India Forum Archives
Sunday, December 11, 2005
  Energy Sector - 1

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 11 2003, 02:44 PM

"the trade and industry minister of Kyrgyztan proposed the direct transmission of power to India from its abundant hydro-electric resources via China. " The article says that this will be cheaper than laying a gas pipeline.

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 12 2003, 05:33 AM

O Vijay, It is indeed cheaper to build Electrical Transmission Lines than Gas Pipe Lines especially in the Mountainous Terrain. These transmission lines (along with the Towers) can be laid along the Road System from Kyrgyztan all the way to Himachal Pradesh via Xinjiang and the disputed Aksai Chin. Since the Road System is already present the constructions of the Electric Transmission Towers should not pose a problem. There will hardly be any real heavy machinery to transport to the sites. The Natural Gas Pipe Lines will of course cost much more to build including the “Booster Pumping Stations” en route. Cheers

Posted by: rhytha Nov 12 2003, 06:12 AM

can anybody tell me how Kyrgyztan seems to have abndunce of power. which they seems to export. Do they have excess power genrator capacity due to soviets or something?? dry.gif

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 12 2003, 11:25 AM

Peregrine, welcome to the forum! According to this link, the break-even distance between DC vs AC is around 300 miles per 100MW. It has interesting information regarding various projects including the Rihand-Delhi 1500MW@500KV, 800KM transmission line. There is also a proposed undersea project called the Neptune which is about 1200 km long between Nova Scotia to New Jersey. I wonder if this is a better way to transport energy between Iran/Oman to India?

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 12 2003, 11:34 AM

SURVEY: OIL AND GAS TRANSPORTATION SYSTEM IN CHINA Overview of China's Oil and Gas Industry Trends

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 12 2003, 11:39 AM

An Energy Overview of India A comprehensive report with detailed information. This should keep me busy for the next few days. wink.gif

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 12 2003, 11:53 AM

Indian consumer advocate website

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 12 2003, 12:04 PM

Rhytha, regarding your question about Kyrgyzstan, see the following report. It says that "Kyrgyzstan has 3.6 gigawatts (GWe) of generating capacity, about 80% of which is hydroelectric. Kyrgyzstan imports 67 billion cubic feet of natural gas per year, mostly from Uzbekistan. <> Hydroelectric With its rivers and its mountainous terrain, Kyrgyzstan has a very large potential for producing hydroelectric power, estimated at 163 billion kilowatt-hours (kWh) per year if it could all be exploited. However, Kyrgyzstan has only been able to use about 10% of it. Currently, hydropower exports account for 20% of Kyrgyzstan's total exports and hydropower also constitutes about 20% of Kyrgyzstan's total energy consumption. A summary of Kyrgyzstan's larger hydroelectric power plants, all located on the Naryn River, is shown in Table 5. <> Additional hydroelectric power plants besides these are envisioned for the Naryn River. The largest of these would be the Kambaratinsk dam and hydroelectric stations. Kambaratinsk Hydroelectric Station No. 2 would have a capacity of about 360 megawatts (MWe) and would cost at least $210 million to complete. Some of the work on this project, perhaps as much as 30%, is complete, as it was one of the projects started back under the Soviet era, and then suspended when money ran out. The companion project, Kambaratinsk Hydroelectric Station No. 1, would be much larger yet, envisioned at 1,900 MWe with an estimated cost of $1.7 billion. The Kambaratinsk No. 1 project would supposedly solve some existing regional issues on use of water resources on the Naryn River, in terms of electricity and irrigation needs. If and when completed, the Kambaratinsk dam would be sixth largest in the world in terms of impounded volume, and, at over 800 feet high, eighth tallest in the world. Besides these larger hydroelectric generation facilities, there also exists a myriad of smaller hydroelectric power plants, ranging in size from about 9 MWe all the way down to less than half a megawatt. However, very few of these are now in operation. The Kyrgyzstan State Property and Foreign Investment Committee is trying to revitalize the small hydroelectric sector and has already obtained an agreement in principle with Germany for the investment of 25 million deutschmarks for implementation of such a program. The first stage of such a program would likely be the reconstruction of many of the existing and operating small hydropower plants, including a cascade of eight small power plants on the Alamedin River. A proposed second stage would include reconstruction of about 100 small hydropower facilities not currently in operation, while a proposed third stage would cover construction of 27 new small hydropower facilities, which would have a combined annual output of about 280 million kWh."

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 12 2003, 03:50 PM

O Vijay : Many thanks for the welcome. Theoretically if an Undersea High Voltage Electric Transmission line is possible then I suppose one could have Power Generation Plants in Oman and Iran, but, Strategically speaking one would not like to see India depend on only one Area as the source of its Power. The advantage with importing Natural Gas in the gaseous form or in Liquid form as LNG is that one can have a number of sources from Venezuela, Angola, Nigeria etc in the West to PG, Malaysia right down to Australia in the East. So if one source “goes out of order” then one can supplement / balance the requirements from other areas. Here is a write up on the Oman-India Deep Sea Pipe Line envisaged in 1991 or so but not constructed as India’s requirement of Natural Gas did not justify the cost of the Pipe Line. This Pipe Line should at a cost of USD 6 Billion have “spurs” to Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and even Kuwait as well as Iraq. The Government of India is still looking at a Deep Sea Natural Gas Pipe Line form Oman especially for Qatari and Iranian Natural Gas as it would be unthinkable, despite the views of the Indian DDM and similar minded Indian Leaders as well as Opinion Makers, to have an overland Pipe Line through Lotastaan. user posted image Oman to India Pipeline Route Project Project Description: The proposed 1,100 km gas transmission pipeline extending from Oman to India across the Arabian Sea reaches water depths 3,500 m and crosses rugged shelf breaks on both the Indian and Oman side. A US $12 million program consisting of desk study, marine survey, data reduction and route optimisation was performed under the direction of INTEC to identify and evaluate a feasible pipeline route and alignment. In concert with the use of ultra deepwater acoustic technology, a number of specialized geo-technical and geophysical tests were performed. These included embedment tests, deepwater coring by ROV, local dredging tests by ROV and video mapping of the shelf breaks on both sides of the route. The baseline desk study was performed in 1994 and provided data valuable to the planning of the detailed route survey. In April 1994, a reconnaissance survey was performed using swath techniques to provide a side-scan mosaic of a 5 km wide corridor. The Oman landfall proved to be too irregular for the pipeline and an extensive regional survey was required before a landfall could be designated. The route crosses the Murray Ridge/ Owen Fracture zone, but by traversing to the south of the most rugged sections, a suitable alignment was achieved. In 1995, the detailed route survey was completed which provided detailed bathymetry along a 1 km wide corridor. Deepwater coring was conducted in 1994, which resulted in the recovery of 209 cores that were subsequently laboratory tested for engineering parameters. To complete the route validation, span analysis and the risk of geo-technical hazards were quantified along the entire route. Scope of Services: INTEC work scope consisted of preparation of the desk study, survey specifications, survey bid preparation, evaluation of bidders overall survey supervision, management of subcontractors and selection of the route. Because of the overall length, this survey took place over a two-year period and included several mobilizations and demobilizations of personnel, vessels and equipment. INTEC also had full responsibility for logistics coordination and schedule maintenance of this program. Home Page : You can read all about the Expertise of this Company and the Depths at which they work. Additional information : As you are aware Saipem (Part owned by ENI)-Gazprom has built the undersea Blue Water Pipe Line. ENI has one 50 to 55,000 DWT Pipe Laying Vessel. The Intec Organization has TWO. No sir this is not a Hindi Movie synopsis. It is true. Here is the ENI Link : Please check on Saipem 7,000 and Bluestream under the Operation and Strategies Heading -ENI Main Projects – Bluestream - Saipem P. S. : I think the Landfall of the Deep Sea Natural Gas Pipe Line in India will now be in the vicinity of Mumbai rather than Northern Gujarat. Now to a Deep Sea Long Distance Electric Transmission Line (if it is possible) : It should be much cheaper to lay this Transmission Line as the project would require a much smaller “Laying” Vessel” maybe a size of 20,000 DWT. As you are aware there are already Deep Sea “Communication Fibre Optic” Cables from the West Coast of India (I think the land fall is near Mumbai) to Oman and an Electric Transmission Line although heavier than a Fibre Optic Line will be a fraction – in weight terms – of a Natural Gas Deep Sea Pipe Line. As an example the Saipem 7000 semi-submersible crane vessel has the capacity to handle heavy lift operations up to 14,000 tons. Cheers

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 13 2003, 06:54 AM

Peregrine, its a pleasure to read your comments. I agree that its good to have multiple sources of energy and not be dependent on a single source. But in the event of a shutdown of the gas pipeline between Iran/Oman to India, can the gas plants which depend on this supply be able to convert over to using LNG readily? Plus, we would need to marshall additional tankers to cover the shortfall etc. So, IMO there isn't really much of a difference between relying on a gas pipeline vs HVDC line. Shutdown of either will cause great difficulties for India. The UHVDC (undersea high voltage direct current) cable will be 40-100mm diameter x 6-30ton/km (source: ABB) and is the most cost effective mode of energy transportation over 800 km (source: Alstom). We have world class expertise in HVDC transmission in India. For example, Kanpur IIT EE department is heavily into R&D of HVDC. New technology like SOFC (solid-oxide fuel cells) can efficiently convert natural gas into electricity. Also, these SOFC power plants can be stationed off-shore, so that we maybe able provide better security. ABB has some really interesting designs on their boards. For K-G basin gas, it maybe cheaper for Reliance if they go with the offshore power generation instead of laying a pipeline from Kakinada to Goa. But getting right of way for a high voltage power line will take up more land than a buried natural gas pipeline. "Reliance gets AP govt's nod for laying gas pipeline The Government of Andhra Pradesh has granted permission to Reliance Industries Ltd to lay pipelines for transportation and distribution of natural gas between Hyderabad and Goa. The company has asked Gas Transportation and Infrastructure Company Ltd, a wholly owned subsidiary of RIL, to undertake the pipeline work. It will lay a pipeline for transportation of natural gas between Goa and Hyderabad in the first phase and Hyderabad to Kakinada in the second phase. Following the discovery of gas in the K-G basin, the company plans to lay pipelines in other districts of AP as well. The state government accorded general permission to lay pipelines across the irrigation structures and canals in the entire state subject to certain conditions. RIL plans to invest over Rs 4,500 crore in laying 5,895 km of product pipelines across the country as a precursor to begin retailing of petrol and diesel. RIL, which is setting up 5,849 petrol stations across the country, will lay 5,895 km of product pipelines to feed the retail network. A formal proposal to this effect has been submitted to the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Gas. Gas Transportation and Infrastructure Company has proposed to lay the Rs 1,640-crore Jamnagar-Patiala pipeline, the Rs 1,780-crore Jamnagar-Kanpur pipeline, the Rs 460-crore Goa-Hyderabad pipeline, the Rs 325-crore Chennai-Bangalore pipeline and the Rs 260-crore Haldia-Ranchi pipeline. The 1,580-km Jamnagar-Patiala and the 2,540-km Jamnagar-Kanpur pipelines would feed petrol stations in Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, Delhi, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh, directly from the Jamnagar Refinery in Gujarat. RIL proposes to transport petrol and diesel from its refinery in Gujarat to ports in Goa, Chennai, Kakinada and Haldia through ships."

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 13 2003, 07:10 AM

Just in case if anyone was wondering about the GAIL vs Reliance pipelines, this October 11, 2003 Hindu report makes it clear that Central government has given its blessing for the Reliance plans. "(Min. of Petroleum, Ram Naik) said under the policy for the development of petroleum product "pipelines on common user principle", six pipelines by Reliance Industries Limited had been approved. This included the Jamnagar-Patiala pipeline (1,580 km.) at a cost of Rs. 1,640 crores; Jamnagar-Kanpur (2,540 km., cost Rs. 1,780 crores); Goa-Hyderabad (660 km, cost Rs. 460 crores); Chennai-Bangalore (540 km., cost Rs. 325 crores); Kakinada-Vijayawada (200 km., cost Rs. 110 crores) and Haldia-Ranchi (375 km., cost Rs. 260 crores). "

Posted by: O Vijay Nov 13 2003, 07:28 AM

This report has a nice in-depth analysis of pipeline politics. I think there is merit in GAIL's argument for one owner of the gas grid but I also think Reliance has legitimate concerns about the cost and delivery schedule of GAIL built pipelines. Looking at the overall picture, I agree with Shri Naik's decision to let Reliance build their pipeline across the country but letting GAIL be in charge of overall gas grid. user posted image

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 14 2003, 03:27 AM

O Vijay : Let us take the HVDC Line : In this case any shut down cannot be immediately replaced as the “Power Generation” Plants in India will already be operating at full capacity. As such the country will be left “Powerless” to the extent of the quantum of supply by the HVDC Line. If the Power is being Generated at “Gas Fuel” Plants which are dependant on the Natural Gs supplied by a Deep Sea Pipe Line suddenly find that they cannot get this Gas then the import of LNG can be increased. The Natural Gas is Liquefied into LNG at the Port of Loading (or in its vicinity) and then transported in LNG form to the Port of Discharge / Destination in India. It is then discharged in Liquid Form and then goes through the Gasification Process and converted back to Gas so that it can be transported by a Gas Pipe Line to its destination of use. It is true that LNG Tankers – one envisages the use of the 150,000 CBM Size which cost about USD 160 Million each – are not available in the corner shop like ordinary Oil Tankers. The LNG Tankers are built on the basis of 10 to 25 Years Charters i.e. Contracts of usage. However, they can be rescheduled and a substantial amount of LNG can be transported from other sources. Not being an engineer I cannot guarantee it but I think in cases of Emergencies of such Huge Proportions it might be possible to convert the Natural Gas Fired Boilers to be converted to Oil-Fired use. Engineers on this forum on reading this are requested to comment. In case of HVDC Line any stoppage means “Ram Naam Sut Hai”. You cannot arrange a substitution of supply of Electricity from another Source. I cannot comment on the HVDC Line and as such I will accept your contentions of its viability, but, can only remain sceptical in respect to a “possible” stoppage. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Dec 8 2003, 04:57 PM ISLAMABAD, Dec 4: Pakistan will begin facing gas shortfalls to the tune of 839mmcfd (million cubic feet per day) in 2010, which is expected to reach the 6,708 mmcfd mark by 2025. Quoting these estimates from the government documents, officials of a foreign bank advised Pakistan's top energy and financial authorities to go for the liquefied natural gas (LNG) imports and restructure electricity tariffs to attract LNG investors because cross-border gas pipeline imports carried a lot of political and economic risks. This advice was given at a day-long Pakistan Energy Forum organized by ABN-Amro here on Thursday. The forum was presided over by Finance Minister Shaukat Aziz and attended by almost all top officials of the petroleum ministry, Wapda and other energy sector organizations. The bank officials also suggested that two low-cost sources of energy, hydel and nuclear, could also not be offered to the private investors because of their highly-political nature. They said Pakistan's plans for the cross-border gas pipelines (from Qatar, Iran and Turkmenistan) contained extremely big political risks outside Pakistan and were very difficult to be sold to the international investors and financial institutions given their price tag ranging from $2-4 billion. Contrary to that, the LNG prices were on the decline in the international market due to over production and some of their sources (Middle East) were in the close proximity of Pakistan and its shipping and transportation costs would be low. However, they did not mention how long the international LNG market would remain depressed. Pakistan has been trying to replace high cost furnace oil with the increased domestic gas production and imported gas to minimize the foreign exchange loss. It has so far seriously pursued gas imports from Turkmenistan, Iran and Qatar through pipelines. The ABN-Amro officials, however, said there were a lot of opportunities in the gas sector which suggested foreign investors and financial institutions to invest in the Pakistan energy sector. Some of these opportunities included the growing power demand in view of economic growth, deregulation and privatization policies of the government, availability of a lot of domestic oil and gas reserves, investments for system expansion, attractive fiscal incentives, the improved financial profile of the gas utilities and positive outlook of Pakistan's sovereign credit rating. The forum was informed that the government had planned to construct gas storage facilities to ensure availability of gas during winter peak season to the northern part and power sector of the country. Azam Khan, deputy managing director of the Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Limited (SNGPL), said the utility was new in the construction of the gas storages, but was jointly working with other partner to help avoid the inconvenience faced by the people during winter season. He said domestic consumers faced gas loadsheddings particularly in the northern part of the country, including Islamabad, Peshawar, Abbottabad and some other parts of the NWFP and Punjab. The SNGPL is working with the OGDCL for the supply of gas to the storage from their fields and the process would be completed in four-year time. He said the company would also invite expert companies in the field of storage to help the SNPL in this plan. The main reason for the shortage is the seasonal swing in the demand of gas during the winters. The demand of gas for domestic and commercial consumption increases from 26 per cent in summer to 68 per cent in winter. The current year demand for gas in the Northern Areas during the peak season is expected to be 398 mmcfd which would increase to 1,027mmcfd by year 2024-25, he said. However, after the development of SADKAL gas field as underground gas storage facility and commissioning of Gurguri gas field at Kohat, the gas demand would be under control. The SNGPL can supply 910mmcfd of gas from SADKAL and Gurguri to the Northern parts of the country. The gas storage would also be helpful to meet seasonal demand for power generation due to reduced output of hydropower plants in winter. He said the increase in gas sales to power sector during the last year had replaced the import of oil worth $125 million. The SNGPL, he said, was undertaking a new project for the utilisation of 300mmcf additional gas to replace the 2.56 million tons of liquid fuel in power sector which would save another $410 million per year in fuel import. The Lotastaanis have been begging the Indians to Route the Pipe Lines via Lotastaan instead of by the Deep Sea Pipe Line. Since the Lotastaani Advisors feel that cross-border gas pipeline imports carried a lot of political and economic risks and also said Lotastaan's plans for the cross-border gas pipelines (from Qatar, Iran and Turkmenistan) contained extremely big political risks outside Lotastaan so it stands to reason that India in getting the Natural Gas Pipe Line via Lotastaan will have the added Risk which is Resident in Lotastaan by way of Terrorists, Jihadis etc. Here is another Article of a Natural Gas Pipe Line having being blown up : SUKKUR: The supply of natural gas to some parts of Sindh and Balochistan provinces was suspended, as a gas pipeline caught fire after a big bang near Kot Fazal Muhammad Hajano, five kilometres off the border town of Tangwani in Jacobabad district, on the night between Sunday and Monday. The blast created a panic among the villagers of the adjoining locality. The Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) officials, on receiving information of the explosion, rushed to the site and suspended the gas supply. They also started a rescue and repair operation on emergency basis. Later reports said that the fire was controlled after hectic efforts of about six hours. Police sources ruled out any subversion in the explosion and according to them it took place due to the high pressure in the pipeline. An enquiry into the incident was being held and according to the SSGC officials it would take into account all possible factors behind the blast. Our Jacobabad correspondent adds: The Tangwani police registered a case against unidentified culprits for blasting the gas pipeline, supplying the Sui gas to Sindh, Punjab and NWFP provinces. The blast resulted in an 18-hour suspension of the gas supply to upcountry. Meanwhile, Jacobabad DPO Din Muhammad Baloch has rejected the terrorism factor and said that the blast occurred due to heavy pressure of the gas. However, SSGC Manager (Operation) Qazi Anwar has lodged with FIR against unknown persons for blasting the pipeline and inflicting heavy loss on the company. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Dec 9 2003, 01:25 AM TEHRAN, Dec 5, Iran Daily -- The National Iranian Tanker Company is ready to transfer liquefied natural gas (LNG) from giant South Pars Gas Field to India, a senior official at the company has said. "Production of LNG is envisaged under phases 11 to 14 of South Pars development project. The gas field will produce 20 million tons per year of LNG by 2008," NITC Managing Director Mohammad Souri said at a news conference in India. dia needs seven million tons of LNG per annum and so we need three vessels to ship this product to Indian Dobhol Port,"added, reported. "Energy-rich Iran will become an exceptional country in the region. Iran exports oil and gas to India and other countries to balance its economic exchanges," the official noted. Souri said Iran's shipment of LNG to India would not dispense with the need for laying on trans-Pakistan Iran- India gas pipeline. "Taking into account India's desperate need for LNG both options are required. "The NITC is ready to cooperate at the international level with shipping companies or oil and gas investment companies," he said. Iran has offered to bear 60 percent of the cost of a proposed $3 billion onshore natural gas pipeline from Iran to India passing through Pakistan in a bid to get India's involvement in the project. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Dec 9 2003, 01:30 AM ISLAMABAD, Dec 8: The tri-nation ministerial steering committee on $2.6 billion Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan (TAP) gas pipeline project on Monday rejected a feasibility study conducted by the project consultants and called for "redoing" the whole exercise, Dawn has learnt. The meeting concluded on a mixed note on first day of the deliberations and would remain in session on Tuesday. Pakistan's Minister for Petroleum and Natural Resources Nouraiz Shakoor Khan, Turkmenistan Deputy Prime Minister Yolly Gurbanmuradov, Afghanistan Mines and Industry Minister Dr Mehfooz Nedai and ADB representative Najeeb Jung led their respective delegations. A participant of the meeting told Dawn that Turkmenistan sought time till June 2004 to complete certification of Daulatabad gas field reserves because the certification exercise was currently in progress. The Turkmen delegation assured the meeting that gas reserves were higher than original estimates because some new discoveries had also been made in the vicinity of Daulatabad gas field in the recent past. He said Petroleum Minister Nouraiz Shakoor expressed displeasure over the findings of the feasibility study of the project consultant, Penspen Consulting of the UK, and his objections were supported by Turkmenistan and the ADB as well. The consultant was required to present two different scenarios of the TAP project - gas pipeline prospects with and without the involvement of India. The consultant completed its study on the prospects of the pipeline project up to India and did not do much on the feasibility in case India declined to come on board. This was clear violation of the minutes of the previous meetings and TORs of the consultant. The previous steering committee meeting had clearly mentioned that the consultant would carry out the feasibility study through frequent consultations with authorities in Pakistan. The consultant visited Pakistan only once and held a 30-minute meeting with a joint secretary of the petroleum ministry, the meeting was informed. The consultant's feasibility covered project costs from Turkmenistan to India via Lahore, while Pakistan required gas in Multan and in case India is not ready to be part of the project then this cost estimates would also become irrelevant, sources said. "(The) ADB was also supportive on this issue and agreed that basis of the feasibility study was not as per the TOR and required to be redone," a participant of the meeting told Dawn. These observations would be made part of the protocol to be signed at the conclusion of the two-day meeting and then made public at a press conference on Tuesday, he said. The project cost would be $2.6 billion without India and $3.2 billion if the pipeline goes to New Delhi as well, the sources said. When contacted petroleum secretary M. Abdullah Yousaf said Turkmenistan was currently in the process of certification of the reserves and would submit a report later. He said Pakistan's requirement for imported gas had slightly declined beyond 2010 because of some additional gas finds in the country. He said the country would need around 2.5 bcfd of gas by 2012 and shortage would keep on increasing till 2025. He said the feasibility study of the consultant had revealed that Afghanistan would require a very limited volume of gas after 2010. The sources said the Afghan representative also submitted its gas requirements amounting to 40-50 mmcfd (million cubic feet per day) in 2010. Afghanistan assured the meeting of providing security to the pipeline in its territory but could not justify how it would guarantee the security given a very volatile law and order situation in the country. Meanwhile, an official statement said the meeting reviewed the updated progress on TAP and expressed satisfaction on the pace of efforts being made by the member states and the ADB for the early implementation of the project. The meeting discussed the issue of gas reserves certification for Daulatabad gas field of Turkmenistan, demand for natural gas in Pakistan, anticipated utilization of natural gas in Afghanistan and other possible sources for utilizing TAP gas. The meeting also considered the draft feasibility study report presented by Penspen, the statement said. Petroleum Minister Nouraiz Shakoor said the 7th meeting of the steering committee on TAP gas pipeline project "is taking place at crucial and decisive juncture". He reiterated Pakistan's full support for the ADB's coordinated efforts on TAP and assured the participating countries of all out cooperation to come up with their expectations with regard to progress of the multi-beneficial regional pipeline project. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Dec 12 2003, 12:34 PM

Cross Posted on the "Lotastaan, the Terrorist State" Thread. DELHI: A long-delayed plan to build a US$3 billion Iran-India gas pipeline through Pakistan could gain some momentum this week as Indian and Iranian officials gear up for talks, days after Pakistan guaranteed the project's security. Yashwant Sinha, India's foreign minister, was flying late Friday for Teheran to discuss the pipeline and other economic ties with Iranian officials. He will also meet Iran's President Mohammad Khatami and Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi, foreign ministry spokesman Navtej Sarna told reporters. Eager to find new markets, Iran has been pursuing the pipeline project with India and Pakistan since 1996. Iranian officials say the 2,600-kilometer (1,600-mile) pipeline would save India around US$300 million a year in energy costs, and experts say it would help India overcome its energy deficit. Pakistan also would have access to the gas, and earn about US$600 million a year in transit fees. But persistent tensions between India and Pakistan, who are in a decades-old dispute over the Himalayan region of Kashmir, have stymied plans. India doesn't want to depend on Pakistan for energy, fearing its archrival could sabotage the pipeline or control it for political leverage. However, Pakistan's ambassador to India, Aziz Ahmed Khan, said Tuesday that Islamabad was ready to guarantee the pipeline's security. "Frankly, India has nothing to worry (about) because we guarantee security to the project under international conventions,'' Khan had said in the eastern city of Calcutta. Sarna declined to comment on the ambassador's remarks, saying India and Iran were studying the feasibility of the project. Iran has offered to pay for up to 60 percent of the proposed pipeline, while India and Pakistan would split the rest of the cost. Renewed talk of the pipeline coincides with recent steps toward peace between India and Pakistan, nuclear-armed neighbors which were on the brink of war last year. Lotastaan’s Security Guarantee isn’t worth the paper it is written on. India has regretted every Agreement it has made with Lotastaan. I hope that the Indian Government is not as foolish as the Lotastaanis consider it to be. Cheers

Posted by: Gill Dec 16 2003, 09:33 PM

1] There is a mention of building power connection to Krgystan and will come through Himachal. There was a study done in US, that those residents living near electric towers were more likely to develop cancer. Are there any environmental or medical reprecussions? 2] Can Natural Gas be imported using tankers? 3] Can we utilize solar energy to meet Indian demands? Or is not cost effective or impractical? Very informative thread. Please continue. graduated.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Dec 17 2003, 05:21 PM

Gill : 1. Don’t know. However what are you going to do about all the Electric Transmission Lines / Towers in India and Rest of the World? 2. Natural Gas is a very light commodity and cannot be transported by Tankers (I presume you refer to Marine Transportation) However Natural Gas is cooled down (-260 Degrees F) to liquid form whereby 625-640 Cubic Metres of Natural Gas gives One Cubic Metre of LNG. LNG is Transported in LNG Carriers and the latest LNG Carriers envisaged by the Iranian N. I. T. C. are of the 150,000 Cubic Metres Size. The full transportation mode is Natural Gas converted to LNG at the Exporting Port, then Marine Transport by LNG Carriers, then “Gasified” at the Importing Port. 3. I have no Idea and hope people in the know will contribute. Cheers

Posted by: SSridhar Jan 9 2004, 09:23 AM

I would like some opinion on the wisdom of Iran India Gas Pipeline through Pakistan. Can the resident experts gie their opinions. I think it is a disaster waiting to happen. No one in their right minds will put a vital resource such as energy in the hands of our awoved enemy.
SSRamachndran, I saw your above post in the TSP thread. Not being an expert in anything, I can only offer my 2 cents worth. I think we all agree that TSP has implacable enmity with India. Its fanatic obsession is to dismember and destroy India and it is not bothered by the costs it has to suffer, including even if it leads to its own obliteration. It has tried several techniques to achieve that, including covert and overt wars, propaganda, subterfuge, fraud and everything else. Even during the Afghan war, Pakistan's leaders and Generals never lost sight of this sole reason for their existence and created mayhem in the Punjab. It started the other facet of destabilization, this time economic, with the 1993 Mumbai serial bombing. It has continued that tactic without letup in the form of fake currency, instigating boycott of Indian goods and services (Nepal, for example; Basmati rice episode in the Middle East etc..), fake court-stamp paper etc...The nuclear blackmail also falls under this category as it happened last time when the Western countries issued travel advisory against travelling to India. TSP now undesrstands that with the rapid military and economic progress of India, the only way it can achieve its sole ambition, that of destroying India, is through economic destabilization. It knows for certain that its conventional and nuclear power are no longer a threat to India. The only way it can achieve its goal is through matters economic. That's what is propelling its new found ardour for "peace" with India. This is a facade and we need to understand that and not get carried away. If one looks at Vision-2025 document, India's natural gas requirements by that time will be ~ 315 MMSCMD, of which the Iran-India pipeline will carry roughly a quarter . Add to that the TAP pipeline (whether Turkmenistan will be able to spare us enough energy is a moot point at present. But, if the recent mending of fences between Turkmenistan and Russia does not hold, the former will have to seek aggressively outlets for its huge oil and gas reserves), roughly one-third or more of India's hydrocarbons will be passing through TSP, a prospect not appealing because such energy lines will then become our "jugular vein" in TSP hands. The TAP pipeline is stuck today for two reasons, one Russia seems to have mopped-up all the oil&gas there leaving precious little for others unless more wells are drilled up and secondly, India has shown no inclination to this pipeline and that has put a question mark on its economic viability. But, the situation may change if India starts showing some interest. With the efforts under way now to build SPR (Strategic Petroleum Reserve) of 45 days, we may be able to cruise though short periods of physical disruption, but the economic shock that any such disruption will create is tremendous. Such economic disruption will have far-reaching implications, not just limited to economics. The question to ask is: Is India's energy security enhanced by the lines passing thro' TSP ? The answer is a resounding NO. India has gone to great lengths to improve its energy security, especially with the high-growth rate envisaged for the next decade, by investing in oil and gas equities in places such as Sakhalin, Sudan, Myanmar, Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Vietnam etc and including setting up an airbase in Ayni, Tajikistan. All that will be nullified by this one action of letting our energy lines pass through TSP. The CBMs that the two countries are engaging in now is all right but the landlines cannot be part of CBMs. They have to be the end-result of the CBMs, possibly after two generations of TSPians have been taught real history in their textbooks, after the madrassahs have been reformed, after the terrorist infrastructures have been dismantled and eliminated, after decent democratic institutions have started functioning, after the jihadi army has been defanged and more importantly after India is convinced of the irreversibility of all these. While we are waiting for all this to happen, we have to plan for hydrocarbon imports through LNG tankers and deep-sea pipelines. The Oman-India pipeline is formidable but not in-achievable with present-day pipelaying, maintenance and monitoring technologies. In fact, very soon, we have to lay pipes at those depths (3000-3500 m) to evacuate gas from KG-DWN-98 field to onshore facilities (though they will not be of such longish distance) or when we start exploring the potentially rich Andaman Sea reserves. Let's put the talk of TSP pipelines on the backburner for now.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 9 2004, 11:47 AM

QUOTE (SSridhar @ Jan 9 2004, 09:53 PM)
With the efforts under way now to build SPR (Strategic Petroleum Reserve) of 45 days, we may be able to cruise though short periods of physical disruption, but the economic shock that any such disruption will create is tremendous.
SSridhar : The Strategic Petroleum Reserve will consist of Liquid Products and not Gas. Storing LNG in Tanks Ashore would be a costly preposition. The other problem one would envisage is that the Boilers using Natural Gas as Fuel cannot be changed to Oil immediately. In addition there is the problem of Atmospheric Pollution due to Emissions from Oil Fired Boilers. These days the Plants with Oil Fired Boilers have “Scrubbing Towers” to remove Sulphur and other Pollutants. As such do you think that it is feasible to convert from Natural Gas to Furnace Oil (Popularly known as Bunker C – I think the viscosity is 6000 seconds) in a short period of time? Again the Plant would also have to be fitted with heaters to heat the Bunker C down to "Burnable Viscosity" Cheers

Posted by: rhytha Jan 9 2004, 12:13 PM

Its fanatic obsession is to dismember and destroy India and it is not bothered by the costs it has to suffer, including even if it leads to its own obliteration.
We have all heard of sucide bombers, but TSP is the only sucide nation in the universe tongue.gif

Posted by: SSridhar Jan 9 2004, 10:15 PM

Peregrine, there is another proposal for 45 days' worth of LPG as well with a capacity of 530,000 tonnes at a cost of USD 600 Million. This has not received as much attention as the SPR. Today, the country imports 1.5 MT of LPG from West Asia and this is likely to double by 2006. As LPG becomes more popular in rural areas, LPG imports will rise dramatically in the coming decade. No Govt can afford disruption of LPG as it will be a political suicide, especially after the LPG density increases. Same is the case with natural gas. As GoI encourages use of natural gas in industries, the critical dependence on gas will be enormous. Of course, the growth will be accelerated if we can keep the price to $3 per MBTU. IMO, as the consumption of natural gas grows in the coming decade, we may need to go in for strategic reserve of gas as well, as they do in the States using suitable geological formations. Be that as it may, the major users of gas in the Indian scene today are Fertilizer & Power industries at ~40% each. Among the fertilizer industry, it is the production of urea, a nitrogenous fertilizer, that is the major consumption of gas both as a feedstock and an energy source. Urea needs Ammonia (NH3) as a basic raw material and Ammonia in turn needs hydrocarbon as a feedstock. In India, natural gas, naphtha and fuel oil are used as feedstocks. Production of Urea from Ammonia also needs large amounts of energy. With GoI implementing a more rational subsidy programme for fertilizer units, inefficient units will no longer get them. So, more units are converting to natural gas and it will be impossible to revert to Naphtha or Fuel oil later on.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 10 2004, 05:24 AM

QUOTE (SSridhar @ Jan 10 2004, 10:45 AM)
There is another proposal for 45 days' worth of LPG as well with a capacity of 530,000 tonnes at a cost of USD 600 Million. This has not received as much attention as the SPR.
SSridhar : If a Strategic Reserve of LPG is created for 45 Days then it would on the face of it seem fine i.e. Minor Disruptions of the Pipe Line through Lotastaan can be “tided over” without too much disruptions. However if this is over a period of time i.e. the Lotastaanis blow up a “considerable length of Pipe Line” then of course the disruption will last longer and with the inability to get hold of an LNG Carrier from the Corner Shop and possibly even the purchase of Large Quantities of LNG on the “Spot Market” being an extremely difficult (if not insurmountable) exercise I do foresee even “the thought of a disruption” causing serious worries in agreeing to the Natural Gas Pipe Line through Lotastaan. In addition the LNG Receiving Terminals will be working to full capacity and I wonder of these can be increased to Import “Extra” LNG to replace the loss of Natural Gas though the Pipe Line via Lotastaan.
So, more units are converting to natural gas and it will be impossible to revert to Naphtha or Fuel oil later on.
This is the main reason why I fear a Natural Gs Pipe Line through Lotastaan. As such I find Dr. Bhasker Dasgupta’s following Article very informative / instructive :,004300140003.htm The crux of the matter is the following – in addition to all the other worries : I will tell you why we will moan. Five per cent of our GDP will be affected, confidence rocked, long term contracts cancelled, small scale industries going bankrupt by the hundreds, working capital requirements shooting up with liquidity crunches, households in a total uproar because they don't have gas to cook and the infrastructure to provide gas cylinders has been wound up, markets diving south, financing costs shooting up drastically, risk premiums dramatically increasing, increased unemployment, etc. There is no amount of insurance which can ever satisfy the total potential damage that this interruption can cause. If we assume that the GDP will be $1 trillion in 2010, then the direct cost and indirect costs will be in the tens of billions of dollars if not more. Yes, the economy will be big, but the damage will be huge as well, can we take that kind of shock and pain? It is a fact of life that despite any number of Agreements signed by the Lotastaani the same will be dishonoured by the next regime and in all probabilities even the regime that has signed it. God save India from it’s DDM and Bureaucrats, Leaders and Industrialist / Money Bags who have Brains in their Pockets rather than in their Heads. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Jan 12 2004, 10:34 PM,0002.htm Corporate giant Essar on Monday said it plans to invest an additional Rs 10,000 crore in the next financial year in Gujarat in a bid to make it the "Petrol Capital" of India. "We have already invested Rs 16,000 crore in Gujarat and have planned to invest further Rs 10,000 crore through completing our existing refinery at Vadinar (near Jamnagar in western Gujarat), addition of new capacities in our steel complex," Essar Group chairman Shashi Ruia said. "We are also setting up new power generation capacities at Vadinar and Hazira, expansion of refinery and gas extraction through coal bed methane fields at Mehsana and others," Ruia said while speaking after the launch of International Kite Flying Festival, wherein his company has chipped in Rs 7 crore as the sole sponsor. Obviously referring to post-Godhra communal riots that tarnished Gujarat's image, Ruia said: "Gujarat is back on development mode after successfully overcoming the societal trauma defying the doomsday projections for it just a couple of years ago." thumbup.gif Ruia added that as a part of 2000 petrol retail stations planned by Essar all over India, it plans to set up over 300 in Gujarat, which will create 300 entrepreneurs and provide jobs to 3,000 people. He said Essar has played a significant role in bringing waters of Narmada to Gujarat by constructing parts of Narmada canal and network of pipelines which has led to permanent solution of water problem. thumbup.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 13 2004, 03:13 PM

Here we have disturbing news again : Seems here is better news : Very reassuring if Pakistan stops the flow of Natural Gas from Turkmenistan or Iran then India can stop supplying Diesel Oil to Lotastaan. With such tactics India will lose twice : - India will have lost the supply of Natural Gas and will take quite some time to arrange replacement with LNG imported in LNG Carriers which are not available in Corner Shops. - India will again be left holding Millions of Tons of Diesel Oil whereas Oil Tankers for the Transportation of Diesel Oil are quite easily available in the International Market to transport Diesel Oil to Lotastaan. The Indian DDM, Bureaucrats and Business Leaders jumping in joy at the above two Articles will rue the day they agreed to have a Pipe Line through Lotastaan when Lotastaanis disrupt the Natural Gas Pipe Line. furious.gif Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Jan 13 2004, 04:03 PM

i hope election get over soon, so that India can be back to business. How can DDM and Babu can think Lotaastan will every change. It can only happen after some DNA mutation.

Posted by: Viren Jan 13 2004, 05:09 PM

QUOTE (Peregrine @ Jan 13 2004, 06:13 PM)
Very reassuring if Pakistan stops the flow of Natural Gas from Turkmenistan or Iran then India can stop supplying Diesel Oil to Lotastaan.
Saudis can easily fill in the gap if we stop diesel supply. So what leverage does India have ? ohmy.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 13 2004, 05:33 PM

QUOTE (Viren @ Jan 14 2004, 05:39 AM)
Saudis can easily fill in the gap if we stop diesel supply. So what leverage does India have ? ohmy.gif
Viren : As I have said India will be left holding Millions of Tons of Diesel Oil. Cheers

Posted by: SSRamachandran Jan 15 2004, 09:35 AM

First of all I am astounded and dazzled by the amount of knowledge that the posters have. Especially Peregrine and special thanks to SSridhar for takng the time and effort to answer my question. There seems to be two schools of thought about the Pakistanis. The first one being that some where in the distant future TSP might become just plain SP and the Gas pipe line will help them do that. The second school of thought is that there is no redemption for TSP and it is going to "hell in a hand basket". I wish with all my heart that the first one is true but reality suggests that the second one is true. My question is , even if it is in India's interests to have a friendly TSP on it's borders ( After I typed that sentence , I realized that I am in la-la land), do we have to actively engage in reforming it ? Is it our job to do so? I think India should not care about pakistan's welfare and let nature take it's own course. At the same time , we should not let our improvement be held hostage by Scummistan. This would mean that we have to incur additional investments up front ( like the deep sea line as against the land line ) rather than handing over our b@!!s to the enemy in exchange for lower up fron investments. If 50 years from now pakistan is a reformed state ( no I am not on drugs ) , then we will embrace it ( No, seriously , I am NOT on drugs laugh.gif ). If not , too bad , so sad. I dont understand this arguement about this pipleline nudging pakistan towards the right path. Economy is not going to turn pakistan around. Case in point Saudi Arabia. It is some thing deeper. It is the culture of free thought and societial forces like teachers , art , litrature , diversity , tolerance and re!igi0n ( it is almost a bad word in forums ) etc that can improve a country. Having said that , I have to wonder about the amount of mention this harebrained idea is getting in the past few weeks. One has to be insane to invest billions of dollars in this clap-trap. Is this psyops on the pakis? Or are these people serious? Feel free to answer it under any other topic if you deem appropriate . And once again , Perigrine , hats off to you .

Posted by: Mudy Jan 15 2004, 11:27 AM

Peregrine , Don't forget India can stop water.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 15 2004, 12:45 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Jan 15 2004, 11:57 PM)
Peregrine , Don't forget India can stop water.
Mudy : Not being a legal eagle I would bow down to your advice but do you think that India will break the Indus River Waters Treaty especially since it is sponsored / brokered by the World Bank? The best thing is to go in for the Deep Sea Pipe Line from Oman. The Project Report was feasible in 1992 or so and since then Technology has improved. The Blue Stream Pipe Line laid by Gaszprom-ENI-Snamprogetti Group in over 2,000 metres of Water has started functioning :〈=en If you have problems getting connected try the It is imperative that India never uses a Pipe Line through Lotastaan. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Jan 15 2004, 12:59 PM

Pipeline is a dream for pakis. No sane person should trust them. Pipe line under sea is a best option. But I think Russia is a problem here. For them, it is better if we use pipe over land through Pakistan and plus Bankers to this project is interested over land option. Yes, ofcourse USA will love to have over land option as it will provide continues currency to their favorite lap dogs Pak Army and Elite and this leash will make them behave. But for India it is a sucide. Well, India can stop water any time, every thing is fair in war. When countries can drop nuclear bomb, atleast this option will give Pkai leaders to think. No oil pipeline through Paki Land period.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 15 2004, 01:37 PM


Posted by: Peregrine Jan 16 2004, 05:14 AM clap.gif PTI[ THURSDAY, JANUARY 15, 2004 09:06:00 PM ] NEW DELHI : ONGC Videsh Ltd, India 's flagship overseas investment company, has discovered a world-class gigantic gas field in an offshore block in Myanmar . The discovery, in A-1 blocks in offshore Myanmar , is estimated to hold 4 to 6 trillion cubic feet of gas, equivalent to India 's 40 per cent gas production. "The exploratory well, spudded in November last year to test the Shwe Prospect -- 'Shwe' means "Gold' in Myanmarese -- penetrated thick gas sand and produced gas at a rate of 32 million cubic feet per day by drill stem test," a company release said. The block, where OVL has 20 per cent stake, is estimated to hold in-place gas reserves of 14 to 21 tcf. "Considering high productivity of the gas reservoir, daily production capacity of the field can be reached much more than 500 million cubic feet (equivalent to 90,000 barrels of oil) per day," it said. As there are several seismic anomalies in block A-1 similar to anomaly appearing at the Shwe discovery, considerable additional exploration potential is also expected in the block. Daewoo International Corp of Korea is the operator of the block with 60 per cent stake, while Korea Gas Corp and Gail ( India ) Ltd hold 10 per cent stake each. OVL, the overseas arm of state exploration firm Oil and Natural Gas Corp (ONGC), has been investing in oil and gas fields abroad to supplement falling domestic production. Cheers india.gif NO NATURAL GAS PIPE LINE THROUGH THE ARMY CANTONMENT MASQUERADING AS A COUNTRY

Posted by: rhytha Jan 16 2004, 05:19 AM

Good news indeed, Hope OVL buy out the other partners shares as well and starts digging stuff. I thnk a pipelind from myamnmar to india is going to be piece of cake clapping smile.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 16 2004, 05:44 AM

QUOTE (rhytha @ Jan 16 2004, 05:49 PM)
Good news indeed, Hope OVL buy out the other partners shares as well and starts digging stuff. I thnk a pipelind from myamnmar to india is going to be piece of cake clap.gif smile.gif
rhytha : At present the stake holders are S. Korean 70%, Indian 30% There is no need to buy out the other partners. With 30% out put being piped to India what will the S. Koreans do with the rest? Build a Liquefaction Plant and export to China, Japan and S. Korea? To do so will cost them another USD Two Billion in investment. Thus their only market is – your and mine – India that is Bharat. This is why the Bhookhanangadeshis are stuck. The government is not willing to upset the Islamic Fundamentalists by exporting Natural Gas to India. UNOCAL are not willing to put in another USD 2 Billion to build a Liquefaction Plant, an LNG Export Terminal and a Deep Water Port. Indians are un-necessarily upset with the Bhookhanagadeshis. We should wait at Bhookhanangadesh’s convenience. At the end of the day they will have to sell to India as there is no other viable place of destination. They can always sell it to Lotastaan and build a Pipe Line through India – That will be the day. Yes Sir!!! A Marine Pipe Line from the Myanmar Off Shore Fields to India will be a piece of cake. clap.gif Cheers NO NATURAL GAS PIPE LINE THROUGH THE ARMY CANTONMENT MASQUERADING AS A COUNTRY

Posted by: O Vijay Jan 16 2004, 07:13 AM

Wow, good news for Myanmar and India. Peregrine, assuming that the Bangladeshis are not going to see reason anytime soon, India can either import the gas either through an overland pipeline through Myanmar/NE India or an undersea route. Which way would be more economical? I would think an overland route through MY/NEI would be better both in terms of development of NE and the strategic region between NE India and rest of country. What do you think? Are there any existing pipelines which can be extended to handle increased flow in NorthEast India?

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 16 2004, 09:11 AM

O Vijay : The Natural Gas Fields are located Off Shore in Myanmar's Rakhine (Old name : Arakan) state. At the moment the Indian Government is unable to pipe the Natural Gas available in the N. E. States of the country as it is uneconomical to be “piped” via Indian territory i.e. without going into Bhookhanangadesh which has not agreed to allow a Pipe Line from India’s N. E. States to be constructed via its territory. As such it would be far better to construct a Marine Pipe Line as the same will mainly traverse a depth of 200 Metres. It will be out of Bhookhanangadesh’s Territorial Waters but within its Maritime Economic Zone. This will not be a problem as there can be no strictures by a country for Marine Traffic or Pipe Lines passing through its EEZ as long as it does not hinder its Interests. In addition a Land Pipe Line will be longer than the Marine Pipe Line. From your link Article I find the following quote attributed to Gail Chairman Proshanto Banerjee most encouraging : India's Financial Express quoted Gail chairman Proshanto Banerjee as saying "We are happy with the reported discovery and are looking forward to more such finds from the neighboring structures in the same block.'' Cheers

Posted by: SSRamachandran Jan 16 2004, 09:22 AM

cheers.gif india.gif thumbup.gif Right time for this news to break .......... !!! If there is an under sea pipe line , where will the land fall be in India . ( which state , city ) ?

Posted by: rhytha Jan 16 2004, 09:28 AM

should be visak unsure.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 16 2004, 09:48 AM

QUOTE (rhytha @ Jan 16 2004, 09:58 PM)
should be visak unsure.gif
rhytha : With the Gas from Off Shore Godavari Block meeting the South East Coast’s requirements I think that the Myanmar Natural Gas will go to the Industrial Belt of West Bengal, Bihar (or is it now Jharkhand?) and Orissa. In addition for the south we will also have the Natural Gas from the Off Shore Fields off the North East Coast of Sri Lanka Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 17 2004, 10:33 AM QUETTA: A 107 mm rocket hit Quetta Cantt, while another rocket hit close to the Sui gas field on Friday.casualties or damage to property was reported. rocket hit Quetta Cantt at about 8.15pm.duty police constable Faiz Muhammad said the explosion caused a large crater in the ground, but property or life was not damaged. The military has closed all roads leading towards the blast site so as to avoid any casualties in case of another rocket attack. In the second incident, a rocket landed close to the Sui gas field, but caused no damage. If the Lotastaani Army cannot prevent Rocket Attacks in their Cantonment Areas nor in the Nations' Premier Gas Fields then how will they protect a Natural Gas Pipe Line or for that matter the Members of the Indian Cricket Team? Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 17 2004, 12:19 PM

O Vijay & SSRamachandran I stand corrected. The big bosses prefer the land route though the Sub-Sea Pipe Line is not ruled out. GAIL India Ltd is planning to invest around Rs 4,000 crore to transport gas struck by an Indo-Korean consortium in offshore North West Myanmar to India over land. Talking to Business Standard , GAIL India chairman Proshanto Banerjee said: “I expect commercial production to start in 2006-07. In the next 5-6 months, we will have to assess the availability of gas, the transport options and the route to take.” The company also has the option to transport the gas through a sub-sea pipeline. But this works out more expensive than an on-land route, Banerjee said. “At the moment, an on-land route is the preferred option,” Banerjee said. Though the final route is yet to be decided, the pipeline is likely to travel from *north Myanmar* to Mizoram and then to West Bengal. What could also affect the final decision is that there are two more structures in the same block, which look promising. “In six months, we will get to know their potential. Being in the same block, we hope these reserves will also be good,” Banerjee said. The Indo-Korean consortium comprises ONGC Videsh Ltd, GAIL India, Daewoo International and Korean Gas Corporation. Initial estimates suggest the gas reserves to be around 6 trillion cubic feet (tcf). While 65 per cent of the production will go to Myanmar Oil & gas Enterprise, the remaining 35 per cent will be taken up by the consortium. GAIL India has got into a marketing agreement with OVL and Daewoo to pick up their share of the gas. “Out of the possible gas reserves of 6 tcf, we are looking at around 2 tcf,” Banerjee said. GAIL India is also in discussion with Myanmar Oil & Gas Enterprise to lift the surplus gas after Myanmar’s requirements have been met. “We have participated in NELP blocks in the past, nut this is the first source of GAIL’s own gas. To that extent, we are very happy,” Banerjee added. Comments : It is proclaimed that the Natural Gas Pipe Line “will travel from North Myanmar….”. How the Gas reaches North Myanmar is anybody’s guess. The Gas is from an off shore field off the coast of Rakhine (Arakan) State and if we follow the route to Kolkata via Mizoram and Meghalaya then the land distnce is about 800 Miles. The Marine Pipe Line to Kolkatta will be about 400 Miles. Distances are based form Sittwe (Old Akyab) May be Bandhopadhya Moshai needs to look at a Map of the Area. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Jan 17 2004, 12:42 PM

Even, new roque state in block refuse land access, it is still feasible through Mizoram, only concern I have, deep forest, mountain, ISI and other roque element in that area will try to sabotage. Route to Kolkata via Mizoram and Meghalaya then the land distnce is about 800 Miles. The Marine Pipe Line to Kolkatta will be about 400 Miles. For continues supply Marine pipe line is still better option, but it is expensive.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 19 2004, 01:43 PM LONDON (Reuters) - Shares in oil and gas explorer Cairn Energy have leapt by 40 percent after it announced a significant oil discovery in Rajasthan in western India which it said could transform its prospects. Shares in the firm, with roots in the North Sea but increasingly focused on India and Bangladesh, were 40 percent up at 518 pence by 8:56 a.m. on Monday, valuing it at around 780 million pounds. said initial estimates of the find ranged from 450 million to 1,100 million barrels, with preliminary reserve estimates -- the amount of oil that can be realised -- in the 50-200 million barrel range. Analysts said this compared favourably with recent finds in mature oil fields in the North Sea or even the Middle East, but was minor compared with new West African and Central Asian discoveries. "Whilst further evaluation and appraisal is required, I am confident that this discovery in isolation has the potential to transform the value of Cairn's portfolio," Cairn Chief Executive Bill Gammell said in a statement. Analysts have been keen to see Cairn deliver results from the desert state of Rajasthan, where it is involved in extensive exploration across a 5,000 square kilometre block but has yet to declare any of its finds commercially viable. "Even at 50 million barrels, it is enough to kickstart commercial development. It's great news for the company and looks very encouraging... It looks like this could be a company-maker," Cheuvreux analyst Peter Hitchens said. Cairn said Indian state-run oil giant Oil & Natural Gas Corp had a right to 30 percent of any development area resulting from a commercial discovery on the block. Cairn said the latest discovery was made in a large simple onshore structure at shallow depths. It said the well, 60 kilometres north of its Saraswati oil field, was currently at a depth of 1,250 metres and had not yet reached the planned total depth. "Once the well has reached total depth, a test programme is planned to confirm reservoir deliverability, after which further announcements will be made," the firm said. The company, the largest of Britain's pure exploration and production firms, said it was reviewing its drilling programme to allow for early appraisal drilling of the discovery and drilling of several similar prospects in the vicinity. Shares in Energy jumped 49 per cent to a six-year high after the UK's largest oil and exploration firm unveiled a significant discovery in the Rajasthan Basin in western India. The find could double its reserves and transform the value of the company. The discovery is one of the most significant in India's history and could be one of the largest in the world this year, analysts say. Cairn, which holds a 100 per cent interest in the field, said initial estimates for the oil in place for the N-B-1 onshore well in Rajasthan ranged from 450m to 1.1bn barrels. The preliminary reserve estimates, or the quantity of oil that could ultimately be recovered, are 50m-200m barrels. The well has yet to be appraised and the company stresses that the process is in early stages. But even by conservative estimates, Monday's find could double the size of Cairn's portfolio, which currently has 87m total reserves. Bill Gammell, Cairn's chief executive, said: "One could go a lifetime in the oil industry and not be as lucky as we have been." ONGC, India's state oil company, has a right to 30 per cent of any of the development that may stem from commercial discoveries on the block. In the mid-range scenario, a net interest of 70 per cent and net reserves of 70m barrels could be worth some $280m to Cairn, according to a Merrill Lynch research report. Cairn's shares closed up 182¼p at 552¼p. Cheers clap.gif cheers.gif thumbup.gif

Posted by: Hyagriva Jan 20 2004, 07:12 AM

Energy Security of India ranks second only to Military Defense of the Homeland and shares its place with Food/agricultural and essential Commodities. In this thread, we shall discuss the evolving and ongoing energy security of India, challenges and oppurtunities, developments and successes in this vital field. Recent discoveries of rich Oil, Gas and Gold/mineral deposits in Pakistan, the huge gas fields of Bangladesh, and not to mention Reliance's successful finds in various basins in India are prospective discussion points. Futher, the implications, posibilities and plans to realise a route to CAR nations, overland pipeline from Iran, undersea pipeline from Oman need a thorough re-visit. I start off with a bright note that: UK's Cairn reveals big India oil find Breaking news from Reuters - the URL might change, therefore posting in full.

UK's Cairn reveals big India oil find, shares soar By Santosh Menon LONDON (Reuters) - Shares in British oil and gas explorer Cairn Energy raced to a six-year high on Monday after it announced a significant oil discovery in western India which it said could transform its prospects. Investment bank ABN Amro said Cairn's discovery in Rajasthan was likely to be one of the biggest discoveries in the world this year. Cairn, which has its roots in the North Sea but is now increasingly focused on India and Bangladesh, said initial estimates of the find ranged from 450 million to 1,100 million barrels. Preliminary reserve estimates -- the amount of realisable oil -- were in the 50-200 million barrel range, the firm said. Analysts said the discovery had the capacity to more than double the company's reserve base, and with up to two similar prospects in the vicinity yet to be drilled, the region offered further exploration potential. Cairn's shares were up 40 percent, or 148 pence, at 518p by 1105 GMT, valuing the company at around 782 million pounds ($1.4 billion). "Whilst further evaluation and appraisal is required, I am confident that this discovery in isolation has the potential to transform the value of Cairn's portfolio," Chief Executive Bill Gammell said in a statement. Investors have been keen to see Cairn deliver results in Rajasthan, where it is involved in extensive exploration across a 5,000 square kilometre block but until now had yet to declare any of its finds commercially viable. They were pleased with Monday's announcement, noting that Cairn had managed to keep the news under wraps all of last week. "Our first thoughts are that it's worth between 50-150 pence a share. The market is discounting that," said Mike Felton, fund manager at ISIS Asset Management, which owns eight percent of Cairn's equity. ISIS looked set to gain around 18 million pounds from the rally in Cairn's shares, which closed at 370p on Friday. "(The discovery) further cements the fundamental attraction in the business, which is that it is focused and positioned on the Indian subcontinent. And if you buy into the emerging industrialisation of India, it's a very attractive position," added Felton. The company, the largest of Britain's pure exploration and production firms, said it was reviewing its drilling programme to allow for early appraisal drilling of the discovery and drilling of several similar prospects in the vicinity. "Even at 50 million barrels, it is enough to kickstart commercial development. It's great news for the company and looks very encouraging... It looks like this could be a company-maker," said Cheuvreux analyst Peter Hitchens, who rates the stock as "outperform". ABN Amro analyst Finlay Thomson called the discovery a "company-changing" one and the investment bank raised its rating on the stock to "buy" from "add". Merrill Lynch raised its rating on the stock to "buy" from "neutral" saying the find was potentially one of the most significant in Cairn's and India's history. Cairn said India's state-run Oil & Natural Gas Corp Ltd had a right to 30 percent of any development area resulting from a commercial discovery in the block. Cairn said the discovery was made in a large simple onshore structure at shallow depths. It said the well, 60 km north of its Saraswati oil field, was currently at a depth of 1,250 metres and had not yet reached the planned total depth. "Once the well has reached total depth, a test programme is planned to confirm reservoir deliverability, after which further announcements will be made," Cairn said.;:400c7ebf:e22ea43e6166a22e?type=businessNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4156693

Posted by: Hyagriva Jan 20 2004, 07:27 AM

I just noticed the Energy sector thread on Business and Economy Forum. Therefore this thread may well be deleted. But I suggest that the Energy thread be moved to this forum to facilitate our focus on Energy as a strategic security issue, instead of a business/economy field. Thank you.

Posted by: O Vijay Jan 20 2004, 10:23 AM

Looks like Peregrine & Hyagriva beat me to the good news. specool.gif BTW, Hyagriva welcome to the forum. Peregrine, any idea what the price differential is vis-a-vis land vs undersea? There is an 1400km oil pipline going from Assam to Bihar. So the longest part of the pipeline in India has already been surveyed. The big unknown is the proposed pipeline through Myanmar. I would assume that the South Koreans will take care of that part of the pipeline.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 20 2004, 12:24 PM

O Vijay, Please refer to my post of Nov 13 2003, 04:20 AM in respect of the Oman-India Deep Sea Pipe Line. As it is shown the cost was estimated at USD 4-5 Billion with the amendment as follows : The Pipe Line ahs three Deep Sea Sections : 1. South East from Ra’s al Jifan on the Oman Coast in the Arabian Sea up to a point South of the Iran-Lotastaan Border. 2. East from this point to a point south of Karachi approximately running along the Parallel of Latitude 21° North. 3. Finally North East to the Gujarat Coast making a Landfall at Rapar Gadhwali. The Third leg could be amended if required to let the Pipe Line run East to the Coast of Gujarat at Veraval or from the Point of Diversion South of Karachi towards Mumbai. An additional estimate was made to include spurs from the Iran and Qatar Gas Fields to this Pipe Line and then the total cost would be a Maximum of USD 6 Billion. The cost of a Land Pipe Line from the Off shore Fields of Qatar and Iran to India via Iran and Pakistan is about USD 3 to 4 Billion – with the Yearly payment of USD 600 Million to Pakistan as Transit Fees. In the case of the Deep Sea Pipe Line there are no transit fees to Pakistan and additionally to Iran - for Natural Gas of Qatar Origin – but a much smaller figure would be paid to Oman and UAE, possibly USD 50 to 100 Million. This Deep Sea Pipe Line will traverse a Distance of about 800 KM at a depth of 300 KM if to Mumbai. In comparison the Sub-Sea (not Deep Sea) Pipe Line from Off Shore Rakhine Fields to Calcutta will traverse a maximum Depth of say about 200 Metres. As the Sub-Sea pipe Line will be only about 300-400 Miles in Length vis-à-vis a land Pipe Line via East India only by circumventing Bhookhanangadesh being about 800 Miles in length I would feel that the costs would be similar or a difference of maximum 25%. This is just a guesstimate as I have not seen any project report on such a proposed Pipe Line. Regarding the Assam-Bihar Pipe Line I believe there are product pipelines from Guwahati and Nahorkhatiya to Kanpur and Barauni and then to Haldia, bypassing BD. However will need more inputs from SSridahar Guru and as such I cannot comment on your advice There is an 1400km oil pipline going from Assam to Bihar. So the longest part of the pipeline in India has already been surveyed. In my opinion this Natural Gas will feed only West Bengal and possibly the industrial belt up to Jamshedpur. Cheers

Posted by: O Vijay Jan 21 2004, 02:35 PM

Peregrine, I see Myanmar gas mostly going to NE states for economic reasons and Bihar for political reasons. Some of it will be used in the northern part of West Bengal as transit fees, but most of the Myanmar gas will not go to West Bengal. Trust me, there won't be an undersea gas line from Myanmar to West Bengal. I am sorry to say this, but West Bengal will have to get its gas from Bangladesh or any new finds off its own and the coast of Orissa. Anyways, in the long run, this is best way to divy up the natural gas resources around India. I am looking at your numbers for the undersea vs overland options. I will get back to you with more information and comments later.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 21 2004, 02:58 PM

QUOTE (O Vijay @ Jan 22 2004, 03:05 AM)
I am looking at your numbers for the undersea vs overland options. I will get back to you with more information and comments later.
O Vijay, I appreciate your idea about the Myanmar Off Shore Gas to be supplied to N E States and Bihar. So what will the N E States do with the Natural Gas Resources they already have and since it is beyond their present day requirements they cannot even pipe it across to West Bengal due to non-cooperation by Bhookhanangadesh? Don’t you think it would make sense for the N E States to utilize their own Natural Gas Resources and the Myanmar Natural Gas go to West Bengal in addition to Bihar or Jharkhand etc? Regarding undersea versus overland Natural Gas Pipe Lines from the Myanmar Off Shore Gas Fields : My figures are just a guesstimate and it in terms of a difference in percentage. I have not seen any project report nor do I have any connections in this respect. The only reason I can give you some figures on the Qatar + Iran to India Pipe Line via UAE and Oman is due to the corrospondence with SSridhar and others. I am not privy to any other knowledge. Cheers

Posted by: O Vijay Jan 21 2004, 03:09 PM

Peregrine, "Don’t you think it would make sense for the N E States to utilize their own Natural Gas Resources and the Myanmar Natural Gas go to West Bengal in addition to Bihar or Jharkhand etc?" Of course, it does, but it will never happen. Like I said before, BJP led central gov. will never pipe any of the NE or Myanmar gas to the CPI led WB because of political reasons. They would rather ship it to the BJP led gov in Bihar. Its politics pure and simple. Anyways, CPI, WB has very close relations with Bangladeshis, afterall they take in all their illegals and put them on the voter lists. So, why can't they demand that the Bangladeshis ship their gas as a trade? Its only fair.

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 24 2004, 11:36 AM ISLAMAWORST, Jan 23: Petroleum and Natural Resources Minister Noraiz Shakoor Khan on Friday said the biggest hurdle in the way of exploiting Balochistan's natural resources was the fragile security conditions in that province. He was answering questions during the question hour in the Senate. Agreeing to suggestions by many members, the minister said no doubt there was huge mineral wealth in Balochistan, including gas, oil, iron ore and zinc, but added that the security handicap had forced the government to move rather cautiously. His sweeping statement about security conditions attracted rebuttal from senators belonging to Balochistan who accused the centre of monopolizing the award of exploration contracts instead of devolving these powers to provinces. The minister then referred to some incidents in which the exploration team members, including foreigners, were targeted by outlaws in Balochistan. He then asked public representatives to back the government's efforts for exploiting to the fullest the natural resources of Balochistan. The minister said the government was paying royalty on gas produced in Balochistan. He said efforts were afoot to provide gas to Ziarat, Khuzdar, Kalat, Qila Abdullah and other towns. Sanaullah Baloch of the Balochistan National Party, Raza Mohammad Raza of the Pukhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party and Azizullah Satakzai of the MMA debunked the minister's claim that there was a potential threat that was blocking the launch of mineral exploration projects. Prof Khurshid Ahmed of the MMA, through a supplementary question, asked the minister as to why the work on oil-wells awarded in 2002 was still not completed. In a written reply, the petroleum ministry had informed the house that out of a total of 22 gas fields, 12 were at the appraisal stage and six at the production stage. The minister replied that the government had to give extension to some of the foreign companies since they had not completed their tasks. In reply to another question, the petroleum ministry stated that petrol was imported at Rs17.10 a litre and diesel at Rs14.75 a litre to which Rs14.14 and Rs7.25 was, respectively, added as taxation. The house was informed that the agreement with the Central Asian states for gas import envisaged the laying of a 1,700km pipeline from Turkmenistan which would benefit consumers in Afghanistan, Pakistan and possibly, India. In reply to a question about the tourism industry, the Senate was informed that Saudi investors had desired to build tourism resorts along the motorway and some hotels. The minister of state for tourism, Rais Munir Ahmed, said there was no tourism resort of international standards in the country and that the ministry had planned to build a few. However, he added, much of its success depended on quantum of funds to be released by the finance ministry. The minister said that due to law and order situation, foreign tourists could not be allowed to travel freely in the country without their screening by security agencies. He said there were plans to develop amusement parks in Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi. The Lotastaanis find a the biggest hurdle in the way of exploiting Balochistan's natural resources was the fragile security conditions in that province, but, they still want India to accept Natural Gas from Iran and Turkmenistan through a Pipe Line traversing these “Badlands”. Cheers

Posted by: Viren Jan 29 2004, 12:39 PM;:401931d8:0dca6f7a896f12c?type=businessNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4238010

Posted by: Peregrine Jan 30 2004, 05:19 AM NEW DELHI, JAN. 29. The prospects of a gas pipeline from Myanmar to India have brightened with the Gas Authority of India Limited (GAIL) having been directed to prepare a detailed feasibility report by June this year. It will consider various options, including a land route via Tripura and Mizoram, an offshore route through the coastal areas of Bangladesh and a deep-sea route with landing in Orissa. This was disclosed here today after a meeting of the Myanmar Energy Minister, Lun Thi, with the Petroleum Minister, Ram Naik. The meeting assumes significance since the proposed Iran-India pipeline project appears to be in the doldrums and the demand for natural gas is rising in the country. According to Mr. Naik, Myanmar may also award an oil and gas exploration block in its offshore areas in the Bay of Bengal to the ONGC Videsh Limited (OVL). This is the A-3 block which lies south of the A-1 Block where huge gas reserves were discovered earlier this month. He said the proposed gas pipeline might be used for transporting as from the A-1 block to India. Besides, yet another option of converting the natural gas into liquefied natural gas (LNG) and importing it by the sea route is being considered. Just goes to show the Intelligence of our leaders i.e. converting Natural Gas into LNG for Transport it over a distance of a maximum of 800 Kilo Metres i.e. 500 Miles. It would cost over USD 1 Billion to create an LNG loading Facility (not to talk of the receiving facility) in India where as the whole Deep Sea Pipe Line IMHO should cost may be USD 1 Billion – if not less. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Feb 9 2004, 01:43 AM QUETTA, Feb 8: The gas pipeline connecting two gas wells in the Sui area of the Dera Bugti district was damaged after unknown people fired two rockets, police official said on Sunday. The fire, which erupted soon after the attack on the pipeline, was doused after engineers cut off the affected pipeline's gas supply. Sources said that two gas wells - No 45 and 46 - were slightly damaged in the attack. Officials of the PPL replaced the damaged parts of the pipeline, restoring gas supply from these wells to the main gas plant. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Feb 14 2004, 04:30 PM SUKKUR: Outlaws blew up a 40-feet section of a gas pipeline from Sui to Karachi in a village near the border with Balochistan, reports from the area said. The explosion, which caused a huge fire, disrupted gas supply to parts of Punjab and the NWFP for 10 hours, reports added. The sabotage caused the Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) an estimated loss of Rs 100 million. Officials of the bomb-disposal squad arrived to comb the area for more explosives. SSGC Deputy General Manager Ghazi Anwar Keerio, commandant of Shahbaz Rangers and other officials inspected the site. According to them the ssaboteurs were riding motorcycles. The Associated Press also said an explosion ripped open the gas pipeline in Jacobabad and disrupted gas supply to parts of Pakistan. It was not immediately clear what caused the blast on the pipeline in Jacobabad, Din Mohammed Baloch, a government official told AP. However, a SSGC official said that gas supply to Balochistan and Sindh remained uninterrupted. He told APP that no SSGC pipeline had ruptured and gas supply in the company’s jurisdiction was normal. The official said that the gas pipeline which reportedly burst between Shikarpur and Sukkur was not operated by SSGC. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Feb 14 2004, 04:39 PM

How to Thank these devotes? God bless them long life. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Mudy Feb 18 2004, 04:14 PM,0002.htm Press Trust of India New Delhi, February 18 Aiming to become a $100 billion integrated oil and gas major in five years, state-run Oil and Natural Gas Corp (ONGC) has proposed setting up of seven non-Government firms to manage its marketing, well drilling, LNG, logistics, shipping and petrochemical businesses under a new corporate structure. In all the seven joint ventures, ONGC will have 50 per cent stake and the remaining would be offered to financial institutions and a strategic partner specialising in that particular business, the company said in a presentation to the Petroleum Ministry. ONGC says forced separation of regular manpower was not possible and competent and experienced professionals could not be attracted by PSU pay structure at middle or senior management levels. "The only practical solution is to form JVs as non-Government companies for specific purposes," the company said identifying non-core activities with profit potential and new business requiring specialisation as areas for forming non-Government companies. ONGC proposes change in the organisation structure. ONGC chairman will have a vice-chairman and managing director responsible for the firm's core business that is exploration and production and another vice-chairman and managing director for its overseas businesses (essentially ONGC Videsh Ltd). While the non-Government firms will be managed by separate managing directors, both the VC&MD will have a host of presidents responsible for finance, exploration, projects and human resources reporting to them.

Posted by: Peregrine Feb 22 2004, 11:45 AM clap.gif * Bhambhor Rifles HQ targeted QUETTA: Roughly 20 rockets hit Balochistan’s Sui area but no casualties were reported, said a Sui Police Station official on Saturday. He said 12 rockets hit a compression plant in a gas field and the Frontier Corps’ (FC) Bhambhor Rifles headquarters late Friday night. Bhambhor Rifles personnel opened fire, but no casualties were reported. Eight more rockets hit the Sui area on Saturday night, he said, adding that their target could not be confirmed and a police contingent had been dispatched to investigate. Earlier, residents in Sui said they heard six explosions and area officials were exaggerating. Reports from Sui stated that the FC had demolished civilian houses in an area allocated for a cantonment and that the local residents had retaliated. Several elders told a press conference that the FC personnel had violated the norms and values of the area and had rendered many residents homeless. The Balochistan Assembly had passed a unanimous resolution opposing the forming of three new cantonments in Balochistan’s Sui, Kohlu and Gwadar areas. President Pervez Musharraf, Prime Minister Zafarullah Jamali, the Balochistan governor and chief minister had said the cantonments would be formed despite the Balochistan Assembly’s opposition. Meanwhile, reports from Kohlu stated that two rockets were fired on Friday one of which destroyed an FC oil tanker and the other landed close to a district coordination officer’s office. No casualties were reported. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy Feb 23 2004, 11:45 AM,00050004.htm

Posted by: Peregrine Feb 24 2004, 12:36 AM india.gif clap.gif Exponential demand for natural gas from power, steel, fertiliser as also refining companies has compelled Petronet LNG Ltd to decide on doubling its capacity base at its Dahej terminal to 10 million tonne by 2006-07. PLL will commence full capacity operations of 5 million tonnes in 2005 with the arrival of the second ship from Qatar however, barely had the first LNG carrying vessel touched the Dahej port, the entire 2.5 million tonne LNG had been sold out and company is mulling spot purchases from the international market. The additional purchase is to meet the growing demand from the above-mentioned companies, many of whom are running their plants at below capacity due to non availability of natural gas. "The power and fertiliser companies are seeking LNG to meet their huge unmet demand for fuel by domestic natural gas production," PLL director (finance) P Dasgupta said here on Monday. GAIL India Ltd and Indian Oil Corporation have already indicated an additional demand of 1 million tonnes LNG in addition to the 2.5 MT. "The board of PLL has already given an in-principle clearance to the low-cost expansion and a detail feasibility report has been commissioned," PLL CEO and managing director Suresh C Mathur said. PLL, expecting to garner Rs 391 crore from IPO which will help achieve the financial closure of the project, has decided to prepay part of its Rs 1,800 crore syndicate debt by means of a Rs 525 crore bond issue by June carrying a coupon rate of 5.75 to 6.25 per cent. While the debt carries a 9 per cent interest rate, the bond issue would be partially guaranteed by the Asian Development Bank which has an over 5 per cent stake in the former. The offer of 261 million equity shares will be open for bidding from March 1 to 9 of which 25 per cent have been reserved for retail investors. Furthermore, 10 per cent have been reserved for the employees of PLL and promoters ONGC, IOC, BPCL and Gail. The remaining is reserved for qualified institutional buyers (QIBs) and non-institutional buyers or high worth individuals. Shares of the company are going to be listed on the Bombay and National Stock Exchanges. This Terminals receiving capacity of 10 Million Tons of LNG Annually is Equivalent to 483 Billion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas. This LNG supply will not be subject to any disruptions – except – from Acts of God and Restraints of Princes i.e. Governmental interference. The Pipe Line through Lotastaan will at its peak supply Two Billion Cubic Feet of Natural Gs per day i.e. 730 Billion Cubic Feet per year. Thus one terminal will supply Two Thirds of the Land Pipe Lines – via Lotastaan – capacity. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Feb 25 2004, 02:40 PM ISLAMAWORST – By resuming bilateral talks seeking resolution of outstanding issues including Kashmir, India and Pakistan have also come closer to reach an understanding for transnational gas pipeline from Iran through Pakistan to India. According to senior officials, Petroleum Secretary Abdullah Yousaf held meetings with his Indian counterparts at the sidelines of a recent oil conference in India where the idea of importing diesel from India was also discussed. The Petroleum Secretary meetings with his counterparts on Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline were the follow up of what was discussed on the project by Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali and Indian Premier Vajpayee during their meeting on the sidelines of Islamabad SAARC Summit, the officials added. The officials hinted at likelihood, in near future, of a trilateral meeting of Iran, Pakistan, and India on the transnational pipeline for which the Persian sellers are as anxious to sell their product as the Indian buyers are in dire need of gas. It is merely the conflicting politics of the region messed up by the bilateral issues which is keeping the billions of dollars’ project with promising economic prospects, they added. Asked by The Nation about his visit to India, Secretary Abdullah Yousaf confirmed that the ice has started melting on part of Indians who earlier were not even considering having a pipeline through Pakistan. The Secretary appeared encouraged of Indians’ graduation from an aversive to positive attitude towards the project which he termed as offering win-win economic prospects for all stakeholders. “They appeared, at least, willing to talk about a pipeline through Pakistan, perhaps, for the first time,” he said and added that “after all it is going to feed their fast growing demand for natural gas running into billions of cubic feet per day. “Every pipeline leading to India either from Iran or from Turkmenistan has to go through Pakistan if it has to be an economically viable project,” said Abdullah Yousaf. He said that a project promising prospects of peace in the region in addition to offering economic benefits for all should be done for good. Although the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan Pipeline offers a natural extension to India, the Indian appeared to more inclined towards the materialisation of gas pipeline from Iran. Therefore, the pipeline he considers as most feasibility from the economic aspect is being impeded by its conflicting political aspect, he added. If India builds the Six to Eight LNG Terminals as originally planned then I don’t think there is any need for India to let Lotastaan control India’s Energy Jugular Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Mar 2 2004, 02:21 AM

SSridhar : Iranian-Qatari Natural Gas to India. As we are all very weary of having a Pipe Line through Lotastaan we are overlooking the costs involved. The Pipe Line is to Transport Two Billion cubic feet of Natural Gas per day i.e. 730 Billion Cubic feet per year which is equal to about 15 Million Tonnes of LNG. A. Cost of Building the Pipe Line : USD 3 to 4 Billion B. Cost of Transit : USD 600 Million per year C. Therefore, cost of transporting 15 Million Tonnes of LNG as Natural Gas is USD 40 per Tonne. D. Cost of Building an LNG Receiving Terminal and all associated Infrastructure is about USD 1.5 Billion E. Cost of each 135,000 CBM LNG Carrier USD 160 Million i.e. you get 12 LNG Carriers for say USD 2 Billion which should jointly carry say about 750,000 Tonnes of LNG F. As such you need each LNG Carrier to perform 20 Voyages per Year i.e. 18 days per Voyage with say Five Days for Yearly Dry Docking and Maintenance. G. Qatar-Cochin-Qatar Round Voyage 4000 miles at 15 Knots is say 12 Days. I think 3 days to load and 3 days to discharge should be sufficient time - Distance is Mena-al-Ahmadi to Cochin. The South Pars-Qatari Fields will shorten the distance. H. As such if the Liquefaction + Freighting + Gasification cost is less than USD 40 per Tonne then we have a winner on our hands. Of course the distance to Mangalore, Mormugao, Mumbai, Pipav, Dahej, Hazira and Kandla should be shorter. In case we get Natural Gas by a Pipe Line through Lotastaan then we have to consider the additional cost of building Pipe Lines from the Indian – Lotastaani Border to the West Coast of India. Await your views Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Mar 5 2004, 02:17 PM

is it good or bad ?,00020001.htm Arun Kumar New Delhi, March 5 It was a high-octane performance by ONGC on Friday as the world’s second largest public offer was oversubscribed within two hours of opening. For the $2 billion worth of ONGC shares on offer, the government got bids worth more than $3 billion. Legendary stock market investor and Berkshire Hathway boss Warren Buffett is reported to have invested in excess of $1 billion in the public offer. This is the first time Buffet has directly invested in the Indian stock market. Investment banking sources said the Securities and Exchange Board of India has given special permission to Berkshire Hathway to invest through participatory notes so that he could maintain anonymity. Once the news spread that Buffet was buying, the markets picked up, with the ONGC scrip closing at Rs 802, up Rs 42.20 on the Bombay Stock Exchange. The ONGC issue is the largest in Indian capital market history, with 14.259 crore shares being sold through the book-building route in a price band of Rs 680 to Rs 750 per share. The issue could mop up anywhere between Rs 9,700 crore and Rs 10,700 crore. Retail investors will be given shares at a 5 per cent discount to the final price. Market movers were gushing in their praise of the IPO. Uday Kotak, chairman of Kotak Mahindra Capital, said, "The Indian market has graduated.gifd to a different league today. It will force all the leading funds of the world to look at India which is truly a happening story." “The credit for this success goes to the government, the company and the investment bankers,” said Hemendra Kothari, chairman of DSP Merrill Lynch. In June 2003, the government raised Rs 1,000 crore through the offer for sale in Maruti. The ONGC success story will increase India's weightage in the high-profile Morgan Stanley Capital Index (MSCI), which determines the emerging market fund flows.

Posted by: rajesh_g Mar 5 2004, 02:52 PM

The ONGC success story will increase India's weightage in the high-profile Morgan Stanley Capital Index (MSCI), which determines the emerging market fund flows.
Mudy, Just for this alone - its good. And the other reason its good is - Warren Buffet. His opinion carries lotsa weight.

Posted by: thalapathi Mar 5 2004, 08:10 PM

Oil & Natural Gas shares rose 42.2 rupees, or 5.5 percent, to 802.25 rupees at the 3:30 p.m. close in Mumbai. The gain was partly because of speculation billionaire investor Warren Buffett had bid for shares. Report on Buffett Buffett, 73, denied the speculation in a statement through his spokeswoman Debbie Bosanek in Omaha, Nebraska. Berkshire may report tomorrow quarterly profit rose more than 40 percent after he increased prices at his insurance units, according to Credit Suisse First Boston's Charles Gates. ``Normally we don't comment, but this statement is being erroneously used in promotion of a new issue,'' Bosanek said. ``The truth is Berkshire never considered buying shares in India's Oil and Natural Gas Corp.'' Crisil MarketWire, a local news agency, reported that Buffett had bid $1 billion for half the shares offered. The report cited an unnamed investment banker. Full article :

Posted by: Peregrine Mar 9 2004, 01:24 PM india.gif clap.gif TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ WEDNESDAY, MARCH 10, 2004 12:05:55 AM ] DELHI : When foreign investors voted for India on Friday by rushing to mop up equity offering from state-owned explorer ONGC, they were not wrong. British explorer Cairn Energy Tuesday announced its second big oil find in Rajasthan’s Barmer district, estimated to hold between 100 and 460 million tonnes of the black gold. Investment bankers had dubbed Cairn’s oil find in the same district in January as one of the biggest in the world, named Mangala, with reserves ranging between half-a-billion to 1.1 billion barrels of crude oil. The deserts of Rajasthan are also proving to be lucky for ONGC. The country’s flagship explorer will get to share 30% of the spoils from both the oilfields since these were handed over before the government started auctioning exploration blocks. The Barmer oilfield had originally been given to Shell, which subsequently lost interest and sold it to Cairn for $8 million. Tuesday’s oil find is eight km south from Mangala which is 60 km north-west of the Saraswati river in Barmer. Oil minister Ram Naik said this and Mangala would constitute the biggest oil find since Mumbai High in 1974. In London , investors said the latest find will make foreign investors look more closely at Indian oil and gas sector. Tuesday’s find is expected to yield half a million tonnes*** of crude a year. This is good news for a country that imports almost 70% of its annual crude requirement of over 110 million tonnes. The find compares well with the Ravva oilfield and is about one-third of the estimates for Mangala. Cairn has been involved in extensive exploration across a 5,000-sq km block in Rajasthan. *** : This figure seems to be on the low side. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Mar 14 2004, 03:59 PM

Cross Posted on Lotastaan Thread : pakee.gif SUKKUR: Main Sui gas pipelines for supplying gas to Sindh, Punjab and NWFP, were not safe despite deployment of strong contingent of police and other law enforcing agencies. The outlaws blow the pipeline almost every week, due to which smooth supply of gas to all the three provinces has become very difficult. Recently a 26" diameter Sui gas pipeline was blown away near village Mazari, in Sindh-Punjab border area, due to which some two kilometre-long pipeline was changed, which caused expenditure of Rs 50 millions, while the loss occurred due to the leakage of gas was also in millions. In June last year with the approval of federal government, Engineer Corps personnel were deployed at the Sindh-Punjab border area, while services of Sindh Rangers were provided for Sindh-Balochistan border area. More than 200 attacks were carried out on the personnel of law-enforcement agencies, deployed for the security of gas pipeline, due to which some 50 personnel were injured. Besides, 15 vehicles were destroyed after hitting the landmines, laid in the area by the outlaws. The Punjab police have so far arrested some 50 suspects, on the alleged charges of attacking the personnel. Our India-Lotastaan Bhai Bhai Congress Leaders and DDM wanting the Iran and Turkmenistan Natural Gas Pipe Line via Lotastaan should take note. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Mar 19 2004, 12:45 PM

SINGAPORE: A Chinese state oil trader said on Thursday it had inked a preliminary deal to import more than 110 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas over 25 years from Iran for $20 billion as China grows thirsty for energy.
Can anyone throw light on the price India pays the Qataris for the LNG and also the cost of shipment to Dahej Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Mar 21 2004, 10:19 AM 2 hours, 3 minutes ago Add Science - AFP NEW DELHI (AFP) - India is considering taking part in the ambitious international project to develop a nuclear fusion reactor, billed as a clean and inexhaustible source of energy, an official said. V.S. Ramamurthy, secretary in the science and technology ministry, said India, which declared itself a nuclear power in 1998, found the fusion project "interesting." "The government will be considering it," Ramamurthy said, noting that India had abundant skilled labour to work on a hi-tech project. The Hindu newspaper reported that Ramamurthy discussed the reactor plan last week in New Delhi with the visiting chief science adviser to the British government, David King. The report said King suggested that India could be a "junior partner" to reduce its financial contribution to the 10-billion-dollar project Ramamurthy said Sunday that if India joined the effort it would have to contribute around "several billion rupees." Three billion rupees converts to 66.5 million dollars. Ramamurthy acknowledged there would be a "political" dimension to Indian participation. India invited an array of military sanctions in 1998 by carrying out nuclear tests, which were quickly followed by rival Pakistan. "Today's politics cannot be deciding factor for the future," Ramamurthy said. The nuclear fusion project is a collaboration by the European Union (news - web sites), Russia, China, the United States, South Korea (news - web sites) and Japan. Two sites, the French town of Cadarache and the northern Japanese village of Rokkasho-mura, are vying to host the nuclear fusion reactor, which would be operational in 2014.

Posted by: Peregrine Mar 26 2004, 12:55 AM NEW DELHI, March 25: Finance Minister Shaukat Aziz said on Thursday that the proposed Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline could become the turning point in the evolution of happy ties with New Delhi. Mr Aziz also told CNBC TV channel that tourism between the two countries could be boosted to the benefit of both. He added that come private sector companies were already active in exploring and expanding the facility. Asked in the late night broadcast if the time was ripe for Indian businessmen to invest directly in Pakistan, he said it was premature though not impossible to envisage it. There had to be the right atmosphere for business prospects to grow between the two countries, he said without referring to the Kashmir dispute, which many believe is holding up key areas of cooperation. Mr Aziz has been personally involved in the deep and complex negotiations of the pipeline project. Indian news reports said Mr Aziz had met Indian National Security Adviser Brajesh Mishra in Lahore on the margins of the cricket final match between the two countries. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Apr 1 2004, 12:26 PM,0002.htm Reliance makes 2 new gas discoveries in Bay of Bengal Press Trust of India New Delhi, April 1 Reliance Industries Ltd has made two new gas discoveries at its D-6 block, the site of the world's largest gas find of 2002, in Bay of Bengal. The K-1 and K-2 wells, the ninth and tenth consecutive successful wells drilled early this year in the 1.9 million acre D-6 block, struck the gas reserves. The K-2 discovery well, located east of the Dhirubhai field, flowed gas at a constrained rate of about 30 million cubic feet per day during testing. The well, located in 992 metre of water, was drilled to a total depth of 2220 metre, Niko Resources of Canada, RIL's minority partner in the block, said. The K-1 well also encountered gas though no flow rates were available. K-1, also located east of Dhirubhai, was drilled in 1031 metre of water to a total depth of 2531 metre. Niko Resources said the two fields were of similar size though RIL was still evaluating the reserve potential. "All drilling to date has occurred in the first 1800 square km area covered by the first 3D seismic programme. An additional 2500 square km of 3D seismic is currently being shot," Niko said. Reliance Industries is the operator of D-6 block with 90 per cent stake while Niko Resources has remaining 10 per cent. During 2003, RIL drilled eight wells in the block it won in the first round of international bidding, with seven discovering significant quantities of gas. no estimated volume is given The Dhirubai A-1 well was RIL's first east coast offshore discovery. An independent engineering report prepared by DeGolyer and MacNaughton (D&M) has assigned gross in-place reserves on a technically proven, probable and possible basis of 9.96 trillion cubic feet. Reliance has, however, estimated that the block contains reserves in excess of 14.5 tcf. First production from the block is expected to commence in 2005. Meanwhile, Reliance plans to carry out a three well exploration programme in the 3.5 million acres NEC-25 block off the Orissa coast. A 3D seismic program covering 1,800 square km or 12 per cent of the block, has been shot. Utilizing the 2D and 3D seismic, several rollover anticlines at the Miocene level have been identified. "These structures are smaller than those on Block D-6 with potential reserves in the 1 to 2 tcf range each," Niko said.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 8 2004, 11:14 AM

Trains may soon run on bio-diesel Chennai, Apr 8: Following the directive of the Railway Board to all zonal railways in the country to try using bio-diesel as an alternative to petrol-diesel for its locomotives and vehicles owned by the railways, the Loco Works Department at the Integral Coach Factory in Chennai had started using bio-diesel for its three vehicles (one van and two jeeps) from today. At a function held in the Integral Coach Factory (ICF), Southern Railway general manager and ICF in-charge V Anand flagged off the vehicles. Test- trial using bio-diesel on locomotives would be taken up within a year. V Anand, general manager, Southern Railway, inspecting the bio-diesel trial plant at ICF, Perambur, Chennai, today. Bio-diesel, which is developed at a plant specially commissioned for the purpose at ICF, uses a process called esterification to convert plant seed oil into bio-diesel. The oil is collected from the seeds of the plants Jetropha and Karanjia (Pungam), which are perennial and need less water for cultivation. As India is yet to formulate any standards for bio-diesel, the Loco Works Department had followed the European and American standards in producing this alternative, Jaisingh, Chief Workshop Manager, Loco Works told News Today . At present, the cost of production of bio-diesel for one litre had been worked out at around Rs 35. Once mass production starts, the price of one litre would be around Rs 20, he said. He said that apart from the cost factor, bio-diesel was environment- friendly and would be of great help to rural farmers who cultivates Jetropha and Karanjia. The Loco Works buys these plants from the farmers and had started cultivating these plants in vacant land belonging to the railways. He further said bio-diesel can be used by mixing it with ordinary diesel or be used in pure form in vehicles. The properties of bio-diesel is almost similar to ordinary diesel. Hence, there is no need for altering the engine, he added. A second plant for mass production of bio-diesel is getting ready at the ICF, he said. In a chat with reporters on the sidelines of the inaugural function, Anand said Metre Gauge lines between Egmore and Tambaram would be closed for conversion by around 15 May. The work would be completed in four months, he added.

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 15 2004, 08:21 AM

QUOTE (Peregrine @ Mar 20 2004, 01:15 AM) Can anyone throw light on the price India pays the Qataris for the LNG and also the cost of shipment to Dahej Cheers
Peregrine ji Sorry for a delayed response. For RasGas(Qatar), the price is likely to be fixed at US$ 24 per barrel of crude instead of a varying price band. The delivered cost to customers is likely to be USD 4 ~ USD 5 per MMBTU which the current government has wisely decided to defer till after the elections. Added Later Dahej terminal (including the two LNG tankers) costed USD 1.8 B and Rasgas invested around USD 1.1 B for its facilities.

Posted by: Peregrine Apr 15 2004, 03:20 PM

SSridhar : Many thanks your information.

While PLL is buying five million tonnes of LNG from RasGas on FoB (free on board) price of 2.53 dollars per million BTU (British Thermal Unit), the additional quantities would be bought on CIF (cost including freight) basis. For the contracted five million tonnes, PLL has chartered two tankers from Mitsui at 69,000 dollars per day rate (translating into 0.26 dollars per million BTU) and the additional quantities would be shipped by Qatar Shipping which has spare LNG tankers.
In this case the C & F (possibly CIF) price of Qatari LNG to Dahej works out to USD 2.53 + USD 0.26 i.e. USD 2.79 per mmbtu i.e. USD 145 per MT Compare this Indian cost with the Chinese Import of LNG :
1. A Chinese state oil trader said on Thursday it had inked a preliminary deal to import more than 110 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas over 25 years from Iran for $20 billion as China grows thirsty for energy. 2.China inked a pact last October to take up to 100 million tonnes of LNG from the Gorgon project in Australia over 25 years for A$25 billion ($19.2 billion).
In this case China gets the Iranian LNG at USD 182 per MT and the Australian LNG at USD 192 per MT. I presume that these are C&F (possibly CIF). While the Freight Rate from the Qatar-Iran LNG Load Port to Dahej is USD 13.50 PMT of LNG over a distance of about 1,200 Miles the Distance to Shanghai I about 5,800 Miles and fromAustralian Load Port to say Shanghai is about 4,500 Miles could increase the Freight by USD 30 or so. We now have the latest offer from Iran to India
This means that as against the agreed FOB price of $2.53 per mmbtu between Petronet LNG Ltd (PLL) and RasGas, the Iranian LNG price would be close to $2 per mmbtu, which is a substantial reduction.
In this case the C & F price to ports up to Mumbai will be about USD 2.30 per mmbtu i.e. about USD 120 PMT of LNG. The Article further state :
This means that as against the agreed FOB price of $2.53 per mmbtu between Petronet LNG Ltd (PLL) and RasGas, the Iranian LNG price would be close to $2 per mmbtu, which is a substantial reduction.
It is hoped that RasGas will eventually match the Iranian prices and in this case India’s import of LNG might be about USD 140 PMT ON AN AVERAGE OF west and East Coast of India Destinations. With prices reducing to these levels it begs the two questions : 1. Is there a need to import Natural Gas from Iran etc. by a Land Pipe Line through Lotastaan? 2. Is there an anticipation of a glut of Natural Gas / LNG? BTW : I have been trying to get the Costs of Liquefaction of Natural Gas to LNG and also the cost of Gasification of LNG to Natural Gas but have had no success yet. Let me know if you get anything. I also remember the Iranian President during his visit to India at the time of last years Republic Day Celebrations offered India Natural Gas at about USD 1.90 per mmbtu but am not aware if it was basis passing Iran-Lotastaan Border or Loatastaan-India Border. For your record the Transit cost of USD 600 Million per Year to Lotastaan is basis delivering Two Billion mmbtu of Natural Gas per day which equates to 15 Million Tonnes of LNG i.e. a rate of USD 40 per equivalent Tonne of LNG. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Apr 21 2004, 03:41 AM SUKKUR, April 20: The supply of Sui gas to Karachi, Hyderabad, Larkana, Shikarpur, Sukkur, Nawabshah and several cities in the Punjab was affected when the main gas pipeline from Sui to Shikarpur on the Sindh-Balochistan border was damaged by a bomb attack late on Monday night. Local authorities described it as the latest in a series of attempts by saboteurs to create problems for gas companies and disrupt their operation. The supply to some of the cities in Sindh and Punjab was restored by an alternative line after about five hours of hectic efforts. The main pipeline was damaged near the village of Hiranpur, about 30 kilometres from Kandhkot in an area bordering the jurisdiction of Risaldar and Bhittai colony police stations. Reports reaching here said that the huge explosion rocked the entire locality and blew up about 15 feet of the pipeline. It caused a 30-foot ditch in the area. According to officials here, the explosion caused a loss of millions of rupees in leaked gas. A press release issued by the Sui Southern Gas Company said, the blast occurred at 11.20pm on Monday night, about 1.5 kms from the G-2 valve assembly. Repair teams, the press release said, had been mobilized and the estimated repair time was 36 to 40 hours because the approach was difficult, there being no metalled road and the water table being high. Rangers personnel were helping the teams by clearing the area of possible landmines and providing access. The SSGC, the press release said, had tightened its own security in the area. It quoted a company spokesman as saying that frequent incidents of pipelines sabotage needed to be taken cognizance of at the national level. The SSGC, he said, was making all possible efforts to maintain uninterrupted gas supplies to all of its customers. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Apr 30 2004, 11:54 AM

From : The Economist – A Subscription Site : The oil wars user posted image China and Japan are locked in a fierce diplomatic and economic struggle to win access to Russian oil THE oil city of Daqing, in the bleak plains of north-eastern China, was once a proud symbol of the country's self-reliant spirit. The discovery of huge reserves there in 1959 allowed China to end its dependence on Soviet oil supplies, and fortified the country in its subsequent cold-war struggle with its fellow communist neighbour. Daqing's ubiquitous rigs still pump away, but output from the ageing field is dropping off. Meanwhile, China's economic boom has produced a growing hunger for energy that only foreign supplies can satisfy. Energy strategists in Beijing now see great promise in the former Soviet Union. Unfortunately, so too does China's old rival, Japan. If China has its way, Daqing would be the terminus of a crude-oil pipeline beginning 2,300km (1,430 miles) away in Angarsk, at the southern end of Lake Baikal in eastern Siberia. And if Daqing has its way, it would become a refining centre for the Russian oil, which would help revive the fortunes of a city plagued a couple of years ago by large-scale protests involving laid-off oil workers. The pipeline could provide 20m-30m tonnes of crude a year, the equivalent of up to 30% of China's current imports. But Japan's rival idea is to pipe the oil instead to the port of Nakhodka, where it could be shipped to Japan and other markets (including China). A branch line could in theory be built to Daqing, but doubts abound on all sides as to whether there would be enough oil in Angarsk to fill it. user posted image Promising though eastern Siberia's oil resources appear to be, they have yet to be tapped commercially. Even to be sure of filling the original proposed pipeline to Daqing, Russia would have to depend initially at least on supplies from the better developed fields of western Siberia. But this did not stop Japan wading in a year ago with its proposal for a route that would cost nearly twice as much (about $5 billion) and take far longer to build than the Daqing line—to the intense fury of the Chinese who thought they had a deal sewn up. Many analysts believe that the Russians may now favour Japan over their “strategic partners” in China. The Japanese scheme would avoid dependency on a single market. It also includes provisions for billions of dollars of Japanese investment in oil exploration in eastern Siberia—much needed if Russia is to realise the full potential of the area (though possible Japanese investors, worried about the economic viability of the project, have been lukewarm to the idea). And the chief Russian backer of the Daqing proposal, the private oil company Yukos, suffered a severe blow to its political influence with arrest of its chairman, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, last year on charges of fraud and tax evasion. Oksana Antonenko of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London believes the Russians have already decided on the Nakhodka route. This, she says, would fit better with Mr Putin's plans to develop the Russian Far East, since the Nakhodka line would be better able to supply domestic markets as well as foreign buyers. The possibility of building a branch line to Daqing would theoretically be kept open, “but this diversion would simply not ever happen.” Where would this leave China? Its biggest concern is protecting itself against the price volatility of international markets. At present, China imports about a third of its oil requirements. This could rise to some 60% by 2030. More than half of China's oil imports come from the Middle East. The oil is shipped through the Malacca Strait between Malaysia and Indonesia, an area notorious for well-organised piracy. China's navy is ill-equipped to carry out duties much beyond its shores. Instability in the Middle East, and its impact on prices, has focused the minds of policymakers across North-East Asia on the need to diversify their supplies. Uncertainty over the Daqing scheme and worries about the Middle East have made China all the keener to explore other options. A long-standing proposal for an oil pipeline from Central Asia to China, which had made little headway because of cost concerns, is back on the table. President Nursultan Nazarbayev of Kazakhstan is due to visit Beijing in mid-May and is expected to sign an agreement on the construction of a 1,200km cross-border section of the pipeline from Atasu in Kazakhstan to Dushanzi in China's Xinjiang region. Work could begin this summer and be completed possibly within a couple of years. The pipeline would link up with Kazakhstani pipelines connecting to the Caspian Sea region, far to the west. Even so, the oil would still have far to go before reaching the booming coastal areas of China where it is needed most. It is an extremely costly proposition (Chinese reports suggest around $3 billion just for the route from Kazakhstan to Xinjiang) for a projected supply of 20m tonnes a year. But Scott Roberts of Cambridge Energy Research Associates, a consultancy firm, says that while the costs are high “there is a strategic value at stake. China's oil security is increasingly important to its overall economic and political security and from that standpoint, yes, it makes great sense if you can ensure that the supply reaches your market reliably.” China has offered a spectacular demonstration of its willingness to lavish money on strategically important energy schemes, with its 4,000km (2,500 mile) natural-gas pipeline from Lunnan, in Xinjiang, to Shanghai. This $15 billion project, one of China's costliest-ever infrastructure developments, is due to become fully operational later this year, ahead of schedule. China sees the development of Xinjiang's backward economy as important to the country's stability. It is also eager to promote the use of gas, which is less polluting than China's main energy source, coal. By the time the Xinjiang gas reaches consumers in eastern China, its price will hardly be competitive with that of alternative fuels. But that is of little concern in Beijing. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine May 2 2004, 07:11 AM clap.gif JACOBABAD: An explosion tore open the 20-inch diameter gas pipeline Sunday in Goth Fazal Mohammed Hajano about 80 kilometers’ distance from Jacobabad. The pipeline was supplying gas to Punjab from Sui gas field. The blast at the pipeline damaged an eight feet piece of the line. Gas supply to adjacent areas of Punjab and Sindh provinces was discontinued due to the blast. The cities and towns affected including Kandhkot, Kashmor, Dadu, Shikarpur, Rajanpur, Rahimyarkhan and Sadiqabad. thumbup.gif A bomb disposal squad team from Sukkur inspected the pipeline’s damaged portion in Tangwani police station jurisdiction. It is the second blast within a month’s duration. The pipeline blast will decrease the gas supply of the Sui Southern Gas Company upto 140 million cubic feet, General Manager Sui Southern Gas Company Hassan Nawab told Geo TV. However, the company has declined to comment on the incident. The repair work will be completed within next 24 hours, he further said. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy May 2 2004, 07:27 AM

cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine May 14 2004, 12:50 AM

Also posted on the Lotastaani Thread : pakee.gif KARACHI: Chairman Gwadar port Implementation Authority, Abkar Ali.A.Pinsani has said that China will get crude oil from Iran and Africa through Gwadar port. He told Dow Jones Wires that this will save China its costs on the imports of the crude oil. Pinsani maintained that the oil would be transported through railways to China. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy May 15 2004, 11:51 PM

Cong will not disinvest Oil sector- Manmohan Singh - That explains meeting between Ambani and Sonia. Sonia got PM seat and Ambani his oil sector security. That shows what are her interest.

Posted by: Peregrine May 21 2004, 12:41 AM Last week, American users paid over $2 for a gallon of regular gasoline at pumps across the country, as prices jumped by nearly 8% in a single week. Over the year, gasoline has become more than 50%dearer than last-year levels. India , however, has been spared oil shocks —for nearly 5 months, oil prices are static. We pulled off this miracle for two reasons: first, India 's oil sector is dominated by state-owned companies like IOC-IBP, BPCL and HPCL. Two, the outgoing NDA regime froze retail prices fearing a backlash from voters before the long April-May general elections. Trouble is, crude prices show no sign of softening, building pressure for retail rates to soar. How will Manmohan Singh's new government that'll be inaugurated tomorrow, deal with the gremlin? One option is to roll over and pretend nothing's happening —if crude rates soften quickly, oil companies will absorb some hits on the bottomline, but the government can get away with holding prices. Fat chance. Prices are soaring because an unusually early and hot summer has increased fuel demand in America and Europe — people run coolers, or take off on holidays. The US war machine is running at full throttle — factories are churning out guns, Humvees and ammo at a red hot pace — burning even more oil and gas. Result: US crude inventories are at the bottom of the acceptable band. America 's Energy Information Administration warns that stocks have to go up sharply to meet higher demand. Meanwhile OPEC, the Gulf cartel that has a stranglehold on oil prices, is playing hardball: since February, it has cut production boosting prices, rather than the other way round. That too when oil prices have been above the $23-$28 band that OPEC finds acceptable for the last 8 months. America 's purchases have to go up. Unless OPEC opens up the spigots dramatically after its June 3 meeting in Vienna , crude prices will continue hard for a long time. Though India 's oil ministry keeps fobbing off criticism with a lot of gobbledegook about booking cheap crude on forwardmarkets, there's no way to stave off an imminent price rise. Prime minister Singh can't do an ostrich on this one. If prices have to go up, India , which imports 70%of the crude it needs, will have to look for sources of cheap oil. We buy something called the Japanese crude cocktail (JCC), which trades about a dollar lower than costly Brent or West Texas Intermediate (WTI) oils which are about $41.50 a barrel now. What if we could find suppliers willing to offer deep discounts on crude oil? Do such people exist? They do, but only in Russia , a country that now accounts for less than 3% of India 's $100 billion trade flows. Since the late 1980s, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, trade has fallen sharply as markets for traditional stuff like tobacco, tea, leather and drugs have contracted, rivals like Sri Lanka and Kenya have barged in and a Byzantine barter system called the rupee-rouble agreement has driven out all good Indian companies from Russian markets, leaving all commerce to shady operators and touts. “In Russia , ‘made in India ' now stands for ‘substandard,'" says an official at the ministry of commerce. India continues to import Russian weapons, but that's about it. The collapse of communism led to technological backwardness in most Russian industries and as India opened up to the West after 1991, its need for Russian stuff shrank. But Russia is a giant energy producer, with some estimates saying that gas exports alone make up a quarter of national income. It's energy sector, like everything else, collapsed in the early 1990s but by 1999, output had started climbing rapidly. Today, president Putin is beefing up the regulatory system, cracking down on black market exports of energy that dodge Russia 's high energy export taxes, and investments by Western energy companies have increased the technological efficiency of the sector. India already has a foot in the door. State-owned ONGC is part of a consortium that includes America 's Exxon-Mobil drilling for oil off Sakhalin . You can't ship this directly to India , but the oil can be sold to Japan and swapped with other crude. But beyond Sakhalin , can the two governments work out a cut-price deal? They can, provided India eases up on slapping antidumping cases on Russian imports. These cases allege that Moscow is selling stuff like machines to India below cost. The exporter has to prove this isn't so, a process that can take months, sometimes years. “Russia's problem is that it's still ranked as a non-market economy.Many companies are owned partially by the government or have been privatized recently and don't have accounts up to scratch," says an analyst familiar with these cases. India could dangle this as a carrot to get into Russia 's oil sector in a big way. With an effective counter to OPEC, it can bargain for -and get - cut rate oil. That, in turn, could cure the government's energy shock headache for good. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Jun 3 2004, 05:45 PM

Here goes Foreign reserve. sad.gif

Posted by: Arun Jun 9 2004, 08:33 AM

The state-owned oil companies in 2002-03 charged a stupendous $110.25 per barrel from customers but they bought the oil for an average $26 a barrel. That's a difference of $84 from the well-head to the petrol pump..............
Oil industry experts reckon that the companies are raking in massive net profits of around $19.5 on every barrel of oil that reaches the public. By international standards that's an amazingly high figure. Most international companies earned net profits of between $0.62 and $1.38 a barrel during 1999-2002......................

Posted by: Peregrine Jun 9 2004, 01:59 PM liar.gif About Two Years ago – Nov 11 2002 Possibly – there was an article in the TradeWinds, a Shipping Magazine, interviewing the Chairman of National Iranian Tanker Company Mr. Mohd. Suri. Two matters, in main, were discussed : 1. NITC had discussed the matter of a fleet of LNG Carriers and felt that to service the LNG produced by Iran a fleet of about 30-33 Vessels would be require. Of these the NITC would have 12 to 16 under its Ownership and he expected that a “friendly consortium to acquire the remaining. 2. As per the research carried out by the NITC it was found that it would be more Economical to transport Natural Gas in the form of LNG by LNG Carriers to India than have it transported by a Land Pipe Line via Lotastaan to India. Unfortunately I cannot access the TradeWinds Archive as it a subscriber site. However I have the following information – in good faith – to hand : AA : Approximate Cost Analysis of Transporting Natural Gas via a Pipe Line through Lotastaan 1. Cost of Land Pipe Line from Iran via Lotastaan – About USD 4 Billion 2. Cost of Transit Dues in Iran : USD 600 Million Annually (I have assumed that Iran would also put a Transit Cost same as Lotastaan. 3. Cost of Transit Dues in Lotastaan : USD 600 Million Annually 4. The Pipe Line would Transport 2 Billion Standard Cubic Feet of Gas per day. This equates to be equal to about 15 Million Tons of LNG Annually. 5. From the cost of building the Pipe Line I would allow USD 300 Million in Interest and Depreciation. I would use the Depreciation for Repayment of the Original Capital. 6. Thus the cost of Transporting the Natural Gas equates to a Figure of USD 1.5 Billion Annually i.e. say a figure of USD 100 per Ton of LNG. BB : Approximate Cost Analysis of Transporting Natural Gas in the form of LNG by an LNG Carrier : 1. Cost of Liquefaction : About USD 1 per Million BTU i.e. USD 52 per Ton of LNG. 2. Cost of Transporting the LNG from Qatar-Iran to Northern Portion of West Coast India i.e. Mumbai-Kandla Range : USD 0.26per Million BTU i.e. USD 13.52 per Ton of LNG. 3. Cost of Re-Gasification : USD 0.40 per Million BTU i.e. USD 20.80 per Ton. 4. Thus total cost of Transporting Natural Gas in the form of LNG including Re-Gasification : USD 1.66 per Million BTU i.e. USD 86.32 There is one item that I have not included for the Natural Gas Pipe Line i.e. The Insurance Premium for its passage via Iran which I expect to be reasonable and the Insurance Premium for passing through Lotastaan which I expect to be “horrendous”. I have also not allowed for the “Cost of maintenance and most Important the cost to ensure the Safety and Security of the Pipe Line” through Lotastaan against Lotastaani-Islamic Terrorists. As far as the LNG is concerned the costs at the Liquefaction Plant, Sea Freight and Re-Gasification include the costs of Insurance Premium are included in the above Estimates. CC : The only figures I could be wrong are (a) Transit Costs for Iran – Iran might not charge anything (b) Liquefaction Costs © Re-Gasification Costs. I may get more accurate information later but fellow members are requested to find as much information as possible. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Jun 16 2004, 07:56 AM clap.gif thumbup.gif Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 17 2004, 10:47 AM India News > Anti-Enron crusader dies New Delhi, June 17 (IANS) : Pradyumna Kaul, one of India's vociferous critics of bankrupt US-based energy firm Enron's Dhabhol power project in India, has passed away, according to an announcement Thursday.

Posted by: Peregrine Jun 20 2004, 02:55 PM pakee.gif Suspected local tribesmen in south-west Pakistan have wrecked an airport in a rocket attack on the country's biggest natural gas field, police say. The unidentified assailants fired more than 20 rockets at the airport building in the town of Sui in Balochistan province, security officials said. The airport belonged to a state-run gas company, Pakistan Petroleum. Correspondents say local tribesmen are in dispute with the company over royalties from the gas fields. During the raid on Saturday night, the assailants opened fire on paramilitary Frontier Corps soldiers who were guarding the airport and the gas pipeline. They retaliated, but it was not clear whether any of the attackers had been hurt, according to local police officials. The officials said the small two-room airport building was totally destroyed by the rocket barrage. Some reports say the attackers had planted explosives around the wall of the building. The Lotastaanis cannot protect an Airport so how are they going to protect a Natural Gas Pipe Line. Cheer cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jun 25 2004, 10:35 AM pakee.gif EBRD approves loan for Kazakh-Chinese pipeline link ALMATY: The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) has approved plans for its first loan to Kazakhstan's oil sector, for a pipeline to take oil to China, an EBRD official said on Friday. The EBRD's board has approved lending 81.6 million dollars (67 million euros) to MunaiTas, the Chinese-Kazakh joint operator of the 450-kilometre (280-mile) Kenkiyak-Atyrau pipeline in western Kazakhstan, EBRD spokesman told a foreign news agency. Details of the loan will be made public following its final signing, he said. The Kenkiyak-Atyrau pipeline currently carries oil from western Kazakhstan to the Capsian port city of Atyrau on its way to Russia. In the future, it will become part of a 3,000-kilometer pipeline to be built across Kazakhstan to carry oil from Caspian oil fields to China. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jun 26 2004, 10:37 PM Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan have lot of oil and a whole lot of gas. All that oil and all that gas are going to pass through Pakistan. We are the only bridge between Central Asian oil and the rest of the world. But, are we? Are we going to make hundreds of millions of dollars in transit fees every year? First things first. The two principal engines of growth in Asia are China and India. India is now the 3rd largest economy (purchasing power parity basis) on the face of the planet. As India grows so would its need for oil and gas (India doesn’t have much of its own). In order for pipelines to be economically viable the reservoirs have to be large enough so as to be able to fulfil the needs of the user for a good 30 to 40 years. The three primary reservoirs of oil and gas in the region are: Apsheron Trend Oil Field, Dauletabad Gas Field and South Pars Gas Field. Not too long ago estimates of Caspian Sea oil reserves ranged from 115 billion to 200 billion barrels. Central Asia was being looked at as being the largest reservoir of oil and gas. More recent estimates have drastically cut down almost all figures down to under 20% of original claims. Kazakhstan’s proven oil reserves are sharply down (from earlier estimates) to between 9 to 17.6 billion barrels. Azerbaijan’s proven oil reserves are sharply down (from earlier estimates) to between 3.6 to 12.5 billion barrels. Turkmenistan’s natural gas reserves have now been estimated at 98 to 115 trillion cubic feet. According to Energy Information Administration ( emeu/cabs/caspstats.html), "the Caspian Sea region contains proven oil reserves. Comparable to Qatar on the low end and the United States on the high end. In 2002, regional oil production reached roughly 1.6 million barrels per day comparable to South America’s second largest oil producer, Brazil." On the gas side of the equation, the "Caspian Sea Region’s proven natural gas reserves are. Comparable to Saudi Arabia. Regional production reached approximately 4.5 trillion cubic feet in 2001 comparable to the combined production of South America, Central America and Mexico." Apsheron Trend Oil Field: The most direct, the shortest and the least expensive route for Apsheron’s oil to reach the world markets are the Southern Corridor through Iran. The U.S. has, however, vetoed this option. The next best would be the Eastern Corridor into Kazakhstan and then to the Russian Black Sea port of Novorossiysk (using more or less existing pipeline infrastructure). The U.S. isn’t going to allow Russian control over oil either. America’s preferred route for Apsheron’s oil is the Western Corridor through Turkey. The Western Corridor will be 1,038 miles in length and cost $2.9 billion. America, it appears, is willing to foot the bill just to isolate both Iran and Russia. A detailed engineering study of a pipeline from Baku (Azerbaijan) into Tbilisi (Georgia) and on to Turkey’s Mediterranean port of Ceyhan was completed in June 2002. With a planned capacity of 1 million barrels per day the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline is targeted to be operational by early 2005. Caspian Sea oil does not come without its legal entanglements. Prior to 1991, Iran and the Soviet Union were the only countries bordering the Caspian Sea. Iran and the Soviet Union had concluded two bilateral treaties stating, "Caspian resources were to be owned jointly." Technically, Caspian resources now belong to not two but five countries; Iran, the Russian Federation, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan and Kazakhstan (there is no multilateral treaty to that effect). Dauletabad Gas Field: The most direct, the shortest and the least expensive route for Dauletabad’s natural gas to reach India is the Southern Corridor through Afghanistan and Pakistan. Afghanistan is arguably the most volatile of regions and India remains reluctant to rely on Pakistan for her supply of natural gas. China has been looking at opening the Eastern Corridor building a pipeline from Dauletabad to Xinjiang (and an extension even into Japan). That’s some 4,000 miles to cover at a cost of over $10 billion. With existing technology Dauletabad-Xinjiang Pipeline is economically infeasible. Getting gas from Dauletabad through Afghanistan to Pakistan and into India is also riddled with legal hurdles. The very first company that came up with the idea was The Bridas Group, an Argentine company. The Government of Turkmenistan commissioned Bridas to map the geology of a north-south pipeline. In 1995, the Benazir Government also granted construction rights to Bridas. In 1996, Bridas obtained a 30-year concession from the Rabbani Government to build an 875-mile gas pipeline. By that time Unocal, the California based oil giant, had woken up. Unocal hired Henry Kissinger, Robert Oakley (one-time U.S. Ambassador to Pakistan), and Richard Armitage (the current deputy defense secretary) to do its lobbying. Both Benazir of Pakistan and Niyazoy of Turkmenistan were pressurised to break their deal with Bridas (for Unocal’s benefit). Bridas, in return, filed a suit with the International Chamber of Commerce and won. South Pars Gas Field: The potential supplier is Iran and India is the potential consumer. In between the two comes Pakistani territory. Pakistan would want the pipeline to pass through her territory for her to earn a couple of hundred million dollars a year in transit fee. India is not too sure. Can India bypass Pakistan and still get her gas from South Pars? To be certain, more than 80% of the proposed pipeline will be over Iranian territory. To bypass Pakistan will be expensive. To be sure, Iran is by far the biggest looser in the multi-billion dollar pipeline game. Iran’s anti-U.S. stance is costing 69 million Iranians a minimum of a few hundred million dollars a year in transit fees. The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan Pipeline has already isolated Iran. Pakistan and Afghanistan are the next biggest losers. The prerequisite for the Dauletabad-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India Pipeline is a stable Afghanistan. That isn’t about to happen. The South Pars-Pakistan-India Pipeline is, however, ready to go. Only if India can repose trust in her ex-arch rival. Cheers cheers.gif:

Posted by: Peregrine Jun 28 2004, 09:52 AM india.gif The government began talks with Iranian government officials to finalise the deal to buy five million tonne of LNG in return for Tehran giving New Delhi stake in a discovered oilfield. Iranian deputy oil minister Seyed Mohammad Hadi Nejad-Hosseinian, who is leading a 10-member delegation to India, called on petroleum minister Mani Shankar Aiyar before talks began at the official level. After meeting Aiyar, Nejad-Hosseinian told reporters he was hopeful the deal would be finalised by Tuesday but declined to give details. India plans to import five million tonne of LNG from Iran provided its high price is cross-subsidised through a return from a producing oil field. Iran has offered equity in Husseinieh-Khush oil field, but ONGC Videsh (OVL) will have to bid for the share. According to the MoU signed in January 2003, New Delhi is insisting that Iran give OVL the field on nomination basis. After confirming the proposed stake in the oil field, talks on the supply of LNG, sale purchase agreement and pricing will commence at the two-day meeting. Iran has proposed to pay 15% return on OVL investment in developing the field. While OVL would be able to recover its investment cost in about eight to 10 years, India's obligation to buy LNG would last for 25 years. The Iranian side will, therefore, have to provide some incentive/cross-subsidy to India to compensate for this mismatch. While the Iranian Petroleum Minister had last month communicated Tehran's willingness to give 20% share out of their share of 50 % in the field, the National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) stated, if OVL was successful in the bid, it would get 60% while 40% would be offered to a western party. Another Nail in the Coffin of the Wagha Kandle Kissers and the Indian DDM in considering a Pipe Line through Lotastaan pakee.gif as a “Peace Pipe Line” Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Valparaiso Jun 30 2004, 05:50 AM

Hi, there! searching for transport costs from Algerian Hassi R'Mel via export pipelines: GME (Pedro Duran Farrell), Transmed (Enrico Mattei), Medgaz... pls, pls, pls help to find them.

Posted by: Valparaiso Jun 30 2004, 05:52 AM

the costs and capacities of Hassi R'Mel are also of great interest....

Posted by: Peregrine Jul 6 2004, 03:41 PM BHAWALPUR: An explosion damaged Tuesday a gas pipeline in tehsil Uch Sharif of Bahawalpur. According to police sources, the explosion occurred near compression plant number AC4 after which blaze broke out in the pipeline followed by the evacuation of nearby houses. Cause of the blast yet to be investigated. Engineers of Sui Northern Gas pipeline limited were rushed to the site to repair the damaged pipeline. Following the blast supply of gas to power plants of Multan, Kot Addu, Muzaffargarh and Kabirwala were suspended due to the fire. Managing Director of Sui Northern Gas Rashid Loon told that one line was broken apart by the blast and the supply of gas remain continues from rest of the two pipelines without ant interruption. “Mending of the ruptured pipeline will be completed within 24 hours”, he said. The blast might be an act of terrorism, he opined. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Jul 6 2004, 04:05 PM

The blast might be an act of terrorism, he opined.
State terrorism biggrin.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jul 6 2004, 05:25 PM

Some Articles need to be posted in Full – This is one of them : Sitting in the midst of an idyllic tropical forest by a white sandy beach on Koh Samui in Thailand, one can almost forget the ground realities at home and across the globe. But the TV is there and thoughts continue to turn to Pakistan with two contrasting moods dominating: One, anger alongside a deep sorrow, and, two regrets of the most profuse kind. The first mood is brought on by the news one hears here on the electronic media. For instance on the 3rd of July, one was confronted with the BBC’s Asia Today programme on deported Pakistanis from the US. The Pakistani official who was responsible for overseeing their return was clearly upset because of the manner in which the US government insisted these people return: handcuffed and tied to their airplane seats even though the Pakistanis in charge felt no threat from them. Now, most of these deportees are not terrorists or evil minds. They are poor souls who went looking for what they thought would be a better life in the US — given that those who now rule that country were also immigrants and perhaps the families of some were also illegal. In any event, some of the Pakistani deportees overstayed, some forgot to register and some were desperate enough to sustain an illegal status. Whatever their "crime", surely basic human dignity should not be denied them. Clearly, the desire for revenge against all Muslims pervades the US psyche deeply even now — after the trauma of 9/11 — and therefore every petty act of vengeance such as shackling Pakistani deportees on their way home offers some satisfaction for this highly disturbed super power. But that is not the major cause for one’s anger — since one now expects nothing better on that count — given the continuing abuse of all international law and human rights on Guantanamo Bay. No the anger surges forth, especially being so far from home, because country people back home are prepared to accept all this with hardly a protest. Our media barely refers to these deportations — in fact the international media has done more to highlight this issue — and officialdom is seemingly quite uncaring. This was reflected in the Jamali cabinet’s (since one is not updated about the new cabinet on this Island!) Foreign Minister’s remarks, which were also included in the same programme referred to above. He expressed regret, but objected to the use of the term "plane loads of deportees" because he felt that he had met thousands of Pakistanis in the US who were living there happily with no discrimination post-9/11. Perhaps he meets only the affluent migrants but the real issue here is that how many will it take for us to say "enough is enough" and we will not tolerate the inhuman treatment of even one of our citizens. If anyone is guilty of breaking the law, there is a civilised procedure that should be followed. And if Pakistanis have to be deported, they must be allowed to retain their basic human dignity. When will we have the commitment to object to even one of our citizens being mistreated by a foreign government? This is our tragedy and that is why one’s anger is accompanied by sorrow — sorrow not only at the tragedy of these deportees who risked their all for hope of a better life, but also for the nonchalance of the Pakistani nation towards the way Pakistanis are treated by supposed allies. Unless we can care for each and every Pakistani — not just the affluent abroad — we will never coalesce as a strong nation despite our power potential. And we do have that, but we are unable to realise it because we have not developed a passion for Pakistan. Now, coming to the second mood relating to the homeland faraway — that of a profuse regret. Why? Because one is overwhelmed by the manner in which a country like Thailand has made the most of its resources to lure the global tourist to its land. Every inch of the country — and especially the small islands — has been developed while retaining the natural charm so that the place is truly like a global village. The locals clearly have a stake in all this and so they become part of the charm and lure of the land. Local material has been used to build the small villas and hotels — no massive high rises on the islands — and the services and shops are all small, local entities that one sees in our own hill stations, but clean and welcoming. As in Malaysia, the locals retain their heritage and traditions but facilitate the visitors searching for their varied holiday notions. It is, therefore, only natural to feel an intense regret that we in Pakistan have failed miserably on this count, despite our almost limitless natural bounties. With our seacoast and our rich historical plains and our world famous mountain ranges, we have untold wealth but we continue to squander it. We could make it a paradise for the global tourist — who now is not primarily from the US but from countries like Japan and China — but our petty insecurities and penchant for land grabbing make this impossible. For instance, if the locals in and around Gwadar had been allowed to have a stake in its development, who would have objected? Instead, land speculators ensured local unrest. Again, this was the year that we were going to celebrate the first K 2 climb — but the political unrest in the Northern Areas led to the cancellation of many European groups who were coming for this occasion — especially from Italy. Despite an almost total lack of basic tourist comforts, including some places for evening relaxation, our mountains and surrounding valleys continue to attract some tourists — but our law and order situation and our fear of the extremists in our midst continues to undermine our tourism potential. It is amazing how we feel our religious commitment and culture will immediately be under threat if we provide the basic tourist necessities! We really need to visit Malaysia to see how the Islamic identity and commitment of the Malay nations thrives within a heterogeneous and diverse population and a liberal "live and let live" polity. The result is that their country thrives on tourism and our rich and diverse national heritage remains undiscovered by the world. That is one major reason why the world is so ready to accept the misperceptions formulated about Pakistan. After all, tourism is not just valuable in terms of economic rewards; it has a far wider and long term benefit in that it allows the world to understand what Pakistan is truly all about. This has a multiplier effect that continues to expand an understanding of the nation abroad. Also, increasing exposure to the rest of the world with all its diversity allows our own people a greater understanding of the world beyond governments. There are people to cultivate and interact with — and influence, if we are prepared to welcome them. Surely, after over fifty years of existence as an independent Islamic state, we should have enough confidence in ourselves not only to survive global diversity, but also to enrich ourselves with it while bolstering our own national identity. In Thailand we are picking up some understanding of Thai culture and habits and the children are learning about Thailand as a country. Not intensive knowledge but at least a basic awareness. There is an inherent "Thai-ness" in all the tourist resorts amid all the global amenities that are provided. It is up to us to be able to do the same in our country — tourism is one of the most lucrative ways of projecting Pakistan. At the end of it all then perhaps the two moods really merge into one in that what really angers one and makes one feel sorrowful and experience regret is our inability to evolve a national pride and dignity that gives us the confidence to welcome the world in our midst while making it clear to the world that each and every citizen is precious to us as a Pakistani. The views expressed by the writer are her own Added Later : Sorry. Posted on wrong thread. Now cross-posting on the Lotastaani Thread Cheers

Posted by: sridhar k Jul 6 2004, 09:22 PM But we need not worry when there are pakee.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Jul 27 2004, 09:25 AM furious.gif NEW DELHI: Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has said that he has an "open mind" on Iran’s proposal to have a pipeline to supply natural gas to India through Pakistan. Singh conveyed this view to visiting Iranian Foreign Minister Kamal Kharrazi who called on him here on Monday. Expressing Iran’s interest in the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline proposal, Kharrazi hoped that there would be adequate financial and security guarantees for the project. "This matter was discussed and is going to be discussed further and studied further," said spokesman for the external affairs ministry after Kharrazi met Singh. They held wide-ranging talks, while National Security Adviser J N Dixit was also present. Substantial discussions on regional and political development figured during Singh-Kharrazi talks, added a release of the Prime Minister’s office. It said the two sides also discussed the "volatile situation" in Iraq and the "uncertain situation" in Afghanistan. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Jul 30 2004, 05:41 AM Tehran and New Delhi are studying the entire aspects of a supply of Iranian gas to India through an undersea offshore gas pipeline, a press report said Tuesday, citing the Indian Natural Gas Minister. Mani Shankar Aiyar said the two countries were looking into various aspects of the proposal, including different modes of transportation, route options and related political, security, economic and technical issues. The discussions did not include funding aspects, primarily questions about whether Iran would agree to bear 50 percent of the project, the press said. According to the minister, the project will involve laying pipelines in sea water at a depth of about 3,600 meters for a larger part of the route, falling outside Pakistani territory. Asked to comment on the onland gas pipeline option through Pakistan, Aiyar said there were security concerns which had to be addressed to New Delhi's satisfaction. The minister said Pakistan had, from time to time, expressed its support to the project involving the three countries and its willingness to address India's concerns regarding security of supply. © Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Aug 1 2004, 11:26 AM RECORDER REPORT LAWHORE (August 01 2004): The Federal Minister for Petroleum and Natural Resources, Naurez Shakoor, has said that India has agreed to be part of the proposed Pak-Iran gas pipeline project and currently is in process of negotiations with Iran. During recent visit of Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh to Pakistan, the project was discussed with him and he had shown consent to join it, as the project will benefit all the stakeholders, he said while talking to reporters here on Saturday. About the recent raise in gas tariff, the minister said it was in no way a financial burden on people, and added that the increase was just Rs 5 for 100 rupees, which is 'peanut'. However, he pointed out that in case of a big discovery of gas reservoirs in the country, the government might withdraw the raise and pass on the benefit to the consumers. About frequent incidents of attacks on gas pipelines, he said that such incidents happen all over the world; therefore, it should not be an 'unusual phenomenon' in Pakistan. The Government of India Cabinet Ministers must be “Out of their Cotton Picking” Minds to agree to having a Pipe Line though Lotastaan which has Jokers like Naurez Shakoor in its Cabinet of Minsiters. Cheers

Posted by: Valparaiso Aug 2 2004, 10:32 PM

Hi, there! can anybody clear out the situation with iranian lng to come to india?.. blink.gif would be great to dscuss... lmaosmiley.gif the last quote was 2,22$/MMBTU... on FOB

Posted by: Peregrine Aug 3 2004, 06:47 AM

QUOTE (Valparaiso @ Aug 3 2004, 11:02 AM)
Hi, there! can anybody clear out the situation with iranian lng to come to india?.. blink.gif would be great to dscuss... lmaosmiley.gif the last quote was 2,22$/MMBTU... on FOB
Valparaiso : India is still negotiating with Iran on the finalization of the Price. Meantime please help me and advise me the latest costs of Liquefaction of Natural Gas and the Re-Gasification of LNG on a “per MMBTU” Basis though I would find it easier to understand on a “PMT of LNG” Basis. Also any URL to find the Price of Natural Gas ex-well on a “per MMBTU” Cheers

Posted by: Valparaiso Aug 3 2004, 07:42 AM

1MMBTU NG=965.9cft NG=0.00019MT LNG on the last page of Petroleum Agrus' GAS CONNECTIONS there's a table. and: in fact, we calculate liquefaction and regas.costs per mcf or mcm... though worldwide LNG price quotations are mainly per MMBTU of NG... wierd, but it's so... wink.gif liquefaction per mcf: 0.8-1.1 $/mcf (depending on a plant) regas. per mcf = 0.4-0.6 $/mcf (again depending on a plant) d'u have real costs for indian plants (Dabhol & Hazira)? it'll be fine either per MT, or per mcf, or MMBTU (doesn't matter in fact...) rocker.gif what can u tell the internal prices for natural gas for commercial (city gate) in India? and r there any taxes (import duties, whatever) for LNG (or after regasification?.. ). thnx smile.gif

Posted by: Valparaiso Aug 3 2004, 07:47 AM

PROFIS IN LNG! rocker.gif NEEDA ADVISE OF YRS... clap.gif who can advise: rolleyes.gif how much would it cost to build a regas.LNG train for 2, 3, 5 MT per Y: 1. a new one 2. to add a LNG train to the chain? 've seen figures for liquefaction a lot of times, but never for regas... lmaosmiley.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Aug 3 2004, 11:03 AM

Valparaiso : 1. If 1MMBTU NG=965.9cft NG=0.00019MT LNG Then One Metric Tonne of LNG = 5,263.15789……MMBTU say 5,264 MMBTU Thus if price of 1MMBTU NG = USD 2.22 Then the price of 1 MT of LNG will be USD 2.22 X 5,263 = USD11,683.86 Please check and advise if 1MMBTU is actually equal to 0.019 MT LNG. 2. Again if liquefaction per mcf: 0.8-1.1 $/mcf (depending on a plant) and 1MMBTU NG=965.9cft NG then on this basis One Million Cubic Feet of Natural Gas would be equal to 1,035 MMBTU This sounds too low as then the cost of Liquefaction of 1 MMBTU would be US Cents 110/1,035. Similarly if regas. per mcf = 0.4-0.6 $/mcf (again depending on a plant) then we would be again having a very low figure. Please check if these costs are per Million cubic Feet of Gas or per MMBTU Alternative please correct my calculation. Thanks in advance

d'u have real costs for indian plants (Dabhol & Hazira)? it'll be fine either per MT, or per mcf, or MMBTU (doesn't matter in fact...) rocker.gif what can u tell the internal prices for natural gas for commercial (city gate) in India? and r there any taxes (import duties, whatever) for LNG (or after regasification?.. ).
Sorry know nothing about plant costs and can only look to you for guidance. Cheers

Posted by: Valparaiso Aug 4 2004, 03:54 AM

QUOTE (Peregrine @ Aug 3 2004, 11:33 PM)
Valparaiso : 1. If 1MMBTU NG=965.9cft NG=0.00019MT LNG Then One Metric Tonne of LNG = 5,263.15789……MMBTU say 5,264 MMBTU Thus if price of 1MMBTU NG = USD 2.22 Then the price of 1 MT of LNG will be USD 2.22 X 5,263 = USD11,683.86 Please check and advise if 1MMBTU is actually equal to 0.019 MT LNG.
1MT = 51,932,370 BTU = 51.9MMBTU then the price per 1MT = 116 $ sounds good... as simple as that... clap.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Aug 16 2004, 03:34 PM clap.gif A Muridke gas pipeline was blown up Monday evening, disrupting supply to industrial units of Kala Shah Kaku, reported Geo Television. Talking to the channel, SNGPL Managing Director Rashid Lone said “The gas pipeline running from Lahore to Gujranwala via Muridke was ruptured after a terrorist attack.” He said the incident has not affected gas supply to the cities though. “Some industrial units in Kala Shah Kaku have been affected but our teams have reached Muridke to repair the pipeline and hopefully, the gas supply would be fixed by morning,” he added. APP adds: Three persons, including two police officials, were injured in two consecutive, powerful blasts at the main railway track near Nawabshah Railway Station, Monday evening. According to railway and police sources, two consecutive blasts rocked the railway track and two track pieces measuring 1.5 feet each were blown off by the impact at about 2 kilometer from the railway station. specool.gif The first blast occurred on up-track at 8:16 pm, where a Kotri-Paideedan passenger train was arriving, but was signaled to stop a few hundred meters near the first blast. The second blast occurred at the down track near the first blast site at 8:55 pm. Two police officials were severely injured as they approached the first blast site, when the second bomb went off. As a result, DSP Gul Mohammad Phul sustained multiple injuries, while Police Constable Nasir Hussain lost both legs. The third victim of the blast was a local newspaper reporter Azizul Hassan. He was also injured seriously. thumbup.gif DPO Nawabshah Dr. Ghulam Sarwar Jamali told APP that both the blasts aimed at targeting Lahore-bound Karakorram Express which crossed the blast site 20-minutes earlier and the passenger train which was signaled to halt after the first blast. The third train, heading for Kotri was stopped at Nawabshah Station. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Aug 18 2004, 04:37 AM ISLAMAWORST, Aug 16: The eighth meeting of the steering committee of Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan is meeting here in mid-September to consider a report on provision of "international security through a third party" for the proposed $3 billion gas pipeline project. "It is being proposed that the security of the 1,700- kilometre gas pipeline should be contracted out a third party and this is how all the three countries can facilitate the early lying of this huge pipeline," said Marshuk Ali Shah, ADB's senior resident representative. Talking to Dawn here on Monday, he said that the committee would discuss a number of issues which have been finalized to take up the gas pipeline project as early as possible. For example, he said, the feasibility study was now ready along with the country framework programme and the study on the pipeline's security. "On top of it, the report on the most critical question relating to gas reserves estimates for Daulatabad gasfield in Turkmenistan will be ready before the meeting," he added. He said these reports would be discussed in the meeting to ensure that these gas reserves should be sufficient for at least 30 years to cater to the requirements of Pakistan and the western areas of India. "And this matter needs full certification". Mr Shah said that it was being ensured that Pakistan developed four months' capacity to eliminate the possibility of gas shortage besides ensuring that there was no disruption of supply to consumers, including those in India in any crisis situation. He said that India had been seeking assurances from Pakistan government about the pipeline's security, adding: "I am glad that Pakistani authorities have reacted positively and they are forthcoming to assure India about the safety and security of the gas pipeline". ADB's local chief said that the most vulnerable area was that of Afghanistan for which Kabul was expected to provide necessary security. Pakistan had earlier invited international energy firms to participate in the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan gas pipeline project as sponsors and contractors, following firm assurance from Ashkabad that its Daulatabad gas field would remain dedicated to the project. The ADB was expected to formally reinitiate the expressions of interest for the project after the next steering committee meeting scheduled. Pakistan has set up an independent company that is named IGCL and owned by Pakistan's two gas utilities, to look after all matters relating to gas import projects. The parties to the project have already agreed to the Southern route for the project that starts from Daulatabad to Herat-Kandahar-Quetta and Multan. The ADB had indicated recently to develop a mega project of gas pipeline network in South-Asia involving Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan, Iran and India that could involve all the three gas options Pakistan was currently keeping open. India currently requires 5-6 billion cubic feet per day of gas and the market would be growing even further. Turkmenistan has been indicating that Daulatabad field had total reserves of 45 TCF of which remaining recoverable reserves stood at 23 TCF. If the storage of gas for stoppages-disruptions of Fourth Months is envisaged then Lotastaan will have to have a storage capacity of Billions and Billions of Cubic Feet of Natural Gas which I think is an impossible task. They could convert it to LNG but then the cost and eventual storage of Millions of Tonnes of LNG would be mind boggling. Better for India to Import LNG from Qatar and Iran. Peace

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 3 2004, 03:24 PM NEW DELHI(AFP) - India and Pakistan will discuss the safety of a proposed 3.5 billion pipeline designed to transfer gas from Iran to India through Pakistan, officials said Wednesday. Indian Oil Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar will meet Pakistani Foreign Minister Khursheed Mehmood Kasuri over lunch on Monday during his three-day visit to New Delhi. "If our security concerns are adequately addressed, this project could turn out to be the economic bedrock which could buttress many more economic cooperation proposals," said an Indian foreign ministry official. "The economic gains for Pakistan estimated at 600 to 800 million dollars annually in transit fee alone are a reasonable guarantee against sabotage," the official added.*** Negotiations on the 1,600-kilometer (1,000-mile) pipeline began in 1994 but no headway was made due to tensions between Pakistan and India and the project's massive cost. ***The Pipe Line being shut off for One Month would cause Lotastaan a loss of USD 50 Million in transit dues but could cost India a loss of up to Five per cent of her GDP, which in 2010 could amount to say USD 50 Billion. Thus Lotastaan will do the obvious but our Indian Babus and Leaders refuse to see the realities. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 9 2004, 02:50 AM ISLAMABAD, Sept 8: Pakistan said on Wednesday that India "appeared serious" on the proposed laying of gas pipeline from Iran via Pakistan. Foreign Office spokesman Masood Khan told Iran's IRNA news agency here that India seemed serious in launching the three- nation gas pipeline project. The spokesman reiterated Islamabad's stance to provide security for the pipeline, which could not be realized due to the tension between the two countries. –PPI Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 9 2004, 08:06 AM

Coal-fired electricity Coal is costly, but coming back into favour—and cleaner MORE of the world's electric power comes from coal than from oil and gas together: a third of Britain's, half of Germany's or America's, three-quarters of India's or China's. And the fuel has one huge advantage: it does not come from the Middle East. But, thanks not least to China's rapid economic growth, the price of coal has doubled since January. No wonder the governments of coal-rich countries are content, the firms that dig it up are rubbing their hands, while the users are looking hard for more efficient ways of burning the stuff. On the supply side, prospects have been transformed. Analysts foresee America's biggest coal-miner, Peabody Energy, trebling its profits between the first quarter of this year and the last. Europe's biggest miner, Poland's state-backed Kompania Weglowa, with 79,000 employees, was losing nearly $30m a month early last year; it is now making a monthly profit of $10m. Giant shippers such as Australia-based BHP Billiton and Xstrata, exporting from Australia and South Africa, have reported surging profits. China's big state-owned Shenhua group may sell some of its equity. Even in Britain, which once mined 280m tonnes of coal a year and now digs one-tenth of that, the main operator, UK Coal, can imagine a future for what until recently seemed to be a dying industry. Britain's Coal Authority and America's Energy Information Administration provide resources on the industry. Users agree. American power companies are returning to coal. But everywhere there is one huge problem: the environment. Even the much-denounced Chinese in fact know that they must clean up power generation, and have begun to do so. The rules in western countries are tight. Getting permission for a coal-fired plant can take years. In 2000, only two such were planned in all of America. Today, there are dreams for nearly 100—but only a half-dozen are actually being built. Yet coal need not be a filthy fuel. Apart from “scrubbing” emissions, modern combustion techniques can clean them before they start—and use less coal too. A century ago, power plants produced maybe 5% of what their coal could, in theory, deliver; today, about 35%. Pulverising the coal can make this 40-45% (unless it is moist, “sub-bituminous” coal, and Japanese scientists are working on that). With a high-temperature burn, over 50% may be possible. Less coal burned, fewer nasty emissions; an American version of this, given the go-ahead in 2000 but not yet built, would have cut some of them too. “Fluidised-bed” combustion—coal is burned on a bed of particles suspended in flowing air—also can exceed 40%, and prevent or capture most of the emissions as well. Developed since the 1960s, it is widely used. Bolder techniques lie ahead. Coal can be burned with oxygen instead of air. It can be gasified (even, perhaps, in situ), the gas going to power a gas turbine, surplus heat to make steam for a conventional one; a big American generator, AEP, this week said it is to build such a plant. Noxious emissions can thereby be greatly reduced; even to zero, claims a California firm working on one version. America's Department of Energy is working on a hybrid of gasification and combustion. There is a mass of research into such ideas, much of it, as in Canada and Australia, powered by a joint get-together of the big coal-users and government. Will it pay? And how soon? Much depends, now, on legislation. The Netherlands subsidises zero-emission electricity; Norway heavily taxes carbon-dioxide emissions. But Britain's subsidy for “renewable-source” electricity does not (to the distress of those who would profit) go to coal, however virtuously used. American state laws tend to punish emissions—to the point where some plants sit idle for most of the time—but not to reward the virtuous. So the incentives to speed ahead differ. But within 15 years, new coal plants could be as clean as any others, and just as profitable. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Viren Sep 9 2004, 08:19 AM

Peregrine, Someone mentioned that Uncoal had Chevron name one of it's oil tankers as "USS Condoleezza Rice" - know or heard anything about it?

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 9 2004, 09:42 AM

QUOTE (Viren @ Sep 9 2004, 08:49 PM)
Peregrine, Someone mentioned that Uncoal had Chevron name one of it's oil tankers as "USS Condoleezza Rice" - know or heard anything about it?
Viren, Condoleezza Rice agreed but her Naval Advisor stated that if the Vessel performed at lower speeds than the Captain of the Ship on being queried might reply : Speed Reduced as "Condoleezza Rice" Bottom Badly Fouled The Lady hastily withdrew. P. S. : Only US Naval ships can have the term "USS" prefixed to their name. A commercial Oil Tanker would be named "Condoleezza Rice" with the term ST or MT or NT prefixed depending on the mode of Propulsion. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Viren Sep 9 2004, 11:08 AM

Sorry it should have been SS Condoleezza Rice. Check

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 10 2004, 04:48 AM

QUOTE (Viren @ Sep 9 2004, 11:38 PM)
Sorry it should have been SS Condoleezza Rice. Check
Viren, Chevron merged with Texaco and became ChevronTexaco. The Good Ship SS Condoleezza Rice is not listed in the latest Lloyd’s Publications - possibly the vessel has been sold and/or renamed. Will keep “searching” and let you know if I get further news. P. S. In the past Chevron usually named its Tankers after "retired" Directors. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 13 2004, 02:04 PM

pakee.gif ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 13 2004, 03:23 PM


The Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, said his Government had charted out a vision to transform the State into a role model in `good governance' with people's participation. The Government had drawn up a plan for development of knowledge, human resource development, conservation of water and energy resources and security from disasters, anti-social and anti-national activities. With the discovery of 120 million tonnes of new reserves of oil and gas and with the commissioning of two LNG terminals in the State, Gujarat was on its way to becoming the petro-capital of the country. The party president, M. Venkaiah Naidu, regretted that developmental activities in the State were not being highlighted and the focus of many continued to be on the ``unfortunate'' riots three years ago. The former Prime Minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, and the Opposition leader, L.K. Advani, were present at the conference.

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 14 2004, 05:51 AM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Sep 14 2004, 02:34 AM)
pakee.gif ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif
rajesh_g : All Lotastaan’s “blathering, blithering & blundering buffoonery” is of no use. It is the traitors within the Indian establishment that - for some reason that I cannot fathom - are bent upon having an Iran-India Pipe Line traverse Lotastaan. In this respect I find the "statement" of of Dr. R. K. Pachauri, Director-General of TERI, in the Article furious.gif frustrating – to say the least :
Dr Rajendra K Pachauri, Director General of The Energy and Resources Institute (formerly Tata Energy Research Institute) and who has been pushing for a pipeline, said he expected a favourable decision soon. He admitted that there were many apprehensions, but said most had been met. "The biggest concern is what if Pakistan turns off the spigot. But we have got the Iranians to agree that they will only be paid for the gas that India receives, not for what it pumps. So it will be in Tehran's interest to ensure that Pakistan does not disrupt the line," he said.
Of what use is the Assurance that India will not have to pay for Natural Gas which has not been supplied anyway. What about the consequences to the Indian Industrial and Domestic users of Natural Gas. Dr. Bhasker Dasgupta has stated that India would end up losing at least 5% of her GDP i.e. USD 50 Billion (The Pipe Line will be ready in 2010 when India’s GDP should reach USD One Trillion) in cse of a few weeks stoppage. Who would compensate India for such a Huge Loss?
India's ministry of external affairs and ministry of defence are chary of a pipeline through Pakistan, fearing it will give Pakistan a massive leverage over India and prefer the option of a submarine pipeline through the Arabian Sea. But such a pipeline is extremely expensive, so much so as to put a question mark on the sheer viability of the project.
This project was feasible in 1992-1993. It is even more so feasible, pertinent and imperative that the Deep Sea Pipe Line be constructed especially since over an year ago the BLUESTREAM Pipe Line in depths of over 2000 Metres was put “ON-LINE”
It has been estimated that a 2,500-kilometre pipeline from Iran to northwest India will cost about Rs 300 crore (Rs 3 billion); an undersea pipeline could cost almost 10 times as much!
1. Land Pipe Line : From the following Article you will find that the cost of the Iran-Lotastaan-India Pipe Line is USD 4.1 Billion : In this case Transit Dues of USD 600-800 Million will have to be paid annually. 2. The cost of the Deep Sea Pipe Line is about USD 6 Billion or so and this pipeline would serve both the Qatari ( North Western ) and Iranian ( South Pars ) Natural Gas Fields as both are adjacent to each other. I believe this cost includes the building of reasonably short spurs to UAE and Oman. In addition with incurring reasonable costs the spurs from Yemen and Saudi Arabia could be added. In 1992-1993 a Pipeline of 24” inner diameter was proposed. Now technology would permit a 48” diameter Pipe Line at a very reasonable cost increase with the CAPACITY INCREASE OF FOUR TIMES the smaller Pipe Line. The initial plan was to have 2 X 24” Pipe Lines –same as the Pipe Line through Lotastaan – which would supply Two Billion Cu. Ft. of Natural Gas per Day. Now ONE 36” Pipe Line should supply about 2.25 Billion Cu. Ft. per day. ONE 48” Pipe Line should supply about 4 Billion Cu. Ft. per day. The reason for the cost differential being only 50% (or even 100% at most) is that once the Land Pipe Line Building Agreement is signed every Politician, Bureaucrat, Military Leader an their brothers and kith as well as kin will buy the land through which the Pipe Line is traversing. The Pipe Line building Group will have to pay through the nose for acquiring the “Lease” for the Pipe Line to pass. Please refer to the “SCAM” in Kashmir for the Indian Railways-Government buying land to lay the Jammu-Baramula Railway Track and Stations etc. en route. If you live in the USA try and read about the New Orleans – Gulf Outlet Canal where the Politicians acquired the land through which the Canal was to be built and became Millionaires many times over. The biggest joke is that the Canal is of 36 feet depth whereas the Mississippi River is over 40 feet Deep over the “Bars” at the River Mouth. In case of building the Deep Sea Pipe Line there is no cost of “Land” or the Annual Transit Charges. Various readers of Dr. Pachauri’s comments in the Article “A Pipeline through Lotastaan” have written to him but the man refuses to address the issue. The second part of his statement that the Deep Sea Pipe Line would cost TEN TIMES AS MUCH as a Land Pipe Line is even more damaging. Time for Building the Pipe Line : About 3 to 4 Years in case of the Land Pipe Line. In case of the “Deep Sea” Pipe Line : The Pipe Line Laying Ships lay up to Five Kilometres per Day. NOTE : A Natural Gas supply of Two Billion Cu. Ft. per Day is equal to about 15 Million Tons of LNG Annually i.e. about 250 Shipments per Year. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 14 2004, 08:46 AM,,171-1260879,00.html LARGE deposits of natural gas may exist at depths many times greater than those of today’s wells, US scientists say. Research has indicated that methane and other hydrocarbons can be formed from inorganic material under conditions present in the Earth’s mantle, 12 to 37 miles beneath the surface. The findings suggest that the world’s reserves of hydrocarbons may be much greater than is generally thought, though the difficulty and expense of extracting them from such great depths may preclude their use. The study also overturns the view that methane and petroleum are formed in large quantities only from the decaying bodies of once-living organisms. Russell Hemley, of the Carnegie Institution in Washington, who led the research, said: “These experiments point to the possibility of an inorganic source of hydrocarbons at great depth in the Earth — that is, hydrocarbons that come from simple reactions between water and rock and not just from the decomposition of living organisms.” Temperatures and pressures are so great in the mantle that matter behaves differently, leading some experts to suggest that methane might form from inorganic material. In the study, details of which are published today in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Dr Hemley’s team attempted to recreate the conditions of the mantle in the laboratory. They squeezed iron oxide, calcium carbonate and water to pressures between 50,000 and 110,000 times greater than those at sea level, and heated the sample to temperatures of up to 1,500C (2,700F). Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 14 2004, 09:11 AM

NOTE : A Natural Gas supply of Two Billion Cu. Ft. per Day is equal to about 15 Million Tons of LNG Annually i.e. about 250 Shipments per Year.
Praaji, Layman type questions : 1. Why dont we just stick with shipments ? 2. The other link that mentions natural gas finds of 120 million tonnes - how significant is it ? TIA cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 14 2004, 11:49 AM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Sep 14 2004, 09:41 PM)
Layman type questions : 1. Why dont we just stick with shipments ?
rajesh_g : Saheb Ji – Layman Type Answers (I am not from the Petroleum Industry) Firstly I believe the landed cost of LNG at Dahej Terminal converted to Natural Gas works out to about USD 3.8 per MMBTU. Last Year when the Iranian President was at the Republic Day Celebration he made a statement that the landed cost of Natural Gas via a Pipe Line through Lotastaan would work out at USD 1.81 per MMBTU at the Indian Border. I find this to be rather low as the Transit dues of USD 600 Million annually work out to about USD 0.80 (US Cents Eighty) per MMBTU. Add to this the Depreciation of the Initial cost of USD 4.16 Billion and the cost of Maintaining the Pipe Line + Providing Security & Safety + Cost of Insurance Premium of the Pipe Line and its Contents ( Rough Calculations Guide : 48,700 Cu. Ft. Natural Gas = One Metric Ton LNG = 52 MMBTU). Please note that according to friends at Lloyds’ the Premium for a Land Pipe Line through Lotastaan would be a couple of times the Premium of a Deep Sea Pipe Line. I believe that the Deep Sea Pipeline would deliver Natural Gas at the point of landing in India at USD 3 per MMBTU.
2. The other link that mentions natural gas finds of 120 million tonnes - how significant is it ?
The Article says With the discovery of 120 million tonnes of new reserves of oil and gas Of this may be One Third is recoverable. I am not sure as I have no expertise in “Exploration”. In any case this is no big deal as India Consumes over 100 Million Tons of Oil annually of which 70% is imported To sum up IMHO India should have a Deep Sea Pipe Line from Qatar-Iran to India and have a sizable Fleet of LNG Carriers as well as 7-10 LNG Receiving Terminals so that India can source LNG from Australia, Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, Angola, Nigeria and other sources in Africa and South America. In addition it should keep on importing 15 to 20 Million Tonnes of LNG from Qatar and Iran. India should stay away from Lotastaan and Bhookhanangadesh not only for Transit of Pipe Lines but also for Bhookhanangadesh’s Natural Gas Cheers

Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 14 2004, 12:30 PM

Praaji.. rock.gif I agree, let the faithful alone with their goats and pigs..

Posted by: Viren Sep 14 2004, 01:00 PM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Sep 14 2004, 03:30 PM)
Praaji.. rock.gif I agree, let the faithful alone with their goats and pigs..
Yeah..tough luck. Our Honorable(?) Petroleum minister Mani Shankar Aiyar dosen't agree with you dry.gif
Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar has hosted a private lunch for Pakistan Foreign Minister Khursheed Mehmood Kasuri on Monday. Sources said both leaders may agree to form a working group of experts to look into the security issue of 2775-km gas pipeline. Almost 760-km of the pipeline will pass through Pakistan. Pakistan is expected to get $600 to $800 million annually in transit fees alone. Mani Shankar Iyer, himself a former career diplomat had been an ardent supporter of this pipeline.

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 14 2004, 01:59 PM

QUOTE (Viren @ Sep 15 2004, 01:30 AM)
Yeah..tough luck. Our Honorable(?) Petroleum minister Mani Shankar Aiyar dosen't agree with you dry.gif
Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar has hosted a private lunch for Pakistan Foreign Minister Khursheed Mehmood Kasuri on Monday. Sources said both leaders may agree to form a working group of experts to look into the security issue of 2775-km gas pipeline. Almost 760-km of the pipeline will pass through Pakistan. Pakistan is expected to get $600 to $800 million annually in transit fees alone. Mani Shankar Iyer, himself a former career diplomat had been an ardent supporter of this pipeline.
Viren : Mani Shanker Aiyer’s penchant for the Iran-India Natural Gas Pipe Line reminds me of the old saying FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD It is a fact that MSA is an ardent supporter of Chinese Communism and it does seam that his “strings” are pulled from Beijing. As such it may be that the leftists in India are being influenced by China to allow the Pipe Line to traverse Lotastaan so that India’s “Short and Curlies” will not only be under the Direct Lotastaani Heel but also under the Indirect Chinese Heel. May sound outrageous but not impossible. Again the media makes the outrageous statement The previous NDA government had even considered laying the pipeline under the sea to avoid Pakistani territory. But, experts calculated that costs were going six or seven times higher that of the land route, expensive enough at an estimated $4 billion. as written by Mr. I. Gilani. This is the outcome of Dr. Pachauri – Director General of TERI – stating that the Deep Sea Pipe Line would cost TEN TIMES the Land Pipe Line. Cheers

Posted by: Viren Sep 15 2004, 08:34 AM

Peregrine, About 42 years ago, Mani Shankar was in the same Cambridge college with the Paki FM - Kachori (his own words in So if Kachori has any goods on this scoundrel's communists activities in UK (as it has been alleged by Dhiren Bhagat and others) while rest of the nation was donating jewels and blankets to support our troops against China, his 'short and curlies' might be under the Direct Lotastaani Heel too - could explain his 'ardent support' to the pipeline.

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 15 2004, 11:46 AM

Viren : Signore M. A. Fia and C. Osa Nostra believe Snam Progetti wants the Iran-India Pipeline to be built as a Land Pipe Line via Lotastaan. In case a Deep Sea Pipe Line is opted for then Snam Progetti – who have one Pipe Laying vessel suitable to lay the Deep Sea Pipe Line – will lose out to the competition who have TWO Pipe Laying Vessels suitable to lay the Deep Sea Pipe Line. If Mango Societe Anonyme has been entertained in Pani Puri’s rear garden of delights then so be it. However at the end of the day the Final Decision seemingly will be made by Signore M. A. Fia and C. Osa Nostra. Cheers

Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 16 2004, 07:57 PM Interesting article. Can India take the fuel cell route ? Some time ago I had read a few articles on this technology (Distributed power and all) and looked really promising. Have lost track of it.. blink.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 17 2004, 12:33 PM

MUMBAI - One fallout of this year's general elections in India was the sudden realization of a need for "pro-poor policies" as the previous National Democratic Alliance government seemed to have been done in by its elitist emphasis on things like liberalization and foreign investment, while ignoring the basic needs of common Indians. The new dispensation lost no time in launching a slew of "pro-poor" measures without bothering to analyze whether the exchequer would be able to bear this profligacy. Power was one area that was believed to have cost the previous government dearly. In states reeling under drought, farmers were in deep debt, their plight exacerbated by their failure to work their pumps because of the restrictive power prices. And when it was time to vote, they gave their governments a piece of their mind. The election result was thus construed by many as a mandate for free power. So some states, notably Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu, promptly declared free power to farmers. Going by experience, the only thing this hasty policy decision will result in is a further setback to power-sector reforms in India. The basic problem faced by the Indian power sector continues to be the gap between user charges and the cost of supply. Despite reform efforts, the gap between cost of supply and average tariffs has worsened over time. The deficit per unit of power supplied stood at 23 paise (0.5032 US cent) in 1993, which went up to 110 paise per unit by 2002. The Planning Commission estimates that the hidden gross subsidy provided to the agriculture and domestic sectors increased from Rs74.49 billion (US$1.6 billion) in 1991-92 to Rs345.87 billion in 2001-02. But this is not the real subsidy either. Had the high transmission and distribution (T&D) losses not been camouflaged for electricity consumption in the agricultural sector, the subsidy would be even higher. The agricultural sector remains the most subsidized. As per data provided by the Planning Commission, the average tariff for the sector increased from a mere 21.20 paise/unit in 1995-96 to 41.54 paise/unit in 2001-02, while the actual cost of power increased from 215.60 paise/unit to 349.85 paise/unit during this period. Not surprisingly, the subsidy for agricultural consumers increased from Rs155.85 billion to Rs304.62 billion during the period. As the subsidy jacks up the gap between cost and recovery, the State Electricity Boards (SEBs) remain at the receiving end, with their state governments defaulting on the dues. Data for 2001-02 and 2002-03 on 16 states show a substantial gap of about Rs60 billion to Rs70 billion in the subsidies due and received by state power utilities during the period. To fulfill their political and social commitments, many state governments have asked power utilities to supply free or subsidized power to agricultural consumers. While they were promised compensation, official figures show over 50% of the subsidy due to these state power utilities remain unpaid. While the amount of subsidy due to the SEBs for 2001-02 and 2002-03 were Rs145.12 billion and Rs127.19 billion, the actual amount received by them were only Rs91.71 billion and Rs59.19 billion. Surely, state governments have the freedom to subsidize power for a class of consumers. But political exigencies made these governments throw all caution to the wind. Tamil Nadu, for example, has been supplying free electricity to agricultural consumers as well as subsidizing tariff rates for other consumers. There is a big gap in the subsidy due and received by its power utilities - of Rs22.12 billion during 2002-03. Not a single rupee of this was reimbursed to the utilities. Similarly, Haryana, Karnataka, Madhya Pradesh, Punjab, Uttar Pradesh and West Bengal have also been defaulting in sanctioning funds to their power utilities. Not surprisingly, the losses of the SEBs have been mounting. They are in terrible financial health, plagued with problems of irrational tariff structures (leading to mounting subsidies), high T&D losses, large outstanding dues to central power utilities and not enough investment for their modernization. These problems result in power shortages, supply of poor-quality power to customers and an erosion of their financial viability as their overall rate of return goes into free fall. Surely, this goes against the grain of reforms. The provisions on subsidy in the Electricity Act 2003 seek to balance states' social obligations as well as the commercial interests of utilities. Section 65 of the act empowers states to grant subsidies to any consumer in the tariff determined by the state commission. However, to ensure the commercial viability of the business, it also clarifies that while state governments have the right to grant subsidies to a class of consumers, the utilities will be compensated from the respective state funds. Electricity in India has evidently been considered more of a social service than a business. Prices do not reflect costs and state institutions are dependent on allocations from the public budget, stretching the demand on public funds beyond capacity. This also impedes the development of private capital markets, the only real alternative to continued government funding. Unfortunately, the more India tries to change things, the more they remain the same. As long as the states continue to go their profligate ways, power-sector reform will under no circumstances be able to deliver, as the poor health of the SEBs will have a domino effect on the entire sector. States should find other means of subsidizing the poor rather than providing them free or grossly subsidized power. Tariff reform, as well as a determined effort to insulate SEBs from populist measures, is an absolute imperative to nurse the SEBs back to health. Otherwise, the muddle that is the Indian power sector will continue to haunt the economy. Kunal Kumar Kundu is a senior economist with a leading bilateral Chamber of Commerce in India. He has a Masters in Economics with specialization in econometrics from the University of Calcutta

Posted by: Mudy Sep 17 2004, 02:03 PM

Power problem can't be solved till these politicians gets special privilege. First put them also in common public power grid than only they will take initiative. Building power plants are always political decision. There is no long or short term planning based on necessity. Subsidy and theft are other major problem but politican are so scared to take action. There is no will is left. Farmers and public only show there anger on ballot but they can force politician to take action beforehand. After election problem remain same and it is passed for next 5 years. Public should come out with solution before going to ballot.

Posted by: Viren Sep 17 2004, 02:52 PM

The Oil Minister said on Friday he was close to finalising a deal to buy liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Iran in return for investments in oil and gas projects in the oil-rich country. Vienna/New Delhi, September 17: The Oil Minister said on Friday he was close to finalising a deal to buy liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Iran in return for investments in oil and gas projects in the oil-rich country. "We are close to it. We are in discussion with Iran on a package of measures in the hydrocarbon sector," Mani Shankar Aiyar told Reuters in Vienna. "Things have been progressing fairly far forward in two intensive rounds of negotiations. The most difficult session is still to take place," he said. Aiyar and his Iranian counterpart, Bijan Zanganeh, held talks in Vienna, where he is attending an OPEC seminar, and "virtually finalised" the agreement, which they had been negotiating for the last 18 months, Aiyar said in a statement issued in New Delhi "The conclusions range across Indian participation in three Iranian oilfields and joint exploration of gas fields, long-term purchases of LNG, revamping of refineries at Tehran and Tabriz, tankage, engineering and design," the statement said. Other areas of cooperation included investments in petrochemical projects in both countries, he said. Aiyar told reporters in New Delhi in a teleconference from Vienna he had not held detailed discussions on another proposal to build a natural gas pipeline from Iran to India via Pakistan. India has been lukewarm about importing gas via Pakistan and has opted for (LNG) imports because it fears such a pipeline could be held hostage to its long-running tensions with Pakistan. "The pipeline is not on the back-burner but it has taken the second order of priority," he said. Aiyar also met the oil minister of Norway and agreed to expand cooperation in deep-sea drilling. India's state-run energy firms have been seeking stakes in foreign oil and gas projects as domestic crude output is declining and consumption of refined products is rising. The country imports 70 per cent of its crude oil requirement

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 19 2004, 02:09 AM NEW DELHI: You could call it yet another import barrier for LNG, the alternative fuel for the power fertiliser and petrochemical industry. The shipping ministry has put LNG players in the dock with a notification which makes it mandatory to import LNG on Indian ships alone. According to the latest notification issued by the DG shipping after the government introduced the tonnage tax, a licence shall be granted for a chartered LNG vessel only if the LNG ship is an Indian flag vessel and when at least 26% of the equity of the shipping company owning the vessel is held by an Indian partner. This has landed front runner players like Shell in a major spot as the company has been planning to buy spot cargoes instead of going in for a long term contract. For Petronet LNG, which has a long term contract, this policy would create problems for its expanded capacity. For instance, Petronet will be unable to offer its surplus capacity to independent companies for re-gasification of LNG, as not many firms can afford to own a ship. Currently, there are only two LNG vessels plying to India for Petronet’s Dahej regassification plant. Although, state-run SCI has a 29% stake in the shipping company owning the two LNG vessels, it is still operating on a Malta flag. These shipping companies will have to register in India in five years’ time by when these vessels should ply as Indian flag vessels. The shipping ministry has argued that this policy has been put in place to promote Indian tonnage and LNG tonnage in particular. Since the implications of the tonnage tax would bring down the tax incidence, most shipping companies would want to opt for this levy to optimise cost efficiency. However, the recent notification may prove to be a major hurdle for Indian LNG companies who are trying to make the fuel as competitive as possible. A bit ambitious as each LNG Tanker, used on the PG-India Trade, costs about USD 160 Million. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 22 2004, 01:28 AM NEW DELHI, Sept 21: The oil ministers of India and Pakistan will meet before the end of the year to discuss the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project, United News of India said on Tuesday. The news agency quoted unidentified officials travelling with Prime Minister Mamohan Singh to New York that India would also push its proposal to export diesel to Pakistan by a proposed pipeline. The sources said the exact date and venue of the meeting would be finalised soon in consultation through diplomatic channels. The decision to hold the meeting was taken during the visit to New Delhi by Foreign Minister Khurshid M. Kasuri. Indian Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar, who knows Mr Kasuri from his Cambridge days, also met the Pakistani minister. The two countries have been discussing the 3.5-billion-dollar pipeline, designed to transfer gas from Iran to India through Pakistan, since 1994. However, progress has not been possible due to recurring tension between the two countries. Despite Pakistan's promise of providing full security to the proposed 1,600-kilometre pipeline, India has been wary of Islamabad's attitude, UNI said. It said New Delhi feared that Pakistan might turn off the gas supply tap as and when tension increased between the two countries. "If our security concerns are adequately addressed, this project could turn out to be the economic bedrock which could buttress many more economic cooperation proposals," the agency quoted the official sources as saying. "The economic gains for Pakistan estimated between $600 million and $800 million annually in transit fee alone are a reasonable guarantee against sabotage." The sources said warming ties between India and Pakistan augured well for the project. For Iran, which holds the world's largest gas reserves after Russia, the Indian market is as important as the European market, which it hopes to serve one day through a pipeline across Turkey. India is a large importer of energy products, purchasing nearly 70 per cent of its annual requirements. Iran and Qatar both have nearly identical Natural Gas Reserves around 900 TCF. The Indian Leaders-Bureaucrats are rather Naïve in thinking that a supply of Diesel Oil to Lotastaan will ensure an Uninterrupted Natural Gas supply via the Land Pipe Line through Lotastaan. In fact it will give Lotastaan another “Hammer” to beat India with. Diesel Oil can easily be transported by Sea and Oil Tankers for such Parcels are always available (of course the sea freights might go up by 10-20 per cent). However, if the Natural Gas Supply is hampered, interrupted, stopped for a period of say Four Weeks then India will not be able to get LNG as the LNG Manufacturing and Transportation are already programmed for up to 25 Years. India should Import as much as possible via the LNG Route and then go for a Deep Sea Pipe Line which has spurs to Iran, Qatar, UAE, Saudi Arabia and possibly Yemen so that India is not held hostage to One Country’s supply only. A reasonable LNG Fleet can also ensure that LNG could be procured from other sources if a particular sources starts acting funny. India is in the driving seat as the Natural Gas “Nations” have to sell their Gas and there are very few countries that can justify the Import of LNG. There is a Huge Glut of Natural Gas - LNG for the foreseeable future. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 24 2004, 11:23 AM

INDIAN LEADERS INDIVIDUALLY TRYING TO OUT-DO KALIDAS furious.gif NEW YORK: The prospect of a mutually beneficial gas pipeline through Pakistan to India has supplanted the hot air of bilateral bickering between two countries. The landmark economic breakthrough was announced in a joint statement following an hour-long meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistan's military ruler Pervez Musharraf here on Friday. "It was felt that such a project could contribute to the welfare and prosperity of the people of both countries and should be considered in the larger context of expanding trade and economic relations between India and Pakistan," the statement, read out by Gen.Musharraf at a chaotic photo-op, said. The brief statement highlighted the need for enhancing confidence building measures and trade, a distinctly Indian emphasis, instead of focussing on Pakistan's pet peeve of Kashmir. In that sense, it appeared to have the imprimatur of India's economist-prime minister. However, the two leaders also addressed the issue of Jammu and Kashmir and "agreed that possible options for a peaceful negotiated settlement should be explored in a since spirit and purposeful manner." Evidently, India did not give in to any talk of a timeline or deadline. The statement said the CBM of call categories under discussion between the two governments should be implemented keeping in mind "practical possibilities," suggesting some out-of-box thinking on passage between Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and Jammu and Kashmir. Singh and Musharraf emerged from an hour-long meeting at the latter's suite in Hotel Roosevelt to address an impromptu media scramble in the hotel corridor. Musharraf read out the joint statement, thanking Singh for doing him an honour for allowing him to do so. In his brief remarks, Singh said his meeting with Musharraf was an "an essay in mutual comprehension." It was in keeping with his pre-meeting insistence that this was a "get-to-know" meeting. However, the two leaders also addressed the issue of Jammu and Kashmir and "agreed that possible options for a peaceful negotiated settlement should be explored in a since spirit and purposeful manner." Evidently, India did not give in to any talk of a timeline or deadline. The statement said the CBM of call categories under discussion between the two governments should be implemented keeping in mind "practical possibilities," suggesting some out-of-box thinking on passage between Pakistan-occupied Kashmir and Jammu and Kashmir. Singh and Musharraf emerged from an hour-long meeting at the latter's suite in Hotel Roosevelt to address an impromptu media scramble in the hotel corridor. Musharraf read out the joint statement, thanking Singh for doing him an honour for allowing him to do so. In his brief remarks, Singh said his meeting with Musharraf was an "an essay in mutual comprehension." It was in keeping with his pre-meeting insistence that this was a "get-to-know" meeting. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Sep 24 2004, 11:42 AM

Indian slave of friangi trying to ape Jai chand.

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 24 2004, 04:49 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Sep 25 2004, 12:12 AM)
Indian slave of friangi trying to ape Jai chand.
Mudy Ji : The Indian “Kalidas Klan Jai Chands” should take a Lesson from the Russians and Japanese : TOKYO: The Russian government has decided to build an oil pipeline from its eastern Siberian oilfields to the Pacific Ocean — as preferred by Japan — rather than through China, Russia’s ambassador to Japan said on Friday. "It’s settled, there was a decision taken in our government," the envoy Alexander Losyukov told AFP following a question and answer session with about 100 businessmen, diplomats and journalists organised by the Yomiuri Shimbun daily. "The pipeline will go to Nakhodka," a port in the Russian Far East facing Japan across the Sea of Japan (East Sea), the ambassador said, adding that the decision would be announced officially in the coming months. A Japanese foreign ministry official said only that Tokyo had not officially been notified by the Moscow that the Nakhodka route had been selected. "We know that there is such information as (Losyukov) has just said but officially we haven’t received any information from the Russian government confirming that they have just chosen the route to Nakhodka. "Of course the Japanese side is in favour of having the route to Nakhodka but we haven’t received any confirmation from the Russian government," the official added. Comment : The Japanese do not want a Pipe Line carrying Oil for Japan to pass through Chinese Territory. Tokyo has been pressing for Moscow to construct a 4,000 kilometre-long (2,500 miles) pipeline to Nakhodka, from where the oil would be shipped to Japan and other Asia-Pacific nations, and has offered to finance the entire cost of construction, according to the Russian side. China in turn has lobbied for about 10 years to persuade Moscow to follow a more southerly route, building a 2,400 kilometre-long pipeline from Angarsk in Siberia to Daqing in northeast China. "We currently supply China with oil by rail and the amount is increasing. If there are enough (oil) resources, another pipeline will probably be built to China," Losyukov said. "It’s more advantageous for us to build on our own territory and to handle the marketing ourselves than to send everything to another country and in a sense, depend entirely on it. "That’s the principle behind the operation of any pipeline — it’s preferable to have it on one’s own territory and to dispose of everything running through it oneself," Lusyukov told AFP. Comment : Even the Russians do not want their Oil Pipe Line – carrying Oil for other countries – to pass through China Russia is a major producer and resource-poor Japan and booming China are competing for access to its vast energy sources. China recently overtook Japan as the world’s second largest oil consumer after the United States. China has seen imports soar as flagging domestic production has failed to keep up with booming economic growth and demand from the auto market. Japan, which imports virtually all its oil needs, is trying to reduce its dependence on the Middle East for supplies. Japanese companies last year signed deals providing them with natural gas from Russia’s Sakhalin island for 20 years from 2007. Losyukov’s comment came as Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao is in Moscow at the head of a high-powered delegation for talks dominated by embattled oil major Yukos’ decision to cut supplies to the Asian giant by September 28. Wen, who arrived on Thursday, was also expected to push for Russia to give preference to a pipeline to China over the rival route to Japan. "We hope that the Russian government gives priority to the construction of a pipeline in the direction of China which is the most stable market for Russian oil," Wen was quoted as saying by the ITAR-TASS news agency. China plans to import 15 million tonnes of oil from 2006, according to the premier. The China route was backed by Yukos. The rival one to Japan is backed by Transneft, the state-controlled oil monopoly and Yukos’s rival. Only the Indian “Kalidas Klan” wants to have a Natural Gas Pipe Line through Lotastaan furious.gif Cheers

Posted by: Arun Sep 25 2004, 05:26 AM

QUOTE (Peregrine @ Sep 15 2004, 12:19 AM)
.............I find this to be rather low as the Transit dues of USD 600 Million annually work out to about USD 0.80 (US Cents Eighty) per MMBTU......................
Peregrine, First off, a good post. Alternatively, the USD 600 Million per year figure for transit fees could literally be a Pakistani “Pipe Dream” brought on by smoking some of Afghanistan’s finest. Take the transit fees that Russia pays to Belarus for third country sales per this Jamestown Foundation, June 2004, Where the pipeline is owned by Russia, the transit fee payable to Belarus is US 46 cents per 1000 Cu.m per 100 Km of pipeline. Where the pipeline is owned by Belarus, the transit figure payable to Belarus is higher at US 75 cents per 1000 Cu.m per 100 Km of pipeline. who prepared the feasibility study for the online gas pipeline indicates that the pipeline length traversing Pakistan is 760 Km and throughput 1.5-3 BCFD. Applying the Belarus-Russia transit fee rates : At US 46 cents and 1.5 BCFD, transit fee payable per year USD 54.22 M. At US 46 cents and 1.5 BCFD, transit fee payable per year USD 108.44 M. At US 75 cents and 3.0 BCFD, transit fee payable per year USD 88.40 M. At US 75 cents and 3.0 BCFD, transit fee payable per year USD 176.81 M. The above figures are a long way away from USD 600 Million per year.

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 25 2004, 09:52 AM

QUOTE (Arun @ Sep 25 2004, 05:56 PM)
Alternatively, the USD 600 Million per year figure for transit fees could literally be a Pakistani “Pipe Dream” brought on by smoking some of Afghanistan’s finest. Take the transit fees that Russia pays to Belarus for third country sales per this Jamestown Foundation, June 2004, Where the pipeline is owned by Russia, the transit fee payable to Belarus is US 46 cents per 1000 Cu.m per 100 Km of pipeline. Where the pipeline is owned by Belarus, the transit figure payable to Belarus is higher at US 75 cents per 1000 Cu.m per 100 Km of pipeline.
Arun : Very informative post and there is a Wealth of Information on “Quantum-Structure of Transit Fees” To enable me to compare with the Normal MMBTU and then a Tonne of LNG please give me the Equivalent of 1000 CBM Natural Gas to an MMBTU. My E-Mail Address : Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 28 2004, 10:59 AM NEW DELHI: National Thermal Power Corporation (NTPC) may buy liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Petronas of Malaysia to meet the deficit of fuel at its gas-based power plants. NTPC immediately needs between 7 to 9 million standard cubic metres per day of LNG to meet the deficit in natural gas supply for its gas-based combined cycle power plants at Anta, Auraiya, Kawas, Gandhar, Dadri and Faridabad for a three-year period.Indian DDM doing its nut - 7 to 9 million standard cubic metres per day of LNG would mean Three to Four Million Tonnes of LNG per day. I think they mean 7 to 9 Million standard cubic metres of Natural Gas a Day "We are talking to Petronas but nothing has been firmed up as yet," senior company officials said. Petronas is believed to have offered to deliver LNG on Gujarat coast at $3.35 per million British thermal unit (MBTU). After deducting $0.80 per MBTU for shipping the fuel from South-east Asia to Gujarat, the LNG is priced at $2.55 per MBTU, almost the same price at which Petronet LNG Ltd buys LNG from Qatar.*** NTPC plans to use Petronet LNG's Dahej import terminal to regasify the LNG, which will be pumped up to the power plants through the HBJ pipeline. "PLL will charge $0.44 per MBTU for regasifying the LNG NTPC would be importing," the official said. NTPC chairman and managing director, C P Jain refused to comment when asked if his company was close to clinching a deal with Petronas. Officials, however, said talks with Petronas were in advanced stages while a deal to use Petronet LNG's facilities at Dahaj in Gujarat was almost final. Petronet LNG has offered a processing capacity of 2.5 million tonnes per annum from now until March 2005 and a capacity of 1.5 million tonnes per annum from April, 2005 up to 2007. Petronet LNG will start full capacity operations only from April 1, 2005 when Rasgas of Qatar starts supplying 2.5 million tonnes per annum of LNG. Officials said NTPC had also talked to Royal Dutch/Shell, Rasgas, Petronet LNG and Yemen LNG for sourcing the LNG but none of them, except Petronas, had spare LNG. ***Ras Gas LNG is at USD 2.53 per MMBTU and the Transportation cost is US Cents 26 per MMBTU i.e. The C & F Price Dahej Terminal for Qatari LNG would work out to USD 2.80 per MMBTU. This prices is, I believe, on the Basis of a 10-25 Year Contract. Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Sep 30 2004, 12:40 PM NEW DELHI: Japanese banking giant Sumitomo Mitsui Banking Corporation has evinced interest in financing the proposed Iran, Pakistan and India gas pipeline project provided there was an equitable allocation of risks between sponsors, contractors and the project company. "The project seems to be financially viable from banking perspective provided the talks among the highest level of polity of Iran, Pakistan and India for laying the proposed 1800 km land-gas pipeline prove conclusive and the final feasiblility report is favourable conducted," SMBC's India country head and head of South Asia International Finance Department, Bharat Kaushal said at the India Power Forum. The corporation was willing to finance such projects in South Asia region keeping in view the growing demand of energy in the region, he was quoted as saying in an Assocham release. Kaushal said his corporation could also consider financing such mega pipeline projects under the regional cooperation head of the South East Asia region. On similar lines, the banking giant could also offer fiscal credit for laying gas pipeline from Bangladesh to India via Tripura, Kaushal said. Cheers

Posted by: SSridhar Oct 1 2004, 08:50 AM

Peregrineji, Here is some more info on transit fees for some other pipelines.

  • $26.32 per ton ($3.59 per barrel) per 100 kilometers
  • Russia-Belarus Deal: For gas supplied to third countries via Belarus, the transit fee is set at US$0.75 per 1,000 cubic meters per 100 kilometers of Belarus-owned pipeline.For the same service through the Russian-owned Yamal-Europe transit pipeline via Belarus, the fee remains at its present level of US$0.46.

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 1 2004, 10:03 AM

SSridhar Ji : You have E-Mail Cheers

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 8 2004, 04:29 PM ROTFL.gif ISLAMABAD: The Asian Development Bank (ADB) has observed that the Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan (TAP) gas pipeline project worth $3 billion is sustainable without the participation of India. “The ADB recently carried out a study that showed that the project was viable even if India does not participate in it,” Marshuk Ali Shah, ADB country director in Pakistan told Daily Times on Friday. By the year 2008, Pakistan would be facing a severe shortage of gas that could be met through the proposed gas pipeline project, he added. Mr Shah said that Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan are holding eighth meeting of the steering committee of the project in November where they would sign country framework agreement (CFA). He explained that the country framework agreement envisages the deal of sale, purchase of gas and security of the pipeline. The bank has prepared the draft of the CFA and it would be submitted before the eighth meeting of the steering committee next month for approval. He also said that the committee would also approve the process of bidding of the project and pre-qualification of the companies, willing to participate in the multi-billion dollars project. “At present several American, European, Middle Eastern, Pakistani companies and consortiums are willing to undertake the project,” Mr Shah added. In November this year the steering committee would pre-qualify well-reputed and technically sound companies for the project, he said. Mr Shah said that the pre-qualified companies would have to sponsor the trilateral gas pipeline project and arrange required funding of around $3 billion. “The project would be run by the private sector and the Asian Development Bank (ADB) was just acting as a broker and facilitator and the bank has provided technical assistance to carry out the feasibility study of the project,” said Mr Shah. He said that the bank has completed its proposal regarding the trans-national security plan for the protection of the gas pipeline that will originate from Turkmenistan and reach Pakistan via war-torn country, Afghanistan. He further said that the bank is also considering to make arrangements for the storage of gas from the TAP project with the aim to ensure its smooth supply in case of the disruption of gas pipeline in view of any unforeseen situation. —JM Let us wish the Lotastaanis the Best of Luck in getting this Pipe Line even though I feel that this project will not be viable if the have to build a storage plant with the aim to ensure its smooth supply in case of the disruption of gas pipeline in view of any unforeseen situation I think this is a ploy to get our “Naïve” Leaders and Media furious.gif to jump on the Bandwagon of Building a “Peace” Pipe Line via Lotastaan. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 11 2004, 11:19 AM

This is too good to be TRUE. If it materializes then we do not need any Pipe Line through the Terrorist State of Lotastaan. Since there is no THIRD COUNTRY involved there will be no TRANSIT DUES thumbup.gif clap.gif Press Trust of India / New Delhi October 11, 2004 Seeking to revive the old silk route link between the two regions, a visiting delegation from Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region of China and Indian industry today decided to study the feasibility of laying a natural gas pipeline across the two countries and open direct air link between Kashgar and New Delhi. India and Xinjiang also identified four major areas of potential cooperation -- agriculture and food processing, traditional medicine and herbs, energy and oil production, and tourism. In a CII-organised interface with Indian industry, Xuar Chairman Ismail Tiliwaldi highlighted the long history of friendly exchanges between India and Xinjiang region. "Both sides agree to explore the likelihood of laying a natural gas pipeline between India and China", a CII release said. With large reserves of oil, natural gas and coal along with granite, copper, mica and beryllium, the Xinjiang region accounts for 40% of the total coal reserves and 30% each of the total natural gas reserves and petroleum reserves of China, the release said. Tiliwaldi said the region has the largest growing base of cotton apart from being the second largest pasture land, thereby making it a major production base for vegetables and fruits. It also accounts for 40% of total production of fruits and has emerged the largest producer of herbs, Tiliwaldi said. Xinjiang region, adjoining J&K, is the largest autonomous region in China in terms of area, covering one-sixth of China. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 12 2004, 04:54 PM MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russian gas monopoly Gazprom and Petro-Canada aim to start delivering Russian liquefied natural gas to North American markets by 2009 under a memorandum signed by the two firms on Tuesday. The two will consider building an LNG terminal in the Baltic port of Ust Luga near St. Petersburg, which would produce 500 million cubic feet a day or 3.5 million tonnes a year -- 2.5 percent of current global output -- and cost $1.2 billion-$1.5 billion. "At the other end, in Canada, the re-gasification (terminal) would cost in the order of $500 million. In addition to that, there are obviously ships required to ship the gas," Petro-Canada Chief Executive Ron Brenneman told a briefing. Gazprom, the world's largest gas firm, is keen to supply U.S. markets, but as yet has no LNG facility of its own. Industry sources have told Reuters that Gazprom has also been in talks with BP Plc. to swap its pipeline gas in Europe for BP's LNG and begin deliveries as early as 2005. Gazprom has said the swap would allow it to learn more about the industry before it starts producing its own LNG from the giant Shtokman field in the Arctic. Analysts welcomed Gazprom efforts to enter the LNG market, which is growing faster than the traditional gas business. "The global trade in LNG is accounting for an ever-growing chunk of the world's trade in gas -- 27 percent in 2003 -- due to the improved economics and flexibility of the LNG business and to higher prices for natural gas," Troika Dialog brokerage said in a research note. It said the United States, the world's biggest gas consumer, was struggling with tight domestic supplies, sending gas prices rocketing. U.S. LNG imports could quadruple, making the market an attractive play for exporters, it said. The expected jump in U.S. LNG imports reflects the gap between falling domestic gas production and growing demand. Petro-Canada and Gazprom signed the agreement during a visit by Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin to Moscow. A feasibility study will take six months and help make Petro-Canada a big player in the growing LNG market, especially in North America, Brenneman said. The deal makes his company the first big Canadian oil producer in several years to enter Russia after several lost millions of dollars amid political turmoil in the 1990s. "There have been a number of American and European oil companies that have since made major investments in Russia and I think that's indicative of the sentiment these days -- that the climate has changed considerably," he told Canadian reporters by telephone. "We don't particularly see a lot of risk associated with this project." Adam Landes from Renaissance Capital said the firms could focus on LNG supplies to central Canada and the U.S. Northeast and Midwest markets. Last month, Petro-Canada proposed a Quebec re-gasification plant along with TransCanada Corp. . Landes also pointed out Petro-Canada owns a 17 percent stake in a BP-led LNG project in Trinidad & Tobago, which could potentially ease LNG-for-pipeline gas swap deals. Brenneman said gas for the new plant would initially come from Gazprom's grid. But his firm hopes to eventually bolster supplies by joining Gazprom's consortium for the Arctic Barents Sea Shtokman gas field, one of the world's biggest deposits. Gazprom is also talking to U.S. ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, Norway's Statoil and other firms to develop an LNG project at the Shtokman field. "We have expressed an interest. We think ... the experience we have in offshore development in harsh environments with the presence of ice would make us a logical partner for the Shtokman development," said Brenneman. LNG is gas, cooled to minus 259 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 162 Celsius) into a liquid, which shrinks to less than 1/600 of its original volume. Once it arrives at a re-gasification terminal in special tankers, it is returned to a gaseous state and fed into pipelines. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 23 2004, 11:46 AM

Was listening to one of the radio programs while driving - dont remember the channel.. sad.gif - Gist was that the US has been adding to its strategic oil reserve at a rate of 1% (i think of the total amt sold in US) since 9-11. - this makes USG as one of the major buyers pushing up oil prices .. - to give a perspective to this when Bush Sr announced that he was going to open up the strategic oil reserve oil prices plummeted by $10 in a day .. ohmy.gif Somebody said it was like a new oil source equivalent to Irag.. blink.gif Couldnt get to hear the whole story. But I was not aware that the US held such a huuuge strategic reserve. If it comes to it the US can play some real brinkmanship games and make the ME go bankrupt and OTOH isnt US $ 55 per barrel way too much ? Saudis must be raking in the moolah right now.. mad.gif

Posted by: Mudy Oct 23 2004, 08:34 PM

At this moment high oil price is causing inflation, US economy is back to stand still, stock market is down. These conditions just before election are a recipe for a pink slip to Bush. I don’t think Bush is in control of oil problem. I think Russia is playing big role in current high oil price

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 24 2004, 04:10 PM HYDERABAD: Terrorists bombed the main gas pipeline supplying Karachi and Hyderabad from Sui in Balochistan, at a village in district Sanghar, some 22km from here, on Sunday evening, a Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) official said. No casualty was reported, the police said. This brought stopped gas to some suburban towns of Hyderabad district,(Lotastaani Superior English prowess) Hasan Nawaz, senior manager of the SSGC said, adding gas was now being supplied to Karachi and Hyderabad by two other supply lines. He described the incident as subversion and an anti-state action. Smoke clouded the area following the blast, the police said. The SSGC official said the gas pipeline was bombed at Pir Abdul Nabi Sarhandi village near Odero Lal town in the police limits of Tando Adam in district Sanghar. The Hyderabad district police officer rushed to the scene with other police officials, cordoned off the blast site and evacuated Sarhandi village and five other villages in its vicinity as a precautionary measure. After the blast, gas spread over an area of about 10 kilometres. A bomb disposal squad from Hyderabad also inspected the scene of the explosion and said it was caused by explosives. Gas supply to nearby towns of Odero Lal, Palijani and Matiari was stopped soon after the explosion for the next 24 hours, an SSGC official said. The police made announcements in the area by megaphone, asking people not to light anything. Last month a main gas supply line was bombed in district Dadu. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 24 2004, 04:23 PM Pakistan’s dependency on the pipeline bothers the hawks in Pakistan. As a transit state Pakistan stands to gain a regular annual income of about $70-100 million* in addition to the renewed source of supply the pipeline would represent in the face of Pakistan’s dwindling domestic production of gas. Thus it would be difficult for Pakistan to allow deterioration in the bilateral equation on the pain of losing this income. (India can do without the Iranian gas at a pinch with some extra cost.)** *: Lotastaanis seem to have realized that the figure of USD 600-800 Million Annually as Transit Fees was a “Pie in the Sky” Figure **: This cost is much less than the Losses equivalent to Five Per Cent of India’s GDP in case of Lotastaanis disrupting the Pipe Line Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Viren Oct 24 2004, 09:17 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 23 2004, 11:34 PM)
I don’t think Bush is in control of oil problem.
Read somewhere (think it was US Today or Wall St Journal) last Thu/Fri that George Soros has lately been playing the oil futures market. If you know his past trading history and current political leanings, it all fits in tongue.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 25 2004, 04:35 PM

For the proponents of the Iran - India Natural Gas Pipe Line via Lotastaan : user posted image Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 25 2004, 04:46 PM

QUOTE (Viren @ Oct 24 2004, 09:17 PM)
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 23 2004, 11:34 PM)
I don’t think Bush is in control of oil problem.
Read somewhere (think it was US Today or Wall St Journal) last Thu/Fri that George Soros has lately been playing the oil futures market. If you know his past trading history and current political leanings, it all fits in tongue.gif
Viren, couple of interesting links..
The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) agreed to cut production targets by 4 percent. White House spokesman Scott McClellan said, "The United States continues to emphasize that oil prices should be determined by market forces." But the OPEC oil cartel is one of those "market forces." And so is the U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR). Since November 2001, the U.S. government has been adding about 160,000 barrels a day to the 651 billion barrels already stockpiled in the SPR. During that time, oil prices rose from less than $20 a barrel to as much as $37. ohmy.gif The Energy Department can't resist a bad bargain and plans to buy another 202,000 barrels a day in April. Some 55 members of the House of Representatives wrote to the president earlier this month urging the administration to stop adding to reserves.
Talking to Reuters about the OPEC decision, Gary Ross of PIRA Energy said, "This decision is only going to encourage the speculators to stay long on oil markets." But as President Bush I proved, it isn't hard to make speculators run for the exit. On Jan. 17, 1991, the elder President Bush publicly announced he had authorized the Energy Department to sell as much as 2.5 million barrels a day from the strategic stockpile. That would be like adding another Iraq overnight. The Washington Post reported what happened next: "Oil prices tumbled in London today, defying nearly unanimous predictions prices would skyrocket once war broke out in the Persian Gulf. After jumping $7 a barrel to nearly $40 in the first hour of the war, prices on world markets began to tumble. By midday, the price of benchmark North Sea Brent crude had dropped to near $21 a barrel." A follow-up story said, "The dramatic sell-off to $21.44 shocked traders and led several oil companies to announce immediate price cuts." Cutting oil prices in half was not a negligible effect; nor was it temporary. Oil remained at or below $20 until late 1999. Ironically, the United States did not even have to sell much oil. The announcement alone was enough to shock traders, forcing them to liquidate futures and options for whatever they could get. They never found out if the president was bluffing. But they knew he had a lot more oil than they did.
And then there is the other side to it..;read=49688
Among the other so-called developped countries there exists a certain standard for strategic oil reserves demanded by the International Energy Agency (IEA). The IEA had been set up by the OECD following the 1973 oil crisis. Its members are the U.S., Canada, the European Union and other Western European countries, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand. The IEA demands that every member country builds up oil reserves covering 90 days of supplies. Members of the European Union are also binded by law to maintain oil reserves amounting to at least 90 days of consumption. The European Commission last year proposed that the oil reserve requirement should be upgraded to 120 days of consumption, but no decision has yet been made. The main problem in the EU are now the new EU members in the East, which at present don't have enough reserves. Probably the most vulnerable countries presently in respect to oil supply disruptions -- at least in physical sense -- are China and India. Both countries are in cooperation with the IEA and have announced plans to build up strategic oil reserves. But at the moment, they don't exist. The Chinese government at the end of last year said China will build four coastal strategic oil reserves, including Dayawan in Guangdong Province. China imports about one-third of its oil consumption. The Indian Petroleum Ministry in September 2003 announced plans to build strategic oil reserves covering 45 days of demand. India's import dependeny in respect to crude oil is 70%. Obviously, it has to be noted that while strategic oil reserves could maintain physical demand for transportation, heating, production and military purposes for some time, the devastating effects of sky-rocketting oil prices would hit all the OECD economies nevertheless and could easily become the death nail for the global financial system
Some weird stuff is going on.. blink.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 25 2004, 04:52 PM

So does this mean that India/China will be buying high to store it ??? And then there is the other question - given the political leanings and maybe stock positions in oil companies does this building strategic reserves mean more money for some people ??

Posted by: Mudy Oct 25 2004, 06:24 PM

So does this mean that India/China will be buying high to store it ??? And then there is the other question - given the political leanings and maybe stock positions in oil companies does this building strategic reserves mean more money for some people ??
China is buying at this moment, India is slow. NDA planned SR for 45 days. Commie/Cong govt priorities are very different. Oil syndicate makes money. Texas oil cartel are making money.

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 25 2004, 07:10 PM

This building up of reserves must be contributing towards the high oil prices though.. So what can we expect ? Lets say Iraq is pacified -> there will be oil glut ? And what if Iraq stays like this and saudi joins the fun -> people will hoard even more.. sad.gif What is Soros doing ? Call ? Put ?

Posted by: Mudy Oct 25 2004, 07:36 PM

Soros and Putin are enjoying oil loot. Saudi fun is inevitable, only question is when. Iraq situation may go for worse; today Israel had made an announcement that they will allow Arafat to leave his complex for treatment. Arafat will use this opportunity to boil Middle East. It will heat up Middle East again for worse. Nov 2 will decide future course of Middle East also. Interesting time ahead. I am surprised why Bush administration is not doing anything to bring down oil price. WHY??? It may even cost his second term. I still don't understand.

Posted by: Viren Oct 26 2004, 07:30 AM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Oct 25 2004, 10:10 PM)
What is Soros doing ? Call ? Put ?
There are way too many trading stragtegies where you can take differing positions simultaneously and still be overall neutral e.g covered calls, straddles, butterflies, condor, collars etc... In Soros case, all he has to do is send a message and others will follow. Kinda like herd following Buffet.

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 26 2004, 01:17 PM DELHI: India's Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar, on a three-day visit to Russia to boost cooperation in the energy sector, an alternative pipeline route to the Mediterranean to enable India to source Siberian oil. During a meeting with Russian Energy and Industry Minister Victor Khristenko, Gazprom chairman Aleksei Miller and Lukoil president Wagid Alekperov, Aiyar discussed the Blue Stream gas pipeline project crossing the Black Sea from Djubga in Russia to Samsung in Turkey. "I expressed India's keenness to directly source Russian crude and suggested an alternative pipeline route from Nakhodka in Russia to the Caspian Sea on to the Black Sea and finally to the Red Sea," Aiyar told the media here Tuesday during a teleconference. "This way India will be able to directly source Siberian crude. India's purchase of Russian crude so far has been through the indirect route. Now with the pipelines it would be possible for India to buy Russian crude at alternative points," he said. While the proposal for a pipeline to the Red Sea is still to be studied, Aiyar was hopeful of the pipeline to the Black Sea becoming operational in less than two years and from Sakhalin to Japan by 2007-08. Describing the proposed pipeline to the Red Sea as a symbiosis of interest, he said he held further talks with Russian energy companies and his counterpart about India acquiring a stake in Russian firms. Through state-owned ONGC Videsh Ltd, the overseas arm of Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC), India already holds 20 percent equity stake in Sakhalin-I oil and gas block, which is expected to start gas production by the third quarter of 2005 and oil production in 2006. On the estimated $1 billion investment India would be making in Sakhalin in addition to the $1.74 billion invested so far, Aiyar said there has been no cost overrun. Exxon Mobil estimates a total investment of $12.8 billion in the Sakhalin-I block, which is expected to produce 50,000 barrels of oil a day from early 2006. By 2007, production is expected to go up to 250,000 barrels a day. Gas production is estimated to be 100-200 million cubic feet from 2005-end, and at its peak, 1,030 million cubic feet a day by 2010. "There has, however, been a rescheduling of activity which has pushed up the costs of phase one even as total estimates of the reserves of the field have risen. The net result has been that the unit development cost remains the same at $3.9 a barrel," Aiyar said. India has asked for a more detailed submission of the investment plan as OVL will need to get government approval before proceeding with the investment. While India may not be able to bring across its share of oil and gas from Sakhalin-I, Aiyar said he has made known gas infrastructure major GAIL (India) Ltd's interest to help with the laying of a pipeline to Japan in the event of exploration block operator Exxon Mobil deciding to do so. He said Russian private oil major Sibneft has offered stakes to ONGC in Barents Sea where it is involved in a joint project with state-owned oil major Yukos. Expressing happiness that Indian expertise in the energy sector is being recognised globally, Aiyar said Sibneft's interest is testimony of this fact. With the Russian government yet to decide on the auction of Yuganskneftegaz, the oil-producing subsidiary of Yukos that has run into tax problems, he said OVL has good prospects of getting a stake in it with other Russian companies. India is also hopeful of getting more equity stake in other Russian exploration blocks, including Sakhalin-III. WOW! Is MSA putting his “Cambridge” Education or the “IFS” College Training to BAD use? Or is this the effect of his closeness to “Pani Puri”? Or is it because he is a “Secular” Hindu? Such Brilliance can only exhibited by our Kaangress-Kamunist-Krazy Ministers. The Siberian Oil will first go via a 1,500 to 2,000 Kilometre Pipe Line to Nakhodka and then again from Nakhodka to –say- Batumi in the Black Sea. Thus it will travel by a Land Pipe Line to the Caspian Sea, then across the Caspian Sea by Marine Pipe Line to Baku and then over land to Batumi. Distance (About) : 4,070 Nautical Miles or 4,680 Statue Miles or 7,500 KM Countries Crossed : From Russia : China, Kyrgistan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan and Georgia Distance from Batumi to Aqaba (About) : 670 NM or 770 SM or 1,230 KM Countries Crossed : From Georgia : Turkey, Syria and Jordan Total Pipe Line Distance : 4,740 Nautical Miles or 5,450 Statue Miles or 8,700 KM Now the distance from Aqaba to Mumbai by Sea (About) : 2,900 Nautical Miles or 3,330 Statue Miles or 5,330 KM Thus the Total Distance works out to (About) 7,640 Nautical Miles or 8,670 Statue Miles or 14,000 KM. Sea Distance Nakhodka to Mumbai (About) : 5,450 Nautical Miles or 6,270 Statue Miles or 10,000. MSA’s scheme calls for an extra distance of (About) 2,200 Nautical Miles or 2,500 Statue Miles or 4,000 KM. Think of the cost of Pumping Oil over a distance of (About) 4,700 Nautical Miles or 5,400 or 8,600 KM along with the Transit Dues for TEN COUNTRIES. Please note that the Final “Distance” Figures will not tally if added individually. All Figures are About. I have heard of many a “Hair-brained” Scheme but this takes the Cake. What are the chances of Exporting MSA to Lotastaan? I am sure that he will cause far more Damage to Lotastaan then even 100 Nuclear Devices. thumbup.gif Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 26 2004, 04:11 PM

Lotastaanis are Past Masters at Cheating. I am sure that they will resort to “Bleeding of Natural Gas” from the Iran – Lotastaan – India Pipe Line and replace it with Air. This “filling of Air” is a regular feature at Lotastaani CNG Filling Stations as per the following Letter : If equipment for measuring quality and quantity of fuel dispensed is made available at petrol pumps, why cannot we have similar natured equipment for CNG? Short measure and filling of "air" pakee.gif are common complaints at almost every CNG station. Why cannot HDIP come up with some solution to check adulteration of CNG? Why cannot consumers have a "then and there" check. All oil companies boast of having mobile units for quality control of petrol and diesel but have nothing to offer CNG. Perhaps Mr Amanullah Jadoon, our honourable minister for petroleum and natural resources can advise the relevant officials of his Ministry to look into this public nuisance. I am sure the goals and targets given to the Minister and his ministry by the PM would be achieved by the year 2050 but this one could be achieved quite earlier and win laurels as well. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: sridhar k Oct 28 2004, 02:43 PM

Peregerineji, When the mushlets send us hot air in the pipelines, we will send our hotair bomb (MSA) to terroristan as a token of gratitude. I guess we will talk keep talking about iran -india pipeline thru the terrorist state, lots of chai-biscoot, by the time it comes there will be no terroristan. Our babus will ensure the timely(when terroristan gets wiped out) completion of project.

Posted by: Peregrine Oct 28 2004, 03:32 PM

sridhar k Ji : As you know the Iran – India Land Pipe Line via Lotastaan will take anywhere between Three and Five Years for construction. This should be the minimum period as the Pipe Line will be buried and not on the surface. Still disruptions due to Terrorist Action or Lotastaani Governmental Pique in addition to the ever present problem of Pilferage will always remain. If GOI agrees to a Pipe Line before the Lotastaani Terrorists are controlled and a semblance of Peace prevails then it will be making the same mistake that the BJP led NDA Government made is starting Talks with Lotastaan without the “complete stoppage of Lotastaani Cross Border Terrorism”. Here is a quote from the News on Sunday – Jang of 24-10-2004 : Unfortunately MSA seems to have no idea what he is talking about as has been made apparent by his “pontificating” in respect of the Nakhodka - Caspian Sea - Black Sea -Red Sea Oil Pipe Line. With Ministers like him India needs no Enemies. MSA is more likely to wipe out India than “Terroristan-Lotastaan” I am sure that the “Energy Specialists” in the Cambridge University must be Hiding Their Heads in Shame It will be interesting to know what made the Lotastaanis, or was it the Lotastaani ADB Representative in Lotastaan, reduce the Transit Charges from USD 600 – 800 Million annually to USD 70 – 100 Million annually. Cheers

Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 31 2004, 01:13 PM

rocker.gif rock.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 1 2004, 05:40 PM

[URL=] Those with pipelines call the tune[/URL] Why dont we just send this guy over to Pak ? mad.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 2 2004, 01:49 PM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Nov 2 2004, 06:10 AM) Why dont we just send this guy over to Pak ? mad.gif
rajesh_g : Simple. India did. The Lotas refused to accept him. Now India is stuck with him. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 3 2004, 01:54 PM

Cross Posted on the Lotastaani Thread : Lotastaan gets on the LNG Bandwagon KARACHI (APP) - Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) was considering the offer to import 350 to 500 million cubic feet (mmcf) per day of Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) from Qatar or Iran to meet rising domestic demand. This was stated by the managing director SSGC Munawar Baseer Ahmed here Wednesday. He said that three to four international firms including Shell and Asia Petroleum have approached the company as well as Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources and offered to supply LNG from Iran or Qatar. “We have asked them to lower their price from $ 3.50 to $ 2.50 per million cubic feet (MMCF) per day. Our average buying price is about 2.20 mmcf per day in the country”, Baseer said and hoped that they will come back with the new price structure. He said that LNG project will be faster in implementation as it will not involve pipeline installation, any territorial issue or third party interest which is related to Pak-Iran gas pipeline or Turkmenistan. The gas will be converted into LNG at the fields in Qatar or Iran and will be gasified in Pakistan, he added. He said that the demand for gas was rising rapidly and SSGC will need 1 billion cubic feet per day in next three years to cater to this demand. Currently SSGC was supplying 750 mmcf to its consumers, he added. He said that by 2010, there will be a significant shortage of gas in the country if not imported at a large scale. The domestic demand was rising at a rate of 6 per cent while CNG station requirements growing at 10 to 12 per cent per annum. SSGC has to supply gas to DHA desalination plant, Fauji Fertilizer plant at Bin Qasim, Tapal Energy, textile city, Al-Tuwairqi steel mills. To a question, he said that three pipeline projects were still under negotiations and they will take at least five years from the date of finalisation of agreement while LNG project will take two to three years for completion. He pointed out that SSGC consultants and the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources were preparing two presentation on these three projects for the Prime Minister. These presentation will include cost/ benefit analysis, value/benefit analysis, geo-political and security issues, he added. He said that gas through Iran gas pipeline project will cost $ 2 mmcf per day, while Turkmenistan gas pipeline and Qatar Gas pipeline to cost below $ 2 mmcf per day. Baseer said that till such time when one of these pipeline projects is picked for implementation, LNG project is feasible and practical to meet immediate demand provided the gas is available at 2.50 mmcf per day. The only significance of this Article is that Lotastaanis have realized that a Naturla Gas Pipe Line through Balochistan and NWFP will keep getting “Blown-Up” at regular intervals. As such they are considering getting on the LNG Bandwagon. Meantime All Gas Units as given by the Lotastaani “Munawar Baseer Ahmed” prove that he is “Innocent of Gas Units”. ROTFL.gif Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy Nov 16 2004, 09:22 AM

Reliance finds more gas off east coast Agencies/ New Delhi Reliance Industries Ltd has made two more gas discoveries at its prodigious D6 and NEC-25 blocks off the east coast, the company's junior partner Niko Resources of Canada announced. At the D6 block in the Krishna Godavari basin, off the Andhra coast, Reliance made its eleventh and twelfth consecutive gas discovery in M-1 and H-1 exploration wells. "The operator (Reliance) estimates the M-1 exploration well has approximately 155 metres of net pay making it one of the thickest net pay gas sections encountered to date in the D6 Block (where 14.5 trillion cubic feet of gas reserves have been discovered since 2002)," Niko said. The well flowed 23.7 million cubic feet per day from a six metre interval at a depth of 2,750 metres. The H-1 well also encountered commercial gas and its results are currently being evaluated by the operator. Niko said Reliance has also made its fifth consecutive gas find at Block NEC-25, off the Orissa coast but gave no details. Reliance Industries has 90 per cent interest in the two blocks while Niko Resources has the remaining 10 per cent. In D6, a well on an additional prospect, G-1, drilling is going ahead. "All drilling in 1.9 milion acre D6 to date has occurred in the first 1800 square kilometre 3D seismic programme that covers 20 per cent of the block. Processing and interpretation of newly-acquired 3D seismic data totalling 3165 square kilometres is under way with additional exploratory drilling to begin in 2005," Niko said.

Posted by: Mudy Nov 16 2004, 12:35 PM

Posted by: Mudy Nov 16 2004, 04:46 PM

India Seeks Ships to Import Iran LNG Petronet LNG Limited (PLL) will hire three more liquefied natural gas tankers for transporting LNG from Qatar/ Iran to its expanded Dahej terminal in Gujarat and a new project at Kochi in Kerala. PLL, which already has a 138,000 cubic meter capacity ship ferrying LNG from Qatar to its Dahej terminal and a second similar tanker scheduled for delivery in December, needs two more LNG tankers of similar capacity for hauling additional five million ton gas to Dahej, a senior company official said. For the 2.5 million ton per annum Kochi terminal, PLL wants a 152,000-165,000 cubic meter-capacity ship. "PLL has floated global tenders for time-chartering three more LNG tankers as well as for engineering, procurement and construction (EPC) contracts for the expansion of Dahej terminal to 10 million ton and a greenfield re-gasification terminal at Kochi," he said. (Source: Iran News, November 9)

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 17 2004, 06:09 AM Original estimates of $500m to $600m not expected n ADB to submit report this month ISLAMABAD: Contrary to initial expectations that Pakistan would make $500 million to $600 million per year in transit fees as a result of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline, fresh government estimates show that Islamabad will earn $70 million to $80 million if the proposed $2 billion Peace Pipeline materializes, a government official told Daily Times. “Earlier when he was chief executive, President Musharaff liar.gif used to tell the press that Pakistan would be given $500 million to $600 million as transit fee for allowing the laying of a gas pipeline on its territory from Iran to India. But this is wrong.” Iftikhar Rashid, the spokesman and additional secretary of the ministry of petroleum, confirmed that Pakistan would get $70 million to $80 million as transit fee. This has been estimated based on transit fees of the other oil or gas pipelines laid in other parts of the world. He said $500 million to $600 million as transit fee is “an exaggerated and fabricated figure and India would never accept this huge amount under the head of transit fee for Pakistan.” He refused to say whether India had agreed on the figure of $70 million. He said the consortium, which is yet to be set up to run the mega project would, decide the exact transit fee for Pakistan, which he expects to range between $70 million and $80 million.[/b] He said consortium would also consider the views of Iran and India since they would be the ultimate users of the gas from the pipeline. He also said the consortium would decide on the transit fee keeping in view the length and diameter of the pipeline and the volume of gas which the pipeline would take from Iran to India. He said if Pakistan uses the gas from the pipeline for its own consumption, then the transit royalty would further reduce. Three options being considered: Mr Rashid also said Pakistan will run short of gas by 2010 and keeping this in view, the government is considering three options to import gas from Turkmenistan, Qatar and Iran. He said the Asian Development Bank (ADB) has been given the task by the government to assess which project should be started first. He said the ADB is conducting a study and is to submit a report this month after prioritizing the gas pipeline projects. However, he said that in laying of the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan gas pipeline, the poor security situation in Afghanistan and the non-availability of certification of gas reserves potential in the Daultabad gas field by Turkmenistan are major hurdles. He also said the laying of a gas pipeline from Qatar is too costly, as it has to pass through deep-sea water before entering Pakistan. He said there are bright chances to initiate work on the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project first. However the final decision would be taken after the assessment of the ADB. Mr Rashid said the Indian authorities wanted to link the safety of the gas pipeline and the smooth supply of gas with the import of high speed diesel from India but Pakistan has turned down this condition. He said Pakistan would extend international guarantees for the safety and smooth supply of gas to India. He also said the oil ministers of Pakistan and India could meet in December and January after the Foreign Office determines a date and venue for the meeting. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Peregrine Nov 17 2004, 06:20 AM

Mudy Ji : In addition to the Dahej LNG Terminal we have the Hazira LNGTerminal (I believe it is near Surat) in Gujarat which is due to come on stream in the early part of 2005. In addition to the Kochi LNG Terminal being built I believe the Dabhol (Ex Enron) Terminal will be put into operation. This will give Western-Northern+Southern India supply of about 20 to 25 Million Tonnes of LNG Annually which would equate to about Three to Four Billion Cubic Feet per Day. The proposed Enore (North of Chennai) LNG Terminal would provide additional capacity to the Natural Gas from the East Coast of India Off Shore Fields. Now we have to see if India would need further Natural Gas by Land or Sea Pipe Lines. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Nov 28 2004, 06:22 PM

Shortage of 'grey matter'

Pipeline key to energy security: Aiyar Statesman News Service GUWAHATI, Nov. 28. — The much talked about proposed transnational gas pipeline through Iran, Pakistan and India will be of strategic importance as far as the country’s energy security is concerned. Union petroleum minister Mr Mani Shankar Aiyar, who is here on a visit to some of the oil establishments in upper Assam, said today that as the country’s demand for gas had far exceeded domestic production, the most viable option before it was to import gas through pipelines. “The proposed Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline will be strategically important for our energy security. We also look forward to Bangladesh to approve our plan to lay a gas pipeline through that country connecting India to the gas reserves in Myanmar,” he said. The average volume of gas produced in the country in 1980s stood at 9 million standard cubic metre per day (MSCMD). Today, the figure stands at 90 MSCMD against the domestic demand of 120 MSCMD, which is expected to rise to 400 MSCMD by 2020. “We have to increase production of gas, domestic production will not be sufficient to meet the demand if our economy grows at the rate of 7 to 8 per cent,” he said. India is compelled to focus more on gas exploration and production than on crude oil for two basic reasons. The first, “severe geological obstructions” that have come in the way of striking oil in deeper and older rock formations. Second, gas has become a substitute for oil because of availability of developed technology. “What petroleum was for the 20th century, gas is for the 21st century,” Mr Aiyar said. He said Oil India Limited and Assam Gas Company Limited were jointly roping in six foreign experts to explore the gas beneath the bed of the Brahmaputra. “We are going to get those foreign experts to compete against each other to help us find new gas bearing formations.” Efforts to increase the production of crude oil have run into geological obstacles. At present 90 per cent of the crude oil in the country is extracted from rock formations that are 60 million years old while in the rest of the world oil is extracted from much older formations aged around 300 million years. The minister denied having taken a final decision on the merger of OIL and the IOC. He said the petroleum ministry had prepared eight different options for having a strong and effective public sector in the oil economy, which could hold its own against stiff competition in both the domestic and global market.

Posted by: Naresh Dec 3 2004, 07:44 AM Never bypass the boss, they say. And never contradict him either. A gooding babuhaving to learn this the hard way. Isloo’s wags say that the additional secretary at the gas station, a close relative of the minister, got the secretary’s back up because of his access to, and influence over, his own minister as well as the defence minister. A great opportunity to stick the knife in was presented when the do-gooder told an inquiring hack that the transit fees for Pakistan from the proposed gas pipeline from Iran to India would amount to no more than US$50-70 million a year, faulting the grossly exaggerated figures of US$800 million a year given to the real PM some years ago by an overzealous minister. As soon as the remarks were published, the do-gooder received a call from the real PM’s right hand man. The gent asked the do-gooder babu why he had contradicted the officially touted figure of US$800 million and embarassed the real PM. In the event the wretched fellow received his marching orders first thing in the morning last Friday asking him to report to the establishment division by the end of the working day, which was 12 noon since it was a Friday! Whether the real PM knows what has happened on his behalf or not, the fact is that his minions seem more loyal than the king. And they say this is a transparent and good government!

Posted by: Peregrine Dec 6 2004, 05:28 AM Daily Times Monitor LAHORE: A 16-inch diameter gas pipeline exploded in the Thari Mirwah suburban area in Khairpur in Sindh, late on Sunday, a news channel reported. Gas supply to Sukkur and Nawabshah was suspended after the incident and the repair work was started. Authorities said the cause of blast was unknown, the channel said. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Naresh Dec 7 2004, 04:44 AM KARACHI, Dec 6: The Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) has said that its 16-inch diameter Indus Left Bank Pipeline (ILBP), taking gas to Sukkur, was ruptured at a place about 65 km away from Sukkur at 10:30 pm on Sunday. A four-feet section of the pipeline was damaged at the downstream nullah overhead crossing. The cause of the rupture is being investigated. However a possibility of sabotage cannot be ruled out, says a press release of the Sui Southern Gas Company. As a result of the rupture, gas supply to Mehrabpur, Kandyaro, Setharja, Thari Mirwah and villages along the route was disrupted. However, supply of gas to Sukkur, Rohri, Pannu Aqil, Khairpur, Pir Jo Goth, Ranipur, Lakki, Wazirabad, Kot Diji, and Kumb towns is being made through available 'line pack pressure'. Repair teams rushed from the company's Khadejee Construction Base camp to the affected place carrying machinery and other material. The damaged section of the pipeline had been isolated and the main valves upstream and downstream had been closed, the press release said. Sui Southern Gas Company's spokesman said that the pipeline was being repaired on an emergency basis and gas supply was expected to be restored soon.

Posted by: ramana Dec 7 2004, 11:49 AM

We hear so much about Hydrogen as replacement fuel of the future etc. What is the scoop on this? Please post any links and overall summary story of this. Thanks, ramana

Posted by: Peregrine Dec 25 2004, 02:52 PM ISLAMABAD: A four-member Pakistani delegation left for Iran on Friday for talks on the proposed Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline project, the United News International news agency reported. The talks will focus on finalising a formal agreement on laying the pipeline. Petroleum Ministry officials said the delegation would also discuss the $3 billion project even if India were not interested, the Indian news agency said. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Naresh Dec 30 2004, 12:33 PM China's West-East natural gas pipeline begins commercial operations today, according to officials involved in the project. Petrochina, the state-owned oil giant, which operates the pipeline, said yesterday it had signed agreements with 12 new customers, bringing the total number of downstream gas customers for its cross-country pipeline to 40. China's 4,000km pipeline is an ambitious undertaking to transfer natural gas from the Tarim Basin in Xinjiang province to China's eastern cities, including Shanghai. Su Shulin, a senior official with the company, said he expected the pipeline to break even this year and record a profit next year. He predicted the pipeline would be able to transmit 12bn cu m of natural gas by 2007. Xu Dingming, head of the energy bureau of the National Development and Reform Commission, estimated that natural gas accounted for 2.7 per cent of China's total energy consumption but this would increase to 10 per cent by 2020. Andy Yeh, Beijing Note : This Pipe Line was originally estimated to cost USD 20 Billion. The last “best” guesstimate was USD 24 Billion.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 1 2005, 04:39 PM Russia said it had ordered the construction of an oil pipeline from its huge Siberian oilfields to the Pacific Ocean, in a move to boost export opportunities throughout East Asia and to the United States. A "system of pipelines" with an annual capacity of 80 million tonnes would be built from Taishet in Siberia to Perevoznaya near Vladivostok and the eastern port of Nakhodka, the government said in a statement. Energy-thirsty Japan and China have been competing for several years for access to supplies from the world's second biggest oil exporter after Saudi Arabia. But the 4,130-kilometre (2,560-mile) link to Nakhodka become the preferred option earlier this year after lengthy talks with Tokyo, which has said it would finance its construction. No price tag was put on the project Friday, but Russian officials have said previously it would cost some US$16 billion (12 billion euros) or almost seven times the cost of the alternative option to China. And for Russia, the Pacific route means that besides Japan, it could supply oil to other countries in the region, including South Korea, and even, potentially, the west coast of the United States. Officials in Beijing have raised the possibility that a branch of Russia's Pacific pipeline could be diverted eventually to China, although there was no mention of this in Friday's statement from Moscow. But in a major sweetener for Beijing, Industry and Energy Minister Viktor Khristenko on Thursday announced that Chinese oil conglomerate CNPC could be offered up to 20 percent of the main asset of the dismembered Russian energy supplier Yukos. In what would amount to a strategic energy tie-up between Russia and China, Khristenko said China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) could end up owning a significant chunk of the assets of Yuganskneftegaz, which pumps a million barrels a day and owns 17 percent of Russia's oil reserves. Moscow has signed agreements with CNPC reflecting bilateral "strategic understandings" on the expansion of energy cooperation, deemed vital to long-term economic growth in both countries, he said. Russia is also proposing to pump oil west towards the Adriatic and ports in Albania, Croatia and Greece, and north to serve North America via a Barents Sea port, as it strives to boost its ability to supply rising demand in international markets. In October Khristenko said Russia's international oil pipelines would transport 303 million tonnes a year by 2010 and 433 million by 2020. Last year the pipeline network handled 182 million tonnes of Russia's total exports of 223 million. Russian production of crude oil should reach between 550 and 590 million tonnes per year by 2020 owing to development of resources in western Siberia and the far East, the energy minister has said. The state energy agency has forecast oil production will increase by six to eight percent in 2004 from 2003 output of 421 million tonnes.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 5 2005, 05:29 PM NEW DELHI: Reliance Industries, India's largest private sector company, has bagged for exploration a major offshore oilfield in Oman with large reserves potential, a top minister of the Gulf country said here Wednesday. Oman's Oil and Natural Gas Minister Mohammed bin Hamad Al Romhi said Reliance had successfully bid for Offshore Block 18. "We are hopeful of signing the concession agreement in a week or so," he told reporters. This is the second oil asset acquired by Reliance outside India after an exploration block in Yemen with discovered reserves. Seismic studies of the Oman oil block shows deep reserves, the Oman minister said. Al Rohmi, in the capital to participate in the first roundtable of Asian oil buyers and sellers Thursday, said his country was watching keenly the India government's efforts to revive the Dabhol power project in Maharashtra. Oman, he said, had a contract to supply 1.7 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas to the Dabhol project. The gas was being sold in the spot market but now a contract has been entered into to supply half that amount to Japan. He said the Indian government was proposing to revive the Dabhol unit only in a phased manner, because of which gas supplies would not be a problem. "It will not make any difference since India wants to restart the project on a smaller scale, requiring 500,000 tonnes of gas per annum." Al Rohmi said discussions were being held with India's state-owned Hindustan Petroleum Company Limited for a long-term contract to sell 10,000 barrels of crude oil a year. Referring to the long-pending Oman-India pipeline, the minister said the project had been dropped as it was not found to be technically feasible.# India, he said, was welcome to participate in his country's open system of awarding exploration blocks. At the roundtable Thursday, four principal buyers -- China, South Korea, Japan and host India -- are expected to focus on issues like supplies, long-term contracts, technology transfers and investment cooperation. The major West Asian oil producers participating in the roundtable include Saudi Arabia, Iran, Qatar, Oman, the United Arab Emirates and Kuwait, along with Malaysia. The Indonesian oil minister cancelled his trip in view of the Dec 26 tsunami disaster. # :It was technically possible over Ten Years Ago and is still possible but the Leftist-JNU Ilk in India’s Bureaucracy-Political Leadership is ensuring that this Deep Sea Pipe Line Project is not being considered.

Posted by: Mudy Jan 7 2005, 08:59 AM by Anand Kumar

Posted by: Naresh Jan 7 2005, 10:55 AM$All/C9F0CE784E6ADA9765256F82003D92DA?OpenDocument New Delhi, Jan 7 (PTI) Energy-hungry India today signed an agreement to import 7.5 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas from Iran from 2009 under an oilfield-for-LNG deal where Tehran will also give Indian firms developmental rights in two producing oil fields. Iran would sell the LNG to India at a price linked to Brent crude oil. As per the formula, New Delhi would pay 1.2 dollars plus 0.065 of Brent crude average. However, Brent price would have an upper ceiling of 31 dollars a barrel. This means even if Brent crude price crosses 31 dollars a barrel, 0.065 of 31 dollars a barrel would be taken for calculating the price, translating into 3.21 dollars per million British thermal unit. The LNG price for the first three years of supplies would be fixed at 2.97 dollars a barrel, apparently to make the imports competitive with Qatar price. Qatar is currently selling LNG to India at 2.53 dollars a barrel fixed price for 5 years upto 2008 after which its price too would be linked to 16 to 24 dollars a barrel price band. At the upper end of the band, Qatari LNG would cost around the Iranian price. "GAIL and Indian Oil Corp have signed an agreement with National Iranian Gas Export Corp today to import 7.5 million tonnes of LNG for 25 years," Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar said. ONGC Videsh Ltd (OVL) will get a 20 per cent share in the development of Iran's biggest onshore oil field, Yadavaran, and 100 per cent in 30,000 barrels per day Jufeyr field. The 20 per cent in Yadavaran would translate into 60,000 barrels per day of crude oil for India, he said. PTI So a 25 Year Contract for 7.5 Million Tonnes of LNG even though it is at the Higher Price of USD 3.21 (Upper Limit) per MMBTU beginning in 2009 is not bad. It would equates to about USD 167 per Tonne on an FOB Basis. The Chinese have got their LNG a bit cheaper but that is the price India has to pay for its indecisiveness.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 7 2005, 06:32 PM

MESSAGE FROM PAKISTAN – LNG IS BEST *BLF claims responsibility * Heavy gunfire exchanged between BLF, security personnel QUETTA: Unidentified people blew up a gas pipeline in Sui late on Friday and exchanged fire with security personnel in the same area. The Baloch Liberation Front (BLF) claimed the attack, saying it was in reaction to the gang-rape of a female doctor in Sui. Police said a gas pipeline was destroyed after a rocket hit it and heavy gunfire was heard later. The pipeline caught fire and flames were seen shooting up from far away. Gas field officials suspended the gas supply and were reported to have controlled the fire. It was not known whether gas to any area was suspended. Sources said the pipeline was hit near the gas well, where pipes led to the compression plant and then to the gas purification plant. Therefore, the attack might not affect gas supply, they added. Deputy Superintendent of Police Abdul Karim said security personnel and the Frontier Corps retaliated with heavy weapons and repulsed the attack. The firing started at around 8:40pm and continued till 9:25pm. It later resumed at 10:35pm and continued till 11:45pm. Sources said several children and one woman were reportedly injured when security personnel shot at a residential area, but the reports were not confirmed. Police said they could only hear gunshots and mortar fire and could see the pipeline engulfed by flames from their station. Nobody could leave the station, as gunshots were being exchanged all around their station. Sources said emergency was declared in the Sui gas field hospital.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 8 2005, 06:46 PM NEW DELHI: Oil minister Mani Shankar Aiyar and his Iranian counterpart Bijan Namdar Zanganeh on Friday breathed life into the proposed $4.16 billion overland gas pipeline through India, with New Delhi and Teheran agreeing to finalise the technical details next month. "An Iranian delegation will visit India on the eve of Asian Gas Buyers' Summit scheduled for February 14 to initiate discussions with their Indian counterparts on a term chart relating to possible Iranian gas import through an overland pipeline at India-Pakistan border," Aiyar said after a meeting with Zanganeh. The security of supplies to India through the 2775-km pipeline, 760-km of which will pass through Pakistan, remained a key issue for India, Aiyar said adding “delivery of gas at our border" was of utmost concern and the country would prefer the cheapest option. Zanghneh said Pakistan wants a pipeline to bring Iranian gas for its domestic use on priority. “We have two or three options. First, an Iran-to-Pakistan pipeline be built to meet Pakistan's huge requirement in future. Second, two separate pipelines — one each for Pakistan and Indian markets, are built. And third option is that we build a pipeline that feeds both Pakistan and India. It (the third option) is the best way to supply gas at the cheapest price." Aiyar is scheduled to visit Teheran in June. The February talks are expected to firm up issues like price, quality and quantity of the gas to be transported through the pipeline. On the issue of piped gas competing with liquefied gas imported in ships, Zanghneh said, “I don't think our assessment shows that gas through (Indo-Iran) pipeline is cheaper than liquefied natural gas.(1)” As a way to allay Indian security concerns, Zangeneh said international consortium of bankers and oil firms could build and operate the project(2). Besides, gas stockpile on Indian borders(3) as well as Tehran's willingness to supply gas in the form of LNG in case of sabotage of the line were enough guarantees for secured supplies to India(4). [b](1)If the gas through Pipe Line is not cheaper than LNG then why build a Pipe Line? (2) This will not deter the Pakistani Religious-Fundamental-Terrorists form blowing up the Pipe Line. How about Pakistani Government stopping the flow of gas at every minor policy disagreement with India? (3) Will Iran pay for the cost of building a Natural Gas Storage – in Caves or disused mines – or if stored as LNG then a Liquefaction Plant, LNG Storage Tank and finally a “Re-Gas-Plant” (4) In case of disruption of supply by the Pipe Line through Pakistan where-how will Iran get : * Spare “Liquefaction Train” Capacity – LNG Trains are built in anticipation of Fixed Long Time contracts. There is no Idle-Spare Capacity. ** Spare LNG Tanker to lift the LNG – At USD 200 Million each they are not available in the “Corner Shop” *** The Indian LNG Receiving Marine Terminals will already be booked-busy with Long Term Contracts-Programmes. Where will we get Terminal Facility to Receive the LNG Tankers? India should not fall for this trick and keep “ploughing” ahead with importing of Natural Gas requirements in the form of LNG

Posted by: Naresh Jan 11 2005, 08:29 AM user posted image India will on Wednesday open high-level talks with both Burma and Bangladesh aimed at approving a multi-billion dollar gas pipeline to feed India's surging demand for energy. Agreeing to the talks amounts to a significant change of attitude by Bangladesh, which has prevaricated for years over whether it would be prepared to link its untapped gas reserves to India by pipeline. There has long been political resistance in Dhaka to exporting its most valuable natural resource to its neighbour. But Mani Shankar Aiyar, India's minister for petroleum, told the Financial Times that the three countries had reached the stage where practical negotiations could proceed. Indian officials say Bangladesh's new interest in the pipeline has partly been stimulated by India's improving ties with Burma. If routed through Bangladesh, the pipeline would earn transit fees for Dhaka while also offering it the option to sell its own gas to India using the same infrastructure. Mr Aiyar will hold talks with both countries in Burma's capital Rangoon on Wednesday. On Thursday, he will visit the country's offshore gas field, which was partly discovered by Gas India Limited, India's state-owned gas company. The proposed pipeline could either cross Bangladesh or by-pass the country altogether. India, whose demand for gas is projected to more than quadruple to 400m cubic metres a day by 2025, is also evaluating a submarine pipeline across the Bay of Bengal, in case Bangladesh does not agree to the project. A costlier option would be to route the pipeline from Burma's northern border through India's north-eastern state of Mizoram. A pipeline could go a long way towards meeting India's growing energy needs, though it remains unclear how large Burma's gas reserves will prove to be. Gas discoveries in the Shwe field in the Andaman Sea off Burma's coast last year opened the possibility of exports to India. But further tests need to be completed in Burma's biggest offshore gas field to assess its commercial potential, analysts said. Analysts estimate gas reserves in the Shwe field of up to 14 trillion cubic feet. Estimates for Bangladesh are also hazy, with net proven gas reserves of 15 tcf, but the US Geological Survey estimated that Bangladesh contains an 32.1 tcf in additional "undiscovered reserves". India is also keen on the project for diplomatic reasons. "This gas pipeline would greatly strengthen relations with a much neglected country to the east of India [Burma]," said Mr Aiyar. India's increasingly close ties to Burma's military junta are widely seen as a belated attempt to emulate China's influence there, which is extensive. However, India believes it can strengthen relations with Burma without antagonising Beijing.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 17 2005, 03:49 PM ISLAMABAD: Managing Director of Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC), Rasheed Loon, said restoration work for Sui gas from gas plant is confronted with delay as following the quite critical situation at the repairing work site the SSGC employees and engineers have refused to continue the work. The refusal by the SSGC workers pushed by the life-risking atmosphere in the area could drag out the gas restoration as long as two months, he told. Talking to Geo TV after returning from his official visit to Qatar, he informed that Sporadic incidents of firing and rocket-attacks were going on for the last around two years which had aggravated now to an threatening extent. If any rocked had been fired onto any gas pipeline during gas supply, there could have been irreversible loss, he feared. He told: “The government has ever tried to meet their legal demands in one or another way. Despite the fact the local attackers never abstained from causing huge loses to the gas supply pipeline time to time.” He said that due to the gas supply suspension the country was facing economic losses worth rupees 14 corer – SHOULD BE CRORES – (Rs. 140 Million = USD 2,333,333 PER DAY) and the SSGC company rupees 10 corer everyday respectively, excluding the financial losses to emanate from cancellation of the gas supply to country’s industrials. He unveiled as to the company had committed to the government for not suspending the gas supply to fertilizer companies. Against it, the present tense situation of the gas supply it would not be able to continue with its commitment, which means a massive loss to the wheat crops. The Land of the Impure will make up its losses by begging at UNCLE’S FEET. It is important to consider what would be the losses to the Indian Economy if the Iran-India Pipe Line via the Land of the Impure is disrupted for TWO MONTHS.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 18 2005, 06:52 AM KARACHI: The industrial areas of Karachi are bearing 25 percent production losses due to load shedding of gas by Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) after the closure of Sui Purification Plant, industrialists said. The most hurt by this load shedding are textile mills which use gas for their power generating units and those industries where natural gas is used as raw material. Mian Zahid Hussain, a former chairman of Korangi Association of Trade and Industry, said the load shedding of gas is having a major impact on the production of the units located in Korangi. He said even when the gas is supplied the pressure is so little that work has to be stopped. He said there are around 15 industrial units in their areas, which were generating power by using natural gas and all of them were affected by the supply position. The units, which fire their boilers by gas were also suffering losses due to load shedding of gas, he added. Mr Hussain said the government must control the situation as soon as possible and restore normal supply of natural gas, so that the production activities could be carried out at normal pace and exports of the countries do not decline. Zubair Motiwala, former chairman of Site Association of Industry, said the load shedding of gas is playing havoc with the industrial production. Out of the 4,000 units operating in Site area, around 1,000 to 1,500 units, which depend largely on gas, are affected seriously by low supply, he added. He said the textile mills are the most affected at the moment. “Industries of our area are facing production losses by up to 25 percent,” he added. Exports may hurt: Mr Motiwala said the government should adopt such a strategy whereby the industries are not affected due to shortage of gas, otherwise the exports of the country would be badly hurt and the export target of the country would become difficult to be achieved. The Pakistan Petroleum Limited has said damage to the main purification plant has been more extensive than first thought and officials believed that repair work would take several days. Sui produces one billion cubic feet (280 million cubic meters – Should be 28 Million Cubic Metres) of gas per day, about 45 percent of the country’s total gas production. Supplies from the field have been suspended since last Tuesday after rocket attacks by tribesman damaged pipelines leading from main processing plant. Mari, Qadirpur and Kandhkot are the other main gas fields supplying 16 percent and 14 percent of the total gas in the country. Shut down at Sui has come at a time when gas demand from domestic consumers is at its peak due to winter season. With the gas utilities having domestic consumers up on the priority list, the industrial consumers have had to bear the major burden of a decline in gas supply. Meanwhile, a spokesman for SSGC claimed the company was ensuring equitable distribution of gas to its customers across cities in Sindh and Balochistan with “gas load management,” necessitated by the closure of Sui Purification Plant. A statement issued by the company said the company has successfully managed to maintain gas supply, although at reduced pressure, during peak hours as well, contrary to the speculation by certain quarters that the supply to industrial and power sector had been suspended altogether. It said all the industrial units will continue to receive their regular supply of natural gas.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 18 2005, 03:29 PM

We saw 71 rocket attacks against gas installations in Balochistan in 2004, and there was no rape incident to trigger them. Just this month we’ve seen close to 170 rocket attacks in addition to the first-time use of automatic weapons and the unsuccessful attempt to seize and occupy government buildings. Someone is using the unfortunate and condemnable rape incident for other goals.
And the fools want the Natural Gas Pipe Line from Iran to India to pass via the Land of the Impure.

Posted by: Mudy Jan 19 2005, 09:39 AM

ONGC to build refinery in Ecuador Bhagyashree Pande/ New Delhi ONGC has evinced interest in building a $ 2.5 billion refinery in Ecuador and will also bid for acquiring oil and gas exploration blocks in the Latin American country. "ONGC has shown interest in constructing 2,00,000 barrels per day refinery in Ecuador which will cost 2.5 billion dollars," Ecuador's Energy Minister Eduardo Lopez Robayo said on the sidelines of Petrotech 2005 conference. Lopez said his country had faith in ONGC's technical and financial capability but added that the Indian state-run firm will have to bid for the project for which Japanese, Chinese and Norwegian companies were also in fray. ONGC has also evinced interest in bidding for some of the eleven oil and gas exploration blocks Ecuador is putting up for auction in May, he said

Posted by: Naresh Jan 19 2005, 12:32 PM

Just received the following Article from the Indian Express by E-Mail : NEW DELHI, JANUARY 13: Within a week of India sealing a $40 bn LNG deal with Iran, Bangladesh today agreed to make space for a $1 bn 290-km gas pipeline that will run from Myanmar all the way to Kolkata. The breakthrough was achieved in a tripartite meeting between Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar, Myanmar’s Minister for Energy Brig Gen Lun Thi and Bangladesh State Minister for Energy and Mineral Resources A K M Mosharraf Hossain in Yangon. As part of the agreement, Bangladesh, which had sought the right to access hydro-electricity from Nepal and Bhutan through Indian territory and a corridor to supply commodities to these countries, has reserved the right to inject and siphon off gas from the pipeline. Briefing reporters from Yangon, Aiyar said that while Bangladesh can transit its own gas, India can use the line to move gas from North East to West Bengal and Bihar. Bangladesh will earn about $125 million annually as transit fee of the pipeline, which will run though Arakan in Myanmar, Mizoram and Tripura before crossing Bangladesh to Kolkata. India will also ‘‘favourably’’ examine Bangladesh’s request for transit right to Bhutan and Nepal, Aiyar said. user posted image According to Aiyar, ‘‘it is a triumph because for the first time in 30 years, Bangladesh has agreed to its territory being used for transport of any commodity.’’ Aiyar said the pipeline is one of several options being considered by India to access gas reserves at a Shwe field block in offshore Myanmar, as well as volumes that are expected to be discovered in the adjacent block. In both the blocks, OVL has 20 per cent stake and Gail has 10 per cent. South Korea’s Daewoo is the operator of both the blocks. ‘‘Some gas might come in form of compressed natural gas (CNG) in ships, which can make two round trips from Myanmar to east coast of India every day. We could also do it by putting up a liquefication plant (in Myanmar) and exporting LNG to India and other countries,’’ said Aiyar. Myanmar has huge natural gas reserves and ‘‘we are keeping all options open and neither is mutually exclusive,’’ said Aiyar. India, Bangladesh and Myanmar also agreed to form a techno-commercial committee to go into issues such as size, length, routing, pricing and quality of gas. ‘‘The route of the pipeline may be determined by mutual agreement of the three governments with a view to ensuring adequate access, maximum security and optimal economic utilisation,’’ said Aiyar. The first meeting of the committee will be held in Yangon on February 7 to prepare a draft MoU that will be signed in Dhaka by March-end or early April, Aiyar said. However, the Minister did not indicate any timeframe for the construction of the pipeline. ‘‘The pipeline construction, operation and maintenance will be taken by an international consortium,’’ said Aiyar, adding that details would be worked out by the committee. Only Indians will tolerate this “misinformation” and having their “throats slit” considered as TRIUMPH The Financial Times Article has stated that there is an option for a Sub Marine Pipe Line in the Bay of Bengal. The depth encountered will be about 200 Metres. The Bluestream Pipe Line in the Black Sea encountered a Depth of over 2,100 Metres.

Posted by: Mudy Jan 19 2005, 12:36 PM

‘‘The pipeline construction, operation and maintenance will be taken by an international consortium,’’
Any idea about companies and countries involved? or it is just a UNICOL+SHELL affair

Posted by: Naresh Jan 19 2005, 12:47 PM

Mudy, AFAIK for a Land Pipe Line there are a couple of Players i.e. Intec, Gazprom, ENI-Saipem-Snamprogetti (Now why do I think that Spaghetti Meatball combined with Caviar will be the preferred Dish?) and BHP are the main physical contractors. For Deep Sea the players are Intec and the Spaghetti Meatball Group as they are AFAIK the only ones with “Deep Sea” Pipe Laying Vessels.

Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 20 2005, 09:24 AM

Mani Shankar Aiyar, India's hyperactive petroleum minister may have achieved something that was unthinkable even a year back. India has potentially struck three solid deals of international pipelines to ensure enough of Natural Gas for the country. India plans to switch aggressively from oil to gas in power generation and in public transport. "When you look at a map you may accuse me of dreaming, but as a minister I am paid to dream," says Mr Aiyar. "We have the Bangladesh-Burma pipeline, we are looking at a pipeline from Iran that would cross Pakistan, and we want a pipeline from Turkmenistan that would cross Afghanistan and Pakistan." India currently imports 70% of its energy needs. By 2020, India will be importing 85% of the energy. There is no way India can find the crude oil or Natural Gas domestically. The switch to Natural Gas and construction of the three pipelines provides there huge resources of energy from three different directions. This will provide India a jump of 20 years to implement other alternative energy sources like Hydrogen etc. The other benefit is India’s promotion of economic prosperity and political stability in the region. Bangladesh will receive billion dollars per year as in-transit fee for hosting pipeline. “Dhaka can decide whether to feed its own gas into the Burma pipeline without triggering the old fear of creating too much of a dependency on its giant neighbour to the west. It is a "win-win-win" situation worth billions of dollars”, says Mr Aiyar. They can also transport their untapped gas from North West to Southeast using India’s Gas infrastructure and at the same time hold the option to sell the gas to India. Iran is expected strike a deal with India and Pakistan separately so that Iranian Gas can be supplied to India. Pakistan will receive $500 million every year for in-transit fee. This not provides Natural gas to India but this also paves for excellent mutually beneficial relations among the South Asian neighbors. The deal, which could be hammered out by April and the pipeline built within two years, puts an end to years of Bangladeshi prevarication over whether to sell its own substantial - but untapped - reserves to India. Under the agreement, Dhaka can decide whether to feed its own gas into the Burma pipeline without triggering the old fear of creating too much of a dependency on its giant neighbour to the west. It is a "win-win-win" situation worth billions of dollars, says Mr Aiyar. "The Bangladeshis were wondering how to bring their own gas reserves from the north-east of Bangladesh to their consumer base in the south-west - and now they can transport it with someone else's infrastructure," explains Mr Aiyar. "In addition, Bangladesh will earn transit fees on the pipeline and retain the option of selling its own gas to India via the same route." The deal has the potential to improve sharply relations between India and Bangladesh, which have frayed considerably in the last three years partly over allegations Dhaka is turning a blind eye to Islamist extremism. But the pipeline is also critical to India's energy security.

Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 21 2005, 08:37 AM I didnt know that there were talks about the Iranian pipeline passing thru Pakistan, then INDIA and then going to China. Will that make the pipeline more secure ?

Posted by: Naresh Jan 21 2005, 01:57 PM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 21 2005, 09:07 PM) I didnt know that there were talks about the Iranian pipeline passing thru Pakistan, then INDIA and then going to China. Will that make the pipeline more secure ?
rajesh-g, Sometime back MSA came up with the Idea of Siberian Oil by a Pipe Line going through to the Red Sea and then transport by Ship to India. That was bad. This is even worse. The Chinese could (I could also win the Lottery) transport Natural Gas from Iran by a Pipe Line by the following Routes : 1. Per MSA : Iran – Pakistan – India – Bingoland – Myanmar on to the Eastern Seaboard of China. This Pipe Line would Transit Four Countries and the distance from Iran / Pakistan to the Myanmar / China Border would be Four Times the distance which an Iran-India Pipe Line traverse through Pakistan. If India has to pay Pakistan USD 500 Million (despite their Additional Secretary Petroleum stating that it should be around USD 70 Million) for a Pipe Line delivering Two Billion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas per day then China would end up paying USD Two Billion Annually for the same amount of Gas delivered. 2 Billon Cubic Feet of Gas per day would be equal to 2 Million MMBTU. Thus a payment of USD 2 Billion Annually for 730 Million MMBTUs would be about USD 2.70 per MMBTU as “Transit” Cost. The total Length of this pipeline will be about 7500 Kilometres – about twice the length of the Xinjiang–Chinese Eastern Cities which cost USD 24 Billion. So you can guess the cost of MSA’s “Dream Pipe Line” I am posting the Article from the Financial Times again as it is a Subscription Site : China's West-East natural gas pipeline begins commercial operations today, according to officials involved in the project. Petrochina, the state-owned oil giant, which operates the pipeline, said yesterday it had signed agreements with 12 new customers, bringing the total number of downstream gas customers for its cross-country pipeline to 40. China's 4,000km pipeline is an ambitious undertaking to transfer natural gas from the Tarim Basin in Xinjiang province to China's eastern cities, including Shanghai. Su Shulin, a senior official with the company, said he expected the pipeline to break even this year and record a profit next year. He predicted the pipeline would be able to transmit 12bn cu m of natural gas by 2007. Xu Dingming, head of the energy bureau of the National Development and Reform Commission, estimated that natural gas accounted for 2.7 per cent of China's total energy consumption but this would increase to 10 per cent by 2020. Andy Yeh, Beijing Note : This Pipe Line was originally estimated to cost USD 20 Billion. The last “best” guesstimate was USD 24 Billion. 2. The other option would be via Pakistan + Xinjiang (am not sure if it is possible) but then again the Pipe Line cost will be Sky High. As such despite MSA’s conjuring will remain a dream. In both above cases the Chinese would be dependant on a single supplier : Iran 3. Rajesh I will laugh my head off if the Chinese arrange to collect Natural Gas from Iran-Qatar-UAE-Oman, transport it to India via a Deep Sea Pipe Line and then take it overland through India-and Myanmar. Conclusions : MSA seems to have been influenced by Kasuri (He talked about Chinese importing Oil by VSCC/ULCC sized vessels through Gwadar and then transfer the Oil to Xinjiang by Rail or a Pipe Line) Speaks volumes of Kasuri’s intelligence since Xinjiang is “full” of Oil and Natural Gas. ROTFL.gif

Posted by: Naresh Jan 22 2005, 11:44 AM

CORRECTION CHINA’S XINJIANG-EASTERN CHINESE CITIES NATURAL GAS PIPE LINE The Figure of USD 24 Billion is the cost of the Full Project. As such the Pipe Line may have cost USD 5-6 Billion. Sorry for the misleading statement.

Posted by: sridhar k Jan 22 2005, 08:03 PM

Nareshji, Looking at the map, why can't we have a subsea pipeline from Myanmar bypassing BD?

Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 22 2005, 10:57 PM

Praaji, Do you think we are getting any closer to making this decision ? Or do you think this proposal is just way out of whack to actually get implemented ? What kind of gestation period remains in this project even if MSA has his way ? What are the backout clauses (if any) under consideration ?

Posted by: Naresh Jan 23 2005, 04:33 AM

QUOTE (sridhar k @ Jan 23 2005, 08:33 AM)
Nareshji, Looking at the map, why can't we have a subsea pipeline from Myanmar bypassing BD?
sridhar K Ji, My compliments to you for having a look at the Map. Thank God somebody has! 1. The Indian Government has gone and agreed to the payment of USD 125 Million to Bangladesh in lieu of Transit dues for a Pipe Line that will carry may be One Billion Cubic Feet per Day of Natural Gas over a Distance of about 290 Kilo Metres – Bangladesh / India (Tripura) Border – Comilla – Khulna - Bangladesh / India (West Bengal) Border. The actual amount of Annual Transit Dues on the basis of One Billion Cubic feet of Natural Gas per day as per the International Norms would be : 365 X 1,000,000,000 cu ft X USD 0.46 X 290 KM / 1,000 Cu Metres x 100 KM i.e. 365 X 1,000,000,000 Cu Ft X USD 0.46 X 290 KM / 1,000 X 35.3 Cu Ft x 100 KM = USD 13,793,484.4191 Say USD Fourteen Million. In case the Myanmar-Bangladesh-India Pipe Line delivers Two Billion cubic feet of Natural Gas per day then the Annual Transit Dues would be USD 28 Million. It seems that the Indian Authorities have paid no heed to the Pakistani Additional Secretary in the Ministry of Petroleum that the Transit Dues for the Two Billion Cubic Feet a Day Pipe Line from Iran to India – over a distance of about 760 Kilometres should be USD 70 Million or so. 2. You will note that Indian Express Article has give a Figure of 290 KM in respect of the Pipe Line. Ostensibly the WHOLE PIPE LINE WOULD BE OF 290 KM. In reality the distance of 290 KM is the distance the Pipe Line will Traverse Bangladesh. The actual total distance will be approximately – From Sittwe (Akyab - 20° 09’ N 92° 54’ E ) to Kolkata - as follows : By Land Pipe Line : Sittwe (Akyab ) to Myanmar India Border = 350 KM Myanmar / India Border To India / Bangladesh Border---------------= 300 KM Distance traversed within Banglades------= 290 KM Distance from India / Bangladesh Border to Kolkata-------------------------------= -50 KM Total Length of Land Pipe Line to Kokata-= 990 KM Eventual Distance could be more as the hilly terrain in Burma and India would – in normal circumstance – not allow a “Straight Line” Pipe Line Cost of Land Pipe Line about USD 1 BILLION By Sea Pipe Line : Sittwe to Eastern Channel Light Vessel--: 550 Kilo Metres (Keeping South of the Bangladesh’s Territorial Limits) Eastern Channel Light Vessel to Kolkata : 150 Kilo Metres Total Length of Sea Pipe Line to Kolkata : 700 Kilo Metres I have taken the distance from Eastern Channel Light Vessel : 21° 04’ N to Kidderpore Docks : 22° 33’ N as a straight line and not following the meandering River (Pilotage Distance is about 220 KM). The actual Rhumb Line Distance from Akyab to Eastern Channel Light vessel is about 288 NM i.e. about 530 KM Cost of Sea Pipe Line : Should be well below USD 2 Billion which was the cost of the Sea Section of the Deep Sea Portion of the Bluestream Pipe Line whicht has TWO SEALINES i.e Pipe Lines. The Water Depths will be about 200 Metres – The Blue Stream Pipe Line in the Black Se encountered depths of over 2,000 Metres. 3. The next problem is :
As part of the agreement, Bangladesh, which had sought the right to access hydro-electricity from Nepal and Bhutan through Indian territory and a corridor to supply commodities to these countries, has reserved the right to inject and siphon off gas from the pipeline.
Firstly for accessing hydro-electricity from Nepal and Bhutan : Will India be paid the “Transit Dues” for the “Power Lines” on Indian Territory? In this respect the point arises is why should Bangladesh require to import Energy? With the huge amount of Natural Gas Reserves they can Generate cheap Electricity without having to import it. Secondly : Why should Bangladesh have the right to “inject and siphon off gas from the Pipe Line? Will they pay for the use of the Pipe Line? I hope to read members comments. P. S. : E. & O. E. P. P. S. : Can you please tell me as to how the "TABS" work when posting on this message board? Thanks.

Posted by: Naresh Jan 23 2005, 04:38 AM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 23 2005, 11:27 AM)
Praaji, Do you think we are getting any closer to making this decision ? Or do you think this proposal is just way out of whack to actually get implemented ? What kind of gestation period remains in this project even if MSA has his way ? What are the backout clauses (if any) under consideration ?
Anuj Shri, 1. It seems that GOI-MSA-NS are bent upon putting India’s Energy Imports in the hands of the Terrorist Enemy States to the East as well as the West. 2. Should take Two to Three Years to construct. 3. There will be no “Back Out Clauses”. It will be another Fiasco like the Indus Water Treaty and India’s “Confidence Building Measures” as well as the Magnanimity of the Larger Nation to the Smaller. I would rather state that it would be an act of Utter Naivety by a Utopian with heads buried in the Sand. 4. May be these Pipe Lines through TESE and TESW have been Ordered by China? After all China controls its “Underwear Friend” and can thereby throttle India at will!

Posted by: Naresh Jan 29 2005, 04:21 AM

It seems that the Pakistani Government is looking at the Deep Sea as well as the Shallow Water along with the Land Pipe Line. In addition the “considering” of a Land Pipe Line to an Iran – India Natural Gas Pipe Line via Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan is quite NOVEL – to say the least. ISLAMABAD, JAN. 28. The Pakistan Prime Minister, Shaukat Aziz, has again asserted that Islamabad would go ahead with the Iranian gas pipeline project irrespective of the Indian decision. He told a breakfast meeting on the margins of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, today that Pakistan would press ahead with the project even if India refused or was unable to join the plan. The proposed 1600 km project, envisaging supply of gas from Iran to India via Pakistan, has been hanging fire for over a decade due to fears of New Delhi over the safety and security aspects of the pipeline given the history of hostilities between India and Pakistan. In the aftermath of the April 2003 peace initiative, India has agreed to consider the project if Pakistan is willing to look at it in the context of larger economic relations. It entailed reciprocal grant of Most Favoured Nation (MFN) by Pakistan to India and opening up of the land route for transit trade. But Pakistan is insisting on treating it as a "stand alone project" on the plea that full-scale economic relations were dependent on the resolution of Kashmir. Accord delayed Pakistan had earlier announced that it intended to sign an agreement on the project with Tehran in November. But till date no such agreement has been signed. The delay could be to provide necessary time for India to reconsider its decision or due to other reasons. Mr. Aziz maintained at Davos that Pakistan had little option on import of gas. He argued that the pipeline would also bring a political dividend by helping create interdependent relations between the two nuclear neighbours. He said he had told the Indian Government: "If you come along, we would be delighted to work with you. If for some reason you don't (take part), Pakistan is going to go ahead anyway, so tell us when you're ready." The Iran-Pakistan Gas pipeline Project was conceived in 1993, which was later proposed to be extended in India. A committee co-chaired by the Pakistan Secretary, Petroleum and Natural Resources, along with the Deputy Minister of Iran National Oil Company (NIOC) has been constituted to review the progress on the project. The technical experts from both sides assist the committee. Feasibility studies There are three different routes under consideration for the Iran-India gas pipeline via deep sea, shallow water and over-land. Feasibility study for the deep sea route is being conducted by Snam Progetti of Italy, while that of overland route is being conduct by BHP of Australia. BHP has completed the phase-I of the study.The feasibility study for the shallow water route is to be conducted by GAZPROM of Russia but they have not yet started the study. Speaking at an earlier press conference, Mr. Aziz said that besides talks with Iran and Qatar, he was talking to officials in Turkmenistan as the shortest route might pass through that central Asian republic, depending on which of three construction projects was chosen.* "If all hands are on deck we could do the full project in three to five years. This project can create history and really change the energy dynamics of the region ... even the diplomatic relations and the political dimensions of the region," he said. He said he would discuss the prospects of the project when he met the Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, on the sidelines of the February 6-7 summit of the South Asian Association for Regional Cooperation (SAARC). *This reminds me of an Old Indian Movie Song, which, I would state as follows : ALLAH BACHAYE IN PAKISTANI CITI BANK WALLON SAY, ALLAH BACHAYE I say so as a Natural Gas Pipe line via Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan is not only Technically and Physically beyond the Realms of Intelligence but also Financially Ruinous as in this case India will end up paying Three Sets of Transit Dues amounting to say USD 1.5 Billion Annually in addition to such a Land Pipe Line costing over USD 6 Billion to construct. The considering of a Deep Sea and Shallow Water Pipe Lines Options proves that the Pakistani Government Authorities are not confident of the Safety and Security of their own Pipe Line through their own Territory!!!. Now only God can Save India!!!

Posted by: Naresh Jan 29 2005, 04:55 AM

Just realized “Short Cut” Aziz’s reason for taking the “Long cut” in respect of an Iran – India Land Pipe Line via Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and then Pakistan : BY-PASS BALOCHISTAN

Posted by: Viren Feb 4 2005, 01:12 PM

Paid subscription site... posting in full. Richard C. Morais, 02.14.05

Texas-style gambling on oil wells is being kept alive at an exploration company in, of all places, Edinburgh. In 1998 Royal Dutch/Shell sank a wildcat well in the desert of Rajasthan, India. The borehole came up dry--so said electrical readings from the well-logging tool. But Cairn Energy Plc., a Scottish wildcatter with a 10% stake in the leasehold, had one technician at the site who noticed oil dripping off the probe when Shell pulled it out of the well. So Cairn took on the full costs of the next two wildcat drills, in exchange for a 50% stake. In 2002 Shell sold Cairn its remaining 50% stake in Rajasthan for $7.25 million. A year ago, after sinking $100 million into the Rajasthan desert, Cairn hit the jackpot just a mile north of Shell's original well. This well tapped into a field that DeGolyer & MacNaughton, the Dallas auditor of oil reserves, estimates could yield 300 million barrels. The lesson, says William Gammell, Cairn's chief executive for the past 16 years: "It's always wrong to quit halfway through your drilling program." Maybe he was just lucky this time, but this is a company that has had a nice run of luck. Cairn's stock was worth 65 cents a share in 1992; now it's $20.50, giving this firm a market value of $3.3 billion. Small explorers normally spread their risks by taking minority positions in fields across the globe, in effect mimicking the big oil companies but on a tiny scale. They further limit their risks by taking pieces of wells in already heavily explored areas, like the North Sea or the Gulf of Mexico. But this is just a recipe for mediocrity, says Michael Watts, Cairn's exploration director: "Small companies stumble by dissipating their focus and assets." Cairn, by contrast, goes where no or little oil or gas has been found and takes 100% positions in as much acreage as possible. Gammell learned the oil business by raising capital in Edinburgh during the 1980s and sinking it into mature U.S. oil and gas fields. When he did tap gas in Pennsylvania, enough to make up for his failures, all the property around his finds was already spoken for. That frustrating experience taught him the danger of timidity. "The only edge that Cairn has had is we always look at the upside," says Gammell, 52, once a rugby star for Scotland. "Do you have enough acreage around your find? Can you run your profits?" Hence Gammell and Watts' decision a decade ago to focus on neglected India and Bangladesh, where the big oil companies had sunk only 12 wells. Watts, a student of South Asia's oil history, recalled that oil seeps and "eternal flames" in the region were so common that locals used to cook their food by lighting the ground. So Cairn took its first 100% stake in a block offshore of Bangladesh where few had explored. Its find there, the Sangu gas field, has so far been a $500 million gusher. Gammell proudly compares Cairn's 100% stake in the 1,900-square-mile Rajasthan leasehold to the position of wildcatters "back in West Texas during the 1920s" (though an effective royalty due ONGC, India's state oil company, will dilute Cairn's stake to 70%). Besides dry holes, doesn't this go-for-broke strategy in developing nations entail a fair amount of political risk? No, says Watts, since Cairn's willingness to invest in the Asian subcontinent when bigger firms sniffed at the prospects has built invaluable goodwill with Indian politicians. Cairn is the largest foreign-owned oil producer in India. After the Indian government concludes its U.S. road show in late January--it's auctioning off the next tranche of oil exploration leases--rival wildcatters are likely to pile in. But Cairn's studiously cultivated contacts will help it. In late 1999, for example, Cairn spent $4 million increasing its stake from 45% to 75% in a property 17 miles off the west coast of India. Cairn's read of 2-D seismic surveys suggested there were real prospects below the surface, but securing a rig in the open market would have taken a minimum of nine months and involved costly transport from Dubai or Singapore. Gammell put a call in to his friends at ONGC, and within the month he had his rig, a loaner from the state company. Weeks later Cairn tapped a significant gas field. Gammell's adroit political touch has a history. His father was a founder of Ivory & Sime, a Scottish investment fund, and in the 1950s put some of it into George Bush Sr.'s oil firm, Bush-Overbey, crucially backing the future U.S. president in a dispute with New York investors. The current President Bush summered as a boy on the Gammells' Scottish farm and attended Bill Gammell's wedding. Gammell stayed at the Bushes' Kennebunkport compound and invested in George W.'s oil company in the 1980s. There's more: Gammell attended Fettes College, an elite Scottish boarding school, where his friend and debating partner was Tony Blair. The British prime minister was at the ceremony opening Cairn's Edinburgh headquarters in 1997. Gammell will need all his political instincts to steer through the company's next strategic risk. Over the last few years Cairn has accumulated a 14,000-square-mile block of properties in Nepal and in India near the Nepalese border. Geologically the territory is reminiscent of western Canada, but the political forces include Maoist rebels. Gammell and Watts need to be more careful about how they sell the Cairn story in the future. Richard Curling, head of small caps at Deutsche Asset Management, cut his Cairn holding from 18% to 6% before a mid-December dip in the stock occasioned by a threat of higher Indian taxes. Cairn, he says, is in danger of looking like the hot fund manager who, because he got it right with one stock, is tempted to think "he can walk on water." Oil and water--bad mix.

Posted by: Naresh Feb 4 2005, 05:36 PM QUETTA: A growing insurgency in Balochistan threatens to disrupt plans for a transnational pipeline that would deliver natural gas from Iran to Pakistan and India, Wall Street Journal reported on Friday. The proposed $4 billion pipeline, a key priority for the federal government, will pass through a large swatch of the troubled province, which borders Iran and Afghanistan. Armed Baloch nationalists have been stepping up attacks on Pakistani government targets in recent weeks. The natural-gas project holds the promise of big economic and political dividends for Islamabad and New Delhi. Pakistani Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, in an interview last week, said he hoped cooperation on the project would help ease tension with India over issues such as Kashmir, while shoring up future energy supplies for both countries. Pakistan will net an estimated $500 million in annual fees alone from the project for letting the pipeline through its territory. And the pipeline will give India access to some of Iran’s huge natural-gas reserves as New Delhi attempts to switch energy consumption from expensive foreign oil to cheaper natural gas wherever it can. “It’s more abundantly available,” WSJ quoted Indian Petroleum Minister Mani Shanker Aiyar as saying in a recent interview. “We are only one country away from [Iran], which has [some of] the largest deposits in the world.” But the escalating political violence in Balochistan could derail — or at least delay — the project before it even gets under way. “In the present situation, one cannot guarantee the safeguard of the pipeline,” said a Pakistani expert involved in the feasibility study for the project. Islamabad is beefing up its military presence in the province to meet the threat, with Pakistani military police setting up checkpoints and paramilitary troops patrolling the streets of Quetta, the provincial capital. The measures followed a spate of attacks in recent weeks by tribal insurgents on vital economic installations, government buildings and security forces. A shadowy organization calling itself the Baloch Liberation Army has claimed responsibility for the attacks. Pakistani officials believe the insurgents are led by several traditional Baloch tribal chiefs, whose followers were involved in a four-year rebellion against Islamabad in the 1970s. Some of the insurgents are demanding full autonomy for Balochistan, while others want outright independence from Pakistan, officials said. Until recently, the government has contended the BLA didn’t present a major security threat, but some officials now concede the situation is deteriorating. “They are well armed and well trained in guerrilla war,” WSJ quoted a senior Pakistani security official as saying. “The situation is serious.” Islamabad last week sent hundreds of fresh troops to guard the Sui gas-field installations and other key potential targets, but the insurgents retaliated with more attacks, destroying railway tracks and cutting the electricity supply to Quetta for two days. In a statement issued last month, a spokesman for the BLA vowed to continue its struggle. Political unrest has been simmering for many years in Balochistan, whose long coastline on the Arabian Sea makes it strategically important in Southwest Asia. Baloch nationalists are unhappy with Islamabad’s control of the province’s gas fields and other natural resources. They demand a greater share of the central government’s tax and other revenues, and a much bigger proportion of gas revenues in particular. Currently, the province receives just 12.5% of what the gas would fetch at 1952 prices, or a tiny fraction of what it is worth now. The nationalists are also angry over the construction of a new deep-water port in Gwadar, about 1,000 kilometres south of Quetta. They fear that the project, being developed with the help of China, will lead to a massive influx of outside workers, reducing the indigenous Baloch population to a minority in its home province. “This is a conspiracy to control our resources and land,” said Habib Jalib, a Baloch nationalist leader, who sees the pipeline and port projects as a means for Islamabad to assert its control over the province. Last year, six Chinese workers were killed in a bomb attack in Gwadar. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but the government suspects BLA involvement. “People feel that they won’t get their rights through democratic and legal means,” WSJ quoted Akhtar Mengal, president of the Balochistan National Party, as saying. Although pipeline negotiations between India and Pakistan are likely to take some time to conclude, Islamabad officials contend that Pakistan’s own energy needs are enough to get the pipeline project started. Pakistan’s economy is projected to grow 6% to 7% annually over the next five years, fueling domestic demand for gas. Pakistan faces an estimated shortfall of 200 million cubic feet of gas per day by 2010, increasing to 1.4 billion cubic feet per day by 2015 and 2.7 billion cubic feet per day by 2020. Pakistan needs India to build a large Pipe Line via Pakistan so that it can “Tap” the Pipe Line for small quantities of 200 Million up to One Billion Cubic Feet a Day as a “small” Pipe Line will be uneconomical. Guidance : a 42” Pipe Line from Iran to India via Pakistan would cost USD 4.16 Billion. A 12” Pipe Line from Iran to Pakistan would cost USD 3 Billion

Posted by: Naresh Feb 5 2005, 12:21 PM TEHRAN: Iran and Pakistan may not wait for an uncertain India to join a deal to buy Iranian gas via a trans-Pakistan pipeline. Iran's deputy oil minister for international affairs Hadi Nejad-Hosseinian said on Saturday that Iran and Pakistan are ready to separately sign a deal for Iranian gas exports, as the Indians are still doubting on a pipeline supply via Pakistan. Talks on setting up a pipeline from Iran to India have still not borne fruit due to territorial conflict between India and Pakistan. Despite repeated assurances from Pakistan, India hesitates to give a go-ahead to the deal. I would love to see The Land of the Impure using a Pipe Line and import 200 Million cubic feet of Natural Gas per Day

Posted by: Naresh Feb 9 2005, 09:53 AM : NEW DELHI, Feb 09: Indian Cabinet today gave green signal to Iran, Pakistan and India gas pipeline and made its Petroleum Ministry nodal agency for Iran gas pipeline project and is expected to submit blueprint. The Cabinet also approved proposals to lay pipelines to transport natural gas from Turkmenistan and Myanmar. While Iran pipeline is proposed to pass through Pakistan, Turkmenistan pipeline will run through Afghanistan and Pakistan. Myanmar-India pipeline will transit through Bangladesh.

Posted by: Mudy Feb 9 2005, 01:32 PM


Aiyar gets green signal for gas pipeline projects Pioneer News Service/ New Delhi In a major policy move, the Cabinet on Wednesday gave the go-ahead on negotiations with Iran, Pakistan, Bangladesh and other countries for import of natural gas through pipelines. This is expected to pave the way for the Iran-Pak-India gas pipeline, being discussed for a long time now. Overlooking the claims of the External Affairs Ministry, the Cabinet also authorised the Petroleum Ministry to act as the nodal agency for the Iran gas pipeline project. After the meeting, Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar said, "this is a very significant decision because it gives energy security to the country,'' adding, "the Cabinet decision greatly increases my comfort as well as the comfort level of our partners". "We could purchase up to 66 million standard cubic metres of gas through this pipeline from Iran. Especially since even Pakistan has upped its demand for gas from Iran to 50 million standard cubic metres," Mr Aiyar stated. Proposals to lay pipelines for transportation of natural gas from Turkmenistan and Myanmar too were accorded approval. While it is proposed that the Iran pipeline would pass through Pakistan, the Turkmenistan pipeline will be laid through Afghanistan and then Pakistan. The Myanmar-India pipeline would transit through Bangladesh. The three countries have in principle agreed on a $1.1-billion, 290-km trunkline to transport gas found in offshore Myanmar, where Indian firms are partnering Korean companies in exploration, to eastern India via Bangladesh. Mr Aiyar said the exact figures as to how much gas we'll get will be determined after the talks with these countries. The Minister said the country's import requirement will be 85 per cent of total oil demand by 2025. India is looking to step up production considerably under NELP V, he added. He hoped that Pakistan would now take up his October proposal for a "conversation without commitment on cooperation in hydrocarbon sector and the Iran-India gas pipeline through Pakistan". The Cabinet decision comes days after Pakistan Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz announced in Davos that his country would go ahead with the Iran pipeline, irrespective of whether India made up its mind on participation. The $4.5-billion pipeline would carry gas from Iran's giant South Pars field, and fill a huge supply gap in India. In that case, 475 miles of the pipeline will pass through troubled Baluchistan in southern Pakistan. Pakistan is keen on the project because it would have access to about a third of the gas and also earn a possible $600 million a year in transit fees if the pipeline extends to India.

Posted by: Naresh Feb 10 2005, 02:52 PM furious.gif ISLAMABAD - India has de-linked its demand for MFN status by Pakistan with transnational Pak-Iran and India gas pipeline by allowing its Ministry of Petroleum to hold talks on this billion of dollars mega project, official sources told The Nation here on Thursday. They said India had to de-link MFN status issue with that gas pipeline project and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz was set to start negotiations with Tehran on the issue during his upcoming visit to Iran, which is going to take place by end of this month. “Earlier, India had linked MFN status from Pakistan along with pressing Islamabad to purchase diesel from it before starting negotiations on the gas pipeline but now New Delhi finally decided to grant its nod on the project,” a close aide of the Prime Minister said. Shaukat Aziz had discussed the idea of gas pipeline during his last visit to India but India linked it with getting MFN status from Islamabad. The PM refused to accept linkage between these two issues by saying that “Pakistan is giving opportunity to India for fulfilling its needs and it will not accept any condition in this regard,” the official said while referring Aziz’s reply to his Indian counterpart. He said that during Shaukat Aziz last visit to India, the Indian side linked the gas pipeline project with granting MFN status. The Prime Minister had clearly apprised the Indian high-ups that Pakistan wanted to deal these two issues separately and after passing around three months the Indian side accepted Islamabad’s point of view in this regard,” he added. The official confirmed that Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz would certainly discuss the issue of billions dollars gas pipeline project during his upcoming visit to Tehran which was expected around February 24 and 25, 2005. India’s exports to Pakistan stood at 374 million dollars per annum while Pakistan’s exports to New Delhi were 92 million dollars per annum and the bilateral trade between the two countries was not in the range of one billion dollar. He said that the Indian side pressed upon Islamabad to grant it MFN status before starting negotiation on gas project as New Delhi decision-makers viewed that Pakistan would get benefit out of this mega project. Pakistan expects to get US $ 600 million as royalty for using its soil per annum after finalising the gas pipeline. Pakistan always took stance to de-link the issue of granting MFN status to India with the gas pipeline project as Islamabad sees no link between these two issues. Islamabad had very clearly told New Delhi that without analysing tariff and non-tariff barriers it could not take abrupt decision on this subject, which paved the way for establishment of joint study group to analyse trade regimes of both the countries. However, the sources said Pakistan linked the acceptance of Indian demand about the MFN status to the sustained political dialogue to resolve all outstanding issues including the core issue of Kashmir— a condition which Islamabad is likely to abide by in future as well. Pakistan’s trade managers have proposed the government to adopt the strategy of ‘gradual movement’ towards increasing trade ties with India. The sources said that the trade volume was highly concentrated in favour of India since 2001 despite New Delhi’s granted MFN status to Islamabad. “Pakistan wants adoption of balanced approach but it cannot let India’s goods flooding into our markets in abrupt manner,” the official said. According to some estimates, the trade through unofficial channels between the two countries stood at around more than one billion dollars and smugglers were getting benefits due to restrictive regimes imposed by both countries at each other products. The official said that Pakistan would ask Indian side to remove various type of tariff and non tariff barriers (NTBs) for moving ahead in the desired directions. India had already granted MFN status to Pakistan but Islamabad was reluctant to reciprocate it due to variety of reasons. In terms of trade, New Delhi had imposed certain barriers to restrict Pakistani products for capturing its markets. Currently, India is the only country with which Pakistan is conducting trade on the basis of positive list rather than negative list.

Posted by: Viren Feb 11 2005, 08:32 AM

India China oil Listen to this story The price of oil is down from record highs in November, but scarcity always remains an issue. Now, countries like India and China are teaming up to lock down new oil markets for themselves. Marketplace's Miranda Kennedy reports

Posted by: Naresh Feb 11 2005, 04:35 PM

DERA GHAZI KHAN – Unidentified terrorists blew up an oil pipeline on Friday morning in Dera Ghazi Khan causing immediate suspension of oil to the upcountry. A powerful bomb was used to blow up the oil pipeline, which runs from Keamari (Karachi) to the upcountry. A big rupture was occurred in the pipeline near village Laddhiwala in Dera Ghazi Khan, resultantly thousands of litres of oil, worth millions of rupees, dampened the agriculture land near the pipeline . Talking to The Nation on phone, DPO Dera Ghazi Khan Salman Chaudhry said that the PARCO has closed the main valve at Fazilpur, some 55 kms from the site of the blast. Salman Chaudhry also visited the site along with DSP Ch Bashir Ahmed and SHO Kot Chhutta Munawar Khan Buzdar. He said that the people of the area and volunteers have taken precautionary measures so that it could not catch fire. This was the second bomb blast within a week which exploded in Dera Ghazi Khan. The pipeline supplies oil to Karachi from PARCO refinery in Gujrat Town of Muzaffargarh. It was the fourth bomb blast which took place in this district within a month. A heavy contingent of the police reached the spot and cordoned off the entire area. A civil defence officer also rushed to the blast site to collect evidence.

Posted by: Mudy Feb 12 2005, 03:38 PM

They are learning from Iraq, How to screw country economy? Till now naxal of India are not touching oil pipelines in India.

Posted by: Viren Feb 12 2005, 10:11 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Feb 12 2005, 06:38 PM)
Till now naxal of India are not touching oil pipelines in India.
They don't have to. The Indian raising fund in UK for Chinese causes smack in middle of the '62 China war is the currently holding the Petroleum portfolio.

Posted by: Naresh Feb 13 2005, 01:21 PM SEC-PIPELINE-EXPLOSION ISLAMABAD, Feb 13 (KUNA) -- Some unknown miscreants Sunday night blew up state-run gas pipeline in the eastern Pakistani province of Punjab, disrupting gas supply to domestic and commercial users, officials said. A 12-inch diameter gas pipelines was blown up third time near Lahore, 370 kilometers South of Islamabad, Deputy Managing Director of State-run Gas Company, Azam Khan told KUNA. He said due to the explosion, gas supply to the Lahore city and its adjoining Mureedkae town has been partially suspended, whereas, he added, supply to about thirteen factories has been completely suspended. Terming the incident as a terrorist activity, Azam said, Baluch nationalists are believed to be behind it. He said cause of the explosion is not known. He said repair work has been started and hoped supply would be fully restored in the next three to four hours. In a related development, Baluch nationalists fired at least five rockets at security forces checkpoints in the Kohlu district of troubled southwestern Baluchistan province, said a police official. However, he added, there was no human or material loss reported. Baluch nationalists have been carrying out attacks on security personnel and stat-run gas pipelines frequently, to pressurize government to increase their royalties for the natural resources extracted from their lands. (end) amn.

Posted by: Mudy Feb 13 2005, 03:34 PM

Feb. 14 (Bloomberg) -- Liquefied natural gas producers including Royal Dutch/Shell Group and Exxon Mobil Corp. may double sales to India by 2007 as economic growth boosts demand for the fuel in Asia's third-biggest energy market. Sales may rise to 10 million tons a year, worth about $2.2 billion, over the next three years, according to Petronet LNG Ltd., India's sole LNG importer, and Shell, which plans to start up a rival terminal by April. India is raising gas imports to fuel an economy that grew 8.5 percent last year, the fastest pace since 1989. The country may build as many as five new LNG terminals in the next decade, according to Petronet, increasing competition with China, which plans seven import terminals to meet its own energy shortage. ``We have orders for the entire 5 million tons of production and there's appetite to absorb five times more,'' Petronet's Managing Director Suresh Mathur said in an interview on Feb. 9. ``LNG will have a dominant share of India's gas supplies.'' Petronet began selling the fuel in April. Qatar's RasGas Co., partly owned by Exxon Mobil, plans to increase annual sales to Petronet LNG to 7.5 million tons a year from 5 million tons a year, Mathur said. Shell plans to start importing 5 million tons a year through its terminal by April, it said last month. India wants natural gas to account for a fifth of its energy usage by 2025, from 9 percent now, to reduce pollution. India's gas production of 74 million cubic meters a day -- equal to about 32 million tons of LNG a year -- lags potential demand of 120 million cubic meters a year, the government has said. Consumption may rise if more factories switch to gas because of near-record oil and coal prices, analysts said. Price ``India's gas demand is far higher than what the government anticipates,'' R.K. Pachauri, director at New Delhi-based Tata Energy Research Institute, said. ``Gas will be the fuel of the decade for the country.'' Steel Authority of India Ltd., the nation's biggest steel producer, last week said it will use 3.56 million cubic meters a day of gas -- equal to about 940,000 tons of LNG a year -- starting next year as part of a plan to lower coal purchases by one million tons a year. National Thermal Power Corp., which generates a fifth of India's electricity, will use 3 million tons of natural gas to fire 2,600 megawatts of new capacity it plans to add by 2007. The pace of the gas market's development may depend on the price of the fuel. Indian Farmers Fertilizer Co., the nation's largest state-owned producer, has said it won't pay more than $3.5 per million British thermal units for the fuel, a third less than the $5.5 paid by users in Japan at present. Petronet LNG charges $4.40 for its gas. ``Indian buyers continue to want prices that are lower than world rates,'' said Andy Flower, an LNG consultant based in Surrey, England. ``There's a lot of demand from the U.S., China and Europe, which means LNG prices will remain tight. Matching rates charged by Petronet may be difficult.'' Market Entry Competition from Iran and local gas producers that pipe the fuel to users without the cost of liquefying it may persuade suppliers to keep prices low to gain entry to the market. Reliance Industries Ltd., which made the world's biggest gas discovery of 2002, has agreed to sell 3 million tons of the fuel to National Thermal at $2.97 per million British thermal units starting in 2007. Indian Oil Corp. and GAIL (India) Ltd., two of the nation's biggest state-owned energy companies, plan to import 7.5 million tons of LNG from Iran for 25 years starting 2009. Iran has the world's second-largest gas reserves after Russia. ``There's a window of opportunity for LNG to secure market share before local gas is brought to market,'' said Praveen Martis, an energy analyst at the U.K.'s Wood Mackenzie Consultants Ltd. RasGas has said it will cut the price it charges Petronet if consumers get better rates from competing LNG suppliers. Meantime, potential gas buyers aren't waiting for the piped gas to come to market, Petronet's Mathur said. Utilities and factories are switching to gas from naphtha, which is more expensive, he said. Four percent of the nation's 107,972 megawatts of generating capacity runs on naphtha. ``LNG is costlier than local gas but is at least 40 percent cheaper than naphtha and other liquid fuels,'' Mathur said. ``People have begun to realize that.''

Posted by: Mudy Feb 22 2005, 10:17 AM

India and Russia are to work together in a series of energy deals, part of a pact which could see India invest up to $20bn in oil and gas projects. On the agenda are oil and gas extraction as well as transportation deals, to be led by Russian energy giant Gazprom and India's ONGC.

Posted by: Naresh Feb 23 2005, 09:01 AM

Received by E-Mail : Article is from the Printed Edition of The Economic Times of 16-02-2005 – Page 12 - Presently not available in the Web Edition ENERGY : WHAT IS SECURITY Since war risk is small, it may be worth taking a small risk on the pipelines for an optimistic but possible peace gain. But Swaminathan S Anklesaria Aiyar says he would not call it energy security THE Cabinet has given the nod to the petroleum minister to negotiate two gas pipelines through Pakistan, one from Iran and one from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan and Pakistan. In doing so the prime minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, has set aside conventional security objections from the defence ministry and intelligence services. Since India’s energy needs will quadruple in the next 20 years, Dr Singh agrees with the petroleum minister that energy security merits priority over conventional security. India is negotiating a third pipeline from Myanmar. This will also carry gas from Tripura and possibly Bangladesh. These dramatic developments have been widely welcomed in the name of energy security. But what exactly is energy security? It appears to me that the pipelines represent not security at all but a deliberate gamble with insecurity in the hope of achieving wider diplomatic gains. The gamble may succeed, but that is different from security. Security generally means providing safety at additional cost. It usually means paying extra to guard against possible threats. A secure but costly form of importing energy would be liquefied natural gas (LNG), delivered by ship.? The seas are international waters. The Indian navy (and navies of rich countries) will ensure open seas. Even Turkmen gas could be piped down to the Iranian coast and liquefied. Pipelines are less secure A deep-water pipeline in international waters is relatively secure (and relatively costly). A cheaper pipeline in shallow waters will pass through the exclusive economic zone of countries, and so security will require credible national guarantees. Such guarantees can be abrogated in times of hostilities. Onshore pipelines are even more insecure : they can be blown up by militants. This already happens in Assam and Baluchistan, and will happen in Afghanistan too. Onshore gas pipelines through Pakistan may be the cheapest form of transporting gas from Iran and Turkmenistan. But cheapness is not security as conventionally understood. There are two unconventional security arguments to prefer pipelines over LNG. One is that conventional security objections are overblown, and can be overcome by international consortium for non-supply. The second is that pipelines will bind the countries through close economic ties, improving relations and ultimately making hostilities unthinkable. This is not unlike the 1950s plan to create a European Economic Community to bind together Germany and France, and thus end world wars. International consortia to supply gas can have multinationals, India, Pakistan and supply countries as partners. Any disruption by Pakistan will mean not merely a loss of transit fees (probably USD 70 Million a year) but a loss of credibility among all foreign investors. Possibly the consortium can obtain insurance (at heavy cost) against disruptions. Disruptions by jehadis can be repaired in a few days. The risk can be overcome by creating storage (at high cost) for, say, 15 days. When all the costs are put together, piped gas may not be cheaper than LNG. Transit fees as high as USD 700 Million will make the pipeline uneconomic : USD 70 Million looks realistic. Such clauses could ensure reliable supply in normal times. But not if there is war. CAN the pipelines bind two countries so strongly that war will become unthinkable, just as between Germany and France? This suggestion is quite a stretch. It is a gamble that invites short-term insecurity in the hope of creating long-term security. Pipelines alone cannot create a close economic relationship. If the pipelines are a part of a much greater coming together in trade and industry, that might just work. Yet I offer two reasons for caution. First, India and Pakistan were economically integrated before 1947, and continued to have almost normal economic relations until 1965. Indian industrialist owned scores of factories in Pakistan. My father, a chartered accountant based in Delhi, often visited Pakistan to audit books there. Yet this togetherness did not prevent the war of 1965, which ended economic relations. The second example I will give is from Bangladesh. India helped liberate Bangladesh in 1971, creating rapturous vision of two economic and security partners forever. India gave much aid, trade was normalised. Alas, the honeymoon was short. Jehadis now make it unsafe for Dr Manmohan Singh to even visit Dhaka. In sum, the grand vision of friendship through economic integration is a gamble. But it is not a very dangerous gamble, and may succeed. New Indo-Pak wars are possible, but extremely unlikely. Three wars over Kashmir have proved that war achieves nothing. And nuclear bombs are powerful deterrents (Kargil was a mere border incident). Since war risk is small, it may be worth taking a small risk for an optimistic but possible peace gain, But I would not call it energy security. An extension of the pipeline to China, just suggested by the petroleum minister, would greatly increase security. Pakistan could not cut off supply to India without cutting it off to China. Whether China wants such a long pipeline through so many countries remains to be seen. Meanwhile, the cheapest and most secure option could be the one I have repeatedly highlighted in the past. Fertilisers and power constitute 80% of our gas use. So let us build fertilisers and power plants in the Gulf using ultra-cheap gas there. Ship the fertilisers, and transmit the power to India through submarine cable. Nobody has built such a long submarine power cable, but shorter ones have been built. We need a technical study to establish whether this can be the cheapest, most secure option. E & O E Comments : 1. Pakistan is an unsafe country. No amount of “Transit Dues” can change the “Jehadi Mind”. If not today then tomorrow or the next year. A war may not be imminent but a Pipe Line being blown up is on the cards. 2. The Bangladesh example should be a Life-time Lesson to the Indian government, Policy Makers and Intelligentsia. 3. China will never accept a Pipe Line (a) though Four Countries and pay USD Four Million in Transit dues basis (b) Pakistan insisting on USD 700 Million as Annual dues on the basis of Two Billion Cubic Feet per day. 4. Putting up Fertiliser and Power Plants will (a) make India dependant on an Individual Country (b) It would not provide any employment to Indians. It is just like buying refined petroleum products instead of building Oil Refineries in India. I personally think that Mr. Aiyar is basically advising against a Land Pipe Line through Pakistan but is unable to say so by calling a spade a “spade” and not an “agricultural implement used for digging the earth” due to obvious constraints. Import of LNG can be from more than Twelve Sources. A Land Pipe Line with only “A One Country Input” would make India dependant not only on the “ONE” Country of supply but also dependant on the “goodwill” of the transiting country. Forum Members views requested

Posted by: Mudy Feb 23 2005, 03:00 PM

Pipelines or pipe dreams G Parthasarathy New Delhi has indulged in two notable flip flops in its relations with Pakistan in recent days. After initially insisting that passports would be required for travel across the LOC in the proposed Srinagar-Muzaffarabad bus service, we backtracked on this demand when Mr Natwar Singh visited Islamabad last week. The Government had earlier agreed to drop its insistence on linking progress on the proposed Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline with trade and transit concessions from Pakistan. The Petroleum Ministry was authorised to proceed with proposals for pipelines to India from Iran, from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan and Pakistan and also from Myanmar through Bangladesh. The insistence on passports to travel from Srinagar to Muzaffarabad was illogical, as we regard the whole of Jammu & Kashmir as an integral part of India. One does not require passports to travel within his own country. But questions still remain on our newfound haste to base our energy security on pipelines through some politically volatile and not-too-friendly countries. On February 15, Mr Natwar Singh stated in Islamabad: "We have now agreed to consider a pipeline through Pakistan subject to satisfaction of our concerns related to security and assured supplies." What are the "concerns" he alluded to? Less than a decade ago our High Commissioner Satish Chandra asked Pakistan's then President Farookh Leghari what guarantees he could give that Pakistan would not halt energy supplies to India if we agreed to the proposed Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline. Mr Leghari blandly told Mr Chandra that as India-Pakistan conflicts had never lasted beyond a few weeks supplies would, at best be interrupted by Pakistan for a few weeks! The other "concern" in New Delhi is that the proposed pipeline would traverse through around 750 km of the Baluchistan - a province that has been in turmoil ever since it was forcibly taken over by the Pakistan army in 1948. The turmoil in Baluchistan manifested itself dramatically on January 11, 2005, when Bugti tribesmen and the secretive Baluchistan Liberation Army (BLA) attacked Pakistan's largest gas producing plant in Sui that accounts for 45 per cent of the country's gas production. 430 rockets and 60 mortar rounds were fired at the Sui gas plant. Even after thousands of troops were rushed to the Sui area, the protests continued. The attack on Sui was followed by mortar and rocket attacks on electricity transmission lines, railway tracks and telephone communication networks. After these attacks, steel, fertiliser and electrical plants were forced to curtail production. Domestic consumers in cities like Karachi had supplies cut for over twelve hours a day. While General Musharraf initially warned the Baluchis of severe military action, wiser counsels appear to have prevailed. A Parliamentary Committee headed by Senator Wasim Sajjad has been in touch with Baluchi leaders to consider their demands including greater autonomy, the end of army dominance of the province and greater royalty from exploitation of the province's gas and mineral resources. But given the Pakistan army's rapacious appetite for acquiring cantonment lands and wielding a monopoly of power throughout the country, it remains to be seen how legitimate Baluchi aspirations will be fulfilled. If the Baluchis can manifest their discontent by blowing up Pakistani pipelines and communication networks they can hardly be expected to have any qualms about dealing similarly with pipelines headed towards India. Added to this is the fact that even the CIA has indicated not too long ago that unless Pakistan mends its ways and ends its indulgence of jihadis it is entirely possible that by 2015 the writ of its Federal Government will be confined to Punjab and few urban hubs like Karachi. New Delhi has rightly indicated that it will deal only with Iran on issues like prices, guarantees of assured supplies and penalties for non-fulfillment of contractual obligations. General Musharraf initially appeared to have rather exaggerated expectations of receiving royalties of over $500 million annually as transit fees. Ifitqar Rashid Ali, Additional Secretary in Pakistan's Ministry of Petroleum, recently confirmed that contrary to popular expectations, Pakistan could expect transit fees of around $70 to $80 million annually. (When the Iranians finish negotiating with the Pakistanis the amount will probably be less.) Mr Ali added that Pakistan's hopes of a pipeline from Qatar had been found to be uneconomical and that the prospects of gas from Turkmenistan via Afghanistan are uncertain, because of the volatile security situation in Afghanistan and the non-availability of certification of the Daulatabad gas fields in Turkmenistan. There are also indications that Moscow wants Turkmen gas pumped through its pipeline network and not Southwards. It thus appears that despite unwarranted optimism in Delhi, there are still serious uncertainties about getting gas from Central Asia via Afghanistan and Pakistan. Pakistan is itself soon going to need to import gas for its domestic needs. It is known that Iran would have little interest in constructing a pipeline just to meet Pakistan's needs. Hence Pakistan's keenness to have the pipeline project extended to India even though the transit fees that it will actually get will be far below its initial expectations. India has secured a 30 per cent equity participation in the exploration of gas off the Myanmar coast. While several options are available to transport this gas to India, we seem to be focusing primary attention on a pipeline through around 290 km of Bangladesh territory. Bangladesh has demanded that India should give transit rights to Bhutan and Nepal, facilitate electricity supplies from these countries and also grant unilateral trade concessions to enable it to balance its trade deficit with India, before it considers the Indian proposal for a pipeline through its territory. Its Minister of State for Energy AKM Mosharraf Hossain proclaimed: "If India does not allow these, we shall not sign any tripartite agreement (on a gas pipeline)." Bangladesh, of course, refuses to grant road and rail transit rights across its soil for India. It also makes no demands on China to reduce its huge trade deficit as it does with India. It is strange that India is willing to consider all these demands when the Khaleda Zia Government denies its citizens are being virtually facilitated to illegally cross into India and actively provides support to almost every insurgent group in our northeast. It appears that the proposals for pipelines are being processed without due consideration of their security and foreign policy implications. Were these proposals studied by the National Security Advisory Board and the National Security Council before a final decision was taken by the Cabinet? While we are actively pursuing projects for Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) from Iran, have we devised arrangements to deal with disruptions in supplies through Pakistan, other than some limited storage facilities in Gujarat? Have we carried out a detailed study of how Bangladesh is saddled with uneconomic contractual obligations with Western oil companies and may soon have little option but to market its gas in India if its gas enterprises are to avoid going bankrupt? Why should we not examine options like LNG, CNG or undersea pipelines for delivery near Haldia from offshore gas fields in Myanmar, instead of pandering to Bangladesh? Such LNG terminals would assist economic development in West Bengal. Finally, the suggestion made by Swaminathan A Aiyar, that the best balance between security and costs would perhaps be achieved by constructing fertiliser plants in Persian Gulf countries endowed with immense gas resources, also needs to be considered seriously. Flip flops and decision making marked by overzealousness and haste are not entirely desirable in pipeline projects

Posted by: Mudy Feb 23 2005, 03:07 PM

It appears to me that the pipelines represent not security at all but a deliberate gamble with insecurity in the hope of achieving wider diplomatic gains. The gamble may succeed, but that is different from security. Security generally means providing safety at additional cost. It usually means paying extra to guard against possible threats
I completely agree. We can't trust Pakistan. India should not support terrorism by funding Pakistan in form of $500 million annually as transit fees. Pakistan can't secure their own pipes how they can even guarantee uninterrupted service. India should reduce dependency on fossil energy. It is complete stupidity of Indian politicians to even think about Paki Bhai-bhai equation will increase.

Posted by: Naresh Feb 23 2005, 04:54 PM

Mudy, Have received the following by E-Mail. Regret the Economic Times is not posting these Article in their Web Edition : Iran - Pakistan – India Natural Gas Pipeline n: 22-02-2005 RARELY has pathbreaking history depended on just a few cents, as it does with the price of gas sourced from the proposed pipeline across Pakistan. A few cents more per unit would abort the project, a few cents less would make it viable and lay the ground for giant leap in Indo-Pak ties. As it happens, the realistic price that Indian negotiators are coming up with is a few cents less. The rest is history in the making. India is looking at a maximum gas price between $2.6-$2.75 per mmbtu at its border for the piped gas from Iran. India is looking at importing 90-95 mmscmd of gas, enough to fire upto 20,000 MW of power, almost doubt the current capacity of 10,300 MW. New Delhi was earlier projected to source about 60 mmscmd of gas. The estimated delivered price of piped gas is based on an assumed transit fee of around $150 million per year. This has been arrived at after taking into account international trends in transnational pipeline projects. The calculations by the government also include insurance costs, transportation charges and financial costs. A high-level team, comprising officials from GAIL India and IOC is set to leave for Iran next week to work out the details of the Indo-Iran pipeline. A high-level team from ADB has meanwhile landed in the capital and expressed interest in bringing in multilateral funding to the project. The Indian team is expected to take up discussions on location (route), costs, volume, time and schedule of the pipeline. The insurance costs, which take into account the financial costs and the special engineering costs, would translate to around 10 to 11 cents per mmbtu and the transit fee works out to around 20 to 25 cents per mmbtu. Official sources in the government said the transit fee being talked about is on the higher side given the risks and the threat premium for the project. Dr Ravi Batra of TERI told ET: "The price being talked about is definitely realistic.A lot will depend on the bargaining power of the negotiation." Apart from the economic parameters, the price at which India will import the gas will also take into account the geo-political compulsions. "While India is looking for a multi-sourcing option to bring in energy security, countries like Iran too need long term customers like India, Pakistan and China for stability," he said. The 2600-km pipeline would originate in the Persian Gulf port city of Assaluyeh (the landfall point of gas produced in South Pars gas fields) and travel 1100 km in Iran to reach the Pakistan border. In Pakistan, the pipeline will traverse 740-km (largely through Baluchistan ) to reach Indian border. Another 700-km line would be laid from Rajasthan broder to Delhi to stream the gas into the trunk HBJ pipeline. India will have to decide as to where it would create the gas hub. The imported gas is unlikely to be used only for the Northern region consumers. Dr. Ravi Batra is a Distinguished Fellow of the T E R I. His boss – the Director General – Dr. R. K. Pachauri has always wanted to pay Pakistan USD 600 to 800 Million as “Transit Dues” despite being presented with the other International Pipe Line Transit dues whereby Pakistan should get USD 70 Million as Annual Transit dues basis the Pipe Line delivering Two Billion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas Per Day. It is good to know that they have now adjusted the figure to USD 150 Million also include insurance costs, transportation charges and financial costs. You will remember that Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar had repeatedly stated that the USD 600 – 800 Million will ensure that Pakistan ensures that the Pipe Line will not be disrupted. In addition he has agreed to pay Bangladesh (Distance about 290 KM where as the Pakistani distance is 740 KM) USD 125 Million in addition to all other sops to Bngladesh. As regards the Iran-India Pipe Line now Swaminathan S. Anklesaria Aiyar (any relation to MSA?) is talking about USD 70 Million as Annual Transit Dues to Pakistn. Regarding the Myanmar Pipe Line : You will note in the Article from Daily Pioneer you have posted by G. Parthasarathi that he is asking why a Gas Pipe Line from Myanmar cannot be routed by Sea on to Haldia. Please see my post of Jan 23 2005, 05:03 PM on Page 7 of this thread. So things are moving and let us see how it goes. Keep your ears to the ground Meantime : You have PMail

Posted by: Naresh Feb 23 2005, 05:13 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Feb 24 2005, 03:37 AM)
I completely agree. We can't trust Pakistan. India should not support terrorism by funding Pakistan in form of $500 million annually as transit fees. Pakistan can't secure their own pipes how they can even guarantee uninterrupted service. India should reduce dependency on fossil energy. It is complete stupidity of Indian politicians to even think about Paki Bhai-bhai equation will increase.
Mudy, The LNG being received at Dahej from Qatar works out to about USD3.45 MMBTU (USD2.60 FOB + about USD 0.25 Transportation & Insurance + USD 0.60 for “Re-gasification” ). This will increase around 2008 or so to about USD 4.05 as the FOB Price will increse to about USD 3.20 per MMBTU However, if India can manage to get the Natural Gas – by Pipe Linefrom Iran via Pakistan – at under USD 3 per MMBTU then with various other in-built “Cast Iron” Guarantess then I think it would be worth India’s while. This is of course possibe if the Annual Transit dues are reduced to USD 70 Million or so. However, this lower "Fees" gives Pakistan that much "less incentive" to maintain an uninterupted Gas supply to India. India can take a chance if the Gas supplied by a Pipe Line via Pakistan is say about 10-20 per cent of the total being imported i.e. there is a significant amount being imported in the form of LNG. Note : Two Billion Cubic Feet per day of Natural Gas equates to 15 Million Tonnes of LNG.

Posted by: Mudy Feb 23 2005, 09:23 PM

BHP confident in Iran-Pak-India pipeline project NEW DELHI - BHP Billiton, the Australian consultant which carried out a pre-feasibility survey of the Iran-Pakistan-India gas pipeline, has said that the 2,775-kilometer long pipeline project has sufficient safeguards to prevent any disruptions in supply. In a presentation to the Petroleum Ministry, BHP Billiton said the delivered cost of Iranian gas would range between US$2.40 and $2.49 per million British thermal units (mBtu). "Pakistan will earn $199 to $413 million [depending on volume] in transit fees," the company said. Transit fees would be $0.33 dollars per mBtu ($0.047 dollars per mBtu per 100-km). The pipeline would be laid 0.9 to 1.5 meters below the surface and would use fiber-optic cable sensing systems with a back-up satellite link. Maintenance units will be located every 150 km with pipe sections ready to be installed if there is a disruption to the pipeline. Any disruption to the pipeline can be rectified within two to three days, the duration for which the pipeline would always maintain line-capacity (gas volumes). As an additional precaution, BHP has recommended that both India and Pakistan build gas storage facilities that could take care of a fortnight's demand. Besides, Tehran would back up supplies with liquefied natural gas if piped gas is disrupted for long. BHP said there were provisions against Pakistan disrupting supplies to India. The point on the pipeline from where Pakistan will offtake the gas will be only 60 km from the Indian border and there will be no valve further down the line till it enters the Indian territory.
What a security and pipe dream? mad.gif

Posted by: Naresh Feb 24 2005, 02:13 AM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Feb 24 2005, 09:53 AM)
"Pakistan will earn $199 to $413 million [depending on volume] in transit fees," the company said. Transit fees would be $0.33 dollars per mBtu ($0.047 dollars per mBtu per 100-km).
What a security and pipe dream? mad.gif
Mudy, BHP-BILLITON : A merger – I believe - between Australian BHP and Shell’s Coal + Mining Section. They have a Copper, Zinc, Lead and possibly Gold Mining concessions in Balochistan. As such they are “rooting” for the “Land” Pipe line through Pakistan. The Transit Fees for are non-national owning Pipe Line is USD 0.46 per 1000 Cubic Metres – 35,300 Cubic Feet) of Natural Gas traversing 100 kilometres. Thus the Annual Transit dues over a Distance of 740 Kilometres would be : - Basis One Billion Cubic per Day of Natural Gas Delivery : USD 35 Million - Basis Two Billion Cubic per Day of Natural Gas Delivery : USD 70 Million - Basis Three Billion Cubic per Day of Natural Gas Delivery : USD 105 Million I cannot understand why they are using US 0.047 on the basis of 1 MMBTU when it should be USD 0.46 per 1,000 Cubic Metres i.e. 35.3 MMBTU i.e. USD 0.013 per MMBTU. They do not have any expertise for laying Deep Sea Pipe Lines in Depths of over 2000 Metres.

Posted by: Naresh Feb 27 2005, 04:05 PM


Posted by: Naresh Mar 1 2005, 09:22 AM BANGALORE - Afghan President Hamid Karzai's three-day visit to India last week saw the two sides firming up several deals boosting bilateral cooperation. However, Karzai's enthusiasm for Indian involvement in an oil pipeline project seems to have not been reciprocated in equal measure by India. Karzai's visit to New Delhi was his third since the fall of the Taliban and the first since his election in October last year as Afghanistan's president. Relations between India and Afghanistan plunged to an all-time low during the years of Taliban rule, when Delhi was a key supporter of the Northern Alliance. Over the past three years, Delhi has built a strong presence in Afghanistan and bilateral relations have improved dramatically. India has participated in a big way in Afghanistan's reconstruction, having committed to a total of US$400 million as assistance to the war-ravaged country over the 2002-2008 period. This puts India among the top six contributors to Afghanistan's reconstruction. Of this assistance, India has committed $84 million for the upgradation and reconstruction of the 213 kilometer Zaranj-Delaram road. The road is the result of an Afghanistan-India-Iran project that envisages development of trade with Central Asia. The route will take goods from the Iranian port of Chabahar to Afghanistan and other Central Asian countries. Another $80 million has been set aside for the construction of the Salma Dam power project in Herat province. India is also funding the construction of a new parliament building in Afghanistan. Among the projects that India has taken up are the reconstruction of the Habibia School in Kabul - the alma mater of the ruling elite and the influential in this country, a major power transmission project to alleviate Kabul's severe power problems, supply of airplanes for civil aviation and buses for public transport and the repair of a famous mosque in the northern city of Mazar-e-Sharif. India is involved in training Afghanistan's bureaucrats, judges and lawyers, and police personnel. It has sent scores of doctors and engineers to work in Afghanistan, to train and rebuild this country. An information technology specialist has been deputed to the Afghan government. India's policy in Afghanistan is aimed at not only winning the hearts and minds of the Afghan people but also ensuring that anti-India elements (the Taliban and Pakistan) are kept out of Afghanistan's power structure. An official in the Indian Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) says that "India sees Afghanistan as a springboard to the realization of its long-term economic, energy and security interests in the Central Asian region". During Karzai's trip to India, more steps were taken to consolidate bilateral ties. Two accords on enhancing cooperation in civil aviation and media and information were signed. The memorandum of understanding (MoU) on cooperation in the field of civil aviation is aimed at building capacity and strengthening the institutional structure of Afghanistan's civil aviation sector. It includes training in areas of airport management, air traffic control, navigational aids etc, including safety and maintenance of aircraft. The MoU on cooperation in the field of media and information calls for greater interaction between the media and radio and television organizations of the two countries. But despite the small but significant steps that were taken during Karzai's trip, the Afghan president might have gone home a slightly disappointed man. He was hoping to convince Delhi to look favorably at a $3.3 billion pipeline project that envisages piping gas across roughly 900 miles from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan and Pakistan and on to India. Delhi's involvement in the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan (TAP) pipeline project is essential for its economic viability. The pipeline project could contribute significantly to Afghanistan's economy. While India has been keen to push ahead with the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline project - provided Islamabad will ensure security of the pipeline - it has not shown similar enthusiasm for the TAP pipeline, as it believes that this might not make economic sense for India. There are sections in India who are warning that problems with regard to the Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline project are likely to surface soon. "The growing tensions between America and Iran in the second Bush administration would suggest inevitable US opposition to the project," points out C Raja Mohan, a professor at the Jawaharlal Nehru University in New Delhi. However, India's MEA has more misgivings about the feasibility of the TAP pipeline. It has serious doubts over whether Turkmenistan has sufficient gas reserves to dedicate to this pipeline. Estimates of the potential of the Turkmen gas fields vary considerably. While some believe it could perhaps possess the world's fourth largest supply of gas, others peg the production potential much lower. A report in the Indian Express, a national English daily, points out that "Turkmenistan's gas production last year was 58 billion cubic meters [bcm], of which 35 bcm was exported to Ukraine and smaller volumes to Iran and Russia. About 11 bcm was used for domestic consumption." The report goes on to argue that while Turkmenistan would increase its production to about 120 bcm by 2007, it has committed to supply Russia with large amounts of gas. "In fact, nearly 70 bcm of the projected 120 bcm is believed to be contractually committed to Gazprom," the report said. The MEA has drawn the attention of India's Petroleum Ministry to the fact that if India takes into account Turkmenistan's commitments to Russia, Ukraine and Iran as well as its own domestic needs, "there will be little available for further export". India is therefore concerned that the amount of Turkmen gas that it can avail might not be enough to justify its investment in the project. An official in the MEA told Asia Times Online, "Pouring money into the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India pipeline doesn't make economic sense for India. The returns are not adequate. India investing in it will make the project economically viable but not for India." The MEA official said that India is still looking into the matter and that a proper assessment of the project and of an Asian Development Bank report on it will have to be made before India makes its decision. Until then, India's response will be "non-committal and cautious". The TAP pipeline project needs India's involvement to be economically viable and India will join in only if it is convinced that the rate of return on it is adequate to justify its investment and that there is more for it in the pipeline than goodwill alone. India's decision on the project hinges on simple economics. Afghanistan's pipeline dreams seem a long way off from being fulfilled

Posted by: Mudy Mar 1 2005, 10:07 AM

All Pakis forum sites are making fun of Iran-Paki-India pipeline deal. They are so happy to see foolish Indians are ready to commit sucide. I also agree.

Posted by: Mudy Mar 1 2005, 10:18 AM,0002.htm

OVL is proposing a total investment of $20 million in the block, which "has a potential in-place oil of more than 600 million barrels".

Posted by: Naresh Mar 1 2005, 11:58 AM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Mar 1 2005, 10:37 PM)
All Pakis forum sites are making fun of Iran-Paki-India pipeline deal. They are so happy to see foolish Indians are ready to commit sucide. I also agree.
Mudy, The main Actors in the pushing through the Land Pipe Line possibly are : 1. Congress President Mrs Sonia Gandhi 2. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh 3. Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Iyer 4. Dr. R.K. Pachauri (Director General) and Distinguished Fellow R. K. Batra of THE ENERGY RESEARCH INSTITUE (Originally Tata Energy Research Institute) It seems that the Ministry of External Affairs is rather weary and deeply worried of the Pipe Lines through Pakistan. As such one can think of the following : 5. Foreign Minister Natwar Singh 6. Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran(?) 7. Various Opinion Makers like Swaminathan S. Anklesaria Iyer, Ramananda Sengupta of REDIFF, Air Commodore Jagjit Singh etc. 8. The DDM like Professional Bidet and his Ilk. Now if we could get hold of their E-Mail Addresses and start writing to them, with hopefully other concerned members of the various other Indian forums could also joining in, then we would well see them giving the idea "A VERY HARD RE-THINK INDEED". The Indian Opinion Makers are basically either “Gung Ho” or “Candle Kissers”. The “Gung Ho” think that if Pakistan stops the “Natural Gas” then India can stop the River Waters. They do not stop to think “If India stops the River Waters then where would India store that Water?” Believe me all I can say about the Proponents of the Pipe Line through Pakistan is that seemingly and allegedly they have been bribed – Possibly not Financially but Mentally (if there is such a thing) Who will Bell the Cat?

Posted by: Naresh Mar 3 2005, 08:30 AM§ion=subcontinent

Posted by: k.ram Mar 3 2005, 07:23 PM

Oil prices could hit 80 dollars in next two years: OPEC Thu Mar 3, 8:42 AM ET Add to My Yahoo! Business - AFP KUWAIT CITY (AFP) - Prices of crude oil could surge to as high as 80 dollars a barrel within the next two years but such a level would not last long, OPEC (news - web sites)'s acting secretary general was quoted as saying. "I can affirm that the price of a barrel of crude oil rising to 80 dollars in the near future is a weak possibility," Adnan Shehab-Eldin told Kuwait's Al-Qabas newspaper. "But I cannot rule out (the possibility) of oil prices rising to 80 dollars a barrel within the next two years," he said on Thursday. "If the oil price rises to this level for one reason or another -- for example, interruption of supplies from a producing nation by one to two million barrels a day -- it is not expected to continue for long," he said. Shehab-Eldin said a price rise to between 50-60 dollars a barrel for a period of two years or more will inevitably boost investments to increase supplies and lead to a drop in demand, eventually reducing prices. World oil prices were mixed Thursday after reaching four-month highs in New York and London the previous day amid a rise in US crude stocks and jitters over increased global demand. New York's main contract, light sweet crude for delivery in April, fell 20 cents to 52.85 dollars a barrel in electronic dealing. It had jumped 1.37 dollars to close at 53.05 dollars a barrel on Wednesday, the highest close since October 26. In London on Thursday, the price of Brent North Sea crude oil for delivery in April gained 18 cents to 51.40 dollars a barrel. Shehab-Eldin said it was in the interest of OPEC and other countries not to see "big and surprising spikes in oil prices, but a gradual balance."

Posted by: vijayk Mar 4 2005, 07:57 AM

There are several reasons for this PAKI PIPE DREAM. 1. The English press, people with very low IQ such as Amani Shankar Iyer, Sonia, NutCASE Singh all want to do anything that is seen as a snub to BJP or RSS. They don't care the security implications or any of that kind of stuff. BJP opposed it, so we have to do it. What happens if PAKI RAPE army blackmails India later? They don't care and don't want to even think about it. Their IQ is too low to think about that long term future. 2. They are influenced by crazy COMMIE mad dogs such as Arundhati Roy, Medha Patkar and JNU COMMIES. They have infiltrated all over the Govt., beauracracy and English press. For them anyone bringing up security of India means he is fascist, capitalist, communalist and should be immediately trashed, rebuked and destroyed through the press. 3. They ignore every thing MUSHY says: He recently wrote a book in which he says: India is PAKISTAN's No. 1 Enemy. I don't think even 1% of this candle KISSERS understand PAKI mentality because they have single-digit IQ. For them, nationalism is a danger. If today China invades India, they will support CHINA and blame India. It is all India's fault. 4. COMMIES want to stop India's progress at any cost. They don't want to see India in which there is lesser and lesser poverty.Where will they get their support from? Misery is their friend. They can blame Govt for not giving away everything free. Growth is th elast theing they want to see. They would rejoice to see PAKIs in better shape than Indians. Their hatred for our culture (include SONIA also in this list), history and resilience is so strong that they will supoort any one other than India and trash India at every opportunity. But they can present it in the form of secularism and fool Indians (both muslims and hindus) and hope to see the disintegration of this country as soon as possible.

Posted by: Mudy Mar 5 2005, 11:33 PM Column-by Hari Sud

Hence pipeline through Pakistan should be last option unless a product and services swap arrangements are worked out. Pakistan for its own use can build a pipeline from Iran. Since their consumption is small, it will make any such project economically unviable, hence may never be built. The alternative sea route to India, which is not receiving sufficient attention in the present political setup, should be analyzed on equal footings.

Posted by: rajesh_g Mar 7 2005, 02:06 AM

India's hands are tied Dr Farrukh Saleem The "axis of oil" has three members: the US, China and India. By 2020, India will need to double its energy consumption merely to maintain a steady rate of economic growth. Lord Vishwakarma's hands are tied. Proven oil reserves stand at a paltry 5.4 billion barrels while daily consumption exceeds 2.2 million barrels (the equivalent of less than seven years' reserves). India already imports up to 65 percent of its oil, and according to the International Energy Agency, "India's dependence on oil imports will grow to 91.6 percent by the year 2020 (by which time India will need in excess of 5.3 million barrels a day)." India's national security really depends on its energy security. Energy security also has serious military implications. Defensive as well as offensive undertakings also depend on the viability of a country's access to energy, and India's energy deficient status actually limits its war options (of a prolonged combat, for instance). In decades to come, India's foreign and defence policy will be all about safeguarding the country's oil routes and accessing natural gas. Currently, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Norway, Venezuela, Iran and Iraq are India's largest oil exporters. Securing those oil routes would mean expanding naval power, and then there is all that political volatility in the Middle East to be taken into account. The alternative is natural gas, and two of the largest gas reservoirs in the region are in Iran and Turkmenistan. India's medium-to-long-term goal is to gain acceptance as a regional -- and then a global -- power. Its rivalry with Pakistan over Kashmir is holding it back. In essence, India's rivalry over Kashmir also has a direct relevance with its energy security. A billion Indians consume a paltry two billion cubic feet of gas a day (150 million Pakistanis consume that much). India wants an additional two billion cubic feet of gas a day. Turkmenistan's Dauletabad Gas Field has a lot of gas to spare, and so does Iran's South Pars Gas Field. Dauletabad is less than a thousand miles away, but the problem with India tapping either Dauletabad or South Pars is its geography. The most direct, the shortest and the least expensive route for Dauletabad's natural gas to reach India is the Southern Corridor through Afghanistan and Pakistan. Afghanistan is arguably the most volatile of regions and India remains reluctant to rely on Pakistan for its supply of natural gas (reluctant but for how long?). In South Pars, Iran is the potential supplier and India the potential consumer. In between the two comes Pakistani territory. Pakistan would want the $4 billion "pipeline of peace" to pass through its territory for it to earn a couple of hundred million dollars a year in transit fee. Can India bypass Pakistan and still get its gas from South Pars? To be certain, some 80 percent of the proposed pipeline will be over Iranian territory (and then through the restive province of Balochistan). To bypass Pakistan will be awfully expensive. India's Middle Eastern oil supply line is under threat by Western interests. America has already fought two Gulf Wars to protect oil supplies and now occupies Iraq (originally the "Carter Doctrine"). America's 3rd Infantry Division (Mechanized) is in Kuwait; the 380th Air Expeditionary Wing is in Abu Dhabi; Qatar hosts Headquarters Special Operations Central Command; CENTCOM's Navel Component Commander is in Bahrain; Oman houses the 355th Air Expeditionary Group and Jordan hosts Patriot surface-to-air-missile batteries (in addition to all the B-52s, B-2 Stealth bombers, KC-135s, Army and Marine brigades, along with a billion tons of pre-positioned strategic sealift ships at Diego Garcia). Those indeed are strong messages to India to diversify its energy dependence away from Middle Eastern oil. Accessing cheap oil has always been central to America's foreign and defence policies. Only recently has India decided to focus on actually developing an "energy security policy" with affordability, reliability and diversification as main elements. There is evidence that the US wants India to meet its energy needs from within the region. There has been talk of getting gas from the Bibiyana Gas Field in Bangladesh but supplying gas to India is powerful dynamite in Bangladeshi politics. There has also been talk of a pipeline from Myammar (Burma) to Calcutta through Bangladesh. The government of India is also encouraging public-sector companies to acquire stakes in foreign oil and gas fields. None of the above implies that we are economically stronger than India, but we certainly have a lower gas dependency on outside sources. India does want to become a regional, and then a global, heavyweight, but India must first gain a lot of economic weight. And, gaining economic mass depends on energy security. India's thirst for energy, if unfulfilled, will hold it back from becoming a global player. Alas, there is no way that India can escape its own geography. Pakistan can help untie Lord Vishwakarma's hands, and we can all live happily thereafter. (Lord Vishwakarma, son of Brahma, is the Hindu god of architecture and engineering, and has four hands.)

Posted by: prem Mar 8 2005, 06:00 PM

Puki says Indian agrees for Pipe Line Whats going on with Iyer...

Posted by: Naresh Mar 13 2005, 04:11 PM

SHORT CIRCUIT IN AIR VACUUM EFFECTS GAS PIPE LINE SUKKUR: Unidentified saboteurs blew up a 20-inch diametre pipe supplying gas to Karachi at the Garhi Hasan Canal, 50 kilometres northwest of Shikarpur in Sindh, en route to Pakistan Petroleum Limited’s Sui Gas Purification Plant in Sui, Balochistan, at about 1:00am on Sunday. A bomb planted by saboteurs destroyed a six-inch portion of the line on the Sindh-Balochistan border, causing a 10-foot deep ditch. Online reported that the police had started a search and arrested several suspects. “The blast only damaged a reserve pipeline and it has failed to disrupt the gas supply,” Sukkur District Police Officer Din Muhammad told reporters.

Posted by: Naresh Mar 14 2005, 05:07 PM

QUOTE (prem @ Mar 9 2005, 06:30 AM)
Puki says Indian agrees for Pipe Line Whats going on with Iyer...
Prem, There is many a cup between the slip and the lip On another note - the worm turns : NEW DELHI: Diplomacy does not flow through pipelines for the ministry of external affairs (MEA) in spite of deputing one of its own officials as a pointsperson in the oil ministry. On March 8, foreign secretary Shyam Saran warned petroleum secretary S C Tripathi against including any bilateral issue with Dhaka in the three-nation MoU for an India-Myanmar gas pipeline through Bangladesh. Oil minister Mani Shankar Aiyar is scheduled to sign the MoU later this month along with his counterparts from Bangladesh and Myanmar. Saran's warning comes in the wake of Dhaka trying to include bilateral issues such as a transit corridor to Nepal through India and the right to use Indian electricity transmission network to bring power from Bhutan as well as reduction of trade imbalance.

Posted by: rajesh_g Mar 14 2005, 06:57 PM,0002.htm

Iran not to ink 'supply-or-pay' gas deal with India Press Trust of India New Delh, March 9, 2005|12:31 IST In a major setback to India, Iran has rejected a standard international 'supply-or-pay' condition for delivering gas through the proposed 4.16 billion dollar Iran-India pipeline. Tehran last week told the Indian side lead by Talmeez Ahmed, Additional Secretary, Ministry of External Affairs, that Iran was not willing to sign the 'supply-or-pay' contract, which would make it accountable to deliver the gas at Indian borders or else pay for the assured quantity, an official accompanying the Indian delegation to Tehran said. Despite Iran's unwillingness to sign the 'supply-or-pay' agreement, Tehran wants New Delhi to commit to a stringent 'take-or-pay' clause where India will have to pay the price even if it does not take delivery of gas. The official said Iran has also turned down India's demand for 'rich' gas (natural gas rich in petrochemicals). "Tehran told the Indian side that Iranian policy permits export of only lean gas (natural gas stripped of ethane, propane and butane)," an official said. Besides, Iran has also linked the price of gas through the 2600-km long pipeline passing through Pakistan to the cost of regassified-LNG, which is atleast 30 per cent of the piped natural gas price.

Posted by: rajesh_g Mar 15 2005, 11:05 AM

Gujarat govt eyes jatropha cultivation tie-up To get seeds from Chattisgarh to plant in wastelands Our Regional Bureau / Ahmedabad March 15, 2005 The Gujarat government plans to tie up with its Chattisgarh counterpart to commence jatropha cultivation in its waste lands. As per the deal Gujarat would procure jatropha seeds from Chattisgarh and plant them in its waste lands on a large scale. Jatropha can be used to derive biodiesel, an alternate source of fuel. In fact, the state road transport corporation launched its biodiesel-driven bus service on Saturday. �Gujarat will soon come out with an integrated policy for the use of wastelands in the state. We are in talks with the Chattisgarh government for procuring good quality jatropha seeds to be used for deriving biodiesel,� chief minister Narendra Modi said. �Gujarat is an ideal place for Jatropha plantations with over 1600 kilometres of coastal area. The first commercial production of bio-diesel as an alternative fuel derived from Jatropha seeds has already started in the state,� he added. Modi is expected to meet the principal secretary in the Chattisgarh government to finalise the deal shortly. Gujarat has already been identified as an ideal destination for jatropha plantation by the committee on development of bio-fuel of the Planning Commission. Meanwhile, the University of Hohenheim, Germany � Institute for Animal Production in the Tropics and Subtropics (which already has experience in other jatropha projects) and the Central Salt and Marine Chemicals Research Institute have already been identified as partners for a project for the commercial production of jatropha in the state. Daimler Chrysler will provide financial and technical support for the project. According to a study, a jatropha plant yields over five kilograms of seeds, and 2500 plants can be grown per hectare. If 10 million hectare of wasteland is brought under jatropha cultivation, it can yield 15 million tonnes of seeds, which after extraction yields four million tonnes of oil.
What kind of energy are we talking about ?

Posted by: Mudy Mar 15 2005, 09:36 PM and Russia find a new way to advance their strategic ambitions.

Posted by: Mudy Mar 17 2005, 11:00 PM

What else did the Arabs do with their money? Most harmful aspect this excessive cash in the Saudi Arabia’s pocket was the free distribution of money, all over the world to uplift the Islamic culture. Free cash was provided to print Qoran, in various languages, build Mosques, educate the under privileged in Islamic Madarssas etc. On the surface it is harmless charitable effort on the part of the wealthy. But if you re-examine the insurgency movements all over the world including in the West and especially the 9/11, and rise of Taliban in Afghanistan, Kashmir insurgency, fundamentalism in Pakistan, long running insurgencies in Indonesia, Philippines and now in Thailand, other insurgencies in North African countries and all over the Middle East including Israel, Lebanon and in the Horn of Africa, are a direct result of monies spent by Saudi Arabia to spread the Islamic movements. The latter pretends to be spending it on charity, but in fact, it is instigating the masses to challenge the established world order. Islam prospered with war from 8th century to 17th century. At peak it ruled from Indonesia to Spain. Then the West (especially the Britain) ended their supremacy. The Saudi Arabia is trying to re-establish its dominance after 300 years of delay. Carefully crafted charitable donations are key to their dreams.
Arabs love the additional cash which is incoming to their account on account of 45 % to 50% higher prices than a year back. They have really won this battle at the expense of everybody else. Other losers are the third World countries, which have meager income, very little cash reserves and can hardly afford the super power geo-politic if it results in a major drain on their meager resources. Very soon there will be a cry out for relief. The next question arises as to what the Arabs will do with this extra cash. God forbids, if it goes to build Mosques and Madarssas. Then the fundamentalism will increase. It will be detrimental to peace and stability in the world. I hope, US is watching the build up of this extra cash with the Arabs. They have to prevent its accumulation and misuse.

Posted by: SSridhar Mar 18 2005, 03:58 AM

From that article in SAAG by Hari Sud, quoted above by Mudy:

The latter pretends to be spending it on charity, but in fact, it is instigating the masses to challenge the established world order.
Except in their own country. However, like it happened in TSP where the terror outfits turned on the hands that fed them so far, so also in Saudi Arabia the terrorists are now against the rulers themselves and their profligacy. The Saudi funded madrassahs have not been exactly innocuous. They have been spewing out the very strict and intolerant Wahhabi brand of Islam. Even within Saudi Arabia, the Friday sermons in many mosques used to be particularly virulent especially against the Kafirs of Jews and Hindus and only recently have these mullahs been reined in, probably as a temporary measure while the Saudi Government tackles the more serious local terrorism. The Saudis thought that by only funding these terror outfits in a far away land of TSP, they will not have a blowback. That has proved to be a folly as a majority of Saudis today want the current rulers out. They are also clear about democracy. They do not want it either, however much the GOTUS tries to impose it. The Saudi rulers are walking a fine line between democracy and their hold on the power. This will essentailly lead to a greater destabilization of the whole area with significant impact on energy security for countries like India and China.

Posted by: k.ram Mar 18 2005, 05:47 AM

Title: Aiyar, give up pipe dream Author: Editorial Publication: Free Press Journal Date: March 18, 2005 Petroleum Minister Mani Shankar Aiyar needs must be congratulated for having given his job a very high public profile. Given the changing energy scenario world-wide, it is just as well that we have someone like Aiyar to head the Petroleum Ministry. Unlike some of his predecessors, who had allowed the officials to do the thinking for them, Aiyar is a hands-on minister who knows his mind. And does things to achieve results. The fluidity of demand and supply on the energy front coupled with the OPEC-driven pressure on crude prices has provided a sharper edge to Aiyar's drive for assured supplies in the foreseeable future. He is also right in encouraging the big public sector players in the field to try and tie up long-term stakes and supplies in a few energy-producing nations. Since the country imports over 70 per cent of its POL, it makes immense business and strategic sense to buy a stake in the foreign oil-producing majors. However, Aiyar has been amiss in pushing rather too aggressively his pipe-dreams about entering into a three-way agreement in setting up a pipeline from Iran to India via Pakistan. Some of his enthusiasm about entering into an active partnership with China in developing mutually beneficial energy supplies can be wholly discounted as stemming from his early romance with the communist ideology of the Chinese variety. How his half-baked proposals will pan out with the country's defence planners and establishment might not have weighed sufficiently enough with the Minister when he went overboard endorsing a China-India energy pact. But whether it is China or Pakistan, India cannot risk its economic well-being by putting too much reliance for its energy needs on these two countries without settling all other outstanding disputes beforehand. In this context, the concern expressed by the US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, on her brief visit to New Delhi on Wednesday, about the proposed pipeline from Iran cannot be ignored. Not only does this concern stem from the Islamic fundamentalists who rule Iran with an iron grip, but the fact that the pipeline necessarily must pass through Pakistan must also dissuade the Petroleum Minister from pushing ahead at break-neck speed with his pet pipe-dream. Admittedly, Iran and India have traditionally enjoyed a warm relationship. Several times in the recent past, Iran alone in the Islamic world has taken a friendly stand on the Kashmir dispute with Pakistan. Yet, given that a rogue Pakistani scientist has supplied Teheran equipment for the manufacture of what is billed as the Islamic bomb, given that the mullahs who rule the Shia-majority country have run afoul of the western world led by the US, it is quite likely that Iran might end up in the lap of the Islamic fundamentalists who wage `jehad' against the established international order. Also, notwithstanding the modern-minded Kabul regime, there is a strong presence of Islamic fundamentalists in Afghanistan who are bound to look askance at the Iran-India pipeline. As for Pakistan, it might press India for pushing ahead with the pipeline project for its own reasons, economic and strategic, but that would make our energy supplies hostage to the anti-India mullahs who have in their power, despite the military ruler holding the reins of power in Islamabad, to turn off the tap as it were at their sweet will. Is India ready to tempt these obscurantist elements just so Aiyar can find an entry in history books as the one who established the pipeline from Iran? Of course, in a volatile energy market ensuring long-term energy security should remain a key objective. Of course, we are not bound by the US concern about the India-Iran pipeline. But, in all sincerity, we cannot be unmindful of the ongoing US Administration's efforts to unearth and demolish the Iranian nuclear project. Whether Aiyar, given his fundamentalist secularist proclivities, appreciates that concern or not, India cannot ignore the real danger of another Islamic nation acquiring the dreaded bomb to push its own blinkered world-view beyond its boundaries. In short, Aiyar will be well-advised to push the energy security project without in anyway causing anxiety to the defence establishment and national security strategists.

Posted by: Naresh Mar 18 2005, 01:01 PM

AMERICA’S OPPOSITION TO THE IRAN-PAKISTAN-INDIA NATURAL GAS PIPE LINE Has it occurred to EVERYBODY that this could the USA’s ploy to ensure that India does go for the Pipe Line via the Land of the Impure. There was a sizable opposition to the Pipe Line. Now after Rice’s pronouncement everybody but everybody in India wants the Iran-Pakistan-India Pipe Line Project to go through. I think we Indians are being conned. Can Esteemed Members think of any other reason?

Posted by: Mudy Mar 18 2005, 01:11 PM

Has it occurred to EVERYBODY that this could the USA’s ploy to ensure that India does go for the Pipe Line via the Land of the Impure.
Ploy to have pipeline from Afghanistan -Pakistan to India, so that both client states can get free money from India. Trying to protect US oil companies investment in Capsian Sea. US can twist India's arm as and when required. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Naresh Mar 18 2005, 01:25 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Mar 19 2005, 01:41 AM)
Ploy to have pipeline from Afghanistan -Pakistan to India, so that both client states can get free money from India. Trying to protect US oil companies investment in Capsian Sea. US can twist India's arm as and when required. biggrin.gif
Mudy, I couldn't have put it better

Posted by: SSridhar Mar 19 2005, 02:34 AM

Naresh ji, By offering an "energy dialogue", the US plans to achieve several things in one go.

  • Such dialogues will take a long time as we have seen with NSSP.
  • India's growth can be arrested/manipulated
  • By offering cooperation in nuclear energy field, the US will get a foothold which it has so far not been able to regain after it withdrew from TAPS fuel supply after 1974
  • It can revive the almost defunct TAPS pipeline to help its own o&g companies
  • Hold an important leverage both by itself and thro' its client TSP, against India
We should use this opportunity to go for an under-sea pipeline & more LNG after TSP had capitulated to US demands and use the threat of scuttling the project to drive down the price with the Iranians.

Posted by: Naresh Mar 19 2005, 11:34 AM

SSridhar Ji I do agree with you at every point but our problem is that the Honourable Petroleum Minister is more interested in Grandstanding, hearing his own Voice and seeing his name in Print. He should have had agreed to the Purchase of LNG from Iran at the same time – may be within a week after - as the Chinese did their 25 Year Deals first with Australia and then with Iran. However, having possibly failed in his “IFS” career he is taking decisions without keeping the MEA duly in the picture and without taking their advice – agreeing to the Myanmar Gas Pipe Line through Bangladesh is a case in point. The Deep Sea Pipe Line Project Report was made in 1992 or thereabouts. The Pipe Line was feasible then although it was at the Frontier of Technology. Today with the BlueStream Pipe Line already functioning he should have no doubt in mind. However to ensure the Iran-Pakistan-India Pipe Line he is going around with the Cock and Bull Story that China would agree to an Iran-Pakistan-India-Bangladesh-India-Myanmar-China Natural Gas Pipe Line. China will do no such thing. His frame of mind can be judged from his “Oil Pipe Line Idea” from Siberia via via via to the Red Sea (I believe he stated Aqaba) and then by Oil Tankers to India instead of having it Piped from Siberia to Vladivostok – Nakhodka and by Oil Tankers to India. I have a strong feeling that at the end of the day the Iran-Pakistan-India Pipe Line will go through as also the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India Pipe Line (of course subject to “spare” Natural Gas being available in Turkmenistan) and thus India will be under not only the USA’s thumb but also under Pakistan’s Heel. Such are our “Netas”.

Posted by: Naresh Mar 20 2005, 03:10 AM

Sorry – I overlooked this Item in the Dawn of 10-03-2005 KARACHI, March 9: Sui Southern Gas Company Limited (SSGC) has made public its plans to set up an integrated Liquefied Natural Gas (LNG) Import Project, which would be the first of its kind in the country. Industry experts commented that natural gas (in any form) had never been imported into Pakistan before. The disclosure of SSGC's interest in import and setting up of integrated LNG Import plant was brought to the public eye through an advertisement in newspapers on Wednesday, in which the company sought applications from "world-class, international consultants/group of consultants for providing consultancy services for its proposed LNG project." SSGC stated that to supplement its local natural gas supply sources, the company was considering import of LNG to provide additional gas supply to meet new growth demand from power plants/IPPs and industrial customers in particular. The company said it had envisaged an integrated LNG import contract inclusive of procurement, transportation, storage and re-gasification and/or taking up of the liquefied gas from a specified point, transportation, storage and re-gasification facility to be set-up on a Build, Own and Operate (BOO) or Build, Own and Transfer (BOT) basis, in the Port Qasim Terminal or the Karachi Port Trust (KPT) area in Karachi. SSGC stated that it could also consider equity participation in joint venture/consortium. As for the project, the company said that the expected delivery capacity would be 2.5 million tons of LNG per annum, equivalent to about 300 mmcfd, with the option for larger volumes of up to 3.5 million tons of LNG or approximately 500mmcfd of Natural Gas. Industry experts explained that LNG (not to be confused with CNG) was natural gas in its liquid form. When natural gas was cooled to minus 259 degrees Fahrenheit, it changes to liquid. The process is known as liquefaction. LNG weighs less than half the weight of water. There are 40 LNG receiving terminals located world wide. Japan, South Korea, the United State and a number of European Counties import LNG. On receipt of LNG at most terminals, it is transferred to insulated storage tanks that are built to specifically hold LNG. When natural gas is needed, the LNG is warmed to a point where it converts back to its gaseous state. This is accomplished using a regasification process involving heat exchangers. Experts said that the reason that gas was imported in LNG form was the ability to transport larger quantity, requiring lesser space over long distances. Although the project would be capital intensive, import in LNG form is said to consume lesser time and money and is safer than transportation through pipelines. Analysts thought that the reason that SSGC was opting to go for LNG import was to sustain profitability growth. Since gas transmission companies' (SSGC and SNGPL) earnings were linked to their Net Asset Base (operating profit being 17 per cent of Net Asset in case of SSGC), those companies had to keep up their capital expenditure (capex) plans. From financial year 2005 to 2008, SSGC had drawn up capex plan of Rs35 billion. Accounts for the latest half term ended December 31, 2004 of SSGC showed that despite 16pc growth in net sales (due to higher number of units sold), there was a 5pc y-o-y decline in operating profits during the period to Rs1.1bn. "Operating profits were lower on account of relatively lower net capex booked by the company because deprecation charge was relatively higher than asset addition" commented an analyst at a stock brokerage house. Another agreed that the primary reason for shortfall in earnings was low asset capitalization of Rs 0.9bn, 38% of total 1HFY04 capital expenditure of Rs 2.4 billion. Energy experts have calculated that if crude oil prices remain above $30 per barrel, LNG import becomes feasible. "In essence, the plan to go into import of LNG is a diversification of SSGC operations, which primarily are transmission & distribution of locally discovered gas", said an industry watcher. The current local demand of gas was said to be 3,500 million cubic feet per day (mmcfd) of which SSGC had share of 1,200 mmcfd. When the LNG Import Project comes on stream, it would increase supplies of gas from SSGC by 300 to 500mmfcd. In an article in Financial Times, London of Friday, March 4, 2005, it is quoted: "LNG is emerging as one of the hottest sectors of the global energy business. By the end of the decade, analysts expect LNG plants to be churning out 250 million tons a year-double the level in 2003". The FT also noted that Qatar, which loaded its first LNG cargo in 1996 expects to become the world's largest supplier as early as next year." At the Annual General Meeting of SSGC on October 24, 2004, shareholders had granted permission to the company to make a strategic investment of Rs5.1 million in setting up Inter-State Gas Systems (Pvt) Limited (ISGSL)-a subsidiary of SSGC, one of the purposes of which was stated to be "to review possibilities of import of gas in order to meet any domestic shortfall in the supply thereof". Directors had reported that the projected demand would outstrip indigenous gas supplies by about 2010. "Both SSGC and SNGPL thus have to consider import sources for meeting their future demand. The main option under current consideration is to import gas through one of three prospective trans-national pipelines from Turkmenistan, Iran or Qatar", directors told the shareholders. Most analysts are putting their bet on Qatar as the source of supply of Imported LNG to Pakistan, but Iran does not lag far behind. The Pakistanis want to Import LNG as they are fully convinced about the Inability of their Government to guarantee Safety thereby to ensure a continuous and uninterrupted supply by a Pipe Line. However, India’s Honourable Petroleum Minister is convinced that India MUST have Two Pipe Lines through Pakistan and One Through Bangladesh. furious.gif

Posted by: Naresh Mar 22 2005, 05:07 PM QUETTA: A powerful explosion blew up a gas pipeline near Kambri Bridge located between Dhadar and Sibi on Tuesday. Police inspector Ali Akbar Magsi said that the saboteurs had used powerful explosives to blow up the gas pipeline. An anonymous caller from the Baloch Liberation Army claimed responsibility for the attack. Three bombs in Balochistan damaged a power line and a shop but caused no casualties, AFP quoted officials as saying on Tuesday. A power pylon was toppled on Monday at Killi Kishungi in Naushki district, 130 kilometres southwest of Quetta, said electricity company spokesman Gibrael Khan. Hundreds of homes in the area were plunged into darkness, he said. Another bomb ripped through the shutters of a steel workshop in Naushki, a local police official said. The third bomb exploded near the regional office of the army-led Anti-Narcotics Force in the town of Turbat, 600 kilometres southwest of Quetta, but caused no damage, said local police official Habibullah. Nobody claimed responsibility

Posted by: Mudy Mar 22 2005, 05:18 PM

Send Aiyar to BALOCHISTAN for feasibility study and Chai pani. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Naresh Mar 22 2005, 05:34 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Mar 23 2005, 05:48 AM)
Send Aiyar to BALOCHISTAN for feasibility study and Chai pani. biggrin.gif
Mudy, How about on a “No Deposit – No Return” Basis lmaosmiley.gif

Posted by: Mudy Mar 22 2005, 05:47 PM

How about on a “No Deposit – No Return” Basis
That should be default outcome in current situation. biggrin.gif

Posted by: rajesh_g Mar 22 2005, 06:09 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Mar 22 2005, 05:47 PM)
How about on a “No Deposit – No Return” Basis
That should be default outcome in current situation. biggrin.gif
Come on - didnt you hear ? He eats beef.. tongue.gif

Posted by: Naresh Mar 23 2005, 12:55 AM

QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Mar 23 2005, 06:39 AM)
Come on - didnt you hear ? He eats beef.. tongue.gif
rajesh_g, You mean we can blame the shenanigans on Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease? ROTFL.gif

Posted by: Naresh Mar 23 2005, 05:42 PM NEW DELHI: The government is willing to invest up to $25 billion for acquiring oilfields overseas, oil minister Mani Shankar Aiyar said on Wednesday, urging China to join hands in search of the region's energy security instead of competing for limited resources. "We are in a position to raise $25 billion...My ambition is not to compete with China, but to explore ways and means of partnering with it," Aiyar told a CII conference. Indian state-owned oil firms already have stakes in oil and gas fields in 12 countries — Russia, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Qatar, Ivory Coast, Australia, Vietnam and Myanmar. They, however, are far behind the Chinese companies. India's flagship ONGC Videsh Ltd (OVL) often faces Chinese competition in bidding for oil and gas assets abroad, a rivalry which has seen the asking price for the properties shoot up. "When the world's most energy-thirsty countries pit against each other, the bid price for the limited properties available goes up," Aiyar said. Aiyar said while India and China would continue to be dictated by market forces and can compete in some areas, there are possibilities of working together. Citing the example of Greater Nile Oil Project in Sudan, where OVL and China's CNPC are working together without any clash of interest, he said areas of mutual interest need to be identified so that nations work together in achieving energy security. "There are enormous prospects for India and China to work together...Our interests are complementary," he said adding there could be some sectors where the two countries can compete and some where they could cooperate. China received its initial forex inflows from non-resident Chinese and foreign direct investment after it opened up in 1983, while India earned its foreign exchange after opening up in 1991 through foreign institutional investors (FIIs) and remittances from non-resident Indians. India can emulate the Chinese "miraculous" growth, Aiyar said. "China had $4-5 billion FDI during 1983 to 1991, the same as what we got in the last 10 years."

Posted by: Naresh Mar 26 2005, 03:35 AM Pakistan should go for Iran gas pipeline project; ought to overcome US pressure KARACHI: Oil experts have urged the government to refrain from the idea of importing gas from Turkmenistan as this option would take years to materialise and would not be fruitful to the country. "Already the country has suffered a lot due to the Afghan policy of the previous governments’ that yielded nothing but delayed the implementation of the project," said an expert while talking to The News. He said that the US wants Pakistan to go for the Turkmenistan project, which is quite worrying. Even though Hamid Karzai, who is an ex adviser of the UNOCAL Company, is the President of Afghanistan, the political situation has not improved and the Taliban are still giving him a very rough time. The best option for Pakistan is to go for the Iran gas pipeline project, as Iran is a politically strong country, while Pakistan only has to cope with its internal problem of Balochistan.* The expert said the biggest problem with the Turkmenistan project is the long distance and the unstable political situation due to infighting among the Afghan warlords and the threat from the Taliban. He said: "Pakistan has suffered a lot due to the Afghan policy and now it should first consider its own interest rather than looking after Afghanistan’s interests." If the country delays in deciding the option it cannot prevent the occurrence of gas shedding from 2010 in which initially the country will be facing a shortage of 350 mmcfd. He said that US wants the Turkmenistan project as it has placed Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan to look after the US interest. According to the Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) the gas supply would see a shortfall of 350 mmcfd from the year 2010 and it would go up to 1,691 mmcfd in the year 2015 and 3,156 mmcfd by 2020. "One thing the US did not calculate is the aftermath of Taliban and the warlords and the present day situation is giving fits to the US think tanks," the expert said. Another expert when asked to comment emphasised on the need to start work on the Iran gas pipeline project as both India and Iran are strong nations and they can bear international pressure quite aptly. Despite US pressure on India to abandon the project, the Indians have vowed to continue with the project, as they badly need the gas from Iran. "Iran gas pipeline is the best option for India as it has very good relations with Iran whereas Pakistan is still showing brotherly considerations to Afghanistan despite the fact it has paid heavy price internally," the expert opined. He said that the government has taken a lot of time in realising the importance of the proposed gas importing projects and even if the work on any one of the projects begins it would take two years for financial closing of the project and another three to fours years in its construction. "The present cost of gas is coming to be $2.5 per mmbtu whereas the imported gas will be sold to the country at prices ranging between $2.5 to $3 per mmbtu," he said. However, another expert when contacted felt that the gas imported from Iran would be much cheaper than the locally produced gas. He argued that Iran has huge reserves of gas and with our infrastructure already being developed the landed cost would be much less than developing new fields. It has been observed that gas available from the new discoveries made by foreign companies is much costly than the gas produced by the Pakistan Petroleum Limited (PPL) at Sui. He said: "If the SSGC and SNGPL gives gas to all industries then the country’s reserves that will last for 35-40 years would be depleted in 10-15 years. So, there is need to have another source of gas so that our reserves are protected and prevented from over exploitation." Pakistan has already ensured all kinds of guarantees to Iran and India on the protection of the pipeline. It has also signed an agreement with the Russian oil and gas firm Gazprom to undertake a study of the proposed pipeline, both under water and on surface. He said that the SSGC has calculated the cost of Turkmenistan gas project at $1.6 billion, the Iran project at $2.1 billion and the Qatar project at $3.3 billion. The length of pipeline of Turkmenistan is 1456 km, Iran of 2106 km and Qatar 2409 km. *The Pakistanis admit that there is a Major Problem in Baluchistan. Can somebody send this article to our Right Honourable Minister of Petroleum?

Posted by: Naresh Mar 30 2005, 02:35 PM

An Old Article on Coal – From the Economist : A Subscription Site The environment Environmental enemy No. 1 Cleaning up the burning of coal would be the best way to make growth greener user posted image IS GROWTH bad for the environment? It is certainly fashionable in some quarters to argue that trade and capitalism are choking the planet to death. Yet it is also nonsense. As our survey of the environment this week explains, there is little evidence to back up such alarmism. On the contrary, there is reason to believe not only that growth can be compatible with greenery, but that it often bolsters it. This is not, however, to say that there are no environmental problems to worry about. In particular, the needlessly dirty, unhealthy and inefficient way in which we use energy is the biggest source of environmental fouling. That is why it makes sense to start a slow shift away from today's filthy use of fossil fuels towards a cleaner, low-carbon future. There are three reasons for calling for such an energy revolution. First, a switch to cleaner energy would make tackling other green concerns a lot easier. That is because dealing with many of these—treating chemical waste, recycling aluminium or incinerating municipal rubbish, for instance—is in itself an energy-intensive task. The second reason is climate change. The most sensible way for governments to tackle this genuine (but long-term) problem is to send a powerful signal that the world must move towards a low-carbon future. That will spur all sorts of innovations in clean energy. The third reason is the most pressing of all: human health. In poor countries, where inefficient power stations, sooty coal boilers and bad ventilation are the norm, air pollution is one of the leading preventable causes of death. It affects some of the rich world too. From Athens to Beijing, the impact of fine particles released by the combustion of fossil fuels, and especially coal, is among today's biggest public-health concerns. Dethroning King Coal The dream of cleaner energy will never be realised as long as the balance is tilted toward dirty technologies. For a start, governments must scrap perverse subsidies that actually encourage the consumption of fossil fuels. Some of these, such as cash given by Spain and Germany to the coal industry, are blatantly wrong-headed. Others are less obvious, but no less damaging. A clause in America's Clean Air Act exempts old coal plants from complying with current emissions rules, so much of America's electricity is now produced by coal plants that are over 30 years old. Rather than closing this loophole, the Bush administration has announced measures that will give those dirty old clunkers a new lease on life. Nor are poor countries blameless: many subsidise electricity heavily in the name of helping poor people, but rich farmers and urban elites then get to guzzle cheap (mostly coal-fired) power. The harm done to human health and the environment from burning fossil fuels is not reflected in the price of those fuels, especially coal, in most countries. That points to a second prescription: the rich world could usefully help poorer countries to switch to cleaner energy. A forthcoming study by the International Energy Agency estimates that there are 1.6 billion people in the world who are unable to use modern energy. They often walk many miles to fetch wood, or collect cow dung, to use as fuel. As the poor world grows richer in coming decades, and builds thousands of power plants, many more such unfortunates will get electricity. That good news will come with a snag. Unless the rich world intervenes, many of these plants will burn coal in a dirty way. The resultant surge in carbon emissions will cast a grim shadow over the coming decades. Ending subsidies for exporters of fossil-fuel power plants might help. But stronger action is probably needed, meaning that the rich world must be ready to pay for the poor to switch to low-carbon energy. This should not be regarded as mere charity, but rather as a form of insurance against global warming. The final and most crucial step is to start pricing energy properly. At the moment, the harm done to human health and the environment from burning fossil fuels is not reflected in the price of those fuels, especially coal, in most countries. There is no perfect way to do this, but one good idea is for governments to impose a tax based on carbon emissions. Such a tax could be introduced gradually, with the revenues raised returned as reductions in, say, labour taxes. That would make absolutely clear that the time has come to stop burning dirty fuels such as coal, using today's technologies. The dawning of the age of hydrogen None of these changes need kill off coal altogether. Rather, they would provide a much-needed boost to the development of low-carbon technologies. Naturally, renewables such as solar and wind will get a boost. But so too would “sequestration”, an innovative way of using fossil fuels without releasing carbon into the air (see article). This matters for two reasons. For a start, there is so much cheap coal, distributed all over the world, that poor countries are bound to burn it. The second reason is that sequestration offers a fine stepping-stone to squeaky clean hydrogen energy. Once the energy trapped in coal is unleashed and its carbon sequestered, energy-laden hydrogen can be used directly in fuel cells. These nifty inventions can power a laptop, car or home without any harmful emissions at all. It will take time to get to this hydrogen age, but there are promising harbingers. Within a few years, nearly every big car maker plans to have fuel-cell cars on the road. Power plants using this technology are already trickling on to the market. Most big oil companies have active hydrogen and carbon-sequestration efforts under way. Even some green groups opposed to all things fossil say they are willing to accept sequestration as a bridge to a renewables-based hydrogen future. Best of all, this approach offers even defenders of coal a realistic long-term plan for tackling climate change. Since he rejected the UN's Kyoto treaty on climate change, George Bush has been portrayed as a stooge for the energy industry. This week, California's legislature forged ahead by passing restrictions on emissions of greenhouse gases; a Senate committee has acted similarly. Mr Bush, who has made surprisingly positive comments about carbon sequestration and fuel cells, could silence the critics by following suit. By cracking down on carbon and embracing hydrogen, he could even lead. Cheers

Posted by: Naresh Mar 30 2005, 02:42 PM

Second Article on Coal – From the Economist : A Subscription Site Carbon sequestration - Fired up with ideas Capturing and storing carbon dioxide could slow down climate change and also allow fossil fuels to be a bridge to a clean hydrogen-based future user posted image IF THE world is to tackle the problem of climate change in earnest, “clean coal” has to become more than just an amusing oxymoron. All fossil fuels contain carbon, but coal is by far the most carbon-intensive. This is troubling, since global warming seems to be driven by an increase in the level of atmospheric greenhouse gases, of which carbon dioxide (CO2) is the most worrisome. Coal is also the most abundant fossil fuel (see chart). If all known conventional oil and gas reserves (those in underground formations, obtained by drilling) were burned, the level of CO2 in the atmosphere would still be less than twice what it was before the beginning of the industrial revolution. Climate change associated with that level of CO2 might be tolerable. Burn all the coal, however, and it would be more than four times that starting-point—with larger, less predictable and quite likely more unpleasant climatic consequences. Much of that coal will, nevertheless, be burned. In particular, poor countries such as China, India and South Africa have large reserves that are almost certain to be used to fuel economic growth. So it makes sense to consider possible technical fixes to the problem. These will never be the whole answer; unless the correct incentives are applied, burning coal without such fixes is likely to remain cheaper than burning it with them. But combined with the right incentives, in the form of such things as carbon taxes, they could help to keep the rise in atmospheric CO2 to manageable proportions. They may also, surprisingly, help to usher in the green nirvana of a “hydrogen economy”, in which the fuel of choice is that non-poisonous, non-greenhouse gas. user posted image Catch me if you can Technological solutions to rising atmospheric CO2 (as opposed to, say, planting forests to soak the stuff up through photosynthesis) come in two parts. The first is capture: extracting the gas from the machine that is burning it. The second is sequestration: putting it somewhere it cannot easily escape from. Capture is the more expensive of the two, especially when it needs to be designed into a plant from the start. One method that can be retrofitted on to existing machinery (although it is probably worth doing so only for large emitters) is to “scrub” CO2 from an exhaust by passing it through a chemical, such as mono-ethanolamine, which has a particular affinity for the gas. Smaller CO2 sources (such as car engines and homes), which account for about half the gas generated by burning fossil fuels, are unlikely to be susceptible to retrofitted scrubbing. And even in large plants, scrubbing is easier and cheaper when the exhaust has a high concentration of CO2—which is not the case for fuels that have been burned in air. Some have suggested using pure oxygen rather than air, but that is hardly an economically practical solution. In some ways, though, a truly practical solution is even more radical: to change the way that energy is extracted from fossil fuels by separating the CO2 formation from the process of heat generation. That can be done by adapting a well-established chemical process known as steam reformation. This involves reacting a carbon-based fuel with oxygen and steam to produce a so-called “synthesis gas” that is composed of carbon monoxide and hydrogen (much of the latter comes from the water, rather than the fuel). That mixture can be separated quite easily, and the hydrogen burned in, for example, a gas turbine. Then, mixing the carbon monoxide with more steam in the presence of a suitable catalyst yields CO2 and still more hydrogen; again a mixture that can be separated quite easily. It is this idea, known as the integrated gasifier combined cycle (IGCC) approach, that has environmentalists excited. It would require big changes to the design of energy-generating equipment, and so could not be introduced quickly. But it is not pie in the sky. And true visionaries will notice that, since it produces hydrogen, it permits the generation of electricity by fuel cells (chemical reactors that create electrical current from the reaction between hydrogen and oxygen, without any harmful emissions) as well as conventional gas turbines. Fuel cells are a critical component of most projections of what a hydrogen economy might look like. Although the whole package seems idealistic, most of the technologies involved are in fact already in common use, in such processes as ammonia production. Indeed, there are several IGCC plants already operating in Europe and America (although they do not bother to remove CO2). Some firms are talking of building one in China. Robert Williams, head of energy-systems analysis at Princeton University, reckons that, even in countries such as China, where tackling global warming is not exactly a priority, such gasification could lead to “zero emissions from coal”, helped on its way by the extra revenues that may come from so-called “polygeneration” of clean synthetic fuels, hydrogen and electricity together. Down under Scrubbing and gasification can thus deliver CO2 in a form that can be disposed of. Actually doing so, though, remains a challenge. Leaks from CO2 repositories would hardly be as disastrous as leaks from a nuclear-waste dump. Nevertheless, to be effective, those repositories would have to stay gas-tight for centuries. One way of disposing of the gas might be to sink it beneath the waves. The oceans already store a lot of CO2, so they might be induced to accept a little more. But it would have to be buried in water that is not likely to come to the surface any time soon. Some scientists worry, though, that dissolving vast quantities of CO2 in the bottom of the ocean could result in ecological damage; others fear that the gas will be regurgitated wherever it is put. An international research consortium planned to test such worries by releasing 60 tonnes of CO2 on the seabed near Hawaii—but noisy protests forced it to cancel the plan last month. Howard Herzog of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, a member of the consortium, says that the team now hopes to shift to the North Sea. A less speculative option would be to use depleted oil and gas reservoirs. These are layers of porous rocks topped by a cap of impermeable rock, usually in the shape of a dome. After decades of oil exploitation, there are plenty of ageing fields around. The advantages are many: the geology and technology involved are well understood; the exploration costs are small; and the reservoirs in question have already proved they can hold liquids and gases for aeons, since that is how the extracted hydrocarbons built up in them. What is more, injecting CO2 into such wells could produce a saleable by-product; a similar technique is already used by oilmen to squeeze extra output from declining sources. For example, EnCana, a Canadian oil company, pays the Dakota Gasification Company to pump CO2 produced at Dakota's coal gasification plant by pipeline to some of its wells. In what may prove to be a straw in the wind, an American emissions brokerage called announced this week the largest-ever public trade in the emerging greenhouse-gas market. Ontario Power Generation, a Canadian company, bought the right to the emissions-reduction “credits” associated with 9m tonnes of CO2. That gas, produced as a by-product of natural-gas processing, would normally have been vented into the atmosphere, but it will now be injected instead into old oil-fields in Wyoming, Texas and Mississippi. The power company has volunteered to cut its emissions of greenhouse gases, and sees these credits as a way to offset its fossil-fuel emissions. A similar idea to burying CO2 in old oil wells is to inject it into coal seams that are too deep and uneconomic to mine. This has two attractions. First, the injected gas will be absorbed on to the surface of the coal, and so locked up more or less permanently. Second, the incoming CO2 often displaces methane that would otherwise not have seen the light of day. Capturing and selling that methane could turn this approach into a nice little earner. A scheme in New Mexico already uses CO2 in this manner. Also promising are saline aquifers located deep below the earth's surface. CO2 pumped into such places would dissolve, at least in part, in the salt water. In some such formations, it would also react with local silicate minerals to form carbonates and bicarbonates that could stay put for millions of years. Statoil, a Norwegian oil firm, has been pumping CO2 into a deep saline aquifer under the North Sea since 1996—the first time “geological” sequestration of this sort has been motivated by a fear of climate change, in the form of a Norwegian tax on carbon emissions. That tax created the incentive for Statoil to bury the stuff rather than continue releasing it into the atmosphere. Geological sequestration, then, is not merely a speculative idea. In some cases it may even pay part or all of its own way, by releasing otherwise inaccessible fuel deposits. Recognising this, eight big energy companies, led by BP, have recently formed the CO2 Capture Project to promote research. The Natural Resources Defence Council, a big American green group, says it is keeping an open mind about this sort of sequestration. And there is one other important endorsement: “We all believe technology offers great promise to significantly reduce emissions—especially carbon capture, storage and sequestration technologies.” Thus spake George Bush, the man who said No to the Kyoto treaty on climate change. Cheers

Posted by: Naresh Mar 30 2005, 02:47 PM

Third Article on Coal – From the Economist : A Subscription Site Global warming : Global temperatures are rising, but whether this is mankind's or nature's fault is unclear. Environmentalists point to a build-up of greenhouse gases caused by the burning of fossil fuels, deforestation and other human activities. In 1997 39 of the world's richest countries agreed to curb greenhouse-gas emissions at the Kyoto Climate Change Conference. But a row between the European Union and the United States at The Hague Summit in 2000, and President George Bush's opposition, hampered the ratification of the resulting Kyoto Protocol. Most environment ministers reached an unexpected deal in Bonn in July 2001. Japan, Australia, Russia and Canada joined in November after securing concessions from the EU. But America, which claims the protocol would cut living standards, remains opposed to Kyoto. It is considering alternatives like taxes or binding targets for greenhouse-gas emissions. Bjorn Lomborg, author of “The Skeptical Environmentalist”, has created a stir among environmentalists by debunking many of their claims and attacking Kyoto. He is now to run Denmark's new Institute for Environmental Assessment. Cheers

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 2 2005, 11:43 PM

Nine blasts on the transmission system of Sui Northern Gas Pipelines Limited (SNGPL) during the last two years have hit industry, especially export-oriented industries, financially as well as psychologically. Industrialists claim that apart from the financial cost, which is huge in itself, it is loss of confidence in governance and lack of a consistent supply of gas that has affected the industry beyond redemption. Ruling out any replacement for gas as a source of energy, they demand alternative supply routes because now natural gas was available from many fields spread across the country. Mr Saigol said that power-run industries could have a back-up system of electricity. They could put up small power generation plants and purchase generators. But, gas could not be stored at consumers end, he said. It leaves only one option that was a smooth and consistent supply of gas from the supplier. Most of the blasts occurred during the winter season when major industry was not getting supply due to increased domestic consumption. But, it was certainly a huge confidence loss for industry in the ability of the government to create an enabling environment for industry to run smoothly, he said. Dr. Faisal Bari, a well-known economist, was of the view that industry suffered two kinds of losses with each blast at the transmission lines of the SNGPL. Its working got interrupted, which has its own fiscal cost. Cost could multiply if the industry was involved in a process that is continuous: involving boilers, he said. Once off line, coming back online has a massive cost. Further, upstream and downstream industries also got affected. The opportunity cost of industry and country was also an area could not be ignored. The ultimate sufferers are the gross domestic product which suffers a cumulative cost.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 3 2005, 02:37 PM by B.Raman

8.It just does not have the funds required for a project of this nature. The pipeline would be going through an earth-quake prone area, inhabited on both sides of the Pakistan-Iran border by Sunni Balochs, who are strongly opposed to this. The Balochs in Pakistan have revived their independence struggle and have been frequently disrupting the gas supplies from the Sui area of Balochistan to the rest of Pakistan. They have been demanding higher royalty fees from Islamabad for the Sui gas.
12. Iran does not have either the money or the special skills required for a project of this nature. It will have to form a consortium of Western, Australian and Japanese companies for raising the money as well as for engineering assistance in the construction and maintenance. Unless there is a dramatic improvement in the US relations with Iran, Washington would be able to see to it that such a consortium does not come into being. Russia may be able to help technologically, but will not be able to raise the money
15. It is not for tomorrow. Nor for the day after either. It is a long way off. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Viren Apr 8 2005, 01:03 PM

Came via email... Is it true or just another chain emails?

The Saudis are boycotting American goods. They are the primary supporters of the Madrassas, Islamic schools in India. We should return the favor. An interesting thought is to boycott their GAS. Every time you fill up the car, you can avoid putting more money into the coffers of Saudi Arabia. Just buy from gas companies that don't import their oil from the Saudis. Nothing is more frustrating than the feeling that every time I fill-up the tank, I am sending my money to people who are trying to kill me, my family, my culture, and my friends. I thought it might be interesting for you to know which oil companies are the best to buy gas from and which major companies import Middle Eastern oil, such as the following: Shell............................. 205,742,000 barrels Chevron/Texaco*........ 144,332,000 barrels Exxon /Mobil............... 130,082,000 barrels Marathon/Speedway... 117,740,000 barrels Amoco..........................62,231,000 barrels If you do the math at $30/barrel, these imports amount to over $18 BILLION! Here are some large companies that do not import Middle Eastern oil: Citgo.......................0 barrels Sunoco...................0 barrels Conoco...................0 barrels Sinclair....................0 barrels BP/Phillips..............0 barrels Hess........................0 barrels ARC0.*****.0 barrels All of this information is available from the Department of Energy and each is required to state where they get their oil and how much they are importing. Now, don't wimp out at this point... keep reading and I'll explain how simple it is to reach millions of people!! I'm sending this note to about thirty people. If each of you send it to at least ten more (30 x 10 = 300)... and those 300 send it to at least ten more (300 x 10 = 3,000) ... and so on, by the time the message reaches the sixth generation of people, we will have reached over THREE MILLION consumers! If those three million get excited and pass this on to ten friends each, then 30 million people will have been contacted! If it goes one level further, you guessed it ..... THREE HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE!!! Again, all you have to do is send this to 10 people. How long would all that take? If each of us sends this e-mail out to ten more people within one day, all 300 MILLION people could conceivably be contacted within the next eight days! If you don't like the rising price of gas, here's something quick and easy you can do to help solve the problem.

Posted by: Naresh Apr 10 2005, 04:02 AM

India, although has not given up on the Iran-Pakistan-India Pipe Line, is increasing its import of Natural Gas in the form of LNG : NEW DELHI: Six major shipping lines, including Mitsui, Exmar, Qatar Shipping and Essar, are left in fray for supply of three liquefied natural gas (LNG) tankers for Petronet LNG Ltd, India's first LNG importing company. State-run Shipping Corp of India (SCI) and Great Eastern Shipping Co had put in two bids each - SCI teamed up with Mitsui OSK line, NYK Line and K Line for one bid and with Qatar Shipping and Isle of Man-based Dorchester Maritime for other. Great Eastern bid with Malaysian International Shipping Corp and Teekay Shipping separately. Esmar Marine NV joined Indian Oil Corp and Varun Shipping while Essar Shipping and Golar LNG joined force to bid for the tender, a top official in Petronet LNG said. PLL, which already has two 138,000-cubic metre capacity ship ferrying LNG from Qatar to its Dahej terminal, needs two more LNG tankers of similar capacity for hauling additional five million tons gas to Dahej. For the Kochi terminal, PLL wants a 152,000-to-165,000-cubic metres capacity ship. "Eight consortiums had submitted Expression of Interest for the contract in January. But two - Foresight and the consortirum of SCI-Irano Hind-IR-Iran Shipping - were disqualified as they did not meet the threshold criteria," the official said. The company is expanding the capacity of Dahej LNG terminal from five million tonnes to 10 million tonnes per annum at an estimated cost of Rs 1,000 crore and is setting up a Rs 2,000 crore LNG receiving terminal at Cochin (Kochi) with an initial capacity of 2.5 million tonnes, which can be scaled up to five million tonnes per annum later. With Hazira and Dehej operating and the ex-Enron Terminal near Mumbai being made operational the addition of Kochi and Enore (Near Chennai) will reduce the need of Natural Gas by Pipe Lines. Cheers

Posted by: Mudy Apr 12 2005, 09:45 AM


Absorbing oil shocks RN Malik The Indian economy has been continuously bedevilled by three factors: Population explosion, lack of infrastructure and swelling oil import bill. In the last 18 months, oil prices have fluctuated from $30 per barrel to $57. There was a time when the US was able to break the cartel of OPEC, which produces 40 per cent of the world's oil, and trades in 60 per cent of the total exports. It was selling at $10 per a barrel in March 1999. Now those days are over. The OPEC has regrouped and reduced oil production levels by six per cent. Fortunately, the developing countries raised a hue and cry. Then US President Bill Clinton released special quota from defence stocks to meet the pressing demands. This brought the OPEC to its knees and it agreed to increase the production level to maintain a price band of $22-$28 per barrel. That lasted till November 2003. Thereafter, the prices became volatile again, touching a record level of $55 per barrel in February 2004. It dipped to $35 in November and then again shot up to $57 on March 18, 2005. Reacting to frequent rise and fall of prices, the UAE Oil Minister Mohammad al-Hamli said: "It is not in our hands... OPEC is doing its best but it is a train which is difficult to stop." Finally, the production was increased by four per cent but this did not help defuse the crisis. On March 29, the price was still pegged at $54 per barrel. OPEC claims that it cannot increase the production capacity further for technical reasons. But the truth is it has deliberately avoided increasing production capacity beyond 28 million barrel per day for fear of a crash in prices. Considering the inflationary trends over the past few years and depreciation in the dollar value, a price band of $35-$40 was considered reasonable. But experts have already hinted at further escalation in prices. Unfortunately, neither the US nor the European countries are professing against the volatility in oil prices. But for countries like India, the hike would amount to extra outflow of foreign exchange by 40-50 per cent. India is producing only 31.4 million tones (MT) of crude oil against a total annual demand of 95 MT. The import of 63.6 MT of oil at $35 would cost the exchequer Rs 85,000 crore. The bill will rise to Rs 12,5000 crore for an average price of $50 per barrel, which is 3.125 per cent of GDP. The net outflow of Rs 12,5000 crore and Rs 20,000 crore for other petroleum products is the basic cause of tardy growth of the Indian economy. The extra outflow of Rs 40,000 crore is equal to half the plan allocations in the Budget 2005 proposals. The irrational exuberance in prices can be attributed to unrelenting demand of crude oil caused by the booming economies of US, China, Japan and some Asian countries. Exorbitant oil costs will adversely affect the Indian economy. The Government should, therefore, draw a pragmatic contingency plan to meet the future demands by taking six pragmatic measures: (1) The ONGC should accelerate the conversion of recent discoveries of oil and gas reserves into commercial production. (2) The Government must persuade Bangladesh to develop huge gas reserves and export gas to India. This is key to break the juggernaut of oil price hike. (3) India must develop 50,000 of power from alternative sources-coal, hydro, etc.,-to reduce dependence on oil. (4) Convert diesel traction of trains into electric traction. (5) Electrification of villages would save huge consumption of oil. (6) Introduction of metro rail service with regulatory control on car traffic can also bring down imports substantially.

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 16 2005, 07:59 PM This should make it simpler for those who have been demanding a deep-sea pipeline. Nareshji, please send it to your friend, Dr. Pachauri

Pakistan is unlikely to defy the United States if the proposed mega gas pipeline project linking Iran, Pakistan and India is found to violate US law. In a briefing to journalists at the Pakistan embassy on Friday evening, Shah said if the pipeline violates any US law, “we’ll take a look at it.” He said there were several options that Pakistan could consider, besides the said pipeline. It was clear from the adviser’s carefully crafted answers to a volley of questions on this issue that Pakistan would not violate US law, or in other words, not become a party to the gas pipeline project were the US to take a strong position on the issue, something it appears to have already done.

Posted by: Naresh Apr 17 2005, 01:17 AM

SSridhar Ji : Done and Dusted. This Forum Members should also write to : Dr. R. K. Pachauri – Director General, T E R I, New Delhi at With Copy to : Dr. R. K. Batra – Distinguished Fellow, T E R I, New Delhi at P.S. It was enlightening to see Pakistan State Bank Governor Ishrat Hussain quoted figures that, he argued, explode the popular Western myth that Pakistan’s education system is heavily populated by madrassas which are producing fundamentalists, extremists and terrorists for the rest of the world. Primary enrolment in madrassas, he added, accounts for only 0.9 percent of the total enrolment and there is differentiation among even those attending madrassas. Whereas the Real story is per Dr. Farruk Sallem’s Article from The News International – Jang of the 10th April 2005 :

Pakistan has 16,059 high schools and at least 10,000 madrasas. The total high school student population stands at 1.6 million while madrasa students are estimated at 1.5 million.
Members should also write to Khalid Hasan, at about Pakistan State Bank Governor Ishrat Hussain “concocted lies” Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 17 2005, 03:07 AM

Nareshji, Please see your Yahoo a/c. for my mail.

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 17 2005, 03:28 AM - A Report by International Crisis Group

There is no end to what can be achieved through the juggling of numbers, as a recent World Bank-funded paper on madrasas in Pakistan demonstrates only too well. If the findings of this paper, entitled “Religious School Enrolment in Pakistan: a Look at the Data”, are to be taken at face value, then Pakistan and the international community, have little cause to worry about an educational sector that glorifies jihad and indoctrinates Pakistani children in religious intolerance and extremism. Questioning the validity of madrasa enrolment statistics provided by the International Crisis Group and other expert analysts, Tahir Andrabi et al. argue that madrasas account for less than one per cent of all school enrolment in Pakistan, and that there is no evidence of a dramatic increase in enrolment in recent years. This is directly at odds with the official source, the Pakistan Ministry of Education’s 2003 directory of madrasas, which indicates that the number of madrasa has increased from 6,996 in 2001 to 10,430. Madrasa unions themselves put the figure at 13,000 with the total number of students enrolled at 1.5-1.7 million, but of course they may have reasons for inflating their numbers. Taking the Ministry of Education figure of an additional 3,434 madrasa since 2001, it is highly implausible that enrolment in madrasas has also not grown. The authors insist there are at most 475,000 children in Pakistani madrasa, yet Ejazul Haq, Pakistan’s Federal Minister for Religious Affairs, says that the country’s madrasas impart religious education to 1,000,000 children. The trouble is that the authors base their analysis on three questionable sources: the highly controversial 1998 census; household surveys that were neither designed nor conducted to elicit data on madrasa enrolment; and a limited, village-based, household educational census, conducted by the researchers themselves in only three of 102 districts. The 1998 census is not only out-of-date, as the authors themselves admit, but their 2003 educational census is also of little value because it is based on a representative sample of villages, suggesting that the madrasa is mainly a rural phenomenon. In fact, urban cities and towns tend to have the largest clusters of madrasas; most villages seldom have more than one. The authors might have learnt more about the madrasa phenomenon had they conducted their field research in urban centres, and on institutions such as the Binori Town madrasa and its affiliates in Karachi. Interestingly, the authors also downplay the linkage between poverty and madrasa education. Yet a 2002 survey conducted by the Institute of Policy Studies (Deeni Madaris: Problems and Prospects, Institute of Policy Studies, Islamabad, 2002), and a 2002-2003 survey conducted by Tariq Rehman (reproduced in IPRI Journal, Winter 2004) found that a majority of madrasa students came from economically deprived backgrounds. The authors’ insist that the Pakistani madrasa sector is a by-product of geographical proximity to Afghanistan and the geopolitics of Pakistan’s western neighbour, but intriguingly overlook its domestic and international implications. Since General Muhammad Zia ul-Haq ruled Pakistan (1977-88), the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam and other Deobandi parties have, with state patronage, used their madrasas to recruit party members as well as volunteers for domestic and regional jihads. The rise of jihadi and sectarian violence in Pakistan is closely linked to the madrasa boom. And the close ties between local and transnational extremists will continue to pose a threat to the Pakistani state, and to regional and international security, till such time that the country’s decision-makers acknowledge they have a problem that has to be dealt with, and urgently. Juggling figures is unlikely to help. Samina Ahmed is the South Asia Project Director for the International Crisis Group,

Posted by: Naresh Apr 17 2005, 03:47 AM

QUOTE (SSridhar @ Apr 17 2005, 03:37 PM)
Nareshji, Please see your Yahoo a/c. for my mail.
SSridhar Ji : Thanks. You have E-Mail Cheers

Posted by: SSridhar Apr 19 2005, 04:52 AM because there is no gas... This is exactly the same reason why India should not go for a land-based IPI pipeline. After a few terrorist attacks on these structures, investor confidence will be dented even if we have a 15-day storage backup etc. Or, the interest rates on such projects will go up because of insecure supply.

Posted by: Mudy Apr 19 2005, 09:30 AM

Why Pakis now want peace in Kashmir? Mini Gadwar project is complete; China is dreaming pipeline from Iran-Paki-Kashmir-China. China wants peace in Pakistan North Eastern border. But China will give moral support to Pakistan in Gujarat-Raj sector. Destroying Gujarat economy will be major setback for India’s economy and Energy needs. Internationally with the help of NGO they can blame Gujarat riots for unrest. Only hurdle is Modi to create new battle ground. I think we will see some interesting time here.

Posted by: Naresh Apr 19 2005, 02:44 PM

Mudy Ji : Pakistan-Kashmir-China Pipe Line is a bit of a joke. China needs Oil on the Eastern and Southern Sea Coasts. Only the Right Honourable M S Ayiar believes in it. Guidance : If you look at a Map of Asia the shortest distance to the Chinese Eastern and Southern Sea Coasts seams to be Iran, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, India and Myanmar. RE Gwadar : Present Draught about 12 Metres - Projected Draught after completion of Second Phase 14 Metres. Should take in Oil Tankers of a the range 100,000 to 150,000 MT DWT. The Chinese and Iranians have built a Fleet of 300,000 MT DWT Oil Tankers which have a Draught of about 21 Metres. Here is a VLCC for your reference : Name: Kumanogawa, Built: 4/2001, Type: Tanker, Status: In Service, SubType: Crude Flag: Liberia, DWT: 302,203, Draught : 20.85, Builder: Kawasaki H.I. GT: 159,566, LOA: 333.00, Owner: Kawasaki Kisen Kaisha, Beam: 60.00, Speed/Cons: 15.20/- Class: NK, Depth: 29.30, Cubic: 342,400 Engine Type: MAN-B&W 7S80MC, 25480 kW, 34,650 PS. Alternative : Draught at Dry Bulk Carriers and Post Panamax Container Ship's Berth : 17-18 Metres Draught at Tanker SBM : 32 Metres. Cheers

Posted by: Naresh Apr 20 2005, 01:13 AM TEHRAN (PIN) — Iran will reward Indian and Chinese companies with development of oil fields once it makes sure that these two Asian giants purchase Iran’s liquefied natural gas (LNG), a senior official said. “If Indian companies finalize their intention to operate Yadavaran project we will appropriate shares to them,” he said. Regarding the North Azadegan field, the official stated: “This field should also produce LNG and our talks are not finalized. We are providing Indian companies with necessary data on Azadegan.” This does indicate, IMO, that the Iranians have decided to put the idea of a Natural Gas Pipe Line to India on the Back Burner and export Natural Gas to India in the Form of LNG. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy Apr 20 2005, 09:29 AM

This does indicate, IMO, that the Iranians have decided to put the idea of a Natural Gas Pipe Line to India on the Back Burner and export Natural Gas to India in the Form of LNG.
biggrin.gif specool.gif Anyway it was not a feasible solution.

Posted by: Naresh Apr 20 2005, 12:42 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ Apr 20 2005, 09:59 PM)
biggrin.gif specool.gif Anyway it was not a feasible solution.
Mudy Ji : Tell that to M S Ayiar, Dr. Pachauri and those of The Ilk ROTFL.gif Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Naresh Apr 21 2005, 03:08 AM

Karachi Port Trust “Chairman” and his Gwadar ILK have been “HAWKING” their Port Facilities to the Northern and Western Regions of India. pakee.gif In addition to the “Super” Port of Mundra there is the Port of Pipavav (Old name Port Albert Victor) coming up. This port will also cater to Post Panamax Container Vessels of 8,000 TEUs and Larger. Of couse Jawahar Lal Nehru Port is also expanding to be able to cater to the Post Panamax Container Vessels. So why would the Northern and Western Regions of India use the Fundamentalist, Terrorist and Jehadi Infested Pakistani Ports? Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: agnivayu Apr 21 2005, 06:55 PM

QUOTE (Naresh @ Apr 21 2005, 03:38 PM)
Karachi Port Trust “Chairman” and his Gwadar ILK have been “HAWKING” their Port Facilities to the Northern and Western Regions of India. pakee.gif In addition to the “Super” Port of Mundra there is the Port of Pipavav (Old name Port Albert Victor) coming up. This port will also cater to Post Panamax Container Vessels of 8,000 TEUs and Larger. Of couse Jawahar Lal Nehru Port is also expanding to be able to cater to the Post Panamax Container Vessels. So why would the Northern and Western Regions of India use the Fundamentalist, Terrorist and Jehadi Infested Pakistani Ports? Cheers cheers.gif
The Pipeline is such a great idea. India can now provide Pakistan an extra $500 Million dollars so that Pakistan has more cash to fund their military and terrorist groups. Ofcourse, India will have to increase their military spending by much more than $500 million to counteract this. Simply Brilliant. With morons like India's current Oil MInister who needs enemies ?

Posted by: Mudy Apr 21 2005, 07:11 PM

Mudy Ji : Tell that to M S Ayiar, Dr. Pachauri and those of The Ilk
Those who are from Punjab should not deal with TSP. Reason; they all are suffering form S. Stockholm Syndrome. While dealing with TSP they ignore India's interest but give importance to cultural brotherhood. They are harming India's long term interest. e,g. I.K.Gujaral, Aiyar, Kuldip Nayyar, Ramdass, ManMohan, Advani.....

Posted by: Naresh Apr 21 2005, 11:25 PM clap.gif NEW DELHI: Global energy major Royal Dutch Shell on Thursday has commissioned its first 2.5 million tonne (MT)-capacity liquefied natural gas (LNG) terminal at Hazira in Gujarat. The Hazira Port and LNG Limited CEO Nitin Shukla said Shell hoped to begin commercial operations at the Rs.30 billion-terminal by the first week of May. There are also plans to raise the terminal's capacity to 10 Million Tonnes in the future, he said. india.gif Shell's terminal is the second LNG depot, with the first set up by Petronet LNG at Dahej also in Gujarat, and is expected to ease natural gas scarcity in the country. With a huge gap between demand and supply of natural gas in India, Shell hopes it would find enough takers for its product despite selling 700,000 standard cubic metres per day (SCMD) at a price higher than rival Petronet LNG Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Naresh Apr 29 2005, 06:26 AM MOSCOW - Despite pressure from the government and oil importers in Tokyo for priority in Russian crude deliveries to Japan, Russia's new eastern oil pipeline will first deliver crude oil to China, and later to Japan, a senior executive of Transneft, the state pipeline agency, told Asia Times Online. But the oil to China will be transported by rail, not by a special China spur pipeline. For two years, Russian government officials have been tugged in different directions by Japan and China over the route the pipeline should take. At stake are deliveries of up to 1.6 million barrels of crude per day. The biggest soap opera in the history of oil transportation began with an ambitious scheme by Mikhail Khodorkovsky's Yukos oil company to build its own pipeline from Angarsk, in eastern Siberia, where Yukos operated a refinery, to Daqing, a terminal town in northern China. The China National Petroleum Co agreed to build the section of the pipeline from the border to Daqing, and began work. Then Transneft, the state-controlled pipeline agency, moved to block Yukos from taking ownership of the pipeline. Russian government officials agreed that commercially owned pipelines threatened their control over oil export capacity, and allowed unrestricted pumping of the oilfields. Transneft took over equity in the project; Yukos was to supply the oil for China. [img[b] Then war broke out between Khodorkovsky and President Vladimir Putin over Khodorkovsky's attempt to sell up to 40% of Yukos to a US oil company. Khodorkovsky went to jail, where 18 months later he remains - he is to face court judgment in Moscow this week - and Yukos was dismantled. Its principal assets have been transferred to state-controlled companies in payment of massive tax-fraud claims. But Japanese lobbying in the meantime failed to shake Transneft's preference for piping the first oil in the project to China, thereby setting high Russian officials at one another's throats or, to be more precise, their pockets. While cabinet ministers appeared to favor the Japanese, Transneft worked on persuading the Kremlin to back the Chinese. Japanese officials have reacted to the Transneft plan by threatening to withdraw their promised financing. "In such a situation, Japan will not provide financial cooperation," announced Japanese Minister of Economy, Trade and Industry Shoichi Nakagawa. This threat plays directly into Transneft's hands, as Transneft spokesman Sergei Grigoriev has more than once warned against accepting the Japanese financing formula, which ties construction loans for the pipeline to repayment with guaranteed volumes of oil, with favorable pricing. Claims by the Japanese media in January that the Kremlin preferred the Tokyo-financed oil pipeline route to deliver crude oil to a new tanker terminal at Perevoznaya Bay near Nakhodka port turned out to be wishful thinking. Transneft announced at a January meeting between chief executive officer Semyon Vainshtok and Putin that a substantial increase in pipeline oil shipments to China overland remained the strategic priority, and would not be eliminated in favor of the Japanese bid to corner Russian exports eastward through Nakhodka. Vainshtok and Putin appeared to agree that his agency would build a branch line to China as part of the longer project. Still, Transneft officials were so uncertain of the outcome in January, they have been reluctant to confirm what exactly is on their drawing boards. In the past, Transneft has told Asia Times Online it wants to lay the southeastern branch line to China to carry an estimated 30 million tonnes per annum (584,000 barrels per day); while the eastern branch line to the Sea of Japan coast would carry 50 million tonnes per annum (972,000 bd). In December, however, an order by Prime Minister Mikhail Fradkov proposed eventual capacity of the Nakhodka line to be 80 million tonnes per annum (1.6 million bd). Transneft has never been enthusiastic about the Nakhodka option, not least of all because there are no operating oilfields yet in eastern Siberia to fill the pipeline. However, for the past four months, Putin has been unable to resolve fierce lobbying by both Tokyo and Beijing among his advisers and ministers. Last month, Yury Trutnev, appointed a year ago as minister of natural resources, emerged as the leader of the cabinet clique against Transneft. In a speech on March 30, he said Transneft should lose control of major new oil pipeline and port projects, especially the eastern pipeline. Trutnev said Transneft should not be responsible for pipeline transport, and therefore should be reorganized under the control of a new federal agency. "Nonsense," charged Grigoriev. "Absolutely incompetent", he said of Trutnev, indicating how personal the politics has become. Sources from the Natural Resources Ministry have told Asia Times Online that Trutnev, who himself has an oil background and was a regional politician before taking his Moscow post, is under the influence of LUKoil and other powerful oil and mining companies. Last year, LUKoil clashed with Transneft, and attempted to lobby for the same reorganization plan Trutnev advocated in March. Trutnev is so wary of the charges against him, he has ordered his spokesman not to answer press questions. The internecine lobbying continued unabated until Industry Minister Victor Khristenko led a Russian delegation to Tokyo recently for a session of the Russia-Japan inter-government commission. Again, the Japanese tried to force the Russians' hand by a flurry of press statements. To this, Grigoriev told Asia Times Online: "We are not building a pipeline to China or Japan. We are building a pipeline on the territory of Russia. The first part of the project will stretch to Skovorodino [terminal]. Then for the project to start operations, we will send oil from Skovorodino by railroad." Skovorodino is considerably further to the north and east of the initial Angarsk-Daqing route proposed by Yukos. The new planned pipeline skirts northward of the ecologically sensitive region around Lake Baikal, and will run from Taishet, near the Bratsk aluminum center, to Skorovodino. This terminal is 600 kilometers east of the main border rail junction at Zabakailsk and Manzhouli, where current Russian oil deliveries by rail cross into China. It is still unclear what rail capacity China has, or will build, to carry the oil from Skorovodino. Current maps show Russian and Chinese rail lines moving east-west in parallel on either side of the border. They are not yet connected. From Skorovodino, Grigoriev told Asia Times Online, politics, not geography, will decide the oil's course. "It is political lobbying that will decide where it will go - to China or Japan. After that, we plan to build a pipeline from Skovorodino to Nakhodka." Grigoriev noted that since China is seeking 30 million tonnes of crude per year, with an additional 50 million tonnes for tanker pick-up from Nakhodka, "We are building an 80-million-tonne-capacity pipeline to Skovorodino, and a 50-million-tonne-capacity pipeline from Skovorodino to Nakhodka." John Helmer is the doyen of the foreign press corps in Russia. He first set up his Moscow bureau in 1989, and specializes in the coverage of Russian business. US reviews of Western reporting from Russia have rated him at the top of the profession. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Naresh May 5 2005, 02:06 PM New Delhi Oil and Natural Gas Corporation has made three oil and gas discoveries on East and West Coasts of India. One in shallow-waters on West Coast and two in deep-waters in Krishna Gaodavari (KG) basin on East Coast. In Western Offshore, ONGC has made a significant Oil and Gas find at a location 60 km South South West of Mumbai High Field. "We are in the process of evaluating the size of the reserve," officials said. The well flowed oil and gas at two intervals, they said but did not give the reserve estimates. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy May 12 2005, 11:55 AM

Observers feel, India is aiming big in Kazakhstan. Access to aspian oil is vital for India for its energy security which will reduce India's dependence on energy from West Asia. Aiyar is campaigning for India's role in the Blue Stream and the Kazakh-Chinese pipelines. Blue Stream is being built by Russia's Transneft which will take Caspian oil to Black Sea, while the other pipeline is being built by China's Xinjiang. Both the projects will bring Caspian energy within India's ambit. Blue Stream can bring the Caspian oil to the Mediterranean. In case of the Chinese pipeline, India can either haul the Caspian oil through a Chinese port or go for an oil-for-gas barter

Posted by: Naresh May 21 2005, 03:07 PM Letter to MEA warns of invoking Iran-Libya Act ----The United States has threatened to impose sanctions if India goes ahead with the Indo-Iran gas pipeline. In a letter to the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA), the US Government has warned that it will impose the Iran and Libya Sanctions Act (also known as Kennedy D'Amato Act) on India in case it goes ahead with the pipeline. The Act gives the US the power to impose economic, trade and financial sanctions on countries and companies operating in Iran and Libya. The Act aims at curbing companies from investing in the Iranian and Libyan oil and gas sector. Though this can be a measure to restrict India's entry in Iran for pipeline building, Petroleum Ministry officials were hopeful that the US would consider India's energy needs and not impose the sanctions. The Act, passed by the US Congress in 1996, triggers sanctions on companies that make new investments in Iran of more than $40m and significantly contribute to Iran's ability to develop its oil and gas resources. The US President can impose sanctions by disallowing US financial institutions from providing loans or credits to a sanctioned nation. The sanctions can also be imposed on financial institutions by denying them the right to serve as an agent of US Government repository of its funds or as dealer of its debt instruments. If India is put under sanctions, it will be denied permission to participate in US Government procurement contracts, be restricted from exporting its goods to any US company and denied export-import bank assistance. The sanctions have been criticised as being inconsistent with principles of international law. The European Union and Canada have challenged this legislation, saying that the unilateral measures proposed under the Act have extra-territorial effects which are inadmissible under international law. These countries have argued that the US has no basis in international law to claim the right to regulate transactions undertaken by companies incorporated outside the US and taking place outside the US. Besides, the US allies who have refused to accept this law, Iran too has stated that it is as an inadmissible intervention in its internal and external affairs. Ironically, the Act also states that the US President can show considerable discretion in administering the Act and granting waivers. The sanctions remain in effect for a period of two years or until the President certifies that the country is no longer violating the Act. Thank you United States of America Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy May 21 2005, 04:10 PM

Finally, US is helping us not to have pipe through Pakistan, Whatever, result is good.

Posted by: keshto patel May 21 2005, 11:35 PM

QUOTE (Mudy @ May 22 2005, 04:40 AM)
Finally, US is helping us not to have pipe through Pakistan, Whatever, result is good.
U mean blessing in desguise? Think this; why is US not coercing/pressurising Japan China, France Germany, Italy who do more business with iran day in day out than India. And still doing so? India is weakling.period.

Posted by: Naresh May 22 2005, 12:46 AM

QUOTE (keshto patel @ May 22 2005, 12:05 PM)
U mean blessing in desguise? Think this; why is US not coercing/pressurising Japan China, France Germany, Italy who do more business with iran day in day out than India. And still doing so? India is weakling.period.
keshto patel : The USA is not able to influence India directly. All sorts of notices are “given” to India but it is the “Retriever – Faithful Dog” that will not be allowed to have the Pipe Line pass through Pakistan. Note : L & T is “expanding” the Port of Chah Bahar and India is building the Chah Bahar to Afghanistan & Internal Iran – leading to Turkmenistan – Road and Rail Links. You Ess Ay hasn’t uttered a “Dickie Bird”. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: keshto patel May 22 2005, 12:27 PM

QUOTE (Naresh @ May 22 2005, 01:16 PM)
QUOTE (keshto patel @ May 22 2005, 12:05 PM)
U mean blessing in desguise? Think this; why is US not coercing/pressurising Japan China, France Germany, Italy who do more business with iran day in day out than India. And still doing so? India is weakling.period.
keshto patel : The USA is not able to influence India directly.
This is a misguided statement from you ever, despite knowing that MEA rcvd the threat in the form of open letter, it was not veiled diplomatic talk as before, by this they mean bussines. US wants to restrict Indian progress which is well known. Now if you rewind your memory to past years what you find: No UNSC seat for India. Spying on Indians have been reinforced- Rabindra singh. India arm twisted to not build ICBM Talbot-Jaswant agreement. Pan Parag-supari-gutka-bidis banned in USA. Pressure on India to not fight pakistan despite parliament attack. Psycho wars against Indians. Pre pokharan threats of sanctions if Indian went ahead with explosions. India oreiented CTBT. Cryogenic arm twisting. seventh fleet -1971 nuclear threat. Tarapur fuel denial despite agreement. Arming pakistan against Indians. Trying to broker kashmir deal in favour of Pakistan. And this is just from the top of my head. And these are DIRECT actions against Indians. Dickie bird or dodo, however you take it.

Posted by: Naresh May 22 2005, 02:00 PM

keshto patel : Let us cut to the chase. Do you want India to use a Natural Gas Pipe Line via Pakistan at say Four Billion Cubic Feet per day and Pay USD One Billion as Annual Transit Charges to Pakistan while at the same time be held hostage by Pakistan of having the power to “Cut Off” Gas Supply to India? Cheers

Posted by: keshto patel May 22 2005, 02:54 PM

QUOTE (Naresh @ May 23 2005, 02:30 AM)
keshto patel : Let us cut to the chase. Do you want India to use a Natural Gas Pipe Line via Pakistan at say Four Billion Cubic Feet per day and Pay USD One Billion as Annual Transit Charges to Pakistan while at the same time be held hostage by Pakistan of having the power to “Cut Off” Gas Supply to India? Cheers
I have already said no to this on several forums by saying lets make it a pipe dream for pakis. And now Iranians are saying pakistan armed forces be paid extra 100 million dollars a year with addition to transit fees towards protection of such pipe line. This is absurd for Indians. No peace pipe for Indians. But it should be the sovergn decision of the nation such as india - and not a coercion by US mafia, thats it, thats all, was the gist of my message.

Posted by: Naresh May 22 2005, 04:01 PM

keshto patel : It does not matter as to the colour of the cat as long as it catches mice. Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: keshto patel May 22 2005, 04:32 PM

QUOTE (Naresh @ May 23 2005, 04:31 AM)
keshto patel : It does not matter as to the colour of the cat as long as it catches mice. Cheers cheers.gif
Even the blind squirrel gets a nut here and there, what is a big deal? But handicap he is! Thats the difference.

Posted by: Naresh May 23 2005, 12:54 AM

QUOTE (keshto patel @ May 23 2005, 05:02 AM)
Even the blind squirrel gets a nut here and there, what is a big deal? But handicap he is! Thats the difference.
keshto patel : You are right. By having a Natural Gas Pipe Line via Pakistan India will get Natural Gas here and there, now and then as per Pakistan’s wishes. By constructing a Deep Sea Pipe Line or importing LNG India will get its Energy Supply regularly. It is now your choice to let India have the “blind” squirrel which gets a nut now and then or the “cat” which catches mice 24/365.2425 India’s MEA and MOD are against the Idea of a Pipe Line through Pakistan but MSA has to help his “Cambridge” mate “Kasuri”. Or is it that China wants India’s Energy Jugular to be controlled by its “Lap Dog” i.e. Pakistan? P.S. Can you please let has have your opinion if you feel that it is safe for India to have a Natural Gas Pipe through Pakistan and that the supply will be guaranteed 24/365.2425 without any disruptions whatsoever – in Times of Peace or War or Heightened Tensions? Cheers

Posted by: keshto patel May 23 2005, 02:48 PM

QUOTE (Naresh @ May 23 2005, 01:24 PM)
You are right. By having a Natural Gas Pipe Line via Pakistan India will get Natural Gas here and there, now and then as per Pakistan’s wishes.
The first issue was that of GOI taking their OWN decision or caving in to US threats. Remember you cant negotiate hard if you are weaker and thus at disadvantage. US is unduly pressuring India as always.
By constructing a Deep Sea Pipe Line or importing LNG India will get its Energy Supply regularly.
And what makes you think India is going to go for a alternative (sub sea) with 3 fold expenditure than land pipe line, which can also be sabotaged with agoasta-90?
It is now your choice to let India have the “blind” squirrel which gets a nut now and then or the “cat” which catches mice 24/365.2425
Too many slips between a cup and lip, lets not count our chickens while they are not hatched. Sub sea line would be just one paki tarpedo (made in china) away, nothing India can do there. Did they ever retaliate after parliament attack? did they stop the INDUS flow? my freind you are dealing with Indians.
India’s MEA and MOD are against the Idea of a Pipe Line through Pakistan but MSA has to help his “Cambridge” mate “Kasuri”.
Wrong conclusion. Blue turban sing is honest who would do nothing as such to squander all these billions just to please a muslim colleague who can not be trusted as per sikh religion - ever read guru granth sahib - sikh scripture?
Or is it that China wants India’s Energy Jugular to be controlled by its “Lap Dog” i.e. Pakistan?
Care to explain how is china able to DECIDE on INDIAN project?
P.S. Can you please let has have your opinion if you feel that it is safe for India to have a Natural Gas Pipe through Pakistan and that the supply will be guaranteed 24/365.2425 without any disruptions whatsoever – in Times of Peace or War or Heightened Tensions?
Nothing is gauranteed in this world, there is no free lunch, every experiment costs, risk to reward ratio in India's case must be predetrmined by GOI, considering paki hostile attitude on one hand, and paki unfettered access to 200m a year towards its top army brasses who also share drug (heroin) money. At this point its unclear whether those 200 million a year paki pocket money would be born from whom, would it be rolled into delivered BTUs that India would receive or Iran would cut the cheque. Pakistan already knows our weakness, and that is - that hindus are meek n weak, we dont retaliate, hence they are one up on us in this poker game.

Posted by: Naresh May 23 2005, 03:19 PM

keshto patel : I shall let you ask the questions and supply the answers after the “Peach of a Statement” : And what makes you think India is going to go for a alternative (sub sea) with 3 fold expenditure than land pipe line, which can also be sabotaged with agoasta-90? I shan’t waste my time arguing with a man of you high calibre of knowledge : A submarine with a Maximum Depth Capability of 400 Metres (if that) is going to dive down to 3,500 to 4,000 meters to “Sabotage” the Pipe Line. All the best Cheers cheers.gif

Posted by: Mudy May 23 2005, 03:47 PM

Any deal with party which never honors any treaty should be avoided at any cost. Till date Pakis have never honored any treaty or verbal promise. We have fought four wars. Pakis whole defense strategy is against one country that is India. Why India should trust them. Oil pipeline is strategic decision for India, how can we trust them. Those fools who are handling India’s strategic interest are jeopardizing India’s security.

Posted by: keshto patel May 23 2005, 05:03 PM

I shan’t waste my time arguing with a man of you high calibre of knowledge : A submarine with a Maximum Depth Capability of 400 Metres (if that) is going to dive down to 3,500 to 4,000 meters to “Sabotage” the Pipe Line.
Assuming the pipeline to start from souther tip of bandar abbas starting from strait of hormuz where the mean depth is 33 meters and continuing through gulf of oman whose mean depth is about 800 meters, infant attitude apart, what would stop agosta-90 to not hit the pipeline at that given depth from gwadar port? FYI pakistani coastline comprises of gulf of oman and arabian sea. Just check lattitude at 25 degree north and longtitude at 62 degree east, what you find? southern tip of pakistani border with iran facing gulf of oman from its border! 3,500 to 4,000 meters depth is a horse manure if you take Strait of Hormuz and Gulf of Oman into consideration from where the pipline should pass (submerged). If you have more lessons for me on hydrology of the given region, I am all ears. Enough said.

Posted by: keshto patel May 23 2005, 05:10 PM

Any deal with party which never honors any treaty should be avoided at any cost. Till date Pakis have never honored any treaty or verbal promise. We have fought four wars. Pakis whole defense strategy is against one country that is India. Why India should trust them. Oil pipeline is strategic decision for India, how can we trust them. Those fools who are handling India’s strategic interest are jeopardizing India’s security.
Yes sir. But, since delhi block is still toying with such idea, hence you find such pros n cons around. It should be big no no for India. But who would leash these (south block) dogs who keep on barking without success;)

Posted by: keshto patel May 23 2005, 06:01 PM

Interesting! Look how Hindustan Times erred.,00050004.htm Indonesia offers visa-on-arrival for Indians

The Indonesian government will extend visa-on-arrival facility to nationalists of 16 countries including India in a bid to attract more tourists, reports Xinhua.
The word in question should read nationals and not nationalists.LOLL This way only our Modis likes would qualify, which is okey for me.

Posted by: Naresh May 23 2005, 11:22 PM

keshto patel : Get out from under the Horse Manure and learn about the “Deep Sea Pipe Line” Cheers

Posted by: keshto patel May 24 2005, 01:56 PM

QUOTE (Naresh @ May 24 2005, 11:52 AM)
keshto patel : Get out from under the Horse Manure and learn about the “Deep Sea Pipe Line”
It is for those who are burried under 4,000 meters that also in the strait of Hormuz. LOLLL

Posted by: Naresh May 24 2005, 03:06 PM

QUOTE (keshto patel @ May 25 2005, 02:26 AM)
It is for those who are burried under 4,000 meters that also in the strait of Hormuz. LOLLL
keshto patel : It is better that you stay in the Horse Manure in the Strait of Hormuz as apparently you do not have a clue about the "Deep Sea Pipe Line" Yes you are a highly educated Hydraulics Engineer as I see you use such big words like "Latitude" and "Longitude". You also used the big word "Degrees" - Are they Celsius or Fahrenheit? Cheers cheers.gif 

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