verified by me and found that it, the Visa is exclusively B Type Visa, as against his deposition. 1. What Business are you doing here? Ans. I don’t know what business I am doing. 2. Why did you come to Seventh Day Adventist Higher Secondary School, Kuttapuzha, Tiruvilla to inaugurate the school building in the name of President of the South Asian Division of SDA, with a Business Visa? Ans. I was invited by them as a guest. 3. What connection, a foreign businessman with a business visa, with a school in Kerala Ans. No connection 4. You had to attend one religious function of SDA in Kottarakkara at 5 P.M. today after SDAHSS Programme. Is it true? Ans. Yes, I had to attend. 5. Under what provision of law you are involving or attending religious functions in India, especially Kerala, like the above admitted Kottarakkara functions? Ans. Under instructions/guidelines of the Foreigner’s Act, I understand that I can’t involve in such activities as above. 6. Are you a salaried person? Ans. No. I receive my funds from my employer General Conference of SDA in Silverspring, USA. 7. Here also you are admitting that you are doing religious service in India. Is it? Ans. ! am doing the administrator work of a religious organization. 8. You have admitted that you are receiving funds from the General Conference. If that be so in what currency you are receiving the fund? Ans. I am receiving the fund in U S Dollars. 9. Where are you getting these dollars? Ans. In Silverspring USA. 10. Have you got permission of the Reserve Bank of India for exchange of these dollars in India? Ans. NO 11. What did you disclose in the Form 6, Column 8, for the purpose of Visiting India? Ans. Administrator of the Seventh Day church. 12. You are well aware of the North Kerala, South Kerala and South West Indian area of the Kerala fields? Ans. Yes 13. Am I not correct to say that you are attending their functions? Ans. Occassionally. 14. Do you know that you can’t do any religious work in India, with a B Type Visa? Ans. I do accept. 15. Do you feel that you have violated all laws genarally Foreigners Act by virtue of the above facts. Ans. Yes 16. You are taking with you many foreigners with Tourist Visa. Is it? Ans. NO 17. It is found in the above facts that you have admitted in your own words you are guilty of having violated all the laws governing Foreigners. Is it? Ans. I agree. 18. Therefore are you ready to leave the country all by yourself within 24 hours? Ans. YES. 19. Or do you know that you will be sent to jail, for any more violation of the law and you agree to promise above? Ans. Yes I know. Following is the undertaking given by D.R.Watts in his own handwriting: I do apologize to the court for any violation of the law of the country which I am charged with. I do not wish in any way to violate any laws of India. If the court is pleased to accept my apology and grant lenience on humanitarian ground, I will deport from India within twenty four hours. Further I will not come to India any longer in religious purpose, nor will I involve in religious activities in the name of Visa specified for other purpose. Signed D.R.Watts C/O Souther Asian Division, Mathigiri, HCF, Hosur, TN-635 110 Local address furnished: C/O Rajan Samuel, Principal, SDA School, Kuttapuzha, Tiruvilla, Pathanamthitta District, Kerala. Permanent Address in USA David Ronald Watts 1901 Ednor Road, Silver Spring, MD USA -- The above D.R.Watts attended the programme held in my school, Seventh Day Adventist Higher Secondary School, Kuttapuzha, Tiruvilla, Pathanamthitta, Keral on my invitation and he inauguraed the new block of (building) of my school and he addressed the gathering extending his falicitation on the Pesident of Southern Asia Division of SDA today at 4-30 P.M. (17-2-2005, Thursday). And I did not know that he was involving religious activities in Kerala with a “B” Type Visa. Signed Rajan Samuel Present Address Rajan Samuel Principal, SDA Higher Secondary School, Kuttapuzha P.O Tiruvilla-3, Kerala Permanent Address Rajan Samuel TC 21/1246 Joy Cottage Nedumcaud Karamana P.O., Trivandrum –2 Residence Rajan Samuel, Kochiyil, Bethel Junction, Kuttapuzha P.O. Tiruvilla –3, Kerala. Note: The Visa of the above D.R.Watts verified by the Additional District Magistrate, Sri B.Mohanan in my presence. I have personally verified the above Visa. The entire excercise of having been taken evidence in the case, depositions of D.R.Watts recorded and examination done in my presence from the beginning to the end. And D.R.Watts put his signature above with the details of his address and C/O Mr.Rajan Samuel, Principal, SDA School, above in my presence. Mr.Rajan Samuel also recorded his above statement in my presence. Signed T.S.Basheer Executive Magistrate, Tehsildar, Tiruvilla. Note II (in Malayalam) – confirming the above – Signed Anthony John, Additional Sub Inspector of Police Tiruvilla. Now, having given this written undertaking to the Executive Magistrate, Tiruvilla, D.R.Watts continues to stay in India. And in the 106 days since then, has been instrumental in converting more than 31,800 (estimate 2003 rate of conversion as per SDA’s own admission) people to Christianity. Does this surprise anybody? Here is the text of the written undertaking given by Rajan Samuel, the Principal of the SDAHSS, Kuttapuzha, Tiruvilla on 17/02/2003 UNDERTAKING I, Rajan Samuel, Principal, S.D.A.H.S.S., Kuttapuzha, Tiruvilla, residing at Kochiyal, Bethel Junction, Kuttapuzha, Tiruvilla, hereby undertake the following: 1. As has been directed, I will personally ensure that D.R.Watts, President, Southern Asia Division of S.D.A. will leave India within 24 hours on his illegal involvement in religious activities in India. 2. I will inform the A.D.M.Pathanamthitta, Tehsildar and Executive Magistrate, Tiruvilla and Additional Sub Inspector of Police, Tiruvilla Sri Antony John in person and also in writing the date and time of leaving of D.R.Watts and other details as the place of departure, flight of departure and Airport of his departure within 24 hours of D.R.Watts leaving the country. This undertaking will be part of my statement recorded by myself in the connected papers of enquiry today. On any violation, I agree that the undertaking both civil and criminal proceedings can be initiated against me. I will be personally held responsible for any act of ommission or commission in this regard. Signed Rajan Samuel Principal S.D.A.H.S.S. Kuttapuzha P.O. Tiruvilla-3, Pathanamthitta Kerala Signed in my presence Signature of T.A.Basheer Executive Magistrate, Tehsildar, Tiruvilla Signed in my presence Antony John, Additional S.I. Of Police, Tiruvilla P.S. Attested by Sri Mohanan Additional District Magistrate, Collectorate, Pathanamthitta. --- Ron Watts makes a deposition. Makes a handwritten apology in which he undertakes to leave the country in 24 hours, in presence of honourable witnesses. More importantly the deposition is made in the presence of the Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta to the Executive Magistrate, Tahsildar, Thiruvilla and in the presence of the Sub Inspector of Police, Thiruvilla. The Principal of the SDA HSS takes the criminal and civil responsibility of ensuring the departure of Ron Watts. And what does Ron Watts do once he is out of Kerala? He goes back to Hosur and shoots a fax, the very next day of his deposition, to the Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta, The Secretary, Home Department, Kerala, The Director General of Police, Kerala and Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta that he was coerced and forced to make the deposition. Let us get back to the chain of events: Following the deposition by Ron Watts on 17th Feb, 2005, the District Collector of Pathanamthitta, Kerala wrote to the Personal Secretary, Chief Minister of Kerala as follows: No 14036/2005 dated 26/02/2005 – Collectorate, Pathanamthitta. From The District Collector, Pathanamthitta. To The Private Secretary to the Hon’ble Chief Minister, Kerala, Thiruvananthapuram. Sir, Sub: Complaints against Pastor D.R.Watts-a Canadian citizen in India with Business Visa engaged in religious activities-presented in Pathanamthitta District-Verification of his travel documents including VISA-final report – submitted – regarding Ref: 1. Petition dated 10-02-2005 of Dr. K.J.Moses, Secretary-Southern Asia Division of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, Post Box 2- HCF, Hosur-635110, Tamil Nadu. 2. Petition dated 16-02-2005 of Vellayani Sundara Raju, Advocate, High Court of Kerala, II Floor, Edasseri Building, Cochin-31 3. Deposition of Pastor D.R.Watts dated 17-02-2005 before the Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta 4. Passport and Visa Particulars of Pastor D.R.Watts verified on 17-02-2005 by Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta and attested by Tahsildar and Executive Magistrate, Thiruvilla 5. Undertaking given by Sri S.Rajan Samuel, Principal SDA HSS, Kuttapuzha dated 18-02-2005 6. Fax Message of Pastor D.R.Watts, President, Southern Asia Division of Seventh Day Adventist, HCF, Hosur addressed to Additional Magistrate also dated 18-02-2005 7. Reply of Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta by Fax to Pastor D.R.Watts dated 18-02-2005 8. Interim Report dated 22-02-2005 of the Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta to the Government As per written complaints referred to 1st and 2nd due notice was issued to D.R.Watts, a Canadian citizen on 17-02-2005 at the Seventh Day Adventist Higher Secondary School, Kuttupuzha, Thiruvilla of this district where he came for inaugurating the new school building. He appeared before me at my camp place at Taluk Office, Thiruvilla at 6-10 P.M. that day. I conducted detailed enquiry including verification of his Passport and other travel documents in the presence of the Tahsildar and Executive Magistrate, Thiruvilla and the Additional Sub Inspector of Police, Thiruvilla Police Station. In his deposition D.R.Watts conceded that he has been violating the laws relating to VISA by functioning as President of a religious denomination named the Southern Asia Division of Seventh Day Adventist which has been engaging in spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ and thereby converting people to its fold after giving them baptisms. Evidence was taken from D.R.Watts in short notice as there was every chance for his leaving the district. And he has admitted while taking evidence that as per his schedule he had to attend a religious meeting of the SDA at Kottarakkara that day after his programme at SDA HSS, Kuttapuzha, Thiruvilla. D.R.Watts stated that he has been the President of the Southern Asia Division of the SDA with its Headquarters at Hosur, Tamil Nadu and the duty assigned to him has been the administration of SDA Schools, Collages, Hospitals and Churches under his jurisdiction and he was unaware of what type of VISA he holds. Then, his visa was verified and found that his visa is “B” type. He is a Canadian citizen and his Passpost number is B.C.175802. Thee are endorsements and limitations mentioned in his passport as follows: “This passport is valid for all countries unless otherwise endorsed (subject to any visa or other entry regulations of countries to be visited)”. The above endorsements and limitations are to be strictly complied with, by the holder of the passport as and when he visits any country other than his. He has admitted that he involved in religious activities in India as he was unaware of the guidelines and instructions of the Foreigners Act 1946 of which admission the first half is true and the other half is untrue and totally wonder striking and beyond all logic. Further he stated that he has been receiving funds from Silverspring USA in US Dollars and he did not get any permissioin of the Reserve Bank of India for exchange of the Dollars. To my following questions he answered the affirmative: (Q) Do you know that you cannot do any religious work in India with a “B” type Visa? (A) I do accept (Q) Do you know that you have violated Foreigners Act and Rules by virtue of the above facts? (A) Yes He further admitted that violations of the laws governing foreigners and break of his above promise of leaving the country would lead him behind the bars. Therefore, he apologized in writing before me and other witnesses like the Tahsildar and Executive Magistrate, Thiruvilla and the Additional Sub Inspector of Police, Thiruvilla that he has been involving in religious activities in India with a “B” Type Business Visa and requsted to give him lenience on humanitarian grounds by stating that he would himself deport from India within 24 hours and he would not come back to India any longer for religious purposes. Nor he would involve in any religious activities in the name of Visas specified for other purposes. The above written assurance and promise of D.R.Watts was endorsed by responsible officials as the Tahsildar and Executive Magistrate, Thiruvilla and the Principal of the SDA HSS, Kuttapuzha, Thiruvilla as per reference 5th cited that he would see that D.R.Watts would deport from India as has been undertaken by both. The above undertaking was not fulfilled by the Principal of SDA HSS, Kuttapuzha on the advice of D.R.Watts and his associates in Kerala, as has reliably been understood. Therefore I served a notice to the Principal for him to appear before me on 23-02-2005 to explain in person for not complying with his undertaking. As he requested to give him a day’s time to appear before me, I granted time for him to be present for the hearing on 24-02-2005 and he was present and he was heard. He stated tht D.R.Watts left Kerala and he was promised by D.R.Watts that he would be leaving the country within 24 hours and the Principal would collect D.R.Watts’ whereabout in India, if not he has not alreay been left and the matter would be reported within three days. As the issue involved in is a very serious issue pertaining to the Security of the Nation I faxed a preliminary report on 22-02-2005 to the Government together with some documents to the Private Secretary to Hon’ble Chief Minister. On 18-02-2005 I received a faxed complaint from D.R.Watts levelling several false allegations against me to make believe others that he gave evidence admitting his guilt and wrote and gave assurance to me on 17-02-2005, were all on the basis of force and coersion applied on him. This allegation is totally false and incorrect which establishes that D.R.Watts as a cunning villian goes to any extent to say and do false things in wrongful ways. The said fax message referred to 6th was addressed to the Secretary Home Department, Director General of Police and Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta. After perusing the above message I faxed my reply to that in the very same day itself to D.R.Watts as per reference 7th cited. Subsequently I issued due notices to the petitioners to appear before me for taking evidence including documents if any to prove their case. In response to the notice the 2nd petitioner appeared before me on 23-02-2005. He was heard-His statements were recorded. He produced six documents. According to the 2nd petitioner, D.R.Watts is in fact a danger to the Nation and a cancerous cell embedded in the spiritual body of the SDA denomination in India. The 2nd petitioner has established through recordical and oral evidence that D.R.Watts has been indulging in the business of conversion of comman man to christianity by offering petty cash concessions and also through allurements to give employment to educated persons in the denominational schools and hospitals functioning in India, sending youth for education at the Spicer Memorial College, Pune and also for arranging marriages between young men and women belonging to SDA. He further stated that when D.R.Watts came to India and assumed charge of the office of the President of the Southern Asia Division of the SDA in 1997, it had a membership of 2,25,000 persons only for its 103 years of existence. But within a span of 5 years due to the illegal and unethical methods adopted by D.R.Watts and his agents the SDA membership has shot up to 7 lakhs. Within a span of 5 years, 5 lakhs baptisms he made and thereby 5 lakh conversions. Document no.5 produced by the 2nd petitioner establishes the above facts. The 2nd petitioner invited my attention to document numbers 7 to 9 and stated that even in 1997 the activities of D.R.Watts were strongly condemned by VHP leaders like Sri Giriraj Kishore and Sri Ashok Singhal. Naming D.R.Watts, Sri Giriraj Kishore went to that extent of stating that D.R.Watts was named as a CIA agent, bringing huge amount of foreign funds through ISI Pasistan and the amount so brought, a portion that had been given for terrorist activities in the North-East. Sri Singhal alleged on 15th December, 1997 (India Today) that D.R.Watts brought 700 Crores of Rupees for effecting conversions in India. The 2nd petitioner further stated that in June 2002, 250 villagers of Madurai district of Tamilnadu were got baptised and got converted to christianity by D.R.Watts and his agents which prompted the Tamilnadu Government to enact the Anti-conversion Law in Tamilnadu. It is further pointed out by the 2nd petitioner on the basis of document no:10 that batch and batch of foreigners were brought to India by D.R.Watts and his wife on tourist visa and engaged them in evangelism in various cities in different states and converted huge numbr of persons to Christianity and thereby caused severe communal tensions among various sections of Hindu society. According to 2nd petitioner the SDA in India is the only Christian denomination making budgetory provision and fixing targets for baptisms and thereby conversion. Document No:1 established that as many as 40 foreigners came and conducted evangelism in various centres of Indian States including Kerala (Pathanamthitta District) and 8 other places in Kerala and effected large number of conversion. According to the 2nd Petitioner, under the leadership and guidance of D.R.Watts as many as 8 lakhs of persons were converted to Christianity mainly from Tenaly, Ongole, Nalgonda etc., of Andhra Pradesh, Kerala, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu. In document no: 3, a paper presented by the Secretary of the Southern Asia Division in the Pastors Conference of SDA held a Kottarakkara from 25th to 28th January, 2005, is mentioned that more than 500,000 baptisms were effected by D.R.Watts from 1997 to 30th September, 2004. It has been stated by the 2nd Petitioner that on the basis of various and serious violations committed by D.R.Watts, several complaints were preferred as documents numbers 5 and 7 by outsiders (general public) requesting to deport D.R.Watts and his wife from India and not to reniew the Visa of D.R.Watts on its expiry on 01-11-2003. It is stated that the 2nd petitioner along with 6 others preferred a joint representation to the Hon’ble Chief Minister of Tamilnadu requesting to deport D.R.Watts and not to renew his visa for the period thereafter. But due to the money power of D.R.Watts nothing has materialized, he stated. He also stated that Dr.K.J.Moses, the Secretary of the Southern Asia Division of the SDA said that D.R.Watts has spent Rs.1 Crore and 30 Lakhs as bribe to many people including bureaucrats for his safe retention in India. It is therefore the 2nd petitioner filed WP © No: 33054/2003 before the Hon’ble High Court of Madras. The Court but asked the 2nd petitioner to withdraw the case by order dated 5-04-2004 copy of which is marked as document no:4. The court gave liberty to the 2nd petitioner to move before the appropriate forum by appropriate petition. It was stated by the 2nd petitioner that though he filed representations to the concerned authorites of the Central Government, with necessary documents, D.R.Watts men influenced all such authorities offering money and all the attempts of the 2nd petitioner went in futile. It was under that circumstance on knowing the arrrival of D.R.Watts in Pathanamthitta District on 17-02-2005, the 2nd petitioner preferred a detailed representation against D.R.Watts with documents. It is reported that the first petitioner in this case is none other than the Secretary of the Southern Asia Division of the SDA who categorically asserted that D.R.Watts committed fraud on the Constitution. It is the authentic account of D.R.Watts’ activities in India which is duly established by the voluntary admission made by D.R.Watts. According to the 2nd petitioner who is a lawyer, practising in the Hon’ble Highest Judicial Forum in the State that forcible conversions made by D.R.Watts are against the provisions of Article 25(1) and (2) of the Constitution of India and D.R.Watts has functioned against his Visa norms which acts are highly illegal and punishable. He has also requested to take action against 5 pastors named Shri J.Titto, Shri Pothen Kurien, Shri Babu Judson, Shri S.Stanley and Shri K.J.Varghese under Sections 13 and 14 of the Foreigners Act. As pastors and functionaries of Kerala they all supported the illegal activities of D.R.Watts. In the light of the various facts and circumstances of the case as above it is reported that D.R.Watts is a Security concern for the Nation that the Government may take necessary actions according to law against D.R.Watts and to deport him from India as he has intentionally and deliberately violaged all the Visa norms as also already admitted by him that he has involved in religious activities including religious conversions in India. It is also requested to take up the matter with the Government of India in view of the National Security that no foreigner endangers the country by such acts of traitory. Yours faithfully, Signed B.Mohanan Additional District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta How is it that he is allowed a free stay in India, despite the above deposition and: 1. A deportation order against him dated 05/09/2003 Letter No: 3608/A1/2003-1 given by Tmt R.Vasantha, B.A., Under Secratary to Government, Public (Foreigners) Department, Secretariat, Chennai-600 009 addressed to the Collector of Dharmapuri and received by the collector on 12 Sept, 2003. The Deportation Order is as follows: Sub: Foreigners – Leave India Notice- David Ronald Watts and his wife Mrs. Dorathy Mary Watts Ref: From the Government of India, MHA, New Delhi, Letter No: 17016/3/98/ F.VII dated 2/7/2003. I am directed to invite attention to the references cited and to state that the Government of India have considered the case of the above foreigner and found not possible to grant further extension of stay in India. They have also instructed that they may be asked to leave India within 15 days (fifteen days) on receipt of this letter. I am also to state the above foreigners are still living in Dharmapuri and getting extension of resident every year. I am therefore directed to request you to take action accordingly and to intimate the date of departure of the above foreigners immediately to the Government for onward transmission to the Government of India. This may be treated as “Most Urgent” Copy to: The Under Secretary to Government of India, MHA, Foreiners FVII Section, Lok Nayak Bhavan, Khan Market, New Delhi The Superintendent of Police, Dharmapuri Individuals Signed Under Secretary to Government Based on the above orders, the District Collector of Dharmapuri, Sri M.A.Siddique wrote to the Superintendent of Police, Dharmapuri District – Letter No: 59073/03 (C5) dated 24/09/03. This order is issued in Tamil and the gist of it is that the District Collector brings to reference the Government order and directs the SP, Dharmapuri to deport the two foreign nationals within the time stipulated by the order and send an action taken report to him. The Superintendent of Police, Dharmapuri District wrote on 20/10/2003 – B1/1066/BCAP/2003 to the Inspector of Police, Mathigiri (Hosur) instructing him to act as per the copy of the Collector’s order attached. The Inspector of police was directed to ensure deportation of the two foreign nationals, D.R.Watts and Dorothy Watts within 7 days from the date of receipt of the order. It is a cruel joke that all these orders carry the note: MOST URGENT. Watts continues to stay. Converting at the rate of 300 people per day to christianity (conversion figures of 2003, currently it is approximately 500 people per day) If anybody has serious doubts if the business of Watts is other than conversions, take a look of the text of the letter written by the General Secretary of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, Southern Asia Division. This letter is addressed to the District Collector and The District Magistrate, Pathanamthitta District, Kerala State and is dated February, 10, 2005. His letter will reveal why D.R.Watts was grilled in Thiruvilla. The text is reproduced below: Dear Sir, I would like to inform you the arrival of Pastor D.R.Watts, the President of the Southern Asia Division of Seventh Day Adventist, to the SDA Higher Secondary School at Kuttapuzha, Tiruvalla, Pathanamthitta District on 17 February, 2005 for inaugurating our new School Building there. Pastor D.R.Watts is a Canadian citizen and is a Business Visa holder. Pastor Watts has been engaged in Evangelism mainly converting people to Christianity from Andhra Pradesh. For evangelical work Pastor Watts used to bring batch and batch of Foreign Missionaries to India on Tourist Visas. Our Division has no business and Pastor Watts also not doing any business here. He is the President of our division looking after the missionary works against his Visa norms. Pastor Watts’ target of making the membership of the division to 1 million in 2005 is almost attained. Though quantity of the membership in the division has enormously increased but the quality of it we lost due to the reason of adopting unethical methods for achieving the goal. Many complaints were made by individuals and organisations against Pastor Watts hushed of all those complaints. Our division needs an Indian leadership to function the SDA Mission in India like that of all the other Christian Denominations. Pastor Watts’ presence in India is a great hindrance for the Division to meet its privilege. It is therefore requested to enquire into the travel documents of Pastor Watts when he arrives at Kuttapuzha on 17th Feb, 2005 and deal with him for the best interest of our country. Sincerely, Dr. K.J.Moses, Secretary D.R.Watts flouts all the laws of our land with impunity. He continues to receive the patronage of Antonia Maino and Jayaa, the Centre and the State. And with Y Samuel Rajasekhara Reddy going one up in asking him to construct a church in his farm land for the 350 neo-converts, Watts sure is on cloud nine. AP has witnessed the maximum conversions, Ongole, Tanuku and Nellore are just becoming christian towns. The villages are already lost to churchianity. And not too long ago, did we hear the ladies saying: All are equal before law. It is very clear that Jaya and Antonia will quote the law when hounding Hindus, Hindu institutions like the Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham and the venerated Acharyas. But the Law conveniently becomes an ass that it really is when it comes to taking action against christians. All are equal before law. Say that again. Links: Take a look at the number of foreign proselytizers and the details of their itenerary:'02%20&%20'03/India-4_Sep_9-27_2003.htm'02%20&%20'03/India-1_Jan_10-25.htm'02%20&%20'03/India-2_Mar_28-Apr_12_2003.htm'02%20&%20'03/India-3_May_9-24_2003.htm To view the documents presented in this article:

Posted by: Bharatvarsh Jun 7 2005, 04:24 AM

G.Subramaniam can't we do something to chase this b@st@rd Watt's out of India, I am from Andhra myself and it pains me greatly that my people are being converted by the thousands to the Christ cult. Can someone take this to court or something or organise a protest like they did in Bangalore during Hinn's visit last year.

Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 7 2005, 05:45 AM

Well you can start by donating to Chinnajeeyar etc

Posted by: Mudy Jun 8 2005, 09:50 PM

QUOTE name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=82&page=16 Evangelists tour US on the pretext of RSS attack This is ‘spring time’ for pastors who visit the US. Facing the fury of the Hindus whom they try to convert, the number of Protestant pastors who flee to America is increasing day-by-day. In this race the pastors from Kerala lead considerably. A network of Christian deceit centres in Pattanamthitta now stand exposed. All that is required of the Protestant pastors is to hold an Indian passport registering their names in their office. Rest is taken care of by the American Church. Protestant members who wish to visit America should possess the skill to act well. They should be ready to assert that they were subjected to assaults by the RSS. Even while crying piteously, they should be ready to say, “In our country (in Kerala) a lot of disturbance is taking place. RSS people are killing Christian missionaries.” It seems that the American Church pours a lot of money the moment these pastors announce that they are ready to work for Jesus Christ even while sacrificing their life against the RSS. When the pastor returns back to his native place in Kerala, he quietly claims that he does not know who Jesus is. To a question whether the RSS volunteers had assaulted him, he decides to hide the truth by saying ‘no’. It is learnt that since the last one year, 600 Keralites have toured round America and collected crores of rupees under the false pretext of RSS attack. They now live peacefully in Kerala, having purchased property and built houses. It is learnt that there are commission agents in Pattanamthitta and Kottayam districts, who arrange to send such persons to USA. There are reports that they collect money from the Americans by shedding crocodile tears in the streets of America even while they insult the RSS, Hindu Dharma and India. The silence of the Church against such anti-Hindu activities of these people has naturally become a cause of suspicion. (Hosadigantha, a Kannada daily from Mangalore)

Posted by: acharya Jun 12 2005, 10:06 PM

The key questions raised are addressed by me in the following way: ********** 1. Is there a book around which all hindus can get organized ?> Answer: Bhagavadgita and Patanjali Yoga sutra serve this purpose. This can accommodate the faith, diversities of faith and no faith in a god. This is the line of thought provided by Kautilyas Artha shastra. 'Dharma samsthapanaarthaya' does not mean establishing one faith regime or one family regime or one party regime. ******************** 2. How state should handle any specific faith which negates all other faith traditions? Answer: This is a matter of Public Policy. The faith groups become influencing factors in state craft, especially in democracy (and even other wise) through their MONEY MISSIONARY POWER which makes them have an effective over reach on society relative to the State administration. The public policy should ensure that NO FAITH GROUP becomes a threat or second source of power to the STATE PUBLIC POLICY- JUSTICE ADMINISTRATION through the money power raised through religious charitable donations or other wise enterprises. Religion and Faith should remain within their bounds NOT coming in conflict with STATE. In the same way, STATE shall NOT do any thing that touches the religious sensitivity and allow any religion/faith group to transcend the Public Policy guidelines. These guidelines are not the nuiances of the Supreme court arguments. These are the sensitivities of the ordinary common man and woman in the state. While faith groups shall be given all the freedom for preaching in a normal way as permissible for any other group, exuberance of money power, show, imbalance through coercive means (education, health, job, money) shall be made a strictly criminal offence punishable by capital punishment, irrespective of faith denomination.Faith change shall be stopped as a identifier for demography and representation. That means Each individual is a citizen with a vote. But the faith of the individual is NOT an ISSUE for consideration in any aspect of PUBLIC POLICY. The talk of 'years of suppression' and the like are to be handled and remedied in a different way, not compromising on the quality of state services and administration. Moral turpitude of faith groups and leaders of faith groups, very specifically, shall be treated under public policy as a an offence to be tried as a matter of public trail and also as a religious trail within that faith, concurrently. Indian administration and public policy has been guilty in allowing this imbalance of insurgence of intolerant faith raising to create a national cultural threat and imbalance. The second part of the guilt is actively and covertly supporting such activities ( many times by political vested interests), which is no less than an act of treason, which needs to be tried under martial law . *************** 3. Separation of state and church This does not mean that State is favorable to one faith-one church than other; or selectively apply the rules amongst different faiths due to political exigencies. If media thinks that they have done a wonderful job in imbalanced highlighting of the faith scenarios under the name of the 'secular democratic norms', the media is equally guilty in having failed to protect the interest of the 'common man'. Now who is this common man who needs to be protected? Is it the 'stock brokers' who need to maintain a bottom line of stock value and return on investment? Is it the circulation managers who have to keep the bottom line of numbers? Is it the editorial- columnists who write for the elite at the top, knowing fully well that that 80% of the population of 'common man' are 'English ignorant and media indifferent for center page editorials'? The cyber wars and e-mail petitions make no impact in a place where the basic necessity of electricity is not there, forget about computer and ISP and phone and the like; and on the top of it the computer literacy! The War needs to be fought on the ground realities of the battle field as well as the strategy making tables. Each to be fought on its own merits. In this case, the attack on field is being addressed by defense on the table! This is not the right strategy. *************** The action point therefore, is : First get one team/leader -one banner -One goal-one (set of )books under which ALL the Hindus (INDIANS, NRI's and Practicing Hindus) fit in. This is the job of the strategist. And with that wage your field war. There is NOT all the time in the world. Choice is either we all do this in a frame of time and sharing resources OR Go to same hellish end all at different times! If you don't make the choice, Time/or some body else has already made/makes the choice for You. New dimensions of secularism Tuesday February 8 2005 10:13 IST S.Gurumurthy Why did the Karnataka Chief Minister and other seculars proudly participate in the mass proselytising event of Benny Hinn, who abused Hindus and Hindu Gods? How is it that E. Ahmed of the Muslim League is 'secular' and L.K Advani of the BJP 'communal'? Why is the Kanchi Matham being hounded while the raid on the Islamic religious school at Nadwa to catch ISI insurgents was called off and Central ministers sent to apologise to Ali Mian for the raid? How is it that 'secular' intellectuals are asking for the release of the Godhra accused and none of them is bothered about Vijayendra Saraswathi in jail? How come even a Congress chief minister like A.K. Antony could not stand the pseudo-'secular' polity and was forced to charge the organised minorities for perverting secularism? Why..? How...? These and similar questions repeatedly arise. But no one cares to answer them. You want answers to these questions? Read on. For 'secular' India, secularism is not divorced between the state and religion. For them secularism is exclusively for the benefit of the minorities. Extend it, secularism means pampering the minorities. Go further, it includes being allergic to the majority. That is, unless one explicitly appeases the minorities and is overtly allergic to Hindus, one is not 'secular' enough. How did secularism acquire these new dimensions? Simple: it became a tool of politics. Politics is all about uniting the supporters and dividing the opponents. In Indian politics, uniting a minority for votes is 'secular'. It is 'secular' to divide the majority into this or that caste for votes. Consequently, uniting the majority is anti-'secular'. And organising the majority is fundamentalist. In contrast, protecting organised minority is a 'secular' duty. This is the high point of 'secular' India. A novice in Christian history would know that secularism originated in Christendom as a rule of separation of the Christian church and the Christian state. But how come what started off as an issue of Christian church versus the Christian state has become an issue of majority versus minority? Now we need to trespass into some history - not an interesting subject for many. With Martin Luther's revolt against the 'Catholic Church' arrived the 'Protestant Church'. This weakened the Papacy and eventually broke up the Holy Roman Empire. The broken pieces of the Empire, by permutation and combination, became the modern nation-states in Europe. But these separated nation states also owed allegiance to Christ and Bible. These developments were all intra-Christian, within Christendom. No other religion was in the picture. The Church had ensured that no indigenous faith survived after Christianity took charge of Europe. Till this point no one had heard of secularism. It was only when the national Christian churches clashed with the national Christian states for primacy that a formula had to be worked out. That formula was that the Christian State would prevail in worldly issues that were considered to be 'secular' in Christian theology. In the Abrahamic world all matters pertaining to the 'other world' were sacred, and the worldly issues 'secular'. This was how secularism was born. It separated what Christianity regarded as 'sacred' from what it classified as 'secular'. But the common denominator was the Christian theology and what it certified as sacred and 'secular'. In the European model, the Christian state was not actually creed-neutral. It was neutrality between the Christian state and the Christian church within Christianity. Secularism mandated that the Christian church would not interfere in matters of the Christian state. It was the advent of democracy, not secularism, which gave the survival space non-Christian faiths in Christendom. The Christian states ruled by Christian monarchs began clashing with the people when the people began demanding more rights. This is where individualism began conflicting with monarchies. The clashes triggered movements for democracy. It was democracy that really shaped the institution of secularism as later understood in the modern West. With individualism becoming the supreme institution, the society in the West lost its legitimacy. So religion became a personal affair, an individual right. Still, secularism in the West was an all-Christian affair. It was an intra-Christian discipline. The state stood neutral between the Christian church and Christians, whether faithfuls or heretics. But democracy offered space for atheists and agnostics. Added to that was emigration from the rest of the world which turned the Christian West multi-religious and multi-racial. This brought in the issue of religious minorities. But in the West the religion of the majority, the Christian faith, was organised through the Churches of various denominations, around the Bible and Christ. So the secularism of Christendom stood between the organised majority and equally organised minorities, both being essentially Abrahamic in character. But here in India, while the minorities are organised around their book and their prophets, the majority faith, the Hindu faith, is totally unorganised. In fact, it is not organisable at all. With 33 crore Gods to be propitiated one can understand how impossible it is to organise Hinduism. So we have organised minorities on the one hand and unorganised - why un-organisable - majority on the other. With the result secularism as understood in India protects the organised minorities. It leaves the unorganised majority completely unprotected and undefended. Vote bank politics made it worse. Since the minorities are organised they become readymade vote banks, mere ballot papers. But the Hindu majority does not behave or vote as majority. This is so even on issues of faith as the divergent faiths and Gods within Hinduism makes it difficult for them to unite like the minorities. 'Secular' India denies to the majority the rights it reserves for the majority. So secularism in essence treats the 'secular' state as a majoritarian institution. In Christendom, the majority is Christian any way. And they are also organised additionally. But, 'secular' India will not allow the Hindus to unite. It will snuff out any attempt to organise the Hindus, label those who attempt it as communalists and fundamentalists. But, unless Hindus get organised, 'secular' India will not allow Hinduism to survive. Then, will 'secular' India not do to Hinduism what Christianity did to Roman paganism? The Encyclopedia of Britannica says that Rome did not know how to handle Christianity that negated all other faiths. The inability of Roman Pagans to handle an intolerant faith, as the encyclopedia repeatedly refers to Christianity, caused the collapse of the Roman Paganism. 'Secular' India's intolerance to Hindus is similar. The Hindus have to handle 'secular' India like the minorities do. That is, the Hindus have to get organised and create a majoritarian regime. This is a rule of survival for them. And for the survival of a faith-neutral state itself! The question is, will they do it in spite of 'secular' India's hostility?

Posted by: acharya Jun 13 2005, 10:50 AM

Four US nationals to be deported for violating visa rules Mumbai, June. 13 (PTI): Four US nationals, who were assaulted by a group of people in western suburb of Malad on Saturday night on suspicion that they were Christian missionaries involved in conversion, would be deported for violating visa rules, police said today. Police suspect that the four US nationals had come to Mumbai with some specific mission and "their visit to Malad to address a congregation did not appear to be as simple as it meets the eye". The US nationals, Philip Allan, Clover Edward, Richard Jenal and an unidentified person, were questioned by the Special Branch sleuths today, before police decided to deport them for violation of visa rules. The action came after the local police station in Malad submitted a report to the Special Branch. "The four US nationals will be deported by the next available flight for violation of visa conditions," Additional Police Commissioner (Special Branch), Bipin Bihari, told PTI without elaborating further. A Special Branch official said that Philip Allan, one of the four US nationals, has a multiple-entry visa and frequently visited India and neighbouring Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. "He is not a business traveller and therefore his frequent visits to India and adjoining countries raises suspicion in the backdrop of the Malad incident," the official said. Police said the role of a school teacher from Malad, who had arranged the congregation in which the US nationals had participated, was also being probed. Apart from these four US nationals, there were four more US nationals who were present at the congregation, police said adding that they, however, left India yesterday. "We would have questioned them too, but laxity on the part of the local police helped them to leave the country," a Special Branch official said. The official said that prima facie, it could not be substantiated whether the four US nationals belonged to any religious organisation or had visited Mumbai to propagate their religion. "Yet, there is something fishy about their visit which needs to be probed further," the official said. The US nationals were attending a congregation on Saturday night, when a group of people allegedly assaulted them. Two persons were arrested in this connection but were released by a local court later. Special Branch officials, however, denied that VHP or Shiv Sena members were involved in the assault. "This appears to be a spontaneous reaction from the Malvani residents, who thought the congregation was meant for conversions," police said.

Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 14 2005, 05:24 PM Conversions:Some are above law- Part 2 What Dorothy Watts has to say on their "Business of Conversions" In Pope John Paul II’s address to the Sixth Plenary Assembly of the Federation of Asian Bishops' Conferences (FABC), Manila (15 January 1995), 11: Insegnamenti XVIII, 1 (1995), 159, he said: "just as in the first millennium the Cross was planted on the soil of Europe, and in the second on that of the Americas and Africa, we can pray that in the Third Christian Millennium a great harvest of faith will be reaped in this vast and vital continent" (Asia). Although Pope is the head of the corporate that I would like to call as the “Catholic Religious Business Inc.,” fondly known as the Vatican Empire, conversions has long since ceased to be the monopoly of the Catholic church. Smaller “Business” players have entered the fray with brute money and well cultivated disdain for the Native’s laws, culture and belief. With such new peddlers of faith in the global arena targeting the shrinking space of the “heathens”, the well established catholic business interests in the new market segments takes a beating as poaching surfaces within Christian denominations. And there is a hectic competition for the poor Native souls. These lesser denominations zealously usurp the new mantra of the catholic era “harvest of faith”. The fight for increasing head count of sheep for their shepherd, begins within various church denominations, upping their aggression for new souls to harvest. We are now aware that Ron Watts has admitted that he does not know what business he has in India, having entered into this Dharma Bhoomi on a Business Visa. Ron Watts has selective Amnesia. Let us remind Ron and Dorothy Watts, what business we know they are doing in India. Ron Watts has lied to the Executive Magistrate in his deposition at Tiruvilla on 17-02-2005. I am baring his proclaimed innocence as nothing but audocious lies. In the following article, Dorothy Watts highlights their agenda and part of their blue print for effecting religious conversions in India. This exposes their plans. And how meticulously they stirve to achieve their goals of “harvest of faith”. This broad corporate plan would do any Sr Corporate Executive, proud. Look at how they identify their target audience. How they define their goals (in this case baptisms, which is an euphemism for conversions) How effectively they put a marketing plan in place, how they put a marketing team together, how effectively they delegate the work, How in the first place they identify the village “leaders” to “take care” of them so they don’t get into any trouble with the “rowdies” (read Hindus trying to thwart conversions) Inducements. Plain and simple. Fraud on gullible very poor Hindus, with the complicity of the village leaders, who they take “care” to bring the required numbers of heifer to the chopping block. On the Canadian University College site – under Current News, Dorothy Watts wrote as follows: The 25-Village Program --by Dorothy Watts In the 1970’s while president of the South India Union, D.R. Watts began praying for some way to reach the nearly 600 000 villages of India with the gospel at a faster rate than was presently possible. Calls were coming to enter villages; but at the current rate of entering new places it would take hundreds of years to reach all of the villages of India. Then, too, he was concerned about the difficulty new Christians had when accepting Christ as it often meant leaving their village and family and starting anew somewhere else without the traditional support of the extended family. "Lord, there must be some way to overcome all of these obstacles", he prayed. As he prayed about the matter and considered the Indian family and village system structure, he began to see a way to work within the culture (meaning: no instant cultural shocks, get as closer to their culture so it is easy to dupe and substitute with the christian thoughts with brief passage of time) That idea developed into The 25-Village Program and The 10-Village Program. The plan was this: Five sets of laymen, going out two by two under the direction of a regular pastor, and explore the villages in an area of a district. The idea was to find 25 villages in close proximity to each other, where the people were of the same family groups and castes that would enable them to have social relations and find marriage partners. After the 25 villages were chosen, the teams visited in each village, approaching first the leaders of the village, and inviting them to send two of their leaders to a 10-day seminar to be held at a nearby resort area. The leaders would come at our expense and be housed and fed and we would share with them the concepts of better living that we were willing to share in their villages if they invited us. But they were told, "We don’t want to come unless it is something that you approve of. So please come and listen to what we have to say, and see what you think. Then if you want us, we will visit your village. And if you don’t want us, we won’t come to you village." (This is the standard game plan. These folks know the innocence and the traditional hospitality of such village people and play their cards very well). The 50 leaders then came together, and for ten days they had seminars from early morning until evening, going over all of the doctrines of the Christian faith. By the end of the meetings most of the leaders would be asking if the end of the meetings could baptize them. "No", the reply would be. "You go back and share these truths with the people in your village (now that you are sufficiently brainwashed). Then invite us to come and hold some meetings for your people. You must find the place, and guarantee there will be no disturbances in the meetings". Twenty-five evangelistic campaigns are then held simultaneously. As a result, there would be 25 new congregations raised up with 50 to 100 members in each village. Now the converts had relatives and extended family in 24 other villages where they could go to find marriage partners and for the support they would need in their new way of life. We found that seldom with this plan was there much interference from rowdies because the leaders had given their pledge to take care of things and help us with the meetings. (Simple, They have been purchased) The results were amazing. Instead of a section entering three or four new places in a year, they were now raising up 25 new congregations twice a year. Using this method, the Kamataka Section doubled its membership in one year’s time in the late 1970’s. ( great harvest, indeed) When D.R. Watts returned to India in 1997, this plan was again revived and also modified to accommodate The 10-Village Program which in many cases is easier to fund and to manage. In 1998 there were 17 Ten Village Programmes conducted in India and 170 new congregations were established, and 9 337 were baptized from those 17 programs. In 1999 forty such programs were conducted, and between 30 and 40 thousand people came into the church as a result of this innovative approach to village evangelism in India. Let us look at one of his answers to the Executive Magistrate, Tiruvilla: Q) What Business are you doing here? A) I don't know what business I am doing. Ron, come out of your selective Amnesia. We know the business you are in. Conversions.

Posted by: agnivayu Jun 16 2005, 10:40 AM

These Xtian missionaries want to pick a fight with us. I am looking forward to one myself. Anyone who messes with vedic civilization will get their butt kicked.

Posted by: vijayk Jun 16 2005, 12:23 PM

I wish VHP and RSS spend some time on this Chritian conversion programmes and assault on Hinduim with the blessings of SONIA. I have been hearing for the last 3 years from them talking nothing about it rather tahn declaring a war on BJP.

Posted by: acharya Jun 16 2005, 07:38 PM

Evangelists' designs Ruby Nishat From the letters of Mr Omar Luther King, who claims to be a neo-convert Christian, it is clearly evident that his main objective is to create hatred and ill-will between Hindus and Muslims. In the past, the Christian rulers adopted similar means to create division in the society. Thus asked the British historian Sir Henry Elliot, "The Hindus had not left any account which could enable us to gauge the impact the Muslim conquest and rule had on them." Since there was none, Elliot produced his own eight-volume History of India (1867) aided by handpicked historians. Sir Henry's history claimed Hindus were massacred for standing up to Mohammedan rulers. According to him, Hindus were prohibited from worshipping and taking out religious processions, their temples were destroyed; they were forced to convert... Similarly, other Empire scholars produced synthetic Hindu-vs-Muslim versions of India. Sadly, their lies got embedded in history. On further study, we also find that Lord Curzon was told by the Secretary of State for India, George Francis Hamilton, that they "should so plan the educational text books that the differences between community and community are further strengthened". Another Viceroy, Lord Dufferin (1884-88), was advised by the Secretary of State in London that the "division of religious feelings is greatly to our advantage", and that he expected "some good as a result of your committee of inquiry on Indian education". "We have maintained our power in India by playing off one part against the other," the Secretary of State for India reminded. Yet another Viceroy, Lord Elgin (1862-63) added, "and we must continue to do so..." Hence under a definitive policy, the history books were so falsified as to give an impression that the medieval period of Indian history was full of atrocities committed by Muslim rulers. The present endeavour of Mr King seems to be a part of evangelical Christians' global conspiracy to create tensions between other communities. No wonder, the evangelists backed the US in its invasion of Iraq. They also supported US bombardment and genocide of innocent Muslims in Afghanistan. In a way, they are en route establishing Christian global hegemony. Jesus, they impishly believe, will make a second coming, and his arrival will be accompanied by a global killing of "unbelievers" (read non-Christians) by the believers (Christians). They demonised Muslims as evil incarnate. This is why the agenda behind crusades was not to convert Muslims, but to exterminate them. So St Bernard declared that "to kill an infidel was not homicide but malicide"! Today, the rise of Christian fundamentalism is truly frightening. The new Pope is known for his fundamentalist approach. He has taken hardline position on issues like contraception, celibacy, the marriage of priests, etc. The cardinals have obviously opted for continuity rather than change. The elevation of this fundamentalist approach has disappointed the liberals who had been laying emphasis on devolution of authority and collegiality within the church. Of course, we have nothing to do with church politics except hang our heads in shame. Particularly when it was made known that cardinal Ratzinger had indeed scored a negative point in the process of his election as the new Pope due to certain allegations regarding his conduct that have already appeared in Western press. What a pass things have come to!

Posted by: sankara Jun 20 2005, 10:50 AM

Crucified nun dies in 'exorcism' Father Daniel says the nun's death was justified A Romanian nun has died after being bound to a cross, gagged and left alone for three days in a cold room in a convent, Romanian police have said. Members of the convent in north-east Romania claim Maricica Irina Cornici was possessed and that the crucifixion had been part of an exorcism ritual. Cornici was found dead on the cross on Wednesday after fellow nuns called an ambulance, according to police. A priest and four nuns were charged with imprisonment leading to death. Orphan Police say the 23-year-old nun, who was denied food and drink throughout her ordeal, had been tied and chained to the cross and a towel pushed into her mouth to smother any sounds. A post-mortem is to be carried out, although initial reports say that Cornici died from asphyxiation. I don't understand why journalists are making such a fuss about this Father Daniel Local media reports that the young woman had arrived at the remote convent three months before, having initially gone there to visit a friend and opted to stay. She grew up in an orphanage in Arad, in the west of Romania. Mediafax news agency said Cornici suffered from schizophrenia and the symptoms of her condition caused the priest at the convent and other nuns to believe she was possessed by the devil. "They all said she was possessed and they were trying to cast out the evil spirits," police spokeswoman Michaela Straub said. Father Daniel who is accused of orchestrating the crime is said to be unrepentant. "God has performed a miracle for her, finally Irina is delivered from evil," AFP quoted the priest as saying. "I don't understand why journalists are making such a fuss about this. Exorcism is a common practice in the heart of the Romanian Orthodox church and my methods are not at all unknown to other priests," Father Daniel added. If found guilty of killing Cornici, Father Daniel and the accused nuns could face 20 years in jail.
For christian evangelists and missionaries in India who constantly criticize hinduism and take advantage of the ignorance of the Hindu poor to convert them, here's something to chew on. It would be very nice if the christian evangelists and missionaries from India were to go to Romania and set the churches there in order. It seems that christianity is in dire need of some serious reforms. It time for them to stop drinking the blood of christ and start looking toward building their spirituality. By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if there had also been sexual abuse going on there involving the nun and culminating in her murder.

Posted by: agnivayu Jun 20 2005, 04:01 PM

This proves it, Christians are indeed superior, only a civlized religion will kill it's followers.

Posted by: Mudy Jun 21 2005, 11:41 AM,000900030010.htm

The Orissa High Court has directed the state government to instruct district collectors and superintendents of police to take appropriate action against incidents of religious conversion through use of force, inducement or by fraudulent means.
The petitioners, belonging to 19 villages under Mohana police station of Gajapati district had alleged that Christian missionary organisations were engaged in forcible conversions in the area targeting the tribals and poor people. Despite repeated complaints, the local administration and police remained non-committal about the matter, the petition said.
Now we know why Angana, Poddar and commies supported by foreign funds came out of den and are creating havoc in Orrisa on non existing issue. They have also started petiton against Hindu groups.

Posted by: sankara Jun 22 2005, 08:29 AM

MOTHER TERESA : WHERE ARE HER MILLIONS? By Walter Wuellenweber The Following Feature Appeared in Germany's STERN magazine on 10 September 1998 on occasion on Mother Teresa's 1st death anniversary. It is worth pointing out here that STERN, one of Europe's highest selling magazines, is a conservative organ, not known for its anti-Catholic bias. The Angel of the poor died a year ago. Donations still flow in to her Missionaries of Charity like to no other cause. But the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize vowed to live in poverty. What then, happened to so much money? If there is a heaven, then she is surely there: Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu from Skopje in Macedonia, better known as Mother Teresa. She came to Calcutta on the 6th of Januray 1929 as an 18-year-old sister of the Order of Loreto. 68 years later luminaries from all over the world assembled in Calcutta in order to honour her with a state funeral. In these 68 years she had founded the most successful order in the history of the Catholic church, received the Nobel Peace Prize and became the most famous Catholic of our time. Are doubts permitted, regarding this "monument"? In Calcutta, one meets many doubters. For example, Samity, a man of around 30 with no teeth, who lives in the slums. He is one of the "poorest of the poor" to whom Mother Teresa was supposed to have dedicated her life. With a plastic bag in hand, he stands in a kilometre long queue in Calcutta's Park Street. The poor wait patiently, until the helpers shovel some rice and lentils into their bags. But Samity does not get his grub from Mother Teresa's institution, but instead from the Assembly of God, an American charity, that serves 18000 meals here aily. "Mother Teresa?" says Samity, "We have not received anything from her here. Ask in the slums -- who has received anything from the sisters here -- you will find hardly anybody." Pannalal Manik also has doubts. "I don't understand why you educated people in the West have made this woman into such a goddess!" Manik was born some 56 years ago in the Rambagan slum, which at about 300 years of age, is Calcutta's oldest. What Manik has achieved, can well be called a "miracle". He has built 16 apartment buildings in the midst of the slum -- living space for 4000 people. Money for the building materials -- equivalent to DM 10000 per apartment building -- was begged for by Manik from the Ramakrishna Mission [a Indian/Hindu charity], the largest assistance-organisation in India. The slum-dwellers built the buildings themselves. It has become a model for the whole of India. But what about Mother Teresa? "I went to her place 3 times," said Manik. "She did not even listen to what I had to say. Everyone on earth knows that the sisters have a lot of money. But no one knows what they do with it!" In Calcutta there are about 200 charitable organisations helping the poor. Mother Teresa's Missionaries of Charity are not amongst the biggest helpers: that contradicts the image of the organisation. The name "Mother Teresa" was and is tied to the city of Calcutta. All over the world admirers and supporters of the Nobel Prize winner believe that it must be there that her organisation is particularly active in the fight against poverty. "All lies," says Aroup Chatterjee . The doctor who lives in London was born and brought up in Calcutta. Chatterjee who has been working for years on a book on the myth of Mother Teresa, speaks to the poor in the slums of Calcutta, or combs through the speeches of the Nobel Prize winner. "No matter where I search, I only find lies. For example the lies about schools. Mother T has often stated that she runs a school in Calcutta for more than 5000 children. 5000 children! -- that would have to be a huge school, one of the biggest in all of India. But where is this school? I have never found it, nor do I know anybody who has seen it!" says Chatterjee. Compared to other charitable organisations in Calcutta, the nuns with the 3 blue stripes are ahead in two respects: they are world famous, and, they have the most money. But how much exactly, has always been a closely guarded secret of the organisation. Indian law requires charitable organisations to publish their accounts. Mother Teresa's organisation ignores this prescription! It is not known if the Finance Ministry in Delhi who would be responsible for charities' accounts, have the actual figures. Upon STERN's inquiry, the Ministry informed us that this particular query was listed as "classified information". The organisation has 6 branches in Germany. Here too financial matters are a strict secret. "It's nobody's business how much money we have, I mean to say how little we have," says Sr Pauline, head of the German operations. Maria Tingelhoff had had handled the organisation's book-keeping on a voluntary basis until 1981. "We did see 3 million a year," she remembers. But Mother Teresa never quite trusted the worldly helpers completely. So the sisters took over the financial management themselves in 1981. "Of course I don't know how much money went in, in the years after that, but it must be many multiples of 3 million," estimates Mrs Tingelhoff. "Mother was always very pleased with the Germans." Perhaps the most lucrative branch of the organisation is the "Holy Ghost" House in New York's Bronx. Susan Shields served the order there for a total of nine and a half years as Sister Virgin. "We spent a large part of each day writing thank you letters and processing cheques," she says. "Every night around 25 sisters had to spend many hours preparing receipts for donations. It was a conveyor belt process: some sisters typed, others made lists of the amounts, stuffed letters into envelopes, or sorted the cheques. Values were between $5 and $100.000. Donors often dropped their envelopes filled with money at the door. Before Christmas the flow of donations was often totally out of control. The postman brought sackfuls of letters -- cheques for $50,000 were no rarity." Sister Virgin remebers that one year there was about $50 million in a New York bank account. $50 million in one year! -- in a predominantly non-Catholic country. How much then, were they collecting in Europe or the world? It is estimated that worldwide they collected at least $100 million per year -- and that has been going on for many many years. While the income is utter secret, the expenditures are equally mysterious. The order is hardly able to spend large amounts. The establishments supported by the nuns are so tiny (inconspicuous) that even the locals have difficulty tracing them. Often "Mother Teresa's Home" means just a living accomodation for the sisters, with no charitable function. Conspicuous or useful assistance cannot be provided there. The order often receives huge donations in kind, in addition to the monetary munificence. Boxes of medicines land at Indian airports. Donated foograins and powdered milk arrive in containers at Calcutta port. Clothing donations from Europe and the US arrive in unimaginable quantities. On Calcutta's pavement stalls, traders can be seen selling used western labels for 25 rupees (DM1) apiece. Numerous traders call out, "Shirts from Mother, trousers from Mother." Unlike with other charities, the Missionaries of Charity spend very little on their own management, since the organisation is run at practically no cost. The approximately 4000 sisters in 150 countries form the most treasured workforce of all global multi-million dollar operations. Having taken vows of poverty and obedience, they work for no pay, supported by 300,000 good citizen helpers. By their own admission, Mother Teresa's organisation has about 500 locations worldwide. But for purchase or rent of property, the sisters do not need to touch their bank accounts. "Mother always said, we don't spend for that," remembers Sunita Kumar, one the richest women in Calcutta and supposedly Mother T's closest associate outside the order. "If Mother needed a house, she went straight to the owner, whether it was the State or a private person, and worked on him for so long that she eventually got it free." Her method was also successful in Germany. In March the "Bethlehem House" was dedicated in Hamburg, a shelter for homeless women. Four sisters work there. The archtecturally conspicuous building cost DM2.5 million. The fortunes of the order have not spent a penny toward the amount. The money was collected by a Christian association in Hamburg. With Mother T as figure head it was naturally short work to collect the millions. Mother Teresa saw it as as her God given right never to have to pay anyone for anything. Once she bought food for her nuns in London for GB£500. When she was told she'd have to pay at the till, the diminutive seemingly harmless nun showed her Balkan temper and shouted, "This is for the work of God!" She raged so loud and so long that eventually a businessman waiting in the queue paid up on her behalf. England is one of the few countries where the sisters allow the authorities at least a quick glance at their accounts. Here the order took in DM5.3 million in 1991. And expenses (including charitable expenses)? -- around DM360,000 or less than 7%. Whatever happened to the rest of the money? Sister Teresina, the head for England, defensively states, "Sorry we can't tell you that." Every year, according to the returns filed with the British authorities, a portion of the fortune is sent to accounts of the order in other countries. How much to which countries is not declared. One of the recipients is however, always Rome. The fortune of this famous charitable organistaion is controlled from Rome, -- from an account at the Vatican bank. And what happens with monies at the Vatican Bank is so secret that even God is not allowed to know about it. One thing is sure however -- Mother's outlets in poor countries do not benefit from largesse of the rich countries. The official biographer of Mother Teresa, Kathryn Spink, writes, "As soon as the sisters became established in a certain country, Mother normally withdrew all financial support." Branches in very needy countries therefore only receive start-up assistance. Most of the money remains in the Vatican Bank. STERN asked the Missionaries of Charity numerous times for information about location of the donations, both in writing as well in person during a visit to Mother Teresa's house in Calcutta. The order has never answered. "You should visit the House in New York, then you'll understand what happens to donations," sayssays Eva Kolodziej. The Polish lady was a Missionary of Charity for 5 years. "In the cellar of the homeless shelter there are valuable books, jewellery and gold. What happens to them? -- The sisters receive them with smiles, and keep them. Most of these lie around uselessly forever." The millions that are donated to the order have a similar fate. Susan Shields (formerly Sr Virgin) says, "The money was not misused, but the largest part of it wasn't used at all. When there was a famine in Ethiopia, many cheques arrived marked 'for the hungry in Ethiopia'. Once I asked the sister who was in charge of accounts if I should add up all those very many cheques and send the total to Ethiopia. The sister answered, 'No, we don't send money to Africa.' But I continued to make receipts to the donors, 'For Ethiopia'." By the accounts of former sisters, the finances are a one way street. "We were always told, the fact that we receive more than other orders, shows that God loves Mother Teresa more," says Susan Shields. Donations and hefty bank balances are a measure of God's love. Taking is holier than giving. The sufferers are the ones for whom the donations were originally intended. The nuns run a soup kitchen in New York's Bronx. Or, to put in straight, they have it run for them, since volunteer helpers organise everything, including food. The sisters might distribute it. Once, Shields remembers, the helpers made an organisational mistake, so they could not deliver bread with their meals. The sisters asked their superior if they could buy the bread. "Out of the question -- we are a poor organisation." came the reply. "In the end, the poor did not get their bread," says Shields. Shields has experienced countless such incidents. One girl from communion class did not appear for her first communion because her mothet could not buy her a white communion dress. So she had to wait another year; but as that particular Sunday approached, she had the same problem again. Shields (Sr Virgin) asked the superior if the order could buy the girl a white dress. Again, she was turned down -- gruffly. The girl never had her first communion. Because of the tightfistedness of the rich order, the "poorest of the poor" -- orphans in India -- suffer the most. The nuns run a home in Delhi, in which the orphans wait to be adopted by, in many cases, by foreigners. As usual, the costs of running the home are borne not by the order, but by the future adoptive parents. In Germany the organisation called Pro Infante has the monopoly of mediation role for these children. The head, Carla Wiedeking, a personal friend of Mother Teresa's, wrote a letter to Donors, Supporters and Friends which ran: "On my September vist I had to witness 2 or 3 children lying in the same cot, in totally overcrowded rooms with not a square inch of playing space. The behavioural problems arising as a result cannot be overlooked." Mrs Wiedeking appeals to the generosity of supporters in view of her powerlessness in the face of the children's great needs. Powerlessness?! In an organisation with a billion-fortune, which has 3 times as much money available to it as UNICEF is able to spend in all of India? The Missionaries of Charity have the means to buy cots and build orphanages, -- with playgrounds. And they have enoungh money not only for a handful orphans in Delhi but for many thousand orphans who struggle for survival in the streets of Delhi, Bombay and Calcutta. Saving, in Mother Teresa's philosophy, was a central value in itself. All very well, but as her poor organisation quickly grew into a rich one, what did she do with her pictures, jewels, inherited houses, cheques or suitcases full of money? If she wished to she could now cater to people not by obsessively indulging in saving, but instead through well thought-out spending. But the Nobel Prize winner did not want an efficient organisation that helped people efficiently. Full of pride, she called the Missionaries of Charity the "most disorganised organisation in the world". Computers, typewriters, photocopiers are not allowed. Even when they are donated, they are not allowed to be installed. For book-keeping the sisters use school notebooks, in which they write in cramped pencilled figures. Until they are full. Then everything is erased and the notebook used again. All in order to save. For a sustainable charitable system, it would have been sensible to train the nuns to become nurses, teachers or managers. But a Missionary of Charity nun is never trained for anything further. Fuelled by her desire for un-professionalism, Mother Teresa decisions from year to year became even more bizarre. Once, says Susan Shields, the order bought an empty building from the City of New York in order to look after AIDS patients. Purchase price: 1 dollar. But since handicapped people would also be using the house, NY City management insisted on the installation of a lift (elevator). The offer of the lift was declined: to Mother they were a sign of wealth. Finally the nuns gave the building back to the City of New York. While the Missionaries of Charity have already witheld help from the starving in Ethiopia or the orphans in India -- despite having received donations in their names -- there are others who are being actively harmed by the organisation's ideology of disorganisation. In 1994, Robin Fox, editor of the prestigious medical journal Lancet, in a commentary on the catastrophic conditions prevailing in Mother Teresa's homes, shocked the professional world by saying that any systematic operation was foreign to the running of the homes in India: TB patients were not isolated, and syringes were washed in lukewarm water before being used again. Even patients in unbearable pain were refused strong painkillers, not because the order did not have them, but on principle. "The most beautiful gift for a person is that he can participate in the suffering of Christ," said Mother Teresa. Once she had tried to comfort a screaming sufferer, "You are suffering, that means Jesus is kissing you." The sufferer screamed back, furious, "Then tell your Jesus to stop kissing me." The English doctor Jack Preger once worked in the home for the dying. He says, "If one wants to give love, understanding and care, one uses sterile needles. This is probably the richest order in the world. Many of the dying there do not have to be dying in a strictly medical sense." The British newspaper Guardian described the hospice as an "organised form of neglectful assistance". It seems that the medical care of the orphans is hardly any better. In 1991 the head of Pro Infante in Germany sent a newsletter to adoptive parents:"Please check the validity of the vaccinations of your children. We assume that in some case they have been vaccinated with expired vaccines, or with vaccines that had been rendered useless by improper strotage conditions." All this points to one thing, something that Mother Teresa reiterated very frequently in her speeches and addresses -- that she far more concerened with life after death than the mortal life. Mother Teresa's business was : Money for a good conscience. The donors benefitted the most from this. The poor hardly. Whosoever believed that Mother Teresa wanted to cahnge the world, eliminate suffering or fight poverty, simply wanted to believe it for their own sakes. Such people did not listen to her. To be poor, to suffer was a goal, almost an ambition or an achievement for her and she imposed this goal upon those under her wings; her actual ordained goal was the hereafter. With growing fame, the founder of the order became somewhat conscious of the misconceptioons on which the Mother Teresa phenomenon was based. She wrote a few words and hung them outside Mother House: "Tell them we are not here for work, we are here for Jesus. We are religious above all else. We are not social workers, not teachers, not doctors. We are nuns." One question then remains: For what, in that case, do nuns need so much money?
One question then remains: For what, in that case, do nuns need so much money? For conversion activities and among other things, for sponsoring christian terrorism around the world - India, Central and South America, Africa, and any place where catholicism needed to exert its dominance by fostering politcal and social instability. This Nun Theresa was one seriously mentally disturbed being, who made so many poor people suffer by tormenting them with her obsessive and delusional behaviors. Anyone else would have been put in a straight-jacket long ago, and pumped with tranquillizers. But Vatican and other western countries chose to prop her image up in poor non-christian countries such as India to bolster catholicism in the country. It is still unknown as to the extent of damage done by Theresa and her band of nuns through their outright abuse of the poor and sick, particularly children and women. How many of these children, who have physically survived the ordeals under these nuns, in turn will grow up to be traumatized, mentally sick adults. Thorough investigations and evaluations of extent of Theresa's abuse of the poor will never happen in India, especially now with another rabid catholic women, Antonia Maino, installed in position of power. Everything that has happened, happens, and will happen will be hushed and swept under the rug, as usual. What a tragedy! It looks as if Indians and the rest of the world will never know the extent of Nun Theresa's and her nun's abuse, exploitation and traumatization of the poor, the sick and the needy.

Posted by: rajesh_g Jun 22 2005, 06:36 PM

Look for missionaries who bite .. tongue.gif ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif

Celebrity Boxer Tyson to Become Missionary Posted June 22, 2005 LONDON Reuters Tuesday June 14 2005 00:00 IST No longer possessing the skill, stamina or desire for boxing, Mike Tyson says he is quitting the sport to become a missionary. Tyson put on a disgraceful performance against unheralded Irishman Kevin McBride on Saturday night, losing on a technical knockout after refusing to come out for the seventh round. “I just don't have this in my gut anymore,” Tyson told reporters after the fight. “I wasn't really interested...It's just not in my heart anymore. It's hard for me to fight.” A frustrated and fading Tyson tried to break McBride's arm during a clinch in the sixth round and then attempted a vicious head-butt in an outrageous effort to end the fight. The round ended with Tyson on the canvas, not from a knockdown but from a push. But the former champion was out of gas and staggered back to his corner like a man on a two-day drinking binge. “I'm going to look into my missionary work,” Tyson said of his post-boxing plans. “There is some Christian missionary work that was interested in letting me come to Bosnia, go to Rwanda, and go to different countries to help with aid and food for people that are in dire need.” Tyson, who closes his career with a record of 50-6 with 44 knockouts, received a pre-fight pep talk from Muhammad Ali, who was among the 15,472 in the crowd at the MCI Center. But even the three-times champion could not light a spark and make up for Tyson's deteriorated skills. “Smart too late and old too soon,” Tyson said. “I feel like Rip Van Winkle right now.”

Posted by: Viren Jun 22 2005, 08:07 PM

Celebrity Boxer Tyson to Become Missionary
So is he going to take of that tatoo of Mao on this arm? Imagine harvesting souls while carrying a tatoo of the commie regime which is most brutal oppressor of the soul harvestors in the first place.

Posted by: Mudy Jun 23 2005, 10:42 AM

Christian Rock Bands to Hold Conversion Drive in Bangalore Bangalore, 22 June 2005 Bellevision India News agency Bellevion Global reported on June 22, 2005 that Christ College in Bangalore will be hosting a large scale event featuring Christian rock bands and a video conference with the Pope in hopes of converting members of the college student population. The news release reads as follows: "Catholics youngsters group namely "Jesus Youth" is hosting one of the biggest events from 9 to 12 of October this month at Christ College Bangalore. One in Heart One in Mind One in Jesus is the theme of this mega conference. Mark Nemo a world renowned preacher will be present to given earth shaking talks in the retreat. Rex Band along with other famous Christian Bands will give concerts every evening. Around 3000 Jesus Youth leaders from all over India will attend this unique retreat. More than ten Bishops Arch Bishop of Bangalore are expected to grace the event. Many IAS and IPS officers, business men and CEOs too will witness this event. Video Conferencing with the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI has been arranged and our Holy Father will speak to the crowd. Satellite uplinking will be done so that the Jesus Youth members from all over the world could view the event live on websites. State of the art technology will be used for both lighting and sound. Exhibition giving the happenings in the Christian world from all over the globe and very specially in our missionary areas will be arranged. A representative of the Asian Bishops council to open our minds to the happenings in Asia. Sound technology will be used to cater to the speeches in English, Hindi, Malyalam at the same time. This will be a place where the young and not so young meet. All who started the movement from the last 25 years along with all who have been a active part of it will be present."

Posted by: acharya Jun 26 2005, 12:08 AM

China and Vatican Make No Secret of Thaw By Mark Magnier Times Staff Writer Sat Jun 25, 7:55 AM ET TIANSHUI, China — The priest opens a small black bag, carefully removing several sacramental garments, then glances at the 17 faces around the room. The house is several miles from the nearest town, down a long winding dirt road and tucked into a traditional Chinese courtyard. It's almost midnight on a recent Sunday as a few stragglers emerge from the dark, duck through a curtain made of pieces of old soda cans and enter a family's bedroom, for now a makeshift church. This secret Roman Catholic service is illegal in a country where the Communist Party demands control of all religious organizations. After the sermon, the priest, who asked not to be identified because of the risk of prosecution, reminds the faithful to be careful: "When you leave, don't say anything to outsiders," he says. "We all came to attend a friend's party. I hope you understand, and save us all from trouble." He should know. He was imprisoned for two months in the 1990s for practicing his faith and says he was tortured. Although freedom of religion is enshrined in China's Constitution, in practice, churches are under the watchful eye of a series of official "patriotic" religious organizations that have final authority over the naming of bishops, priests and other leaders. Many who bridle at Beijing's often-clumsy oversight prefer to worship underground despite the risk of arrest. The so-called patriotic Catholics number 4 million, according to government figures. Underground church members are estimated at two to three times that number. In recent months, relations between the Vatican and Beijing have thawed, with some seeing the death of Pope John Paul II as a catalyst. Rome, with its worldwide flock of 1 billion, and the Chinese Communist Party, overseeing a nation of 1.3 billion, have been doing an uneasy dance driven by self-interest. For Beijing, establishing formal ties with the Vatican could help soften its poor reputation on human rights and religious freedom. It would also be a diplomatic coup, since the Vatican would almost certainly have to sever formal ties with the Taiwanese government, Beijing's adversary. To the Vatican, China represents an extremely attractive frontier, where one-fifth of the world's people live in a society increasingly hungry for spirituality. Catholics in China have endured great hardship in the service of their faith for decades, including the imprisonment of many priests. In talks in Rome and Beijing, the two sides have outlined a range of possible compromises to normalize relations that seem to overcome the main sticking points, said Mario Marazziti, spokesman for the Rome-based humanitarian group Community of St. Egidio. The talks suffered a setback when Taiwanese President Chen Shui-bian attended John Paul's funeral, but Marazziti said he believed it was only temporary. The main elements of a compromise are now in focus, religious leaders and analysts say. The Vatican would probably end its official recognition of Taiwan and Beijing would allow Rome greater say in church affairs. Cuba and Vietnam, also ruled by communist governments, may provide a model, experts say. For instance, instead of naming a bishop, Rome could offer three candidates, letting Beijing choose. Church officials said many of Taiwan's 300,000 Catholics might feel betrayed by any downgrading of relations between Taipei and Rome. But Msgr. Ambrose Madtha, the Vatican's charge d'affaires in Taiwan, said the possibility had been floating for years, and many are used to the idea. The outspoken bishop of Hong Kong, Joseph Zen, said Rome wants better relations more than Beijing, which has rebuffed Vatican overtures in recent years. Rome even dispatched archbishops to North Korea on humanitarian missions, another country with which it has no official ties, in part because the priests would transit through Beijing. Once in China's capital, Zen said, the Catholic envoys called religious affairs officials, who sometimes agreed to meet them. "But if they said yes, they would just drink tea and repeat the same things, because the order is from the top," he said. China would need to change its overall approach for a deal to be struck, Zen said. Beijing recognizes Rome's spiritual authority but not its political authority. The patriotic associations, for example, exert overt control over the Catholic Church in some places, requiring that a Communist Party official attend every major organizational meeting. A rapprochement flies in the face of Beijing's general tightening of control over the media, religious groups, Internet writers, students and other potential critics since President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao came to power in 2002-03. Skeptics point out that Beijing will probably face calls from other religions to match concessions to Catholics. And even Zen admits that the giant bureaucracy charged with controlling religion would fight any change that might jeopardize its job. While the Catholic Church in China is growing at a moderate pace, various Protestant churches are expanding rapidly and now boast 15 million government-approved members and perhaps twice as many unofficial "house church" believers. Protestants have also faced prosecution for practicing outside government-approved churches. In a recent example, police in northeastern Jilin province raided 100 house churches in late May and detained 600 people, many of whom are still in custody, the U.S.-based China Aid Assn. said. And China's majority Taoist, Buddhist and Muslim religions were hit hard during the 1966-76 Cultural Revolution, when they were tarred as vestiges of old China designed by former rulers to subject the population. Temples were destroyed, monasteries disbanded and mosques ransacked, their religious leaders sometimes killed or sent to rural areas to work. After Mao Tse-tung died, China slowly loosened up on worship. All religious groups remain under its watchful eye, however, overseen by state bureaucracies. In practice, most worshipers have coexisted with the government because, unlike in Christianity, they lack a strong independent hierarchy and do not tend to recognize the authority of a foreign spiritual leader. And some movements, like Confucianism, are more a philosophy than an organized religion. The exception tends to be sects aligned with regional independence movements, as with Buddhists in Tibet or Muslims in Xinjiang in the far west, who continue to suffer severe government crackdowns. Driving the increase in faith across the Chinese landscape is what some experts refer to as a spiritual vacuum. With China rapidly becoming capitalist in all but name, growing numbers of people seek some sort of moral compass. Despite excesses suffered during the Cultural Revolution and the 1950s Great Leap Forward, many older Chinese remain nostalgic for the Mao era, when communism gave people something to believe in under the promise of equality and mutual benefit. "People in the West may not regard communism as a type of faith, but it is in the Chinese sense," said Fenggang Yang, a sociologist at Purdue University, who is training Chinese scholars to better assess the effect of religion on society. "China's communism doesn't hold people anymore. They're looking for something more." Analysts say the Communist Party's close oversight is driven by a fear of any group that might form a base of political opposition. "The screw is being turned," said Richard Madsen, author of the book "China's Catholics." "Religion is a vexing problem for authoritative regimes like China." At the same time, local authorities enjoy significant autonomy in interpreting policies as they see fit. In the words of a centuries-old Chinese expression, "The rule of the emperor stops at the village gate." In some provinces, police crack down hard on underground religion, whereas in other areas, people worship openly. In the northern province of Hebei, for example, 33 members of seven dioceses have been arrested and imprisoned in recent months, said Joseph Kung of the Cardinal Kung Foundation, a human rights group based in Stamford, Conn. Elsewhere, in the last two decades there has been growing tolerance. Church officials say more than 90% of bishops are secretly approved by Rome. Twice a year, in May and September, the worlds of the patriotic and underground Catholic churches converge at Cross Mountain in Shaanxi province as thousands of faithful climb the mountain, carrying crucifixes and kneeling in prayer on the way up. At the top, priests hear confessions in the open air as a team of priests says mass. And in a Chinese touch, firecrackers are set off at the moment when the bread and wine are blessed, a traditional means of dispelling evil spirits. The crowd is dotted with obvious undercover police in black shirts, expensive slacks and sunglasses, who mostly just observe the proceedings. The festival is inspired by Liu Jialu, a priest who, while in Italy around 1717, asked the pope if he would designate a sacred place in China. Li Duan, 89, a bishop in Fengxiang village in Shaanxi province, has spent much of his life navigating the divide between the underground and official churches. "In my 25 years as a bishop, I've never participated in the patriotic association," he said from behind a desk stacked high with papers and books as well as a cactus, lawn clippers and a bottle of chili sauce. "The Communist Party may not be happy, but I don't care." Jailed in 1959, Li was named a bishop by Rome soon after he was released in 1980. He emerged to find more than 30 of the county's churches destroyed. Since then, he said, he's reached an accommodation with authorities, doing everything he can to work with them, except on core issues of dogma. When they ask him to reduce the size of a gathering, he said, he complies. When they ask him not to go to Cross Mountain, he doesn't. And when they ask him to attend a seminar on patriotic Catholicism, he goes. "That way the government can save face," he said. "Politics is politics and religion is religion. Other than faith, I can be flexible." He's also seen his church rebuilt. He stands proudly in front, a Technicolor flourish of pinks, yellows, purples, reds and blues topped by metal angels and an array of fruit, flowers, birds, angels and wheat stalks. "We're underground, but we're above ground," Li said. The Communist Party, which banned the Catholic Church in 1951 shortly after taking over the country, advocates atheism. In 1986 Deng Xiao Ping reportedly urged cadres to be vigilant against the sort of sweeping democratic reforms that Poland witnessed at the hands of a Catholic labor union coalition. But Hong Kong's Bishop Zen says Beijing has nothing to fear. Catholics in Poland make up more than 90% of the population and resentment toward the Communist Party, seen as an extension of Moscow, ran deep. Catholics in China represent a tiny minority and the party is home-grown, enjoying broad-based support. "The comparison is not appropriate," he said. Another area where the state and the church's aims differ is on birth control and abortion. China instituted a one-child policy in 1979 to curb population growth. In general, heavy-handed enforcement has given way to financial incentives in most parts of the country, but coercive methods can still be found in some rural areas. Underground church officials say they take a stand on principle, but face limits on what they can do. "Of course we are against abortion and birth control," said Bishop Li. "If government officials consult with us, we'll disagree. But if they compel us, we don't have any choice." During her trip to Beijing in March, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made a point of attending a service at Gangwashi Protestant church, a well-preserved 1920s building that saw its pastor arrested in 1994 for honoring Tiananmen victims, but which is now state-approved. Gangwashi's smart furnishings contrast with those of the secretly held service in the house church back in Tianshui, in Gansu province. Here, the altar is an old wooden desk, its fake veneer peeling off. The chalice is an egg cup, the altar cloth a green towel, and the organ a cheap plastic keyboard atop a foot-powered sewing machine. Under a calendar with an image of Christ, homemade wafers and wine sit atop a side table that doubles as the family toothbrush holder, splayed bristles peaking from a plastic cup decorated with cartoon characters. As the priest wraps up the Mass, the hard life of his parishioners evident in their dirty hands, bent backs and etched faces, he expresses hope that Beijing and Rome will improve relations. "If we became legal, we wouldn't have to sneak around like this," he said. "It's only God's strength that keeps me going."

Posted by: Manu Jun 27 2005, 03:40 PM

Police have questioned 150 Hindu activists in connection with the deaths of the two pastors after receiving a tip-off from a local newspaper that a previously unknown Anti-Christian Forum had carried out the killings. Reddy said he also received an anonymous call from a man who said a Hindu nationalist outfit was involved. The pastors reportedly went missing on two separate occasions after being called to officiate at weddings. Christian groups say their community is frequently under attack from Hindu right-wingers, and many attacks in small towns or villages have been found to be motivated by religious hatred. However, the home ministry says it investigates all cases and that a large number involve land and property disputes.
It is not just Nazification of "Hindu Nationalist" groups, but an equal-equal with Islamists that is being sought. On a related note, Is it already too late for AP?

Posted by: k.ram Jun 29 2005, 02:19 AM

Christian Aid: Christianity Fastest Growing in India Jim Rutz of Virginia based Open Church Ministries in a recently sent a plea to Christian fundamentalists across America to provide funding for ""Operation Agape, Madhya Pradesh". In the newsletter her claims that hundreds of thousands of Hindus are being converted and India: The fastest-growing networks of pure house churches are in India. (China may be growing as fast, but most of their house churches still center around a single pastor. This has limited male membership to roughly 20-25%.) The best network is Operation Agape, which began in 1995 in central India as an "experiment" devised by strategist Wolfgang Simson and a wonderful Indian couple who will remain nameless. They started launching churches through spiritual power encounters-and running them without pastors, buildings, or Sunday services. This has produced well over 3000 house churches in Madhya Pradesh in the last six years-with 60,000-70,000 converts. Their methods have become a model for churches all across India. I have traveled with Victor, teaching seminars with 50-250 church planters, mostly young dalits, 21-28, formerly called "untouchables." These people are incredibly eager junior apostles. After all my 22-day seminars, the total of perhaps 1800 attendees estimated that they would plant over 35,000 house churches in the next three years! And this is only the beginning. One of my seminar hosts in Eastern India answered a knock on his door on December 20th to find eight elected representatives of 42 villages (40,000 people) who announced that after much study, they all wanted to leave Hinduism and become Christians! He sent them away, demanding to see declarations of serious intent with signatures. About four days later, they were back with statements, signatures, and a lot of thumb prints from the villagers. He immediately got to work, rounding up groups of disciplers, church planters, and mentors. Even more amazing: Just five or six weeks ago, there was another knock on his door. This time it was a whole new group of leaders with the same request-on behalf of 500,000 Hindus! This is an extremely crucial time for India. We must help these people. House church planters are ridiculously under funded, often walking long distances just because they don't have bicycles or mopeds. (Walking often invites queries and stoning.) What a waste of trained talent! Your contribution will promote self-reliance, not dependency. The bottom line: Mopeds are $700-900. Bicycles are $40. Gospel literature is very cheap. Every dollar works overtime in India. Will you consider the work in Madhya Pradesh as part of your new pattern of giving?

Posted by: agnivayu Jul 2 2005, 04:55 AM

A White Christian Fundamentalist in disguise. The Appropriate response to insults to Indians/Hinduism is not to protest, but in India an equally insulting depiction must be done of White's/ Christians. Fight fire with fire. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jul. 2, 2005. 01:00 AM Perhaps Hindu leaders should lighten up ROSIE DIMANNO There is no more sacred or universally identifiable religious symbol than the cross. Two billion Christians, whatever their denomination, revere it. But the crucifix has also been adopted, or co-opted, as a pop-culture icon, far removed from what it actually represents. Madonna — the singer, not the Virgin — used to bedeck herself with crosses during her inside-out underwear phase. And while she had been raised a Catholic, no one thought for a moment that there was any religious significance to the adornments. It was secular jewellery, iconography as fashion accessory. More provocatively still, there have been numerous schlock horror films made wherein the crucifix denotes something sinister or, even worse, when it's used as a luridly pornographic prop. Remember what Linda Blair did with a crucifix in The Exorcist? The Catholic Church — as primary custodian of the crucifix — may not like the sacrilegious purposes to which it has been subjected. But the Vatican has long since stopped making a fuss about it. There is no patent on the cross. It's not often that I can point to the Catholic Church and say: Follow their example. As in lighten up, back off, and turn the other cheek. But it would behoove Toronto's Hindu community — or at least some of their most overtly aggrieved leaders — to climb down from the wounded and truculent posture they have assumed since a charity fashion event last month so offended their religious sensibilities. The Fashion Cares Bollywood Cowboy show — and I've no idea what Bollywood has to do with cowboys since the genres would seem to be worlds apart — was sponsored by the AIDS Committee of Toronto, a firmly established good-works agency. Their sin was to commit an inadvertent fashion crime, dipping into the symbology of Hinduism to illustrate the show's cultural motif. Elements of the presentation included a nearly nude depiction of the goddess Lakshmi as well as drag queens who, goodness me, were smoking and drinking whilst in costume as various other deities in the vast Hindu firmament. Further, postcards of divine characters were trampled underfoot where patrons had carelessly dropped them. This alleged disregard for their sacred images sent many Hindus into a tizzy. Although ACT subsequently apologized for any unintended disrespect — because we must all grovel before the great god of multiculturalism — the Hindu Council of Canada stomped up to Queen's Park on Thursday, there to assert all manner of absurdities, confident in the knowledge that any minority group can make a mountain out of a molehill so long as the descriptor "racist" is affixed to their complaint. Naturally, the Canadian Race Relations Foundation took a seat on the dais of discontent. "This goes beyond irresponsible," its executive director was quoted as saying. "It demonstrated a callous disregard for non-European values and beliefs." Oh please. It did no such thing. And few sensible people — beyond societies where zealots go around smacking citizens in the head for exhibiting any hint of vice or non-pious behaviour — could possibly argue that a populist democracy need be so extremely diversity-sensitive that the religious observances of any particular creed should be imposed on secular activities. It was a fashion show, for heaven's sake. Nobody was promoting hatred toward any identifiable group, which is a damn sight more than can be said for many religious factions that are openly and unapologetically homophobic. Not, oh no, that the show's queer factor had anything to do with these objections from the Hindu religious leaders. They are quite specific about that. And we must take them at their word, although they won't take the word of ACT officials that no disrespect was intended, or that they have apologized sincerely for their benign ignorance. One spiritual leader from the Vishnu Hindu Temple in Richmond Hill even went so far as to make what can only be described as a threat, as if ACT — and by extension the gay community — has not had quite enough of those. "If they do not apologize or dialogue with us to show us they have some remorse, then we will have to take some appropriate action like a march, and there will be a lot of people,'' warned Budhendra Doobay, according to a story in yesterday's Star. In the process of respecting all cultures, faiths and races — a noble endeavour — we have increasingly diluted the central tenets of our own Canadian ethos; that this is a country of free expression, even when that expression causes hurt feelings. We cannot all live up to the threshold of approval and sensitivity as determined by others, particularly special interest groups whose grievance radar is so finely tuned to all perceived injury. It has become common to whinge about the "appropriation of culture," as if we should all speak only in the voice to which we can formally lay claim. This implies an exclusionary form of ownership, as if only Hindus can utilize Hindu symbols, only Catholics can paint the Madonna, only black women can write novels about black female characters, only Jamaicans can play reggae music. Or, equally troubling, that "outsiders" can cross the boundaries only when the content of their work is vetted and deemed satisfactory. This is madness. There is such a thing as the public domain, to say nothing of artistic expression, which is actually a great big something. While I'm no fashionista and have some difficulty including the rag trade among the arts, even I recognize that designers have always plundered other cultures to create a theme or a trend or a look. Indeed, the Bollywood/Indian mysticism motif is hardly new. But nobody was getting all hot under the Nehru collar about it three decades ago. Rosie DiManno usually appears Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday.

Posted by: Shambhu Jul 2 2005, 11:50 AM

So where does Rosie DiManno keep her crucifix-patterned sandals? And all those beer cans which show Jesus having a good time...well, I should thank Rosie for the enlightened attitude that she shows. I mean, even Mother Mary on toilet paper is allright with her. I have personally met hitchhikers who hitchhiked all across the US wearing "Jesus is a False God" T shirts...they had tear is their eyes when they were telling me about the good times they had (especially in Georgia and Sweet Home Alabama). Hindu Leaders indeed need to lighten up... blow.gif

Posted by: agnivayu Jul 2 2005, 03:30 PM

The rednecks in the deep south won't take that stuff lightly. Those guys are lucky they didn't get lynched [ probably cause they were white] I would like to see a brown skinned Hindu call the rednecks devil worshippers [and survive] like they do in India. What about all those Xtian nuts who protested the Jesus in Piss exhibit in New York . This is some trash show done to make Hinduism look like a decadent religion.

Posted by: Mudy Jul 2 2005, 10:41 PM

Saturday July 2 2005 VISAKHAPATNAM: Former Chief Minister and TDP president N Chandrababu Naidu ............ NO CHURCH ON TIRUMALA: In an informal chat with reporters, Naidu opposed the construction of a church at Tirumala, saying that Tirumala should remain the place of worship for Hindus just as Vatican is the stronghold of Christians. Such proposals should be dropped to prevent differences among various religions. .........

Posted by: Mudy Jul 3 2005, 09:42 PM

Friday, July 01, 2005 Moorthy Muthuswamy PhD Dear Secretary Rice, We have uncovered new data unequivocally showing massive and systematic religious apartheid carried out in India. All available evidence points to the US State Department (USSD) not even aware of this apartheid practice. Unfortunately, due to this ignorance USSD’s policy initiatives appear to be promoting this apartheid – i.e. undermining religious freedom and human rights in India. Through this letter we are bringing an opportunity for you to understand this issue and take corrective steps. My credentials I am an American trained nuclear physicist (received my PhD from Stony Brook University, NY) with well over twenty peer-reviewed publications in nuclear physics and related areas. I have also published well over thirty articles on terrorism and religious freedom related issues. I am writing this letter on behalf of Indian American Intellectuals Forum, a non-profit organization based in New York. I am an US-citizen. Indian American intellectuals forum This New York-based non-profit organization was established around 1999 to promote understanding between America and India. In the past six years we have brought out over thirty papers on issues concerning the community and have conducted well over five seminars. We have also met with US government officials in the past. We have hosted law-makers as well. In terms of awareness campaign our forum has among the strongest track records in Indian American community. Why was religious apartheid in India not noticed until now? Until recently a minority white regime in South Africa controlled power and garnered most wealth through unscrupulous and unethical means. The world community led by America and United Nations was finally able to identify and ostracize the white regime, leading to its dismantling and transfer of power to majority black native Africans. With that the last vintages of racial apartheid was coming to an end in the modern era. While racial apartheid is more easily noticeable, religious apartheid is not. It appears that religious apartheid is alive and kicking. In India we are now seeing conclusive evidence of a form of massive religious apartheid practiced by Muslim and Christians communities on majority Hindu community. Due to a lack of knowledge and due to weak and unsophisticated nature of the Hindu majority (like the black natives of South Africa), these grave violations of human rights have not yet been exposed. Curiously, the Indian constitution encourages apartheid practice by religious minorities. Obviously, the majority Hindus have proven to be powerless to change the constitution. Having been under slavery for a thousand years first under Muslims then under British, the Hindu community has not yet developed means and leadership to advance is its interests. As we know from South African situation, it is not always the case that a majority controls power – here again civilizationally backward black majority was taken advantage by a sophisticated minority white community. Both Muslim and Christian institutions in India with years of proselytizing and public relations experience behind them have not only managed to successfully shield their discriminatory and apartheid practices, but have also successfully painted a picture, portraying majority Hindu organizations and leaders as bad entities – when the reality has been exactly the opposite. To practice apartheid and to proselytize ! the Hindu majority it is a must to discredit its leadership and organizations – the time-tested winning formula – practiced by Muslim and Christian communities in India. Here in America two umbrella organizations represent Indian Christian and Indian Muslim interests: (Federation of Indian American Christian organization of North America) and (Indian Muslim Council – American chapter). These two outfits have been involved in sustaining and promoting institutions in India practicing apartheid (under the cover of religious freedom) and are on a smear campaign to discredit on Hindu organizations based in America and in India. The contents and their out of context and one-sided portrayal of events in India – exaggerating and vilifying Hindu majority organizations and their leaders while saying virtually nothing about the apartheid and violence conducted by their communities give away the true nature of these outfits. Christian apartheid in India Some sections of church in America undoubtedly tried to help native Americans. However, history records of American church’s support for driving out native Americans from their vast lands and its convenient description of them as “beasts”, so that discriminate and overwhelming use of force on them can be justified. Church’s support for treating blacks as slaves is also notable. We see from history that church could be involved in institutionalized discrimination and apartheid under certain conditions. Certainly, sections of church in India have undoubtedly worked to help poor, build hospital and educational institutions. But here is the question: Does the Indian church practice institutionalized apartheid as a way of taking away wealth unfairly from majority Hindus, so that the weakened Hindus can be converted to Christianity? We have uncovered extensive and massive discrimination and apartheid carried out by Church institutions in India. Here is a sample of employment patterns in Indian higher educational institutions. Note: The following statistics were extracted from institutions’ official web pages. Faculty religious affiliations were determined based upon their names. A more accurate religious determination will further skew the data toward religious bias. The faculty salaries appear to be State or tax-payer funded. * American College, Madurai, Tamil Nadu (Christian missionary operated): Total faculty members: 122 Christian faculty members: 81; Christian faculty percentage: 66% Total junior faculty members (junior lecturers): 22 Christian junior faculty members: 21; Christian faculty percentage: 95% * Stella Maris College, Chennai, Tamil Nadu (Christian missionary operated): Total faculty members: 118 Christian faculty members: 71; Christian faculty percentage: 60% * Union Christian College, Aluva, Kerala (Christian missionary operated): Total faculty members: 93 Christian faculty members: 77; Christian faculty percentage: 83% * St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai, Maharashtra (Christian missionary operated): Total faculty members: 132 Christian faculty members: 56; Christian faculty percentage: 42% Christians in India constitute only about 4% of the population. The local Christian percentages do vary. In Kerala Christians constitute around 19% of the population and in Tamil Nadu, around 7%. In Maharashtra they constitute around 5%. Statistics don’t lie, if this is not institutionalized apartheid, what is? Dominic Emmanuel, a director and priest at Delhi Catholic Archdiocese wrote recently in Financial Times arguing for reservation for minority students. There is yet another revealing statistics confirming how Church control of many educational institutions and its discrimination in favor of Christians has led to much higher literacy percentage level among Indian Christians. The result of a research conducted by Abu Saale Sharif, based on the National Sample Survey in 1998, shows that in the age group of seven years and above, the literacy rate among Muslim males is 59.5% and that of women 38%, making a total of 49.5%. Where-as among Hindu males, it is 65.9% and among women it is 39.2%, making it a total of 52.5% and among Christian males it was 85% and among women it was 76.5%, making a total of nearly 81%. Among other religious groups too the ratio is 65.6% among males and 40.1% among females, making it a total of 53.5%. Conclusion: By and large, it appears Christian institutions in India practice religious apartheid on majority Hindus. This is in violation of religious freedom and human rights. Even in a well-governed America we have found that businesses do cheat due to lax in regulations and/or enforcement of laws. India is a poor and an ill-governed country. Hence, there is no reason why the business of proselytizing in India wouldn’t use fraudulent means. Well-funded and connected proselytizing organizations can easily make the law enforcement look the other way as they indulge in unlawful practices. American evangelical groups and other Christian denominations are known to give funding and other help to Indian Christian institutions. It is hard to believe that they are unaware of this systematic pattern of Christian apartheid in India. Hence top Indian Christian government leaders with deep ties to Indian Christian institutions are in positions to damage the cause of human rights and religious freedom in India, as they can be manipulated by this apartheid practicing Indian Christianity. Muslim apartheid in India Any discussion of Muslim outlook in India could never be complete without discussing the outlook of former Indian Muslims, now known as Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims. In 1947, Muslims in India (comprising 24% of the population) demanded a separate nation for themselves and got it in the form of Pakistan (comprising 25% of the original land mass). Quickly they set about making these regions non-Muslim free. Over 20% and 30% Hindu and Sikh populations in Pakistan and Bangladesh are now reduced to less than 2% and 10% respectively. This was achieved by driving out most of these minorities to India. This is a special form of apartheid -- it is called genocide. There is also another interpretation of this 1947 partition-- a permanent 25% reservation for Indian Muslims – of land, wealth and opportunities. This was to repeat again in 1989 from India’s only Muslim majority state of Kashmir, once again from here too most Hindus were driven out to the rest of India. Also, Kashmiri Muslims who control the state through majority status have unfairly reserved most opportunities for themselves at the expense of others (,, What is Indian Muslim outlook in the rest of India where they are minority? The answer comes from institutions that are controlled by Muslims. * Jamia Millia Islamia University, New Delhi (A central university, but Muslim controlled): Total faculty members: 329 Muslim faculty members: 288; Muslim faculty percentage: 88% This total doesn’t include Jamia’s faculty of humanities and languages. Such an inclusion will only increase the religious bias. Although Jamia is not operated by a proselytizing Muslim organization, it broadly reflects the kind of employment discrimination that takes place in an educational institution operated by a Muslim proselytizing organization. * Aligarh Muslim University, Aligarh, Uttar Pradesh (A central university, but Muslim controlled): Total faculty members: 671 Muslim faculty members: 603; Muslim faculty percentage: 90% This total doesn’t include faculty from departments at Aligarh that do not have web pages. Recently, the regime in Delhi decided to reserve 50% of all post graduate degrees for Muslim students in Aligarh! Given that Muslims in India constitute only 14% of the population, this points to a severe religious bias and discrimination. Conclusion: Indian Muslim institutions practice religious apartheid on majority Hindus. This is in violation of religious freedom and human rights. Massive ethnic cleansing of Hindus from every area of South Asia controlled by Muslims points to one other thing – an expansion is now underway to Islamize the region and extend Islam’s frontiers using apartheid and genocide. Hence top Indian Muslim government leaders with deep ties to Indian Muslim institutions are in positions to damage the cause of human rights and religious freedom in India, as they can be manipulated by an apartheid practicing Indian Islam. Where is Hindu apartheid? While the statistics shown here on Muslim and.Christian institutions is limited I am confident that a more extensive study will point to similar conclusions. As we will see later the Indian constitution actively promotes minority apartheid practice on majority Hindus, hence there is every incentive for the minority to practice apartheid. These tax-payer funded minority institutions also give preferential admissions to students belonging to their faith -- thereby reducing opportunities and compromising the future of majority’s children. This too violates religious freedom and human rights. Due to a lack of statistics this student component is not discussed here. What is also notable is the recent trend in at least in one minority institution to hire almost exclusively young faculty of the same faith (American college). The majority Hindu community has a significant population level of educated people – thus negating the possibility of a lack of qualified majority manpower. Also, most of the topics taught in these colleges are secular in nature – not requiring people of certain faith. Statistics have shown that proselytizing activity of the majority Hindu community in India is insignificant. This can be ascertained from Indian population census history as well as from the philosophy and practice of Hindu religious institutions. Below is a quote from an analysis by Prof. Issac ( “The education scenario is one of the major sectors where the organised strength of the minorities in Kerala (where Christians and Muslims constitute around 19% and 25% respectively) is used in a covert manner. In this sector the majority (Hindu) community as well as the government altogether controls only 11.11 per cent, on the other hand the church controls 55.55 per cent and Muslim religious organisations 33.33 percent of the total institutions. At present the professional education sector of Kerala is somewhat under the full control of the minorities. About 12,000 engineering seats and 300 medicine seats are in the minority institutions and they are fully controlling the admissions. At present 60 per cent of the seats of the paramedical courses are controlled by the organised minority religious leadership. The minority managements deny the organisational freedom of teachers and students. Behind this undemocratic exercise, is there anything other than organised minority l!eadership's haughtiness? In this situation here, the successive governments are functioning as meagre onlookers.” Prof. Issac further states how Muslims who control power in education ministry in a Hindu majority Kerala have “In all the 25 years (as Education Ministers) the Muslim League followed the policy of filling ups of all posts in the educational department with Muslims.” How disorganized the majority community can be ascertained by the fact that Hindu temple funds are not only controlled by the governments, but are used to fund various schemes under government control, including Haj subsidies for Indian Muslims! This again is an evidence of unfair wealth transfer from the majority. India with a Hindu majority is secular and democratic is no coincidence, as are Pakistan or Bangladesh with Muslim majority is Islamic that often have had dictatorial regimes and are fountain heads of radicalism. While Muslim population percentage within has India grown by about 50%, the Hindu population percentage in the neighboring Pakistan or Bangladesh has dropped by several fold – since 1947. This shows that the outlook of Hindu community, unlike Muslims of South Asia, is inclusive. Hence it doesn’t appear to have the ingredients of a community that sponsors apartheid. We see how some groups belonging to proselytizing religions such as Christianity or Islam are using discrimination (due to deficiencies in Indian constitution) to garner wealth unfairly from majority community in India. This leads to impoverishment and illiteracy among the beleaguered Hindu majority, who can then be much more easily converted – by falsely claiming that Hindu religious practices make them destitute! Hence these apartheid practices in India, if left unchecked, will lead to the disappearance of an ancient civilization. Indian constitution promotes apartheid India’s constitution has certain provisions whereby minorities are exempt (are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion, unlike majority) from certain requirements in running their own institutions ( By and large, Hindus are not considered minority (even in areas where they are a numerical minority such as Jammu and Kashmir) but Christians and Muslims definitely are. For instance, minority community may reserve up to 50 percent of the seats for the members of its own community in an educational institution established and administered by it even if the institution is getting aid from the State. But the data given above, in some instances, show hiring level well-exceeding 50%. Very recently, Andra Pradesh government allotted 5% job reservation to its Muslim residents, showing that apartheid in India is only showing signs of increase and the power of jihadi groups that sponsored this reservation demand only increasing. Majority Hindus unlike Christians, Muslims and others do not have the same opportunity to establish, fund and importantly, operate schools/colleges in India. This in itself is at the heart of violation of religious freedom and human rights. In fact, minorities such as Muslims or Christians, unlike Hindus are allowed to discriminate constitutionally or lawfully. The statistics I have listed above show that they have in general gone well beyond that. Also, even if all communities get the same opportunity to "discriminate" lawfully on the basis of religion, that still is a violation of religious freedom. That is why India needs civil rights laws (similar to the one America has) that prohibit discrimination. Precisely for the above reasons, America doesn’t have these types of minority/religious preference laws and in fact, has laws that prohibit religious discrimination (the Civil Rights Act of 1964) -- under the Title VII of the civil rights act of 1964 prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex or national origin. Civil unrest in India is due to religious apartheid With their future and their children’s future unfairly stolen away due to apartheid practice of Christians and Muslim institutions supported by the respective communities, it is not hard to see why some Hindus in India have turned to violence directed at Christian and Muslim communities and institutions given the majority’s organizational weaknesses to dismantle this apartheid. With Indian Christianity controlling many educational institutions and hospitals this is a serious human rights issue. Article 370 of the Indian constitution granting special privilege to Muslim majority Kashmir is at the backbone of militant Islamic assault on India. This article has made it possible for Muslims in the region to institutionalize the practice of apartheid and extract enormous subsidizes from the central government in Delhi, that come at the expense of other states in India where most Hindus live. This apartheid practice has also led to a full-fledged Muslim insurgency in Kashmir. This too is a huge drain on India’s limited resources. Even as India records strong economic growth, Muslim apartheid-originated problems have kept wealth and resources from reaching hundreds of millions of impoverished majority Hindus. This has led to increasing resentment against Indian Muslims. The frustration at Indian democracy for its inability to stop this minority apartheid has led to an embrace of naxal ideologies by the majority poor in many states. Flawed outlook at US State Department and USCIRF What is American policy response to this apartheid? Here is a link to the 2004 USSD report on religious freedom in India: The main thrust of USSD’s and USCIRF’s efforts in India is physical protection minorities, with civil issues coming later -- on the grounds of encouraging human rights and religious freedom. This report shows that USSD has not even understood that Indian constitution undermines religious freedom and secularism. Here is a quote from this report: “The Constitution provides for secular government and the protection of religious freedom”. This report gives a comprehensively flawed portrayal of Hindu organizations being at the forefront of attacks and discrimination against minorities, based just upon isolated incidents and without statistical analysis. Statistics shown in previous sections do not lie – clearly indicating who practices apartheid and creates instabilities in India. What has happened is that Christian and Muslim minority institutions well-oiled in public relations have simply took State Department officials in India and in Washington for a ride. With the Hindu community (like the blacks in Africa) not sophisticated thus far and has not been to give its side of the story, essentially one view got through -- that of the religious apartheid practitioners. With USSD acting, to the most part, as the eyes and ears for USCIRF, this blunder continued in USCIRF’s “policy guides” to the US government on aiding religious freedom in India. This is mind boggling indeed. Instead of focusing on the big picture – the minority religious apartheid in India – the US State Department or USCIRF have focused on the issues that are dear to Christian proselytizers (with Christianity being the majority religion in America) – foreign fund flow for Indian Churches and anti-conversion laws in India. Obviously, both of these factor are adversarial to Christian interests in India. There also appears evidence that in consultation with minority leaders in India (who engage in apartheid practice), the US State department officials have lobbied local Indian government to revoke anti-conversion laws (revoking anti-conversion laws is adversarial to Hindu majority interests). The latest report released by USCIRF is available at this location:\e=1. Here again the practice of apartheid by Muslim and Christian minorities is not noted anywhere in sections pertinent to India. In its policy recommendations, the Commission fails to note this or the need make Indian constitution discrimination free. It is particularly notable that the State Department or the USCIRF’s reports on India have virtually nothing negative to say about Church activities in India! I am sure most Americans support policies of ensuring religious freedom and human rights abroad, but few would support American policies leading to the promotion of religious apartheid abroad. There should be little question that the US State Department or USCIRF has been thoroughly discredited when it comes to addressing religious freedom and human rights issues in India. However, this outlook and policy initiatives appear to be out of ignorance -- only saving grace in an unfortunate situation. Indian democracy undermined Clearly, this apartheid practiced by Muslim and Christian minorities in India undermines not just religious freedom and human rights, but also Indian democracy. The US State Departments’ reports have shown that American policies are inadvertently undermining democracy in India by its flawed outlook and policies. War on terror compromised The above 2004 USSD’s report on religious freedom and the companion one on human rights ( and by USCIRF have shown little indication of American grasp of Islamic expansion now underway in India or the pressures felt by the majority Hindus from this no-rules-barred jihad waged on them. With former Indian Muslims, also known as Pakistani Muslims at the forefront of Taliban & Al-Qaeda sponsorship, this outlook bares open deep intelligence failure at the USSD. This has been compounded by a dearth of younger people with expertise on South Asia ( A State Department that has been largely ignorant of minority apartheid and Islamic expansion in India has continued to commit policy blunders. With Narendra Modi India sees a decisive and an able leader who can bring minority apartheid to an end, help build a strong economy and help India win the war on terror. Not surprisingly, Christian proselytizing groups and jihadi fronts vehemently oppose him. The State department, consistent with its flawed outlook on India, revoked a visa originally issued for his visit. How can an US State Department with this level of ignorance on South Asia provide effective assistance to an American government on executing the war on terror? Recommendations It should be a shock and even shame that the US State Department’s perceptions and outlook are so flawed and inverted when it comes to religious freedom and human rights in India. This is simply unacceptable for the leading civilizational nation. Besides, the policies pursued by America in India are simply inconsistent with what it stands for and it what it tries to propagate around the world. Obviously some introspection and a policy review are immediately and sorely needed. America simply can’t afford to operate under conditions of ignorance. There must be a paradigm shift, i.e. the realization that like black majority under white apartheid regime in South Africa, it is majority Hindus in India who need protection from minorities. This is what statistics tell us, not some unobjective analysis based upon isolated attacks on minorities by Hindus. The world community led by America and United Nations had to nudge White Apartheid regime in South Africa to give up power to the black majority. This was because the Whites in South Africa were simply too powerful. In the case of India, with Hindu majority simply too weak to confront an organized and apartheid practicing minorities, it is in American interests to pursue policies in two ways: Help India amend its constitution so that it is non-discriminatory (with special status for minorities removed) and help India pass laws requiring non discriminatory hiring and admission practices & Nudge religious minorities in India to adhere to non-discriminatory practices. Unfortunately, there appear to be some support for apartheid practicing Christian proselytizers in the US Congress. It is important for USSD and USCIRF to keep that in mind as they formulate future policies on religious freedom and human rights issues. Please let me know how you are going to respond to these concerns. Sincerely Moorthy Muthuswamy PhD

Posted by: Mudy Jul 4 2005, 09:04 PM ETAH (U P), JUL 3 (PTI) Forty-five people from Christian faith have converted to Hinduism in a religious ceremony, organised by Dharam Jagran Samiti, at Meerapur village near here. The ceremony was organised by one Deo Roy Shastri of Gurukul Etah and a "havan" was conducted to convert the 45 people from Christian faith, samiti sources said. A priest, Sultan Masih also embraced Hinduism and changed his name to Sultan Singh, the sources said.

Posted by: k.ram Jul 6 2005, 01:30 PM

THE DANGER OF SUPPORTING NATIONAL PREACHERS To channel a lot of funds to a national preacher in that part of the world is a serious mistake. Those people are incredibly poor, and an amount of money which to us is minuscule, to them can be a small fortune and therefore a very great temptation. I have met dozens of Indian preachers who are channels for U.S. funds, and who have their hired "preacher boys" and evangelistic work. I have met very few who, in my estimation, were using the money properly for the spiritual health of the churches under their care. The tendency is for the following to happen: (1) The head preacher who is the funnel for the U.S. funds becomes wealthy in the eyes of his own people. He might seem poor to the preachers who visit from the States, but in the eyes of his own people, he has found a "gravy train." It has perpetuated the concept in those lands that a good way to make a living is to get hooked into U.S. church funds. (2) The national preachers who are on the head preacher's payroll become his hirelings. It is like welfare. They never seem to get off the dole. Year after year passes, and these evangelists and pastors remain salaried by U.S. churches via the largess of the "head preacher" rather than through the tithes and offerings of their own people. The "churches" they start never become self-supporting. They don't pay the salary of their own workers. They don't build their own buildings. They don't even buy their own bicycles. I have often asked these men why the national churches are not supporting their own men. The answer invariably is that "they are too poor." That tells me immediately that I am dealing with a man who desires to perpetuate the "welfare missions" system. Any church in any part of the world can support its own men at its own standard of living through the Lord's program of tithes and offerings. Those who refuse to train the churches in this matter are creating welfare churches which will never be strong enough to stand on their own feet. This is NOT New Testament missions. THE DANGER OF BUILDING NATIONAL CHURCH BUILDINGS It is a serious mistake to fund church buildings for nationals in other parts of the world. A church that is not capable of building its own building has one of two problems: (1) It is not yet established enough to have its own building, or (2) The church members are welfare types who do not have the spiritual authenticity to sacrifice and support for their own ministry. If a missionary builds the church's building, the people will never consider it their own. They will not learn to sacrifice. They will not learn to trust God for miracles. They will perpetually be on the dole. On occasion, it might not be wrong to HELP another church to build its building, when it is plain that that congregation is doing all it can to build the building, and when it is plain that that congregation would eventually get its own building with or without outside help. But to channel U.S. church funds indiscriminately into buildings in Asia (or elsewhere) will weaken those churches, at best. It is very possible that the churches which are so aided will never be true churches, being peopled only by "rice Christians." Obviously pastors and evangelists can visit Asian churches and can be a blessing without stumbling into these pitfalls, but these are very real dangers which should be avoided for the sake of the Lord's work. (Distributed by Way of Life Literature's Fundamental Baptist Information Service, a listing for Fundamental Baptists and other fundamentalist, Bible-believing Christians).

Posted by: k.ram Jul 7 2005, 02:23 AM

Angana, Orissa, "Rape" charges, another Gujarat in the making?, in the name of the Lord?

Orissa Court Takes Action against ‘Illegal Conversions’ The Orissa High Court has ordered appropriate action to be taken against incidents of 'illegal' religious conversion Jul. 6, 2005'illegal.conversions'/1.htm The Orissa High Court has ordered appropriate action to be taken against incidents of religious conversion through use of force, inducement or by fraudulent means, sources reported late last month. After receiving reports of “large-scale illegal conversions” in the eastern Indian state, a bench of the court asked the government to direct district collectors and superintendents of police (SPs) to inquire into such actions and take appropriate measure against perpetrators of such activities, local news agencies reported. The court order came in response to a public interest litigation (PIL) filed by 269 petitioners that alleged that Christian missionary organizations were engaged in forcible conversions in the area targeting the tribal and poor people. Despite repeated complaints, the local administration and police remained non-committal about the matter, the petition said, according to the New Delhi-based Press Trust of India. Directing the Gajapati administration to take action, the court instructed the local police to register cases under sections 3, 4 and 5 of the Orissa Freedom of Religion Act (OFRA) and submit the charge sheet immediately. According to Gospel for Asia, a mission agency that trains and sends native missionaries into unreached areas of Asia, the latest order could endanger native missionaries, even when Hindus seek them out to learn more about Jesus Christ. “The anti-Christian forces in Indian society often bring charges of ‘forced conversion,’” the agency reported last week, “even though the individuals freely choose to change their religion.” The agency noted that although the law is called the Orissa Freedom of Religion Act, it "is mainly used to deny men and women their basic human right to freely follow Christ." GFA has requested for prayers “to protect GFA missionaries and others sharing the Gospel and for the new believers as they seek to follow Christ amid much opposition.” The agency also noted in its June 28 report that the recent order was made by the same court that recently canceled the death sentence of one of the men convicted in the murder of missionary Graham Staines and his sons in 1999. While the man's sentence was commuted to life imprisonment, eleven others charged with the crime were acquitted.

Posted by: utepian Jul 10 2005, 09:10 AM

RSS rescues Christian priests Press Trust of India New Delhi, July 10, 2005 Believe it or not! RSS activists recently rescued 80 Christian priests trapped in an accident in the dense forests of Orissa's Sambalpur district and even donated blood to save their lives. A marriage party comprising 90 Christian priests was on its way in a truck from Jamankeri village to Goudpil when it met with an accident in which 10 of them died on the spot and 80 others were seriously injured, said a report in the latest issue of RSS mouthpiece 'Organiser'. As the priests looked for help in the dense forests, an RSS activist heard their shouts and managed to mobilise 50 Sangh volunteers to help them. "The pastors were rescued and admitted to a nearby hospital, 45 kilometres from the site, in that dark night," the report said disclosing that the Swayamsewaks not only provided the injured medicines and food but "donated their own blood" to the pastors. The weekly quoted Bishop Samal as saying, "these boys of RSS have given us a new life. We are grateful to them. May God bless them". "We have not done anything much. What we have done has been done from the humanitarian point of view. All of us are human beings. All are children of God," it quoted BB Nanda, RSS state secretary as saying. The RSS has often been criticised by Christian organisations for targeting Christian missionaries in the tribal areas. --,000900030010.htm

Posted by: Mudy Jul 10 2005, 11:38 AM

Conversion game in Agra in full steam Monday, July 11, 2005 Vijay Upadhyay/ Agra The Agra Dalits are a confused lot nowadays. As the town becomes a laboratory for religious experimentation, the Dalit is unwillingly playing the guinea pi-g, alternately sporting the cross and the Om. According to a recent survey of Agra division's seven districts, made by Hindu organisations in the region, over 2 lakh Dalits have been converted to Christianity. It's the Dalits in the Valmiki community that have borne the brunt of conversions the most. Almost 90 per cent of the Valmikis have come under the sway of baptisation drives and converted to Christianity. Now, the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) has launched a massive campaign to bring back the convertees into the Hindu fold. Regional co-coordinator, Hindu Jagran Vibhag of the VHP, Indrajit Arya claims that a large number of these convertees still followed Hindu customs, despite being warned of dire consequences by the missionaries for indulging in "Hindu idol worship." The women still observe the karwachauth fast, the cross on their neck notwithstanding. The "purification drive" that aims to facilitate the "home coming" of the convertees has successfully purified just over 18,000 in the past one year, including 17 priests. In February this year, 5,000 converts were brought back into the fold in a purification camp in Etah on a single day. Eversince, 600 Dharm Raksha Samiti activists have continually been visiting the villages. The newly baptised villagers are re-converted to Hinduism either by Arya Samaj leaders in small groups or through a havan, that purifies them en masse. The VHP leaders subsequently dine with the "reformed" Hindus to make them feel equivalent to the other Hindus, as the missionaries target the practice of "untouchability" in Valmiki Dalits as their weapon for affecting conversions. Says Mr Arya, "The purified Hindus were made to sign affidavits certifying that they had not been forcibly re-converted." The Hindu leaders aim to bring back atleast 80,000 Christian convertees back to the fold by the turn of the next year. Recently, another purification drive was held in Etah, where 45 Christians re-entered Hinduism, including three Christian priests who willingly handed over the "churches" to the VHP, to be transformed into Gurukuls. The church priests were then made aware of their "moral duty" towards Hinduism which they had forgotten after being "misled" by Christian missionaries. The VHP's next stop is Hathras, where it aims to coax at least 6000 convertees to return to Hinduism.

Posted by: acharya Jul 10 2005, 06:06 PM

First Things China's Christian History Charles Horner Copyright © 1997 First Things 75 (August/September 1997): 41-46. For more than four centuries, the study of China and the conversion of its people have been high Christian callings. Though never a decisive influence on the course of China’s history, Christianity has managed to be on hand for some of the country’s shaping events, present at both creative and destructive moments. Today, as China’s relations with the world become ever more complex, the West’s core religious tradition has once again insinuated itself into China’s ongoing confusion, not only in a day-to-day way but as a subject for longer-term speculation. In the United States especially, efforts in both religious and political communities to make Christianity more salient in America’s international relations generally are bound to make Christianity more conspicuous in United States-China relations particularly. The first sustained personal and intellectual linkages between the great civilizations of China and the West originated in the efforts of Catholic missionaries in the early 1600s to create a synthesis between the teachings of Confucius and Jesus that might, someday, ease China’s acceptance of Roman Catholicism. The beginning of this great project is customarily marked by the arrival of the Italian Jesuit Matteo Ricci (1552-1610) in Beijing in 1601, though the indefatigable Ricci had come to south China in 1583 and was able to present himself at the Imperial court only after eighteen years of trying. Ricci and his colleagues in China came to be known within the Church as "accommodationists." They were responsible for the translation of Chinese classics into Latin. They established sinology as a scholarly discipline, and dominated it throughout the seventeenth and most of the eighteenth centuries. They introduced the West’s advances in astronomy and mathematics to the Chinese. They believed that much of inherited Confucian wisdom and ritual was consistent with Catholic teaching, as they understood the two traditions. This belief was as much practical as theological, for they believed that the first order of evangelization in China was securing the respect of the vaunted Confucian intelligentsia. As it happened, the small band of European Catholics in China and the slowly growing cohort of converts lived through one of the country’s great social and political cataclysms. Precisely because the Jesuits had a high opinion of the Chinese tradition, they were as disconcerted as the Chinese themselves by the violent end of the great Ming Dynasty in 1644. Established in 1368, the Ming house began to crumble in the 1620s, leaving the country open to conquest by the Manchus, a "barbarian" people from beyond the Great Wall. The chaos created by the Manchus’ ascendancy was especially great in Beijing, but throughout the country there were acts of real and symbolic Chinese resistance, from the formation of pro-Ming secret societies to suicides born of despair. Ming loyalism retained a grip on the country’s imagination, inspiring much opera, drama, poetry, and popular fiction. It took the Manchus another forty years or so to mop up the opposition in the larger country. Both the Confucian Chinese and the Catholic Europeans who witnessed these events and understood them in the context of China’s history appreciated their profundity. (They even had ramifications for the world’s balance of power, since the struggles among the English, Dutch, Spanish, Portuguese, French, and Russians for influence in Asia and, therefore, ultimately in Europe itself, were already well under way.) What explained this great upheaval? Inside the Confucian intelligentsia, dynastic collapse and foreign conquest produced a certain loss of confidence, and some began to recast Confucian doctrine. To some degree, the demoralization was so deep that many thoughtful Chinese were unprecedentedly open to an alternative world schema of the kind the Jesuits presented. And they thought they were making progress. In 1692, the emperor Kangxi (1654-1722)---regarded now as among the greatest in China’s history---issued an Edict of Toleration. But the Emperor, perhaps because Manchu rule itself was becoming more accepted, or perhaps because he felt it advisable to identify more closely with the Confucian mainstream, came gradually to withdraw his support. His son finally proscribed Catholicism in 1724, and placed it on the list of "perverted sects and evil doctrines." Meanwhile, back in Rome, it thus became easier for the Jesuits’ universalist outlook to come under attack from the order’s rivals, and its doctrinal assumptions began to lose ground. Eventually, this so-called "rites controversy" about the compatibility of Catholicism and Confucianism was resolved by a papal bull of 1742 that prohibited Chinese Catholics from participating in various Confucian rites. There were no more than a half million Catholics in China by then, and the government’s sustained hostility ground that number down by about half. Still, they survived well enough---even though subject periodically to local outbursts of anti-Christian feeling---mostly because the dynasty had far more challenging problems suppressing armed rebellion and expanding imperial domains. Kangxi’s grandson, another of the great emperors, was particularly preoccupied with adding Mongolia, Tibet, and East Turkestan to his core Chinese holdings and, in the process, creating "China" as we now know it. The truly great era of Western influence in China began in the mid-nineteenth century, and though the propagation of the faith was hardly the dominant motive of these newly influential Westerners, the role of Christianity in Chinese affairs grew in proportion to the Western presence. Over time, the freedom for foreigners to proselytize and for Chinese to practice the Christian religion became part of the treaty system that came to define China’s relations with the Western world. Once a localized phenomenon, Christianity could thus be carried deep into the interior of the Empire, and the Chinese government was obligated to protect that advance---however much it resented the obligations that the West had forced upon it. Meanwhile, the Christianization of China, once exclusively the province of Catholics, became increasingly a Protestant undertaking, first dominated by the British but, later, overwhelmingly by Americans. This reflected the relative decline of the older Catholic powers in world affairs, Britain’s leading role among Western nations in China, and the various energetic movements among English-speaking Protestants throughout the nineteenth century. In the meantime, however, the Chinese might be pardoned for regarding the arrival of Christian doctrine as a mixed blessing. For one of the largest and most devastating uprisings in world history occurred in China in the mid-nineteenth century, and it was inspired by one Chinese man’s interpretation of Christian faith. In l837, a certain Hong Xiuquan, age twenty-three, read Chinese-language Protestant pamphlets and, afterward, understood himself to have visited heaven. His vivid recollection of his journey had powerful effects. He came to believe that he was the son of God and the younger brother of Jesus Christ. He set out to give a systematic presentation of his vision both theologically and politically, and came gradually to regard himself as the founder of a new earthly order for China. His following grew, and came to include men with natural gifts for military operations. They are known to history as the Taiping ("great peace") rebels. Hong began to capture important cities in the central regions of the country, enabling him to implement a Sino-Christian theocracy determined to construct an earthly utopia, "so that all can live together in perpetual joy, until at last they are raised to heaven to greet their father." It was a complex system, often arbitrary and brutal, socially communal, and extremely puritanical. (It would be much studied, later, by the Chinese Communist Party.) At its apex was the Heavenly King, as Hong now styled himself. Over time, Hong’s realm spread close to Shanghai, the center of Western influence in China, and Western governments had to decide whether to back a Christian Heavenly Kingdom of a kind, or support the ruling Manchu/Confucian dynasty of a sort. A delegation of Protestant missionaries actually called on Hong, and examined him about his theological convictions, which, of course, they found heretical. They also judged the Heavenly King too set in his ways to recant. It took almost fifteen years, until about 1865, for this somewhat-Christian movement to be suppressed. Tens of millions were engaged on both sides of the struggle; casualties were also in the tens of millions, and the collateral destruction, by all eyewitness accounts, was enormous. China’s devastating encounter with bowdlerized Christianity made it all the more difficult to purvey the approved thing. Relations were further poisoned by the famous "Boxer Uprising" of 1900, which fed on a kind of mass hysteria rooted in homegrown Chinese millennialism, aided and abetted by the shortsighted manipulations of a faction inside the Manchu court. The Boxers violently attacked foreigners, Western Christians and, especially, Chinese Christians. In this they were different from the Taiping rebels in more than theology; the Taipings were anti-Manchu, the Boxers prepared to live with the "barbarian" Manchu dynasty as the only practical alternative to foreigners they hated even more. One supposes, also, that in supporting the Boxers’ anti-Christian vehemence, China’s Manchu rulers were hoping finally to extirpate the pseudo-Christian sentiment that had so threatened their rule thirty-five years before. But the effort was disastrous—a war against all the major powers of the world, whose armies invested Beijing and imposed further humiliation and indemnity on the now-doomed Manchu regime. As in the mid-seventeenth century, the psychological dislocation of dynastic decline also triggered a crisis of confidence in received tradition and a corresponding willingness to examine even "perverted and evil" doctrines. Even so, Christian teaching had to compete with a host of secular Western ideologies, all of them associated in one way or another with what appeared to be the winning side in the struggle between the "old" and the "new," things Chinese and Western. In retrospect, we now understand that Christianity, and especially its American Protestant variant, contributed much to the secular modernization of China. It was associated with the dominant reformist idea of the time---the social gospel---and its effects on Chinese society were profound. It was a powerful force in education, medicine, women’s rights, and, especially, in introducing younger Chinese to the world through educational experiences in the United States. So it was that the saving of Chinese souls one at a time had to mean the salvation of Chinese society as a whole. At first, this prompted occasional forays into Chinese politics by prominent American missionaries; later, it produced determined interventions into the making of American foreign policy toward China. In our own time, it is hard to appreciate the scale of the American Protestant effort in China from, say, 1850 until the establishment of the Communist regime in l949. But it was huge, and drew upon the energies and the funds of Americans in every part of the country. It built schools, universities, and research institutions as well as churches. And, most of all, it produced the cadre that interpreted things Chinese to Americans, whether religious or secular. Before there were departments of East Asian studies, the requisite competencies were being developed among the preachers and their children. The late Kenneth Scott Latourette, professor at Yale and the most industrious chronicler of the expansion of Christianity into China, could himself recall that, in 1928, when the American Council of Learned Societies set up a Committee for the Promotion of Chinese Studies, half the members were either active or retired missionaries, or their children. All this was to have its effect on world politics and on world history. As it happened, the single most important shift in American sentiment affecting East Asia actually occurred between the end of the Russo-Japanese War in 1905 and the end of World War I in l9l8. For it was in that period that favorable sentiment shifted from Japan to China. Even as early as l915, active American Protestants in China realized---in advance of most, it would now seem---that Japan was set on a predatory course, that China was to be a victim and not a beneficiary of Japan’s rapid modernization, and that the United States ought to line up on China’s side. These feelings intensified in the next quarter century as the United States did indeed involve itself ever more forcefully on China’s behalf. The growing psychological and material involvement of Americans in China’s affairs was decisively influenced by two powerful personalities shaped by their personal experience of the Protestant enterprise in China. The better known is Henry Luce (1898-1967), founder of Time, Inc. and, in his time, the most influential of American publishers. Luce spent the first fourteen years of his life in China, where his father was a Presbyterian missionary. Time itself, which Luce started in l923, succeeded quickly, and became but the first in a series of prominent magazines. With the success of his ventures so rapidly consolidated, Luce began to convey through his magazines his strong opinions about the convergence of China’s future with Christian and American ideals. He settled upon the Nationalist Chinese leader Chiang Kai-shek (1887-1975) as the embodiment of this bold East-West synthesis. Chiang’s wife, Soong Mei-ling (b. 1897), a formidable figure in her own right, was a member of China’s most prominent and prosperous Christian family and facilitated Chiang’s conversion to Methodism in 1930. Chiang’s political mentor, Sun Yat-sen (1866-1925), was a Hong Kong-trained physician who had himself been baptized, and who had spent some of his earliest years in Honolulu. Luce’s advocacy on the Chiangs’ behalf fit nicely with an American avidity for Christianizing purposes in Asia. Luce’s rather expansive vision of China’s destiny was balanced by the more down-to-earth renditions of Chinese life created by Pearl S. Buck (1892-1973.) Mrs. Buck, also the child of a Presbyterian missionary, grew up in China, was effectively bilingual, and created a sensation with the publication of her novel The Good Earth in l931. Though only barely into her literary career, she won the Nobel Prize for Literature in l934. More than any other product of the missionary experience, Mrs. Buck—her relative obscurity today notwithstanding—created the enduring American image of the long-suffering though indefatigable Chinese peasant. Like Luce, she was to find herself at the center of a vast enterprise that brought moral, financial, and political support to China during the l930s and l940s. Later, these two renowned American sinophiles would come to a parting of the political ways; Mrs. Buck was far the more modishly liberal of the two, in the end a pessimist about Chiang’s prospects, whereas Luce is remembered as an unrepentent supporter of Chiang Kai-shek and his Kuomintang, the "nationalists." Still, what we might call the golden age of Presbyterianism in Chinese-American affairs had one final and dramatic episode left to it and, with that, the onset of a generation of disillusionment about China and its prospects. John Leighton Stuart (1876-1962) descended from generations of Presbyterian churchmen. His father, who had come to China in 1873 at age twenty-eight, would serve there for forty-five years. Stuart, born in China, would spend his youth there, travel abroad, and then return in 1905 after completing his university education in the United States. In the ensuing decades Stuart would rise to become President of Yenching University in Beijing, flagship of the many American higher education institutions in China. He lived through the Japanese occupation of the city, as their prisoner, from late l941 until Japan’s surrender in l945. In l946, at the instance of George Marshall, Stuart was made U.S. Ambassador to China, but fled the Chinese mainland in 1949 when the Nationalist regime collapsed. By Christmas 1950 the United States and China would be at war in Korea. There would not be another full-fledged American Ambassador in Beijing until l979, though linkages were never wholly broken; two of the subsequent U.S. Ambassadors to the PRC, James Lilley (served 1989-1991) and J. Stapleton Roy (served 1991-1995) were both China-born, Roy the son of a Protestant missionary. For the next quarter century, China was governed substantially at the whim of Mao Zedong (1893-1976), a demonic megalomaniac who, in his own way, sought to complete the work of the failed Heavenly King. For Maoism was to socialism what the Taiping creed was to Christianity---a bizarrely sinified version of Western doctrine which, when implemented by its Chinese creator, brought about astounding human misery. Even so, after Mao’s death, his successors gave "socialism" another try---"socialism with Chinese characteristics," as the late Deng Xiaoping named it---though in practice it resembles in many respects the kind of capitalism practiced by China’s East Asian neighbors Just as Westerners have had trouble comprehending the scale of any of China’s modern convulsions, whether Christian-inspired popular rebellion or Marxist-inspired social revolution, so too has the great turmoil produced by today’s continuing experiment, now twenty years running, gone under-appreciated. In that time, the size of the economy has more than quadrupled. Hundreds of millions of people have moved from one part of the country to another. Consumer products of every description have become commonplace. International exchange of goods and people and ideas has grown exponentially. And while China’s new "socialism" was moving from one success to another, the Soviet Empire collapsed, followed by the Soviet Union itself, followed by Communist doctrine overall. No wonder, then, that a nation of more than a billion and a quarter souls turned upside down and inside out demographically, economically, environmentally, culturally, and ideologically should find itself somewhat confused about the proper interpretation of these developments. The ruling regime uses its persuasive resources to urge economic growth, ethical and cultural advance, and the creation of something it calls "spiritual civilization." Sometimes, China’s high tradition is invoked in support of these ends, but that is made awkward by a regime whose higher cadre remind no one of a refined Confucian literatus. At other times, the appeal is to political thought of more recent vintage, but that, too, seems self-discrediting when invoked by a moribund Communist Party. We in the jaded West recognize this syndrome, and so do the Chinese. The regime, as a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist police state, is doctrinally atheistic and intermittently brutal to religious believers of all kinds. Yet it is also a principal sponsor of discussions of the moral vacuum in the country, an indication that it senses its own rule may be precarious. At one such event in June 1996, one of China’s best-known writers, the novelist Wang Meng, spoke about the spiritual thirst of ordinary Chinese and, especially, of Chinese artists and intellectuals. He attributed the popularity of some of the younger writers to their religiosity---"better the rigid adherent of any religion than a man whose spirit has totally collapsed. . . . What an interesting phenomenon it is! One becomes a Christian believer. Another claims to be possessed by the devil. Still another becomes a disciple of Chan (i.e., Zen) Buddhism." Wang had more to say about what he called the "new craze of ultimate faith," and, given his own personal and political history, he is clearly on to something. He first gained fame in l957 when, in his early twenties, he took advantage of a brief thaw to write a novel critical of the Party’s pomposity. In and out of favor ever since, he was appointed Minister of Culture in l986, and then removed in l989 after the Tiananmen massacre, since he was thought too liberal. Seven years later, however, his remarks in mid-l996 were not troublesome enough to prevent his election as Vice-Chairman of the Chinese Writers Association at the end of the year. And yet l997 began on a disquieting note---a bitter personal attack against him published in one of the Party’s many journals. The contemporary situation of Christianity in China is no less ambiguous. It is obviously capitalizing on the spiritual disorientation of a country that is experiencing an example of the power of capitalism’s creative destruction, one whose scope is unprecedented in world history. But it also benefits from the fact that there has been religion as such in China for a very long time, and not just the "folk religion" and "state religion" beloved of social and political anthropologists. Chinese Buddhism is heir to a complex organizational structure of temples, monasteries, seminaries, estates, and endowments. The institutional Buddhist base of Tibetan resistance to Chinese rule is well-known in the West. There have been Muslims in China for more than a millennium; the number today is small---about twenty-odd million---but they are strategically located in the country’s far northwest and increasingly connected to the stirrings throughout the Islamic world. But, in the end, it is Christianity’s Western origin and Western connection that make it a devilish problem for a China that really is "opening up" to the outside world. The older Party line on such worldliness was that Christianity was nothing but a subversive adjunct of Western imperialism; the most recent Chinese scholarship is far more appreciative of Christianity’s "progressive" influences. The regime now recognizes that its own de facto "edict of toleration," dating from the late l970s, has allowed for an upsurge in Christian adherents, though we do not know how many. The regime itself uses a figure of about ten million---six million Protestants, four million Catholics---but the real number is certainly higher. There is, likewise, a range of church-state relations, from furtive underground congregations harassed and hounded, to officially sanctioned "patriotic" churches and church organizations. The People’s Republic and the Papacy, especially, have been locked in a fifty-year struggle over the Communists’ refusal to acknowledge the Vatican’s right to name China’s bishops. Meanwhile, the Holy See still maintains formal diplomatic relations with the Nationalist government on Taiwan, a China card of its own that may someday be played in support of those Chinese Catholics who, in Pope John Paul II’s words this past December, "have not given in to a church that corresponds neither to the will of Christ, nor to the Catholic faith." The Pope suggests that his Chinese flock poses no threat to the civil authority if religious freedoms are respected. Meanwhile, Chinese Catholics are unusually prominent in the ongoing struggle for democratic rights. One thinks, for example, of the exiled activist (now an American citizen) Harry Wu, and of Martin Lee (once a British subject), Hong Kong’s most outspoken critic of Beijing’s plans for governing the city it has recently re-acquired. While the long view of China’s history may be consoling in providing instances of tolerance and cosmopolitanism, not just of repression and xenophobia, the most recent anti-Christian episodes in China are no less challenging than those faced by earlier generations of interested Westerners. Like the European arrivals in Beijing in the seventeenth century, we ponder whether there is any fundamental commensuration between the Chinese and Christian traditions and, if not, how then to develop long-term political and diplomatic strategies. In contemporary America, the question acquires political saliency by the day. The growing involvement of evangelical Christians in political life has mostly concerned domestic problems, but the same people are increasingly active internationally in proselytizing and in humanitarian work. But many of these are people who are also associated with a kind of isolationist outlook that takes as its point of departure a rejection of the legitimacy of most trans-national political and economic arrangements subsumed under "the new world order." The rejection extends not only to the instrumentalities of the United Nations but, oftentimes, to workaday arrangements for international trade and communication. Yet, in this regard, the most influential of their predecessors who worked in China saw few distinctions between the secular and religious components of their activity. Their Christian militancy, far from being in opposition to the Wilsonian world vision, was for the most part an affirmation of it. As in the case of John Leighton Stuart, a man could be both ardently anti-Communist, devoutly religious, and ardently Wilsonian at one and the same time; after all, Woodrow Wilson himself was all of these. But this particular understanding of the secular and the religious is far older than that. America’s first Protestant missionary in China was Elijah Coleman Bridgman, who was sent there in l829 and who, for many years, wrote extensively both in English about China and in Chinese about the United States. Michael Lazich, who has made a study of these writings, concludes that Bridgman viewed the worldwide expansion of human knowledge as a key part of universal redemption. And even in his day, he saw an emerging international order, under which all nations would enjoy equal rights and be bound by equal responsibilities, as a natural accompaniment of the prophesied Christian millennium. Obviously, these notions worked their way through the American political system, producing great debates about the country’s role in world affairs. Insofar as the involvement of American Christians in the problems of China is concerned, the nineteenth-century outlook, so powerful in shaping attitudes in the first half of the twentieth century, seems not to have much purchase on the eve of the twenty-first. Rather, the emerging China-related political program of contemporary Christian activists seems curiously disembodied. If it seeks only tolerance for Christian believers in China, then the case for it, as a political/legal matter, can derive only from that vast compilation of international treaties and covenants which define American-style civil and human rights in a multinational context. If their program seeks also the larger renovation of China’s political regime, such that it respects these norms out of conviction, not out of occasional expediency, then the arguments for the larger "engagement" of China cannot be so readily dismissed. But, in fact, the fundamental premise of the concern has also changed. Previous generations of committed Christians were pro-Chinese, disturbed by China’s weaknesses and determined to eliminate them. Today’s activists, to the extent that any well-thought-out position has actually crystallized among them, think that China has already become too strong, and that greater Sino-American intimacy will make China stronger still. Powerfully expressed concerns for the welfare of Chinese Christians could well improve their lot from time to time, but will also disrupt Sino-American relations to some degree, thereby constraining American contributions to the growth of Chinese power. Strategic analysis aside, the assertion of an American interest in Chinese affairs that is Christian in its origin is apt to have complex consequences. If it proceeds from the idea of the United States as a "Christian nation," it will certainly depart from our well-established convictions about the way in which world peace might be secured, contributing instead to a sense that current struggles are indeed the manifestation of irreducible conflicts among religions, cultures, and civilizations. But if it proceeds on the basis of an ecumenism, either secular or religious, it must confront its current estrangement from the more conventional ways the country has managed its international relations. Can we imagine America’s evangelical Christians returning to their internationalist one-world roots and concluding that "the new world order," much of which is their creation in the first place, is their friend and not their enemy? Meanwhile, as we have been doing for centuries, we must continue to calculate the West’s ability to make a forceful impression on the East. In past eras of Western self-confidence, even self-certitude, the consequences of our interventions were often profound, but never quite what we had in mind when we started. As for the United States in particular, if, in its present condition of confusion and self-doubt, it embarks again on a China mission, the country will be hard-pressed to equal even the ambiguous success of its prior crusades. Charles Horner is Senior Fellow at the Hudson Institute in Washington, D.C.

Posted by: Viren Jul 28 2005, 11:27 AM

Posted by: GDiwan Jul 29 2005, 08:24 AM

Chrisitian Schools Extorting Non-Christians- in a bid to convert poor

Madhya Pradesh police has arrested a priest on the charge of discriminating against children of other religions, thus, encouraging conversions through inducement. The bait: School management would charge less fees from the one who adopted Christianity. The Narendra Prasad Committee, in its recently submitted report, had stated that the Christian population in the Jhabua District had gone up by 80 per cent in the past two decades. The accused - Fr PT Thomas, director of the St Michael School, run by the Catholic mission at Jhaparda village in Meghnagar tehsil of Jhabua district, the police said, has been arrested under the Freedom of Religion Act on Thursday night after some tribal parents that the school management was charging higher admission fees from non-Christians. "After investigation, it was found that the complaint was genuine and thus action was taken", Superintendent of Police Umesh Joga said. “The management had offered the inducement to reduce the fees if they adopted Christianity”, the parents complained. Add to it, “Since the school management had not replied to a show-cause notice within the stipulated three days, steps were being taken to cancel the school's recognition”, informed District Education Officer BG Mehta. Meanwhile, the Catholic Diocese of Jhabua spokesman Fr Joseph Thail while condemning the action taken by administration without proper investigation stated that the Catholics of Jhabua are stunned by the action taken against Fr Thomas. The Catholics, he said, have been serving humanity in tribal areas in the field of education, health and others for over a century and there has been no instance of forcible conversion by Catholic missionaries or its priests. He threatened to close the missionary school if Catholics are targeted unnecessarily. Meanwhile, the VHP has demanded a CBI inquiry into the activities of Christian missionaries and de-recognition of the school.

Posted by: k.ram Jul 29 2005, 11:04 AM

Tirupathi on Evangelist Hit-List Author: Sandhya Jain Publication: Organiser Date: July 24, 2005 Evangelists are targetting the sacred site of Tirumala and in a direct affront to the Hindu community, which has for centuries regarded all seven hills as holy, have starting gathering on the slopes in groups for public prayers. Even though an officer of the State-controlled Tirumala Tirupati Devasathanam (TTD) which manages the world famous Venkateshwara temple has denied that a missionary society has submitted a proposal to build a church on the hills, there is widespread disbelief on account of the known biases of Chief Minister Samuel Reddy. The denials by TTD special officer A.V. Dharma Reddy follow reports in leading Telugu newspapers such as Eenadu and television channels like ETV, Teja TV, Gemini TV and Sun TV. Former Chief Minister Chandra Babu Naidu, who was reportedly tipped off by informed sources in the Secretariat, has strongly condemned the move, as has the state BJP. What lends credence to Hindu fears is the despicable statement by the Government official that the TTD temple owns only 10.33 sq. miles of land on the hills, and this land is administered by the mandir trust. This is a transparent ploy to deny the sacred character of all seven hills in their entirety, and restrict the sacred site of the Hindu community to the formal boundary of the extant temple of Lord Venkateshwara. Clearly we are witnessing the development of a major assault upon one of the most venerated sites of the Hindu community. Should it happen, it will be a desecration at par with that of the Mylapore Shiva temple in Chennai. Hitherto, there has never been any question of a structure other than the shrine of Lord Venkateshwara on these hills, and it bears remembering that it is the hills that are holy and not merely the mandir which adorns them. For instance, a temple along a busy thoroughfare would be holy, but the adjacent land would not be deemed sacred. Thus, the attempt to limit the sacredness of Tirumala to the boundary of the temple, i.e. 10.33 sq. miles, is suspicious and suggests that the State Government may be preparing the ground for landing over land to a church body on one of the slopes. This is consistent with the systematic defilement of Hindu institutions since the UPA became ascendant in national life, as witnessed in the harassment of the Kanchi Shankaracharya and Bal Shankaracharya, and attempts to take over prominent Hindu temples. What lends urgency to Hindu fears is the fact that six large churches have already sprung up on the road to Tirumala (Bye-pass road and new Bye-pass road) that leads to Alipiri, the foot of the hills. It is therefore imperative that the State Government recognize the entire seven hills as the sacred abode of Shri Venkateshwara, and ensure that no structure of any other religion is allowed to come up there. Hindu activists in the region point out that when Ms. Sonia Gandhi violated the rules and entered the sanctum sanctorum of Tirumala Tirupati Devasathanam some years ago, without signing the mandatory declaration for practitioners of other religions; she was facilitated in this outrage by the then TTD executive officer Ajay Kallam. The activists point out that according to the local bush telegraph, Mr. Ajay Kallam and some of his family members converted to Christianity some time ago, and this fact may have some bearing on some of their public actions. For instance, Mr. Kallam sought to auction hundred acres of land belonging to the Hathi Ramji Matham (Tirumala) a year ago, and it was only with difficulty that the auction was eventually cancelled. The point being made is that it is a terrible sacrilege that State control of Hindu holy sites enables non-Hindus to seize control of major temples and run them according to an undisclosed agenda. Non-believers have infiltrated critical areas of these institutions. It is already a matter of considerable concern that the enormous revenues of Hindu temples in south India are being misused to fund the Hajj subsidy and renovate churches, while temples and priests remain starved of basic funds. Now more than ever before there is need to expedite the return of the temples to the community. According to field activists, an official scrutiny of lands and properties acquired by evangelical organizations may shed interesting light upon a phenomenon best dubbed as 'colonization through land ownership.' The value of the properties and the costs of the gigantic bureaucracies associated with them would be an eye-opener. It is instructive, for instance, to drive through the Coromandel Coast from Vishakapatnam to Toottukkudi, and observe the plethora of churches proliferating along the route; most are new constructions. A journey to Guntur and Eluru may be similarly instructive. The Andhra Pradesh Government is a wholly unsuitable custodian of Tirupathi and must be made to surrender control of this holy shrine. Some time ago it condoned the demolition of the 550-year old Thousand Pillar Temple for no good reason. A Government that lacks the sense of the sacrality of the seven hills which have been regarded as a tirthasthanam and devasthanam from time immemorial cannot be allowed to preside over its destiny.

Posted by: Mudy Aug 1 2005, 10:26 AM

QUOTE Mother Teresa charity says ties children for safety 31 Jul 2005 14:32:30 GMT Source: Reuters By Krittivas Mukherjee NEW DELHI, July 31 (Reuters) - A charity founded by Mother Teresa said on Sunday disabled children at one of its homes in India were restrained for their own safety, after a British television reporter filmed children tied to their beds. Britain's Five News, in a programme to be broadcast on Monday, said it had uncovered "serious shortcomings" at a care centre run by the Missionaries of Charity in Calcutta. It secretly filmed many of the 59 children -- aged six months to 12 years -- living at the Daya Dan shelter tied by their ankles to their cots at night, restrained while being fed and left for up to 20 minutes on the toilet by their carers. In a statement, Five News said it began investigating the home after hearing complaints from international aid workers. The global order of nuns said on Sunday its charitable homes only tied children when absolutely necessary. "Physical restraints are used only when absolutely necessary for the safety of the child ... for limited periods of time," a Missionaries of Charity statement faxed to Reuters said. "We value constructive criticism and admit that there is always room for improvement." A spokeswoman for the order, Sister Christie, told Reuters by phone from Calcutta: "It (the tying) happens only when we see the child could be hurt. It's about their safety. "The children are sometimes tied because they keep waving their hands and moving when being fed. Also they could fall off (the cots) while sleeping at night." Five News reporter Donal MacIntyre said: "I was truly shocked by what I found at the Daya Dan centre. There are strategies for looking after disabled children that minimise stressful situations, and, as a result of poor training and lack of resources, staff are resorting to inhumane practises such as tying children up." Five News said: "The shocking footage reveals that despite receiving millions of pounds in donations every year, there is little evidence of its investment at the centres Donal visited." Daya Dan was set up in 1998, a year after the death of Mother Teresa, who adopted Calcutta as the centre of her global charitable order that now runs more than 750 centres across the world. The Missionaries of Charity, famous for working among the sick, destitute and dying, said it was committed to serving the ideals of Mother Teresa and improving the quality of care in Daya Dan. Nobel Peace Prize winner Mother Teresa, who founded the order in 1950 in Calcutta, died in 1997 at the age of 87. (Additional reporting by Kamil Zaheer)

Posted by: aruni Aug 7 2005, 04:43 PM

Posted by: Manu Aug 15 2005, 08:31 PM

By Simon Denyer CAMP HEBRON, Nagaland, India, Aug 14 (Reuters) - A folk singer in army fatigues sang of God and the Naga nation, with a trace of Neil Young in his voice. Soldiers marched past stiff-legged, splashing in the slush of the grassy parade ground, marking "independence day" on Sunday for the Naga hill tribes of northeastern India. Fifty-eight years ago, just hours before India won independence from Britain, Christian Naga separatists from these lush hills declared they did not want to be part of the new Hindu-dominated nation. Every year they renew that call. In Camp Hebron, headquarters of the main rebel faction, the National Socialist Council of Nagaland, traditional dancers in shawls, beads and extravagant head-dresses chanted and jumped close to a bamboo and thatch Baptist church. Two young Naga women in green fatigues and blue berets stood to attention, rifles and bayonets pointing up at the sky and the sky-blue Naga flag fluttering above them, emblazoned with a rainbow and a star. "How can Hindus control us?" asked 22-year Sergeant Woreishang Shinglai, the cross and olive branches on the lapels on his uniform a reminder of his faith. "We have the right to be a separate nation, and I am prepared to fight to my last drop of blood." For five decades Naga tribesmen fought the Indian army in these thickly forested mountains, before agreeing to a ceasefire in 1997. By then, India's oldest insurgency, in its remote northeastern arm, had cost more than 20,000 lives. Eight years on, the Naga rebels are increasingly frustrated with the lack of progress in peace talks with New Delhi, which they suspect of playing for time. In July, rebels extended the ceasefire for just six months, instead of a year. It was a clear signal. FIERCE FIGHTERS The government of India would not be allowed "to slumber for six or seven months and only wake up when the ceasefire was about to expire," said Lieutenant-General V.S. Atem, the most senior rebel living in India. "A ceasefire cannot just go on permanently, it is meant for finding a solution to the problem," he warned. The Nagas are ready to return to the battlefield if they have to. In Camp Hebron, rebels mill around with smart new uniforms, carrying automatic rifles and sub-machine guns (coming from where?). But there are also signs of wealth, cars and comfort which make some ordinary Nagas wonder if the cadres are going soft. "We are ready for any hardship," counters Sergeant-Major Aphung Khamrang, her pink nail varnish and warm smile in contrast to her words. "When I was a child I saw my father beaten by the Indian army for giving shelter to the undergrounds. Our parents suffered a lot and we are prepared to sacrifice also." It is not an idle threat. The Nagas have a fierce reputation as fighters, and were headhunters before the British arrived in the 19th century with American baptist missionaries in their wake. The British, Nagas say, divided their lands unfairly. A third of the three million Nagas now live outside the Indian state of Nagaland, in neighbouring states and in Myanmar. Today, the rebels are demanding the reunification of all Naga-dominated territory into a single "Nagalim" or Nagaland. Eight years of peace have allowed the NSCN to extend its control over Naga society, but in a sense the long ceasefire may have also backed it into a corner. With little to show from the negotiations, the movement may be losing focus. Many, many Nagas still support the dream of independence, but not necessarily the fighters who claim to represent them but only show up to demand "taxes". More importantly, perhaps, the rebels are divided into three factions, and their popularity has plummeted as a result. Some see a return to war as the only way out. "Most of my friends don't want the ceasefire," said Sergeant-Major Sangchiu Shiu. "They have just joined to use arms, and they want to go and face the Indians. "But we cannot build our nation from the extremist point of view. I believe political dialogue can liberate us."

Posted by: k.ram Aug 18 2005, 09:59 AM

California Telugu Church: "The Goal is to Get Hindus to Convert to Christianity"

QUOTE By Jonathan Jones, STAFF WRITER 08/12/2005 03:11:25 AM Inside Bay Area In the late 1800s, American Baptist missionaries descended on Southern India to share the gospel of Jesus Christ with the local Indian population. Now, 160 years later, Sam Babu Byrapogu sees his mission in the Bay Area the same way. As pastor of the new Christian Telugu Church in Fremont, Byrapogu said he intends to share the gospel with the local Indian population living here. "We want to each reach out to non-Christians, meet with them, and share the gospel," Byrapogu said. "The goal is to get Hindus to convert to Christianity. I want to share what Jesus Christ did for my life experiences." Last weekend, the Christian Telugu Church was to celebrate its grand opening at the Thornton Avenue Baptist Church at 4500 Thornton Ave. The events were to include inspirational messages and a concert, and then a special service at 5 p.m. Sunday to mark the culmination of six months of groundwork to establish an ethnic Telugu Christian church. The grand opening was to be one of two Christian events in Fremont this weekend aimed at reaching out to the Bay Area's 125,000 Indian-Americans. Also Sunday, the Catholic Diocese of Oakland was to host an India Day celebration at 3:30 p.m. at Holy Spirit Catholic Church in central Fremont, where portions of the Mass will be celebrated in Hindi and Tamil. Commenting on the Christian Telugu Church, Burlingame resident Uli Chettipally — whose grandfather became a pastor in India as a result of American Baptist missionaries there — said there was a need to reach out to local Indian Christian community. He said he hopes the new 50-member church serves as a gathering place for Telugu Christians. "I felt no one was catering to that segment of the population," Chettipally said. "There is a difference between an American church and a typical Indian church. People want to go to a church with a pastor that speaks their language." The New Community Church of Burlingame and Thornton Avenue Baptist Church put up $25,000 for the project. When the American Baptist Churches of the West, an association of 215 congregations in Nevada and Northern California, matched that amount, organizers began looking for a pastor. Church organizers had met the 49-year-old Byrapogu at a Baptist pastors' conference last July and believed he would be a good fit. After working as a pastor of a 2,000-member church in the south-central Indian city of Hyderabad, Chettipally said he is confident that Byrapogu has the vision and experience to help the new church grow. "We wanted someone with experience and someone who could communicate clearly in the (Telugu) language," Chettipally said. "Of course, we also needed someone who was willing to come here." Bruce Stryd, pastor of Thornton Avenue Baptist Church, said he expects the Telugu Church to grow to about 250 members within three years. "We're expecting they'll be financially self-sufficient in three years," Stryd said. "It's fairly ambitious, but we're so pleased to have the church meet here and we think Pastor Sam will do a lot to get the ball rolling."

Posted by: Mudy Aug 18 2005, 12:31 PM Jerry Sutton statement during Justics-2 Fillibuster "Most religious nation on earth is India and most irreligious nation is Sweden. We are nation of Indians ruled by Swedes" biggrin.gif

Posted by: vishnua Aug 19 2005, 08:45 AM Search for below it is a PPt What Motivated the Early Christian Health Missions? Anatomy of Transformation in India Vinod Shah or try this

Posted by: Manu Aug 23 2005, 01:01 PM

I believe that the THE 6TH COMMANDMENT IS : "thou shalt not kill" Maybe someone ought to tell this Christian Jehadi:

CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuela's vice president accused religious broadcaster Pat Robertson on Tuesday of making "terrorist statements" by suggesting that American agents assassinate President Hugo Chavez. On Monday, Robertson said on the Christian Broadcast Network's "The 700 Club": "We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability." "We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," he continued. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with." Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel said Venezuela was studying its legal options, adding that how Washington responds to Robertson's comments would put its anti-terrorism policy to the test. "The ball is in the U.S. court, after this criminal statement by a citizen of that country," Rangel told reporters. "It's huge hypocrisy to maintain this discourse against terrorism and at the same time, in the heart of that country, there are entirely terrorist statements like those." The U.S. government distanced itself from Robertson's comments. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, appearing at a Pentagon news conference, said when asked: "Our department doesn't do that kind of thing. It's against the law. He's a private citizen. Private citizens say all kinds of things all the time." State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called Robertson's remarks "inappropriate." "This is not the policy of the United States government. We do not share his views," McCormack said. There was no immediate comment from Chavez, who was winding up an official visit to Cuba on Tuesday. Scores of journalists awaited Chavez at the airport, where he was to board a plane for a trip to Jamaica to discuss a Venezuela initiative to supply petroleum to Caribbean countries under favorable financial terms. Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous. "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. "It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... and I don't think any oil shipments will stop." Rangel called Robertson "a man who seems to have quite a bit of influence in that country," adding sarcastically that his words were "very Christian." The comments "reveal that religious fundamentalism is one of the great problems facing humanity in these times," Rangel said. Robertson's remarks appear likely to further stoke tensions between Washington and Caracas. Chavez has repeatedly claimed that American officials are plotting to oust or kill him — charges U.S. officials have denied. The United States is the top buyer of Venezuelan crude, but Chavez has made it clear he wants to decrease the country's dependence on the U.S. market by finding other buyers. Chavez has survived a brief 2002 coup, a devastating two-month strike that ended in early 2003 and recall referendum in 2004. The former army paratroop commander, a close ally of Cuban leader Fidel Castro, is up for re-election next year, and polls suggest he is the favorite.
"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said.

Posted by: Mudy Aug 23 2005, 07:03 PM

Now media is calling him "religious leader". Some are asking FCC to fine him. Lets see how they punish him, but I can see coverup already started. Think about, if same statement is said on media by some Mullah or Hindu in India.

Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 23 2005, 11:22 PM

Holyfield is in India. I saw his photo on ToI front page offering flowers at Gandhi Memorial or something.. Wonder what he is upto..

Posted by: k.ram Aug 24 2005, 02:19 AM

Sex abuse at orphanage Sanjeev K Ahuja Gurgaon, August 23, 2005 The Deepashram orphanage at Gurgaon - for mentally and physically challenged children - has found itself in a controversy after an Italian neurologist complained to the Vatican Embassy about sexual abuse of children at the home. The neurologist, Dr Franco, had worked as a volunteer at Deepashram, established by Mother Teresa in 1995, for six months a couple of years ago. Brothers Contemplative - the male wing of Missionaries of Charity - manages the home, which has 66 boys aged between 12 and 26. Franco registered his complaint at the Apostolic Nunciature, Chanakyapuri. Second secretary of the Apostolic Nunciature, Father Tomasz Grysa, said they received the "communication from Dr Franco" in February this year. The case has been referred to the hierarchical superiors of the Missionaries of Charity Brothers, Father Grysa said. At the orphanage, volunteers did not rule out the possibility of sexual abuse of younger inmates by the older ones. Brother Benedict, a volunteer from Rome, said: "If any case of this kind is reported to us, the guilty boys are punished." Abdullah, a 15-year-old inmate, said it was "common" for the older boys to sodomise the younger boys at night when no one was on guard. He accused a 24-year-old of sodomising a 12-year-old. "Bahut se bachche yahan par ganda kaam karte hain," he said. Brother Benedict and attendants dismissed the allegation. Abdullah was shifted from the children's home at Majnu Ka Tila to Gurgaon as he was a troublemaker, Brother Benedict said. Another volunteer at the orphanage, Dr Wanda Toso from San Raffele Hospital in Milan, told HT that Franco had also told her about child abuse at Deepashram. She, however, did not have any personal confirmation from the boys as she did not speak Hindi. "I have not been able to interact with the children," Toso said.

Posted by: Mudy Aug 24 2005, 08:22 AM

Abdullah, a 15-year-old inmate, said it was "common" for the older boys to sodomise the younger boys at night when no one was on guard. He accused a 24-year-old of sodomising a 12-year-old. "Bahut se bachche yahan par ganda kaam karte hain," he said.
Just to create pervert in India as they have done in rest of world.

Posted by: vishnua Aug 24 2005, 11:26 AM

QUOTE(rajesh_g @ Aug 24 2005, 11:52 AM)
Holyfield is in India. I saw his photo on ToI front page offering flowers at Gandhi Memorial or something.. Wonder what he is upto..
Holyfield was bought to india by K.A.Paul (Kilaru Anand Paul) who is rapid evangelist has hevay funding from US especially from TX and Midwest.. does get sometime on TV in shows like O'Riely etc.. Make no mistake about it . Every visit by these guys had one and only one purpose.. Visiting Gandhi Memorial etc..all are part psych ops in order to get more acceptance and eventually win more souls..

Posted by: Mudy Aug 25 2005, 12:16 PM


Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 31 2005, 02:54 PM

From: "vnr1995" Date: Thu Aug 25, 2005 3:09 pm Subject: Karlheinz Deschner on 20th cy Vatican vnr1995 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email A testimony submitted to the court in Bochum, Germany, in 1985 regarding primas Stepinac, Catholic Church, and the Serbian genocide in Croatia 1941-1943. A concise but devastating testimony about the genocide of Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia 1941-1943 is contained on pages 31-38 of the book by Karlheinz Deschner titled "Die beleidigte Kirche, oder: Wer stoert den oeffentlichen Frieden?" ("The offended Church, or: who is disturbing the public peace") and published by Ahriman-Verlag e.V. in Freiburg, Germany, in 1986, ISBN 3-922774-05-8. The book has apparently not been translated into English yet. I will first quickly introduce the book and then provide translation of pages 31-38. Deschner is a German historian who has published several other books on the history of the Catholic Church. This book contains his testimony submitted to the court in Bochum, Germany, in 1985 on behalf of a student of Medicine (name not published) in Bochum who has been accused of distributing a pamphlet where the Catholic Church is referred to as a "criminal organization". A public insult to the Church is punishable by a fine and by up to 3 years imprisonment by the Paragraph 166 of the German Criminal Law. (Since 1971 there have been several cases of prosecution based on Paragraph 166.) The foreword is provided by Gottfried Niemietz, the student's attorney. The appendix contains, among other things, the incriminating pamphlet and the charge laid out by the public prosecutor. The student has been aquitted upon submission of Deschner's testimony. Deschner's testimony, submitted under oath, states that the Church was not only guilty of the crimes in the Medieval Times, but also of quite recent ones and that the qualification "criminal organization" is quite appropriate. Deschner singles out the genocide over Serbs in the Independent State of Croatia from 1941 to 1943 (the following is translation of pages 31-38) "...I repeat: in purely quantitative terms, the Catholic Church has been burdened by more crimes in the 20-th than in any other century. In the following I will prove conclusively that only a few decades ago the Church was involved in murderous crimes that in their brutality surpass the worst massacres it committed during the Medieval Times. And yet, it appears to me that this most horrible scandal of Christianity of the 20-th century has remained an unknown fact in the Christian World. I refer to the catholic bloody orgies in the so-called "Independent State of Croatia" (Nezavisna Drzava Hrvatska, NDH) under Ante Pavelic between 1941 and 1943. 299 orthodox churches were ruined during this catholic crusade against the Serbian-Orthodox Church. The catholics have robbed them, destroyed, and some of them turned into storage places, public toilets and stables. Of the two million orthodox Serbs who lived in this state, 240000 were converted to Catholicism by force -- supposedly "without the least pressure from the state or Church authorities" (Osservatore Romano). In reality, not only that one quarter million people were converted to Catholicism by force, but also three quarter million orthodox Serbs were murdered by catholics; according to the lowest credible estimates the number is 600000, according to the highest it approaches one million. The men, women, and children were frequently dying in worse circumstances than animals. They were hunted down in streets and in the fields, in their homes and in the forests. "Good hunt today. 500 alltogether", reported Ustasha Commander von Vojnic. People were mass-murdered, whole villages wiped out, people ripped open with axes, thrown in the rivers, in the sea and under the ground. People were first forced into the churches and then they were either slain or burned alive. They were tortured in all possible ways, mostly during nightly orgies. They were speared through, put on stakes, cut apart, and their flesh was even conveniently stored in butcher-shops. The eyes, ears and noses of the orthodox were cut while they were still alive, and they were even buried alive. People were strangled, beheaded, and crucified. In Kosinj, a mother was even forced to collect the blood of her four sons in a dish. The orthodox patriarch Dr. Bozic and the bishops Dr. Velimirovic and Dr. Djordjevic were imprisoned and have disappeared from the public eye until 1945. Five other orthodox bishops were murdered. The eighty year old mitropolit of Sarajevo, Petar Simonic was strangled while the catholic bishop of the city Ivan Saric was writing odes in honour of Pavelic, the "praised Fuhrer". The eighty one year old bishop Platov from Banja Luka was horseshoed and then it was forced to walk until he lost consciousness; then he was stabbed while a fire was burning on his chest; finally, after his eyes, nose and ears were cut, he was shot to death. In Zagreb, the capital of Croatia, where primas Stepinac and Pope's legat Marcone held their residences, the orthodox mitropolit Dositej was tortured to insanity. In addition, at least 300 orthodox priests were slaughtered, sometimes in the cruelest ways, like the priests Dusan Subotic ot the priest Branko Dobrosavljevic, whose head was scalped, together with his beard, whose skin and eyes were cut off while his young son was literally cut into pieces. Even the fascists were shocked by the catholic terror. Around 600000 people were saved by the Italian troops, among them several thousand Jews who were eventually imrisoned and sent to Auschwitz. Even the German troups were repeatedly pressuring their allies the catholic Croats in order to protect the orthodox Serbs. Yes, the slaughters performed by the catholics in the "Great Croatia" were so horrible that protests were comming even from the high German positions, diplomats, generals, Nazi party leaders, even the Security Service of the SS. Finally, in his visit to Zagreb, even the Nazi secretary of foreign affairs von Ribentrop has conveyed greatest surprise of his government by the "horrible excesses". Hitler himself declared: "I will finish off with this Regime at some point -- but not yet". This Regime, whose amblem and weapon were "Bible and bomb next to each other" was from the beginning until the end a thoroughly catholic Regime very closely tied to the Catholic Church. The Dictator, Poglavnik Ante Pavelic, who was even before his reign of terror sentenced to death in absentia for murder by both Yugoslavia and France, and who has subsequently been "unanimously declared the greatest criminal of the year 1941" by the London weekly "New Review", was called a "devoted catholic" by primas Stepinac and "a practicing(!) catholic" by Pope Pius XII. As late as in 1943 the "Holy Father" would welcome him to his audiences, would keep sending him forth with the best wishes for "further work", and would bless him at his death. Hundreds of photos show this head of State, Government, and Party installed by Hitler and Mussolini, who, as bishop Stepinac emphasized, gave the Church "full freedom for action", among bishops, priests, monks and nunns. He had his own chapel in his Palace and his own Confessioner, and perhaps, this is my own suspicion, he confessed frequently like certain pious French princess who would confess, according to Voltaire, "as soon as she has committed a sinn, and she would confess often so that, the same way the gourmands take medicine, she would get a better appetite...". A priest was also taking care of Pavelic's children. Numerous clerics, including the bishop of Sarajevo, Ivan Saric, belonged to his party, the Ustashas, who continually kept the words God, Religion, Pope, and Church in their mouths. The Ustasha chaplains would make pledges of allegience in front of two candles, Crucifix, a dagger and a handgun. Bishops and priests sat in Sabor, the Ustasha-Parliament. Priests served as officers in Pavelic's body-guard. The catholic press of the State celebrated on every occasion "the new and free Croatia as a christian and a catholic State", witnessed the resurrection of the "Croatia of God and Maria from the old times", and saw "Christ and Ustashas, Christ and Croats..." marching "...together through the History", pledged loyalty to the God-sent Pavelic and hailed Adolf hitler as a "God's Crusader". "God, who reigns the destinies of nations and the hearts of kings, has sent us Ante Pavelic and the Fuhrer ... Glory to God, our gratefulness to Adolf Hitler, and our endless devotion to our Poglavnik, Ante Pavelic". The "missionary" method by which the "Croatia of God and Maria" would be installed was not kept secret. In his episcopal letter, bishop Saric demanded that Catholicism be proclaimed "with help of cannons, assault-riffles, tanks, and bombs". And the secretary of education Mile Budak, who also disclosed that "All our actions are based on our belief in religion and in the Catholic Church", repeated very frequently that "We will kill one part of the Serbs, expell the other, and the rest, who must convert to Catholicism, will be assimilated into the Croatian nation." That corresponded exactly to the prescription by Pavelic himself: "One third must become catholic, one third must leave the country, one third must die!" Only the third pint of their program did the catholic crusaders accomplish completely, with an active help of one part of the clergy. The priests, especially Jesuits, and even more the Franciscans led the armed murderous gangs, organized massacres, shouted "Down with Serbs!". They confessed using assault riffles "quite frequently"; declared that "the time has come for guns and handguns", that "it is not a sinn any more to kill even a seven-year old if he offends the Law of Ustashas". "To kill all the Serbs as soon as possible" is what Franciscan Military Vicar of the Ustashas Simic declared was "our Program" in front of the Italian General of the "Sessari Division" on May 21st, 1941. Franciscan Hermenegildo, alias Castimir Hermann arranged, together with the secretary of justice Mirko Puk, a bloodbath in the Church of Glina (Bosnia), which was turned into a slaughterhouse for eight days. "The slaughterers had to keep changing their uniforms because they would become too wet with blood. After the slaughter, one could find slaughtered children with hands still twisted from pain". Franciscans also served as hangmen in the Concentration Camps which were mushrooming in the "Independent State of Croatia", the "Croatia of God and Maria". The commander of the Concentration Camp Jasenovac, infamous because of its mass decapitations, was at one point Franciscan Filipovic-Majstorovic, so called "Brother Devil". Around 200000 Serbs and Jews were killed in Jasenovac. The Franciscan apprentice Brzica by himself decapitated with a special knife 1360 people during the night of August 29th 1942. It is therefore not an accident that in a memorandum to Vatican dated May 1943, where he praises Ustashas for their achievements, bishop Stepinac also acknowledges the role of the Croatian clergy and "above all the Franciscans". Alojzije Stepinac, the Croatian primas, readily collaborated with the criminal Regime and "easily recognized God's hand in his work". He encouraged a very close collaboration between the Episcopat and the Ustashas. Since January 1942 he also served as a Military Vicar. He authorised the Soldiers's Prayer Book "The Croatian State", full of hot prayers for the same. He sat with ten other clerics in the Ustasha-Parliament. He ordered the birthdays and namesdays of Pavelic, who decorated Stepinac in 1944 with a "Great Cross with a Star", celebrated in all the churches and also ordered that "Te Deum" be sang in his honour. Stepinac praised Pavelic in Vatican during the Masses, as a head of state and as a catholic, and justified not only the actions of the catholic State but also "the methods applied against the Jews". Of course, Vatican knew very well about the "Croatia of God and Maria", "The Christ's Kingdom". Stepinac had many meetings with Pius XII, state secretary Maglione, other cardinals, prelates, and with with the latter Pope Montini. If concerned, Vatican is very well informed even about much smaller events wherever in the world they occur. Should we believe that they did not know about the forced conversion to Catholicism of 240000 Serbs and about a murder of three quarter of million of Serbian christians that happened right in their neighborhood? The Italian newspapers were frequently giving the stories about it. The same holds for the British press and radio. All the allied governments filed their protests with the "Christ's Representative". Even the leaders of the catholic Slovenia wrote in a Memorandum dated March 1st, 1942: "In the Independent State of Croatia all the orthodox bishops are either murdered, imprisoned, or sent to Concentration Camps, their churches and residences destroyed or confiscated. The stated main goal of the politicians in Zagreb was to to wipe out the Serbian population in Croatia." The catholic bishop of Belgrade Dr. Ujcic, who was also on the list of recipients of this Memorandum, forwarded the "information about the massacre ... from a variety of sources ... to the Vatican". Bishop Spellman of New York, a close associate of the Pope who had four long audiences with him during the Spring of 1943, declared at that time repeatedly to Pope's secret service officer Prince Erwin Lobkowicz: "You cannot tell me anything new about your business. I am well informed about everything.". The acting secretary of state, Montini, latter Pope Paul VI, said to Lobkowicz at that time: "You cannot imagine how many protests are comming from Croatia itself because of the reprisals by Ustashas ... Is it possible that so much crime has been committed ?" The second man of the Curia, cardinal state secretary Maglione had "few good news" from Great Croatia, but he had "very cordial" meetings with its representative, encouraged him in the name of the "Holy Chair", and for him "Croatian meant the same as catholic" -- a quite sound identification, at least in 1942. Cardinal Maglione found lots of "priseworthy developments" in this Dorado of Murder, and acknowledged that "most respected bishops of Croatia" must have "strong feeling of responsibility in the current delicate (!) circumstances..." Perhaps the only prominent member of the Curia who confronted this catholic gang was (during these years quite isolated) cardinal Tisserant. Ustasha representative Prince Lobkowicz declared him as "Enemy!" and wrote that after Tisserant's "accusations of Croatia" one "could not maintain any relations with him" but did not forget to acknowledge that the "Holy Father ... does not share Tisserant's views on the political situation...". Of course, the infamous "representative" had also direct contacts with the Croatian "Kingdom of God". Not only the primas Stepinac who would appear repeatedly in Vatican. Also the Professor of Theology Krunoslav Draganovic, the connection man between Stepinac and the Curia, member of the Committee for Conversion and chaplain in the "Deathcamp" Jasenovac, Pavelic's companion on his escape to Latin America! (of course, via Rome!). Also the Benedictine Giuseppe Ramiro Marcone, whom Pius XII, on Pavelic's namesday, nominated a "visitator" and sent as a representative of the Curia Zagreb, where he remained until the day Tito's troups took the city. Of course, Croatia also had its own office in Vatican. And finally, the Secretariat of the State was in possession of the photo albums of massacres and mass conversions, allegedly around 8000 photographs, perhaps including the one made by Itallians that shows an Ustasha with two chains made of human tongues and eyes hanging around his neck. At that time, His Holiness himself gave the Croatians one audiency after the other, Ustasha-secretaries, Ustasha-generals, Ustasha-diplomats. The first representative of Croatia in Vatican Father Segvic confers that the Pope was interested "most of all" about "the events in Croatia". The Pope gave a "special blessing" to the third Representative Lobkowicz. He took care to "satisfy any demand by Ustashas", he was welcoming their representatives with extraordinary honors and also gave an audiency to the Ustasha-Youth who on their uniforms had a large "U" with an exploding bomb painted within it and with the words "Long live the Croats!"... While the Serbs were dying, around 750000, to repeat once again, after most horrible tortures -- 10 to 15 percent of the population of Great Croatia. Enough for now! I will give all the evidence in the second volume of "One Century of Holy History" ("Ein Jahrhundert Heilsgeschichte"). I emphasize: for quarter of a century now I am disseminating this horror history in my books, articles, speeches, etc., both domestically and abroad, and until now I have not encountered any credible corrections. In addition, my Yugoslav translator Dr. Milan Petrovic, Lecturer of State Law at the University of Nis, has most recently, during translation into Serbocroatian, renamed the volume mentioned above into "Catholic Slaughters in Croatia or, The Kingdom of God", a more telling title. Except for a few mistakes in names and a few imprecise titles, he has verified the complete data presented in both volumes..."

Posted by: Sudhir Aug 31 2005, 06:19 PM

Dr. John Dayal Member: National Integration Council Government of India National President: All India Catholic Union (Founded 1919) Secretary General: All India Christian Council 505 Link, 18 IP Extn. Delhi 110092 India Email: johndayal@... 26 August 2005 Dr Manmohan Singh Prime Minister of India Chairman, National Integration Council Mew Delhi Re: Agenda for the inaugural meeting of the NIC on 31st August 2005 Greetings The Christian Community of India, and specially its Dalit and marginalised sections, congratulate the Government of India, acting on your commitment, for reconstituting the National Integration Council, and convening its meeting after a gap of more than 13 years. The reconstitution of the NIC had been received with great hope and enthusiasm by the Minority communities and general and the Christian community in particular as its cries of anguish had gone unheard in the corridors of governance and administration for much the last decade. The hope was the greater because of several other welcome steps taken by your Government, including the setting up the National Commission on Minority Educational Institutions, the Rangnath Commission on backwardness among linguistic and religious groups, and the Justice Sachchar Commission to evaluate the economic condition of Muslims in India. It is therefore that we received the Agenda papers of the NIC meeting with great disappointment and some alarm. Some of us hope to present to the inaugural Council meeting a Paper on `A Christian perspective on National Integration' reflecting our anxieties and expectations, and our great faith in the nurture and security of democracy in our great country. But we feel obliged to challenge now certain basic assumptions in the Agenda papers which reflect insensitivity, to say the least, if not pre-conceived notions about our work, that seems to be a carryover from the past NDA government. The agenda draftsmen of papers seem to believe that forcible and fraudulent conversions (to Christianity) are the main cause of civil unrest in tribal and other rural areas. This is a malicious myth propagated by obscurantist and fundamentalist - and often violent - political groups and their frontal organisations of a well known exclusivist ideology which believed in the thesis of One nation, One people, One Culture" totally negating the Indian reality of Unity and Diversity. The lie has been perpetrated for decades without evidence. Nuns have been raped, Priests murdered, churches attacked and believers harassed under the umbrella of this lie. No court, no state government and no district administration ahs been able to adduce a straw of evidence to prove fraudulent and forcible conversions. On the contrary, forcible and often violence `ghar wapsi' programs by criminal gangs have been the norm in the tribal belt. And yet state governments have fortified Anti-Conversion laws till they totally erode all Constitutional Guarantees of Freedom of faith and come dangerously close to India seemingly rejecting InterNational Charters of Freedom to which it is a proud signatory. We would have expected the Inaugural NIC Agenda to be more focused and holistic, reflecting the National concern at the hijacking of the educational system, the communalization of the body fabric including the police force and the subordinate judiciary (as pointed out by the highest police and judicial officers in the land), the hunger deaths in various states, and finally, the collusion of the state and political apparatus in Gujarat, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Jharkhand, in the victimization of the religious minorities. We also expected the Government to promise to give Statutory and Constitutional shape to the National Integration Council, to give it at least a permanent and powerful Secretariat. I am sure you will look into it. God bless you, you Government, and God bless India With warm regards John Dayal

Posted by: Mudy Aug 31 2005, 08:37 PM

John Dayal had problem with BJP ruled state idiot is promoting Dalit caste in christianity, what a fraud is this b*******?

Posted by: RaoC Sep 1 2005, 02:53 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Apr 17 2005, 08:28 PM)
My Northeast India Mission of 2003-4 - by Stephen Knapp You have to understand that the Christian missionaries and militants have been working for years to bring most of the states of the northeast to secede from India to become a separate Christian country, even if it means by force and brutality. For example, few people seem to be aware that in the small state of Tripura alone, over 10,000 people have been killed in the past 20 years by Christian militants through what you could call ethnic cleansing. The killing is done to instill fear in those who are not Christian, or who do not want to separate from India. And these militants are often supported by the Christian groups who provide money and reasoning for what they do. But we in the VFA are not anti- Christian, yet this sort of Christian indoctrination is the single biggest factor for losing the basic traditions of the people in the northeast region. I wonder why this and Kashmir are hardly ever mentioned in the Western press. The Gujarat riots were eagerly covered by the BBC. Benjamin

Posted by: RaoC Sep 1 2005, 02:56 PM

QUOTE(Mudy @ Apr 17 2005, 08:28 PM)
My Northeast India Mission of 2003-4 - by Stephen Knapp You have to understand that the Christian missionaries and militants have been working for years to bring most of the states of the northeast to secede from India to become a separate Christian country, even if it means by force and brutality. For example, few people seem to be aware that in the small state of Tripura alone, over 10,000 people have been killed in the past 20 years by Christian militants through what you could call ethnic cleansing. The killing is done to instill fear in those who are not Christian, or who do not want to separate from India. And these militants are often supported by the Christian groups who provide money and reasoning for what they do. But we in the VFA are not anti- Christian, yet this sort of Christian indoctrination is the single biggest factor for losing the basic traditions of the people in the northeast region. I wonder why this and Kashmir are hardly ever mentioned in the Western press. The Gujarat riots were eagerly covered by the BBC. Benjamin
javascript:emoticon(':blink:') smilie It is not clear as to who is more dangerous the muslims or the christians. But it is clear that war-mongering pakkis are bent on using arms-race and their hate-mongering foot-soldiers inside India to drain our economy and keep riots and violence going year after, decade after decade. For many centuries after muslim invasion, we have lost our lands, women's honor, our lives and even basic right to live [considering 10 deaths for the remarks of JERRY FALWELL and many riotous violence like in Godhra, Marad, buses, trains, temples, ..etc.] and worship as our way of life [as we are lynched during street festivities for Ganesh or Hanuman]. For a mere unused bldg called babri ruins, more than 200 of our lives were taken. Was there anyone that was brought to jjavascript:emoticon(':blink:') smilieustice? Was there any compensation to our victims of their religious hatred? Probably not. PLEASE READ ON AS TO WHAT EVEN MUSLIMS FEEL ABOUT OUR CONDITION- Posted by Fareena Raza on Sep 1, 2005 Rudra-ji, In their bid to be civil and civilised, those of Hindu faith and those in BJP/VHP/RSS ..that "want Hinduism to be represented in good light by a group on religious tolerance," have been putting up with wide-spread and frequent savage violence for over eight centuries. It is time to say "enough is enough," as IBSM does often. If I were in the shoes of IBSM, I'd be offended and can’t take your domination, "in all earnestness in the right spirit." I feel Hindus have accepted enough domination for very many centuries, anyways. IBSM, Keep "your handle here on Sulekha." It is the minority that "sends a very negative message about (their) religious tolerance." Don't take minority have "any good intentions," either, because their conversion spree constitutes major intolerance. Mr Hugo Chevez is taking legal action against Robertson who was dangerously vile against him. ###"Venezuela Wants Pat Robertson CARACAS, Venezuela, Aug. 29, 2005 The Rev. Jesse Jackson (left) embraces President Hugo Chavez (right) in Caracas. Jackson says Pat Robertson's call for Chavez' assassination was "a criminal act." (AP) "We could offer him free psychiatric treatment ... but he could be a lost case." Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, on possibly asking the U.S. to extradite Pat Robertson to Venezuela" Given this, VHP, BJP... should be taking legal action against those who caused ten deaths in India (NOT in any of 60+ islamist nations) for the foul remarks of another christian, Jerry Falwell. Did the families of those Indian victims of religious (muslim) hatred and intolerance get any sort of compensation? How about those *often* stoned by savage muslims during Ganesh ceremonies?

Posted by: acharya Sep 3 2005, 04:15 PM

Do not criticise elected government, minorities told Special Correspondent It will be preposterous to question the sincerity of the Government: NCM chief JAIPUR: The Chairman of the National Commission for Minorities, Tarlochan Singh, on Saturday called upon the minority communities to discard the habit of criticising democratically elected governments with constant complaints of "perceived discrimination.'' He said the fear psychosis created among the minorities would harm them in the long run. Mr. Singh was interacting with reporters during his visit to attend a function of the Sikh Sangat here. [/size]He said minorities had no right to denounce the elected governments as the latter had the people's mandate in their favour. "Holding the Government or the ruling party responsible for communalism in the society is improper,'' he said.[/size] Mr. Singh — who is also a Rajya Sabha MP — pointed out that an elected government was answerable to the people at large irrespective of who voted for it and a Chief Minister was duty-bound to fulfil the aspirations of the entire population of the State. It would be preposterous to question the sincerity of the Government, he said. The Minorities Commission chief said he had led a delegation of Muslims that met the Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, in the aftermath of violence in 2002, when Muslims had announced boycott of the Bharatiya Janata Party-led Government. The grievances of the community were settled in a "congenial atmosphere'' with his intervention. On the observations of the Prime Minister's high-level committee that visited Rajasthan recently to study the socio-economic and educational status of Muslims, Mr. Singh said he did not find any atmosphere of fear, distrust or terror among Muslims in the State.

Posted by: G.Subramaniam Sep 9 2005, 04:38 PM

Advani and BJP leaders in cahoots with xtian missionaries The Triple A-Team: Antonia-Advani-Adventists Posted September 7, 2005 05 Sept, 2003 TN Govt Issues instructions to carry out the Ministry of Home Affair’s Leave the Country Notice, to the District Collector, Dharmapuri (From 2 July to 05 Sept: It takes 2 months before TN Govt reacts to such a crucial order) 24 Sept, 2003 Dist Collector, Dharmapuri instructs the SP, Dharmapuri to carry out the notice of Ministry of Home Affairs and the State Government of Tamil Nadu. 20 Oct, 2003 SP to Inspector of Police, Mathigiri, Hosur to carry out the instructions and inform him the date and flight numbers, once the two people are deported. (Did the SP do anything to retract the earlier recommendation made by him on 01 Sept on the extension of Ron and Dorothy Watt’s stay? Did the Inspector notify the details of flight, date etc to the SP?– None) It becomes clear that before the order is served on Ron and Dorothy Watts, they are “well informed of one such order from one of these official sources” and they "escape" to USA and get new visas from the Indian Embassy, Washington dated 30/09/2003 and 22/10/2003, visas valid upto 2008. Is the Indian Embassy at Washington aware of the deportation order issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs, Govt of India on Ron and Dorothy Watts? Did the Ministry of External Affairs inform our Embassies abroad on this Leave the Country notice on these two people, with their travel document details etc? Are not our Embassies supposed to be our extension of Government offices located in foreign lands? It is stated in Adventist circles that Ron Watts met with Lalit Mansingh, our Ambassador to USA. (The Adventists have been courting him since 2001. He has been the special guest to the General Conference of the Seventh Day Adventists on 11 Oct, 2001, where he was felicitated). Lalit Mansingh visits Seventh Day Adventists World HQ at Silversprings, Maryland, USA on Oct 11, 2001 This is what the Indian Ambassador to USA, Lalit Mansingh told the Adventists in their HQ: "This is not to say that there are never instances of religious intolerance in India," he added, referring to a 1999 incident where a Baptist missionary and his two sons were killed by militant Hindus in the state of Orissa. "There will always be the lunatic fringe that is intolerant. But the redeeming aspect to this is that these actions [in Orissa] were widely and strongly condemned by mainstream Indian society. And not just by Christians, but by members of many different religions who are continuing India's long tradition of tolerance and respect for all religions." Did Lalit Mansingh help Ron and Dorothy get their new Visas? Was he aware of the deportation orders on these two or was the information not sent to our embassies? Or did he go ahead with issuance of Visas just like that? Or did he act on orders received from higher ups from Delhi? Like the instance of Rahul and his girl friend helped by a friendly Brajesh Mishra to get away from detention in the Logan Airport, Boston, USA? 30 Sept 2003 Ron Watts obtains Business Visa from our Embassy in Washington, USA. 22 Oct 2003 Dorothy Watts obtains Visa from our Embassy in Washington, USA. (They return to India with their new Visas. It is alleged that Ron Watts even got a "new passport" from the Canadian embassy in India for this purpose). It is widely talked in the SDA circles that Lalit Mansingh was one of the key persons for fecilitating the meeting between Ron Watts and Advani during early Nov, 2003. Other facilitators of this meeting are Kim Gangte, the first Adventist MP in Lok Sabha representing outer Manipur constituency and it is whispered in the Adventists circles of "funds" routed to BJP leaders through a high profile MP known as the key fixer in BJP political circles. 30 Oct 2003 The Inspector of Police, Mathigiri, Hosur serves the notice on Ron and Dorothy Watts on 30 Oct 2003, when they have already returned to India with new Visas valid upto 2008 (Please note that the Visas have been obtained from the Indian Embassy in Washington, before the Leave the Country notice was officially served on them) 31 Oct, 2003 Ron and Dorothy Watts file two independent petitions before the HC Madras to quash the Notices served on them by the SP and the State of Tamil Nadu. Early Nov, 2003 Kim Gangte, MP, Lok Sabha from Imphal (Manipur) the first Adventist to be elected to Parliament leads a delegation of Adventists which includes Ron Watts and meets with Deputy PM and Minister of Home Affairs, L K Advani at New Delhi. Dorothy Watts is the interviewer. Kim Gangte meets LK Advani along with a delegation of Church leaders. There is no reference to the presence of Ron Watts in the delegation that met L K Advani in this interview. But some Adventists swear that he was also in the delegation, which is proved by a photo of this meeting with L.K.Advani in the subsequent issue of their internal magazine. This photo features Gangte, Ron Watts and L.K.Advani. Copy of the photo will be uploaded. Late Nov, 2003 Ron Watts and Kim Gangte attend the Executive Committee meeting of the South Asia Division of the Seventh Day Adventists. During the meeting both proclaim openly: "All the problems with the Govt of India are sorted out". A member of the Executive Committee who attended the meeting confirmed this to me. 21 Jan, 2004 Madras High Court disposes Ron Watts petition against the order of the T.N.State Govt and SP of Dharmapuri on grounds that he has valid visa till 2008. Gladys Daniel, Jr of Nalini Chidambaram, appears on behalf of Ron Watts and gets away with what the petitioner alleges "as false representation to the Court". 09 Feb, 2004 T.N.Government Bifurcates Dharmapuri District and a new Krishnagiri District is created. Hosur, where the H.Q. of the Seventh Day Adventists is situated (this is where Ron Watts works from) is brought under the new Krishnagiri District. (Is there any connection in the timing of the bifurcation of the district and the problems facing Ron Watts?) 05 July 2004 Nalini Chidambaram appears on behalf of Ron Watts. This is a different CBDT. Christian Board for Dubious Trade! Vellayani Sundararaju made to withdraw petition before Justice Sirpurkar who grants Velayani Sundararaju, the petitioner, with "liberty to approach proper forum in a proper manner". 17 Feb 2005 Ron Watts's makes a hand written deposition before Additional District Magistrate, Pattanamthitta that he would leave the country in 24 Hours. 18 Feb 2005 He shoots fax notices to Govt officials in Kerala that he was made to depose under "Pressure". Matter goes to Kerala High Court. 23 Feb 2005 Ron Watts opens the 1000th Maranatha funded church in India (this one in Iyyanakota, Pamarru, AP). 01 April 2005 HC, Kerala strikes down Ron Watt's petition as withdrawn. End May 2005 Ron Watts meets Sonia Gandhi in Delhi before his departure to USA. The photo of this meeting is featured on the cover of the May-June issue of The New Southern Asian Tidings magazine of the SDA. Meeting facilitated by Mavalikara MLA, Murali and Oomen Chandy, CM of Kerala. Murali and family allegedly get free tickets to USA and a standing ovation at the General Conferance of the Seventh Day Adevntists in the USA. 06 July 2005 Ron Watts gets re-elected as Vice President of the South Asia Division of the SDA in their General Conference in St Louis, USA. 06 July 2005 Justice P.D.Dinakaran of Madras High Court, who was earlier a Junior to P C Chidambaram, orders seizure of the travel documents of Ron and Dorothy Watts and instructs the SP, Krishnagiri to carry out the order. 18 July 2005 Ron is amongst the 60 Adventists on the White House Lawn reception to PM Manmohan Singh. 16 Aug 2005 M.Ashok Kumar, SP of Krishnagiri District files affidavit in Madras HC. Denies all averments of the petitioner and says that Watts and Dorothy have valid Visas till 2008. Tells the court that they are not involved in any conversions in districts of Dharmapuri and Krishnagiri. And they have not received any information or complaints from the Govts of Kerala or AP where the incidents are alleged to have taken place. Also states that the leave the country order was withdrawn (???). (To the best knowledge of the Petitioner it has NOT been revoked by the MHA). How does the SP of Krishnagiri District expect reports from the Government of Kerala and Government of Andhra Pradesh on Ron Watts' activities? Did he ask them, specifically related to this case? R.John, Secretary of the South Asia Division of the Seventh Day Adventists impleads in the case as the 10th respondent. M.Habibullah Basha appears as his counsel for impleadment. 19 Aug 2005 Based on the affidavit filed by the SP, Krishnagiri, the Additional Advocate General of the State of Tamil Nadu appears before the HC and says that both Ron and Dorothy had already left the country hence the order of the leave the country has been worked out. They have obtained new Visas and have come into India and have travelled to and from India on two occasions after the said order was issued by MHA. This is a wonderful example of putting The Cart before the horse. Justice P.D.Dinakaran (interestingly, he was earlier a Junior to P C Chidambaram), vacates his interim order dated 06/07/2005 to seize the travel documents of Ron and Dorothy Watts. However the main deportation case has not been vacated. The petitioner, Velayani Sundararaju plans to appeal to the Bench at Madras High Court shortly on this interim vacation granted by Justice P.D.Dinakaran. Maybe, he should also make a new cause - writ of mandaramus against the Ministry of External Affairs, Ministry of Home Affairs and with Ron and Dorothy as responding parties as to how the Ministry could issue a Visa to persons who have been given the Leave the Country Notice just a few months ago? Since the original notice was given after detailed study based on various complaints, what are the changed circumstances obtained in order to give Visas to such individuals? Questions that remain unanswered: 1 Why did Advani meet with someone on whom his ministry had given the Leave the Country Notice just four months ago? 2. Did the Ministry of External Affairs inform all our Embassies on the details of the Leave the CountryNotice on Ron and Dorothy Watts? 3. How could the Indian Embassy in Washington give them Visas when they had a Leave the Country notice on them? 4. When the original order was issued by the Ministry of Home Affairs on 02 July 2003, the final order was served by the Inspector Matigiri police station only on 30 Oct 2003. Was the delay in the process deliberate to facilitate them to ‘escape’ to USA and procure extension of Visas and re-entry into India to continue with their proselytizing activities? (This convenient leaving the country and returning with a new Visa is now being used in the High Court as Ron and Dorothy Watts having abided by the order and it has been worked out accordingly. The fact is that the Leave the Country Notice was officially served on Ron and Dorothy Watts by the Inspector of Police, Mathigiri only on 30 Oct, 2003 which is AFTER they have returned to India with valid visa extensions upto 2008. So how can it be taken that the leave the country notice has been worked out or complied with? Did the inspector of police, Mathigiri inform his SP of the date of his departure, flight number details as required of him as per the order? There was NO effort from the entire District Administration to carry out the deportation order. This is the fact. And now they shamelessly claim that the order has been worked out, in order to protect a known proselytizer. Where is Bharatam heading for?) 5. Are there more than administrative reasons for the bifurcation of the Dharmapuri District on 09 February, 2004? Hosur conveniently went to the newly formed Krishnagiri District while all the Ron Watts matter was seized with the District officials of Dharmapuri. 6. How could Sonia meet with Ron Watts during End May, 2004? Refer to the questions that I had for her in my article number 6 – Congress-I or Cong-Cross I? Antonia and Advani seem to share one thing in common. Their common fondness for proselytizers like Ron and Dorothy Watts. If Antonia met Ron Watts during end Oct, 2005, Advani takes the cake and the whole of the "Best Bakery in India" for meeting with the same Ron Watts during November, 2003 when it was his very ministry that handed out the Leave the Country Notice on him on 07 July, 2003. Now, just recall what Dr Togadia called Advani on his famous Jinnah Statement? If Advani thinks that we need to have christists on our side to fight the islamists, this is perverse logic. They are together in India when they fight the Hindus. And we Hindus are left to fight our own battles. This is simple fact that one cannot not wish away. Antonia, Advani, Jayalalithaa, Dharam Singh, Samuel Rajasekhar, Oomen Chandy.They are all look to me like dangerous birds of same feather, though operating from different cages. Did not Jaya bring the anti-conversion law only after the Adventists went beserk in Madurai with their conversions? Did she not retract once there was pressure from the Christian cabal aided by the US State Department? Ron Watts is back in Hosur. And these leaders will roll out a red carpet for his continuous conversion activities. And they will surely facilitate more conversions. From 1999-2000 to 2005 he has managed to convert 800,000 people (his own admission of baptisms during his reign as the President of South Asian Division of the Seventh Day Adventists). How many more will he convert, with the entire ruling and the opposition leaders laying out the red carpet for him? Unless the Hindu Organizations plan and seriously agitate against the atrocious Adventists, the white proselytizers like Ron and Dorothy Watts, I foresee nothing but accelerated erosion of our cultural values through conversions in this Dharmabhoomi. A strong signal should be sent to the US Adventist leaders who are sending this couple to India. The Hindu Organizations should go on consistent stirs and street protests in Hosur and in front of all the Adventist churches, schools and other medical institutions, the Spicer Memorial college in Pune etc., A strong signal that the entire Seventh Day movement will no longer be taken lying down by the Hindus, if people like Ron and Dorothy Watts are encouraged by them. This will put these proselytizers in their right place. This is the only option to drive this serious threat to Hinduism out of this Dharmabhoomi. I have one final question, this one to the Hindu Organizations: Will the Hindu organizations wake up to the task? Additional Notes: On Kim Gangte: 1998: 1. Elected from the Outer Manipur constituency on a CPI ticket (what a great comraderie between the commies and the christists). 2. Was absent from the Lok Sabha on the Vote of confidence motion against Vajpayee Government. 3. By “George”, Contested on the Samata Party ticket in the next election. Kim Gangte election news from the Adventists site: Adventists News Network - India First Adventist Woman Elected to Indian Parliament Manipur, India … [ANN] Kim Gangte, an Adventist woman, was elected to the Lok Sabha from Manipur, the first woman member of the lower house from the state. A graduate of Spicer Memorial College, Gangte completed an M.A. degree from Pune University. She has been extremely active in connection with human rights problems in Manipur and has served as a general secretary of the human rights society in Manipur. Gangte also worked as a teacher at the Adventist Training School in Jowai, Meghalaya state. At the time of the elections, she was employed as a lecturer in a college in Manipur. Gangte attends church at New Delhi, and is keenly interested in religious liberty and human rights issues. She is not only the first woman to be elected to parliament from her home state, she is also the first known Seventh-day Adventist to be elected to the Indian parliament. [Adventist News Network-India] XII LOK SABHA DEBATES, Session II, (Monsoon) Wednesday, July 22, 1998 /Asadha 31, 1920 (Saka) Just look at what she says on the floor of the Parliament: Kim Gangte in Lok Sabha: If we are really a part of this great country, India ; if we are really Indians etc., -- sid=221&amp;amp;amp;amp;mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 This one is long afer her meeting LKA with the Adventist delegation: Feb 03, 2005 The Manipur Government should immediately call an all party meet along with different community leaders to discuss lifting of the curfew in the State, former MP and human rights activists Kim Gangte has said: "Deputy Prime Minister LK Advani should visit the State if he is so concerned about insurgency in the North-east," she said adding the Centre should not compare Manipur with either Chatishgarh or Uttaranchal.” Talking to reporters here she said continued curfew would only increase the anger of the people. The Centre should understand that solving the NSCN(IM)’s problems alone could not bring peace to the North-east as there were numerous underground outfits operating in the region, she said. "The territorial integrity issue is sentimental and the Centre should first try to understand the sentiments of the Manipuris,” she added. The Manipur Cabinet had decided to release the arrested cadres of the underground outfit unconditionally to meet the demand of various Naga organizations that objected the arrest. Note: Source: --- Lalit Mansingh visits Seventh Day Adventists World HQ at Silversprings, Maryland, USA on Oct 11, 2001 This is what he said to the Adventists in their HQ: "This is not to say that there are never instances of religious intolerance in India," he added, referring to a 1999 incident where a Baptist missionary and his two sons were killed by militant Hindus in the state of Orissa. "There will always be the lunatic fringe that is intolerant. But the redeeming aspect to this is that these actions [in Orissa] were widely and strongly condemned by mainstream Indian society. And not just by Christians, but by members of many different religions who are continuing India's long tradition of tolerance and respect for all religions."

Posted by: G.Subramaniam Sep 9 2005, 04:41 PM

A reminder - Please put your money where your mouth is As many people on this forum are aware, I am running an extremely cost-effective program in Tamil Nadu against xtian missionaries Low cost, non-violent and low key and very successful Many members of this board have contacted me and agreed to contribute Some of you have indeed contributed to this cause and I am very grateful However the unfortunate fact is that most of the people who contacted me and agreed to fund this program have not actually contributed a penny G.S

Posted by: Mudy Sep 11 2005, 09:15 PM,10987,1098937,00.html

The yoga teacher sits in a lotus position atop a polished wooden platform. Behind her, verdant woods are visible through panoramic windows. Gentle music tinkles from overhead speakers. Two dozen students in spandex outfits, most of them women, settle onto purple and blue mats to begin the class with ujjayi, a breathing exercise. Their instructor, Cindy Senarighi, recommends today's mantra. " 'Yahweh' is a great breath prayer," she says. " The Jesus Prayer also works. Now lift your arms in praise to the Lord." The platform is an altar, the tinkly tune is praise music, and the practice is Christian yoga....