India Forum Archives
Saturday, February 05, 2005
  Christian Missionary Role In India - 2
Posted by: acharya May 16 2004, 06:42 PM
Continued from older thread'distorted'~history~ Check this page on SIFY , It has a link to a conervsion agenda which is abusing Hinduism It wont be long when all the Indian webpages will start having these links. Spread the message
Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha May 19 2004, 01:54 PM
Help for
Posted by: G.Subramaniam May 20 2004, 06:58 AM
EU Ambassador advocates forced separation of Romani children from their parents - No adequate reaction from the EU Commission to racist statements against Roma by its representative - Join our call for Mr. van der Linden’s removal by either electronically signing the protest by pressing (takes 40 sec) or by replying to this letter with your name, address and eventually position/organization. (it may be possible if you are behind a firewall to have an error when trying to send the electronic version) On the very day of Enlargement, when the reunification of the European continent and of its citizens was to be celebrated, the Dutch TV broadcasted statements by one of the European Commission's Ambassadors which make the European Union's promise of non-discrimination and equality among its citizens look like an empty shell. Mr. van der Linden, Head of the EC Delegation to Slovakia, proposed the forced separation of Romani children from their parents in order to resolve the "Roma problem". Romani children should be brought up in boarding schools where they would be continuously exposed to "the system of values which is dominant in our society", Mr. van der Linden said. In order to break the likely resistance of the parents, Mr. van der Linden proposed to offer them financial incentives. The result would be a new generation of Roma, that "will fit better into the dominant society, they will be able to truly contribute to the growth of the economy of the dominant society." These statements are unacceptable, not only as they are in breach with fundamental international Human Rights conventions such as the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and the EU's own basic principles. They are also unacceptable, because they clearly express the idea to eradicate the Romani identity and culture through the brain-washing of Romani children and their alienation from their parents and community. The European Union and the Commission as its executive arm have long been telling the accession countries of Central and Eastern Europe that they need to safeguard and respect the rights of their minorities, including the Roma. Today, it looks as if the European Union is actually sharing the same approach towards the "Roma problem" as it has been done by socialist governments in Central and Eastern Europe and their post-socialist successors consisting of either forced assimilation or exclusion. This is why a clear sign is needed from the side of the European Commission that Mr. van der Linden's views are not in line with the philosophy of the institution he represents and that this kind of statements is neither tolerable, nor tolerated. The European Roma Information Office has asked the President of the European Commission, Mr. Romano Prodi, to remove the Commission's Ambassador to Slovakia from his post. So far, there is no official reaction from the Commission to this request. Statements made by the spokesperson of Romano Prodi during the Commission's press briefing on 14 May, make us however believe that Mr. van der Linden will not face any major consequences for his undue talk. Accordingly, Mr. van der Linden was simply requested not to give any longer interviews "on this topic". Mr. van der Linden's racist statements were played down as "an unfortunate choice of words in an interview which was otherwise quite good and talked about important things we [the European Commission] are engaged in this respect.". It is now upon us, Romani and non-Romani Human Rights activists and citizens concerned about the respect of basic freedoms, to make clear that there is no such a simple escape out of statements that express a strong racist bias and assimilatory intents towards Roma. Generations of Roma have become victims of assimilatory practices; an estimated between 228 000to 500 000 were killed in the name of the purity of blood and culture during the Second World War. This is why we kindly invite you to sign our protest. It will be sent to the President of the European Commission, Mr. Romano Prodi, with copies going to the Delegation in Bratislava. Mr. van der Linden needs to be sacked and apologies need to be addressed to the Romani communities throughout Europe. We are supposed to be citizens with the same rights as any other citizens of Europe. Full info at European Roma Information Office 17 Eduard Lacomble 1040 Brussels BELGIUM Tel : 0032 27333462 Fax: 0032 27333875 E-mail :
Posted by: k.ram May 20 2004, 12:14 PM
ADVERTISEMENT Orphans First Work in India Grace Home Since the 1980s, Grace Home has provided a home, education and close church family life to hundreds of orphans and poor children. We plan to expand this ministry, teaching the children English and a trade. They would then be equipped to go to Bible school and train to evangelize India. Pray for larger facilities, good water, English teachers and practical skill teachers, equipping them for the future. Pastor Philip Samuel also feeds and teaches the Bible weekly to many street children living at the railway station. Many of the children in the Grace Home have been rescued from a life of labor. Their poverty-stricken backgrounds forced them to have to work to feed the remainder of their family. Their time in Grace Home presents a great privilege as they are educated and learn about Jesus. However, many of them have to return to their villages by age thirteen or so. It is our prayer that we can provide education to keep these children up until eighteen, and then send some of them to Bible School to become evangelists for India. Kisse Lindy, a GGWO team member, with the DeMeos helping street children in Bombay. A future orphanage for these children is being planned. There are about 20 children who are invested in regularly. Orphans First is helping provide food and clothes and some most basic education for these children -- with the prayerful prospect of expansion. Slum children in Bombay. These children are beggars, uneducated, and could be taken as slaves or child prostitutes at any time because of their desperate situation. Orphans First seeks to help these children -- and many others like them.
Posted by: Mudy May 30 2004, 08:13 AM
Pastor arrested for trying to convert Hindus Bhubaneswar, May 30 (IANS) Police in Orissa have arrested a pastor and his associate for allegedly trying to convert Hindus to Christianity, officials here said Sunday. Pastor Subash Samal and Dhaneswar Kandi were arrested in Kilipal village in the coastal district of Jagastsinghpur, 80 km from here. Police have charged them with hurting the religious sentiments of others and with violating laws that prohibit religious conversion by fraudulent means. Samal and Kandi had allegedly offered Rs.50,000 (more than a $1,000) to a man to change his religion, a senior police official said. Kilipal, which has a population of about 500, has some 17 Christian families. The rest of its population are Hindus. The village also has around 200 Dalits. Samal, a member of the underprivileged community, converted to Christianity about 10 years ago and was pastor in the village church. Police said he was persuading other people of the village to convert to Christianity. Because of his efforts, about eight Dalit families adopted Christianity last year. In the first week of February, however, a group of Hindu residents re-converted them to Hinduism at a religious ceremony. The group also tonsured seven women at the time. The incident created ripples after Samal and his associates brought the tonsured women from Kilipal to state capital Bhubaneswar to highlight their suffering before the media. On the basis of complaints by the women, police arrested six people from the village. Local Hindu leaders opposed the arrest, describing the action as partial. They demanded the arrest of Samal and Kandi, claiming they had reportedly converted more than 17 people through fraudulent means in the last two years. "Samal and his associate were absconding and we could not arrest them earlier," a senior police official said. "We arrested them on Saturday when they came to a police station to record their statement in the incident." Orissa has witnessed numerous violent incidents over religious conversions in the last few years, including the killing of Australian missionary Graham Stuart Staines and his two minor sons by a group of Hindu fanatics in 1999.
Posted by: k.ram Jun 1 2004, 06:45 AM
Valle Crucis student makes India his stuffed cause 05/31/2004 By Frank Ruggiero Jackson Yates Although Jackson Yates has never been to India, he hopes his efforts will be appreciated… and cuddled. Yates, 9, is collecting clean, used stuffed animals to send to the children of India. Having always held a love for stuffed animals, Yates wishes to let other children share that joy. “It’s just a really good cause,” said Yates, a third-grader at Valle Crucis Elementary School. “Just think of the price of a stuffed animal here. It’s four times that price [in India]. This is so they can call just one thing their own.” Last Christmas, the children of Eluru, India, and its surrounding vicinity each received a stuffed animal, courtesy of the Christian Youth Service Center (CYSC). The CYSC is a service-oriented, faith-based missionary organization based in Boone and Eluru. Its direct link to India lies with John and Esther Kancherla. For 35 years, Kancherla served as a senior official in the government of India, before he resigned “in response to God’s call” and started a full-time ministry in 1987. He closed the family grocery store in Eluru and converted it to a CYSC center, which supports other various activities, such as a Christian library and vocational training in computers, tailoring, embroidery and typewriting, serving children, youths and adults alike. The ministry covers a 200-mile radius, reaching into rural areas and “giving the good news of the gospel,” Kancherla said. The Indian CYSC center supports a rural clinic/dispensary, the foundation of which was funded by a Boone family. The center also supports evangelical training schools, a widow’s home and a church built with donations from residents of Martinsville, Va. International relations are important with CYSC in its mission to convert members of the Hindu religion to nondenominational Christianity. In India, Kancherla said two percent of the population is Christian and cannot afford to have separate denominations, adding that Christians there often face religious and social persecution. Kancherla is a firm believer in self-support, and moved to Boone in 1993 to work and raise money to further support the ministry. He and Esther lived in Boone for six months, and then return to India for another six months and so on. When in Boone, First Baptist Church allows the Kancherlas to reside in the Bingham house for missionary visitors, Kancherla said. “With the cooperation of our local friends, we’re able to carry on,” he added, During one of Kancherla’s stays in Boone, gospel singer and local resident Allen Yates sang at Laurel Fork Baptist Church, where Kancherla regularly attended service. The two met and became fast friends, and Kancherla saw Jackson Yates grow up. Now, both are proud of young Yates’s first foray into missionary work. “Jackson’s association with this ministry is to collect stuffed animals that should inspire many children, as well as older people in many various churches,” Kancherla said. “He’s taking up the challenge and working to help the children of India.” Kancherla, 72, feels that Yates’s efforts are evidence of God’s work in enlisting the old and young to serve. Last year, over 900 stuffed animals were distributed to children in and near Eluru, and Yates is already a third of the way towards that goal. He even donated a couple from his own collection. “He’s just always had a giving heart and wants to see their reaction,” Allen said. Their reaction, Kancherla said, is obvious joy. “This is where we’re going with it,” Kancherla said. “As we hand out those little animals to the children, they’re spreading the gospel. We’re attracting kids with the animals and they’re responding.” Allen manages a singing ministry that travels throughout the state. In addition to the Christian message, he’ll be spreading the word for the stuffed animal project, hoping to gather support from all reaches of North Carolina. Currently, the animals are being kept in the Howard’s Creek Church storage area, awaiting shipment in August. Shipping is another issue, all together. The cost to ship is about $35 to $40 per box of stuffed animals, and Yates is relying on community concern to aid this effort, as well. Donations may be dropped off at Blue Ridge Truck and Car Mart, located at 110 East King Street in Boone. Interested parties may make contributions, stuffed or monetary, up till August. At this point, Yates is not yet ready to travel to India. However, he plans to send another bunch of stuffed animals there next year, and the year after.
Posted by: k.ram Jun 3 2004, 09:06 AM'souza_indiaelection_0405.htm India Election is Good News for Christians By Stan Jeter CWNews May 21, 2004 The recent election upset in India is welcome news for Christians. After seven years in power the Hindu nationalist party is out. That could mean greater freedom for the Gospel. – The recent election upset in India is welcome news for Christians. After seven years in power the Hindu nationalist party is out. That could mean greater freedom for the Gospel. The ouster of the Bharitaya Janata party is good news for India's Christians. During the years the Hindu nationalist BJP ruled India, persecution against Christians increased. Some say the BJP is responsible for it. John Devriess heads Mission India, based in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Devriess said, "The BJP has been, in a sense, responsible for the increasing persecution of Christians and other minorities by looking the other way." One of the groups supporting the BJP is primarily responsible for the active persecution. A big part of the BJP agenda was a national anti-conversion law. Such laws had already been passed in some states, which make it difficult for Hindus to convert to another religion, even if they want to do so. And such laws have been used to punish Christian ministries. Joseph D'Souza is president of the All India Christian Council. Last march, he told CBN News why the BJP feared conversions to Christianity by India's lower classes. D'Souza said, "We know when people turn to Christianity they are informed, they are educated, they can decide for themselves and they will not continue to be what they are today. They will be enlightened and they will vote according to what is right for them and right for the constitution of India. So there is a fear that, with masses of people turning to Christianity, they [the BJP] cannot have the political clout they used to have." Since the election, an anti-conversion law in Tamil Nadu State has already been repealed. Devriess says that means greater freedom for the Gospel and its blessings. He added, "We have an opportunity for harvest in India for the next four years, that not only is going to bring millions of disciples into God's Kingdom, but also is going to lay the groundwork for stability and peace such as no other movement can do." Mission India has been working among India's lower classes for 30 years. Its native missionaries teach adult literacy classes in villages across the country. They also provide training in basic job skills. And they teach the Bible to millions of children every year. Of course, the ministry's primary goal is spreading the message of Christ and His love. A task that, hopefully, has now become easier. INDIA Historical Indian Elections 2004 and the Hand of God By Dr. Joseph D'Souza President, All India Christian Council May 14, 2004 In a surprise spontaneous move of public anger, the masses - the downtrodden, the poor, the Dalits and even the urban unemployed - all joined together to throw out the BJP-led alliance. – The surprise defeat of the Hindu Nationalist BJP-ruled alliance yesterday has sent shock waves across the nation. One national newspaper headlined today's election results as "SHOCK AND AWESOME". This was a result no one expected. Most opinion polls predicted victory for the BJP alliance, while the exit polls predicted at the worst a hung parliament where the BJP would be able to gobble up an alliance once more. At the bi-annual All India Christian Council conference in March 2004, in Hyderabad, we declared to the over 1,000 Christian leaders gathered from different parts of the nation that this election was going to be a make or break election. We urged the Christian leaders to pray and act. Around India much prayer went up for the nation. I was at a meeting in Chennai for 2,000 Christian leaders gathered for a day of prayer and fasting. The BJP had taken control of the education system in India, rewriting textbooks and history books, and getting full control of universities. They were far into the process of indoctrinating the children and youth of the nation. It was giving State funds to RSS- run schools. Further, the BJP manifesto of 2004 blatantly declared that they would bring a national anti-conversion law. Sangh Parivar outfits who attacked Christians were going free. Muslim victims of the Gujarat carnage still looked for justice. The BJP had not backed down in its attempt to alter the Constitution given to the nation by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, the towering Dalit leader. On the back of the economic boom in India among the middle classes, the BJP alliance launched the election propaganda "India Shining". The BJP publicity managers forgot that for the 800 million Indians who are poor, oppressed, backward, Dalits and minority, India was far from shining. For Indian farmers in the states of Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka, India had become a nightmare and farmers were committing suicide regularly. In some districts of Orissa, people starved even though the food granaries were full. In Gujarat, the new anti- terrorism law was used to put hundreds of innocent people in jails without recourse to the courts. In a surprise spontaneous move of public anger, the masses - the downtrodden, the poor, the Dalits and even the urban unemployed - all joined together to throw out the BJP-led alliance. The Tamil Nadu government, which brought the infamous anti-conversion law, and a BJP ally, did not win a single seat to Parliament. In Andhra Pradesh, the local party, an ally of the BJP, was ousted completely at the local and national level. The BJP did not get a single seat to Parliament from Andhra Pradesh. Top ministers of the BJP government, some of whom engaged in hate speech against the minorities and Dalits were defeated in the North and the South. It was in the states of Uttar Pradesh and Bihar in North India that the BJP alliance received its biggest setback through the consolidation of backward caste, Dalit and minority votes. Even in Gujarat, the BJP's presence in Parliament was brought down significantly. To our great surprise, the Indian Left (which is quite different from the Left in other nations) who have supported us consistently in the fight for religious freedom, had landslide victories and got 62 seats in Parliament. This is the largest number they have received since independence. The next few days will see the formation of a Congress-led alliance of secular democratic forces that are committed to the Constitution of India. Most probably, the Prime Minister will be Sonia Gandhi who was the subject of intense personal attacks because she is a foreigner. The Indian Constitution deliberately framed that all citizens of India would have full rights and that citizenship rights would not be determined by birth . . . individual rights have been determined by birth according to the oppressive caste system. Sonia became an Indian citizen soon after she married Rajiv Gandhi. If Sonia does become the Prime Minister of India, it will be an historic moment in Indian history and a major triumph for the Indian Constitution. Civil society is now looking forward to the rejection of the Hindutva agenda that has affected many areas of Indian life. A national anti- conversion law is now out of the question. Most certainly, there will be a review of the anti-terrorism laws that have been used to victimize the innocent. Civil society wants immediate review of the education department. Most importantly the oppressed peoples, the Dalits, will receive more attention. For all of us in the leadership of the Christian Council, this election and the last seven years have been a demonstration of the power of God when we are united, pray and act. The All India Christian Council is a major Christian alliance, as well as a human rights organization. Our small role in civil society, the human rights fraternity, and the influencing of the political processes in the nation is now accepted by most of the political formations in the nation. Many of our non-Christian friends will be in the Government. A couple of the lay leaders of the Christian Council will be in Parliament and in a few local State governments. To top it all, here in Andhra Pradesh we will have a Christian Chief Minister. Our analysis on the Christian persecution? It will continue and perhaps increase at the State level where the BJP is in power, and we will have to work harder to protect and serve the new Christians in the troubled states of Gujarat and Orissa. The Sangh Parivar groups are expected to create communal tension and problems to vitiate the social atmosphere. Attacks on evangelistic work will continue. But at the national level, we expect change. We expect the national government not to condone the harassment of minorities and the Dalits. We also expect the processes of justice to be expedited. We expect religious freedom and the freedom to exercise all our spiritual and social rights. Pray for India.
Posted by: Viren Jun 3 2004, 10:08 AM
As usual another article by Dr. Joseph D'Souza high on rhetoric and low on substance and the agenda clearly shows.
They were far into the process of indoctrinating the children and youth of the nation. It was giving State funds to RSS-run schools.
Did the funding to Madrassas stop during BJP/NDA regime or on the contrary just increase? What about chatholic institutions? Any changes to their funding enforced by BJP? What about Haj-subsisidy? Any subsidies for yatris during NDA/BJP regime? I didn't think so? Besides do Hindus who study in convents consider praying "Our Father who art in Heaven" every day of their schooling career as indoctrinating?
Sangh Parivar outfits who attacked Christians were going free. Muslim victims of the Gujarat carnage still looked for justice.
Which exact cases listed Sangh Parivaris attacking Christians? I personally remember the Stines case and another case where nuns were raped. On both, the perpetrators were local criminals - no different than any Hindu/Muslim/Sikh man of god or say a women being targetted. What about sheding a few tears for victims who don't belong to that narrow 15% to 20% minority?
The BJP had not backed down in its attempt to alter the Constitution given to the nation by Dr. B.R. Ambedkar, the towering Dalit leader
Repeated pointers to Dalits by President of Christian Council. No doubt in my mind the audience and the agenda this Dr is seeking to push. While on the talk of 'alter the constituion' the right are critisizing BJP for not altering the constitution with respect to naturalized citizens holding . Guess the irony would be lost on this bigot.
The BJP publicity managers forgot that for the 800 million Indians who are poor, oppressed, backward, Dalits and minority, India was far from shining
These poor, oppressed, backward, Dalits and minority didn't become poor, oppressed, backward, Dalits and minority because of BJP/NDA or during the BJP/NDA rule. If the good Dr could remove his blinders he could see the real reason, they would not remain poor, oppressed, backward.
To our great surprise, the Indian Left (which is quite different from the Left in other nations) who have supported us consistently in the fight for religious freedom, had landslide victories and got 62 seats in Parliament. This is the largest number they have received since independence.
LOL! Let their tribe grow and we'll see as to how really different from their comrades in China. And we all know as to how Chinese views on freedom to exercise spiritual and social rights.
If Sonia does become the Prime Minister of India, it will be an historic moment in Indian history and a major triumph for the Indian Constitution.
Why? Let's leave aside her birth for a moment and say it's acceptable. Why - what exactly has been Sonia's achievement till date that it would be "an historic moment in Indian history and a major triumph for the Indian Constitution"
Most importantly the oppressed peoples, the Dalits, will receive more attention
Here we go again...
To top it all, here in Andhra Pradesh we will have a Christian Chief Minister
Hip Hip Hurray! We have a Christian Chief Minister. Muslim President. Sikh Prime Minister. Parsi Feild Marshal. Hindu Defense Minister. Is this what we are reduced too! mad.gif Now who's a racist bigot. mad.gif If say I had mentioned "To top it all, here in Maharashtra or Tamil Nadu or Orissa we have a Hindu Chief Minister" I'd have been hauled over coals by this guy. grenade.gif
will have to work harder to protect and serve the "new Christians" in the troubled states of Gujarat and Orissa
Whoopy do! Looks like only "new Christians" are the targets in India and not "old Christians". Thank lord for little mercies. grenade.gif
Pray for India.
He got that right. With such looneys running around, we do need to pray for India.
Posted by: k.ram Jun 3 2004, 12:58 PM
Flush.gif thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif Missionary handbook on converting educated Hindus ---------------------------------------------------------------- Personal Evangelism Among Educated Hindus by H.L. Richards From Mission Frontier Friendship evangelism is usually easy to initiate with Hindus. Most Hindus esteem religion in general and are free and open to speak about it. A sincere, nonjudgemental interest in all aspects of Indian Life will provide a good basis for friendship. Personal interaction with Hindus will lead to a more certain grasp of the essence of Hinduism than reading many books. A consistently Christ-like life is the most important factor in sharing the gospel with Hindus. The suggestions that follow should help to break down misunderstandings, of which there are far too many, and help to build a positive witness for Christ. Yet learning and applying these points can never substitute for a transparent life of peace and joy in discipleship to Jesus Christ. DO NOT: 1. Criticize or condemn Hinduism. There is much that is good and much that is bad in the practice of both Christianity and Hinduism. Pointing out the worst aspects of Hinduism is hardly the way to win friends or show love. It is to the credit of Hindus that they rarely retaliate against Christians by pointing out all our shameful practices and failures. Criticizing Hinduism can make us feel we have won an argument; it will not win Hindus to Jesus Christ. 2. Do not argue or debate on points where we must disagree with our Hindu friends. Most Hindus sit lightly to their theology or philosophy. God is above our definitions and debates, and the man of God should stand above human disagreements. Often points are raised to deflect a conversation from Christ and his compelling demands; keep a focus on him and avoid debate. 3. Never allow a suggestion that separation from family and/or culture is necessary in becoming a disciple of Christ. To insist or even subtly encourage a Hindu to leave his home and way of life to join the "Christian" way of life in terms of diet and culture, etc., is a denial of biblical teaching. (See 1 Cor. 7:17-24.) 4. Avoid all that even hints at triumphalism and pride. We are not the greatest people with the greatest religion, but some Hindus are taught that we think of ourselves in this way. We do not have all knowledge of all truth; in fact we know very little (1 Cor 8:1,2). We do not desire all India to become "Christian." (Think of what that means to a Hindu--India like America or Europe!) But we do desire all India to find peace and joy and true spirituality. Be careful in using testimonies of Hindus who have found Christ, since triumphalism is often communicated and offends Hindus. Testimonies must be given with evident humility, and with love and esteem for Hinduism. 5. Do not speak quickly on hell, or on the fact that Jesus is the only way for salvation. Hindus hear these things as triumphalism and are offended unnecessarily. Speak of hell only with tears of compassion. Point to Jesus so that it is obvious he is the only way, but leave the Hindu to see and conclude this for himself, rather than trying to force it on him. 6. Never hurry. Any pushing for a decision or conversion will do great harm. God must work, and the Holy Spirit should be given freedom to move at his own pace. Even after a profession of Christ is made, do not force quick changes regarding pictures of gods, charms, etc. Be patient and let a person come to full conviction in is own mind before taking action. 7. Do not force Christian ideas into passages of Hindu scripture. We must be scrupulously honest in interpreting the scriptures of all religions, and must diligently study the larger context of all quotations. There are abundant points of contact between Christian and Hindu scriptures on broad thematic issues; claiming references to Christ where none exist only hurts our credibility. 8. There must be no sectarian Christian appeal. Denominationalism is deadly, and pushing small doctrines will stunt growth and offend spiritual seekers. 9. There must be no pretense or pretending. The suggestions made here must be honestly applied and fully embraced from the heart. To take these ideas merely as a strategy in evangelism, but ignore them in the rest of our life and thinking, would be a sin against God and would lead to nothing good. DO: 1. Work into your life the traditional Hindu (and biblical) values of simplicity, renunciation, spirituality, and humility, against which there is no law. A life reflecting the reality of "a still and quiet soul" (Psalm 131) will never be despised by Hindus. 2. Empathize with Hindus. Appreciate all that is good, and be truly sad about error and sin (as sad as you are about error and sin in Christianity). Learn to think as the Hindu thinks, and feel as he feels. 3. Know Hinduism, and each individual Hindu. It will take some study to get a broad grasp of Hinduism, and patient listening will be required to understand where in the spectrum each Hindu stands. Both philosophical and devotional Hinduism should be studied with the aim of understanding what appeals to the Hindu heart. Those who move seriously into Christian work among Hindus need to become more knowledgeable in Hinduism than Hindus themselves are. Some study of the Sanskrit language will prove invaluable. Remember the biblical pattern from Acts 17 of introducing truth to the Hindu from his own tradition, and only secondarily from the Bible. For example, the biblical teaching on sin is repulsive to many modern Hindus, but their own scriptures give an abundance of similar testimony. Bridge from Hindu scripture to the Bible and Christ. 4.,Be quick to acknowledge failure. Defending wrong practices in the church and Western Christianity only indicates we are more concerned for our religion than we are for truth. 5. Center on Christ. He only can win the hearts of total loyalty to himself. In your life and speech so center on him that all see in your life that God alone is worth living for. Hinduism is often called "God-intoxicated," and the Hindu who lives at all in this frame of mind is put off by Christian emphases on so many details to the neglect of the "one thing that is needed" (Lk. 10:42). 6. Be quick to acknowledge mystery and lack of full understanding. The greatest of thinkers know almost nothing about God, and the Hindu appreciates those who have a deep sense of the mystery of God and life. Don't pretend you understand and can explain John 1:18, 1Timothy 1:17; 6:16, etc., but point a Hindu to these profound truths and to our need to bow before God and his word. 7. Share your testimony, describing your personal experience of lostness and God's gracious forgiveness and peace. Don't claim to know God in his majesty and fullness, but share what you know in your life and experience. This is the supreme approach in presenting Christ to the Hindu, but care must be taken that our sharing is appropriate. To shout on a street corner, or share at every seeming opportunity is offensive. What God does in our lives is holy and private, only to be shared in intimacy to those who will respect the things of God and his work in our lives. 8. Lead in prayer and worship together with your Hindu friend. Hinduism has a grand tradition of deep spirituality, and so it is only by deeply spiritual means that we can expect to bring Hindus to the feet of Jesus Christ. Worship in spirit and truth and communion with God in prayer will open our Hindu friends to the riches of the spirituality available to the followers of Christ. This is the atmosphere most conducive to the Holy Spirit's work of bringing Hindus into discipleship to Jesus. A Hindu who professes faith in Christ must be helped as far as possible to work out the meaning of that commitment in his own cultural context. Often a new follower of Christ is ready to adopt any and every practice of Western Christians, and needs to be taught what is essential and what is secondary in Christian life and worship. For example, it can be shown that the Eastern practice of removing shoes in a place of worship has strong biblical precedence despite the fact that shoes are worn in Western churches. A new believer should be warned against making an abrupt announcement to his or her family, since that inflicts great pain and inevitable produces deep misunderstanding. Ideally, a Hindu will share each step of the pilgrimage to Christ with his or her family, so that there is no surprise at the end. An early stage of the communication, to be reaffirmed continually, would be the honest esteem for Indian/Hindu traditions in general that the disciple of Christ can and does maintain. Approaching Hindus on these lines does not result in quick conversions and impressive statistics. But a hearing will be gained from some who have refused to listen to traditional Christian approaches. And new disciples of Christ can be taught to deal more sensitively with their contexts, allowing them to maintain an ongoing witness to their family and society. As the leaven of the gospel is allowed to work in Hindu minds and society, a harvest is sure to follow in God's own time.
Posted by: Mudy Jun 3 2004, 01:16 PM
Is it mentioned in bible that lying and fooling people is sin?
Posted by: k.ram Jun 3 2004, 01:17 PM
Is Extraction Evangelism Still The Way To Go? Several Other Models Suggest Some Possible Alternatives In Mission To Hindus And Muslims. by H.L. Richards Looking at the mission of the Indian church as a whole, there are two quite dissimilar approaches to missionary work. Missionary evangelists to the tribal peoples are expected to adjust as much as they possibly can to new cultures, and to keep any churches which develop as an integral part of tribal society. This is unquestionably a wise and biblical strategy. When it comes to evangelism among Muslims and high-caste Hindus, however, the standard approach can be considered neither wise nor biblical. Rather than enter the Hindu or Muslim community (as the tribal community is penetrated), evangelists stand outside the society and call for individuals to profess Christ and come out to join the Christians. This means the extraction of new believers from their homes and society, and the destruction of bridges for the Gospel into those societies. Why are the principles of the more successful outreach among tribal peoples not applied to efforts among Hindus and Muslims? Perhaps a main reason is that geographic factors necessitate new churches developing among tribals, whereas Hindus and Muslims often are living in the areas of existing churches. It is obvious, however, that there is no present effectiveness in winning Hindus and Muslims, so that attempts at new strategies are mandatory. In speaking against the present practice of extraction evangelism, care must be taken to avoid misrepresentation in two sensitive areas. First, there should be no cause for offense to the hundreds of faithful followers of Christ who are often in leadership in the churches after having been previously extracted from their homes and society. It is this group of esteemed brothers and sisters who will feel most deeply the issue under discussion. Many feel that an abandonment of extraction evangelism is long overdue. But others, because they left family and society, literally forsaking all for Christ, believe that others should be called to that same radical step. May love cover the differences in opinions and feelings on this issue. Opposing extraction evangelism in no way implies opposition to those who came to Christ and stood for Christ in this way. Rather, all Christians must be concerned together that the natural bridges from the new disciple into his family and society are quickly destroyed, and then years and even decades are expended in seeking to rebuild those ties to reach kith and kin for Christ. Is it not better never to burn the bridges? A second possible miscommunication is that no one from Hindu or Muslim backgrounds will ever face severe opposition if a better strategy for evangelism is adapted. Certainly there will be opposition, and occasionally there may even be expulsion, but everything possible must be done to minimize and eliminate these things. Present attitudes indicate that expulsion is the expected norm, and so extraction of new believers from their societies is subtly (and sometimes not so subtly) encouraged. Each convert extracted from his own cultural situation reinforces in the minds of Hindus and Muslims the misunderstanding that Christians are opposed to their cultural traditions. In this sense, one could defend the thesis that each convert won from these faiths at present actually represents a setback to winning large numbers from these communities. What is the proposed alternative to extraction evangelism? It is simply to apply the principles of missions to tribals in outreach to Hindus and Muslims. This means the evangelist to Hindus should live in every possible way as the Hindus among whom he is working. He should share the Gospel by means familiar to his Hindu friends, rather than the means he and his home church are familiar with. New disciples of Christ will be expected to remain within their society in every way, even as the evangelist has fully become part of that society. New cell groups, eventually to become churches, will grow up within the culture of the people. Obviously, there are areas where there can be no compromise with Hindu and Muslim cultures, but probably these areas are fewer than we first think. Idolatry is an obvious area of conflict with Hindus. But the presence of anti-idolatry movements within Hinduism should make us pause. Why can an educated Hindu reject idol worship and stay in his home (usually not without problems), while those who, under Christian influence, reject idolatry are expelled? The same applies to caste, which many modern Hindus are defying to various extents. Entering and keeping new believers within Hindu or Muslim society is in no way an easy path to follow, but in light of present ineffectiveness new approaches must be attempted. What about the danger of compromise? Is it not possible that the distinct identity of the Christian will be lost? How will anyone know who is Christian and who is Hindu? While compromise must be avoided, there must equally be a refusal to create artificial distinctives. In the New Testament no cultural distinctive is set out for the Christian. Is there any distinctive except a holy, Christlike life? Is there not actually a command to retain the position in life that one had when called to Christ (1 Cor. 7:17-24)? As Paul specifically applied this principle to the main distinctive of Jewish or Gentile culture (v.18,19), should it not today apply to Hindu and Muslim cultures also? No one can presume to have an easy answer to that most difficult of questions, What is a Hindu? So venerable an authority as William Carey called his converts "Christian Hindoos."1 How far is "Hindu" a cultural and how far is it a religious term? With a goal of a church fully faithful to biblical revelation and fully within Hindu culture, is it really necessary that such churches and Christians renounce the term "Hindu"? There are many hard questions and issues to be faced in this approach. Historically, a number of fascinating instances are available and should be studied for insights that might be gained. We will consider only four such cases, each of a different type. First, the presence of numerous secret believers indicates a felt need among many admirers of Christ. The most fascinating of such cases is the Secret Sannyasi mission that Sadhu Sundar Singh claimed to have met on different occasions.2 This is not the place to discuss this difficult subject, especially since it does not seem to present a viable missiological model. We note it is indicative of a need for new approaches. Second, the case of Narayan Vaman Tilak is noteworthy. Tilak was a typical extraction convert, baptized in 1895. His life in Christ is a history of struggle with the Gospel and his Brahmin context. In the last two years of his life he entered into sannyasa, the fourth and final stage in life for a high-caste Hindu. Tilak adapted much of the traditional Hindu focus of sannyasa in light of his biblical convictions, but his step was clearly an effort to break out of isolation within "Christian" society in favor of a return to Hindu society. Along with taking sannyasa himself, Tilak sought the formation of a "brotherhood of the baptized and un-baptized disciples of Christ."3 In present missiological terms, we might consider this the development of a functional substitute for baptism. There was no room for secrecy, since the society was open and clearly evangelistic. There is no record of any Hindu having joined prior to Tilak's untimely death, which finished this experiment before it was properly begun. There are the seeds of a missiological model here, although evangelicals could hardly approve of the laying aside of baptism.4 A third type might be considered semi-secret believers. But the "secret" is more from the church than from Hindus. Akshay Kumar Nandy is a striking illustration of a type that by definition will be mostly unknown. Nandy stood in the heart of the Hindu tradition, and in the early decades of this century was deeply involved in India's struggle for independence. With the stain of one particular sin darkening his soul, he went on pilgrimages to many Hindu centers but found his peace of heart in Christ. He was baptized by a missionary at Serampore College in 1914. But his was not normal conduct: After this initiation the missionaries arranged a tea party for certain invited guests. From this public social function I abstained myself, not that I observed any caste distinctions but I wanted it clear that I did not join the Christian Society. Others may call this initiation or rite of discipleship by the name of "baptism," but to myself it was a very distinctive spiritual step having no other implications and in line with similar rites in Hinduism.5 At the time of his initiation Nandy was staying with a Brahmin family, and continued to do so. He never faced ostracism from his Hindu society. Reflecting on his life in 1950, he sadly noted, "My life and work would have been more fruitful to the glory of God and good of man, had I the opportunity of closer association with the true disciples of Jesus Christ in the Church."6 As an isolated believer Nandy suffered; had he been part of a growing movement within Hindu society this problem would have been mitigated, if not eliminated. Finally, we note the striking Christ movement centered on the charismatic figure of the deeply syncretic Saint of Munipalle, Rao Sahib K. Subba Rao. Subba Rao claimed a vision of Christ and subsequent healing powers. He was bitterly opposed to the church and to baptism and taught a theology far from what could be considered biblical. Only rarely did Christians welcome or approve his variety of service to Christ. His movement was dynamic, however, with estimates of up to 10,000 disciples, mostly in the south Indian states of Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. Despite the problems, Subba Rao's movement illustrates the potential for Christ-centered movements within Hindu society. Such movements can only develop outside and perhaps even against the church, however, as long as the church is stuck in extractionist thinking. Sensitivity to Hindu feelings in these areas may well keep a future Subba Rao from reacting so bitterly against institutional Christianity. By rejecting extractionism and embracing the sociological aspects of these four case studies, we may well find a key that will unlock the door into myriad Hindu homes presently shut off (if not physically, at least psychologically) to the messengers and message of Christ. Wherever and however God leads, let us at least leave behind the extracting of people from one culture and transplanting into another. With sincere thanksgiving to God for many who have been won to Christ by extraction evangelism, let us move on to new methods with new hopes for a larger harvest. 1. See R.D. Paul, Changed Lives, Lucknow Publishing House, Lucknow, India, 1968, p.66. 2. There are a number of references in Sundar Singh's writings. See especially the chapter on "Non-Christians with Christ" in With and Without Christ. Note also support from conservative Presbyterian missionary John Taylor in India: Dr. John Taylor Remembers, Wilmington, 1973, pp.106f. 3. Tilak himself quoted in Winslow, J.Cl, Narayan Vaman Tilak: The Christian Poet of Maharashtra, YMCA, Calcutta, 1930, p. 119. 4. For further reading on Tilak and his struggles and dreams, see my forthcoming Christianity in the Hindu Context: The Life and Legacy of N.V. Tilak. 5. "My Internal Life" in The Seeker, Vol. IV, No. 2, The Rains, 1950. 6. Ibid. 7. The best accessible treatment of Subba Rao is K. Baago's brief study, The Movement Around Subba Rao, CISRS, Bangalore, India, 1968. , Reprinted from Evangelical Missions Quarterly, April, 1994. Box 794, Wheaton, IL 80189
Posted by: k.ram Jun 3 2004, 01:30 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Jun 4 2004, 01:46 AM)
Is it mentioned in bible that lying and fooling people is sin?
As long as the flock is increasing and power of the church is growing, they can ignore their own teachings from the bible, old/new testaments etc... Some of the following from Bible etc about lying. Revelation 21:7-8 says, "He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Matthew 15:18-20a says, "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..." Ephesians 4:15-16 says, "But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Romans 12:17-21 which says, "Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." Exodus 20:16 Numbers 23:19 the Bible says, "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" Colossians 3:9-10 says, "Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him." Luke 8:15 says, "But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience."
Posted by: acharya Jun 3 2004, 03:01 PM
From another source: I feel people of Indian origin deserve to have some facts in front of them, however brutal they may be. There is no such thing as a Hindu. I have read all the scriptures - the four Vedas, the two epics, twenty one Purans and eleven Upnisads. The word was coined by Arabs to describe people living East of the Indus river for Europeans. Of course the Arabs tried to scare the Europeans away to keep the source of their knowledge (numbers) and goods (silk) hidden until the Europeans landed one of their ships in Calicut. In fact the basis of Arab wealth was selling goods and know how from India and China to Egypt and Rome and later to Europe. The Arabs never recovered after the land route to India collapsed, and they never will. But back to Hindu. This is just hijacking a philosophy to sell things. It is not a religion and never was. It is called Sanatan dharma which means an eternal way of life. It is the most secular form of social practices possible although it has some vicious flaws such as castism and mistreatment of women (Sati). As far as the business of building a Ram mandir, it was just a trick for getting votes from an emotional group. I have not done any archelogical studies, but there has never been any trace of the bridge mentioned in the Ramayana between India and Sri Lanka. That tells me that the Ramayana was just a myth and possibly also the Mahbharata. But you may ask how can an intelligent people be fooled for so long? I do not know the answer to that. A lot of people believe in Santa Clause. The only thing I can suggest before you stop reading this message is try to see the movie Troy playing in theaters now. It has some clues as to how the Ramayana got conceived. Helen the wife of Agamemnon the King of Greece was abducted (Sita haran) and taken to the island of Troy (Sri Lanka?). In a huge battle the Greeks manage to rescue Helen and bring her back. They also burn down Troy (Lanka Dahan). The invincible Achilles who is killed in a trick I think shows up as the invincible warrior Karna in Mahabharata who was also tricked and killed in battle with an arrow to his chest. I also suspect that the idea of a God King (that a King can also be God) came from Egypt where Ramases I first claimed that he was the direct descendant of the Sun God Amuna Ra. Rama (without the ses) is also supposed to be Suryavangsi and he is an Avatar of Vishnu or a God king. But the final word belongs to the great American Abe Lincoln: You can fool only some people for some time. I think it is time that we stopped fooling oursleves and get on with the real task of removing poverty and malnourishment in India. And yes a bridge to Sri Lanka will not hurt. In fact bridges and roads to all neighbouring countries would improve trade and regional development. But it s time to stop fooling around and singing meaningless songs. We should not be saluting and discussing Mother Theresa, we should do be doing her unfinished work.
Posted by: Viren Jun 4 2004, 07:00 AM
Original thread split into two. Please continue in this thread.
Posted by: Viren Jun 4 2004, 07:29 AM
The only thing I can suggest before you stop reading this message is try to see the movie Troy playing in theaters now. It has some clues as to how the Ramayana got conceived.
Seems like the guy is more into Hollywood plots - only explanation for this cockamaime laugh.gif post.
I also suspect that the idea of a God King (that a King can also be God) came from Egypt where Ramases I first claimed that he was the direct descendant of the Sun God Amuna Ra. Rama (without the ses) is also supposed to be Suryavangsi and he is an Avatar of Vishnu or a God king.
Even the current Japanese Emperor trace their dynasty going back over thousand to Sun God.
This is just hijacking a philosophy to sell things.
Who's selling with the global conversion program? ohmy.gif
As far as the business of building a Ram mandir, it was just a trick for getting votes from an emotional group.
And we all know as to who got the locks on the temple door opened don't we?
I have not done any archelogical studies, but there has never been any trace of the bridge mentioned in the Ramayana between India and Sri Lanka. That tells me that the Ramayana was just a myth and possibly also the Mahbharata.
Intresting to note the guy starts with archelogical studies in Ayodhya and lands on bridge near Lanka.
But you may ask how can an intelligent people be fooled for so long? I do not know the answer to that. A lot of people believe in Santa Clause
Isn't it true some of the holiest of holy books point to some people being promised 72 virgins after death while others told about the virgin birth. Guess the difference between intelligence and faith would be lost of this guy.
In fact bridges and roads to all neighbouring countries would improve trade and regional development.
I thought 'good fences making good neighbours' was a good start. Bridges can always follow.
Posted by: k.ram Jun 4 2004, 07:47 AM
Missionaries bring aid, controversy to Kashmir The influx of Christian evangelists complicates an already volatile religious equation, critics say By Janaki Kremmer | Special to The Christian Science Monitor NEW DELHI – For a decade now, Christian missionary groups have been flocking to the conflicted province of Kashmir, bringing medicine, school books, and self-help programs. "Muslims and Hindus in Kashmir are fighting too much ... Christians help us to get jobs and they teach us love," says Zubaida Hameed, a student at Srinagar University. "This is good for our people." But some observers worry that the influx of Christian evangelists may be exacerbating a volatile situation in India's northernmost state, where up to 50,000 people have died in sectarian violence. Sandwiched between India and Pakistan, this territory is the cause of two wars between the two neighbors. Armed militants are alleged to sneak across the border from Pakistan to foment trouble in the valley. Just last month 24 Hindus were killed in Kashmir, allegedly by Muslim militants. "The time is not ripe for promoting and spreading a third religion in the valley - it will have bad consequences," says Prashant Dikshit, the deputy director of the Center for Peace and Conflict Studies. Local Christians like Pastor Leslie Richards are also increasingly agitated by the presence of the new evangelists, who they believe are more interested in conversions than social work. Mr. Richards says local Muslims receive cash if they agree to convert. "The conversions they are doing are Biblically wrong ... this is not good for the local Christians, who for centuries have shared cordial relations with the local Muslims here," Richards told the Indian Express newspaper. But Neethi Rajan, an evangelist with the Assemblies of God, rejects the criticism: "There is nothing wrong with spreading the word of Christ, and I assure you we are not bribing or exploiting anyone to come to our church." The Rev. Chander Mani Khanna, pastor of the Anglican All Saints Church in Srinagar, is skeptical of the large numbers of newly converted Christians being tossed about - and of claims that many conversions are for cash. "Of course, I believe that there are some black sheep in the fold - some evangelists who use money as a lure - but I can tell you that I have been here in Srinagar since July 2002, and I have only converted one person - so even if there are a few others in new churches, it is hardly a case of mass conversion." "Most of these young Muslims would be too scared to convert - too scared to tell their families," Khanna adds. ""The young people come to hear sermons mainly to escape from the cycle of violence in their lives - it just gives them an outlet and also gives them someone to talk to." Unofficial reports say that more than 10,000 people have converted to Christianity in Kashmir since 1990. "There are more Christians in Kashmir than on the record," says Premi Gergan, a prominent Christian in Kashmir, told last year. "The number goes into the thousands in the rural areas. We don't want to advertise. It has serious repercussions." In the past, right-wing Hindu groups from upper castes have reacted aggressively against missionaries who attract lower-caste Hindus and other groups trying to escape their unhappy place in Indian society. In 1999 an Australian missionary and his two sons were killed by Hindu extremists in the northeastern state of Orissa because he was reported to have converted hundreds of poor, tribal people in the area. Officials estimate that only 2.18 percent of the Indian population is Christian, and the figure is falling. Most of the Christian missionary groups are funded by parent groups in the West, including the United States, Germany, Britain, and the Netherlands. Most focus their efforts on the rural poor and areas bordering Srinagar, a city of about 750,000 people. Ramesh Landge, founder of the Cooperative Outreach of India, a Christian nongovernmental organization based in New Delhi which gets some of its funding from the Germantown Baptist Church in Tennessee, recently brought 15 sewing machines to women in Kashmir. "We try to make people self-reliant," says Mr. Landge. "These young women - many of them the children of parents with leprosy, now sew clothes for schoolchildren." Landge says that social work combined with the teachings of Christ has done a lot to improve life for the Kashmiri people. "It is ridiculous for anyone to be threatened by a few Christians in Kashmir," says Rev. Dominic Emmanuel, public affairs spokesman for the Catholic Bishops Conference of India. "Missionaries will continue to go where they are needed - where there are earthquakes or famines or conflict. And Kashmir is just one of those places."
Posted by: k.ram Jun 4 2004, 07:56 AM
Posted by: rhytha Jun 4 2004, 09:40 AM
Unbelivable lmaosmiley.gif You got to read this to believe it. ROTFL.gif user posted image Holy Church of Fish, Bread and Wine
Posted by: Mudy Jun 4 2004, 10:30 AM
rocker.gif ROTFL.gif b_woot.gif cheers.gif rocker.gif
Posted by: k.ram Jun 6 2004, 05:45 AM
Christian Appointed to Cabinet The Voice of the Martyrs was delighted to learn this week that India's new Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, has appointed P.R. Kyndiah from northeast India to become his Minister of Tribal Affairs. Kyndiah is known to be a strong Christian and his appointment, it is hoped, will help stem the rising persecution of Christians that has marked India over the last five years. The electoral defeat of the ruling pro-Hindu BJP government and the appointment of India's first non-Hindu Prime Minister are hopeful signs that religious minorities can expect greater protection than they have in recent years. Thank God for recent developments in the India government. Pray that militant groups loyal to the former government will not instigate acts of violence against Christians and other religious minorities in retaliation. Serving the persecuted church: Voice of martyrs Our Purpose The Voice of the Martyrs exists to serve the Persecuted Church through: - Running to help those who suffer for their faith. - Remembering the families of today's Christian martyrs. - Rebuilding the Church's witness after persecution ends. - Reaching out in love to the persecutors. - Raising a voice for those who cannot speak. Our Values - Holding to an evangelical theology (click here to read our statement of faith). - Maintaining a nondenominational scope. - Focusing on the persecuted church. - Embracing prayer as a priority. - Practicing servanthood to the persecuted church. - Equipping without creating unhealthy dependency. - Partnering with others to accomplish the task. - Building practical bonds of love between persecuted and Canadian Christians. - Pursuing excellence in who we are and in everything we do. - Demonstrating financial integrity and accountability. - Upholding our Canadian identity and approach. Our Vision Our fervent desire is to be Canada's most effective and reliable source of information and support of persecuted Christians around the world.
Posted by: Mudy Jun 8 2004, 08:00 AM
So called Secular media of India have decided to stay away from this news, as this may hurt minority feeling biggrin.gif
Posted by: k.ram Jun 8 2004, 12:55 PM
QUOTE (manisht @ Jun 9 2004, 12:52 AM)
My contention is (even the article supports this in another part) that the number is MUCH higher than 2.18% because of underreporting. Not only that, but the percentage of Christians in India is actually growing. This article is just propaganda.
Yeppers. Absolutely agree. Usual the numbers game and politics. I guess at this point, keeping the number around ~2% seem to help them to hang on to "persecuted minority" yarns they spin. I am positive it is much more than 2%
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 8 2004, 08:17 PM
My educated guess is that the real xtian % is close to 4% with substantial jumps in Andhra, and TN
Posted by: k.ram Jun 10 2004, 07:39 PM
DELHI CATHOLIC ARCHDIOCESE Archbishop's House, Ashok Place, New Delhi SEMINAR ON `ROLE OF MEDIA IN ELECTION 2004' Venue: CBCI Conference Hall, Gole Dakkhana, 1, Ashok Place New Delhi Date and Time: Saturday, June 12th 2004 at 4.00 pm The recent Parliamentary elections have been really an eye opener for everyone in the country and to the world at large. The media had projected the result differently with it's opinion polls, exit polls etc. A section favoured the ruling party BJP. The Congress that was written off not only survived but also came back to power with much force. There is understandably a big question mark on the reliability of media. And we have the right to ask - what is the role of media? Is it misleading? Are the people involved in the media influenced by the ruling party or are they free? The Media Commission of the Catholic Archdiocese of Delhi, together with Catholic Bishops Conference of India, Social Communications, Chetanalaya, Information Bureau, Federation of Catholic Associations of The Archdiocese of Delhi is organizing a seminar on Saturday, 12th June 2004 at the CBCI conference hall, CBCI Centre, Ashok Place (Gole Dakkhana), New Delhi. We invite you to participate in this seminar. We will be pleased to have you with us. The Programme: Seminar on `The Analysis of Role of Media in Election 2004' Venue: CBCI Conference Hall, Gole Dakkhana, 1, Ashok Place New Delhi Date and Time: Saturday, June 12th 2004 at 4.00 pm Invited Speakers: Ms. Mrinal Pande (Dainik Hindustan), Mr. Chandan Mitra (The pioneer), Mr. Agrawal (Dainik Bhaskar), Mr. Govind Dixit (Rashtriya Sahara), Mr. John Dayal and Mr. Joseph Gathia. We look forward to participation. Thanking you. Fr John Paul SVD
Posted by: mitradena Jun 10 2004, 07:48 PM
What is the percentage of christians in karnataka, Andhra pradesh and tamil nadu? Is it closer to 10% ?
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 10 2004, 07:49 PM
I think it is close to 10% Many of them are crypto-xtians
Posted by: mitradena Jun 10 2004, 07:58 PM
Apart from christians there is large horde of secularists, commies, "buddhists" (ambedkar style) and others who have "hindu" names but clearly hate hinduism. What percentage of India's population are these?
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 10 2004, 08:39 PM
5% Actually most Dalits are devout hindus and many of the neo-buddhists who actually start to practise buddhism are slowly discovering common ground I am working on a major anti-missionary project in south India with a 100:1 blocking ratio If you are willing to be pre-screened send me private email We need volunteers and money
Posted by: mitradena Jun 10 2004, 10:12 PM
Good. Send me email - mitradena at yahoo dot com
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 11 2004, 04:17 AM
> The Programme: Seminar on `The Analysis of Role of Media in Election 2004' Venue: CBCI Conference Hall, Gole Dakkhana, 1, Ashok Place New Delhi Date and Time: Saturday, June 12th 2004 at 4.00 pm Hello - is it open to everybody or just for journos ? Regards
Posted by: k.ram Jun 11 2004, 05:05 AM
QUOTE (Bhootnath @ Jun 11 2004, 04:47 PM)
> The Programme: Seminar on `The Analysis of Role of Media in Election 2004' Venue: CBCI Conference Hall, Gole Dakkhana, 1, Ashok Place New Delhi Date and Time: Saturday, June 12th 2004 at 4.00 pm Hello - is it open to everybody or just for journos ? Regards
I would think this event is going to be exclusively for "Symathizers of the Church". They will have chai/biscoot, pakore, and pat each other on their backs
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 11 2004, 05:19 AM
Dear Friends I am to understand that T Subrami Reddy, a converted christian has been appointed as the Chairman of the Tirupathi Tirumala Devastanam board. There cant be a bigger insult to the Hindus........with TTD being the richest body not sure what VHP and other are doing Even god wont save us for this Karthik From mediamonitor yahoogroups
Posted by: Mudy Jun 11 2004, 10:57 AM
SaharaTime 12 June 2004 Conversions subvert cultural plurality Sandhya Jain "The need of the moment is not one religion, but mutual respect and tolerance of the devotees of the different religions." - Mahatma Gandhi The Tamil Nadu Chief Minister's sudden decision to revoke the State's anti-conversion law has brought the spotlight on the morality, if not legality, of religious conversions. Amidst a general consensus that Ms. Jayalalitha has backtracked due to loss of political nerve, there are growing fears in the Hindu community that missionaries will pursue their conversion agenda with renewed vigour. Unfortunately, the public discourse on this sensitive issue has mostly been ill-informed and one-sided. Thus one often encounters intellectuals who argue that there is nothing special about India's indigenous religious tradition, and that religion, like any other commodity, can be purchased by free choice in the marketplace. This argument is, of course, both vulgar and simplistic. Conversions are objectionable because they invariably involve loss of identity. This is unavoidable because the religions that proselytize are those that have aggressively destroyed the heritage and roots of the societies whose adherence they won, usually by violence. A cursory glance at the European, African, North and South American and Australian continents will testify to the veracity of this statement. Those who do not subscribe to the view that in India, it is one's Hindu roots that provide the basis of one's culture and values, would do well to ponder over what one of the most famous Western missionaries, Clifford Manshardt, said about conversions soon after independence. Noting that the outstanding Christians in India were all first generation converts, Manshardt observed that this was because ".they brought over their Hindu culture, and they were at home in their own categories. They had their roots in the cultural past; therefore they were natural. The second generation was taken out, and became neither good Europeans nor good Indians. The second and third generation Christians are neither this nor that. In that period, the Indian Christian had lost his soul. A nationalist said to me, "Your Indian Christian is a man out of gear; he isn't in gear with your people, and he is out of gear with us." Over five decades after independence, the situation remains much the same, if not worse. In Tamil Nadu's Periamalai area, local residents are increasingly stressed over frenzied religious activity from a group of missionaries. "They don't allow us to live in peace," they complained (News Today 18 May 2004). The missionaries, who have concentrated their expansion activities here, are brazen and aggressive. Not satisfied with the burgeoning number of churches in the area, they have been regularly collecting the faithful at the Periamali hillock and shouting taunts to the Hindu community and deriding Hindu gods, notwithstanding warnings and admonitions from the administration. What residents find particularly galling is the practice of bringing women to the meetings and asking them to publicly throw their mettis and thalis (symbols of a sumangali, married woman) into the fire as a confirmation of their conversion. This is naturally offensive to the local population, which protested that such activity escalated whenever they went to worship at a Murugan temple nearby. Till some time ago, the missionaries organized provocative all-night meetings in the vicinity of the temple, but after locals complained to the police, a check-post was put up on the entry road to the hillock to prevent night-time meetings. But soon after, the check-post was damaged by miscreants and night-time evangelism resumed. The residents again protested to the authorities and had another check-post erected. They also managed to get a court order restraining the evangelists from 'encroaching' the land of the Murugan temple. Despite such a strong show of community resentment at conversion activities, the missionaries have simply brushed aside concerns for inter-community harmony and persisted with the action plan for conversions at any cost. Clearly missionaries do not accept the basic tenet of civilization - that one's rights end where the rights of another begin. On the contrary, under the garb of minority rights, they have been indulging in behaviour that would be regarded as brazen and intolerant in any civilized society. This is because they are unwilling to respect and tolerate India's indigenous civilization and culture, and remain committed to annihilating it. There are some who argue that 'genuine' religious conversions are permissible, as they rest on an individual's informed choice and are based on a knowledge of the religion in which one is born and the religion to which one is crossing over. This is a valid argument, and such conversion, when it happens, is usually of an individual alone. The experience, however, is that most conversions are mass conversions, brought about by a mixture of force, fraud, and specifically by inducements in the form of social and economic benefits such as jobs, schools, health facilities, and social dignity. In such cases, the converted are usually poor Dalits or tribals, who know nothing about the new religion except some simple prayers that are taught to them by rote. While there can be little doubt that some economic benefits have percolated to some of them, the social benefits are dubious, as even the church acknowledges that hierarchies of caste continue to operate in the new faith, often with renewed vigour. Social dignity and self-respect, then, became a mirage. The famous English journalist and writer, Sir Mark Tully, wrote in 1991 that a friend of his "still refers to Harijan converts as 'powder-milk Christians,' and there is no doubt that these people - the poorest of the poor - were attracted by the missionaries' promises to feed their bodies, rather than the prospect of spiritual nourishment.". Nevertheless, says Tully, the "Harijans also expected Christianity to give them the dignity that they were denied by Hinduism, but here they were to be bitterly disappointed - especially by the Roman Catholic Church." In Hinduism, in contrast, spiritual preceptors like the Kanchi Shankaracharya are actively engaged in eradicating caste inequities.
Posted by: mitradena Jun 11 2004, 02:18 PM
Is it the same T. Subirami Reddy shown in these pics:- Man standing in the middle:- Second from left wearing red kurta/shirt :- On the left :-
Posted by: Muppalla Jun 11 2004, 06:19 PM
T. Subbirama Reddy is not a convert. He is a hindu. Not all Reddys are converts. Well know reddys that are converts are 1) Y.S.Rajasekhar Reddy 2) N.Janardhan Reddy T.Subbirama Reddy is a film producer and always tries to be in limelight. He always tries to befriend with one swami or other. Let's not propogate misinformation. T. subbirama Reddy was one of those fence sitters in Congress who wanted to break the congress and move towards BJP. During Deva Gowda and I.K.Gujral governments, he formed a forum of "First time MPs" and in the name of avoiding another election, he formed a group of 35 or 42 MPs and thre were plans to install a BJP government. He lost his loksabha seat to BJP guy from Vizag in the previous election. I will write about level of evangelization in AP in another post.
Posted by: Muppalla Jun 11 2004, 06:27 PM
One more prominent convert is Late former Chief Minister K.Brahmananda Reddy
Posted by: k.ram Jun 11 2004, 06:55 PM Thousands Of Christian Schools Planned In India June 11, 2004 ( ANS) -- A Christian organization plans to set up 3-thousand schools around India's capital New Delhi amid hopes among mission organization!s that the first ever non-Hindu Indian Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh, the gentlemanly Oxford-educated economist who took office this month, will bring about a "wind of change", Mission Network News (MNN) reported Monday, May 31. MNN, a well informed Evangelical oriented mission news and broadcasting service, quoted a Bibles For The World official as saying that the schools are "one way" of reaching out to the community and that churches, hospitals and clean water wells are expected to follow. "If we can open three thousand schools around New Dehli, we are praying that the Lord of the Harvest will send laborers, and that He will also provide the means whereby we will be able to bring education to these people, and along with that, we will share with them the life transforming message of the Lord Jesus Christ," Bibles For The World's Rochunga Pudaite told MNN. Pudaite said believers are already sponsoring nearly 1,500 needy school children, a hospital, and a seminary in northeast India." MNN also said that sponsors have helped plant "more than 300 Indian churches through partnering with Indian national missionaries," amid news of a growing interest in India in the Gospel of Christ. MNN said "The story of Jesus for Children", was seen five months ago by an estimated 69.5 million Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs including many children when it was aired across India on December 27. "An estimated 35 million children and their parents experienced the gospel, as seen through the eyes of the children who appear in this special version of "Jesus", MNN said citing Jesus film staff sources. Over 9,500 letters were rec! eived in the first three weeks following the broadcasts and Jesus Film staff was quoted as saying that they even "received a long distance call from someone who had turned on the television and saw only the last few minutes, from an area in the Himalayas, asking for a copy of "The Story of Jesus for Children."
Posted by: Mudy Jun 11 2004, 07:52 PM AP Buddhists forced into Christianity? No, says NSCN GUWAHATI, June 11 (IANS): Hundreds of Buddhists in Arunachal Pradesh have fled their homes alleging that Naga guerrillas were forcing them to embrace Christianity, but the rebels and officials emphatically deny the allegations. The Purvanchal Bhikhu Sangha, an apex body of Buddhist monks in the North-east, said the two factions of the National Socialist Council of Nagaland (NSCN) had served notices asking the community to accept Christianity. "After the diktat there has been total panic in the area, with hundreds of families fleeing to safer areas fearing reprisal from the militants," a Sangha statement said. More than 40,000 Buddhists are settled in parts of Tirap and Changlang districts in eastern Arunachal Pradesh, bordering Myanmar. But the mainstream NSCN faction led by Isak Chishi Swu and Thuingaleng Muivah flatly denied the allegation. "We don’t believe in forcible conversions as it is against the ethos of Christianity. The allegations are false and aimed at maligning us," K. Chawang, publicity chief of the group, told IANS by telephone from Dimapur. "We do preach about the positive things that Christianity offers, but for someone to get converted into the faith depends on their own personal conviction," he added. Authorities in Tirap and Changlang districts have also denied the reports. "The militants of the two NSCN frequent the district en route to Myanmar for food and shelter and even take money from locals," said Hiba Tamang, police superintendent of Changlang district. "But no formal police complaint has been lodged by any Buddhist group about threats of forcible conversion by NSCN." Tamang, however, said such allegations had been aired in the past. "But now we don’t have any such reports. Conversion to Christianity is not a new phenomenon in the State. But then there are no such thing like forcible conversion," he said. "A number of Buddhist villagers have been persecuted by the NSCN factions on charges of being informers for the Indian Army," said another group, Purvanchal Buddhist Association. And while the NSCN believes the Buddhists are colluding with the authorities, the two Buddhist groups have accused the security forces of harassing the locals on charges of aiding and abetting the NSCN. "We are in a Catch 22 situation. On one side we are persecuted by the militants on charges of being army informers while the security forces harass us on the pretext that we provide shelter and food to NSCN," the statement said. The tribal Buddhist Chakma and Hajong refugees have been staying in Arunachal Pradesh since 1964 as stateless citizens after they fled their native Chittagong Hill Tracts in Bangladesh following alleged persecution. But the Election Commission had included the names of 1,497 Buddhist Chakma and Hajong refugees in the state’s electoral rolls following a verdict by the Supreme Court just before the recent general elections. The refugees have been staying in thickly forested areas in eastern Arunachal Pradesh and eking out a living by selling agricultural produce and running petty businesses.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 11 2004, 08:33 PM
Stopping evangelisation in Andhra
Posted by: Muppalla Jun 12 2004, 07:41 AM
QUOTE (G.Subramaniam @ Jun 12 2004, 09:03 AM)
Stopping evangelisation in Andhra
Could you please post the link to the Article about "Stopping evangelisation in Andhra" I couldn't find the article from the site.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 12 2004, 08:03 AM
Chinnajeeyar does 1. Religious revival with his Geeta programs 2. Social service There is another thing that Chinnajeeyar does is Go-Puja Xtians are beef-eaters Missionaries can be stopped only by a combination of Religious revival and Social Service While the website does not directly mention xtian conversions the activities done by Chinnajeeyar tend to reduce conversions Finally he does not sing praises of jesus like many of our moron-swamis His website takes donations US tax-deductible
Posted by: bharathpremi Jun 12 2004, 09:19 PM
anyone read this article? The invention of the Hindu Is it an old one or nwe one , I could not make out
Posted by: George J Jun 14 2004, 09:41 PM
QUOTE (Muppalla @ Jun 12 2004, 06:57 AM)
One more prominent convert is Late former Chief Minister K.Brahmananda Reddy
blink.gif Umm nope.
Posted by: acharya Jun 15 2004, 06:34 PM
ALL INDIA CATHOLIC UNION (Founded in 1919, Representing the 1.6 Crore Catholic Laity in India) National President: Dr. Maria Emilia Menezes National Vice President: Dr. John Dayal 3rd Floor, Dempo Trade Centre, Patto Plaza, Panaji 403001 email: aicufile@g... Please contact Dr. John Dayal at 505 Link Society, 18 I.P. Extn Delhi 10092, India Ph: 09811021072, 011-22722262 johndayal@v... Indian Catholics protest newspaper cartoon on Madonna and Baby Jesus New Delhi, 23 May 2004: India's Catholic community has strongly condemned a newspaper computer-cartoon depicting Sonia Gandhi as the Virgin Mary with the new prime minister, Dr Manmohan Singh, as Baby Jesus in her arms. The cartoon, in the mass-circulated Hindi newspaper Hindustan from the stable of industrialist KK Birla, plays on the right wing political propaganda of Congress president Sonia Gandhi as an Italian Catholic who will be controlling the Congress-led coalition government. Mrs. Gandhi, leader of the now ruling Progressive coalition, had led her party to a historic victory in the recent general elections, and after her election as head of the coalition parliamentary group, renounced her claim to the prime ministership saying she was `responding to her inner voice.' Hailed nationwide for her decision, Sonia continues to be target of attack from the defeated Bharatiya Janata party and its ideological masters of the fundamentalist Sangh Parivar who launched a shrill attack on the Congress president for her foreign origins. BJP ally and Tamil Nadu chief minister J Jayalalitha, also routed in the recent lections, had some years ago pasted the state capital of Chennai with posters depicting herself as the Virgin Mary. That had provoked statewide protests, forcing her to withdraw the poster. She did not apologise. In a letter to Hindustan Editor in chief and famed woman novelist, Mrs. Mrinal Pandey, All India Catholic Union national vice president John Dayal expressed the community's anguish over the newspaper cartoon. In her letter, Dr John Dayal said "We are stunned, shocked and surprised to see the First page of today's Hindustan (23rd May 04) showing a computer graphic composite of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Congress President Mrs. Sonia Gandhi in the guise of the Madonna with the Child Jesus. "The Blessed Mother has a special place in the hearts of every Catholic in the world. Together with the Child Jesus, the Icon of the Virgin Mary is revered and venerated across the globe, and especially by those seeking peace and healing. "The Catholic Community in India registers its strong protest with you and hopes you would take urgent and immediate corrective steps. The graphic artist may perhaps want to know that the juvenile political innuendos contained in the graphic -- have not gone down well with the paper's readership." Released to the media by Dr. John Dayal, for publication.
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 16 2004, 06:06 AM
> Indian Catholics protest newspaper cartoon on Madonna and Baby Jesus Saraswati nude is Freedom of Expression , Constituional right blah blah.. what wld gjey say abt this ?
Posted by: George J Jun 17 2004, 08:44 AM
QUOTE (Bhootnath @ Jun 16 2004, 06:36 PM)
> Indian Catholics protest newspaper cartoon on Madonna and Baby Jesus Saraswati nude is Freedom of Expression , Constituional right blah blah.. what wld gjey say abt this ?
Well I would either protest both or protest neither depending on my (constitutional rights) mood, but never just one. Political cartoons are India's last bastion of free speech its the only one that has historically enjoyed immunity against the 'ransaking', 'gheroing' and the 'beating up' of its creator, by a mob that is loosely affiliated by the 7th degree of separation with the subject of the cartoon. Any sort of politcal cartoon based on cliche'd depiction of someones religious beliefs is downright unimaginative and in poor taste. Just like putting gods on bikinis or footware is downright insenstive.
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 17 2004, 09:32 AM
> what wld gjey say abt this ? Hey this wasnt for you , gjey is/was handle of SAJA chap, are you the same guy ? But if you are just giving your opinion , great . Regards
Posted by: rhytha Jun 17 2004, 10:28 AM
GJ, B did'nt mean you tongue.gif
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 17 2004, 10:46 AM
> GJ, B did'nt mean you tongue.gif enna daa , any mistake by me ?
Posted by: acharya Jun 17 2004, 05:18 PM Hindutva attacks against the Christian minority in India An index (1964-1998) This index of attacks by the Hindu fundamentalist forces on the Christian minority community in India since 1964 reveals the startling frequency with which the attacks have suddenly increased since the assumption of power by the Hindu right wing party Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) nine months ago. The number of violent incidents between 1964 and 1997 is 53, which is quite marginal by Indian standards, but in the space of one single calendar year of 1998 more than 90 violent attacks have taken place in states as far apart as Gujarat and Karnataka, Haryana and Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and Tamil Nadu, and Uttar Pradesh. The pattern of orchestrated violence by the organisations and outfits related to RSS is reminiscent of the large scale acts of sustained and continuing violence by the same forces against Muslims during and after the campaign for the demolition of Babri Masjid and the 1984 violence against Sikhs. The dedication with which the the militant wing of Hindu fascism—often called hardliners—is pursuing its goals is only matched by the studied innocence with which their political patrons in the ruling BJP are professing their ignorance of these incidents (the list includes the saffron Home Minister LK Advani) and denying any link with these. The index has been circulated by Mr. John Dayal on behalf of the United Christian Forum for Human Rights. Further details can be obtained from there (Fax: 91-11- 3715146; e-mail: INCIDENTS OF VIOLENCE AGAINST THE CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY IN INDIA
Posted by: rajesh_g Jun 17 2004, 05:40 PM
The pattern of orchestrated violence by the organisations and outfits related to RSS is reminiscent of the large scale acts of sustained and continuing violence by the same forces against Muslims during and after the campaign for the demolition of Babri Masjid and the 1984 violence against Sikhs.
blink.gif unsure.gif This is new
Posted by: Mudy Jun 17 2004, 07:17 PM
John Dayal is worst then Osmana Bin Laden or Bukhari. He is a crook of highest order. He is spreading nonsense for such a long time. His strategy is keep telling lies 1000 times and people will start believing it.
Posted by: Mudy Jun 18 2004, 11:29 AM
manisht, Here is a little secret, Information which you see in Census/NIC/Adult Education site was entered and analysis by me and my friend, when i was just a trainee/analyst on low paying project. So called 1991 data, was actually entered in 89-90. [Note: those data which look like done using old technology, I mean Lotus1-2-3,dbase2 or dbase3 and text format]. I was really surprised to these those data on net. For last 14 years, no one had made any efforts to change it. Some data was fudge, because of lack of information or too lazy to verify input. I laugh when people refer those pages. If I get a chance to visit India soon I will try to dig some actual data. Ignore 1991 data on education, population and religion, sex,polio etc from these sites. biggrin.gif If you want to check census data of 1991 than you may have to refer sites which refer records after 1994..
Posted by: Mudy Jun 18 2004, 01:37 PM
Data should be out by end of 2004 in book form. Normally, it takes that long. Plus add change in government and movement of babus.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 18 2004, 04:41 PM
1991 census came out in 1994 or 1995
Posted by: Viren Jun 19 2004, 03:33 PM
QUOTE (acharya @ Jun 17 2004, 08:18 PM)
Worth posting in full: from: Who Killed Australian Missionary Graham Staines? -Arun Shourie The findings of the Justice Wadhwa Commission of Inquiry ------------------------------------------------------------------ On the face of it, the report of the Wadhwa Commission on the murder of the Australian missionary Graham Staines and his two sons should have been very welcome to our secular friends. Justice Wadhwa has concluded that the main person who organised the attack was Rabindra Kumar Pal alias Dara Singh, and that his motive in doing so was "misplaced fundamentalism", namely his conviction that conversions by missionaries were threatening Hinduism. He also records evidence to the effect that Dara Singh had been involved in an activity which, in the eyes of secularists, is as deplorable as an activity can get: protection of cows from slaughter. But no, the secularists are all in rage. "A stained report," "A whitewash," "A politically tutored report" -- they have been shouting. Justice Wadhwa has failed the litmus test: if only he had included a sentence -- a single sentence! -- imputing -- howsoever obliquely -- that Dara Singh was in some way affiliated to some organization that can be linked to the RSS or the BJP, what applause would have greeted the Report! But the Judge has stuck to evidence. Hence the fury! For our friends, a Commission of Inquiry is credible only if it is useful!In fact, the Report is instructive on many counts. Not to heed them is to condemn the country to further problems. The first to draw a lesson should be the press. In Chapter 10, Justice Wadhwa takes up "Other Proximate Incidents." The first of these is the alleged rape of Sister Jacqueline Mary on 3 February, 1999. "Orissa nun raped in moving car," the headlines declared, Justice Wadhwa records. "Orissa's second stain: nun raped," shouted the Indian Express, "Nun gangraped by men in sari in Orissa," hollered The Telegraph. The village "has become the rallying point of Christians of the area," the papers proclaimed. "The press, on the basis of some statement made by the pastor of the Church highlighted the role of some Hindu fundamentalist organizations," writes Justice Wadhwa. "....It was termed as a planned attack on the Church. It was said that there was a role of communal forces.... Electronic media was not far behind. It was highlighted as an anti-Christian attack." "Do not treat this as an isolated incident," the papers quoted teachers of a Christian convent school saying, "A communal conspiracy is suspected to be behind the rape." There indeed was a conspiracy, and a communal one at that. The whole thing was a concoction -- by those whose agenda it is to paint Hindus as communalists on the rampage, and the RSS, BJP etc. as organizations which are orchestrating a "pogrom". "Investigations, however, revealed that what Sister Mary said in the FIR was not true," records Justice Wadhwa. "It was a made up story. Investigations found that there was in fact no rape of Sister Mary.... B. B. Panda, D(irector) G(eneral) (of) P(olice) stated that the 'rape of the nun' case was projected and highlighted all over the world and was also projected as an attack on Christians when in fact it was not true, and the case turned out to be false." The second incident occurred on 7 February, 1999. Two children, aged 10 and 19, were found murdered, a third had sustained injuries. "This incident again attracted a great deal of publicity in the media, including electronic media," writes Justice Wadhwa. "Newspapers came up with the headings, 'Two Christians killed, one injured in Orissa,' '2 tribal Christians done to death in Kandhamal,' and 'Orissa hunts for Christians' killer'. Additional D. G. P. John Nayak reportedly said that the communal angle to the attempted rape and murder could not be ruled out...." "A certain political party even blamed the State and Central Governments," Justice Wadhwa recalls, "and stated that the inaction of the State Government in the Manoharpur missionary killing incident (the killing of Staines and his sons) and the alleged rape of the nun in Baripada encouraged miscreants to commit yet another crime in Kandhamal." "In short," he concludes, "as per various reports that appeared in the newspapers, the incident was taken as an attack on the Christians." And what turned out to be the truth? "Ultimately investigation revealed that the crime was committed by a relative of the victims who was also a Christian," the Commission notes. I'll come to the third incident in a moment, for it concerns an institution other than the press. The fourth incident occurred on 8 December, 1998. Tribals attacked the police station at Udaygiri, stormed the jail, dragged two undertrial prisoners out, and lynched them to death in front of the police station. After that, they burnt houses belonging to members of a particular caste, Pana. The incident too was projected as a Hindu-Christian encounter. It was nothing of the kind. The tribals were being harassed by criminals who happened to be from the Pana caste. The police had been doing nothing. One day the criminals robbed tribals of all their cash as they were proceeding to seek employment. That ignited the flash. But a Hindu-Christian clash it became! That is one lesson, and Justice Wadhwa draws special attention to it: the press should not rush to conclusions before it has investigated the facts. The facts he has recorded urge that the caution be made specific: the press should be particularly wary of going by allegations of communalism-mongers. The second institution which comes out most poorly is the Minorities Commission. For quite some time now, this Commission has been putting out patently partisan reports, reports so partisan as to appear to be designed to inflame. It is all too the good, therefore, that in the course of his inquiries into the incidents, Justice Wadhwa has given us a glimpse into the way it goes about its work. The incident I postponed mentioning is typical. In it, in mid-March, 1999, Hindus -- a minority in the village -- were pictured as having sparked off Hindu-Christian clashes in village Ranalai. Christians painted a large Cross on a hillock. Some Hindus transfigured it into a Trishul. A peace committee consisting of representatives from both communities decided that there would be neither a Cross nor a Trishul. Next day, Hindus went and erased the sign. Christians alleged that while returning, Hindus shouted slogans proclaiming victory. Tension mounted. While trying to control the situation, a Circle Inspector of the police was manhandled by Christians. He registered an FIR against three of them. Houses of Christians were said to have been burned down. Cross-complaints were filed by Hindus and Christians -- each side accusing the other. The Minorities Commission sent a team, and declared that the genesis of the trouble lay in BJP men inflaming feelings of the local Hindus and instructing them to convert the Cross into a Trishul. As for the incidents and tension, it came to the conclusion it always does: the Hindus had created the trouble. Justice Wadhwa observes, "These findings are without examining any person on oath or receiving evidence on affidavits." The Minorities Commission had also stigmatized the State Government for inaction. Justice Wadhwa writes, "When the members of the Minorities Commission visited the village (within a fortnight of the supposed incidents), normalcy prevailed. Cases had already been registered against members of both the groups...." Justice Wadhwa shows that the Minorities Commission proceeded in a manner that is in manifest violation of its own statute. And he quotes the account that The Economic Times correspondent filed after visiting the village. The 22 March, 1999 issue of the paper reported, Justice Wadhwa writes, "that roots of the Ranalai village incident in Gajapati district of Orissa in which houses of Christian families were burnt down by Hindu tribals of nearby villages lie in the economic disparities prevailing between the two communities. The report further said that tension had been building up since the night of February 9, when 23 houses of Hindu families were burnt down by criminals belonging to the Christian community of the nearby Jhami Gaon.... The report further stated that 'The unfortunate incident was largely unreported and totally ignored by national and international media'." The constructions of the Minorities Commission on the Staines' murder turn out to be designed to colour that crime in the same hue. To take one example, Staines and his family were not involved in preaching of Christianity for the previous 10 years leading to conversion in Manoharpur, the Minorities Commission said in the report it sent to Justice Wadhwa. In fact, associates of Staines himself told the Wadhwa Commission that Staines used to conduct "Bible classes" at "Jungle camps." One of his oldest acquaintances told the Commission that Staines had been totally secretive about both the "Jungle camps" and the accounts etc. of the Leprosy House he ran. While some witnesses maintained that he never even attended baptisms, some reported that he did, that he provided vehicles for marriages and baptism functions. More telling is something of an order altogether different from the oral testimony of witnesses. It turns out that Staines and his wife, Gladys, regularly filed despatches for a journal in Australia, Tidings. This journal is run by the missionary organization in Australia which financed Staines and his activities in Manoharpur. When the Commission learned about the despatches, it requested the concerned persons for copies of the journal. None were supplied! The Commission had to obtain these from other sources. Justice Wadhwa reproduces several extracts from the despatches.
"Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 25 April, 1997: The first jungle camp in Ramchandrapur was a fruitful time and the Spirit of God worked among the people. About 100 attended and some were baptized at the camp. At present Misayel and some of the Church leaders are touring a number of places where people are asking for baptism. Five were baptized at Bigonbadi. Pray for the Etani Trust in which the Mission properties are vested. One man managed by underhand means to get parts of the property in his own name and a number of nominal Christians of the Baripada Church are also trying to get some of this valuable property for themselves. The Trust is having to take legal action to rectify this." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 23 July, 1997: Praise God for answered prayer in the recent Jagannath car festival at Baripada. A good team of preachers came from the village churches and four OM workers helped in the second part of the festival. There were record book sales, so a lot of literature has gone into the people's hand...." (Incidentally, "OM" is a carefully chosen acronym: the organization it signifies is actually one of the largest publishers and distributors of missionary literature!) "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 19 September, 1997: Praise God we now have the Ho New Testament in Oriya script and many copies are now in the hands of the Ho people. Pray to God that it will be used of God to speak to many as they read his word in their own language...." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 11 February, 1998: Jungle camp means four days of Bible teaching, prayer and fellowship of Christians living together. It enables believers from other churches to meet with local Christians to discuss experiences and encourage one another.... The camp also can create hunger in the hearts of those who come just to observe. Each camp has a bookstall, which for many is the only chance to buy Christian literature.... It was also encouraging to see so many Ho people following the references in the Ho New Testament during the messages at Sarat Jungle camp. We sold all the New Testaments we took there...." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 20 March, 1998: "....Over the next two months there will be a programme of baptism in nearby villages for those asking for them. These are times for witness to non-Christians too...." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 19 May, 1998: There are many new believers in the Manoharpur Church and the work is growing. The devil is now finding opportunity to hinder the work of God. There is disagreement between the young people and the older men of the Church. A problem arose about the land on which the Church is built and the planned Vacation Bible School had to be canceled. Last year more than 100 children attended this programme. The translation of Daily Life into Oriya is complete...." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 19 June, 1998: In many churches here Sunday schools have ceased to function. I have been advocating these and at a recent Church leaders meeting I heard that some have re-started this work.... The Vacation Bible School that was to be held at Manoharpur was canceled because of problems in the Church there. Two hundred and eight children registered for the one at Raika.... It was an excellent time and some young people who teach in VBS are being trained and encouraged for children's work and Sunday school." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 21 August, 1998: ....There are still divisions in the Church at Manoharpur and the churches at Durakuntia and Burudi are very weak. It is wonderful to see the little girls being cared for in the Rairangpur hostel. They have a wonderful opportunity to learn to read and learn of the Lord...." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 18 September, 1998: Four men visited Manoharpur Church to discuss the problems there and much was sorted out. A man who wants to be the head of the Church wants to bring in or join with two other groups who do not teach and walk according to the scriptures...." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 19 December, 1998: It is encouraging to hear of some improvement in the Church at Manoharpur and that they are preparing for the jungle camp. Misayel, Paul and Nehemiah visited Patana in early December but, as many were away rice harvesting, they could meet only with a few. They were able to encourage a new believer who had been a priest of the Sana Dhoram, an animist sect. The village people pleaded with him not to become a Christian saying, 'How can we continue our worship if you leave us?' 'You can do as you like, but I am following Christ,' he said. Continue to pray. God is working."
The typical concerns of a typical missionary -- harvesting souls for the Church. The prejudices of a missionary -- Sanatana Dharma, an animist sect! While his wife and some others denied this, one of his close associates spoke of his "hatred" for other religions. This associate reported -- and even Gladys, Staines' wife, acknowledged -- that, if he happened to be at any non-Christian function, Graham Staines would never take prasad, as, Mrs. Staines claimed, doing so is prohibited in the Bible.... After reviewing the evidence, the Wadhwa Commission, therefore, concludes, "Besides his involvement with Leprosy House, Staines was also involved in missionary work. The missionary work of Staines has come to light from the various despatches sent by him to Australia, which are published in the newsletter, 'Tidings'. Staines also used to take part in baptism ceremonies although he may not have necessarily carried out the baptism himself. Paul Murmu says that Staines attended baptism ceremonies and marriage ceremonies of Christian families whenever he was available. However, it is the despatches sent by Staines to Australia in the newsletter 'Tidings' that make it clear that Staines was also involved in active propagation of his religion apart from his social work. It is also clear from the said despatches that conversions were taking place in jungle camps. The missionary work of Staines obviously included organizing and conducting jungle camps, translating the Bible in tribal languages, preaching of Bible to the tribals. It is obvious, therefore, that Staines was both a social worker engaged in the treatment and eradication of leprosy amongst the poorest of the poor and also a missionary driven by a deep commitment to his religion and the belief that he should spread its tenets amongst the people in the area. His missionary activities did lead to conversions of tribals to his faith." But as far as the Minorities Commission is concerned, supresso veri, and pronounce! Even such misrepresentations by bodies such as the Minorities Commission are lessons in themselves. But, as we shall see, these are minor ones compared to other lessons which the Wadhwa Commission's Report holds out. Having asserted that Graham Staines had not been involved in missionary work, the Minorities Commission asserted that cordial relations existed between Hindus and Christians, that there were no ill-feelings among them. The two assertions together set the stage for the main theme the Commission pressed: the murders were lightning out of the blue, they were the handiwork of Dara Singh, and Dara Singh in turn was affiliated to the Bajrang Dal. While a number of Christian witnesses as well as some policemen told the Justice Wadhwa Commission that there was no communal tension in the area, others testified to the contrary. There had been tensions between the communities for seven years, they told the Commission. And for one reason. The Australian missionary organization which was financing Staines had set up 20-25 churches in Mayurbhanj and Keonjhar districts, a linguist working with the Indian Evangelical Mission told the Commission. Jungle camps were used for baptizing persons, witnesses told the Commission. B. B. Panda, who was Director General of Police, Orissa from October, 1997 to March, 1999, stated in a report to the State Government that "Mr. Staines was attending Jungle Mela in Manoharpur for the last more than 20 years. Majority of the local Adivasi Christians had been converted to Christianity through his efforts." S. C. Bala, the Superintendent of Police of the Crime Branch, who investigated the case, was asked by the Wadhwa Commission about his assessment regarding the likely motive for the murders. He told the Commission that the motive "appeared to be that non-Christian people were aggrieved on the ground that Christian fathers/missionaries are converting the people to Christianity in a deceitful manner by giving allurements." More telling are the despatches of Staines and his wife in Tidings, the newsletter of the Australian missionary organization. They themselves wrote about these tensions repeatedly.
"Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 19 September, 1997: ....The Ho believers in Thakurmunda still face persecution. From time to time the village people have beaten them up, broken their bicycles and not allowed them to worship in their own Church building. Three people came to Baripada to meet district officials and petition for justice. Pray that action will be taken to allow freedom to worship." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 22 February, 1998: We have just arrived home from the Baliposi camp a day early. Some people from a Hindu militant group who are persecuting the Christians came to the camp but were not able to disturb the meetings. On the last day the police came and told us to stop the meeting and leave, as they would not be able to protect us...." -- election-related requirements left no men to spare. "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 20 March, 1998: Six men came to Baripada to speak with officials in the intelligence department regarding the tension in the Thakurmunda area...." "Graham and Gladys Staines, Mayurbhanj, 19 May, 1998: ....We have been told that a militant Hindu group plans to concentrate on Mayurbhanj and Keonjhar districts to turn Christians back to Hinduism...."
In a word: conversions were taking place; this had caused tensions; so much so that a Hindu group had decided to try and get them back into Hinduism. But for our Minorities Commission, all was peace and harmony! The First Information Report on the Staines' murder was filed by the pastor of the Manoharpur Church. He turns out to be a good candidate for some of our secularist organizations. The assailants shouted "Jai Bajrang Dal," he said in the FIR. Witness after Christian witness testified that what the assailants shouted was "Jai Bajrang Bali." The assailants set fire to the Church, he said. The Church turned out to not have been harmed. On count after count -- what he saw, what he heard, the persons he named as having committed the crime -- the pastor's statements turned out to be contradictory. On count after count he disowned them himself. After narrating these somersaults, Justice Wadhwa remarks, "It is, thus, clear that the FIR was drawn up only after the Chief Minister had left Manoharpur. From all angles, it is a doctored FIR, a large part of which has been disowned by the informant himself and also has been shown to be false." But it is this FIR which became the basis for imaginative journalism. B. B. Panda, who was then Director General of Police, Orissa, told the Commission that the New Indian Express -- that is, the southern editions of the Indian Express -- of 25 January, 1999, quoted him as saying, "over 50 people suspected to be activists of the Bajrang Dal and Vishwa Hindu Parishad were involved in the incident, and so far 47 persons have been arrested." He told the Commission that as he had not said this, he sent the paper a contradiction. The paper did not publish the contradiction. By that figure of 47-50 arrests hangs another lesson also. One result of the gruesome nature of the murders, of the fact that even the little sons had been done to death, of the fact that the State Government had to show to the Congress leadership in Delhi that it was acting energetically, and also of the glare the media had brought to bear on the case was that the police felt it just had to show something. The consequence? "The police went berserk," observes Justice Wadhwa. It picked up anyone who in its imagination could somehow or the other be linked with the Bajrang Dal. Fifty one persons were thrown into jail. The Crime Branch found that there was absolutely no case against them. All of them had to be released. Justice Wadhwa observes, "It would thus appear that 51 persons underwent the agony of going into judicial custody for two months or more. Though initially the State Government took a great deal of pride that police arrested as many as 51 accused showing the efficiency and promptness of the police, but ultimately subsequent events showed that in the State of Orissa, as far as these 51 persons are concerned, there was no rule of law. Prakash Mehra (DIG) in his supervision note had stated that there was no evidence in respect of all the five FIR named accused persons or the 51 persons arrested by the local police." "The question then arises in view of the contradictions which make the FIR a false document, what was the motivating force behind it?," asks Justice Wadhwa. "And why as many as 51 innocent persons were arrested between 23rd to 28th January, 1999?" "Answers to these questions are not far to seek," he concludes. "The State Government was rattled by the gravity of the crime. To divert attention from its own failure to maintain law and order and to protect the innocent and then show 'speedy and decisive' action, a false picture is presented." And as for the involvement of the Bajrang Dal etc., the Commission concludes, "The Commission has scrutinized the evidence before it and especially the evidence of the associates of Dara Singh who were involved in the carnage at Manoharpur. There is no evidence to suggest that any of the persons involved in the crime was in fact a member of either the Bajrang Dal or BJP or any organization. There is nothing to suggest in the evidence before the Commission, or in the investigation conducted by the Crime Branch and the CBI thus far that there is involvement of any organization, even that of Bajrang Dal, in the planning and the execution of the crime." Several witnesses testified to Dara Singh's involvement in the crime -- in preparing for it, in executing it. Justice Wadhwa is in doubt that Dara Singh was the prime mover. To fly off in rage at Dara Singh, and feel that one has done one's duty is to miss the point. There are several important pointers. Several witnesses testified that Dara Singh had been engaged in rescuing cows that were being transported for slaughter. He had been trying to get the State to enforce the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals laws. This activity was taken, even by the police, to be "anti-Muslim" activity. Dara Singh was accordingly implicated in cases filed by persons engaged in transporting and selling cows for slaughter. That is as far as the consequences for Dara Singh under the law are concerned. The effect on the people was the exact opposite. Witness-29, who testified that he had been asked by Dara Singh to accompany him to Manoharpur, told the Commission, "Dara Singh is a very popular figure in the village as he forcibly frees cows from the people who take them for selling. After freeing the cows, Dara Singh distributes the cows among the villagers...." Cows are revered by Hindus. The man trying to save them becomes an outlaw in the eyes of the police, and a hero in the eyes of the people. Two lessons in that. On the other hand, Staines and his associates are left free to go on converting Hindus to Christianity. There is no evidence that Staines himself resorted to fraud, force or allurement. Even so, tensions mount because of conversions. Staines' own despatches testify to this. But our institutions -- the Minorities Commission and the police being representative in this regard -- even in retrospect assert the fiction that there was no tension between Christians and non-Christians. The second clue is provided by the evidence of a key witness, one whose testimony contributes most to nailing the involvement of Dara Singh. He is one Dipu Das. He was a close associate of Dara Singh. He revealed to the Commission that "youth from Gayalmunda and Bhalughera had approached Dara Singh sometime in August 1998 to stop the Christians from converting Hindus to Christianity...." That is the key lesson: if the State is going to persist with double-standards in regard to the sentiments of Hindus and non-Hindus on the one hand, and with a deliberate shutting of eyes on the other, it is paving the way for such crimes. That lesson is brought home most forcefully by Justice Wadhwa's findings in regard to the Orissa law that bears on conversions. As has been noted earlier, Orissa passed a law in 1967 to regulate conversions. It is known as the Orissa Freedom of Religion Act. Its constitutionality -- as well as that of the allied law in Madhya Pradesh -- has been upheld by a five judge Constitution Bench of the Supreme Court in Rev. Stainislaus v. State of Madhya Pradesh (AIR 1977 SC 908). Among other things, the law provides, "No person shall convert or attempt to convert, either directly or otherwise, any person from one religious faith to another by use of force or by inducement or by any fraudulent means, nor shall any person abet such conversion." Anyone doing so, the Act provides, shall be punished by imprisonment of up to one year and/or a fine of Rs. 5,000. In case the offence relates to a minor, a woman or a person belonging to the Scheduled Castes or Tribes, the punishment shall be double. To prevent misuse, the Act provides that the offence shall not be investigated by an officer below the rank of an Inspector of Police, and that no prosecution shall be instituted without the sanction of the Magistrate of the District or an equivalent authority. The Act was passed in 1967. Rules under it were not framed till November, 1989, Justice Wadhwa notes. The Rules are salutary, and will repay a moment's attention:
"3(i) Each District Magistrate shall maintain a list of religious institutions or organizations propagating religious faith in his district and that of persons directly or indirectly engaged for propagation of religious faith in the district. "(ii) The District Magistrate, if he thinks fit, may call for a list of persons with the religious faith, receiving benefits either in cash or in kind from the religious organizations or institutions or from any person connected therewith. "4. Any person intending to convert his religion shall give a declaration before a Magistrate, 1st Class, having jurisdiction prior to such conversion that he intends to convert his religion on his own will. "5(i) The concerned religious priest shall intimate the date, time and place of the ceremony in which conversion shall be made along with the names and addresses of the persons to be converted to the concerned District Magistrate before fifteen days of the said ceremony. "(ii) The intimation shall be in Form A and shall be delivered either personally by the Priest to the concerned District Magistrate or sent to him by registered post with acknowledgment due. "6. The District Magistrate on receiving the intimation from the priest shall sign thereon stating the date on which and the hour at which the intimation has been delivered to him or received by him, and shall forthwith acknowledge the receipt thereof in Form B. "7. The District Magistrate shall maintain a register of conversion in Form C and shall cover therein particulars of the intimation received by him. "8. Any person who contravenes the provisions of Rule 5 or 6 shall be liable to a fine of Rupees one thousand. "9. The District Magistrate shall by the 10th of each month send to the State Government a report of intimations received by him during the preceding month in Form D."
That is the law. And what is the reality? Justice Wadhwa reports: "No one was aware of the Freedom of Religion Act or the Rules framed thereunder in the State at least in the districts of Mayurbhanj and Keonjhar. These provisions of law were lying dormant and (had) never (been) put into operation for the last many years. Admittedly, there were conversions to Christianity in these two districts. No person intending to convert his religion ever gave a declaration before a Magistrate prior to such conversion of his intent to convert his religion on his own will which was the requirement of Rule 4. Similarly also the religious priest did not give intimation of such conversion as per Form A under the Rules. District Magistrate did not maintain a register of conversion as per Form prescribed. Since they did not make any record of conversions, they did not send any report of conversion to the State Government. "Mr. Balakrishnan, District Magistrate, Mayurbhanj and Mr. Saurabh Garg, District Magistrate, Keonjhar were examined to know if any action (had been) taken under the Freedom of Religion Act and the Rules framed thereunder. They expressed ignorance of the provisions of the law relating to conversion and said they had become aware of these only after the incident at Manoharpur on the night of 22 / 23-1-1999. To me, it appears that even now they do not understand the full scope and intent of the provisions of the Orissa Freedom of Religion Act and the Rules. These are salutary provisions and prohibit conversion from one religion to another by the use of force, inducement or by any fraudulent means. Even any abetment to such conversion has been made an offence. If these provisions of law, in my view, are strictly followed no one can have any grievance to contend that gullible and innocent tribals are being converted." The Commission asked the Advocate General for a report on prosecutions under the Act. From 1967 to 1990, the Advocate General informed the Commission, the Act was not enforced as its constitutional vires had been challenged. Since then -- that is, in nine years -- 10 cases had been registered. In one case the accused had been discharged. In one case he had been acquitted. In regard to two the Final Report had been submitted. And six were pending trial. The lesson -- a cruel one -- shouts at us: as this is the attitude of the State machinery to law, the Dara Singhs will continue to become heroes with the local population.
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 20 2004, 02:13 AM
> Worth posting in full: from: bharatvani > Who Killed Australian Missionary Graham Staines? > -Arun Shourie And yet ppl who have read this will continue to repeat christian propaganda. Sandhya Jain and Gurumurthy have been called incompetent & writing w/o proof , they will say the same abt AS. I wonder why Arun Shourie continues to write for Indian Express, if et all he wants his writing to be read by max ppl perhaps writeups shld go to TOI, for TOI ireespective of its policy gets widley "distributed" ! Indian Express is really going overboard with Titles like "M for Modi - M for Murder Plot", if that is journalism , I cld say every Nehru-Gandhi family PM arranged killing for sitting Nehru-Gandhi PM to acquire the throne ? Indian Express and Goenkas are firmly in grip of Church..
Posted by: Hauma Hamiddha Jun 20 2004, 02:00 PM
Posted by: Mudy Jun 21 2004, 11:11 AM
The Principal of Government School of Nursing drove a Hindu student to suicide in her over-zealous act of persuasion for conversion to Christianity. .... It is reported that Principal Velengani is a blind follower of Christianity and was discrimina-ting even in sanctioning leave to Hindu students. Further, whenever Hindu students requested her for leave, she used to retort by telling them to convert to Christianity and enjoy the benefit of more leave. The Principal is also reported to have threatened to give lower marks to students who failed to get converted to Christianity.
Posted by: Viren Jun 21 2004, 03:03 PM
A very interesting conversation.
On January 2nd, 1937 a Professor of Philosophy from Poland, Krzenski came to see Gandhiji. Krzanski told Gandhiji that Catholicism was the only true religion. "Do you therefore say that other religions are untrue?" Gandhiji asked. Krzenski: "If others are convinced that their religions are true they are saved." Gandhiji: "Therefore, you will say that everyone would be saved even through untruth. For you say that if a man really and sincerely believes in what is as a matter of fact untruth, he is saved. Would you not also hold, therefore, that your own way may be untrue but that you are convinced that it is true and therefore you will be saved?" Krzenski: "But I have studied all religions and have found that mine is the only true religion." Gandhiji: "But so have others studied other religions. What about them? Well, I go further and tell you that religion is one and it has several branches which are all equal." Krzenski: "I accept that no religion lacks divine inspiration but all have not the same truth, because all have not the same light." Gandhiji: "It is an essentially untrue position to take, for a seeker after truth, that he alone is in absolute possession of truth. What is happening to the poor astronomers today? They are changing their position every day, and there are scientists who impeach even Einstein's latest theory." Krzenski: "No. But I have examined the arguments in favour of other religions." Gandhiji: "But it is an intellectual examination. You require different scales to weigh spiritual truth. Either we are all untrue -- quite a logical position to take -- but, since truth does not come out of untruth, it is better to say that we all have truth but not the complete truth. For God reveals His truth to instruments that are imperfect. Raindrops of purest distilled water become diluted or polluted as soon as they come in contact with mother earth. My submission is that your position is arrogant. But I suggest to you a better position. Accept all religions as equal, for all have the same root and the same laws of growth." Krzenski: "It is necessary to examine every religion philosophically and find out which is more harmonious, more perfect." Gandhiji: "That presupposes that all religions are in watertight compartments. That is wrong. They are always growing. Let us not limit God's function. He may reveal Himself in a thousand ways and a thousand times." Now the Professor switched on to the next question viz., that of fighting materialism. Gandhiji: "It is no use trying to fight these forces without giving up the idea of conversion, which I assure you is the deadliest poison that ever sapped the fountain of truth." Krzenski: "But I have a great respect for your religion." Gandhiji: "Not enough. I had that feeling myself one day, but I found that it was not enough. Unless I accept the position that all religions are equal, and I have as much regard for other religions as I have for my own, I would not be able to live in the boiling war around me. Any make-believe combination of spiritual forces is doomed to failure if this fundamental position is not accepted. I read and get all my inspiration from the Gita. But I also read the Bible and the Koran to enrich my own religion. I incorporate all that is good in other religions." Krzenski: "That is your goodwill." Gandhiji: "That is not enough." Krzenski: "But I have great respect for you." Gandhiji: "Not enough. If I were to join the Catholic church you would have greater respect for me." Krzenski: "Oh yes, if you became a Catholic, you would be as great as St. Francis." Gandhiji: "But not otherwise? A Hindu cannot be a St. Francis? Poor Hindu!" Krzenski: "But may Take your photograph?" Gandhiji: "No, surely you don't care for materialism! And it is all materialism, isn't it?" (The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi, Vol 64, pp. 203-4) Gandhiji's acuity and wit! On the other side, the trap the dogma of certainties lays for its adherents.
Posted by: mitradena Jun 21 2004, 05:18 PM
Krzenski: "It is necessary to examine every religion philosophically and find out which is more harmonious, more perfect."
Krzenski is absolutely correct. It is necessary to determine which religion is the most perfect. According to my analysis it is Hinduism (Vaidika Sanatana Dharma). Why? Because other religions simply talk about God, but Hinduism tells you how to actually see God.
Posted by: Bhootnath Jun 22 2004, 11:37 AM n the past year, coverage of religious issues has focused tightly on two themes-the present and future dangers of Islamic fundamentalism, and the scandal in the American Catholic Church.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jun 28 2004, 07:44 PM
The book 'Holy Vedas And Holy Bible' by Kanayalal M. Talreja is on-line at Bharatvani. The link is as follows:
Posted by: Mudy Jun 29 2004, 04:37 PM**~abuse:~Indian~priest~faces~charges~in~US
Posted by: acharya Jun 29 2004, 05:31 PM
Monotheism blamed for history's bloodshed Author: Ira Rifkin Publication: The Star Date: June 13, 2004 URL: pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1086949562408&call _pageid=991479973472&col=991929131147 Polytheism embraces pluralism, author says Politics motivated Constantine's faith Religious differences fuel many of the world's violent conflicts, detractors and supporters of organized faith often lament in unison. Author Jonathan Kirsch would put a finer point on the charge. He blames the leading monotheistic religions — Judaism, Christianity and Islam — for much of history's bloodshed. The reason, he maintains, is monotheism's traditional claim to exclusive possession of absolute truth. Too bad Julian the Apostate, the Roman Empire's last pagan emperor, died young in battle, says Kirsch, author of God Against The Gods: The History Of The War Between Monotheism And Polytheism (Viking). Had Julian lived longer, he might have succeeded in reinstating classical Greco-Roman polytheism, which was marginalized when Emperor Constantine the Great institutionalized Christianity's ascendancy — and world history might have turned out more benign. "Julian is one of the great `what ifs?' of history," said Kirsch, an intellectual property lawyer. "Human history is the history of our evolution toward greater individual liberty. I have the nagging feeling that, at least in the West, we might have gotten there faster and in a more direct way had Julian lived." Polytheism, the belief that there can be more than one god, was the ancient world's dominant religious system. Today it survives chiefly in Hinduism, in tribal traditions, in Afro-Caribbean faiths, and in Wicca and other neo-pagan movements that are growing in North America and Western Europe. Greco-Roman polytheism reached its philosophical peak in Neo- Platonism, which emphasized ethical behaviour and the existence of a unifying transcendent reality. Polytheism's core value, Kirsch writes, is theological pluralism, a stark contrast to traditional monotheism's penchant for insisting that the "One God" demands theological conformity. And religious freedom, the 54-year-old Kirsch said in a telephone interview, paves the way for public differences of opinion on other topics as well. In his book, Kirsch begins the story of monotheism's rise with Akthenaton, the 14th century B.C. Egyptian pharaoh and proto-monotheist. (Kirsch skips the biblical prophets Abraham and Moses, whose historical reality he rejects as unproven.) Not until the reign of King Josiah, the 7th century B.C. ruler of the Jewish kingdom of Judah, did the biblical Israelites fully elevate their chief god, Yahweh, to the status of the "One God." "Judaism as a faith of strict monotheism can be said to begin with King Josiah," said Kirsch. Kirsch devotes the greater part of his book to the reigns of Constantine, who embraced Christianity and made it Rome's official faith in the 4th century, and Julian the Apostate, Constantine's nephew who briefly restored polytheism to its traditional place in the Roman pantheon for one last time. Christian writers emphasize Constantine's faith conversion as the root of his Christianity. Kirsch emphasizes Constantine's political motivations. He writes that Constantine's "preference for monotheism over polytheism reflected his own ambition to achieve the same absolute power on earth that the Christian god was believed to exercise in heaven." Likewise, Kirsch continues, Constantine convened the Council of Nicaea in 325 — out of which Christian tradition says came the faith's central statement of doctrine, the Nicene Creed — more out of a desire to impose control over an increasingly unwieldy church than out of concern for theological clarity in pursuit of spiritual truths. Julian — who came to full power in 360, following Constantine's death and after some years of nasty internecine intrigue — was a pagan counter-revolutionary who restored religious legitimacy to classical Greco-Roman polytheism. However, Kirsch emphasizes, Julian did not try to eradicate monotheism as Rome's Christian rulers had sought for polytheism. Julian instead sought to place polytheism and Christianity on equal footing. "That's what's most appealing about polytheism — its openness to accommodating the faiths of others," said Kirsch. Kirsch may have a sweet spot for polytheism, but he fully acknowledges that polytheists, including pre-Christian Romans, can be as brutish as fervent monotheists (his term for fanatical fundamentalists). The only difference between violent polytheists and violent monotheists is that the former kill to gain political control and the latter kill to assert theological dominance. The difference is subtle, said Kirsch, but important. Polytheists sought control over the public sphere alone; monotheists sought control over private thoughts as well. Kirsch noted that traditional monotheists generally dismiss his writing as uninformed and anti-faith. Yet he insists that he is a "Jewish monotheist." "I recite the Sh'ma (Judaism's creedal statement of monotheistic orthodoxy), but I also entertain the idea that there are many ways that people perceive the one, true God. My beliefs are not threatened by dissenting views." Kirsch recounted a Buddhist aphorism to sum up his religious beliefs: "One moon, many pools. Many pools, one moon." The point, he explained, is that light from a single source can be reflected in many ways.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jun 29 2004, 05:56 PM
Julian would not have succeeded.. sad.gif The fight is essentially one-sided - when one side says "both of us are right" while the other side says "only i am right" the odds would have been against him. We are seeing that repeating again in the Indian context - slooowly and steadily.
Posted by: acharya Jul 1 2004, 07:04 PM Christianity in India Introduction Christians constitute the second largest religious minority in India next to Islam. The 21 million Christians in India account for 2 percent of the total population. With 16.5 million adherents to the faith, Roman Catholics form the largest single Christian group in India. There are approximately 4.5 adherents to the Protestant faith (Europa 1740). The heaviest concentration of Christians is in the state of Kerala, which is one of the oldest Christian communities in the world. Graphically, the distribution of Christians in India is isolated among four southern states (Kooliman 4). A Brief History Due to the lack of documentary evidence, the origin of Christianity in India has been the subject of controversy among historians. According to tradition and legend, Apostle Thomas went west to India and started the church in A.D. 52. Following established trade routes, he converted many to Christianity, including members of the royal family (Mundadan 25). Following his example, many other foreign missionaries made numerous converts to Christianity. In the 16th century, Jesuit Saint Francis Xavier expanded the Christian community westward evangelizing to those from the lower caste and outcastes. The ideals of humility and the rejection of worldly possession associated with Christianity appealed to the early Christians. Christianity was thought of as "the religion of the poor" (Kooliman 102). Beginning in the eighteenth century, Protestant missionaries began to work throughout India that lead to the growth of Christian communities (Bogard; Mayhew 47). "These new Christians were almost exclusively recruited from the poorest and most degraded sections of society" (Kooliman 5). Trade and Christianity The insatiable interest in India began with business conducted by the East India Trading Company. Dealing with more then mere trading concerns, the trading company became a ruling power in India. From 1770-1818, "through wars and annexations almost three fourth of India was to come under the control of the Company" (Pathak 3). Interestingly, many of the Christians of St. Thomas harvested pepper. "Pepper growing was almost their sole monopoly" (Mundadan 155). The members of the church grew most of the pepper that was exported to Portugal. Difficulties of the Christian Mission in India One of the gravest problems facing Christianity in India is the problem of adaptation. Despite Hindu willingness to adapt Christianity into their religious system, Christians have encountered difficulties with Indians unwilling to compromise their own beliefs. Many Indians refused to believe in the absolutism of Christian theology. The doctrine of Christianity that was most problematic was the proclamation of Christianity as the only true religion, viewing it as a manifestation of the hated colonialism. The assimilation of Christianity into the Indian populous required an incorporation of Christianity within the regimes of Indian culture. For this same reason, "Indian Christians have Indianized their churches and tried to end their dependence on foreign missions" (Borgard). An example of the challenges in India manifests with the treatment of traditional clothing. In a culture, where clothing represents social status, one of the most evident forms of discrimination forbade the people of the lower caste to cover the upper part of the body. A bare breast was seen as a sign of respect to those considered to be higher status (Kooliman 148-49). In reaction to the custom, the missionary ladies implemented a jacket (ravakkay) to cover up the upper portion of the body. However, it did not meet the standards of the Christian Indians. Sparking waves of violence between the castes, in 1814, a proclamation was given permitting Christian Indian women to cover their bosom, but not in a manner identical to the women of the higher caste. In addition, the proclamation stated, women of the lower caste were not permitted "to act towards persons of higher caste contrary to the usages of their own caste before they [became] Christians" (Kooliman 150). Impact of Christianity on Hinduism One of the biggest projects of the Christians missions was to educate. The goals of the missions included "education of all kinds and grades, among their instruments for the evangelization of India" (Mayhew 161). Success of the colonization largely depended on the 'enlightenment of India by Christian secondary schools and colleges" (Mayhew 161). The British Government provided most of the funding. However, the inherent combination of Christianity and education derived from western civilization jeopardized the governmentís stance of religious neutrality. Important Figures of Christianity in India Ram Mohan, the "father of modern India," was an important Hindu leader who assimilated Christian ideals and ethics to reform the social abuses of India. He "renounced idolatry at the age of sixteen" and "devoted himself to the study of the Bible in Hebrew and Greek" (Mayhew 171). He did not accept the divinity of Christ, but was ìstrongly attracted to the personality of Christ and to his moral teachings." He improved the moral and social conditions of India. He started the Brahmo Samaj (City of God) by conducting weekly meeting to incorporate Christian ethics with the best of Hinduism. What they saw as the best parts of Christianity were worshipping God by love and good deeds, and abstinence from idolatry (Boygard). One of the most successful leaders in religious conversions from Hinduism to Christianity was native Indian, Vedanayagam Samuel Azariah. "He was the first and only native Indian bishop of an Anglican diocese from 1912 until his death in 1945" (Harper 1). With the large responsibilities of being in charge of all Anglican missions came difficulties within the internal community of the church. Many felt that "the consecration was fueling destructive Indian ambitions and signaled a dangerous change in status between Indian And European Christians" (Harper 227). Dealing with language, culture, and different denominations, he embodied the conflicts and challenges of both Christian evangelism and British rule. He also bridged the differences between ordinary Indians and British elite during the turbulent period of the imperial associations. Azariah is known to be someone would not compromise the doctrines of Christianity and Indian culture. Christianity Today Despite the waves of missionaries to India under colonial rule, the number of Christians in India remains small, especially in comparison to the total Indian population of 846,302,688 (Europa 1726). In 1947 and 1970, the creation of the Church of South India and Church of North India decreased the affiliations among Protestant churches. However, representations of small fundamentalist sects still exist throughout India creating a kaleidoscopic conglomeration of peoples, languages, cultures, perspectives, theologies and practices. Christians and churches relate to surrounding society in vastly differing ways, from being a dominant force in Kerala, a significant influence in other southern and northeastern states, to a desperately weak minority in the main body of India (Europa 1740).
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jul 3 2004, 11:45 AM
My group is doing anti-missionary work in this area We need donors after verification by me G.S ------ Idol found smashed in suburb temple NT Bureau Chennai, July 3: The sleepy suburb of Pallavaram, especially around Periamalai area, today woke up to tension and tumult as a temple idol was found smashed to smithereens by unidentified miscreants. A trident and a previously mutilated peacock statue in the temple were also found broken. This morning the authorities of the local Balamurugan temple found the Dakshayini Amman (Devi)idol destroyed (presumably with a sledgehammer), with the pieces strewn all around the place. The Amman's sari was torn and found spread over a nearby thorny bush. The temple's main trustee, Raghupathy, who has been looking after the temple affairs for the last several years, immediately alerted the police and filed a formal complaint. The police, who arrived at the scene, have taken the broken pieces for further investigation. Though officials were tight-lipped on who could have committed this shameful act, the locals were more vocal. Many residents of the area were openly pointing fingers at a Christian group that was 'notoriously active' in the area. The names of a local Panchayat leader and a Pastor were openly bandied about by the residents. The Periamalai area was already sitting on a communal powder keg due to the confrontational and provocative attitude of a Pentecost group that specifically targetted the local Balamurugan temple. The group, which used to be very active on full-moon nights (yesterday was one), has a history of creating trouble for those coming to worship at the temple. The residents had made several complaints that the cult group had chosen the place to carry out their brazen expansion activities 12 churches have come up in the last few years within the small circumference of Pallavaram. The religious group also used to gather up at Periamalai (a small hillock) regularly and shout out taunting remarks at Hindus and openly deride Hindu Gods. Locals say the Christians brought in women, who were purportedly Hindus, and then asked them to throw their mettis and thalis into a fire. After the locals took up the issue with the police, a check-post on the entry road to the hillock was put up a few years back to prevent any meeting in the night. But some time later, the check-post was damaged by some miscreants and the night show of evangelism continued. However, the locals applied pressure with the authorities and got another check-post in the area. Long-time residents of the locality also got a Court order some time back restraining the Christians from 'encroaching' into the land belonging to the Murugan temple. After last night's act of vandalism by some bigoted minds, security has been put up at the temple. The tension in the area is palpable and looks like the residents of the sleepy suburb are set for some sleepless nights. UNGODLY ACT: The pedestal of the Dakshayini Amman at the Balamurugan temple in Pallavaram tells the tale of vandal's act. The idol was smashed to bits using a sledgehammer and the remnants were strewn all around.
Posted by: Mudy Jul 3 2004, 12:29 PM
If it Church or Mosque every SOB would have been releasing statements and condenming Hindus, But no will raise any fingure on ....religion of peace devilsmiley.gif
Many residents of the area were openly pointing fingers at a Christian group that was 'notoriously active' in the area. The names of a local Panchayat leader and a Pastor were openly bandied about by the residents. The Periamalai area was already sitting on a communal powder keg due to the confrontational and provocative attitude of a Pentecost group that specifically targetted the local Balamurugan temple. The group, which used to be very active on full-moon nights (yesterday was one), has a history of creating trouble for those coming to worship at the temple. The residents had made several complaints that the cult group had chosen the place to carry out their brazen expansion activities 12 churches have come up in the last few years within the small circumference of Pallavaram. The religious group also used to gather up at Periamalai (a small hillock) regularly and shout out taunting remarks at Hindus and openly deride Hindu Gods. Locals say the Christians brought in women, who were purportedly Hindus, and then asked them to throw their mettis and thalis into a fire
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jul 4 2004, 09:36 PM
A reminder, my group is working in this area Any hindu who is outraged, please put your money where your mouth is We need donors Contact me by private email
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jul 5 2004, 11:59 AM
"I want to convey my thanks to those who have sent checks for rebuilding of temples which are recently distroyed by Xitian missionaries in India. Please keep on sending token help even if it is small, which can help us to protect and revive our temples." A few members of this forum have contributed and I wish to thank them but many more need to contribute
Posted by: Bhootnath Jul 6 2004, 06:52 AM
'Church backing Tripura rebels' For Kids : Rebels means terrorist
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jul 7 2004, 07:31 PM,12271,1256507,00.html Sex abuse claims bankrupt church Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent Thursday July 8, 2004 The Guardian The Roman Catholic archdiocese of Oregon has become the first in the US to file for bankruptcy protection in response to increasing accusations of priestly sexual abuse of children and the prospect of more multimillion-dollar settlements to add to the $53m (£29m) it has already had to pay out. Its action came as the archdiocese was about to face two further claims from victims in court. Archbishop John Vlazny told a press conference: "The pot of gold is pretty much empty right now. This is not an effort to avoid responsibility. "It is, in fact, the only way I can assure that other claimants can be offered fair compensation. Major insurers have abandoned us and are not paying what they should on claims." Nationally, the Catholic church - the largest Christian denomination in the US, with 60 million adherents - is confronting a growing number of cases which have shaken its confidence and undermined its prestige. It has already paid out $572m to settle 10,600 claims against 4,392 priests in a scandal which has already cost one cardinal, Boston's Bernard Law, his job. Several other dioceses, including Stockton in California, Boston and Fall River in Massachusetts, Santa Fe in New Mexico and Tucson in Arizona, have announced they are contemplating filing for bankruptcy. Claims of sex abuse by former victims have inundated the Catholic church across the world, including in Europe and Australia. The hierarchy maintains the cases are the result of western secular decadence rather than systemic problems affecting a celibate priesthood. In Oregon, litigation from victims threatened to overwhelm the 356,000-strong archdiocese of the west-coast state, which faces a further 60 court cases. So far 196 people have filed accusations against 41 priests in claims dating back to the early 1950s. Its settlements are second only to those of Boston, which has paid out $85m. One of the latest cases was being brought by a 51-year-old cattle rancher, James Devereux, who is seeking $130m damages for abuse he claims he suffered at the hands of a priest, Father Maurice Grammond, in the 60s when he was a teenage altar boy. The other case, involving the same priest in the 1980s, was brought by an anonymous litigant who claimed he was abused between the ages of eight and 10. Grammond, who died at the age of 82 in 2002, is the source of many of the cases against the church, whose officials are accused of ignoring complaints against the priest and moving him on to new parishes whenever they surfaced - said to be a common feature of the church's handling of alleged serial abusers. Grammond, who has been accused of abusing at least 50 boys during a 40-year career, was said to have molested boys in his car, in the rectory, on camping trips and even during confessions - but was never prosecuted. He apparently claimed that he had no responsibility because children "threw themselves" at him. The bankruptcy filing halted immediate litigation, although David Slader, Mr Devereux's lawyer, claimed that the archdiocese controlled assets worth half a billion dollars. Most of that property, however, is owned by parishes and institutions such as schools rather than the archdiocese. The archdiocese has settled 100 cases since 1950, but only eight have gone to trial. Mr Slader said: "What happened today is not about the archdiocese trying to avoid the financial consequences of its conduct. They know they will pay those consequences, even in a bankruptcy court. It is about them preventing or trying to prevent a full public airing of the whole history of the cover-up of child abuse crimes by a succession of archbishops." He said Mr Devereux had wanted his day in court as much as the financial settlement. Mr Devereux added: "The archdiocese filed for bankruptcy today but they have been morally bankrupt my entire life." The diocese claimed it had cut all budgets by between 30 and 50% and laid off 20 staff, but Jeffrey Anderson, a Minnesota lawyer who has brought more than 100 cases against the church, was quoted by the Washington Post as saying: "I think it is a strategic move by the bishops nationally to try to blame victims for their problems."
Posted by: Kaushal Jul 7 2004, 09:32 PM
Apparently there is such a plethora of lawsuits against the church because of the large number of child abuse cases, that the diocese is filing bankruptcy. But fear not all is well. All the guilty padres have sworn they were secular. How so you might ask. They are secular simply because they are not Hindu. By ELI SANDERS Published: July 8, 2004
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jul 8 2004, 04:42 AM
I read an article which says that they have uncovered documentation going back to 300 AD, wherein child molestation and sex scandals were common in the catholic church
Posted by: Bhootnath Jul 9 2004, 04:48 AM This is how they retain their HOLD. Let us remember this , for SECULAR and XTIANS will later remind us how they Served the ppl of india 'SELFLESSLY".. Professional colleges: Christian groups warn of stir By Our Staff Reporter KOTTAYAM, JULY 8. Various Christian congregations under the auspices of Kristhava Vidyabhyasa Avakasha Samrakshana Samithy (Christian Educational Rights Protection Committee) have threatened to launch joint agitation against the Bill on Unaided Professional Colleges passed by Kerala Assembly. Leaders of the committee told reporters here today the agitation will be launched at a public meeting being organised here on July 11. The meeting will be inaugurated by Catholicose Baselios Marthoma Mathews II, the Head of the Malankara Orthodox Syrian Church. Major Archbishop Varkey Cardinal Vithayathil of the Syro-Malabar Church will preside. According to the leaders of the committee, the Bill passed by the Kerala Assembly would result in the closure of the unaided professional colleges. The Bill not only violates the directives of the Supreme Court in this regard, but also negates the Constitutional provisions on minority rights,they said. The provisions of the Bill protects the interests of the wealthy in society and only institutions being run by the wealthy business groups would benefits by the provisions, they alleged. The Bill would only help destroy the minority communities in the State, both educationally andsocially, they said. Dubbing the Bill as the latest method in making an assault on the interests of the minorities, they said the Bill, if enacted, would encourage corruption. The organisers of the agitation said that the Bill would provide the State with the right to interfere in the functioning of the minority institutions. It was against this backdrop, that the various Christian congregations have joined hands to fight against the ulterior motives of the State Government, they said. The committee chairman, M. D. Joseph Manniparambil, Gregory Paruvaparambil, John Kachiramattom and others participated in the press conference.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jul 9 2004, 05:55 AM
Conversions continue to be rampant: Hindu leader NT Bureau user posted image Hindu Munnani leader Ramagopalan at the Periyamalai Balamurugan temple where the idol of Goddess Dakshayini was destroyed last week by a few Christian miscreants. Hindu Acharya Sabha's S V Badri and others are also seen Chennai, July 9: 'It is time for Hindus to safeguard themselves from the onslaught of religious conversions, which are rampant in the country. For instance, in the southern district of Kanniyakumari, nearly 45 per cent of the population has been 'successfully' converted to Christianity, while in the last few days, a total of 24 idols of Hindu gods and goddesses have been vandalised in the district', Hindu Munnani founder Rama Gopalan has said. Speaking to devotees during his visit to the Periyamalai Balamurugan temple in Pallavaram Wednesday, where the presiding deity of Goddess Dakshayini was destroyed by 'unidentified miscreants', a few days ago, Rama Gopalan, expressing his anguish at the incident, said, it was a barbaric act aimed at creating confusion among the people. 'The attacks on Hindu deities have increased in the recent days and Hindus are left with no other option but to safeguard themselves. Whoever had committed this shameful act should be brought to book irrespective of his caste or creed,' he said. He also warned that the Hindu Munnnani volunteers would stage protests if the perpetrators of the violence are not nabbed immediately. Many residents of the area adjoining Periyamalai Balamurugan temple have pointed fingers at a Christian group that was 'notoriously active' in the area and also on a few Pentecost groups that thronged the hill every night to carry out prayers. Hindu Munnani leader Ramagopalan at the Periyamalai Balamurugan temple where the idol of Goddess Dakshayini was destroyed last week by a few miscreants. Hindu Acharya Sabha's S V Badri and others are also seen. The members of the cult groups regularly shout out taunting remarks at Hindus and openly deride Hindu gods and even indulged in expansion activities. The Hindu Munnani leader after interacting with a few devotees, said 'when there are more than a lakh churches in Chennai alone, why should these men and women take to a hill and pray all night. The very fact that the hill is located close to international airport, unlawful gathering of such groups should be prevented, which otherwise would become a threat to national security', he added. Stating that Christian missionaries involved in religious conversions are broadening their base in the State, Ramagopalan urged the Hindus to stand united and put an end to such nefarious activities. 'Let's us stand united and save ourselves', he said. He said a major portion of Thiruparankundram Skandhar Malai has been encroached upon by Muslims, who claim it to be Sikandhar Malai. New Muslim and Christian structures are coming up around Pudukottai, Villathikulam and other southern districts. 'It is our prime duty to reclaim those lands', he said. In the name of rights of minorities, the wicked acts of these groups get justified by various political groups, he said and added that unless a solution is arrived at soon, the situation would go out of control. Ragupathy, trustee, Balamurugan Temple, S V Badri of Hindu Acharya Sabha and a large number of devotees were present during the meeting at the temple
Posted by: shyam Jul 12 2004, 11:49 AM Click on Hindu peoples : Look at their ways of targeting the people for conversion.
Posted by: AJay Aug 2 2004, 11:14 AM
Received in email. A couple of years back, Ravi Zachariawas on the local NPR station giving a call-in interview. I could catch only about 15 mins. of the program. He did not sound that overtly bigotted, but reading between the lines/hearing between sentences, I had this uncomfortable feeling that he was being very charming like a snake-oil salesman. Looks like he has come out of the closet. Could somebody who has access to the India Abroad article post it here, please? HAF responds to Hindu Phobic Evangelist in India Abroad Printed on page A2 of India Abroad - July 9th, 2004 July 9, 2004 To: Editorial Office, India Abroad From: Executive Council, Hindu American Foundation, Inc. Re: Interview with Ravi Zacharias (IA, June 25, 2004) Dear Editor: We are disheartened to read the comments made by Ravi Zacharias on Hinduism and Buddhism during his interview with Shakti Bhatt [India Abroad, June 25, 2004, A29]. His misrepresentations of the essence and principles of these spiritual traditions reflect his own ignorance and bigotry rather than any deficiency within Hinduism and Buddhism. While Mr. Zacharias sees the complexity and layers of meaning within Hinduism as being "confused" and "inconsistent," he lacks the understanding or respect to recognize the underlying harmony and wisdom of the diversity of strands of thought within it. Mr. Zacharias is right in noting that Hinduism encompasses traditions ranging from atheism to pantheism and just about everything in between them. However, this plurality of traditions does not symbolize any internal contradictions or inconsistency. A true Hindu knows that his own path, whether it is that of bhakti, karma, gyana, or raja-yoga, is but one of many and has equal respect for all the winding paths that lead to the same Truth called by different names. The true Hindu recognizes that individual souls are like raindrops falling along their own unique path to the same ocean. The true Hindu does not need to judge the path taken by others as being good or bad, right or wrong, because she knows that the destination is the same, that all paths lead to the same goal. Different expressions of the truth do not reveal any underlying contradiction. There are layers and levels of meaning, and the expression of them changes with time. Neither Hinduism nor Buddhism, nor any system of philosophy based on dharma, are stagnant. They are constantly evolving systems, perpetually adapting and customizing themselves to meet the needs of societies and cultures as they change and grow over time. While the underlying essence of Truth is changeless, the way it is expressed and manifested constantly changes according to place, time, and context. Human beings are ever evolving and with this evolution comes deeper understanding of the profound truths of all religions. This is why there is such a diversity of traditions and practices within Hinduism today. Mr. Zacharias is gleeful in pointing out purported skeletons in the closets of non-Christian religions. While all cultures have their failings, he is unfair in focusing only on the societal problems confronting Eastern religions. While the foibles of the East may be more obvious and repugnant to him, it is because of his own ideology and biases that he cannot analyze or evaluate these cultures in a fair and balanced manner. Messianic zeal and a need to convert, to show others as being less worthy, less deserving of respect and acceptance, subvert his commentary into a superficial and bigoted condemnation of all that is non-Christian. The correlation of the rise of prostitution in Thailand with Buddhism is a completely false and egregious allegation, as correlation does not in any way indicate causation. Socioeconomic circumstances and the exploitation carried out by foreign tourists are responsible for the situation, not the spiritual ethos of Buddhism. It would be just as inappropriate to hold Christianity responsible for slavery, colonialism, the genocide of Native Americans, the Holocaust, and the pedophilia of Catholic priests. As for the sweeping generalization that Hinduism does not recognize the individual dignity of each person, that is yet another false stereotype. Hinduism sees all beings as manifestations of divinity and acknowledges the unity underlying all living forms, so that every single living being, not just humans, are to be respected and honored. Mr. Zacharias' comments are an affront to all those who believe in tolerance, pluralism, and understanding. We hope that Mr. Zacharias will reconsider his views and that India Abroad, as a respectable publication for all Indians, will provide the space for alternate views challenging such prejudice and misrepresentations to be aired. Sincerely, Aditi Banerjee Member, Executive Council Pawan Deshpande Member, Executive Council Please visit Hindu American Foundation. Now you can use HAF's secure, online Paypal payment system to support the efforts and vision of Hindu American Foundation.
Posted by: acharya Aug 2 2004, 01:59 PM We have these people in Universities playing with the lives of millions of people in the world and discussing how they can harm them more. The Leonard E. Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life Trinity College, Hartford CT Religious Persecution as a U.S. Policy Issue Introduction Participants Contents II. Religious Persecution in China and India Mickey Spiegel (China): The concern of the Chinese authorities is not so much with cracking down on religious expression as it is making certain that none of these groups becomes a political force. That’s the bottom line. Still, the state is, by its own admission, an atheist state and it makes no bones about the fact that in the short term the Chinese leadership will tolerate religious belief, but that the end product will be a totally atheist society. Falun Gong is a form of practice that combines meditation and exercise. The number of adherents in China runs conservatively to two million. Those are the government figures; almost 60 or 70 million by other counts. The whole issue may have changed the party’s perception of where the danger to stability and to the preeminence of the Chinese communist party is coming from. Indeed, there are major concerns with stability in China today. There’s a significant unemployment problem. There’s a huge problem in the countryside because of excessive taxes, corruption, and fees. And all of that plays into some of this policy. And in fact, one of the disturbing things for the Chinese leadership with this Falun Gong problem is the fact that this is an urban, as opposed to a rural, phenomenon. Religion in China is thought of as primarily a rural area phenomenon—primarily women, and primarily older folks. But what they’re seeing now is taking place in the cities. I think what is alarming to the government is the realization that the attraction of some kind of belief system for Chinese people is coming not from Western religions but from traditional sources: from Buddhism, which is certainly growing in China, and from popular religion—from all of the traditional religious practices. There has been a major push to control sects and cults that are outside of the five major religions. I think we’re going to see new regulations. One of the things that the Chinese government and party have been very clear about in the last few years is not to use the methods of control that have brought international condemnation. They are not putting people in jail for long periods of time. They are not beating up on people in the ways that they had been before. They are doing this crackdown by what is called "rule by law." They have regulations in place on what religions can and cannot do. They have regulations in place on associations. Even when registered these groups must remain small, local, discreet, and scattered. Another issue—and I think it’s an issue that is very important for this bill—is the whole issue of the impossibility of taking religion out, of making a hierarchy of human rights concerns. There is almost no way of dealing with issues of religious freedom without dealing with issues of association, assembly, and free press. And I think that’s one of the major concerns of Human Rights Watch. If a monk or a nun in Tibet gets up and holds a sign up that says, "Freedom for Tibet" and the Chinese decide to arrest that person, that is not an issue of religious persecution, that is an issue of freedom of expression, and freedom of association. And I think we have been very, very careful to separate out the independent issues from the issues of religious freedom. And this is not, by the way, to suggest that there aren’t enormous issues pertaining to religious freedom in Tibet and in Xinjiang both. Those issues are in many respects very, very similar. But nevertheless, we have to make that distinction. Smita Narula (India): I am sure many of you are aware of increasing attacks on Christians in India. Probably the most highlighted example in the media has been the attack on missionary Graham Staines and his two sons in the state of Orissa. They were burned to death while sleeping in their car by local Hindu extremists. There has been a lot of international scrutiny of the increasing violence against Christians in the country. From what I see in the India chapter of the State Department religion report, the U.S. government has also made its interventions. There is generally a lot more attention to communal violence in the country now than there was before when the victims of attacks were Muslims or other minorities. For the last 52 years India has entirely escaped any kind of international scrutiny of what’s been called India’s "hidden apartheid"—abuses stemming from the caste system. The international community has not paid any attention to the abuses because there are plenty of constitutional provisions and plenty of legislation to suggest that the country is actually doing something about the problem. Many convert to Christianity to escape abuses under the caste system. They find that the church’s focus on education, equality, literacy, and health services has a real pull for them. It draws them away from their poverty, from their state of bondage, or from the economic exploitation that they are facing in their rural communities. These converts are indeed at risk. For example, in a ten-day spate of violence in the state of Gujarat between December 1998 to January 1999, churches were burned or razed and people were forced to convert to Hinduism or robbed and assaulted in over 22 villages in the state. We went there in April to take a look at some of what was going on because we felt as though it was very indicative of patterns that are representative of attacks against Christians across the country. These patterns include the role of local Hindu groups as allied with the national groups in increasing anti-Christian propaganda, and the role of the media in promoting that propaganda. For example, the idea that the church has a conspiracy to convert 51 percent of humanity to Christianity by the dawn of the 21st century. And that after making inroads in Africa, India has now become their prime target. I was quite impressed at the focus on Muslims and Dalits [untouchables] as well as Christians in the State Department report, and with the accuracy with which a lot of the much more localized attacks were brought out—in a way that the media have not brought it out. But I think the final link of actually addressing the underlying problems is probably what’s missing in the U.S. and in the international community more generally. she is impressed by the SD report than from Indian reports Furthermore, it’s very easy for India to use intervention on Christianity or on religion and to turn it around to suit their purposes, by saying that there is a larger western conspiracy operating to promote Christianity throughout the country. I should add that Christians only form about 2.3 percent of the population in the country. So the fact that such charges are actually making inroads and having an effect I think has a lot more to do with those fears than any real belief that Hindus are going to be chased out of their own country. But it’s these greater issues of the caste system, of not implementing domestic legislation, and the issue of state complicity in allowing the attacks to continue, that really need to be addressed. It’s a very complicated situation. And the fact that India is not like China in that it does have a lot of constitutional protections and domestic legislation protecting minorities makes it a much trickier issue to deal with. In the recommendations in our caste violence report as well as the Christians report, we have tried to focus as much as possible on infrastructure and implementation of domestic legislation and not foreign legislation or even international law. They cannot accuse India of having state sponsered bias against minorities like in Pakistan and China which is ignored conviniently One of the nice things about working on India is that the NGO community and the secular community are incredibly vibrant. If there is a role that the international community can play, it is probably in pressing on improving and maybe even giving assistance to improving the type of infrastructure that is already in place in India, so as to facilitate honest and rigorous implementation of domestic legislation and constitutional provisions. There really has to be a much more holistic focus on what’s going on. I think that just addressing the issue of attacks on Christians, or on isolated incidents which are heinous and awful, without allowing those attacks to be illustrative of much more deep-rooted problems in the country and without taking advantage of the domestic tools that India itself provides would be a real lost opportunity. Response Jay Demerath: I am made very uncomfortable in countries around the world when I get complaints from well-meaning citizens about the U.S.’s moral meddling in their affairs. And I get these complaints even from people who you would think would gain from the U.S.’s role as a kind of policeman and vigilant monitor of rights. It makes me uneasy, especially when they then call to mind instances such as Waco or our policies towards Native Americans, our racial tensions and so on. I was struck when the bill, the IRFA bill, was justified as an extension of America’s longstanding concern for the free exercise of religion. That is true, it is a longstanding concern, but there is also a longstanding concern, as you know, lest religion be established. And I am struck by the way in which one could interpret the IRFA bill both ways, as an expression of free exercise but also an establishment of religion, especially if religion is yanked out of a list of priorities and given special pride of place. In some ways both China and India represent secular states, but very different kinds of secular states. In the case of China, the state is not only secular, but devoted to a national culture of secularism—indeed, atheism. And it’s hard to know quite where our rights begin and theirs end in pursuing their own ideological line. It is hard to know quite how to make a judgment about what the Chinese government sees in its national interest. It is quite clear that there are religious persecutions in China. Nobody really disputes that. But I sometimes wonder if we don’t need to hear more of the Chinese point of view in, for example, Tibet. I would want to know why the Chinese moved into Tibet against the Buddhist community as they did. What is the position of the Chinese government? Clearly there was a struggle for power and hegemony. But there was also talk about the land held by Buddhist monasteries in Tibet—land that could be distributed to the peasants. We need to understand any political or religious system from the standpoint of both victims and victimizers, both winners and losers. Clearly, there is a very different kind of problem in India. Where does one begin and end in meddling with Hinduism? Reforming Hinduism is like saying that the cosmos is going to be stopped and frozen at this point and we’re going to get rid of some aspect of it that offends us at the moment. To say that the untouchables of today are not going to suffer because of what happened in their previous lives is to tamper with a critical theodicy of the faith. On the other hand, we certainly know how this system can be abusive both from our point of view and from the viewpoint of others. None of this is easy, even in a globalizing world. In fact we often talk about the new "global village" in glib terms, when to many around the world it is a code word for a subtle form of Western imperialism. This is especially true when we are suspected of being most concerned about constraints upon our own proselytizing faiths in other lands. Discussion Lee Boothby: The underlying question—is this a form of neo-imperialism? How does one distinguish general progress toward societal improvement from imposition of alien values? I think the point was made very clearly by some of the panelists that the International Religious Freedom Act is expressly not geared to American standards but rather to international standards. Mickey Spiegel: I guess the question then becomes, if these are international standards why then are we not part of an international effort to make changes within some of the countries that we are concerned about? China, for example, has done an incredible job of bilateralizing the multilateral push within the United Nations Human Rights Commission by establishing a human rights dialogue with the United States and Australia and Japan and the UK and the European Union. It would behoove the United States and other countries to work within the United Nations system to try to implement some of those recommendations by the Special Rapporteur on Religious Intolerance. Abdullahi An-Na’im: As can be seen from the language of the Act and State Department report, this U.S. initiative is premised on an American understanding of religious freedom and practice, including notions of "disestablishment" or separation of church and state. This is problematic as a basis for the protection of freedom of religion at a global level because of fundamental differences about what "freedom of religion" means. For example, to those Muslims who believe that unity of Islam and the state or politics is an integral part of their faith, it is meaningless to speak of separation of the two as a matter of freedom of religion. On the contrary, those Muslims would want to use their freedom of religion to establish an "Islamic state." Smita Narula: On the idea of imperialism—thinking about this in the Indian context in particular as a cultural problem is very problematic because India’s domestic structure, legislation, and the entire tradition of having a secular democracy in India are premised on the notion that all religions should be treated equally and should be equally free to exercise their belief or their faith, and to propagate it. It makes India pretty unique in that regard. That there are human rights and basic freedoms I think is something that’s not just part of U.S. or Western values, but is also very much a part of Islamic tradition and Indian tradition. Jeremy Gunn: I think the discussion that we have been hearing is a very interesting microcosm of the larger issues that surround this problem. On the one hand, the U.S. government needs to be very sensitive to the issues that have been expressed here about how the United States presents itself and the perception that it is imposing Western values, Western ideas and notions, upon all parts of the world. On the other hand, virtually every international covenant prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, sex, religion, and language. They all say that. You do not hear, however, people saying "no discrimination on the basis of race" is a Western value or "no discrimination on the basis of language" is a Western value or "no discrimination on the basis of sex" is a Western value. The one place where the "Western value" comes up most strongly is on religion, although exactly the same language is used in the international covenants for race, sex, and language—but for religious freedom that somehow becomes a Western value. I would suggest that the reason that this happens is not because religious freedom really is a Western value, but because cultural prejudices and stereotypes are more strongly implanted in the area of religion than in any other area. This makes it very, very hard for people to see that what they think of as their values, their traditions, their histories, and their cultures may, in some instances, merely be prejudice against other religions—leading to scapegoating and demonizing of other religions. That is sometimes hard for people to see. The religious discrimination issue is frequently one of the blind spots in the human rights community. Sam Ericcson: Now, one of my problems with blind spots in the human rights community and in Washington D.C. is that there is good news. I know. I’ve been doing fundraising and the last thing you ever want to do in sending out a fundraising letter report is to report "good news." Fundraisers say you need to have 13 bad news stories a year to keep your books in balance. And sadly, the human rights community, Washington and the press in America—including the Christian press—want to demonize China. When baby steps of progress occur in China there is silence about it. We must report the truth. "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free." We must tell the truth, including the good things happening in China. For example, 10,000 churches have been built. The most memorable church service in my life was with 1,500 people in a church in China. It was a hell-fire and brimstone sermon. I haven’t been to one of those in 25 years in the United States. So the bottom line is, we must tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth about China. When it comes to the church of China, generalizations are hard to find. Everything is true somewhere; nothing is true everywhere. Is there freedom of religion in China? Are people worshipping? Yes. Mickey Spiegel: I do not think that some of the things you are bringing up are manifestations of freedom of religion, and I think that’s where we differ considerably. I don’t see necessarily—and I have to be careful the way I say this—I don’t see necessarily that growth in religious practice is proof that there is freedom of religion. What the concern here is, and not just with China, is with changing systems. And to change the system, as Smita said, you have to recognize why the system is in place and not attack just one piece of it. Rosalind I. J. Hackett: I happen to be organizing a world congress in South Africa. I have been amazed at the number of submissions from India, and at the people who are doing work and research on tribal religions in those regions. So I would like to ask Smita whether the money that is obviously going into this research is tied to a sort of colonialist approach to this? That is, if you know more about them then you can manipulate and control them? Smita Narula: Christianity has been in India since 54 A.D., which is something that a lot of people don’t realize. People think that it is something recent, that it has to do with evangelism in the last 20, 30, maybe 40 years. But it’s actually had a very, very strong tradition of participation in health care, in education, in societies, particularly in the south and in the northeast of the country where three small states do, in fact, have Christian majorities. Where the money is coming from right now is a source of real contention because it’s seen as possibly funding missionary activities in the country. So that’s really where the tension is coming from. A lot of missionaries are denied visas or refused entry altogether. And a lot of the foreign funding by these groups is now under much greater attack from the government itself. Lee Boothby: I would like briefly to revisit the suggestion that the United States government’s concern and action with reference to religious freedom or religious persecution is a Western export. It may be, but it seems to me that it is the same export as the concept of democracy. If that is a Western export, that may be because perhaps some cultures have an anti-democratic viewpoint. It seems to me that this is a very important part of democracy and if we miss that point what will happen is something like what concerns people in Russia today. People in Russia tell me that if religious freedom is circumscribed in Russia, the next freedom that will be circumscribed is the right of free speech and free press and the right to criticize the politicians and the government in Russia. It always goes hand in hand. If you do not have freedom of religious speech, ultimately, you don’t have freedom of political speech and free expression. Tom Farr: On the issue of universality—that U.S. promotion of religious freedom is somehow an example of Western cultural imperialism—I, like others, really have to reject this idea. I think the universality of truth and of human nature is implicit in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and in the United Nations Charter itself. We try to lay out in the introduction of the Report one argument—not the only argument, but a religious argument—for human dignity and universality. I don’t consider this approach to be a Western invention. I think the case for universal human dignity is implicit in many of the world’s religions. It’s expressed in different ways but I think it underpins not only all human rights but the value of religious freedom itself. William Inboden: I was really surprised the Chinese government did not react more violently to the Falun Gong. Do you think that by the Falun Gong getting away with what they did, that it might have carved out more theoretical space for other religious groups to have more public, organized visibility? Or is it just the opposite? That they kind of really caught the Chinese government off guard? Mickey Spiegel: Well, I don’t agree with you, first of all, that there hasn’t been a violent response to it. And by "violent" I don’t mean that they are torturing people or anything like that, but they certainly were burning some 1.5 million pieces of material. William Inboden: I was surprised the tanks didn’t come in. Mickey Spiegel: They didn’t need the tanks. They don’t have a policy in place that says you can burn the books, but they burned the books. They had 15-day re­education sessions for most of the rank and file believers, which is what you can do by law before you charge somebody. They have arrested the leaders. I don’t think it’s going to, by any stretch of the imagination, offer space for any other religious expression.
Posted by: AJay Aug 2 2004, 03:17 PM
QUOTE (acharya @ Aug 3 2004, 02:29 AM) We have these people in Universities playing with the lives of millions of people in the world and discussing how they can harm them more.
I am puzzled about why India and China are being discussed together? Other than the geographical proximity, there is not much in common between the two. 1. one is a democractic republic ruled by representatives, the other is ruled by a junta from a central party. 2. One is plural multi-religious country (Ms. Narula says as much) while the other brutally represses peaceful religous expression a la Flaun Gong and Flun Dafa. 3. One allows total freedom of speech while the other's news flows mostly from the state controlled news agency - Xinhua. 4. One has given up territory gained after winning a just war (Bangladesh and parts of Pakistan in 1971) while the other has illegally annexed a peaceful neighbor and refuses to give up its hegemony. All the scorn should be reserved for China and none for India. They can reject all they want the charges of neo-colonialism but looks that way from where I sit.
Posted by: acharya Aug 2 2004, 05:58 PM
n a Minor Key:Religion, Politics, and the State in IndiaN. J. Demerath IIIThe Indian national anthem is set to a non-Western melody that is reason-ably accessible to a Western ear—until its very last note. That noteemerges in a minor key and fades hauntingly away as Westerners wait in vainfor resolution into a major chord. I last heard the anthem in a January 2000ceremony marking the end of the 50th anniversary of the Indian constitutionand republic. Following as it did a deeply moving band and carillon renditionof Mohandas Gandhi’s favorite Anglican hymn, “Abide With Me,” the anthemreturned us once again from the age of the British raj to the continuing dramaof the world’s largest democracy—a fractious and at times violent drama thatalso lacks resolution. It is a drama that revolves around religion.The single most important factor in religion’s connection to violenceinvolves its relation to power, politics, and the state. And yet the possible rela-tionships vary widely. In some cases, religion may turn its back on the state asa defiling digression from more important otherworldly concerns. In othercases, religion may be deeply implicated in either a religious state or, as is morecommon, a state religion, depending upon which is the dominant partner. Instill other cases, there may be a tension between religion and the state, as eachplays moth to the other’s flame. Even where there is a de jure or de facto sepa-ration between the two, each has something to offer and to gain from theother. In pursuing state power or power over the state, religion is drawn evercloser to the high heat of politics. In pursuing religious legitimacy, the statemay be singed or consumed by the flames of emotionally contested meanings.These tensions are virtually universal, and no country exemplifies themmore clearly or with higher stakes than India. In this respect, it is useful tobegin by showing where India fits into a global classification of how countriesrelate religion to politics and the state—a classification that, perhaps surpris-ingly, finds India and the U.S. similarly situated. By way of introduction, then,let us begin with a few words on the United States, and then broaden these tothe world at large before finally focusing on India itself. To many Americans, the very phrase “religion and politics” smacks ofsomething gone wrong. After all, our First Amendment insists on a “separa-tion” of the two, does it not? It does not. On a picky point, the idea of “sepa-I Page 11 4RE L I G I O NO N T H EIN T E R N A T I O N A LNE W SAG E N D Aration” (as in “wall of separation”) comes only in a letter written by ThomasJefferson to a group of Baptists in 1803, and the pertinent phrase states onlythat “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion orprohibiting the free exercise thereof.” On a major point, it is one thing to barreligion from state hegemony—which the First Amendment does—and quiteanother to bar religion from political involvement by precluding religiouspractitioners, religious leaders, or for that matter religious organizations fromrunning for office or participating in electoral campaigns—which it does not. In fact, the sole clause pertinent to religion in the unamendedConstitution of 1787 states that “no religious test shall ever be required asqualification to any office or public Trust under the United States” (ArticleVI). Of course, the prohibition also extends by implication to any test for non-religion. American politics are replete with religious candidates of virtuallyevery denominational stripe—clergy as well as laity, elected as well as defeat-ed. The only real—if rarely and reluctantly enforced—penalty for Americanreligious organizations that participate in politics is a loss of tax exemption. There is little doubt that the founders understood politics as a necessaryprocess of airing competing interests and ideologies. By contrast, the state isan apparatus of government within which successful politicians serve as tem-porary office-holders under the sufferance of the system and its electorate.Opening politics to religion while keeping the state closed involves one of theless remarked upon of the celebrated “checks and balances” in the Americanconstitutional system. Each practice tends to be contingent on the other, muchlike the relationship between separationism overall and civil religion describedearlier. Religion can be active in politics precisely because we are protectedfrom its state hegemony. Conversely, religion need not have a position withinthe state because it can air its positions politically. It is true that mixing religion and politics can lead to a kind of cultural war-fare. But this is rare except when state power hangs in the political balance.Politics that follows a lawful pattern in the pursuit of well-defined and consti-tutionally regulated state offices is quite different from a politics of winner-take-all, including the right to re-define the state rather than merely playing arole within it. Similarly, there is a crucial distinction between the state as anenduring, rule-bound apparatus of government that transcends its incumbentofficials of the moment versus the state as the momentary and ideologicallyopportunistic creation of the last conquering politician, i.e. between the stateas a long-term end in its own right and the state as a short-term means to morepolitically particular ends. Banning religious considerations and religious leaders from politics is sim-ply unrealistic. Moreover, the attempt to do so is apt to backfire. When reli-gion is denied a place at the political table, it is likely to create more prob-lems—either as an outraged victim of a repressive political system or as anunmonitored force operating in the political shadows. In short, a politics that Page 12 IN AMI N O RKE Y: RE L I G I O N, PO L I T I C S,A N D T H EST A T EI NIN D I A5excludes religion is no more defensible than a state that establishes religion.Today’s world contains everything from religious states and state religionsto cases where religion lacks either a legal role in politics or cultural standingin the society at large. Basically, countries can be apportioned among four sim-plified tendencies: 1) religious politics and a religious state; 2) secular politicsand a secular state; 3) secular politics and a religious state; and finally 4) reli-gious politics and a secular state.Religious States and Religious Politics. From both a conceptual pointof view and an historical perspective, this would appear the purest of the fourcases, and perhaps the most common stereotype of non-Western, non-secularsocieties around the world. Because religion in one sphere is matched sym-metrically by religion in the other, a religious state would seem to go hand inhand with religious politics.In fact, the combination is more the exception than the rule, and this isbecause it is so volatile. When a religious state is faced with active religiouspolitics, there is a religious conflict at issue. Under such circumstances, thestate’s very legitimacy is called into question, and violence may reflect pre-emptive actions of state control as well as the clash among contending religiousparties. If there is a single pattern that lends itself to the most widespread reli-gious and cultural violence, it is surely this one. And, alas, while the categoryis rare, it is hardly non-existent. It describes the legacy of virtually every LatinAmerican country; it also includes the current situations of both Israel andNorthern Ireland. In each of the latter, the state is formally or effectively reli-gious, and the politics have followed tragic suit. Israel and Northern Irelandhave hosted some of the most deeply rooted and tragic violence of the modernera. This makes it especially important to consider the alternatives. Secular States and Secular Politics. If the first combination is stereo-typically non-Western, this one is commonly associated with the West. In onesense, it represents a realization of the Enlightenment vision through whatBryan Wilson (1966) called the “secularization of public religion” and whatRodney Stark and Laurence Iannaccone (1994) call the “de-sacralization of thestate.” The secular-state/secular-politics combination is often associated withWestern Europe in particular. But it also applies functionally, if not formally,to Anglican England, which may yet follow the lead of Sweden, which dises-tablished its state Lutheran church in January 2000. It is true that religiousmovements lurk in the political shadows of all these countries, but their poli-tics rarely take explicit religious form.Nor does Europe exhaust the secular-secular category. For example, bothTurkey and China qualify in letter, if not always in spirit. Turkey has been offi-cially secular since Ataturk’s great transformation in the 1920s, though it hasrecently required military saber rattling to roust Muslims out of politics andout of power. China is clearly a secular state and has secular politics partly byvirtue of having no mass politics at all. Here too, however, there have been Page 13 6RE L I G I O NO N T H EIN T E R N A T I O N A LNE W SAG E N D Arecent—if somewhat paranoid problems—in keeping religion out of politics,viz. the repression of the Falun Gong. Clearly, the combination of a secular state and secular politics has someempirical standing, and it is in some measure correctly associated withWestern post-enlightenment developments. But the combination in pureform runs the risk of cultural lassitude, if not sterility. Many of the above casesreveal persisting strains toward some form of religion or “sacred” alternativethat state administrations seek to dampen, if not drown. While these new reli-gious developments rarely represent major trends, they are also seldom dis-missable. So far, then, we have dealt with the two opposing polar combina-tions: the doubly religious associated with violence and the doubly seculartending toward vacuity.Religious States and Secular Politics. There are basically three scenar-ios that combine a religious state and secular politics. The first occurs whenstate religiousness is an empty symbol rather than a compelling commit-ment—more an anachronistic form than a contemporary function. In fact, wenoted several such countries under the secular-secular rubric, including“Lutheran” Sweden. If this first model suggests a certain ritualized indifference to religion, asecond version involves a far more active and pointed religious presence. Herereligion is an important source of state legitimacy, and no alternative religiousviews are tolerated. Religion is banned from politics precisely because it is sopotentially upsetting as an emotionally charged component of the culture atlarge. Often politics of any real substance is frowned upon, and religiousgrievances against the state are suppressed. These are theocracies represent-ed by some traditionally Catholic Latin American states as well as a numberof Islamic hegemonies in the Middle East. It also applies to several countriesin Southeast Asia such as Buddhist Thailand. Here the state controls thepolitical world very tightly and embraces religion more to co-opt it than tosubmit to it. In some ways these first two models of religious states with secular poli-tics are opposites of each other. The first represents religious tokenism in themidst of apathy, while the second reveals an imposed religious order to quellpotential religious disorder. Meanwhile, a third qualifies as a perverse varianton the second. This involves states that carefully construct their own religionto frustrate the political mobilization of a genuine religious alternative. Untilvery recently, Indonesia offered a case in point. Here the state created pan-casila as an imposed civil religion seeking to bind syncretistically the loyaltiesof Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and animists—as well as the 85 percent ofthe population who are formally Muslims. Under former President Suharto,strict electoral rules made it virtually impossible for any one religious groupto rise up against the regime, and the state’s administrative apparatus alsofunctioned as a controlling political structure (golkar). In all of this, the object
Posted by: acharya Aug 2 2004, 05:59 PM
Posted by: k.ram Aug 3 2004, 05:53 AM
'Church backing Tripura rebels' By Subir Bhaumik in Calcutta The government in India's north-eastern state of Tripura says it has evidence that the state's Baptist Church is involved in backing separatist rebels. Tripura Chief Minister Manik Sarkar said state police had uncovered details of the alleged link after questioning a church leader. Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was arrested late on Monday with a large quantity of explosives. Mr Sarkar said that allegations about the close links between the state's Baptist Church and the rebel National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) have long been made by political parties and police. Now for the first time, he said, hard evidence supporting the allegations had been found. Explosives Mr Sarkar told the BBC that Mr Halam was found in possession of more than 50 gelatine sticks, 5kg of potassium and 2kg of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives. Chief Minister Sarkar says he has proof He said that two other junior members of the same church, arrested last week, had tipped the police off about the explosives which were meant for the NLFT rebels. The chief minister said that Mr Halam confessed to buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT for the past two years. Another church official, Jatna Koloi, was arrested in south Tripura last week. Police say Mr Koloi had received training in guerrilla warfare at an NLFT base last year. -------------------------- Article: Subject: 'Church backing Tripura rebels’ Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 From: panditaindrani Courtesy: 'Church backing Tripura rebels' By Subir Bhaumik in Calcutta The government in India's north-eastern state of Tripura says it has evidence that the state's Baptist Church is involved in backing separatist rebels. Tripura Chief Minister Manik Sarkar said state police had uncovered details of the alleged link after questioning a church leader. Nagmanlal Halam, secretary of the Noapara Baptist Church in Tripura, was arrested late on Monday with a large quantity of explosives. Mr Sarkar said that allegations about the close links between the state's Baptist Church and the rebel National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT) have long been made by political parties and police. Now for the first time, he said, hard evidence supporting the allegations had been found. Explosives Mr Sarkar told the BBC that Mr Halam was found in possession of more than 50 gelatine sticks, 5kg of potassium and 2kg of sulphur and other ingredients for making explosives. Chief Minister Sarkar says he has proof He said that two other junior members of the same church, arrested last week, had tipped the police off about the explosives which were meant for the NLFT rebels. The chief minister said that Mr Halam confessed to buying and supplying explosives to the NLFT for the past two years. Another church official, Jatna Koloi, was arrested in south Tripura last week. Police say Mr Koloi had received training in guerrilla warfare at an NLFT base last year. Conversion Guards have been placed outside the headquarters of the Baptist Church in Tripura's capital, Agartala, to prevent possible attacks on it once the news of Mr Halam's arrest spread. The NLFT is accused of forcing Tripura's indigenous tribes to become Christians and give up Hindu forms of worship in areas under their control. Last year, they issued a ban on the Hindu festivals of Durga Puja and Saraswati Puja. The NLFT manifesto says that they want to expand what they describe as the kingdom of God and Christ in Tripura. The Baptist Church in Tripura was set up by missionaries from New Zealand 60 years ago. It won only a few thousand converts until 1980 when in the aftermath, of the state's worst ethnic riot, the number of conversions grew.
Posted by: k.ram Aug 3 2004, 05:56 AM MISSIONS are involved in outreach programs, counseling, literature distribution, leadership training, community service, prayer meetings, radio programs, internet ministry, bible studies, mission conferences and evangelism. North Delta, Brtitish Columbia, Canada South Asian Connection(SAC) (EST:2002) 7696-112 Street,North Delta, Brtitish Columbia V4C 4V8,Canada Mission : First international Christian and trans-denominational gathering for South Asian Youth and Young Adults, primarily of the South Asian Diaspora Activities : Conferences/Conventions Contact Person: Amit Bhatia Castro Valley, California, USA Nava Jeevan Masihi Mandal (EST:1986) 20107 Sapphire Street,Castro Valley, California 94546,USA Mission : To provide an opportunity for members to fellowship on a regular basis, reaching out to the lost world in spreading the gospel Activities : Outreach programs at Christmas & Easter, Bi-weekly Bible studies, Bi-monthly prayer meetings Contact Person: Bro. Joseph Priyanath 510-881-5901 Cupertino, California, USA Power of Gospel Ministries (EST:2002) PO Box 1596,Cupertino, California 95015-1596,USA Mission : To take the gospel of Jesus Christ to un-reached people around the world Activities : Radio Ministry - "Power of Gospel Time" to SW listeners worldwide, Internet Ministry, evangelistic meetings, intercessory prayer Contact Person: Bro. Suresh Babu 650-903-9284 ------------------- Article: Subject: Christian missions targeting Indians MISSIONS are involved in outreach programs, counseling, literature distribution, leadership training, community service, prayer meetings, radio programs, internet ministry, bible studies, mission conferences and evangelism. North Delta, Brtitish Columbia, Canada South Asian Connection(SAC) (EST:2002) 7696-112 Street,North Delta, Brtitish Columbia V4C 4V8,Canada Mission : First international Christian and trans-denominational gathering for South Asian Youth and Young Adults, primarily of the South Asian Diaspora Activities : Conferences/Conventions Contact Person: Amit Bhatia Castro Valley, California, USA Nava Jeevan Masihi Mandal (EST:1986) 20107 Sapphire Street,Castro Valley, California 94546,USA Mission : To provide an opportunity for members to fellowship on a regular basis, reaching out to the lost world in spreading the gospel Activities : Outreach programs at Christmas & Easter, Bi-weekly Bible studies, Bi-monthly prayer meetings Contact Person: Bro. Joseph Priyanath 510-881-5901 Cupertino, California, USA Power of Gospel Ministries (EST:2002) PO Box 1596,Cupertino, California 95015-1596,USA Mission : To take the gospel of Jesus Christ to un-reached people around the world Activities : Radio Ministry - "Power of Gospel Time" to SW listeners worldwide, Internet Ministry, evangelistic meetings, intercessory prayer Contact Person: Bro. Suresh Babu 650-903-9284 Newark, California, USA Asian Indian Ministries (EST:1998) PO Box 964,Newark, California 94560,USA Mission : Reaching Hindus & Muslims in the SFO Bay Area for Jesus Christ Activities : Monthly outreach, Christian literature distribution, family counseling, visitation ministry, personal evangelism, bible correspondence course Contact Person: Pastor: Rev. Joseph Samy 510-795-7770 Sacramento, California, USA The Seed Group (EST:2000) 1901 Broadway,Sacramento, California 95818,USA 916-682-9558 Mission : Church planting in India, support of missionary organizations Activities : Annual Missionary Conference, fundraising & support of missions Contact Person: Bro. Josh Ebenezer 916-682-0860 San Jose, California, USA The Potter's Ministries (EST:2000) P.O. Box 23733,San Jose, California 95153-3733,USA Mission : To evangelize the Asian immigrants in the United States and to strengthen the body of Christ Activities : Bible study, prayer meeting, workshops, monthly letters, mission projects, internet ministry Contact Person: Jemima & Cyril Rayan 408-281-0718 Santa Clara, California, USA India Ministry International (EST:1984) PO Box 3576,Santa Clara, California 95055-3576,USA 408-244-6543 Mission : Reaching Hindus of the world for Christ, To reach out to the unreached Indians of the Bay Area and in the Indian diaspora and to provide training & resources in outreach Activities : Church planting, Bible vision, discipleship & leadership training, verandah evangelism in India, networking with like-minded believers Contact Person: Bro. Pushpan Pappu 408-244-6543 Sunnyvale, California, USA Kingdom Expression Ministries (EST:1999) 201 W California Ave # 1309,Sunnyvale, California 94086,USA 408-736- 8742 Mission : Building believers in their walk with the Lord Activities : Marriage counseling, youth ministry, evangelism, fasting & prayer meetings, bible studies, arranging and coordinating evangelistic meetings Contact Person: Bro. Joseph Manoharan 408-736-8742 Turlock, California, USA India Friendship Center (EST:2000) 264 West Main,Turlock, California 95380,USA 209-667-9456 Mission : Spiritual counseling, ESL classes Activities : Community services for the Sikh people Contact Person: Rev. Wilson Koppula 209-632-4091
Posted by: k.ram Aug 9 2004, 05:12 AM
Posted by: nachiketa Aug 19 2004, 12:07 PM
Pastor attacked by youths Tuesday August 17 2004 15:06 IST DAVANAGERE: An assault bid was made on a pastor during the Independence Day celebrations at Chhattobanahalli village in Davanagere taluk on Sunday. According to rural police, Independence Day celebrations were made in front of the house of D.Basavaraj at the village and a shamiyana was erected for the programme. When pastor Karunakar and others started to sing religious songs, Venkatesh, Chandranaik and Krishnanaik allegedly attacked them and assaulted them. They also damaged tape recorders and the shamiyana, police said.
Posted by: rajesh_g Aug 20 2004, 09:43 PM This is hilarious in parts.. smile.gif The pagans are out to hijack Mariamman.. ROTFL.gif
Posted by: k.ram Aug 22 2004, 08:13 AM
A PARABLE I am today twenty-five hundred years old. I have been dead for nearly as many years. My place of birth was Athens; my grave was not far from those of Xenophon and Plato, within view of the white glory of Athens and the shimmering waters of the Aegean sea. After sleeping in my grave for many centuries I awoke suddenly -- I cannot tell how nor why -- and was transported by a force beyond my control to this new day and this new city. I arrived here at daybreak, when the sky was still dull and drowsy. As I approached the city I heard bells ringing, and a little later I found the streets astir with throngs of well dressed people in family groups wending their way hither and thither. Evidently they were not going to work, for they were accompanied by their children in their best clothes, and a pleasant expression was upon their faces. "This must be a day of festival and worship, devoted to one of their gods," I murmured to myself Looking about me I saw a gentleman in a neat black dress, smiling, and his hand extended to me with great cordiality. He must have realized I was a stranger and wished to tender his hospitality to me. I accepted it gratefully. I clasped his hand. He pressed mine. We gazed for a moment into each other's eyes. He understood my bewilderment amid my novel surroundings, and offered to enlighten me. He explained to me the ringing of the bells and meaning of the holiday crowds moving in the streets. It was Sunday -- Sunday before Christmas, and the people were going to "the House of God." "Of course you are going there, too," I said to my friendly guide. "Yes," he answered, "I conduct the worship. I am a priest." "A priest of Apollo?" I interrogated. "No, no," he replied, raising his hand to command silence, "Apollo is not a god; he was only an idol." "Am idol?" I whispered, taken by surprise. "I perceive you are a Greek," he said to me, "and the Greeks," he continued, "notwithstanding their distinguished accomplishments, were an idolatrous people. They worshipped gods that did not exist. They built temples to divinities which were merely empty names -- empty names," he repeated. "Apollo and Athene -- and the entire Olympian lot were no more than inventions of the fancy." "But the Greeks loved their gods," I protested, my heart clamoring in my breast. "They were not gods, they were idols, and the difference between a god and an idol is this: an idol is a thing; God is a living being. When you cannot prove the existence of your god, when you have never seen him, nor heard his voice, nor touched him -- when you have nothing provable about him, he is an idol. Have you seen Apollo? Have you heard him? Have you touched him?" "No," I said, in a low voice. "Do you know of any one who has?" I had to admit that I did not. "He was an idol, then, and not a god." "But many of us Greeks," I said, "have felt Apollo in our hearts and have been inspired by him." "You imagine you have," returned my guide. "If he were really divine be would be living to this day. "Is he, then, dead?" I asked. "He never lived; and for the last two thousand years or more his temple has been a heap of ruins." I wept to hear that Apollo, the god of light and music, was no more - - that his fair temple had fallen into ruins and the fire upon his altar had been extinguished; then, wiping a tear from my eyes, I said, "Oh, but our gods were fair and beautiful; our religion was rich and picturesque. It made the Greeks a nation of poets, orators, artists, warriors, thinkers. It made Athens a city of light; it created the beautiful, the true, the good -- yes, our religion was divine." "It had only one fault"' interrupted my guide. "What was that?" I inquired, without knowing what his answer would be. "It was not true." "But I still believe in Apollo," I exclaimed; "he is not dead, I know he is alive." "Prove it," he said to me; then, pausing for a moment, "if you produce him," he said, "we shall all fall down and worship him. Produce Apollo and be shall be our god." "Produce him!" I whispered to myself. "What blasphemy!" Then, taking heart, I told my guide how more than once I had felt Apollo's radiant presence in my heart, and told him of the immortal lines of Homer concerning the divine Apollo. "Do you doubt Homer?" I said to him; "Homer, the inspired bard? Homer, whose ink-well was as big as the sea; whose imperishable page was Time? Homer, whose every word was a drop of light?" Then I proceeded to quote from Homer's Iliad, the Greek Bible, worshipped by all the Hellenes as the rarest Manuscript between heaven and earth. I quoted his description of Apollo, than whose lyre nothing is more musical, than whose speech even honey is not sweeter. I recited how his mother went from town to town to select a worthy place to give birth to the young god, son of Zeus, the Supreme Being, and how he was born and cradled amid the ministrations of all the goddesses, who bathed him in the running stream and fed him with nectar and ambrosia from Olympus. Then I recited the lines which picture Apollo bursting his bands, leaping forth from his cradle, and spreading his wings like a swan, soaring sun-ward, declaring that he had come to announce to mortals the will of God. "Is it possible," I asked, "that all this is pure fabrication, a fantasy of the brain, as unsubstantial as the air? No, no, Apollo is not an idol. He is a god, and the son of a god. The whole Greek world will bear me witness that I am telling the truth." Then I looked at my guide to see what impression this outburst of sincere enthusiasm had produced upon him, and I saw a cold smile upon his lips that cut me to the heart. It seemed as if he wished to say to me, "You poor deluded pagan! You are not intelligent enough to know that Homer was only a mortal after all, and that he was writing a play in which he manufactured the gods of whom he sang -- that these gods existed only in his imagination, and that today they are as dead as is their inventer -- the poet." By this time we stood at the entrance of a large edifice which my guide said was "the House of God." As we walked in I saw innumerable little lights blinking and winking all over the spacious interior. There were, besides, pictures, altars and images all around me. The air was heavy with incense; a number of men in gorgeous vestments were passing to and fro, bowing and kneeling before the various lights and images. The audience was upon its knees enveloped in silence -- a silence so solemn that it awed me. Observing my anxiety to understand the meaning of all this, my guide took me aside and in a whisper told me that the people were celebrating the anniversary of the birthday of their beautiful Savior -- Jesus, the Son of God. "So was Apollo the son of God," I replied, thinking perhaps that after all we might find ourselves in agreement with one another. "Forget Apollo," he said, with a suggestion of severity in his voice. "There is no such person. He was only an idol. If you were to search for Apollo in all the universe you would never find any one answering to his name or description. Jesus," he resumed, "is the Son of God. He came to our earth and was born of a virgin." Again I was tempted to tell my guide that that was how Apollo became incarnate; but I restrained myself. "Then Jesus grew up to be a man," continued my guide, "performing unheard-of wonders, such as treading the seas, giving sight, hearing and speech to the blind, the deaf and the dumb, converting water into wine, feeding the multitudes miraculously, predicting coming events and resurrecting the dead." "Of course, of your gods, too," he added, "it is claimed that they performed miracles, and of your oracles that they foretold the future, but there is this difference -- the things related of your gods are a fiction, the things told of Jesus are a fact, and the difference between Paganism and Christianity is the difference between fiction and fact." Just then I heard a wave of murmur, like the rustling of leaves in a forest, sweep over the bowed audience. I turned about and unconsciously, my Greek curiosity impelling me, I pushed forward toward where the greater candle lights were blazing. I felt that perhaps the commotion in the house was the announcement that the God Jesus was about to make his appearance, and I wanted to see him. I wanted to touch him, or, if the crowd were too large to allow me that privilege, I wanted, at least, to hear his voice. I, who had never seen a god, never touched one, never heard one speak, I who had believed in Apollo without ever having known anything provable about him, I wanted to see the real God, Jesus. But my guide placed his hand quickly upon my shoulder, and held me back. "I want to see Jesus," I hastened, turning toward him. I said this reverently and in good faith. "Will he not be here this morning? Will he not speak to his worshippers?" I asked again. "Will he not permit them to touch him, to caress his hand, to clasp his divine feet, to inhale the ambrosial fragrance of his breath, to bask in the golden light of his eyes, to hear the music of his immaculate accents? Let me, too, see Jesus," I pleaded. "You cannot see him," answered my guide, with a trace of embarrassment in his voice. "He does not show himself any more." I was too much surprised at this to make any immediate reply. "For the last two thousand years," my guide continued, "it has not pleased Jesus to show himself to any one; neither has he been heard from for the same number of years." "For two thousand years no one has either seen or heard Jesus?" I asked, my eyes filled with wonder and my voice quivering with excitement. "No," he answered. "Would not that, then," I ventured to ask, impatiently, "make Jesus as much of an idol as Apollo? And are not these people on their knees before a god of whose existence they are as much in the dark as were the Greeks of fair Apollo, and of whose past they have only rumors such as Homer reports of our Olympian gods -- as idolatrous as the Athenians? What would you say," I asked my guide, "if I were to demand that you should produce Jesus and prove him to my eyes and ears as you have asked me to produce and prove Apollo? What is the difference between a ceremony performed in honor of Apollo and one performed in honor of Jesus, since it is as impossible to give oracular demonstration of the existence of the one as of the other? If Jesus is alive and a god, and Apollo is an idol and dead, what is the evidence, since the one is as invisible, as inaccessible, and as unproducible as the other? And, if faith that Jesus is a god proves him a god, why will not faith in Apollo make him a god? But if worshipping Jesus, whom for the best part of the last two thousand years no man has seen, heard or touched; if building temples to him, burning incense upon his altars, bowing at his shrine and calling him "God," is not idolatry, neither is it idolatry to kindle fire upon the luminous altars of the Greek Apollo, -- God of the dawn, master of the enchanted lyre -- he with the bow and arrow tipped with fire! I am not denying," I said, "that Jesus ever lived. He may have been alive two thousand years ago, but if he has not been heard from since, if the same thing that happened to the people living at the time he lived has happened to him, namely -- if he is dead, then you are worshipping the dead, which fact stamps your religion as idolatrous." And, then, remembering what he had said to me about the Greek mythology being beautiful but not true, I said to him: "Your temples are indeed gorgeous and costly; your music is grand your altars are superb; your litany is exquisite; your chants are melting; your incense, and bells and flowers, your gold and silver vessels are all in rare taste, and I dare say your dogmas are subtle and your preachers eloquent, but your religion has one fault -- it is not true."
Posted by: k.ram Aug 24 2004, 07:35 PM Religious Fervor May Dominate Emerging Indian State of Nagalim by Sean O'Driscoll In sheer population, Nagalim has been one of the world's most brutal conflicts, yet few people have ever heard of this tiny region in northeast India fighting for independence. Since Indian troops first started to put down an insurrection by the Christian population of Nagalim, or Nagaland, in 1947, an estimated 200,000 people have been killed in a population of fewer than 4 million. There has been a ceasefire since August 1997, and after numerous difficulties both sides agreed to a joint communiqué in Amsterdam on July 11, 2002, in which India recognized "the unique history and situation" of the Naga people for the first time. The Nagas are represented by Isak Chishi Swu, chairman of the National Socialist Council of Nagalim who also claims the presidency of a region he hopes to see completely free of Indian rule within the next decade. His party has set up a new office in Washington, D.C., and is scrambling to gain access to the U.S. government, as well as to the United Nations. Swu stopped by his office last week for an interview with The Washington Diplomat before leaving for San Francisco, where he is to visit a Christian center. A devoutly religious man known for his elegant style, Swu insisted on beginning the interview with a prayer, during which he asked for blessings for everyone in the room and for peace around the world. It was clear after only a few minutes that Swu's main preoccupation will be with creating a Christian state, which comes higher on his list of priorities than socialism, nationalism or even democracy. Overflowing with evangelical zeal, Swu explained that Nagalim will send out 10,000 missionaries around the world when it achieves independence. "Our intention is that Nagalim is for Christ. We have proclaimed it. Nagalim is for Christ. God has got his plan for Nagalim," he said. "We were evangelized by the American Baptist missionaries back in 1839, and we don't have the adequate words to thank the American missionaries." It is difficult to assess if Swu's religious fervor is simply that of any country leader suddenly finding religious freedom after decades of oppression. But there is a large young population in Nagalim that is eventually going to come into contact with Western culture and concepts such as atheism, and it remains to be seen if their religious rights will be respected under an independent Nagalim. On the subject of atheism, Swu made his feelings very clear. "No, no, there are no atheists in Nagalim," Swu insisted. "There are people who believe in a higher and a lower god from the older religion. They have a spiritualism, but it is lower spirit." Swu was pressed on the point-surely there must be some atheists in his country. "There are no atheists in Nagalim. Everybody knows that there is none," he reiterated. Despite his strong objections to atheism, Swu said the rights of other religions will be respected after independence. "In the religion, we cannot impose," he said. "It will depend on the decision of the individual, so we cannot restrict people to be completely Christian, because the world is such that the devil may also penetrate." In a country where many feel this devil lurks in nonbelievers, it is not difficult to foresee that Nagalim will not be the world's most liberal country after independence. It will certainly be against homosexuality, Swu explained, adding that his country strongly supports the actions of a U.S. state supreme court judge in Alabama who disobeyed the federal government by placing a monument of the 10 commandments inside a court building. "We subscribe to the people who are trying to stand for the Lord. We subscribe to the idea that, in Alabama, the Christians will have to maintain their integrity and not succumb to the decision of the U.S. Supreme Court," Swu said. "The [U.S.] Supreme Court has gone wrong because they have stopped children from saying prayer before school. That is not according to their constitution. [The supreme court members] are subscribing to having homosexuals. That is not the constitution laid down by your forefathers. The founders of your nations were god-fearing people, and they laid down proper foundations. That is why America prospered," Swu added, noting that the Statue of Liberty's message to immigrants "does not mean that they do against the word of God." Other Naga leaders, however, do not match Swu's religious enthusiasm, and there have been political splits in the past, leading to questions whether various parties will in fact emerge to share the country's leadership. "We don't believe in the party system now," Swu said bluntly. "In the future, we may have, but the party system depends on the majority decision. They don't depend on right and wrong. When the majority become wrong, they will just carry it out, so that is dangerous for us." Despite Swu's deeply engaging, charming and intelligent personality, this political leader is also proposing a state where only Christianity will be tolerated (he is in favor of Hindus returning to India), homosexuality will be banned, democracy will be unheard of, and government will be controlled solely by the will of God. It is put to Swu that upon attaining independence, Nagalim might not differ much from Iran after its 1979 revolution. Swu, however, insisted that his region's scenario is different because "we shall stick to what God will show us. What the Holy Spirit will tell us." Nevertheless, Iranian fundamentalists said much the same thing-that they will follow whatever Mohammed tells them. "But we don't have Muslims between us," said Swu. But if you change the religion, is there any difference between the two points? "God doesn't want us to change the religion. God doesn't make us accept Hinduism or Muslim." But surely people born in Nagalim whose faith has weakened will also have a place in society? "If the devil will work hard, he may get some people to do that. We must fight the devil, so that nobody will come like that. No chance must be given to Satan," Swu said. It is a point on which he will not budge. Swu does say that the Hindu population can return to India after Nagalim's independence, even those who were born in Nagalim. But the suffering of the Naga people goes far deeper than the return of Hindus to India. There has been a huge number of casualties during the decades-old conflict, and Swu argues that a South African-style Truth and Reconciliation Forum, in which combatants fess up to their crimes, would be an effective and essential way of coming to terms with India's actions in Nagalim. "We have to understand the history and the facts. So [India] must correct themselves," Swu said. "Then there can be reconciliation and better understanding and respect for each other. But, of course, the U.S. or some such person must be in supervision, because the Indian government might lie." The Embassy of India was contacted several times for this story but it did not respond to our inquiries. As for the United States itself, Swu calls for a "sweeping revival" to rid it of sin and return it to its Christian roots. "We in Nagalim look to the United States as the country that brought us to Christianity. It is time for a sweeping revival, not just in Nagalim but also in the United States. The United States should be leading the world," he said. Next on Swu's agenda is a trip to the Summer Heaven religious center in San Francisco, where he will recite prayers with Christian missionaries and speak to the public to spread his Christian gospel in a determined fight to see that Nagalim's salvation of the world begins one soul at a time. Sean O'Driscoll is a contributing writer for The Washington Diplomat.
Posted by: Sriman Aug 28 2004, 06:04 AM
[cross posted] UN Declaration of Human Rights & Religous Proselytization An online petition has been created to appeal to the UN High Commission for Human Rights to eliminate proselytization. Pl send the petition below to all your contacts in India, asking them to sign the petition.We need atleast ten thousand signatures before UN will consider doing anything! To sign the petition, pl go to
Posted by: Mudy Aug 29 2004, 08:14 AM Tuesday August 24 2004 12:21 IST TIRUCHY: A tug of war between Dalits and Vanniars in a small village near Tiruchirappalli -- with the latter adamant that the former can never hope to be relieved of the untouchability scourge -- has had a completely unforeseen consequence: the local church has had to be locked for the past three months and both sides have been forced to seek the divine elsewhere. biggrin.gif The scene of discontent is the nondescript Purathakudi village in Vaiyampatti panchayat union near Tiruchy. Nearly 40 Dalit Christian families live in the street in front of the 100-year-old church of St. Antony the Hermit, while the Vanniars number around 450 families. The conflict started in 1987 when the Dalits refused to do 'traditional duties' like beating drums at upper caste funerals or removing dead cows. ohmy.gif This defiance irked the Vanniars who felt the Dalits were becoming too big for their boots. The Vanniars then refused to collect the Dalit share of money for conduct of the two festivals and also refused to share information about church accounts with the Dalits, according to Savarimuthu (40). Besides, of the 17 statues of various saints in the church, the Vanniars allowed only 16 to be taken out in procession during the festival days, but the other three were not, due to some association with Dalits in one way or the other. rolleyes.gif The icon of Jebamalai Madha, especially, as it was believed to have been donated by a Dalit. Rayappan (64) said the church itself was more than a century-old and nobody knew who exactly donated the statue. Further, the Dalits were also not permitted to touch or read the first and second lessons from the Bible during Mass, he added. Dalits were also not permitted to be altar boys during the communion for fear that their touch would contaminate the holy vessels used in service. ohmy.gif When parish priest Fr.Amalaraj allowed a bull run in the Dalit street during Pongal in 1999, he was forced to stop this practice following vehement protests from Vanniyars. Even as tension simmered, Rev.Peter Fernando and Rev.Antony Devotta, former and incumbent bishops of Tiruchirappalli respectively, took the Vanniars to task for their treatment of the Dalits, but to no effect. The church peace committee meetings would dissolve in chaos with Vanniars abusing Dalits even when the priests were around. Such discontent led to the church being locked up on two occasions and when the last incumbent parish priest Fr.Charles demanded the keys to the church, hundi keys and accounts, the upper castes refused to oblige, leading to the church remaining locked till now. While the Dalits now have to attend the church at Manaparai for marriages and christenings, Vanniars have built a small chapel for themselves some distance away. Vanniar community sources ruled out there was no way Dalits could expect to be treated as equals any time in the near future, whatever the hierarchy might think or say. Though the Dalits have complained to the police, it has not helped much as Christian Dalits are not covered by the Prevention of SC/ST Atrocities Act. rolleyes.gif
Posted by: k.ram Aug 30 2004, 05:28 AM ID=IEA20040830012801&Title=Southern+News+%2D+Andhra+Pradesh&rLink=0 Distribution of `offensive' pamphlets lead to tension Monday August 30 2004 10:54 IST GUNTUR: Mild tension prevailed in Amaravati town following distribution of pamphlets by members of a particular community denouncing the Hindu mode of worship and its rituals during `Pushkarams' on Sunday. On learning about the incident, the police stepped in to prevent further distribution of pamphlets. Endowments Minister M Satyanarayana Rao, who visited Amaravati in the afternoon, expressed concern over such a trend. He directed Collector and the police to take action against people responsible for the incident
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 2 2004, 06:54 PM
The Spread of Christianity in Kashmir and Its Unholy Designs: A Detailed Survey: [In Urdu: Wadi-i Kashmir Mai Isaiyat Ka Farogh Aur Uske Makruh Aza‘im: Ek Tafsili-o Tahqiqi Ja’iza] Book Review by Yoginder Sikand of Muhammad Saeed ur-Rahman Shams, ed. (Srinagar: Shaikh Mohammad Usman & Sons, Madina Chowk, Gaukadal, 2004), 46 pages, Rs.10, Year 2004 Yoginder Sikand Two years ago a flood of reports suddenly appeared in the Indian press revealing an alarming number of conversions of Muslims to Christianity in Kashmir. Figures of the number of such converts in the past ten years varied greatly, with some putting the total as high as 20,000. In the absence of any detailed research on the subject it is difficult to make a reasonable estimate, but the number is sizeable enough to have caused considerable consternation as well as soul-searching among Muslim religious authorities in Kashmir, as this booklet reveals. This booklet consists of three articles written on the subject of Muslim conversions to Christianity, with an introduction by the Mirwaiz of Kashmir, Maulvi Muhammad Umar Faruq, head of the Muttahida Majlis-i ‘Ulama of Jammu and Kashmir (MMUJK), a recently-established association of Kashmiri ‘ulama that is involved in seeking to counter the threat of Christian evangelism in the region. The articles provide interesting glimpses into the social, economic and political factors behind the spate of conversions, the methods used by Christian missionaries to win converts as well as the responses of Kashmiri Muslim religious organisations. In his brief introductory note, Mirwaiz Umar Faruq describes the work of the Christian missionary groups in Kashmir as a major threat, suggesting that the missionaries use material inducements to win converts, and hence claiming that their work can hardly be said to be sincere. He refers, in this regard, to the work of the MMUJK, and suggests that it undertake a range of activities and programmes to promote Islamic awareness among the Kashmiri public, protect Muslim identity and thereby counter the Christian evangelical challenge. Two articles included in the booklet echo much the same views, and do not go beyond the level of generalities, thus providing little understanding of the exact process and factors for the conversions in Kashmir. In his article, the noted Pakistani Deobandi scholar Muhammad Taqi Usmani describes the Christian evangelical project as little less than a cheap gimmick, accusing the missionaries of using money, and promises of jobs and education to lure unsuspecting, and largely poor, Muslims into the Christian fold. In this the Maulana is probably correct, and this may well be true for some, or even most, Christian missionary groups. Yet, whatever their motives, this ought not to be used as an argument to altogether deny the important contributions that some Christian institutions and dedicated activists are making in helping the suffering and the needy. What, one must ask, are the Muslim counterparts of the Christian missionaries doing for the poor, and the victims of the unceasing violence in Kashmir and elsewhere? Pretty much nothing is the answer, except for loudly haranguing their enemies and lamenting their plight, and refusing to speak out against the barbarities perpetrated by self-styled Islamists in the name of Islam. Which, in turn, explains why Christian missionaries have moved in to do their own thing and so can hardly be blamed. The Maulana conveniently glosses over this rather inconvenient fact, and, instead, goes on to develop an elaborate and abstruse theological argument seeking to prove that Christianity as it exists today is a corruption of, and a major deviation from, the original teachings of Jesus. Roughly the same argument is made by another Deobandi ‘alim, Mufti Arshad Ahmad, whose article also appears in this book. Titled as ‘Kashmir Main Isaiyat Ke Badhtey Qadam’ (‘The Growing Influence of Christianity in Kashmir’), it hardly refers to Kashmir at all and consists simply of an angry, although not entirely unmerited, diatribe against the missionaries. The third article, by the Kashmiri Deobandi scholar Maulvi Muhammad Mir Qasmi, is the book’s saving grace, being well-argued and informative. Titled ‘Kashmir Main Kitney Musalman Isai Bane?’ (‘How Many Muslims Have Become Christians in Kashmir?’), it provides a fairly detailed account of the working of various Christian missionary outfits in the Valley. Qasmi provides varying estimates of the number of Muslim converts to Christianity in Kashmir in the last ten years, from 12,000, as claimed by the Srinagar-based newspaper ‘Greater Kashmir’, to 20,000, a figure cited by the Kashmiri Urdu paper al-Safa. He then goes on to provide a broad historical overview of the Christian missionary presence in Kashmir, starting with the first European missionary, Robert Clarke, as early as in 1854. Clarke was followed by several other missionaries, Catholic as well as Protestant, some of whom set up educational institutions catering to the Kashmiri elite, in the hope of winning them to Christianity, and then, through them, hoping to reach out to the masses as well. Some of these schools still exist and are regarded as among the best institutions in the state. Yet, Qasmi notes, these missionary endeavours were not particularly successful, and the number of Kashmiri Muslim converts to Christianity remained meagre. The situation has drastically changed in the last fifteen years in the state, Qasmi says. Taking advantage of the plight of the poor and the victims of the ongoing strife, he says, numerous Christian missionary groups have established their presence in the Valley. Most of them are generously financed by rightwing, fundamentalist Christian evangelical orgaisations based in America and western Europe. Qasmi provides a detailed account of various missionary organisations presently working all over Kashmir, suggesting a well-organised campaign to spread Christianity, often disguised in the garb of helping hapless Kashmiris. Some of them are engaged in some sort of social work, such as providing employment, medical assistance and education, details of which Qasmi provides, but these are clearly meant simply as an evangelical tool. Qasmi speaks about a carefully designed division of labour between various missionary organisations in order to make their work more effective. Thus, for instance, Frontiers works among the Gujjars of Dar, near Srinagar, Agape Mission is based among the Hanjis or house-boat owners in Srinagar, Gospel for Asia focuses on the villages along the border with Pakistan, The Goodway is active in the Patan-Magam-Tangmarg triangle, Campus Crusade for Christ works among students in Pulwama and Srinagar, Eternal Life Ministries among leprosy patients in Nagin, and Operation Agape among surrendered militants. Some missionary organisations have tried to develop culturally more acceptable forms of communication in order to make for more effective communication with prospective converts. This, for instance, is the case with the Noor-i Hayat Church, the al-Bashar Fellowship and the al-Masihi Jama‘at Fellowship, whose ‘Muslim’ names have probably been deliberately chosen in order to make them seem somewhat innocuous and culturally familiar to their Muslim target audience. Some of these groups have also prepared propaganda material in the Kashmiri language, using forms and styles that the local Muslims can easily identify with. Such, for instance, is the case of an organisation that distributes free audiotapes on Christianity at Batamaloo, located in the very heart of Srinagar. Qasmi argues that for many Muslim converts, conversion is simply an economic choice. He writes that a sizeable number of the converts adopt Christianity simply in order to avail the educational, medical or economic assistance that missionary groups promise to provide them with. To buttress this claim he refers to a number of converts who, after joining one denomination and reaping material benefits of some sort, then choose to join another, rival Christian denomination if they are promised further material gain. For some Kashmiri converts as well as other Indian Christians employment in missionary organisations based in Kashmir also provides a good source of income, far beyond what they could otherwise expect. Such, for instance, is the case of a Manipuri missionary associated with the American-funded Operation Agape, who lives in a posh locality in Srinagar. Qasmi quotes this missionary as saying that for him his work is simply a job, and that he took it up because he could find no alternate employment in his home-state. A similar case that Qasmi cites is of a Kashmiri Muslim convert who works with the US-based German Town Baptist Church in Pulwama. An unemployed graduate, he now receives a regular salary and his missionary employers have promised to send him abroad for higher studies. At the same time, Qasmi also admits that not all converts to Christianity choose to adopt the faith simply out of economic motives. He refers to some converts whose change of faith was motivated by genuine spiritual concern, or as a result of being impressed with the dedication and sincerity of the Christian workers that they came in touch with. Such, for instance, is the case of a certain Sarwan Khan, a resident of Poonch, whom Qasmi describes as the convenor of all Protestant groups active in Jammu and Kashmir. Qasmi writes that Khan chose to become a convert principally out of disgust at what he saw as the local Muslims’ neglect of the plight of their needy co-religionists. Qasmi refers to some other converts, mainly poor people as well as victims of the ongoing violence in Kashmir, who chose to accept Christianity because their fellow Muslims were indifferent to their misery, while the Christian workers whom they came into contact with willingly helped them. Qasmi refers to the case of an old widow, whose only son was killed, leaving her alone to fend for her three daughters. No Muslims offered to help her, and so she was forced to take the assistance of a Christian missionary. Impressed by the missionary’s generosity and dedication, she decided to convert to Christianity. She explains her conversion as a protest against Kashmiri Muslim leaders who, she claims, keep talking about piety and religion, but do nothing to help the poor. Qasmi argues that in order to meet the missionary challenge, Muslim organisations need to get their act together and engage in constructive social work among the poor instead of simply fighting polemical battles. He outlines a broad programme for Muslim religious organisations and leaders to adopt, most importantly being promoting education, not simply Islamic but modern as well, among poor Muslims in the state who are the most vulnerable to the blandishments of the missionaries. Qasmi’s other suggestions include starting medical centres, employment generation projects, orphanages and vocational training centres to help the poor and the needy. He stresses that the Jammu and Kashmir Awqaf Board, which controls most Muslim endowments in the state, should play a leading role in this regard, given the vast resources at its command which have not been put to proper use all these years. Qasmi also recognises that in many cases the conversions reflect a growing disillusionment among many Kashmiris with the ongoing violence in the state, as well as a yearning for peace. Unfortunately, he chooses not to elaborate on this vital point. However, it is clear that for at least some converts the continued violence in Kashmir, in which certain radical Islamist groups are deeply implicated, must certainly have been a cause of disillusionment leading them to choose to convert to Christianity, a fact that Qasmi himself admits in passing. As probably the only available book on the subject, this book provides useful insights into the dynamics of Christian missionary work in a politically very sensitive part of the world, although it lacks sufficient ethnographic depth. Given the fact that the American establishment now sees right-wing Christian missionary groups as a major ally in its military involvement in the Muslim world, as exemplified most clearly in Iraq today where missionaries are working in tandem with the American occupation forces, the book points to the urgent need for more in-depth and detailed studies of the political economy of Christian missionary groups, many of them American-funded, working among Muslims today, including in Kashmir.
Posted by: nachiketa Sep 3 2004, 05:26 AM
Incomplete map found in school RAICHUR, SEPT. 2. A map drawn on the wall of Loyola English Medium Primary School in Manvi town does not clearly depict the boundaries of India. The primary school, which is a subsidiary of Loyola Educational Institution of Chennai, started functioning this academic year with an aim to promote education among the rural poor. Recently, the management got the map drawn on the front wall of the school to educate children about the geographical boundaries of India. But the map does not have Jammu and Kashmir, Himachal Pradesh, Punjab and parts of Rajasthan, Haryana and Uttaranchal in the north and Arunachal Pradesh, Nagaland and parts of Meghalaya and Assam in the north-east. Members of the Vishwa Hindu Parishat, the Bajrang Dal and the Go Rakshana Samithi, who noticed the error, have raised objections against it. Action sought In a memorandum released here on Thursday, H.R. Ballal, General Secretary of the district unit of the VHP, K. Veereshwar, Taluk Sanchalak of the Bajrang Dal, and P. Bullappa, president of the district unit of the Go Rakshana Samithi, have appealed to the Deputy Commissioner, G.N. Nayak, to initiate action against the school management in Manvi town for depicting an incomplete map of India. They said that the mistake committed by the management was an insult to the nation, and moreover it was misguiding children. They urged the Deputy Commissioner to inspect the school and direct the management of the school to rectify the fault found in the map without delay. Otherwise, it might lead to communal disturbances, they warned. Alleging that the management had allowed a group of undergraduate foreign students to camp in the school, they demanded that the Deputy Commissioner stop the group of students from indulging in undesirable activities on the school premises. They threatened to stage dharnas if the district administration failed to initiate action to rectify the faults found in the map of India and stop the undesirable activities on the premises of the school.
Posted by: Bhootnath Sep 4 2004, 09:51 AM Politics of Religion Feeding Terrorism The Monitor (Kampala) OPINION September 2, 2004 Posted to the web September 2, 2004 Solomon Bareebe Rukuuka Kampala Prof. Mahmood Mamdani in his book, Good Muslim, Bad Muslim: An African Perspective, disagrees with those who argue that the causes of terrorism are cultural and he argues that the causes of terrorism worldwide are political other than religious. "I want to suggest that we turn the cultural theory of politics on its head. Rather than see this politics as the outcome of an archaic culture, I suggest we see neither the culture not the politics as archaic, but both as very contemporary outcomes of equally contemporary conditions, relations and conflicts. Instead of dismissing history and politics as does culture talk, I suggest we place cultural debates in historical and political contexts. Terrorism is not a cultural residue in modern politics. Rather, terrorism is a modern construction." It is religion that breeds terrorism. Politics is merely a symptom of terrorism, and not a cause. I agree with Leslie Badham when he states in Verdict On Jesus that "the vitality and culture of a society is shaped by its religion." The religions of this world can be divided into two camps: true religion and primitive religion. I equate true religion with being a born again Christian or its distant cousins, the lukewarm Christians of mainstream Protestant churches. True religion emphasises love for God and thy neighbour. As a result, the countries where true religion is practiced are highly developed, democratic and they have a high degree of freedom. Primitive religion on the other hand can be further subdivided into two categories. On the one hand, we have the perverted religions that base their teachings on fear for their deity, hate for non-believers, and the use of force in forceful conversion. Under this category we find Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Confucianism, Animism among others. The countries where primitive religion is predominant are either politically and socially unstable, authoritarian, or if democratic then they curtail on freedoms. Thus, from Krishna (one of the triad of the higher Indian gods called Vishnu) encouraging Arjuna to slay thousands of members of the lower caste, to the Koran encouraging Muslims to slay non-believers; the same pattern of violence is repeated, killing in the name of their god to show their love and allegiance to him (Christianity on the other hand demands that the followers of Christ should be ready to die for Christ, to show their love for him). On the other side of primitive religions, we have various perversions of the teachings of Christ, primitive Christianity. These are the proverbial wolves in sheepskin, they claim to follow Christ, yet teach and practice paganism. The primitive religions in this category include; the Roman Catholic church, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Dutch Reformed Church of South Africa, among others. In countries that predominantly practice primitive religion, freedom, be it individual or spiritual, is curtailed. Paranoia is their hallmark. Under this category, the former papal empire has been well documented as being unparalleled in the history of Europe in corruption, oppression, tyranny, genocide and ungodliness. It had its citizens burnt on the stake for reading the Bible. Thus the leftist guerrillas in Colombia, the E.T.A in Spain, and the I.R.A in Northern Ireland, have one thing in common, they are all deemed as terrorist organisations and they all have their roots in Catholic countries. Indeed, it is not by mistake that in Africa apart from the various Islamic terrorist movements, another terrorist movement the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), happens to have sprung up in the heart of Roman Catholicism. Their leader was a former altar boy! It is not by mistake that terrorism and Islam seem to be Siamese twins; indeed the middle east and the whole of the Islamic world seems to be a hotbed of terrorism; why? Because Islam permits the use of force to convert and promotes the killing of non-believers in the Hadith (tradition). Moderates like Prof. Mamdani may choose to focus on the rosy side of Islam like ostriches burying their heads in sand, but the truth will always speak out in the form of the mass followers that the al Qaedas, Hamas and the Hezbollahs of this world command in the Islamic world. India, the philistines, Sri Lanka, Laos, Chechnya, Cambodia, in the former Shinto Japan, all these countries have the distinction of belonging to nations that adhere to primitive religions, and all are terrorism hotbeds. There is nothing contemporary in the actions of terrorists. What Prof. Mamdani seems to be saying is that humans are so rational as to ignore the negative side of their culture, to ignore their history. But isn't religion the core of anyone's history? Osama Bin Laden and his zealots are not re-writing the Quran, they are simply obeying it! Neither is there anything contemporary in US President George W. Bush's black and white crusade, he is merely quoting the Bible. The West has come up with the concept of human rights, done away with slavery to mention a few of the contributions of Christianity to western civilisation as opposed to their pagan past. At the same time, countries like the US are always tragically drawn into conflict zones where gross violations of human rights and injustice is practiced in an attempt to be the world's policeman, why because their religion demands for justice and equity. Why? Because as Christopher Dawson in Religion and Culture states; "Throughout the greater part of mankind's history, in all ages and states of society, religion has been the great central unifying force in culture. We cannot understand the inner force of a society unless we understand its religion." It is true that that the actions of the US in its fight against the least primitive form of primitive religion, atheist Russia, helped in empowering the current terrorists, but that is looking at the cover and not the contents of the book. The one-sided politics of the US in its partial treatment of Israel in relation to the Arab world in particular and Islam in general is not the cause of terrorism, it is simply a symptom. True religion teaches that you cannot fight evil through evil, that you fight it through good. That is why even after being turned into the greatest guinea pigs in the history of mankind, the black Americans of the US still stand proud as the biggest minority group in America, in addition to being dominant in the arts, sports and in the spiritual sphere. It is true that it is Not Yet Uhuru for the blacks of the US, but it would have been rather worse if they had fought evil with evil; maybe they would have been wiped out like the Red Indians of North America. The apartheid regime of South Africa was not brought down by brute force but rather by the Christian virtue of non-violence and passive resistance. One of the laws of nature written in the Bible states that you reap what you sow. That is why when Sudan eventually pays for the price of the atrocities in the Darfur region with their scalp, we should not blame the avenging angels but rather the people who invited retribution on themselves in the first place. --
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 11 2004, 09:41 AM VATICAN CITY: Pope John Paul II discussed the US sex-abuse scandal with a group of American bishops Saturday, encouraging them to be more open to the needs of parishioners in the wake of a "crisis of confidence in the Church's leadership." The pontiff was speaking with Church officials from Pennsylvania and New Jersey - including Cardinal Justin Rigali, archbishop of Philadelphia, and Archbishop John Myers of Newark - during a regularly scheduled visit to the Vatican. John Paul noted that Roman Catholic bishops have "an unequivocal right and duty of governance." But he indicated that the approach of some American Church leaders may have inadvertently driven a wedge between them and churchgoers. During the scandal, dozens of reports emerged of abusive priests who had been moved from parish to parish rather than being punished. furious.gif Victims groups accused the Church hierarchy of favoring the protection of priests over their victims, and many faithful were infuriated by the response of Catholic leaders. "In our meetings, many of you have expressed your concern about the crisis of confidence in the Church's leadership provoked by the recent sexual abuse scandals, the general call for accountability in the Church's governance on every level and the relations between Bishops, clergy and the lay faithful," the pope told his American visitors. John Paul said, however, that he was convinced the Church would achieve "self-renewal." "In the present circumstances of the Church in America, this will entail a spiritual discernment and critique of certain styles of governance which, even in the name of a legitimate concern for good 'administration' and responsible oversight, can run the risk of distancing the pastor from the members of his flock, and obscuring his image as their father and brother in Christ." The pontiff made clear that the authority of bishops was not in question, but that they needed to include the faithful more. He said "a commitment to creating better structures of participation, consultation and shared responsibility should not be misunderstood as a concession to a secular 'democratic' model of governance, but as an intrinsic requirement of the exercise of episcopal authority and a necessary means of strengthening that authority." This year, US bishops have been visiting the Vatican for "ad limina" meetings, regular encounters that are scheduled every five years. In previous meetings, the pope has also addressed the sex-abuse scandal. Earlier this month, he assured bishops from New England that he supported their efforts to address the damage wrought by clerical sex abuse, acknowledging the scandal "cast a shadow" on the Church. In April, he told a group of bishops from Florida, Georgia and the Carolinas that the scandal could bring a renewing "moment of hope" for the Church in the United States despite "outspoken hostility" from many of the faithful. Cheers
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Sep 14 2004, 06:12 PM
Someone called Amit ( ceaser_one ) contacted me regarding funding my anti-missionary programs He can contact me at
Posted by: Mudy Sep 17 2004, 02:31 PM
US wants to convert all Indians to Christians: RSS Friday, September 17 2004 Bhopal: Terming USA as "India's worst enemy" RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh) Sar Sanghchalak K S Sudarshan today (Sep 16, 2004) alleged it was running two undercover operations - Joshua I and Joshua II - aimed at converting country's entire population into Christians. Sudarshan also cautioned RSS activists against the increase in Muslim population and said, "If the rate continues Hindus would be a minority community by 2060." Addressing a gathering of RSS workers in Bhopal, he said, "America was India's worst foreign enemy as it's funding missionary organisations for practicing conversion." America's CIA (Central Investigative Agency) has helped in carrying out the first operation - Joshua I- wherein surveys were conducted of every post office area in India and a database was created, he alleged. "If CIA requires any information, it has to approach Joshua I in-charge Billy Graham and get it by just clicking at a mouse," the RSS leader said. "Under the Joshua II campaign launched in 2001, they are targeting at conversion of India's entire population by 2011 and spreading wide network of Churches in the country," he alleged. "Non-Government Organisations like Care and Vision accept funds from them and act as agents. Behind the much-publicised aim of service, these organisations are asked to practice conversion," Sudarshan alleged. They are attacking the weakest link in Hindus - the SC and STs, he said adding those who stop such activities are defamed and branded terrorist organisations as done in case of the RSS.
Posted by: Viren Sep 17 2004, 02:38 PM
Is this the same referred in the above post?
Posted by: Mudy Sep 17 2004, 02:43 PM
Is this the same Joshua project referred in the above post?
Looks like ??
Posted by: Sunder Sep 17 2004, 03:14 PM
Can anyone let me know (with references and any tangible proof) if "Operation Eyesight Universal" ( )indulges in missionary activities or encourages such activities ? In Canada, OEU is pretty aggressive in fundraising from Indian community, and I see hindus shelling out money to OEU. The canvassers talk about "Sompeta" in Andhra Pradesh, and how poor 'people' get all the help etc. For some reason, I have misgivings about this organization. I know it was founded by a guy who was a die-hard evangelist. Any info on this would be greatly appreciated.
Posted by: k.ram Sep 18 2004, 07:41 PM
ALL INDIA CHRISTIAN COUNCIL" Regd Office: 1 Amar Jyothi Colony, New Bowenpally, Secunderabad 500 011 Andhra Pradesh Phone No: 27868907 Fax: 27868908 President Dr Joseph D Souza Secretary General Dr John Dayal PRESS STATEMENT 16 September 2004 NGOs welcome Planning Commission invitation for consultations Plan Panel member Mungekar, Sister Mary Scaria, Dalit writer Gael Omvelt honoured Non governmental organisations and activists working in areas of Human rights and development of Minorities, Dalits, OBCs and other marginalized groups have welcomed the offer made by the Planning Commission to seek their cooperation in evolving effective intervention to raise the standards of quality of life, employment and education. Newly appointed Planning Commission Member and eminent Dalit scholar Professor BC Mungekar, who was the first Dalit Vice chancellor of the Bombay university till his recent elevation, announced he would call a meeting soon of voluntary bodies and activists to discuss with them the wide gamut of issues relating to subjects under his change, including education, culture, archaeology and human resource. Dr Mungekar made the announcement at a function organised in his honour at the India International Centre by a group of Civil and human rights organisations including the All India Christian Council, the All India Catholic Union, the Satyashodhak Samaj and others. Also honoured for their contribution to the marginalized were famed author and thinker and Nehru Scholar Dr. Gael Omvelt, Catholic nun Sr Marcy Scaria, coordinator of the Delhi-based Justice and Peace Commission and former MP, Salkhan Murmu who was instrumental in getting the Santhali tribal language constitutional status. Among those who felicitated Dr Mungekar were Jawaharlal Nehru University professor and activist, Dr Kamal Mitra Chenoy, noted Economist Dr Jacob George, Human rights activist Dr John Dayal and Mr. Sunil Sardar, OBC activist of the Satyashodhak Samaj working in Maharashtra and North India. The speakers highlighted the contribution made by Dr Mungekar, who created history when he was nominated vice chancellor of the 146 year old Bombay university. There was controversy when he named important university structures after Dalit and OBC leaders including Ambedkar and Phule. But, said Mungekar, during his three years in office, for the first time perhaps, Dalit parents and students could approach the highest office without trepidation. That itself was an empowerment in a situation where the Dalits had been kept out of the corridors, literally, of the university. Mungekar said the commission headed by Dr Montek Singh Ahluwalia had excellent representation of various sections of society and was committed to a result-oriented planning process. The Tenth Five year Plan is now in a mid-term review after the formation of the new commission by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh who administered the oath of office to the members. Mungekar said he was particularly concerned over the education crisis among the Dalits and marginalized with low admissions, high drop-outs and under employment in an environment of prejudice and diminished opportunity. Non governmental organisations could be important partners of the government in identifying areas which needed urgent redress, he said.
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 21 2004, 01:17 PM
An absolute must-read.. mad.gif
Pastor Paul Crouch looked into the camera and told his flock that Trinity Broadcasting Network needed $8 million to spread the Gospel throughout India and save 1 billion souls from damnation. Crouch, head of the world's largest Christian broadcasting network, said even viewers who couldn't afford a $1,000 pledge should take a "step of faith" and make one anyway. The Lord would repay them many times over, he said. "Do you think God would have any trouble getting $1,000 extra to you somehow?" he asked during a "Praise-a-thon" broadcast from Trinity's studios in Costa Mesa. The network's "prayer partners" came through once again, phoning in enough pledges in one evening to put Christian programming on 8,700 television stations across India.
Posted by: Viren Sep 22 2004, 07:15 AM
Crouch had paid a former employee $425,000 to keep silent about an alleged homosexual generates more than $170 million a year in revenue.......Paul, 70, collects a $403,700 salary paid $361,000 as vice president and director the world in a $7.2-million, 19-seat Canadair Turbojet owned by TBN. They drive luxury cars. They have charged expensive dinners and furniture to TBN credit cards...Their oldest son, Paul Jr., earns $90,800 a year ....Another son, Matthew, has received $32 million from the network ....TBN bought about 40 items from Cool Springs Antiques in Brentwood, Tenn., including a three-piece wine cabinet for $10,000, a $2,800 candelabrum, a $350 birdbath and a seven-piece bedroom suite that cost $3,995....
Wow ohmy.gif Lord indeed giveth in mysterious ways thumbup.gif
Posted by: k.ram Sep 22 2004, 12:16 PM
Title : Church in India to fight forced reconversions of tribals Author : Publication : Cath News Date : September 22, 2004 URL : A bishop in Orissa state in India has vowed to educate tribal people in order to equip them to assert their rights in the face of efforts of Hindu extremists to force them to re-embrace Hinduism. "To fight against forced reconversions in Orissa, we must educate tribal people, in order to equip them to understand their rights and build individual awareness," said Bishp Lucas Kerketta of Sambalpur district in north-east India. AsiaNews reports that last Sunday, 76 tribal Christians "re-embraced" Hinduism in a ceremony organised by the radical wing of Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), the religious wing of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), the former party of power in India. This was the first mass reconversion in Mayurbhanj. The VHP portrayed the event as "a return home for the tribal people". Together with activists of the VHP and RSS, they have been carrying out for several years serious persecution against Christian missionaries and converted people. AsiaNews says Orissa's religious freedom law provides sanctions for missionaries accused of "instigating conversions" without official authorisation. In recent years, there have been numerous incidents of violence against religious minorities in Orissa. The last took place on August 26, when a group of 300 Hindu fundamentalists attacked Our Lady of Charity Parish in Raikia, district of Kandhamal. The attckers entered the church, burned Bibles and destroyed the tabernacle and statues of saints.
Posted by: k.ram Sep 22 2004, 12:21 PM
Title : Christians concerned over forced conversion of tribals: Author : Publication : New Kerala Date : September 21, 2004 URL : action=fullnews&id=32228 A Christian organisation Monday expressed its concern over the increasingly forced conversion of tribal Christians by Hindu radical groups in Orissa. The Global Council of Indian Christians (GCIC), a Bangalore-based organisation, alleged the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) and the Bajrang Dal as well as Bharatiya Janata Party leaders in Orissa had been converting the tribal Christians in Sarat village. "The planned forced conversion of the tribal Christians is on the rise in tribal-dominated Keanjhan, Sundergarh and other districts of Orissa," GCIC's convener Sajan K. George said in a letter to the National Commission for Minorities (NCM). He alleged the state's Freedom of Religions Act, which stipulates prior approval of district authorities for conversion of tribals, was being used only against Christian priests. "The authorities turn a Nelson's eye to the blatant violations by Sangh Parivar (the extended family of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh and its affiliates)," George said. The GCIC has also sent to the minorities panel press clippings on VHP's "re-conversion of 36 tribal Christian families to Hinduism" in Mayurbhanj district. The organisation has urged the panel to persuade the central government to institute a probe into growing incidents of attacks against the Christian community in the state. "These attacks expose the VHP's and other Sangh Parivar's hidden agenda of hate mongering against minority Christians," the memorandum to the commission said. The state had witnessed a series of attacks on members of the Christian community, whom the Hindu radical groups alleged were converting "innocent tribals by coercing or alluring them with monetary benefits". In 1999, an Australian missionary Graham Steins and his two sons were burnt to death by a Hindu fanatic mob in Mayurbhanj district.
Posted by: Mudy Sep 23 2004, 01:46 PM
Village Panchayat tortures a convert Mayiladuturai, Sept 23 Police are in search of the villagers of Eduthukatti in Nagapattinam District, who paraded a young convert naked before torturing him and attempted to rape his sister, for having converted. The village is in turmoil after the villagers noticed that the Siva Lingam, Nandi and Amman Vigrahas along with the puja materials were found scattered in the streets. Asirvatham belongs to Eduthukatti village that neighbors Tarakambadi. His son is William Raj (30). A diploma holder in Computers, William Raj is a handicapped person and owns two computer centres. Recently, William Raj left christianity and obtained Diksha from Sri Sankaralingam Swamigal of Sivagraha Yogi Aadhinam at Suryanor Kovil. He changed his name from William Raj to Sangamitran and had notified his change of name officially in the Gazette notification. Infuriated by this, the villagers (read: christians) man handled him and threw him in a thorny bush. Admitted in the Nagapattinam Government Hospital after being tortured and physically assaulted, Sangamitran says: A born christian, I obtained Siva Deeksha and became a Hindu impressed by the sayings of Tirumulavar, which made me gentle as opposed to my earlier stance of Hindu bashing. Having noticed me applying the sacred Vibhuti on my forehead, they forced my father to fall at their feet and seek an apology. They pressurised me to return to christianity. They boycotted our family because I was opposed to returning to christianity. While I was returning after complaining to the concerned officials about the atrocities meted to us, they pulled the dhavani (dhuppatta) off my sister. Condemning this act, our family went on a hunger strike in front of the Taluk office at Taragambadi. One Senthil Kumar working in the Revenue Department and two conductors of the Government Transport Corporation, Sukumar and Jayachandran pulled off the Spatika and Rudraksha malas that I was wearing round my neck. They stripped me off my saffron dhoti and paraded me naked through the streets and made people spit on me. Not satisfied with this humiliation, they beat me on my head with chappals. They started chasing the people who would come to visit me, smash the vehicles and around midnight of 13th , a gang surrounded my house with deadly weapons that included sickle, knives and bamboo sticks. Breaking through the windows, they entered the house, took away the computer, the expensive books, Rs.14,000 I had kept for the construction of a Temple, 10 sovereigns of gold we had saved for the marriage of my sister and a Navaratna chain. They entered my Puja room and grabbed the Sivalingam, the Ambal and Nandi Vigrahas, various framed photos of Gods and Godesses and threw them on the street. My mother heard them planning to finish me off and immediately locked me and my sister in a room. They dragged my father out of the house with a plan to tie him up to a tree and thrash him. Late in the night, my sister and I slipped out of the house and walked 4 Kms to Puducherry. We swam the Nandalaru, that runs through the Tamil Nadu border and reached Andur Village where we took asylum. With the help of the villagers there we got admitted in the Nagapattinam Government Hospital. Sri Veerashanmugamani, Collector of Nagapattinam District listened to me patiently and assured me that he would take appropriate action. Most of the villagers from Eduthukatti who visited me at the hospital expressed their desire to return to the Hindu fold like me. I will return to the village. I am not afraid I will be killed there. I will announce the date when I would welcome all those who want to return to the Hindu fold out of love for this great religion. The collector, Veerashanmugamani contacted the District Superintendent of Police, Abdul Rahoob and asked him to take appropriate action. The police have registered a case and have slapped charges under over 12 different sections and are in search of the accused. The villagers of Eduthukatti are accusing that a former district secretary of the ruling party is providing shelter to the accused.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Sep 23 2004, 07:20 PM
This report was filed by our project leader in tamil nadu Some member of India-forum are part of the donors who are in a project to counter-act this There is a US tax deductible method to contribute to this anti-missionary project Anyone willing to be pre-screened please contact me Again this is not aimed at ordinary xtians but rather xtian missionaries
Posted by: k.ram Oct 16 2004, 06:34 PM
New Indian Express, October 13, 2004, Wednesday Conversion debate rages on KOZHIKODE: Divergent views on religious conversion were aired at the two different discussions held in the city by the National Development Front (NDF) and the pro-Sangh Parivar Forum for Development Thought. While NDF leader P. Koya held the view that conversion is a basic human right, Dr C.I. Isaac, who presented the topic at the Forum function, said conversion will lead to social tension. Gopinathan Pillai, father of Pranesh Kumar Pillai alias Javed, who was shot dead by Gujarat Police along with three other suspected terrorists, and Javed’s son Siddique were present at the NDF seminar. Pillai said there has been pressure from various quarters to change the Muslim name of his grandson to a Hindu name. “But I want my grandson to grow as a Muslim since his father and mother were Muslims,” he said. Fr Geo Payyapally, O. Abdulla, Mukundan C. Menon, Brother Reni George, Dr M.S. Jayaprakash, Adv C.J. Jose and Adv K.M. Ashraf also spoke. NDF division convener P.T. Ahamed presided. Dr Isaac, on the other hand, said conversion is not just a change of religion, but a demolition of the country’s cultural heritage. Conversion is done under the cover of relief work. The belief that only my religion is correct is dangerous, he said. P. Balakrishnan presided. O. Abdulla, Yuva Morcha State president K. Surendran and others spoke. ------------------------------------------------------------ New Indian Express, October 12, 2004, Tuesday Seminar on religious conversions on Tuesday KOZHIKODE: The city will witness two discussions on religious conversion on Tuesday - one conducted by the National Development Front (NDF) and the other by the Forum for Development Studies. BJP leader V. Muraleedharan, CPM district secretary V.V. Dakshinamoorthy, O. Abdulla, Fr. A. Adappoor, RSS state saha karyavahak P. Gopalankutty and Dr. C.I. Isaac, Head, Department of History, CMS College, Kottayam, will address the event organised by the Forum for Development Studies, at Hotel Alakapuri auditorium at 5.30 p.m. NDF supreme council member P. Koya will present the topic "Religious Conversion is Fundamental Right" at the seminar to be held at the Vyapara Bhavan, at 4 p.m. Fr. Geo Payyappalli, Mukundan C. Menon, Bro. Reni George, Dr. M.S. Jayaprakash, O. Abdulla and Adv. K.M. Ashraf will take part in the discussions. NDF district convener P.T. Ahamed will preside. -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by: Mudy Oct 20 2004, 09:53 AM
Orissa VHP arranges mass reconversion programme Rourkela, Oct 17. (UNI) In a major reconversion drive by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), as many as 336 tribals of 80 families in 11 villages under Sundargarh district were reconverted to Hinduism at a special function in Baridia this evening. Over 2,500 women in a "Kkalas Yatra" arrived at the site where the tribal Christians, including 144 male, 117 female and 75 children, were reconverted to Hinduism through a "Sudhikriya" programme organised by the VHP. VHP All India General Secretary Mohan Joshi conducted the "Yangyan" at the site in presence of several other top VHP leaders of the state. The reconverted tribal Christians were offered dhoti, saree and photographs of various deities after the ceremony. All the tribal families belonging to Lathikata, Gurundia and Subdega blocks of the district had embraced Christianity in the past.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 20 2004, 09:56 AM
Thirteen get jail for defaming temple Monday October 18 2004 MANGALORE: Thirteen persons who had given misleading information to public about the Bajpe Shanishwara temple in December 1999 have been awarded three months rigorous imprisonment, said advocate PP Hegde. ................ They had alleged that the temple management had installed blaring loudspeakers which were ruining peace in the area, he said. Also, they had said that the management was duping people by asking them to pay up for services, Hegde said. Judge B S Honnaswami delivered the verdict in this regard and the 13 were tried in JMFC III court, he said. The 13 who have been arrested are former Zilla Panchayat member Pavana J Shetty, Jeevandas Shetty, John Moraes, Juliette Moraes, Donna Frankie Moraes, Donna Mark Moraes, Harish Poojary, Sharada Harish, Chandayya Suvarna, Zubair Sheikh, Shankar Shetty, Thimmappa Gowda, Gopal Gowda and Ananda Gowda, he said. ID=IEK20041017133506&Title=Southern+News+%2D+Karnataka&Topic=0&
Posted by: Mudy Oct 22 2004, 09:26 AM
Attack on nuns in Kerala—Suspects are Marxists! By N. Badrinath After the attack on nuns in Pandirikav Meethal Colony recently, the blame was promptly laid on RSS and its workers. The media also gave wide publicity to it as part of their blame game. Now it is reported that a Marxist-led org-anisation called ‘Sapta’ was involved in the attacks on the nuns. The missio-naries had reportedly visited the Meethal colony to pursue their evange-lisation efforts. The police have received reliable information on the involvement of Marxist organisations in the assault but are delaying further action on making arrests. A five-member team of Mother Teresa Missionaries of Charity was assaulted on September 25 at Meethal Colony. There are about 15 houses of SC/ST in this colony out of which three had recently embraced Christianity and the missionaries had lauded there for conversion of the rest of the families. The members of ‘Sapta’ had stopped the missionaries and opposed the conversion. The missionaries, in the face of threat, however returned in hundreds, with the police force. Enraged at this, the locals assaulted the missionaries. The blame for assault was shifted on RSS by the pseudo-intellectuals and the Marxists themselves. The so-called secular media of Kerala published full statements of the injured nuns. The former Union Minister and BJP leader, O. Rajagopal, who visited the spot and met the injured missionaries, has identified the real culprits behind the attack. “The missionaries had returned to Meethal Colony to convert the rest of the families. The attackers belonged to the ‘Sapta’ organisation and all of them are Marxist workers,” said Shri Rajagopal. He has demanded that the CBI should make an enquiry into the incident. Only one culprit has so far been arrested out of the 30 accused. The government of Kerala has decided to entrust the enquiry into the incident to the crime branch.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 25 2004, 11:01 AM
Christian missionaries arrested for preaching A Mumbai-based Pastor Karl Silva and four Catholic missionaries have been arrested and sent to custody for preaching in a tribal area during the Durga Puja festival. Their bail application has been rejected too. Reports reveal that the Christian preachers were preaching last Thursday evening at Suliapada in Mayurbhanj district. This annoyed the crowd and a local student opposed this and asked the preachers to stop. The preachers allegedly started hurling abuses due to which the people complained to the police who intervened and arrested the five preachers. Mayurbhanj district was in the news recently for VHP-sponsored reconversion ceremonies, where hundreds of Christians were reconverted to Hinduism. Abhiram Dhala, a local was among the five preachers. Dhal, who had been staying in Mumbai for 12 years had accompanied the Christian group on their mission to Suliapada. The other Mumbai-based preachers are Roshan D'Souza, Ganesh Wankhede and Ramesh T Thawar. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
Posted by: Sunder Oct 27 2004, 08:49 AM NEW DELHI: A leading Christian organisation Wednesday appealed to Saudi Arabia to show mercy to an Indian Christian convicted of "spreading Christianity" in the Islamic kingdom. Brian O'Connor of Karnataka was arrested in Saudi Arabia in March on charges of spreading Christianity. He was sentenced to 10 months in prison and 300 lashes, the All India Catholic Union (AICU) said. Besides appealing to King Fahd bin Abdul Aziz Al Saud "to generously give clemency to O'Connor", AICU president John Dayal has sought the intervention of Indian President APJ Abdul Kalam in the matter. "Brian's arrest and now the sentence of a jail term and lashing have caused deep concern amongst the Christian community in India and the Indian community abroad," Dayal said in his letter. Really?? Now every Indian is concerned about the christian priest because he is an Indian.? "We appeal to the government of India to urgently intercede with the government of Saudi Arabia for the immediate release of (Brian)," he said. (See how TOI Does not call it Communal or fanaticism at all.)
Posted by: Mudy Oct 27 2004, 10:55 AM
Really?? Now every Indian is concerned about the christian priest because he is an Indian.?
Ya, especially VHP. RSS supporter Indian Community abroad are concerned. Dayal was sleeping when Hindus get abused in Saudi Arabia
Posted by: Ashok Kumar Oct 27 2004, 11:27 AM
India should have 'reciprocal treatment' laws for foreigners. If a Hindu or Christian can get jailed and punished by 300 hundred lashes for precahing their religion, then a Saudi in India should be given the same treatment for trying to preach Islam in India. If a Hindu or Christian can't carry their religious books into Saudi Arab, then Saudis must be asked to dispose of their religious books when they enter India. We have enough of this religious supremacist nonsense from an anomaly of a nation called Saudi Arabia. Time to administer them their own medicine.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 27 2004, 11:36 AM
India should have 'reciprocal treatment' laws for foreigners.
Well, vote bank will get hurt by this policy. Even Dayal have decided not to advise "tit for tat" policy. These policy need strong will and pride, which is not present in Indian politician.
Posted by: Ashok Kumar Oct 27 2004, 11:42 AM
Why should Saudis be allowed to invest in Madrassas and mosques in India if Indian Hindus and Christians can't invest in temples and churches and religious schools in Saudia?
Posted by: Sunder Oct 27 2004, 12:06 PM
If a Hindu or Christian can get jailed and punished by 300 hundred lashes for precahing their religion, then a Saudi in India should be given the same treatment for trying to preach Islam in India. If a Hindu or Christian can't carry their religious books into Saudi Arab, then Saudis must be asked to dispose of their religious books when they enter India.
This cannot happen even in sending Ambassadors to K.S.A. IIRC, they only what a muslim as an ambassador or C.G from India. I do not think China, England or USA sends a mullah as an ambassador, nor does India have a Hindu form KSA as it's ambassador.. A little more spine is needed to deal with reciprocal treatments. Nationalism is lacking with the commie/christhu/kalifa community.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 28 2004, 09:56 AM
Christian Churches Adopt Hindu Ceremony To Woo Converts THIRUVANANTHAPURAM, October 25, 2004 Hindu Press International St. George Orthodox Syrian Church in Thiruvananthapuram conducted Vidyarambham or the ceremony to initiate children into the world of letters over the weekend. It is essentially a Hindu tradition, which this Thirvananthapuram church started following last year. This time many Christian and non-Christian parents took part in the ceremony with their children. "The Hindus take their children for this ceremony. So we were also keen to get this ritual done through a church leader," says Bindu, a parent. "We believe that if it's done in the name of Jesus, the children will be disciplined, they will respect their parents and listen to their teachers," says another parent G K Soman. When this church began the ceremony last year, it was opposed by a section of the congregation who alleged the "Hinduisation" of the church. But this time the church Vicar got the backing of the Church general body. The Vicar insists the church is adopting a Malayalam tradition rather than a Hindu ceremony. But he admits it could help soothe communal tension, specially since the Kerala Christian community has been increasingly attacked by right wing Hindu groups in the recent past. "Surely it will lead to communal harmony. That is the main aspect. That's why we are conducting it," says Father Geevarghese Erakkath, Vicar. Taking a cue from the Thiruvananthapuram church, two more churches and a mosque organized similar functions in the State. Although Vidyambham is a traditional Hindu ceremony, the church leaders here view it as an integral part of Kerala's rich cultural heritage. They say they have set a precedent for other Christian denominations to follow to strengthen the secular fabric of our country [link= newwindow][/link]
Posted by: Mudy Oct 28 2004, 10:02 AM
Why should Saudis be allowed to invest in Madrassas and mosques in India if Indian Hindus and Christians can't invest in temples and churches and religious schools in Saudia?
In India Politician and so called Indian Historian till today don't acknowledge atrocities against Hindus in India by Muslims and Christians, How these spineless idiots will do anything to their most precious vote bank? How they can hurt Indian Muslim feeling by asking questions to their believed country that is guarding their religious places. These minorities have no problem insulting and discarding Majority religious places in India.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 28 2004, 10:16 AM
Do you think Indian politician or Historian or HR or NGO will find anything offensive in this picture but they will find foul if Hindu start doing same in India? Where is UN sancations against them? Why Muslims never raise voice against? Muslims see problems in others, they never hesistate critiziing Israel. user posted image Muslim Apartheid.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 29 2004, 02:30 PM
do you know that 70% of the Christian population in South India is comprised of dalits? There are over a 150 Bishops in India and 15 in Tamil Nadu alone. Except for Ezra Sargunam, there are no other dalit bishops in Tamil Nadu. And how many dalit or tribal bishops in the all India tally? Ten, fewer than 10? How many dalit Christians have risen to the highest positions in Christian medical and other educational, social or cultural institutions? How many parishes are under dalit priests? Will upper caste Christians accept holy water from a dalit priest and how many upper caste Christians marry into families of dalit Christians? Has there been any real empowerment or social mobility because of conversion or because of Christian charity? Ms.Morales, I would now like to speak specifically about your mission to India. How does it help ma’m to have the US monitoring religious freedom in India? Religious freedom is only one of the several freedoms guaranteed in any democracy. Political freedom is as important as religious freedom, I am sure you would agree. And the US prides itself on being the oldest democracy and along with human rights and religious freedom the US wants to promote democracy too in those parts of the world where they have other kinds of government. And would you agree ma’m that the electoral process by which democratic governments are put in place is very important too? Then how can the US which has kept large sections of its own citizens out of the White House – women, African-Americans, racial and religious minorities, where democracy is so flawed and political freedom denied to all, how can the US come to India to monitor and implement religious freedom? Let us assume that our External Affairs ministry which is the Indian equivalent to the US State Department or the Indian Parliament constitutes a Commission and an Office to monitor political freedom and the state of your country’s democracy and used our embassies and diplomatic missions to gather information and to interact with Americans and American NGOs, how do you think your government will react ma’m? All countries have their internal difficulties and problems. Outside interference can prove costly and even counter-productive. Just as we have to wait for American democracy to mature so as to ensure political freedom for all, the US must have faith in the Indian people to bring about communal harmony and improve inter-religious relations. Writing reports does not help and can do very little. I thank you very much for having invited me to this meeting. Whatever I said needed to be said. In conclusion, I would request you to approach the spokesperson for the RSS to get the Hindu point of view in any situation. Your reports have a biased slant. Ms.Joanella Morales: I would like to state that our reports are very fair and very accurate. We are constrained to use certain phrases in our reports as mandated by Congress. The highest grade that a country can get with regard to religious freedom is ‘generally respects’. And this year, India’s report is much better when compared to prevous years. We have stated in our report this September that India ‘generally respects’ religious freedom.
Posted by: k.ram Oct 31 2004, 06:17 AM
Spread the good word (LONG)! Sorry no URL-- The Battle for Your Mind by Dick Sutphen SUMMARY OF CONTENTS The Birth of Conversion/Brainwashing in Christian Revivalism in 1735. The Pavlovian explanation of the three brain phases. Born-again preachers: Step-by-Step, how they conduct a revival and the expected physiological results. The "voice roll" technique used by preachers, lawyers and hypnotists. New trance-inducing churches. The 6 steps to conversion. The decognition process. Thought-stopping techniques. The "sell it by zealot" technique. True believers and mass movements. Persuasion techniques: "Yes set," "Imbedded Commands," "Shock and Confusion," and the "Interspersal Technique." Subliminals. Vibrato and ELF waves. Inducing trance with vibrational sound. Even professional observers will be "possessed" at charismatic gatherings. The "only hope" technique to attend and not be converted. Non-detectable Neurophone programming through the skin. The medium for mass take-over. (Thanks Sunder garu - Link Below folks)
Posted by: Sunder Oct 31 2004, 10:02 AM
QUOTE (k.ram @ Oct 31 2004, 06:47 PM)
Spread the good word (LONG)! Sorry no URL -- The Battle for Your Mind by Dick Sutphen
Here's the URL:
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 3 2004, 08:18 AM
TAIPEI, Taiwan - A man leaped into a lion’s den at the Taipei Zoo on Wednesday to try to convert the king of beasts to Christianity, but was bitten in the leg for his efforts. “Jesus will save you!” shouted the 46-year-old man at two African lions lounging under a tree a few meters away. “Come bite me!” he said with both hands raised, television footage showed. One of the lions, a large male with a shaggy mane, bit the man in his right leg before zoo workers drove it off with water hoses and tranquilizer guns. Newspapers said that the lions had been fed earlier in the day, otherwise the man might have been more seriously hurt ... or worse.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 3 2004, 08:37 AM
Lion want to stay Hindu/Buddhist. Lion confirmed he believes in sprituality and his birth religion. GO LION! GO LION!
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 6 2004, 12:46 AM
Just made $51 donation to -> will serve 306 meals to hungry kids in Orissa - all missionary free. Come on guys - its diwali time - pull out that credit card.. rocker.gif
Posted by: Bhootnath Nov 9 2004, 01:05 PM Pressure to Convert to Christianity Drives Medical Student to Suicide Attempt November 9, 2004, 3:37 am Mysore Medical College Bulletin In May this year, the persitent pressure of envangelist instructors at the Mysore Medical College drove a student to attempt suicide in Mysore, India. Earlier this year third-year nursing student, Manjula, consumed poison unable to bear harassment by her instructor to convert to Christianity. Mrs.Velangani, the Principal of KR Hospital Nurse Training College attempted to forcibly convert the students of the college and was suspended after angry students agitated against her. Manjula was immediately taken to the emergency ward and after a stomach-wash, she is said to be out of danger. This extreme step angered her collegemates who in full attendance, gheraoed the office of the K.R. Hospital Superintendent and urged him to dismiss Mrs. Velangani on the spot. Superintendent Mr. B.P. Satyanarayana, reading the depth of the agitation, tried to console the agitating students by promising to shift Mrs. Velangani out of the Nursing College. But students wanted nothing else but her dismissal. On learning about the angry mood of the students, the authorities sent Mrs. Velangani on two month's leave immediately. By then, the agitation took another turn which seemed to go out of control. The students shouted slogans that Mrs. Velangani involved in conversion. They alleged that she discriminated students on caste basis, by not granting leave to Hindu students, whereas Christian students enjoyed the leave facilities. Some girl students, who were seen crying incessantly, threatened to commit suicide if Mrs. Velangani is not removed from service immediately. Even the Principal of Mysore Medical College Dr. Chandrashekara Shetty, who arrived later, failed to pacify the angry students. The news of alleged conversion bid spread like wildfire and Bhajrang Dal activists, led by Convenor, Mr. Premkumar and former Corporator, Mr. Mahadevu, rushed to the hospital and joined the agitating students in their dharna. There were noisy and heated arguments between the Bhajrang Dal activists and hospital authorities over handling of the situation. Even the majority Christian staff of other departments of K.R. Hospital were seen taking the side of the students. They alleged that the management was hand-in-glove with Mrs. Velangani. More details can be found at
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Nov 9 2004, 05:31 PM
Morons swamis who praise jesus have made this easy ------ This is a massive organized and well funded program to rewrite history, so as to show that Hinduism was derived from early Christianity. I felt that this information needs to be widely shared and exchanged. Please see in it scope for greater interaction and action, if any. Please forward it to the interested friends. ULTIMATELY THIS GOES BEYOND RELIGION AND IS ABOUT IMPERIALISM: This is a part of what has been going on as a massive organized and well funded program to rewrite history, so as to show that Hinduism was derived from early Christianity. Stage 1 of making Hinduism illegitimate was to show that Hinduism originated in British colonial times. But many items could not be explained as they were earlier. Stage 2 was to show that these came from islam - such as bhakti. Hawley is leading these stages. Stage 3 is now to go even deeper and show how early Christianity brought even those aspects that Muslims or British did not. Years ago, I heard the scholar in charge of the 15 volume Mahabharata project of which half the volumes are done already. He made the statement that Gita should be dated at around 5th century CE. (This in my opinion gives them enough time to make it fit into the Christian origins of Gita.) He said that Gita was grafted into what was a violence prone religion, just to make Mahabharata look mild and ethical. This is far more insidious than the Aryan invasion theory. So the strategy is grand and long term. Look at the way mentioned in the announcement they have divided into teams with plans etc. Look at the list of topics at the end into which they organized the work to be done. THEY MEAN BUSINESS. They do have enormous library archives as Christian institutions took control over most documents and never returned them. Access is also limited to insiders in many instances and/or at very heavy fees which Indian scholars cannot afford. (CK Raju told me that many Vatican translations/appropriations from Indian mathematics and science are in old manuscripts that are not given access to outside scholars - he has tried.) In contrast with clarity of purpose and concreteness of plans, Hindus scholars (the very few that are there) are lost in nostalgia and chauvinist optimism about 5,000 years old invincibility via mantras, and other lofty baloney. They are too deeply stuck with their heads in sand to be able to assess threats and pick their intellectual battles accordingly. Many are also lost in the "sameness" nonsense. If someone plans to submit them proposals for papers and/or participate let me know. Does anyone know who are their funding sources - Pew, Templeton, Seminaries...? ********************************************* Subject: Missionary attempts to distort Indian History Please suggest ways to counter and put a full stop to this missionary attempt to distort Indian History. There is no integrated set up to defend Hindus at the level of conferences, seminars and proceedings, where much is done by the enemies of Hinduism . Missionaries have a corporate set up, and are able to organise themselves. Now they are carrying the distortion into the heart of American financial capital - New York . Please visit www first - to have full grasp of the subject before. ****************************** Link for the conference: FIRST INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE / SEMINAR ON THE HISTORY OF EARLY CHRISTIANITY IN INDIA (From the advent of St. Thomas to Vasco de Gama) (13th - 16th August 2005 in New York) The history of Christianity in India is traceable to the advent of St. Thomas soon after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. But this has been a subject of controversy for a long time owing to lack of documentary evidences. Now, we are able to get lot of evidences both internal and external to testify to the existence early Christianity in India from the period of St. Thomas. History in early India is different from history as conceived in Europe and other countries. There was no pure historical document in India with chronological details and whatever is available as ancient historical documents are a blending of historical facts with fictional elements. Literatures were the main sources for reconstructing history and they were not very particular in documenting facts as they were but in depicting facts as the author of the text interpreted in his own impressionistic way. Consequently, there are lot of mythicization in the so-called historical materials and any attempt to demythicize them will sometime leads to distortion of history. There are two important views about the origin of Christianity in India ; One holds that Christianity came to India through the works of the apostles St. Thomas & St. Bartholomew. The other view is that the merchants and the missionaries of East Syrian or Persian Church brought Christianity to India. The Indian tradition on the advent of St. Thomas to Malabar seems to be a very concrete tradition supported by lot of historical evidences. The Acts of Judas Thomas written in Syriac by the Edezza circle in 3rd century A.D. seems to be the earliest record that speaks about this tradition. In addition to this, a number of stray passages in the writings of Origen, Eusebius of Caesarea, Rufinus of Aquileia, Socrates, Ephrem of Nisibis, Gregory Nizianzus, Ambrose and Jerome speak about the visit of St. Thomas to India, even though there are still some others who deny this claim. St. Ephrem composed hymns glorifying St.Thomas whose relics were being venerated in a shrine at Edizza where this great Syrian poet - theologian was living. Another work namely The Teaching of the Apostles in Syriac (Didascalia) also speaks about the same tradition. According to this work "India and all its own countries and those bordering on it even to the farther sea, receives the Apostles hand of the priest hood from Judas Thomas, who was guide and ruler in the Church he built there". There is another tradition which speaks at length about the advent of St. Bartholomew to India. But we are not able to come across adequate internal evidences although St. Jerome and Eusebius of Caesarea of the 4th century AD speak about this tradition. These two writers refer to this tradition while speaking about the visit of Pantaenous to India in the 2nd century A.D. According to Eusebius , "Pantaenous is said to have gone among the Indians where a report is that he discovered there the Gospel according to St. Matthew among some who knew Christ ; Bartholomew, one of the Apostles had preached to them and had left them the writings of St. Matthew in Hebrew letters. According to St. Jerome, Demetrius, Bishop of Alexandria, sent Pantaenous to India". But few other scholars deny the advent of Bartholomew to India and according to them, Jerome would have mistaken Ethiopia to India. But scholars like A.C. Perumalil and G.M. Moraes proved the otherwise. According to them, Bombay region on the Konkan coast may be the place referred to with regard to the visit of Bartholomew. Since the traditions about Bartholomew and St. Thomas intermingled, the references about Bartholomew might have been lost in course of time. According to A.C. Perumalil, Bartholomew Christians continued as a separate community until the coming of the Portuguese and then merged with the Christians of Bombay. The South Indian tradition about St. Thomas is preserved in an oral tradition and in the tradition about St. Thomas Christians who claim their Christian origin from St. Thomas. Historians consider the Coromandal tradition of St. Thomas as very ancient to the Malabar tradition. The Malabar tradition about St. Thomas is comparatively later but it is strong and vital. This tradition associates St. Thomas with definite places and specific families. The Malabar tradition which associates St. Thomas with Palaiyur, Parur, Kokkamangalam and Niranam is not contradicting with any other tradition. The Coromondal tradition centres on Mylapore where the tomb of the apostle is pointed out. Marcopolo, the Venetian travellor, visited the tomb in A.D.1295 and no rival tradition has contradicted this tradition. It is said that the Christians of Malabar enjoyed peace during the early centuries and they were supported by Non-Christian rulers. There is a tradition that St. Thomas conferred priesthood in the members of certain families in Malabar. The Early Christian community in India is alleged to have suffered decline in due course and it was constituted by groups of Christians who came from Persia and hence there were close relationship between Christianity in India and the Early Church of Persia. The Chronicle of Seert, an important East Syrian document of 7th century AD makes reference to a Bishop namely David who evangelised the Indian people between 250 - 300 AD. In the list of the 325 Bishops who attended the Nicaean Council is mentioned one John of Persian, who, according to the History of Gelasius, was bishop of the whole of Persia and Greater India. Many groups of East Syrian Christians are often mentioned as migrated to Malabar. Among them one group is associated with Thomas of Cana (4th C. AD) and another with two saintly men Sapor and Potto (of 9th or 10th C. AD). The Malabar tradition whether recorded by the Portugese or local accounts, is always careful to distinguish Thomas, the Apostle from Thomas of Cana. Somehow or other, East Syrian Church was looked upon by the Portugese in 16th C. AD. and by some western missionary with suspicion. They accused the Thomas Christians of fallen into the heresy of Nestorianism which the Thomas Christians vehemently deny. Christianity in the Tamilnadu during this phase of early history was a very potential force and its ethics and other theological codes find powerful expression even in secular Tamil Classics like Tirukkural and Naladiyar. Its impact is felt in the native worship and especially in the local religions like Saivism and Vaishnavism. It is obvious that India received a number of missionaries many of whom belonged to Asia and other parts of the world. The Yavanar, probably people from Greece and Rome, spread the message of Christianity in the length and breadth of Indian soil. Anyhow, we are able to understand that Christianity was deeply rooted in the Indian milieu, thanks to the works of proselytism by men of eminence starting from St. Thomas. But most of the records have been lost or destroyed and Christianity might have underwent lot of sea-changes owing to many a time of adversity faced by it. It has left its strong impact on the other religions of India ; it was instrumental for the emergence many number of Indian religions. Its presence is felt in all religions of India in various forms. Its impact on the emergence of Mahayana Buddhism, especially in the conception of the Bodhisatva as well as the second coming of the Maitreya Buddha, is indeed marvelous. The Early Indian Christianity, which was a part and parcel of the ancient oriental Christianity, gave strength and vigour to Indian culture and Indian ethos in multifarious ways. The deep impact exerted by the early Christianity in the early Indian ethos was indeed tremendous although its physical presence was not very glamourous today as it was shrouded by the misinterpretations and misrepresentations of the later historians of this country. The aim of the present conference is to establish the existence of early Christianity in Indian soil with objective and well documented evidences and to study its strong impact on medieval and classical India until the advent of Vasco de Gama whose epoch - making visit inaugurated a new chapter in the cultural, and political history of this great nation. We are sure that the reconstruction of the early Christianity in India will shed new light on the history of Indian Philosophy and Indian Culture in general and this will give new orientation and new perspective to our understanding of the classical and medieval culture and civilization. The so-called Hindu historians of our day failed to see the history of India as a whole since their approaches are partial and fragmentary giving stress only to Hinduism neglecting the other forces instrumental for the building up of Indian culture. What we need to day is a wholesome and complete view of the Indian culture with objective assessment of the internal as well as external evidences and balanced presentation of facts. We are sure that this conference will throw new light not only on the early Christianity of India but also to help to reconstruct the history of India as a whole. Proposed Topics - Tentative 1. History of Christianity in India - Problems and Perspectives 2. Advent of St. Thomas. 3. Land and Sea-routes of the early Christian Missionaries 4. The countries from where Christian Missionaries came and the geographical areas of their activities. 5. Early Christianity and the important sea-ports of India 6. Early Christian activities in India - An overview 7. Early Christians in Tamilnadu 8. Early Christians and Sangam Tamil Society. 9. Early Christianity with special reference to Canron in Sangam Literature and Thirukkural. 10. Early Christians in Malabar. 11. Early Christians in North India. 12. Early Christian Missionaries and Martyrs. 13. The External History of Early Christianity - An overview 14. Advent of St. Bartholomew 15. Foreign Records on St. Bartholomew. 16. Apocrypha & early Christianity in India 17. Acts of St. Thomas 18. Gospel of St. Thomas 19. St. Thomas and the North Indian king Gondabarus. 20. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Greeks - North India) 21. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Romans - South India) 23. Early Christianity and Yavanar (Jews and Syrians) 23. The Churches established by St. Thomas 24. St.Thomas - Santhome and Mylapore 25. Mylapore and Christianity 26. Tirukkural and Christianity 27. Inscriptions in St. Thomas Mount. 28. An objective assessment of the various traditions on St. Thomas 29. Christianity and its impact on earlier indigenous texts 30. Early Christianity and Oral traditions 31. Linguistic evidences 32. Excavations etc. 33. Christianity and the origin of Sanskrit. 34. Christianity and Indian Myths. 35. Christianity and Early Indian literature. 36. Christianity and Indian Theology. 37. Early Indian Christianity- Numismatic evidences. 38. Early Indian Christianity- Iconographic evidences. 39. Early Indian Christianity- Epigraphic evidences. 40. Thomas of Cana and Syriac traditions 41. Nestorians and Syrian Christians 42. Foreign Records on Early Christianity - An overview 43. Hebrew 44. Greek 45. Syriac 46. Ethiopic 47. Arabic 48. Persian 49. Latin 50. Coptic 51. Spanish 52. Italian 53. Armenian 54. Sanskrit 55. Records in other languages 56. Characteristic features of Early Christianity 57. Other foreign reports on Medieval Christianity 58. Marcopolo's report about Christianity in Mylapore. 59. Divisions and Denominations in Early Christianity. 60. Early Christianity and Native Culture - An overview 61. Buddhism and Christianity 62. Christ versus Krishna - concepts and mythmaking 63. The second coming of Christ and Maitreya Buddha 64. Christianity and Bodhisatva 65. Impact of Trinity in Hinduism 66. Christianity and Saktham 67. Christianity and Saivism 68. Christianity and Vaishnavism 69. Christianity and Kaumaram 70. Christianity and Ganapathyam 71. Christianity and Sowram 72. Christianity and the Brahmasutra. 73. Christianity and the Bhagavat Gita 74. Christianity and the Six Dharshanas. 75. Christianity and Advaida. 76. Christianity and Vedanta. 77. Christianity and Agamas. 78. Christianity and the Upanishads. 79. Christianity and the Ithihasas. 80. Christianity and the Siddhar Movement. 81. Impact of Christianity in devotional literature 82. Marriage metaphor in Indian Literature. 83. The theme of suffering in Job and Harichandra. 84. Bible and the Oriental images. 85. Oriental themes and expressions in the Bible 86. Mode of worship among early Christians 87. Liturgy and devotional literature in early Christianity 88. Shared features of early Indian Christianity with the Oriental Christianity in other parts of Asia. 89. Impact of Early Christianity on Indian life - An overview. 90. Culture 91. Art and Architecture 92. Performing Arts 93. Folk traditions 94. Literature 95. Language 96. Royal patronage for Christianity 97. Christianity and Indian Political history 98. Christianity and Indian Social history. 99. Early Christianity in other parts of Asia. 100. Dilution and Corruption in Early Indian Christianity. 101. Restoration of Early Indian Christianity. 102. Symbols of Early Indian Christianity. 103. Roots of Sikkhism and Early Indian Christianity. 104. Early Christianity in Kerala. 105. St. Thomas Christians in the Context of Indian Culture. Execution of the Project There shall be three important main committees with a number of sub-committees to monitor and execute the project. Delegates will be selected and invited from various organisations all over the world. Persons who have done intensive study on the above topics will be invited as delegates. I. International Advisory Committee A committee consisting of 12 scholars of international repute may be constituted to offer guidelines on the methodology, thematic treatment and in editing the papers. II. International Organising Committee A Committee consisting of 12 representatives from various countries and Organisations all over the world will be constituted to offer guidelines and suggestions in the successful conduct of the conference programmes. III. Working Committee A Committee consisting of few local representatives has been constituted to monitor and execute this project with the help of the various sub-committees constituted to look after the variety of works. Conference Programme - Tentative The programme shall continue for five days with an inaugural session, a valedictory session and eight academic sessions which will be divided into many more sub-sessions depending upon the number of papers. There shall be five cultural programmes in the evenings. The programme is fixed tentatively to July 2005. The seminar papers will be published in 4 volumes. Style-Sheet for Contributors 1. The total number of pages of research papers shall vary from 15 to 45 depending upon the data available and the nature of interpretations required. 2. Manuscripts should be submitted in duplicate. They must be typed or printed on one side only; double-spaced with sufficient margins on all sides to facilitate editing and styling. All notes should also be typed or printed double-spaced. 3. Notes should be consecutively numbered and presented at the end of the paper. 4. Lengthy quotations should start on a separate line and be indented; shorter quotations should run into the text with single quotation marks. 5. Citations from archival sources must specify the archival location including the town and country where an archive is located. In case of recorded oral material, the location of the recording should be specified. In other cases, the name and location of the oral informant should be clearly stated. For inscriptions, the title of the volume with publication details should be mentioned. For other details kindly follow the "M.L.A. Handbook for Writers of Research Paper". (fifth edition) or "Writing Research Papers - A guide" by James. D. Lister. This Conference is organised jointly by the Institute of Asian Studies, Chennai, India, The Centre for the Study of Christian Literature and Culture in Indian Languages (CSCLC), Chennai, India, and few other academic centres of advanced research in other countries. For more informations about the Institute of Asian Studies and the CSCLC visit and For further details on the Conference, please contact: Dr. G. John Samuel Founder-Director, Institute of Asian Studies, Chemmancherry, Sholinganallur P.O. Institute of Asian Studies home page
Posted by: Viren Nov 11 2004, 10:20 AM
Posted by: Mudy Nov 15 2004, 10:28 AM
Case against pastor, three others By Our Staff Reporter BHIMAVARAM, NOV. 14. The One Town police have registered a case against a pastor, Jesudasu, of a Pentecostal church here and three other church workers following a complaint by an activist of the Bajrang Dal. The Narsapur DSP, R. Sivarama Raju, told The Hindu that the case was registered under Sections 295-A (deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage the religious feelings of any class by insulting its religion or religious beliefs) and 298 (uttering words, etc. with a deliberate intent to wound religious feelings). According to the DSP, the plans by the Pentecostal church to organise a three-day religious discourse on "Jesus Christ in Vedas'' as part of its 36th anniversary celebrations scheduled to have begun on Saturday, drew serious objections from the Hindutva organisations. Rudraraju Venugopal Raju, a Bajarang Dal worker and correspondent of Raghavendra Educational Institutions, in his complaint alleged that intentions of the church were aimed at hurting the sentiments of people of other faiths. The church suspended discourse on the topic and confined itself to celebrating its anniversary on Monday following the advice of the police
Posted by: Mudy Nov 15 2004, 10:29 AM
GS, How's your friend doing? Pray for his safety.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Nov 15 2004, 01:58 PM
I spoke to him he is OK But his phone is being monitored Contact me privately for details
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Nov 16 2004, 06:14 AM
A reminder to all forum members I am running a low cost high impact anti-missionary effort near Chennai Since we can now see a surge in evangelisation in tamil nadu, we need all the help we can get both in terms of cash as well as local volunteers Please contact me by private email
Posted by: k.ram Nov 18 2004, 05:32 PM
If anyone is interested in this article, ping me. Too long to post here, and it is about native americans. -------------------------------------------- "THINGS THAT DO ACCOMPANY SALVATION": Colonialism, Conversion, and Cultural Exchange in Experience Mayhew's Indian Converts Early American Literature; 1/1/1998; HILARY E. WYSS Early American Literature 01-01-1998 In 1727, Experience Mayhew, a missionary on Martha's Vineyard, published Indian Converts, an account documenting the conversion of the Island's Native population. Addressing the tract to the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel (SPG), Mayhew sought to reassure his SPG benefactors that his missionary work had not been in vain; to that effect, through a series of short, biographical sketches, he catalogued the Pokanoket men, women, and children who had converted since the missionaries' arrival on Martha's Vineyard in the 1640s. While Indian Converts is written primarily in Mayhew's words, he intersperses textual fragments of Native writings throughout. The tensions inherent in the text between various subject positions and the power structures that inform them are deeply embedded in the history of Martha's Vineyard, both in terms of the Mayhew family's position and the complex and rapidly changing situation of the Native population. Mayhew's missionary voice and the voices of Native converts coexist uneasily in these narratives; as they struggle to come to terms with their interdependence, their interplay suggests some of the intricacies of cultural exchange.(FN1)
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 24 2004, 01:10 PM
Posted by: Mudy Nov 28 2004, 05:46 PM
Not related to India ---
The sign in front of the Church of the Nazarene in Sunnyvale, promoting a sermon by Sunday's guest speaker, is raising a few eyebrows. ``Why I am not a Muslim,'' reads the electric signboard in front of the church at 975 Fremont Ave. But church officials and the speaker say the message isn't intended to inflame.
My goal is not to offend Muslims, but to communicate why I changed my religion,'' he said. ``It was mostly spiritual reasons that led to my conversion.'' Fareed is an Iranian Muslim by birth who fled his homeland following the Islamist revolution that continues to dominate the Tehran government today. Rebelling against the perceived harshness of Islam's holy laws as interpreted by leaders there, he moved to the United States and, about 14 years ago, converted to evangelical Christianity after a spiritual journey in which he first dabbled in Sufism and Scientology. He said he converted because Christianity allowed him to have ``a personal relationship with God through Christ,'' whereas Islam does not. In his mind, a personal relationship with God allows a person to seek his help on the path to salvation, whereas Islam simply demands its adherents to stick to rigid laws with no feedback from Allah. The founder of a San Jose-based organization called Persian Ministries, Fareed hosts a weekly television show in the Bay Area. More than two years ago, he said, he vastly expanded his reach by broadcasting globally by satellite in Farsi. He believes he now reaches about 30 million people each week. He said large numbers of Iranians and other Muslims he has talked with have begun to open up to other religious options in the face of harsh Islamist governments. Sunnyvale resident Waheed Siddiqee said he was ``disappointed'' at the tone of the sign in front of the Nazarene church, a few blocks from his home, because it comes off as a challenge to his Muslim faith. However, he said, ``It's a free country and he's free to speak his mind. There is nothing we can do about it.'' Siddiqee said he questions how much headway Christianity is making in terms of winning converts from countries run by Islamist regimes. ``I imagine there is a certain percentage of more moderate Muslims who might be unhappy about some of the rules and regulations that are being implemented, and might be turned off. But I think most Muslims are very comfortable with their faith.''
Posted by: Mudy Nov 28 2004, 08:54 PM NEW YORK If America's secular liberals think they have it rough now, just wait till the Second Coming. The "Left Behind" series, the best-selling novels for adults in the United States, enthusiastically depict Jesus returning to slaughter everyone who is not a born-again Christian. The world's Hindus, Muslims, Jews and agnostics, along with many Roman Catholics and Unitarians, are heaved into everlasting fire: "Jesus merely raised one hand a few inches and ... they tumbled in, howling and screeching."
Posted by: Nikhil Nov 28 2004, 09:00 PM
Jesus returning to slaughter everyone who is not a born-again Christian.
Poor peasant was not able to save his on arse, and he will be coming to slaugher 4 billion people!! tongue.gif tongue.gif wankers! tongue.gif
Posted by: samudra_gupta Nov 29 2004, 12:29 AM
Are not religious fanatics every where , every religion and every country ? mad.gif Religious fanatism , the world wishes to see only in Islam so long. Times are changing. If one could just be careful to look around , most of religious leaders are fanatics.That includes all religions.Completely ignorant of the message of the religion. I mean , you see here , a "Devout" follower of xtianity writing stories about Jesus killing billions by magic.And what was Jesus supposed to be ? A person with boundless love , so much as to accept crucification ( as the story goes ) to accept all the sins of the humans . Hypocrites ! thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif It happens in every religion. Thats one reason why we dont see many buddhists in India today.Because , Indians know the message of Buddha , hence did not fall for the stories of Buddha Sangha despite the patronage of a number of dynasties. Hinduism has its own stories too.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 29 2004, 01:04 AM
Re all-religions-are-same logic..
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 29 2004, 01:07 AM
Have heard a lot about Karlheinz Deschner before. He is a german writer who has written a lot on the criminal history of xtianity. Unfortunately I have not been able to find english translations for these - do they exist ????
Posted by: Sudhir Nov 30 2004, 12:35 PM
South Carolina Baptist launch 3-year conversion drive in South Asia COLUMBIA, S.C. Attendees of the 84th annual session of the South Carolina Baptist Convention (SCBC) elected a veteran pastor as president and launched the convention's most aggressive conversions drives yet. The meeting was held Nov. 16-17 at First Baptist Church in Columbia, with 1,117 members. Members of the convention also approved a massive budget of $32,150,000. Sixty percent of the budget is earmarked for ministry within South Carolina, with 40 percent destined for the Southern Baptist Convention. As in the past, much of this money will go to fund American missionaries in foreign places such as Rio de Janeiro, Kenya, Romania and Taiwan. This year the SCBC has taken on previously untargeted region for 2005: South Asia. As one of the world’s largest non-Christian regions, Christian fundamentalists have recently begun heavily concentrating on this impoverished region to win converts. Many have criticized that missionaries extort the poor into converting by offering them material possessions. In 2005, the SCBC's three-year assignment will be South Asia, which includes Bhutan, Nepal, India, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, the Maldives and Pakistan. Sixteen teams of volunteers from South Carolina are lined up to go during the first year of the partnership to South Asia, which, according to mission’s coordinator Debbie McDowell, is "the greatest concentration of lostness in the world." At the convention, members watched a video featuring Southside Baptist Church in Spartanburg, which sent an 11-member missionary team to South Asia to scout the region prior to launch the new conversion drive. In the video, David Blanton, minister of missions at Southside, commanded all South Carolina Baptists to pray that God would "break down the darkness" in South Asia and cause the people there to be "open to the light of Jesus Christ." “Join us in the task of sharing the Good News with South Asia," Blanton said. Carlisle Driggers, the convention's executive director-treasurer, said South Carolina Baptists are making a commitment to people "who need to hear of the love of Jesus Christ." Of the new initiative, he said, "This is kingdom thinking and we dare not miss this opportunity."
Posted by: k.ram Dec 3 2004, 03:24 AM
Bangalore Miracle Show Expected to Draw in 10 Million id=1102018019&type=news
Posted by: k.ram Dec 4 2004, 06:11 AM The Mylapore Institute for Indigenous Studies is an outgrowth of an ongoing research programme that has for its primary focus the CHURCHES OF INDIGENOUS ORIGINS in India. The Institute was conceived to suppliment and facilitate research as an essential part of continuing education. Research has documented the esistence of a little-known, vigorous indigenous Christianity in India. Despite the longevity and vitality of Christianity in the region, South Asia is not well represented in the world of missiological scholarship. What is available is either dated or not comprehensive nor focused enough. Furthermore India and Pakistan are home to the most ancient Christian tradition. Christians in South Asia need greater awarness of their apostolic heritage. omg.gif A recent surge of Christian growth in some regions (e.g. Nepal and North East India) requires documentation and exploration. Ongoing vitality, exhibited in a proliferation of churches of indigenous origin requires objective portrayal. {read - whitewash efforts to be intensified argue.gif } Identification of archival deposits and points of need for collection and preservation of priceless documents is crucial. Demonstration of the historical presence and cultural contributions of Christianity to the region and its integral role in nation building and socio-economic development is vital, particularly in the present context. To this end a one-volume dictionary is proposed with scholarly contributions on Christianity in each of the South Asian countries by Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant writers and editors with expertise in a wide range of disciplines. The Dictionary of South Asian Christianity will be a major, 1000 page, ecumenical reference work. It will serve as a valuable reference tool for the interested layman and scholar alike for many decades to come. Chief Editor Dr. Roger E. Hedlund Editorial Board Dr. Habil. Daniel Jeyaraj Dr. Joshua Kalapati Rev. Dr. Lalsangkima Pachuau Rev. Dr. Rosario Rocha SJ Rev. Dr. Ivan Satyavrata Dr. David Emmanual Singh
Posted by: acharya Dec 8 2004, 07:52 PM
Experts: Men Distort Religion to Justify 'Honour' Killings Wed Dec 8, 8:51 AM ET Add to My Yahoo! World - Reuters By Jan Strupczewski STOCKHOLM (Reuters) - Men all over the world distort the teachings of Islam and Christianity to justify abusing their wives and daughters, leading to thousands of "honor" killings a year for which courts provide virtual impunity, experts say. U.N. estimates show that more than 5,000 women are murdered every year in "honor"-related violence, but the real number could be much higher, said experts at an international conference near Stockholm, which ended Wednesday. Horror stories of women and even girls as young as seven being beheaded, burned to death, maimed, beaten, raped, forced into suicide or mentally abused underscored that patriarchal violence against women pays no heed to religion. In many cases it is rooted in cultural and tribal beliefs. "Islam as a reason for the honor killings is rubbish," Nilofar Bakhtiar, adviser to Pakistan's prime minister on Women's' Development, told Reuters. She blamed such violence in Pakistan on "the feudal tradition, the culture and the tribal system." She said that men found it "very convenient to say that what they don't want to do is against Islam and what they want to do is in the name of Islam." While most cases are reported in Muslim countries, "honor" violence also occurs among Christian families, delegates said. "After we got married, Hell started," a Christian woman from the Middle East, identified only as Maria, said in a video tape. Beaten and raped for questioning her husband's business practices, she fled to Sweden when he threatened to sell her into prostitution. While traditional Islamic Sharia law does impose stricter dress codes on women and stresses their household duties, one Muslim cleric at the conference said the Koran condemned abuse of the weak but its teachings had been distorted over time. "We must educate imams and young people," said Imam Abdal Haqq of the Swedish Islamic Society. "We must free ourselves from these honor killings and the 'Islamophobia' they create." GOD THE FATHER... But some experts believe any male-dominated religion, in which God and his prophets or apostles are male figures, creates conditions for the subordination and abuse of women. Predominantly Catholic Poland, although free from "honor killings," has a problem with violence against women, rooted in the strong influence of the Catholic church on public life, Polish minister for gender equality Magdalena Sroda said. "Catholicism does not directly support or oppose violence against women. But there are indirect links through culture which is strongly based on religion," Sroda told Reuters. "It is a structure based on patriarchal domination of God the Father and the less important role of women can be seen for example in the letters of Saint Paul," she said. Asma Jahangir, U.N. Special Rapporteur on religious freedom, said many courts condoned patriarchal violence by letting the perpetrators get away with "a slap on the wrist." "In 405 documented cases of honor killings in Afghanistan (news - web sites) so far this year only 20 arrests were made," she said. Zorayha Rahim Sobrany, deputy minister for Women's Affairs in Afghanistan, said the concept of women's equality to men was slow to take root, but that progress was being made. "We need time. We must move step by step. If you go too fast, the reaction is that people close themselves," she said. [SIZE=7]
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 10 2004, 02:45 PM
By Ken Camp Managing Editor SAN ANTONIO—Two Baptist University of the Americas students—one from Mexico, the other from Nicaragua—spent the fall semester working with Banjara Gypsies in India. Leaders of the Texas Baptist theological university hope all their students have the opportunity for a similar short-term, cross-cultural missions experience before they graduate, said Javier Elizondo, dean of academic affairs at Baptist University of the Americas. He worked with two former BUA students, Eddie and Macarena Aldape, and their Cooperative Baptist Fellowship colleagues in India, James and Robbi Francovich, to plan the semester-long missions immersion program. As he learned about the Aldapes’ and Francoviches’ work with the Banjara Gypsy people-group in India and their desire to have students serve alongside them for a short-term internship, Elizondo grew intrigued by the possibility of placing BUA students in India for a semester. At a church service among the Christian Banjara Gypsies. “India, Africa and the Arab world are exactly where we’d like to place some of our students for missions service,” he said. That’s true, at least in part, because Hispanics share many physical characteristics with people in that part of the world and can blend in with the general population, he explained. Elizondo had a clear idea of what kind of student he wanted to enlist for the pilot project in India. “I wanted somebody who was bicultural, bilingual and self-motivated,” he said. He also wanted somebody with roots in Latin America, who would not be so overwhelmed by Third World poverty that he would be unable to serve effectively. The idea of placing a student from Catholic-dominated Latin America in a culture permeated by non-Christian religions also captivated Elizondo. “I wanted the students to have the challenging task of reaching a group of people who are not easy to reach,” he said. “In Latin America, there is still a Christian influence. I wanted them to see how to evangelize in an unreached place like India and to see how much distance there is to bridge there, as opposed to bridging the distance from Catholic non-born-again to evangelical born-again.” Elizondo enlisted Juan Acuña, a Californian who was born in Monterrey, Mexico, and Allan Escobar, who lived in Nicaragua until age 16, when he moved to Fort Worth. The students served through the CBF Student.Go program. Francovich served as field supervisor and professor-of-record for the students’ fall semester, and they received credit at BUA for the work they did in India. He directed their studies as they read a book a week, and he provided mentorship for their cross-cultural learning experience. Acuña and Escobar spent the first half of their semester in India with the Francoviches, visiting Banjara Gypsy villages, learning about the people and sharing their faith when given the opportunity. The Texas students experienced some culture shock upon arriving in India. Escobar acknowledged the first challenge he faced on arriving in India was to “see beyond the poverty.” The students learned British English spoken with an Indian accent and Texas English spoken with a Spanish accent bear little resemblance to each other. Slang acceptable to one group could be offensive to a different group, they discovered. Escobar was taken aback when he saw Indian men holding hands and embracing each other closely until he recognized it as a cultural characteristic. Even so, Acuña insisted the greatest surprise for him was not the differences he observed but the similarities. “Indian culture has a lot of similarities with Hispanic culture,” he noted. “Both are very family-oriented.” During the second half of their time in India, the students worked with the Aldapes and focused primarily on youth. They visited clinics, preached in several churches and taught at a conference for youth leaders. At one clinic, Acuña performed a sleight-of-hand illusion to capture the attention of young people who were waiting in line. “Once I grabbed their attention, I was able to share Christ with them,” he recalled. Acuña noted Indian young people in the cities are more westernized than their rural peers, and their curiosity about all things American provided the Texas students an open door to sharing their faith. “They’re interested in talking with people from the United States, and we had several opportunities to share Christ,” he said. He recalled an encounter with two girls in a coffee shop who initially started talking with him about movies. In time, the conversation shifted to a school project one of the girls was researching about the causes of depression among young people. Acuña explained his belief that many young people experience depression because they lack a relationship with God. He gave one of the young women a copy of Philip Yancey’s book, “Disappointment with God.” “She wrote an e-mail to me, and she said she’s reading it,” Acuña said, adding he has continued to stay in e-mail contact with several young people he met in India. Elizondo already has made arrangements for Escobar and Acuña to share their insights with students at BUA in a variety of venues, including a chapel service and several classes. He hopes they will be “the first of many” BUA students who will have similar semester-long missions experiences. “We are really excited about the mission of BUA to provide cross-cultural mission experiences for their students and for the great opportunity to guide students through first-hand experiences among an unreached people group in a Third World country,” Francovich wrote in an e-mail. “Many Latin Americans have responded to the call to missions and are living in our country, and we pray that through this partnership between BUA and CBF, many more Hispanic Americans and Latin American students will be challenged to find their place of service in making disciples of all nations.”
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 11 2004, 03:38 AM
Hindutva or “Hindu nationalism in India is trying to assimilate or eliminate minorities”. Its supporters “want only Hindus in India and their attitude to minorities is either assimilate or be eliminated,” two Christian scholars say.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 13 2004, 12:39 PM
The Inter-religious Council of Russia has denounced a recent “Food of Life” campaign organized by Russia’s Hare Krishna community where members handed out vegetarian sweets to veterans and the disabled in a Moscow district. The council, an affiliate of the World Conference of Religions for Peace, is an independent organization that has pledged to “enrich the age-old traditions of interreligious cooperation,” its site reads. The council’s executive secretary Roman Silantyev, however, has called the Hare Krishna community a “destructive sect” that is offering food under the guise of humanitarian aide, Interfax quoted him as saying. The food, since it is dedicated to “pagan gods”, could “harm the spiritual health of Christians, Muslims, and Jews.” He expressed regret that there were no legislative means to “apprehend such provocations” and called on special labeling of Hare Krishna products, indicating that they were “inappropriate as food for Christians, Muslims, and Jews.” He also called on the Federal Epidemiological Control Center to test its products for traces of cow urine and excrement, since the “sect members” come in contact with these substances “when they wash their idols,” Interfax quoted him as saying. Silantyev stressed that that Hare Krishna’s campaigns have already been denounced by “all traditional spiritual leaders as an especially cynical and prevocational form of proselytizing.”
Posted by: acharya Dec 13 2004, 12:47 PM
Next the Hinduism itself will be anti-national 10 December, 2004 INDIA – HUMAN RIGHTS Hindu nationalism is anti-poor and anti-Dalit, research says by Santosh Digal Bhubaneswar (AsiaNews) – Hindutva or “Hindu nationalism in India is trying to assimilate or eliminate minorities”. Its supporters “want only Hindus in India and their attitude to minorities is either assimilate or be eliminated,” two Christian scholars say. In an joint study titled Globalization, Hindu Nationalism and Adivasis (tribals/aboriginals) of India, Lancy Lobo, a Jesuit priest and director of the Centre for Culture and Development of Vadodara in Gujarat (Western India), and Amit Mitra, an international development consultant based in Delhi, said that the hidden agenda of Hindu nationalists is “to capture power and inaugurate a theocratic society in India.” According to the two researchers, Hindu nationalism is by and large a resurgence of Brahmanism (a version of Hinduism that saw the Brahmin caste emerge as the highest of India’s four caste levels) in which Brahmins but also other upper caste Indians reassert their social ascendancy. Under the constitution of independent India the hierarchical (vertical) stratification of Indian society was in theory made horizontal (by its equality provisions). However, upper caste Indians saw their status, wealth and power diminish as a result of the institutional changes that the constitution introduced. By appealing to Hindu nationalism and demanding the re-conversion of Dalits (formally known as pariahs or untouchables) and Adivasis who converted to Christianity or Islam, the upper castes are trying to reclaim their lost dignity and power. In electoral politics of a democratic society where numbers count, re-hinduisation of Dalits and Adivasis and stopping conversions make sense. Together Dalits (15 per cent) and Adivasis (7 per cent) represent 22 per cent of the total population. Hindu parties need their support to govern. Conversion, on the other hand, cuts into this potential electorate and weakens them. For Lobo and Mitra, Hindu parties exploit Hindu nationalism to divert attention from real issues that are of concern to the more marginalised segments of society like Dalits and Adivasis. In a state like Gujarat, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) came to power by playing up religious emotions and promising anti-conversion legislation (adopted in 2003), not by promoting any political programme. However, poor Indians need help to survive, jobs and an education, not anti-conversion laws. Once in power, the BJP became paranoid about Christians and Christian missionaries even though Christians in Gujarat are a mere 0.42% of the total population. Its administration unleashed a campaign of hate and violence against them. In the 1997-1999 period, 12 churches were burnt, another 14 were vandalised and 17 physical attacks against Christians were perpetrated, not to mention all other kinds of harassment. Hindu nationalists see the conversion of Adivasis as something physically, morally and psychologically evil, an atrocity by the converter on the would-be convert. In doing so, they legitimise any atrocity against the converter and the converted. Dalits, who are victims of discrimination and marginalisation under caste system, convert to Christianity or Islam to find self-respect, dignity and an identity as full human beings. Adivasis, who are also outside the pale of the caste system, herded off to remote hills after their lands and forests were seized by non-Adivasis, also seek dignity and identity in becoming Christian or Muslim. But for Hindu nationalists, anyone trying to help these marginalised groups becomes an enemy. Anyone opening a school for Dalits or Adivasis is accused of seeking converts. Gujarat is sadly known for the inter-ethnic violence that flared up in 2002. The killing of 58 Hindus in the Gujarati town of Godhra was followed by a violent Hindu response that left more than 2,000 Muslims dead, an event that Lobo and Mitra consider a state-sponsored pogrom, a crime directly attributable to the BJP government then in power in the state.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 13 2004, 09:13 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 14 2004, 11:01 AM,13673,501041213-880312,00.html
The bare facts of Xavier's life hold few clues to his continued esteem. Unlike some of his fellow missionaries in Africa or the Americas, he discovered no new wonders of the world. None of the countries he visited was converted root and branch to Christianity. He died without ever realizing his dream of reaching mainland China. And in India, Xavier is infamous as the man who introduced the Inquisition. The visible manifestation of his legacy today is mixed; St. Francis Xavier schools and churches dot his route from southern India to Sri Lanka, Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam and Japan, but so do Xavier furniture warehouses, bus companies and even, on a beach in northern Goa, Xavier's Rum Pub. The one institution he did build himself, St. Paul's College in Old Goa, is now a forgotten ruin long devoured by jungle.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 14 2004, 05:02 PM
User srkrishnan2003 posted this on IC..
Xavier's work and ideas, in his own words: 1. Iconoclasm as an innovative children's activity. "The fruit that is reaped by the baptism of infants, as well as by the instruction of children and others, is quite incredible. These children, I trust heartily, by the grace of God, will be much better than their fathers. They show an ardent love for the Divine law, and an extraordinary zeal for learning our holy religion and imparting it to others. Their hatred for idolatry is marvellous. They get into feuds with the heathen about it, and whenever their own parents practise it, they reproach them and come off to tell me at once. Whenever I hear of any act of idolatrous worship, I go to the place with a large band of these children, who very soon load the devil with a greater amount of insult and abuse than he has lately received of honor and worship from their parents, relations, and acquaintances. The children run at the idols, upset them, dash them down, break them to pieces, spit on them, trample on them, kick them about, and in short heap on them every possible outrage." 2. Disease is very useful for "god's great plan." "To make my tale short, God was moved by the faith and piety of these children and of the others, and restored to a great number of sick persons health both of body and soul. How good He was to them! He made the very disease of their bodies the occasion of calling them to salvation, and drew them to the Christian faith almost by force!" 3. Pioneer of anti-Brahminism. "We have in these parts a class of men among the pagans who are called Brahmins. They keep up the worship of the gods, the superstitious rites of religion, frequenting the temples and taking care of the idols. They are as perverse and wicked a set as can anywhere be found, and I always apply to them the words of holy David, "from an unholy race and a wicked and crafty man deliver me, O Lord." They are liars and cheats to the very backbone." 4. Conversion magically makes a person (even a brahmin) "virtuous." "The heathen inhabitants of the country are commonly ignorant of letters, but by no means ignorant of wickedness. All the time I have been here in this country I have only converted one Brahmin, a virtuous young man, who has now undertaken to teach the Catechism to children." 5. A summary of "true Christianity" (Hindu adepts in "true Christianity" please note). "He made the promise, and then I carefully explained to him those words of Jesus Christ in which our religion is summed up: "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved." 6. Importance of Hell in Christian doctrine. "One of the things that most of all pains and torments these Japanese is, that we teach them that the prison of hell is irrevocably shut, so that there is no egress therefrom. For they grieve over the fate of their departed children, of their parents and relatives, and they often show their grief by their tears. So they ask us if there is any hope, any way to free them by prayer from that eternal misery, and I am obliged to answer that there is absolutely none. Their grief at this affects and torments them wonderfully; they almost pine away with sorrow. But there is this good thing about their trouble---it makes one hope that they will all be the more laborious for their own salvation, lest they like their forefathers, should be condemned to everlasting punishment. They often ask if God cannot take their fathers out of hell, and why their punishment must never have an end. We gave them a satisfactory answer, but they did not cease to grieve over the misfortune of their relatives; and I can hardly restrain my tears sometimes at seeing men so dear to my heart suffer such intense pain about a thing which is already done with and can never be undone."
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 14 2004, 11:31 PM
More from srkrishnan saar from IC..
Xavier's "progress reports" he periodically wrote to the Society of Jesus, his parent organization. Indians should be especially happy to read the following letter he wrote to Ignatius Loyola. "In the first place, the whole race of the Indians, as far as I have been able to see, is very barbarous; and it does not like to listen to anything that is not agreeable to its own manners and customs, which, as I say, are barbarous. It troubles itself very little to learn anything about divine things and things which concern salvation. Most of the Indians are of vicious disposition, and are adverse to virtue. Their instability, levity, and inconstancy of mind are incredible; they have hardly any honesty, so inveterate are their habits of sin and cheating. We have hard work here, both in keeping the Christians up to the mark and in converting the heathen. And, as we are your children, it is fair that on this account you should take great care of us and help us continually by your prayers to God."
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 15 2004, 03:09 PM Must read !!!! I cant believe foolish hindus actually lined up to worship this b@stard. mad.gif Dr B R Ambedkar..
“The entry of the Catholic Church in the field of spread of Christianity in India began in the year 1541 with the arrival of Francis Xavier. He was the first missionary of the new society of Jesus formed to support the authority of the Pope. The Syrian Christians shrank with dismay from the defiling touch of the Roman Catholics of Portugal and proclaimed themselves Christians and not idolaters. The other is that the Malabar Christians had never been subject to Roman supremacy and never subscribed to the Roman doctrine." “The inquisitors of Goa discovered that they were heretics and like a wolf on the fold, down came the delegates of the Pope upon the Syrian Churches. Don Alexis de Menzes was appointed Archbishop of Goa. It was his mission less to make new converts than to reduce old ones to subjection; and he flung himself into (the) work of persecution with an amount of zeal and heroism that must have greatly endeared him to Rome. Moving down to the South, with an imposing military force, he summoned the Syrian Churches to submit themselves to his authority. “Fraud took the place of violence; money took place of arms. He bribed those whom he could not bully, and appealed to the imaginations of men when he could not work upon their fears. The persecutions of Menzes were very grievous for he separated priests from their wives; excommunicated on trifling grounds, members of the Churches; and destroyed old Syriac records which contained proofs of the early purity of faith.”
Fracis Xavier the "saint" demands inquisition...
The Inquisition made its way to India under the Portuguese Jesuit, St. Francis Xavier in 1545. The first demand for the establishment of the Inquisition in Goa was made by St. Francis Xavier. In a letter addressed from Amboina (Moluccas) to D. Joao III, King of Portugal, on May 16, 1545, he wrote: “The second necessity for the Christians is that your majesty establish the Holy Inquisition, because there are many who live according to the Jewish law, and according to the Mohammedan sect, without fear of God or shame of the world. And since there are many who are spread all over the fortresses, there is the need of the Holy Inquisition, and of many preachers. Your majesty should provide such necessary things for your loyal and faithful subjects in India.”
Hindus and Syrian Xtians and jews , all experinced the sainthood of these "saints".
The eminent Jesuit historian, Fr. Francisco de Souza, describes in the following passage an incident which served as the immediate cause for the introduction of the Inquisition in Goa: “Whilst in the island of Goa, heated efforts were made to destroy Hinduism, father Provincial Gonslavo da Silveira and bishop Belchior Carneiro were moving about in Cochin persecuting the insidious Judaism. These priests came to know how in that city were living some descendants of the Israelite people, rich and possessing much, but infected with Judaism…” Francois Pyrad, a French traveler, was in Goa during the period of July 1608 to January 1610. In his account of his travels he gives the following information of the Inquisition in Goa: “The Inquisition consists of two fathers, who are held in great dignity and respect; but the one is much greater man than the other and is called Inquisitor Major. Their procedure is much more severe than in Portugal; they often burn Jews, whom the Portuguese call Christianos noeuous, that is to say, ‘New Christians.’ It came into existence in 1560. The Jesuit historian Father Francisco de Souza tells us that the goal of the Inquisition in India was to destroy Hinduism and also persecute Indian Jews who had lived peacefully with the Hindus for centuries. Francois Pyrad, a Frenchman who lived in Goa from 1608-1610, tells us that the number of victims persecuted was very large. We have eyewitness accounts telling us that it was far worse than in Europe. J C Barreto Miranda, a Goanese historian, in his book Quadros Historicas de Goa p.145, wrote of the Inquisitors sent by the Pope: “The cruelties which in the name of the religion of peace and love this tribunal practiced in Europe, were carried to even greater excesses in India, where the Inquisitors, surrounded by luxuries which could stand comparison with the regal magnificence of the great potentates of Asia, saw with pride the Archbishop as well as the viceroy submitted to their power. Every word of theirs was a sentence of death and at their slightest nod were removed to terror the vast populations spread over the Asiatic regions, whose lives fluctuated in their hands, and who, on the most frivolous pretext could be clapped for all time in the deepest dungeon or strangled or offered as food for the flames of the pyre.”
As to how much did these padres tried to understand the natives ?
Fr. James Brodrick, well known biographer of St. Xavier and himself a Jesuit wrote in his book, Saint Francis Xavier p. 201 footnote, about the limitations of the understanding and outlook of St. Xavier: “St. Francis Xavier’s knowledge of Hinduism, was, if possible, even less adequate than his few notions of Mohammedanism. Though the Portuguese had been in India for over forty years, none of them appears to have made the slightest attempt to understand the venerable civilization, so much more ancient than their own, on which they had violently intruded.”
And the EVIL BRAHMINS ?? Xavier has this to say about brahmins..
Francis Xavier hostility towards the heathen (Brahmin) priesthood: “These are the most perverse people in the world….they never tell the truth, but think of nothing but how to tell subtle lies and to deceive the simple and ignorant people, telling them that the idols demand certain offerings, and these are simply the things that the Brahmans themselves invent, and of which they stand in need in order to maintain their wives and children and houses…They threaten the people that, if they do not bring the offerings, the gods will kill them, or cause them to fall sick, or send demons to their houses, and through the fear that the idols will do them harm, the poor simple people do exactly as the Brahmans tell them…If there were no Brahmans in the area, all the Hindus would accept conversion to our faith."
And how did this 'peaceful' religion spread in goa ?
The Hindus living within the Portuguese dominion, were forbidden to observe their ancestral rites and customs, even behind closed doors, and subjected to many other discriminatory laws. The Inquisition took a prominent part in enforcing these measures and the resulting harassment was so great that many of the Hindus also emigrated to neighboring territories. Various measures were taken by the Portuguese rulers in Goa with the object of converting the natives to Christianity. Firstly, there were those measures to make it difficult for the natives to continue to retain their old religion. The temples and shrines of the Hindus were destroyed and they were forbidden to erect or maintain new ones even outside the Portuguese territories; practice of Hindu rites and ceremonies such as the marriage ceremony, the ceremony of wearing the sacred thread, ceremony performed at the birth of a child, was banned; priests and teachers of Hindus were banished; those who remained were deprived of their means of subsistence and ancestral rights in village communities; they were also subjected to various humiliation, indignities and disabilities; orphan children of the Hindus were snatched away from the families for being baptized; and men and women were compelled to listen to the preaching of Christian doctrine. In 1560, the Viceroy D. Constantino de Braganza, ordered a large number of Brahmins of the island of Goa. The result of such orders was that the Hindus migrated to the neighboring lands en masse. The Hindus of Salsette approached the Viceroy and clamored against this order but their appeals fell on deaf ears. They thereupon returned home “and placing in carriages the idols, whose temples were threatened with ruin, they moved to the other side where there were no Portuguese to persecute them.” The image of Shri Mangesh was probably moved from Cortalim (earlier known as Kushasthali) at this time in 1566. (The temple was dedicated to Lord Shiva). The Jesuit historian Francisco de Souza writes that: “The Church of Cortalim is erected in the same site, where formerly the idol of Mangesh was worshipped.” Other measures were incentives for convesion to Christianity, such as jobs, altering the laws of inheritance in favor of those who changed their religion.
About the torture that accompanied the inquisition..
Use of Torture by Inquisition Torture was used freely and with all severity by the Inquisition in Goa may be inferred from the following passage in Dr. C Dellon’s in the book, Relation de l’Inquisition de Goa: “During the month of November and December, I every morning heard the cries of those whom the torture was administered, and which was inflicted so severely, that I have seen many persons of both sexes who have been crippled by it, and amongst others, the first companion allotted to me in my prison.” Torture was used by the Inquisition as an expedient to obtain a confession where the evidence against the accused was incomplete, defective or conflicting. During the torture the only words to be addressed to the accused were “Tell the truth.” The notary faithfully recorded all that passed, even to the shrieks of the victim, his despairing ejaculations and his piteous appeals for mercy or to be put to death, nor would it be easy to conceive anything more fitted to excite the deepest compassion than these cold-blooded matter of fact reports. The Manual of Regulations provided that ordinarily the ‘torture of pole’ (pulleys) should be administered but where the physician or surgeon feels that on account of weakness or indisposition the accused could not stand it, ‘the torture of potro; may be given. The Inquisition at different times and places made use of a variety of other forms of torture also. Referring to the forms of torture used by the Inquisition, E T Whittington, writes as follows: “As to the torture itself, it combined all that the ferocity of savages and the ingenuity of civilized man had till then invented. Besides the ordinary rack, thumb-screws, and leg crushers or Spanish boots, there were spiked wheels over which the victims were drawn with weights on their feet; boiling oil was poured over their legs, burning sulphur dropped on their bodies, and lighted candles held beneath their armpits.” Alexandre Herculano, a famous writer of the 19th century, mentioned in his “Fragment about the Inquisition”: “...The terrors inflicted on pregnant women made them abort....Neither the beauty or decorousness of the flower of youth, nor the old age, so worthy of compassion in a woman, exempted the weaker sex from the brutal ferocity of the supposed defenders of the religion....” “...There were days when seven or eight were submitted to torture. These scenes were reserved for the inquisitors after dinner. It was a post-prandial entertainment. Many a time during those acts, the inquisitors compared notes in the appreciation of the beauty of the human form. While the unlucky damsel twisted in the intolerable pains of torture, or fainted in the intensity of the agony, one inquisitor applauded the angelic touches of her face, another the brightness of her eyes, another, the volluptuous contours of her breast, another the shape of her hands. In this conjuncture, men of blood transformed themselves into real artists !!” (source: History of the Origin and Establishment of the Inquisition in in Portugal 1926 - By Alexandre Herculano). Scholars are generally agreed that the Inquisition of Goa had earned “a sinister renown as the most pitiless in Christendom.” The story of the Inquisition in Goa is a dismal record of callousness and cruelty, tyranny and injustice, espionage and blackmail, avarice and corruption, repression of thought and culture and promotion of obscurantism.
St. Francis Xavier wrote from Cochin on 20 Jan. 1548 to King John III of Portugal, " You must declare as plainly as possible ......that the only way of escaping your wrath and obtaining your favor is to make as many Christians as possible in the countries over which they rule.' (source" Macnicol, The Living Religions of India 1934 p. 268. ) Vasco da Gama told the first Indians he met on the Malabar coast that he came to seek "Christians and spices."
There is more at the URL. Please read..
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 16 2004, 07:24 PM
Everybody remembers Mother Teresa as a living saint. Mother T was a Catholic nun who helped the destitute and homeless of Calcutta, and who became an international emissary of peace and charity after receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979. But nobody seems to remember the crazy things M.T. said about abortion, contraception, and divorce. Or her endless self-aggrandizing through exaggeration and lies. Or the various brutal dictators and other sleazeballs she hung out with. Or especially what happened to all those financial donations (hundreds of millions of dollars) which never seemed to get spent on anything. At least they weren't spent on food, medicine, or housing for the poor. Mother Teresa was born in Macedonia in 1910. Her given name was Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu. As a girl she decided to become a missionary, and at age 18 left home to join a convent in Calcutta. She taught at St. Mary's High School until 1948, when she received permission to leave her order and embark on her life's mission of helping the poor. In 1950, she founded The Missionaries of Charity, a religious order dedicated to caring for the indigent residents of Calcutta. In time, the little charity blossomed into a reasonably well-funded endeavor. So far, so good. Then some guy from the BBC shows up in 1969 and points a movie camera at Mother T. The result is the documentary Something Beautiful for God. The hagiography instantly confers celebrity status on its unknown subject. And the film is followed by a book of the same name. Suddenly, Mother Teresa had become a household name. And then something happened. In December 1971, India and Pakistan fought a bloody 15-day war, resulting in the creation of Bangladesh. In the aftermath, horrific stories of war crimes abounded. The Pakistanis had perpetrated ruthless genocide against the local Hindu population. They had committed arson, looting, and wanton killing as part of an overall effort to exterminate the Hindus. And more than 450,000 women had been systematically gangraped by Pakistani soldiers. Thousands were abducted for sex slaves and held captive in the barracks. They were often mutilated, and sometimes raped until they died. One account described an eight year old girl whose vagina was slit open because it could not accomodate the men's genitalia. She too was raped until she died. These stories prompted Mother Teresa to come forward. In the aftermath of the war, thousands of the rape victims were now pregnant. Mother Teresa made public appeals for the women to keep their unborn babies, and not abort them. She offered no condolences for the dead women, no sympathy for the surviving victims, and not a word about the soldiers. Her sole interest in the matter was preventing abortions. Mother T had a lifelong obsession with abortion. It was her central issue. She was fundamentally opposed to it, regardless of circumstances. She was against abortion in all cases, even in the case of rape, incest, or risk to the woman's health. In her acceptance speech for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976, she made her stance clear: "Abortion is the worst evil, and the greatest enemy of peace ... Because if a mother can kill her own child, what will prevent us from killing ourselves or one another? Nothing." In 1993 she was asked about a case in Ireland about a 14-year-old rape victim. Mother T remarked: "Abortion can never be necessary because it is pure killing." Needless to say, M.T. was equally opposed to contraception in all forms. But her ideals always seemed to take a back seat around her friends, the dictators. In 1975, Indira Ghandi imposed martial law in India. During the two year "state of emergency" she suspended the constitution, imposed censorship on the news media, and arrested her political enemies. Indira's son Sanjay spearheaded an effort in population control for the poor, wherein they were rounded up and forcibly sterilized. Despite her lifelong opposition to contraception and presumptive support for human rights, Mother Teresa chose to embrace the new order and issued a public statement lauding the government's efforts. The western press was shocked. Mother T drew wide criticism for her endorsement, even from the Catholic press. But she never withdrew her comments. And it didn't stop there. In 1981, she flew to Haiti to accept the Legion d'Honneur from Jean-Claude "Baby Doc" Duvalier. In return, she declared that the Duvaliers loved their poor, and that their love was reciprocated. (Shortly thereafter, the Duvaliers were forced to flee Haiti and live out their days in exile.) In 1989, Mother Teresa traveled back to Albania to pay respects to Enver Hoxha, one of the most repressive rulers of the 20th century. She laid a wreath at his grave and drew wide criticism for it. She had other questionable supporters as well. Charles Keating, who stole in excess of $252 million in the Savings and Loan scandal of the 1980s, donated $1.25 million of his loot to Mother Teresa. When he was eventually caught, M.T. interceded on his behalf and wrote a letter to the court urging leniency. When the district attorney wrote back informing her that the money she had received was stolen money, she made no attempt to reply. She also accepted money from the embezzler Robert Maxwell, who stole £450 million from his employees' pension funds (and committed suicide rather than face Scotland Yard). In fact, the Missionaries of Charity probably garner annual donations in excess of $100 million worldwide. (It's only "probably" because her organization patently refuses to release their financials.) Where does all that money go? It certainly doesn't go into health care for her wards. People get the misconception that her facilities operate as hospices or medical clinics. This is not so. Those facilities are devoted to giving people someplace to lay down and die. M.T. herself named them "Houses of the Dying." Over the years, her organization has grown to support a worldwide network of schools and soup kitchens, but these are rather modest affairs and require very little cash to maintain. In fact, one former staffer of the New York branch revealed that although there was more than $50 million sitting in the bank, the local subsidiary continued to appeal to the public for more donations. There is no telling how much money resides in all their other accounts around the world. Of course, when she required her own medical care, only the best would do. In public, she declined a 1984 offer for free cataract surgery from the St Francis Medical Center, worth $5,000. But the following year, she quietly received the same treatment at St. Vincent's Hospital in New York. Not to mention visits to the Scripps Clinic and the Gemelli Hospital, and numerous visits for cardiac care at the Birla Heart Institute in Calcutta. At some point she got a pacemaker installed. And let's not forget that exorcism. During one of her hospitalizations in Calcutta, the local archbishop noticed that Mother T had a habit of fitfully pulling out her EKG sensors at night. He told her that she "might be under the attack of the evil one" and offered to arrange an exorcism. She agreed. After it was over, the archbishop says M.T. "slept like a baby." From which one could reasonably conclude that Satan had indeed been working to possess her. In the April 1996 issue of Ladies Home Journal M.T. disclosed that she wished to finish her life in one of her own Houses of the Dying, just like those poor people she attended to. But when she died the following year, she was in her private bedroom, surrounded by modern cardiac machinery.
Posted by: k.ram Dec 17 2004, 04:44 AM
BUA students spent fall in India mission service
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 19 2004, 12:25 AM
Gladly posting in full.. Spread the good word..
AGARTALA, DHNS: With religious conversions growing in number among the poor Tripura tribals, Jamatia Hoda, the apex body of the community has imposed a ban on religious conversions and has warned of punishments under the customary law. Jamatia is the biggest and oldest tribal community in the state and believes that Hindu philosophy has been facing the problem of religious conversions during the past few years. Hoda chief, Ashwathama Jamatia, stated that the situation was serious and alleged that missionaries were trying to convert the tribals into Christianity taking advantage of their poverty. The recent 414th conference of Hoda imposed fresh restrictions on conversions and asked the tribals to strictly adhere to Hindu values and disciplines. The community leaders have imposed punishments in community courts by customary law for any act against Hindu values and any connection with anti-national outfits. Customary law is an age-old practice of the tribal communities in the northeast and has been the main weapon used to control the mostly illiterate people. Jamatia Hoda — has been in existence for 414 years but came to the limelight in 1999 by taking a stand against violence when insurgency was at its height. However, they kept a provision for readmission that required an apology in public. The conference also imposed a series of restrictions to discipline society, which included restrictions on under-age marriages. It has also imposed restrictions on any transaction of dowry or any illicit relationship with outlawed outfits. Such activities would attract a heavy fine as per the customary laws of the society while a second marriage if the first wife is alive also would attract a similar punishment.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 20 2004, 07:22 PM
Posted by: acharya Dec 20 2004, 08:41 PM
Evangelism is waged in earnest in a large swath of the underdeveloped world spanning from North Africa to East Asia. Missionary strategists call this region the "Unreached Bloc" or the "Last frontier."[1] In the rural backwaters and isolated tribal hamlets of countries like India, missionaries routinely peddle the fruits of generosity--food and medicine--as "inducements" for conversion to Christianity. When these allurements fail, more-aggressive means may be employed, not barring fraud and intimidation. As we shall see below, in India at least, "harvesting" souls has become an end that justifies almost any means. This subordination of humanitarian service to proselytizing is a matter of theology--evangelical Christians believe they hold a divine mandate, their "Great Commission" from God, to spread their creed. But it is also a matter of policy. During his 1998 visit to India, for example, Pope John Paul II bluntly stated that the Christianization of Asia is "an absolute priority" for the Catholic Church in the new millennium. He openly likened the Vatican agenda for that region to its conquest of the Americas in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. His language, says Sanal Edamaruku, founder of New Delhi-based Rationalist International, leaves little room for interpretation, even among secular and progressive-minded Indian citizens. "It is, in fact, not the fantasy of [Hindu nationalists]," he states, "but hard reality ... nothing less than the conversion of ... the Hindus of the world is targeted."[2] The church's "soldiers" in the field get the message. As a Mumbai (formerly Bombay)-based missionary whom we shall call Paul attests (he asked that his real name be withheld), he and his colleagues in India have been unequivocally instructed by their superiors to "work extra hard in the conversion process and choose any means possible to convert these heathens." With such marching orders, earthly consequences can be cavalierly disregarded. "It's not how we convert that matters," Paul insists. "Conversion is what counts."[3] In India, considered one of the richest "harvest grounds" in the Unreached Bloc, the methods employed by missionaries like Paul have stirred seething bitterness and resentment among the "heathen" public. Perhaps no mission tactic galls more bitterly than the intentional targeting of any society's most vulnerable members--its children. Missionaries have long capitalized on the leverage they exercise over India's young through thousands of church-run hospitals, schools, and orphanages. In a 1923 report to Rome gleefully titled "The Spiritual Advantages of Famine and Cholera," the Archdiocese of Pondicherry related how a famine had "wrought miracles" in a local hospital where "baptismal water flows in streams, and starving little tots fly in masses to heaven." A hospital is a "ready-made congregation," the report contended, where there is "no need to go into the ... hedges and compel them to 'come in.'" Thanks to infection, they "send each other."[4] Thirty years later, a government inquiry exposed the wile by which the baptismal water had been made to follow so easily. Catholic priests had been instructed to learn something of medicine in order to gain access to the bedsides of sick Hindu (and Muslim) children. There, on the pretext of administering medicine, the priests secretly baptized the children before they died.[5] What is troubling are the reports that this practice continues today, with formulas of baptism whispered and holy water sprinkled surreptitiously over non-Christian patients even in the hospices of such well-known orders as the Missionaries of Charity.[6] Christian missionary schools, too, remain ubiquitous in modern India. Many Hindu families believe that missionary schools offer a good education; for others, a church-run school is their only, or only affordable, option. Nonetheless, these schools can abuse parents' trust by trolling the classroom for converts. In one highly-publicized 1998 case, the I. P. Mission Girls' School in the town of Rajkot, Gujurat state, issued New Testaments to Hindu schoolgirls and pressured them to sign declarations of Christian faith. The declaration, printed on the last page of each New Testament volume, stated that each signatory was a "sinner" and that she had accepted the Lord Jesus as her "personal savior."[7] Naturally, parents were outraged. Not only was this "conversion" performed without their consent--illegal in India when minors are involved--but several girls reported that school staff had intimidated them into signing the declaration. Parents and other Hindus marched to the school to protest, and a wave of publicity quickly mounted. Embarrassed, the school recalled the New Testaments and published an apology with the promise that "such literature" would not be distributed again.[8] Along with the apology, the school accurately denied a rumor alleging that protesting parents had burned copies of the Bible during their demonstration. Nevertheless, this rumor circulated wildly in the India's English-language press and was later repeated uncritically by Western media, adding fuel to a propaganda campaign that claimed that Christians in India faced regular persecution from Hindu fundamentalists. Since the campaign began, the money to missions in India has increased considerably--demonstrating that prosecution of the Great Commission requires more than Bibles and baptismal water. John Joseph, a Christian member of the National Minority Commission charged with investigating reported cases of persecution, complained that most of the cases that hit national and international headlines in recent years were nothing but "colorful lies, half-truths or highly exaggerated stories unleashed by Indian Christian NGOs and missionary groups to mobilize Christian donor agencies to open their wallets."[9] Even when the wallets are open, overseas ministries feel strong pressure to pay at least part of their own way. Some missionaries have become quite inventive fundraisers; others have sought revenue in less than ethical ways, as recent exposures of child-adoption rackets in missionary orphanages have revealed. Like parochial schools, church-run orphanages have long been fixtures of Christian evangelism in India. Legally wards of the orphanage, the children are usually raised as Christians, and it is not uncommon for those who do not find homes to adopt the church as their surrogate family and become priests or nuns when they mature. This swells the ranks of native clergy, a welcome bonus given the dearth of seminary admissions in the West. Distasteful as this may be to many Hindus, an Indian orphanage is within its rights to raise its wards as it sees fit. Still, those rights do not extend to fraud. But fraud is what twenty-five families encountered in 2001 in Arunachal Pradesh, a mountainous state in India's northeast.
Posted by: acharya Dec 20 2004, 08:43 PM
In the time of Duarte Nunes, support of the Portuguese military allowed the Jesuits to have Hindus forcibly seized and their lips smeared with pieces of beef, 'polluting' them as Hindus and thus making Christianity their only option for salvation.[14] Such blatancy is not possible today. Instead, the violence of others can be used as a threat. The tribal village of New Tupi lies in a deep, forested valley in the northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh. It also borders the district of Nagaland, where a guerilla war between Naga separatists and the Indian government has ground on for years. A Protestant missionary started a primary school in New Tupi and actively evangelized there for a number of years. Response to his ministry was lukewarm, however, and villagers report that their pastor was feeling pressure to move on to greener "unreached" pastures. Failing to uproot the people from their traditional Vaishnavite faith (a monotheistic branch of Hinduism) apparently became a prestige issue with him, so as a last resort he played what could be called his "trump card." The pastor of New Tupi began preaching a new sermon. According to villagers, he told them to "get converted within one and a half months," or else "everybody will be in trouble." In his warning he allegedly invoked the name of the National Socialist Council of Nagaland, or NSCN, the gun-toting insurgents in nearby Nagaland who, as locals know well, indulge in kidnapping and extortion. The people of New Tupi clearly got the pastor's message: Convert to Christianity now, or terrorists may soon arrive at your doorstep.[15] Sadly, this is not solely the behavior of a few renegade clergy. Displaying the "neurosis of the converted," as V. S. Naipaul terms it, many ex-Hindu converts seek to demonstrate their faithfulness to their new creed by affecting open hostility toward the faith they abandoned. This hostility is usually expressed through contemptuous labeling: calling Hindus "heathens" and Hinduism "demonic" or "evil." Too often, contempt manifests as physical aggression: disrupting Hindu festivals, harassing recalcitrant family members or neighbors, and desecrating Hindu temples and relics. Tension between converted tribals and their Hindu neighbors had gained national press coverage in Dangs, a district in Gujurat state. The conflict grew so intense that villages and even families were being rent apart. In 1999, India's National Human Rights Commission convened a special investigation into the conflict. Some of the most damning testimony that investigation heard was given by Ghelubhai Nayak, a respected social scientist and disciple of Gandhi, who has worked in tribal welfare in Dangs for over fifty years. In his testimony, Nayak said that the conflict in Dangs was rooted in the work of the Christian missionaries. In the preceding three years, Nayak stated, there had been at least fifteen instances in which Christian converts, "under the influence of their preachers," desecrated idols of the Hindu saint Hanuman, who has been venerated by the Dangs tribals for generations. In one incident, he said, the converts urinated on a statue of Hanuman, in another they "crushed Hanuman's idol to pieces and threw it away in the river." In addition to the desecration, Nayak testified, converts had raised the ire of their Hindu neighbors by repeatedly publicly denouncing Hindu saints as shaitans, or "Satans." This was done, again "under the influence of their preachers." The native clergy, it seems, where also ex-Hindus afflicted with the Naipaulian "neurosis."[16]
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 20 2004, 10:16 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 21 2004, 12:22 PM
User Murli posted this link on IC.. Why do judeo-xtian societies kill pregnant women ? Is it the culture ? Fair question methinks..
Posted by: Krishna Dec 21 2004, 02:10 PM
In New Jersey, the trouble was not over whether to give birth but how to raise the twins that Marlyn Hassan, 29, a bank manager, was expecting. Her husband insisted that she convert to Islam before the babies were born. She was Hindu and "wanted her children to know both religions," her cousin said. He stabbed her to death in their home, then killed her sister and mother.
Posted by: k.ram Dec 26 2004, 06:25 PM
Anti-Christian pamphlets dampen celebrations The pamphlets accuse Christians of forcibly converting Hindus and tribals in South Gujarat dists Anand ST Das Indian Express/Ahmedabad Friday , December 24, 2004 Ahmedabad, December 23: Incendiary pamphlets and booklets circulated in many parts of the State over the last 10 days are forcing Christians to keep Christmas preparations on a low key. The pamphlets, full of anti-Christian rhetoric and misquotes from the Bible, charge Christians with forcible conversion of poor Hindus and tribals in South Gujarat districts of Dangs, Surat, Navsari and Valsad. Similar pamphlets were distributed in these districts in the past also. Police in the tribal-dominated Dangs district headquarters town of Ahwa arrested a man allegedly working for an organisation affiliated to the Vishwa Hindu Parisad (VHP) on December 18 when he was found distributing such pamphlets. “We booked one Prashant Borse under Sections 153 A and 295 A of the IPC. We’re looking for others,” said Dangs Superintendent of Police V Chandrashekhar. Borse, a grocer and associate of Hindu Jagaran Manch (HJM)’s Dangs district president Janubhai A Pawar, was released on bail the next day. Ramubhai Mulubhai Chaurya, a farmer and tribal Christan in Koilipada village of Dangs said local VHP, RSS and HJM activists had been distributing pamphlets since last week. “They hand out these pamphlets to everyone on the streets and in remote villages and say: ‘Look what these Christians have been doing here.’ This has dampened the Christmas spirit,” he said. f*(k.gif Khalpabhai J Chaudhary, a Christian in Borigamtha village, said: “After the pamphlets surfaced, we’re afraid if we can move freely on Christmas day. We’ve decided to keep the lights and other decorations as low as possible.” Father Cedric Prakash, a Jesuit priest and director of an Ahmedabad-based NGO working for human rights, said several pamphlets with “numerous outrageous misquotes” from the Bible were being openly distributed in several districts of Gujarat for nearly a month. “During my recent visit to Vyara and other places in South Gujarat, I found a vicious propaganda like the one preceding the attacks on Christian places of worship had started. The government has remained largely inattentive to these incidents, saying there would be no communal disharmony,” said Prakash. There’re also booklets in Hindi and Marathi purpotedly seeking to show how Christians were converting Hindus in districts bordering Maharashtra. The booklets bear the name of their publisher, Bharat Jagriti Morcho, an Ahmedabad-based organisation. Inquiries to a telephone number to its office weren’t replied. All-India Christian Council (AICC) joint secretary Samson Christian, who filed petitions in the Gujarat High Court four times in previous years seeking protection during Christmas celebrations, said: “We’ve been assured by officials that they’d ensure peaceful celebration this time. We hope they keep their word.” The Adivasi Sanskriti Jatan Samiti (AJSS), a relatively new outfit headed by Janubhai Pawar, has announced organising the “Dutt Jayanti and Pran Pratistha Mahotsav” at Naldadev in Dangs on Saturday. An “Akhand Harinam Saptah” is being organised by another reportedly VHP-affiliated organisation at Salher village in Maharastra’s Nasik district on Gujarat border on Saturday and Sunday. State Home Secretary K Nityanandam said there would be no trouble anywhere in the State during Christmas. “I don’t think there’ll be any trouble, but we’re prepared for any eventualities,” he said. Surat Range IG Rakesh Asthana said security had been beefed up in all the four districts. “We’ve beefed up security but we can’t deny permission to Hindu organisations from observing their pre-scheduled ceremonies,” said Asthana. Surat and Dangs have got two companies of SRP each while Navsari and Valsad one each, he said. “Extra local police and home guard have been provided to these districts. There’ll also be round-the-clock patrolling and strategic deployment of security forces,” he said. According to sources, a large gathering of Hindus is taking place at Vansda in Navsari district to observe “Vishal Hindu Mela” on Friday and Saturday. “Guru Dattatreya’s birth anniversary’ll be observed across South Gujarat on December 25. Why should we be denied permission?” asked Surat VHP general secretary Vimal Unadkat.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 27 2004, 05:56 PM
Posted by: k.ram Dec 28 2004, 05:49 AM
xposted --------- Tsunami and Soul Harvesting Christian missionaries are going to take advantage of the situation and strike gold. They are the first ones who announced help and aid for the victims who were rendered homeless by the disaster. Three charities from Britain called "World Vision", "Save the children" and "Christian Aid" are flying relief workers to India and Sri Lanka to help victims and sending money.
Posted by: k.ram Dec 28 2004, 02:41 PM
F*&^% Vultures!!!!!!!! VIRGINIA, USA, December 28, 2004: The Christian website,, published a long story about Christian relief efforts following the tsunami ("source"). While the Christian charity exhibited by the rapid response of Christian organizations is admirable, the ulterior motives of conversion expressed by some are disturbing: Some excerpts: ...."Doctor Ajith Fernando, who is considered by some to be the "Billy Graham of Sri Lanka,' heads up the Youth for Christ (YFC) office there. A long-time friend and partner of NDI, he wrote to Williams from Sri Lanka: 'What a sad day this has been! We keep hearing of more and more friends and loved ones of friends who have died or lost much of their belongings. The death toll for Sri Lanka alone is over 10,000 and keeps rising. We have prayed and wept for our nation for many years. The most urgent of my prayers has always been that my people would turn to Jesus. I pray that this terrible, terrible tragedy might be used by God to break through into the lives of many of our people.' " ...."In the wake of this disaster, Gospel For Asia's 1.5 million-member Believers Church in India is rallying support and deploying its leadership and members to minister to those suffering both physically and spiritually. 'In times like these, we know that God opens the hearts of those who suffer, and we pray that as our workers demonstrate God's love to them, many of them will come to know for the first time that real security comes only through Him,' Gospel For Asia president K.P. Yohannon said. He add, 'We ask that our brothers and sisters in the West take the time today to pray for these millions of victims, that they will feel God's presence and grace in a special way.' "
Posted by: k.ram Jan 4 2005, 03:18 PM LEAD Forward transforms itself into relief effort By Tatiana Zarnowski, January 2, 2005 An organization founded in Carlisle to develop India's untouchables, women and children transformed itself almost overnight into a relief organization after a tsunami a week ago devastated Asian coastlines in the Indian Ocean. LEAD Forward, founded by St. Patrick's Catholic Church in Carlisle, is taking stock of the dead and missing in Tamil Nadu on the east coast of India, the region in that country hit hardest by the disaster. People's main emotions right now are fear and shock, says Phil Mock, who has traveled to Tamil Nadu five times in the last six years to work with the Dalit or "untouchables." They fear another tsunami, Mock adds, noting reports circulating that another devastating wave could be on its way. Still, he says people probably are returning to their home areas even though thousands mud-walled, thatched-roof homes were swept away in Sunday's disaster. Mock says India's president of LEAD Forward has catalogued the dead and missing in a district of Tamil Nadu with 40 miles of coast in detail, right down to the number of fishing nets that have gone astray. The loss of family members has hit the village people in Tamil Nadu hardest, Mock says. Loss of livelihood — people who fish for a living have lost their boats — and the lack of food also need immediate attention, since people don't keep more than a few days' food in their huts. The rice harvest will somewhat alleviate the food problem when it occurs, Mock says. Residents and relief workers also will have to deal with drinking water that is dirtier than usual — water in that area of India is never clean, he says. Homelessness is not the worst thing they'll face, Mock says. Already people sleep on mats outside for most of the year. "They are people who are accustomed to hardship and living on the edge, so there's a lot of resilience." And tsunami victims will get financial help from their own country, he says.
Posted by: k.ram Jan 5 2005, 10:27 AM
Dear Friends, It has been brought to my attention that the International Cricket Council is holding a benefit match to help tsunami victims -- ticket sales are already proceeding in full swing. While we should applaud the ICC's social commitment and compassion, we should strongly question their choice of aid agency to receive the proceeds from this benefit match. They have chosen World Vision International, an organization with a patently transparent conversion agenda and track record in third world nations. I am amazed that the representatives of their Executive Council including Mr. Jagmohan Dalmia meekly went along with this. It would be more powerful for Hindu, Buddhist and progressive organizations of all faiths to protest this -- rather than isolated individuals. We should unite and stridently question what possessed the Cricket Council, a promoter and symbol of diversity and multiculturalism, to designate a beneficiary like World Vision for its fundraiser. To offer aid to an organization with an explicit agenda to uproot people from their native belief systems is to doubly victimize the victim. Let what the tsunami left behind of the region's cultural and spiritual diversity not be washed away as well! Regards, Chitra Raman SOME USEFUL WEBLINKS: 1. News Announcement of Tsunami Ticket Sales http://www.icc- MEDIA_04JAN2005.html 2. International Cricket Council Board of Directors (Jagmohan Dalmia, India ) 3. Asian Cricket Council Announcement of the benefit match 4. Media registration instructions provide some contact emails http://www.icc- MEDIA_04JAN2005.html 5. To write to them directly from their website or write to ICC Corporate Affairs The Clock Tower Lord's Cricket Ground London NW8 8QNEngland Tel. +44 (0)20 7266 1818 Fax. +44 (0)20 7266 1777 email:
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 5 2005, 08:04 PM
Posted by: vishnua Jan 6 2005, 02:16 PM
Recently (after the elections) in Andhra, christains were asking for reservations as they openly admit that they are 10% of the population. It is very rampant in Andhra (expecially coastal districts) probably more than TN with ppl like Dr. K.A. paul etc actively working and getting funded from thier american masters (mostly from texas in this case). his actual name is kilaru anand but goes by Dr paul and runs Globeone organisation. Added later Is anybody working in andhra like what GS doing in TN. if so can you please let me know . i do know about but is there anybody else out there..
Posted by: k.ram Jan 7 2005, 04:10 AM
QUOTE (vishnua @ Jan 7 2005, 02:46 AM)
Is anybody working in andhra like what GS doing in TN. if so can you please let me know . i do know about but is there anybody else out there..
vishnua, please stay tuned. I will post some information soon. biggrin.gif Is there any way you can contribute? If so how? We can now take this off line. Thank you
Posted by: Mudy Jan 7 2005, 01:28 PM BABU JAYAKUMAR
Posted by: vishnua Jan 7 2005, 02:55 PM
Guys like these ( K.a. paul, Ravi zar***, prabhakar) are more threat to india in the long run than the current commie batch..these guys have huge amount of financail backing from their patrons (some of them billionaries in US). this guy paul was very clsoe to GM balayogi (who died in Helicopter crash) and from there he built substantial relatiosn with AP politicians... look at the way he boasts about CM not coming to meet him and he has biggest airplane etc... He was even given audience on O'Riely factor few times...He is very active in coastal districts especially Vizag, vijayanagaram and then to Guntur and all then way down to Nellore. more about him here
Posted by: agnivayu Jan 7 2005, 08:01 PM
Does anyone have personal experience as to how successfull the Christian Missionaries are in India especially south India, where I hear they have been more successfull. K.A. Paul is a white puppet. The white man won't be the only folk with cash in the future. I hope India industrializes fast, let's see if Christians can battle us dollar for dollar. I also heard that many of the Fishermen who were killed were Christian. Pat Robertson on numerous occasions has mention the wrath of his jealous god, could it be that he is in reality a devil worshipper ? The best way to counteract these Christians, and which will happen without a doubt in the future is the white nationalist movement. The White Racists hate Christian Evangelists because of race mixing. Perhaps that might be an unlikely ally of the future.
Posted by: vishnua Jan 7 2005, 08:19 PM
i can give atleast three examples. one in the family , one batchmate and one very good neighbour of our family (only husband got berseck with christanity) . Their second daughter was practically raised by my parents since kids in my family weren't home.(college and working in different cities) when i talk to my grandpa he says now a days ven upper caste ppl are taking up to christanity.if you look at the one of the post in the previous pages about 411eater and the chruch of bread and wine the guy's place is from couple of miles from my grand pa place . so far he is only one on that website from india but most of them from africa. BBC did have a report about 411eater guys .
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 7 2005, 10:52 PM
Author's Note: Newspapers in Bangalore have taken a policy decision that they will not publish any item critical of Benny Hinn's Festival of Blessings - PRAY FOR INDIA - crusade that will take place in the City from Jan 21-23. The reason: they don.t want to lose the income from the regular daily advertisements published regarding the event. Hence, understandably, the following article will not find a place in my weekly column in the local daily. What the heck will the controversial American televangelist and faith-healer, Benny Hinn, be doing in Bangalore from Jan 21-23 during the ‘Festival of Blessings’ crusade allegedly organised to “Pray for India”? It’s weird. Various investigative reporters around the world have debunked Benny Hinn as “ a dangerous fake. He is not a healer; he is an accomplished and wealthy entertainer who preys on the weaknesses, hopes, and superstitions of thousands of worshippers who all want a quick fix”. The colossal gullibility and stupidity of so many thousands of people to believe in the clever theatrical tricks being performed by Benny for the sick and dying is disturbing and saddening. There’s a CBC documentary which tears apart him as “a massive fraud and a crook”. He runs a huge multi-million empire, taking money from poor susceptible people. He collects around 200 million US Dollars annually. Benny Hinn, undoubtedly, “is more a servant of Mammon than God.”
rest on the link..
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 8 2005, 07:59 AM
One of the most important defenses against xtianity is economic improvement of Hindus Economic improvement of Hindus prevent both western dollars and petro-dollars I would say that in about 15 years, rice xtianity may be a thing of the past Next is to educate hindu moron-swamis not to praise the fake Jesus Finally a campaign against the roots of xtianity, not just missionaries
Posted by: Sunder Jan 8 2005, 11:51 AM
This is not india specific, but is pertains to Missionaries (and islamic proactiveness to it. Wish Indian groups too articulate the message loud and clear.) The arrival of an Australian Catholic priest in the tsunami-ravaged Indonesian province of Aceh has sparked a warning from a hardline Islamic group not to try to convert Muslim children. Father Chris Riley, who heads the charity Youth Off The Streets, arrived in Aceh on Friday with plans to set up an orphanage to house some of the reported 35,000 Acehnese children whose parents are dead or missing. But yesterday radical Islamic Defenders Front chief Hilmy Bakar Almascaty warned him to stick purely to humanitarian work in Aceh, the only Indonesian province to have fully implemented Muslim sharia law.
Posted by: agnivayu Jan 9 2005, 11:15 AM
Have X'tian conversions accelerated in the last 10 years versus before ? I heard Pat Robertson once say his most optimistic view was 30 million more Christians in India in 30 years. The west and Islamic world will increasingly be dealing with internal problems and fighting against each other in the near future. This will provide some breathing space for Asian Countries especially India to Industrialize. The next 30 years is a golden opportunity for Hindus to finally build up their strength. We should be "armed and considered dangerous" by 2030.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 9 2005, 12:10 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 9 2005, 12:15 PM
What has heppened in the last 10 years is TV and Internet. As a result whatever a person feels is more determined by what the TV says rather then any direct personal experience. This can result in amplified movements in either directions. And for whatever reason Xtianity has not been completely exposed in India. People still tend to associate it with the loving padre doing selfless service. People have memories of the islamic kartoots but not the missionaries.
Posted by: agnivayu Jan 9 2005, 01:30 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 10 2005, 12:45 AM)
What has heppened in the last 10 years is TV and Internet. As a result whatever a person feels is more determined by what the TV says rather then any direct personal experience. This can result in amplified movements in either directions. And for whatever reason Xtianity has not been completely exposed in India. People still tend to associate it with the loving padre doing selfless service. People have memories of the islamic kartoots but not the missionaries.
Another advantage that I feel we are slowly gaining is the mindset of the next generation in the west. They are far weaker and less confrontational than the older white folk. A good example is Pat Roberton versus his son. I also think that the younger generation in the west is more materialistic and far less willing to do missionary type work.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 9 2005, 01:36 PM
They see disaster relief as an opportunity to create converts. Other evangelical groups disagree. By Jim Remsen Inquirer Faith Life Editor As Western humanitarian organizations unleash an armada of relief supplies and workers into Asia's crisis zone, some evangelical Christian groups aim to bring the Gospel to the victims, as well. Religious groups promise to be a major presence in the massive relief and reconstruction effort. InterAction, the largest alliance of U.S.-based nongovernment organizations, reports that of its 55 member agencies providing tsunami aid, 22 are faith-based. Most of the religious players, including the Red Cross, the American Jewish World Service, and Lutheran World Relief, have rules against proselytizing. At the same time, though, evangelical groups active in Asia, including the Southern Baptists' International Mission Board, Gospel for Asia, and the Christian and Missionary Alliance, say the Bible always impels them to create converts to the faith. "This [disaster] is one of the greatest opportunities God has given us to share his love with people," said K.P. Yohannan, president of the Texas-based Gospel for Asia. In an interview, Yohannan said his 14,500 "native missionaries" in India, Sri Lanka, and the Andaman Islands are giving survivors Bibles and booklets about "how to find hope in this time through the word of God." In Krabi, Thailand, a Southern Baptist church had been "praying for a way to make inroads" with a particular ethnic group of fisherman, according to Southern Baptist relief coordinator Pat Julian. Then came the tsunami, "a phenomenal opportunity" to provide ministry and care, Julian told the Baptist Press news service. In Andhra Pradesh, India, a plan is developing to build "Christian communities" to replace destroyed seashore villages. In a dispatch that the evangelical group Focus on the Family posted on its Web site, James Rebbavarapu of India Christian Ministries said a team of U.S. engineers had agreed to help design villages of up to 400 homes each, "with a church building in the center of them." Not all evangelicals agree with these tactics. "It's not appropriate in a crisis like this to take advantage of people who are hurting and suffering," said the Rev. Franklin Graham, head of Samaritan's Purse and son of evangelist Billy Graham. Samaritan's Purse is rushing $4 million in sanitation, food, medical and housing supplies to its teams in Sri Lanka and Indonesia. But Graham, in a phone interview from his North Carolina headquarters, said there were no plans to hand out Christian literature with the relief. "Maybe another day, if they ask why I come, I'd say I'm a Christian and I believe the Bible tells me to do this," Graham said. "But now isn't the time. We have to save lives." As Graham knows, laws and customs in non-Christian lands also can inhibit proselytizing. Plans by Samaritan's Purse and other evangelical groups to join postwar reconstruction efforts in Iraq in 2003 raised concerns that they would violate Muslim bans on proselytizing and undercut U.S. efforts to improve ties with the Islamic world. Yohannan said Sri Lankan officials are "extremely angry" with Christian missionary work and want to outlaw proselytizing. Some states in southern India have anti-conversion laws that bar "fraudulent manipulation," he said, adding: "I cannot tell you there is a hell awaiting you because it can be interpreted as a fear tactic." But one of the states, Tamil Nadu, recently repealed its law, and others don't enforce theirs, Yohannan said. Indonesia, a major arena of relief work, does not ban evangelizing, said Riaz Saehu, spokesman for the Indonesian Embassy in Washington. Though the country has a Muslim majority, Saehu said, it accords official status to Catholicism, Protestantism, Hinduism and Buddhism, and "people can do whatever to try to influence others." Grassroots resistance may be a greater impediment to evangelists. Saehu said residents of the hard-hit Aceh province are strict Muslims who "couldn't accept [missionary] activities regardless of the law." Yohannon said Hindu and Muslim extremists have burned Bibles and beaten pastors from his churches in the past. "It's a very sensitive issue," Saehu said. The U.S. government has said it hopes American tsunami aid improves its image abroad, particularly with Muslims. At the same time, it has not tried to impede evangelical efforts, nor has it received complaints about them, State Department spokesman Edgar Vasquez said. "We can't control them," Vasquez said. "They are free to do what they're going to do." Meanwhile, other religious relief groups eschew evangelizing. Many are signatories of a Red Cross-Red Crescent code of conduct that requires, among other things, that aid "not be used to further a particular political or religious standpoint." Church World Service, the humanitarian arm of the National Council of Churches, is among the signatories. "We carry out our work as a calling as Christians, but it's not carried out based on any form of proselytization," said Rick Augsberger, director of the agency's emergency-response program. Faith issues might be shared informally, he said, "but not as an objective."
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 9 2005, 02:13 PM This is a subtle attempt to couch xtian fundamentalism in more benign terms while the rest is all violent and evil. Look for more of this. This is because xtian fundoos played a huge role in bringing GWB back into the office in last election so now some semantic jugglery, psyops and reconstruction will happen that will couch xtian fundoos in US as the 'right' kind of fundamentalism while the rest ofcourse is evil etc..
Posted by: Mudy Jan 10 2005, 08:16 AM
And for whatever reason Xtianity has not been completely exposed in India. People still tend to associate it with the loving padre doing selfless service. People have memories of the islamic kartoots but not the missionaries.
If you watch old or new Hindi movies, Padre will be shown as care taker, helping abandon girl and Hindu priest as thief or crook or rapist. When you repeat this on and on, it leave impression in any brain.
Posted by: LSrini Jan 10 2005, 08:43 AM
If you watch old or new Hindi movies, Padre will be shown as care taker, helping abandon girl and Hindu priest as thief or crook or rapist. When you repeat this on and on, it leave impression in any brain.
Absolutely true. In an heterogenous religion like Hinduism, there is no one to issue fatwas against such attacks. Just think of the backlash that happened for DDLJ (Dilwale dul..) in which SRK comes out of the church and kajol asks him what he was doing and he says he took a leak. The whole damn christian order was castigating the film crew. And I think SRK had to apologize. I have seen this potrayal in many movies. For example in Tamil movie "Anbe Sivam" (meaning love is Siva or god) the villian played by Nasser in the movie is a pious hindu (girl's father ofcourse). Kamal Hasan, the hero gets hurt in an accident and a nun is taking care of kamal. Nasser comes to the hospital and tells kamal something to the effect that kamal got hurt because he tried to harm a pious hindu like him (the villian). Co-incidentally, kamal in this movie is a communist trade union leader (has to be... who else to defeat a bad hindu but a commie). In a lot of tamil movies, duets have the same tune as popular devotional songs and initially people are offended, but later on they think who has the time to protest such cheap tricks. Just to make ourselves feel better, we say that hinduism is strong enough to withstand all this. The question is "Is it really?" We need to bring in more positive associations thru more social activities (JS has been arrested becos of the hospitals and the anti conversion activities to sound off other potential trouble makers) How are we going to tackle these problems?
Posted by: vishnua Jan 10 2005, 12:27 PM
another key is thiing is portraying or playing victim all the time or whenver you get a chance or take a situation and say that ppl belonging to so so religion are victimzed. you don't have to say that these ppl are from minority etc but when you say the name of the victim is john and the aggressor is name is ramesh... There needs to be renissance kind a thing among populace.. Some ppl are suggesting that once we become rich these things will stop trust me they won't . It seems to be financial in certain sections society now days but there are lot of ppl who are financially stable and sound are being converted.. ex: YSR. His grandparetns converted before independence . They were not poor by any means They actally had 120 acres of land. There was an article in rediff about YSR background.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 10 2005, 06:18 PM
It is not only in India that the unscrupulous, cunning 'padris' misrepresent facts and try to entice gullible Hindus to their fold. Even in the U.S.A. they are not lagging behind. Here is a flyer captioned "KARMA" vs. "KRUPA", distributed in Irvine, CA, which twists the Karma-vada, the doctrine of Karma, and at the same breath glorifies the so-called Grace of Jesus Christ, and exhorts: "There is no need for a sinner to perish by his Karma. Jesus Christ is salvation to you in the present. He forgives the sins of your past and He will bring you to glory in future. Come to Christ who is the refuge from Karma. Escape from the judgment to come and enter into eternal life. Will you do that? May the Lord help you to make such a decision." A few excerpts at the very outset: "Karma is the effect of a disobedient act which the first parents committed. The law of Karma ruled over humanity until a new Man came two thousand years ago. This man is the first species of the new human race. He is God who became man. He is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. In Him a new law came into effect. This is the law of grace (Krupa). Karma says: 'You are a sinner by birth'. Sin demands your death. But Krupa says, 'Here is Jesus Christ. He paid to the last pie the debt you owe to Karma. Jesus nailed your Karma to the Cross. Through the first man the law of Karma ruled in your heart. But through Krupa (grace) the fetters of Karma are broken'. "The law of Karma judges you. The law, before the advent of Christ, was such a dread to mankind. Karma demanded good works. But nobody could do good works polluted by a sinful heart. Grace, through Jesus Christ makes you a Karma-muktha (the soul released from Karma). "What happens to man after his death should not be the point of discussion, because we cannot arrive at a definite truth about a thing not revealed to us. Dear friend, the will of God is that you should be saved right now. Moksha is not something people look for as a state after death. It is a practical reality to be enjoyed while you live on the earth. Karma is merciless in its judgment. Eye for eye and tooth for tooth is its principle. Karma theory is not the solution to the issue of life; only Grace is that. God sent his only begotten Son to bear the Karma of all mankind. The Karma of all men is forgiven in Christ. 'You sin is bloody red', says God, 'but I will make it white in the shed blood of Jesus Christ'. "In Christ is the revelation. The mystery of Karma which was hidden for ages is now revealed in Christ. Karma demanded vicarious suffering of Christ. 'Come unto me', says Christ to all those who are heavy-laden by karma. Christ will give us rest. "Dear Friend, your Karma has been stamped on Christ. The Cross is the answer to the problem of Karma. Because of your Karma, Christ, the spiritual law, has made a new act on mount Calvary. Look at the wounded hands and feet of Jesus Christ. Your look of faith heals you. He has borne your death, the wages of your Karma and He is ready to give you eternal life. Don't you want to take what He is offering you? "Karma is unchangeable. But the new law is, 'There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ'. There is no need for a sinner to perish by his Karma. Jesus Christ is salvation to you in the present. He forgives the sins of your past and He will bring you to glory in future. Come to Christ who is the refuge from Karma. Escape from the judgment to come and enter into eternal life. Will you do that? May the Lord help you to make such a decision." A friend who gave me this flyer writes: "The little flyer 'KARMA VERSUS KRUPA' [contents of which are fully reproduced below] was picked during the Indian Independence Day celebration in LA area, at the booth set up by (obviously a Malayali Christian from Kerala): Albert and Maya Thomas. Prarthana Center P O Box 3922 Torrance, CA 90510-3922, Phone 310-518-9714. Web site: E-mail: At the end of the flyer is also another address: Naya Jeevan Project P.O.Box 50415 Irvine, CA 92619-0415 "They had a huge stage for prayer and they were inviting everyone to pray. I saw lot of young and old Indians gathered in their booth. Their message is loud and clear: Do not follow Vedanta /Hinduism, follow our Jesus, the ONLY Savior of your souls.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 10 2005, 06:20 PM
Two hand grenades hurled in a clash between Christians and Hindus killed at least three people and wounded 37 in a part of eastern Sri Lanka where international aid workers are helping tsunami victims, police said. No aid workers were injured or near the explosions, officials said. U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, in Sri Lanka to see tsunami damage, was in Colombo at the time of the blast. Two suspected Christian assailants were arrested soon after the attack in a Tamil rebel-controlled area late Saturday, said V.H. Anil, a police officer in the eastern town of Valaichchenai. Three persons were killed and thirty eight persons were injured in a grenade attack on a tsunami funeral house in Vahaneri. The incident took place Saturday night around 9 PM when several people were gathered to attend a funeral of tsunami victims. An eight year old boy was among the three people who were killed, sources said. The three persons who were killed were: Mr. P. Mahenthiran (38), Mr. T. Tirusan (8), and Mr. N. Ananthan (24). Thirty five persons with injuries were admitted to Valaichenai Hospital and 3 persons with injuries were admitted to Batticaloa Hospital, Police sources said. The attackers came in a 3-wheeler and threw two handgrenades at the funeral house and the reason for the attack is not known, Police sources said. Vahaneri village lies 38km northwest of Batticaloa town and is 3km from Vahaneri junction on the main Batticaloa-Colombo road.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 10 2005, 06:22 PM
“Until the females are raised by education as to hold their proper rank in society and until their hearts are brought under the influence of Christianity, there is little hope that the people of India will rise from idolatry and sin to the dignity and happiness of a Christian people.” – American Mission Report, Jaffna (1839-9-10). Women believed, according to Hunter, that “Christianity was responsible for the elevated status of Western women” and that “in preaching the gospel they were only sharing what they had received in such bounty.” This means that American women missionaries were moved to action by both “the heinousness of heathen womanhood and gratitude for their own Christian womanhood.” Many had noted that such attitude were a kind of “Imperial feminism” In both America and Britain, there, was a whole cult of missionary work, highlighting the “romance of missions.” Women who were “doers” could fight oppressive conditions at home and boldly venture abroad to expose the “wrongs of women.” Magazines, popular novels and poetry on women’s work among “heathen” women abounded; there were journals like “The Heathen Women’s Friend,” “Helping Hand” and books such as Life and Light for Heathen Women were published by the Women’s Board of Missions. Popular novelists also latched on to the theme of missionary adventure, introducing a new genre of daring missionary heroines in exotic settings fraught with dangers of various kinds. Emma Southworth (in Fair Play, 1868) created a character, Britomarte Conyers, whose main desire is to leave America and save other women. “Oh my sisters! My sisters!” she exclaims, “as Christ died to save the whole human race, so I would die for you.” In Britain, Priscilla Chapman wrote a book, Hindoo Female Education (1839), alerting her readers to “the poor idolatrous females in bondage” and wrote of “the necessity of an avowed Christian direction to the efforts which may affect the elevation of the Hindoo females from their present degradation to the proper level.” And in 1878, Isabel Hart (of the Baltimore Women’s Foreign Missionary Society) described heathen women as “degraded, secluded and helpless” and reminded American women of their “responsibility and duty” to support missionary work. Helen Montgomery writing of Western Women in Eastern Lands (1910) said: “Christianity was the most tremendous engine of democracy ever forged” and was “destined to break in pieces all castes, privileges, and oppression.” But missionaries had to also face the realities of rising nationalism in India and Sri Lanka. But the tradition of the white man’s and white woman’s Christian burden continued the belief, among many, that “premature independence for India would be….an abdication of the ordained exercise of Christian rule.” A conservative member of parliament who opposed political reforms for India, which were being discussed in the early 1930s, wrote: “…the whole ideal of British laws, justice, and administration….exactly interpret the Ten Commandements…our idea of government is the nearest approach to Christianity, and to exchange it for government which may lean towards…the worship of Shiva or Kali is…a “spiritual abdication.” “The holy church – now alas steering its malignant way through the Indian Ocean.” - W. B. Yeats (around 1905), letter to Florence Farr. (source: The White Women's Other Burden: Western Women and South Asia During British Rule - By Kumari Jayawardena p. 24-32).
Posted by: bgravi Jan 11 2005, 02:37 PM
Posted by: agnivayu Jan 11 2005, 05:57 PM
These Christians may think they can fool us, but the future will be different. Vedic Civilization has survived 5000 years. A Hairy middle eastern religion with a teaspoon of Euro-ism ain't gonna survive even half as long. Even today western europeans have abandoned Christianity and are under siege from Islamic crazies. Well deserved I might add for what they did to us. If Christian fundamentalists wont' leave us alone, we shouldn't leave them alone either.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 12 2005, 04:20 PM
not related to India but... If Hindus do same, they will be called as fascist who believe in Sati, caste and mention of Gujarat riots.,3604,1388462,00.html
A senior BBC radio producer has quit in protest after the corporation broadcast the controversial musical Jerry Springer - the Opera, saying it was blasphemous and offensive to his Christian faith.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 13 2005, 07:37 PM
WorldHelp raises money for charity efforts and also seeks to win converts to Christianity by building churches and distributing Bibles, according to the group's Web site. Members of the group "will travel to the country of India, where God is overcoming hundreds of years of false religions and idol worship," a message on the Web site said. "We're really not trying to proselytize," Brewer said of the group's orphanage plans. "It's no different than what Mother Theresa did by taking Hindu orphan children and placing them in a Roman Catholic children's home in Calcutta, and she won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing that."
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 13 2005, 07:46 PM
Posted by: acharya Jan 13 2005, 08:01 PM
Evangelists Now Targeting Jain Community in India January 7, 2005, 4:38 pm Besides the rampant conversion drives targeting Hindus and Muslims in India, International Missionary Board initiative seeks to destroy the peaceful Jain community. A recently launched website ( carefully details the population distribution of Jains and conversion techniques. Jainism originated in India about 500 BC at almost the same time and place as Buddhism. The founder of Jainism (Mahavir) is reported to have interacted with the founder of Buddhism. There is some evidence that Jainism is even older (9th century BC) than this. Jains have their own unique sacred scriptures in the Prakrit language and according to Jains their religion is traced to the beginning of time. Jains have contributed much to the arts and sciences of India. Today the adherents of Jainism are about 3.5 million. According to a sermon on conversion tactics ( by B.D.B. Moses, missionaries have chosen to prey on Jains because they are “a very isolated community… they do not often have exposure to the Gospel. There are factors that keep Jains from interacting with Christians on a social level. One of the factors that keep Jains isolated from believers in Christ is the vegetarian diet of the Jains. Jains find it difficult to interact with Christians who are mostly non-vegetarians.” The guide continues on to suggest that missionaries should attempt to convert a handful of Jains and then train them as missionaries to further propagate Christianity. They guide explains this by concluding “In this way the Jains keeping isolated from other communities does not keep Christ from the Jains but encourages the Gospel to move within the Jain community, Jain to Jain.”
Posted by: k.ram Jan 14 2005, 05:06 AM Missionary Relief Blogsite
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 14 2005, 02:59 PM
Watch vultures fighting over bones..
Religions battle for souls on Sumatra - - - - - - - - - - - - By Michael Casey Jan. 13, 2005 | Banda Aceh, Indonesia -- Muslim radicals are handing out Qurans with the bags of rice and sugar they distribute to tsunami victims. Christian aid groups have also rushed in, quietly promising salvation in this predominantly Islamic region but fearful their presence could spark sectarian violence. Across the Indian Ocean basin, dozens of faith-based groups have joined relief efforts in the wake of last month's tsunami, which killed more than 155,000 in 11 countries and left millions homeless. The groups include everyone from al-Qaida-linked militants to evangelical Christians, and their presence is most profound in Indonesia, where the needs are greatest and the cash-strapped government has thrown open the doors to foreign aid groups. The heavy Muslim influence in Aceh province -- one of the few Indonesian regions that has instituted Islamic law -- has defined how the groups operate. While Muslims are bragging about their religious credentials, Christian groups are mostly invisible and instruct workers not to display their church names or wear crosses. "We prefer to address the physical needs first," said William Suhanda, an Indonesian whose Christian group "Light of Love For Aceh" is helping distribute food in Banda Aceh, the provincial capital, and wants to bring 50 children to a Christian orphanage in Jakarta, the national capital. "We also want to expose them to Christian values," he said. "It is so they can see the other side, that we're about the love of Christ. But this is not the place to carry a Bible." But evangelists like Wisconsin native Mark Kosinski say it's impossible to separate relief activities from sharing the Gospel. He acknowledged he was warned to tone down his message but says he has "a job to do." "These people need food but they also need Jesus," said Kosinski, who arrived this week from Malaysia. "God is trying to awaken people and help them realize that salvation is in Christ." One Virginia-based ministry considered airlifting 300 orphans waiting at the Banda Aceh and Medan airports to a Christian children's home in Jakarta. WorldHelp started raising funds for the operation until it learned that the government banned non-Muslims from adopting Acehnese orphans. "What we were attempting to do in finding a home for these orphans is no different from what Mother Teresa did in placing Hindu orphans in a Christian children's home," said Vernon Brewer, president the ministry. The collection of religious groups in this conservative Muslim city, which has only five churches, has raised the possibility of sectarian violence but has also led to some unusual partnerships. The Islamic Defenders Front -- known for trashing Western pubs in Jakarta -- spent much of this week removing corpses from collapsed homes alongside an Indonesian Christian group. Mormons have teamed up with Islamic relief operations to send aid to the region. The United Nations asked the extremist Muslim group Laskar Mujahidin, which allegedly has links to al-Qaida and has been accused of killing Christians in an earlier conflict, to unload a plane of relief supplies late Wednesday because it was short of personnel. "Everyone wants to help in this catastrophe and prejudices are put aside," said Mans Nyberg of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. "Of course, they are serving a role." Still, the dozens of refugee camps have in some ways become the battleground for religious groups. Muslims especially appear to have filled a void left by the government and quickly set up medical clinics, opened schools and are providing much of the food and medicines for tens of thousands of refugees. "We need religion. We need to remember our God," said Sari Andina, a 23-year-old teacher whose camp features a mosque where children are taught Islamic studies. The most prominent Muslim group is the Justice and Welfare Party, a political party that has become popular with its message of morality and clean government. Nearly 2,000 volunteers -- wearing the party's black and yellow -- arrived days after the disaster and are a common sight driving around the city or unloading tons of aid at the airport. For party members like Jamy, the Dec. 26 tsunami was a warning for Muslims. He and other volunteers say that another disaster is inevitable unless people start living according to the teaching of the Quran. "We tell them this came from God and we have to be strong," said Jamy, who like many Indonesians uses only one name. "This is some kind of a lesson. People forgot about God and he has now punished them. Maybe now people will realize what they have done and start going to the mosque." The task is more complex for Christians because they have often been a target of violence in Indonesia, partly over allegations they were attempting to convert Muslims. Since the fall of the dictator Suharto in 1998, thousands of churches have been bombed and burned. Fighting between Muslims and Christians has killed thousands in the provinces of Central Sulawesi and the Malukus islands. "Any time you have a strong Muslim community and concerns about Christianization, there is going to be conflict," said Eddy Rubble, a North Carolina Christian who is volunteering here. "I'm afraid that after months of people helping one another survive, it will only take one spark to create a big issue."
Posted by: k.ram Jan 14 2005, 04:04 PM
Can anyone from B'lore confirm this? ------------- The Chief Metropolitan Magistrate Court in Bangalore has passed an order in our favour. Shri Srinivas, Chief Metropolitian Magistrate, Jayanagar passed the order after going through all the documents furnished by the petitioners including handbills, posters and Video CD. The Magistrate said: a) Benny Hinn Should be arrested the moment he arrives in Bangalore because for inciting communal disharmony among two communities. b) A search warrant has been issued to Police Department to search the entire premises of the `Assembly for Peace and God' in Indira Nagar Bangalore before 17th January 2005. Arrest warrant against Paul Thangaiah, Sekar Kalyanpur, Yeshwantkumar and Gul Kriplani will be decided only after a report is submitted by the Police Department to the Hon. Court on 17th. c) The Magistrate has ordered removal of all the hoardings and posters before 16th of this month. The Petition was filed by an independent body in Bangalore on 10th January 2005. The Magistrate passed the order after going through the documents furnished by the petitioners including few handbills and Video CD. There are still two more cases pending in different courts of Bangalore and judgement is awaited.
Posted by: k.ram Jan 14 2005, 07:26 PM
'Pray for India' may disrupt peace: Court Bangalore: Apprehending that the planned 'Pray for India' meeting by evangelist Benny Hinn in the City later this month would disrupt peace, the Chief Metropolitan Magistrate on Thursday ordered seizure of all materials used for publicity purpose. rocker.gif The court ordered the police to seize the banners, bunting, flags, CDs and books which are being used for the 'Festival of Blessings'. The judge also issued search and seizure warrants returnable by Jan 20. Manjunatha Swamy, a resident of Yelahanka, in a complaint, alleged that the programme, in which Hinn is scheduled to speak, is aimed at conversion. He submitted that the claim made by the organisers, that during theprogramme several diseases will be cured, was false and amounts to quackery. The complainant claimed that Hinn was not a registered medical practitioner and added that he had approached the anti-quackery cell in this regard. ROTFL.gif The petitioner sought directions to police to investigate the matter and also order seizure of materials being used for this programme.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 15 2005, 11:22 AM
How to make missionary activities look good ? Here is an example..
LONDON: The UK's powerful chancellor and prime minister-in-waiting, Gordon Brown, has become the first frontline post-imperial British politician to tell the world the days of apology for Britain's colonial past are over. Brown's outspoken comments about Britain's controversial past came at the tail-end of his week-long mission of mercy to the region Churchillian imperialists once called ‘the Dark Continent'. The remarks, within a fortnight of Britain assuming presidency of the G8, set off a maelstrom of muttered comment at home in London with at least two prominent Indian-born British peers clashing about the irresistible symbolism of a powerful 21st-century British politician appearing to give the Raj a clean chit. Leading British Indian Lord Bhikhu Parekh, academic and thinker told STOI , that while it was important for Britain to end the age of apology for empire, it was equally necessary to project a balanced, holistic picture of the Raj, which "left a terrible legacy in South Asia and Africa." But Brown's friend and Labour soul mate of 22 years, businessman Lord Swaraj Paul insisted, "Gordon's remarks are all about the need to stop feeling sorry about colonialism and get on with doing something to help the world's poor in Britain, Africa or Asia." Till Brown's ‘no-apology-about-empire' remarks, Prime Minister Tony Blair and his aides had only ever controversially advocated a subtle form of neo-colonialism as a British foreign policy objective for failed and failing pre-industrial states. Now, foreign policy pundits believe the tectonic plates of Britain's received wisdom on the old Raj may be shifting, with prominent politicians, historians and thinkers defiantly telling the world the British empire was not all bad. In an apparent tart rejoinder to repeated previous calls for an official British apology for empire, Brown said instead of saying sorry, it was time to talk about enduring British values of liberty and tolerance. But Parekh, who was one of a handful of many thinkers Brown recently contacted while formulating a major political theme of "Britishness", insisted: "The British empire was not an unmitigated evil for us, as Gandhi and Nehru acknowledged as well. But it did have a disastrous side to it for Asia, bringing with it racism and a sense of diffidence in us," he said. Brown's apparent defence of empire significantly comes soon after South African president Thabo Mbeki attacked British imperialists for treating Africans like "savages". But Paul insisted Brown was right to say Britain's history of internationalism and enterprise had given it a greater global reach than any other country. "I think what he's saying is we (Britain) have created a constituency, we know a lot more about people in many countries. Let's use that to help them." Brown, who has displayed a zeal over debt relief for Africa, defended 19th-century philanthropic British missionary efforts in Africa and other wretched parts of the world.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 15 2005, 11:49 AM
Ufffff !!!!!!!! This is toooo much... ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif Received in mail. No url..
CHAOS AT PRESS CONFERENCE OF BENNY HINN PROGRAM Bangalore 15th January 2004 There was a total chaos in the press meet organised by the committe of `Pray for India and Festival of Blessing' (Benny Hinn's Program) in Bangalore Press Club Today at 12.00 noon. The program organisers Gul Kriplani, Paul Thangaiah, former DGP Kolaso, Ruban, Satyavrat and Samuel spoke about the objectives of Benny Hinn's program to be organised in the city of 21st of this month. They briefed the jam packed media with a boring speech for over 45 minutes. Media reporters from various print and electronic Media were present. After all this, question/answer session started: First a Hindu Voice Representative questioned about the handbills which has been distributed throughout Bangalore city in which it has targeted Hindus as followers of idol worship, prostitution, black magic etc etc and advised to accept Jesus as the only God. Tamasha begins: Gul Kriplani (Chairman) evades the question by saying that it is not tjeir pamphlet and they have nothing to do with that. He demanded a copy of the leaflet to be produced immediately by saying that whosoever is responsible action will be taken against him. Suddenly a media person appeared in the scene and presented it to him and to all the media persons by saying "HERE IT IS". Stunned Gul Kriplani said: "I have no idea about it, Mr. Colasa and Paul Thangaiah will answer you." Paul Thangaiah and Colaso said: "This pamphlet is not for public distribution, but for Church circulation and should have been distributed only to christians". Hearing this nonsense, media men were on their feet and protested his comments, saying: "You people have already circulated over 3,00,000 pamphlets in all the pockets of Bangalore and now you are saying it is only for church circulation, who are you trying to fool? That means you are preaching hate against the Hindu community in your churches", for which both Paul Thangaiah and Colaso had become voiceless and were looking helpless. Some media men questioned: "Who is Benny Hinn and how much you know about him? Some Christian Orgs. and media have termed him as false healer and is only for money. If he can heal people of their ailments, why does he not heal Pope John Paul II who is suffering from Parkinson's Disease since last 15 Years. Sweet bebe, sweet Gul Kriplani replied: "He is the son of god and few selfish minded people have dragged him into controversies. Benny Hinn has forgiven all of them". But Kriplani could not give a satisfying answer of curing Pope John Paul of Parkinson's disease by saying: "He can cure not individuals but a group of people at a time." Hearing this answer even a street thug will laugh at him. Later: ETV Kannada correspondent questioned: "On What grounds were you able to get permission to conduct the program at Jakkur Ground, which is an Airforce Land and with whose influence did you get that land and did you pay any money?" There was no answer for quite some time and the funny thing was everyone expected the other to speak. Finally Kolaso said that the Government of Karnataka has given it to them on rental basis, but refused to disclose how much they had paid for 3 days program despite being repeatedly asked by all the Media persons. He said his Audior will disclose in two to three days. The `Children of Jesus' could not even have a sigh of relief before some real mind blowing questions were put to them by the Media about Benny Hinn, Sonia, Pope, Bush etc etc. They had become voiceless and very seriously looking for an opportuntity to run away from there as nothing was going their way. Before they could the Media men left the venue by shouting, "Cheats, false prophet" and openly accusing them for organising the program to convert all people to christanity. This is first time we have seen such a bold reaction from the majority of the media men. These `Children of Jesus' like Gul Kriplani, Paul Thangaiah and Kolasa whose faces had turned red made good their escape. Go Heatherns Go !! rock.gif We hope this trend continues in future too.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 15 2005, 01:36 PM
Amillion people, or is it three million, are heading towards Bangalore. Even the sprawling Palace Grounds are not vast enough for them, so the airfield at Jakkur has been taken over. The occasion? A ‘‘pray for India’’ meeting by the world’s most successful Christian evangelist-preacher-converter-healer-miracleman, Benny Hinn. Unfortunately, he is also the world’s most dubious trader in religion. Unknown to his Indian followers, a considerable volume of literature exists on him, from books like The Confusing World of Benny Hinn to videos like ‘The Many Faces of Benny Hinn’. What they paint is not a pretty picture. Apparently the man is an Arab-Israeli who became a Canadian and then an American. A list of ‘‘lies and exaggerations’’ by him has been chronicled. He said, for example, that he was born with a bad stutter but God cured him so that he could do God’s work. Research showed that he never suffered from stammering. He said his father was the mayor of Jaffa in Israel. Records showed that he was a clerk in an Arab labour office. He says Jesus visits him in person and that the Holy Spirit often has one-to-one dialogue with him. He also holds some interesting views. He once said ‘‘God originally designed women to give birth out of their sides.’’ When challenged, he denied having said this. But there was a tape that disproved his denial. His organisation’s former security director is fighting a court case against him. Hinn’s own lawyers say that if the director reveals the financial secrets he knows, it could lead to the organisation losing 90 percent of its support. The evangelist gets away with things in countries like India because he promises instant cure for everything from cancer to paralysis. His hi-tech stage shows are replete with miracles. He touches a sick devotee who then falls to the ground in a trance shaking – and gets up cured. He blows into the microphone and the Holy Spirit is dispensed into the listeners. It’s commercialised theatrics at its best. This is the magician who will now ‘‘pray for India.’’ He is not alone. In the thick of the tsunami relief work, an Andhra American, K.A. Paul, landed in Cuddalore. One of the richest evangelists in the world today, this one lacked the sophistication of Benny Hinn, but not the swagger. He had arrived in his custom-built Boeing 747 and proudly informed a News Today reporter that only George Bush had a similar aircraft. He had other things that George Bush didn’t have. He said he had the ‘‘world’s largest’’ orphanage in Hyderabad and would accommodate 5000 children from the tsunami coasts. He said he had Rs 4000 crores at his disposal. He regretted that he had to go and call on Jayalalithaa instead of Jayalalithaa calling on him. Surrounded by bodyguards, beauty queens and American TV crews, the boastful Paul told the hapless survivors that they were alive because of Jesus Christ. Poor J.C. He never boasted and he only had a mule for transport. With airborne pretenders as friends, Jesus Christ needs no enemies. The Pauls and the Hinns abuse and bring discredit to their God. America provides them the financial means to exploit the desperation of the sick and the hopeless. Are there no legal devices that can protect us from their trickery? Let us indeed pray for India: ‘‘Father, do not forgive them, for they know damn well what they are doing.’’
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 15 2005, 03:46 PM Please, please read this article. This is a fantastic article by Shri Elst. The only downside to this is the length of the article. But that is not really a downside. Hindus need to understand the level and type of threat that the xtian cult poses and need to caliberate their response accordingly. I will throw out a suggestion for readers as also other admins. Taking these articles as a grand narrative we need to start coming out with smaller articles which are focused on smaller issues and gradually build up a library of such articles. Many times in various fora we see the same thing being repeated over and over again. It would be nice to have a library of such articles at disposal so there is no need to articulate the responses. For eg. we can have one small article on historical fallacy of JC being the *only* begotten son of god, etc. Such articles which when properly categorised can be an eye opener to a casual reader as compared to these longish (and brilliant) articles. So what say ?
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 15 2005, 03:59 PM
Posted by: Sunder Jan 16 2005, 12:04 PM Villagers furious with Christian Missionaries: [India News]: Samanthapettai, Jan 16 : Rage and fury has gripped this tsunami-hit tiny Hindu village in India's southern Tamil Nadu after a group of Christian missionaries allegedly refused them aid for not agreeing to follow their religion. Samanthapettai, near the temple town of Madurai, faced near devastation on the December 26 when massive tidal waves wiped it clean of homes and lives. Most of the 200 people here are homeless or displaced , battling to rebuild lives and locating lost family members besides facing risks of epidemic,disease and trauma. Jubilant at seeing the relief trucks loaded with food, clothes and the much-needed medicines the villagers, many of who have not had a square meal in days, were shocked when the nuns asked them to convert before distributing biscuits and water.furious.gif furious.gif Heated arguments broke out as the locals forcibly tried to stop the relief trucks from leaving. The missionaries, who rushed into their cars on seeing television reporters and the cameras refusing to comment on the incident and managed to leave the village. Disappointed and shocked into disbelief the hapless villagers still await aid. "Many NGOs (volunteer groups) are extending help to us but there in our village the NGO, which was till now helping us is now asking us to follow the Christian religion. We are staunch followers of Hindu religion and refused their request. clap.gif And after that these people with their aid materials are leaving the village without distributing that to us," Rajni Kumar, a villager said. The incident is an exception liar.gif to concerted charity in a catastrophe that has left no one untouched.(ANI)
Posted by: LSrini Jan 16 2005, 12:50 PM
Article from Daily Pioneer on increasing Christian influence in india
Fact file: Refusal to please UPA led to purge Navin Upadhyay/ New Delhi Decisions on films on Gujarat riots, sex in church displeased Govt----The recent purge in the Film Appellate Certification Tribunal (FACT) comes in the wake of the tribunal refusing to toe the United Progressive Alliance (UPA) Government's line on certain sensitive issues. The UPA Government was understood to be seriously upset with the tribunal for overturning the decision of the Censor Board on a film titled Sin, which was based on the sexual exploitation in the Church. "The Censor Board had rejected Sin, a full-length feature film, but the tribunal cleared it with certain cuts. I fought tooth-and-nail to get this film cleared. It exposes moral corruption in the church, and there is no reason why it should be withheld," says Rakesh Sinha, a Delhi University lecturer and outgoing FACT member, who was ousted during the purge. Insistence of some tribunal members that a Bombay High Court decision giving clearance to a film based on Gujarat riots - Chand Bhuj Gaya - be challenged, was also a contentious issue not acceptable to certain quarters in the ministry. The Censor Board had cleared the film, subject to certain deletion of scenes of violence, but the tribunal rejected its recommendations and refused to give the go-ahead to the film on the grounds that it could inflame communal tension. However, after the Bombay High Court overruled the FACT's decision, members like Rakesh Sinha wanted the tribunal to go into appeal. "We should have challenged the High Court's decision. I argued for it vehemently but the tribunal chairman rejected my submission. I am exploring the possibility of going into appeal as an outgoing member of the FACT," Mr Sinha told The Pioneer. The members of the FACT who were nominated by the previous NDA Government are fuming with rage since they had completed only eight months of their three-year term. "We may be forced to take judicial recourse to challenge this illegal and politically motivated decision," says Mr Sinha. FACT is a quasi-judicial tribunal and according to its rules, members could be removed midway only on three specific grounds - corruption, absenteeism and serious complaints. In the present case none of the dropped members have so far been formally conveyed the decision of the tribunal's reconstitution. The nomination of AICC secretary Tom Vadakkan's wife on the tribunal during its reconstitution is also likely to kick up a controversy since the UPA Government had all along accused the NDA regime of filling up Censor Board and FACT with 'saffron' nominees.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 16 2005, 01:51 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 16 2005, 04:36 PM
The Shantivanam ashram looks like a rishi's home transported from Vedic times to the banks of the sacred Cauvery River at a forested place near Trichy in South India. A pilgrim's first impressions are strong, and very Hindu: the elaborately colorful Hindu shrine; the bearded, saffron-robed "swami" seated cross-legged on a straw mat; devotees practicing yogic meditations, even chanting Hindu scriptures. But these impressions gradually prove false. First, the eye detects that the courtyard shrine is for Saint Paul and that "puja" is actually a daily Mass, complete with incense, arati lamps, flower offerings and prasadam. Finally, one meets the "swami", learning he is Father Bede "Dayananda" Griffiths, a Christian "sannyasin" of impeccable British background. This is a Christian ashram, one of more than 50 in India, which are variously described as "experiments in cross-cultural communication," "contemplative hermitages that revolve around both Christian and Hindu ideas," or (less charitably) "institutions to brainwash and convert India's unwary masses." Are these places to be endorsed by Hindus as worthy attempts to share each other's spirituality? Or are they a spiritual oxymoron, a contradiction of terms, because the Christians are interested in sharing - dialogue is the term they use - only as a means to conversion?
Read on at the link..
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 16 2005, 04:58 PM So what the heck is going on with this Benny circus ?? Is it on or not ?
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 16 2005, 05:06 PM,00080002.htm
Posted by: Sunder Jan 16 2005, 06:25 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 17 2005, 05:06 AM)
Finally, one meets the "swami", learning he is Father Bede "Dayananda" Griffiths, a Christian "sannyasin" of impeccable British background. Check the Map of India (without Kashmir and eastern India) in his Bio page.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 16 2005, 09:56 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 10:49 AM,1413,36~53~2657661,00.html This is rocket science.. Many many moons from now somebody will *hopefully* figure out that proselytizing itself divides.. rolleyes.gif
Posted by: acharya Jan 17 2005, 11:22 AM
Index of Wisdom Christianity Articles and Reviews by Bruno Barnhart, OSB Cam The attraction that we experience in the Eastern spiritual traditions today is the magnetism of wisdom: a knowing which is life, inner experience and union. This wisdom was the 'golden string' which drew Bede Griffiths to India, and it is what Bede has communicated to us in his talks and writings. This spiritual wisdom is not foreign to Christianity, though it has long been unfamiliar in the western world. Within the New Testament there is a depth and fullness which has largely disappeared in the many succeeding centuries, but which is always there to be rediscovered. Bede Griffiths, in dedicating his life to the 'marriage of East and West,' was working toward the rebirth of Christian wisdom in the light of the Vedanta: of nonduality or advaita and of the discovery of the inner Self, or atman. Contemporaries such as Abhishiktananda and Raimon Panikkar have worked along the same frontier of unitive experience, or the 'perennial philosophy.' Today Christianity finds itself confronted not only by the wisdom of the East—Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism—but by other wisdoms as well. Jungian and transpersonal psychology, modern art and poetry, tribal shamanism, hermeneutics, ecology and feminism, literary theory and the history of thought—on every side, the sharp edges of western consciousness are rounded and silvered by an invisible river of psyche and spirit.
Posted by: acharya Jan 17 2005, 07:16 PM
Resentment against evangelist programme By Our Staff Reporter BANGALORE, JAN. 17. There seems to be growing resentment about the State Government patronage for the California-based evangelist, Benny Hinn's religious programme, called the "Festival of Blessings" slated here this week. Today, heads of 17 Hindu Mutts, including Sri Vishwesha Thirtha Swamiji of Pejawar Mutt, met to discuss the portents of such events for the country. The meeting unanimously resolved to demand that the Chief Minister, N. Dharam Singh, cancel the permission given for the event at the Jakkur airfield from January 21 to 23. The Government had no business patronising a person "who has been castigated and disowned by the clergy in his own country," the Swamijis said. Sri Vishvesha Thirtha said that although Hinduism was the most tolerant religion, its leaders could not watch people with an ulterior agenda take advantage and entice gullible people to Christianity. "Such an assault on Hinduism has been going on for decades and there are elements amidst us who encourage such persons for their own gains. If it is indeed true that Benny Hinn can cure disease and wipe out misery with a mere touch, let the Government prove this, and we will accept it," the Swamiji said. Swami Harshananda of Ramakrishna Mutt stressed the tolerant nature of Hinduism and urged all Hindu leaders to shed their differences and fight the Government for having given its approval to a programme that was demeaning to Hindu values. Sadhu Rangarajan of Bharat Matha Gurukula Ashrama in Krishnarajapuram alleged that the CIA apart from affluent Christians in the U.S. had pledged $1.4 billion for experiments in mass conversions in Asia and elsewhere. The other heads of Mutts who attended the meeting on Monday are: Sri Rangapriya Mahadeshika Swami of Ashtangayoga Vijnana Mandira; Swami Nirbhayananda Saraswathi of Ramakrishna Vivekananda Ashrama, Bijapur; and Swami Veereshananda Saraswathi of the same ashram from Tumkur; Swami Yogeshananda of Ramakrishna Yogashrama; Sri Shivapuri Swami of Omkar Ashrama; Sri Vivekananda Sharanaswami, Kaveri Ashrama, Kodagu; Sri Shantaveerananda Swami, Sri Koladamutt; Sri Vidyabhinava Vidyaranya Bharati, Koodli Sringeri Mutt; Swami Keshavadasa, Swami Narayana Pantha; Sri Kumara Chandreshekaranath Swami of Vishwa Okkaliga Samsthana; Sri Chidatmananda Swami, Akshara Vidyadevashrama; Sri Chidhwana Swami, Ganjam Mutt; Sri Raghunatha Guruji, Temple of Success; and Sri Mahantalinga Shivacharya Swami, Vibhutipura Mutt.
Posted by: acharya Jan 17 2005, 07:17 PM
`He is coming only to pray for people' By Our Staff Reporter BANGALORE, JAN. 17. The organisers of the "Festival of Blessings" have said that evangelist Benny Hinn was coming to India only to pray for the people and that he was not on a crusade. At a press conference today, the members of the organising committee said the programme was not an exercise at conversion. "This meeting is to pray for peace and welfare of people of all religions. We do not believe in invading another religion," said Gul Kripalani, national chairman, ``Festival of Blessings.'' Over 60 per cent of the people who attended Mr. Hinn's prayer in Mumbai last year were not Christians, he said. Mr. Kripalani said Mr. Hinn did not have any healing powers. "He only prays for the sick; he does not guarantee any healing."
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 12:03 AM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 16 2005, 04:36 PM)
I think this is interesting..
"Robert De Nobili (a Catholic Jesuit priest) appeared in Madura in 1607 clad in the saffron robes of a Sadhu with sandal paste on his forehead and the sacred thread on his body. He gave out that he was a Brahmin from Rome. He showed documentary evidence to prove that he belonged to a clan that had migrated from ancient India. He declared that he was bringing a message which had been taught in India by Indian ascetics of yore and that he was only restoring to Hindus one of their lost sacred books, namely the 5th Veda, called Yeshurveda [Jesus Veda]. It passed for a genuine work until the Protestant Missionaries exposed the fraud about the year 1840. This Brahmin Sannyasi of the 'Roman Gotram,' Father De Nobili, worked for 40 years and died at the ripe age of 89 in 1656. It is said that he had converted about a lakh of persons but they all melted away after his death."
How were they converted back ? What was the convert's status before ? After ? Socially ? Politically ? Economically ?
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 03:48 PM
BANGALORE: In a new twist to the Benny Hinn controversy, the organisers objected to the pamphlets which stated that idol worship was akin to prostitution. They then declared that Hinn was no healer and that he would only pray for India during his three-day meet in Bangalore.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 03:51 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 05:22 PM
"Benny Hinn, despite his popularity on TV shows, is not accepted by many of his colleagues.... it will be wise to strongly discourage your parishioners from attending his show." This message was not from any Hindu or Muslim fanatic. It was the statement issued a year ago by the Archbishop of Mumbai, Cardinal Ivan Dias, urging his parishioners to keep away from the show. Last year, Benny's programme was organised at Mumbai by the same Gul Kripalani, when Archbishop Cardinal spoke of Hinn's "false prophecies, his alleged vision of angels, contact with the dead, his emphasis on the Gospel and physical healing". It was not just the Mumbai Archbishop, who issued a warning against Benny Hinn. A host of Christian missionaries both in India and aboard have time and again warned people about his "magical healing". In 2003 when Benny visited Hongkong, Christian teachers had warned the public to be skeptical of the visiting "preacher's powers". The programme was organised at Hong Kong's International Trade and Exhibition Centre and the matter was reported in South China Post. During that time, John Le Mond, a professor of theology at Lutheran Theological Seminary at Sha Tin said: "I would say he is the worst kind of charlatan, the kind of person who gives religion a bad name.... He uses funds for his own personal use and travels by a private plane. I consider him a person without any personal moral integrity. I think it sad that some group in Hong Kong has chosen to bring the worst of American Christianity to Hong Kong."
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 18 2005, 07:59 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 19 2005, 10:16 AM'redeem'~swastika User "vaidix" on sulekha asks -> Cross was used for genocide by "Saint" Xavier and others. Why not ban that ? Its only fair.. dry.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 19 2005, 05:40 PM
Look at this fundoo (and a bozo)..
Sir, If the Binny Hinn's forthcoming visit to Bangalore had provoked a controversy, much of its blame has to be accepted by the media who had painted him as some sort of Godman or Healer. The question is how Binny Hinn looks at himself? We can get a cue from his Prayer Meeting in New Delhi three months ago for a select group of Cabinet Ministers, Parliamentarians, Bureaucrats and Supreme Court Judges. The program was recorded by Binny Hinn Ministries and telecasted by God's Channel repeatedly in several occassions, much before the present controversy erupted. In this meeting Binny Hinn started his session with a starkling revelation " I can't heal even a fly". He went to clarify it was only God by His power who could heal and that power could be accessed by all for free by prayer. The media also does not care to highlight the process behind Prayer Meetings like the Festival of Blessings. For more than six months, thousands of ordinary people had each day gathered at Jakkar Grounds (the venue of the meeting), fasting and praying that God unleash his mercy on the thousands who are expected to come to the meeting on the hope of getting healed. There are millions of Binny Hinn supporters around the globe, who also fast and pray daily for the same purpose. Lastly, the Bible tells us that Jesus had promised that if 3-4 gather in His name, what is asked for will be given. Christians believe that the power of this promise will be upscaled if millions synchronized their prayers. In short, prayers are answered to individuals who have faith and not by Binny Hinn's supposedly miracleous powress. Accordingly, Binny Hinn within this understanding is hardly a healer, even if people gets healed at all in the prayer meetings he organizes. He is at best a catalyst that makes all this process possible. Another misconception is that Binny Hinn declares people as healed. If one follows Binny Hinn televised programs, he does no such thing. It is people in the audience who declare themselves healed. It is possible that some get emotionally carried away and claim a healing when no such thing takes place. Others may deliberately fake a claim just to cast the organizers into disrepute. It is impossible for organizers of such mass prayer meetings to thoroughly investigate the claims of healing in except to treat claims at their face value, though they may later try to document evidence which may take several months, if not years. The other misplaced charge is that the Festival of Bessings at an attempt of conversions. Even if it be the case, in the absence of coercion or inducement involved, what is the fuzz all about? India is a free country. As citizens, we all possess the right to make choices. In this case, we can choose either to attend or not attend such meetings, if it is perceived as designed as a conversion trap. If Binny Hinn's meeting has to be banned for whatever reason, let it be a precedent and applied to all religious meeting to avoid discrimination from here on. If the forces that oppose Binny Hinn does so simply because he is a foreigner, let them in the same breadth call for a similar ban on overseas visits for the likes of Sri Sri Ravishankar, Mata Arutanandamayi etc. Otherwise it overtly smacks of hypocrisy and discrimination! Rajan Alexander Bangalore
Another bozo..
Fallen prey to the fundamentalists Sir, Your editorial "Faith Healing?" seemed to mock at all those believers and to draw outright conclusions that Benny Hinn is a quack!. If only all religions are put under scientific scrutiny and all belief systems sought be explained in scientific means, there would be no religion that would come out clean!. Knowingly or unknowingly you have hurt the sentiments of a section of your readers who hold Benny Hinn in esteem. While it�s true that he is controversial, your editorial just on the eve of his arrival in Bangalore was tantamount to a smear campaign and definitely not in the Indian ethos of welcoming a guest!. While the participation of the Chief Minister and other government officials in their official capacity can be questioned as this is a religious function, no one can advice them not to participate in their individual capacities. The secular government simply has no business to be associated with this program except for facilitating and making sure proper protection is meted out to all attendees in view of the serious threats spelled out by fundamentalist and rogue elements in our society. While the issue of pamphlets being circulated with objectionable material on Idol worship needs to be investigated and the culprits dealt with seriously for causing communal disharmony the suspicions regarding his mission of conversion are baseless and unfounded fears. Benny Hinn or even his pop cannot effect conversions on the intelligent Indians. Conversion is a matter of spirit and cannot be achieved by hypnosis or any other dubious means as his critics point out. If only this were true, the Church would have employed professional hypnotists! Tens of thousands Christians and non-Christians, plan to gather in show of solidarity and pray for our country. Does this not hold a promise for communal amity and brotherhood in our strife torn society?. For once, have you fallen prey to the fundamentalists who always view the minorities with suspicion?. Chezhiyan Anandaraj Bangalore
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 19 2005, 05:49 PM
BANGALORE, JAN. 19. In an ironical way, Benny Hinn's programme could be a "festival of blessings" after all. Speakers at a symposium on the "fraudulent faith healing and deceitful conversions" said and some prominent Christian citizens shared insights into the tenets of their own religion. Shruti Priya of Arya Samaj jolted the audience with her remark: "Thank you, Benny Hinn". She soon had the small audience in the Sir Hugh Daly Memorial Hall of the Mythic Society sighing and laughing in relief as she took them through the essence of Hinduism. They had all come to nought — by divine intervention, or in spite of the designs of the orchestrators. Film actor, director and producer Joe Simon, who began by talking of being a Christian in a colony of Brahmins and mostly Hindus who never made him feel an outsider, said even Jesus Christ, who had performed miracles, or Moses, and the Testaments and the Bible, never called on the faithful to convert people to demonstrate the greatness of their religion. "What Mother Teresa did was healing, I wouldn't call Benny Hinn a healer", he said. Writer and scholar Shatavadhani R.Ganesh said the founders of great religions, be it the Buddha, Mahaveera or many Hindu sages never used miracles to draw the faithful and the believers. "Our religion is replete with sages and philosophers who persuaded followers by their philosophy, wisdom, and knowledge, and we need to understand what one means by the word conversion — does our blood group change, or our lifestyle, or outlook? What changes is the belief, and belief is nothing but absence of experience", he said. Writer Sumateendra Nadig, who has led many protests demanding that churches in Bangalore should hold service in Kannada, said he now found immense relief in experiencing the idea of India, and grateful for it all. "We don't need evangelists to tell us how to find God", he said. Former minister Harnahalli Ramaswamy, who heads the Lokashikshana Trust, inaugurated the seminar and said that allowing "Festival of Blessings" is like opening the floodgates to scores of people who look upon India as a fertile ground for their conspiracies. Social activist and scholar Mumtaz Ali Khan said although the organisers of the programme speak about healing and changing the lives of the poor and the sick, they are sparing no expense to make his stay in the city luxurious and opulent. "Let us find the unseen hand that is moving this event, and is bent upon orchestrating it, despite the widespread opposition," he said. M. Ramakrishna, retired Chief Justice of the Jammu and Kashmir High Court and the Guwahati High Court, who presided over the event, read out the resolutions of the meeting. The symposium, organised by Jana Jagruti, passed resolutions demanding the cancellation of the Benny Hinn programme, and asked the Government to explain how a sensitive area like Jakkur airfield is chosen as the venue.
Posted by: k.ram Jan 19 2005, 07:31 PM
The World Federation of Tamil Youth, based in Chicago, U.S. has launched the International Jayalalitha Peace Corps. And guess what they would do? The Corps will assist rehabilitation works in the quake-struck Gujarat area. U.S. Congressman Sherrod Brown congratulated the founders of the volunteer corps for establishing a service organisation, yes, hold it, `to realise the vision of India's dynamic leader J. Jayalalitha in India and abroad'. We are quoting ad verbatim. Dr. Vijay Prabhakar, president of the forum, said pretty much the same thing. omg.gif Closer home, the National Christian Theological College conferred an honorary doctorate on Dr. Vijay Prabhakar. Dr. Vijay Prabhakar, a qualified physician, however got his doctorate for having written a book on Jayalalitha.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 20 2005, 10:48 AM
Madikeri, Jan. 20 (KBM&-MRS)- It could be dubbed as a 'remote controlled miracle'. A paralytic patient, who was to be cured at the Benny Hinn congregation to be held in Bangalore from Jan. 21 was cured of his disease almost three days earlier at a far away village even before meeting the evangelist. The media persons were in for a surprise when they saw a paralytic patient just stood up and walked up to them in the house of Bharathi in Virupakshapura, JP Colony, on Tuesday night. Kuria Kose, aged about 70, was brought by his wife and daughter from Tarikere on Tuesday morning to Bharathi's house on their way to Bangalore for the Hinn congregation. Kuria Kose, who was claimed to have suffered stroke in his right hand and right leg, was sitting in a chair watching the media per- sons' conversation with Bharathi. As the media persons were coming out, Kuria Kose, all of a sudden got up from his chair, walked up to them and shook hands with them to bid farewell. In fact, Bharathi had earlier told media persons that the oldman could not walk because of the stroke. He was being taken to Bangalore to be cured by Benny Hinn.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 20 2005, 04:02 PM
BANGALORE: The State Government seems to be bending over backwards to ensure that it’s smooth sailing for controversial pastor Benny Hinn’s ‘Festival of Blessings’ at Jakkur Airfield from Friday. Pulling out all stops, it has got official clearances expedited. Several charges have also been dropped.
Hinn seems poised to change history here, quite literally, thanks to the charitable steps taken by the External Affairs Ministry and the Home Department, who have cleared all hurdles for his visit by issuing him a special visa.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 21 2005, 11:57 AM
Posted by: Mudy Jan 21 2005, 11:58 AM
Subject: Petition to President of India Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2005 03:15:10 -0500 Jan 20, 2005 Dear Honorable Dr. APJ Abdul Kalam - President of India, As members of the Indian American community, having made appreciable contributions towards uplift of India's image and having brought significant improvements in Indo-US relations over the years, we wish to draw your attention to the so-called "prayer for India" program sponsored by some Christian organizations in Bangalore at Jakkur AirForce ground in Karnataka from Jan 21-23. It features a proven con-artist in the garb of a faith-healer. Benny Hinn has been shown to be a fake and an imposter by Christian organizations in the U.S, and the Roman Catholic Church has proclaimed Hinn a preacher of suspect credentials. We are extremely distressed and wish to draw your attention to that fact that this event challenges the secular tenets of the Constitution of India. The "prayer meeting" to be addressed by Benny Hinn is lavishly funded by foreign agencies, and is being supported by the Karnataka Government, whose Chief Minister has said he will attend this "tamasha" in the name of secularism. The state government has gone out of its way to help support the show, and thousands of policemen have been put on special duty to provide security. It is with deep concern we note the involvement of retired police officers and high officials in promoting this event, and the overt support of the state government to the same. According to Indian law, it is illegal to preach against other religions. Hinn says he will pray against idol worship, and warn against prostitution, alcoholism, and other social deviancies. He is equating idol worship with Hinduism and the same as leading to social deviancies. The message is clear and simple from Hinn: he condemns Hinduism and those who identify themselves as Hindus. By supporting this hateful event, the Karnataka government and its top functionaries are denigrating Hinduism, and promoting an ugly and vulgar version of Christianity. We urge you to ask that the promoters and supporters of this event to desist from spreading and encouraging hate. We strongly assert that the Prime Minister of India Honorable Dr. Manmohan Singh must stop this outright attack on India's secular foundations. This Christian evangelical event serves an outrageously selfish end to subvert the constitution of India and needs be curbed forthwith. We sincerely request your immediate intervention. Sincerely, Members India Awareness Foundation (IAF) Greater Atlanta Vedic Temple Sewa International, USA Hindu International Council Against Defamation (HICAD) Hindu American Foundation (HAF) Hindu Student Council, University of Lafayette, LA ACADIANA Hindu Association, Lafayette Cc: Honorable Prime Minister of India Cc: Honorable Ambassador of India to the US Cc: Honorable Consul General of India to US in Houston
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 21 2005, 12:06 PM
He led a two-day crusade last month which was held at the Queen's Park Savannah, Port-of-Spain. He said: "I cast out more devils than I think I've done in a long time. I mean they were screaming everywhere." The televangelist stated he converted mostly Hindus, which he said make up 30 percent of the population, during his crusade. Asked by the interviewer if there was a lot of voodoo in this country, Hinn said, "Oh I think so." According to the televangalist, about 120,000 people attended the crusade. "They have many different groups and of course nationalities. But to see the hunger in that country and the miracles...." he stated.
Posted by: acharya Jan 21 2005, 03:16 PM
Send this Article to a Friend BJP reiterates demand for Benny Hinn's arrest By Our Staff Reporter BANGALORE, JAN. 21. Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) leaders today reiterated their demand for the arrest of Benny Hinn, American evangelist, who is here to conduct a prayer meeting, for "blasphemy against Hindu gods." `Insult' Addressing party workers near the Mahatma Gandhi statue, the General Secretary of the BJP H.N. Ananth Kumar alleged that Mr. Hinn had insulted Hindus for idolatry and hurt their religious sentiments. He demanded action against the evangelist under Articles 25 and 26. The Leader of the Opposition in the Legislative Assembly, B.S. Yediyurappa, said the BJP members will press for the resignation of the Chief Minister, N. Dharam Singh, for allowing the prayer meeting, which he termed an insult to Kannadigas. Mr. Yediyurappa alleged that the Chief Minister is acting at the behest of the Congress President, Sonia Gandhi. On why the BJP is not reacting to the statements of its MP, H.T. Sangliana, on the issue, Mr. Yediyurappa said the matter will be brought to the notice of the party leaders in New Delhi for initiating disciplinary action against the former Director General of Police. Court arrest Holding banners accusing Mr. Hinn of attempting to convert Hindus to Christianity through his "drama of prayers" and demanding his arrest for alleged blasphemy, the BJP leaders, including the State unit President, Jagadish Shettar, courted arrest by blocking traffic near Queen's Circle. The senior Vice-President and MLC, Ramachandra Gowda; the State unit General Secretary, Aravind Limbavali; and Vimala Gowda and Shobha Karandlaje, MLCs; also courted arrest. They were released later. They said the Chief Minister should consider the "successful" bandh in the city as the people's opposition to the prayer meeting. He should take the responsibility for any ugly incidents during the three-day prayer meeting, they added. The protest by the BJP, however, did not affect the people. There were fewer vehicles on Queen's Road, Kasturba Road and Mahatma Gandhi Road because of the public holiday for Bakrid.
Posted by: acharya Jan 21 2005, 04:03 PM
Send this Article to a Friend Congress leaders make a beeline for prayer meeting By Our Special Correspondent BANGALORE, JAN. 21. The coalition Government partners in the State want to maintain their distinctness even when it comes to attending the prayer meeting conducted by Benny Hinn, American evangelist. Probably because it is heading the Government, the Congress wants to be ahead of the Janata Dal (Secular) in marking its presence at the congregation. Congress leaders, including the Chief Minister, N. Dharam Singh, made a beeline for the meeting even as the Janata Dal (S) leaders, including the Deputy Chief Minister, Siddaramaiah, stayed clear on the first day of the programme. Many Congress leaders reached the venue after the prayer meeting commenced. Individual style It was not that they received some last minute instructions to attend the meeting. The individual style of Congress Ministers stood out. Similar to the way they arrive at the Vidhana Soudha, they made it to the venue one after the other. Neither the restrictions on the movement of vehicles nor the big turnout of people all along the route came in their way. Equipped with special entry and car passes, the Congress leaders had the right of way. Several of them had even their families accompanying them. Barring Mr. Siddaramaiah, who proclaims to be an atheist, other Janata Dal (S) leaders may take the road to Jakkur on Saturday when the former Prime Minister, H.D. Deve Gowda, is expected to attend the prayer meeting. Private audiences Police sources told The Hindu that some political leaders had even sought private audiences with Mr. Hinn and went uninvited to the hotel where is staying. Many of them used their clout to seek a "special darshan" but were turned away by Mr. Hinn's assistants. They were clearly told that the special prayers will only be at Jakkur, and if they are keen, they can attend them.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 21 2005, 04:08 PM
Police sources told The Hindu that some political leaders had even sought private audiences with Mr. Hinn and went uninvited to the hotel where is staying. Many of them used their clout to seek a "special darshan" but were turned away by Mr. Hinn's assistants. They were clearly told that the special prayers will only be at Jakkur, and if they are keen, they can attend them.
Shameless cretins.. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
Posted by: agnivayu Jan 21 2005, 04:55 PM
Can a dangerous Hindu Mob be organized that will scare the hell out of hinny and his clowns ? A Nazi style 1 million boot Stomping Hindu warriors is what we need. How will old Ben feel about converting with a Hindu boot up this behind.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 21 2005, 06:28 PM
All the Cong’s horses and all the Cong’s men – they were all there. When it finally came to day of reckoning, Chief Minister N Dharam Singh did land at the Benny Hinn show. With his son and son-in-law, a posse of select Ministers – HK Patil, Mallikarjuna Kharge. Two senior Union Ministers - Sonia Gandhi’s confidante Oscar Fernandes and M V Rajashekaran, former Congress ministers D K Shivakumar, D B Chandre Gowda and Roshan Baig. Chilean President Ricardo Lagos Escobar. The star-spangled night saw Maharashtra Congressman Chaggan Bhujbal, with family in tow. Reading like palm Hinn did not forget to call his ‘dignitaries’ on stage and hugged them. Mr Fernandes’ wife was heard telling Mr Kharge, “You know I had a problem with my palm, the doctors said it had to be operated… then I met him three months ago in Delhi and he put it right. Since then, I have no problem…” Now a believer, she stayed on till the end of the ‘Festival of Blessings.’ To listen to Hinn declaring, “Mighty things are going to happen here tonight.” However, when Hinn began his ‘Prayer for India’ with the end of the national anthem -- the chorus began with singing ‘Jaya He, Jaya He’ -- it was just the beginning of a night filled with lots of song and dance on stage at the vast Jakkur aerodrome. The national anthem was sung even as an American chewed gum on stage and bouncers and private security personnel telling everyone assembled, “No moving about in this sensitive area… And no moving when Benny Hinn gives his word (message). Just sit in one place and listen.” Prayer for sick Nearby, in the ‘sick people’s section,’ a mother sat on the floor with her cancer-struck son on her lap. She refused to allow a doctor to examine the boy. “Just let him (Hinn) pray for my son.. that’s why I came here.” Halfway through the prayer, one Rajesh Leelvani from Mumbai ran around crazed. “I saw Him, I feel Him, thank you Hinn for showing me God. God ka koi dharam nahi hai. God has no religion.” These were just glimpses of the programme (‘drama’ as skeptical police constables assembled there called it). tongue.gif Coupled with Hinn piping out phrases like, “I’ve come here to tell you that God loves you all… I think I’m Indian, I look so like you all…. I love wearing the Nehru suit, it’s just marvelous…” Friday evening wrapped itself around hypnotic belief. Stage set for TBN Hinn then devoted nearly 30 minutes of his packed programme to promote the Trinity Broadcast Network, a private TV channel that shows him on screen regularly. TBN, he said, was establishing base in India (starting with Bangalore), and then called upon TBN’s managing director to talk about his channel. Hinn sang and danced on stage, repeated his ‘words to God,’ repeatedly asking his audience to stretch out their hands to God, he drew them into his world. Interestingly, the State Ministers (and Chief Minister) did not obey by stretching out their hands. They merely listened. Perhaps the only two people to follow his prayer and gestures were Oscar Fernandes and D K Shivakumar. Mr Singh and other Ministers left within half an hour of arriving. Kind offerings Amidst all this, volunteers went around collecting offerings from the audience, particularly those in the ‘Platinum’, VVIP and VIP sections, who can afford any kind of offering. Half an hour after they had embarked upon this task, Hinn declared from the stage, “My spirit won’t take any offering here. We won’t collect any money, for we’ve come to give here, not to take from you all… the cost of this programme will be entirely borne by our ministers.” Too late, for, as one lady in the audience told her husband, “What about what we’ve paid already?” Only to be brushed aside by the husband, “Never mind, they’ve spent so much on this, they’ll use it for something.” ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 21 2005, 06:30 PM
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 21 2005, 07:15 PM
Southern Baptists Pray for Destruction of Hindu Temples January 20, 2005, 12:12 am Indians Against Christian Aggression The website of the International Mission Board (IMB), a branch of the infamous Southern Baptist Convention, is calling for American Southern Baptist missionaries to visit a prominent Hindu temple in India and pray for its destruction. The mission assignment entitled “Jericho Prayerwalk” calls for missionaries to visit “one of the holiest temples“ once a day (at differing times) to walk around the complex praying for the people group. Pray specifically that the walls to the Gospel message will collapse like the walls of Jericho in Joshua.” In other words, missionaries should pray that all the local Hindus convert to Christianity and that their temple will be destroyed. In the past, the Southern Baptist Convention distributed 30,000 copies of a handbook just before the most important Hindu festival of 1999, Diwali, stating that ''Hindus seek power and blessing through the worship of gods and goddesses and the demonic powers that lay behind them." The missionary assignment can be viewed online at:
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 21 2005, 07:16 PM
Freedom Fighter Lala Har Dayal about the Missionary Activity in India: November 28, 2004, 9:20 pm Lala Har Dayal Lala Har Dayal (1884-1939) India's Freedom Fighter wrote about the missionary activity in India: “The missionary is the representative of a society, a polity, a social system, a religion and a code of morality which are totally different from our own. He comes as a belligerent and attacks our time-honored customs and institutions, our sacred literature, and traditions, our historical memories and associations. He wishes to give us a new name, a new place of worship, a new set of social laws. He has declared war to the knife against everything Hindu. He hates all that we hold dear. Our religion is to him a foolish superstition; our customs are the relic of barbarism; our forefathers are to him black heathens condemned to burn in the fires of hell for ever. He wishes to destroy our society, history, and civilization. Our Shastras, Darsanas and Vedas are for him so much waste paper. He regards them as monstrous machine devised by misguided priests to prepare millions for damnation in the next world. He condemns our manners, pooh-poohs our holy love, laughs at our heroes and heroines and paints us black as the devil to the whole civilized world. He is the great enemy of the Hindu people – the Principle of Anti-Hinduism Incarnate – the Ravana of today who hates all that we cherish, despises all that we revere, all that we are prepared to defend with our very lives…. “He looks forward to the time when the Smritis shall be unknown to the descendants of present day Hindus, and the Ram Lila shall have become a meaningless word in their ears. He shall cover Indian with acres of burial-grounds; cremation is anathema to him. He is the arch-enemy who appears in many guise, the great foe of whatever bears the name of Hindu, the ever-watchful, ever-active, irreconcilable Destroyer of the work of the Rishis and Maha Rishis, of that marvel of moral, intellectual and civic achievement, which is known as Hindu civilization. Let us labor under no delusions on this point. You may forget your own name; you may forget your mother. But do not for a moment forget the great, all-important, outstanding fact that the missionary is the most dreadful adversary you have to meet….the greatest enemy of dharma and Hindu national life in the present age.”
Posted by: k.ram Jan 22 2005, 11:49 AM
"EVANGELIZATION: THE GREAT COMMAND AND A COSMIC AUDITING (A REVIEW ARTICLE OF 'SEVEN HUNDRED PLANS TO EVANGELIZE THE WORLD: THE RISE OF A GLOBAL EVANGELIZATION MOVEMENT, by, DAVID B. BARRATT and JAMES W. REAPSOME. PUB: THE A.D.2OOO SERIES.) 1. " The volume surveys 788 most important evangelizing Plans produced by Christianity during its career of over 19 hundred years. All these Plans relate to the Great Commission- the command that Jehovah gave through the mouth of His only Begotten Son, Jesus, to the believers 'go and make disciples of all nations (Mt. 28.19, 20). If there was also a command to improve their morals, it was neglected, but the one to preach and recruit more followers for their God was rather taken in earnest. They promised Him to make "all the peoples of the earth know Him and fear Him." (2 Chr. 6.33) 2. " The survey is a statistical marvel, a worthy sequel to the WORLD CHRISTIAN ENCYCLOPAEDIA (reviewed in the TIMES OF INDIA, JULY 14, 1985), by David Barrett, an outstanding statician-evangelist and senior author of this volume under review. Quite in the spirit of the book, the two authors are introduced as Missionaries who 'have been involved in some 36 (10%) of all the 358 global plans between 1953 and 1988'." 3. " The book is divided into 4 parts and 28 Chapters: it includes 10 Appendices, 27 Tables and Diagrams and a Bibliography, a selection of original and significant writings, classics and other benchmark items on the subject of world evangelization." 4. " The book does not include all the plans, but only a fraction of them representing merely 'the tip of the iceberg'. It however includes plans best known for their global significance and, as we approach modern times, most central plans of major Christian denominations or missions or parachurch agencies which each has over 5000 foreign missionary personnel. The authors analyze these plans using 15 variables." 5. " The biblical story that God created the world out of Chaos proves to the authors that He is a 'God of order, of planning, of strategy'. Similarly, the biblical observation that the 'very hairs of your head are numbered' proves that God is also a great enumerator, and numberer. The authors do no more than imitate their God's skill and audit for us how His Great Commission has been followed by the believers." 6. " Christianity has passed through 66 generations but for the best part of its life the Great Command has been neglected. 'Disobeying the Great Commission: 59 Neglected Generations', has a separate Chapter on it. During this while, there were only 2.6 plans per generation. But with the 19th century began the era of 'five aware generations'. During this time which also coincides with the heydays of Western Imperialism, the number of global plans per generation rose to 28. But the most 'aware' and the richest in planning is the present century (20th century). During its first decade, the figure was 69 plans per generation, 321 during the 1970s and the going rate is 1200 global plans per generation." 7. " In earlier centuries most global plans came from countries bordering on the Mediterranean. Then the shift took place to Europe, Russia and North America. Since A.D. 1900, the U.S. has alone provided 247 global plans." 8. " But while the plans have been abundant, their failures have been no less impressive. The book includes a Chapter, 'A Catalogue of Woes', which enumerates '340 reasons for 534 failed global plans'. The reasons include such items as 'ecclesiastical crime', 'ecclesiastical gangsterism', 'offering tempting inducements', the 'use of laundered money', 'mass religious espionage', 'imperialism', 'terrorism', etc." 9. " Such reasons suggest as if these plans depended for their success on Christians being better than they were. But this is pure assumption. In fact, the reasons cited for their failure are often also reasons for their success. There could easily be a Chapter on 'X-NUMBER OF REASONS FOR SUCCESSFUL Y-NUMBER OF PLANS', and these would have rightly included imperialism, terrorism, coups, arrogance etc. These indeed are cited when the authors discuss 'Evolution of a Global Evangelical Movement' and name individually 304 years of evangelical significance. For example, they mention A.D. 323 for 'attempts to spread the Gospel by Law and Authority' by Constantine; or cite C 780 for 'forced baptism of Saxon race by Charlemagne, 4500 executed in one day for resisting, thousands more deported'; or A.D. 1523, when the 'Spanish monarch orders Cortes to enforce mass conversion of American Indians - - - in Mexico, Franciscans baptize over a million in 7 years, with at times 14,000 a day - - -C 1550, 800,00 Peruvian Amerindians confirmed by one Archbishop of Lima." "RESOURCES'. 10. " Next to political power in importance are money and propaganda. The authors tell us about the resources at the command of Christian Churches. They tell us that today it costs '145 billion dollars to operate global Christianity'; it commands 4.1 million full-time Christian workers, runs 13,000 major libraries, publishes 22,000 periodicals, issues 4 billion tracts a year, operates 1,800 Christian Radio/T.V. Stations. WE ARE ALSO TOLD THAT THERE ARE 3 MILLION COMPUTERS AND THE 'CHRISTIAN COMPUTER SPECIALISTS' ARE DESCRIBED AS 'A NEW KIND OF CHRISTIAN ARMY'." 11. "Missionary activity is a major plank of organized Christianity. At present 4,000 Mission Agencies operate a huge apparatus of Christian world mission manned by 262,300 missionaries costing 8 billion dollars annually. Every year, there are 10,000 new books/articles on foreign evangelization alone. The authors give an interesting estimate and tell us that Christianity has expended on its missionary activities a 'total of 160 million-worker years on earth over these 20 centuries'. But since a missionary does not live by God alone, it has cost the Church exchequer 'somewhere in the neighbourhood of 350 billion dollars', or about 2,200 dollars per year per missionary." 12. " From time to time special plans have also been drawn for evangelizing the world. On 788 of them surveyed here, 10 million worker-years and 45 billion dollars have already been expended. Right away there are 387 global plans at work and 254 of them are making progress. One hundred fifty-five of these plans are called 'massive', defined as those which each expends '10,000 worker-years, or over 10 million dollars a year, for an average of 10 years'. There are still bigger plans, 33 of them called gigantic 'gigaplan', each with over 100,000 worker-years, or 100 million dollars a year, or a total of 1 billion dollars over the years of the plan's life'. The biggest current 'gigaplan' is spending 550 million dollars a year on its missionary work." 13. "We are told that though the Church had 'always had enormous resources', they did not always avail. Sometimes even well-endowed plans came to nothing. For example, in 1918, 336 million dollars were raised and then the plan was destroyed within a week. More recently, a gigaplan which raised 150 million dollars a year collapse (did it?) in 1988 in a sex and management scandal which involved top evangelists. The reference is to Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart of the Assemblies of God." "UNREACHED PEOPLE" 14. " But in spite of this massive effort, there are still 'unreached people', places where the missionaries have not reached or where they have not succeeded. All these people have been 'segmentized' into 'bite-sized chunks' which number 3000. They are placed under 5000 missionaries of special caliber and training, well versed in research, logistics, briefing, monitoring, analyzing and coordinating, and modern communication techniques. CONSIDERING THE NATURE OF THEIR WORK, THEY OPERATE FROM PLACES WHICH ARE POLITICALLY SECURE AND WHICH HAVE MODERN FACILITIES." 15. "The greatest difficulty the missions are facing today is that they are being denied a free run in many areas and face resistance from traditional religions or competing ideologies or NATIONALIST SOURCES. The authors say that until A.D. 1900, 'virtually every country was open to foreign missionaries of one tradition or another', but at present, 'some 65 countries are closed--- - with three more closing their doors every year'. But the missionaries have risen to the occasion and in order to overcome these difficulties, THEY OPERATE A WIDE-SPREAD UNDERHAND APPARATUS WHILE THEIR THEORISTS PROPOUND NEW WAYS AND TRY NEW STRATEGIES FOR PENETRATING THESE AREAS. THAT THESE METHODS INVOLVE MORAL AND LEGAL OBJECTIONS PROVIDES NO DETERRENCE. As the authors put it, in situations where their basic rights as Christian missionaries have been denied, they 'HAVE NOT HESITATED TO OPERATE ILLEGALLY, OR SECRETLY', as all history shows. The EVANGELICAL MISSIONARIES QUARTERLY justifies the subterfuge required of covert missionaries thus: 'GOD DOES NOT LIE, BUT HE DOES KEEP SECRETS'. TRANSLATED INTO THE ETHICAL CODE OF HIS FOLLOWERS, THIS ATTRIBUTE OF JEHOVAH MEANS: ' ASK NO QUESTIONS AND YOU WILL BE TOLD NO LIES'." "SECRET APPARATUS" 16. "Missionaries to these areas or 'TARGET COUNTRIES' are divided into various kinds: TENTMAKER, RESIDENTIAL, CLANDESTINE, MOLE, TOURIST, COURIER, SMUGGLER AND NON-RESIDENTIAL. Each category has a defined status and role. Advantage is taken of the fact that even a country most restrictive of missionaries maintains a variety of contacts with the West- commercial, diplomatic, technical, tourist. Thus men are sent out to these semi-closed countries who openly work in a secular job as technicians, diplomats or social workers BUT ALSO SECRETLY BELONG TO A MISSIONARY AGENCY. SUCH MEN ARE CALLED 'TENTMAKERS', a la St. PAUL, who earned his bread by 'tentmaking' but voluntarily worked as a missionary. This channel is highly organized. For example, 'TENTMAKERS INTERNATIONAL, SEATTLE, WASHINGTON, a Missionary body, runs a 'TENTMAKER PLACEMENT NETWORK', working closely with private and social agencies. It has a list of 15,000 secular jobs for which it recruits 'tentmakers'. 'JOBS ARE AVAILABLE WORLDWIDE. CHOOSE YOUR COUNTRY, TAKE YOUR PICK', it advertises. THEN EVERYTHING BECOMES SECRETIVE. A WARNING IS ISSUED: 'PLEASE USE COMMONSENSE WHEN TALKING ABOUT TENTMAKERS INTERNATIONAL. CONFIDENTIALITY IS A MUST'." 17. "The 'CLANDESTINE' is a full time missionary 'who operates illegally'. In restricted countries, 'much ministry is carried in this way', the authors tell us. The 'MOLE', a word used in certain Intelligence Services, is another such type. He is a 'part time Christian worker, an illegal residential alien'. A 'COURIER' is a 'visitor from abroad who illegally carries messages to, from, and between local Christians and CLANDESTINE workers'. 'TOURISTS' also come in handy for this purpose. Every year more than 100 million Christian foreigners enter these restricted countries, and hundreds of them 'are persuaded to act as COURIERS by Western Agencies', the authors tell us. Another category is 'SMUGGLER', A 'FULL TIME PROFESSIONAL AND SEASONED CHRISTIAN WORKER WHO OPERATES ILLEGALLY AS AN ITINERANT'. One of the most famous of them is Brother Andre author of the best-seller, 'GOD'S SMUGGLER'." 18. "These foreign types have their local counterparts which include categories like 'UNREGISTERED', 'UNDERGROUNDER', 'MESSENGER', 'GUERILLA'. For example, an 'UNDERGROUNDER' is the citizen equivalent of the foreign 'MOLE', a 'MESSENGER' of the alien 'COURIER'. 'Huge underground evangelizing networks exist operated by MESSENGERS utilizing solely word of mouth- no letters, no writing, no telephone', the authors reveal. They also tell us that 'AROUND THE WORLD ARE MANY THOUSAND GUERRILLAS', a category parallel to foreign 'SMUGGLERS'." "MARTYRS". 19 "Sometimes these underhand workers are apprehended and punished; then they join the roaster of 'MARTYRS', who currently number 230,000 a year according to our authors. Two such 'MOLES' or 'SMUGGLERS' were apprehended in Nepal in December 1988. They were Mervyn Budd, 22, a Canadian, and McBride, 33, an American, both working for the U.S.-based Missionary organization, called 'OPERATION MOBILIZATION'. As soon as the news of their arrest was splashed over the world, other sentiments and forces came into play. People forgot to inquire who these two men were and only remembered that they had their 'CIVIL RIGHTS'. Jack Anderson wrote in his weekly column: 'Imagine being thrown in jail for selling religious literature', making McBride's activity as innocent as that. He told us how American Congressmen like Robert Walker and Senators Richard Lugar and Clairborne Pell took an active interest and 'PUT PRESSURE ON THE NEPALESE GOVERNMENT'. AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL WAS ALSO ACTIVE." 20 "WEAK AND POOR COUNTRIES OF THE THIRD WORLD HAVE HARDLY ANY CHANCE AGAINST THESE PRESSURES AND TACTICS. WHILE THE UNO RECOGNIZES THE RIGHTS OF THE MISSIONARIES TO OPERATE THEIR HIGHLY ENDOWED AND SUBVERSIVE APPARATUS, IT OFFERS THE WEAK COUNTRIES NO PROTECTION AGAINST IT."
Posted by: Karkala Joishy Jan 22 2005, 01:19 PM
These filthy missionaries are moving in to use this tragedy to spread their alien religion and spoil the peace. I think the only way to deal with this is what Dara Singh did to Graham Staines. The Shiv Sena should stop wasting their time harrassing Indian Muslims or South Indians, they should pay these missionaries a friendly visit. Same goes to the Bajrang Dal. Our muslims are not the enemy, these missionaries are. Throw them out. All of them.,1,4612744.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true Critics say some Christians spread aid and Gospel By Kim Barker Tribune foreign correspondent Published January 22, 2005 AKKARAIPETTAI, India -- The Christian evangelists came in the morning, wearing fluorescent yellow T-shirts emblazoned with "Believers Church" on the back and "Gospel for Asia" on the front. They loaded up hundreds of villagers, mostly Hindus, in vans and trucks and drove them 6 miles away. There, away from the eyes of village officials, each tsunami survivor received relief supplies--a sleeping mat, a plate, a sari, a 55-pound bag of rice and, in the bottom of a white plastic bag proclaiming "Believers Church Tsunami Relief," a book containing biblical verses warning against the dangers of alcohol. "What do I do?" asked Muthammal, 35, who uses one name like many in southern India and wears the red bindi on her forehead showing she's Hindu. Like many here, she cannot read. "They are asking us to come all this way. It is so difficult." Members of the Believers Church also have handed out Bibles to tsunami survivors on the streets and in relief camps. They set up an orphanage for 108 children, including many Hindus, and asked the children to recite Christian prayers six times a day. The Protestant church did not register the orphanage with the government, authorities said. K.P. Yohannan, the leader of Believers Church and Gospel for Asia, said the church had tried to get government permission. Since the Dec. 26 tsunami killed more than 157,000 people and left millions homeless, relief groups have flooded into Asia, from Sri Lanka to Thailand. As in any crisis, many aid groups are religious, and they consider it their duty to minister to the needy. Most shun proselytizing and make little reference to what they believe. But in parts of Asia, some religious groups have sparked controversy. They are accused of spreading a message as they hand out rice and other supplies. They are accused of exploiting tsunami victims. In Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, Christian groups have been criticized for distributing Bibles in relief camps. A U.S. missionary group, World Help, planned to help raise 300 Muslim children in a Christian children's home in Jakarta, the capital. The project was abandoned after the government protested. An Islamic militant group in the hard-hit Indonesian province of Aceh recruited members as it collected bodies; other Islamic groups handed out thousands of Korans in relief camps. A U.S. group, the International Bible Society, has announced plans to send 100,000 Christian texts, including a book translated into Thai, "When Your Whole World Changes," to survivors, including those in Thailand. Another group, Focus on the Family, prepared 300,000 survival packets including food, water, medicine and the evangelical text "When God Doesn't Make Sense." The group also has announced plans to rebuild destroyed villages in India's Andhra Pradesh as "Christian communities." Gospel for Asia, a Texas-based evangelical group with native missionaries in 10 Asian countries and the phone number 1-800-WIN-ASIA, has dispatched about 1,000 workers to hand out relief aid. A feature on the group's Web site called "Tsunami prayer requests" asks people to pray for, among other things, many opportunities to share the Gospel and "pray that the Lord will bless this amazing opportunity to touch thousands of children's lives with the Gospel." Conversion efforts denied Yohannan said members of the Believers Church and Gospel for Asia were not trying to convert anyone. But if people embraced Christianity after meeting the evangelists, Yohannan would be happy. "We wish everyone would believe in Jesus and love Jesus," he said. In India, fewer people have protested religious relief activities than in Indonesia. Strife among religions is common in India, but such differences have been largely set aside since the disaster. Most Indians are Hindu, but the tsunami hit hardest in an area near holy spots for Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. People also are happy to get anything. They will take Christian texts from Believers Church if it means getting rice. "They are giving it," said Govindaraj, 45, a Hindu from Akkaraipettai. "So we are taking it." The surrounding Nagapattinam area of Tamil Nadu, a coastal fishing district where more than 6,000 people died, now looks like an ad for multiculturalism. Nuns in habits ride around in a white Jeep. Refugees store clothing in cardboard boxes taped with signs from "Eternal Word Ministries Relief Aid." Muslims in T-shirts advertising their religion help pull out trawlers that the tsunami slammed into a bridge. Scientologists try to heal people and help them move on from the tsunami. The children of the village call them "the white people in the yellow dresses," although they are not all white and they wear yellow T-shirts--different from those of the Believers Church--proclaiming "volunteer minister." Most of these groups have had no problems. Many religious leaders say they are only helping people, not spreading religion. "This is not the time to distribute Bibles or preach," said Rev. Franklin of the Church of South India, a Protestant church. Men from the Tamil Nadu Muslim Progress Organization shook the hands of Scientologists, who had trained them in a procedure called a "contact assist," which tries to get people to move on from the time of the tsunami and face their fears. The Believers Church has stirred up more controversy than any action by the Scientologists. Several church members denied handing out Bibles and insisted they were only cleaning up homes. "We have not handed out Bibles," said Anandraj, 25. Later, outside their new orphanage, church members acknowledged they had handed out Bibles and booklets against alcohol and abortion that include biblical verses. They said they had distributed relief materials at the orphanage, rather than in the village, because it was easier and because they did not have enough for everyone. They denied trying to convert anyone. They said they only wanted to help. Local officials displeased But Akkaraipettai officials were upset. They complained that the Christian group did not follow the village procedures for relief agencies and did not help everyone. "We will not accept anyone trying to convert anyone to another religion," said Selvamnattar, the village president, adding that the village was entirely Hindu. "Anyone who wants to help, we welcome it. But we will not allow conversions." The state of Tamil Nadu once banned religious conversions, but that law recently was repealed. Yohannan, the leader of Believers Church and Gospel for Asia, blamed any controversy on Hindu fundamentalists trying to stir up trouble. Many children from Akkaraipettai ended up at the Believers Church orphanage, set up to care for children who lost one or both parents or for children whose parents could not handle their children after the tsunami. Biju, a Believers Church official, said church members recruited children by talking about the orphanage to people in relief camps and villages. "We did not take the children," he said. But the orphanage was set up without knowledge of the government, said Suriyakala, the district's social welfare officer. Inside the orphanage, children seemed happy, playing volleyball, badminton and cricket. Several Hindu children said they were asked to recite Christian prayers six times a day. "As soon as we get up, we pray," said Rajavalli, 13, a Hindu, adding that she had no problem with praying. Members of the church also handed out Tamil-language Bibles, including refugees staying in a railway station. Several said they took the Bible only because it was offered. But Mahalakshmi, 18, who had converted earlier from Hinduism to Christianity, said she was happy to get a Bible. "I understand that to make people understand they have sinned, God has sent this tsunami," she said. "I get peace from reading the Bible and understanding this. Others who don't will continue to suffer."
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 22 2005, 01:54 PM
As India gets slowly richer, more people are pulled out of poverty and this becomes less of an issue The west is also getting slowly poorer, Adventures like Iraq cost a lot of money I hope the neocons go into each islamic country, it sucks up funds available for conversions Next, I have a patented system with field workers in Tamil Nadu and there is a similar program in karnataka Very low cost, high return If interested send me private email G.S
Posted by: Sunder Jan 22 2005, 02:00 PM
Why is RSS/VHP or someone keeping quiet about the fact that Christ is a Myth, and that it's an amalgamation of Mithraism ? An open debate and awareness would be a first step to put the xtians on the defensive. Take the war into their terrain. Challenge their own basis of faith, and that they are giving back something that they borrowed from us.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 22 2005, 03:19 PM
Because as Konrad Elst points out, Most RSS people have a good opinion of Jesus and only hate missionaries Why blame RSS when Sri Sri Ravishankar, Saibaba , Melmaruvathur, Ammachi, RK mission, Swadhyaya, BAPS, Chinmaya mission all praise jesus Why should a hindu get a half jesus from a moron-swami when he can get a full jesus from a missionary Actually counter-breeding not only defeats islam, it also totally defeats xtianity The side effect of xtianity is low fertility And have 5 and you can defeat both islam and xtianity
Posted by: nachiketa Jan 22 2005, 05:40 PM
From the reports I have been reading after the tsunami, I get the feeling that about 50% of some districts in Tamil Nadu might have been converted to Xtianity. Subramanian, is my feeling correct?
Posted by: k.ram Jan 22 2005, 06:04 PM
Critics say some Christians spread aid and Gospel By Kim Barker Tribune foreign correspondent Published January 22, 2005 AKKARAIPETTAI, India -- The Christian evangelists came in the morning, wearing fluorescent yellow T-shirts emblazoned with "Believers Church" on the back and "Gospel for Asia" on the front. They loaded up hundreds of villagers, mostly Hindus, in vans and trucks and drove them 6 miles away. There, away from the eyes of village officials, each tsunami survivor received relief supplies--a sleeping mat, a plate, a sari, a 55-pound bag of rice and, in the bottom of a white plastic bag proclaiming "Believers Church Tsunami Relief," a book containing biblical verses warning against the dangers of alcohol. "What do I do?" asked Muthammal, 35, who uses one name like many in southern India and wears the red bindi on her forehead showing she's Hindu. Like many here, she cannot read. "They are asking us to come all this way. It is so difficult." Members of the Believers Church also have handed out Bibles to tsunami survivors on the streets and in relief camps. They set up an orphanage for 108 children, including many Hindus, and asked the children to recite Christian prayers six times a day. The Protestant church did not register the orphanage with the government, authorities said. K.P. Yohannan, the leader of Believers Church and Gospel for Asia, said the church had tried to get government permission. Since the Dec. 26 tsunami killed more than 157,000 people and left millions homeless, relief groups have flooded into Asia, from Sri Lanka to Thailand. As in any crisis, many aid groups are religious, and they consider it their duty to minister to the needy. Most shun proselytizing and make little reference to what they believe. But in parts of Asia, some religious groups have sparked controversy. They are accused of spreading a message as they hand out rice and other supplies. They are accused of exploiting tsunami victims. In Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim country, Christian groups have been criticized for distributing Bibles in relief camps. A U.S. missionary group, World Help, planned to help raise 300 Muslim children in a Christian children's home in Jakarta, the capital. The project was abandoned after the government protested. An Islamic militant group in the hard-hit Indonesian province of Aceh recruited members as it collected bodies; other Islamic groups handed out thousands of Korans in relief camps. A U.S. group, the International Bible Society, has announced plans to send 100,000 Christian texts, including a book translated into Thai, "When Your Whole World Changes," to survivors, including those in Thailand. Another group, Focus on the Family, prepared 300,000 survival packets including food, water, medicine and the evangelical text "When God Doesn't Make Sense." The group also has announced plans to rebuild destroyed villages in India's Andhra Pradesh as "Christian communities." Gospel for Asia, a Texas-based evangelical group with native missionaries in 10 Asian countries and the phone number 1-800-WIN-ASIA, has dispatched about 1,000 workers to hand out relief aid. A feature on the group's Web site called "Tsunami prayer requests" asks people to pray for, among other things, many opportunities to share the Gospel and "pray that the Lord will bless this amazing opportunity to touch thousands of children's lives with the Gospel." Conversion efforts denied Yohannan said members of the Believers Church and Gospel for Asia were not trying to convert anyone. But if people embraced Christianity after meeting the evangelists, Yohannan would be happy. "We wish everyone would believe in Jesus and love Jesus," he said. In India, fewer people have protested religious relief activities than in Indonesia. Strife among religions is common in India, but such differences have been largely set aside since the disaster. Most Indians are Hindu, but the tsunami hit hardest in an area near holy spots for Hinduism, Islam and Christianity. People also are happy to get anything. They will take Christian texts from Believers Church if it means getting rice. "They are giving it," said Govindaraj, 45, a Hindu from Akkaraipettai. "So we are taking it." The surrounding Nagapattinam area of Tamil Nadu, a coastal fishing district where more than 6,000 people died, now looks like an ad for multiculturalism. Nuns in habits ride around in a white Jeep. Refugees store clothing in cardboard boxes taped with signs from "Eternal Word Ministries Relief Aid." Muslims in T-shirts advertising their religion help pull out trawlers that the tsunami slammed into a bridge. Scientologists try to heal people and help them move on from the tsunami. The children of the village call them "the white people in the yellow dresses," although they are not all white and they wear yellow T-shirts--different from those of the Believers Church--proclaiming "volunteer minister." Most of these groups have had no problems. Many religious leaders say they are only helping people, not spreading religion. "This is not the time to distribute Bibles or preach," said Rev. Franklin of the Church of South India, a Protestant church. Men from the Tamil Nadu Muslim Progress Organization shook the hands of Scientologists, who had trained them in a procedure called a "contact assist," which tries to get people to move on from the time of the tsunami and face their fears. The Believers Church has stirred up more controversy than any action by the Scientologists. Several church members denied handing out Bibles and insisted they were only cleaning up homes. "We have not handed out Bibles," said Anandraj, 25. Later, outside their new orphanage, church members acknowledged they had handed out Bibles and booklets against alcohol and abortion that include biblical verses. They said they had distributed relief materials at the orphanage, rather than in the village, because it was easier and because they did not have enough for everyone. They denied trying to convert anyone. They said they only wanted to help. Local officials displeased But Akkaraipettai officials were upset. They complained that the Christian group did not follow the village procedures for relief agencies and did not help everyone. "We will not accept anyone trying to convert anyone to another religion," said Selvamnattar, the village president, adding that the village was entirely Hindu. "Anyone who wants to help, we welcome it. But we will not allow conversions." The state of Tamil Nadu once banned religious conversions, but that law recently was repealed. Yohannan, the leader of Believers Church and Gospel for Asia, blamed any controversy on Hindu fundamentalists trying to stir up trouble. Many children from Akkaraipettai ended up at the Believers Church orphanage, set up to care for children who lost one or both parents or for children whose parents could not handle their children after the tsunami. Biju, a Believers Church official, said church members recruited children by talking about the orphanage to people in relief camps and villages. "We did not take the children," he said. But the orphanage was set up without knowledge of the government, said Suriyakala, the district's social welfare officer. Inside the orphanage, children seemed happy, playing volleyball, badminton and cricket. Several Hindu children said they were asked to recite Christian prayers six times a day. "As soon as we get up, we pray," said Rajavalli, 13, a Hindu, adding that she had no problem with praying. Members of the church also handed out Tamil-language Bibles, including refugees staying in a railway station. Several said they took the Bible only because it was offered. But Mahalakshmi, 18, who had converted earlier from Hinduism to Christianity, said she was happy to get a Bible. "I understand that to make people understand they have sinned, God has sent this tsunami," she said. "I get peace from reading the Bible and understanding this. Others who don't will continue to suffer."
Posted by: Mudy Jan 22 2005, 07:15 PM
I get the feeling that about 50% of some districts in Tamil Nadu might have been converted to Xtianity
Nope, People are very smart now.
Posted by: G.Subramaniam Jan 22 2005, 07:52 PM
The official census xtian count is 6% xtian The real census count including crypto-xtians is about 10% In Kanyakumari, xtians are 48%, possibly 55% including cryptos The xtians have a tabulation of converts per caste Nadars = 30% Dalits = 30% Vanniyars = 15% The real problem is not rice xtianity in tamil nadu In 2003, I did not see a single beggar in Chennai The problem is inculturation, Disguising as hindu swamis etc Thats why I hate moron-swamis who praise jesus
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 22 2005, 11:25 PM
For a 52-year-old man, the Benny Hinn event was not a fortunate one. He reportedly died of cardiac arrest at the venue on Saturday evening, reports DHNS, Bangalore. According to police, the wheelchair-bound man, a heart patient, had come to get healed along with scores of people. The victim suffered an attack and died even as the evangelist commenced the healing service, a police officer said. However, the organisers were evasive about the incident. They said, “He was administered first-aid and then taken in an ambulance to a nearby hospital for treatment. We know nothing more”. But the police confirmed seeing the man die of cardiac arrest.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 22 2005, 11:29 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 22 2005, 11:40 PM
Those happy outside Bangalore for being spared the shenanigans of Benny Hinn's so-called 'faith healing', better watch out. Another rabidly communal Christian team is touring India these days. Its mission? To visit prominent Hindu temples in India and pray for its destruction. Sounds too radical? Well, the missionaries of Southern Baptist, who are behind this mission, are always. The website of the International Mission Board (IMB), a branch of the infamous Southern Baptist Convention, has called for American Southern Baptist missionaries to visit Hindu temples in India and pray for its destruction. The mission assignment entitled 'Jericho Prayerwalk' (The missionary assignment can be viewed online at: has called for missionaries to visit 'one of the holiest temples' once a day (at differing times) to walk around the complex praying specifically that the walls will collapse like the walls of Jericho in Joshua. In other words, missionaries should pray that all the local Hindus convert to Christianity and that their temple will be destroyed. In the past, the Southern Baptist Convention distributed 30,000 copies of a handbook just before Deepavali (in 1999), stating that 'Hindus seek power and blessing through the worship of gods and goddesses and the demonic powers that lay behind them.' The missionaries are set to arrive in India by 31 January. The whole programme will continue till 31 December. Obviously, these people are prepared for a long-drawn mission. So, from next week, if you find some firangi type praying in a temple, you can understand that his intention is anything but holy.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 22 2005, 11:51 PM
After a long gap, a man who claims to have the power to heal the sick and dying has surfaced on the Indian shores. The man is none other than a controversial Pastor Benny Hinn. This 51-year-old Arab-Israeli who became a Canadian and then an American and the Founder of World Outreach Centre, Florida in the United States of America. But this self-styled Godman's claims, though never proved, have always kicked up a row and this time he is in a centre of controversy because his new stop in the name of evangelism is India. He is organising a massive programme 'Pray for India' in Bangalore on Jan. 21 to 23. Even the Chief Minister N. Dharam Singh has ruled out any ban on Hinn's meet in Bangalore on Jan. 15 saying the Government has no right to intervene in religious affairs. Religion and politics Whatever it is, now it is certain that, afterall, religion cannot be separated from politics. This can be further confirmed as the Congress Supremo Sonia Gandhi, has allowed six Chief Ministers from Congress-ruled States to attend Benny Hinn's programme. Noted litterateur Dr. S.L. Bhyrappa came down heavily on the proposed "Pray for India" meet of Benny Hinn while supporting the stand taken by Bhajrang Dal in opposing such a controversial meet. He was speaking at the function held here yesterday in a workshop of his works. When the reporters asked him about the Government being soft on Benny Hinn, Dr. Bhyrappa said, "When the Chief Ministers of six Congress-ruled States are attending at the behest of their 'madam,' it is confirmed that Sonia Gandhi is behind this move." "Christian missionaries have billions of dollars, donated by rich Christian nations, to be used for the conversion of the gullible into Christianity. They believe that conversion is their religion and whenever they open a school or even a hospital, their only intention is conversion. I have experienced this when I wrote the novel Dharmashree about how Christians use their religion to convert saying Jesus Christ is responsible for everything," Dr. Bhyrappa regretted. Wholesale curer! Continuing his assault on the alleged conversion programmes of Christians, Dr. Bhyrappa said 'Missionaries go house-to-house in the beginning, then bring gullible and poor housewives to show miracles. They may treat one in a million, which is nothing but pure luck. May be those missionaries did miracles on few individuals but this Benny Hinn is a 'wholesale curer'!" When asked why the people's representatives should recognise themselves with these controversial religious figures, Dr. Bhyrappa shot back, "When the 'madam' herself is supporting this idea, how can her confidantes stay behind? That is the very reason how Benny Hinn is given such a high standing and has the audacity to pray for India.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 23 2005, 10:12 PM
Hinn 'Cured' Only Volunteers Not Patients Star of Mysore Bangalore, Jan. 23 2005 A Fact Finding Committee has exposed that those who publicly announced that their illnesses were cured by the grace of Christ in the prayer meeting of the evangelist Benny Hinn were only his volunteers. The volunteers who had mingled with the people in the large gathering to take part in the prayer meeting, rushed to the raised dais soon after Benny Hinn's show started and also openly declared that they were suffering from specific illnesses which were cured by him, the Committee revealed. The team members who also gained entry into the prayer meeting posing themselves as devotees of Benny Hinn on Friday, the first day of the series of prayer meetings, first noticed the presence of his volunteers. The Committee members also found out that the volunteers, who could be seen everywhere among the large audience, were none other than the volunteers of the evangelist keeping company with him after dusk. Benny Hinn is reported to start his show while the people in the large gathering were made to experience increased heart-beats due to loud music blaring through the speakers. He makes dramatic declaration saying 'Christ has come. He is entering your body. You have now acquired a rare kind of strength', the study team is learnt to have said. "Immediately after Benny Hinn touches the 'patients' and declares that their illnesses will be cured, the volunteers spread widely among the people gathered at the prayer meeting behave in an excited manner. They also weep uncontrollably and scream", the study team has said. "In response to the command of Benny Hinn to those who have been cured to come to the dais and announce their experiences, the volunteers rush there and make many statements such as 'I got my sight', 'I am cured of cancer, 'I got back my ability to walk', 'my heart ailment has been cured' and so on", the study has revealed. Although the behaviour of the volunteers influences the bystanders, it is only the weak-minded ones who will believe what they see and hear. The rest are divided equally between believers and non-believers, according to the study team.
Posted by: Sunder Jan 23 2005, 11:23 PM Controversial American evangelist Benny Hinn wound up his India trip after thousands of people attended his prayer meeting just outside Bangalore on Sunday night. Hinn claimed that he had cured several people of ailments with the blessings of Jesus Christ, but hundreds of disabled and sick people returned disappointed, without getting any remedy. "I love India and I will come back to India," Hinn said, adding that his ministry, based in Bangalore, would hold a similar congregation in February 2006 at Hyderabad. A doctor, meanwhile, lodged a police complaint against Hinn and the organisers of the show, seeking action for what he said was the death of a man due to cardiac arrest after being pushed by Hinn on the stage on Saturday. The Karnataka government, which was under attack by the Bharatiya Janata Party for allowing Hinn to hold the three-day event, had made elaborate security arrangements, deploying nearly 10,000 personnel. Scores of buses were damaged on Friday in a bandh called by the Hindu Jagarana Vedike, alleging that the prayer meet was aimed at "conversion".
Posted by: Mudy Jan 24 2005, 10:26 AM
Some inmates had surrounded a Christian priest and two nuns, and a war of words was going on. "We are Hindus and we want to live as Hindus. Why do you want to convert us?" some young men shouted at the missionaries. The priest said, "We are not here to convert people. We were only offering prayers for your peace of mind." But flashing some pamphlets distributed among them by the three, the inmates snorted, "What does this mean?" The priest had no answer. "Why do you enter our houses and pray?," they asked. "Your nuns do this when our women are alone at home. We know how to pray." The young men were extremely furious. The priest was unruffled. But the nuns were shaken by the sudden surge of animosity from the muscular men. The scuffle went on till the three were forced to leave the place. Day two: As I was visiting the areas close to the sea that were badly affected by the tsunami waves, I saw another angry scene outside another temple in another village. Police jeeps were seen parked outside the temple in Samandapettai. So was a van. Villagers were complaining to the police about a missionary group to which the van belonged. They said the group had taken away to another place their belongings and the relief they had got from nongovernmental organisations and the government, which they had kept inside the temple, because they refused to listen to its missionaries. "They want to try their luck at some other place. Since we resisted, they took away our things. We won't allow this to happen," they said. "Why don't you arrest all of them?" the villagers asked the police. The villagers' torrent of angry words continued. "We have lost everything to the sea. They said they would help us if we followed their religion. What logic is this? Are they here to help us or change our religion?" The police couldn't cool their tempers. The group said it did not take away the belongings of the villagers and insisted that the contents inside the van belonged to it. That evening, some villagers came with the news that the police had arrested the priest they had confronted the previous day. Apparently some angry villagers had gheraoed him, and forced the police to arrest him. "He shouldn't be doing this when we are grieving, when we are suffering. Everything has its time and place," a villager said. When I wanted to talk to the panchayat president and locals of the Karakkalmedu village at Karaikkal, they called me inside the village temple. That was where they met outsiders. The temple has become the centre of activity in the village. Before we started talking, one of them opened the door to the sanctum sanctorum and pointed to a mark left by the strong tsunami waves. They told me that water stopped at the feet of their deity and then receded. "We might have suffered, but our Goddess saved us." This belief had taken the villagers all the more closer to their deity. "That is why it hurts us when others come and tell us that it was because of our God and our belief that we suffered. We won't let anyone exploit us when we are down," the panchayat members asserted.
Posted by: LSrini Jan 24 2005, 10:53 AM
Dayanand Saraswati and AIM for Seva have formed a Tsunami co-ordination commitee for relief. We should bring this conversion incident to their attention. Hopefully they can help these affected hindus. G.Subramaniam is probably our man for this.
Posted by: Viren Jan 24 2005, 11:00 AM
Tsunami tests secular dogmas Tsunami victims of Samanthapettai near the temple town of Madurai saw the dark side of Christian charity as missionaries stomped out of their village without distributing relief after residents refused their faith-for-food deal (ANI, 16 January 2005). The 200-odd homeless villagers, coping with hunger, trauma and disease, felt blessed when trucks with food, clothes and medicines moved into the village. But when the nuns insisted that they convert before accepting a minimal diet of biscuits and water, the villagers recoiled with distaste. Hot words were exchanged, but the adamant missionaries beat back local attempts to acquire the relief material and quit with their supplies intact when television crews arrived on the scene by chance. Unfortunately, the Union Government has taken no cognisance of missionary attempts to prey upon hapless tsunami victims, and reports suggest that missionary groups are getting disproportionate control over distribution of relief supplies. That is why missionaries checkmated in Indonesia are rushing to Chennai. As is now well-known, the US-based World Help was forced to abandon plans to put 50 Muslim children in a Christian orphanage near Jakarta because the Indonesian Government said: "Muslim children should not be raised in a non-Muslim home." The Council on American-Islamic Relations added: "This confirms some of our worst fears that certain missionary groups would exploit the tragedy and the earthquake to enter into these areas and convert people through use of a disproportionate power relationship. How many incidents of this type are taking place that we don't hear about?" Indonesia has banned foreign adoptions of orphans to allay fears of possible child-smuggling or abuse following the tragedy. In Aceh, dozens of Western Christian groups have moved in to help and convert victims, triggering enormous tension and impeding relief to nearly six lakh homeless people. The Indonesian Council of Ulemas says using aid to spread religion is wrong, and warns that the "Muslim community will not remain quiet. This is a clear statement and it is serious." But Americans are born-again religious imperialists; evangelist Mark Kosinski insisted: "These people need food but they also need Jesus. God is trying to awaken people and help them realise salvation is in Christ." World Help has now turned towards India, where (its website announced) "God is overcoming hundreds of years of false religions and idol worship." Such despicable language surely amounts to hate speech under American laws. The United Nations, which avers respect for all faiths, also needs to take cognisance of such abusive practices. Sadly, World Help is confident that India's votebank-conscious politicians will permit evangelisation under the pretext of religious freedom, as recently witnessed in the facilitation of the Benny Hinn sham show in Bangalore. Its president Rev. Vernon Brewer described the Indonesian orphanage plans as really "no different than what Mother Theresa did by taking Hindu orphan children and placing them in a Roman Catholic children's home in Calcutta, and she won the Nobel Peace Prize for doing that". This is an eloquent comment on the political-cultural underpinnings of the Nobel, and Indian politicians panting for it should accept that getting it involves sacrificing critical national interests. Western determination to make the world Christian calls for scrutiny of the idea of "secularism". Many Indians lazily swallow Western propaganda that secularism is separation of Church (religion) from State (public realm); that Western nations are superior because they practice this policy; and that secularism is a universal value. In truth, secularism is only a tactical ceasefire negotiated between warring Christian denominations in blood-stained Europe. The privileges of secularism (State restraint from murder and mayhem against different sects) did cover other faiths entering Christian lands. But the rising anti-Jewish sentiment in France (birthplace of all Western "universal" values) should make us understand the basically intra-Christian nature of this concept. Islam did not produce a truce among Islamic sects, and continues to be plagued by sectarian strife. Islamic tolerance of other creeds is notoriously deficient. Hindu leaders have mindlessly accepted Western categories of thought and imposed artificial definitions upon society. The Vedic categories of "Vasudev kutumbukum" (the world is one family) and "Ekam sat, vipraha bahuda vadanti" (there is one Truth, wise men call it differently) have been distorted to harm community interests and need a proper explanation. To begin with, the monotheistic traditions were unknown to India when these pristine thoughts were enunciated. The Vedic seers validated all thoughts, divinities, and sacred symbols revered within the geo-cultural matrix of India, and bound them into the fabled unity and continuity of the Indic tradition. Does Vedic tolerance bestow spiritual equality to monotheistic faiths? Our ethos does not label any spiritual quest as "false religion" (whatever that means). Yet Hindu dharma is implicitly at odds with monotheistic intolerance. Accepting Christianity or Islam involves hating our own dharma (as secular intellectuals and politicians do), and shunning the other monotheism, as both demand exclusive adherence! Soon our "tolerant" secularists will be forced to choose between Islam and Christianity, as evangelisers up the ante in the contest for souls (read holy warriors). Much of the current tension in Indian society is on account of "secular" politicians mollycoddling the two monotheisms and suppressing legitimate Hindu aspirations. While secularism in a Hindu context permits the existence of other faiths, it cannot tolerate negation of Hindu identity and culture. Dharma demands that spiritual paths that refuse to coexist and seek actively to destroy others must be repelled. Secularists will claim a multi-religious society cannot privilege a particular tradition, but this is the reality all over the world. The German State collects taxes for two major Christian groups (non-Christians are exempt). It also provides religious lessons at school for the two Christian sects. America is famously non-neutral in matters of religion. The dollar proclaims: "In God we trust" and the Pledge of Allegiance invokes God. In South Carolina, Protestantism is State religion and the election of clergy is part of the State election process. The constitution of Pennsylvania advocates religious work for building human virtues. In Britain, the Church of England is the official Church and the monarch is its head. To this day, a Catholic or anyone who marries a Catholic cannot claim the throne. In Scotland, the general assembly of the Presbyterian Church is the supreme legislative and judicial body. Higher echelons of priesthood automatically become members of the upper house of the British Parliament and thus participate in the legislative process. In Japan, Buddhism was the state religion from the sixth century until 1934, when a military coup restored the original Shinto as state religion. The 1945 constitution separated religion and state, but Shinto priests continue to preside over all public and private ceremonies. These are all nations that India respects. Within the country, however, we find that in Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Andhra Pradesh, most cash-rich temples are controlled by State Governments. The contributions made by devotees are taken by the State treasury, and the Hindu community is deprived. Not only are donations to churches and mosques untouched, but the contributions of Hindu laity are diverted for upkeep of churches and mosques, and even finance the infamous Haj subsidy! Indian secularism thus discriminates against Hindu dharma and Hindu aspirations. It is high time we liberate ourselves from this false secularism and give due respect to ourselves and our native ethos.
Posted by: bgravi Jan 24 2005, 02:10 PM
More loyal than the queen Francois Gautier Something terribly wrong is going on in India. On the one hand, there is the Shankaracharya, one of the most venerated Hindu leaders, arrested like an ordinary criminal on one of the most sacred days of the Hindus. On the other, politicians such as Mr Lalu Prasad Yadav, who have more corruption cases against them than anybody else - and certain others who may even have some blood on their hands - are made ministers and are strutting around with security guards in tow. The tarnishing of the image of the Kancheepuram mutt is nearly complete. Will it ever be able to recover its sanctity, even if the Shankaracharya is found not guilty? On the other hand, there is a quack like American evangelist Benny Hinn, who even in the United States has no standing, but can come to India, a country with an overwhelming Hindu majority, to deride idol worship and paganism and convert the poor and the gullible. We see former ministers and ex-prime ministers - many of them Hindus - coming to Benny Hinn live on TV, with bowed heads and folded hands like beggars asking for the White Man's grace. We see the entire state machinery of Karnataka put to the service of the evangelist while all the laws are subverted so that he can conduct his fake show. We see how, when 58 innocent men, women and children were burnt alive in the most horrible manner in Godhra, for no other reason than being Hindus, that there is not even respect for their memory, for the truth is now twisted for political purposes with the help of India's Marxists who want the death of Hinduism. Hindus are always accused of all the ills and intolerance, but where else in the world will you find a Christian supreme leader in a country with only three per cent Christians, a Sikh Prime Minister when there are only two per cent Sikhs, and a Muslim President with only 10 per cent Muslims? I am a Westerner and a born Christian, but I am ashamed of what has been happening in the country ever since Ms Sonia Gandhi, also a Westerner and a Christian, has become the de facto ruler of this ancient and extraordinary country of 850 million Hindus and 125 million Muslims. For, what is happening is an insult to India's culture, greatness and intelligence. Even more saddening is the passivity of Indians in the face of the developments. For only a few voices have been raised in these moments of insanity. India's curse is the disunity amongst its Hindus, and their infighting. One is even surprised at the lack of reaction from the top Hindu spiritual leaders of India: Satya Sai Baba, Amrita Anandamayi and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. Together they hold sway on at least 400 million Hindus. Why don't they form a Supreme Spiritual Conclave along with the Shankara-charya? They have only to say one word and it will be followed. But even amongst them there is disunity. Who will save India, then? Certainly not the Congress, which was incapable of finding a worthy Indian leader amongst its own members, many of whom are intelligent and sincere. By stooping down to Ms Sonia Gandhi, they have repeated the same old story of India's ancient princes and maharajas betraying each other and bowing down to a foreign ruler, be it Aurangzeb, or His Majesty's Viceroy. Who betrayed the mighty empire of Vijaynagar, the last great Hindu kingdom, to Muslims? Who betrayed India to the British? Who is betraying India today? But at least the Congress is true to its ideals. The biggest culprit must be the party which, in five years of power, did nothing except project a Gandhian image of itself, rather than having India's interests at heart. Not have to say or do anything. She does not have to instruct the Tamil Nadu Police to arrest the Shankaracharya, or tell the Chief Minister of Karnataka, Mr Dharam Singh, to attend Benny Hinn's show. By just being where she is, at the top of India's political hierarchy, she is able to ensure that her silent wishes are fulfilled. Everybody is bending over backwards to please her, even anticipating her wishes! I have nothing personally against Ms Sonia Gandhi. She was a good wife to her husband, a good daughter to her mother-in-law, and is doubtless a good mother to her children. Many accounts have come of her dignity, grace and concern for others. But what does Ms Gandhi really stand for, as the Eminence Grise of this country, the person who is drawing all the strings behind the scene? The Benny Hinn show points to not only a renewed effort at Christianisation of India (something which even the British and the Portuguese could not do), and a targeting of Hindus and Hindu spiritual leaders, but also at the Westernisation of the subcontinent. India will then become just another nation cloning the West. Even Muslims and Christians in India, who are like no other Christians and Muslims in the world, would lose something. How sad that this is happening at a time when the West is looking for other spiritual answers to its problems and the Church is in decline there. The only silver lining in the whole story is that these events - whether the arrest of the Shankaracharya, the Benny Hinn show, or the rewriting of Godhra - may open the eyes of Indians. It may be that India needs to go through this painful process, to see the forces that have been unleashed when Indians chose someone who is basically hostile to the majority culture of this country as their leader. Maybe they need to be faced with a Government which is pulling India down, just to please the minorities, the Vatican and the Western powers who do not want India to emerge as a strong and vibrant nation. Nobody seems to understand that India's unique identity, its Sanatan dharma, which survived so many onslaughts in its long history, is today under mortal threat. Cry my Beloved India, Look what Thy children have done to Thee.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 24 2005, 04:57 PM
Bangaloreans need to be congratulated on a good show..
Jai Shree Ram, Even though the 'Prayer Meeting' was conducted amidst tight security, we have been successful in exposing that Fraud and creating an atmospere of resentment and Opposition amongst the public in Bangalore/Karnataka. The link in the attachment gives the details of various newspaper reports . Our Movement against Christian conversion was well received by all Quarters including Print Media, Electronic media, Poojya Swamijis, Medical Faculty, Advocates, Thinkers & Social Leaders, and even Leftists. We started the anti-Binn(anti0Conversion) movement in Bangalore with 8 teams, each consisting of 5-6 people. following are some details. Thinkers and writers like Jnanapeeta awardee Prof. U. r. Ananthamurthy, noted critic sumatheendra Nadig, Dr. chidananda murthy, Music Director C. Ashwath, Arya Samaj, Aurobindo Ashram, Art of Living, Dr. S L Byrappa, including Leftist G K govindarao, participated in one or the symposiums/protests The news papers were full of anti-Hinn articles. On some days, detailed articles were published against his unscientific methods of healing, how he is a fraud etc. The electronic media, particularly kannada TV channels were very cooperative. e-TV kannada channel telecasted 4 episodes in their popular 'CRIME STORY' which reached villages/common man. All the content for the above were given our teams including Video tapes from CNBC/HBO and various articles available in internet. The H'ble Courts also passed 4 orders putting restrictions on the event including total video taping of the entire event. The Evangelist had to modify the program and started the program with National anthem ! The crowd on the first day was less than a Lakh as per Deccan Herald and IE. The Bangalore Bundh was almost Total. The area near jakkur was like warfield. on the 2nd 3rd days also, we had deputed 20 volunteers to count the audience. The crowd was between 90,000 to 1,00,000. This is against their claim of 3 millions! We will continue our efforts in stopping religious conversions and arrange for 'Ghar Vapsi' programs in Bangalore. Dhanyavad Mohankumar Bangalore
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 25 2005, 09:08 AM
Posted by: LSrini Jan 25 2005, 10:51 AM
Now Staines gets an award!!! Can Hinn be too far behind????
Padma awards for JN Dixit, SRK, Gladys Staines Pioneer News Service/ New Delhi Cine star Shahrukh Khan, late National Security Advisor J N Dixit, eminent cartoonist R K Laxman, Wipro chairman Azim Premji, Hindustan Times vice chairperson Shobhana Bhartia and social worker Gladys Staines are among the 96 people who have been conferred with the 2005 Padma awards. President A P J Abdul Kalam approved names of nine persons for this year's Padma Vibushan awards which included Laxman, Dixit, Attorney General Milon Kumar Benerji, former Sadar-e-Riyasat of Jammu and Kashmir Karan Singh and noted social worker Mohan Dharia. The other recipients of Padma Vibushan included Dr Bal Krishan Goyal for medicine, Bhai Mohan Singh for trade and industry, Dr M V S Valiathan for medicine and Ram Narayan for his contribution in the field of arts in Maharashtra. As many as 30 people, including renowned dental surgeon Anil Kohli, former J&K Governor Girish Chander Saxena, former J&K Chief Minister Syed Mir Qassim and noted cardiologist Tarlochan Singh Kler were awarded the Padma Bhushan. Dr Kler, director of Cath lab & arrhythmia services of Escorts Heart Institute and Research Centre, New Delhi hails from Amargarh village in Punjab. Other Padma Bhushan awardee included A Ramachandran, Dr Andre Beteille, Mr Azim Premji (Trade and Industry), Mr Balraj Puri, Dr Brijmohan Lall Munjal, Chandi Prasad Bhatt, Mr G V Ramakrishna, Dr Hari Mohan, Prof Irfan Habib, Prof K Srinath Reddy, Ms Kiran Majumdar Shaw, Mr M T Vasudevan Nair, Mr Mrinal Miri, Dr Mrinal Datta Chaudhuri, Dr Narasimhiah Seshagiri, Mr Probodh Chandra Dey alias Manna Dey, Ms Qurratulain Hyder, Prof Romila Thapar, Mr S R Sankaran, Dr Sardar Anjum, Late Syed Mir Qasim, Mr T R Satish Chandran, Prof Valangiman Subramanian Ramamurthy, Mr Varaprasad K Reddy, Mr William Mark Tully, Mr Yash Chopra, Dr Yusuf Khwaja Hamied, The President approved a total of 57 people for Padma Shri awrds, who included Amin Kamil, Prof Amiya Kumar Bagchi, Anil Kumble, Chouksey, Prof Bhagavatula Dattaguru, Bilat Paswan Vihangam, Chaturbhuj Meher, Dr Cyrus Soli Poonawalla, Prof Darchhawna, D. Dipankar Banerjee, Dr G Bakthavathsalam, Gadul Singh Lama, Gambhini Devi Yumlembam, Ustad Ghulam Sadiq Khan, Gladys Staines, Gurbachan Singh Randhawa, Hema Bharali, Indira Jaisingh, Dr J M Hans, Dr Jagtar Singh Grewal, K C Reddy, Kanaksen Deka, Kavita Subramaniam Krishnamurti, Guru Kedarnath Sahu, Komala Varadan, Krishnan Nair Santhakumari Chitra, Kumkum Mohanty Kunnakudi R Vaidyanathan, Kuntgod Vibhuti Subbanna, Rev (Dr) Lalsawma, Dr Lavu Narendranath, Prof Madhu Sudan Kanungo, Dr Mahadevappa Madappa, Mammen Mathew, Manas Chaudhuri, Manuel Santana, Mehrunnisa Parvez, Muzaffar Ali, Nana Chudasama, Dr P N Vasudeva Kurup, Pullela Gopichand, Puna Ram Nishad, Puran Chand Wadali, Ms Rachel Thomas, Maj Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore, Swami Ram Swaroop Sharma, Shah Rukh Khan, Shameem Dev Azad, Dr Shantaram Balwant Mujumdar, Shobhana Bhartia, Sougaijam Thanil Singh, Srikumar Banerjee, Sunita Narain, Sushil Sahai, Theilin Phanbuh, Vasudevan Gnana Gandhi, and Prof Veer Singh Mehta.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 25 2005, 10:58 AM
Big winners for Padma awards are COMMIES and LIARS thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
Posted by: Mudy Jan 25 2005, 06:42 PM The proselytising zeal of American missionaries knows no slack even in tsunami aid
World Help has printed 1,00,000 Bibles in Bhojpuri, a language it glibly assumes was hidden from evangelists. "Imagine a group of 90 million people who have never been able to read God's Word in their own language until just recently. What an incredible opportunity God is giving us to provide Bibles for the Bhojpuri for the very first time!" declares its mission statement. (Not quite an accurate claim: Bible work in Bhojpuri is nearly a century old in India, even older if you count work targeted at the diaspora.) Yet, the statement goes on: "Our strategy for the next seven years is to plant 1,00,000 organised churches and 1 million house churches in the least-reached area of the world...specifically in the North India(n) state of Uttar Pradesh." This January, World Help is sending a mission to India "where God is overcoming hundreds of years of false religions and idol worship. In...Allahabad alone, 40,000 new believers now meet weekly to worship the one true God." Another group, Samaritan's Purse, has also energised around the tsunami tragedy. Headed by Franklin Graham, son of presidential godman Billy Graham, this North Carolina-based group's helicopter is helping ferry victims from inaccessible areas. Graham, who appears on his website in a leather jacket more suited to Mick Jagger, called Islam an "evil and wicked" religion after the 9/11 attacks. While organising relief for the tsunami victims, Graham told The Baltimore Sun, "If we are going to depend on Muslims to go in and help Muslims, well, they aren't coming." He publicly hoped the victims and their kin "would come to know the God I know", which to some was an admission of the larger purpose. He has left for Indonesia with a planeload of relief supplies. Graham sees India as a "vast subcontinent" where Samaritan's Purse projects are "helping bring the gospel to thousands living in spiritual darkness". However, Don Norrington, a spokesman for Graham, told Outlook that proselytisation, which he called an "inflammatory word", was not the group's policy. Currently, it is working in partnership with local Indian affiliates to rebuild a fishing village. The strategy allows US groups to maintain a safe distance from "conversions" while local groups do the work. But the 2003 annual report of Samaritan's Purse announces that in India it "completed 10 church buildings, with another four under construction, and provided support for pastors, Bible schools, Christian schools and a daycare centre". "(Such) proselytisation demeans conversion, for it uses helplessness to spread a religion," says Prof Ashutosh Varshney. Mission statements are generally explicit about their goals. Samaritan's Purse says it "serves the Church worldwide to promote the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ". The World Help website, which opens with a heart-wrenching photo of a crying Indian woman, lists its mission as "effective evangelism, discipleship, church planting, humanitarian aid, child sponsorship, leadership training and literature distribution". A specific appeal, scrubbed clean last week from the site, sought help to place Indonesian orphans so "their faith in Christ could become the foothold to reach the Aceh people". "This kind of proselytisation demeans the idea of religious conversion, for it uses helplessness to spread a religion," says Ashutosh Varshney, political science professor at Michigan University. "A genuine change in conviction remains the best basis for religious conversion and should not be stopped. Few people in abysmal distress can exercise sound judgement." John Hare, a professor at the Yale University's school of divinity, says in general Christian groups regard providing relief as part of Christian service. "They don't make a distinction between relief and spreading the gospel. But if they're using aid as leverage in acceptance of the gospel, it is inconsistent with what Christians believe," he said. Sid Balman, a spokesman for InterAction, a coalition of 160 US relief organisations which raised nearly $200 million for tsunami aid, said its charter doesn't prohibit proselytisation but does ask members to respect local norms and abide by laws. Asked how they monitored member groups, Balman said the "only way it would work is if someone complained", an unlikely prospect unless another organised religion gets into the act. At least 30 per cent of the groups in InterAction are faith-based, some Jewish and Muslim. When religious passions are high, it's important to analyse the role of all religious fundamentalists. While Muslim extremists are commonly denounced in the US media, Christian hardliners are rarely challenged. Leading evangelists routinely smear other religions, specially Islam, on mainstream networks and still receive grants from President George Bush. Jerry Falwell, founder of Moral Majority, called Prophet Mohammad "a terrorist" on CBS on October 6, 2002. The insult sparked a riot all the way out in Solapur, India, killing eight people and injuring 90 others. At a time when America is increasingly viewed as waging a war against the Muslim world, hateful speech and charity with an ambiguous agenda from zealous Christians can only add to the tension.
Posted by: k.ram Jan 26 2005, 09:20 AM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 29 2005, 01:54 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 31 2005, 01:59 PM Its almost scary..
Posted by: rajesh_g Feb 3 2005, 10:45 AM
Posted by: rajesh_g Feb 3 2005, 08:11 PM Watch out people - there will be many in the next few years who will 'scientifically' prove that world started in 4004BC.
Posted by: Ashok Kumar Feb 4 2005, 09:37 AM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Feb 4 2005, 08:41 AM) Watch out people - there will be many in the next few years who will 'scientifically' prove that world started in 4004BC.
Posted by: Bhootnath Feb 5 2005, 07:08 AM
QUOTE (Ashok Kumar @ Feb 4 2005, 11:07 PM)
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Feb 4 2005, 08:41 AM) Watch out people - there will be many in the next few years who will 'scientifically' prove that world started in 4004BC.
Nope Ashok, Nope... As a Good doctor wld say "egalitarian" .. :) But frankly its back to old rustic saying "Jiski Lathi Useeke Bhaisn ( Buffalo ). Press the Good Daaktars of Secular India and they will recount how when they were child they saw "LOWER CASTE" ppl carrying night soil on their heads, which of course befor they went to UK in early 60ties... Its same old...

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