India Forum Archives
Wednesday, March 02, 2005
  Gujarat Riots
Posted by: agasthiyan Nov 28 2003, 04:37 PM
it's been more than a year since the riots, but still there is so much confusion about it. (at least for me, thats why i am starting this topic) so many lies, half-truths, arguments... i feel it is important for us indians to know what exactly happened in gujarat whenever the topic is brought up, we find indians either going "oh it is shameful, it is a blot on indian secular ethos etc etc" or like "they had it coming, we need to show the muslims their place, etc etc" it is made out in the media as if the thousands of years of proven indian ( hindu) tolerance and values were demolished by the riots. i even read some paki views that gujarat validates pakistan , in the sense that muslims will be persecuted by hindus and thats why pak was created blah blah. in short whenever indian secularism is brought up, gujarat is also brought up as though it is proof that india is not safe for muslims etc... but what exactly happened, were the riots spontaneous due to godhra incident? or was it "engineered" by sangh parivar what part did the state machinery play ( or not play)? were they abetting or simply looked the other way? btw, i was in Gujarat Dec last year, u can feel the polarisation of the communites. for ex, i was explicitly advised by my colleagues, where to go and where not to go based on who was majority in which area... cheers
Posted by: agasthiyan Nov 28 2003, 04:39 PM
found this article by gurumurthy http://www.newindpress.com/column/Column.asp?ID=IEH20021220013649&P=old
Posted by: Bhootnath Nov 29 2003, 05:02 AM
agasthiyan hi, Few queries While you were in Gujarat, where all you did you go I mean districts or cities, how many days you spent there ? Are you Gujarati ? What is your opinion ? I am sure year+ is enough time to have some approximation. Thanks for you reply ...
Posted by: Bhootnath Nov 29 2003, 05:04 AM
Oops.. 1 more Q during the entire incident and later what all media you were following ? And in your opinion do you thing Media was unbiased ( either way ).
Posted by: vishal Nov 29 2003, 10:12 PM
agasthiyan ji, if you followed western or indian media then forget the truth.You will never get complete truth from anywhere.Its impossible.Every media in the world is ownmed by some handfull of people.Now these people has different types of views.Sot every news channel portrayed whole gujarat as riot affected thing. Its my suggestion to you forget that bloody thing now.Because if you read it then you will only get bloody pictures everywhere in media,nothing usefull or judgeble. Every news channel USED this incident for achieving their self-goals.THIS IS MODERN WORLD,MEDIA IS NEVER NEUTRAL IN THIS WORLD AND TIME. So plz don't burn your heart and waste time reading use-less,pathetic reports of media(be it indian or western,all are same...bcoz after all its follows people who own them!) IMO, job of media is to minimize effects of unfortunate riots.But if you see indian media, they have always used every incident in gujarat TO FURTHER PROVOKE PEOPLE by showing burnt bodies for continuously 15-20 seconds.They don't care how childrens will be hoffified and affected with this. Indian MEdia follow their owners and are sense-less.Its no more that FREE-NEUTRAL media that existed at time of Independance campaign and mahatma's time. so its my request and suggestion to you don't waste time on reading use-less reporting on riots because at the end you will end up frustrated and angry and furious.....whats the use?....you may need a psychiatrist then!...(its so bloody...media kept it 100% bloody to provoke people) and i am sure you will be provoked after reading media. Though if you have such desire to know about those riots then hear my opinion too. IMO, media was a big hidden factor behind provoking people in gujarat and some politicians also did it.Congress gave political colour to riots and that was reason gujarat kicked them in election. Most pathetic feeling that we have today in india is MEDIA STILL IS TRYING TO PROVOKE PEOPLE BY REPEATEDLY SHOWING pictures of what happened before.! anyway, again i repeat to you and your friends, forget it and tell others to keep distance from bloody-provoking indian media. thanks.
Posted by: agasthiyan Nov 30 2003, 09:23 PM
bhoothnath ( thats a scary name biggrin.gif ) no , i am not a gujarati, i am a tamilian, who happened to stay in ahmedabad for a month last december. reg the media , they behaved as expected. gory images and sensationalism. verdict given even b4 investigations etc. the cheapest was the front page foto of a muslim guy pleading a mob ( qutbuddin ? i think, he later settled in WB ). vishal - thanks for ur reply. it is a very agonising topic and heart burning ,for all concerned indians. i can never forget it since i happened to meet in person many victims. it was gruesome. but the point is , there is so much misinformation and propoganda on gujarat. even if we want to forget and move on, our enemies won't. what i am interested in knowing is how much of the riots were "engineered" and how much of it was spontaneous ( not that i mean that if it was spontaneous , it is OK or such thing). especially the behavior of state machinery , the police. a friend told me that in some areas, police did try to stop riots by shooting and patrolling , but in areas of known hindu extremists, they did not interfere. ( i am interested in knowing what is the verdict now on this) i personally, saw muslim houses and businesses specifically targeted. i mean , there will be a row of houses, and a particular house will be gutted and it would be a muslim house. it was a conscious effort to "drive" them away, ( to where?, i do not know) in old ahmedabad, in several housing colonies, people had to vacate and go to colonies where they were majorities. similar thing happened in many areas. i fear that the communities are totally polarised now. i hope the recent visit by kalam on his birthday would have healed atleast some wounds. also, i am very interested and concerned in the justice after the riots. what is ur opinion on that. obviously the modi govt is dragging its heels. i feel that justice done will go a long way in the grievances not to grow further.
Posted by: Kaushal Nov 30 2003, 10:19 PM
I second the notion that we need to know the UNVARNISHED truth and not hearsay ( I personally heard ....). Every story must be corroborated and sat the end justice shuld be done and the guilty should be punished. there should be no compromise on that score.
Posted by: muddur Dec 1 2003, 12:49 AM
The last few paragraphs in this article could provide some pointers as to what might have happened in Gujarat. India gains new respect in Muslim world By Sultan Shahin http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EK25Df04.html
Posted by: Mudy Dec 1 2003, 10:14 AM
agasthiyan, What had happened in Gujarat was combination of Godhra and for decades of frustration among Hindu community. My Uncle used to live in Daryapur which was his ancestral home (Big house built by his great grand father), decided to buy property in new area and moved out of Darayapur 8-9 years back because of continuous harassment by Muslim community. I have never visited Gujarat but familiar with two places in Ahemdabad that was Karupur (as how he pronounce) and Darayapur. When ever there are baby riots, these two names will appear by default. One can’t do Ganesha or Durga puja in these places. Riots can start on any mundane reason like kite flying or small cycle accident or low water pressure. End result will be 3 or 4 hindu guys will be stabbed etc. State Govt. never used to take any action against Muslim community because of vote bank. Godhra was trigger; Police man inaction was not new. Only difference this time was swap of receiving end. Casualty was same as 1969 or may be less than 1969.
Posted by: rhytha Dec 1 2003, 11:10 AM
QUOTE (muddur @ Dec 1 2003, 01:19 PM)
The last few paragraphs in this article could provide some pointers as to what might have happened in Gujarat. India gains new respect in Muslim world By Sultan Shahin http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EK25Df04.html
Is that true that no arab country voiced concerns about gujrat riots, thats quite strange?? unsure.gif
Posted by: mitradena Dec 1 2003, 01:31 PM
Th author of this article - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EK25Df04.html - mentions that the "whole of central gujarat was cleansed of muslims". Is this really true? What districts are included in Central Gujarat? user posted image
Posted by: Mudy Dec 1 2003, 03:53 PM
mitradena, Do you think it is possible to cleanse?
Posted by: muddur Dec 1 2003, 07:34 PM
rhytha, The point to note from that link is that Pakistan is trying to open another front away from Kashmir for infiltration, with KARACHI as the base for their operations. That makes Gujarat a perfect place to use for infiltration. May be the Pakis tried to create the Hindu Muslim divide and use the violence as an opportunity to open up another front against India, for infiltration. Our dorky english media's behaviour, as usual will help the Pakistani motives. IMO, Gujarat perhaps avoided becoming another Kashmir for India. Gujaratis perhaps blocked the Paki plan to infiltrate terrorists into INdia using the Gujarati borders.
Posted by: mitradena Dec 1 2003, 09:42 PM
Hi Mudy, I personally think it is impossible to "cleanse" Gujarat in such a short time. But this is just my opinion. I would like to get some hard facts from people on the ground.
Posted by: agasthiyan Dec 2 2003, 07:07 PM
Hi i believe that there was an attempt to atleast intimidate, but how much of it had official backing, i do not know. ( are there any Gujus here who can give a clear view of what happened in the ground?) i did get "they were appeased all along, we need to put them in their place, they had it coming " kinda arguments from people from many backgrounds. it was painful to hear such views. sad.gif btw, there is another "conspiracy theory" in the paki world that extremist hindus torched the train themselves , so as to have an excuse for rioting. apparently , there is a report that the fire started from "inside" the coaches, and this is used to support the "theory" DUHH!!!, if u pour inflammable liquid inside and set fire, the fire has to start from the inside. pakee.gif
Posted by: rhytha Dec 2 2003, 11:10 PM
plp watch what your saying here, any DDM can and take a look here and write a stupid -ev psy-ops. There is no stopping them, they are not accountable at all. Plz don't use words like "cleanse" graduated.gif
Posted by: Mudy Dec 3 2003, 10:06 AM
First day of riots are based on emotion after some shocking incidence e.g 1984, 1969, 1947, 1945. People from all walk of life get involved, "Mob". After second days on average "Gunda element" take over and it is free for all. e.g. India, Oakland, CA, St.Louis, MI, Cincinati, OH. Heavy hand to control riots rarely works but can create more problem. e.g watch US or Europe. It is always better to go back to root cause of problem to resolve issue and pacify emotions.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Dec 11 2003, 06:05 AM
Muslim ethnic cleansing of kafirs in Dariapur is a worldwide phenomenon In the MD.Srinivas book the census shows that happening at a district level But the same thing is probably happening at the local town level too Muslims do low level cleansing so as not to attract attention of army All communally sensitive spots in India are those with muslims over 25% There are no riots in areas where muslims are below 5%
Posted by: Krishna Dec 13 2003, 04:36 PM
Here you go folks: All mighty britain thinks it's all the Hindus' fault. let's bow down to the masters and listen to them! rolleyes.gif rolleyes.gif 'Gujarat pogrom being rewritten' http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/357037.cms
Posted by: Kaushal Dec 13 2003, 06:12 PM
QUOTE
Th author of this article - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EK25Df04.html - mentions that the "whole of central gujarat was cleansed of muslims". Is this really true?
If there is etthnic cleansing in Gujarat, how is it that the percentage of muslims in Gujarat is steadily increasing and is now over 12% IIRC. At the time of independence it was probably around 9%. Contrast with pakistan which is adjacent to Gujarat. In 1947 even after the Partition migrations there were 15% hindus in Pakistan (or rougly 5 million). Today that number is down to 1 to 2 million and the percentage is around 1%. What happened to the rest ? I think it is a fair guess that there was extensive ethnic cleansing in pakistan. In India also there is ethnic cleansing. But the ones who are being cleansed are Hindus not Muslims.
Posted by: Mudy Dec 22 2003, 01:01 PM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_505045,000900040003.htm Ahmedabad, December 23 A BJP leader in Ahmedabad has filed a complaint against noted writer Vijay Tendulkar, accusing him of trying to disturb communal harmony. In his complaint, Rajbhai Zala said Tendulkar has tried to disturb communal harmony by making a "derogatory" statement in public against Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, police said. Tendulkar was quoted as saying in the complaint to police that if he was given a gun he would kill Modi first for spreading communal hatred.
Posted by: shiv Dec 23 2003, 08:26 AM
QUOTE
Is that true that no arab country voiced concerns about gujrat riots, thats quite strange??
My piskolgical mind tells me that this question is the result of a constant battering by Pakistan on the Indian mind saying "We, Pakistan, represent Islam. All muslims are with us, and what we say muslims say, the Arabs, The Persians, the whoevers of the ummah say what we say aloud in one voice .. la illaha etc etc" So when a part of Pakistan's "islamic world" does NOT say something that Pakistan has said we wake up and say "What was that?" - like the old men who had slept peacefully under the bell in a clock tower for 40 years. On night the clock faild to strike 12 - and the old man woke up and sauid "What was that?"
Posted by: Mudy Dec 23 2003, 10:34 AM
QUOTE
We, Pakistan, represent Islam. All muslims are with us
It became stronger after acquiring nuclear weapon and Afghanistan jehad. But now it is creating problem to their H&D.
Posted by: k.ram Dec 23 2003, 10:41 AM
Title: Latest from Gujarat: Godhra anti-national, it will help our case Author: Janyala Sreenivas Publication: Indian Express Date: Apr 30, 2002 URL: http://www.indian-express.com/full_story.php?content_id=1822 MoS Home cites ‘events since 1927’ Ahmedabad, April 29: Gujarat Minister of State for Home Gordhan Zadaphia said today that to ‘‘tighten the noose’’ and ‘‘strengthen’’ the chargesheet in the Godhra attack, the government will use what he calls the ‘‘anti-national’’ history of the town. For this, he has prepared a dossier which lists events from as early as 1927. This latest spin to the Godhra attack, in which 58 were killed and which set off the carnage, comes after the police have sent conflicting signals regarding the investigation. While Inspector General of Police (Railways) P P Agja told The Indian Express that he doubts the involvement of ISI, Rakesh Asthana, the new Deputy Inspector General (CID-Crime), who has taken over the investigation, says the ‘‘ISI angle cannot be ruled out.’’ Now Zadaphia has added his own interpretation. ‘‘The historical facts about Godhra right from the day before India got independence can be used in the chargesheet to strengthen it and prove that Godhra has always been anti-national. The attack on kar sevaks was one such incident in its history,’’ said Zadaphia speaking to The Indian Express. Although he admits that ‘‘legally, I do not know how we can use this in court,’’ he adds in the same breath: ‘‘The anti-national history of Godhra will definitely form part of the chargesheets to tighten the noose against the culprits.’’ For this, he says his Ministry has prepared a ‘‘detailed note’’ which lists ‘‘incidents’’ since 1927. A sample: • 1927: One P M Shah was killd by Muslims after a scuffle. • 1946: MLA of interim government Sadar Ali Haji flew kites on ‘Uttarayan’ with ‘Pakistan Zindabad’ written on them. ‘‘He was later posted as governor of a province in Pakistan,’’ the dossier says. • 1948: D M Pimplekar, a watchman, was killed in private firing. • 1948: On March 24, a milkman was killed and shops of several Hindus were torched. • 1948: On August 15, the national flag was burnt by Muslim teachers in Godhra and by hotel owner M K Hussain Sayeed. The same day, Niranjan Natwar Shah, a teacher in Muslim School, was dismissed for singing Vande Mataram. • 1965: Hindu shops in Godhra were burnt down by hotel owners Bidani and Bhopa. Police sub-inspector Raval was attacked by Sikandar Mewan and Abdul Aziz Khada at Salma Dabha. • 1980: Five Hindus, including two children aged 5 and 7, were burnt alive by a mob led by a woman, Amina Bibi, at Signal Falia, the same place where the attack on Sabarmati Express occurred. • 1990: On November 28, four Hindu teachers, including two women, teaching at the Vorwad Saphia Madrasa in Godhra, were killed. They included Praveen Shah, Pravina Dave, Kamlesh Pandya and Saroj Barot. • And the latest, 2002: On February 27, 58 burnt alive in an attack on Sabarmati Express. When asked if he still believed there was an ISI involvement in the Godhra attack, Zadaphia said: ‘‘To understand why the Godhra attack happened, you must first look at the history of Godhra. Then you will understand everything.’’
Posted by: mitradena Dec 23 2003, 10:59 AM
The historical angle is interesting. Isn't Godhra the birthplace of Aurangazeb?
Posted by: agasthiyan Dec 23 2003, 01:24 PM
QUOTE (mitradena @ Dec 23 2003, 11:29 PM)
The historical angle is interesting. Isn't Godhra the birthplace of Aurangazeb?
this says so http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cms.dll/articleshow?art_ID=2400828 Besides being the birthplace of the zealot Mughal emperor Aurangzeb, the twin towns of Dahod and Godhra have always been known for the religious divide that runs deep between communities and even within them.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Dec 25 2003, 08:58 AM
This article makes it clear that Juhupura was 30% muslim in 1984 and became 100% muslim by 2003 It also says that hindus were terrorised into selling their property and fleeing http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEO20031221065415&Page=O&Title=This+is+India&Topic=0& Of 'Pundit Bibi' and other secularists at Gujarat school Monday December 22 2003 00:00 IST IANS AHMEDABAD: It is a school where a woman Muslim teacher imparts Sanskrit lessons and where Muslim students can rattle off stories from the Hindu epic Mahabharata. It is a school where Muslim students and a teacher heroically protected Hindus from rampaging mobs during communal violence in Gujarat. Welcome to Shantiniketan Vidyalaya, run by a Hindu in the almost exclusively Muslim area of Juhapura here. Mansuri Husseina, who teaches Sanskrit, is the only Muslim teacher there and is a shining example of social harmony in a communally cleaved state. Wearing a sari and sporting a bindi, she has come to be known as "Pundit Bibi" or Muslim scholar of Sanskrit in Juhapura, one of the largest Muslim settlements in India with a 400,000-odd population. Such is her popularity and influence that last year some 1,000 students of the school made a human chain to protect the lives of the Hindu teachers and students when the riots broke. "In March last year, a marauding mob from Juhapura lay siege to our school," Husseina told IANS. "My Hindu colleagues were terrified and were about to flee. I was the only Muslim teacher and I told them not to panic. I assured them that I would stop the mob. "All Muslim students supported me and we stood at the gate of the school defiantly. Soon parents of Muslim students also came to our rescue. "The mob that had come to attack the school turned away. Never again has any Hindu felt threatened while coming to our school," Husseina told IANS. Husseina, who has a bachelor's degree in Sanskrit, has been teaching at the Shantiniketan Vidyalaya for 14 years. Secularism is the essence of Shantiniketan Vidyalaya. "I did not want my children to be educated in madrassas. Religious preaching cuts one apart from mainstream society," said Jamal Shaikh, a businessman in Juhapura. "My two sons are better off being taught by Hindu teachers in Shantiniketan Vidyalaya." Teachers there make it a point to impart lessons in humanity and secularism. Gujarati teacher Heena Shukla loves to tell the tales of Mahabharata, Ramayana, "Arabian Nights" and "Hatimtai" to her students. No wonder, attendance in her class is always full. "Children, irrespective of their faith, are innocent souls and we teachers strive to help them retain their innocence," she says. "I love the Mahabharata, and Bhim is my favourite character," chuckles Mohammed Shabir, a Class 5 student. Shantiniketan Vidyalaya trustee Ranchorbhai Kiri said, "When I founded the school in 1984, only 30 percent of students were Muslims. "But after successive violence in Gujarat, Hindus sold their houses and went to Hindu-dominated areas." According to Kiri, many advised him to shift the school to a Hindu locality. "But I chose to place my trust in Muslim residents. I knew that humanity is above every religion, and today I know I was right."
Posted by: Viren Dec 26 2003, 11:33 AM
http://www.ndtv.com/template/completetimeline.asp?template1=Gujaratviolence
Posted by: Mudy Dec 26 2003, 12:42 PM
Viren, Did you notice timeline started from Feb 27, 2002: Vajpayee cancels Australia visit . No mention of Godhra incidence and problem started two days before Godhra carnage. I called it, DDM at its best.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 12 2004, 08:19 PM
http://www.saag.org/papers9/paper891.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paper no. 891 12. 01. 2004 Politics By Other Means: An Analysis of Human Rights Watch Reports on India. Guest Column-by Arvin Bahl Human Rights Watch is a prominent New York based organisation wielding considerable influence on American policymakers and on western perceptions of India. Unfortunately, their reports on events in India have been one-sided and biased. Rather than making an objective assessment of communal violence and human rights violations, the reports generally are based on half-truths, distortions and sometimes outright falsehoods. For too long these reports have gone unchallenged. Here is a detailed analysis of some of the recent reports of Human Rights Watch and an attempt has been made to set the record straight. The views expressed are the author’s own. Director. Executive Summary: After the Godhra incident of February 2002, Human Rights Watch (HRW) in a widely publicized report titled, “We Have No Orders to Save You: State Complicity and Communal Violence in Gujarat,” published in April 30, 2002, claimed that the post-Godhra violence was planned even before the Godhra incident occurred and the attacks on Muslims in Gujarat were “state sponsored.” HRW has authored many reports on communal violence and human rights in India such as a 1999 report on anti-Christian violence and two reports on the Mumbai riots of 1992-1993 in addition to its annual reports on human rights practices worldwide. Upon closer examination, it is seen that extensive and systematic bias exists in these reports. Their most glaring defect is the lack of concern for the rights and lives of the majority community- the Hindus. Incidents of communal violence in which both the Hindu majority and a particular minority community were involved in and share the blame for are portrayed as one-sided attacks by Hindus against “innocent minorities.” Human rights abuses against Hindus are either ignored or downplayed as compared to abuses suffered by minority groups. In the 1995 report on the Mumbai riots, HRW sought to place the blame for the violent events exclusively on the Hindu community and completely ignored the role of Muslim communalism in the riots. This should be compared with a more objective report on the occurrences by the Srikrishna Commission. There was not a single eyewitness account of attacks on Hindus in the HRW report even though Hindus had also suffered many casualties! Again, the 1999 HRW report on attacks on Christians in India blamed Hindu nationalists for all the violence, totally ignoring news reports and individual testimonies which go against such generalizations. Even more disturbing, this report demonstrated hostility towards the Hindu religion itself. It also attributed the 1984 anti-Sikh riots following the assassination of Indira Gandhi to the right-wing Hindu groups, while it is common knowledge that the riots were instigated by Congress Party goons! HRW’s most extensive publication on India was its 2002 report on the Gujarat violence. The report claimed that the attacks on Muslims were all state sponsored and planned in advance of the Godhra incident. Virtually all the blame for the violence is placed on the Sangh Parivar and BJP government. A detailed examination of the events shows that elements of both planning by Hindu extremists and a spontaneous uprising of the populace at the outrage of Godhra were present in the Gujarat violence. HRW, however, did not provide one iota of evidence in the report to back up its assertion of the state having planned the violence in advance. It also dramatically distorted the role of the police in the Gujarat violence. The bias is further confirmed when the report titled the chapter on attacks on Hindus as “Retaliatory Attacks on Hindus” while the chapter on attacks on Muslims was titled, “Overview of the Attacks Against Muslims.” While the Hindu mobs were said to have chanted “Jai Sri Ram” when attacking Muslims, the report conveniently avoided incidents where the Muslim mobs shouted “Kill Hindus. Allah is with us” when attacking Hindus. The purpose of this paper is not to ignore the role played by Hindu extremist groups in promoting communal conflicts. Hindu extremists were unquestionably involved in the attacks against Muslims in Gujarat. Furthermore, the Modi government willfully neglected its duty to protect the rights and lives of its citizens and promoted further communal polarization in a state with already tense communal relations. Rather, this paper is an attempt to objectively analyze the complexity of communal conflict in India and avoid the generalizations associated with HRW reports. Politics by Other Means: An Analysis of Human Rights Watch Reports on India In the aftermath of the Godhra massacre of Hindus on February 27, 2002, it became evident to most that Gujarat had become a communal cauldron, that Chief Minister Narendra Modi willfully did not do enough to curb the violence that ensued after the massacre, and that members of radical Hindu groups such as the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Bajrang Dal were involved in bloody attacks against Muslims. Worse, Modi promoted communal polarization in the state and won a landslide victory in the Gujarat assembly elections in December 2002 with a campaign playing on anti-Muslim fears and prejudice. Yet, some used extreme language to describe the post-Godhra situation in Gujarat. One often hears frequent comparisons of Modi to Milosevic and even Hitler. The situation in Gujarat had often been compared to Nazi Germany and terms like “ethnic cleansing,” “genocide,” and “state sponsored pogrom” still appear frequently. Many “human rights organizations” and “fact finding missions” came to Gujarat and described the situation in such a manner. One such view of the situation is given by the prominent New York based human rights group, Human Rights Watch (HRW), in a widely publicized report titled, “We Have No Orders to Save You: State Complicity and Communal Violence in Gujarat” published April 30, 2002. It claims that the post-Godhra violence was planned even before the Godhra incident occurred and the attacks on Muslims in Gujarat were “state sponsored.” HRW has authored many reports on communal violence and human rights in India such as a 1999 report on anti-Christian violence in India, and two reports on the Mumbai riots of 1992-1993 in addition to its annual reports on human rights practices worldwide. Upon closer examination, however, extensive and systematic bias exists in HRW reports on human rights and communal violence in India. The most glaring defect of HRW reports is the lack of concern for the rights and lives of Hindus. Incidents of communal violence in which both the Hindu majority and a particular minority community were involved in and share the blame for are portrayed as one-sided attacks by Hindus against “innocent minorities.” Human rights abuses against Hindus are ignored or downplayed compared to attacks against other religious groups. The 1999 report on attacks on Christians goes a step further as it demonstrates hostility to the Hindu religion itself. Rather than attempting to provide an objective assessment of communal violence and human rights practices in India, HRW's reports are written with the intent of waging political warfare against the BJP government and the Sangh Parivar. It is true that groups like the VHP and Bajrang Dal have been responsible for promoting a disturbing form of religious intolerance that undermines India’s long traditions of religious pluralism and tolerance. But upon reading HRW's reports on communal violence and human rights, one would think that the BJP and the Sangh Parivar are responsible for all that is wrong in India and they are the ones who invented communal violence. HRW's reports on India are frequently filled with many distortions, half-truths, and outright false statements. The nature and the extent of bias areis such that it is not the result of mere negligence, but systematic bias that reveals political motives. This paper is an attempt to examine such reports by HRW, with particular focus on HRW’s report on the 2002 communal violence in Gujarat. Annual Reports on Human Rights Developments in India The 2000 HRW report on human rights developments in India begins by stating: The Hindu nationalist policies espoused by India's governing Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) and its affiliate organizations undermined the country's historical commitment to secular democracy. Violence against Christian, Muslim, and Dalit, or "untouchable," populations was one result. Some of the actions of the Modi government in Gujarat have undermined India’s commitment to secular democracy, but it is hard to see what policies adopted by the BJP government at the Centre prior to the events in Gujarat and at the time of the report’s publication “undermined secular democracy.” In fact, Freedom House, an NGO that has annually rated political freedom in every country in the world since 1972, has indicated that since the BJP came to power, political freedom has actually slightly improved. Both political rights and civil liberties fared better under the BJP-led NDA government than under the Congress government, which ruled from 1991-1996.[i][ii] In addition, any of the party’s policies that could possibly “undermine the country’s historical commitment to secular democracy” could not have been implemented due to the fact that the BJP is in a multi-party coalition, comprised of parties that depend on Muslim votes and which are not supportive of Hindu nationalism. The BJP has in fact adopted pro-Muslim policies such as increasing subsidies for hajj pilgrimages to Mecca. Exit polls showed that between 7% and 16% of Muslims voted for the BJP in the February 1998 elections.[ii] Also, many policies of the BJP that have not been implemented, such as imposing an Uniform Civil Code and making changes to Article 30 in the Indian Constitution to end discrimination against Hindus would actually strengthen secularism. As for the second sentence, Hindu-Muslim riots had actually decreased in the time period since the BJP came to power and the Gujarat riots started. As journalist K.P. Nayar notes, in this time period India had seen the lowest record of communal riots in all of the previous 10 years.[iii][iii] Likewise, Tavleen Singh, writing in India Today a few months after the BJP first came to power at the Centre notes, “ Few people have noticed that there have been no communal riots in India since Vajpayee became prime minister. Remember the Congress' record of one major communal riot every few months? Meerut, Maliana, Bhagalpur, Moradabad, Mumbai”.[iv][v] ” Many BJP state governments have bright records with regards to containing communal violence. In Uttar Pradesh, four chief ministers performed as follows: under V.P. Singh, the monthly average of casualties (dead and wounded) in communal violence was 29, the monthly average number of Muslims killed was eight; for N.D. Tiwari the figures were 28 and three; for Mulayam Singh Yadav they were 98 and 17; and for Kalyan Singh of the BJP they were five and one.[v][vi] Keep in mind that Mulayam Singh Yadav and V.P. Singh are widely considered to be amongst the most pro-Muslim politicians in India. Most troubling, however, is linking violence against Dalits to the BJP and the Sangh Parivar. One can argue that groups such as the RSS and VHP are hostile towards Muslim and Christian minorities. But are these groups anti-Dalit? The core of Hindu nationalist ideology is “political unity among Hindus.[vi][vii]” Caste divisions are seen as a threat to this unity.[vii][viii] As The Economist notes, “the bulk of the party’s [BJP] thinkers are reformers who seek a modern Hinduism purged of caste and sex discrimination”.[viii][ix]” Nevertheless, the notion that the Sangh Parivar wants to prop up the caste system is spread throughout HRW' reports, particularly the 1999 report on anti-Christian violence. In HRW’s report on caste violence titled, “Broken People: Caste Violence Against India’s Untouchables,” nothing is said about the role of the BJP or the Sangh Parivar in orchestrating violence against Dalits. Most of the cases of caste violence cited in the 2000 report on human rights developments in India take place in Bihar, a state not run by the BJP. Moreover, as the same report notes, the caste violence in Bihar was something in which both upper caste Hindu and lower caste Hindu militias were involved. In the 13th Lok Sabha, the BJP has far more Dalit MPs than any other party. In addition, as we will see in this paper, what HRW refers to as violence against Christians and Muslims is actually violence in which both the majority and minority communities were involved. Elsewhere, the report states: In June, a series of blasts damaged Christian churches in Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, and Goa. A month later, crude bombs were set off in two more churches in Karnataka. In August, police charged members of a Muslim sect, allegedly based in Pakistan, with masterminding the attacks. Human rights activists maintained that the arrests were meant to deflect attention from Hindu hardliners' campaign of anti-Christian violence. (Emphasis added) Police investigations revealed that Deendar Anjuman, a Muslim terrorist group with links to Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), confessed that its members were involved in carrying out the bomb blasts. Pamphlets containing anti-Christian sentiments with the inscription of “Om” on them were seized by police from one of the outfit’s offices and the house of a member named Ibrahim.[ix][x] The fact that despite this police evidence and confessions, HRW and other so-called “human rights activists,” blame “Hindu hardliners” for these blasts demonstrates the systematic bias in HRW reports. In the 2002 report on human rights development in India, HRW states: The government drew sharp criticism from numerous minority groups for selectively banning the Students Islamic Movement of India (SIMI) as part of its post-September 11 actions to counter terrorism while ignoring the ‘anti-national’ activities of right-wing Hindu groups. At least four people were killed when police opened fire on a protest in Lucknow on September 27 following the arrest of some SIMI activists. It is quite amazing, even by HRW standards, that it would criticize the banning of the infamous SIMI and define the ban on the Islamic terrorist group as “selective banning.” SIMI is a notorious “student” group, which has been linked to Islamic terrorist groups that have planned and carried out numerous terrorist acts and other crimes. HRW is absurdly insinuating that the government banned SIMI due to anti-Muslim bias and partisan politics. The government’s primary reason for banning SIMI is its links to Pakistan’s ISI [x][xi], which actively sponsors terrorism in India. Even state governments not run by the BJP have cracked down on SIMI considering its threat to national security.[xi][xii] In the aftermath of the 1992-1993 Mumbai riots, the Congress government banned “right-wing Hindu groups” such as the VHP. When an organization is banned, a tribunal is required to determine if the ban is valid or not. The tribunal overturned the ban on the VHP. By contrast, the ban on SIMI was upheld by the tribunal. [xii][xiii] The Mumbai Riots In a 1995 HRW report titled, “Playing the Communal Card,” the 1992-1993 Mumbai riots are extensively examined. Upon closer examination of the report, one finds that it is extremely biased. The report seeks to place the blame for the violent events exclusively on the Hindu community and ignores the role of Muslim communalism in the Mumbai riots. The HRW report is so biased that even by examining the Srikrishna Report, a report which HRW and leftist NGOs repeatedly call to be implemented and is viewed as biased by right-wing commentators, one can see the inconsistencies, inaccuracies, and distortions of the HRW report. In the beginning of the report, it is mentioned: During the week following the events in Ayodhya, Muslims held public demonstrations in the streets of Bombay, targeted not against Hindus, but against the government, which had failed to prevent the destruction of the mosque. This is simply absurd and is an attempt to show the righteousness and innocence of Muslim demonstrators. As the Srikrishna Report notes, from December 7 onwards, “large mobs of Muslims came on the streets and there was recourse taken to violence without doubt.” For example, in Nirmal Nagar jurisdiction, “ a Ganesh idol in the Ganesh Mandir on Anant Kanekar Marg was found decapitated and moved out from its place of installation and eleven temples in different jurisdictions were damaged, demolished or set on fire.” Especially troubling is HRW’s reporting of encounters between Muslims and the police. HRW repeatedly accuses the police of brutality against Muslims. It is true that the police wereas too aggressive and even brutal at times in their treatment of the mobs, but little is said of the horrific attacks on police officers by Muslims that led to the use of aggressive methods. HRW places more blame on the police for alleged brutality against Muslims, than on the violent behavior the caused the need for police involvement in the first place. In reading the report, one is inclined to view the police, rather than the mobs as the aggressor. Below are some selections from the Srikrishna Report that document the type of violence inflicted on the police by Muslim mobs. This time the Muslim mobs appear to have come out with the intention of mounting violent attacks as noticed from their preparedness with weapons of offence. There were violent attacks on the policemen in Muslim dominated areas… Two Constables in Deonar jurisdiction were killed with choppers and swords by the rampaging Muslims. .. Jogeshwari area, which has been the hotbed of frequent communal riots, saw serious riots at the junction of Pascal Colony and Shankarwadi. A police officer carrying on his duty received a bullet injury in his head and died subsequently, though it cannot be said with certitude that it was a case of private firing. The police recovered large number of iron rods, sickles, choppers, knives and soda water bottles from different jurisdictions indicating that there was intention and preparations to carry on the communal riots (emphasis added). None of these incidents are included in the HRW report. Indeed, HRW seems to downplay the violence perpetrated by Muslims against police officers. For example, it states, “Many of these spontaneous gatherings, particularly in south and central Bombay, degenerated into violent attacks against police officers.” But as can be seen from above, many of these were not mere “spontaneous gatherings” that “degenerated into violent attacks” but pre-planned attacks. HRW also asserts, “ In addition to firing on demonstrators, police entered Muslim households, conducted arbitrary arrests, tortured those arrested, burned down homes, and fired on defenseless residents.” It is true that arbitrary arrests, torturing, and burning down homes occurred and are all indefensible. But considering the violent activities of Muslims, police had reason to search their houses and localities (but should have done so in a manner that respected human rights). But by reading the HRW report, which makes little mention of the violent activities carried out by Muslims, one would not know this. While the report mentions firings, tortures, and arbitrary arrest, no mention is made of weapons recovered by the police. As Rediff columnist Arvind Lavakare notes, “ With respect to an operation launched in January 1993 by the Mumbai police's special squad against suspected terrorists holed up in a known Muslim locality, Srikant Bapat, the city's police commissioner, had stated in his affidavit before the Commission that the police found four empties of AK47, one slug of AK-47, two live cartridges of AK-47, one empty 7.62 SLR and two empties of 9mm pistols”. [xiii] ” Most of the report, however, speaks of the rapes, murders, and attacks by the Shiv Sena on Muslims in January of 1993. The Shiv Sena committed awful crimes against Muslims during the Mumbai riots and as HRW notes it is necessary that those members of the Shiv Sena, especially Bal Thackeray, be brought to justice for their role in these attacks. However, almost nothing is said about attacks by Muslims against Hindus. The Srikrishna Report notes that in the last week of December 1992 and first week of January 1993, particularly between January 1 andto January 5, there was a series of stabbing incidents in which the majority of the victims were Hindus. The notorious Radhabai Chawl massacre, in which six Hindus (most of them handicapped) were burned alive, is not even mentioned. This massacre played a significant role in igniting the Hindu backlash. As Varhsa Bhosle, notes in a column on Rediff, an analysis of the Srikrishna Report shows that prior to the Radhabai Chawl massacre the majority of the victims in the early January violence were Hindus. After the Radhabai Chawl massacre, the majority were Muslims. HRW notes that , “ In January 1992, much of the violence was directed by members of the Shiv Sena who stopped cars, identified Muslim passengers, and attacked them.” Muslims, however, were doing very similar things, which HRW chooses to ignore. Mumbai resident Shrikant Talageri, from an analysis he conducted from Times Of India newspapers articles on the violence points out that,“On 7 January, mobs of Muslims in the Muslims areas named above fanned the streets and caught passers-by on the busy roads. Those suspected to be Hindus were made to remove their pants, and if they were found to be uncircumcised, they were stabbed to death. The police were under strict instructions from the state government not to shoot at Muslim mobs. The main area of this activity was in the Muslim heartland in south Mumbai”.[xiv]” The communal breakdown of deaths,according to the Srikrishna Report, was 575 Muslims, 275 Hindus, 45 unknown, and 5 others. While the majority of the victims were Muslims, this can hardly be classified as an anti-Muslim riot, since a significant number of dead were Hindus. Both communities are to blame for what happened. But from reading the HRW report, one would view the Mumbai riots as a one-sided pogrom by the Shiv Sena and the police against peaceful and defenseless Muslims. In April 1996, HRW released another report on the Mumbai riots titled, “Communal Violence and the Denial of Justice.” This report repeats the things discussed in the first report, albeit in much more detail. As in the first report, exclusive blame for the violence is placed on the Hindu community and the Shiv Sena, Muslims are exonerated of all blame, and a biased analysis of encounters between Muslims and the police is presented. What is ironic about this report is that it was written as a response to Chief Minister Manohar Joshi’s decision to terminate the Srikrishna inquiry. The purpose of this report is to encourage the continuation of the inquiry and the implementation of its recommendations. Yet, despite the fact that the Srikrishna Report notes that roughly one-third of those killed in the riots were Hindus, there is not a single mention in the HRW report of any attack against Hindus! In addition, every single one of HRW’s eighteen eyewitness accounts describes attacks on Muslims,and none describe attacks on Hindus. From reading HRW’s report, one would be surprised to find that any Hindus suffered from the violence. HRW even uses testimony from a Muslim man “who participated in a demonstration,” (not exactly the most objective of sources) claiming that Shiv Sena members attacked the demonstrators. Just imagine HRW using testimony from Hindu “demonstrators” or “activists.” HRW Report on Attacks on Christians in India Overview In 1999, HRW authored a report titled, “Politics by Other Means: Attacks on Christians in India.” This report is perhaps HRW’s most biased. It does not just display the typical lack of concern for the rights of Hindus, or blame “Hindu nationalists” for all of India’s ills, but includes bigotry towards the Hindu religion itself, distortions, and false statements that are directly contradicted by news reports and individual testimonies. The report seems more like a work produced by fundamentalist Christian proselytizers than by an independent non-biased organization. Particularly troubling is that John Dayal, a notorious Christian demagogue who throughout the report is referred to as a “human rights activist” is extensively quoted and relied upon for information in the report. Dayal fabricated the story of the rape of nuns at Jhajjar[xv] and said in an online discussion with Rediff that there are no forced conversions in India despite numerous testimonies, police evidence, and above all the Niyogi Commission on Christian missionary activity by the Madhya Pradesh government in 1956. [xvi] Dayal blamed Hindu groups for the church bomb blasts a full month after the confessions by Deendar Anjuman.[xvii] In the beginning of the report, HRW claims that attacks against Christians are part of a “concerted campaign of right-wing Hindu organizations, collectively known as the sangh parivar, to promote and exploit communal tensions to stay in power a movement that is supported at the local level by militant groups who operate with impunity.” While it is true that Hindu extremists have been involved in the attacks on Christians, they are far from being the underlying cause of the religious tension. For example, HRW asserts later in the report that “Most of the attacks against Christians have taken place in the country’s tribal belt.” B.Raman of the South Asia Analysis Group explains that Hindu-Christian violence in India is mostly caused by the social tension created by aggressive missionary activity in the tribal belt. Conversion drives by Christian missionaries, foreign or Indian, are concentrated in the tribal belt. The people are very poor and many of them are animists with no organised religion. In return for material incentives such as cash, scholarships, etc, they are prepared to embrace Christianity even if they don't like the faith or understand the implications of their actions. Even though many of the tribals are animists, their social and cultural traditions are similar to those of the Hindus---like the responsibility of the son to look after the parents, perform their last rites when they die, find a husband for the sister etc. In the tribal areas, the old people are reluctant to convert. So, the missionaries focus on the youth. If in a family only the son is won over by the missionaries and embraces Christianity, he refuses to look after his parents or perform their last rites. They themselves do not want their last rites to be performed by their son because he has become a Christian. Nobody would marry the daughter in the house…The result: The activities of the missionaries have been playing havoc with local cultural and social traditions and creating social tensions and leading to the break-up of many families. Such tensions and anger result in occasional outbreaks of wrath against the missionaries.[xviii] According to HRW, any commission or inquiry that does not say that attacks against Christians were systematically planned attacks and carried out by the Sangh Parivar is suspect. For example, in the 2000 report on human rights developments in India, it is stated: In May, the National Commission for Minorities (NCM), a government agency, issued a report stating that attacks against Christians were either accidental or the unrelated actions of petty criminals. Outraged Christian activists said the report showed that the government condoned attacks on Christians. Earlier reports by the NCM, issued before it was overhauled by the central government in January, had recommended prosecutions for such attacks and accused the government of willful neglect at all levels. Simply because the report said that the attacks were “either accidental or the unrelated actions of petty criminals” does not mean the government condones the attacks. The notion that the NCM would be biased and would condone attacks against Christians is preposterous. The head of the NCM at the time was John Joseph, a Christian himself. His father was one of the leaders of the Pentecost church in India.[xix] Despite charging the NCM of condoning attacks on Christians, in the report on communal violence in Gujarat, HRW cites the NCM’s strong criticism of the Gujarat government’s response to the communal violence. The NCM report noted that the attacks it examined were isolated incidents and could not be blamed on the Sangh Parivar. Joseph said that many Christian leaders who had criticized the report, especially Dayal, “want the attacks to continue so that they can be in the limelight,” and more easily obtain foreign funds. [xx] According to Joseph, Dayal was at the forefront of efforts to undermine Hindu-Christian dialogue. Joseph also notes that many Christian leaders want the NCM to portray all the incidents of attacks against Christians in the country as being the handiwork of the Sangh Parivar. Chapter 5 of the report, titled, “Attacks Across the Country” includes a section on the infamous rapes of nuns in the Jhabua district of Madhya Pradesh. HRW manages to find a way to blame the VHP and the BJP for it, despite the fact that the Madhya Pradesh police found that that many of those involved were Christians. The VHP, however, accused the nuns of trying to convert local Hindus to Christianity, while VHP secretary B. L. Sharma claimed that the incident reflected the "anger of patriotic Hindu youth against the anti-national forces." The BJP did not criticize such inflammatory remarks and instead accused opposition parties of giving the incident communal overtones. Home Minister L. K. Advani made a statement in Parliament that twelve of the twenty-four accused rapists belonged to the Christian community, adding that the statement was based on information obtained from the Madhya Pradesh government. Human rights activist and journalist John Dayal of the United Christian Forum for Human Rights saw the FIR registered in the case and spoke to the DSP in-charge. He told Human Rights Watch that no one identified by the victims was Christian and that no Christians had been accused. The Madhya Pradesh government after investigations arrested the suspects and took them accused into custody.An equal number of Christians and non-Christians were arrested, and no one from the Sangh Parivar was implicated.[xxi] Madhya Pradesh was run by the Congress party at the time, and it is unlikely the police would want to be covering up the Sangh Parivar’s role in the attack. Rather, there would be a vested interest in showing any Sangh Parivar involvement. It is more likely that Dayal is fabricating the story or not telling the complete truth. In the beginning of the report it is stated: The communities affected represent some of the poorest in the country and include Dalits and members of local tribal communities, many of who convert to Christianity to escape abuses under India's caste system. In many cases, Christian institutions and individuals targeted were singled out for their role in promoting health, literacy, and economic independence among Dalit and tribal community members. A vested interest in keeping these communities in a state of economic dependency is a motivating factor in anti-Christian violence and propaganda. Likewise, later in the report, HRW quotes a statement from another local human rights group: In India, if Christian missionaries have succeeded in converting certain sections of people belonging to Hindu society, this is because of the oppressive caste system that treats millions of human beings worse than animals. Sangh Parivar is not interested in eliminating the caste system as they still talk of Sanatani Hindu faith which still considers birth in any caste as the sole determining factor of social status. These statements are characteristic of the views found in the report. It is filled with half- truths, distortions, and missionary propaganda. One would expect that a human rights organization would be religiously neutral and not favor any religion. This unfortunately is not the case with HRW as it basically endorses proselytization throughout the report. Note that the quotes above are strikingly similar to Father Dominic Emmanuel’s statement the that violence in the Dangs was the “handiwork of high caste Hindus who were afraid that the Church’s work among the poor would erode their status”. [xxii]” The Sangh Parivar, however fanatical and intolerant some accuse it to be, is not a Marxist organization that desires the perpetual dependence of any group on the state. It is quite ironic that the Sangh Parivar would be attacking people because they are doing charity work, when it does a tremendous amount of charity work. The myth that Sangh Parivar wants to perpetuate the caste system is spread throughout this report. As noted above, the Sangh Parivar views caste as a barrier to a unified Hindu society, which is the basis of the Hindu nationalist ideal. Most importantly, no mention at all is made throughout the report about the Hindu reasons for opposing conversions. HRW makes it seem as if opposition to conversions is solely due to the fanaticism of the Sangh Parivar. The Hindu view on conversion is essential to understanding the strong opposition to proselytization efforts and Hindu-Christian violence. As Arvind Sharma, Professor of Religion at McGill University notes, “most modem Hindus are opposed to the idea of conversion from one religion to another per se”.[xxiii]” According to Sharma, this opposition is rooted in the neo-Hindu doctrine of the validity of all paths to the divine. If all paths are valid, then conversion from one religion to another does not make much sense. The Hindu view of religious freedom is not based on the freedom to proselytize, but the right to retain one's religion and not be subject to proselytization.[xxiv] Several states in decades past not run by the BJP have passed laws banning conversion by force, fraud, or allurement. This is seen as a way of protecting religious freedom. The proselytizer takes the view that Christianity is the “only true religion” and “all other religions false” and refuses to accept multiple paths to God, which is central to Hindus belief. That is why he seeks to convert and “harvest souls” for the Church. Such intolerance towards people of other faiths and the delegitimization of the Hindu religion is what causes strong Hindu resistance to conversion. It is not just Hindu extremists in the VHP and the Bajrang Dal who are strongly opposed to conversion, but even Mahatma Gandhi himself was. Gandhi once stated, “If I had power and could legislate, I should certainly stop all proselytizing.” The notion of converting to escape the caste system is a ploy by Christian proselytizers to cast their religious intolerance in secular and even humanitarian terms. Firstly, while it may be true that many Dalits convert to escape the caste system, Dalit Christians still suffer from extensive caste discrimination. For example, many parishes have separate chapels and graveyards for Dalit and non-Dalit Christians and prohibit Dalit Christians from becoming altar boys.[xxv] Secondly, viewing caste oppression as the main reason for conversion ignores the fact that many conversions are carried about by force, fraud, and allurement as documented in the Niyogi Report and numerous others testimonies. The two quotes above illustrates one of the Hindu critiques of conversions pertaining to how economic benefits provided by missionaries, entice poor Hindus to convert. Thirdly, talking about “uplifting Dalits,” obscures the real intent of proselytizers, which is harvesting the souls of the non-believers. If the main goal of proselytizers is to aid the underprivileged, why not help all those who are poor regardless of their religion and forget about conversions? Aggressive proselytization efforts are not even universally endorsed by all Christians. For example, the Archbishop of Hyderabad stated that they were “totally wrong” and that “real conversion is conversion to God…every religion is unique, offering something beautiful for us to absorb”.[xxvi] ” Moreover, many liberal and moderate Christians reject the notion that Christianity is the only path to God and that all other religions are false. As Rebecca Moore, assistant professor in religious studies at San Diego State University, notes, "Certainly within evangelical Christianity and fundamentalist Christianity there is a belief that there is only one way to define that...But within mainline Protestant churches and Catholicism, I think there is a little bit more openness”.[xxvii] ” Lliberal Christians generally subscribe to the belief that evangelism means sharing how your faith is right for you personally, but not insisting that Christianity is the only answer.[xxviii] For example, the Rev. Wayne Sanders, rector of Good Samaritan Episcopal Church in San Diego rejects the view that without Christianity one is doomed to hell. He sees “Jesus as being accepting of all faiths because he was trying to lead people to his father. [xxix] " Likewise, Rosemary Johnston, a Catholic who runs the Interfaith Shelter Network in San Diego, a seasonal program in which various congregations take turns housing the homeless, thinks evangelism ought to concentrate on unchurched Christians and people who have no religious tradition.[xxx] She rejects the belief that other faiths cannot lead to heaven. She argues, "How can this God who created us all in his image and likeness exclude any person from his heavenly kingdom”. [xxxi] " Yet, from the perspective of HRW, even the mere criticism of conversion is off limits. Although Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee has publicly dissociated himself from the VHP and given assurances of safety to all Christians, his position has been ambiguous: while officially condemning the killing of Australian missionary Graham Staines in January 1999, for example, the prime minister called for a "national debate on conversions." Human rights groups criticized the move as legitimizing the motives behind the Staines attack. Vajpayee condemned the attack. But merely because he wants a dialogue on conversions he is viewed as being “ambiguous” and seen as “legitimizing motives behind the Staines attack.” Contrary, to HRW what insinuates, one can oppose both the horrific murder of Graham Staines and be critical of conversions and the bigotry of proselytizers. Likewise, HRW asserts that speaking against conversion makes the government guilty of “tacitly supporting” the burning of churches and assaults on Christians. The burning of churches and assaults on Christians, including priests and nuns, are not only tolerated but are tacitly supported by the government through anti-conversion rhetoric and a systematic failure to prosecute individuals and leaders responsible for fomenting the violence. The fact that HRW does not believe that conversion and proselytization should be criticized is a clear indication of its hostility toward the Hindu religion. But if there were ever any doubts about the bias, partisanship, and distortions contained in HRW reports on India, the following statement in the beginning of the report should put them to rest. Christians are not the only minority to be targeted by the Sangh Parivar. Violence against Sikhs in northern India in 1984… also stemmed from the activities and hate propaganda of these groups The 1984 riots? Sangh Parivar propaganda? It is common knowledge, that it was Congress Party goons, who were involved in orchestrating the attacks against the Sikhs in 1984. Noted Sikh journalist Khushwant Singh, an opponent of the BJP, notes that Atal Bihari Vajpayee risked his life to save the lives of Sikhs in the 1984 riots. Likewise, Tarloachan Singh, the head of the NCM praised the RSS for protecting the Sikhs during the 1984 riots.[xxxii] Hindu-Christian Violence in Gujarat Chapter 4 of the report describes the 1998-1999 Hindu-Christian violence in Gujarat with particular focus on the Dangs region. HRW states that 1998 began “with an unprecedented hate campaign by Hindutva groups and culminated with ten days of nonstop violence against Christian tribals and the destruction of churches and Christian institutions in the southeastern districts at the year's end.” HRW makes copious mentions of the destruction of churches, Christian run schools, and Bibles. Also, the report mentions the anti-Christian propaganda spread by the Sangh Parivar, particularly the Hindu Jagran Manch and the VHP. But Ghelubhai Nayak, a Gandhian social worker in the Dangs notes that Christian proselytizers have played a large role in promoting communal conflict in the Dangs, which is completely ignored by the HRW report. In testimony before the NCM, Nayak notes that “Christian missionaries in the area” are converting tribals with means that are “ clearly questionable and even illegal”.[xxxiii] ” He asserts, “They have been using a curious mix of blind faith and allurements to entice the innocent tribals into the Christian fold.” For example, a missionary infiltrated Sabarmati Ashram carrying a book, Gandhiji's Favourite Bhajans, which was found to contain only Christian Psalms, and not a single Gandhian reference.[xxxiv] In fact, when Nayak and his late brother rebuffed conversion overtures, the missionaries tried to forcibly evict them from their office in the Missionpada area of Ahwa.[xxxv] Nayak notes that converted tribals under the influence of preachers desecrated Hindu idols at least fifteen times in the three years preceding the Dangs violence. Converted tribals have also abused Hindu idols as “devils” and urinated on them. According to Nayak, “The ire against Christians in the area has been rising for past few years and has reached a boil now because of the provocative activities of the Christians, under the influence of their preachers”.[xxxvi]” Many instances have been recorded when those who refused to convert to Christianity were physically assaulted by converted tribals. HRW mentions the burning of Bibles at the I.P. Mission School in the Rajkot district. But what is not mentioned is that forced conversions were going on. The school distributed among its students copies of Navo Karaar, the New Testament in Gujarati. On the last page was an oath ("I accept Jesus Christ as my saviour," etc) to be signed by each student.[xxxvii] Not only does HRW neglect to mention that conversions by force, fraud, and allurement took place, but also dismisses the idea that such things occurred as anti-Christian propaganda. None of the fact-finding missions found any evidence to support the accusation that Christians were converting tribals by force or trickery, accusations that were included in anti-Christian propaganda and distributed to the community at large. These are indeed fact-finding missions of a very strange sort! In the report, HRW describes the start of the violence that took place in the Dangs in December of 1998. The Hindu Jagran Manch (HJM), an offshoot of the Sangh Parivar consisting of people who belong to the Bajrang Dal, VHP and RSS, obtained permission to hold a rally on December 25 in Ahwa town in the Dangs district. Over 4,000 people participated in the rally, shouting anti-Christian slogans while the police stood by and watched. After the rally, the attacks began on Christian places of worship, schools run by missionaries, and shops owned by Christians and Muslims. Rediff, however, tells a very different story demonstrating that Christians, not Hindus instigated the attacks. When a little-known organisation called the Hindu Jagran Manch decided to stage a rally at Ahwa, headquarters of the Dangs district in south Gujarat, on December 25 to protest against the mass conversion of Hindus to Christianity, nobody foresaw much trouble. But according to the local police, at noon, some 100 tribal Christians pelted stones at the rally. Neo-Christians from surrounding villages joined in and started abusing the rallyists and throwing stones at them. Soon, the place became a battlefield with some 2,000 Christians ranged against 3,000 Hindus and stones flying all over. Finally, the police used their batons and tear-gas to disperse the warring groups. But by then several people were injured. And a spark had been lit. Next, a group of tribal Christians turned their attention to a Hindu house, trying to break down the doors and windows. When they failed, they smashed a jeep parked outside. They then allegedly ransacked the shop of Pradeep Sambhaji Patil, district president of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. “The tribals were drunk and shouting anti-Hindu slogans," alleges Sanjay D Vyavahare, whose house was attacked. "They were screaming, 'Hindu baahar niklo, Hinduonko maar do [Hindus come out. Kill the Hindus] and abusing our gods. We were lucky the door didn't open, otherwise they would have killed us." Says Poonam Vyavahare, his sister-in-law, "We support neither the BJP nor the VHP, but still they attacked us. We have never experienced these things here. Our house was the only one they attacked." The news spread like fire and soon Hindus started congregating and attacking Christian institutions.[xxxviii] HRW Report on Communal Violence in Gujarat Overview In late April of 2002, HRW produced a report on communal violence in Gujarat titled, “We Have No Orders to Save You: State Participation and Complicity in Communal Violence in Gujarat.” The basic thrust of the report is, as its author Smita Narula states, “What happened in Gujarat was not a spontaneous uprising, it was a carefully orchestrated attack against Muslims. The attacks were planned in advance and organized with extensive participation of the police and state government officials.” The report also claims that the attacks were “state sponsored” and were planned “well in advance of the Godhra incident.” Virtually all blame for the Gujarat violence is placed on the Sangh Parivar and the BJP government. Below is an analysis of the report and the communal violence in Gujarat. Spontaneous Uprising or Planned Attacks? The Gujarat government claimed that the attacks against Muslims were a spontaneous uprising of Hindu rage at the Godhra attack. HRW, by contrast, claims that the attacks were not a spontaneous uprising but were planned and “carefully orchestrated.” Both statements have some truth in them. It is certainly true that many attacks were well coordinated and carefully organized by the VHP and the Bajrang Dal. But this is only part of the story. Much of the violence that occurred was the result of a spontaneous uprising at the outrage of Godhra. For example, numerous news reports indicate that on February 28, the day after the Godhra carnage, there were Hindu mobs of 10,000 to 20,000 at different places on the same day at the same time. It is estimated that approximately two million people came onto the streets during the post-Godhra violence.[xxxix] It is inconceivable that these mobs consisted entirely of Sangh Parivar members or that the attacks were all planned by VHP or Bajrang Dal leaders. Indeed as Prem Shankar Jha notes in Outlook, “None could anticipate the mob size or fury as none foresaw what TV would do to the communal powder keg in Gujarat. The images on TV of the Godhra carnage were a powerful force in igniting communal passion amongst the Hindus.[xl] ” There was extensive participation of the educated middle class because many had seen the Godhra carnage on TV.[xli] The National Human Rights Commission and the Minorities Commission both of which are cited in HRW’ reports “accepted the Gujarat government's contention that it did foresee trouble and took precautionary steps to check it, but was caught by surprise and overwhelmed by the mob fury erupting on February 28”.[xlii]” In addition, Dalits took part in the violence on a large scale. As Lavakare notes: In the post-Godhra violence in Gujarat, 8,000 armed tribals descended on Sanjeli town in the tribal heartland of Dahod district with bows, stones and gunshots, killing 15 fleeing Muslims and destroying 450 Muslim houses. The killers, be it noted, were tribals and not the urban elite moved by the Hindutva ideology; nor were they city goons armed with the Bajrang Dal trishul.[xliii] In another post-Godhra episode, 7,000 armed Adivasis marched into Bodeli town in Chotte-Udepur tribal area of Vadodara district and 15,000 Hindus, mostly armed Thakurs of the Other Backward Classes, burnt 250 Muslim houses, causing large-scale Muslim migration.[xliv] At the time Lavakare’s article was published, 140 deaths had been recorded in tribal areas.[xlv] Furthermore, incidents of violence continued for weeks after the Godhra carnage, when there were no rampaging Hindu mobs of thousands of people and the army was deployed, indicating that much of the violence was due to strong communal hatred between the two communities. If all the violence that occurred was planned, there should have been no more violence at all after the first few days. Thus, while Modi’s assertions that everything that happened in Gujarat was entirely a “spontaneous uprising” are disingenuous considering the sophisticated nature and precision of the some of the attacks, it is also equally problematic to say that everything that happened was planned. Elements of both planning by Hindu extremists and a spontaneous uprising of the populace at the outrage of Godhra were present in the Gujarat violence. The Role of the Police HRW points to numerous instances of police participation and inaction during the communal violence. The report quotes many Muslims saying that the police was with the rioters. HRW states, “Eyewitness accounts cited throughout this report, as well as the history of police and political recruitment demonstrate the state's partisan role.” The section on police firings starts off with a quote in italics, stating, “They only shot at one side. Why ? Why didn’t they shoot to stop the attackers?” HRW also notes, “According to a report in The Week, a weekly Indian news magazine, in the month following the Godhra massacre, 120 people had been killed in police shootings throughout the state, many of them Muslim.” It is interesting to see that HRW does not give the communal breakdown of those killed in police firings, which was readily available at the time at the time of the report’s publication. For example, the head of the NCM at the time of the riots, John Joseph, noted in April 2002, “As on April 6, 126 persons were killed in police firing, of which 77 were Hindus”.[xlvi][xxxvii] ” Thus, HRW’s statement, “ 120 people had been killed in police shootings… many of them Muslims” is a deliberate attempt to mislead to the reader of the report. The manner in which HRW presents the information on police firings hides the fact that the majority of those killed in police firings were Hindus, while calling attention to the fact that “many Muslims” were killed. It is not surprising to see HRW resort to such tactics. If HRW were to acknowledge that the majority of those killed in police firings were Hindus, this would seriously undermine HRW’s distorted and exaggerated account of the role of the police and lead the reader of the report to question its accuracy. Indeed, after reading HRW’s account of police actions, one would be shocked to find that any Hindus were killed in police firings, let alone a majority. In addition to the police firings, the Gujarat police arrested 3,900 persons, two-thirds Hindus, in the first 48 hours of the violence.[xlvii][xxxviii] By April 5, 9,500 persons had been arrested of whom two-thirds were Hindus.[xlviii][xxxix] In one instance, while tribals were attacking Muslims, “Police intervention meant another 2,500 were spared a savage death”.[xlix] ” Statistics on police firings and arrests and situations where the police saved thousands of lives are extremely important in assessing the role of the police in the attacks. None of this, however, is mentioned in the HRW report. Such statistics demonstrate that “we have no orders to save you” could not have been the response of the police in every instance since many Muslims were saved, thousands of Hindus were arrested, and many Hindus were killed in police firings. Nor is it true that the police officers consistently “only shot at one side.” Is this to say that the police did everything it could to stop the violence, as the Gujarat government claims it did? No. There were many cases where the police was partisan, participated in the attacks, or stood by and let Muslims be butchered. In addition, there were many instances in which politicians and cabinet ministers discouraged efforts to control the violence. However, a more nuanced view of the role of the police than the one presented by HRW is needed. In sharp contrast to the HRW report, Prem Shankar Jha, the National Human Rights Commission, and the NCM take the view that to an extent the Gujarat government took certain precautionary measures, but was overwhelmed by the mob fury that erupted on February 28. Jha notes that despite the size of the mobs, “The Gujarat police did try to restore law and order”.[l][xl]” In Jha’s view, the problem was not so much how the administration behaved, but how the political leaders behaved. The BJP leadership tried to force the release of VHP and Bajrang Dal leaders who were arrested for their involvement in the violence and transferred police officers who did not comply. In addition, state inaction also harmed Hindus. In the chapter on “Retaliatory Attacks on Hindus, ” one Hindu victim is quoted as saying, “We called the police thousands of times but they told us, "Sir is out". In another case, when asked about police response during the attacks, a victim told: After 5:30 p.m., the brigadier came in. The Rapid Action Force and the military said, "We got no message to come here. We have been close by for seven hours but got no message that there was any problem here." The police said, "We are on our way." They cut off our phones from the outside. When the police arrived they threw tear gas inside here. HRW tries to use police partisanship to show state sponsorship of the attacks, but not one instance is cited in which the police leadership is giving orders to officers to participate in attacks on Muslims. Much has to do with events on the local level and the attitudes of individual low-level police officers. It is likely that the Godhra massacre influenced the communal mood at the moment. Much of the partisanship, inaction, and participation of the police in the riots probably were related to the anti-Muslim bias of individual police officers and local officials rather than a state sponsored campaign to exterminate Muslims. In the overall analysis, there was considerable police inaction and some participation in the violence. If the Chief Minister was truly concerned about preventing communal carnage, greater steps could have been taken. But considering the fact that the police saved a lot of lives, many Hindus were killed in the police firings, and thousands were arrested, HRW’s descriptions of the role of the police aren’t just inaccurate, but inflammatory. From reading the report, one gets the impression that the police were orchestrating state-sponsored genocide against Muslims and not doing anything at all to help control the violence. State Sponsored Attacks? As noted above, HRW claims the attacks against Muslims were “state-sponsored.” If the attacks were state sponsored, then by the very definition of “state-sponsored”, this would mean that the attacks on Muslims were orchestrated and planned by the state hierarchy and carried out by the entire state machinery. The very fact that many Hindus were killed in police firings, 2,500 Muslims were saved at one point, and 3,900 arrests were made in the first 48 hours means the attacks cannot be defined as state sponsored. While police officers were implicated in attacks, no proof has been provided that orders were given by the state government or police hierarchy to carry out attacks on Muslims. Indeed, as HRW notes, Modi even gave “shoot to kill” orders on March 1. In understanding the violence in Gujarat, one must examine what happened on the local level. K.P.S. Gill, the former director of the Punjab police who was sent by the Centre to advise the Gujarat government noted: “What happened in Gulmarg society and Naroda Patia is inexcusable because it was a failure at the local level.[li]” Likewise, in the communally sensitive town of Dhokla, a local BJP leader helped bring community leaders together in order to prevent riots from starting.[lii][xlii] If the attacks were state sponsored and the entire state machinery was involved, it is almost certain that the death toll would be higher. The official death toll of the riots is roughly 900 and the unofficial is 2000. The great majority, but not all of these deaths were Muslim. Large-scale riots are not new to Gujarat. Sanjeev Srivastava, a reporter for the BBC, puts the toll for the 1969 Gujarat riots at 2,500, [liii][xliii] while Ashutosh Varshney of the University of Michigan puts the toll at 630.[liv] Many more Muslims would have been killed if the entire state machinery were involved in the 2002 riots. Also, if the attacks were state sponsored, it is unlikely that Hindus would have suffered as much as they did. About 10,000-40,000 Hindus were in refugee camps after the violence and hundreds were killed. It would have been almost impossible for Muslims to harm Hindus to the extent they did, if the entire state machinery was involved in orchestrating attacks against them. However, while the attacks could not be called “state-sponsored” there was clearly some state complicity. Local officials, the police, and perhaps even some state officials were involved in the attacks against Muslims. In addition, it is clear that the Modi government deliberately undermined efforts to control the violence. This is a disgrace since it is the duty of the state and the police to protect the rights and lives of its citizens. Planned Before Godhra? As noted above, HRW asserts that the attacks against Muslims were planned before Godhra. It is of utmost necessity to have substantial evidence before one makes such a serious accusation. Yet, not one iota of evidence is produced in the report to back up this assertion. There are in fact fundamental flaws with this view. Most of the violent, large-scale mob attacks started occurring on February 28, the day after the Godhra carnage. As the HRW report notes, very little violence occurred on February 27. If the attacks were planned in advance, it is more likely the anti-Muslim retaliation would have commenced on February 27, immediately after the Godhra carnage, than on February 28. It seems that the attacks that were planned by the VHP and Bajrang Dal were probably planned on February 27 after the Godhra carnage or on the morning of February 28. It is also inconceivable, how mob violence involving hundreds of thousands of people could have been planned before the Godhra massacre without anyone knowing. Also, as noted above, much of the violence that occurred was the result of a spontaneous response to the Godhra massacre. Nor is there a political reason for planning such attacks. It is true that BJP and the Sangh Parivar have been strengthened in Gujarat as a result of the communal violence. They were successful in playing on the fears of Hindus and projecting themselves as the defenders of Hindus. However, it is difficult to see how committing atrocities against Muslims for no apparent reason or without a major provocation such as Godhra could have possibly benefited the BJP and the Sangh Parivar. But it is not surprising that HRW alleges that the attacks against Muslims were planned before Godhra. By alleging that the attacks were planned before Godhra, HRW seeks to indicate that the Godhra killings, one of the worst massacres of Hindus since partition, had little to do with the carnage that followed. This is consistent with HRW’s pattern of reporting on communal violence in India. Godhra With regards to the Godhra attack, HRW asserts: There are significantly divergent accounts about the events leading to the dispute that resulted in the Godhra killings. Human Rights Watch was not able to independently verify the accuracy of these varying accounts, but it was widely reported that a scuffle began between Muslim vendors and Hindu activists shortly after the train arrived at the station. The activists, who had been chanting Hindu nationalist slogans, were said to have refused to pay a vendor until he said "Jai Shri Ram" or "Praise Lord Ram”.” As the train then tried to pull out of the station, the emergency brake was pulled and a Muslim mob attacked the train and set it on fire. Initially Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi claimed that the killings were an "organized terrorist attack." Federal government sources speculated that they were "pre-meditated”," or the work of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI). However, senior police officials in Gujarat have now concluded that the killings were "not preplanned" but rather the result of "a sudden, provocative incident." In addition, a report from the Railway Protection Force (RPF) has concluded that the killings resulted from a spontaneous altercation between VHP activists and merchants on the railway that escalated out of control, rather than a planned conspiracy. If there are “divergent accounts” and HRW was not able to “ independently verify the accuracy of these varying accounts” why is only the version of the altercation between the VHP activists and Muslim vendors mentioned? While it may have been “widely reported” that the attack resulted from a scuffle between the VHP and Muslim vendors, a report by Justice D.S. Tewatia, a man whose findings are cited in an earlier HRW report, finds that the Godhra killings were pre-planned and sponsored by Pakistan.[lv] While some “senior police officials” concluded that the attack was not pre-planned, Additional Director General (law and order) of Gujarat police, J. Mahapatra stated that they were a pre-planned conspiracy. In addition, while much is said about BJP members who were involved in anti-Muslim violence, HRW does not mention that local Congress Muslim leaders were arrested for their role in the Godhra massacre. Reporting of Attacks on Muslims Versus Reporting of Attacks on Hindus HRW even admits that 10,000 of the 98,000 in refugee camps were Hindus, while a British report that was extremely critical of the Gujarat government, claims that 100,000 Muslims and 40,000 Hindus were made homeless by the riots. Justice G.T. Nanavati, who is heading the commission investigating the Gujarat riots, rejected the notion that the riots were one-sided. "On the evidence that we have recorded so far, it would not be fair to say that only Muslims were targeted. Initially though Hindus may have been the perpetrators of violence because they were angry, later members of both communities were engaged in the violence, he stated”. [lvi]" Balbir Punj, writing in
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 12 2004, 09:08 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/416210.cms Bankers say they can't risk their lives, money in Juhapura TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SUNDAY, JANUARY 11, 2004 03:42:46 AM ] AHMEDABAD: The post-Godhra communal riots, which have already effected a change in the conduct of business and social life, are now impacting the functioning of government institutions. After a couple of instances last year in Sabarkantha district, which was worst affected by the riots, now banks are not willing to open branches and give loans in Juhapura — supposedly the largest Muslim ghetto in the country — due to security concerns and chances of recoveries being low. "When largescale power theft takes place in the area, even when the corporation is not able to collect taxes or destroy unauthorised construction in Juhapura, how can you expect banks to make recoveries in case of defaults," said a Congress leader and director of a co-operative bank. "With the number of underworld dons and goons residing in that area, even if an ATM is set up there, its cash would be looted. When even Muslim-owned cooperative banks have not ventured into Juhapura, how can other banks be expected to open branches there" he added. Another banker said that Juhapura has come up through encroachments, and many buildings are unauthorised. So, how can a bank conduct business there and give loans against unauthorised buildings as collateral security. Juhapura Nagrik Samitee (JNS), an NGO, has made an appeal that one bank should open a full-fledged branch along with safe deposit vault facility in Juhapura as it has a population of 2.5 lakh. "But who will guarantee the safety of branch staff and the safe deposit vaults when even corporation officials and police are afraid to enter the area," said a banker. There are no bank branches in Juhapura right from the beginning, according to Dena Bank's general manager Purushottam Kumar. Dena Bank is the convenor of the State Level Bankers' Committee for Gujarat . Bank branches at Vasna, Vejalpur and Sarkhej cater to the Juhapura population. As Juhapura is a residential area, it is very difficult for co-operative bank branches to give advances there, according to Parthivkumar Adhyaru, president of the Ahmedabad City and District Co-operative Banks' Association. "Unlike the larger banks, a co-operative bank branch generally collects deposits from the surrounding area and gives most advances in the same area. With very few commercial establishments at Juhapura, it is not viable for a co-operative bank to have a branch there. Some of the existing branches in Vasna itself are just breaking-even due to low advances potential," he said. Similar instances were seen in Sabarkantha district last year when the inauguration of the new Regional Transport Office (RTO) in Himmatnagar was reportedly put off, as it was located in a minoritydominated area. However, when the RTO was planned, the demographic pattern of the area was different. This was followed by another development where the Association of Radio and Television Engineering Employees (ARTEE) demanded the shifting of the lowpower TV relay centre in Modasa town of this district on account of problems faced during the riots.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 13 2004, 11:04 AM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_532021,000600030005.htm Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee on Tuesday appealed to people in Ahmedabad to bring an end to communal riots and bloodshed, and called for protecting the minorities. Inaugurating the Vishwa Gujarati Parivar Mahotsav here, Vajpayee said, "these (communal) riots should be stopped. We should forget and forgive. "Minorities should be protected and all communities should move ahead hand-in-hand", he said. The Prime Minister added that a new era without any riots or bloodshed must begin in this city and people here have the "potential to perform this miracle".
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 13 2004, 08:07 PM
How about protecting the Majority in areas like Juhupura?
Posted by: Mudy Jan 13 2004, 08:47 PM
GS, That will be 9th wonder.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 13 2004, 09:01 PM
Tackling Juhupura is the first step in repealing article 370 The main problem is that if Modi takes firm action, the psec press will be all over him We can use Juhupura to remove psecism Any hindu who visits Juhupura will come out a bajrang dal activist Going by the normative ratio of 500:1 An armed force of 4000 police must be set up all over Juhupura divided into 40 companies of 100 armed police each Then ruthless law enforcement against power thieves ,encroachers, with shoot to kill on rioters Once the top 1% of criminals are encountered and eliminated the problem becomes solvable Once hindu society handles the problem of secularising Juhupura, then we can consider repealing article 370 Kashmir valley is a large version of Juhupura
Posted by: Kaushal Jan 13 2004, 09:11 PM
It is my contention that Juhupura is not unique in india and in fact there literally are dozens of Juhupuras (outside Kashmir) spread throughout the length and breadth of india. They have been allowed to thrive courtesy of the spineless and thoughtless votebank politicians masquerading under the umbrella of secularism.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 14 2004, 08:40 PM
Yes Kaushal, there are 1000s of Juhupuras all over India, where Darul-Islam and not Indian secularism rules What muslims first do is to identify a target area Next they overpay 10X for buying houses, once they reach 20%, bad things start to happen such as stabbing of hindus and rape of hindu women Then hindus start leaving the area and the last 50% of hindus sell their houses at 10% of normal sale price The typical modus operandi is for 10 muslims to stab a lone hindu The entire muslim community in the locality is involved from the businessmen who finances the house purchases to the mullahs who incite the mob to the 'secular' muslim who complains when muslims get arrested Next they start to stab cops and the hindu secular politicians look the other way for a vote bank. Once cops realise that the state wont crack down, they avoid the neighborhood and then the muslims attack hindu civilians and ethnic cleanse them This is a worldwide phenomenon, even in UK As late as 1985, Juhupura was 70% hindu and was a nice area Then the congress struck a deal with Latif a muslim gangster and associate of Dawood Cops were attacked with AK-47 and 20 cops were stripped in public by Latif's men Hindus got ethnic cleansed Then the hindu gujuratis got smart They started voting for BJP with 2/3 majority since 1991 Now gujurati hindus dont let any muslim buy an apartment in their area since they had the experience of Juhupura, Kalupur and other such places The post Godhra reaction was fueled by the Juhupura experience Muslims deliberately target strategic areas , near train stations, near temples ( open a cow butcher shop and harass kafirs ) etc. Dwaraka is now 80% muslim Juhupura is not a law and order problem or a social problem It is a symptom of a national security problem These Juhupuras need to be cleaned up before repeal of article 370 has any meaning Anyone working for hindu consolidation must organise tours of the nearest Juhupura - Pakistani flags, Illegal cow slaughter, and other such symptoms of Darul-Islam Anyone looking at Juhupura on a stand alone basis will call it ghettoising muslims but this ghettoisation happened due to muslims ethnic cleansing hindus
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 15 2004, 07:45 PM
More on Juhupura ----- The reason that muslims targeted Juhupura was that it was strategically significant A major highway out of Ahmedabad ran through Juhupura Once their hold was secure in Juhupura, muslim gangs started robbing traffic We have to give full marks to the ingenuity of the hindu gujuratis They quickly built bypass roads around Juhupura
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 16 2004, 06:28 PM
Start of the Juhupura mess ------ In 1985, Latif with congress backing started a major riot The army was sent in Gen. Afsir Karim was in charge He blamed Latif for the mess Super cop Ribiero arrested Latif and the riots stopped for a few months Gen Afsir Karim noted that many muslim leaders asked him to intervene on the side of the muslim rioters Omar Khalidi has lamented that Gen Afsir Karim blamed Latif for the riots India Today wrote in 1999, that the rise of the BJP in Gujurat can be directly traced to hindu reaction against Latif Unfortunately hindus in other states are not so wise as Gujurati hindus
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 17 2004, 08:21 AM
http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=325246 ndtv ----- Saturday, January 17, 2004 (Himmatnagar): More than a 1,000 people crowd the Sabarkanta district Road Transport Office in Himmatnagar in Gujarat every day. The driving tests are conducted on the highway facing it because there is just no space in the residential locality, where the office is located. But two kms from here, a new RTO building, constructed at a cost of Rs 1 crore on 10 acres of land, remains unoccupied. Vested interests? It was completed in July last year and in October the office even moved here on the orders of the district collector. Jan 14, 2004: Gujarat riots: Forgive and forget, says PM Jan 7, 2004: Post-Godhra riots: CBI registers first case Dec 26, 2003: Court dismisses appeal in Best Bakery case Dec 20, 2003: Gujarat lawyers slam Salve on riot cases More But the shift was only for a day as the office was moved back to its rented premises by the Transport Commissioner of Gujarat. No reason was given. Now a public interest litigation filed in this matter says vested business interests are trying to influence the government by raising fears of insecurity since the new site is located in a Muslim dominated area. "The truth is that some transport agents have bought office space outside the old RTO. If the office moves from there, then the value of their property is bound to fall. They don't want this to happen and so are resisting the shift by giving it a communal turn. Even during the riots, it was peaceful here. No incident was reported," says Akbarbhai Kharodia, transporter. Security concerns? The agents or advisors however insisted that it was the public, which was opposing this move. "That area is full of anti-social elements. No person from a decent family will ever want to go to that office. How can any woman wait there for two hours? It is unsafe because of the people who live there. That is the issue here," says an agent. Agents also say that because the new RTO has been built between two Muslim dominated villages, they feel insecure. But the students and teachers of two schools and a college in the area have never felt threatened by this. Biased attitude? The Transport Commissioner refused to comment on the controversy since the matter is in court. But this is not an isolated instance. The Association of Radio and Television Engineering Employees have been openly demanding that a TV relay centre in the town of Modasa and Sabarkanta district be shifted from its present location in a Muslim neighbourhood to another place. In Gujarat's scarred landscape government institutions, which should be taking the lead in rebuilding trust between the two communities, cannot be seen as taking sides.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 31 2004, 04:48 PM
G.P.K.Pillai THE GODHRA CARNAGE SYNOPSIS: 1.The burning of the Sabarmati Express was pre-planned with connivance of ISI and SIMI, the conspiracy conceived and planned at Deoband School of Islamic studies in U.P. with their counterparts in Godhra. The intention was to burn the whole train at Godhra where the scheduled arrival was 2.55 AM so that the inferno could be complete and unattended for a long time giving the perpetrators time to escape in the darkness after inflicting maximum possible carnage. 2. Monitoring of the movement of the train of the coaches occupied by Hindu devotees were regularly fed to Godhra where most of the porters, staff and stall-holders were Muslims and part of the conspiracy. As planned, Muslim passengers were made to alight at previous stoppages, last at Dahod by the conspirators. That is how the Railway reports of fewer reserved passengers in S-6 than in the list, who were burnt to death. 3. The train started from the platform but was immediately brought to stoppage by “chain-pulling” as many passengers still sipping tea, didn’t re-enter the train. 4. According to train/station staff, the train restarted as the mechanism was set right in a few minutes and moved towards the outer signal. The train was stopped a second time at the outer point joining the main line by one points-man named Syed, and some miscreants disabled the vacuum system by cutting off the flexible pipes. 5. No sooner the train stopped, a crowd of over 2000 Muslims who had collected earlier with all sorts of weapons started attacking the passengers, who closed the windows when stones were thrown at them. Crowbars were used to wrench out the iron bars of the windows and the windows were broken open. 6. Some passengers who tried to escape through such windows were beheaded by swords. Few others escaped with injuries. 7. A few Muslims entered the S-5 coach with cans of inflammable liquid- petrol, and splashed the petrol into the coach S-6 standing at the vestibule and the toilet area. The fuel was then ignited by them. (This corroborates findings of the forensic Dept. that fuel was lighted and burnt from inside the train and not thrown through windows) 8. All the time the crowd was shouting “ Kill the infidels” in orchestrated way and was led by President of Municipality and Councillors, all Muslims belonging to Congress Party.. 9. One of the fire-fighters was earlier disabled by removal of bolts by the Municipal Corporator Haji Balal during his long presence at the Firestation as in-charge, the previous day and the second one too, made defective was repaired and rushed to the Railway Station on getting the call. This vehicle was stopped 200 yards away from the Station by a crowd of Muslims led by this Corporator, who pulled the driver down and got the windscreen smashed. Sensing threat to his life, the driver managed to restart the engine and ploughed through the crowd running helter skelter and reached the S-6 coach to put off the fire. 10. Over 58 people in S-6 were burnt to death. It is reported that when CPI team visited the coach, two plastic jerry cans were planted in the coach to prove that the Kar-sevaks were carrying petrol within the coach!! Little did they realise the folly that plastic jerry cans would not have survived the inferno that bent even steel fittings in the coach!! 11. The Collector attempted to play down the incident as outcome of petty quarrel at the platform when Ram-sevaks did not pay for the tea that resulted in the carnage. Such feeble attempts to point the finger at Hindu devotees were consistently made by the Railway Protection Force, English media and so called Voluntary agencies vying with one another to disprove the horrendous act by the Muslims and none of them were able to explain the fact how over 2000 Muslims collected with all sorts of arms and petrol to attack the train within 5 minutes of the actual departure of the train. 12. Some allegations were made against the devotees pulling a Muslim girl into the compartment, which in fact was a mild skirmish when the tea-vendor’s daughter had joined the fracas regarding payment for the tea as many were rushing to moving train. FACTS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES- GODHRA AND AFTER- A Field Study By Justice D. S. Tewatia, Dr. J. C. Batra, Dr. Krishan Singh Arya, Shri Jawahar Lal Kaul, Prof. B. K. Kuthiala COUNCIL FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND HUMAN RIGHTSA-208, Surajmal Vihar, Delhi 110 092. (Phone 2374816, fax 2377653, Email http://lw11fd.law11.hotmail.msn.com COUNCIL FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS AND HUMAN RIGHTS -GOVERNING BODY FOR THE TERM 2001-03:
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Feb 5 2004, 08:00 PM
Muslims parade naked Hindu woman in Mathura Ah the fruits of secular Mulayam rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- in.news.yahoo.com/040130/139/2b7zw.html Middle-aged woman paraded naked in Mathura Mathura, Jan 30 (ANI): In a shocking incident of rowdy jungle rule, a 40-year-old woman was allegedly paraded naked by some men in a village here after her kin eloped with a girl. Kamlesh was beaten with sticks and forcibly dragged out of her house on the outskirts of Mathura by the relatives of the girl last week. Shocked and scared, Kamlesh did not report the incident till Thursday. "My brother-in-law's son ran with a Muslim girl. I had nothing to do with it. Why did the girl's family attack me? There was no fault of mine," Kamlesh said. Officials, however, said the heinous attack was an act of revenge as the girl, who has since returned home, has alleged that she was ill treated and molested by Ravi. A local police officer said they were investigating and had arrested four of the five men accused of molesting Kamlesh. "Some Muslim boys entered Ravi's house and beat his aunt Kamlesh who was alone at home. They dragged her out and during this, her clothes were torn. Kamlesh did not tell anybody about this incident. The incident came to our knowledge only now when she filed an FIR. We have started with the proceedings and four out of the five accused have been arrested," he said. Kamleshs' nephew, Ravi is also under arrest. Police are on guard as the incident has communal undertones with the involvement of Muslim girl and Hindu boy's families. Though the area police have registered a case, Hindus in the area are accusing them of downplaying the incident. Lawlessness prevails in large parts northern and eastern India. When a group of hoodlums threw Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee's teenaged kin out of a speeding train to his death at Kosi Kalan near Mathura earlier this week, it only underlined the malaise. Incidents of rape, molestation and crime against women are not uncommon in rural India where rivalries amongst communities of different castes and religions continue to trigger widespread discrimination.
Posted by: Viren Apr 30 2004, 11:37 AM
http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=gujaratviolence&slug=British+national+sues+Narendra+Modi&id=53193&callid=1&category=National&headline=British~national~sues~Narendra~Modi and people are complaining about minority rights in Gujarat. Can one sue Mushy for Kargil or Islamabad?
Posted by: G.Subramaniam May 4 2004, 07:57 PM
http://outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=219507 3 sentenced to life for killing cop in post-Godhra riots AHMEDABAD, MAY 4 (PTI) A court here today awarded life imprisonment to three persons found guilty of murdering a police constable on duty in the sensitive Gomtipur area of the city during post-Godhra communal riots in 2002. Sessions judge Sonia Gokani sentenced Mohd Shahnawaz Mohd Husssain Sheikh, Mohd Hussain Mohd Idrisi and Alamgir Rafiq Ahmed Sidddique to life imprisonment, who had hacked to death a police constable Amar Sureshrao Patil on April 21, 2002. Gokani also fined the three accused RS 40,000 each and announced that of the Rs 1,20,000 thus collected, Rs 85,000 would be given to the deceased's family. There were over 40 accused in the case but remaining were acquitted for the want of evidence. A mob had intercepted Patil while he was passing by on his motorcycle near Dhobini chali in Gomtipur. He was dragged into a lane where the mob hacked him to death using swords and other sharpedged weapons. Police had arrested 13 persons on the spot and Sheikh was caught with sword in his hand, Idrisi with big knife while Siddique was leading the mob.
Posted by: amarnath May 4 2004, 09:59 PM
Indeed there is a Juhapura in every city in India.. I very distinctly remember riots in Coimbatore had their roots in such a Juhapura.Not many pass through such area now
Posted by: rhytha May 4 2004, 10:12 PM
QUOTE (amarnath @ May 5 2004, 10:29 AM)
Indeed there is a Juhapura in every city in India.. I very distinctly remember riots in Coimbatore had their roots in such a Juhapura.Not many pass through such area now
amarnath, is police and plp still don't go thru okkadam(not very sure of the locality name, but its near that other state's bus stand right), i thought since JJ is in power, she won't allow all those minority pleasing. sad.gif
Posted by: G.Subramaniam May 5 2004, 08:22 PM
During the rule of Jayalalitha, 1991-1996 ,she ringed it with cops and barriers and frisked many muslims When DMK won the election, the muslims stabbed the cops In 1997, Al-Umma men went to the house of a hindu police officer of inspector rank and raped his wife and the police officer committed suicide Later Al Umma stabbed and killed a police constable and finally the hindus of coimbatore counter-rioted Later Al-Umma set off bomb blasts and karunanidhi was forced to arrest many of them After jayalalitha came back as CM, Ukkadam is again a mini-concentration camp, ringed with cops and check points Jayalalitha arrested several hundred Al-Umma cadre under POTA and several were 'encountered' I was in coimbatore recently and Al-Umma seems to be under control for now
Posted by: Krishna May 5 2004, 08:30 PM
QUOTE (G.Subramaniam @ May 5 2004, 10:22 PM)
When DMK won the election, the muslims stabbed the cops In 1997, Al-Umma men went to the house of a hindu police officer of inspector rank and raped his wife and the police officer committed suicide
Did the officer killed the b@st@rd or not? If not, was umma guy encountered by someone?
Posted by: amarnath May 5 2004, 08:37 PM
Ya Ukkadam Kottaimedu is that.. Pakistan of Coimbatore mad.gif The ba$tards would have managed to kill advani seven years ago on a beautiful valentine day...the series of bomb explosions....hell it was. One car bomb discovered in R.S.Puram(no no not R.S.Pura in J&K) did not detonate...had it gone off the damage would be akin to those as in Iraq explosions. Result : It was the same muslims who lost their jobs and buisness. The govt support to these idiots was so much that the RAF and CRPF had to go searching homes and mosques AFTER the collector had objected to those actions being taken.Well they simply walked in.No surprise what found was found there either. The trouble is the idiots are still walking to courts....there has been simply no improvement in getting those idiots hanged thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif Even today if you go thru this area you would find anti-national posters etc... G.S ...you in CBE ? hey guys it would be nice to have area meets like the ones BR have ? JJ always has a way with anti-national elements...be it with LTTE,naxals,al-ummas,Christian missionaries tongue.gif I was atleast happy she stopped those meetings in the marina in Madras guitar.gif
Posted by: amarnath May 5 2004, 08:40 PM
QUOTE (Krishna @ May 6 2004, 09:00 AM)
QUOTE (G.Subramaniam @ May 5 2004, 10:22 PM)
When DMK won the election, the muslims stabbed the cops In 1997, Al-Umma men went to the house of a hindu police officer of inspector rank and raped his wife and the police officer committed suicide
Did the officer killed the b@st@rd or not? If not, was umma guy encountered by someone?
Not sure about that krishna... The riots started when they stabbed to death a traffic constable who asked for three vagabonds papers and more they were three of them travelling in one bike.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam May 5 2004, 08:46 PM
The rape of the inspectors wife happened 3 months before they stabbed the traffic cop The inspector just hanged himself out of shame when he realised that DMK would not let the cops arrest the muslim rapist A lot of Al-Umma men got encountered and in hindu counter-rioting a lot more got the 'Gujurat treatment' Lots of muslim shops got burnt No I just visited CBE JJ is pretty tough on anti-nationals and 'encounters' them She shut off mosque loudspeakers a few months ago AIADMK has always been pro-hindu and a supporter of hindu munnani ( an RSS front ) This started during the time of MGR
Posted by: Kaushal May 9 2004, 06:53 PM
Here is a blatantly biased account of the Gujarat riots. This is what gets propagated, even though the organization seems to be leftist http://www.eias.org/publications/bulletin/2002/marapr02/ebmarapr02.pdf
Posted by: Mudy May 9 2004, 07:02 PM
QUOTE
attack on train carrying Hindu militant
dead were women and kids furious.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g May 9 2004, 10:21 PM
Re. Juhapura.. 1. It used to be a major route for Guj State Xport buses however the route has now been changed and hwys bypassing juhapura are now in place. 2. Some time ago no electricity meter reader dared to enter Juhapura. Last time I went there people told me they sent lots of uniforms in that place along with lots of meter readers , arrested a lot of thugs, (broke a few bones in the process) who had their own 'distribution centers' which were stealing electricity from main grids. Now its all legit. Lets see how long it stays that way. Its a communal hotspot - Kalupur, Dariapur, Gomtipur, Juhapura, Jamalpur, Dani Limda all are hotspots and for some reason or the other all entrances to the walled city of Ahmedabad are muslim localities.. blink.gif Whenever trouble breaks out the walled city just comes to a grinding halt. dry.gif
Posted by: G.Subramaniam May 10 2004, 07:08 PM
In 1985, Juhupura was 70% hindu, and muslims did low level ethnic cleansing -- 2. Some time ago no electricity meter reader dared to enter Juhapura. Last time I went there people told me they sent lots of uniforms in that place along with lots of meter readers , arrested a lot of thugs, (broke a few bones in the process) who had their own 'distribution centers' which were stealing electricity from main grids. Now its all legit. Lets see how long it stays that way. -- Lets thank Modi for that --- Its a communal hotspot - Kalupur, Dariapur, Gomtipur, Juhapura, Jamalpur, Dani Limda all are hotspots and for some reason or the other all entrances to the walled city of Ahmedabad are muslim localities.. ---- What this means is that hindus in walled city are now fully besieged and will soon be ethnic cleansed
Posted by: Mudy May 20 2004, 12:18 PM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_766812,000900040003.htm Godhra carnage main conspirator granted 2 days' bail Press Trust of India Ahmedabad, May 19 The POTA court on Wedenesday granted two days' temporary bail for the first time to Maulvi Hussain Umarji, the prime conspirator in Godhra train carnage, to attend wedding of two of his daughters in May. Granting the temporary bail for two days on May 28 and May 30, POTA judge Sonia Gokani instructed Umarji to be kept in safe custody on May 29 at a Vadodara sub-jail amidst tight security. Umarji had applied for temporary bail for a period of one week to attend the wedding of two of his daughters in Godhra town. This is the first time that the POTA court granted him bail as his previous applications, both regular and temporary, have been dismissed both by the court as well as the Supreme Court. The Godhra based cleric was arrested by the Special Investigating Team (SIT) of the Railway police in February last year and he has been in judicial custody since then. Umarji allegedly had hatched the conspiracy to attack the Sabarmati Express, along with other accused, who were part of the `core group' that executed the act and also instigated mobs to torch the S-6 coach. Fifty-eight Kar Sevaks were roasted alive inside the S-6 coach on February 27, 2002 triggering the worst ever communal riots in Gujarat. Lest we forget
Posted by: iamsaurabh May 24 2004, 07:28 AM
Hello all, Warm regards. This is the first time I am participating in india discussion forum, rather, this is the first time I am participating in any Discussion Forum. I want to share my views on the much debated, rather out dated topic "The Best Bakery Trial". So, was the Supreme Court right in ordering a fresh Trial? will this open the flood gate for any politically motivated person to knock the doors of the Supreme Court and have a retrial made of what has already been decided? Perhaps yes, and perhaps no. There is much hue and cry about this sensitive trial in the so called Secular country of india. It seems the people have suddenly gathered courage to criticize the Gujarat Judiciary, after this issue was over hyped by the media. There is no second opinion regarding the grim reality that whatever happened was very unfortunate. Then why to let those go away who are culprits? in fact, who are real culprits? Can the Trial courts convict the accused on basis of hostile witnesses? the time when the judgment was rendered in Best Bakrey Trial by the Sessions Judge, Vadodara, there was no certainity what statement Zahira Sheikh will give, she kept changing her statements almost every day. Was the judge in error when he acquitted all the accused? was the High Court of Gujarat in error when upholding that decision? Was the Supreme Court correct in ordering a retrial? One must agree to the fact that with lack of evidences on record, with the public procecutors themselves pleading for the accused, rather than making sure they get convicted for what they have done, it was rather too much to expect a Sessions judge to convict the accused. and it was not too late in the day for the Supreme Court to intervene and stop this nuisance. The Supreme Court is the protector of law, it is its first and foremost duty to ensure justice is delivered. What happened in Best Bakery case is a miscarage of law that stares one right in his eyes. One should pause and think, do I really live in a secular state? Did I vote for E.D.Amin? The Supreme Court has done its job, so have the people of India in the recent elections. I am not promoting any political party nor am I opposing any. I am promoting the freedom of life and liberty that has been ensured to each and every citizen of India by the Constitution. I am promoting the spirit of liberation that each and everyone of us possess, I am promoting the spirit of justice, which allows us to live in a society, and keeps our nation away from becoming some small Roman village in middle ages, which was ruled by some Church, where the state was the religion. Its high time we liberate ourselves, educate ourselves and free ourselves from the clutches of religious minded blind powers. Let us all respect each other's religions, and thus, respect eachother. The Supreme Court can order a retrial in rarest of rate cases, to protect and uphold the rule of law, to provide the fundamental rights granted under the constitution to each and everyone, including the minorities. This topic might fetch many adverse comments, I don't care. I thought it to be my duty to tell you all something you already know but don't realize! It is upto you to either sit back and read in the news papers of yet another retrial, or to make a diffrence and make yourselves heard. I wish you all the very best, and I wish this great country all the very best. Saurabh Dixit, Advocate
Posted by: rajesh_g May 24 2004, 10:10 AM
Mr Saurabh Dixit, Welcome to the forum. First of all your post is confusing - its hard to figure out what you are trying to say, to be honest. For example..
QUOTE
will this open the flood gate for any politically motivated person to knock the doors of the Supreme Court and have a retrial made of what has already been decided?
Could you clarify this ? Now since we have a different party at the center what is to stop the new party to affect the supreme-court judiciary ? Suppose the retrial happens in Bihar/WB where the party in power is ideologically opposed to the one in Gujarat - what is to stop that party from influencing the case ? You also state..
QUOTE
The Supreme Court has done its job, so have the people of India in the recent elections.
Can you clarify this also ? As you follow up with ..
QUOTE
I am not promoting any political party nor am I opposing any. I am promoting the freedom of life and liberty that has been ensured to each and every citizen of India by the Constitution. I am promoting the spirit of liberation that each and everyone of us possess, I am promoting the spirit of justice, which allows us to live in a society, and keeps our nation away from becoming some small Roman village in middle ages, which was ruled by some Church, where the state was the religion.
Once again, since you are an advocate and *might* understand the legal ramifications of this more then us (the ones who dont realise stuff) please explain the kind of precedent this has set. Regards..
Posted by: k.ram Jun 7 2004, 08:41 PM
ohmy.gif Is this a new Psec group? ---------------------------------- Empowering the Impoverished Gujarat 2002 [India] was a nightmare few would be able to forget. But it was also a challenge for the conscientious to rebuild from the ashes of despair. SPRAT has responded with vigour and commitment, with the support of persons of goodwill of all religions and regions. SPRAT fights for justice, promotes communal harmony and works for the empowerment of the impoverished in a rational manner. SPRAT’s intervention helped save an academic year for over 20,000 high school students, helped hundreds of victims receive a modest compensation and restore basic livelihood and helped nearly 3000 victims rebuild their modest dwellings and help save precious lives by supplying critical medicines. Unsubscribe? We apologize for intruding. This is not a spam. Perhaps you will feel happy spending 3 minutes reading this. 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Posted by: Viren Jun 8 2004, 08:27 AM
Any online versions of: "The 1969 Communal Riots in Ahmedabad: A Case Study" by Shah, Ghanshyam Googling didn't help sad.gif
Posted by: Viren Jun 8 2004, 08:49 AM
In 1980s during Cong I CM raj: Under Madhav Singh Solanki, 276 people died in 117 incidents of mob violence. Under Amar Singh Chaudhuri, 582 persons died in 413 incidents of violence. And under Chimanbhai Patel, who was chief minister twice, 563 persons died in 370 incidents of violence Total: 1421 died in 900 incidents of violence
Posted by: rajesh_g Jun 8 2004, 06:13 PM
Viren, source ?
Posted by: Viren Jun 8 2004, 07:40 PM
rajesh_g: Was an article from Ali Asghar E - those familiar with his drivel will know the source. Check your email.
Posted by: kautilya Jun 14 2004, 11:44 AM
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:HCBRCQ2ZEvIJ:timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp%3Fart_ID%3D2540690++site:timesofindia.indiatimes.com++Bharat+Desai+gujarat&hl=en
QUOTE
The death toll in the last four days of mob frenzy has crossed the 400-mark though a state government spokesman put the toll at 289, including 47 people killed in police firing. The toll excludes the 58 people who died in Godhra in the attack on the train.
http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:7lQFvgmCpxgJ:timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow.asp%3Fart_ID%3D3055362++site:timesofindia.indiatimes.com++Bharat+Desai+gujarat&hl=en
QUOTE
The official statistics say that 99 persons have been killed in police firing. The security forces have fired 5176 rounds of ammunition at the mobs as well as 7276 tear gas shells. Nearly 2459 houses, 2082 shops, 1084 cabins and 448 vehicles, including 12 buses, have been set on fire.
Posted by: bachan Jun 14 2004, 01:35 PM
Obvious logic is RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal use communal polarization to increase support, but don't need to when they are in power. If you give the thief keys to the safe, obviously money will be safe. I am not saying others (Muslim groups, Congress 1984) don't commit riots. But VHP etc. are the kings of this.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jun 14 2004, 02:28 PM
bachan, please use google to read about all the riots that Viren is talking about and then comment.
Posted by: Viren Jun 14 2004, 03:21 PM
QUOTE (bachan @ Jun 14 2004, 04:35 PM)
I am not saying others (Muslim groups, Congress 1984) don't commit riots. But VHP etc. are the kings of this.
bachan: If you have data on riots in India, I'd be interested in reading. We can then start deciding as who's king or queen dry.gif
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 14 2004, 07:24 PM
Bachan ---- I can refer you to a study by a muslim woman Zenab Banu, in an article called Politics of Communalism She lists riots between 1900-1979 In the pre-partition times, 90% of all riots were started by muslims In the post partition times say 1953-1979 This period is important since the partition riots had stopped and Ayodhya was yet to begin During this period, muslims started 75% of all riots Regarding Gujurat riots VHP has units in 10,000 villages and riots happened in only 200 of these villages Next Ahmedabad was ruled by congress municipality Many hindu congressmen took part in riots Some of these hindu congress men even got tickets for the election from Sonia The congress ruled Administration had access to the road laying tar machines and they paved over the demolished mosques Next the riots had 3 phases 1. Godhra 2. Post Godhra hindu backlash for 2 weeks until March 15 3. Muslim rioting from March 15 to August Muslims initiated 155 riots during this period Lets thank Modi for enforcing the rule of law on muslim ghettos in Gujurat for the first time ever Muslims can no longer steal electricity in Godhra Finally before talking about riots live in a muslim ghetto for a few months and you will realise the danger to the life of the kafir, thanks to islamic proclivity for violence
Posted by: Kavi Jun 14 2004, 07:59 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jun 15 2004, 02:58 AM)
bachan, please use google to read about all the riots that Viren is talking about and then comment.
Bachan, BJP & Co. is now more popular in Jackson Heights, Queens, NY, NY than here it seems, so please do take that into account. Rajesh Ji , Every pre 1990 riot in India does not mean Congress is responsible, Hindu Muslim riots, the responsibility of which primarily lies with Muslim & Hindu fundamentalists emerged during the last century, during the freedom struggle and we may say led to partition and venom still carries on in our blood to date. Congress philosophy is not flaming in nature like BJPs ( I mean what the minorities make of it, Pariwar is free to think what it likes, that they are spreading a benevolent Hindutva , but the reality is even Sikhs don't seem agree with it ), though it has used such tactics from time to time, but never thumped its chest blatantly saying " we will take Modi experiment" to the whole India andthe whole country has heard Modi, Togaidias and Co. blatantly going around using filthy and communal language. A large majority of Hindus too are repulsed by all this. That's why you need a mask of an ABV and are in the process dumping him now as people can see thru all this sham . To most of the people here who are not as nuanced as BJP supporters or forgiving of massacres, Modi experiment is the mayhem they saw on their TV screens for 3 days. Secondly in India the guilty party is fully prepared to file the first FIR, blaming the other and is willing to use more power and money to do it to thwart the process to protect itself, as Modi has been doing shamelessly and getting the worst of strictures form the Supreme Court , the last of our somewhat free institutions. His record at subjugating independent institutions is getting as bad as Indira, though he has a much smaller canvas to play around. Google can't tell you the reality on India or connect the dots. Can you ask Google Ji or any one else and let us know : What has happened to the Godhara Kar Sewak case, under the watch of Modi CM & Advani the very very tough HM, your "Loh Purush".. Hope you undestand that it means both the police & CBI are under you charge. When are the dead going to see justice. BJP never seems to be serious in doing any thing for Hindus in distress, nether Kashmiri nor those that are claimed to have been burnt by Muslim fanatics under its watch , and nor will it let the institutions function. Regards,
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 14 2004, 08:19 PM
The BJP record of institutions is better than congress, Commies and Laloo Communal riots have been documented as early as the 14th century by Ibn Batuta wherein he notes muslims rioted in the hindu kingdom of kerala Since 1700, Ahmedabad has had religious riots, initiated by muslims
Posted by: rajesh_g Jun 14 2004, 08:58 PM
Kavi Ji, Either you are trying to make several points or no points at all. Whatever the case may be you are really confusing the heck out of me.. 1. You are trying to come out as some kind of "independent minded" guy ? 2. You are trying to say that partition came about due to muslim AND hindu fundamentalists ? 3. What is "godhra kar sewak case" ? Are you talking about the case where the kar sewaks harassed and eventually kidnapped the muslim chaiwallahs girl ? 4. Which "independent institutions have been sugjugated ? 5. What are you referring to when you say "those that are claimed to have been burnt by Muslim fanatics under its watch" ?
Posted by: Nikhil Jun 15 2004, 12:55 AM
QUOTE
BJP & Co. is now more popular in Jackson Heights, Queens, NY, NY than here it seems, so please do take that into account.
What you are smoking??? Jackson Heights in Queens, NY is completely taken over by beggerdeshis, i hardly see indian or for a matter hindus having any majority in Jackson Heights et al. And i think beggerdeshis follow the paki line of hating BJP. So how about you put a cork .. u know where.. and next time come with facts than some congress-communist agenda. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
QUOTE
Hindu fundamentalists
Can you teach us about the "hindu fundamentalists" since i dont know any "hindu fundamentals" out there, so i dont know how without any fundamentals a hindu can become so called "hindu fundamentalis". Beta..Haj Mola Khao aur Jaldi se Haj pe jao!!
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 15 2004, 03:45 AM
Rajesh. For every question you ask, he will ask you 5 questions and 10 baseless stmt, while you wait for your answers. Kavi > When are the dead going to see justice. When ppl with healthy eyes refuse to see why talk abt dead ppl. Kavi > ..getting the worst of strictures form the Supreme Court Same Supreme Court which has denied justice to "Uphaar Cinema fire case", when no political party is involved, there is no Modi here .. no Hindutva here... Same Supreme Court which says "forced oral sex" is not RAPE. Those highly paid morrons who have bleeding summer & winter vaccations think that they are unable to decide that its a RAPE ! Hope something like that happens to SCourt Judges's family. Supreme court is Feudal like many other institutes in India , thought exceptions are always there. Kavi > BJP never seems to be serious in doing any thing for Hindus in distress Ahh .. something to agree upon. Wonder why Liberal / Intellectual Bastards were cribbing abt Hindutva etc etc.. Regards
Posted by: acharya Jun 15 2004, 11:50 AM
Christian group slams Narendra Modi Monday June 14 2004 00:00 IST IANS NEW DELHI: A Christian organisation has condemned Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi for what it described as a crackdown on NGOs working for people affected by the 2002 sectarian violence in the state. In a press statement issued here on Sunday, the Global Council of Indian Christians expressed shock at the questioning of a human rights activist, Jesuit Father Cedric Prakash, by the criminal investigation department of Gujarat police on Thursday. The organization appealed to former prime minister and Bharatiya Janata Party leader Atal Bihari Vajpayee to restrain Modi from carrying out "any further diabolic designs resulting in the loss of precious lives and communal divides". At least 1,000 people lost their lives in the sectarian violence in 2002.
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 16 2004, 06:07 AM
> At least 1,000 people lost their lives in the sectarian violence in 2002. Phew!!! ONLEE 1,000 , but were 3000+ killed / raped ? Even gentry who stays AHEAD OF THE CURVE mentioned 3000 etc ? Madarsaa Math == Chritian Math ??
Posted by: bachan Jun 16 2004, 02:19 PM
I will bring figures to this debate soon. And role of RSS/VHP/Bajrang Dal in riots will be exposed.
Posted by: Nalwa Jun 16 2004, 07:59 PM
Thank god for the the RSS and the VHP. Bachan, or muhamed khan whatever your name is , if muslis kill hindu's - be sure that hindu will kill muslis. Why don't you and your majlis focus on teaching your people to learn to leave in peace with their Hindu neighbours - instead of your usual ghisi-piti arguments on India Forum. If the muslis can learn to do that, there will be no riots and killings.
Posted by: Viren Jun 16 2004, 08:17 PM
Nalwa, In the interests of keeping the discussion open, can we try to discuss the issue rather than individuals? Otherwise this thread has a very short life. Thanks
Posted by: Mudy Jun 16 2004, 08:23 PM
bachan, Make sure to back information from valid source and data of other compartive groups e.g. SIMI, MIM, JIM, John Dayal and Congress-I.
Posted by: bachan Jun 17 2004, 11:32 AM
I believe that all those who are involved in communalism should be punished, Hindu, Muslim, every person. Targeting innocents whether Hindu, Muslim, Xian is unlawful. Congress was guilty in 1984, and SIMI/ISS/Muslim groups have played role too, but in this forum many are sympathetic to Sangh Parivar and turn blind eye to biggest culprit in India. So in next day or so I will give counter evidence.
Posted by: Mudy Jun 17 2004, 12:14 PM
QUOTE
sympathetic to Sangh Parivar and turn blind eye to biggest culprit in India. So in next day or so I will give counter evidence
Don't throw useless quotes, give some data. Next time when you post give us facts and don't spread rumor which you can't back. No reply without facts will be entertained from you in IF.
Posted by: Viren Jun 17 2004, 03:33 PM
QUOTE (bachan @ Jun 17 2004, 02:32 PM)
I believe that all those who are involved in communalism should be punished, Hindu, Muslim, every person. Targeting innocents whether Hindu, Muslim, Xian is unlawful.
Well said bachan thumbup.gif I find it hard to imagine any civilized human being anywhere disagreeing to that. The disagreement stems from your pre-drawn conclusions. I'd be most interested in knowing what makes Gujarat riots so different from other riots in India. Since you have already undertaken this task, I'll take the liberty of asking you to compile a list of all riots since '47. List all the Prime Ministers,cheif ministers, Parivar types in any seat of power at that time of those riots. Any additional listing of mullas and padres - optional. Place of riots of course is a must. List the loss of lives and property (if possible by religion, caste and ethnicity) during all those riots will be helpful. Might also add in the number of policeman killed in those riots (will help us give a clue if it's "state-sponsored"). Any other data you wish to add. If at any place data's missing, don't bother, we'll request other forumites to help. You just give it your best shot. Let's make an honest effort to look at all this data and see if we can see some patterns. We might even find that your conclusions are in fact correct.
Posted by: k.ram Jun 23 2004, 12:57 PM
http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jun/22arvind.htm
Posted by: k.ram Jun 23 2004, 01:56 PM
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=49457
Posted by: Viren Jul 8 2004, 09:55 AM
x-post http://www.samachar.com/features/080704-features.html
QUOTE
There would have been ghastly riots in Gujarat even if there was no Modi as Chief Minister. Modi was not the Chief Minister in 1969. The Chief Minister of Gujarat then as Hitendra Desai, a Congressman. Why hasn't Hitendra Desai been demonised? In his book `Ethnic Conflict and Civil Life: Hindus and Muslims in India', Ashutosh Varshney writes: "When the riots broke out in September 1969 Congressmen were nowhere to be seen. (They were nowhere to be seen in 2002 either). Neither the leaders nor the cadres were active in containing communal violence." Another writer, Nagindas Sanghavi noted that the riots left behind "a toll of 1,500 victims and strained the social fabric as also the administrative machinery to almost breaking point"0. Significantly, the Jagmohan Reddy Enquiry Commission absolved the the Jan Sangh and the RSS from charges of participation in the riots. Our secular press has a way of forgetting what is convenient to it. According to N. S. Saxena and S. K. Ghosh, 600 persons were killed of whom 80% happened to be Muslims while over 30,000 Muslims became refugees. Nearly ten districts were affected of which the maximum number of incidents recorded were from Baroda (138), Araira (100) and Mehsana (65). What ism did Hitendra Desai practise? Was it Congress-ism? The saddest part of it all is that the September 7, 1969 riots in Baroda took place when a huge procession of 10,000 Muslims protested against the desecration of the Al Aqsa mosque in, of all places, Jerusalem! This had nothing to do with Hindus in India and yet the processionists raised slogans saying: Joh humse takrayega woh mitti mein mil jayega (whoever comes in conflict with us will be reduced to ashes).
Posted by: Viren Jul 14 2004, 08:09 AM
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/14guj.htm?headline=Godhra:~Lalu~Prasad~orders~fresh~probe
Posted by: Mudy Jul 18 2004, 04:13 PM
How outsiders lit fire from inside Sanjay Singh/ New Delhi Saturday, July 17, 2004 Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav can console himself with the fact that intelligence reports, Gujarat Police findings and statements of witnesses and the accused, filed before the SIT and the Nanavati Commission are in conformity with what he wished to reveal in Parliament - that the fire in Coach No S6 of Sabarmati Express at Godhra was ignited from inside, not from outside. The investigations into the Godhra case were also proceeding on the same basis, when, during preliminary investigations, sleuths found that petrol was not poured into the train from outside. The incident took place on February 27, 2002 and 59 passengers were burnt to death. However there is a twist in the tale, which Mr Lalu Yadav may find unpalatable. The report submitted to the Nanavati Commission and also before the court where the accused are being tried, said that the Godhra incident was part of a conspiracy. On February 26, 2002, two meetings took place at Aman Guest House, Singal Falia, Godhra, where Haji Bilal and Farukh Bhana asked some of their group members followin specific instructions from Maulvi Hussain Umerji for setting afire some bogies of the Sabarmati Express, which was returning from Ayodhya. The intelligence report says the owner of the guest house, Abdul Razak Kurkur and his close associates were asked to collect petrol the same night. They procured 140 litres of petrol and kept it in the guest house. The actual timing of the train's arrival was verified from the Godhra railway station at around 1.30 am. The train was approximately four hours late, and was expected to reach only after 6 am. When the train started moving away from the platform, one of the conspirators, Salim Badan alias Panwala, the report said, got into the train, along with his associates. They were asked to pull the chain of the train from various compartments. As the train halted, there was a commotion on the platform and after a while, heavy stone pelting started. The report says, in the resultant confusion, the criminals got time to transport the petrol inside. It was carried in a loading rikshaw from the guest house, near Cabin A of the Godhra station. Some criminals forced an entry into S-6 by cutting open the "vestibule cover" (the portion which joins the two coaches. From there the petrol cans were emptied in S-6. The bogie was subsequently set on fire by throwing burning rags into the compartment through broken windows by criminals who remained outside. They had broken the windows of the compartment with iron rods. Police records say while all this was going on, slogans were also raised. Sources said the report was based on investigations made by the police and intelligence agencies and on the basis of a statement made by one of the main accused, Jabir Binyamin Behera, who was arrested in January 2003. Jabir also gave his confessional statement in the court of chief judicial magistrate, Godhra on Feb 5, 2003. His statement under the law is considered an admissible piece of law, sources said. www.dailypioneer.com/inde...nter_img=2
Posted by: Viren Jul 19 2004, 09:39 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Jul 18 2004, 07:13 PM)
However there is a twist in the tale, which Mr Lalu Yadav may find unpalatable. The report submitted to the Nanavati Commission and also before the court where the accused are being tried, said that the Godhra incident was part of a conspiracy.
Laloo had already decided on the outcome of within a week of the tragedy. So don't expect any sensational news from this fresh round of inquiry. Scroll down on the link to read: http://www.ndtv.com/template/completetimeline.asp?template1=Gujaratviolence
Posted by: Mudy Jul 20 2004, 08:41 AM
http://www.indiacause.com/columns/OL_040713.htm
QUOTE
Obviously, all ingredients for conflict exist. In the prevailing conditions, can peace exist? A definite No. But the Indian English Print Media (IEPM) insists it can. What is its solution? It is advising that Hindus should accept all the blows from Muslims and Christians, that Hindus should not at all react and that the Hindu's instinct of self-preservation is wrong.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jul 27 2004, 04:57 AM
From Hindu Unity -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Since two days two muslims were harassing a Hindu Girl attending the Girls High school on Bunder Road in Veraval town of Saurastra. The school teacher kept a watch for two days and found two muslims harassing the Hindu girl. Then, the teacher informed the police about the muslims and the muslims were arrested. Hearing this, the muslim cooperator munir and his muslim gang came to the school and beat the school teacher and teared down his shirt. Then the riots spread in the town and about 60 shops are burnt down. In Jalaram Nagar Society the muslim crowd caught a Hindu boy and killed the boy hammering his face with stones. One muslim and one Hindu boy are dead. That muslim cooperator munir is injured in the police firing. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/citypage/-2128821153.cms Here you can see a hindu family fleeing islamic rioters
Posted by: Viren Jul 28 2004, 10:19 AM
http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/28arvind.htm
QUOTE
The latest UNDP report's remark that India's reputation as a model constitutional protector of the country's remarkable cultural diversity has begun to fray because of the 2002 'genocide' in Gujarat is outrageous ignorance and insolence of the report's authors. According to the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, 'genocide' refers to 'acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.' Note that little word 'a' in that definition. When Nazi Germany extinguished six million of a single group called Jews, that was genocide. When, in 1984, Congress party goons extinguished over 3,000 of a single group called Sikhs, that too was genocide. In 1989-1990, when some Muslims in the Kashmir valley slaughtered some 10,000 Kashmiri Pandits, killed or raped their women in front of their eyes, and ultimately expelled some 350,000 Pandits from their homes, that was genocide of a religious group. In Gujarat 2002, however, of the total deaths (as per the home ministry's official annual report for 2002-2003, page 6), about a third were Hindus (including 59 charred in a train compartment) and 200 in all were killed in police firing. If, at one stage, 100,000 Muslims were struggling in relief camps, so were 40,000 Hindus. Thus, Gujarat 2002 was not genocide of one ethnic community as the UNDP report alleges. Secondly, the authors of that report want us to believe that but for Gujarat 2002, the constitutional secularism of Indian democracy has by and large fulfilled its promise of all communities living in a paradise of religious pluralism. That's a falsehood. The truth is documented in the book Riots & Wrongs (India First Foundation, New Delhi, 2004) written by R N P Singh, an ex-officer of India's Intelligence Bureau who was honoured with the President's Police Medal and Indian Police Medal. Statistics cited by Singh show that communal violence in India occurred in each and every year from 1954 to 1985. The total number of communal incidents in those 31 years was 8,449 (an annual average of 273), the total number of persons killed in that period was 7,229 (an annual average of 233), and the number of persons injured in those incidents was 47,321 (an annual average of 1,526). After 1985, communal riots have also occurred in every year from 1986 to 1995, and in 1997, 2002 (besides Gujarat), and 2003. Today's 'secular' journalists in denims and Lalu-like politicians in khadi are the fundamentalist secularists who believe that communal riots in India are caused by the RSS-VHP-BJP trinity. And pinko historians salivate in tracing Hindu-Muslim riots to British colonial scheming. But history again tells a different tale. In their 564-page narrative on India's long road to independence, Anthony Read and Davis Fischer write, 'The British may have utilized the division between Hindus and Muslims, but they certainly did not invent it: there had been communal friction since at least the time of Aurangzeb' who ruled India from 1658 till his death in 1707. (The Proudest Day, PIMLICO, 1998, page 7. However, the first reported Hindu-Muslim riot took place in 1713 AD -- 212 years before the RSS was formed, 251 years before the VHP was founded, and 289 years before the Gujarat riots broke out after 59 Hindus were burnt to death in a train. Indeed, before the RSS was born in 1925, Singh's book records the occurrence of some 150 Hindu-Muslim riots and, unbelievably, of four riots between Muslims and... Parsis! If Golwalkar and his so-called Hindu fanatics were not yet on the scene, why had those pre-1925 riots happened? A glimpse of the truth can be had from those four Muslim-Parsi riots traced to Bombay by Singh's book. In 1850, a Parsi journalist published a photograph of Mohammad Paigambar in his newspaper. Muslims started assaulting all Parsis. In 1851, a magazine edited by a Parsi youth gave an account of the Prince of Arabia and an undiscovered villain posted a lithograph portrait of the Prophet on the entrance of a mosque. That was enough for Muslims to belabour Parsis. In 1857, Muslims killed a Parsi high priest and a notorious Parsi character for his supposed insult to Islam and for receiving from the British what was deemed as only a mild punishment. The 1874 riots too originated because of a Parsi's translation of an American writer's article on the Prophet. (BTW, does all that tell us why India's modern-day journalists do not touch Islam with a barbed pen?) It was thus abundantly clear more than 150 years ago, if not more, that their religion, Islam, was the be-all and end-all of Muslims in India. Even Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi failed to alter that mindset. It was but a matter of time before Pakistan was carved out from British India with accompanying rivers of human blood and oceans of human tears. Not satisfied, the new Islamic country invaded the Kashmir valley to secure its possession on religious grounds. Came the Constitution of India on January 26, 1950, founded on noble secular principles although its architect, Dr B R Ambedkar, was convinced about his thesis that Muslims cannot co-exist with non-Muslims (Thoughts on Pakistan, Thacker & Co, Bombay, 1946). This thesis has been subsequently endorsed by several Muslims themselves. Thus, in The Telegraph, Calcutta, of April 29, 1986, Tara Ali Baig wrote that the problem with the Muslims is that they 'insist on living lives by a fixed set of laws laid down for them in an Arab country long ago, which even today they consider inflexible, unalterable doctrine. This is the real root of the separate existence of Muslims in India. They do not know where to turn except to Mecca and the home of their religion.' Muslim intellectuals in India like eminent jurist M C Chagla, ex-politician and scholar Dr Rafiq Zakaria, and senior journalist M J Akbar have shared this view. The conflict of interest between Muslims and non-Muslims and, what's more, between intra-Muslim sects themselves, has been substantiated outside India. The research findings of Jonathan Fox (published in his book Islam And The West) on the Cold War and post-Cold War activities of Islamic groups support Samuel Huntington's thesis that 'Islam is one of the greatest participants in civilizational conflicts'. As observed in the Journal of Peace Research (vol 38, no 4, 2001, Sage Publications, London), the Islamic civilization is conflicting with all other religions and not just the West. By ignoring the fallout of the inherently inimical nature of Islam, the UNDP report errs further by believing that all over the world people can have multiple and complementary identities without creating a conflict between the assertion of ethnicity and the honouring of citizenship obligations. Citing the factual situations in Lebanon, Cyprus, Israel, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Algeria, Egypt, Iran, Afghanistan, India, Russia and China, R N P Singh concludes, 'Muslims, whether in minority or majority, are always in conflict with others on one cause or the other. They never agree to join the mainstream with the non-Muslim majority and always demand separate land, separate law, separate educational institutions, and separate concessions. Their usual approach is to launch jehad or holy war against non-Muslims.' This reality is slowly but surely dawning on the advanced Western world where Muslim immigrants are swelling by the day. Unlike India's ostrich-like media, leading newspapers abroad are beginning to look sharply at Islam's tenets. Take Britain, where Muslim immigrants are now in the third generation stage. According to a recent poll in that country, 13 percent of British Muslims 'approved of a renewed terrorist assault, on the scale of the 9/11 outrage, on targets in America and Britain'. (India Link International magazine, London, June-July 2004 issue). In that same publication are the views of Sarfraz Manzoor, the deputy commissioning editor at Channel 4, and of Lord Nazir Ahmed. Manzoor condemned 'the alienated and angry young Muslims who, though born here, do not accept Britain as their homeland.' Lord Nazir was critical of the imams in England who deliver fiery sermons and bemoaned, 'Young Muslims who come under the influence and spell of such narrow-minded imams are filled with nothing but animosity and absurd notions about Britain and the British people.' In the Netherlands, a recent survey of 813 Dutch adults by TNS NIPO pollsters for De Volkskrant newspaper found that 36 percent of the Dutch feel threatened by Muslims in the Netherlands and only 15 percent regard their culture positively. In Italy, writer Stefania A, an Italian ex-Muslim woman, recently condemned the social, political, and religious attitude of Muslim immigrants to Italy, bemoaned their unwillingness to do anything to integrate themselves with Italians, and told them to leave if they were not satisfied with what Italy offered them. There is also France where the head scarf for Muslim schoolgirls caused such a furore among the Muslim community and forced the government to be determined to ban its wearing. Taking Europe as a whole, the increasing assertiveness of Muslims has resulted in some intellectuals predicting the continent's name being changed in the near future to 'Eurabia.' Finally, the USA. More and more mainstream journalists are uncovering facts that will wean away the naïve belief that Islam is a religion of peace. The latest is from Nicholas D Kristoff. Writing in The New York Times, he made the telling assessment, 'We have quite properly linked the fundamentalist religious tracts of Islam with the intolerance they nurture.' (Reproduced in The Asian Age, Mumbai, July 20, 2004.) It's a tragedy of our times then that the UNDP report's authors chose to wear blinkers when it gushed about cultural diversity being compatible with integrated citizenship without taking the Islamic world into account. By the way, how much does producing a UNDP report cost? What purpose does it, and other such UN reports, serve? Might it not be better for the world body to spend that money, howsoever small or big, on offering succour to the victims of such genocides as were perpetrated on the Sikhs in 1984 and the Kashmiri Pandits in 1989-1990?
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 6 2004, 04:51 PM
In my opinion this is a dangerous legal precedent that the honourable court has set. No matter what they say this should not be seen as a reflection on the competence and impartiality of the Judiciary in Gujarat - the decision is seen as that the court has cast aspersions on competence and impartiality of the judiciary in Gujarat. I think if someone who loses a case in Gujarat these days must appeal on basis of this judgement. The other dangerous precedent that these "relocation of cases" has set is that now its open-season for ALL citizens to order relocation of cases on basis of incompetence and partiality of their respective state judiciary. A couple of such high profile cases are badly needed. argue.gif http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=gujaratviolence&slug=SC+transfers+Bilkis+case+to+Maharashtra&id=15032&callid=0&category=National
QUOTE
The Supreme Court has transferred the Bilkis Yakoob Rasool gangrape case from Gujarat to Maharashtra. This is the second case linked to the Gujarat riots to be transferred out of the state. Hoping for justice For Bilkis Yakoob Rasool who was gang raped in the post-Godhra riots in Gujarat and had 14 members of her family massacred there is now hope. "Bombay High court will decide which bench and court will take up the Bilkis case in Mumbai," said Shobha, counsel for Bilkis. The Gujarat government, for whom the order is a major setback, did not oppose the transfer, but asked the court not to cast aspersions on the judiciary in Gujarat. And the court even while transferring the case said, "this should not be seen as a reflection on the competence and impartiality of the Judiciary in Gujarat." Living in terror But activists believe the transfer has ensured that victims like Bilkis need no longer live in terror of their lives. Bilkis had alleged that witnesses were being threatened and a fair trial was not possible in Gujarat. There are ten more Gujarat riot cases pending before the Supreme Court, all asking to be transferred out of the state. And after this order, the victims will be hoping for a similar verdict.
Posted by: k.ram Aug 6 2004, 08:37 PM
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1040806/asp/nation/story_3590402.asp
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 8 2004, 10:26 AM
In the above article SC said....
QUOTE
And the court even while transferring the case said, "this should not be seen as a reflection on the competence and impartiality of the Judiciary in Gujarat."
But now Bilkis says... http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/aug/08guj.htm Did SC lie ? I think the judgement can be used by ANYONE to have their cases transferred out of Guj since SC has itself raised a question mark on competence and impartiality of the Judiciary in Gujarat.
Posted by: Viren Aug 8 2004, 07:29 PM
If I'm not mistaken, couple months ago someone had got a corrupt magistrate in Gujarat to sign warrant against SC chief justice, President etc. In retrospect looks like this sting operation was staged for a good reason.
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 9 2004, 10:34 AM
Dorkish edit from IE.. http://indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=52672
Posted by: Viren Aug 18 2004, 07:26 AM
x-post from other thread: http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20040823&fname=ZbCol+Siddharth&sid=1
QUOTE
What If Godhra Hadn't Happened? Would Naroda Patiya have burned, would Ehsan Jafri have been killed, the Best Bakery been destroyed and Bilkis Bano been raped? SIDDHARTH VARADARAJAN Sometime in the run-up to the assassination of Mahatma Gandhi by Nathuram Godse, the UP police made a sensational discovery. A house used by RSS supremo Guruji Golwalkar had been raided and two locked trunks recovered. When B.B.L. Jaitley, the inspector general of police, opened the trunks, what he found shook him to the core. There before him lay a detailed district-by-district, qasbah-by-qasbah blueprint for the physical elimination of the province’s Muslims. Jaitley took the trunks to Rajeshwar Dayal, the seniormost civil servant in the home department at the time, who promptly conveyed the gravity of the discovery to G. B. Pant. The documents "revealed incontrovertible evidence of a dastardly conspiracy to create a communal holocaust.... The trunks were crammed with blueprints of great accuracy...prominently marking out the Muslim localities.... Timely raids conducted on the premises of the RSS had brought the massive conspiracy to light," recalled Dayal in his autobiography, A Life of Our Times, published in 1998. He sought the immediate arrest of Golwalkar on conspiracy charges but the chief minister, to Dayal’s disgust, prevaricated long enough for Golwalkar to go underground. Soon thereafter, Dayal was drafted into the Indian Foreign Service and the matter of the steel trunks was given a quiet burial. That plan may never have been put into action but the clerical efficiency with which the RSS and its kindred organisations have sought periodically to target Muslims for attack suggests the parivar’s penchant for planning and organisation has continued down to the present. What happened in Gujarat from February 28, 2002, is a case in point. Far from being a spontaneous mass reaction to the attack on the Sabarmati Express at Godhra the day before in which 58 Hindu passengers died, the killings across most of Gujarat seemed scripted. So well chosen were the targets that it is almost as if there was already in place a plan to do something dramatic as part of the ongoing Ayodhya agitation, probably in order to polarise the state on communal lines in the run-up to state elections that the BJP might have had some difficulty winning on the basis of its actual performance. If Godhra hadn’t happened, would it have been necessary to invent it? I don’t know, but the Godhra incident itself is so shrouded in mystery that it is almost as if the official narrative which emerged within minutes and hours of the train being consumed by fire is an invented one, conveniently conjured up to provide the "rationale" for the pogrom which had simultaneously been ordained. It is difficult to ask ‘What if Godhra had not happened’ when we still do not know what exactly happened at Godhra. The official account, as put out by Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi, is that a large Muslim mob assembled on the railway tracks outside Godhra station stopped the Sabarmati Express and launched a premeditated attack on coach S-6, killing 58 passengers. The official chargesheet says one or more members of the mob boarded the coach and poured some 60 litres of petrol inside before setting it on fire. This dastardly attack, according to the BJP’s narrative, in turn provoked a "reaction" throughout Gujarat which claimed the lives of nearly 2,000 Muslims. Had Godhra not happened, the Muslims would not have been killed. Action-Reaction. When a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake. I regret what happened after Godhra, A.B. Vajpayee told the party faithful at Goa in April 2002, "Lekin aag lagayi kisne? (Who lit the fire?)". These Newtonian certitudes begin to break down when we consider the holes in the official account. Passengers who were on board the targeted coach, and let there be no doubt that an angry mob was attacking S-6, have testified before the ongoing Nanavati-Shah Commission of Inquiry that they saw no one from the mob entering the coach and pouring petrol inside. The Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL) report makes it clear the liquid could not have been thrown from outside. It says no trace of petroleum hydrocarbons was recovered from the burnt coach, raising questions about the identity of the flammable material which destroyed the coach that morning. How the train caught fire, whether or not there was intent—and if so, on the part of who—are questions which nobody can answer. Why the BJP government never conducted a comprehensive scientific probe to solve the puzzles raised by the FSL report is a mystery. Had Godhra not happened, would Naroda Patiya have burned, would Ehsan Jafri have been killed, the Best Bakery been destroyed and Bilkis Bano been raped? These questions are deeply problematic because they are tainted by the bankruptcy of the Sangh parivar’s moral arithmetic. When you have an organisation like the VHP whose cadres are capable of the most horrific violence, when you have a police force that is willing to let innocent citizens be attacked, and when you have chief ministers and prime ministers who offer post-facto justifications for genocide, it is a dangerous delusion to believe the Gujarat violence occurred because of Godhra. The Gujarat violence happened because the government wanted it to. Godhra was just the excuse. Godhra has infected our polity in a particularly pernicious way because the incident marked the first time that revenge was elevated to the status of moral code and official policy in such a blatant and sustained manner. When Rajiv Gandhi justified the 1984 genocide of Sikhs with his callous throwaway remark about the earth shaking when a big tree falls, it evoked widespread revulsion. Mention 1984 and even the most die-hard Rajiv loyalist today appears to display a certain shabby shame-facedness at the idea that the killing of Indira Gandhi by two Sikhs or the motivated rumour of Sikhs distributing sweets could somehow justify the monstrous killings which followed. But the Sangh parivar and BJP leaders today continue to believe that Godhra fully justifies the mass killing of Muslims which followed. I am not looking for expressions of remorse or guilt. That would be foolish, apart from being quite irrelevant. What I want to see are some signs that the Indian polity has learnt the lessons of Godhra and after and will never again permit genocide. And what I see is simply not enough. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siddharth Varadarajan’s edited volume Gujarat: The Making of a Tragedy, was published in 2002
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 18 2004, 04:36 PM
My god !! How sick is this guy ? 1. He brings in RSS history - whether true or not is not the issue. 2. This has just been mentioned in some guy's autobio - nothing else - but that is true according to him. 3. And hence he deduces it must be RSS and Godhra is just excuse. Not one shred of remorse on his part (as useless as that would be) for what happened in Godhra - his excuse ? we dunno what happened at Godhra - but the hypocritical b@st@rd "knows" everything there is to know about RSS/Guj-riots and everything else - no need for exact proof here. Sorry if it looks like i am rambling - this article makes me want to puke.. furious.gif:
Posted by: Viren Aug 20 2004, 03:19 PM
Rajesh_G: (I)
QUOTE
My god !! How sick is this guy ?
About this guy, M V Kamath, says:
QUOTE
one bows down to the futility of arguing with people with a one-track mind
http://www.hvk.org/articles/1297/0067.html Of all the M V Kamath articles I've read, I must say he's rarely had such words for another fellow scribe. Note the selective amnesia by this guy. He jumps from the 2 trunks in 1940s straight to Feb 28th 2002. No mention of about 1400 who died in 900 riots during 80s when the Chiman, Solanki and Amarsingh ruled Gujarat. No mention of another 1000 who died in '69 when Hitendra Desai ruled. No mention of about 300 who died in Jan '93. BTW, the first riots in Gujarat were in 1713 AD (per book Riots & Wrongs (India First Foundation, New Delhi, 2004) written by R N P Singh, an ex-officer of India's Intelligence Bureau who was honoured with the President's Police Medal and Indian Police Medal) - that is 212 years before the RSS was formed - from Lavakare's like on this page. (II) He is right about this:
QUOTE
Far from being a spontaneous mass reaction to the attack on the Sabarmati Express at Godhra the day before in which 58 Hindu passengers died, the killings across most of Gujarat seemed scripted
because
QUOTE
The charge has also been made that the president of the Godhra Municipal Council, Mohammad Husain Abdul Rahim Kotla had allegedly siphoned off Rs. 25 lakhs of municipal funds and issued cheques in the names of some councillors, including Congress members, a day before the massacre, that the cheques had been deposited in the bank the same day but the money could not be withdrawn. According to Raval, "the police suspect that the Councillors may have wanted to reward those involved in the carnage..." The story, in other words, is getting more and more mysterious.
Source: http://www.fisiusa.org/fisi_News_items/Godhra/godhra087.htm (III) Read Vardarajan saying about ABV:
QUOTE
When a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake
Maybe the dolt was a little "confused" coz this was uttered by Rajiv after 84
QUOTE
Rajiv had to explain his stand on the massacre and the inquiry demand on more than one occasion. Except that he kept taking varying and often conflicting positions. First, he provided a rationale to the massacre which made the inquiry demand sound rather misplaced. It was that famous comparison he made of the massacre with the impact of a big tree falling on the earth
http://www.carnage84.com/intro/intro.htm Will stop for now. The whole article has more holes than the proverbial swiss cheese.
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 20 2004, 07:30 PM
This is a parody of our law and order machinery.. Now Bilkis Bano accused feel they cant get justice in Maharashtra and why not ? What about the accused people's apprehension ? I say lets have the trial in switzerland - the professionally neutral country. What a goof-up by SC.. mad.gif http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/aug/20godhra.htm
QUOTE
Wives of Bilkis case accused cry foul play August 20, 2004 14:43 IST Claiming that their husbands were innocent, wives of 12 accused in the Bilkis Bano gangrape-cum-massacre case on Friday sent a memorandum to President A P J Abdul Kalam requesting a fresh judicial inquiry into the incident. The women, who said they had no faith in the Central Bureau of Investigation, reached Gujarat's Dahod district headquarters after walking 55km from Randhikpur and presented the memorandum to Collector R R Solanki. The Supreme Court had on August 12 transferred the trial in this case to Maharashtra on Bilkis' apprehension that witnesses would be harmed in Gujarat. "A handful of elements are instigating Bilkis to lodge complaints and even the CBI has actively connived with such elements in arresting our husbands, who are totally innocent and never ever indulged in offences mentioned in charge sheet," the women said. "We are thoroughly dissatisfied with CBI probe into the so-called incident, as all arrests have been made by relying on Bilkis Bano, who frequently changed her statements," they said. The women also said that they were in no position to hire a lawyer to fight the case and requested the President that their husbands be lodged in custody in Gujarat itself instead of Maharashtra.
Posted by: Kaushal Aug 20 2004, 09:08 PM
Sid Varada is the high priest of secularism in TOI. For him Hindus can do no right. His brother Tunku Varada... who writes for WSJ is far better
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 23 2004, 12:41 PM
This is unprecedented. Hopefully they will reopen ALL such cases from all states over last so many years. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/824600.cms
QUOTE
NEW DELHI: In an unprecedented order, the Supreme Court on Monday entrusted the Advocate General of Gujarat the task of reviewing the decision of the State Law Department not to file appeals in over 200 riot cases where the accused have been acquitted by the trial court. It is a practice in all the States that the public prosecutor, in a criminal case, gives a report to the Law Department about the acquittal in a case suggesting whether or not to file appeals in the higher court. Resorting to this unprecedented measure, a Bench comprising Justice Ruma Pal, Justice S B Sinha and Justice S H Kapadia said the AG will scrutinise all the orders of acquittal given by the trial courts and suggest whether or not appeal should be filed in these cases. Going a step further, the Bench said, in future, all cases pertaining to acquittal in riots cases, the AG's view would be taken by the Law Department before deciding whether or not appeal should be preferred by the State. The Court gave him four months time to go through the files and then file a report before it stating the progress in the matter. Last week, the Court had formed a 10-member committee of top police officials in the State to consider whether or not it was required to reopen the cases earlier closed by the investigating officer.
Posted by: Viren Aug 23 2004, 01:58 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Aug 23 2004, 03:41 PM)
Hopefully they will reopen ALL such cases from all states over last so many years.
Why all states, just if they look at Gujarat for past 3 decades it would be a good start.
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 24 2004, 02:31 PM
You decide whether this is cute or funny or .. whatever .. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/825199.cms?headline=Godhra~accused~wants~bail~for~sex
QUOTE
AHMEDABAD: Lawyers come up with all kinds of arguments while petitioning courts for their clients' bail. But the application filed by Firozkhan Zafarkhan, an accused in the Godhra train carnage, counts high in originality — he wants to be released on bail so he can go home and fulfil his carnal desires. The plea may sound strange but there is nothing immoral here — all the accused wants to do is to go home to his wife and enjoy conjugal bliss. In his two-page application dated August 18, Firozkhan has sought a 30-day bail. Sources say Firozkhan had earlier made an oral representation before the court. "However, on the instructions of the honourable court, I am giving a written application regarding the same," says the application. The application is slated for hearing shortly. According to jail sources, the plea was to be heard on Monday but did not come up for hearing. The Godhra case is one of several Gujarat riot cases where the trial has been stayed by the Supreme Court. Firozkhan, who has been in jail for the past 30 months along with 95 other accused in the Godhra train carnage case, claims both he and his wife are undergoing mental trauma because their physical needs have not been satisfied for a long period. "Our religion prohibits sex outside marriage," he states in his plea. He adds in his plea that establishing physical relationships with people other than one's spouse is also forbidden in Indian culture. Hailing Indian tradition, where "women remain loyal to their parents as well as husbands", Firozkhan, in his application, expresses gratitude towards women and calls them 'Devi'. Firozkhan was allegedly in the mob at Singal Falia which burnt the S-6 compartment of the Sabarmati Express on February 27, 2002 and has since been booked under Pota. "Please grant me temporary bail for a period of 30 days or whatever you think right on humanitarian grounds," he says. The accused has also requested the court to ensure that all expenses regarding this issue be taken care of. "My financial condition is very bad and hence I have not engaged any personal lawyer," he states in the plea. "I am sorry if inadvertently I have violated any law," he writes, stating that although "law is above all emotions", he would request the court to consider his case only on "humanitarian grounds".
Posted by: acharya Aug 24 2004, 04:11 PM
National Communal violence: Need for robust law on genocide By Siddharth Varadarajan NEW DELHI, AUG. 24. The Common Minimum Programme of the Manmohan Singh Government promises the enactment of a "comprehensive law on communal violence" but a group of eminent jurists, retired police officials and human rights activists is leaving nothing to chance. Concerned about the legal vacuum which allows mass killings like Gujarat to take place, the group on Tuesday released a draft model law — The Prevention of Genocide and Crimes against Humanity Act 2004 — which, if enacted in its current form, will fix criminal responsibility on Ministers and officials for incidents of mass violence against a group of citizens in which they fail to exercise control. Command responsibility One of the pathbreaking aspects of the draft is that it tries to enshrine for the first time in domestic law the principles of vicarious criminal and administrative liability as well as the doctrine of command responsibility — both settled concepts in international humanitarian law. If India had enacted such legislation — as it was supposed to do soon after it became party to the Genocide Convention in 1959 — it is possible that the Gujarat Chief Minister would have thought twice about allowing the "Newton's Law" to operate freely in his State following the Godhra incident. Or that Inspector K.K. Maisurwala would have insisted on sending an SOS wireless message to the police control room when a murderous crowd started attacking the Muslim residents of Naroda-Patiya. For in all such cases, the failure to "take all necessary and reasonable measures within his or her power to prevent or repress the commission of genocide or crimes against humanity" would have rendered the individuals concerned liable for prosecution. Among those who helped draft the proposed law are Justices Hosbet Suresh and P.B. Sawant and activists Teesta Setalvad and Iqbal Ansari. Ms. Setalvad says the aim is to circulate the draft as widely as possible and to invite comments so that the Centre can move quickly on the legislative front. Definition of genocide The draft's definition of genocide is the same as that of the 1948 Genocide Convention, with for one difference: it adds the attempt to subject a group to "sustained economic or social boycott" to existing elements of the crime such as killing members of a group or causing them bodily or mental harm. Thus, the attempts by the Sangh Parivar in Gujarat to enforce an economic boycott of Muslims in the State would be covered by the definition. Crimes against humanity include murder, forcible eviction or enforced migration — such as what the Kashmiri Pandits have been subjected to — torture and the enforced disappearance of persons. The draft envisages the establishment of a National Authority for the prevention of genocide, consisting of the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition, the chairperson of the National Human Rights Commission and two serving DGPs. Acting on the basis of information from official or civilian sources, or even suo motu, the authority would have the responsibility of setting up a special court in consultation with the local High Court and tasking the CBI with the criminal investigation. The court, in turn, will appoint a special prosecutor. Despite the CMP's promise on a comprehensive law against mass violence, no responsible Minister or senior UPA leader has sought to elaborate on what exactly the Centre has in mind. Legally, however, India is under an obligation to pass a robust domestic law on genocide which provides for not only effective penalties but also the establishment of trials by a "competent tribunal." Prof. V.S. Mani, who has argued the need for such a law in the past, says that such a law would be fully in keeping with the spirit of Articles 51 and 253 of the Constitution, which mandate Parliament to make laws for implementing any treaty, agreement or convention signed by the country.
Posted by: Viren Aug 24 2004, 08:33 PM
Does it get any funnier:
QUOTE
Firozkhan was allegedly in the mob at Singal Falia which burnt the S-6 compartment of the Sabarmati Express on February 27, 2002 and has since been booked under Pota. "Please grant me temporary bail for a period of 30 days or whatever you think right on humanitarian grounds," he says.
He's part of a mob that torched 60s innocents which included several women and kids. And he's singing the humanitarian chants for conjugal visits ROTFL.gif Have they shut down Abu-Gharib yet? whistle.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 24 2004, 08:41 PM
Quick, PIL should be filed in SC to see if a new commission in a new state be setup with cases transferred to investigate a "pogrom"... Lets see what the trio comes up with.. http://indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=53788
QUOTE
1984 L-G blames Rajiv Govt for delay in Army deployment SIKH MASSACRE: At 11 am, I asked for Army...P C Alexander put it off until evening: P G Gavai MANOJ MITTA NEW DELHI, AUGUST 24: Twenty years after he was forced to resign as Lt Governor of Delhi owning ‘‘moral responsibility’’ for the 1984 Sikh carnage, P G Gavai has blamed the Rajiv Gandhi government for the delay in calling in the Army. Not just this. In his affidavit filed to the Nanavati Commission last week, Gavai claims he underlined this same point in 1986 to the Ranganath Misra commission but it gave the Rajiv Government a clean chit and suppressed Gavai’s damning testimony. Ironically, the Misra report did go on to admit that ‘‘at least 2,000 people’’ would not have been killed had the Army been called in the morning of November 1, the day after Indira Gandhi’s assassination. This is exactly what Gavai had asked for, he now says in his affidavit, at a meeting held on November 1 at 11 am by when the killings had already begun. That meeting, chaired by P C Alexander, then Principal Secretary to the Prime Minister, was attended, among others, by then Home Minister P V Narasimha Rao and Army chief Gen A S Vaidya. Gavai, who is based in Mumbai now, claims to have ‘‘stressed’’ the need to call the Army ‘‘at once, without waiting even for a moment.’’ Since ‘‘every one present at the meeting’’ agreed with his suggestion, Gavai expected immediate action. ‘‘Nonetheless, Dr Alexander ruled that the police commissioner and the Army authorities should meet in the police commissioner’s office at 5 pm,’’ Gavai’s affidavit says. Gavai also claimed he had mentioned this meeting to the Justice Ranganath Misra Commission in the course of an in-camera sitting in the judge’s chambers. Yet, to Gavai’s ‘‘horror,’’ the details he provided like ‘‘the important meeting with Dr Alexander, etc just do not find even a vague mention’’ in the Misra Commission’s report. The Army eventually entered two of the six police districts of Delhi in the evening of November 1 and the remaining districts in another 24 hours. It was effectively deployed throughout the Capital only in the morning of November 3 and the situation was brought under control by the same afternoon. H S Phoolka, senior counsel for the Carnage Justice Committee (CJC) representing victims, says that in the next sitting of the Nanavati Commission on Thursday, he will request that Alexander be summoned to explain why he had not allowed Gavai to call the Army when the violence had just begun. Incidentally, Alexander is now an ‘‘independent’’ Rajya Sabha MP elected two years ago with the support of the BJP and Shiv Sena. Gavai’s claim to have asked Alexander for permission to call the Army right in the morning of November 1 is contrary to the Misra Commission’s finding that the Rajiv Gandhi Government had ‘‘already given clearance for the Army being called and the delay in taking the decision and making the requisition was of the Delhi Administration—squarely of the Lt Governor and Commissioner of Police.’’
Posted by: David Aug 26 2004, 11:14 AM
QUOTE (Viren @ Aug 24 2004, 02:28 AM)
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Aug 23 2004, 03:41 PM)
Hopefully they will reopen ALL such cases from all states over last so many years.
Why all states, just if they look at Gujarat for past 3 decades it would be a good start.
In the past 3 decades?? Modi covered all that in just 3 months. biggrin.gif
Posted by: Viren Aug 26 2004, 04:28 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 26 2004, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE (Viren @ Aug 24 2004, 02:28 AM)
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Aug 23 2004, 03:41 PM)
Hopefully they will reopen ALL such cases from all states over last so many years.
Why all states, just if they look at Gujarat for past 3 decades it would be a good start.
In the past 3 decades?? Modi covered all that in just 3 months. biggrin.gif
And Rajiv did it in 3 days - without being a offical mayor or MLA or MP or cheif minister or PM or President. That too in nation's capital! Go figure. What do think are the number of people who died during the 50 years of cong rule of Gujarat? No big deal if anyone wants to string up Modi or whoever responsible after investigations are conducted in every state of the union till a 'desired' verdict is reached. But would it be too much to ask for investigations in all past cases pertaining to riots?
Posted by: David Aug 28 2004, 05:44 AM
QUOTE (Viren @ Aug 21 2004, 03:49 AM)
QUOTE
When a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake
Maybe the dolt was a little "confused" coz this was uttered by Rajiv after 84
It dosen't matter wether he uttered it after '84 or before.The point is that both the people (Rajiv and Modi) gave justifications for genocides and that was not good.
Posted by: Krishna Aug 28 2004, 08:59 AM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 28 2004, 07:44 AM)
QUOTE (Viren @ Aug 21 2004, 03:49 AM)
QUOTE
When a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake
Maybe the dolt was a little "confused" coz this was uttered by Rajiv after 84
It dosen't matter wether he uttered it after '84 or before.The point is that both the people (Rajiv and Modi) gave justifications for genocides and that was not good.
Dude, How do you define genocide ? (please xplain!) Modi did NOT wake up one morning and said lets go kill some muslims. The retaliation that happened post-Godhra, no one in this world would have been able to stop that. So please share what you mean by all this genocide stuff?
Posted by: Sattva Aug 28 2004, 11:44 AM
David I wonder what your opinion of Mohammed is. He definitely gave a justification for genocide. I look forward to hearing from you.
Posted by: David Aug 28 2004, 08:06 PM
QUOTE (Krishna @ Aug 28 2004, 09:29 PM)
Modi did NOT wake up one morning and said lets go kill some muslims. The retaliation that happened post-Godhra, no one in this world would have been able to stop that. So please share what you mean by all this genocide stuff?
Retalliation?? Are you nuts?? In retaliation women and little girls are not gangraped in front of their family members and then cut to pieces.Kids are not thrown into fire.In retaliation, people don't slash foetuses. Consider this- a 15 year-old girl is chased by a mob,she is caught then raped and then inflammable material is poured on her private parts and then burned. Why all this happened? What was the government doing then?Considering the gravity of the situation, why was't the army called?Of course Godhra was a real shameful incident, but killing and raping innocent people just because the culprits were from their community can't be justified. And hey, why there was no "retalliation" after the attack on Akhshardham temple. Modi said "Main haath jod kar, vinti karta hoon etc. etc. etc." Why didn't he say this after the Godhra incident?
Posted by: Krishna Aug 28 2004, 08:45 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 28 2004, 10:06 PM)
QUOTE (Krishna @ Aug 28 2004, 09:29 PM)
Modi did NOT wake up one morning and said lets go kill some muslims. The retaliation that happened post-Godhra, no one in this world would have been able to stop that. So please share what you mean by all this genocide stuff?
Retalliation?? Are you nuts?? In retaliation women and little girls are not gangraped in front of their family members and then cut to pieces.Kids are not thrown into fire.In retaliation, people don't slash foetuses. Consider this- a 15 year-old girl is chased by a mob,she is caught then raped and then inflammable material is poured on her private parts and then burned. Why all this happened? What was the government doing then?Considering the gravity of the situation, why was't the army called?Of course Godhra was a real shameful incident, but killing and raping innocent people just because the culprits were from their community can't be justified. And hey, why there was no "retalliation" after the attack on Akhshardham temple. Modi said "Main haath jod kar, vinti karta hoon etc. etc. etc." Why didn't he say this after the Godhra incident?
David, you still didn't tell me what this genocide stuff is all about? I wanna know what you consider genocide, and what not? I can give you several incidents from the Godhra-train-burning scene.........but I'm not looking for sympathy here........
QUOTE
And hey, why there was no "retalliation" after the attack on Akhshardham temple. Modi said "Main haath jod kar, vinti karta hoon etc. etc. etc." Why didn't he say this after the Godhra incident?
So now instead of being grateful you are complaining why "retaliation" happened in retaliation for Akhshardham temple. Can you please tell me what is that you really want??
Posted by: David Aug 28 2004, 09:07 PM
QUOTE (Krishna @ Aug 29 2004, 09:15 AM)
I wanna know what you consider genocide, and what not?
"Genocide"?..Lemme say that it is a mass murder of a group of people or a race supported by a particular authority or a leader.
QUOTE
So now instead of being grateful you are complaining why "retaliation" happened in retaliation for Akhshardham temple.
Ok, I m grateful that Modi maintained law and order after the attack on Akshardham temple.But why didn't he did so after the Godhra incident?
Posted by: Krishna Aug 28 2004, 09:15 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 28 2004, 11:07 PM)
QUOTE (Krishna @ Aug 29 2004, 09:15 AM)
I wanna know what you consider genocide, and what not?
"Genocide"?..Lemme say that it is a mass murder of a group of people or a race supported by a particular authority or a leader.
Would the mass murder of those Hindus onboard Sabarmati Express at Godhra be considered a genocide? or you have a different word when mass murdering is done by a minority (ISLAMIC) community??
QUOTE
QUOTE
So now instead of being grateful you are complaining why "retaliation" happened in retaliation for Akhshardham temple.
Ok, I m grateful that Modi maintained law and order after the attack on Akshardham temple.But why didn't he did so after the Godhra incident?
He did the best he could, to prevent the killings. Had he really wanted to do a genocide the death toll would have been in hundreds of thousands. If you would remember.......the total number of deaths suring the post-Godhra events were around 800, out of which about 200 were Hindus, SHOT by the POLICE under MODI's orders.
Posted by: Sattva Aug 28 2004, 09:26 PM
QUOTE
"Genocide"?..Lemme say that it is a mass murder of a group of people or a race supported by a particular authority or a leader.
Oh David thank you for that, because that defines EXACTLY what Mohammed did, and defines exactly the principles within the Koran.
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 28 2004, 09:27 PM
QUOTE
Retalliation?? Are you nuts??
Since you seem to be an expert at this why dont you tell us what happens in retaliation ? Kyaa karein abhee sikh rahein hain - 1000 years of company has teached us this - keep teaching and we will get it right the next time around..
QUOTE
Of course Godhra was a real shameful incident, but killing and raping innocent people just because the culprits were from their community can't be justified.
What a concept !! We are learning , please teach us, O Wise One ! So when some Caliphate in some distant land collapses the faithful do what ? And when some dork utters something on the other side of the globe the faithful do what ? And when some chaiwalla has a tiff with some guy the faithful do what ? So what else did the maulvi tell you this friday ?? Very fiery speech, eh ?!
Posted by: David Aug 28 2004, 09:31 PM
Absolutely wrong!!! The total no. of deaths was about 2,000.Most of them were Muslims.
Posted by: Gargi Aug 28 2004, 09:38 PM
QUOTE
Absolutely wrong!!! The total no. of deaths was about 2,000.Most of them were Muslims.
It seems you are quoting John Dayal Jan 2003 quote. In Gujarat 45% dead were Hindus according to KPS Gill. One should never forget it was triggered by muslims. David, it is alweays better to read or quote correct information. FYI, read complete thread from begining you will find correct information. People in this form are well informed, will not fell into Goebbel type of propoganda which you are trying.
Posted by: Krishna Aug 28 2004, 09:40 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 28 2004, 11:31 PM)
Absolutely wrong!!! The total no. of deaths was about 2,000.Most of them were Muslims.
Ok David, here you go: (Read every line of the quoted part before you think about your reply) http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jun/22arvind.htm
QUOTE
While our media was helped by A B Vajpayee in Manali to raise the Gujarat ghost of 2002, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh resurrected another, but forgotten, ghost: the anti-Sikh riots of 1984. When he visited a gurdwara in Delhi the other day, he prayed that the two events would never happen again. All of us pray for the same, wishing to let the past be. But our English-language press is not content with that; pouncing on Vajpayee suddenly pointing a finger of guilt at Modi, the press is eager to rub the Gujarat salt into the BJP's lesion of Election 2004. Has the Congress atoned for the Sikh carnage of 1984 by installing a Sikh as prime minister? Or has it atoned by making Jagdish Tytler, the same man who was among several Congressmen suspected of having had a hand in that carnage, a minister of state? The 20th anniversary of that event is occasion enough to juxtapose the two ghosts. Since readers in India and abroad have, for over two years, been flooded with all kinds of detail about it from a large spectrum of writers, Gujarat 2002 is best left summarised as below. Gujarat 2002 riots Provocation: On the morning of February 27, at Godhra station, 58 Hindu passengers returning from a pilgrimage to Lord Ram's Ayodhya were scorched alive by a Muslim mob. Retaliation: While nothing much happened on February 27 itself, a mass vendetta commenced on February 28. For two days thereafter, Hindu groups indulged in arson and loot, raping and killing. Counter-retaliation: Francois Gautier, a Delhi-based French journalist, wrote that subsequently there were 157 riots and that all of them were started by Muslim groups (India Today, June 24, 2002). Victims: In the three months following the Godhra massacre, the official figure is 800 dead, of which a quarter were Hindus. Another estimate is 1,050 dead, of which Hindus were 250. Of the 98,000 persons sent to refugee camps, 10,000 were Hindus. Government action: A five-man fact-finding committee of The Council for International Affairs and Human Rights headed by D S Tewatia, a former chief justice of the Calcutta and Punjab and Haryana high courts, reported that:– * By the afternoon of February 28, it was clear that the communal violence had spread widely and the situation had become so alarming that it was unlikely to be controlled by the police and paramilitary forces. Hence, at 4.30 pm that day, the chief minister announced at a press conference that the state government had decided to call the army to assist the civil administration. And by that evening the Union government had given instructions for the deployment of two brigades in Gujarat. * The Union defence minister flew to Ahmedabad at midnight and had a meeting with the chief minister to discuss deployment of the army. Troops needed to be withdrawn from the country's border with Pakistan, where they were deployed in full strength in an eyeball-to-eyeball situation. * Within 24 hours, one brigade of the Indian Army had landed in Ahmedabad. In a meeting at 8 am in which the chief minister, defence minister, army generals, and civil officers participated, the formal plan for deployment of the army was approved. Magistrates needed to accompany the army were appointed and by 11 am on March 1 the actual deployment of the army at sensitive points had begun. * The second brigade was deputed to Rajkot and Vadodara on the night of March 1. * Columns allotted to Godhra reached there on the morning of March 2. * The army went back to the barracks on March 10. What did the Gujarat police do? In the first 48 hours of the violence, they arrested 3,900 persons, of whom two-thirds were Hindus (Sanjoy Banerjee, 'Indian Politics in this Age', Indian Currents, June 2002). By April 5, 9,500 persons had been arrested, of whom two-thirds were Hindus. 'The Gujarat police did try to restore law and order.' (Prem Shankar Jha, 'Gujarat: A Sober Diary', Outlook, April 22, 2002.) National Minorities Commission Chairman John Joseph noted, 'As on April 6, 126 persons were killed in police firing, of whom 77 were Hindus.' (Kay Benedict, 'Bad PR charge on Atal, Modi', The Telegraph, April 21, 2002.) L K Advani, ex-home minister, publicly stated that the police fired 3,900 rounds of ammunition. The National Human Rights Commission and the Minorities Commission 'accepted the Gujarat government's contention that it did foresee trouble and took precautionary steps to check it, but was caught by surprise and overwhelmed by the mob fury erupting on February 28.' The billion-dollar question: So was Gujarat 2002 'state-sponsored' genocide against Muslims? Was it at all genocide or a pogrom against Muslims? Or was it a case of any number of sandbags not enough to stem the Brahmaputra floods?
Now I want to see some proof from you. Times of islamabad or any of those commie sites would not cut it with me.
Posted by: Sattva Aug 28 2004, 09:44 PM
Krishna David is a miniature Asura. Don't expect him to use hard evidence. The motto of Asuras - most evident in Hitler and in Mohammed - is to lie and lie and lie. In Islam there is even the doctrine of taqiyah that calls for Muslims to use dissimulation (To disguise (one's intentions, for example) under a feigned appearance.) whenever they are in a weaker position.
Posted by: David Aug 29 2004, 10:11 AM
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20030328003703900.htm&date=fl2006/&prd=fline& The police handling of the riots cases in Gujarat points to a blatant attempt to shield the guilty while harassing the victims. SHE still has to hide behind closed doors. There is no place where she feels safe. The people who attacked her are free. But Sharifa (name changed) is on the run. Village leaders, who allegedly raped her and killed 14 of her family members, remain unpunished. Sharifa testified against them in her statement to the police. Now, she is afraid they will harm her before the trial. While they were escaping the attack on Muslims in her village of Randhikpur in Dahod district, a group of village leaders allegedly ambushed Sharifa and her family. They murdered 14 people, including three children. "I managed to survive even though I was six months pregnant at that time. They murdered my three-year-old daughter," she says. There was no harm to Sharifa's unborn child. Sharifa gave birth to a girl three months later, while she was still in the Godhra relief camp. While some refugees from Randhikpur go to the village for work, they cannot return to their homes. They live in the nearby Devgad Baria village. "It is too dangerous for us to go back there. I shall stay here so that I can testify against them," says Sharifa. "I named more than 10 people in my police statement. But not one of them has been arrested. They are all big people in the village - doctors, lawyers and panchayat members. ohmy.gif Some belong to the Vishwa Hindu Parishad." But the statistics only begin to tell the story. Even cases with sufficient proof are being closed. Names have disappeared from charge-sheets. Many witnesses complain that the police have not recorded their testimonies. While recording statements of witnesses, the police have left out names or vital facts. Witnesses who testified against powerful politicians have been put in jail, while the real criminals roam about free. Twelve residents of Naroda Gaam in Ahmedabad testified to the role of Bharatiya Janata Party legislator Dr. Maya Kodnani and VHP president Dr. Jaideep Patel in the worst massacre in Gujarat. Six months later, in September, the police jailed these 12 witnesses as accused in a case of murder, which occurred in March 2002. When the case was filed, the names of the deceased or the accused were not known. Suddenly, six months later, the 12 witnesses were jailed for this murder. They still have not been able to get bail.
Posted by: Krishna Aug 29 2004, 10:20 AM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 29 2004, 12:11 PM)
http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20030328003703900.htm&date=fl2006/&prd=fline& The police handling of the riots cases in Gujarat points to a blatant attempt to shield the guilty while harassing the victims. SHE still has to hide behind closed doors. There is no place where she feels safe. The people who attacked her are free. But Sharifa (name changed) is on the run. Village leaders, who allegedly raped her and killed 14 of her family members, remain unpunished. Sharifa testified against them in her statement to the police. Now, she is afraid they will harm her before the trial. While they were escaping the attack on Muslims in her village of Randhikpur in Dahod district, a group of village leaders allegedly ambushed Sharifa and her family. They murdered 14 people, including three children. "I managed to survive even though I was six months pregnant at that time. They murdered my three-year-old daughter," she says. There was no harm to Sharifa's unborn child. Sharifa gave birth to a girl three months later, while she was still in the Godhra relief camp. While some refugees from Randhikpur go to the village for work, they cannot return to their homes. They live in the nearby Devgad Baria village. "It is too dangerous for us to go back there. I shall stay here so that I can testify against them," says Sharifa. "I named more than 10 people in my police statement. But not one of them has been arrested. They are all big people in the village - doctors, lawyers and panchayat members. ohmy.gif Some belong to the Vishwa Hindu Parishad." But the statistics only begin to tell the story. Even cases with sufficient proof are being closed. Names have disappeared from charge-sheets. Many witnesses complain that the police have not recorded their testimonies. While recording statements of witnesses, the police have left out names or vital facts. Witnesses who testified against powerful politicians have been put in jail, while the real criminals roam about free. Twelve residents of Naroda Gaam in Ahmedabad testified to the role of Bharatiya Janata Party legislator Dr. Maya Kodnani and VHP president Dr. Jaideep Patel in the worst massacre in Gujarat. Six months later, in September, the police jailed these 12 witnesses as accused in a case of murder, which occurred in March 2002. When the case was filed, the names of the deceased or the accused were not known. Suddenly, six months later, the 12 witnesses were jailed for this murder. They still have not been able to get bail.
David, You said this:
QUOTE
Absolutely wrong!!! The total no. of deaths was about 2,000.Most of them were Muslims.
And I asked you for proof. Posts like the last post of yours only shows a form of malicious intent onlee. I still wanna see where you get that 2000 number from. BTW: Have ya bothered to look for what happened to those 60+ Hindus at Godhra........or that's "expendable" in your books?
Posted by: Viren Aug 29 2004, 01:34 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 28 2004, 08:44 AM)
QUOTE (Viren @ Aug 21 2004, 03:49 AM)
QUOTE
When a big tree falls, the earth is bound to shake
Maybe the dolt was a little "confused" coz this was uttered by Rajiv after 84
It dosen't matter wether he uttered it after '84 or before.The point is that both the people (Rajiv and Modi) gave justifications for genocides and that was not good.
David, Well all know what is 'good' and what is 'bad' - that's not the issue. My post clearly address the issue of a 'reputed' scribe from TOI taking words from on PM and conveniently planting them into another with regards to the 'tree falling on ground shaking earth' comment. Help me complete this list. I'd need some names of CMs and PMs of India during these riots. And their "justification" for the genocide. List since '61
  • Jabalpur '61 ??????????????? killed
  • January to March 1964 - 264 killed in Calcutta and 346 in Bihar and Orissa
  • August 1967 - 200 were killed in Ranchi
  • November 1969 - 1000 killed in Gujarat
  • ???? 1970 Bhiwandi-Jalgaon 250 killed
  • April 1979 - 117 killed in Bihar
  • August 1980 - 119 killed in Moradabad
  • ???? 1981 - Biharsharif, Bihar ?? killed
  • September 1982 - 100 killed in Meerut
  • ?? 1982, 1026 killed in Meenakshipuram
  • ??? 1983 - Neille ??? killed
  • May 1984 - 230 killed in Maharashtra
  • October 1984 - 1277 killed in Delhi and other places (some places have this number as high as 4000)
  • ????? 1984 Bhiwandi ???
  • ??? 1985 to 198? Gujarat (276 people died in 117 incidents of mob violence. Under Amar Singh Chaudhuri, 582 persons died in 413 incidents of violence. And under Chimanbhai Patel, who was chief minister twice, 563 persons died in 370 incidents of violence)
  • May 1987 - 100 killed in Delhi and UP
  • 1989 - 1026 killed in Bhagalpur
  • October 1990 - 87 killed in Bijnore
  • December, 1990 - 200 killed in Hyderabad
  • December 100 - killed in Aligarh
  • December 1992 - 200 killed in Bombay, 300 killed in Surat
  • January, 1993 - 215 killed in Gujarat, 557 killed in Bombay, 98 killed in Manipur
Anything between '93 and '04 other than Godhra in '02?
Posted by: Viren Aug 29 2004, 01:41 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 29 2004, 12:07 AM)
QUOTE (Krishna @ Aug 29 2004, 09:15 AM)
I wanna know what you consider genocide, and what not?
"Genocide"?..Lemme say that it is a mass murder of a group of people or a race supported by a particular authority or a leader.
If you had just read the first post in the previous page, you'd have found the defination of genocide defined by UN Convention. Suggest you read the article, reposting it since you seem to have missed it... http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/jul/28arvind.htm
QUOTE
The latest UNDP report's remark that India's reputation as a model constitutional protector of the country's remarkable cultural diversity has begun to fray because of the 2002 'genocide' in Gujarat is outrageous ignorance and insolence of the report's authors. According to the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, 'genocide' refers to 'acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.' Note that little word 'a' in that definition. When Nazi Germany extinguished six million of a single group called Jews, that was genocide. When, in 1984, Congress party goons extinguished over 3,000 of a single group called Sikhs, that too was genocide. In 1989-1990, when some Muslims in the Kashmir valley slaughtered some 10,000 Kashmiri Pandits, killed or raped their women in front of their eyes, and ultimately expelled some 350,000 Pandits from their homes, that was genocide of a religious group. In Gujarat 2002, however, of the total deaths (as per the home ministry's official annual report for 2002-2003, page 6), about a third were Hindus (including 59 charred in a train compartment) and 200 in all were killed in police firing. If, at one stage, 100,000 Muslims were struggling in relief camps, so were 40,000 Hindus. Thus, Gujarat 2002 was not genocide of one ethnic community as the UNDP report alleges. Secondly, the authors of that report want us to believe that but for Gujarat 2002, the constitutional secularism of Indian democracy has by and large fulfilled its promise of all communities living in a paradise of religious pluralism. That's a falsehood. The truth is documented in the book Riots & Wrongs (India First Foundation, New Delhi, 2004) written by R N P Singh, an ex-officer of India's Intelligence Bureau who was honoured with the President's Police Medal and Indian Police Medal. Statistics cited by Singh show that communal violence in India occurred in each and every year from 1954 to 1985. The total number of communal incidents in those 31 years was 8,449 (an annual average of 273), the total number of persons killed in that period was 7,229 (an annual average of 233), and the number of persons injured in those incidents was 47,321 (an annual average of 1,526). After 1985, communal riots have also occurred in every year from 1986 to 1995, and in 1997, 2002 (besides Gujarat), and 2003. Today's 'secular' journalists in denims and Lalu-like politicians in khadi are the fundamentalist secularists who believe that communal riots in India are caused by the RSS-VHP-BJP trinity. And pinko historians salivate in tracing Hindu-Muslim riots to British colonial scheming. But history again tells a different tale. In their 564-page narrative on India's long road to independence, Anthony Read and Davis Fischer write, 'The British may have utilized the division between Hindus and Muslims, but they certainly did not invent it: there had been communal friction since at least the time of Aurangzeb' who ruled India from 1658 till his death in 1707. (The Proudest Day, PIMLICO, 1998, page 7. However, the first reported Hindu-Muslim riot took place in 1713 AD -- 212 years before the RSS was formed, 251 years before the VHP was founded, and 289 years before the Gujarat riots broke out after 59 Hindus were burnt to death in a train. Indeed, before the RSS was born in 1925, Singh's book records the occurrence of some 150 Hindu-Muslim riots and, unbelievably, of four riots between Muslims and... Parsis! If Golwalkar and his so-called Hindu fanatics were not yet on the scene, why had those pre-1925 riots happened? A glimpse of the truth can be had from those four Muslim-Parsi riots traced to Bombay by Singh's book. In 1850, a Parsi journalist published a photograph of Mohammad Paigambar in his newspaper. Muslims started assaulting all Parsis. In 1851, a magazine edited by a Parsi youth gave an account of the Prince of Arabia and an undiscovered villain posted a lithograph portrait of the Prophet on the entrance of a mosque. That was enough for Muslims to belabour Parsis. In 1857, Muslims killed a Parsi high priest and a notorious Parsi character for his supposed insult to Islam and for receiving from the British what was deemed as only a mild punishment. The 1874 riots too originated because of a Parsi's translation of an American writer's article on the Prophet. (BTW, does all that tell us why India's modern-day journalists do not touch Islam with a barbed pen?) It was thus abundantly clear more than 150 years ago, if not more, that their religion, Islam, was the be-all and end-all of Muslims in India. Even Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi failed to alter that mindset. It was but a matter of time before Pakistan was carved out from British India with accompanying rivers of human blood and oceans of human tears. Not satisfied, the new Islamic country invaded the Kashmir valley to secure its possession on religious grounds. Came the Constitution of India on January 26, 1950, founded on noble secular principles although its architect, Dr B R Ambedkar, was convinced about his thesis that Muslims cannot co-exist with non-Muslims (Thoughts on Pakistan, Thacker & Co, Bombay, 1946). This thesis has been subsequently endorsed by several Muslims themselves. Thus, in The Telegraph, Calcutta, of April 29, 1986, Tara Ali Baig wrote that the problem with the Muslims is that they 'insist on living lives by a fixed set of laws laid down for them in an Arab country long ago, which even today they consider inflexible, unalterable doctrine. This is the real root of the separate existence of Muslims in India. They do not know where to turn except to Mecca and the home of their religion.' Muslim intellectuals in India like eminent jurist M C Chagla, ex-politician and scholar Dr Rafiq Zakaria, and senior journalist M J Akbar have shared this view. The conflict of interest between Muslims and non-Muslims and, what's more, between intra-Muslim sects themselves, has been substantiated outside India. The research findings of Jonathan Fox (published in his book Islam And The West) on the Cold War and post-Cold War activities of Islamic groups support Samuel Huntington's thesis that 'Islam is one of the greatest participants in civilizational conflicts'. As observed in the Journal of Peace Research (vol 38, no 4, 2001, Sage Publications, London), the Islamic civilization is conflicting with all other religions and not just the West. By ignoring the fallout of the inherently inimical nature of Islam, the UNDP report errs further by believing that all over the world people can have multiple and complementary identities without creating a conflict between the assertion of ethnicity and the honouring of citizenship obligations. Citing the factual situations in Lebanon, Cyprus, Israel, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, Algeria, Egypt, Iran, Afghanistan, India, Russia and China, R N P Singh concludes, 'Muslims, whether in minority or majority, are always in conflict with others on one cause or the other. They never agree to join the mainstream with the non-Muslim majority and always demand separate land, separate law, separate educational institutions, and separate concessions. Their usual approach is to launch jehad or holy war against non-Muslims.' This reality is slowly but surely dawning on the advanced Western world where Muslim immigrants are swelling by the day. Unlike India's ostrich-like media, leading newspapers abroad are beginning to look sharply at Islam's tenets. Take Britain, where Muslim immigrants are now in the third generation stage. According to a recent poll in that country, 13 percent of British Muslims 'approved of a renewed terrorist assault, on the scale of the 9/11 outrage, on targets in America and Britain'. (India Link International magazine, London, June-July 2004 issue). In that same publication are the views of Sarfraz Manzoor, the deputy commissioning editor at Channel 4, and of Lord Nazir Ahmed. Manzoor condemned 'the alienated and angry young Muslims who, though born here, do not accept Britain as their homeland.' Lord Nazir was critical of the imams in England who deliver fiery sermons and bemoaned, 'Young Muslims who come under the influence and spell of such narrow-minded imams are filled with nothing but animosity and absurd notions about Britain and the British people.' In the Netherlands, a recent survey of 813 Dutch adults by TNS NIPO pollsters for De Volkskrant newspaper found that 36 percent of the Dutch feel threatened by Muslims in the Netherlands and only 15 percent regard their culture positively. In Italy, writer Stefania A, an Italian ex-Muslim woman, recently condemned the social, political, and religious attitude of Muslim immigrants to Italy, bemoaned their unwillingness to do anything to integrate themselves with Italians, and told them to leave if they were not satisfied with what Italy offered them. There is also France where the head scarf for Muslim schoolgirls caused such a furore among the Muslim community and forced the government to be determined to ban its wearing. Taking Europe as a whole, the increasing assertiveness of Muslims has resulted in some intellectuals predicting the continent's name being changed in the near future to 'Eurabia.' Finally, the USA. More and more mainstream journalists are uncovering facts that will wean away the naïve belief that Islam is a religion of peace. The latest is from Nicholas D Kristoff. Writing in The New York Times, he made the telling assessment, 'We have quite properly linked the fundamentalist religious tracts of Islam with the intolerance they nurture.' (Reproduced in The Asian Age, Mumbai, July 20, 2004.) It's a tragedy of our times then that the UNDP report's authors chose to wear blinkers when it gushed about cultural diversity being compatible with integrated citizenship without taking the Islamic world into account. By the way, how much does producing a UNDP report cost? What purpose does it, and other such UN reports, serve? Might it not be better for the world body to spend that money, howsoever small or big, on offering succour to the victims of such genocides as were perpetrated on the Sikhs in 1984 and the Kashmiri Pandits in 1989-1990?
Posted by: David Aug 30 2004, 10:08 AM
QUOTE
Have ya bothered to look for what happened to those 60+ Hindus at Godhra........or that's "expendable" in your books?
Oh yeah..I saw on "Aaj Tak" and other news channels how the relatives of victims of the Godhra carnage were denied compensation while Modi played politics of hate. 'Funds for Godhra victims were eaten by BJP and VHP' http://news.indiainfo.com/2003/10/05/05godhra.html Kin of Godhra victims feel neglected http://www.thehindu.com/2002/12/02/stories/2002120207581100.htm AHMEDABAD, Dec. 1. The Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, and the BJP are keen on making Godhra the party's main plank in the December 12 Assembly elections but no one seems to be bothered about the family members of the victims of the ghastly train carnage. Mr. Modi had been accusing the Congress of playing a "partisan role". But he himself, nor his Home Minister, Gordhan Jhadafiya, who lived in the same area, have ever visited the family members of the 11 train carnage victims in the labour-dominated Ramol locality on the outskirts of the city. They are feeling hurt at being used as the trump card for the elections by the ruling party and many are for "boycotting'' the elections. Even the "Panchal sisters", who were orphaned in the train carnage in which their parents and two other elder sisters were roasted alive, are a confused lot. They are not a willing partner to campaign for the BJP but do not know how to say `no' if asked to by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. They are divided in opinion whether to campaign for any party, but at least in one respect the family members of all the victims are united, "Godhra should not have been made an election issue''. Neither Mr. Modi nor Mr. Jhadafiya or any of the BJP leaders have ever come to Ramol,'' said the 82-year-old retired government doctor, Girish Raval, who lost his wife, Sudhaben, in the train carnage. His only son, 42-year-old Ashwin, was killed in the riots in April within a few meters from his house, because he was a local VHP leader. Nodding in unison with him was 50-year-old Bhairondan Barot, whose eldest of the three sons, 28-year-old Pratap Barot, was also killed along with Ashwin on April 17. Pratap was an activist connected with the Bajrang Dal. They have reasons to be angry at the BJP Government because it did nothing for the protection of their sons. The residents of some 800 tenements of Janata Nagar in Ramol, which stood just opposite the Muslim colony of Jashnagar separated by a narrow lane, were feeling insecure since the Godhra train carnage. "We had moved hell and heaven asking for police security to our sons, because we knew that being VHP and Bajranj Dal activists they will be soft targets. But no protection was given to them, and even our request to start a police chowk in the vicinity was turned down,'' Dr. Raval said. The VHP had promised to fight the court cases on behalf of the victims, but for the last six months "the files of our sons are pending in the VHP office; it has not even put up the case in the court''. The promised compensation for the victims was also partly paid by the Government but Rs. 50,000 each the VHP had promised had never been paid. In view of the tension in the locality, the VHP promised to supply ration for six months, "but we got only once", Dr. Raval said. The "Panchal sisters'', however, are comparatively luckier than most others. Because of their helpless condition, the VHP has helped them with an additional Rs. 1.5 lakhs to buy a house away from Janata Nagar. Komal has secured a job in a school in place of her deceased mother and they have to survive on that meagre income. It is the VHP which has ruined the atmosphere in Ramol,'' rued Prakash Shah, whose son Rukesh was also in the same train compartment but survived miraculously. "The area never experienced any communal tension in the past but the VHP's intensified Hindutva activities in the last couple of years have heightened communal passion.''
Posted by: Viren Aug 30 2004, 10:26 AM
QUOTE
Oh yeah..I saw on "Aaj Tak" and other news channels how the relatives of victims of the Godhra carnage were denied compensation while Modi played politics of hate.
And who's denying compensation and justice for those 1000+ who died in Gujarat '69 and another 1000+ who died in 80s? Any ideas ruled Gujarat then? Is it that Aaj-Tak channel didn't exist then and you didn't see it then, this never happened in the past?
Posted by: David Aug 30 2004, 10:35 AM
It's not only about 'denying' compensation, its also about playing dirty politics by standing on their funeral pyres.
Posted by: Viren Aug 30 2004, 10:37 AM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 30 2004, 01:35 PM)
It's not only about 'denying' compensation, its also about playing dirty politics by standing on their funeral pyres.
Who stood on the funeral pyres? - sorry missed that.
Posted by: Mudy Aug 30 2004, 11:10 AM
What happened in 1984 riots in Delhi? Now ring leaders are ministers and representing NRI and other misintry. Forget about compensation, they are still intimidating victims.
Posted by: Mudy Aug 30 2004, 01:45 PM
Muslim League in Kerala deleted Gujarat word from National anthem in schoolbook BJP blasts Muslim League P K SURENDRAN TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ FRIDAY, AUGUST 27, 2004 02:57:54 PM ] THIRUVANANTHAPURAM: The Bharatiya Yuva Morcha has announced agitational course against the state education ministry's "conspiracy' tampering with National Anthem and Pledge in school textbooks Former Union Minister O Rajagopal and BJP state President P S Sreedharan Pillai said it was a matter of shock and shame that some "communal elements" had even tampered the lofty National Anthem. From the Anthem, the word "Gujarat" is deleted in the 9th standard English book. The books printed till two years ago have, however, kept the lines in tact. Similarly, a couple of words have been dropped from the Pledge. "These are not the matters of words but how arrogant the Muslim League had grown over years", pointed out Yuva Morcha leaders. The League handles education portfolio. Meanwhile, a petition in the magistrate court of Adoor has been admitted challenging the tampering of the text book.
Posted by: Krishna Aug 30 2004, 01:59 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 30 2004, 12:08 PM)
QUOTE
Have ya bothered to look for what happened to those 60+ Hindus at Godhra........or that's "expendable" in your books?
Oh yeah..I saw on "Aaj Tak" and other news channels how the relatives of victims of the Godhra carnage were denied compensation while Modi played politics of hate. 'Funds for Godhra victims were eaten by BJP and VHP' http://news.indiainfo.com/2003/10/05/05godhra.html Kin of Godhra victims feel neglected http://www.thehindu.com/2002/12/02/stories/2002120207581100.htm AHMEDABAD, Dec. 1. The Gujarat Chief Minister, Narendra Modi, and the BJP are keen on making Godhra the party's main plank in the December 12 Assembly elections but no one seems to be bothered about the family members of the victims of the ghastly train carnage. Mr. Modi had been accusing the Congress of playing a "partisan role". But he himself, nor his Home Minister, Gordhan Jhadafiya, who lived in the same area, have ever visited the family members of the 11 train carnage victims in the labour-dominated Ramol locality on the outskirts of the city. They are feeling hurt at being used as the trump card for the elections by the ruling party and many are for "boycotting'' the elections. Even the "Panchal sisters", who were orphaned in the train carnage in which their parents and two other elder sisters were roasted alive, are a confused lot. They are not a willing partner to campaign for the BJP but do not know how to say `no' if asked to by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad. They are divided in opinion whether to campaign for any party, but at least in one respect the family members of all the victims are united, "Godhra should not have been made an election issue''. Neither Mr. Modi nor Mr. Jhadafiya or any of the BJP leaders have ever come to Ramol,'' said the 82-year-old retired government doctor, Girish Raval, who lost his wife, Sudhaben, in the train carnage. His only son, 42-year-old Ashwin, was killed in the riots in April within a few meters from his house, because he was a local VHP leader. Nodding in unison with him was 50-year-old Bhairondan Barot, whose eldest of the three sons, 28-year-old Pratap Barot, was also killed along with Ashwin on April 17. Pratap was an activist connected with the Bajrang Dal. They have reasons to be angry at the BJP Government because it did nothing for the protection of their sons. The residents of some 800 tenements of Janata Nagar in Ramol, which stood just opposite the Muslim colony of Jashnagar separated by a narrow lane, were feeling insecure since the Godhra train carnage. "We had moved hell and heaven asking for police security to our sons, because we knew that being VHP and Bajranj Dal activists they will be soft targets. But no protection was given to them, and even our request to start a police chowk in the vicinity was turned down,'' Dr. Raval said. The VHP had promised to fight the court cases on behalf of the victims, but for the last six months "the files of our sons are pending in the VHP office; it has not even put up the case in the court''. The promised compensation for the victims was also partly paid by the Government but Rs. 50,000 each the VHP had promised had never been paid. In view of the tension in the locality, the VHP promised to supply ration for six months, "but we got only once", Dr. Raval said. The "Panchal sisters'', however, are comparatively luckier than most others. Because of their helpless condition, the VHP has helped them with an additional Rs. 1.5 lakhs to buy a house away from Janata Nagar. Komal has secured a job in a school in place of her deceased mother and they have to survive on that meagre income. It is the VHP which has ruined the atmosphere in Ramol,'' rued Prakash Shah, whose son Rukesh was also in the same train compartment but survived miraculously. "The area never experienced any communal tension in the past but the VHP's intensified Hindutva activities in the last couple of years have heightened communal passion.''
David, Where's the proof for that 2000 number??
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 3 2004, 06:09 PM
I know this is not about Guj riots but look at the sick comments coming out of these idiots.... http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=2&u=/nm/20040903/wl_nm/russia_school_world_dc
QUOTE
Some analysts questioned Russian security forces' tactics in storming the school, though Moscow has said the move was forced on them when hostage-takers opened fire on fleeing children. "I suspect that Putin's immediate concern will have been to be seen to be strong rather than be seen to be negotiating," said Alex Standish, editor of Jane's Intelligence Digest. "And if that means sacrificing civilians caught up in the middle, I don't suspect that is the key issue as far as Putin is concerned," he said. In a statement in the name of the presidency of the 25-nation EU, Dutch Foreign Minister Bernard Bot said all countries should work together to prevent such tragedies. "But we also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened," he added.
How much time before some intellectual comes out with some stupid comments about how Putin did all this.. dry.gif
Posted by: Krishna Sep 3 2004, 06:27 PM
Arey Bhaiyya, why you even blaming Putin.........this Moscow thing was all done by Modi!! biggrin.gif laugh.gif Give peace a chance, destroy DDMism, Commism & Pseudo-Secularism!
Posted by: David Sep 4 2004, 09:38 AM
QUOTE
Where's the proof for that 2000 number??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3419695.stm Nearly 1,000 people, mainly Muslims, were killed in clashes that followed according to the Gujarat state government's figures. Other estimates put the toll at 2,000.
QUOTE
Who stood on the funeral pyres? - sorry missed that.
simple, Modi made a fool out the the victims of Sabarmati express carnage by asking votes in their names without even taking care of their conditions.
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 4 2004, 09:49 AM
> Other estimates put the toll at 2,000. Who are this other ?
Posted by: David Sep 4 2004, 10:05 AM
Arrey bhai, "unnoficial" ones.
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 4 2004, 10:08 AM
> Arrey bhai, "unnoficial" ones. You mean Islamist ?
Posted by: David Sep 4 2004, 10:32 AM
Lol..."unnoficial" means which the Gujrat cops passed off as "missing".
Posted by: muddur Sep 4 2004, 11:16 AM
These Indian DDM's and the Muslim vote bank creaters should all read what this Paki wrote here... Does any INDIAN politician has the guts to say these plain facts publicly ? Is any Muslim leader politician in the subcontinent ready to accept these acts of barbarism by the Muslim rulers as cowardly and admit it as a mistake on any public forum ? When you talk about Gujarat, look back and see what has happened. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-8-2004_pg3_4 I appreciate this guy, Irfan Husain's, guts. He has said things which even Indian media or politicians fail to admit publicly. He has laid out some facts in plain and simple words.
QUOTE
The reason I mention this period of history is to try and understand the bitterness that must exist in many Hindu minds over the Muslim conquest of their country. In his Story of Civilisation, Will Durant writes: “The Mohammedan conquest of India is probably the bloodiest in history”. While historical events should be judged in the context of their times, it cannot be denied that even in that bloody period of history, no mercy was shown to the Hindus unfortunate enouh to be in the path of either the Arab conquerors of Sindh and south Punjab, or the Central Asians who swept in from Afghanistan. The Muslim heroes who figure larger than life in our history books committed some dreadful crimes. Mahmud of Ghazni, Qutb-ud-Din Aibak, Balban, Mohammed bin Qasim, and Sultan Mohammad Tughlak, all have blood-stained hands that the passage of years has not cleansed. Indeed, the presence of Muslim historians on their various campaigns has ensured that the memory of their deeds will live long after they were buried. Seen through Hindu eyes, the Muslim invasion of their homeland was an unmitigated disaster. Their temples were razed, their idols smashed, their women raped, their men killed or taken slaves. When Mahmud of Ghazni entered Somnath on one of his annual raids, he slaughtered all 50,000 inhabitants. Aibak killed and enslaved hundreds of thousands. The list of horrors is long and painful. These conquerors justified their deeds by claiming it was their religious duty to smite non-believers. Cloaking themselves in the banner of Islam, they claimed they were fighting for their faith when, in reality, they were indulging in straightforward slaughter and pillage. When these warriors settled in India, they ruled as absolute despots over a cowed Hindu populace. For generations, their descendants took their martial superiority over their subjects for granted. When the British exposed the decadence of the Moghuls and seized power, the Muslims — especially the aristocracy — tried to cut deals with the new rulers to ensure that they would be treated differently from the Hindus.
QUOTE
It has been argued by some historians that Pakistan was really created to ensure that the Muslim ruling class would not be subject to Hindu rule in an undivided India. But having created Pakistan, the ruling elites promptly started lording it over the Bengalis of East Pakistan. What, after all, is the point of being descendants of Tughlak, Aibak and Mahmud if there is no under-class to persecute and exploit?
QUOTE
This, then, is the Hindu perspective of the Muslim invasion of their country. After centuries of first Muslim and then British rule, they are finally in charge of their destiny. For the first time in modern history, Indians feel that they can play a role on the world stage in keeping with their numbers and the size of their country. Pakistan, especially its establishment and military, is smarting from successive military defeats and the steady diminishing of its international image. Due to their long domination of much of India, the Muslim elite in Pakistan feels it has some kind of divine right to be treated on a par with India. BASIS for EQUAL-EQUAL treatment laugh.gif With this psychological and historical baggage, both sides are unable to engage constructively with each other. Many Hindus feel they have centuries of humiliation to avenge. And a substantial number of Pakistani Muslims are secretly convinced that they are inherently superior to the Hindus.
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 4 2004, 11:16 AM
David > Lol..."unnoficial" means which the Gujrat cops passed off as "missing". Wish I had your sense of humour .. Fire starter The PIoneer Edit Desk The UPA regime's first 100 days were marked by conflict from day one. Its next lap threatens to be as unhealthily tumultuous. While the Veer Savarkar and Uma Bharati controversies are still raging and the Sangh Parivar has taken on the HRD Minister legally, the UPA-in its newfound role as ruling arsonist-has started another conflagration. It has flagged off the Lalu Prasad Yadav-sponsored Godhra probe, clearing the setting up of a high-level committee headed by a retired Supreme Court judge. This is to ascertain the "precise cause" of the Sabarmati Express fire in which 59 persons perished in February 2002. The new panel is dubbed a "committee"-a too clever by half bid to skirt the dodgy legality of a second 'inquiry' while the Nanavati-Shah Commission is already investigating the case. Jugglery with words is no answer for why probe work would need to be duplicated, save to give free rein to vendetta that would inevitably colour the 'truth' about Godhra. Legal experts suggest parallel investigations on law and order-a State subject-are not ordered unless the Centre wants to wreck federal ties so as to target a particular regime. Nor is there any guarantee the new panel's 'terms of reference' will not clash with those of the Nanavati Commission, whose scope was enlarged by the Gujarat Government to include examination of the conduct of the State authorities, Chief Minister downwards. Endorsement of a fresh probe is also a crafty way to sling mud at the Nanavati Commission-in the event of contradictory findings, one may safely assume only that 'truth' which burns the BJP will prevail. The 'behaviour' of passengers in the "overcrowded" coach will apparently be looked into. This gives the game away. The 'secular' brigade has always been loath to view the killing of kar sevaks as a terrorist act, a conclusion that does not go down too well with a specific votebank. The nation could very well expect Godhra's victims to be blamed for their own, horrific end. There can no longer be grounds for giving the UPA the benefit of the doubt: Power in its hands seems to have no other purpose than to activate witchhunts; governance is only a sideshow. The nation did not need the NDA to cry foul to realise this ugly truth about those running riot at the helm. Their methods, involving the third degree against challengers, are disgraceful. Their privileging of pogroms and headhunting over governance is a national shame. The Congress seems driven by desperation, pandering to every whim of its regressive political crutches. Its economic prescriptions require the Left's certification. Its championship of "secularism" is now being scripted by the tainted overlord of terminally sick Bihar, ensconced in New Delhi as Union Minister. The party's Uma Bharati U-turn had him shoot his angry mouth off; the Godhra probe is obviously a palliative. The Congress itself is seen as a Machiavellian proponent of the use of power to crush opposition. Courtesy its stop-at-nothing tactics, Gujarat's wounds-which have undergone healing-stand to be reopened. But propaganda against the supposedly "communal" BJP does not change a truth that is gaining retrospective force in the public mind. The NDA's governance plank, its developmental vision, its respect for federalism, its consensual style and its promotion of social harmony-all of this will evoke, as days go by, greater nostalgia. Its bloody-minded successor regime is itself ensuring this. The UPA is leaving no stone unturned to polarise society by fuelling Hindu-Muslim discord. It may well be in for a shock when voters decide, with the benefit of hindsight, who is secular and who communal.
Posted by: muddur Sep 4 2004, 11:20 AM
QUOTE (David @ Sep 4 2004, 11:02 PM)
Lol..."unnoficial" means which the Gujrat cops passed off as "missing".
Pure speculations, Can't be the facts, but still can fool ignorant voters.
Posted by: Krishna Sep 4 2004, 01:24 PM
QUOTE (David @ Sep 4 2004, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE
Where's the proof for that 2000 number??
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3419695.stm Nearly 1,000 people, mainly Muslims, were killed in clashes that followed according to the Gujarat state government's figures. Other estimates put the toll at 2,000.
QUOTE
Who stood on the funeral pyres? - sorry missed that.
simple, Modi made a fool out the the victims of Sabarmati express carnage by asking votes in their names without even taking care of their conditions.
Dude, you want me to believe what some crap-filled-biased media like BBC says. N' WTF does "other sources" mean? In simple lingo it's kind pulling stuff outta your behind while gettng high. Even if the number 2000 has any merit how does it becomes a genocide?? Even from the 2000 number a large number were Hindus. So how does that go?? N' have ya ever contemplated that none of the riots would have happened hadn't a MUSLIM MOB torched a train filled with Hindus in the first place??
Posted by: muddur Sep 4 2004, 11:18 PM
Hey David dude .... I am sure you are one of those converted psychopant follower of the Italian leader... If you think that Indians should have a little something called "SELF DIGNITY and RESPECT" then, DIGEST this article .... http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13559824 Column: Beslan is our wake-up call By Swapan Dasgupta Sunday, 05 September , 2004, 09:01 Beslan is thousands of miles away from the nearest Indian outpost. Yet, the grim tragedy that engulfed this nondescript Russian town on Friday afternoon has left not a single TV-viewer in any part of the world unaffected. The images of half-naked, scared and disoriented children, many covered in blood, running helter-skelter or clutching their distraught rescuers have shaken every one of us. It is scarcely possible to believe that even the most hardened terrorist can be so heartless as to deny hundreds of children food and drinking water for 53 hours. It boggles the imagination to realise that the masked gunmen can actually spray bullets into clusters of fleeing children, many of whom had come to school for the first time. Also View: Hostage drama in Russia Indeed, it would take some doing to let the realisation creep in that what many of us watched on TV wasn't a late-night Hollywood film but live coverage of the barbarians in action. Beslan was a wake-up call. It was a harsh reminder of a common menace that threatens every democracy, however flawed that democracy is. It was a chilling testimony to the fact that for the brotherhood of ideologically-motivated and theologically-inspired terrorists there is no 'lakshman rekha'. The symbols of the state were always a likely target. In a war of asymmetry, civilians became the next soft targets. And now, at the dawn of the 21st century, the boundaries have been extended to children. The new millennium, we were once assured, would signal the end of history. It would herald the ultimate human triumph. What we witnessed at Beslan wasn't the end of history; it seemed like a page from the beginning of history. It is so easy to succumb to denial. It is so easy to pretend that Beslan was a peculiarly Russian horror show. If only the Russian troops weren't so ham-handed, if only President Putin had demonstrated some flexibility in his Chechnya policy-the dhobi list of counter-factual wisdom trotted out by the pundits is endless. In deluding ourselves that Beslan isn't our problem, we Indians take the biscuit. For the perverted custodians of sectarian vote-banks, nothing is ever our problem. We go ga-ga with relief that three of our own taken hostage in Iraq have returned home unharmed. We don't even begin asking uncomfortable questions about the money that changed hands, the Muslim card our secular republic played and the disturbing precedent we have set for our diaspora. We even gloss over the cold-blooded murder of 12 Nepali labourers around the time our citizens were being offered four religious books by their captors as a farewell present. As we talk the modalities of a soft-border with a state that organised and facilitated the Mumbai blasts of 1993, the ethnic cleansing of the Kashmir Valley, the Kargil War and the attack on Parliament, we have convinced ourselves that it can't happen here. Maybe it won't happen here. Even the most motivated of the mujahedeen need a worthwhile enemy. Israel, like Russia, gives it back as hard as it gets. And messing with the US has a glorious ideological attraction, calculated to secure many scores of virgins for the suicide-bomber in after-life. But India? An entire state gets into a frenzy of murderous retribution on seeing charred bodies lined up on the platform of the Godhra railway station. Two years later, the Government of India appoints an inquiry calculated to prove it was all a grisly act of self-immolation. The arsonists are now busy counting the days of their safe passage to secular respectability. The police shoot a potential women suicide-bomber in Ahmedabad in a pre-emptive strike, the terrorists proclaim her a martyr on their website, but the guardians of cosmopolitan respectability proclaim her a victim of religious prejudice. We have chosen to be wilfully craven. Will it take a Beslan to make India realise it isn't a case of hanuz Dilli dur ast?
Posted by: Krishna Sep 4 2004, 11:28 PM
The world knows this, n' hell we know it damn well what needs to be done........but we're closing our eyes, pretending none of this crap is happening. We may live in peace, and die in peace too.........but we would leave behind HELL as legacy for our children. PS. Looking at the pictures of these innocent kids.............it hurts deep inside.
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 5 2004, 02:01 AM
> The world knows this, n' hell we know it damn well what needs to be done........but we're closing our eyes, pretending none of this crap is happening. Why .. because of ppl who propogate idiotic notions as below..... Frankly we are studying all this because we are curious- thats all. But I like to see a deeper reason and I will say it out loud. One "weakness" of India has been its extreme "civilization" - or maybe that is the wrong word. The weakness is extreme civility and tolerance to almost anything based on the philosophy that there is a mix of good and bad in everything and that everything balances out. I believe this thought process runs deep among Indians on the ground. The consequence of such a thought process is the ability to see and point out intolerance and bigotry among Hindus when evidence of Islamic bigotry is shown. As a general rule, you cannot collect a group of non-muslim Indians and lecture to them saying "Mohammad was a killer, his followers are butchers" and expect them to believe you. They will ask "How are you any different, for showing so much hatred?" Indians CAN be converted by reason, and clear evidence that does not fly in the face of what they see around them. The hindu whose neighbour is a muslim coexist in a society where the muslim fixes the hindu's scooter and buys groceries from the hindu's shop. Getting the hindu to believe that the muslim is trying to reproduce and dominate the world after destroying his temple is not easy - even if you say that you are very well educated and a newkiller physicist to boot. Indians, muslim or non muslim will convince themselves of what is right and what is wrong if you are fair. There are Indian muslims who openly flout the most rigid dictates of their faith, but remain muslim. I believe it would be wrong to alienate them. I know it is a tough call, but I believe that it is well worth being what we are - studious and fair and figuring out what tilts the balance between the plain "signs of islam" and the intolerance of Islamism. That is what I think we are up to here.
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 5 2004, 02:05 AM
The thoughts are of renowned *thinker* Shiv .. in the meanwhile .. [3_dots_right3.gif] Sep 4 2004 : parsuram comments on Godhra panel may find the going tough (Statesman) Full text of the report published in Pioneer of Sept.5, 2004: Godhra panel may find the going tough Sanjay Singh / New Delhi Justice UC Banerjee may find it hard to accept the terms of reference of the high-powered committee on Godhra train, particularly if he takes a look at the investigations carried so far by the police and Gujarat Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL). According to the investigations, most of the accused are in judicial custody and are facing trial. It would perhaps make the task of the "in-house" committee of railways headed by the retired Supreme Court judge even more difficult. The FSL report and police investigations have found that the fire was ignited from "inside" and traces of hydrocarbons were found from the burnt coach (S-6) of Sabaramati Express, when samples were first lifted on the day it took place. The FSL team visited the scene on the very same day on February 27, 2002. They filed two reports on March 21, which said hydrocarbons were found in 27 samples and petrol in two samples. The experts visted the site again on May 1, 2002. Its observations said that the large number of hit marks on the coach from outside suggested heavy stone-pelting. Three doors of S-6 were open and one door towards the front facing signal falia side was closed. Intensity and proportion of the burning object inside the coach was high and frames of windows suggested that they were closed at the time of fire. The report is particularly important as a controversy has erupted over the source of fire. The investigative agencies maintain that in most of the accidental fire by various causes in railway which have been burnt to ashes, it has never been found that the fire has spread so fast, causing a large number of deaths. The material used for making coaches conform to the requirements of UIC code 564-2 and IS specifications for flammability and fire retardant properties. The report said on February 26, two meetings took place at Aman Guest House and Singal Falia, where Haji Bilal and Farukh Bhana informed members of their group of specific instructions of Maulvi Hussain Umerji for setting afire some bogies of the train, which was returning from Ayodhya. They procured 140 litres of petrol and kept it at the guest house. When the train started leaving the platform, they pulled the chain from various compartments. As it halted, there was commotion at the platform and after a while, a heavy stone-pelting started. In the resultant confusion, the criminals transported the consignment of petrol. Some criminals forced entry into S-6 by way of cuttingopen the vestibule cover. From there, the petrol cans were emptied. The bogie was subsequently set on fire by throwing burning rags inside the compartment through broken windows by criminals who remained outside end.
Posted by: David Sep 5 2004, 07:01 AM
QUOTE (muddur @ Sep 4 2004, 11:46 PM)
These Indian DDM's and the Muslim vote bank creaters should all read what this Paki wrote here... Does any INDIAN politician has the guts to say these plain facts publicly ? Is any Muslim leader politician in the subcontinent ready to accept these acts of barbarism by the Muslim rulers as cowardly and admit it as a mistake on any public forum ? When you talk about Gujarat, look back and see what has happened. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-8-2004_pg3_4
Ayen...well.What Gaznis and co. did was horrible.But hey, that's what happens when a ruler from one kingdom conquers another kingdom.Religion doesn't matter here.Everybody did it.It happens even now.
Posted by: Viren Sep 5 2004, 09:21 AM
QUOTE (David @ Sep 4 2004, 01:32 PM)
Lol..."unnoficial" means which the Gujrat cops passed off as "missing".
Nice try - trying to sneak it in as "official". Now is it "official" or "unoffical" that Gujarat cops "passed off as missing" comment. Just checking since everyone who second guessed Gujarat cops on Ishrat case has come back to eat their words.
QUOTE
simple, Modi made a fool out the the victims of Sabarmati express carnage by asking votes in their names without even taking care of their conditions.
You mean like how Bush did it for past 4 days at the GOP convention or say how Congress has been doing it for past 50 years?
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 5 2004, 10:07 AM
> Ayen...well.What Gaznis and co. did was horrible.But hey, that's what happens when a ruler from one kingdom conquers another kingdom.Religion doesn't matter here.Everybody did it.It happens even now. So you are okay if it happens again.. Great show man.. Viren > You mean like how Bush did it for past 4 days at the GOP convention or say how Congress has been doing it for past 50 years? The guys too dense to understand ... anyway good to counter him ..
Posted by: muddur Sep 5 2004, 03:16 PM
QUOTE (David @ Sep 5 2004, 07:31 PM)
QUOTE (muddur @ Sep 4 2004, 11:46 PM)
These Indian DDM's and the Muslim vote bank creaters should all read what this Paki wrote here... Does any INDIAN politician has the guts to say these plain facts publicly ? Is any Muslim leader politician in the subcontinent ready to accept these acts of barbarism by the Muslim rulers as cowardly and admit it as a mistake on any public forum ? When you talk about Gujarat, look back and see what has happened. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-8-2004_pg3_4
Ayen...well.What Gaznis and co. did was horrible.But hey, that's what happens when a ruler from one kingdom conquers another kingdom.Religion doesn't matter here.Everybody did it.It happens even now.
This post shows how naive your thoughts are !!! Infact what you are suggesting is that, it is OK to invade and slaughter innocent people. Which menas you support TERROR on innnocents as long as it is an invasion of some sort. Then you go on to say that 'religion doesn't matter!' That's the dumbest thing I have ever heard! Also to rub more salt to your knowledge, (I am assuming that you still don't suck your thumb), answer this... What happenbed in 1971 ? Do you know the history well ? India was the winner of war, but we didn't slaughter any innocents or destroy any place of worship, either in the west Pakistan or in the so called Bangla Desh. Now that you have shown your class, I have nothing much to say ...
Posted by: Krishna Sep 5 2004, 03:50 PM
David, please take a look at the Member's Intro thread in the General forum. Maybe you should write a few lines about yourself......about who you are, where you from n' stuff of that sort. You know who we're, it's only fair that we're on the same page.......
Posted by: Viren Sep 5 2004, 09:21 PM
http://www.cybernoon.com/DisplayArticle.asp?section=fromthepress&subsection=editorials&xfile=September2004_mediawatch_standard72&child=mediawatch M.V. Kamath | Friday, September 03, 2004 11:46:47 IST
QUOTE
Thackeray may be an angry old man but sometimes even he can speak the truth. Our English media is an insult to decent Indians Bal Thackeray is no icon for the English language media; for that matter, even some Marathi newspapers, too, spew venom at him. That is their privilege. So it is little wonder that Thackeray has gone on the offensive. In an editorial in Saamna which is the organ of the Shiv Sena, Thackeray questioned the editorial independence of all English papers and said that "even those who were fair and independent so far have now turned into pimps." To add insult to injury, Thackeray added: "Look at how the editors have lost their independence. When asked to kiss Sonia Gandhi's feet, they choose instead to lick her chappals..." Reporting this, Hindustan Times' (August 17) said: "the intemperate language Thackeray has used is stronger than anything he has put out before..." The quarrel between the Shiv Sena chief and the English media is their business but one often wonders at the utter ignorance or deliberate hatefulness of the English media when matters regarding the BJP, its leaders and its allies are concerned. Collective failure As many as 2,733 Sikhs were murdered in cold blood in Delhi and environs by Congress goons in 1984 following Indira Gandhi's assassination. Some believe the figure is on the higher side, but let that go. May one ask the Courts how many of the murderers have been tried and sentenced? May one ask the Courts to demand that there be a fresh trial of all those involved in the murder and mayhem that turned Delhi's streets red with blood? How many English language newspapers, pray, have asked for justice to the Sikhs? But consider what the English media writes when the Supreme Court orders the re-opening of half the 4,252 cases in the post-Godhra riots which, according to the Supreme Court, is indicative of the "collective failure" of the entire government machinery. What a noble thought? The Rajiv Gandhi government can sit tight for 72 hours before calling in the Army but that is not considered wrong. After all "a big tree" has fallen, hasn't it? The earth under must "shake" - shouldn't it? The editorials in the English media indicate how hate-filled it is when it comes to the BJP and more specifically Narendra Modi. According to The Hindu (August 19), "if a final and comprehensive indictment of the Narendra Modi government in Gujarat regarding the complicity in the post-Godhra riots was ever needed, it has come in the form of the Supreme Court's order on Tuesday". Writes The Telegraph: "The Supreme Court's recent order for a review of all 4,200 odd cases, including the 2,000 declared 'closed' is of remarkable significance... The Court's directive that a 10-member Committee of senior policemen, headed by the Director General of the Gujarat Police should review all cases, hardly suggests confidence in the state government", writes Deccan Chronicle (August 20): "The Supreme Court's directive... provides a classic example of judicial intervention by the highest court in the land for dispensing justice and upholding the rule of law". And the paper magnanimously adds: "It is a sobering thought that despite an elected government being in office, it has needed judicial intervention to bring to the victims of an officially engineered and instigated anti-minorities massacre the protection of the rule of law, a constitutional responsibility which the Modi government failed to discharge." May one ask how the 'massacre' of the Sikhs in 1984 was handled by the Rajiv Gandhi government? Were the bodies of the murdered Sikhs taken to Banaras for disposal? What responsibilities did the Rajiv Gandhi government discharge, pray? Wrote The Statesmen: (August 20): "In a string of orders issued by the apex court last month, it has shown that the system works, however slowly... The apex court's criticism of the Gujarat government is severe, the last was the worst when it said: 'This is an abnormal, unprecedented situation. Not because of the rioting as it occurs in many states as well, but because of the state's response to it". But is it fair to ask what was the response of the Delhi State when Sikhs were being murdered wholesale? Now listen to The Times of India (August 20): "The Supreme Court has repeatedly highlighted Ahmedabad' unwillingness or sloppiness in trying to control the riots, or later, in bringing the culprits to book. It is widely-believed that the Narendra Modi government connived with the rioters..." Does The Times of India know that it is "widely believed" that the Rajiv Gandhi government "connived with the rioters" in Delhi in 1984? However, to make some amends the paper adds: "The Congress has flirted with soft communalism through the 1970s and 1980s. The 1984 anti-Sikh riots were to take revenge for Indira Gandhi's assassination". If the paper so believes, then why doesn't it have the courage to ask the Supreme Court to take action against local Delhi authorities? What is it afraid of? The paper condemns the BJP for having Golwalkar's and Savarkar's books as its "philosophical cornerstones". The editor should spend some time reading Vivekananda and Sri Aurobindo, not to speak of Bal Gangadhar Tilak. Then there is Hindustan Times (19 August) which has shown a little more courage. Apart from describing the Supreme Court's order as "a triumph for democracy" the paper goes on to say: "The Supreme Court's harsh indictment of both the state government (of Gujarat) and the police for their inaction in first curbing the violence and then prosecuting the accused, is unprecedented. Damn Modi But, as in the case of Nazis in Europe, there can be no statute of limitation when it comes to murder. There is no reason why, even now, authorities take another look to see why justice has not been done in the Sikh massacres in Delhi in 1984". The powers that be should take another and quicker look at the 1984 riots and the total lack of interest taken in them by those concerned with dispensing law, if they want to be taken seriously. What the present interest in Gujarat shows clearly is a determined effort to damn Modi and the BJP under any circumstances. The viciousness shown in the past few days by cheap politicians like Arjun Singh and Mani Shankar Aiyar indicates a conspiracy that does not present those in power in good light. What the Congress is attempting to do is sickening. To insult Savarkar who has suffered more physically and mentally than any Congress leader at any time is to insult India. That Aiyar was not called to order by Sonia Gandhi merely shows the state of mind of the Congress. That the English media has no sense of history merely underscores what Thackeray in his wrath has said about it. Thackeray may be an angry old man but sometimes even he can speak the truth. Our English media is an insult to decent Indians. One things of the time when editors faced jail and confiscation of their presses rather than condone tyranny and falsehood. But gone are those days.
Posted by: muddur Sep 5 2004, 10:23 PM
Mass murder by Ghori, Malik Kaufer, AuranbZeb etc.... is already forgotten .. It was still OK because they only killed cow worshippers.... Mass murders of Hindu's in Kashmir is accepted as a routine tragedy. No one cries for them. Mass murders of Sikhs in 1984 was just a backlash over killing Indira Gandhi, the savior of Muslim vote bank. It can be forgotten in a wink. Mass murder of Hindu's in Godhra is a mistake of Hindu's !!! No one should even address it as a crime ! But Hello ...! Gujarat !!! Everyone should be on Modi's back !!! Ahhh... I fail to see the logic of these secular Bas$$$t$$AR%^%&$&&S. All in all... Hindu killing, Sikh killings, etc.... is accepted by the secular Congress party and the commies, where as even if you raise the finger at the Muslim crimes, you become a non secular !!! PATHETIC... Justice should done with a blind eye. What amazes me is the failure to even admit their FAULTS.... Both sides might have erred, depending on the circumstances. BUT WHY all the BLAME goes to one community ???? Is there any answer to this ? Accomodating CRIME and CRIMINALS in the name of religion is going to destroy the civilization and the nation as a whole. When will these buggers understand this simple fact ? This weakness is being used by the enemies of India like Pakistan and ISI. Sadly though, majority of Indians are still blind folded by our own MEDIA and manipulative ruling politicians. The congress party in 1947 did not have the guts or courage to stand up to the Muslim league, and even today they are scared of them. They have no PLAN to counter them, except the silly tolerance and submission of self respect and pride. These people don't even deserve to live, but sadly they are ruling INDIA.
Posted by: Mudy Sep 5 2004, 11:27 PM
Cong+Islamist are back in business http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=10+crude+bombs+recovered+in+Ahmedabad%0D&id=59935&headline=10~crude~bombs~recovered~in~Ahmedabad thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif A 20-year-old ragpicker was injured when a crude bomb exploded in Sarangpur area of Ahmedabad this morning, while police recovered 10 more crude bombs stuffed inside small plastic balls from the spot, said officials. "An alert has been sounded to all police stations after recovery was made as this is the first time that crude bombs stuffed into plastic balls have been recovered," a police official said. "It is either an apparent bid by unknown persons to lure children or they dumped the whole bundle fearing police crackdown," the official added. Combing operations on Combing operations would be increased on account of Janmashtami festival being celebrated on Tuesday, sources said
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 6 2004, 06:56 AM
> Janmashtami festival being celebrated on Tuesday May be they shld do whatever they want inside their House. Why unnecesarily provoke non-hindus ? I think Hindus shld give it a thought. Hindus being majority - as aptly said by Dr Shiv Shastri - shld soften up the Islam ..
Posted by: Viren Sep 7 2004, 09:02 AM
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200409071942.htm?headline=Godhra~witness~denies~pressure~from~Lalu
QUOTE
Ahmedabad, Sep 7.(PTI): Admitting that he had a talk with Railway Minister Lalu Prasad over the Godhra train carnage report submitted by the state Forensic Science Laboratory (FSL), Assistant Director M S Dahiya however denied being under any "pressure at all". Talking to PTI, Dahiya admitted that he did get a call from the Minister on June 6 to discuss the report tabled by FSL on May 17, 2002 and added, "apart from that there has been no communication. Also I did not feel pressurised at all". The FSL official said that there was no further communication about his trip to Delhi in this regard. Yadav has ordered a high-powered committee headed by a retired Supreme Court judge to probe the cause of the fire and the train burning incident and has also hinted appointment of a lawyer to be present during the Nanavati Commission hearing. BJP national vice-president S K Modi in Patna today took strong exception to Yadav's talk with Dahiya and demanded that the Nanavati Commission should summon both.
Posted by: Viren Sep 7 2004, 09:15 AM
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEP20040907015927&Page=P&Title=States&Topic=0&AHMEDABAD:~Hindu~boy,~Muslim~girl.~He~saved~her~from~a~murderous~mob~a~day~after~the~Godhra~carnage,~and~they~fell~in~love....
QUOTE
Hindu boy, Muslim girl. He saved her from a murderous mob a day after the Godhra carnage, and they fell in love. Two years and much heartache later, the star-crossed couple’s love story has come full circle.
Posted by: Viren Sep 8 2004, 08:46 AM
http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Tytler+refutes+role+in+%2784+riots&id=60033&headline=Tytler~refutes~role~in~'84~riots
QUOTE
A senior lawyer of the Supreme Court on Tuesday said that Union Minister Jagdish Tytler should be indicted for his role in the 1984 anti-Sikh riots
and http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Cong+leaders+not+indicted%3A+Nanavati&id=60058&headline=Cong~leaders~not~indicted:~Nanavati
QUOTE
Justice GT Nanavati, the head of the inquiry commission into the 1984 anti-Sikh riots has clarified that the commission has not yet indicted or exonerated any Congress leaders. The Congress leaders have only been sent 8B notices on the basis of affidavits and other records available with the Commission. "As the evidence has not been appreciated so far, therefore, the question of indicting anybody at this stage does not arise," Justice Nanavati said. Justice Nanavati's clarification comes a day after he told NDTV that there was evidence against Congress MP from Outer Delhi Sajjan Kumar of his involvement in the 1984 riots. Other Congress leaders who were named include Union Commerce Minister Kamalnath, NRI Minister Jagdish Tytler and senior Congressman Vasant Sathe.
Posted by: Mudy Sep 8 2004, 11:25 AM
According David and other p-sec, one should help this guy mad.gif http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_984939,000900040003.htm?
QUOTE
In his two-page application filed on August 18, Firoz Khan had urged for a 30-day bail claiming that he and his wife were going through severe mental trauma as their sexual needs had not been satisfied since his arrest 30 months back. He had also stated that apart from his religion, which prohibits sex outside marriage, even the Indian culture deems it in a bad taste to establish physical relation with someone other than one's spouse
Posted by: Viren Sep 10 2004, 10:59 AM
QUOTE (Viren @ Jul 19 2004, 12:39 PM)
QUOTE (Mudy @ Jul 18 2004, 07:13 PM)
However there is a twist in the tale, which Mr Lalu Yadav may find unpalatable. The report submitted to the Nanavati Commission and also before the court where the accused are being tried, said that the Godhra incident was part of a conspiracy.
Laloo had already decided on the outcome of within a week of the tragedy. So don't expect any sensational news from this fresh round of inquiry. Scroll down on the link to read: http://www.ndtv.com/template/completetimeline.asp?template1=Gujaratviolence
QUOTE
'Lalu threatening witnesses in Godhra probe' Amarnath Tewary/ Patna The ghost of Godhra and Gujarat riots appears to have shifted its attention towards Lalu's Bihar as the political masters of the state have started haunting each other from here. Barely two days after Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav's barb that the BJP and the RSS have got scared of the Godhra probe by Justice UC Banerjee, national vice-president of BJP Shushil Kumar Modi hit him back on Tuesday alleging that Lalu Prasad "is threatening and trying to influence the Godhra probe". The BJP leader even produced documentary proofs of the allegations made by him. "Railway Minister Lalu Prasad is now threatening the witnesses produced before the Justice Nanavati Shah Commission constituted to probe the Gujarat incidents," charged Modi while making reference of a confidential letter written by a witness Dr MS Dahiya, assistant director of Forensic Science Laboratory [FSL] of Ahemdabad. Ever since Lalu Prasad has become Railway Minister he has been trying to influence the Godhra probe and it has become his only full time occupation, alleged the BJP leader. The FSL assistant director who had made an investigation into the Godhra incident and subsequently prepared two reports over it, has written in a confidential letter that "on June 6, 2004 I had received a phone call at around 10.30 hours from the DG, RPF who asked me to talk to the Union Railway Minister in Patna on telephone numbers 0612-2211324, 2222741. I, however, request him to route all such instructions through my department. At around 11 hours, I received another phone call wherein the caller identified himself as the Union Railway Minister, Lalu Prasad Yadav and he informed me that the copies of two reports of mine in relation to the incident of burning a coach of Sabarmati Express at Godhra were lying before him and that he wanted to discuss the same in details to better understand the same." Dr Dahiya further mentioned in his letter, "he (Lalu) inquired whether I could come over to Delhi for the discussion. I requested him to send a formal requisition to the Government of Gujarat." "Being a Railway Minister in the Government of India, Lalu Prasad can not telephone a state Government officer directly and that too regarding such a sensitive matter like Godhra," Mr Modi wondered. Since, Godhra matter is pending in the state POTA court and Dr Dahiya is one of the main witness and has already deposed before Justice Nanavati Commission, it was "improper and unethical" for the Railway Minister to call him on this matter, said the BJP leader while talking with the media persons. The BJP national vice president also charged that by instituting an another probe panel into the Godhra incident, RJD leader Lalu Prasad has raked up the issue once again to win the Muslim votes in the soon to be held Assembly elections in the state. "Lalu Prasad has been fast losing his grip over his Muslim electorates he once again raised the issue of Godhra to gain political mileage out if it," charged Modi. There was no need of any other probe panel since Nanavati Commission has already entered last leg of the inquiry, said the BJP leader. "Earlier even the Supreme Court had rejected a plea of some people about the irrelevance of the Nanavati commission," Mr Modi added. The BJP leader also said that he would write a letter to the Nanavati commission requesting him to summon Lalu Prasad and Dr MS Dahiya both to get the whole truth and how the Railway Minister tried to influence the probe witnesses. "Lalu has been only citing the selective parts of Forensic Science Laboratory report to suit his points for argument and he never bothered to go through the second part of the report which clearly says that approximately 60 litres of inflammable liquid was poured from the rear side (berth No 72) between the two doors," Mr Modi further added. "The RJD leader did not pass a single statement even after seven days of the Godhra incident in which altogether 59 Kar Sevaks had perished but when the Gujarat incident happened he started making comments on it to placate his slipping Muslim votes," alleged the BJP leader. Mr Modi also said that the BJP would discuss the matter and make the future strategy in its Bangalore meeting scheduled to begin from Wednesday. When asked about to comment on recent Laluspeak on BJP leader Lal Krishna Advani as being an international absconder in the murder conspiracy of Jinnah, Modi said that he could not stoop to such a low level that Lalu has reached.
http://203.200.89.17/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=STATES&file_name=state1%2Etxt&counter_img=1&phy_path_it=F%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Csep904
Posted by: Viren Sep 10 2004, 02:15 PM
QUOTE (David @ Aug 28 2004, 11:06 PM)
In retaliation, people don't slash foetuses.
David: Don't miss the last para... http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200408192011.htm
QUOTE
Putting the lid over another controversial and gruesome incident that emerged during the Naroda-Patiya massacre, Mysorewala, to a question by Sinha if he had heard of a victim called Kausar Banu, whose stomach was allegedly slit open and her foetus dangled on sword point, said he knew of her. "I am aware of her. She was killed by the rioting mob and she was nine months pregnant at the time. The post-mortem report, however, clearly indicates that the foetus was in the womb when she was killed," Mysorewala said and produced a copy of the report before the commission members.
Posted by: Nikhil Sep 10 2004, 07:30 PM
QUOTE
In retaliation, people don't slash foetuses.
What you want than?? To read quran before killing these faggots?? and kill them in "Halal" istyle!?? Listen bud.. whoever you are.. they started it by buring our people.. and i think being burn to death is much more gruesome than being slashed in stomach!! Third Degree Murder vs First Degree murder!! Just cut the crap and feel lucky that your people were not killed as bad as they had killed ours!! furious.gif
Posted by: Viren Sep 14 2004, 08:12 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Sep 8 2004, 02:25 PM)
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_984939,000900040003.htm?
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IEP20040914032857&Page=P&Title=States&Topic=0&AHMEDABAD:~A~special~court~has~refused~to~release~a~Muslim,~charged~over~the~train~torching~that~triggered~Gujarat's~Hindu-Muslim~rioting~two~years~ago,~so~he~could~go~home~to~have~sex~with~his~wife...
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 15 2004, 03:21 PM
Guj oppresses muslims, right ? And yet somehow they are more literate over here.. http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=403306 Well its another story that such things as literacy dont come in the way of the pure delight one feels in roasting the kaffirs .. Any case.. on Sulekha newshopper user "parsuram" posted this in response to a dork..
QUOTE
Iam not a Hyderabadi Muslim so how can we belong to the same jat. North Indians whether Hindus or Muslims are healthy eaters of vowels and rough handlers of consonants. The way you spell Jaath gives you away. Get it- you are no Memon. A true Memon will not devote such long hours on the board.even if ISI paid him crores of Australian dollars,he will outsource the foolish activity to some code-coolie and reserve his time for becoming Azim Premji. To do otherwise is to make fellow Memons convince that you are possessed by some fakir's bhoot, which they will try their best to exorcise. We have gone through Gujarat so many times that Iam dismissing all your nonsense as nonsense. Referring the excerpt you have reserved for me,the reference to Babri Masjid is gratuitous. Gujarat is a forward looking state, where the natural momentum of the society will drag the Muslims forward.Demolition of the mosque had generated two reactions- the immediate one was of fear whether thousands of mosques in the state will be demolished.This led to the move seeking handover of Ayodhya, Kashi and Mathura to Hindus in return for dropping future claims on other mosques. The Dr.Bandhukwala you referred to, a well-meaning Dawoodi Bohra with zero acceptance among Muslims, led this move in Gujarat. When the panicky sangh parivar dreading bloodbath deliberately cooled down the movement, another reaction set in - let the Hindus get blocked by the legal system and strengthen dealmaking forces among the Hindus. It worked so well that BJP, the main beneficiary of Ayodhya too became a deal maker. A Muslim in UK or USA will always get modern education. without a pasrticular will of his own.Well, Gujarat has the same atmosphere. Madrasahs in Gujarat are full of students from UP, Bihar and Rajasthan, but first preference is given to Kashmiris, as they are needed to fight India in Kashmir. The various jamats of Gujarati Muslims are organised like Hindu castes with benefits of the comunity reserved for that particular caste.This has worked remarkably well in spreading education among Mansuris(mattress makers) and Qureishis and the smaller community of Sunni Bohras. The flip side is that most of the educated members of ghese communities are leading luightys of Tabligh Jamat, Ahle Hadith and Dawat e Islami. Hanif Lakdawala is serving tasty bull-sh1t.Stuff yourself as much as you want, but we know what you are eating so we will wisely say no thank you we do not want it. Jafar Hussein Laliwala belongs to a notorious communalist family from Dariapur. His younger brother Munna Laliwala was the main accused in Dabgarwad case where 9 Hindus were torched to death in their home. The great discredit of the Gujarati Muslims is that their education is used to sinister use. They spit on the healthy forward looking environment provided by Gujarat. Their education is inspite of their religion but because of the Gujarati dynamism. The destructive use of their education was countered by problem solving Gujarati dynamism post Godhra. Until you actually visit Gujarat shut up about Muslim women not being safe in Gujarat. Go to last show in Ahmedabad Vadodara Multiplex and count the number of Burkha clad women with their long-bearded husbands enjoying themselves. Go to any consumer durables mela you will find Muslims. The memory of riots is a healthy cash cow for Teesta Setalwad and testarone provider for the leftists but for Gujarati Muslims they spell new doom in revived Best Bakery and other cases. It is time all of you shut up - the famous face of riot abandoned Calcutta and returned to Ahmedabad. Gujarat is where prosperity is. You can make money but behave yourself. Post Godhra this message has started sinking among Muslims. But Teesta blocks the spread re-inviting the calamity on the Muslims for her even greater prosperity.
Posted by: Viren Sep 15 2004, 03:29 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Sep 15 2004, 06:21 PM)
Until you actually visit Gujarat shut up about Muslim women not being safe in Gujarat. Go to last show in Ahmedabad Vadodara Multiplex and count the number of Burkha clad women with their long-bearded husbands enjoying themselves.
Ha! Ahmedabad Mayor is a Muslim. And a woman. And not from Modi's party. Name: Aneesa Mirza
Posted by: Viren Sep 15 2004, 03:34 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Sep 15 2004, 06:21 PM)
The memory of riots is a healthy cash cow for Teesta Setalwad and testarone provider for the leftists....
rajesh: Prof Ramesh Rao has written in his latest article (was printed in the India Abroad about 2 to 3 weeks ago):
QUOTE
Four years of BJP-led rule after coming to power in 1998 had been very disappointing for India’s secularists, for they had been predicting for years that “a BJP Prime Minister would prove to be Hitler and Khomeini in one, and that the Muslims would be thrown into the Arabian Sea if not into gas chambers”. In the four years since March 1998, they had to face down the fact that India’s streets remained peaceful and that the BJP government was extreme only in its humdrumness, as my friend Koenraad Elst puts it. The ugly riots in 2002 in Gujarat following the burning down of the Sabarmati Express therefore came as a great boon to the professional secularists. For ten long years (1992-2002) the Left/Marxist/Secularist brigades had milked the destruction of the Babri Masjid to their fullest advantage, and the willful among the parivar factions, by joining in the bloody riots in Gujarat, surely has given another ten years of demonizing and moralizing opportunities to the very same political combination.
Posted by: Viren Sep 22 2004, 10:20 AM
David, did you miss this post...
QUOTE (Viren @ Sep 10 2004, 05:15 PM)
QUOTE (David @ Aug 28 2004, 11:06 PM)
In retaliation, people don't slash foetuses.
David: Don't miss the last para... http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200408192011.htm
QUOTE
Putting the lid over another controversial and gruesome incident that emerged during the Naroda-Patiya massacre, Mysorewala, to a question by Sinha if he had heard of a victim called Kausar Banu, whose stomach was allegedly slit open and her foetus dangled on sword point, said he knew of her. "I am aware of her. She was killed by the rioting mob and she was nine months pregnant at the time. The post-mortem report, however, clearly indicates that the foetus was in the womb when she was killed," Mysorewala said and produced a copy of the report before the commission members.
Posted by: k.ram Sep 27 2004, 04:22 PM
Never ending whine of - you know who - ------------ India: After Gujarat Riots, Witnesses Face Intimidation State Government Fails to Provide Protection; Time for New Delhi to Step In (New York, September 24, 2004) -- As the courts hear cases stemming from the anti-Muslim riots of March 2002, the authorities in Gujarat are intimidating rather than protecting witnesses who seek to bring the perpetrators of the violence to justice, Human Rights Watch said in a new report released today. The central government in New Delhi must take immediate steps to ensure the protection of the victims and witnesses of the riots and their advocates. The 30-page report, “Discouraging Dissent: Intimidation and Harassment of Witnesses, Human Rights Activists and Lawyers,” documents how Hindu extremists have threatened and intimidated victims, witnesses and rights defenders who are fighting for the prosecution of those responsible for the killing and injury of Muslims during the riots. Instead of pursuing the perpetrators of violence, the state government—formed by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) under Chief Minister Narandra Modi—has nurtured a climate of fear. Officials have targeted those seeking justice with selective investigations by state tax authorities or the police. “Two years after the Gujarat riots, witnesses are being threatened and sometimes even attacked,” said Brad Adams, executive director of Human Rights Watch’s Asia Division. “Not only has the Gujarat government failed to pursue those responsible for the riots, it is obstructing justice by its failure to protect witnesses.” The violence in 2002 started with an attack in Godhra on a train carrying Hindus. Fifty-nine people died when a train carriage caught fire. In a retaliatory spree by Hindu mobs, hundreds of Muslims were slaughtered, tens of thousands were displaced, and their property was destroyed. Two years later, Muslims still live in fear because their attackers remain free and continue to make threats, particularly against those involved in prosecutions. While investigations in the Godhra case proceeded rapidly, with several indicted Muslims charged under the recently repealed Prevention of Terrorism Act (POTA), investigations into cases related to the anti-Muslim riots that followed were deliberately slow. The lower courts dismissed many cases for lack of evidence after public prosecutors effectively acted as defense counsel or witnesses turned hostile after receiving threats. Human Rights Watch praised recent decisions of the Indian Supreme Court to move some trials out of Gujarat to allow for a more impartial atmosphere and greater protection for witnesses, victims and lawyers. State governments should give adequate protection to witnesses and victims, order the appointment of a new public prosecutor, and order fresh police investigations into the case, Human Rights Watch said. The Supreme Court said that members of the Gujarat state administration “were looking elsewhere when…innocent women and children were burning, and were probably deliberating how the perpetrators of the crime can be saved and protected.” The Court rebuked both the Gujarat High Court and the local justice system, stating, “Judicial criminal administration system must be kept clean and beyond the reach of whimsical political wills or agendas.” To address these problems, Human Rights Watch urged the Indian government to set up a credible witness-protection program and provide more aid to the thousands of Muslims who are still living in squatter camps since being displaced by the riots. “The behavior of authorities in Gujarat during the riots and afterwards have given Muslims in India good reason not to trust the police or justice system,” said Adams. “The new government in New Delhi has a chance now to show that it is serious about justice. It should instruct the Central Bureau of Intelligence to take charge of investigations, and it needs to provide protection to people facing attacks and threats.” In previous reports on the 2002 Gujarat riots, Human Rights Watch has noted the failure of the court system to prosecute even known abusers and the authorities’ lack of political will to identify those who planned and executed the attacks. The report “Discouraging Dissent: Intimidation and Harassment of Witnesses, Human Rights Activists and Lawyers,” is available at: http://hrw.org/backgrounder/asia/india/gujarat/ ----------- Please help support the research that made this bulletin possible. In order to protect our objectivity, Human Rights Watch does not accept funding from any government. We depend entirely on the generosity of people like you. [Admin : Removed donation info]
Posted by: Mudy Sep 27 2004, 06:28 PM
Where were Human Rights Watch dogs during Khalistan movement when Hindus were buthered on daily basis and 84 riots when Sikhs were killed. Why they don't react at all during ethnic cleasing of Hindus from Kashmir. Moron will remain moron.
Posted by: Viren Oct 7 2004, 10:28 AM
Anyone know where Laloo's investigation is going wrt to Sabarmati express. Last I read somewhere was that he's busy answering the Supreme Court notice on his own fodder scam or auditining somewhere in Bollywood.
Posted by: Viren Oct 11 2004, 06:13 AM
Came via email: Question: How old is Mallika Sarabhai? --------------------
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Dancer and noted p-sec activist Mallika Sarabhai spoke at Stanford today. Predictably, the topic of the discussion was "Communal Harmony and the Role of Civil Society – A Personal Experience". As one can expect, she came up with a lot of anecdotal references to paint the Hindutva and the common people of Gujarat as terrible. She claimed that grade VI schoolbook in Gujarat portrays Hitler as the great European hero (KV: "Can somebody at IC clarify this?"). Then the Q&A session was thrown open to the audience. A sample of questions asked: KV: "Mallika, thanks for talking to us this afternoon. You have been campaigning for the last 2 ½ years for the nearly 1,000 minority victims of the reactionary riots in Gujarat. You also pointed out that you have been called a "Hindu-hater" and "Muslim-lover" by the right wing. (She nods vigorously thinking I am on her side!) In 1984, the Congress party massacred 3,000 Sikhs. Rajiv Gandhi, the PM designate, non-chalantly declared, "When a banyan tree falls, the earth quakes." The perpetrators of the crime have not been brought to justice. Most victims and their families have not seen justice. Yet, I have not seen you fight for the Sikh victims. In the Muslim majority Kashmir, 4,00,000 minority Hindus have been ethnic cleansed. I have not seen you campaign for them or against the jihadis who massacred and evicted them. I have not seen you campaign for the thousands of minority Hindus, Buddhists and tribal those are being ethnic cleansed in Bangladesh by the Islamic fundamentalists and who are in India in refugee camps. May I know what motivates you to select the battles only if the victims are Muslims?" MS: "I was a child when 1984 happened." ohmy.gif KV: "I said the Sikhs have not yet received justice. Kashmiri Hindus are still in refugee camp, and you are not a child now." MS: "Uh, well…I know I can't fight every battle. But, mmmm… I have worked with Hindu tribals. I have even worked with Rwandans." KV: "Anyone so long as they are not Hindus, right? Why not the 4,00,000 Kashmiri Hindus?" MS: "Well, you know a Kashmiri sent me a mail saying that I have been great to them." KV: "Like the Rothschilds who thanked with the Vatican? So, you have nothing to show that you worked for the Hindus?" At this point I was disallowed from asking any other question, but the organizers were at pain to explain this away till the end. Another girl asked this question: "Mallika, what do you think prompted the peace-loving Gujarati Hindus to react violently? Do you agree that the Godhra provoked them?" MS: "Well, I don't agree that the Hindus are peaceful. This cold hatred for the Muslims is there in the minds of the Gujarati Hindus and has been there for long. The riots were waiting to happen. The Muslims are considered another species." Another person asked: "If the Gujarati Hindus nurtured hatred for the Muslims, how come there was no violence against them though the BJP ruled since 1995? Remember, if there had not been a Godhra, there wouldn't have been a Gujarat reactionary violence." MS: "Well, those 2,000 Muslims that attacked the train must be punished. Not the rest. And the forensic reports have a different story to tell about the train fire." (does this answer??) The person who asked the question retorts but he is disallowed. The rest of the questions were just eulogy. Finally, the sponsor spoke. One Rajagopal declared, "Everyone thinks that Muslims started suicide bombing. I am a Tamil, and let me tell you that was first was started by the Tamil Hindu LTTE." KV interjects, "Rajagopal, ever heard of the Kamikaze pilots of Japan during the WWII? You don't know your facts." Someone had circulated pamphlets drawing attention to the fact that the founder of ASHA, Sandeep Pandey supports CPI-ML, which in turn calls for armed aggression. The pamphlets also drew attention to the fact that Khalim Kawaja of IMC is a known Taliban sympathizer, who has authored the article, "Brother, please spare a tear for the Taliban". ASHA and IMC co-sponsored the speech.
Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 11 2004, 09:48 AM
> MS: "I was a child when 1984 happened." ohmy.gif Ofcourse when it comes to blaming hinuds she wouldnt might going thousands of years back. She is a bloody communist, middle class is so self absorbed that nobody will speak , she belongs to the new brown sahib class. > One Rajagopal declared, "Everyone thinks that Muslims started suicide bombing. I am a Tamil, and let me tell you that was first was started by the Tamil Hindu LTTE." There goes the Dravidian pride, that is all being just Tamils smile.gif Rajagopal chap is "Raju Rajagopal" , a simple google will tell one more. K venkat has been doing a great job for quite some time, If I recollect correctly , he had exposed Thapar too earlier some time last year. Great Show K Venkat. Viren > Anyone know where Laloo's investigation is going wrt to Sabarmati express. Shld come out 2-3 months before Bihar elections or Shikhadi PM on direction of Antonia decides that he can remove Laloo to save govt. Laloo will come out with report..
Posted by: k.ram Oct 11 2004, 10:22 AM
More on Mallika Sarabhai: DISPLAY - I http://www.glamsham.com/dramas/Articles/04/aug/Colours.asp Colours of the Heart by Mallika Sarabhai and Samia Bhavik Shah Colours of the Heart, a dance-musical theatre piece, developed by dancer, actress and choreographer Mallika Sarabhai and British-Pakistani composer, writer and singer Samia Malik, will be performed on 8 August, at 11 am, at the Nehru Centre. The show features Mallika Sarabhai with other dancers and Samia Malik at the vocals. Samia is born in Saudi Arabia and was brought up in Britain. Samia Malik has been writing, composing and performing in English and Urdu for over two decades. She has sung about race relations, gender, language, politics, roots and religion. Mallika and Samia developed the show at the Darpana Academy of Performing Arts in Ahmedabad last year with support from the British Council. The show opened in Bangalore and has travels to Chennai, Hyderabad and Trivandrum. After Mumbai the show moves on to Kolkata, Jammu, Srinagar, Delhi and Ahmedabad. With their roots in South Asian lore, song and experiences Mallika and Samia have created this show based on their common commitments to issues of human rights and women's freedom. ART & ACTIVISM - Display II PERFORMING POLITICS: Celebrating Art as Activism the students of Wellesley College and the Davis museum and cultural center welcome MALLIKA SARABHAI performing her acclaimed solo piece In Search of the Goddess ---------------------------------------- Saturday, February 22, 2003 7:00 pm Jewett Auditorium Wellesley College Mallika Sarabhai is an inveterate storyteller. It is this urge that has been driving her to perform Kuchipudi for two decades. She has always stayed connected to her art and promotes the idea 'Arts for a Cause' wherever she goes. Apart from her mastery in Kuchipudi and Bharatanatyam, Sarabhai is also an actress. The Mother Goddess has always had a central role in Hindu mythology and belief. In a philosophy which accepts the primary being as Ardhanarishwara, a being half female-half male. Devi or Shakti is the primal kinetic energy without whom the male remains passive and immobile. In this performance, Mallika Sarabhai explores the perception of Shakti through classical dance, storytelling and mime. Taking some traditional pieces from the repertoire of Bharatanatyam and Kuchipudi, she juxtaposes these with her own contemporary interpretations of the Mother Goddess, using her own writing and that of other modern writers. {This is all fine, but in the following interview (with India Abroad) she talks about her idea of Goddess} DISPLAY - III (could not find this article or interview) Mathur, Chandana "I do not have the luxury of being apolitical", a conversation with Mallika Sarabhai SAMAR: South Asia Magazine for Action and Reflection, Summer 1995 DISPLAY -IV April 9,1999, INDIA ABROAD, Page 45 Sarabhai presents dances on Devi theme in N.Y.C. By JYOTIRMOY DATTA NEW YORK - Although the Mother Goddess has always had a central role in Hindu mythology and belief, noted dancer and activist Mallika Sarabhai cast a sharply contemporary light on the role of woman in her presentation of "Devi: The Mother Goddess" at the Museum of the American Indian in New York on March 29 and 30. "Devi: The Mother Goddess" is a sequence of six short dances Sarabhai specially choreographed for the opening of a groundbreaking exhibition of the same title at the Smithsonian Institution's Arthur M. Sackler Gallery in Washington, D.C., on March 28.The New York performances were presented by the Smithsonian National Museum of the American Indian, the Indo-American Arts Council and the Battery Dance Company in cooperation with the Smithsonian Freer Gallery of Art and Arthur M. Sackler Gallery, and were sponsored by the founding sponsor of the Arts Council. India Abroad, the State Bank of India and the Lexington Hotel. At the opening, Sarabhai depicted the creation of the universe by Devi. This was followed by a dance to the seven manifestations of Devi. the seven goddesses traditionally worshiped by Hindus. Next came innovative interpretations of Draupadi, the central feminine figure of the epic, Mahabharata, and of Savitri, held up by generations of men as the model Hindu wife. Sarabhai introduced a comic element in the next dance - about not a goddess but a woman who just missed deification. Her rendering of a one-eyed monkey and of a Brahmin made the audience burst into laughter. The evening concluded with a vigorous and passionate celebration of the lion-mounted slayer of demons, the mighty Katyayani, at the end of which Sarabhai danced on canvas, printing the image of a lion with the tapping of her feet. She interspersed the dancing with arguments, poetry and song. It was a triumphant celebration of woman as energy, power and beauty. At an interview at India Abroad on March 30, Sarabhai was asked to comment on painting with one's feet: Sarabhai: It is part of the Kuchipudi tradition. It used to be done at Srikakulam temple on the occasion of the chariot procession. The last time my guru C.R. Acharyalu saw it performed was when he was 5 years of age. And he taught it to me about 70 years later. He taught me to draw four figures; for Ganesha, I draw Ganesha, for Kartikeya I draw a peacock, a lotus for Lakshmi and for Katyayani a lion. Q. What is the concept of the Devi exhibition?What was the idea of its curator, Vidya Dehejia? Sarabhai: She (Dehejia) has taken the manifestation of the Devi, the female principle, through 2,000 years of Indian art history, she has taken forms of Devi from the classical tradition, the tantric and the folk, and its contemporary forms. All of it is there. It is a fresh look at woman on the eve of a new millennium. When she commissioned me to do the dances, she told me 'Mallika, do a Mallika piece. I have been working with manifestations of women, with historical women, with goddesses, for many years. Indeed this is my own issue, my core theme. The Draupadi piece that 1 did yesterday was written by my brother Kartikeya in Gujarati after seeing me doing Draupadi in Mahabharata. I had it translated into Tamil for the vocal accompaniment Q. Will you do the pieces in India that you did here? Will not this attack the traditional view that uwnen cause commotion? Sarabhai: I have to do what I have to do. Anyway, this is much less radical than most of my other work. I have done over 300 shows of my "Site's Daughters" all over the world. Even today, most daughters are told "Sitajaisi ban na," meaning "be passive, be a doormat be stamped upon." The Sita piece is much more hot politically. Q.Why? Sarabhai: Because of the Ram Janmabhumi and the BJP and the VHP. "Sita's Daughter" is about today. Q. And it all comes through in your performance. It was so powerful that naturally it endangers the status quo. Sarabhai: As a world citizen woman at the end of the century. I feel that as an artist I do not have the luxury of saying 'Shiva I love you very much, won't you come, I am longing for you.' Look at the mess the world is in at the end of the century! We have more hatred, more violence, more of everything negative than ever before. I am a political being. And I have in my hand an amazing instrument of communication. And I will use it for the things that bother me. For example, human rights, women's rights, racial rights. Q. We have heard about your mixed background; can you elaborate? Sarabhai: I am a mongrel. I am quarter Tamil, quarter Malayali, quarter Gujarati, quarter Kachchi. My Tamil musicians, however, have lived in Ahmedabad most of their lives. Q. Tell us about your bus trip with Vajpayee toLahore. Sarabhai: It was very decent of Vajpayee to choose two women who were very strong advocates of women's rights, me and Veena Nayyar of Women's Political Action Group. There was a lot of controversy over whether he should take only politicians or only film stars, but I think Vajpayee took a concerted decision that he would take with him two women who could show Pakistan the status of women in India. Yes, there were lots of women who were having a rough time, but yes, there were also lots of women who were fighting. Both of us are very antiestablishment Vajapyee clearly wished Pakistan to know India was not just Bollywood. His call came at 11 o'clock at night 48 hours before the trip. I was due to go to Nepal. I dropped everything and took the bus to Lahore. Q. Considering your actinism and your radical views, if was very interesting that Vajpayee took you along. Sarabhai: Yes, Vajpayee must be commended on the courage to take us. I am very open in my opposition to BJP's mix of politics and religion. I think politics and religion have nothing to do with each other. I am opposed to any group, to any party, anywhere that mixes religion with governance. Q. What is your political affiliation, if at all today. Sarabhai: At the moment with nobody, because out there, there is only a bunch of nothings, everybody is crossing over and changing colors and... Q. Did you have a favorite politician? Sarabhai: Lal Bahadur Shastri. I think if Shastri hadn't died, I think India would have been a very different place. When he asked the nation to fast once a week, you knew he himself was doing it Where are the politicians today who practice what they preach? DISPLAY - V http://www.indianexpress.com/columnists/such/20010305.html STAR TV's Indian language channel launched under the name Tara is reportedly up for sale. The multi-language Tara is headed by Rathikant Basu, the high profile former Doordarshan chief and later bossman at Star TV; and each language section is also headed by a high profile star. Inside sources say that Basu along with management consultant visited the ony chief a few weeks ago to explore the possibility of a buy out. It is a pity, says our source, that the brand equity of Tara does not equal the individual or the combined brand value of its individual language heads. It would be recalled that Tara-Marathi has Shoba De as its content head, Tara-Gujarati's editorial face is Mallika Sarabhai. There is also Tara Bengali and TAra Punjabi headed by formidable power-ladies. DISPLAY VI [some petition by commies and psecs and the scum] SAVE MALLIKA, EXPOSE THE VILLAINS We are extremely pained and disturbed to know that Mallika Sarabhai, one of the finest creative performance artists of contemporary India,and a committed humanist with a wide range of emancipatory concerns, has been forced to go into hiding to save her life from the murderous Hindu fundamentalists of Gujarat who have threatened to kill her and to burn down her famous Darpana Academy along with her aged mother, the great dancer Mrinalini Sarabhai. The threat has come in the wake of Mallika Sarabhai's interventions in the recent tragic happenings in Gujarat, her attempts to bring peace to the terror-torn state, and to expose the perpetrators of the genocide in Gujarat including photographing of the mopping up operations just prior to the Prime Minister's visit to the state intended to save their patronizing Chief Minister. This threat is the latest in a series of similar incidents aimed at disrupting peace and legitimizing violence against the minorities and terrorizing the liberal public, and committed artists and intellectuals. We take this threat to Mallika Sarabhai as a threat to our own lives, to the creative and pluralistic cultural traditions of our people, to the secular fabric of the country and to the fundamental freedom of speech and expression. We appeal to all peace-loving people and all artists, writers and intellectuals to intervene immediately to defend the basic freedom and to join the struggle for religious amity, cultural plurality, secular polity, and democratic and just governance. We appeal to the Government of India and the President of the Republic to take immediate steps to book the criminals, to reestablish the rule of law in Gujarat, and to forestall a communal conflagration across the country that is the evident agenda of the communal terrorists. K SATCHIDANANDAN
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 3 2004, 07:54 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/909521.cms
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VADODARA: In a major development in the Best Bakery case, key eyewitness Zaheera Sheikh on Wednesday accused the NGO that was helping her of "pressurising" her into making statements and naming "innocent persons" during the ongoing retrial of the case at a special court in Mumbai. Making this statement at a suddenly convened press conference, Zaheera said that she had filed an affidavit before the Vadodara collector "seeking protection from Teesta Setlvad and others of her NGO and that she wanted protection while testifying in the retrial." "Zaheera has filed the affidavit and we are looking into the matter. She has said that her original testimony before the Fast Track Court here was absolutely true and that Teesta was pressurising her to name innocent persons as accused during the retrial," Vadodara police commissioner S K Sinha said. Zaheera said she was "forced into making false statements by her own people from Vadodara at the behest of Teesta and even threatened her with dire consequences if she had not cooperated." She also denied ever meeting BJP MLA Madhu Shrivastav before the trial in Vadodara. The Best Bakery case was the first post-Godhra communal riots case that was transferred for retrial to Mumbai by the Supreme Court. Zaheera had earlier alleged that Shrivastav had threatened her against stating the truth before Vadodara Fast Track Court. When asked about petition filed by Teesta in the Supreme Court regarding the case, Zaheera said: "Teesta had drafted the petition in English and had told me that it was regarding the Best Bakery property and got my signature in it. I was not even aware that she was filing a petition in the Supreme Court." On being asked if she did try to approach Mumbai Police after she was allegedly threatened by Teesta and others, Zaheera said: "We had approached Victoria Terminus police but they did not file a complaint and we were threatened by her men when we stepped out of the police station." When asked about the judgement of the Vadodara Fast Track Court in June last year, that had acquitted all 21 accused, Zaheera said: "it (the judgement) was perfectly right ... I have no doubts in it." To a question as to what she would say while deposing before the special court in Mumbai, Zaheera said: "I will tell that only when I depose during the retrial." When asked about this sudden change in her statement, the prime witness said she did not want to "lie (any further) as it was the holy month of Ramzaan." Zaheera said she, her mother Sherunissa, her two brothers Nasibullah and Nafitullah, along with their two children had "fled from Teesta's custody" in Mumbai. After Zaheera filed the petition in the Supreme Court, seeking the retrial of the case outside Guajrat, the apex court had rapped the Gujarat judiciary about this and also regarding protection to riot witnesses.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 3 2004, 07:58 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/909511.cms
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AHMEDABAD: The brother of Zaheera Sheikh, the key witness in the Best Bakery riot case, has said she had lied to the courts under pressure from rights activist Teesta Setalvad, who was instrumental in getting the case reopened. Nafitullah, declared an "absconder" by prosecutors Wednesday for not appearing in the Mumbai High Court as a witness, told a TV channel from Vadodara, 110 km from here, that he fled Mumbai as Setalvad wanted him as well to lie to the courts. Zaheera herself filed for police protection in Vadodara Saturday, and told newsmen that she perceived a threat to her life from the rights activist. Nafitullah said he and his sister were pressurised into giving false names to the court for prosecution in one of the worst cases of communal violence of 2002. He, however, did not reveal which of the names they gave were false. He also did not comment on whether their statement that they witnessed the murders of 14 people in Vadodara's Best Bakery, including nine from their family, on March 21, 2002 was false or not. A fast track court had acquitted all the 21 accused in the case for lack of evidence. Later, Zaheera had told the media that she and her family had been coerced into suppressing the truth. Setalvad then campaigned for the reopening of the case, and also succeeded in getting it transferred from Gujarat to Mumbai.
I think the supreme court should start transferring cases out of Mumbai as there is threat to people from rights activists.. wink.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 3 2004, 08:32 AM
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she had lied to the courts under pressure from rights activist Teesta Setalvad
Finally, Teesta Setalvad vicious activities are in open. http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1088239,001301170000.htm
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Making this statement at a suddenly convened press conference, Zaheera said that she had filed an affidavit before the Vadodara collector "seeking protection from Teesta Setlvad and others of her NGO and that she wanted protection while testifying in the retrial." "Zaheera has filed the affidavit and we are looking into the matter. She has said that her original testimony before the Fast Track Court here was absolutely true and that Teesta was pressurising her to name innocent persons as accused during the retrial," Vadodara police commissioner SK Sinha said. Zaheera said that she was "forced into making false statements by her own people from Vadodara at the behest of Teesta and even threatened her with dire consequences if she had not cooperated
Posted by: Bhootnath Nov 5 2004, 10:52 AM
Best fakery? The Pioneer Edit Desk Best Bakery star witness Zaheera Sheikh has done it again. Only this time, the shoe is on the other foot: She has accused her self-styled champions of criminal intimidation and attempt to subvert the course of justice. It may be recalled that the case, undergoing retrial in Mumbai, was shifted out of Gujarat in the midst of a media circus and 'secular' sound and fury. If the latest account is to be believed, Ms Teesta Setalvad of the Citizens for Justice and Peace, a Mumbai-based NGO, and her associates whisked Zaheera away from her home, kept her confined illegally and forced her to sign papers whose contents were beyond her ken. The girl and her family, so the charge goes, were threatened with dire consequences if they did not cook up a story that would prove the 'guilt' of the "accused" let off in Gujarat. Zaheera now says the 'truth' about Best Bakery had been told back in the Vadodara fast-track court, which was demonised by 'rights'-defenders for acquitting the 21 accused for lack of evidence. The key witness, said to have turned 'hostile' then, had failed to identify the culprits. Today, after much mudslinging at Gujarat's Government, police and judiciary, Zaheera says she stands by her statement in Vadodara. Bizarrely, what was 'perjury' then now seems the 'truth'. And those who once swore by their Best Bakery mascot are now calling her a liar! If there ever was case of "We told you so", this is it. Cudgel-bearers on Zaheera's behalf should have listened to reason earlier, and not tried to morph her into a symbol of Muslim victimisation at the hands of saffron 'diabolism'. These axe-grinders had refused to see the hazards of 'justice'-seeking based on the testimony of a self-confessed perjurer! It had been pointed out in these very columns that Zaheera's credibility was eroded by her sudden post-Vadodara recantation, as also by conflicting eyewitness accounts. Given the claims and counter-claims, no impartial observer could have presumed to know the 'truth'. But that is what Zaheera's guardian angels did, from politicos to NGO-affiliated publicity hounds. Given the NGO angle in the sordid affair, BJP leaders Arun Jaitley and Narendra Modi have done well to demand a thorough look at the nature of the relations between these outfits and riots case witnesses. Both have rightly called for an institutional mechanism by which such free-wheeling organisations can be made answerable for unwarranted trespassing in matters beyond their brief. Surely sensitive trials are not the terms of reference of self-professed social workers. Nor can NGOs be allowed to pass 'guilty' verdicts even before the nation's judiciary does. The adventurists who yesterday held Zaheera as a gospel truth-teller are now accusing her of intrigue. By her U-turn, if she was a pawn at all, it was at the hands of inauthentic do-gooders in pursuit of false testimonies. And if anything stands exposed, it is the noxious influence of NGO hyperactivism on the dispensation of justice. The Congress-led UPA has gone out of its way to cultivate civil society representatives so much so that NGO members have turned decision-makers, even authorities on policy formulation. Suspicions are bound to arise over the UPA-NGO link, and fingers pointed at its possible bearing on l'affaire Zaheera. Some NGOs are said to have, come election-time, played vote-solicitors for the Congress. That Ms Setalvad has a seat on the Central Advisory Board of Education will also aid tongue-wagging. The Zaheera shocker will fuel speculation on whether NGOs are being floated as fronts by certain parties, and political agendas being pushed under the garb of 'social service'. NGOs have done enough selective bashing of office-holders. They should now be made to produce some answers about their own lack of accountability.
Posted by: Bhootnath Nov 5 2004, 10:54 AM
Incidentally , the Visual Media DOESNT mention the NGO's - NAME!
Posted by: Mudy Nov 5 2004, 11:53 AM
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That Ms Setalvad has a seat on the Central Advisory Board of Education will also aid tongue-wagging. The Zaheera shocker will fuel speculation on whether NGOs are being floated as fronts by certain parties, and political agendas being pushed under the garb of 'social service'. NGOs have done enough selective bashing of office-holders. They should now be made to produce some answers about their own lack of accountability.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 7 2004, 07:11 PM
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Another witness accuses Teesta Mumbai A day after Best bakery case witness Zaheera Sheikh sought police protection from social activist Teesta Setalvad, an accused in the case on Thursday claimed Ms Setalvad had "threatened" him while being taken out of the court. Dinesh Rajbhar, the accused, told Special Judge am Thipsay that Ms Setalvad had warned him on Wednesday evening that "hum tum sab ko dekh lenge (we will see you all)." The court has taken the complaint on record. biggrin.gif http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front% 5Fpage&file_name=story4%2Etxt&counter_img=4
Posted by: Mudy Nov 8 2004, 08:36 PM
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=38206
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New Delhi, November 8: Key witness in the Best Bakery case Zaheera Sheikh on Monday moved the National Commission for Minorities (NCM) alleging that she was being "pressurised" by activist Teesta Setalvad and her NGO and pleaded helplessness on account of belonging to a minority community. "We received a letter from her (Zaheera) today in which she has complained of being coerced to name innocent persons in the case by Setalvad and her NGO. She has written that she is feeling helpless as she belongs to a minority community," NCM chairman Tarlochan Singh said. In her letter, Zaheera also repeated her allegations that she was forcibly taken to Mumbai by some locals at the behest of Setalvad and that she was also threatened with dire consequences and kept in confinement by the activist there. The crucial eyewitness also said Setalvad had "threatened her with dire consequences" if she did not cooperate with the developments in the case and had kept her in isolation in Mumbai, Singh said. The NCM chairman informed that the Commission has taken cognisance of the complaint. Zaheera, who made a shocking turnaround last week, alleging she was being pressurised into naming innocent persons in the Best Bakery case, along with her relatives, was currently staying at an undisclosed location under police protection.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 9 2004, 09:28 AM
http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=gujaratviolence&slug=Teesta+seeks+anticipatory+bail&id=63386&callid=1&category=National&headline=Teesta~seeks~anticipatory~bail
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The move comes in the wake of an affidavit filed by prime witness Zaheera Shaikh in the Best Bakery case, who had leveled criminal charges against Teesta. Teesta filed a petition praying that in the event of the arrest she may be granted anticipatory bail
Posted by: Dev Nov 9 2004, 10:45 AM
WTF is anticipatory bail???? We should get rid of such "draconian" provisions so that criminals and gangsters and terrorists like Teesta Setalvad can get the privilege of getting convicted.
Posted by: Viren Nov 10 2004, 11:44 AM
This is Kushwant Singh on events about 20 years ago....http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20041115&fname=Sikh+%28F%29&sid=1 Please note the advise giving by a President to a well known scribe in the capital of the country.
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October 31, 1984: The sequence of events remains as vivid as ever. Around 11 am, I heard of Mrs Gandhi being shot in her house and taken to hospital. By the afternoon, I heard on the bbc that she was dead. For a couple of hours, life in Delhi came to a standstill. Then hell broke loose—mobs yelling khoon ka badla khoon se lenge (we'll avenge blood with blood) roamed the streets. Ordinary Sikhs going about their life were waylaid and roughed up. In the evening, I saw a cloud of black smoke billowing up from Connaught Circus: Sikh-owned shops had been set on fire. An hour later, mobs were smashing up taxis owned by Sikhs right opposite my apartment. Sikh-owned shops in Khan Market were being looted. Over 100 policemen armed with lathis lined the middle of the road and did nothing. At midnight, truckloads of men armed with cans of petrol attacked the gurudwara behind my back garden, beat up the granthi and set fire to the shrine. I was bewildered and did not know what to do. Early next morning, I rang up President Zail Singh. He would not come on the phone. His secretary told me that the president advised me to move into the home of a Hindu friend till the trouble was over. The newly-appointed prime minister, Rajiv Gandhi, was busy receiving guests arriving for his mother's funeral; home minister Narasimha Rao did not budge from his office; the Lt Governor of Delhi had no orders to put down the rioters. Seventy-two gurudwaras were torched and thousands of Sikh houses looted. The next few days, TV and radio sets were available for less than half their price.
Posted by: Viren Nov 11 2004, 10:25 AM
http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/nov/29varsha.htm
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In September, India Today wrote: "According to media planners, the ad campaign should have cost some Rs 75 lakh," money Teesta claims to have raised 'from a wide spectrum of well-wishers including corporates, trade unions, women's groups and NGOs'." Really? But didn't you inform the Express that no other NGO contributed...? Can we see documentation to prove that Sabrang didn't use foreign funds? That it is not a front for foreign powers working against the "Hindu nationalist fundamentalist party"? After all, entities like the Vatican, the ISI, American evangelists, Arab countries, etc, have plenty of moolah to disperse. This NGO business is very tricky, indeed. In January 1997, Seema Mustafa wrote, "The points in the [Kashmir] strategy developed by the US planners is sinister for three basic reasons. One, it wants to generate Congressional support that will reduce the international support for the elections in Kashmir... Two, its focus on NGOs coming out of the realisation that these can testify before the Congress, furnish latest information about the situation in Kashmir, generate pressure on the Indian government from within (again the Pakistan-India People's Forum for Peace and Democracy is one such obvious outfit set up for 'people to people' contact) and act as catalysts, when required, for political dialogue between the concerned parties." Teesta Setalvad is a core group member of the Pakistan-India People's Forum for Peace and Democracy.
BTW, anyone know the whereabouts of Varsha Bhosale these days?
Posted by: Viren Nov 11 2004, 10:27 AM
http://www.hvk.org/specialrepo/hate/4.html
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This interview took place after the elections were over. While the election process was on, Setalvad was asked about the source of finance. In The Asian Age (September 4, 1999), Setalvad had said that the support comes from four political parties, some corporate house and certain NGOs. In India Today (September 13, 1999), she said it was "from a wide spectrum of well-wishers including corporates, trade unions, women's group and NGOs." There is an axiom that it is very hard to be consistent when one is telling lies. The reports also said that Setalvad and her team for this campaign operated from the residence of a Congress leader, and worked closely with the media cell of the party.
Posted by: Viren Nov 11 2004, 10:31 AM
But then http://www.thehoot.org/story.asp?section=%E2%8C%A9=L1&storyid=Web21021416663Hoot115732+PM898&pn=1 Javed Anand, who along with wife Teesta has edited Communalism Combat for ten years, tells Jyoti Punwani ....
QUOTE
Q There were allegations that the Congress sponsored those ads. A We couldn’t have run those ads without sponsors! The Congress was one of the sponsors, and we feel no shame about associating with the Congress. We’d do it again.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 11 2004, 02:58 PM
Ques for Marathas.. Is Teesta a marathi name ?
Posted by: Viren Nov 11 2004, 03:10 PM
Rajesh: Believe it's a river in Sikkim http://66.218.71.225/search/cache?p=teesta&toggle=1&ei=UTF-8&u=library.thinkquest.org/10131/sikkim_kanchendzonga.html&w=teesta&d=F2FA9EDE2F&icp=1&.intl=us
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 11 2004, 03:33 PM
Thanks Viren, Any links for Teesta's photo ? I just want to know whether she is marathi or not - curiosity. Setalvad sounds marathi but Teesta doesnt. smile.gif
Posted by: Viren Nov 11 2004, 03:38 PM
http://www.sikhtimes.com/news_111703a.html go rajesh...not the best one, but then I could be wrong tongue.gif or check the latest one http://in.news.yahoo.com/041104/149/2hoao.html
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 11 2004, 04:01 PM
Thanks Viren, looks marathi alrite.. smile.gif
Posted by: arindam Nov 11 2004, 06:18 PM
Please help spread this petitition and getting signatures on it....
QUOTE
Friends, Here is a petition that attacks the completely on-sided presentation of facts on the Teesta Setalvad's "attack on judiciary" case. It points to three facts: - unnecessary influence of NGOs on the Indian judicial process, especially NGOs with completely unknown sources of funding, including foreign ones - Teesta's activities bordering on the criminal in this case - The unfairness of a battle between an all-powerful, well-funded NGO, with strong political backing attacking a poor, Muslim girl, who is barely out of her teens - The attitude of the press which has suddenly jumped on the side of Teesta's unlawful antics - evcen to the point of coming up with wild-wooly eyed stories - no balance at all. Please sign the petitition and ask your friends to do so - http://www.petitiononline.com/ngoi/petition.html
Posted by: arindam Nov 11 2004, 07:07 PM
http://www.petitiononline.com/ngoi/petition.html
QUOTE
To: http://www.petitiononline.com/ngoi/petition.html HON’BLE MR. JUSTICE R.C. LAHOTI, Chief Justice of Supreme Court Of India. SHRI U.S. MISRA, Director CBI HON’BLE MR. JUSTICE K. JAYACHANDRA REDDY, Chairman Press Council of India. The case pertaining to the Best Bakery massacre appears to have become more of a contrivance to score political points than to execute justice. The undersigned appeal for fair, open and unbiased examination of the facts, and the administration of justice to all. Zaheera Sheikh, upon whose out-of-court statements the Supreme Court ordered a retrial of the citizens acquitted by the Gujarat court, has now declared that she has been criminally intimidated, kidnapped and illegally detained by the NGO Citizens for Justice and Peace and its counselor Teesta Setalvad.. In her own words Zaheera admitted that she perceived a threat to her life from Ms.Setalvad. She narrated how she was abducted at knifepoint at the behest of Ms. Setalvad. She has declared that "Teesta forced me into changing my earlier deposition. She threatened me with dire consequences if I did not follow her instructions." Ms Setalvad’s actions appear not to be of conciliation or bona fide concern, but rooted in widening the communal chasm. In Zaheera’s words, “When I asked her what she wanted, she said, 'You have to fight for your community, for which even if you have to tell lies, you'll have to tell lies before court.” Zaheera Sheikh has also charged Ms Setalvad of holding her captive and threatening her of lynching. Since her deposition against Ms Setalvad, Zaheera Sheikh has also sought the counsel and protection of National Committee for Minorities (NCM) and The National Commission for Women (NCW). She met with Ms Poornima Advani of the NCW in the week of Nov 8-14 . Ms Advani has constantly fought for the human rights of those affected by the Gujarat incidents. Ms Advani welcomed Zaheera’s stance and rejected allegations of illegal pressure by the Gujarat Govt. by confirming to the press that “Zaheera was under no pressure and was doing her own things”. A day after Zaheera Sheikh sought police protection from Ms. Setalvad, an accused in the case Dinesh Rajbhar told special judge A M Thipsay that Setalvad had 'threatened' him while being taken out of the court in Mumbai. The court has taken the complaint of Ms. Setalvad’s threat in the words - "Hum tum sab ko dekh lenge (We will see you)” - on record. Zaheera Sheikh revealed that Ms. Setalvad even threatened Zaheera with her monetary clout: "I told Teesta I would lodge a complaint against her with Vadodara police and expose her, but Teesta replied, 'We are very rich and influential. You can't harm us that way.” Ms. Setalwad’s own past activities corroborate Zaheer’s claim and give cause for alarm. In the guise of “fighting communalism” her organization Sabrang Communications appears to have been sowing communal discord and conducting anti-Indian activities for several years. When Indian soldiers were fighting in Kargil in 1999, Setalwad’s “Aman” organization was teaching children using a website map depicting all of J&K and parts of Gujarat as part of Pakistan – a clear violation of Indian law. She and her spouse Javed Anand solicited and appear to have accepted foreign funds for political campaigns through the US-based “SINGH Foundation” – a so-called “charity” with an “overhead rate” of over 52%. Sabrang Communications channeled funds to U.S.-based Indian communists and Pakistani interests to conduct a slander campaign against an Indian-American charity which supports leprosy patients and orphans in India. This attack was defeated and exposed by public outrage, upon which the attackers have morphed into “Kashmir researchers”. Their organization has been reported in the Pakistani press as being run by the ISI. Setalwad has viciously attacked Indian musicians who asked for equivalent access to Pakistani markets, as offered to Pakistani musicians here. Do we really want such a person and her coterie to affect our judicial system? Whom do we believe? A powerful, foreign-funded daughter of a rich lawyer, with obvious anti-Indian political motives and high-level connections in the judicial establishment, or a hapless young girl barely out of her teens, bereaved and homeless? - This petition is also an appeal of the undersigned to the Press Council of India to advise restraint on the astounding one-sidedness of press reporting. While Zahira Sheikh’s reputation is tarnished with her constant about faces, her allegations against Ms. Setalvad must be investigated without prejudice. Elements of the press, having painted themselves into a corner with irresponsible statements about the original trial, are now slandering Zaheera with speculations about her character, and stories about greed and letting down her community. India’s leading English daily had a sensational headline titled “'Zahira retracted for money' – with no corroborating evidence. Another nationally syndicated columnist devoted an entire op-ed in defense of Teesta Setalvad without even the minimum of investigation into any of Zaheera’s charges. The credibility of our national press depends on their observing minimal standards of professionalism and competence. We the undersigned demand that the Indian judicial system, the investigating agencies and the press exercise their responsibilities to be fair, professional and independent, and to stop being held hostage by individuals with questionable intentions and NGOs with unaccounted sources of funding. Thank you.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 11 2004, 07:38 PM
Who is this rascal ?? mad.gif http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_11-11-2004_pg3_3
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 15 2004, 04:41 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/922066.cms I think we should make Setalvad the Chief Justice of India and remove all doubts. Her Highness is making all the calls anyway.. dry.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 16 2004, 04:27 PM
http://www.indiafirstfoundation.org/articles/article6.htm---by Dina Nath Mishra
QUOTE
Teesta Setalvad and her associates run the Communalism Combat and Citizens For Peace And Justice - two Mumbai-based NGOs. The organisations and the people associated with them have come to be the hot favourites of all anti- Hindu and psuedo-secular forces. In the elections of 1999, Teesta and the Communalism Combat ran parallel publicity campaigns against the BJP and its allies worth crores. No one, except them, knows where the money came from. Communalism Combat has acquired a status of a big business.
QUOTE
From the face of it, it looks like a mafia operation masterminded by Teesta and a few Muslims bent on making it a 'Kaum ka Savaal'.
QUOTE
Not one rioter was killed when anti-Sikh riots broke out in Delhi and other parts of the country. In Delhi alone more than 3,000 Sikhs were killed. Even the Central Government and police administration failed at the very seat of power - Delhi. The failure of judiciary to punish anybody has to be addressed but not by hyper active and biased mafia like operations of Teesta Setalvad and the gang
Posted by: Mudy Nov 17 2004, 04:07 PM
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200411180316.htm?headline=Another~Best~Bakery~witness~does~U-turn
QUOTE
Mumbai, Nov 18. (PTI): Yasmin Shaikh, an important eye witness in the Best Bakery case, today denied before the trial court her earlier statement in a television interview that the carnage had occurred because of her estranged husband Nafitulla Shaikh marrying a Hindu woman. Answering questions posed by the defence lawyer Adik Shirodkar, Yasmin denied having told a television channel on September 20, 2003, that the Best Bakery carnage was not a fall out of Godhra riots and had occurred because of Nafitulla's second marriage to a Hindu woman
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 17 2004, 04:22 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Nov 17 2004, 04:07 PM)
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200411180316.htm?headline=Another~Best~Bakery~witness~does~U-turn
QUOTE
Mumbai, Nov 18. (PTI): Yasmin Shaikh, an important eye witness in the Best Bakery case, today denied before the trial court her earlier statement in a television interview that the carnage had occurred because of her estranged husband Nafitulla Shaikh marrying a Hindu woman. Answering questions posed by the defence lawyer Adik Shirodkar, Yasmin denied having told a television channel on September 20, 2003, that the Best Bakery carnage was not a fall out of Godhra riots and had occurred because of Nafitulla's second marriage to a Hindu woman
http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/nov/17best1.htm This case is becoming a big circus.. Consider this..
QUOTE
Yasmin was flabbergasted when Adik Shirodkar told her that social worker Thakker, whom she had named in her police statement as a member of the crowd on the ill-fated day, had passed away one year before the incident. She was unable to say how the name of social worker cropped up in her police statement.
rolleyes.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 17 2004, 04:33 PM
QUOTE
She was unable to say how the name of social worker cropped up in her police statement.
ROTFL.gif God save India!!! Atleast bring psec NGO with some IQ and brain.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 18 2004, 08:23 AM
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200411181904.htm?headline=Zaheera's~brother~retracts~statements~to~police
QUOTE
Nasibullah said a huge mob came to the Bakery and started throwing stones at the inmates. He and others covered their faces with blankets and mattresses and there was smoke all around and he later learnt from newspapers that the Bakery was set on fire. Nasibullah, responding to the query of prosecutor Manjula Rao, said he did not know accused Jayanti Chaiwala Painter, Mahesh, Munna, Lallu and Pratap and retracted his police statement in which it was mentioned that these persons had played a major role. The witness told the court that he had merely narrated the incident to the police but had not disclosed names of any persons involved in the attack on the bakery.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 18 2004, 07:24 PM
http://web.mid-day.com/news/city/2004/november/97267.htm rolleyes.gif
QUOTE
Wait for the screening of the tapes! These were defence counsel Adhik Shirodkar’s parting remarks as he concluded yesterday’s cross-examination of Yasminbanu Shaikh, one of the prime eyewitnesses in the Best Bakery case and sister-in-law of Zahira Shaikh. The tape referred to by Shirodkar contains Yasminbanu’s interview to a Vadodara television channel TNN, given allegedly on September 23, 2003. Shirodkar and his associates D S Jambaulikar and Mangesh Pawar are likely to screen the tape in court today. In the interview, Yasminbanu is alleged to have proclaimed that all the accused are innocent. Yasminbanu, while admitting to have given the interview, claimed it was done after Zahira turned hostile in the Vadodara court. Further in the interview, Yasminbanu is also alleged to have mentioned that the Best Bakery attack was a result of her husband Nafitullah’s second mariage to a Hindu woman, Kailash Vasava. Continuing his cross examination, Shirodkar claimed Yasminbanu was giving false evidence in court as she wanted to spite her husband Nafitullah, who had married a Hindu girl. “The attack on the Best Bakery was not as a result of the Godhra carnage,” claimed Shirodkar. “It was a family dispute over property.” Shirodkar also claimed there were gross discrepancies in the statements given by Yasminbanu to the police and the evidence rendered by her in court. Discrepancies? Yasminbanu names “social worker Thakkar” as leading the mob. According to the defence, Thakkar had been dead a year before the attack. Yasminbanu said she named his son Sanjay Thakkar. In her statement to the police, Yasminbanu said Kausar had returned after pleading with the mob. In court she said Kausar and Mullah had been attacked with swords and thrown into the fire. In an interview, she claimed the Bhatts living across their house had called the police and saved them. She was unable to reply why police did not record her statement about the accused identified by her, or other important details of the case. Transcripts of the interview (Provided by defence counsel to the court) • “The (Best Bakery) attack happened because of Kailash (Nafitullah’s second wife). The mob was repeatedly shouting the name of Kailash.” • “There was unrest in the whole mohalla when Kailash gave birth to a male baby from Nafitullah.” • “Kailash is my husband’s mistress. I don’t know how my husband could fall in love with her. Even after my marriage, she is not leaving him.” • “The attackers were not from the locality, but outsiders.” • “Even if I have to go to the Supreme Court, I will proclaim that all the accused persons (named by Zahira) are innocent.”
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 18 2004, 07:27 PM
Some more Teesta magic... http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=Gujaratviolence&slug=Best+Bakery+case%3A+Nasibulla+turns+hostile&id=63844&callid=1&category=National
QUOTE
However today, Nasibullah said he didn't see anyone as it was dark and smoky.Towards the end of the hearing, he said he and his family had been threatened by Rayees Khan, an aide of Teesta Setalvad, around Navratri, which prompted the family to move out of Mumbai. The testimony is a clear sign that the battlelines have been drawn among the Best Bakery witnesses.
I think Supreme Court should transfer the Best Bakery case to Srinagar.. rolleyes.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 18 2004, 08:05 PM
They should move it to Calcutta. Teesta must be regreting, pinkos were doing much better in Gujarat, atleast daily punching to Modi and Saffaron.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 19 2004, 12:16 PM
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13613432
QUOTE
Nafitullah said Teesta and her associates had threatened him to give false statements in the trial court. Teesta had deployed two to three men to keep a watch on him in a house in Mumbai and he was not allowed to go anywhere or meet anyone, the witness said. Asked why he had not complained to police, Nafitullah said "I was very much scared of these persons and did not disclose her threats two days ago when I came to the court as she (Teesta) was very much present."
I think minorities commission should investigate Teesta. She is threatening minorities into making false statements..
Posted by: bgravi Nov 20 2004, 08:02 PM
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=59288 http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=59313
Posted by: Viren Nov 22 2004, 08:54 AM
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=38720&headline=Exclusive:~Radical~Islam~poses~threat~to~India
QUOTE
When she made these charges I remembered other charges that had been made and contacted Teesta’s husband and partner, Javed Anand. He requested a list of questions which I sent and he answered, albeit in hurt tones that I should ask the same questions that had been raised by the ‘‘saffron brotherhood’’. In answer to a question, he said the magazine did not need to be registered as an NGO because it was not one. It was a private limited company, he said, that rendered accounts to the Income Tax Department. Fine. Though communalism is an odd subject to make a profit out of. This is not about Communalism Combat or the fight between Zaheera and Teesta. What it is about is the number of magazines and NGOs that have thrived on maligning India for being a country as fundamentalist as our Islamic neighbours. Is it not time to ask where their funds come from?
Posted by: Sudhir Nov 30 2004, 12:14 PM
Lucky chap this muslim cleric. His a$$ would have been grass by now if it had been a Hindu seer. From Hindu Non-bailable sections in Saidabad rioting case revoked? By Our Staff Reporter HYDERABAD, NOV. 28. The State Government has reportedly directed the police to withdraw non-bailable sections from the criminal case registered in connection with the attack on policemen and rioting at Saidabad on November 1 during the funeral procession of Mujahid, who was allegedly shot dead by the Gujarat police. The body of Mujahid, who had died while trying to forcibly set free the cleric, Naseeruddin, from police custody, was taken out in procession from the Osmania General Hospital to his Saidabad house. The rally turned violent after irate mobs resorted to stone pelting and attempted to torch the East Zone DCP's vehicle forcing the police to open fire. The Saidabad police registered a criminal case against the accused under sections 307 (attempt to murder), 147 (rioting), 148 (rioting armed with a deadly weapon), 427 (mischief and damaging property) and 324 (voluntarily causing hurt) and a section of Prevention of Damage to Public Property Act. Of these, section 307 and provision of Prevention of Damage toPublic Property Act were non-bailable. Amicable settlement It is said the organisations accused of fomenting trouble during the procession arrived at an understanding with the officials to amicably settle the case. Following withdrawal of the non-bailable sections, they would persuade the accused in the case to surrender before the police. As other sections are bailable, the accused would be let off on personal bond after surrendering at the police station.
Posted by: Mudy Dec 2 2004, 04:22 PM
http://www.ndtv.com/template/template.asp?template=Gujaratviolence&slug=Zaheera%27s+sister+turns+hostile&id=64543&callid=1&category=National&headline=Zaheera's~sister~turns~hostile
QUOTE
Key witness in the Best Bakery case, Zahira Shiekh's sister Saira turned hostile today. Like her brothers Nafitullah and Nasibullah, Saira did a U-turn from her statement to the police two years ago and denied seeing anything on the night when the bakery was attacked. Saira told the court today that she heard rising noise outside the bakery that night and like others in her family she too fled to the terrace. The bakery was set on fire and there was smoke all around. But Saira said that she didn't know what happened thereafter. Unlike her brothers, she admitted she was neither injured and nor had she passed out.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 6 2004, 10:55 AM
http://www.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/06guj.htm
QUOTE
The Supreme Court on Monday asked key witness Zaheera Sheikh and the Gujarat government to explain whether her latest statement favouring the accused in the Best Bakery case amounted to filing a false affidavit before the apex court and should it be viewed as contempt of court. A bench comprising Justice Arijit Pasayat and Justice H K Sema also issued notice to the National Human Rights Commission on an application filed by Teesta Setalvad of the�non-governmental organisation�- Citizens for Justice and Peace.
I am sorry to say that the h'ble judges have got it wrong. They should have issued notices to Teesta also. Is SC Teesta's baap-ki-jagir ? And whats with the "Non Governmental Organisation" BS ? http://iecolumnists.expressindia.com/full_column.php?content_id=60205
QUOTE
Let us start with ‘‘insinuations’’. There were no insinuations. I was clear that I found Teesta’s ‘‘high-flying’’ ways questionable. When Zaheera Sheikh charged that Teesta had exploited her for monetary gain I remembered that people often wondered about Communalism Combat’s funding and saw it as an NGO with an agenda. Inquiries with the Charity Commissioner of Maharashtra revealed that they were not listed as an NGO, so I rang Javed Anand and asked why not. He said it was because they were a private limited company. I asked him outright if he would like to answer the charge that Communalism Combat was funded with Saudi money. No insinuation there. The reason I asked was because an editor I know was once asked to edit a magazine on communalism and refused when it was revealed that money for the enterprise was coming from the Gulf.
So lets call them "profiteering lobbyists" for thats what they are.. mad.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 13 2004, 09:00 PM
xpost http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/956691.cms
QUOTE
MUMBAI: The Dawood gang had set aside a large amount of money to finance a bid to poison 17 accused in the Best Bakery case, currently lodged in Arthur Road Jail in central Mumbai. Following the unearthing of the conspiracy by jail authorities, the Dawood aide, who is in the jail in connection with the 1993 Mumbai serial bomb blast case, has been shifted from the general barracks to a high-security cell inside the jail premises. The Tada court, which is trying the bomb blast accused, is also being informed of the incident. Police sources said Dawood, who is in Karachi, is under pressure from Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) to avenge the killing of Muslims in Gujarat during the riots. If the plot hatched in Arthur Road Jail had succeeded, it would have been possible for him to redeem himself in the eyes of the ISI all over again, the sources added. Dawood is said to be virtually a prisoner of the ISI and has little choice but to do the bidding of this agency. Ever since Swati Sathe, who is Maharashtra's only woman jailor, took charge of Arthur Road Jail, she has come down on smuggling and other rackets which were prevailing there. Security has been beefed up to unprecedented levels.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 14 2004, 07:12 PM
xpost http://www.dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=FLASH&file_name=cap2%2Etxt&counter_img=2
QUOTE
Underworld don Dawood Ibrahim is alleged to have issued a threat to kill Judge Abhay Thipsey conducting the Best Bakery re-trial in Mumbai and poison 17 accused in the case, charged Narayan Rane, leader of Opposition in the Assembly. Mr Rane told the House the information was provided by Arthur Road Jail Superintendent Swati Sathe.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 15 2004, 02:40 PM
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/15best.htm
QUOTE
Sehrunnisa Sheikh, mother of prime witness in the Best Bakery case, Zaheera Sheikh, on Wednesday alleged that social activist Teesta Setalvad had threatened to kill her. Deposing before the session courts in Mumbai, where a retrial is being conducting into the Best Bakery carnage, Sehrunnisa alleged that Setalvad and her colleague, Rais Khan, had visited her house in Mumbai over a month ago and threatened to shoot her. She also alleged that her son Nafitullah was dragged and taken away in a vehicle by four men the same day.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 16 2004, 12:43 PM
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=39693
QUOTE
Mumbai, December 16: Sehrunnisa Sheikh, mother of prime witness in the Best Bakery case Zaheera Sheikh, was on Thursday taken into custody after the trial court initiated contempt proceedings against her for her defiant attitude during her deposition as a witness. She would be kept in custody till the contempt notice is served on her on Thursday evening. Soon after the development, her lawyer Harshad Ponda told the court that he was withdrawing from the case and would not appear on her behalf. When Sehrunnisa was tendering evidence, she frequently looked at Raes Khan, an NGO activist, who was sitting in the court. The judge told her to address the court and not to look at others. But the witness continued to look at Raes. Sehrunnisa said Raes was gesturing at her and hence she was looking at him. The judge warned her that she could be held for contempt to which Sehrunnisa replied, "Please take action against me." On Wednesday, she had alleged that social activist Teesta Setalvad and Raes Khan had given her death threats. Sehrunnisa alleged that Setalvad and Raes had visited her house here over a month ago and threatened to shoot her and her family. She also alleged that her son Nafitullah was dragged and taken away in a vehicle by four men around the same time. The judge had on Wednesday pulled up Sehrunnisa for her improper behaviour in the courtroom.
Posted by: k.ram Dec 18 2004, 07:42 AM
PIL praying for stay in the proceedings in Mumbai court in the Best Bakery case- Copy K.G.Acharya ( Free lance journalist and a Gandhian and Ambedkarite human rights activist) 187/ 5235 Sanmati Society Pant Nagar, Ghatkopar, Mumbai - 400 075 Cell No. 982995440, Land line Tel. No. : 25119890 Date: 17 December 2004 To The Honourable Chief Justice R. C. Lahoti, brother judges Justices S. B.Sinha, S. H. Kapadia, A. R. Lakshmanan, Doraiswamy Raju, Arjit Pasayat and other judges of The Supreme Court of India New Delhi I have been observing that many politicians with vested interests and in the garb of an impartial NGO are engaged in media trial in the Best Bakery case, by distorting some and suppressing some other facts to suit them. If the people believe that this untruth has resulted in a possible human error in delivering judgement by the Supreme Court, I am afraid, it will have extremely serious consequences on the judiciary, secularism, communal harmony, democracy and all of our nation’s activities. I am, therefore, to request the Honourable Supreme Court, very humbly, to review its earlier verdict of transferring the Best Bakery trial outside Gujarat by taking into consideration my submissions very carefully. Since, I am not an advocate, if my language is not in keeping with the usual petitions, I beg your pardon and very humbly request you to take into consideration only the contents in the true spirit of delivering a judgement. Please consider this letter as a PUBLIC INTEREST LITIGATION or whatever else it is called in legal terms, but give this instrument due consideration on its merits. I am to pray that if convinced by my submissions, the Supreme Court revert its earlier verdict in nation’s interest, and order a stay for the proceedings going on at present in the additional Session Judge, Mr A M Thipsay’s court at Mazgaon, Mumbai. The Supreme Court took the extraordinary decision of transferring the Best Bakery case out of Gujarat to the Mumbai High Court in April 2004, as a sequel to the petitions of Zaheera Sheikh, Teesta Setalvad and her NGO, Citizens for Justice and Peace and also the National Human Rights Commission. I am convinced that full facts are not brought before the Honourable Supreme Court by the petitioners Teesta Setalvad of the Citizens for Justice and Peace and Zaheera Sheikh, an illiterate, poor young girl of 19 years, who has said that her signature was taken by Teesta Setalvad by cheating her by telling that the(petition) papers, in English language, which she has not learnt, were regarding her Best Bakery property. The other petitioner, the NHRC had not applied its mind to ascertain the truth and the bonafides of the above petitioners and was swayed by the media reports as it did many times in the past as explained in this application in later paragraphs. Since the case is extremely sensitive, which is clear from the fact that Justice Mr A M Thipsay, in charge of the retrial, is receiving threats and attempts are made to poison the accused persons in Mumbai jail, I think, it is my humble duty to bring before the Court the following facts, which have tremendous bearing on this case, and which I know well and pray for their due consideration by the court. I am to bring to the notice of the Honourable Supreme Court that the credibility of the above persons and the above organisations is doubtful taking into consideration the following facts, which might be unknown to this Honourable Court so far. I submit : (1) Zaheera Sheikh, Teesta Setalvad and her organization, Citizens for Justice and Peace and the National Human Rights Commission are not reliable, trustworthy and their credibility is very low and thus their affidavits submitted to the Supreme Court might be also so. I, therefore strongly feel that the Honourable Supreme Court has erred in its verdict of transferring the Best Bakery trial outside Gujarat. The media carried out an extra-judicial trial in a sub-judice matter and I am afraid that the Supreme Court Judges have also unknowingly been swayed by it. I have therefore submitted arguments to vindicate this statement also. (2) Zaheera Sheikh has turned hostile very frequently. She is a poor girl of only 19 years and very susceptible to fall a prey to monetary allurement and /or bribe. It cannot be said without investigation by impartial enquiry that only her recent turning hostile after the Supreme court verdict in April 2004 makes her unreliable but not that before the verdict. Zaheera Sheikh has alleged that Teesta Setalwad, her associate, industrialist Raees Khan and her organization Citizens for Justice and Peace had kept Zaheera as hostage, in confinement for seven months, without allowing her to see her mother and doctor and threatened to kill her and compelled her to tell lies in the court for the sake of religion ( “ tumko kaum ke liye zooth bolana padega”) . Zaheera has said that she would not speak untruth in the holy month of Ramzan. Zaheera Sheikh’s allegations are extremely serious in nature and must be thoroughly investigated by an impartial agency. The enquiry may be conducted by the CBI or a Special Investigation Team ( SIT ) monitored or headed by a retired Supreme Court or High Court judge selected by a panel of leaders of the ruling party and the opposition party in the parliament (3) Though the allegations were not made so far in a court, Teesta Setalvad approached the Mumbai High Court for an anticipatory bail and approached the Supreme Court also following which the SC has issued notice of Contempt of Court to Zaheera, the Gujarat Government and the NHRC. The fact that Teesta Setalvad asked for anticipatory bail reveals her guilty consciousness and the fact that the allegations were so serious that she could have been arrested under 153 A or any other column or act of the IPC. Now, Sehrunissa, the mother of Zaheera, too, has alleged during the retrial in Mumbai Court of Justice Mr A M Thipsay on December15, 2004 that Teesta Setalvad and her assiciate Raees Khan had threatened her with death. It is not justice to disbelieve Zaheera and her mother when allegations are made against Teesta Setalvad and believe in them when allegations are made against Teesta’s opponents, without investigation and impartial enquiry. (4)The allegations made by Zaheera Sheikh and her mother, Sehrunnisa against Teesta Setalvad mean that Teesta Setalvad and her NGO, Citizens for Justice and Peace have misled the Supreme Court by willfully submitting false affidavits and have virtually manipulated the trial to suit their partisan political predilections. Under the law, giving or fabricating false evidence with the intent to procure conviction of capital offence punishable with imprisonment for life or imprisonment, is punishable under the Indian Penal Code. The extra judicial role of such an NGO, the Citizens for Justice and Peace, is dangerous. If criminal justice is sought to be exploited and abused in the above manner, an innocent person may go to the gallows making mockery of administration of justice in the country. 5) The credibility of Teesta Setalwad of the Citizens for Justice & Peace and members of the CJP as regards their honesty, integrity and sense for justice is very low. In justification of my statement I submit as follows: (a) Bringing Zaheera Sheikh and her family members to Mumbai by special car from Vadodara and keeping all the persons in confinement for 7 months in Mira Road flat and Versova flat is very expensive. Filing petition in the Supreme court is also a costly affair. Teesta Setalvad’s magazine “ Communalism Combat “ has very small circulation. The magazine is not visible in public libraries and stalls in public places. The NGO, Citizens for Justice and Peace has miniscule membership; it has not held any public meetings with large attendance; it holds, perhaps, only closed door meetings. To arrange press conferences is also very expensive. In the backdrop of this fact, there are doubts and suspicion regarding the sources of the huge funds required for the above activities of Teesta setalvad and her NGO,CJP. (b)Teesta Setalwad had joined Asghar Ali Engineer and Archbishop Evan Dias in blaming Hindutvavadi leaders, the BJP, the RSS etcetera in the St. Michael’s Church at Mahim on a Sunday, according to news in the Times of India of Sunday October 18, 1998 in the wake of rape of 3 nuns on September 22, 1998 in Zabua in Madhya Pradesh. Later on after the investigation it was found that the rapists were a gang, which included 12 Christians and a congressman, but no RSS men as alleged. The criminals are undergoing imprisonment now but Teesta Setalvad has no courtesy to apologise for making false allegation and maligning Hindu organisations. Teesta Setalvad is not a Christian and had no routine business to go to the church with Asghar Ali Engineer, another Muslim. The October 1998 issue of “Communal Combat”, edited by Teesta Setalvad has given news about the rape and blamed the Hindu organization for that. It is curious and very much suggestive that the concerned article about the incident is missing from the archives of the magazine and is not sent to me by e-mail as promised by concerned authorities of the magazine, despite reminder. The rape incident was used in subsequent elections in MP, Rajasthan and Delhi to malign Hindu organizations and the BJP. Christian schools had declared “bandh” in Mumbai and a Morcha of School children from Don Bosco school was taken. One should think whether school children should be used to protest rape. After the police investigation was completed and the Christian rapists were arrested, the media ignored the news about the rapists completely. This one incident, alone, is a concrete proof to show that Teesta Setalvad is an anti-Hindu activist and an anti-BJP politician and not a human rights activist as claimed. ( c )Teesta Setalvad wrote a book for teachers of the Don Bosco School, Borivli, Mumbai, and circulated it in the school, in which she criticized Shivaji Maharaj in many ways and referred to his caste. This was in September 2001.The fact is that Shivaji Maharaj is known and highly revered throughout the country and particularly in Maharashtra for fighting Moghal ruler, Aurangzeb, who had imposed Jiziya tax only on Hindus, and not for his cast. As a result, teachers and parents of the school children protested and the school authorities had to withdraw the controversial book intended to poison the minds of young children to fulfil her heinous design. Astonishingly, Teesta Setalvad had not got the names of the publishers and the printers of the book printed on the book to escape from the clutches of the law. Teesta had not taken permission of the education department to publish the book. Unfortunately no NGO came forward to take Teesta Setalvad to task for violating rules. ( d )In the article, THE POLITICS OF TEXTBOOK( the Times of India – 24-10-1999), Teesta Setalvad is reported to have said: “Textbooks in Gujarat call Muslims, Christians and Parsis foreigners. They detail the ills of Christianity, the greed of the Pope and the sensual pleasures enjoyed by the Catholic clergy.” All the above allegations of Teesta Setalvad are false. ( e ) When Laloo Prasad Yadav ordered an enquiry into the burning of the Sabarmati Express in Godhra, and when contacted by the ToI, Teesta Setalwad of Citizens for Justice and Peace said, “The railway ministry had earlier abdicated its responsibility of independently investigating the incident which was warranted under the Railways Act.” She stated that this inquiry was “long overdue”. (ToI- 3-9-2004). According to the article, “Godhra probe:Lalu is wrong“, by Arabinda Ghose in the weekly Organiser( 26-9-2004), it is clear that the probe ordered by the railway minister Lalu Prasad Yadav was illegal and politically motivated. One term of reference is to find our whether the karsevaks were traveling without ticket. This type of enquiry is never made,when accidents take place. The fact is that Laloo announced an enquiry into the train burning with a view to showing that the victims had burned themselves. Laloo and the media were trying to impress upon the people that since petrol was poured from inside the compartment and fire started from inside, the Karsevaks burned themselves. These persons do not realize that a few outsiders out of the mob of 2000 rioters could force their entry into the compartment and do the misdeed. ( f ) Teesta Setalvad,Javed Akhtar,Alec Padamsee,Anil Dharker and the NGO Citizens for Peace and Justice met relatives of those killed in the coach S-6 of the Sabarmati Express on 27 February 2002 after 20 months on 5-10-2003, pretended that they were the victims’ sympathizers, brought them to Mumbai, arranged a press conference in Mumbai and provoked them to speak against the BJP, the VHP and other Hindu organizations and yatras organized by these organisations. The Godhra victims were also used to demand ban on future Yatras in general and the proposed Yatra of March 15, 2003 to Ayodhya, in particular by Hindu organizations. That the yatra turned out to be peaceful proved that Teesta Setalvad’s demand was just an attempt to malign Hindu organization. CJP Secretary Teesta Setalwad said that a petition demanding transfer of the case outside Gujarat would be filed by the Godhra victims within the next few days, with the support of the CJP ( ToI – 6-10-3).It is to be noted that the Godhra victims did not do this. Communalism Combat, edited by Teesta Setalwad and Sahamat propagated an appeal to the Central government to stop Karsevaks going to Ayodhya on March 15 abusing Sangha parivar as communal and fascist. In Their press note names of Mahesh Bhatt, Javed Anand ( husband of Teesta ), Nikhil Wagle, Praful Bidwai, Shyam Benegal etc were written (Maharashrtra Times – 21-8-2002). In an appeal to UP chief minister Mulayam Singh Yadav and Dy. Prime Minister L.K. Advani, the CJP demanded ban on the October 15 Ratha Yatra alleging outbreak of communal violence and insecurity among the minority community ( FPJ – 14-10-2003). It must be noted that the VHP Yatra was very peaceful, despite provocation by organizations like the CJP. The ToI reported it as “flop”. ( g )Teesta Setalwad, secretary of the NGO, Citizens for Justice and Peace complained in her affidavit that prosecutors were either leaders or members of the RSS or the VHP in Gujarat. (ToI, Ind. Ex. and FPJ – 18-10-2003) This was improper, since the RSS and the VHP are not banned organizations. If objection to these organizations can be upheld on the ground that they speak for Hindus, then the bonafides of anti-Hindu CJP automatically become doubtful. Teesta Setalvad’s argumet amounts to mean, using the same yardstick, that the background of the Chief Justice, V.N. Khare, who had worked for Indira Gandhi, the Congress Prime Minister in the 1975 Corruption case, filed by Raj Narain, in which Indira Gandhi lost and was deseated in Parliament also makes him disqualified to consider the case. It must be noted that Teesta Setalvad had engaged the lawyer, advocate Mihir Desai, to plead for her and Zaheera, is anti-Hindu. He refused to plead for Zaheera Sheikh after she made allegations against Teesta Setalvad. If pro-Hinduism of advocates of one party in the litigation makes them unreliable or incredible or disqualified for the case, then anti-Hinduism of advocate Mihir Desai must also be considered so. It must be noted that Mihir Desai had attended a meeting at Prabhadevi, Mumbai in which the VHP, Bajrang Dal and the Sangh Privar were severely criticized for Zaheera Sheikh retracting her statements. ( h )Teesta Setalvad and her NGO, CJP were using the Gujarat riots to spew venom against the RSS, the VHP and the BJP by using a section of the media in their favour, though it is reported that some Congressmen, the ISI of Pakistan and some Islamic fundamentalists were also involved in the riots. This is clear from a few of the following news reports: ( i )The Godhra train carnage on February 27, 2002 was an “ act of terrorism planned at the behest of Pakistan to foment communal riots all over the country”, according to a study report. The study, conducted by a five-member team led by Justice D S Tewatia, former Chief Justice of Calcutta High Court, for the Council of International Affairs and Human rights, released in New Delhi described the Godhra incident as an act of international terrorism planned and executed in connivance with the jehadi forces. Haji Bilal, Mohammad Husain Abdul Rahim Kalota and a few more Congresmen were involved in the plan to burn the Sabarmati Express at Godhra ( FPJ- 27-4-2002, Navabharat, Hindi daily- 30-5-2002, Loksatta-27-4-2002). ( ii )According to Jamiat Ulama-I-Hind most Congress corporators actively participated in the riots.JUH secretary Farooqi has a list of 25 Congress leaders from Gujarat which included former Congress minister, a sitting MLA and a former MP. Farroqi acused Congress workers of committing sins of commission and omission during the riots.( ToI – 10-8-2003). ( iii )Teesta Setalvad herself had said in March 2002 that in the attack on former MP Ehsan Jaffery’s house, a Congress member was among the mob ( FPJ – 30-3-2002). (iv) The fact that Congress governments in Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Punjab refused to send police force to Gujarat, to control riots, though the Gijarat government was ready to spend full money for their deployment, shows that the congress was not interested in curbing the riots, but was interested only in making a political capital out of riots. ( j ) According to the editorial in the Free Press Journal Teesta Setalvad had come to access crores of rupees in the 1998 general election. In the editorial of the Free Press Journal dated November 5, 2004 again a reference to the suspicious sources of funding for multi-crore advertisements against the BJP in newspapers is made pointing out a finger to Teesta Setalvad. ( k ) Teesta Setalwad approached DCP, G.D.Pol in zone 5, Dadar, Mumbai and asked him to file FIR against VHP general secretary Praveen Togadia under sections 153A, 153B, 295A,298 and 505 for his alleged inflammatory speech at a meeting of the Rashtriya Vichar Manch at Nardulla Tank Maidan on March 16. ( ToI- 14-5-2003 ). The speech was not as alleged by Teesta and no untoward incidents took place after the speech. ( l ) Javed Akhtar and Alyque Padamsee and Vijay Tendulkar, all members of the CJP had congratulated Ashok Gehlot, the chief minister of Rajasthan, through a letter (IE-May 10,2003), for banning trishul and not allowing Togadia to enter Rajasthan though Court had allowed him to enter. According to a news (ToI- May 9, 2003), Additional district and sessions judge Ajay Kumar Jain, trident is not a weapon; and so he granted anticipatory bail to VHP activists accused of displaying trishuls, banned in Rajasthan under Arms Act. Thus the venom spit by above members of the CJP is an attempt to malign Hindus, their leaders and their organizations. It must be noted that these persons had never criticized “ Lathi rally” of Laloo Prasad Yadav in Bihar. (12-5-3-Indian Express ), the rally with bows and arrows of more than 1000 activists of Communist Party of India (Maoists) in Kolkata ( FPJ- 16-12-2004) and rifle rallies of Naxalites in Andhra Pradesh. ( m )Alyque Padamsee, an activist of the CJP, had said recently that he does not know Mumbai, but knows Bombay. He has no objection for renaming Calcutta as Kolkata, Madras as Chennai and Trivendram as Thiruanathapuram. ( n ) Vijay Tendulkar, an activist of the CJP, had said at a speech in Pune and then in Dapoli in Maharashtra in November 2003, that if he is given a gun, he would shoot Narendra Modi. This reveals the bonafides of the organization CJP. (o) At a press conference in Mumbai in February 2004, Asghar Ali Engineer, member of the NGO, Citizens for Defending Constitutional Democracy and Secularism, at a press conference, said in Mumbai “ BJP has polarized the country and came to power by attacking minorities, secularism and Indian pluralism” ( FPJ – February 26, 2004). All such utterances of members of the CJP reveal that it is an anti-Hindu, anti-BJP organization. ( p ) One can have freedom to have his views and have an organization, but to form an organization and pretend that it is citizen’s organization, a non-political and that also for peace and justice is certainly deception and cheating. I am to add that this organization is not registered under any act and its membership is not open for citizens though the word “citizen” is therein. I allege that it does not have any Constitution of its own. I pray the Supreme Court to take this into consideration and decide the bonafides of the organization “ Citizens for Justice and Peace”. ( 6) The credibility of the National Human Rights Commission is also very low. To justify this I submit the following: (i) The fact that the NHRC took suo motu action against the Gujarat government when the Gujarat police killed Ishrat Jahan Sheikh, the terrorist of the Pakistan based Lashkar-e-Toiba, banned in India and many other countries, and her two other associates in Ahmedabad on June 15, 2004 clearly shows that either the NHRC has prejudice against the Gujarat Government or that it does not apply its mind properly and commits grave errors. In either case the NHRC loses its bonafides and credibility in giving justice and safeguarding human rights of citizens. (ii) The credibility of NHRC received a severe blow when it was pulled up by the Kerala High Court in May 2001, while ordering status quo on a petition filed by the Kerala state against the order of the NHRC to give compensation of Rs 10 lakhs to an ISRO scientist, accused in spy case involving two Maldivian women in 1994 (iii) The NHRC did not take notice of the statement of a key witness, Lal Mohammed Sheikh, who turned up at the Circuit House, Vadodara, when the NHRC team was present there on July 8, 2003. He had refuted the allegations made by Zaheera Sheikh and her mother while sticking to his statement that those acquitted had, in fact, saved his life. It must be noted that even before the Additional Sessions Judge Abhay Thipasay of the retrial court in Mumbai, he continued to stick to his earlier words, unlike Zaheera, in whom the NHRC had full faith. (ToI- 9-7-03, 10-12-4) (iv) The NHRC, under the chairmanship of the former chief Jusice of the Supreme Court J. S. Verma had opposed the POTA, an act against terrorism without reading it, whereas the present chairman, Mr A.S.Anand, also a retired Judge of the Supreme Court, stated that POTA does have provisions to prevent its misuse, as soon as he took over as the chairman of the NHRC. Two persons can have different opinions. But can the same statutory organization, like the NHRC have different opinions? And what about the opinions of other members of the NHRC? Can they all not have a meeting to express one common opinion? The contradiction within the NHRC also makes it lose its credibility and bonafides. (v) The former chairman of the NHRC, J.S. Verma had opined that right to information exists according to the Constitution. But when I lodged 2 complaints of human rights violations to the NHRC it did not register them and did not reply and answer why one of the complaints was not registered, despite many reminders. In the case of one complaint, with registration no. Case No. 512/25/2004-2005/UC, which I sent on July 20, 2004 , the NHRC has not replied to my query sent on November 11, 2004, as to what follow up action was taken by the NHRC, since it was not shown on its website. (vi) The NHRC erred in ignoring that in many other cases, the accused were let off because witness turned hostile as in the Best Bakery case. For example in Dabgarwad mass burning case of Ahmedabad, in which eight Hindus were burnt alive and all the Muslim accused were acquitted. There are two other cases – of Signal Faliya and Safi school of Godhra – where the Muslim accused were acquitted. NHRC’a remark of “miscarriage of justice” may be applicable to many other gruesome cases. Trying to Transfer only the cases in which Muslims are victims shows the bias of the NHRC and amounts to creating a separate judicial system for Muslims, which is against the recognized accepted principle of secularism in the country ( FPJ- 15-7-3). (vii) The NHRC has initiated criminal cases against police officers, who were awarded gallantry awards by the President of India in recognition of their gallantry in fighting terrorism successfully in Punjab. The police officers had done their duty in fighting terrorism neglecting their children and families. (viii) In March 2003, Rajasthan police shot dead three workers of the VHP and injured 7 workers, when they were doing puja against rules outside a temple. The police could have used teargas shells to disperse the mob of workers instead of firing and shooting and killing them. Similarly in west Bengal, the police fired and shot dead some Ramsevaks in the same month. I complained to the NHRC on the 24 March 2002. But the NHRC did not register my complaint or reply to reminders why the complaint was not registered. (ix) On December 10, 2002, I complained to The Secretary, National Human Rights Commission, New Delhi about the story that I read on the website http://www.outlookindia.com/fullpopuptop.asp?fodname=20021202&fname=State+Gazatt e&sid=6 written by Amarnath Tewary in Outlook. It was about a most wanted criminal of Patna, the capital of Bihar State, Sultan Mia, who abducted a married woman, Kanchan Mishra, in broad daylight from the heart of the city, took her to a mosque and forcefully married her. The NHRC did not register my complaint nor did it give reply as to why it was not registered. However, the National Women's Commission took note of the complaint either suo motu or after somebody else lodged it. But, when a Pakistani woman, Shahnawaz, arrested for illegally staying in India without valid visa or passport, who was raped by a jail constable, attracted the attention of the NHRC, who immediately sent notice to the home ministry on July 29, 2002. ( x ) The NHRC had asked the Gujarat government to provide it with a list , community-wise, of persons killed in police firing and arrested. I sent a letter of protest to the NHRC highly objecting to it since it was against secularism and capable of dividing the people on communal basis and without any benefit. The NHRC did not reply to the letter. There are many instances as above, illustrating how the NHRC is harsh to securitymen, policemen, Hindus and soft towards terrorists, Pakistanis and Muslims. This is very important in the present Best Bakery case. ( 7 ) The credibility of the media, engaged in extra – judicial trial in the Best Bakery case, is also very low. To substanciate this, I submit as follows: (i) Former chairman of the Press Council of India and former Judge of the Mumbai High court, Mr P.B. Sawant disclosed that many of our journalists are on the pay - roll of international agencies. The agencies are out to destabilize the country. He was speaking at the annual general meeting of India Language Newspaper association’s 58 th annual meeting in July 1999. Though five years have passed, the situation might not have improved, it has in fact worsened. Mr P. B. Sawant said, a few years ago, the chief of the CIA, the American intelligence agency had stated in the American Senate with proof that the CIA had appointed some Indian journalists as their agents. He said, “the journalists write to propagate the views of their masters and Indian language newspapers follow them.” Most of the English language newspapers preferred not to take note of his speech for obvious reasons. In fact, they should have taken very serious note of the allegation, written editorials on it and initiated a debate if they had interest of the nation in their heart. This, automatically, vindicates what Justice P.B. Sawant had stated. (ii) The Honourable Chief Justice of India Justice R. C. Lahoti said during the Law Day function of the Supreme Court Bar Association on November 26, 2004 in Delhi that “Media is tarnishing the image of judiciary”. If a person with judiciary in his heart can say so, is it wrong if a person with the pride of Gujarat in his heart says that the “Media is tarnishing the image of Gujarat?’ iii) Former Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, Justice V.N. Khare said that he was very much anguished over the manner in which media “ scandalized” three judges of the Karnataka High Court by linking them to Mysore sex scandal without basis. He said he could not sleep for many days as a result. Now if the Honourable judges of the Gujarat High Court could not sleep as a result of transferring the Best Bakery case out of Gujarat, who is responsibe? (iv)The Chief Justice of the Lucknow Bench of the Allahabad High Court Justice S.H.A. Raza said in September 2001 that though freedom of expression is essential in democracy, the press must give importance to giving views and news in a balanced manner in nation’s interest( Navabharat- Hindi-24-9-2001). (v) Chairman of the Press Council of India Justice K Jayachandra Reddy made a veiled attack on the media for “biased” coverage of the Gujarat riots and asked it to “strictly adhere “ to the norms set by the Council. He asked the media to be “trouble shooters” and not “trouble makers” ( FPJ 7-4-2002). There are many other points to prove the low credibility of the media. 8 ) Gujarat High Court’s observation regarding “ Plot in Zaheera’s claims” . The Supreme Court has erred in not believing in the Gujarat High Court and transferring the case outside Gujarat. The fact that the Supreme Court has given notice to Zaheera and the NHRC about contempt of court following Zaheera’s frequently turning hostile in her depositions vindicates the Gujarat High Court’s contention that Zaheera was not worth relying upon. The transferring a case outside the High Court of a state is an extraordinary decision and must be not only on merits but also appear to have been on merits. The Division Bench of Justice B. J. Sethna and Justice J. R. Vora of the Gujarat High Court, in their judgement dismissing the appeal challenging the acquittal of 21 accused and seeking retrial, were critical of the role of the NGO, CJP. The bench had said, “ We are not prepared to believe that Zaheera turned hostile because she was threatened.” The Gujarat High Court bench had said, “ There seems to be a definite design and conspiracy to malign people by misusing this witness, Zaheerabibi, who is hardly 19 years old and can easily fall a prey to anyone and play into the dirty hands of anti-national elements.” The NHRC and the SC did not agree to the above contention of the High Court bench, but upheld that Zaheera’s turning hostile in the High Court was proper. Now since Zaheera has turned hostile, again, the fact creates doubts in her credibility and destroys the very foundation on which the Supreme Court’s verdict of transferring the case outside Gujarat was based. As a result, the Supreme Court should, now, I pray, review the verdict and stay the trial going on in Mumbai at present. ( 9 ) The Supreme Court has erred in criticizing the Gujarat High Court for making “ irresponsible remarks against activists, including Teesta Setalwad, and even against the NHRC.” This is clear from (i) activities of Teesta Setalvad as stated in my submissions above and (ii) serious charges made by Zaheera Sheikh and her mother against Teesta Setalvad for turning hostile and speaking lies for the sake of religion (“ kaum ke liye tuze zooth bolna hoga”), and the fact that the NHRC took suo motu action against the Gujarat government when the Gujarat police killed the Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorist Ishrat Jahan Sheikh and her two other associates in Ahmedabad on June 15, 2004. The NHRC had clearly exposed its prejudice against the Gujarat Government. It is this prejudice that made the NHRC demand the transfer of the case outside Gujarat. ( 10 ) After the verdict of the Supreme Court many competent senior lawyers and retired judges, at a discussion of their panel in a programme, criticized the judgement of transferring the Best Bakery case outside Gujarat. Many said that “ the Supreme Court was more emotional than judicial.” Many said that the verdict was “ not in accordance with the Constitution of India.” .K. T. S. Tulsi, former additional solicitor general of India, who was also the defence counsel in the case, alleged that due to the “media trial”, the SC judges had not allowed evidence to be presented before it by the state government or the accused , despite his appeals. The case has not been decided according to or on the basis of evidence. It may have been based on newspaper reports .” Senior advocate R. V. Bhasin said, “ The Best Bakery case is a mixture of law, facts and politics. The press should not be ridiculed, but if a SC judge is affected by media reports, then he does not deserve to be in that position.” Bhasin also added that the Supreme Court violated the Constitution of India. He criticized the judges’ reference to fiddling Nero. S. M. Soni, former justice of the Gujarat High Court said that the courts, instead of being swayed by media reports, should take punitive action against any interference with the judicial process. Soni also blamed the former Chief Justice of India heading the NHRC of not following the judicial norms by approaching the SC, instead of the HC, when Best Bakery accused were acquitted by a session’s court in Gujarat. He also added, “ The decision to transfer the case was not on grounds of merit or evidence.The case, instead of being transferred to Maharashtra, could have been referred back to the Gujarat HC.” ( ToI - 18-5-2004) ( 11) That the Supreme Court was swayed by the media reports is also clear from the fact that there were many similar cases when criminals were acquitted for lack of evidence. This was not considered by the SC. This was because the media did not consider such cases as it did in the case of Gujarat. For example, all accused in the Radhabai Chawl buning in 1992 case were acquitted. All the accused were Muslims in this case, and so the media did not highlight these and the anti-Hindu NHRC did not take suo motu interest in those. I have illustrated how the NHRC is anti-Hindu earlier. ( 12 ) The Vadodara fast-track court Judge H. U. Mahida, now retired, has challenged any court to convict anybody without evidence. He said he had not gone out of way to favour or oblige anybody in the case but had to acquit the guilty, simply for want of evidence. He clarified that unlike a civil judge, a sessions court judge had no inherent powers and he had to go only by the evidence placed before him during the trial ( FPJ- 10-6-2004). ( 13 ) In the backdrop of Zaheera Sheikh, turning hostile and accusing Teesta Setalvad, that she forced Zaheera to speak untruth in the court, some editors have remarked that the complete system of human rights and the Supreme Court are now on trial. What the editors have said may be the view of a large section of people and it must be noted that in democracy like that in India, the people are more supreme than the Supreme Court and therefore whatever decision the court takes must not only deliver justice, but also appear to do so. In case it rejects the petition, it must give sound reasoning to do so. Otherwise motives will be attached to the verdict. ( 14 ) My Prayers: (1) Order stay in the proceedings in the Mumbai court of additional sessions Judge, Justice Mr A M Thipsay. (2) Otherwise order enquiry into activities, funds, membership and accounts of the CJP and all aspects of Teesta Setalwad concerned with the case, including the allegation that Teesta Setalvad and her associate Raees Khan threatened Zaheera Sheikh and her mother as alleged. And then again proceed according to the findings. The enquiry may be conducted by the CBI or a Special Investigation Team ( SIT) monitored or headed by a retired Supreme Court judge selected by a panel of leaders of 2 major political parties in the parliament, since this is a matter, which can have grave consequences on the country. (3) If it is found that Teesta really threatened Zaheera to turn hostile which made the SC take unprecedented step of transfering the Best Bakery case outside Gujarat and thus humiliate the Gujarat High Court, she and her NGO, CJP must be given most severe punishment, according to law, in the interest of judiciary in the country. (4)In that case censure the NHRC for humiliating the Gujarat High Court and conceding the demand of the NGO, CJP, without carefully applying mind to the judgement of the Gujarat High Court. ( 5 ) Censure and take other punitive legal action against the media for carrying out extra –judicial trial and interfering with the judicial process, when the matter was sub-judice. ( 6 ) If Zaheera Sheikh is found guilty , she should be tried for turning hostile and for perjury, committed not only before the SC verdict in favour of Teesta Setalvad but also after the verdict against the interest of Teesta Setalvad. Yours most humbly, K. G. Acharya
Posted by: k.ram Dec 19 2004, 07:05 AM
How do I upload a pdf file? The content of this file relates to this thread and also to liberal propaganda thread.... [Added Later] Thanks Rajesh
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 19 2004, 08:18 AM
Uploading Ram's file. Just FYI when you click on "Add Reply" there is a text box to enter the file name you want to upload. There is also a "browse" button next to it to explore the files. Let me know if you are having trouble.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 19 2004, 08:23 AM
Also once you have uploaded the file then you can use the URL for that file everywhere else.. For example the file above can be accessed using the link below.. http://www.india-forum.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=24310
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 19 2004, 09:32 AM
I think this paper is important in understanding what happened at the time of the riots. From talking to people even before the asmita became common knowledge gujjus had arrived at the conclusion that the non-gujju TV media was out to prove that gujjus were murderers/rapists. Altho I have said this multiple times, doesnt hurt to say it one more time. The people who were moderates, who were really soft, women, children, everybody I talked to in gujarat would say the same thing, did you see what they did in godhra ? Watch that and then talk to us. This was on my telling them, guys what was going on was really bad and needs to stop. I couldnt find one person that echoed my views. Another thing, just imagine if somebody had filmed what happened at godhra and if that were shown on TV. Multipy what happened then * 1000 (atleast). Much of america's reaction to 9-11 is rooted in the live coverage of planes running into the buildings and what followed. You wouldnt believe the number of times that was shown on TV in the US followed by the towers coming down and the dust/debris enveloping manhattan. Unless you have seen that you cannot judge where americans are coming from.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 19 2004, 10:55 AM
http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/city/2004/december/99773.htm
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 21 2004, 03:17 PM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1163470,001301170000.htm
Posted by: bengurion Dec 22 2004, 08:14 AM
http://in.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/22best.htm Who is telling the truth ? bengurion.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 22 2004, 11:51 AM
http://us.rediff.com/news/2004/dec/22best1.htm
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 22 2004, 11:52 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/968273.cms http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/001200412222064.htm http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/nation/2004/december/99987.htm
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 22 2004, 04:15 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/968395.cms Is it clear to anybody what they are talking about ?
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 22 2004, 06:54 PM
User A_T on sulekha newshopper made this comment in response to the tehelka transcript above..
QUOTE
I am as confused as you all by this mess but let me try to summarise the dirrent reports I read. 1) Madhoo Shrivastav is BJP MLA of that area, his cousin Chandrashekhar(Bathoo) is a congress corporator and Nasir is a NCP politician not related but known to them. 2) During post godhra riots, Nasir is accused in a case of muslims killing hindus but Madhoo or Bathoo are not directly accused in Best Bakery. 3) Madhoo and Bathoo While not directly accused(perhaps for lack of evidence) are sympathetic to the Best Bakery accused. 4) Lal Mohammed the owner of shop in front of Best bakery and a witness is aalleged to have acted as front man for Madhoo/Bathoo(who supposedly are close and pro-accused irrespective of their party affiliations) to buy of witnesses(including Zaheera). 5) Nasir(the NCP politician and a muslim accused of killing hindus in another riots case) supposedly worked a deal with Madhu/Bathoo to arrange for muslim witnesses in Best Bakery to turn hostile in return for hindu witnesses in his case to turn hostile. 6) Tehelka used Nasir with or without his knowledge to record conversations with Bathoo and Madhoo(both separately). The audio of tapes is poor and the editing has left transcripts too confusing to be understood. Some of the implications(not proofs as in each case the person on tape is talking of what some other person said/did and the other person may not agree to it) are that zaheera actively sought money from all parties and was paid by madhu/bathooo/Testa. 7) In response to implications of tehelka tapes: a) Testa says she never paid anything and an accusation by Madho is not relevant(Fair enough.). b) Nasir says he was tricked into making the tapes but does not comment on validity of statements on tape(needs to be interogated by Court). c) Zaheera says its a conspiracy by Bathoo and testa against her and Madhoo but she does not know madho and did not take money from anyone(leaves a lot of unanswered questions like what does bathoo have against madhoo to make one wonder if she is making a coverup story on the spot hense the inconsistencies). d) Madhoo does not make any comments(Fair enough for now but needs to clarify his version of the tapes sometime atleast before the court). e) Bathoo says the entire tapes are doctored by tehelka(in which case he needs to clarify sometime what the original conversations were atleast before court). Still unanswered questions that puzzle one are: 1) Are the three parties BJP, NCP, Congress involved in the affairs of its members(Madhu, Nasir, Bathoo) or is it just the personal lives of low level party members. Is Madhoo unsatisfied with his position in a BJP govt which implies the party did not need him to do the alleged coverups. 2) Are Madhoo/Bathoo together as cousins or antagonists as rival parties(zahera alges latter but all other evidence says former). 3) If Madhoo/Bathoo wre not directly accused(in original burning) why did they put in 18 lakhs of their personal money for their sympathies to accused/pity on hagling muslim girl. Nasir may be in the mess to clear up the case he was accused in but what is the motivation of shrivastava cousins. 4) What was the whole truth on unedited tapes filmed by Tehelka and if he was investigating all allegations of bribing zaheera did he also try to run a sting on Testa(she was also accused of bribing/thretening zaheera. 5) Were each of Zaheera's flipflops motivated by greed(bribery) or fear(threats). Is she the wolf or sheep. Till all these issues are resolved I'd like to reserve my private opinion and I dont trust any agency to resolve this satisfactorily. Police was not effective in producing concrete evidence of people they accused. Testa/Madho/Bathu/Nasir are personaly involved in the mess and cant be trusted as neutral. News media have allready displayed their baises and confusion with flipflops rivaling Zaheera. NAnavati commision setup by BJP has allready been accused by antiBJPites of not being fair. CBI has shown its helplessness in political cases like Marad and in pulling back from prosecution of Satish petrol pump sharma. I feel not only is the situation in riots confusing(as I have allways offered as an explanation of lack of prosecution of riot cases) but also the analysis of situation after it. With legal principles like let a 1000 murderers free but not punish 1 innocent this confusion leads to non-delivery of justice but then I dont see a better alternative(Judicial activism by biased people leads to more mess as proven in this case). I feel this is a bit similar to Democracy is the worst form of gvt except all the other ones. Trusting legal courts is the most ineffective way of ensuring justice except for all other forms of justice(media trials, vigilante justice, NGO's etc.)
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 22 2004, 11:04 PM
http://www.thestatesman.net/page.news.php?clid=1&theme=&usrsess=1&id=63762
QUOTE
GANDHINAGAR, Dec. 22. — BJP MLA Mr Madhu Srivastava seemed unruffled at the latest Tehelka expose. “Bakwas” (baloney) is what he told the media in Vadodara today. He announced: “I do not recognise Zaheera, I haven’t talked to her and I will not give her 18 paise or Rs 18. All lies.” “Show me talking to her, the voice (on the CD) can be anyone’s,” he added. The BJP MLA maintained that the latest expose was an effort to “tarnish my image, and that of my party.” He accused the media of wanting masala (spicy stories). State BJP president Mr Rajendrasinh Rana said: “There is a conspiracy, let the law take its own course.” Mr Chandrakant Srivastava ‘Battoo’, Mr Srivastava’s cousin, who figures prominently in the Tehelka CD said he was “trapped”. Presently a councillor from the Congress party, Battoo said that a Nationalist Congress Party councillor Mr Nisar Bapu, who along with his son, was tried for murder after the Godhra riots, talked generally to him and led him on to a conversation which was recorded. The conversation, according to Battoo took place “a month or more ago” and was “a non-serious one”. He claimed that he was “led-on” by Mr Nisar Bapu. Interesting turn: Teesta Human rights activist Ms Teesta Setalvad, described today’s proceedings as “an interesting development”. “I am waiting to see what sort of impact it would have on the judicial process,” she told The Statesman in Mumbai. “We have approached the SC seeking a full inquiry. I cannot say anything more.”— SNS
I think Teesta was involved in this sting.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 22 2004, 11:50 PM
http://ww1.mid-day.com/news/nation/2004/december/100028.htm
QUOTE
Newspaper releases video alleging that the BJP paid Zahira Shaikh to turn hostile; Gujarat politicos dismiss expose as smear campaign; and in Mumbai, Zahira dodges the Rs 18-lakh question
First of all from the xcript is not at all clear. Also I dont understand how "BJP paid Zahira Shaikh" - the two brothers, one is from BJP while the other is from Congress - so how is this "BJP paying Zahira" again ? dry.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 23 2004, 08:17 PM
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1041224/asp/nation/story_4168256.asp?headline=Shield~sought~after~video God Almighty ! Can anybody believe this ?? rolleyes.gif
QUOTE
Ahmedabad, Dec. 23: Vadodara municipal councillor Nisar Bapu, who had facilitated Tehelka’s probe into the alleged bribery of Best Bakery case witness Zahira Seikh, has sought police protection after allegedly receiving threat calls from BJP MLA Madhu Srivastava’s cousin, Chandrakant Bhathu. Bapu alleged, in his application to Vadodara police commissioner Sudhir Sinha, that “some Opposition leaders’’ are threatening him and his life is in danger. Sinha confirmed that he had received the “application” but said it was very vague. The police official said he had, therefore, sent it to a police inspector to find out if there is a threat to the councillor’s life. Bapu claims that Bhathu has called him at least four times, threatening him of dire consequences and saying he would frame the councillor in false cases. “They can do anything. They are unscrupulous people and can go to any extent.” That is why, the councillor said, he had not stepped out of his house today. Bhathu, who suspects that Bapu has planted a spy camera in his office, said he called him up after the Tehelka expose was aired but denies having threatened him. “Yes, I called him up on his mobile as I wanted to know why he did it to me. We were like friends, though he belongs to the Nationalist Congress Party,’’ he said. Bhathu calls himself a saviour — he says he saved Zahira’s life. “Nisar Bapu is just a goon who was jailed for murder during riots. How can one threaten him? If he was really threatened, as he claims, he would have not been able to visit the municipal corporation after his acquittal in a murder case,” said Bhathu.
Posted by: k.ram Dec 26 2004, 06:15 PM
Muslim body outcasts Zaheera from community [URL=http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IEH20041224110523&Title=Top+Stories&\]http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?I...+Stories& Topic=0&BHOPAL:~Masjlis-e-Shura,~one~of~the~apex~decision-making~bodies~of~Musli ms,~on~Friday~declared~Zaheera~Sheikh,~a~[/URL] Saturday December 25 2004 00:00 IST PTI BHOPAL: Masjlis-e-Shura, one of the apex decision-making bodies of Muslims, on Friday declared Zaheera Sheikh, prime witness in the Best Bakery carnage case, a "dissembler". It ousted her from the minority community for "tarnishing its image by making false statements", All India Muslim Tehwar Committee said in Bhopal. "Zaheera was declared 'munafiq' (dissembler) and ousted from the Muslim community," Committee Chairman Ousaf Shahmiri Khurram said. "The decision to outcast Zaheera from the Muslim community was taken unanimously in view of Tehelka newspaper expose, at a meeting of over 500 representatives from different organisations, including Muslim Personal Law Board member Maulana Yaseen Usmani and Ulema Council member Maulana Abdul Sattar," Khurram said. "It was found that Zaheera had been acting against preachings of Quran by continuously making false statements in the Best Bakery carnage case," he said. "Her actions had tarnished the image of Muslims before the people of this country," he added. "Muslim clerics and the office-bearers of different organisations were of the belief that Zaheera had not followed the principles of Islam and Quran. She had insulted it by lying on different platforms," the Committee Chairman said. Consent of the Muslim Personal Law Board was also taken before such a decision was passed, he added.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 27 2004, 04:53 PM
http://www.samachar.com/features/241204-editorial.html
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 28 2004, 02:20 PM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/971731.cms
QUOTE
NEW DELHI: The Best Bakery carnage case will go down in history for two reasons other than the sensational change of testimony by key witness Zahira Sheikh. First, the Best case pushed the Supreme Court to expand the scope of criminal jurisprudence by ordering the retrial, though the accused were acquitted both by the trial court and the Gujarat HC. In addition to this, the venue of the trial was shifted to Mumbai from Gujarat. Fresh prosecutors were given the responsibility to pursue the case against the 21 accused. Secondly, Zahira's sudden change of stance has underlined the need to beef up certain Sections of the Indian Penal Code that deal with false testimony. The inherent problem in prosecuting a witness who has changed stance is that perjury proceedings can start only at the end of the trial. However, lawmakers feel that the court handling the case should proceed with the perjury proceedings against the erring witness without waiting for the trial of the main case to end. The landmark Bakery judgment had given hope to victims. But now the ray of hope may be extinguished forever. In a judgment on November 23, 2004, the apex court termed the Best Bakery case an extraordinary case. The court was convinced that the prosecutor was trying to shield the rioters. It also found that the trial was a farce and the witnesses were intimidated. "It is in the aforesaid extraordinary circumstances that the court not only directed a de novo trial of the whole case but made further directions for appointment of a new prosecutor with due consultation of the victims," said the SC. Thus, the Best Bakery case judgment cannot be applied to all cases against the established principles of criminal jurisprudence, said the Supreme Court.
Yes it is a watershed in legal history as Teesta's judgement has taken precedence over all others.
Posted by: Viren Jan 3 2005, 07:39 AM
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=60205 - Talveen Singh
QUOTE
Let us start with ‘‘insinuations’’. There were no insinuations. I was clear that I found Teesta’s ‘‘high-flying’’ ways questionable. When Zaheera Sheikh charged that Teesta had exploited her for monetary gain I remembered that people often wondered about Communalism Combat’s funding and saw it as an NGO with an agenda. Inquiries with the Charity Commissioner of Maharashtra revealed that they were not listed as an NGO, so I rang Javed Anand and asked why not. He said it was because they were a private limited company. I asked him outright if he would like to answer the charge that Communalism Combat was funded with Saudi money. No insinuation there. The reason I asked was because an editor I know was once asked to edit a magazine on communalism and refused when it was revealed that money for the enterprise was coming from the Gulf.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 10 2005, 09:34 AM
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200501101831.htm?headline=SC~orders~probe~to~find~truth~behind~Zahira~and~Teesta~claims
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 11 2005, 05:58 PM
Letters from pioneer
QUOTE
The Muslim lethal plan- full text of the article: Planned with precision This refers to N Jamal Ansari’s article, “Conspiracy of silence” (January 3), which is a diatribe against Hindus and betrays the writer’s frustration with Zaheera Sheikh. Ironically, those who had conspired against the Hindu community in Gujarat, and the State Chief Minister Narendra Modi and his administration, are themselves complaining about a devious plot having been hatched against them. Indeed, with her statement, Ms Sheikh has turned the table on the members of her own community. As usual, Mr Ansari’s article is dotted with words like “fascist”, “saffron brigade”, “genocide”, “Hindutva propagandists”, with names of leaders like VD Savarkar and KB Hedgewar thrown in for good measure. However, as always, his ire is drawn against the wrong people. The latest revelation by Tehelka has apparently been engineered by the rattled secular brigade that ran for cover when Ms Sheikh charged her “patron” Teesta Setalvad with intimidation and forced confinement. It is well known that the methods adopted by the portal (and now a tabloid) for its “sting operations” were not entirely above board. The quality of the film in which two unidentifiable persons are shown in conversation is very poor. Then, there is no direct exchange of money and the poor girl is nowhere in picture. It is, therefore, a risky proposition for the secularists to just count on the Tehelka tape to vindicate their claim that Ms Sheikh was paid to recant on her earlier statement. Finally, Mr Ansari laments that Best Bakery was torched with humans inside the building. I ask him, were those burnt alive in Godhra carnage not humans? If the Best Bakery case was a national disgrace then should what happened in Godhra or Akshardham be glorified? Horrifying as those incidents were, there was one vital difference between them. While the Best Bakery was one of the sporadic incidents that was a part of the wave of riots that swept across Gujarat, Godhra and Akshardham were meticulously planned and executed with cold precision. BK Verma Rajendra Nagar, Lucknow
Posted by: Mudy Jan 11 2005, 06:49 PM
http://teesta.blogspot.com/ biggrin.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 14 2005, 02:49 PM
Hmmm wonder who this "didi" is ... http://www.outlookindia.com/pti_news.asp?id=273212
QUOTE
The defence in the Best Bakery case today urged the trial court to conduct an enquiry into the "improvements" in the evidences given by five eyewitnesses who have supported the prosecution. Advocate Vinayak Bichoo, a defence lawyer in his application, alleged that all the five eyewitnesses have similar ommissions and contradictions in their evidences recorded by the court from their statement given to the Vadodara police and said that they had all met a particular "didi" or "madam" before appearing for recording of their evidence. Speaking to the reporters outside the court, Bichoo said that he was alleging that those five eyewitnesses were tutored. "The prosecution maintained that they were staying at state guest house Visava but the eyewitnesses themselves mentioned different places of stay. All these need to be looked into," Bichoo said. The prosecution would be replying on the application on January 18. Meanwhile, defence advocate D S Jambaulikar also filed an application seeking that the prosecution provide them a copy of all those documents, on which it intends to rely for examination, much in advance. His application followed questions being posed by prosecution before prime witness Zaheera Sheikh on the basis of her statement given before Nanavati Commission.
Posted by: samudra_gupta Jan 17 2005, 07:14 AM
Hi Indian Railways , under lalu sometime back constitued a so called "high-level" committe to investigate the Godhra train carnage. Scum have said , train burned by accident in their interim report. Notice the timing of the interim report. 1.Bihar elections around 2.Just a few/couple of days , a(number) muslim(s) organisations declared support for lalu. Thats All.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 17 2005, 08:16 AM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1202066,001301170000.htm another commie with rotten mind and soul
QUOTE
The high-level inquiry into the blaze in a train in Godhra in which 59 persons were burnt to death that led to subsequent violence in Gujarat in 2002 has found that it was an "accidental fire". "It was not a deliberate attempt… and there is no evidence of any conspiracy," the interim report said. "With the elimination of the 'petrol theory', 'miscreant activity theory' as well as the ruling out of any possibility of 'electrical fire', the fire in S-6 coach of Sabarmati Express can at this stage be ascribed as an 'accidental fire'," Justice UC Banerjee Committee, appointed by Railway Minister Lalu Prasad, said in its report. Retired Supreme Court judge UC Banerjee, the chairman of the panel set up to investigate the incident, submitted the report to Railway Board Chairman RK Singh.
QUOTE
The Committee said that on the basis of available evidence, it was "unbelievable that 'Kar Sevaks' (to the extent of 90 per cent of total occupants) armed with 'Trishuls', would allow to get themselves burnt without a murmur by miscreant activity like a person entering S-6 coach from outside and setting the coach on fire".
They were kids and women. How can one can say they were armed with even 4 inch trishul. They are talking as if they were armed with AK-47. devilsmiley.gif http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1202273,001301170000.htm
QUOTE
Even as an interim report of a government-appointed inquiry termed the Godhra train fire in which 59 people were killed was an accident, an investigating officer testified on Monday that the torching was pre-planned.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 17 2005, 08:31 AM
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=40851&headline=Godhra~report~disgraceful:~BJP
QUOTE
He alleged that the interim conclusions ignored the entire trial and was aimed at benefiting "those who committed the crime." Jaitley however said the report had no legal basis as a criminal trial was already on and a Commission of inquiry was probing the case. "The choice of the Judge (U C Bannerjee) thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif was of the political establishment. The credibility of such investigations without public hearings, expert reports, witness and cross examinations is less," he said.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 09:10 AM
I guess this is "law taking its own course".. rolleyes.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 12:18 PM
http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=40857 Man is this sick or what ???
Posted by: Mudy Jan 17 2005, 12:41 PM
QUOTE
Probe proves Sangh's role in riots: Laloo Man is this sick or what ???
I thought it was Railway investigation from where this idiot came with this theory. They call themselves secularist and labeled others "racist" Moron. mad.gif
Posted by: Pradeep Jan 17 2005, 02:00 PM
QUOTE
QUOTE The high-level inquiry into the blaze in a train in Godhra in which 59 persons were burnt to death that led to subsequent violence in Gujarat in 2002 has found that it was an "accidental fire". "It was not a deliberate attempt… and there is no evidence of any conspiracy," the interim report said.
NPR news (now run by the British Bull$h!t Corp) was already airing this today, with some desi dorkette endorsing it, saying "the fire led to rioting by Hindu groups leading to over a thousand deaths, mostly of muslims, mostly unchecked for several days". The western media is sure to be drooling all over it. This wooden handle (Laloo) on this axe (commie/paki/muslim) will chop down the entire tree of Hinduism one day!
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 03:05 PM
http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050117-101043-5664r.htm
Posted by: Mudy Jan 17 2005, 03:08 PM
QUOTE
Muslims get clean chit in India train fire - By Harbaksh Singh Nanda
Now they should release all so called innocent and pious muslims from jails. Who will trust Indian law and SOB politicians?
Posted by: Viren Jan 17 2005, 03:44 PM
So did you all expect the "verdict" by Laloo plant to be any different? Laloo himself was calling and threatening witness, links exists in this very thread. BTW, what's up with the 2 FIRs against Laloo by the EC? Is Laloo eligible to contest elections or proxy Rabri will do the needful?
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 03:52 PM
I think EC has called him guilty. And I am sure he thinks that is really cool.
Posted by: siddhartha_shukla Jan 17 2005, 07:56 PM
QUOTE
Blow to interim report as terror links emerge and... SIT backs conspiracy theory RK Misra/ Gandhinagar The UC Banerjee Committee's interim report claiming that the fire that engulfed coach number six of the Sabarmati Express was an "accident," flies in the face of facts gathered by the Special Investigation Team (SIT) of the Gujarat Police, confessional statements of the accused persons and eyewitness accounts of dozens of passengers and Railway staff. Even as Justice Banerjee released his interim report on Monday on the last day of filing of nomination papers for the Assembly polls, fresh disclosures from Gujarat raised serious questions on how the commission drew such conclusions. Delivering a serious blow to the credibility of the Banerjee Committee report, the SIT probing the case and DySP Noel Parmar made separate claims and revelations about terrorist links and a well-planned conspiracy behind the train fire. During his cross-examination by advocate Mukul Sinha before Justice (retired) GT Nanavati and Justice (retired) KG Shah, Noel Parmar said that terrorist links had emerged in the train carnage case. On being asked about the terrorist link Parmar said: "Terrorist links have emerged in this case. But I cannot reveal the name of the terrorist organisation as the case is under investigation." Mr Sinha then urged the commission to tell Parmar to reveal the name of the terrorist organisation, but the commission said that the official need not reveal the name of the organisation as the investigation was still on. Then came the point-wise detailed rebuttal of Justice Banerjee's findings by the SIT, which ruled out the "accident" theory and asserted that the fire was result of a well-knit, pre-planned conspiracy. While refusing to comment on the interim report of the Banerjee Committee, Special IGP Rakesh Asthana, head of the SIT of the Gujarat Police probing the case said that in the course of the investigations, so far sufficient, oral, documentary and scientific evidence has been collected which goes to show that this act was a pre-planned one. During the investigations accidental fire has been ruled out, he added. Asthana said that local conspiracy has been established while the larger one was being investigated. "We are looking into the movement of members of certain terrorist organisations and certain hawala transactions but have yet to conclusively establish links between the incident and the sequence of events thereafter and these organisations and deals. It would be premature to talk about it at this stage," he added. While the Gujarat Congress welcomed the interim report, the state BJP president Rajendrasinh Rana termed it as politically motivated and given with an eye on the Bihar elections. Asthana said that the investigations revealed that the accused entered into the S-6 bogie through the vestibule connecting S-6 and S-7 bogies along with canisters of petrol, poured the same inside the coach and jumped out through the rear doors. It was then ignited from outside by pushing burning rags through the broken windows. The FSL experts, who were called to assist the investigations had collected the material from the scene and after examination arrived at the conclusion that a minimum of 60 litres of petrol was used as the fire spread and engulfed the entire bogie in less than ten minutes. Forensic examination has also established forcible entry through the vestibule. The material used inside the bogies by the Railways is fire retardant and self-extinguishing and as such the possibility of accidental fire is ruled out. Technical reports in this regard obtained from experts of the Railways during investigations have confirmed this aspect, he added. Meanwhile, reacting to the Banerjee Committee report a senior official of the state Directorate of Forensic Sciences said: "Approximately 60 litres of petrol could have been used to torch the coach of the Sabarmati Express. The dfs has done its job scientifically and thoroughly. Moreover, it is important to know the grounds of the technical observations made by the commission". Casting a doubt on the commission's prompt report, the official said: "Is it possible to make all these finding in just two or three months?....How can there be any fire without any source? The detailed report of the Banerjee Commission will have to be studied thoroughly before saying anything more on its observations," the official said. Incidentally, Justice Banerjee, who must have been aware of the SIT finding, since parts of it has been widely reported in the past, has provided no explanation to refute the FSL claim on petrol being used for setting the coach ablaze. Asthana said that the findings of the Gujarat FSL have not been contradicted by any other FSL or the central FSL and police investigations as well as FSL reports reveal that the bogie in question was set on fire from inside only and the details to this effect have been mentioned in the chargesheets. "This was done in pursuance of a criminal conspiracy and fire was not an accidental one," he said. Asthana pointed out that 104 people have been arrested in connection with the case so far including those under POTA and 92 of them have been chargesheeted while a closure report has been filed against 12of them for lack of evidence and 27 are still absconding. 76 of the 92 are in judicial custody while 16 have been released on bail. A number of accused have gone to special courts, high court, Supreme Court challenging the results of the investigations, seeking bail but in the bulk of the cases, after evaluating evidence, the courts have rejected the bail petitions. He also pointed out that police officers connected with the investigations have yet not been examined by the Banerjee panel. In fact, as per schedule they were to depose before it on Tuesday. Additionally documents, as called for by the panel, are under process of being sent to the committee. Even the FSL experts who assisted the investigations have also not been examined so far, he added.
http://dailypioneer.com/indexn12.asp?main_variable=front%5Fpage&file_name=story2%2Etxt&counter_img=2
Posted by: kedar bhandary Jan 18 2005, 10:50 AM
QUOTE (Pradeep @ Jan 18 2005, 02:30 AM)
NPR news (now run by the British Bull$h!t Corp) was already airing this today, with some desi dorkette endorsing it, saying "the fire led to rioting by Hindu groups leading to over a thousand deaths, mostly of muslims, mostly unchecked for several days". The western media is sure to be drooling all over it. This wooden handle (Laloo) on this axe (commie/paki/muslim) will chop down the entire tree of Hinduism one day!
When life hands you a lemon then learn to make lemonade out of it. I am no symphatizer of the Saffron or Hindutva brigade. Nor do I hold the entire Muslim community responsible for the actions of a few (ditto with Hindus). Nor do I support vigilante justice system or tit-for-tat retaliaiton. However, even I am outraged by this "investigation" by U.C.Banderjee. Without a doubt there was arson involved in the train fire at Godhra. This finding is nothing but an attempt by the likes of Kangress-Laloo-JNU brigade to kiss up to the criminal elements within the Muslim community and put the 58 people who died in Godhra fire in vain and paint them as culprits instead. Laloo has handed the Hindus a lemon. They can cry about it or make lemonade and BJP-RSS can revive their fallen fortunes. They need to get proactive and counter-attack Laloo and company and put them on the back-foot. No doubt it won't be an easy fight but freedom and justice doesn't come easily in life. You have to fight for it. Make every Hindu realize that when he is the victim, the current UPA goons will take his death for granted.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 18 2005, 11:31 AM
QUOTE
Does Lalu's man know what he is saying? Pioneer News Service/ New Delhi The Bhartiya janata Party on Monday hammered on glaring loopholes in the Justice UC Banerjee Committee report on the February 2002 Godhra train fire that killed 59 passengers and raised serious questions relating to appointment, juridiction, functioning and reccommendations of the committee. Accusing the Banerjee Committee of "repeating the accident theory" of Railway Minister Lalu Prasad by "glossing over evidences supporting conspiracy hatched at a guest house in Godhra" for setting afire the train, BJP general secretary Arun Jaitley released a set of 10 questions which raised serious doubts about the "accident" theory. Observing that the BJP did not expect a retired judge to function independently, Mr Jaitley and party's parliamentary party spokesman VK Malhotra said it was strange that the judge did not consult with the investigating authorities before giving his stamp to the interim report that said the fire on S-6 coach of the Sabarmati Express was accidental. Mr Jaitley said the BJP did not attach much importance to this report because it would "at best have some propoganda value" in the coming elections in Bihar. It would be of "no consequence" otherwise as it "did not have legal basis or statutory status," he observed. Meanwhile, former Railway Minister and senior Janata Dal (U) leader Nitish Kumar shot off a letter to the Election Commission from Patna seeking to prohibit the use of the committee's report on the Godhra train blaze in any form in the February Assembly polls. He termed the committee's report as "politically motivated and aimed at giving advantage to Mr Lalu Prasad Yadav in the Assembly elections." The BJP pointed out that Justice Banerjee was not the choice of the Supreme Court but of the Railway Minister. The party also found it fishy that the interim report was given ahead of the Assembly elections in three states although the committee had its tenure upto March three this year. The party has also taken exception to Justice Banerjee addressing the media when the normal practice was the Government releasing the report after it was submitted. Questions have also been raised about the Railway Minister getting an 'advance copy' of the interim report because Mr Lalu Prasad had "translated and circulated" the summary of the report in Hindi from his Patna residence. "Do you expect anyone to believe your statement that you were unaware of the fact that elections to some state Assemblies are being held," the BJP asked. Confronting Justice Banerjee with first of his ten questions, Mr Jaitley wanted to know if he had considered the evidence that two meetings took place at Aman guest house at Godhra where the "conspiracy was hatched to set the bogie afire." Mr Jaitley also asked if Justice Banerjee had considered the evidence of purchase of 140 litres of petrol which was stored in the same guest house where the conspiracy was hatched. "Did you consider the evidence that one of the conspirators Salim Badam was verifying the movement of the Sabarmati Express at 1.30 am on February 27, 2002 from Godhra railway station and since the train was running four hours late the conspirators reassembled at the Aman guest house," Mr Jaitley asked. In another poser, Mr Jaitley asked Mr Banerjee if he consider the evidence that chain pulling was simaltaneously executed from various compartments to stop the Sabaramti Express so that the mob at the platform could indulge in stone-throwing. " Did you consider the evidence of workers who have deposed about the transportation of petrol from the Aman guest house to the station?" Mr Jaitley asked. Mr Jaitley asked if Justice Banerjee considered that the conspirators entered bogey no S-7 and cut open the vestibule cord between bogeny no S6 and S-7 and then the entired quantity of petrol was poured in bogey no S-6. " Did you consider the facts the burning rags were thrown inside?" Mr Jaitley asked. Attacking his report as politiically-motivated , Mr Jaitley asked if Juctice Banerjee realised that accident theory was first propounded by the accused in the case and then repeated by Railway Minsiter Lalu Prasad while announcing the appointment of the committee. "You may have merely stamped the Lalu theory. If there was a minor fire under the seat due to an accident why did the passenger not get out of the bogey and save their lives?" he asked. Mr Jaitley wanted to know if Justice Banerjee realised that a committee appointed by the railways cannot go into the issue of 'conspiracy' angle as law and order was a state subject. Also, prevention and detention of crime was a constitutional responsibility of the state Government. The BJP asked Justice Banerjee whether he ''knew '' that the interim report amounted to ''extra-constitutional interference'' in the administration of justice since the trial is pending before the appropriate court. ''Do you know that the function of the committee and its recommendations will eventually act as the defence of culprits,'' it further queried. The rest of the questions that followed were: "Why did you accept to head a departmental inquiry of the railways on a matter where a criminal trial and a commission of inquiry are pending?" "Why was the Chief Justice of India not consulted to suggest the name of a retired judge? You were the choice of the Railway Minister?" "Why did you give an interim report during the election period even tough your term is extended till March 3, 2005?" "Why did you address a Press conference to release your report particularly when a judge only submits his report and it is upto the Government to release it at an appropriate time?" "How did Lalu Prasad get an advance copy of your report since a translated copy of the summary of your report in Hindi was releasd by him simultaneously from his residence in Patna?" "Do you expect anyone to believe (as you told a TV channel) that you are unaware of the fact that elections to some state Assemblies are being currently held?"
Posted by: Mudy Jan 18 2005, 11:36 AM
QUOTE
Injustice Banerjee The Pioneer Edit Desk What is Justice UC Banerjee trying to suggest? Does he want us to believe that on February 27, 2002, kar sevaks inside Coaches S-6 and S-7 of Sabarmati Express developed a collective suicidal urge and immolated themselves? Is Justice Banerjee of the view that the action of the "self-immolating" kar sevaks of Godhra should be a subject for anthropological study, similar to the birds of Jatinga in North Cachar who fly to their deaths every year in one of nature's most abiding mysteries? If his bizarre interim report on the burning alive of 57 kar sevaks were taken to its logical conclusion, fatal, mass self-hypnosis would appear to be the only explanation. He has, no doubt, sought to soften the blow by calling it an accident. Was it also an accident, Mr Banerjee, that over 1,000 Godhra residents of a particular community gathered just outside the railway station at a place called Signal Falia that day and threw stones into the carriages breaking every glass pane, probably facilitating the propulsion of an inflammatory object from outside? The accident must be truly mysterious as the ex-Supreme Court judge, handpicked by self-styled secular messiah Lalu Yadav to "probe" the carnage, has ruled out electric short-circuit as probable cause of the fire. We are left in no doubt that Justice Banerjee is an honourable man. So what if he chooses to go public with his "findings" just 15 days before the first round of voting in Bihar? So what, if the Minister who sponsored the inquiry promptly holds a news conference to give out more details to the media than the ex-judge is willing to reveal? So what, if the honourable former member of the country's highest judiciary refuses to submit himself to questions from the media at his Press conference? Those who are raising fingers at the veracity of the report and questioning the timing of its publication must be truly unmindful of judicial honour. However, we are bewildered by the direct contradiction of Justice Banerjee's "findings" by the Special Investigating Team probing the carnage. Contrary to the mysterious accident theory propounded by the ex-judge, investigators on the ground told the Nanavati-Shah Commission that, in fact, confessional statements of the Godhra accused pointed to a major conspiracy involving terrorists. Mr Lalu Yadav's unilateral and controversial decision to order a Railway Ministry probe into the incident when another judicial commission was at work already, had been questioned by many for being a politically motivated exercise. This newspaper had wondered whether the Lalu-sponsored commission's report would be pre-scripted to serve the wily Bihar leader's electoral machinations. Some had even suggested that it would be inappropriate for any past or present judge to agree to serve on Mr Yadav's commission when other fellow retired judges were already on the job. But none of this deterred the honourable Mr Banerjee who promptly responded to the scam tainted RJD supremo's call. The "findings" of the commission have confirmed all apprehensions. The heartening aspect, however, is the ridicule with which the report has been greeted by almost everybody. Even the Congress is muted in Mr Banerjee's praise, embarrassed, no doubt, by the brazen political mileage being derived from it by its somewhere-ally, somewhere-rival UPA partner. From Mr Lalu Yadav and his ilk one expected no better. But we believed there was something called judicial conscience that would stop short of making fun of Godhra victims and their families. Maybe that was a misplaced expectation
Posted by: siddhartha_shukla Jan 18 2005, 12:46 PM
This is frigging ridiculous.I am opening a new thread to collect information about the Godhra incidence.Please search through the media reports and post it there.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 03:54 PM
http://www.bjp.org/Press/jan_1805.htm BJP making lemonade. I dont know how far this will go.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 06:18 PM
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=62949 Cant we call a spade a spade ? Why do we have to resort to this equal-equal BS ?
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 06:41 PM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1202668,001301170000.htm
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 19 2005, 08:45 AM
Why be surprised at Bannerjee report ---------------- Lets look at hsitory of congress and commies and seculars 1. Gandhi called the Moplahs as 'God Fearing' 2. During all the communal riots leading to 1947, congress kept white washing muslims, as noted by Ambedkar 3. During Direct Action Day, the commie press blamed hindus ( per Sita Ram Goel, who was a commie at that time ) 4. The psecs whitewashed the ethnic cleansing of the kashmiri pandits 5. The psecs whitewashed muslim rioting in Assam in 1992 ( Ever heard of the suppressed Justice Pathak report ) 6. The psecs whitewashed Ali Mian and a whole host of islamists 7. The psecs whitewashed Ishrat Jehan 8. The psecs whitewashed Marad 9. The psec press circulated the false story of the kidnapped muslim girl in Godhra 10. In 1992 Mumbai riots, the congress ordered the cops not to fire at muslim rioters
Posted by: Viren Jan 20 2005, 08:50 AM
Repost of a post dated Sept 10th 2004:
QUOTE
'Lalu threatening witnesses in Godhra probe' Amarnath Tewary/ Patna The ghost of Godhra and Gujarat riots appears to have shifted its attention towards Lalu's Bihar as the political masters of the state have started haunting each other from here. Barely two days after Railway Minister Lalu Prasad Yadav's barb that the BJP and the RSS have got scared of the Godhra probe by Justice UC Banerjee, national vice-president of BJP Shushil Kumar Modi hit him back on Tuesday alleging that Lalu Prasad "is threatening and trying to influence the Godhra probe". The BJP leader even produced documentary proofs of the allegations made by him. "Railway Minister Lalu Prasad is now threatening the witnesses produced before the Justice Nanavati Shah Commission constituted to probe the Gujarat incidents," charged Modi while making reference of a confidential letter written by a witness Dr MS Dahiya, assistant director of Forensic Science Laboratory [FSL] of Ahemdabad. Ever since Lalu Prasad has become Railway Minister he has been trying to influence the Godhra probe and it has become his only full time occupation, alleged the BJP leader. The FSL assistant director who had made an investigation into the Godhra incident and subsequently prepared two reports over it, has written in a confidential letter that "on June 6, 2004 I had received a phone call at around 10.30 hours from the DG, RPF who asked me to talk to the Union Railway Minister in Patna on telephone numbers 0612-2211324, 2222741. I, however, request him to route all such instructions through my department. At around 11 hours, I received another phone call wherein the caller identified himself as the Union Railway Minister, Lalu Prasad Yadav and he informed me that the copies of two reports of mine in relation to the incident of burning a coach of Sabarmati Express at Godhra were lying before him and that he wanted to discuss the same in details to better understand the same." Dr Dahiya further mentioned in his letter, "he (Lalu) inquired whether I could come over to Delhi for the discussion. I requested him to send a formal requisition to the Government of Gujarat." "Being a Railway Minister in the Government of India, Lalu Prasad can not telephone a state Government officer directly and that too regarding such a sensitive matter like Godhra," Mr Modi wondered. Since, Godhra matter is pending in the state POTA court and Dr Dahiya is one of the main witness and has already deposed before Justice Nanavati Commission, it was "improper and unethical" for the Railway Minister to call him on this matter, said the BJP leader while talking with the media persons. The BJP national vice president also charged that by instituting an another probe panel into the Godhra incident, RJD leader Lalu Prasad has raked up the issue once again to win the Muslim votes in the soon to be held Assembly elections in the state. "Lalu Prasad has been fast losing his grip over his Muslim electorates he once again raised the issue of Godhra to gain political mileage out if it," charged Modi. There was no need of any other probe panel since Nanavati Commission has already entered last leg of the inquiry, said the BJP leader. "Earlier even the Supreme Court had rejected a plea of some people about the irrelevance of the Nanavati commission," Mr Modi added. The BJP leader also said that he would write a letter to the Nanavati commission requesting him to summon Lalu Prasad and Dr MS Dahiya both to get the whole truth and how the Railway Minister tried to influence the probe witnesses. "Lalu has been only citing the selective parts of Forensic Science Laboratory report to suit his points for argument and he never bothered to go through the second part of the report which clearly says that approximately 60 litres of inflammable liquid was poured from the rear side (berth No 72) between the two doors," Mr Modi further added. "The RJD leader did not pass a single statement even after seven days of the Godhra incident in which altogether 59 Kar Sevaks had perished but when the Gujarat incident happened he started making comments on it to placate his slipping Muslim votes," alleged the BJP leader. Mr Modi also said that the BJP would discuss the matter and make the future strategy in its Bangalore meeting scheduled to begin from Wednesday. When asked about to comment on recent Laluspeak on BJP leader Lal Krishna Advani as being an international absconder in the murder conspiracy of Jinnah, Modi said that he could not stoop to such a low level that Lalu has reached.
http://203.200.89.17/archives2/default12.asp?main_variable=STATES&file_name=state1%2Etxt&counter_img=1&phy_path_it=F%3A%5Cdailypioneer%5Carchives2%5Csep904
Posted by: k.ram Jan 22 2005, 03:33 PM
US advocacy group wants apology from BJP Suman Guha Mozumder in New York January 22, 2005 http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jan/22suman.htm
QUOTE
The Indian Muslim Council-USA, an advocacy group working to protect and promote pluralist and tolerant values of the Indian society, has demanded an unconditional apology from the Bharatiya Janata Party for blaming Muslims for the 2002 Godhra train fire. The fire on the Ahmedabad-bound Sabarmati Express at Godhra on February 27, 2002, was blamed on local Muslims and it set off days of rioting in Gujarat where more than 2000 people were killed. Expressing satisfaction over the interim report of the government-appointed inquiry committee on the Godhra massacre, IMC-USA noted that the report prepared by Justice Umesh Chandra Banerjee, a retired Supreme Court judge and head of the committee, has concluded that the train fire was "accidental". The judge also dismissed suggestions that inflammable liquid could have been thrown on to the train from outside, citing what he called "a preponderance of evidence" that the fire in coach number S-6 originated in the coach itself without any external input. "This is simply another piece of evidence that goes on to prove that the Gujarat genocide was planned and orchestrated by the BJP," blink.gif said Dr Shaik Ubaid, president, IMC-USA. "Muslims were never responsible for the tragedy at Godhra, yet they were hunted and killed for weeks by the government of Gujarat," he said. Ubaid called for the release of about 100 Muslims who are still under detention for alleged involvement in the fire.
Posted by: siddhartha_shukla Jan 25 2005, 08:08 PM
A little old article from sulekha. http://sulekha.com/expressions/column.asp?cid=179723
Posted by: k.ram Jan 28 2005, 03:35 PM
Sangh behind Godhra conspiracy theory: Activists (?) 'Jholawalas' http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1218645,0008.htm
QUOTE
Claiming that Justice UC Banerjee's interim report on Godhra incident "confirmed" that there was no conspiracy by local Muslims to burn the train, a group of activists on Friday alleged that the conspiracy theory was manufactured by the Sangh Parivar as a pretext to launch an anti-Muslim "pogrom" in Gujarat. "The State Government arrested over 200 Muslims under the draconian POTA on the charge of being part of the conspiracy to burn the train," the group - ANHAD - said in a statement. Accusing the then Railway Minister Nitish Kumar of "compliant" behaviour to "appease" BJP, it said the JD-U leader failed in his duties and obligations by failing to investigate the horrific train accident. The group that included Anand Patwardhan, Asghar Ali Engineer, Tarun J Tejpal, S Irfan Habib, Sabnam Hashmi and Shabnam Hashmi, demanded that all those put behind the bars on the charge of burning the train "be immediately released and suitably compensated for the torture and humiliation suffered during this long period". "It is also urgent to attempt to formulate provisions so hat the likes of Modis cannot usurp the due process of law to pursue their divisive politics", the statement said.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 30 2005, 11:35 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1004983.cms
QUOTE
Govt rubbishes Amnesty report AHMEDABAD: The Gujarat Congress, on Friday demanded that former prime minister and veteran BJP leader Atal Bihari Vajpayee be called to testify before the Nanavati-Shah commission probing the Gujarat riots, in the context of his remark that a section of the BJP workers were involved in the riots. Spokespersons, Hasmukh Patel, Arvind Sanghvi and Girish Parmar said in a release that he should be examined also in the context of his remark during the riots that "Modi practise rajdharma." Meanwhile, the Modi government rubbished the Amnesty International report on the 2002 Gujarat riots, which was made public on Thursday. In a three-page rebuttal attributed to a "spokesperson of the home department," it said that the report had ignored the state’s relief work after the riots. In defence, it also stated that "Gujarat had a history of communal sensitivity and there had been communal riots in other regimes, and these riots have no connection with the party in power." Reacting to its observation on sexual violence against women, it stated that the special cell for women and children had received 1116 complaints, none of which were of sexual harassment. Stating that the report had taken into account only newspaper reports and testimonies by a "few victims," it said that the state had registered 4,526 cases where 17,348 Hindus and 7,356 Muslims were arrested.
IIRC, I have heard this name Girish Parmar before in context of some 'independent' organisation. Cant remember where. Will post if i remember it.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 30 2005, 11:39 AM
http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily/news/features.php?action=fullnews&id=66279 I agree with this statement. I think Govt of Guj should setup a website with information on how Gujarat handled the riots. How many people were arrested, how many bullets were used, how many people died, how many hindus and muslims died, how many policemen died, etc..
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 30 2005, 11:42 AM
http://sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13659010
QUOTE
Ahmedabad: In a significant development, the Gujarat High Court on Saturday restrained activities of the Central POTA review committee after admitting two appeal filed before it challenging the constitutional validity of the committee. The division bench of Justice B J Sethna and S B Dave admitted the two appeals on Saturday filed by separate parties affected by the Godhra train carnage and Akshardham temple terrorist attack case three days ago. The petitioners challenged section 2 (3-5) of POTA repeal Act 2004, that confers powers in favour of the review committee by granting primacy to its opinion over the view of the courts constituted under CrPc. The petitioners argued that once a court had taken cognizance of any offence then the review committee cannot over ride its course so this (review of POTA cases by the committee) is not constitutionally maintainable. The court issued rule and the next date for hearing would be decided later. The development of this petition assumes significance as the POTA review committee is scheduled to visit the city on Monday.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 30 2005, 12:26 PM
Arindam & others, I have moved the posts pertaining to Godhra in the thread opened by Siddharth called "Godhra - the truth".
Posted by: Mudy Feb 9 2005, 11:52 AM
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1234934,001301170000.htm
QUOTE
The prosecution in the Best Bakery case on Wednesday received a jolt when a witness turned hostile in a special court in Mumbai saying he had not seen the violent crowd torching the bakery on March 1, 2002. Kanchanbhai Mali, the 43rd witness, went back on his deposition before the Vadodara court by telling the special court in Mumbai that he had not witnessed any incidents of arson on the ill-fated day. Mali, whose residence is barely 40 feet from the bakery, had told the Vadodara court earlier that he had seen a group of persons setting fire to the bakery. However, he told the court on Wednesday that his deposition before the Vadodara court was a hearsay and not an eyewitness account. Earlier, prime witness Zaheera Sheikh and her brothers Nafitullah and Nasibulla had turned hostile. Hearing Zaheera's plea the Supreme Court had ordered retrial of the Best Bakery case in a special court at Mumbai.
Posted by: k.ram Feb 16 2005, 09:14 AM
QUOTE
http://www.dawn.com/2005/02/16/top13.htm 'US should deny visa to Modi' By Our Correspndent WASHINGTON, Feb 15: A bipartisan working group at the US Congress is asking Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to deny visa to the chief minister of the Indian state of Gujarat, Narendra Modi. Mr Modi is the planned chief guest of the 2005 Annual Convention and Trade Show of the Asian American Hotel Owners Association in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, to be held on March 24 to 26. Many Indian hotel-owners in the US are from Gujarat and strongly support the BJP government in the Indian state. The Institute on Religion and Public Policy, a Washington-based advocacy group for religious freedom, is circulating a letter among prominent individuals and rights groups asking them to oppose Mr Modi's visit and urge the US State Department to deny him a visa.
Posted by: k.ram Mar 2 2005, 08:43 AM
QUOTE
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 02:58:03 -0500 (EST) From: Indian Muslim Council Subject: Request Hardball's Chris Matthews to withdraw from AAHOA convention If you cannot view this e-mail, please visit: Request Hardball's Chris Matthews to withdraw from AAHOA convention honoring Narendra Modi March 01, 2005 Assalamu Alaikum / Peace be with you Narendra Modi, the architect of the 2002 Gujarat pogrom has been invited by his supporters to be honored at the convention of the Asian American Hotel Owners association in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. His arrival coincides with the third anniversary of the Gujarat massacres in which more than 2000 Muslims were brutally killed, hundreds of women and girls were raped and sexually mutilated and over 150,000 were ethnically cleansed. The surviving victims continue to be persecuted in Gujarat. The Coalition Against Genocide (CAG), of which IMC-USA is a founding member, is campaigning against Narendra Modi's felicitation in US. Narendra Modi's crimes are being whitewashed by honoring him in a convention attended and supported by US lawmakers and celebrities. A major step in the campaign against Narendra Modi involves reminding the attendees of the aforementioned convention that he is an accused in heinous crimes against humanity. Chris Matthews of MSNBC Hardball program is scheduled to give a keynote address at the convention. He has been asked by the Coalition Against Genocide to withdraw from the AAHOA convention unless Narendra Modi's invitation is cancelled. We have already sent a dossier on Narendra Modi and the fascist Hindutva movement to Mr. Matthews. Please contact Chris Matthews and politely request him to withdraw from the AAHOA convention. Also ask him to report on the funding of ethnic cleansing in India by the extremist groups, based in US, which are supporting Narendra Modi. ACTIONS REQUESTED [ deleted not to promote muslim agenda] TALKING POINTS Narendra Modi is the Chief Executive of the Gujarat State Government that was complicit in the massacres and rapes of thousands of people as documented by Amnesty International and the Indian National Human Rights Commission (NHRC). The Supreme Court of India's bench statement has rebuked him calling him a 'modern day Nero' for his actions during the pogroms. The 2002 Gujarat pogroms specifically targeted women and children and used sexual mutilation as an ethnic cleansing tool. Narendra Modi's Government is still persecuting religious and ethnic minorities in Gujarat and was criticized by the US State Department of International Religious Freedom report. State that we understand Mr. Matthews has been misled by AAHOA. He should withdraw from the convention so as not to stand in support of massacres and persecution of minorities and for the sake of his reputation and credibility. Suggest that he invite the American family members of the victims of the Gujarat pogroms and the representatives of the Coalition Against Genocide and do an in-depth show on the pogroms. Request him to expose the insidious way the Hindutva forces are gaining influence in the US and point out that Narendra Modi is a member of one such violent and bigoted Hindu nationalist organization called the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS - National Volunteers Corps) that was inspired by Nazi Germany and the Italian fascist party.
Posted by: Viren Mar 2 2005, 08:50 AM
I hope these IMC led red and pink brigades start uninstalling MS Windows and other Office products from their machines too because Microsoft recently announced some tie ups with Gujarat Govt rolleyes.gif
Posted by: Viren Mar 4 2005, 08:54 AM
In the list of all those ex-Presidents, ex-Babus, ex-Judges etc who find their consicience after they've left the office, add one more name: ex-President K R Narayanan who made it to the top solely by his virtue of birth. Here he's dissing ABV with his http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=65725 tirade in a Malayalam magazine edited by Congress MLA P.T. Thomas. Could it be he's getting back to ABV for not extending his tenure in Rashtrapati Bhavan? Does this dork know that the division of army was sent to Gujarat smack in the middle of the largest mobilization in the sub-continent i.e., Operation Parakram. That too within 16 hours of the start of the riots! Rajiv Gandhi (PM), PVNR (Home Minister) didn't call the army for whole 5 days in Delhi, nation's capital!! mad.gif
 




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