India Forum Archives
Tuesday, January 18, 2005
  TSP, News And Discussion
Posted by: Mudy Sep 9 2004, 06:08 PM
The following links are background information on Pakistan: The Monkey Trap: A synopsis of Indo-Pak relations A landmark article that demolishes myths built up about Pakistan MUSHARRAF'S US VISIT: FACTS TO KNOW The Terrorist swamp that is Pakistan - Inside Jihad - How Pakistan sponsors terrorists in India Should Pakistan Be Broken Up? by Gul Agha which is a link to this great article: On the Frontier of Apocalypse by Christopher Hitchens (Nuclear Enabler - Pakistan today is the most dangerous place on Earth by Jim Hoagland) "Pakistan's Role in the Kashmir Insurgency" - Op-ed by Rand's Peter Chalk (This link is to a book called Making Enemies, Creating Conflict: Pakistan's Crises of State and Society. It is a collection of essays by Paks about Pak society and remains one of the finest critiques about Pakistan available on the net. ) Seymour Hersh Interview This is a list of Pakistani businesses that may be aiding and funding terror against India and other countries. Curricula and textbooks in Pakistan Most wanted list requested by India/List of terrorist sheltered by Pakistan Dictionary meaning of 'paki']The Enigma of Military Rule in Pakistan By Dr. Ahmad Faruqui
Posted by: Mudy Sep 10 2004, 09:14 AM
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 10 2004, 02:56 PM clap.gif PESHAWAR – As many as 10 persons were killed and several others injured during an encounter between the alleged terrorists and troops in Kaniguram area in Laddha Sub-Division of South Waziristan Agency overnight Friday. The Inter Services Public Relations Director General Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan confirmed recovery of the six bodies including five foreigners. But later on some official sources confirmed killing of 10 people in the clashes between troops and tribesmen at Kaniguram. However, troops casualties are yet to be confirmed. The clash between the two sides occurred at late night in Kaniguram area, said DG ISPR Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan during a Press conference here on Friday afternoon. The DG ISPR said that the identification process of the arrested persons is still in progress. He admitted that troops also sustained casualties but didn’t disclose the number of killed or injured troops. He said that no military vehicle was damaged in the encounter. The eye-witnesses in Laddha informed that after the encounter some 12 armymen were seen boarded on ambulances and other vehicles and feared that majority of them were dead. Maj. Gen. Shaukat Sultan said that killed people are being identified from their faces and dresses, adding that identification of the arrested people will take some time. He said that these arrested people dodge the investigators by telling different names. Talking about Thursday’s killings, the ISPR Director General said that in the light of intelligence reports, the operation was conducted against two militant camps in South Waziristan Agency. He dispelled the impression that operation was conducted during prayers time. At that time occupants of the camps were engaged in training, he claimed and added that no prayers are offered at 7 am. He said that over 50 people were killed in the operation and all of them were engaged in the terrorism and militancy through one way or the other. There were foreigners amongst them including Uzbeks, Chechens and some of them might be Arabs. The DG ISPR claimed that video was also made through satellite of both the camps. He said that locals who were killed in the operation were sheltering the illegal immigrants, foreigners or other wanted people. He said these locals were either like-minded of al-Qaeda or their facilitators. We never claimed of wiping out the terrorist camps from all over the South Waziristan Agency, said the DG ISPR in response to a question. He said on completion of operations in Azam Warsak and Kalushah, it was decided to root out al-Qaeda and its close aides from other areas. He said terrorists are still present in the South Waziristan Agency and the government is determined to carry out operations till complete eradication of the terrorism. He said that presence of these terrorists and militants confirmed after recovery of computer discs and CDs from the possession of arrested people and hideouts of the militants. Shaukat Sultan reaffirmed that the government still stands on its general amnesty offer to the foreigners and their local harbourers. In this regard all foreigners must denounce their past activities and surrender before the administration, he added. They must give surety to remain peaceful and to abide by the laws, then they would be allowed to stay in any part of the country. The local harbourers must denounce their activities and surrender to the administration, he urged. To another question, he said that there is no indigenous popular movement amongst the local tribal youths. He said if there exists any movement amongst the youths then media should play its due role in discouraging such a movement. He said that war on terror is in the larger interest of the country and people from all over the country should play their due role. Cheers
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 10 2004, 04:52 PM * Natwar dampens Hurriyat spirits NEW DELHI: India’s External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh has said that he did not attach much importance to the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, reiterating India’s stance that cross-border infiltration must be stopped before engaging Kashmiri militants in a dialogue. Nor was he bothered about Pakistani Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri meeting Hurriyat leaders from Jammu and Kashmir, he told STAR TV on Friday. “For all I care, he could meet them over dinner as well. It does not make a difference. I do not attach much importance to the Hurriyat leadership. The Pakistanis should realise that we have had elections in Jammu and Kashmir where over 45 percent of the people voted. There is an elected government in place. They should talk to them as well and not just meet Hurriyat leaders. The Pakistanis will have to think about it,” he explained. He rejected the idea that a leader of national stature should deal with the Hurriyat leadership as had been done by the previous National Democratic Alliance (NDA) government. Former deputy prime minister LK Advani was talking to the Hurriyat leadership for the NDA government. “We are open to a dialogue with the Hurriyat. It is for them to decide whether they want to engage,” he said while making it clear that the present government would not go out of the way to please the Hurriyat leadership. APHC chairman Mirwaiz Umer Farooq refused to comment saying he would like to study the minister’s statement first. Natwar Singh also sought to downplay the proposed meeting between Manmohan Singh and Pervez Musharraf in New York later in September saying not much should not be expected out of it. “The two leaders will meet each other on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly session. It will be followed up by a meeting of the foreign secretaries. In 2005, Manmohan Singh and President Musharraf would meet again during the SARRC summit. “This is a process and not an event. I have told my Pakistani counterpart that we should proceed step-by-step,” Singh said. ROTFL.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 10 2004, 05:20 PM
“For all I care, he could meet them over dinner as well. It does not make a difference. I do not attach much importance to the Hurriyat leadership. The Pakistanis should realise that we have had elections in Jammu and Kashmir where over 45 percent of the people voted. There is an elected government in place. They should talk to them as well and not just meet Hurriyat leaders. The Pakistanis will have to think about it,” he explained.
OK I know I have said anaap-shanaap for this guy in the past but for just this statement he deserves a sweet pappi on his cheek from Aishwarya Rai.. whistle.gif
Posted by: Kumar Sep 10 2004, 09:00 PM
Hi Mudy, These links do not work:
Posted by: David Sep 11 2004, 12:09 AM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Sep 11 2004, 05:50 AM)
“For all I care, he could meet them over dinner as well. It does not make a difference. I do not attach much importance to the Hurriyat leadership. The Pakistanis should realise that we have had elections in Jammu and Kashmir where over 45 percent of the people voted. There is an elected government in place. They should talk to them as well and not just meet Hurriyat leaders. The Pakistanis will have to think about it,” he explained.
Also, the CEC at that time got the "Asian Noble" , Raymon Magasaysay for conducting the elections.
Posted by: Nikhil Sep 11 2004, 05:30 AM
Also, the CEC at that time got the "Asian Noble" , Raymon Magasaysay award. for conducting the elections.
That is called "scuk-up!!" What role he played in kashmir election?? all he did was like any other CEC, follow the rules and do the election process, if there is anyone who deserve any award for election is indian army for their collective afforts to make sure everything was under-control and peaceful to very extent! Lynghod (or wutever this chimp's name was) was just like any other CEC we had in past, actually under his administration lot of goofups were made in various state's election roll lists!!
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 11 2004, 03:56 PM ISLAMABAD: As the nation observes today (Saturday), the 56th death anniversary of its father Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, few know that just four days before the Quaid’s death, the Pakistani government engaged an American doctor to treat the sick leader. The doctor was unable to reach Pakistan to save the man who changed the course of history, according to a declassified file containing information about medical treatment to Mr Jinnah, his death and related ceremonies. The file reveals that the Quaid’s private secretary Farrukh Amin sent a telegram from Governor General Camp in Quetta to Pakistan’s Ambassador in the US Mirza Abol Hassan Ispahani that read, “Steadily progressing marked improvement.” File F.178(2)GG/47 has been placed in the National Archives. The file starts with a letter dated July 25, 1948, by Mr Jinnah’s assistant secretary to Dr Alam of Mayo Hospital asking him to bring a portable X-ray machine and two clinical pathologists. Mr Jinnah’s recovery process is established from a message from Fatima Jinnah to the ruler of Bahawalpur on September 3. In the message, the Quaid’s sister asks him to reserve a guest house in Malir for Mr Jinnah’s visit from September 15. The doctors had advised Mr Jinnah to stay at Malir for at least 15 days before going to Karachi. On September 9, the Quaid’s assistant secretary sent an immediate telegram to Mr Ispahani asking him to immediately provide the names of specialists to be sent to provide medical treatment to Mr Jinnah. It was emphasised that the doctors must not be Jews. Mr Ispahani’s reply to that telegram reached Quetta on September 11, the last day of the Quaid’s life. The Pakistani ambassador wrote that he had selected a chest and lung specialist, Dr McLeod Riggins, but the doctor could not reach Pakistan earlier than the middle of the next week because of personal engagements, passport procedures and other details. On September 11, the ambassador sent another telegram saying that Dr Riggins would leave for Pakistan from New York on September 14 by Pan-American Airways. Unfortunately, this message was received on September 12, a day after the Quaid’s death. “The prime minister and ministers of the Pakistan Government announce with deep sorrow and grief the death by heart failure of beloved Quaid-i-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah, governor general of Pakistan, in Karachi on Saturday, September 11, 1948, at 10:25 pm,” said a cabinet secretariat notification dated September 12. Following the Quaid’s death, a notification from the military secretary to Governor General Col G Knowles was issued declaring that official mourning would be observed for 40 days with effect from September 12. On October 20, Fatima Jinnah held chehlum which was attended by Khawaja Nazimuddin, the Sindh governor, ministers of central Pakistan and the Sindh government, diplomats and officials. The declassified file tells another story worth mentioning about the two doctors, Lt Col Ilahi Baksh and Dr Riaz Ali Shah. According to the Quaid’s private secretary the two doctors created some confusion after reaching Governor General Camp on August 4. However, the file does not say what type of confusions the doctors created. Since September 11, 1948, several personalities have claimed that the Quaid’s death was not natural, although they could not bring any evidence on record to justify their claims. May God rest his soul in peace. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 12 2004, 05:48 AM ISLAMABAD, Sept 10: Imran Khan has equated the military operation in Waziristan to events that led to the eventual creation of Bangladesh in the 1970s from what was then East Pakistan, reports ANI. The former cricketerturned-politician claimed that spokespersons of the current ruling dispensation were calling Waziristan tribals as miscreants, a term that was used to describe Bengalis killed by the army in former East Pakistan. "At that time also, the official media had misled the nation and now again irreversible damage was being done to the federation," the Dawn quoted Khan as saying. Squarely blaming the present day military rulers for the situation evolving in the tribal areas along the Pakistan- Afghanistan border, Khan said that the military junta had not learnt its lessons from the tragic past when half the country was lost because a military despot (read Yayha Khan) didn''t allow the restoration of democracy. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 12 2004, 10:55 AM
Birdies Coming Home to Roost pakee.gif WANA: In clashes between security forces and miscreants in Mehsood tribe territory in South Waziristan 26 people were killed and 70 others were wounded, Geo TV reported on Sunday. Security forces personnel were also killed in skirmishes, eyewitnesses and sources said. The fighting began around midnight in areas adjacent to Kani Guram, a mountainous area about 50 kilometers (30 miles) northeast of Wana, which was continued all day. Security forces targeted miscreants’ positions with mortars and gunship helicopters. Six miscreants were killed in skirmishes, official sources said. Two security men were killed and eight personnel including a captain were injured in a gunfight in Makeen. Miscreants have closed a highway between Razmak and Ladda for traffic that was being used by the security forces. Security forces used artillery and gunship helicopters for shelling over the positions of miscreants for reopening of the highway. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 12 2004, 11:04 AM
When they will start action in Karachi and La-hore. All real heroes are having good time in their harem in port city and macho land.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 12 2004, 11:55 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Sep 12 2004, 11:34 PM)
When they will start action in Karachi and La-hore. All real heroes are having good time in their harem in port city and macho land.
Mudy Ji : The way things are developing in Lotastaan – if things don’t change drastically against the Jihadis – then we will see similar actions in Karachi and La hore. Please have Patience. All good things come to those who wait! Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 12 2004, 12:10 PM Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 12 2004, 02:24 PM
Muddy Ji : Lotastaani Army working hard to improve their performance and casualty figures :
SOUTH WAZIRISTAN – At least 30 people, including eight civilians and six militants, were killed and 70 others wounded in Kaniguram area as fierce clashes between the troops and militants continued for the third day running on Sunday in different parts of Laddha sub-division in South Waziristan Agency, reports from the affected areas said.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 13 2004, 06:10 AM clap.gif LAHORE: The US Consulate’s public affairs officer Rex Moser has ruled out the possibility of reopening an American centre in Lahore in the near future, citing security concerns. Talking to Daily Times on Sunday at an art exhibition, he said that anti-US attackers had razed the Lahore American Center a few years ago. Since then, he added, the US mission in Pakistan had been apprehensive of the security dimensions of resuming cultural activities in Punjab’s provincial metropolis. He said although the government of Pakistan had taken measures to ensure safety of American lives and property in Pakistan, the US official guidelines required caution. “We don’t feel comfortable operating in a hostile environment,” he said. However, he said the US representatives in Pakistan would continue, minimally, promoting cultural activities by co-organising exchanges and concerts. “I wish it were possible to reopen the center, but I don’t see it happening,” he added. He said he was impressed by the use of colours and depiction of light by artists whose work was exhibited on Sunday. “The landscapes reflect the love for the land. There is a reflection of figurative as well as non-figurative artwork,” he said. Mr Moser was presented a painting made by Lahore Arts Council’s display officer Zaibunnisa Zubair. Forman Christian College Principal Dr Peter Armacost and his wife and honorary counsel general of Bangladesh Qazi Hamayun Farid, former Punjab chief secretary Javed Qureishi and LAC’s director Raja Mohammed Abbas were also present. There were 57 exhibits by 25 artists including Prof Ijaz ul Hassan, Dr Mussarat Hassan, Shahnawaz Zaidi, Rahat Naveed Masud, Khalid Iqbal, Ghulam Mustafa, Kaleem Khan, Zulfi, Zaib Zubair, Ayesha Siddique, Zubaida Javed and Nida Mustafa. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Viren Sep 13 2004, 08:19 AM
QUOTE (Peregrine @ Sep 11 2004, 06:56 PM)
The declassified file tells another story worth mentioning about the two doctors, Lt Col Ilahi Baksh and Dr Riaz Ali Shah. According to the Quaid’s private secretary the two doctors created some confusion after reaching Governor General Camp on August 4. However, the file does not say what type of confusions the doctors created.
Peregrine: I had read story by a Pakistani ex-MP (forget the name) who had written about Jinnah being conveniently bumped off by the mullas. His theory was based on the fact that two state of the art ambulances purchased to follow Jinnah around 24x7, for some reason were 'missing' on the day he had the fatal attack.
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 13 2004, 12:48 PM laugh.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 13 2004, 01:40 PM
Viren : Here is the latest Article on Jinnah's Last days :
In 1948, Jinnah's health further deteriorated. It was only his sister Fatima who shared the secret of his disease. No one else in the country had an inkling of it till he was moved to Ziarat and TB specialists were summoned. Even his daughter Dina did not have any clue to it thanks to the strong character of Dr J. A. L. Patel. Ziarat was chosen perhaps due to its proximity to Karachi, because the other health resorts were far removed from Pakistan's capital Karachi and frequently important functionaries had to shuttle between Karachi and Ziarat to get Mr. Jinnah's advice on important matters. n the doctors lost all hopes of Mr. Jinnah's recovery, he was allowed to be shifted back to Karachi. The break down of the ambulance at Mauripur airport became known to the general public through the account of the doctors raising suspicions, including a bizarre theory of a conspiracy to kill the Quaid.Famous writer Saadat Hasan Manto also mentioned it in his sketch of Jinnah entitled 'Mera Sahib', based on his interview of Quaid's driver of Bombay days named Haneef Azad, in which Azad says, "Sahib was used to smooth driving. I wonder what would have he felt when his ambulance broke down on his way from the airport. I wish I were there to drive Sahib on his last journey." Many explanations have been given for this act of negligence by the bureaucracy. In a recent article in quarterly 'Al-Aqreba', Islamabad, Syed Hashim Raza, who was at that time the administrator of Karachi, has given his own version of the happening. He writes: "When on 10th September, Quaid-e-Azam and Miss Jinnah left Quetta airport for Mauripur, no one except the pilot knew where the plane would land. Those days, I was the administrator of Pakistan's capital Karachi. Whenever Quaid-e-Azam would depart from Karachi, as administrator, I used to be present at the airport to see him off. Similarly, whenever he would arrive in Karachi, it was my duty to receive him. But no one had a clue to the arrival of this plane. When I asked Quaid's military secretary afterwards that why I was not informed about it, he told me that Miss Jinnah had ordered him that no one should be informed about the arrival of the plane except Mr. Liaquat Ali Khan, with the instructions that he should not come at Mauripur airport. When the military secretary rang up Jinnah Hospital to send an ambulance, he did not tell them for whom the ambulance was required. This ambulance got stuck up at some distance from the airport. Some fault had occurred in its engine that could not be rectified by anyone, and another ambulance was called from Jinnah Hospital. For one hour, Quaid-e-Azam's nurse kept warding off flies in that sultry heat. When the second ambulance arrived, then Quaid was driven to the Governor General's house and was made to lie in his bedroom. His doctor has written in his book that he died at twenty past ten the same night. This account shows that the whole thing was mismanaged. Was an enquiry ordered into the happening? Why a faulty ambulance was sent to the airport on a call from the military secretary to the Governor General and even if the hospital authorities were not told for whom the ambulance was needed, it seems they had no sympathy for a patient in emergency and distress. It shows that our ways have not changed even after half a century.
Doesn’t seem if these Ambulances were “state of the art” nor were they following him all the time. Jinnah died of neglect - a dog's death - and I think the Pakistani Army was involved as the Military Secretary rang the Hospital for an ambulance but did not inform them that it was for Jinnah. Possibly the replacement Ambulance was delayed by the Pakistani Army to ensure that Jinnah would be brought to the Hospital DOA. Who knows? Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 14 2004, 12:31 AM Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 15 2004, 01:10 AM pakee.gif PESHAWAR: Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam-Fazl (JUI-F) chief Maulana Fazlur Rehman said on Tuesday that the army was trying to create another Bangladesh on the western frontier. The JUI chief, who is also the opposition leader in the National Assembly, blamed the army for the secession of Bangladesh. “Now it’s paving the way for the separation of the country’s western part,” said the opposition leader. He said Pakistan was fighting a war in Waziristan for US interests and was bombing and killing innocent tribesmen in the name of terrorism. Innocent tribesmen were offloaded from buses, tortured and shot dead, said Mr Rehman at Darul Uloom Sarhad. The MMA leader said all those killed so far were locals. He said the MMA had showed patience in South Waziristan, otherwise the area would become Iraq. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 15 2004, 09:01 AM
Bush pressure on Mushy to deliver OBL before election may create new nation NWFP. Not bad. biggrin.gif
Posted by: Viren Sep 15 2004, 10:03 AM'immoral'~sister
Posted by: Mudy Sep 15 2004, 11:31 AM
Pak father orders son to rape 'immoral' sister Lahore, Sept 14 (ANI): In yet another torturous case of crime against women in Pakistan that has come to light, a father allowed his son to rape his sister for over two years as punishment claiming she bore an 'immoral' character. The family belongs to the minority Christian community and has nine children, including six daughters. According to the Daily Times, Mariam (17) was raped by her real brother, Javed (20), as many as five times over the past two years even as she was chained inside her house and not allowed to interact with the neighbours and relatives. The father had even warned Mariam's mother of dire consequences it she disclosed the matter to the police. On September 9, the mother-daughter duo somehow managed to escape and reported the matter to the police. But, strangely, the complaint felt on deaf ears and the case was not registered, till last reported. (ANI)
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 15 2004, 11:32 AM Spanish police have arrested at least 10 suspected Islamist militants in a series of pre-dawn raids in Barcelona. Spanish judicial authorities say that most of the detainees are of Pakistani origin. Police said they found no arms or explosives in the raids on several premises, including private homes. Authorities have dampened suggestions that the arrests are linked to al-Qaeda or the 11 March train bombings in Madrid, in which 191 people died. "An operation was launched against Islamic activists and several people were detained," a spokesman for Catalonia regional police told AFP news agency. The BBC's Katya Adler in Madrid says the operation was ordered by Ismael Moreno, an investigating judge at the Spanish High Court. The men are suspected of belonging to a militant Islamist cell based in Barcelona, a spokesman for the court said. Barcelona's autonomous police force, the Mossos d'Esquadra, raided a series of properties in the El Raval and Trinitat Vella districts of the city. They seized a number of documents now being examined by detectives. A spokesman for the Mossos d'Esquadra described those arrested as members of an "organised criminal group" with possible links to foreign-based Islamists, Spanish radio reports. The men are not believed to be operating an al-Qaeda terror cell in Barcelona, the spokesman added. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 15 2004, 11:33 AM Pervez Musharraf is to stay on both as president of Pakistan and head of its armed forces despite a pledge to stand down as army leader by January. "The national situation demands he keeps the two offices," Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said. The announcement follows weeks of speculation and rival motions from parliamentary parties over the issue. The decision will anger hardline Islamic parties in Pakistan, analysts predict. Mr Ahmed said the situation had changed since the president made his pledge. General Musharraf came to power in a bloodless coup in 1999. He claimed this month that 96% of people wanted him to keep his military post. 'Dictator' The debate over the president's dual role has simmered since parliamentary elections in October 2002. It flared up on Monday when the legislature in eastern Punjab adopted a resolution urging President Musharraf to retain both posts for his "policy against terrorism" and "economic stability". Hardline Islamic parties responded on Wednesday with a motion in North West Frontier Province calling on him to fulfil his pledge to stand down. A spokesman for former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's party, Sadique al-Farooq, described him as a dictator. "His claim that he is a man of his word who fulfils his promises has proven false," he said. Political deal The debate on the issue began after the 2002 polls, when opposition groups protested at a change in the constitution that allowed the president to retain both posts. The president agreed to review the decision and entered a dialogue with an alliance of six Islamic groups. They agreed not to back a no-confidence motion after President Musharraf said he would step down as army head by 31 December 2004. The president in return got a constitutional amendment legitimising his military takeover and subsequent actions. But President Musharraf has said there is nothing in the amendment that bars him from remaining army chief for another five years. He has cast doubt on his agreement with the Islamic parties, saying they should have voted for him in the no-confidence vote rather than abstaining. Military man Analysts say the president may feel his real source of strength lies in commanding the military. As a purely civilian head he may come under greater pressure from parties to alter his reforms, they say. His supporters argue he needs to remain in uniform to tackle al-Qaeda and other Islamic extremists. The president has continued to build his power base this year. He effectively removed Prime Minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali in June and has installed key ally Shaukat Aziz. There was no immediate international reaction to the latest decision. In May the Commonwealth decided to lift the suspension on Pakistan's membership in part because President Musharraf had agreed to stand down as army head. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 15 2004, 03:36 PM clap.gif
MADRID: Police staging pre-dawn raids in Barcelona on Wednesday arrested 10 people who may have supported Islamic militants in North Africa or the Middle East, officials said. Police had initially described the detainees, all of Pakistani origin, as suspected members of an Islamic militant group, but later said they belonged to a “violent, organised crime group”.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Viren Sep 16 2004, 07:03 AM
Oh well, now
Posted by: Mudy Sep 16 2004, 09:00 AM
Now Mushy want to stay in Khaki and President Seat. Action in NWFP is just a drama to stay in Khaki and this month is critical as lot of challenger will be retiring. Whatever number we are getting may be eyewash; you never know whether they are killing criminals and addicts and showing them as foreign fighter they have killed. I won't trust this number and action.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 16 2004, 11:12 AM
Meanwhile back at the Ranch : Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 17 2004, 02:31 PM ISLAMABAD (APP) - The government, through Trading Corporation of Pakistan (TCP) has allowed import of one million tons of wheat from Australia, Russia and the USA. This was stated by Minister for Food, Agriculture and Livestock, Sikandar Hayat Khan Bosan in his written reply to a question raised by Senator Muhammad Ali Brohi in Senate on Friday. The Minister said the TCP has awarded contracts to Australian Wheat Board, Australia, Agro Trade and Finance, SA, Switzerland, Cargill International, Switzerland, Luis Dryfus, USA and Strcom Resources (Pvt) Ltd, Singapore. Responding to another question raised by Senator Muhammad Akram, he said that 18 million tons of tea was produced at National Tea Research Institute, Shinkiari in the last two years. liar.gif He said some concrete steps are being taken to enhance tea production in the country. Pakistan Agriculture Research Council (PARC), he said has been tasked to extend technical support and provide tea saplings to the farmers. The private sector is also being encouraged to promote tea cultivation at farmers’ field, he added. The Minister said Lever Brothers have already put up a processing plant and have taken initiatives on plantation of tea. In an effort to address the issue of financial constraint of tea growers, special credit facility has been arranged. Under this arrangement, Bank of Khyber and ZTBL are extending credit to tea growers on long terms recovery basis. The World Produces about Six Million Tons of Tea in Two Years out of which Lotastaan produces 18 Million tons. pakee.gif Must be Military Efficiency Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 17 2004, 02:46 PM
Responding to another question raised by Senator Muhammad Akram, he said that 18 million tons of tea was produced at National Tea Research Institute, Shinkiari in the last two years.
First they smuggle and change made in India or SriLanka label and finally product made in Pakistan shows up in state of Art Lab
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 18 2004, 07:16 PM
Hmmm.. I will let the admins decide whether this post is ok or not .. Here is an 'article' from a doctor.. Author is..
Written by Member: DR. IMRAN WAHEED Country: Pakistan Date: 9-Dec-2002 Member's email:
Not just your adaa-tedaa doktor, this one is for real.. blink.gif
Being a doctor and a consultant physician
he says and then...
While awake a masturbator is always thinking of ladies, girls, actresses and any female in front of him or a male in front of a female masturbate with the intention of sex. Their brain is always dreaming of sex with any actress or any female sometimes in certain degree of blood relationship or even females of animal class like sheep, cow etc as I learnt this from the letters of some boys from various villages. Ladies and girls dream of sex with men and donkeys etc as some letters apprised me about this fact and these letters were written by a school teacher from karachi.
"true" love knows no bounds, it seems ...
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 19 2004, 12:57 AM ROTFL.gif
Allama Mahmood Alussi (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates in Ruh-ul-Ma’ni: “Atta (may Allah be pleased with him) says that I have heard that on the Day of Judgment one group will be brought in such a way that their hands will be pregnant. I think they are the masturbators.”
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 19 2004, 03:27 AM
For Lotastaani Lurkers : World Bank GDP & Per Capita Income Figures 2003 : INDIA : GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) : 530.0 GDP (current $) : 599.0 billion LOTASTAAN : GNI per capita, Atlas method (current US$) : 470.0 GDP (current $) : 68.8 billion Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: k.ram Sep 19 2004, 08:16 PM rocker.gif
Posted by: Viren Sep 20 2004, 10:56 AM
Last week, after the Pakistan Foreign Minister's Delhi visit, there were reports of a secret meeting between J N Dixit and Tariq Aziz, the national security honchos of the two countries. It was subsequently learnt that the meeting took place in Dubai. The tacit confirmation of a Dixit-Aziz meet or even the disclosure of the venue doesn't breach the no-media ground rules of back channel engagement. What is important is that the substantive details are kept confidential. This time there is consternation and anger in the Indian foreign policy establishment over crucial details of the Dubai talks finding their way into the Pakistani media. If the leaks by the ubiquitous well-placed sources in Pakistan are anything to go by, the peace process has hit a roadblock. India, it is said, has changed tack from the Kashmir-plus dialogue of the Islamabad Declaration and has opted for a Kashmir-minus approach. The Singh Government has been charged with prevarication on the Kashmir front, preferring to focus on people-to-people contacts and economic issues. Pakistan, it would seem, is particularly miffed by India's refusal to countenance even a loose time-frame for the resolution of the Kashmir dispute. This, it seems, was the blunt message of Dixit to Aziz
Posted by: Viren Sep 20 2004, 02:30 PM
Reacting to the report, an official spokesman accompanying Singh said, "This is completely and wholly inaccurate. Any suggestion that the prime minister will make such an offer is factually wrong
Posted by: Viren Sep 20 2004, 02:52 PM
Belated wishes of the 'gulami din' to TSP lurks Another fallout of the sellout....
"We nurtured them for years, and then the government did a U-turn," said one senior Karachi police official. "If you adopt a son and then you throw him out when he is 23 years old, of course he is going to be angry."
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 21 2004, 09:15 AM pakee.gif
"I'm sorry, I don't want to boast about myself, liar.gif " he said, "but there is a renaissance, there is a big change we are trying to bring about." Though he said that he had not yet decided to remain Army chief beyond the Dec. 31 deadline, he asked pointedly, "How did General De Gaulle continue in uniform all through his period as president of France, and France is a democratic country?"
Riff Raff comparing Lotastaan to France and himself to General De Gaulle ROTFL.gif France may not make an official complaint but I am sure General De Gaulle will be Rolling Over in his Grave. furious.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 21 2004, 09:19 AM
Riff Raff comparing Lotastaan to France and himself to General De Gaulle
One day he will compare himself with Prophet.
Posted by: Viren Sep 21 2004, 09:31 AM
QUOTE (Peregrine @ Sep 21 2004, 12:15 PM)
Riff Raff comparing Lotastaan to France and himself to General De Gaulle ROTFL.gif
Peregrine: If I'm not mistaken, De Gaulle is said to have survived the most number assasination and coups attempts in the modern times. Any guess on riff raff's interest in De Gaulle whistle.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 21 2004, 10:38 AM
QUOTE (Viren @ Sep 21 2004, 10:01 PM)
Any guess on riff raff's interest in De Gaulle whistle.gif
Viren : Riff Raff Originally compared himself to Jinnah. Then it was Kemal Attaturk. Now it is General De Gaulle. Thus it all depends on the time of the Month as to whom Riff Raff compares himself to. Tomorrow if some “miniscule country” appoints an Ass in Military Uniform as President then Riff Riff will compare himself to General Ass. P.S. Lotastaan with 4,100,000 Asses (Over Five times those in India) has the second largest population of Asses in the World. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 21 2004, 11:12 AM
.S. Lotastaan with 4,100,000 Asses (Over Five times those in India) has the second largest population of Asses in the World.
biggrin.gif ROTFL.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 21 2004, 03:17 PM KARACHI: Pakistan has stationed female security guards (as male Guards are believed to be heavily infiltrated by Al Qaeeda and other Terrorist Fundamentalist Groups), at U.S. diplomatic missions because of fears they could be attacked by women suicide bombers, security officials said on Tuesday. The women guards have been stationed at the U.S. embassy in Islamabad, and consulates in the southern city of Karachi and the eastern city of Lahore, an interior ministry official said. "We have done this as a matter of precaution. There is no specific information or threat as such," he said. "But there is a fear that women of Central Asian origin, or even Pakistanis,be used in such attacks."Karachi police chief Tariq Jameel said in the past, the threat posed by women had not been taken into account. "We have deployed women security staff to check all women suspects," he said. Peace cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 22 2004, 04:28 AM ISLAMAWORST: Some 800 Pakistanis freed by Oman after being caught for having travelled there illegally will return home this week, a Pakistani human rights group said on Tuesday. The 800 men were captured without valid travel documents in recent years after having been smuggled into Oman by human traffickers, the Ansar Burney Welfare Trust International said in a statement. Ap Cheers
Posted by: Viren Sep 22 2004, 11:38 AM
Sixty-five percent of Pakistanis, 45 percent of Moroccans and 31 percent of Turks have a favourable view of the on-the-run Al-Qaeda leader, according to a Pew research poll released in March.
Posted by: Viren Sep 22 2004, 02:43 PM
Nothing new...every Sept Indian PM and Pak CEOs make their trip to US which means it's time for the usual charlatans to make some spare change moonlighting as SA experts.
QUOTE From the Commentary section Over the last 50 years, India-Pakistan relations have degenerated into an entangled mess of thorny issues, the thorniest remaining Kashmir. Pakistan's claim on the Muslim-majority state is steeped in its founding ideology as the logical home for South Asia's Muslims. India counters its secular identity is defined by being able to provide for its Muslim minorities within India's Hindu majority, and ceding any territory Pakistan demands would set a dangerous precedent for breaking up India's diverse polity. The two nuclear powers have gone to war twice over Kashmir to defend their respective positions. Friday, their leaders, Gen. Pervez Musharraf of Pakistan and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh of India, have a chance to start anew by constructing a roadmap for permanent peace during their one-on-one meeting in New York. India wants water rights, increased bilateral trade and commerce, and energy pipelines that bring Iran's oil and gas through Pakistan to western India at the top of the two-nation agenda. Pakistan, now comfortably situated as the key U.S. ally in the war against extremism and therefore well-funded, would prefer to talk Kashmir first and then anything else. Neither position is feasible for peace. Bold new steps are needed. Four years ago, Atal Behari Vajpayee, then India's prime minister and now its elder statesman, was prepared to make Kashmir's people the central players in any final status resolution talks. India thus gave Pakistan's powerful army generals, who have too much blood invested in the disputed enclave to ever walk away quietly, adequate maneuvering room to slip out under the banner of having empowered the Kashmiri people with stature to determine their own fate. That kind of statesmanship is again needed in South Asian diplomacy to rekindle the spirit of peace Mr. Vajpayee left behind. Mr. Singh, whose primary strength is economics, needs to offer a bold political step that allows Mr. Musharraf, ever the tactician, to stare down his military hawks at home and shut down Pakistan's jihadist enterprise. To break the deadlock, Mr. Musharraf can offer prospects of a bilateral pro-business plan that puts the trade and commerce issues India wants at the top of the agenda while asking his Indian counterpart to offer a macropolitical framework that prioritizes resolving Kashmir. A secure and lasting framework for peace could be guided by the following principles: • Pakistan establishes mini-free trade zones; India offers freedom of movement for Kashmiris. Pakistan should propose to match India, industry for industry, in reducing tariffs, customs duties and other prohibitive fees by creating a series of smaller free trade zones that can form the basis for larger bilateral trade and commerce. India recently encouraged its large manufacturers to import capital goods by eliminating import duties to strengthen output and export capacity. Increased trade would mean more jobs. More jobs would mean fewer idle hands. Fewer idle hands would mean fewer recruits available to the extremists, and therefore less terrorism. India, in return, should agree to release Kashmiri prisoners, permit Indian-held Kashmiri residents to travel abroad, as the Vajpayee government did to great effect in 2001, and start a people-unifying bus service for Kashmiris between Srinagar (on the Indian side) and Muzaffarabad (on the Pakistan side). The buses should run without requiring passports of Kashmiri travelers, a prerequisite that would have the disastrous effect of politically recognizing the Line of Control separating the disputed territories as a de-facto international border before other steps can be taken. If Mr. Singh helps create conditions for unifying Kashmir's people, Mr. Musharraf should respond by genuinely ending his army's support for cross-border insurgents that has vexed bilateral relations. c Pakistan places top priority on high-volume energy links; India places top priority on resolving Kashmir. In exchange for New Delhi putting Kashmir at the top of the bilateral agenda with defined resolution milestones, Islamabad could approve New Delhi's much-needed Iran-India oil and gas pipelines for transit across its territories, including security guarantees by Pakistan's armed forces. Since Pakistan's economy will be inextricably linked to and increasingly dependent on India's for decades to come, it only makes sense that Pakistan earn the $500 million to $800 million per annum in transit fees and revenue (1 percent to 11/2 percent additional gross domestic product) the pipelines will generate while helping India's economy grow. Pipelines carrying India's refined energy products to Pakistan should also be considered (Pakistan, for example, needs up to 10 million metric tons of diesel fuel yearly, which Indian refineries can provide). Such bilateral exchanges of vital energy products make it much less likely either country would unilaterally shut down the other's energy lifelines. This is "trust but verify" at its very best. To elevate Kashmir as an issue meaningfully, Mr. Singh should regenerate the good will New Delhi once enjoyed among indigenous Kashmiris. Invite them to the table as partners for peace. Mr. Singh should remember forcing one party in a dispute to make all the concessions could irreparably compromise that party's ability to negotiate at all. Leaving the key party out -- Kashmir's people -- is an unacceptable price. c One bold step: Adjusting the Line of Control. Kashmir's final solution lies in territorial adjustments that reflect India's desire for geographical unity while respecting Pakistan's yearning to reunite with disputed Kashmir's people. Therefore, modifications of the Line of Control that give Pakistan even a sliver of the coveted Kashmir valley by moving it a few miles east in the southern part near Srinagar, while moving it westward in the northern part at Siachen, where only glaciers hold fort, would give Pakistan's army generals enough cover to claim victory to their partisan domestic audience while allowing India its right to geographical unity. Accentuating such territorial adjustments by making the border more porous so Kashmiris within the princely state can be reunited and demilitarization can occur would heal the scars of five decades of conflict. Mr. Musharraf and Mr. Singh have a historic chance to put forth a comprehensive plan for engagement that leaves troubled histories behind them, offers economic hope and development to the one-sixth of humanity they are responsible for and forever changes the political fate of one of the world's most elegant and peaceful people. Mansoor Ijaz, chairman of Crescent Investment Management in New York City, jointly authored the blueprint for a cease-fire of hostilities in Kashmir in 2000. rolleyes.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 23 2004, 07:55 AM pakee.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 23 2004, 09:02 AM
Like always they are better than Indians.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 23 2004, 10:28 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Sep 23 2004, 09:32 PM)
Like always they are better than Indians.
Mudy :, There are another 4,099,999 onlee like Riff Raff pakee.gif in Lotastaan Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 24 2004, 12:59 AM clap.gif user posted image Famous cleric of Lahore Dr Israr Ahmad stated in Khabrain that the idea of Pakistan was dead and that after two and a half years Pakistan would be no more. He said there was Islamic jihad in Kashmir and there was no such thing as Muslim umma. He said Pakistan would break up into eight pieces and Balochistan would be the only piece that would be economically viable. He said Pakistan was not made by Punjabis but by Sindhis. In the NWFP there was Sarhadi Gandhi and the Baloch wanted no part of Pakistan. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 25 2004, 01:09 AM pakee.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: PC Guleria Sep 25 2004, 10:46 PM
The inflow of foreign direct investment (FDI) and foreign portfolio investment has shown a sharp decline in the first seven months of this fiscal. According to data compiled by Board of Investment (BoI), foreign direct investment (FDI) fell by 43.07 percent or $256.9 million during the July to January period compared with the corresponding period last year, total investment fell 51.18 percent or $316.2 million while portfolio investment remained negative during the period under review.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 26 2004, 12:17 PM ISLAMAWORST: Pakistan has assured India that its forces would not seize the Siachen glacier high in the Himalayas if Indian troops were to withdraw from it, a Pakistani newspaper said on Sunday. The assurance was given by Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf in his first face-to-face meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New York on Friday, the English-language the News said, quoting unidentified sources. Singh had "positively responded" to the offer and modalities would be worked out later, the newspaper said. Pakistani and Indian forces have been facing off in the icy wastes of the Siachen glacier, 5,500 metres (18,000 feet) above sea level for 20 years. More soldiers die there of altitude sickness and frostbite than in fighting. Pakistani foreign ministry officials in Islamabad said that they could not confirm the report. The two countries have discussed the Siachen dispute many times but India has been reluctant to vacate the peaks fearing that Pakistani troops at lower ground would move up and occupy the glacier. The News also said that the two leaders had agreed to restore a hotline set up between the Pakistani President and Indian Prime Minister 11 years ago but never used. The only regularly used hotline between the nuclear-armed rivals is between senior military officials. Analysts said that the meeting between Musharraf and Singh had revitalised a flagging peace process under which the two countries had held a series of talks at foreign minister and senior official level this year aimed at building confidence. Pakistan and India said that they wanted to resolve all their disputes, including the core issue of Kashmir, cause of two of their three wars since gaining independence from Britain in 1947. In Jammu and Kashmir, an alliance of political separatist groups said that it would only consider resuming peace talks with the Indian government after getting a formal invitation. The comments came a day after Home Minister Shivraj Patil said that the government would not attach conditions to dialogue on the region. But that offer was met with scepticism. "Earlier also, they announced that they would hold unconditional talks with us but later they backed out," said Maulana Abbas Ansari, an official of the All Parties Hurriyat Conference, an alliance of two dozen Kashmiri separatist groups. "We'll wait for the formal invitation and discuss it," he said. The talks, the first since the insurgency began, were launched this year by the previous government in New Delhi. But the dialogue appeared to have broken down last month after the UPA government, which took power in May, insisted talks be held within the constitution, which says Kashmir is an integral part of India. That position is not acceptable to the Hurriyat, which is seeking independence for Kashmir or merger with Pakistan. Earlier, Patil had said in an interview that an invitation would be sent to Hurriyat leaders when he visited Kashmir next month. Pervert led the Lotastaani Terrorists into a clearly demarcated Indian Territory. No Lotastaani can be believed to keep his-her word. India must never fall into Riff Raff’s Trap. Cheers
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 26 2004, 03:14 PM clap.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 26 2004, 06:38 PM
ISLAMAWORST: Pakistan has assured India that its forces would not seize the Siachen glacier high in the Himalayas if Indian troops were to withdraw from it, a Pakistani newspaper said on Sunday.
Paki trap.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 27 2004, 05:26 AM clap.gif
ISLAMAWORST : Six security officials were killed while five others injured in an attack by unknown terrorists on a military convoy near the Sarokai area of South Waziristan.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 27 2004, 10:21 AM clap.gif India defeated Pakistan scoring four against one goal in the second match of Indo-Pak series in General Moosa hockey stadium, Quetta, on Monday. Sandeep Singh of India scored the first goal in the thirteenth minute of the match, the first three goals were scored in the first half while the last goal from India was scored just before the matched ended. Sohail Abbas scored the only goal of Pakistan by a penalty corner. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 27 2004, 10:43 AM Seems, Mushy gave OBL home address to Bush, so that he can be displayed on TV before 2 Nov 2004.
Posted by: Viren Sep 27 2004, 12:42 PM
G. Parthasarathy :
Given the way that developments in Kashmir and Manipur have been handled in recent months, there is little reason to be optimistic that this task can be carried out imaginatively by the Home Ministry. Delhi will have to formulate policies to respond appropriately and pro-actively to Pakistan's efforts to destabilize the situation within India. There is no place for sentimentality on this score
Posted by: Mudy Sep 27 2004, 03:01 PM
There have, however been two important, but unpublicized developments in recent talks with Pakistan. During discussions with Khurshid Kasuri, External Affairs Minister Natwar Singh made it clear that India was concerned about the lack of representative institutions, democratic freedoms and meaningful autonomy in PoK and the Northern Areas in the PoK
This tells India or UPA had given up its claims to POK. Back to old Kangress mental breakdown.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 27 2004, 04:14 PM pakee.gif Since the creation of Pakistan “The Holy Trinity” has not been able to bring out the full potential of the country, instead it has undermined and in some cases crippled the institutions that were handed over to us at the time of partition. The situation reminds me of a joke which goes as under: Q: How do you keep a Sardar Jee busy all day? A: Put him in a round room and tell him to sit in the corner (ha ha!). The flash points which became the cause of diverting huge amounts to the defence budget are: Junagadh, Hyderabad, Kashmir, East Pakistan, Siachin, Kargil, Afghanistan and last but not the least the Indus Water Treaty. Junagadh and Hyderabad are under Indian control. Kashmir is still burning and the LoC seems to be a reality at this point in time. East Pakistan is Bangladesh and Kargil has been an embarrassment. With the initiation of 9/11 by the West we have lost our strategic depth in Afghanistan. The Indus Water Treaty has resulted in the creation of IRSA, a body trying to resolve the water crises between the provinces which would become trickier to negotiate as time passes and India holds on to its ground on the Wullar barrage issue. The fallout from the above mentioned issues has been illiteracy, lack of infrastructural development, limited industrialisation, propagation of extremism in religious bodies, sectarianism, increase in crime and an insurgency-like situation in Wana and Balauchistan. Talk to a child in the interior of Sind and ask him what he would like to be when he grows up and he proudly answers “Dhareil” - a dacoit. The recent developments at the regional level do not augur well for the country: a. In early 2003 Iran and India inked a defence cooperation agreement by which India has secured the right to use Iranian bases. b. India carries out war games with Tajikistan and uses it as a base to carry out its relief operations for the Northern Alliance. Farkhor may be India’s first military base in Central Asia. c. USA and France pass on advanced technology to India to help boost its defence production. d. India’s axis with Russia has been strengthened through the test of time. e. India has warships in Persian Gulf. This will not only foster closer ties but will also increase familiarity with Iran, UAE & Bahrain and impress them with warships and indigenous technology of radars and sensors. India has recently stepped up efforts to project its influence in the Indian Ocean region. On the economic front, the gas pipeline between Iran and India was to pass through Pakistan, but the deal was scuttled after the bomb blasts were carried out by Baloch tribes on our own gas pipes at a time when the Iranian minister was in India to sign the deal. Excellent timing! Now they are planning the pipeline along the coast, bypassing Pakistan completely. Presently a road, rail and sea corridor is being planned to link India, Iran and Russia. China our only friend and ally in the region has developed a new economic relationship with India; within a span of ten years their trade volume has jumped from US$300 million to US$10 billion. Would anybody like to take a guess as to our turnover with our friend? Kazakistan, the biggest and most resourceful country amongst the CAR states, which form a large part of the ECO has recently formed an economic re-integration with Russia, Ukraine and Belarus. So, are we left with any ally in the region? The GCC. Yes we tried joining up with them, but we were told we are not Arabs. And don’t forget they love flirting with the Indians. No, no we have no allies in the region, but we have Uncle Sam from across the Ocean. A bit fat, over extended and senile and forgets friends at the drop of a hat, but something is better than nothing - even if our friendship has cost us lose the respect of the Iraqi masses and the Muslim ummah. Enough of cynicism. We are where we are because of our collective actions or inaction and the blame rests equally on each and every Pakistani, dead or alive. The question is what can we do about it? First and foremost, let’s stop calling ourselves the citadel of Islam, at present we are not, not that we do not have the potential to be but at the moment we are not, so lets stop being a legend in our own minds! Secondly, we can only take counter measures once we accept the reality on ground and the reality is that we have on our borders two potential super powers, China & India, and one with regional ambitions, namely Iran, whose role in the coming days and years will gain more importance once the infarction in Iraq starts bleeding openly. We literally seem to be “between the devil and the sea”. On the economic front we have been facing frustrations vis-a-vis our endeavours to join up with a group which will bolster our image and exports on the world forum. ASEAN seems to be an option. But we do not have a geographical linkage nor any cultural or linguistic ties. However, we must keep trying to get a preferential treatment through signing of “STA’s and counter trade agreements”. SAARC has been a lazy horse and sometimes it is felt that the biggest member is keen to keep it at this pace. This pace affects Pakistan, but India growing at the rate at which it is will automatically become a magnet for other smaller SAARC members. As regards ECO, most of the CAR members in this grouping were satellite states feeding off the mother ship. Since breaking away from Russia they have not been able to achieve aggressive economic activity and even if they do, their road and railway networks are linked with St. Petersburg on the European end through Iran which has developed extensive network of roads, rail track and a chain of Ports/Bandars from Deylam to Gonaveh to Bushehr to Abbas and Chabahar to the Indian Ocean. Our development of Gwadar may be useful to certain regions of China, CIS and India’s Punjab,*** but we must remember that per ton haulage on truck is far more expensive than per ton haulage by train. Iran has linked up its rail track with Askhabad in Turkmanistan but has yet to link it up with Pakistan. We could gain an advantage if we develop our riverine transportation forthwith. As with the ASEAN, we do not have much in common with the language and culture of the CAR members. Having Mongolid features they blend more with the Chinese and the Koreans. OIC is a pipe dream but of great value to Pakistan if it takes a practical and workable shape. This body would place Pakistan at the hub of the ummah’s geopolitical and economic activity. A lot has been written and said about this body, the only thing lacking is the execution. Whether an observer, a member, or a key player in all or any of the above mentioned forums, we would be of no consequence until we get our own house in order. The following steps need to be implemented on a war footing: 1. Education. There is no shortcut here, an immediate increase is needed in the funds allocated and bodies created to monitor the implementation. Not of the number of schools being set up, but of the quality of education being imparted, with greater emphasis on science/technology and research. The curriculum should made with the year 2050 in mind. 2. Immediately contain the separatists grumbling in smaller provinces and Saraiki region by creating more provinces as per divisional boundaries. Give maximum autonomy to the provinces and re-develop the presidential form of government. This action will give us a lease of life against the virus of Balkanisation already spreading in the world while at the same time achieving maximum decentralisation and would thus lead to progress. 3. Develop a network of roads, rail track, ports, dams and riverine transport. 4. Industrial zones for value addition to local raw materials like agricultural produce and chemicals is needed. 5. Improvement is needed in the law and order so that we become a transit route for the movement of goods, electricity, gas etc. between various countries surrounding us, thus turning our disadvantage into a major advantage, this will entail developing cordial relations with our neighbours. 6. Last but not the least, to achieve all this, hard and unpopular decisions will have to be taken for the long term welfare of the nation, decisions which cannot be taken by a leader, dictator or a politician, but only a statesman (and a statesman does not need the security of a uniform. His faith in God Almighty and his decisions for the well being of the nation are his security). ***Lotastaanis are really going round the bend. Taking Ludhiana as an example the distance to Gwadar is about 500 Kilometres more than Kandla. In addition an even better and more Modern Port has been built in with the following salient features : Full fledged multipurpose, deep draft commercial port capable of berthing capesize vessels. Deep draft of 17-18 Metres capable of berthing Capsize & Post Panamax vessels. Draft of 32.0 Metres within port limits, suitable for Berthing VLCC alongside SBM's. As such the Lotastaanis can keep Gwadar for their own nefarious purposes. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 28 2004, 11:32 AM
ISLAMAWORST - The Indus River System Authority (IRSA) Monday projected 56 per cent water shortage in Rabi season starting from October 1, 2004 and withdrew its earlier figure of 37 per cent presented in its Technical Committee in last Saturday’s meeting.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Viren Sep 28 2004, 11:34 AM
US Senate candidate Barack Obama says that if President Pervez Musharraf loses power in a coup, the United States may consider military strikes to destroy Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
Posted by: rajesh_g Sep 28 2004, 02:15 PM
QUOTE (Viren @ Sep 28 2004, 11:34 AM)
US Senate candidate Barack Obama says that if President Pervez Musharraf loses power in a coup, the United States may consider military strikes to destroy Pakistan's nuclear weapons.
ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif If yanks truly target the pukes, that means pukes got no nukes to begin with. By its interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq and by mollycoddling jihadis in TSP/KSA yank establishment has lost the credibility to make such boisterous statements.
Posted by: Viren Sep 28 2004, 02:31 PM
Au contraire mon ami, it fits well n3.gif Paki nuke nude theory. If Mush's tush is on fire, beards will make a dash for the crown jewels. Mush's mai-bai guarding them would destroy it rather than let beards take control of it. The downside to this argument is that this is the very snakeoil that the TSP salesman in uniform has been peddling all along to the nitwits. sleepysmileyanim.gif Barack Obama's statement seems to give a picture of some sort of Osirak type raid. Methinks it'll be more of a scroched earth policy type scenario cheers.gif
Posted by: Viren Sep 28 2004, 02:44 PM
Posted by: Mudy Sep 28 2004, 09:36 PM NEW YORK: The FBI and US immigration officials have conducted a pre-dawn raid on several residents of Pakistani immigrants in Jersey City, a town close to New York, residents said on Tuesday. US federal agents started knocking at the doors of Pakistanis in the area which is officially named Jinnah Street and known as Pakistani Colony, they said. The agents woke the people up and went to their bedrooms to see if there were any suspects. They also checked their identification along with citizenship proof. There are three mosques in the area which are under strict surveillance after the September 11. Pakistani Americans have been living in the colony for more than 20 years. nni
Posted by: Mudy Sep 28 2004, 09:41 PM
Ouch, truth hurts
In a chapter titled ‘Remedies against terrorism,’ the book states: “Gujarat is a border state. Its land and sea boundaries touch the boundaries of Pakistan, which is like a den of terrorism.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 29 2004, 01:35 AM ISLAMAWORST : Denying a news report, Federal Information Minister Sheikh Rashid on Tuesday said President Pervez Musharraf and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh did not discuss Siachen at their recent meeting in New York. Talking to journalists in Italy, he also denied that President Musharraf had made any comment on the standoff between Iran and Israel. He said that although President Musharraf had speculated that Osama Bin Laden was alive, nobody knew where he was. app Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 29 2004, 03:35 AM thumbup.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 29 2004, 07:26 AM pakee.gif LONDON: Pakistani cricket legend Imran Khan was reportedly hauled up and grilled for three hours by US anti-terror cops, after arriving in Washington from London. According to The Sun , the incident which took place last month when Imran flew to the US representing Pakistan's Tehrik-e-Insaaf political party, has infuriated the Pakistani officials, who have now demanded an apology for the humiliating treatment of Pakistan’s acclaimed player-politician. The US Congress Customs has reportedly launched an inquiry into the incident. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 29 2004, 09:25 AM WASHINGTON: Had President Pervez Musharraf taken his finance minister Shaukat Aziz’s advise some years ago, Pakistan today would have been without PIA and the Steel Mill and, possibly, the National Shipping Corporation. The President told the Pakistani-American community when he addressed its large gathering here that Shaukat Aziz had told him to get rid of PIA and sell it for “one dollar”. He had offered the more or less the same advice for the Steel Mill, since both corporations were suffering massive losses. However, the president decided to follow his instinct rather than his finance minister’s advice and retained not only those two but the Pakistan National Shipping Corporation as well. Today, the president told his audience with pride, all three had “turned the corner,” with PIA having on order eight state-of-the-art Boeing 777s, three of which had already been delivered. He said there would soon be direct US-Pakistan flights. The Steel Mill and the PNSC were also today going concerns, he added. khalid hasan Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Sep 29 2004, 09:38 AM
Had President Pervez Musharraf taken his finance minister Shaukat Aziz’s advise some years ago,
Now he is a PM, he can sell Lotastan in Dime.
Posted by: Peregrine Sep 29 2004, 11:27 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Sep 29 2004, 10:08 PM)
Now he is a PM, he can sell Lotastan in Dime.
Mudy Ji : A Full Dime for Lotastaan? Ah! Too Much. I'd take my chances for a Nickel ROTFL.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: acharya Sep 30 2004, 05:08 PM
Good works Sir: This letter is in reference to Mr. Iftikhar Gilani’s article on the latest Indian census “Population figures and fear psychosis” (TFT Sep 17-23). For one, the raw data that has been initially reported was the truth, but not the whole truth. It has now come to light that the censuses of the two earlier decades did not include the Muslims of the northeast and Jammu & Kashmir. In addition, female infanticide has a role to play, as does bride-burning in non-Muslim families. It has also been revealed that there has been an increase in the number of people who, in earlier tallies, were counted as Hindus, but now claim to belong to other subgroups. An example of this is the Jain community, who have seen an exponential rise in their growth, which cannot be accounted for otherwise. Secondly, religion is a personal choice and it is nobody else’s business. I do not know about Pakistan, but in India converts to Islam maintain an unofficial caste system, though it is certainly not sanctioned. However, converts to Christianity have much more equality among themselves. It is true that there is often the lure of better economic prospects for the converted, but what’s wrong with that? An acquaintance in the Indian army who was once posted to the interior of Assam tells me how impressed he was with the services and education Christian missionaries provided to the tribals there. If Hindus or Muslims have a problem with that, they should provide similar assistance to the downtrodden, instead of fighting amongst themselves. Big industrialist names like Tatas and Birlas are famous for building big temples but I am not aware of any big charitable Hindu or Muslim organisation with a missionary zeal to match the Christians. Even Dr Ambedkar, the chief author of India’s constitution, converted to Buddhism in protest because he was an Untouchable. Many Dalits have followed suit, much to the chagrin of the forces of Hindutva, who harassed people wanting to become Buddhists in Delhi during the previous BJP government. It is sad that there are people, even today, who cannot go to some temples in South India. Who can blame them if the want to leave the tyranny of the Hindu caste system and embrace Christianity? Atul Barry, Louisville, Kentucky.
Posted by: acharya Sep 30 2004, 05:26 PM
Azim Premji is a Khoja Muslim. His high cheekbones suggest that his ancestors were not of Indian origin. I asked him how he had acquired a Hindu surname to which he replied that his family must have converted, way back in time and retained the business surname by which they were known. The family was in the cooking oil business and was affluent enough to send him to Stanford University in California. Compelled to return home without a degree at age 21 on the death of his father, he assumed charge of the family business in 1966. He finally got a degree in electrical engineering from Stanford in 1999. His strong ethical code is a family inheritance. It is in this context that he regards his wealth not as a family heirloom but as a trust. Check this Paki interviewing Premji Prometheus unbound MP Bhandara Indian IT tycoon Azim Premji may be one of the most powerful men in the world, but his heart lies in the schoolroom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Azim Premji After building an IT empire, Premji devoted his life to universal education Azim Premji stole the fire of information technology, and the Western world became his oyster The information technology explosion of the past two decades in India has created a few men of such enormous wealth that the fabled nizam of Hyderabad of yore might have looked no more than a lord attendant in the court of these new self-made dollar billionaires. One such person is Azim Premji. At 59 he has the visage of a reticent professor with a shock of white hair, but his short sleeves signal a hands-on approach. He’s a good listener with wide-open eyes focused on the interlocutor, he is an intensely private person. No Rolls Royce rider, he could be the man seated next to you in economy or business class, or abreast at a traffic signal in a nondescript car. In his corporate culture, no one travels first class. His headquarters in Bangalore, India, is a symphony in stone: there is slate, manicured greens and pools of reflective water; no architectural frills: the assemblage of buildings appears user-friendly and practical. The ambiance is that of a university campus and indeed this is actually what it is: a seat of learning. As he walked me out, he opened a door. A class for schoolteachers was in progress. For Mr Premji, education and teacher refresher courses are key to his vision for India in the 21st century. Educating the child for Mr Premji is not a pastime but a passion. Not for him the silly banalities of wealth or a broadcast on how he became a world leader in information technology. Nor does he pretend to be a guru on polities, or a pundit on futurology. To keep up with his status as a world leader in his chosen field of technology he has to be a workaholic. But his vision is for an even playing field for every child. Last week, WIPRO – his flagship company – was trading at $18 per share on the New York Stock Exchange, which gives WIPRO a market capitalization of $12.30 billion. The annualized sales of his company is around $1.50 billion with 80 percent generated in export earnings, of which North America is the prime customer. WIPRO provides software solutions and outsourcing services to large Western corporations employing about thirty-five thousand persons, mainly Indian. I asked him if he would like to develop Pakistan as a partner in this global enterprise. Yes, he replied. The Middle East is a huge market waiting to be tapped in which he could consider involving us; “but not via Dubai, which is against the spirit of our relationship. We must allow things to normalize.” Mr Premji’s big break came in the late seventies when IBM decided to quit India. This was no great loss: IBM were selling outdated computers and software at monopoly prices. This giant was convinced that they would soon be welcomed back by a penitent India, but in stepped Mr Premji who developed computer hardware partly with help from a small US company. He collected around him the best people he could find to build a team developing inexpensive indigenous computers and the necessary software. The cost of operating in India was a fraction of the costs in the West. Having stolen the fire of this technology, the Western world became Mr Premji’s oyster. This I think is a historical feat, because never before has an advanced technology been raided by a poor third world country and made into its own. The communications revolution capped this feat. Today, if a New Yorker calls his city’s phone directory to enquire a number in New York, the answer will come within seconds from an operator in Bangalore! This phenomenon, under the umbrella term “out-sourcing”, extends to banking accounts, medical prescriptions and many other services. Azim Premji is a Khoja Muslim. His high cheekbones suggest that his ancestors were not of Indian origin. I asked him how he had acquired a Hindu surname to which he replied that his family must have converted, way back in time and retained the business surname by which they were known. The family was in the cooking oil business and was affluent enough to send him to Stanford University in California. Compelled to return home without a degree at age 21 on the death of his father, he assumed charge of the family business in 1966. He finally got a degree in electrical engineering from Stanford in 1999. His strong ethical code is a family inheritance. It is in this context that he regards his wealth not as a family heirloom but as a trust. The Azim Premji Foundation is India’s largest child-centric developer in multiple local languages. In the current year his CD programs plan to reach out to two million children and 30,000 teachers in 10,000 schools. An observer estimates that his funding in child-centric programs is in the reach of about a hundred million dollars. Yet another observer remarked that he was a miser when it came to donating to the popular sort of charity that he does not believe in. “Keeping the faith,” says Premji is one of the most important lessons he has learnt in life. “We ran the marathon, but kept winning the 400 metres … too in the process. And we did that by keeping the faith,” he says in a letter to his stakeholders. The marathon he alludes to is the rigorous competition that the older IT business demand, and the 400 metre dash is the necessity of being at the cutting edge of innovation in a business which is all brain and no brawn. It’s a business that can turn like quicksilver from gold to brass if the synergies of faith and innovation are lacking. His company must continue to be the arrowhead of change in the IT services field if he is to retain world leadership, and the key is creating IT value for customers in a multicultural context. We discuss Indo-Pakistan relations. He considers trade and tourism will drive the Kashmir issue to a lower level of significance. He means to imply that in the context of normalization, it will be easier for India to reach accommodation on prickly issues. Indeed, this very thought was also echoed by the former Indian prime minister, Atal Bihari Vajpayee, whom I also met in Bangalore. If Azim Premji sees competition to India in the IT field – and there are at least two other major industry players in the country – it could be from Pakistan. “It is the same people with the same level of skills, all they need is development”. The US will continue to be the prime market in the foreseeable future for IT products. His young recruits culled from India’s famous ITT (Indian Institutes of Technology) network have to undergo a rigorous customer orientation and a multicultural grounding in the WIPRO “university”. What are we to make of the Azim Premji phenomenon? If the 19th century was the age of steam, and the 20th century that of the nuclear sciences, the Internet and its related information technologies are at the cusp of the 21st. These technologies hold the promise of expanding the frontiers of human freedom by opening the book of knowledge as never before. The great libraries of the world, technologies, international newspapers and works of art are all accessible to the inquisitive mind on one’s desktop by literally moving a finger. What this means in a country with a population of over a billion, with a per capita income of around $600 is to open up a huge mine of dormant intellectual wealth, the consequences of which are likely to be truly revolutionary. It speaks volumes that, having stolen the divine fire, Premji, unlike Prometheus, was not punished but rewarded. After all, in the beginning was the word.
Posted by: Viren Oct 1 2004, 07:31 AM,2933,134179,00.html
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 2 2004, 11:47 AM pakee.gif DELHI, Oct 1: India does not plan to withdraw troops from the Siachen Glacier and recent news reports claiming otherwise are ”pure speculation and a lie," liar.gif Indian Foreign Minister Kunwar Natwar Singh said on Friday. He was quoted by the United News of India (UNI) as talking to journalists in London. It appears from the report that the offending reports that prompted the remarks emanated from the "Pakistani press". Yet, Mr Singh's denial closely follows the announcement by Indian Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee that the Siachen issue would be discussed at the military level between the two countries. Mr Singh's remarks coincided with a report in Delhi's Business Standard newspaper on Friday that sought to strike down "speculation" about any proposal to withdraw Indian troops from Siachen. "Without trying to undermine the gains of the (Musharraf-Manmohan) meeting senior government sources clarified that the Siachen issue never came up in the conversation between the two leaders," the Standard said. The newspaper denied what it called were reports in the Pakistani media apparently claiming that India would withdraw troops on Pakistan's assurances that it would not seize the territory thus vacated. The Indian prime minister and his defence minister have discussed the "initiative that was not," according to the usually reliable Business Standard. Indian soldiers are currently deployed short of the glacier but with unimpeded access to the glacier, the territory they took in 1984, the report said. "Pakistan says their presence is in violation of the line NJ 9842, and wants India to go back to the 1972 position," it said in what appeared to be a deeply briefed report. Curiously, the report said: "Because this is disputed, maps are to be exchanged with positions of the armies marked on the maps. The task of identifying troops and procedure for withdrawal is what is to be negotiated." Having made that point, the report again quotes the unidentified senior source as saying: "Let us be clear. India is going to vacate no territory, assurances or no assurances from Pakistan." india.gif In London, Mr Singh also spoke of the initiatives taken by the Vajpayee government and the present Congress-led administration to push forward India-Pakistan relations. He said the composite dialogue was being carried forward and the meeting between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf in New York went extremely well. Mr Singh stressed that "President Musharraf has now said that he is not unifocal," according to UNI. He added that India had pointed out to Pakistan that despite the border dispute, "trade with China is slated to touch one billion dollars*** this year and we want this to happen with Pakistan." ***Typical Lotastaani Lies. India’s trade with China will approach USD 10 Billion. The Lotastaani Ten to One Ratio always shows up in respect of India. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 2 2004, 12:41 PM
India is going to vacate no territory
I don't understand why they even use this vocabulary "vacate" as if India had occupied piece of land of other country. It is part of India, what ever we do is none of Paki business.
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 2 2004, 03:08 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 3 2004, 01:11 AM)
I don't understand why they even use this vocabulary "vacate" as if India had occupied piece of land of other country. It is part of India, what ever we do is none of Paki business.
Mudy Ji : At least it pays put to the DDM which has been talking about giving “Miles” of Land to the East of the LOC as well as the Indian Army vacating Siachin. The following statement is not limited to any part of Kashmir and is “all encompassing” :
Having made that point, the report again quotes the unidentified senior source as saying: "Let us be clear. India is going to vacate no territory, assurances or no assurances from Pakistan."
Also this statement does not at any time state that India has accepted Pakistan’s Occupation of POK. After all Natwar Singh is as wily as they come. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 2 2004, 03:11 PM
QUOTE (Viren @ Oct 1 2004, 08:01 PM),2933,134179,00.html
Viren : Watch this space for further increases. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 2 2004, 04:17 PM India gave whole country to Muslim Pakistan, but these pakis are still fighting and killing each other. It is an Islamic country and they say Islam means peace, but why they are killing each other. Something is wrong with Pakis. I hope they should spend some good time to figure out Why? Either something wrong with 2 nation theory or Islam is not for peace or Pakistan is just a banana republic. biggrin.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 3 2004, 12:30 AM PESHAWAR: If Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf did not shed his uniform by December 31 he would be subverting the country's Constitution, and, hence, he would be liable to death punishment, Deputy Opposition Leader in the National Assembly Naib Amir Liaquat Baloch has said. Baloch, who is also the Naib Amir of the Jama'at-e-Islami, claimed that even 'Uncle Sam' (United States) would not be able to save the President from the capital punishment. According to The News , the leader said that Musharraf should be ready to face public resistance or leave both the offices in case he failed to honour the 17th Amendment. Baloch said this while addressing the second session of the JI convention in Peshwar on Saturday. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 3 2004, 12:41 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 3 2004, 04:47 AM) India gave whole country to Muslim Pakistan, but these pakis are still fighting and killing each other. It is an Islamic country and they say Islam means peace, but why they are killing each other.
Mudy Ji : If Lotastaan and its “break away” Bhookhanangadesh were not formed then we would be having these 300 Million Killers (in addition to the sizable number we have at the moment) of “Non-Muslims” running rampage in an Un-divided India. Now that in Lotastaan there are hardly any Hindus or Sikhs left to KILL therefore they have to kill each other. They cannot forget a Habit that has been passed on to them for the Last Fifteen Centuries. It is in their Genes.
Something is wrong with Pakis. I hope they should spend some good time to figure out Why?
There is nothing wrong with the Lotastanis. They are just practicing their natural talent at “Ritual Killing” – A talent that they have practiced for Fifteen Centuries.
Either something wrong with 2 nation theory or Islam is not for peace or Pakistan is just a banana republic.
- Nothing wrong with the Two Nation Theory. Thank God we got rid of them. - Islam is for Peace. After the Islamic Sword is Used there is the “Deathly” Peace. - A humble request : Please do not insult Banana Republics. What have they done to you to be insulted in such a manner? Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 3 2004, 04:31 AM
Mudy Ji: It seems that Dr. Farrukh Saleem frequents our Forum and has written this Article as an answer your queries. He should have titled the Article as ”Islam in Lotastaan”. May be you can drop him I line of thanks. Qazi Hussain Ahmed’s politics depend on a ‘crusade’, all but intrinsically hollow. President-in-uniform, General Musharraf seems to have refused to sign up for Qazi sahib’s crusade. Pakistan has been drifting toward extremism. Long before the coup of October 12, extremists have been preparing for and extremist coup’ of their own. Long before September 11, Pakistani extremists have been seeking to take control of the state, more than willing to use violence to achieve their objective. The fact is that our civilian institutional infrastructure has been in a state of long-term decay. Non-uniformed apologists argue, perhaps justifiably so, that Pakistan’s armed forces are to be blamed for weakening the civil society and its institutions. The fact remains that civil society’s institutions — like the Parliament, the Judiciary and the law enforcement agencies — are weaker today than they were five, ten or fifteen years ago. Pakistani liberals are torn between the often promised — but never realised — fruits of democracy and the impending real fight to save Pakistan from extremists. Pakistan is at risk of being hijacked by extremists. Who then will save Pakistan from extremists? Khaled Hamed al-Suleiman, a Saudi columnist, recently wrote: "They turned today’s Islam into something having to do with decapitations, the slashing of throats, abducting innocent civilians and exploding people. They have fixed the image of Muslims in the eyes of the world as barbarians and savages who are not good for anything except slaughtering people. The time has come for Muslims to be the first to come out against those interested in abducting Islam in the same way they abducted innocent children." Who in Pakistan will save Islam from extremists? Abdel Rahman Al-Rashed, General Manager of the Al-Arabiya News Channel, recently penned an article titled "Islam has to silence inciters of terrorism". Al-Rashed writes: "Bin Laden is a Muslim. The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and buildings, all over the world, were Muslim. What a pathetic record. What an abominable ‘achievement’. Does all this tell us anything about our societies, our culture and ourselves? Let us start with putting an end to a history of denial. Let us acknowledge their reality, instead of denying them and seeking to justify them with sound and fury signifying nothing. We must cure ourselves. Self-cure starts with self-realisation and confession. We should then run after our terrorist sons, the sour grapes of a deformed culture." Pakistani extremists are more willing now than ever before to join hands with secessionist forces. Parts of Pushtun and Baloch cultural sub-nationalism may now be seeking a room under the extremist umbrella as well. Just who is going to save Pakistan from disintegration? It may be true that some militant-leaning organisations have been tolerated by the Pakistani establishment. What is also true is that on August 14 2001, President Musharraf, in a televised speech to mark our Independence Day, outlawed the Sunni Lashkar-e-Jhangvi and the Shia Sipah-e-Mohammed. All I have is five questions. First, which Pakistani institution still has its professional integrity intact? Two, which Pakistani institution still has its organizational integrity intact? Three, which Pakistani institution is still guided by professional norms? Four, which Pakistani institution has the ability and the capability to silence "inciters of terrorism"? Five, who in Pakistan is the principal barrier to Pakistan’s movement toward extremism? Stephen Cohen, America’s foremost Pakistan expert, is of the opinion that "Although Pakistan still lacks a strong national identity and Islam — especially radical Islam — is not likely to provide one, the Pakistani state is nevertheless strong, and the army remains its core. Pakistan army officers are guided by professional military norms, not religious ones. Unless Pakistan is defeated in a war or undergoes an internal split of unprecedented magnitude — and neither scenario is likely — the army will retain its professional and organisational integrity and will prevent any radical Islamic group’s rise to power." Adds Cohen; the Pak Army remains the "principal barrier to Pakistan’s movement toward political extremism.” Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: acharya Oct 3 2004, 09:09 PM
A cross-culture couple now inviting public interest in London is Lady Gabrielle Windsor and the Bombay-born Aatish Taseer. Both met while studying in the US. Lady Gabrielle is British royalty being the daughter of the Duke of Kent and features on the line of succession even if it requires about a hundred people to pop off before she gets lucky. Aatish is the son of Tavleen Singh, a columnist in Bombay and is said to have recently been reunited with his estranged multimedia mogul father across the border (Indo-Pak, not Indo-Nepal). Royalty or not, they are said to have an important bond. It is said that both have British grandmothers and therefore share a line of descent. Something, it is said, at least one of the families heartily approves of.
Posted by: Bhootnath Oct 4 2004, 03:08 AM
Tavleen Singh, a columnist in Bombay ... Indian Express ??
Posted by: Mudy Oct 4 2004, 09:38 AM
Bhootnath---Tavleen Singh, a columnist in Bombay ... Indian Express ?? YES
An Indian has captured the heart of a royal lady. Lady Gabriella, 22, daughter of Prince and Princess Michael of Kent is being dated regularly by Aatish Taseer, 23, for several months and the two are said to be "blissfully happy" and "enjoying a full-on love affair". The Royal couple reportedly travelled to Bombay last month to meet Aatish and his mother Tavleen Singh, who is the well-known columnist. According to reports here Tavleen Singh said she knew nothing about the relationship between Ella (Gabriella) and Aatish. "They know each other well but I understand they are just good friends". Aatish who is working at Time Magazine in London as a trainee journalist has been quoted in the Mail on Sunday saying, "We're good friends and we have fun. We're young and it's no one's business what we're doing." The Prince and Princess Michael are both staunch Catholics, but they are said to be relaxed and happy that their daughter is dating Aatish, whose mother is a Sikh. His father is Salman Taseer, a Muslim from Pakistan. But Aatish is said to be a Sikh like his mother.,
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 4 2004, 03:25 PM
Here is a Lotastaani giving Lie to Riff Raff’s statement about Lotastannis speaking better English than Indians : Sir: These days, English spelling mistakes crop up everywhere — from hoardings and advertisements (including university advertisements) to shops and signboards. Sometimes one can smile at the spelling variations, but it grates on one’s nerves to see incorrect spellings appear in important places and official documents. One would expect that the inside of the PM’s secretariat would be spared such gaffes. But if one ventures inside, after of course being frisked by a security guard, one will see a sign pointing towards a “masque”, a “conference” and a “centeral”. It is quite unbelievable. While on a recent trip to Islamabad’s National University of Modern Lanugages (NUML), I decided to take a look at the MA theses in the university library. Most of them, including those of the English department, abbreviated Master of Arts on their covers and inside front page as “M.A”, that is, without the full-stop after “A”. This is no different to how the uneducated banner painters view the full-stop: a mere separator between letters rather than being indicative of an abbreviation. Since all these theses are supervised by the university faculty, it seems that they too must be unaware of this basic grammatical rule, or worse, they are just plain careless. After considerable difficulty, I managed to find the university’s prospectus. (I had to borrow one from a student, as the library did not have any.) NUML’s logo includes the motto, “Then Why Don’t You Think!”. This appears on every page of the glossy prospectus, including its front cover. There is nothing wrong with this motto, except that “Don’t” is spelled “Do’nt” It gets worse. Upon turning the pages of the prospectus, one finds that all the degree titles have been misspelled! A dean at NUML blamed these mistakes on the on-campus press. The press manager, for his part, put the blame on the editorial staff for not doing its job properly. Who is one to believe? Incidentally, the prospectus does not even include its publication date. I wonder who will take the blame for that. Even a national institute of languages makes mistakes in its grammar and spellings and when the PM secretariat does not care to display correctly spelled words on its notice boards — then we are all in trouble. For, as the saying goes: “The devil is in the detail”. Q ISA DAUDPOTA Islamaworst Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 5 2004, 06:22 AM Flush.gif MULTAN (October 05 2004): An astrologist here, Sana Khan, has predicted that the tenure of Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz will not be more than 16 months. Briefing about her latest findings, Sana said that 2005 was the last year of Shaukat Aziz's prime minister-ship, however, he would succeed in completing his task of putting the country on the right path, which leaded to economic stability, prosperity and integrity. India and Pakistan would have to be careful during the current month because some incidents of terrorism and subversion could occur in different cities, she said, adding. In Pakistan, those incidents might happen in Islamabad, Swat, Peshawar, Bahawalpur and Dera Ghazi Khan. She said she further foresaw that lunar eclipse on October 14 and solar eclipse on October 28 might create negative effects on the country's politics. Sana said Shaukat Aziz would do his best for achieving harmony between the opposition and General Pervez Musharraf to save his uniform but he could not achieve his objective. However, she said, he would have to face a few scandals and would be more popular as an economist and would grant attractive incentives. There would be a state of confrontation between the opposition and the government, the issue of uniform would take momentum, the exports and the imports would be declined and existing government would not be stable due to its policies, she said. The state of unrest would be developed among the traders and business community, she added. Copyright Business Recorder, 2004 Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 6 2004, 04:27 PM
One more Scam by the “Hanky Panky” pakee.gif Lotas : ISLAMAWORST : Sikandar Hayat Bosan, minister for food and agriculture, has ordered an inquiry against officials from the Food Ministry and the Trading Corporation of Pakistan for allegedly importing substandard wheat from Russia. Mr Bosan said that prime minister had also taken serious note of the scam and authorities were directed to finalise the inquiry by Friday. “The inquiry report will also be released to the media,” he added. Online Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 6 2004, 11:28 PM At least 38 people have been killed and more than 100 injured in two bomb blasts in the Pakistani city of Multan. Hundreds of people had gathered to mark the anniversary of the killing of militant Sunni leader Azim Tariq outside Islamabad last year. The attack is thought to have occurred at about 4.40am (2340 GMT Wednesday). It is not clear who carried out the attack, though it is suspected that radicals of the minority Shia community are responsible. "It seems to be an act of sectarian terrorism, but we are still investigating," Multan's deputy police chief Arshad Hameed told the Associated Press. The attack comes almost a week after a suicide attacker detonated a bomb inside a crowded Shia mosque in the eastern city of Sialkot, killing 31 people and injuring more than 50. It was the latest in a series of attacks against the Shia community in recent months in which more than 100 people have died. Hospital overwhelmed The attack occurred when the night-long public meeting called to galvanise support for the outlawed Sunni group Millat-e-Islami, was about to end. As a large number of people started to walk towards the car park, one of the vehicles exploded. The Associated Press reported that the first blast came from a car bomb, and another minutes later from a device on a motorcycle. Several people died and dozens were injured on the spot, but more were injured in a resulting stampede. "The explosion numbed our ears, we saw people falling on each other, everybody was crying, everybody was running," eyewitness Jamil Usmani said. Witnesses reported people being torn to pieces and screaming for help. Doctors at the city's main hospital said there were more injured in the casualty ward than they could handle. Pakistani Information Minister Sheikh Rashid condemned the attack. "It is an act of brutal terrorism aimed at creating instability in the country," he told AFP. Millat-e-Islami, formerly known as Sipah-e-Sahaba, was banned by the government last year along with a number of other Sunni and Shia groups because of their alleged involvement in sectarian violence. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 7 2004, 08:59 AM
LAHORE: The police has registered a case against 15 people from the Jamaat-e-Ahmadia for printing Aslam-o-Alaikum and Inshallah on wedding cards, Geo TV reported on Wednesday. Among those who are charged include three brides and three grooms. Abdul Wahid, a local chief of Almi Majlis-e-Khatm Nabuat in Kinry Town of Mirpur Khas, registered a case against an Ahmadi family which got these words printed on wedding cards, the TV channel quoted a report by BBC Urdu Service. Wahid said Ahmadis were non-Muslims and therefore they should not be allowed to write words representing Muslim culture.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 7 2004, 09:08 AM
Dostum alleged that Pakistani government is pressurising Afghan refuges to vote for Hamid Karzai
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 7 2004, 11:17 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 7 2004, 09:38 PM) Dostum alleged that Pakistani government is pressurising Afghan refugees to vote for Hamid Karzai
Mudy Ji : As per Uncle'S ORDERS Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 7 2004, 11:28 AM
Ofcourse US want its puppet to stay. But it depends lot on Dothsum. wink.gif Problem are with these Juma prayers, they should ban prayer meeting why to block marriages and funeral gathering.
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 7 2004, 03:12 PM Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 8 2004, 03:31 AM Quoted in Insaf, interior minister Faisal Saleh Hayat revealed that in all 21,741 passport copies had disappeared from the passports offices all over Pakistan in the past five years. Faisalabad topped the list with 3,975 blank passports, Quetta was at number two with 2,206, Dera Ismail Khan number three with 1,960, Sialkot number four with 1,121, Gujranwala number five with 1,000, Mohmand Agency number six with 500 and Muzaffarabad number seven with 184 passports. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 8 2004, 04:43 PM thumbup.gif KARACHI: Dr Tallat Wazzarat, a professor at Karachi University’s department of International Relations, said here on Friday that if India deprived Pakistan of water flowing into the rivers, it would not only ruin the country’s economy but the move could lead to inter-provincial “water wars.” Speaking on the concluding day of “Indus Delta-Eco Region International Conference” here, she said confidence-building measures (CBMs) were necessary to resolve the water issues between the two countries. The resolution of the Kashmir dispute will also help resolve the water conflict between the two countries, she added. Pakistan Fisherfolk’s Forum organized the conference in collaboration with European Commission. Dr Wazzarat said Pakistan had been stressing the legal and technical aspects of the issue in the backdrop of the Indus Basin Water Treaty signed between the two countries in 1960, while India has been trying to resolve the issue politically. She said Pakistan should try to resolve the water issue with India on a bilateral level, but should also seek third-party mediation if the need arises. She said there were water disputes all over the world because of the critical nature of this resource. She said with the passage of time this resource would become scarcer and it was high time that Pakistan and India peacefully resolved their disputes over water resources. An Article about the effects of “Water Shortage” on Lotastaani Grain Output : pakee.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 8 2004, 04:51 PM clap.gif LA WHORE: An Indian forum in the United States opposed any move to sell F-16 fighter aircraft to Pakistan after the presidential elections in November, Press Trust of India (PTI) reported on Friday. According to the news report, the Indian American Forum for Political Education, in a letter to US President George W Bush, said any such move would be “severely detrimental to the strengthening of Indo-US relations, which has touched an all-time high following efforts by the Bush administration”. PTI quoted IAFPE president Sudhir Parikh as saying, “Supplying sophisticated fighter aircraft to Pakistan will only stoke the flames of arms race in this region”. The letter, however, clarified that the forum was not against economic aid to Pakistan for literacy and other development programmes, the news report said. According to PTI, Parikh said in the letter that while the IAFPE had supported Bush’s bid for a second term at the White House, “reports of F-16 deliveries to Pakistan would make several members reconsider their endorsement.” He added that the proposed F-16 deliveries would also send a “negative message” to Indians throughout the United States and elsewhere. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 9 2004, 01:34 AM : ISLAMAWORST, Oct 9: Two Chinese engineers working at a hydro-electric power project in Pakistan have been kidnapped close to a tribal region where security forces have been hunting militants linked to al Qaeda, the government said today. "Yes, I confirm, two Chinese have been kidnapped, along with two Pakistani security personnel," Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed told Reuters, when asked about local news reports about the kidnapping in a region near the Afghan border. He said the missing Chinese had been working on the Gomal Zam Dam project. However, Ahmed said he could not say exactly where the men were abducted, or by whom they were being held. (Reuters) Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 9 2004, 08:24 AM
Two Chinese engineers kidnapped :
This I call trophy, It will be interesting to watch.
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 9 2004, 04:13 PM
KARACHI - Two unidentified assailants on Saturday evening gunned down Moulana Mufti Jamil, central leader of Aalmi Tahaffuz Khatme-e-Nubuwat and Qari Nazeer Ahmed Taunsi, organisation’s Sindh Ameer.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 9 2004, 08:12 PM
Pak a big threat to Mid-East' IANS [THURSDAY, OCTOBER 07, 2004 10:00:01 PM ] NEW DELHI: A former chief of Israel's intelligence agency on Thursday said that Pakistan and Iran posed the "biggest threat" to the future of the Middle East. "Pakistan, along with Iran, is the biggest threat to the future of West Asia, a major trouble spot in the world," said Uzi Arad, a former director of the spy agency Mossad and advisor to former prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu He said their nuclear programmes made Pakistan and Iran a major threat to the region. .... timesofindia.indiatimes.c...sraeli~spy
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 10 2004, 08:28 AM pakee.gif LA WHORE: At least three people were killed and eight others injured when a powerful bomb ripped through a Shiite Muslim mosque in the eastern Pakistani city of Lahore near Mochi Darwaza late Sunday, sources informed quoting the police. The bomb went off at a time when it was time for sunset prayer. The injured are being transported to Mewaa hospital, sources informed when this report was being filed. user posted image According an unidentified person was intercepted by a security guard at the mosque gate when he was trying to enter the mosque, who later opened fired and detonated a brief case he was carrying. The attacker too died on the spot as the bomb exploded. The guard also died, said the reports. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 10 2004, 11:19 AM ISLAMAWORST : President Pervez Musharraf Sunday said he believed Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was alive but he was unsure where he was hiding. "I do believe that he is hiding somewhere and I think he is alive," Musharraf told reporters at a joint press conference after holding talks with visiting German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder. Asked if he believed bin Laden was in the area along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border, Musharraf said, "I can't be oneFour hundred percent sure if he is in the border region. He can be there or he cannot be there." Musharraf said bin Laden, considered the mastermind of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, "is an enemy who is hiding." "We are not 400% sure when we can track him down." Pakistani security forces have been conducting search operations in the rugged tribal terrain near the Afghan border against Al-Qaeda fugitives since last year. Pakistan, a key ally in the US led war against terrorism, has arrested some 600 Al-Qaeda linked militants, majority of them handed over to the US custody. Schroeder for his part welcomed the "courageous role Pakistan played in the fight against terrorism, despite the considerable risks." Earlier, Pakistani premier Shaukat Aziz hailed the election in Afghanistan during a meeting with Schroeder, saying the poll would usher in a better future for the war-torn country. "I think the elections will be well for Afghanistan," Aziz told the German leader, who arrived for a 24-hour visit before heading to Afghanistan. "Pakistan fully supports this electoral process," he said, adding that the reelection of incumbent Afghan President Hamid Karzai would bring stability. Aziz played down the boycott action by opposition candidates over allegations of election irregularities. "I know that there were some issues related to the elections but this was all done under the UN supervision and under external review." "I am confident that this (election) will lead to a better era for Afghanistan," Aziz said. Schroeder, who is accompanied by a large delegation of industrialists and business executives, said Germany was interested in increased cooperation with Pakistan. The two sides also discussed the fight against terrorism. "This is a challenge for the world, we need to cooperate," Schroeder said. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 11 2004, 03:24 AM
Posting here as I am sure there is a Lotastaani – ISI – Al Qaeda connection : A bomb has exploded at the Indonesian embassy in Paris, injuring up to 10 people including embassy staff. The explosive device was in a parcel planted at the base of a flagpole outside the embassy, French Interior Minister Dominique de Villepin said. Flying glass caused most of the injuries, officials said. Four embassy staff are said to be among those hurt. France said later it was boosting security around embassies and other "sensitive sites". ”No specific threats” Indonesia's president-elect, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, said the blast was a terrorist act. "I strongly condemn the terrorist act done at the Indonesian embassy in Paris," said Mr Yudhoyono, who is to be sworn in later this month. "I do hope the government of France will take appropriate action to bring the perpetrator to justice," he told reporters. Windows of nearby buildings and cars were shattered by the blast, which left a small crater in the street. The embassy is at 47-49 Rue Cortambert. It is not known who was behind the explosion, which startled residents of Paris' exclusive 16th district at around 0500 local time (0300 GMT). "I had the impression I was being hurled from my window," a local woman, Annie Mayret, told the Associated Press news agency. Mr de Villepin said he was not aware of any specific threats but the blast was "obviously an act with criminal intent". Police investigators had sealed off the street around the embassy and were combing it for clues. Militants linked to Islamist causes have repeatedly struck at western targets in the world's most populous Muslim nation, most recently bombing the Australian embassy in Jakarta. Both Paris and Jakarta have been vocal critics of the US-led campaign in Iraq. Cheers
Posted by: Mudy Oct 11 2004, 09:55 AM
Few days are left between Nov 2. Rif raff is great grambler, he is checking President poll, Till Bush rating is down he will keep OBL, his trouphy in his basement.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 11 2004, 11:35 AM Foreign goods are cheaper than the local ones. Importers and manufacturers demand law to protect local industry and legal trade By Ali Raza Smuggled Indian and Chinese products have invaded the city markets and are giving tough time to the local industries as consumers prefer smuggled items because they are cheaper than the local products. Besides the city markets, the suburban areas of Lahore are also flooded with these daily use things. Smuggled goods are easily available and the situation has become so bad that products such as many premium varieties of cigarettes, soaps, shaving blades etc which are either locally produced or being legally imported, face a tough competition from their smuggled counterparts. While the menace of smuggling has left hardly any sector untouched in Pakistan there are certain items which are smuggled more than the others. They include electronics items such as CD players, televisions, tape recorders, blenders, mixers, juicers, radio, refrigerators, irons; garments, cloth and a wide range of toiletries, perfumes and cosmetics. One can easily buy a range of known smuggled cigarettes, perfumes, electrical and electronic items, and even shoe polish from the Lahore’s biggest whole sale market -- Shah Alam Market. Anarkali, Liberty and Ichhra are also known for smuggled items. Similarly, a number of medicines produced in India by multinational pharmaceutical companies are being smuggled into the country. Those medicines are selling at ten times higher prices here than that in India. Innocuous looking children’s toys, watches, batteries, sports shoes, umbrellas, bicycles are the items which are also easily available. Chinese batteries, for instance, are being sold at a third of the cost of local ones. Chinese-made cordless phones sell at half and energy-saving bulbs cost a third. The local manufacturers fear that they will have to stop production if the influx of cheaper foreign goods continues. Different trade bodies are also making hue and cry over the flood of Indian and Chinese products. According to the figures of the Ministry of Interior goods worth over Rs 100 billion are annually being smuggled into Pakistan from different channels, causing a loss of over 30 billion annually to the national exchequer. Smuggling has, over the decades, assumed an alarming proportion and turned out to be a parallel economy which is depriving the country of its rightful levies including excise and customs duty worth over 100 billion rupees as per independent estimate, says Naveed Butt, an importer, while talking to TNS. He said thousands of industrial units have been rendered sick due to the availability of smuggled goods in open markets. Because of successive governments’ willful avoidance to curb the menace, mushroom bara markets have sprung up almost in every major city and town, stuffed with smuggled goods including cloth, crockery, electronic gadgets etc, he said, adding there is an immediate need to check and stop this to give breathing space to our own industry. Rizwan, an importer says smuggling of silk and other products from China, Iran and other neighbouring countries has become a common feature due to negligence of customs officials. He further says there is a big difference in rates between the products of locally made goods and smuggled ones. He claims owing to smuggling of different goods not only the textile sector is facing crisis but its affiliated sectors like sizing, weaving, chemical, and hosiery are also on the verge of closure. Khurshid Butt, a paper manufacturer says smuggling has broken the backbone of small traders as they are running from pillar to post to sell their products in the market at throwaway prices. He apprehended that in case the government agencies fail to take cognizance of the situation, thousands of local industrial units would become idle. Anti Smuggling Organisation (ASO) of Pakistan Customs is the body which was formed to combat smuggling, but the situation reflects that this body has completely failed to control the situation. Importers allege that officials of this organisation are busy in minting money from the genuine importers by harassing them in different ways including seizing the legally imported consignments. Abid Malik, an importer says he came back to Pakistan from USA only because of patriotism, but here things were too difficult and one cannot do a legal business smoothly. He says he was thinking to wind up his import export and transportation business. On March 25, 2004 the ASO officials raided at his office and seized 88 bags full of imported almonds (without shell). He went to the Additional Collector Customs Junaid Akram and informed him that the almonds were imported according to law and also showed him the bill of entry and sales tax receipts. "Junaid Akram simply referred me to the then Superintendent ASO Chaudhry Shafaat who handed my case to the then deputy superintendent Waqar Cheema and finally my case was sent to the same official against whom I was complaining," he adds. He later approached Collector Customs (Adjudication) Raja Akhtar Tahir who held hearing of the case on March 30, 2004 and ordered the ASO to give back the goods to the company. In his order, the Collector Customs (Adjudication) made an observation: "Before parting with this order, I would like to point out that the respondent Abid Saleem leveled serious allegations of harassment against the seizing staff." Abid says that this was not the first time that such a treatment was meted out to them. He produced copies of orders of various adjudicating authorities who had vacated similar seizures but this high-handedness still continues. He was advised to approach the concerned authorities for the redressal of his grievances. A leading industrialist says his production has witnessed a fall of over 35% in the last one year due to dwindling sales of his products. "Chinese and Indian varieties, especially for ladies outfits, are finding their way into the market through mis-declaration, under-invoicing and smuggling," he disclosed. Meanwhile the ASO demanded extra funds from the Central Board of Revenue (CBR) to stop the flood of smuggled items in the Lahore region. Officials of the agency say Lahore is the main consumption market of smuggled goods and items prone to smuggling are cloth, synthetic yarn, electric home appliances, crockery, petroleum products, auto parts, ball bearing, razor blade, pad lock, dry battery cell, tea, black pepper, shampoo, soap, chewing tobacco and betel nuts. Besides this arms and ammunitions and narcotics are also at the top of the list of smuggle items. A senior ASO official said the department has demanded extra funds to improve its basic infrastructure to run proper anti smuggling operations in Lahore Region. Lack of vehicles, arms and ammunition, motorcycles, night visions, laptop computers and latest communication systems besides test tubes for on-the-spot checking of chemicals and drugs, was the main cause behind a slow drive against smuggling. Recently, the ASO was divided into three parts -- anti smuggling, investigation and prosecution and anti drug cells to effectively run a campaign against smuggling. Superintendent Anti Smuggling Squad Shujah Kazmi says ASO confiscated smuggled items including four vehicles, imported cloth and other items worth over Rs 40 million in a campaign against smuggling.
Posted by: Sunder Oct 11 2004, 12:11 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 11 2004, 10:25 PM)
Few days are left between Nov 2. Rif raff is great grambler, he is checking President poll, Till Bush rating is down he will keep OBL, his trouphy in his basement.
I am expecting Musharraf to call Bin Laden up on PTV and ask him to apologise in english, and then call him his herro and pardon him.
Posted by: Viren Oct 12 2004, 07:07 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 11 2004, 12:55 PM)
Few days are left between Nov 2. Rif raff is great grambler, he is checking President poll, Till Bush rating is down he will keep OBL, his trouphy in his basement.
I doubt he'll ever be caught alive. If he's in any prison there'll a series of hijacks or Beslan type attempts to get him out. If he's killed, he'll be made a martyr and the spot will be filled up immediately by a dozen islamists. An analyst on TV had once mentioned it's in our interest to keep him alive but on the run - kind of dhobi ka - na ghar ka na ghat ka.
Posted by: Mudy Oct 12 2004, 11:56 AM JOSY JOSEPH TIMESOFINDIA.COM[ TUESDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2004 08:43:03 AM ] NEW DELHI: There is nothing in history like a hurt and humiliated Super Power. In case you don't have any idea, just look across the border to Pakistan. As its global blitzkrieg against terrorism continue to throw up unexpected results, United States of America has tightened its vice-like grip on its frontline ally, the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Performance Indicators Baseline Year 2001 * No indigenous ability to screen people entering or leaving Pak Target 2002 * Installation of PISCES at five major airports * Designation of Federal Agency by president for terrorism investigation Target 2003 * Installation of PISCES at all entry and exit points Target 2004 * PISCES fully operational and integrated with National Crisis Management Cell Target 2005 * Pak assumes responsibility for operation of PISCES Source: US Mission Performance Plan is in possession of documents, detailing the unshakeable grip of a million American tentacles that have an all pervading grip on Pakistan's present and future. The documents reveal how the US has mapped Pakistan's year-wise targets, details of various schemes that would give the global superpower an unhindered influence over General Musharraf's Pakistan. Put together, they read like the British crown's annual plans for one of its colonies from a bygone era. Investigations reveal that US has a free run over almost every aspect of Pakistan's national life, including sensitive national records and data. The US has Pakistan all wired up in a highly sophisticated network of software systems, with direct access to information including that of every one entering or leaving Pakistan. The Personal Identification Secure Comparison Evaluation System (PISCES), an automated border control system, is being implemented in 20 ports of immigration in Pakistan. According to latest information, all points of entry and exit in Pakistan would have PISCES system by Dec 31, 2004. Believed to have been developed by Virginia-based consulting firm Booz Allen Hamilton for CIA before 9/11, PISCES uses biometric details to match facial images, fingerprints and biographical descriptions with the CIA data bank in the US. PISCES at Pakistani ports is believed to be linked to a central server in the US through high-speed network where American officials monitor and analyse details of passengers, matching them with suspects' data. In November 2001, a few months after 9/11 attacks, at the behest of the US government, Karachi International Airport became the first Pakistani port to implement PISCES. PISCES is being installed in over a dozen high risk countries of the world at America's instance. However, in Pakistan's case, has detailed American plans showing that PISCES is being linked up to Pakistan's internal national information making the situation much more complex. According to the Mission Performance Plan set by the US embassy in Islamabad, America is presently involved deeply in prodding and forcing Pakistani authorities to develop national intelligence and criminal databases which did not exist till 2001. Surprisingly this database is linked to the PISCES border control system which is in the hands of US officials. In the mission document targets, by 2004 end the PISCES system would be "fully operational and integrated with National Crisis Management Cell's intelligence and investigative database". In 2003, the US embassy was aiming to develop "fully functional intelligence and investigative database" link between provincial Crime Investigation Departments and National Crisis Management cell". And in 2003 itself, the American plan reveals: "intelligence and investigative database linked with other similar programs, including PISCES border control system." Startlingly, only in 2005 will Pakistan assume "responsibility for continued operation of PISCES system." Till then, the US counter-terrorism officials would have control over the sophisticated system that not only records details of every person leaving or entering Pakistan, but would also transmit these details to the central servers of FBI and CIA back in the US. Details of PISCES installation are detailed in the Mission Performance Plan for 2004, prepared about a year after 9/11 in 2002, and in possession of . Besides PISCES, thousands of closed circuit television networks are being installed across Pakistan. Over the last two years US policies regarding Pakistan have been unfolding as scripted in the Mission Performance Plan for 2004. Several of the targets detailed in the plan have been met, some chunk of the arms and military wares listed for supply have already been delivered, and funding programmes are already on course. The only area where the US is going slow is in re-imposing democracy, and that is understandable given their over-dependence on General Musharraf. It is not just in the virtual networks that America has Pakistan in its grip, it stretches beyond. Some of it is positive in the long run for Pakistan, like the modern road networks that are going deep into the under-developed Federally Administered Tribal Areas.
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 12 2004, 11:43 PM
To those who have wondered about the Grippen, F-16 etc. purchases as reported by , Aroosa Alam, the defence journalist for the Pakistan Observer, here is Ms. Alam’s Pedigree. This Old Article also highlights the workings of the Lotastaani Government – Civil as well as Military – from Lotastaani Red Light Areas, something which is stil prevalent today : Once among the country's most influential individuals, General Rani is now just a faded page in the country's history books. The woman was a phenomenon. Easily the most influential figure during Pakistan's second military regime, with the slightest gesture of her bejewelled hand she could guarantee employment, ensure promotions and bring about unwelcome transfers. Yet, interestingly, few even know her real name: Akleem Akhtar. General Rani she was, and remains to all but an intimate few. There are enough reasons for the lady's ascension to local legend status. In her glory days she seemed omnipotent and was brazen about her exploits. And now, even while suffering from breast cancer that has led to metastasis in the liver and kidney, bedridden and in semi-seclusion, she remains spirited and outspoken. Yet, doing a story on her was probably the most difficult assignment I have undertaken. For one thing, everyone I was certain was acquainted with her, was reluctant to even own up to the fact that they knew her. So, for starters, I made a call to her daughter, Aroosa Alam, the defence journalist for the Pakistan Observer and the news coordinator for the Middle East Broadcasting Company, and pop star Fakhre Alam's mother. Aroosa nipped all efforts at contact with her mother in the bud, claiming that not only was General Rani far too unwell to entertain visitors, but also, her brothers were completely against their mother appearing in the press. "My mother has been hurt sufficiently by the media already; we don't want her private life exploited any further," stated a stern Aroosa. A call to Naureen and Arshad Sami, Adnan Sami Khan's parents, proved equally unsuccessful. Although General Rani is Naureen's maternal aunt, she politely but firmly denied even knowing the lady. There was a similar response from Zil-e-Huma, whose mother Madame Nur Jehan's friendship with General Rani was legion. Huma completely denied any knowledge of the woman. A journalist working for the Jang group, Maqsood Butt nearly had an apoplexy when I mentioned the story I was working on. While in the past Maqsood Butt had written extensively on this topic and is said to have close ties with the family, he has for several years, refrained from even bringing up her name in an article. "I promised her that I would never talk about her or her family again," he stated nervously and refused to help me in any way. Clearly, the woman I was seeking out was no ordinary woman. As I kept running into a blind alley and became increasingly despondent, General Rani's lawyers, S. M. Zafar and Ijaz Batalvi, Mustafa Khar, and a few journalists and government officials who wish to remain anonymous, appeared like beacons and lit my way. A sneak visit was arranged to General Rani's house and thereupon begins this story. The house General Rani resides in is rather small, with little more than a handkerchief-sized lawn in front, and the main door opening into a virtually non-existent hall that leads straight to her room. There was an air of neglect about the house; the garden was unkempt and the floor unswept. General Rani was lying in bed. My first impression was one of shock. Having visualised an elegant, elderly woman, I was instead confronted by a dark, overweight woman. Her hair had obviously suffered due to heavy doses of chemotherapy, and the loss of hair accentuated the pock-marks on her face. But though visibly ill, she was in good spirits and happy to entertain visitors - a commodity I suspect, is a rare treat nowadays. General Rani hails from a village in Gujarat. Her father was a zamindar and the family was reportedly well-to-do. Those who knew her family describe their house as one of the bigger mansions in the area, with a number of servants running around to the residents' bidding. From the outset, Akleem was an independent spirit. She was a tomboy, fond of outdoor sports and hunting. And though she did not even complete her matric, her sharp intelligence more than compensated for her lack of education. At a tender age she was married to a police officer many times her senior. Though the marriage lasted for some time and she bore six children, General Rani was never happy. Her husband was a traditionalist and believed that a wife's primary duty was to serve her husband. A woman as strong and independent as she found this hard to digest, and squabbles were common between the two. The sham their marriage was eventually reduced to, collapsed one day - right on Murree's Mall Road. One summer, when the family was vacationing in Murree, a burqa-clad Rani and her husband went for a stroll on the Mall. As was customary for him, he walked a step or two behind her so as to keep an eye on her. Suddenly there was a gust of wind - "a lovely breeze" says she, and quite spontaneously Rani lifted the naqab covering her face to allow the breeze to caress her cheeks. Her husband immediately tapped her with his walking stick to reprimand her. Enraged and insulted, she threw caution to the wind and flung her naqab to the ground, and her abaya into a cracking fire. She then turned to face her husband with a defiant gleam in her eyes. She explains her reaction in these words: "I just felt I had had enough. The anger and frustration had been building up inside me for many months, but that day, it just all came oozing out. I wanted to tear my husband's muffler into bits, scratch his face, pull his hair out, and do all sorts of damage to him. The only thing that stopped me were the people on the Mall." Though this incident marked the end of her marriage, the official divorce process (if there was one) took place later. Most sources agree that Rani was only married once, but one of her closest friend states that there was a second marriage, much later in her life and of an extremely short duration. Whatever the truth of that marriage, the dramatic end of her first proved a turning point in her life and transformed Rani irrevocably. She began to thrive on her independence and her life philosophy evolved into a specific ambition. As she puts it, "I was determined to beat men at their own game. Since my husband was in the police, I had been observing men in positions of power throughout my married life and I had realised that all men in positions of power needed a vent and the vent they require the most is a bedmate provided through a reliable agency. The higher a man's position, the greater his demand." In one interview, Rani stated: "I knew that dumb, pretty girls who come with no strings attached are a universal failing of men in power. After my marriage collapsed and I had to find the means to support myself and my children, I decided to become the provider of such girls to men in need." In yet another conversation, she talked about the understanding she gained of the workings of the government by listening to her husband's complaints. "I realised that in this country everything worked on mutual favours and the profession that I had chosen for myself entitled me to these favours." This outspokenness notwithstanding, Rani maintains she personally never allowed herself to be used or even thought of as any man's keep. She contends she maintained her dignity and saw herself as a sexless mother figure. She says she was always the woman behind the scenes, there to run the show and mop up the mess. The gods were obviously smiling on her, because soon after she adopted this profession, the man who was soon to run the show took a shine to her. She describes her first meeting with Yahya Khan. "At that time Agha Jani was posted at Kharian and I was living in Gujarat. We met by chance at a party in Pindi club. Though I would often frequent such parties, I never joined in the drinking and dancing. Rather, I preferred sitting some distance away from the party and usually found a seat near the men's room, well aware of the fact that the more they drank the more visits they would have to make to the toilet and hence past me. "Agha Jani was in full swing at this party. He was completely drunk, and was continually traipsing back and forth from the men's room. During one of these visits, he saw me and took a fancy to me. I remember asking about him and after we were formally introduced, I invited him to Gujarat." Thereafter Yahya Khan began making frequent journeys from Kharian to Gujarat. Somewhere along the way she earned the title of General Rani and the name stuck. While speculation about the exact nature of her relationship with Yahya Khan rages - they were said to be friends, lovers, shared a sibling relationship or one of demand and supply at various times through the course of their relationship - the general consensus among Rani's more intimate circle is that they never had a physical relationship. Various explanations are put forth to explain this. "Yahya never desired her," says a friend. "She was a woman of principles and from day one, she made it clear to him what her limits were," states another. Nonetheless, after he became the martial law adminstrator, Rani became a cornerstone in his life. Yahya's weaknesses were drink and women and Rani masterfully catered to both. Among the women she introduced him to were film actress Taranna - film actress Andleeb's mother - Madame Nur Jehan and Nael Kamal. She relates how Yahya's fascination with Nur Jehan began. "One night Agha Jani came to visit me and was somewhat agitated. The moment he entered, he inquired if I had heard the song "cheeche da chala" from the film Dhee Rani. I smiled and stated that I had no time to listen to songs. So, he called the military secretary and ordered him to have a copy of the song delivered to my house at once. It was two o' clock in the morning and the MS had to specially have an audio shop opened up in order to obtain the album. But the command was obeyed and within an hour, Agha Jani was blissfully listening to the song. "Observing him I smiled and stated that since he seemed to enjoy the song so immensely, I would bring the singer to his house on his birthday. This greatly pleased him and so the very next day, I took a flight to Lahore. In those days, a suite at the Intercontinental Hotel was permanently reserved for me and so from the airport, I went directly to the hotel. From there I called Nur Jehan and asked her to come and meet me. Till now, I had never been formally introduced to her; I just knew of her, as she knew of me. Well, Nur Jehan came, and we talked, and the next week she arrived in Islamabad to dance and sing for General Yahya Khan." Madame Nur Jehan's relationship with General Yahya Khan subsequently came under great scrutiny. At first, Madame persistently denied that she was on friendly terms with the general, but when objectionable pictures of both of them were printed, she resorted to another defence and officially stated that General Rani, had time and, again tried to get her involved with the general. In response to this, Rani laughed and commented that Madame was hardly a suckling infant who could be coerced into doing what others wanted her to do. The Rani-Nur Jehan tussle was played up by the press, until eventually, some time before the latter's death, the two made up. Following is an extract from an interview General Rani gave after Madame's death. Q: Why did you introduce Madame Nur Jehan to General Yahya Khan? A: Some tax inspectors were bugging Madame Nur Jehan and the poor woman was in great distress. She asked me to help her out and I introduced her to Agha Jani. Q: How would you define your relationship with Nur Jehan? A: She was just like my sister and I often called her baji. Q: How would you describe her character? A: She was an exceptionally brave and confident woman, who brought up her children singlehandedly. The only flaw she had was her greed for money. Q: It is said that Madame tried to drive a wedge between you and Yahya Khan? A: I don't want to say anything on this issue. If Rani catered to Agha Jani's every whim, there is no question that she was royally compensated. During Yahya Khan's time, General Rani prospered way beyond her wildest expectations. There are endless reports of how she would use her 'special relationship' with Yahya to fill her coffers. She would ask for a plot of land or a house in return for a favour and those desperate for a job or promotion would readily fulfill her demands. During this time, politicians were also eager to win her approval and among the many who curried her favour were Mustafa Khar and Z. A. Bhutto. General Rani describes her relationship with these two men: "Both Mustafa Khar and Z. A. Bhutto would come and sit at my house for hours on end, begging me to introduce them to the General. Mustafa Khar was particularly fond of listening to the poems I used to write. In fact if you compare Yahya Khan to these two, I would say that I was closer to Bhutto and Khar and arranged more parties for them than I did for Agha Jani." It was a closeness that was not to endure. As soon as Bhutto came to power, General Rani was put under house arrest and her telephone connection was cancelled. Her crime in the words of an eminent lawyer was that, "she knew too much." Thus began General Rani's downfall. Once the issue of house arrest was resolved (courtesy S. M. Zafar) and her subsequent jail terms ended (the most recent for drug-trafficking), General Rani never really reverted to her former glory. By now the money that had so freely flowed into her hands had also freely flowed out. Financially wrecked, socially ostracised, dependent only on the kindness of a few whose affections for her have endured, General Rani lives largely in the past - in the memory of days of wine and roses. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 13 2004, 09:51 AM clap.gif
“Under the directive of General Pervez Musharraf, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain declared that Kashmir was not the jugular vein of Pakistan. Later, Minister of Information Sheikh Rashid repeated Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain’s statement,” said PML-N Information Secretary Muhammad Siddiqul Farooq at a press conference to mark the 5th anniversary of the 1999 military coup. Despite General Musharraf’s complete retreat from the cause of Kashmir, India has again hardened its stance with demands for more concessions, he added. “It (India) probably wants Azad Kashmir too, because, according to Indian Foreign Minister Natwar Singh, all of Kashmir including Azad Kashmir, is an integral part of India,” he said.
KUCHH NA KUCHH TO HONA THA Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 13 2004, 10:23 AM
LOTASTAANIS SPEAK BETTER ENGLISH THEN INDIANS – RIFF RAFF pakee.gif user posted image However their Spelling and Grammer is Atrocious i.e. Lotastaani S & G destroys Lotastaani H & D Flush.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 14 2004, 06:41 AM pakee.gif One Chinese hostage held by Islamic militants in South Waziristan has been killed and one freed in a dramatic rescue mission by Pakistani forces. All five kidnappers were killed, military spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan said. liar.gif A Pakistani guard and a soldier who were also taken captive had been released earlier. Kidnap leader, Abdullah Mehsud, who was at a separate location, had demanded safe passage for his men. Gen Sultan told the AFP agency: "One is dead. Unfortunately he has succumbed to his injuries. One is absolutely safe." Explosives Information Minister Sheikh Rashid Ahmed said security forces began the rescue after hearing shots from inside, raising fears for the hostages' safety. Foreign Minister Khursheed Kasuri later visited the Chinese Embassy in Islamabad to convey his condolences. user posted image Abdullah Mehsud was held for 25 months in Guantanamo Bay In a statement, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman, Zhang Qiyue, said: "We express profound grief over the unfortunate death of the abducted Chinese engineer and extend deepest condolences to his family." The statement thanked Pakistan for its efforts. Mehsud had earlier insisted his men must have safe passage in return for the release of the Chinese, Wang Ende and Wang Teng, from the surrounded mud compound near Chagmalai. A tribal delegation sent by the Mehsud tribe had earlier failed to secure any releases. Mehsud was freed in March after 25 months in US custody in Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. There is no word on his whereabouts now. Pakistani officials said he was also demanding an end to military operations against al-Qaeda fighters and tribesmen supporting them in the Waziristan region. Ali Ahmad Mehsud, a tribal escort who was taken hostage but freed along with three other tribesmen, said the kidnappers had been armed with five Kalashnikovs, a rocket launcher and eight hand-grenades. He said the hostages had been handcuffed and their legs chained. They were also reported to have had explosives strapped to them. Wang Ende and Wang Teng were working on Pakistan's Gomal Zam Dam project for a Chinese state-run company when they were seized in the Chagmalai area. Pakistan began large-scale military operations against alleged al-Qaeda fighters in Waziristan in March. The army says it has killed at least 150 militants since then. More than 100 troops have been killed. liar.gif Cheers
Posted by: Mudy Oct 14 2004, 09:03 AM
Difference between US and Chinese hostage crisis in Pakistan. For Chinese they called commando raid and must have paid etc to rescue them. For US Mushy wait till he returns from US after denial of F-16s and he deliveries dead US citizen. That is called Paki justice.
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 14 2004, 11:07 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 14 2004, 09:33 PM)
Difference between US and Chinese hostage crisis in Pakistan. For Chinese they called commando raid and must have paid etc to rescue them. For US Mushy wait till he returns from US after denial of F-16s and he deliveries dead US citizen. That is called Paki justice.
Mudy Ji Four persons were kidnapped i.e. Two Chinese Engineers, One Lotastaani Soldier and One Lotastaani Guard. One of the Chinese Engineers Died. The other Chinese Engineer is injured and receiving Medical Care. However both the Loatastaanis were released earlier This is the crux of the matter. The Lotastaanis – especially in Balochistan and now in FATA - in general (Not the Military ones) hate the Chinese and this is manifested by the Chinese “Metal” Company finally giving up and leaving their Balochistan Mining concession. I think Riff Raff and the Pakjabi Faujis have a fight on their hands with the Balochistanis as well as the “FATA” people. Regarding the “Kamandu” Attack for the Chinese Hostages : I think it was an act of “Bravado” by the Lotastaanis to impress their Underwear Friends. Let us see if the second Chinese Engineer who was taken hostage – the Injured One – survives. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 14 2004, 11:50 AM
I think Riff Raff and the Pakjabi Faujis have a fight on their hands with the Balochistanis as well as the “FATA” people
Yes, very close to another partition of Pakistan.
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 14 2004, 03:17 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Oct 15 2004, 12:20 AM)
Yes, very close to another partition of Pakistan.
Mudy Ji : TATHAAUSTU Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 14 2004, 04:45 PM These days, English spelling mistakes crop up everywhere from hoardings and advertisements (including university advertisements) to shops and signboards. Sometimes one smiles at the spelling variations, but it is irritating when one comes across such mistakes in important places and documents. Even the PM’s secretariat is not spared of such gaffes. After being frisked by a guard, one can find a number of things misspelt, for instance, ‘masque’, ‘conferance’ and ‘centeral’ etc. While going through the prospectus of National University of Modern Languages (NUML) in Islamabad, I found some mistakes. Use of abbreviations is common. NUML’s monogram, “Then why don’t you think!” appears on every page of the glossy prospectus, including the cover. Do not is written as ‘Don’t’. Inside, all the degree titles are misspelled! A dean at NUML complained that the oncampus press made these mistakes. When the press manager was shown the mistake on the cover of the prospectus, he said that the editorial staff did not do its job well. Who should be believed? When a national institute of languages messes up with spellings and a department such as the PM secretariat is least bothered about the errors, how can other mistakes be rectified? – Q. ISA DAUDPOTA, Islamabad, via e-mail, October 4. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 14 2004, 05:00 PM Five years ago General Pervez Musharraf made many promises. He has kept some and broken others. He has faced many problems. Some he has resolved while others remain. Some people are happy with him, some are not. How should one objectively grade his performance? What will be his legacy when he departs? Six broad achievements can be credited to General Musharraf. First, the economy was in the dumps in 1999. Today it is growing at 6%. We have a stable currency, a buoyant stock market, rising tax revenues, high forex reserves and home remittances. Inflation remains manageable. Manufacturing growth is poised to leap ahead while the agricultural sector boasts the best cotton crop in over a decade. Privatisation is proceeding apace. Regulation is being strengthened. Best of all, the IMF is packing its bags. Sure, the compulsions of 9/11 have much to do with the turnaround but if the opportunities hadn’t been grasped and exploited, and the unpopular belt tightening not taken place, we would still have been floundering. Second, relations with India have improved significantly. This seemed impossible in 1999 when General Musharraf was still insisting on a resolution of the core issue of Kashmir before anything else. But that position was wisely abandoned step by step in order to try and reap the dividends of peace today. It required courage to be flexible on such an emotional national issue. Sure, there is a long way to go before this peace can be institutionalised, but at least a firm commitment has been made. Third, the press is freer today than it was under the so-called “democratic” regime of Nawaz Sharif. There are no significant witch-hunts or trumped up cases. Indeed, the Musharraf regime has opened up the electronic media to the private sector without too many ifs and buts. This reflects confidence and wisdom, both of which were in short supply in the democratic 1990s. Fourth, General Musharraf held the elections in 2002 as promised. This is much more than can be said of his military predecessors. True, there was pre-poll rigging, but when have we ever held an election in the last fifteen years when credible charges of rigging before, during and after the elections weren’t made? Fifth, General Musharraf has successfully rehabilitated Pakistan in the comity of nations. We are back in the Commonwealth and world leaders continue to beat a path to the presidency. The journey from a pariah nation to a pivotal country has been eventful and productive. It has led to a reduction of our external debt and a restoration of aid and trade facilities. Sixth, the policy of war against terrorism and promoting enlightened moderation is both wise and beneficial. True, we face a violent blowback in the form of desperate sectarianism, suicide bombings and assassination attempts. But it is better to confront and slay these monsters today than to postpone the day of reckoning. The country has paid a very high price for promoting non-state actors to further dubious national security causes. The other side of the coin is equally significant. First, General Musharraf’s attempt to keep the mainstream parties like the PPP out of business continues to extract a heavy price. The MMA is a direct beneficiary in and out of parliament. This has put a spoke in the natural wheel of political development. And it continues to undermine the policies of moderation and war against terrorism advocated by General Musharraf. It is not possible for him to turn the dangerous tide of radical political Islam without support from the mainstream Peoples Party and without getting rid of the MMA through a free and fair election. Second, and this is linked to the first point, he has broken his promise to quit as army chief. He feels insecure because he cannot trust the MMA not to undermine him and he cannot trust the PPP to side with him. In the event, this is a retreat of the process of democratisation that is necessary for the country in the longer term. Third, and this is linked to the second point above, there is no institutional stability in the political edifice Musharraf has erected. If something were to happen to him – and this is not a theoretical issue in view of the assassination attempts on him political power would be up for grabs instead of flowing naturally and constitutionally from parliament and political parties. Pakistan cannot afford to begin experimenting all over again. There is no credible or workable succession mechanism on offer. If Musharraf wants to leave a good legacy, he will have to address this concern. Finally, the bonhomie with the US and the international community cannot be taken for granted. A time will come when democracy and nuclear proliferation will surely return to the forefront of the world agenda again. General Musharraf has so far only postponed the day of reckoning rather than resolved these issues once and for all. But six out of ten is not a bad score. By our standards it is a first division. By international standards, however, it is only a middling second class. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 15 2004, 06:28 AM The purpose of Pakistan will be determined by a number of factors outside Pakistan’s control, but will depend on how Pakistan adapts to these factors. The purpose of the Third World state is to survive. It is only when it comes to the quality of this survival that the Third World’s paucity of intellectual resource becomes apparent It is a sign of the crisis of the state that fewer and fewer people agree on the ‘idea of Pakistan’. No one is willing to recognise and accept what Pakistan has become, not even those who are responsible for this evolution of the state. Those who have Islamised it are not happy because they think Islamisation has not happened to the full. Those who had not agreed with the kind of ideology imposed on the country think that the purpose of Pakistan has not been realised. No one believes that states make mistakes and that, by learning from them, arrive at ‘the idea of the state’. Famous cleric of Lahore Dr Israr Ahmad stated in Khabrain (August 5, 2004) that the idea of Pakistan was dead and that after two and a half years Pakistan would be no more. He said there was no Islamic jihad in Kashmir and there was no such thing as Muslim ummah. He said Pakistan would break up into eight pieces and Balochistan would be the only piece that would be economically viable. He said Pakistan was not made by Punjabis but by Sindhis. In the NWFP, there was Sarhadi Gandhi and the Baloch wanted no part of Pakistan. No state in the world was made by total consensus. Some elements remain opposed to it and will be assimilated into the larger consensus only gradually. Not having an ummah does not harm the nation-state. Jihad was wrong because it was privatised and has come to an end. That will not harm the state either. Why should Pakistan come to an end in 2007? Dr Israr Ahmad speaks like a prophet but may not be proved right like a prophet. He said the Taliban were the army of the Mehdi and he was proved wrong when Muqtada Al Sadr produced his Mehdi army in Iraq. Nothing happened. No one holds him to his flights of fancy. Quoted in Nawa-e-Waqt (August 6, 2004) Justice (Retd) Javid Iqbal said that the objectives of Pakistan had been lost and new generations were given nothing. Periodically army took over the country, created new political elements then destroyed them. The media was gagged and those who gave Pakistan its nuclear programme were persecuted. He said the clergy was not interpreting Islam right and was obsessed with usury while the economic order in modern times had become highly developed. There was a need to convert Pakistan into an Islamic welfare modern state but there was nothing but despair in Pakistan. He said national language Urdu was being ignored in English-medium schools. Dr Javid Iqbal may be put off by misdirection quite common in the Third World. That Pakistan fell into the Third World category is no surprise. Muslims could have converted a much better endowed state into this category. What was the purpose of Pakistan? It is folly to try and make that too clear. The cleric will plump for Khilafat-e-Rashida and the socialist will fall for a welfare state. Dr Javid Iqbal’s idea of the welfare state is passé. Army’s paramountcy cannot be removed without altering the nature of Pakistan’s anti-India nationalism. The purpose of Pakistan will be determined by a number of factors outside Pakistan’s control, but will depend on how Pakistan adapts to these factors. The purpose of the Third World state is to survive. It is only when it comes to the quality of this survival that the Third World’s paucity of intellectual resource becomes apparent. Columnist Hamid Mir wrote in Jang (August 3, 2004) that the attack on [then] finance minister Shaukat Aziz was owned up by Egyptian terrorist organisation Khaled Islambouli Brigade on behalf of Al Qaeda but the latter had not announced that it was indeed connected with the Brigade. Similarly Hafz al-Misri Brigade in Spain had claimed that its attack on the trains in Spain was linked to Al Qaeda but Al Qaeda had not dissociated from the attack. Thus both Khaled Islambouli Brigade and Hafs al-Misri Brigade will be considered parts of Al Qaeda as long as the latter did not publicly dissociate itself from them. In connection with the attempt on the prime minister’s life, the ISI caught Qari Saifullah Akhtar of Harkat Jihad Islami from Dubai. He was an old graduate of Banuri Masjid. He was also close to Al Qaeda. The Egyptian connection links him to Aiman al-Zawahiri who is now in charge. According to daily Pakistan (August 3, 2004) nine Arab princes were to start their hunting season in Pakistan from November and that special areas had been allotted to them by the government so that they can hunt freely without interruption till January next year. Sheikh Hammad was given Bahawalnagar, Shaikh Hamdan Bahawalpur, the Abu Dhabi crown prince Rajanpur, Sheikh Ziyad Jhang, Sheikh Zayd Rahimyar Khan, Prince Naif Layyah. According to the authorities the areas were set aside because they needed the economic uplift that will be provided by the Arab royalty. The rise of Sipah Sahaba was owed to the money that seeped into its seminaries in South Punjab from the Arab guests. Once the money appeared, the seminaries opened like mushrooms. Writing in Jang (August 5, 2004) columnist Nazir Naji stated that Al Qaeda’s biggest asset were the people of Pakistan who hated America to the man. In these circumstances if President Musharraf takes off the uniform it would lead to chaos which will further favour Al Qaeda. If he does not the country will become unstable which again will go in favour of Al Qaeda. This is an insight that the mainstream political parties must take to heart if they think that after Musharraf they will inherit the mantle of power. Ex-ISI chief Hameed Gul stated in Nawa-e-Waqt (August 5, 2004) that America, India and Israel were dead set against the deep-sea port of Gwadar. He said in Balochistan people who asked for their rights were dubbed traitors. He said army should at once be taken out of Balochistan. He feared that RAW and Mossad could benefit from the situation there. If that angle is accepted it must embarrass the anti-American Baloch nationalists who oppose the Gwadar Port as a cat’s paw of American imperialism. Writing in Jang (August 6, 2004) Irshad Haqqani stated that General Musharraf had told editors after 9/11 that the Americans had asked for three things from Pakistan which it was willing to give, but there was a line drawn on how far Pakistan could go in doing what America wanted. Irshad Haqqani, without saying what was too much, complained that Musharraf had gone too far in doing what the Americans wanted. He said it was the public impression that he had gone too far. The American press thinks Musharraf is not sincere and is secretly going against the American policy. Mr Haqqani’s advice will impose on him the obligation of finding ways and means of opposing the American policy in the region. That will remove one pillar of the strategy of staying in power in Pakistan. After him will come a ruler whom we will advise not to go too much against the policy of the United States! And so it goes on. According to Khabrain (August 6, 2004) a former staff officer to ex-NAB chief General Amjad, Hassan Abbas had written a book titled Allah, Army and America. He was currently teaching at Harvard Law School, Boston. He revealed that air chief Hakimullah was involved in the conspiracy that killed General Zia in 1988. This is uncanny but should be read together with a recent statement, also made from the US, by a daughter of General Zia, that some air force officers killed him. One should read this together with reports that Zia’s pilots had acted suspiciously. One of them had asked his mother to pray for him because it was his last flight! Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 16 2004, 03:22 AM KARACHI: Some 1,200 illegal Pakistani immigrants on board two cargo vessels arrived in Karachi today after being deported by the government of Oman. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 17 2004, 04:09 AM pakee.gif KARACHI - The killing of a Chinese hostage during a rescue operation in the Pakistani tribal area of South Waziristan on Thursday once again throws the spotlight on the troubled region and Islamabad's response to growing unrest there. The government's immediate task will be to track down the mastermind of the kidnapping, Abdullah Mehsud, and then to prepare for further major plots being hatched in South Waziristan aimed at destabilizing the administration of President General Pervez Musharraf. In dramatic developments on Thursday, members of the Special Services Group of the Pakistani army dressed themselves as local tribals and stormed the mud house in Chagmalai, South Waziristan, where two Chinese hostages were being held. In the ensuing gunfight, Wang Peng and the five hostage takers died. Another Chinese, Wang Ende, escaped unharmed. The two Chinese engineers had been working on Pakistan's Gomal Zam Dam project for China's state-run Sino Hydro Corp in the restive province when they were abducted last Saturday. The commando action was carried out after Abdullah demanded that the abductors be given a safe passage to Jandollah, in South Waziristan, where Abdullah and other insurgent tribals are hiding. The one-legged Abdullah is a veteran jihadi who fought alongside the Taliban for may years. He was captured by the US in Afghanistan in 2002 and sent to Guantanamo Bay in Cuba, but he was released early this year after the Pentagon said he was no longer a threat to the US and that he had no intelligence value. The Pakistanis rejected Abdullah's demand for the safe passage of the kidnappers, and when their deadline for the release expired, they took the offensive. Earlier in Jandollah, Mehsud tribals played out an ancient ritual. A woman holding the Koran and a sheep was sent to Abdullah to request the release of a Pakistani paramilitary man who was also being held hostage. As per tribal tradition, Abdullah was obliged to give respect to the woman, and he accepted her request. On Thursday, despite the commando action in Chagmalai, in the presence of local and international media, he handed over Mohammed Shaban, who hails from Wehari (Punjab) to Major-General Niaz Khattack. The major had flown into the remote and generally inaccessible area by helicopter with only a few staff. The horizon expands Up to August this year, the fight in the tribal areas was between a few branches of Wazir tribes and the Pakistani military, which was tasked with rooting out foreign militants, including al-Qaeda, from the area. The Mehsud tribes are the most educated segment of Pashtun society and centuries-old rivals of the Wazir. Though both tribes live in the remote high mountains, many Mehsud tribesmen adopted a successful urban life and even joined the Pakistan army and civil service, often reaching high positions, including generals and top bureaucratic posts. These two factors - their rivalry with the Wazir and their association with the establishment - pitched them on the government side when military operations in the tribal areas started early this year. This correspondent has witnessed first-hand how Mehsud tribesmen blocked several arteries to prevent Wazir fighters from escaping the army. However, when Pakistani planes bombed South Waziristan on September 10, killing dozens of local tribals, including women and children, the situation changed and Wazirs and Mehsuds (Panthers and Wolves, as the British military once referred to them) joined hands with the single agenda of getting rid of the "Punjabi army" from their areas. A compact disc depicting the destruction caused by the bombing is widely available in North and South Waziristan, and copies were sent to the media throughout the country. Mehsud tribals also visited major press clubs, including in Karachi, Rawalpindi and Lahore, where they showed their wounded children, and also claimed that Pakistani forces had used special chemical weapons against them. The next battlefield Independent sources, including the local media and tribals in South Waziristan, claim that the army is mobilizing for an extraordinary offensive, and that militants have already taken up positions in the high mountains. The army has already begun to put pressure on villages situated near the mountains where the militants are hiding in an effort to force them to stop fighting or face the music. This strategy has been used in the past, and always results in unnecessary trouble between peaceful villagers (who couldn't stop the militants even if they wanted to) and the military. Similarly, the militants have appealed to allies in mainland Pakistan to increase the pressure on the authorities by launching attacks. In the past, attacks have been carried out on the corps commander's house in Peshawar and on the corps commander's motorcade in Karachi. Al-Qaeda deviates In the past, al-Qaeda and its affiliates in Pakistan were not interested in targeting the country's rulers. Their struggle centered on the US and its interests, which they see as the main force in the occupation of Muslim territories. However, Musharraf's support for the US-led "war on terror" changed this, and they began to form small cells under the name of Jundullah, which randomly struck military targets or at targets that would undermine Musharraf's government. Several of these cells have been caught. Asia Times Online sources claim that "a big mission" has been assigned from South Waziristan that is aimed at shattering the writ of Musharraf in the country. When, where and how are the questions now occupying the full attention of the three premier intelligence agencies in country - the Intelligence Bureau, Military Intelligence and Inter-Services Intelligence. Here is an Article on Abdullah Mahsud : Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 17 2004, 06:51 AM clap.gif ISTANBUL: Turkey has arrested 128 Pakistani nationals for illegal entry in the country. The illegal immigrants were nabbed in Istanbul hiding in a building’s underground floor, correspondent of Geo in Turkey Furqan Hameed reported. Local security officials had arrested them after receiving reports of their presence. The men were entered in Turkey illegally from Iran for proceeding ahead to Greece. The illegal immigrants will be deported after investigations by Turkish authorities. Presently they were under police custody, which was interrogating them and will hand them over to Iranian police afterwards. Pakistan embassy in Istanbul has contacted the detainees and working for sending them back to Pakistan. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 18 2004, 10:11 AM
Interesting letter in Dawn, Atleast now we can also claim our property in Pakistan, not a bad idea. Half of Pakistan will become property of Indians.
Pakistani property in India A property in India belonging to a Pakistani national was declared 'enemy property' and vested in the 'custodian of enemy property' by the government of India in December 1971. A Pakistan citizen cannot be termed enemy subject after the Shimla agreement. But the Indian custodian still continues to take over possession of properties as the relevant notification has not been withdrawn by the government. The government of Pakistan is, therefore, requested to take up the matter with the Indian authorities for restoration of the right of ownership of Pakistani nationals.
Posted by: Viren Oct 19 2004, 07:45 AM By B Raman
Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 19 2004, 01:03 PM
FWIW.. The spin is the yanks worked hard to secure peace when the obvious give-away was..
As the potential for a nuclear war between the two sides began to abate last year, Powell said Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf had called him to find out whether India would respond positively if his Prime Minister made a telephone call to his Indian counterpart.
Commando's khaki got khakhier by the day.. ROTFL.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 24 2004, 03:52 PM Saturday, Oct. 23, 2004 11:37 a.m. EDT Former Navy Secretary John Lehman said Thursday that the Pentagon has pinpointed the location of Osama bin Laden in the Baluchistan Region of Western Pakistan, but is holding back on rounding him up because it could destabilize the government of Pakistani leader Pervez Musharraf. Bin Laden is living in South Waziristan in the Baluchistan Mountains of the Baluchistan Region, Lehman told the San Bernadino Sun, after delivering a keynote speech on terrorism at Pitzer College in Claremont, Calif. "There is an American presence in the area, but we can't just send in troops," he told the Sun. "If we did, we could have another Vietnam, and the United States cannot afford that right now." Lehman said that because Pakistan's Baluchistan Region is "filled with Taliban and al-Qaida members" who do not recognize the legitimacy of President Musharraf, the U.S. military is holding back. "Look," he explained, "Musharraf already has had three assassination attempts on his life. He is trying to comply, but he is surrounded by people who do not agree with him. This is not like Afghanistan, where there was no compliance, and we had to go in." "We'll get [bin Laden] eventually," he added. "Just not now." Contacted by the Sun, Department of Defense spokeswoman Capt. Ronnie Merritt declined to comment on Lehman's remarks, except to say that he normally didn't speak about these issues, and she was surprised he had. Lehman served on the Sept. 11 Commission investigating bin Laden's attacks on the U.S.
Posted by: rajesh_g Oct 25 2004, 07:06 PM Several things about this column and the scenario it deals with : 1. atleast now we are openly considering invading that excuse of a nation 2. in case something like this plays out we will have as this journalist has some dorks jumping up and down about how this is bad for india and what not. Their anti-americanism will come in the way of realistically considering the options. 3. why the heck do we need to occupy TSP ? Why cant we consider going in, boom-boom and get out.. I m sure pakhtoons, balochs and sindhis would loooove to have their own country.. Flush.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 26 2004, 02:28 PM SOUTH WAZIRISTAN: Death toll due to falling of mortar shells at jirga of Mehsud tribes in Shaikh Ziarat, an area of Spinkar Oraghzai South Waziristan on Tuesday rose to 15 while seven people were also wounded. Eye witnesses said security personnel and tribal elders were holding Jirga when suddenly three mortar shells fell upon them. Sources said mortar shells hit the jirga participants when security forces artillery was also bombing the area from Scouts Camp Jendola. Haji Rehmat, Malik Syed Zaman, Sard Aalam, Khan Nazar Khel, Sher Zaman, Ali Sawrar, Zardullah, Mehmood Khan, Aasi Khan, Sher Allah, Ishaq Khan and Sakhi Dad Khan were also among the dead, while three slain could not be identified. Ahmed Shah, Aalmgir, Amirullah, Haji Muarif, Taous Khan, Murad and another were among the critically wounded persons. Added Later :
* Search for Abdullah ends without success * 5 militants injured in clash * Rockets fired at Wana Scouts camp
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Oct 26 2004, 07:35 PM
Looks like Paki Army work. They will gain by creating confusion.
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 27 2004, 03:50 AM
Posting in Full as Dawn Magazine Section does not have an Archive The crux of Pakistan's foreign policy problems is the military's domination over civil society. The troubled civil-military relationship has resulted in a fragile economy and an unhappy federation,' says Sardar Assef Ahmed Ali. Pakistan has been a prisoner of military elite's bonapartist ambitions, says Sardar Assef Ahmed Ali, a former foreign minister of Pakistan (1993-96) in Benazir Bhutto's second tenure as the prime minister. They have made Pakistan available for periodic tactical gains by the US, rather than building a long-term relationship with the West, he adds. In an exclusive interview with Dawn Magazine, Sardar Assef Ahmed Ali discussed the various phases of foreign policy that different Pakistani leaders adopted over the period of half a century. The following are the excerpts: Q. How do you see the foreign policy pursued by Pakistan in the last five decades? What major mistakes were committed by those in power in various periods? A. I shall briefly try to answer it. The core issue of the country's foreign policy rests on two factors: the Indo-Pak relations, particularly with regard to the Kashmir dispute; and the civil-military relationship within Pakistan. The dispute with India forced Pakistan to look towards the West for support and for its national security. At a very early point after the death of the Quaid-i-Azam, Pakistan took a strategic decision to seek an alliance with the West. This relationship was a reactive one because of Indian proximity to the Soviet Union, even though India ostensibly professed non-alignment. The Indo-Soviet relationship enabled Indian armed forces and its economy to have hardware and economic support. In my view, Pakistan at the time had no other option. During president Ayub Khan's military rule of one decade the strategic partnership with the West was cemented through SEATO and CENTO. Pakistan became a key Western ally in the Cold War against the communist bloc. Ayub Khan convinced the US administration of the centrality of Pakistan's strategic position. As a result, massive military and economic aid flowed in, which strengthened Pakistan's defence and its economy. Pakistan was seen to be the fortress of US vested interests in South Asia and the Far East. He was the first Pakistani leader who was seen as a reliable western ally against its war on communism. Now coming to the mistakes. It was a monumental blunder on Ayub Khan's part to go to war against India in 1965, hoping vainly for the solution to the Kashmir dispute. This was a deeply flawed war started by Pakistan on faulty assumptions which were: (a) US arms supply would continue during the war; (b) India would not cross the international border. The futility of this war is obvious and the damage it did to Pakistan as a western ally was massive. Suddenly it was realized in the West that Ayub Khan was not pursuing an anti-communist western agenda, but was working for his own causes - Kashmir being one of them. Their military support to Pakistan was not intended to be used against India. As a result, not only did Ayub Khan lose out on his credentials as a western ally, but Pakistan also suffered a lot. Ayub Khan then had to face a humiliating diplomatic failure at Tashkent. The West never really trusted Pakistan after that as a strategic partner. The second blunder, again made by a military ruler – Yahya Khan - was to allow Pakistan to drift into a civil war, which resulted in the 1971 war. In this war several disastrous assumptions played out its follies: (a) China would bring its forces on Indian borders; (b) Yahya opened the western front to release the pressure in East Pakistan; © US intervention through the pacific fleet would prevent India from attacking East Pakistan. None of these things happened. Q. But you can't say that it's a story of defeats and failures all along. A. Yes. I'll also address that point. When Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was in power, there were some remarkable successes in the field of foreign policy. For example, it was in that period that the Shimla Accord was signed. It was also during his tenure that Pakistan became an important member of the non-aligned world. And because of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, the oil embargo and the OIC summit in Lahore, Pakistan became one of the principal players in the Muslim and the non-aligned world. That was also the start of Pakistan's ambitious nuclear programme in reply to India's nuclear test at Pokhran in 1974. But this five-year golden period of Pakistan's foreign policy came to an end with the removal of Bhutto from power by Gen Ziaul Haq. Q. As far as foreign policy is concerned, how was Gen Zia's period different from that of Ayub Khan's? A. Gen Zia was a military ruler seeking western legitimacy so that under his leadership Pakistan could play a role in world affairs. This opportunity to Pakistan came with the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Suddenly, Pakistan was at the centrestage of the great game played during the Cold War. And opportunity had presented itself to the US to strike a mortal blow at the evil empire of communism and avenge the defeat in Vietnam. Without committing a single soldier, the US administration conducted a 10-year covert war to defeat the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. By 1988, it had become pretty clear that the Soviets had exhausted themselves in Afghanistan. The Geneva Accord of 1988 gave the Soviets an exit strategy out of Afghanistan, but nothing to Pakistan. Pakistan had hosted 3.2 million Afghan refugees, made its ISI available to conduct the covert war and put all its resources to the service of Jihad. In the process, Pakistan was given some crumbs for this massive involvement. These crumbs amounted to $3.2 billion for five years. Undoubtedly, the military assistance strengthened Pakistan's defence capability. But in terms of economy it made very little difference. Considering that Pakistan was the only available country to fight the free world's covert war, the trade off for Pakistan was pathetic. However, perhaps the only gain for Pakistan was that the Reagan administration looked the other way when Pakistan developed its nuclear programme. As a result, Pakistan was able to complete the nuclear enrichment cycle and produce substantial quantities of bomb grade uranium 235. This significant development nullified India's nuclear advantage. Although India had already tested a crude nuclear device, both countries pursued a policy of nuclear ambiguity. In the pursuit of the Afghan war, Gen Zia had obtained from the US a carte blanche for the supply of weapons and money exclusively to the Afghan Mujahideen. Gen Zia made many mistakes as far as the Afghan policy goes. For example: (1) His total reliance on right wing conservative Islamist parties, which mostly pursued the Saudi brand of Wahabi Islam, was a blunder. Presumably, he did so because of his own denominational inclination and the Saudi money that was flowing in. (2) Massive support to Ahmed Shah Masood and Professor Burhanuddin Rabbani and their allies. Masood and Rabbani represented only 18 per cent of the Afghan population, which meant that the Tajik nationality concentrated largely in the north-eastern regions of Panjsher and Badakhshan. (3) His regime chose Engr Hekmatyar as the principal Pukhtoon commander for Afghanistan. He, too, was lavished with massive arms and money assistance. Hekmatyar, as was proved later, was a rigid Wahabi fundamentalist and was not recognized in the heartland of the Pukhtoon tribal society.(4) There was fear in the ISI, generated no doubt by Gen Hameed Gul, that a popular Pukhtoon leader amongst the Mujahideen would one day raise the issue of Pukhtoonistan. (5) Pakistan refused to support any moderate parties in the Pukhtoon or other areas which were represented by the monarchists. The thinking was that they would follow Zahir Sha's anti-Pakistan policy. (6) Finally, all manners of militant Jihadis and even criminals from the Muslim world were invited, and indeed welcomed, to fight the Afghan Jihad with total support from the US. The struggle against the Soviet occupation was actually called Jihad by Congressmen Charlie Wilson. The other failures of Pakistan's Afghan policy were the mishandling of the Jalalabad Accord, the Peshawar Accord and the Islamabad Accord between the warring Mujahideen factions. Q. What about the policy pursued by Mian Nawaz Sharif on the Afghanistan issue? A. In fact, everybody played their role in adding to the blunders. It was in 1991, when Mian Nawaz Sharif appointed an inexperienced person - Gen Javed Nasir - as director-general of the powerful ISI. The new person didn't have a clue to the complexities of the Afghan situation. He simply pursued Gen Hameed Gul's bonapartist approach to Afghanistan, which had culminated in the fiasco of Jalalabad. As a result of Pakistan's mismanagement of inter-Afghan rivalries, a civil war was the obvious outcome. The problem in handling the Afghan policy was that it remained in military hands and was practically run by military minds. A deep political situation in Afghanistan was sought to be resolved not through political but by military means. The outcome of importing Jihadis into Pakistan and allowing them to set up shops here had serious consequences for Pakistan. The imported local Jihadis were considered a strategic asset by Pakistan's military thinkers. After 1988, they were exported to occupied Jammu and Kashmir. This process continued into the '90s till all manner of Jihadi organizations emerged in Pakistan and started exercising the national security veto on Pakistan's foreign policy. Thousands of young men were recruited from all over Pakistan and helped to fight Jihad in the occupied Kashmir. This destabilized Pakistan's internal security and brought the Jihadi organizations to the centre stage of Pakistan. The attitude of the Pakistani establishment was totally opportunistic, because it had privatized and outsourced Jihad. While the state refused to declare Jihad, it encouraged its children to fight in Kashmir. This had international implications apart from the domestic fallout. In the Kashmir case we caused great harm to ourselves by opening Kashmir to non-Kashmiri Jihadis. This provided India with an opportunity to build a case that Pakistan was promoting and abetting terrorism. If the Kashmiris alone had conducted Jihad under the UN Charter, they were within their rights to do so and no country was in a position to raise any objection. The next grave blunder came in 1999 as the Kargil fiasco. Presumably Gen Musharraf was trying to play nuclear brinkmanship. He was hoping that with the capture of strategic heights in that sector he would be able to cut off the Indian supply line to Ladakh and Leh and the world would come rushing to New Delhi and Islamabad for a mediated settlement of the Kashmir dispute because of the fear of a nuclear war. Kargil came at a time when prime minister Vajpayee had opened peace process with Pakistan through the Lahore Declaration. This came as a great shock to India and the rest of the world. India was able to strengthen its case before the world that Pakistan was really not interested in peace but wanted military conquest. Pakistan's case was very badly damaged. The Kargil crisis had resulted finally in the military takeover by Gen Musharraf. Isolated all over the world, Gen Musharraf was seeking international legitimacy, which presented itself after America's post 9/11 war on terrorism. Gen Musharraf is pursuing this war with great commitment, which includes Pakistan's armed forces' deployment in Fata and other regions. Only history would judge whether he was right and whether Pakistan internally and externally was offered a commensurate quid pro quo. This analysis illustrates the fact that Pakistan has been a prisoner of military elite's bonapartist ambitions. They have sought an imposed internal stability of a prisoner of war camp. They did not build any long-term strategic relationship with the West, but made Pakistan available for periodic tactical gains by the US. Every single military ruler was supported by Washington and every one of them sought legitimacy not from the people of Pakistan, but from the US administration. That's the crux of Pakistan's foreign policy problems, that is, the military elites' domination over civil society. Progressively, internal and economic security has been sacrificed in the name of national security. This troubled civil-military relationship has resulted in a fragile economy, an unhappy federation, demoralized society, compromised institutions and a fragmented polity. If Pakistan wishes for a better tomorrow, its civil society will have to seek an identity in its roots and its armed forces must come under absolute civil control. Short of this, Pakistan's future is bleak. Cheers
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 28 2004, 10:42 AM pakee.gif ISLAMAWORST : A heavy explosion ripped through a five star hotel here, killing one and injuring scores. Amongst the injured many are foreigners who were staying in the hotel. According to reliable sources, the blast, which occurred in the hotel’s lobby, was so severe that window glasses of the hotel were smashed and it was heard in distant areas of the city. The injured have been rushed to hospitals for emergency medical treatment. Federal Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Sherpao and other high officials reached the blast site immediately after it went off. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 28 2004, 03:09 PM
Story for the Abdul Bin Lotas :
LAHORE - Federal Minister for Food and Agriculture Sikander Hayat Bosan met a delegation of Kissan Board here Thursday. High officials of PASSCO and Punjab Seed Corporation were also present at the occasion. Talking to the delegation, the Federal Minister said that Pakistan has attained self-sufficiency in wheat production. pakee.gif
The Reality :
Karachi (PPI) – MV Desert Hawk and MV Atlanta carrying 93,208 MT wheat imported by Trading Corporation of Pakistan (TCP) are under discharge and 54,448 MT was discharged upto 08:00 hours on October 26, 2004.
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Posted by: Peregrine Oct 29 2004, 05:04 AM clap.gif WASHINGTON: Pointing out that many religious parties in Pakistan have links to extremists in Afghanistan and Kashmir, chairman of the US Foreign Relations Committee Richard Lugar has said a crackdown on extremism is necessary to facilitate the Indo-Pak peace process. "Many of the religious parties in Pakistan have links to extremists who fought in Afghanistan and Kashmir. A crackdown on extremism in Pakistan is necessary to help prevent future terrorists attacks as well as to facilitate India-Pakistan peace," Senator Lugar said. "We support the Pakistan government's efforts to root out terrorism and we are committed to Pakistan's long-term development and prosperity," he said. US Ambassador-designate to Pakistan Ryan Crocker told his Senate confirmation hearing that "Indo-Pakistani reconciliation is key to regional stability and international security." Observing that leaders of India and Pakistan demonstrated far-sighted statesmanship in initiating the composite dialogue this year and continued it through the meeting of President Pervez Musharraf and Prime Minister Manmohan Singh in New York, he said "We stand ready to assist them in the process in whatever ways both would find useful." On Pakistan, he said, "Our growing partnership gives us an opportunity to support Pakistan's efforts to become a modern democratic state and a moderate voice in the Islamic world, the vision articulated by President Musharraf himself." "Our revived economic development programme for Pakistan is a key part of the strategy and aims to promote sustainable growth and improved living standards," Lugar said. The Ambassador-designate said that if he was confirmed, he will place "particular emphasis on our education programmes, where we are working with the Pakistani government to improve the quality and the affordability of Pakistan's public schools so that parents of limited means have an alternative to narrow, religiously oriented education." Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 29 2004, 05:40 AM ISLAMABAD: Scuffles and allegations marred Thursday’s Senate proceedings after opposition and treasury members clashed over the two-offices bill and almost came to blows. user posted image LOTASTAANI LAW MINISTER WITH RAISED ARMS (RIGHT ARM-HAND HAS BEEN FORCED DOWN BY FELLOW MEMBER) THREATENING AND ABUSING Law Minister Wasi Zafar lost his temper after opposition members declared him a lota (turncoat). He used abusive language against the opposition, who paid him back in the same coin. The minister was trying to defend the passage of the bill allowing President General Pervez Musharraf to hold two offices. The opposition demanded that the bill be withdrawn. Instead of controlling his temper, the minister challenged the opposition members to a fight. The minister and opposition members Raza Rabbani, Safdar Abbasi and Enver Beg advanced towards each other menacingly but before they could begin to wrestle near the chair of Leader of the House Wasim Sajjad, several other senators separated them. However, the minister and senators managed to get in a few shoves and several curses. While trying to prevent the fight, opposition member Maulana Rahat Hussain fell victim to the minister’s anger. The law minister abused him sarcastically and Mr Hussain replied in the same manner. Senate Chairman Mohammadmian Soomro expunged all the objectionable words from the record. Wisely acting Senators Mushahid Hussain Sayed, Tariq Azeem, Farhatullah Babar, Akbar Khawaja, Sanaullah Baloch and Dr Shahzad Wasim managed to calm their infuriated colleagues. The chairman adjourned proceedings for half-an-hour. Later, the house rejected a motion by the opposition demanding that the bill be sent to the house committee concerned for further discussion. Mr Sajjad said there was no need for this because the senators were discussing it on the house floor. He said the bill was passed by the National Assembly and senators must not discuss the conduct of the lower house of parliament. He added Mr Musharraf was elected in a referendum and parliament had given him a vote of confidence. Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal leader Professor Sajid Mir said the notion that the uniform was necessary for Pakistan was humiliating to the 140 million citizens and parliament. The passage of the bill negated the general’s claim that the National Security Council was enough to protect democracy, he said. “If the uniform is so important to fight a war against terrorism, Mr Musharraf should convince President Bush to wear a uniform,” he said. Jamhoori Watan Party leader Amanullah Kunrani said that a dismissed general had been ruling the country for the last five years. clap.gif The debate will resume today (Friday). Cheers
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 29 2004, 03:24 PM ISLAMAWORST : Initial investigation of the blast occurred yesterday in a hotel here stated that the explosive device was hidden inside a pot in the lobby of hotel. According to an officer of the investigating team, hotel management was receiving threats since last few days. Investigating team also added that initial proofs indicated that the blast could not happened due to a short circuit. Suspicions rose about the short-circuiting argument, as the short circuit incident would have certainly caused a power breakdown. liar.gif The evidences gathered by the investigation team in the incident counter short circuit argument as the cause of the blast. pakee.gif After blast in the hotel all foreigners had started leaving the hotel by late night to stay to some other place. Following the blast security has been porked up in other hotels and guest houses in the capital. Added Later :
WASHINGTON: The US State Department said on Friday it believed a blast at an Islamaworst hotel was probably caused by a bomb, differing from the Pakistani view that it appeared to be the result of an electrical fault. "Our information, and the information we shared with the American community, was that it was probably an improvised explosive device, a bomb of some kind," State Department spokesman Richard Boucher told reporters.
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Posted by: Peregrine Oct 31 2004, 08:13 AM Pakistan’s 13th Chief of Army Staff is taking Pak Army where the Army has never gone before; both literally and ideologically. Not only that, President-General Musharraf is daring to say things that no general before him dared saying. It has been 39 years since General Muhammad Ayub Khan fought his lonely crusade. On 6 September 1965, Ambassador Walter McConaughy sent a ‘secret telegram’ to the US department of state. The telegram read: "I met one hour this morning with Pres Ayub and Fornmin Bhutto......... I pointed to evidently clear Pak use of US Military equipment in Kashmir. Pres asked how could he deny those people arms. I pointed out bluntly that US arms made available against communist aggression not for local wars (The American Papers, pp. 17-18)." President Lyndon Johnson cut off all military supplies to Ayub Khan. Pakistan stood isolated in the international community, and the field Marshall’s ‘decade of achievements’ went down the drain. Army has been engaged in lonely jihads too long. Pakistan stood isolated far too many times in our rather short chequered history. Our political maulanas continue to employ jihad as their rallying cry. First jihad, against all moderate Pakistanis. Second jihad, against India. Third jihad, against America. And, fourth jihad against Israel. The more jihads to fight the better the recruitment. Our religious right supported General Zia’s uniform because his uniform stood for jihad. Pakistan has been drifting into extremism for too long. The new uniform, it appears, stands for jihad no more (the same maulanas are therefore against the same uniform). Armies, however, do need enemies. So does Pak army. India as an ‘enemy’ has done us no good. India as a ‘trading partner’ will do us good. How about picking an ‘enemy’ that will create a commonality of interest between Pakistan and the world around us? Pentagon has picked ‘terrorism’. ‘Terrorism’ as an ‘enemy’ will align us not only with the U.S. but all the ‘fighters of terrorism’ in the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Australia as well. Can the patriarch General deliver us the best of both worlds; choke off domestic extremism and get even more closely aligned with the ‘league of nations’? Not too long ago our patriarch General had declared: "I have been saying that the greatest danger to our nation is not external; it is internal and comes from religious and sectarian extremists..." The sure thing common between our patriarch General and PPP is ideology. PPP must acknowledge that armies are making a comeback the world over. Bush needs his army and Pakistan needs hers. Not only does Pakistan need her army-with the US Army bogged down in Iraq-the ‘fighters of terrorism’ also need our army. PPP was co-opted earlier but the co-option failed may be because PPP wanted more political space than the military high command was willing to offer. The US Department of State now has no problem with a uniformed president neither does the Rt Hon Donald McKinnon of the Commonwealth Secretariat. Our patriarch General would now be in a position to give more political space to civilian politicians (Zardari bail, for instance, is pending in just one more case). Operation Prakam has made India wiser albeit at a very steep cost. India has learned that Corporate India does not want New Delhi to go to war with anyone. New Delhi learned that Corporate America does not want war in the sub-continent. New Delhi also learned that the US Department of State does not see a war in the sub-continent as being in America’s strategic interest. Time is on India’s side. Economic disparity between India and Pakistan is going to be much greater a few years down the road than it is today. India’s military superiority is going to be much greater a few years down the road than it is today. Time to strike a deal is now. india.gif There are two things going for us: First, America’s dependence on us in her ‘war on terrorism’. Second, corporate India’s pressure on New Delhi to listen to the US Department of State and resolve outstanding issues with Pakistan. India, as grows her economy, can go on increasing her defence allocation without much impact on her rate of growth. As we allocate more and more of our resources to defence the more vulnerable becomes our economy to both external as well internal shocks. Our negotiating position, with the passage of time, is bound to weaken not strengthen. india.gif If we are unable to manage our conflict with India then the forecast is that "continued conflict with India, domestic turmoil due to heightened inter-provincial disputes and lack of economic and social development, would make Pakistan’s internal situation very volatile and unstable by 2010 (strategic foresight group’s "cost of conflict between India and Pakistan")." thumbup.gif The next half of the current decade is more than crucial. President-General Musharraf is going where no Pakistani Head of State has gone before. Ten presidents and twenty prime ministers before him, and General Musharraf dared saying what no one dared saying before him: Let us look for "options" other than plebiscite and go "beyond stated positions". If Musharraf can deliver peace he will be the best thing ever happened to this country of ours. We are having a dialogue with India what we need even more is to have a dialogue within. Pakistan cannot do without the patriarch General. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Oct 31 2004, 08:34 AM
BEIJING (Agencies) – President Hu Jintao called on Islamabad to step up its protection of Chinese nationals as a company in charge of a dam project withdrew all staff. Hu’s message comes after two Chinese engineers working on the hydroelectric dam project in Pakistan were kidnapped this month and one was killed during a rescue operation two weeks ago. In a meeting with the Speaker of National Assembly, Ch Amir Hussain, Hu said the Chinese government was still concerned about the safety of some 3,000 Chinese workers and engineers. ‘The Chinese government remains very worried about its citizens in Pakistan,’ Hu was quoted as saying by Xinhua news agency.
Xinhua also reported that the Chinese company in charge of the Gomal Zam hydroelectric dam project near the South Waziristan tribal region in Pakistan had withdrawn all its staff. However, it did not name the company. Repeated calls to the Sinohydro Corp, where the two kidnapped engineers worked, went unanswered Saturday. Previous reports had said Chinese companies would not pull out of Pakistan as a result of the abductions and killing.
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Posted by: Peregrine Oct 31 2004, 08:49 AM It appears that Kashmir issue is in its final stages of settlement. In the prolonged struggle right from 1947, Pakistan and Kashmiris have lost much more than India. For the past one year, a complete détente has been prevailing on both sides of LoC, of course with courtesy of the US. President Musharraf in his recent enlightened statement on this issue has pointed out seven zones of Kashmir, two in Azad Kashmir and five in held Kashmir. His seven-zone theory is based on geopolitical and religious realities of the area. The President has asked for an open debate on the issue. In the present era, status quo regarding historical entities is very hard to change. Palestine and Cyprus are the examples. Protracted table talks with India to change the present status of Kashmir are unlikely to bear fruit. We should accept realities and avoid emotionalism since requirements of this age are different than what they were a couple of decades ago. The world is striving hard for economic progress and gains that could only be possible in a peaceful atmosphere. We are already lagging behind economically and cannot afford to indulge in cold or active war with India. Our progress primarily lies in bilateral trade with India before the wrath of WTO mercilessly falls on us. So countrymen, let us take a bold decision in the larger interest of the country as well as Kashmiris. –DR ZAINAB RIZVI, Lahore, October 29. thumbup.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 1 2004, 11:25 AM
BY IQTIDAR GILANI LAHORE - The continuous devaluation of Pakistani currency has forced the government to introduce notes in bigger denominations and discard the small ones with the passage of time, sources in the State Bank of Pakistan told The Nation on Friday. Sources confided that introduction of currency notes in Rs 5,000 and Rs 20 denominations was prompted due to the devaluation in Pak currency that further caused elimination of Rs 5 note. The new currency notes in Rs 5,000 and Rs 20 denominations will be introduced in the market in around two to three year’s time while Rs 5 note will be fizzled out in the beginning of the coming year.
Posted by: Viren Nov 2 2004, 07:13 AM
A Marines officer spat chewing tobacco in the direction of Pakistan laugh.gif . "We all know al-Qa'ida and the Taliban are in there," he said. "Maybe that's where Bin Laden is hiding. We would love to go in there, track them down, and end the war here and now. But for political reasons we can't."
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 2 2004, 12:33 PM LA WHORE: Pakistani rulers are worse than the Israeli prime minister, who despite his hatred for Islam had allowed President Yasser Arafat to leave Palestine for treatment, but Pakistani rulers did not allow Nawaz Sharif, the former prime minister of Pakistan, and his family to attend the funeral of Mian Sharif, Muhammad Rafiq Tarar, the former president of Pakistan, has said. Talking to reporters after ghaibana funeral prayers of Mian Sharif at Data Darbar Mosque on Monday, Mr Tarar said stopping the Sharif family from returning with the body of Mian Sharif was shameful. The former president said there was no rule of law in the country. staff report Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Harshavardhan Nov 2 2004, 06:43 PM
Hi fellows, A throwback to Mme Jalebi pic wink.gif (Inline image, but small + thumbnailed) Indigenously Developed Cereal to Pave Way for American Arms Sales By NSN Chief Fiber Analyst Detroit Desi Srivaman News Service Battle Creek, MI, November 01 (NSN): In what aims to be yet another coup, Pakistan Presidentissimo Pervez 'Pappy' Musharraf heroically unveiled today during a press conference and banquet gala attended by Karachi's movers-o-shakers, Pakistan's newest super-weapon of its diplomatic arsenal: by way of a television commercial aired live on PTV. The commercial starts off by panning over fields gloriously and solidly green as the Ummah, then a rainbow suddenly flows down from the Heavens like the breath of the Almighty Himself, while the lilting strings and falsetto crooning of world-famous super-hit Pakistani 'dirty-south(-asian)' gangsta rapping group 'Strings' latest patriotic number floats through the air in like the sweet breath of a Pomegranate-faced cherub. The camera suddenly cuts to the bottom of the rainbow flow, where a resplendent F-16 fighter jet literally glows in all its masculine beauty. A stunningly dressed Musharraf then swiftly pirouettes into flame, showing his kammandu-like athleticism while sporting a dazzlingly lush and Islamically-gracious little Paki-Irish Armani number. The soundtrack, reaching crescendo, prompts Great Leader into doing a jig and wiggling his TFTA figure suggestively at the lens, no doubt sending the enrapt legions of young shere-e-Pakistanis into heart palpitations, while he titters Celticly, "Just look at my Mush-e-mallows! Red Fighting Falcons, Aqua Pattons, Blue Sabres, Orange Hueys, Yellow M-16s, Purple Stingers! Find an Osama-mellow and claim a prize! Buy a box today! "We are wery much wanting to be getting pleej your Yank-e-Arms™!" The General concludes musically, vogueing as the commercial fades to black. When the screen lifted, the General then stepped up to the podium and addressed the stunned masses: "With this commercial, and with the five billion rupees budget we have committed to Pakistan Cereal Factory Board (PCFB) for manufacturing the cereal we indigenously commissioned our Chinese allies to design," Musharraf paused dramatically, "We will win the hearts and minds of every Amreekan!" The crowd burst into a spontaneous roar of applause and ovation. "Not only will our cereal-e-success restore our Dignity and Honour," General said after the cheers died down somewhat eight minutes later, "but our exports-e-cereal will surge in our favour the trade deficit we have with America 400%!" Musharraf ended his brilliant oratory with the vow that Yank-e-Arms™ cereal will single-handedly break the Yindu-Zionist control over Congress, which has to date prevented the American public's will to allow unrestricted arms sales to America's number one bestest ally in the War on Terrorism. Above: The indigenous Yank-e-Arms cereal box Amid the twenty-minute long thunderous applause in the packed Clifton beachfront hall, this reporter noticed a midlevel agriculture civil servant timidly raising his hand and wondering outloud whether the good General sahib knows that such a massive export outflow of grainstuffs used to make Y-e-A™ cereal would cause crippling starvation in the country. The fellow then being swiftly silenced by a unnervingly-accurate stream of half-masticated Jalebi juice spat by a witheringly furious-looking Mme. Mazari, sitting plumply several feet away. "Well, I suppose we could all simply just eat grass once again...", this reporter heard the abashed bureaucrat dejectedly mumble. As this reporter walked away the madly cheering crowd, I heard them all sing the catchy slogan over and over, the melody and volume fading with distance: "Our Need of Yank-e-Arms: They're Pakishly Fictitious!" -------==--==--==-------
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 3 2004, 01:57 PM
Cross Posted on the Energy Thread Lotastaan gets on the LNG Bandwagon KARACHI (APP) - Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC) was considering the offer to import 350 to 500 million cubic feet (mmcf) per day of Liquified Natural Gas (LNG) from Qatar or Iran to meet rising domestic demand. This was stated by the managing director SSGC Munawar Baseer Ahmed here Wednesday. He said that three to four international firms including Shell and Asia Petroleum have approached the company as well as Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources and offered to supply LNG from Iran or Qatar. “We have asked them to lower their price from $ 3.50 to $ 2.50 per million cubic feet (MMCF) per day. Our average buying price is about 2.20 mmcf per day in the country”, Baseer said and hoped that they will come back with the new price structure. He said that LNG project will be faster in implementation as it will not involve pipeline installation, any territorial issue or third party interest which is related to Pak-Iran gas pipeline or Turkmenistan. The gas will be converted into LNG at the fields in Qatar or Iran and will be gasified in Pakistan, he added. He said that the demand for gas was rising rapidly and SSGC will need 1 billion cubic feet per day in next three years to cater to this demand. Currently SSGC was supplying 750 mmcf to its consumers, he added. He said that by 2010, there will be a significant shortage of gas in the country if not imported at a large scale. The domestic demand was rising at a rate of 6 per cent while CNG station requirements growing at 10 to 12 per cent per annum. SSGC has to supply gas to DHA desalination plant, Fauji Fertilizer plant at Bin Qasim, Tapal Energy, textile city, Al-Tuwairqi steel mills. To a question, he said that three pipeline projects were still under negotiations and they will take at least five years from the date of finalisation of agreement while LNG project will take two to three years for completion. He pointed out that SSGC consultants and the Ministry of Petroleum and Natural Resources were preparing two presentation on these three projects for the Prime Minister. These presentation will include cost/ benefit analysis, value/benefit analysis, geo-political and security issues, he added. He said that gas through Iran gas pipeline project will cost $ 2 mmcf per day, while Turkmenistan gas pipeline and Qatar Gas pipeline to cost below $ 2 mmcf per day. Baseer said that till such time when one of these pipeline projects is picked for implementation, LNG project is feasible and practical to meet immediate demand provided the gas is available at 2.50 mmcf per day. The only significance of this Article is that Lotastaanis have realized that a Naturla Gas Pipe Line through Balochistan and NWFP will keep getting “Blown-Up” at regular intervals. As such they are considering getting on the LNG Bandwagon. Meantime All Gas Units as given by the Lotastaani “Munawar Baseer Ahmed” prove that he is “Innocent of Gas Units”. ROTFL.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 3 2004, 02:32 PM
A Lotastaani giving “SANE” Advice to Lotastaani PM Aziz – Riff Raff’s Pittu – but can Riff Raff’s Pittu afford to take it? MR Aziz told a press conference in Kathmandu that Islamabad was ready to extend all possible help to Nepal in its fight against the terrorists. The government has to realise that Pakistan is itself a target of terrorist attacks and is finding it hard to cope with the phenomenon. It is difficult to imagine how, under the circumstances, it can extend help to Nepal’s fight against the Maoist guerillas who have established a considerable hold over much of the countryside. By joining the anti-terrorist alliance at the behest of Washington, Islamabad has already earned the enmity of a number of anti-US militant groups, mostly pro-Islamic. Its major cities continue to be targeted by terrorists who have killed hundreds of innocent people including a number of foreigners which has given birth to a widespread sense of insecurity and discouraged investment. The pursuit of the Al-Qaeda sympathizers in the tribal areas has led the army to a quagmire. While civilian and military casualties continue to mount there is still no light at the end of the tunnel. By getting involved in Nepal’s internal affairs, Pakistan could invite the ire of yet another militant group, or rather an entire set of militant groups of Marxist orientation, which it can ill afford. Mr Aziz has not explained what is implied by “extending all possible help.” Pakistan has imparted military training to personnel from a number of friendly countries and may do so in the case of Nepal also. But making the offer pointedly in the context of the ongoing insurgency will have political implications that cannot be ignored. No one in his senses will support the involvement of Pakistan army in Nepal’s insurgency after what happened to the Indian troops sent to Sri Lanka to quell the Tamil Tigers. It would also be instructive to learn from the immense harm done to Pakistan when security agencies undertook to play a role in Afghanistan’s internal politics. It is for the Nepalese government to deal with the insurgency which, like the one initiated by the Tamil Tigers has clear political connotations. Pakistan must avoid burning its fingers. It might quietly provide any intelligence cooperation if that is required, though unlikely, but anything further does not make sense. One fully supports Mr Aziz’s drive to expand economic cooperation, enhance trade and make full use of investment opportunities between the two countries which are also SAARC members. Pakistan can also offer educational facilities to Nepali students, particularly in fields like medicine, engineering and administration. Pakistan can in turn learn from Nepal how to improve its tourism industry. These are the spheres where both Pakistan and Sri Lanka stand to gain from collaboration. Enhanced economic and social relations would better promote bilateral goodwill rather than chasing after wills o’ the wisp. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 3 2004, 08:58 PM What I dont understand is if he is moving openly and indian businessmen are going there directly why doesnt mumbai police just take him out ? Or give some logistical support to chhota rajan and he can do the job ? mad.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 4 2004, 09:55 AM pakee.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 4 2004, 09:59 AM (Updated at 1530 PST) WANA: A vehicle of the security forces convoy was struck against a landmine in Silwashti area of South Waziristan resulting in death of six security men while ten others were injured.
Posted by: Kumar Nov 4 2004, 07:04 PM
I have lately heard lots of people expressing concerns over possibility of US delivering F16s to Pakistan. Many people think that US may use delivery of F16s to Pakistan as a bargaining chip against India. I believe if we Indian let F16s become a bargaining chip then it is our own fault. Here is why. Pakistan is an unstable country. Also, this unstable country has Al Queda sympathizers in high places in military apparatus. So, let us assume that US delivers latest F16s to Pakistan. Then tomorrow Al Queda overthrows Musharraf regime. Now all of a sudden, Al Queda has nukes and not only those F16s but do not forget No Dongs. Given the history of Pakistan, military coup against any regime is a reality. Given the fact that so many powerful people in Pakistani military are Al Queda supporters, it is a possibility that Al Queda may take control of Pakistan one day. If that were to happen those F16s will be just as likely to be used against US targets as against Indian targets. So, US has to be extremely stupid to deliver F16s to Pakistan. But unfortunately, that is also a reality – stupidity on part of US.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 4 2004, 08:58 PM
First, we should know what is Al Queda, not according to Bush or American. We as Asian understand that region. Al Queda, is nothing but combination of Pakistan Army recruits from Islamic countries, trained by Pakistani Army and run by Pakistani Army. Previously, it was openly funded by Saudi and US, now it is under desk by Saudi and other Islamic countries. Till “Al Queda” leaders are safe and sound in Pakistan, after every short duration new fish will be delivered to Pakistan. US or Pentagon understand this equation very well, to keep cat in bag. They are sitting in front of cat, they think leash in their hand. Now how this understanding will evaporate is 1 million dollar question. I don’t think in near future it is possible. Regarding India, whether US give F16 or not, Pakistan already has access to F16 in Middle East. Indian defense is pretty good. They should keep watch on Pakistan and keep making noise but don’t let there guards down.
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 5 2004, 12:28 PM ROTFL.gif The privatisation commission says it has no idea where the money has gone The latest report of the Auditor General of Pakistan (AGP), which will shortly be presented before the parliament’s Public Accounts Commission (PAC), has revealed the startling fact that approximately Rs70 billion, incurred after selling government banks, industrial units and public enterprises in the last decade, were not utilised for the purpose of debt retirement as planned. What is worse is the admission by the Privatisation Commission (PC) that it has “no idea” where the money has gone. Earlier, in 2002 also, PAC had enquired about the use of this money but was given no details. This time the AGP has brought the issue before the politically elected PAC. The scam about the missing billions first surfaced when a team of AGP auditors went to examine the Privatisation Commission’s accounts for the year 2001 and asked them to give details on how the money generated from the sale of public institutions and factories to the private sector was utilised. However, the PC flatly refused to cooperate with the auditors and informed them that only the finance ministry could question them on such matters. The auditors then contacted the finance ministry but could draw only vague answers. Subsequently, the AGP decided to refer the issue to PAC, which is authorised to examine audit reports of all government departments. According to information gathered by TFT from different sources, in September 1993, former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto, decided to get rid of the “sick” industrial units running in the public sector. She took a policy decision in the cabinet under which all funds generated through the sale of these units were to be used for debt retirement. Consequently, an ordinance was promulgated, stating that debt – foreign and domestic – retirement funds would be financed by the proceeds of the privatisation of state-owned enterprises, banks and financial institutions. But Ms Bhutto could not execute the new fiscal policy and the ordinance expired in 1994, hardly four months after its promulgation. Subsequently, she decided that although a substantial portion of the funds generated through privatisation would be used for retiring debt, a “small” portion would also be used to meet capital expenditures for social action and infrastructure development programmes. Now, 10 years after this policy, the AGP has observed that funds generated through privatisation were not utilised for debt retirement. According to available details, money generated by the privatisation commission was deposited in a special account set up under the title of “Special Account Privatisation Commission Fund”. Because the account was created and operated by the State Bank of Pakistan, and was therefore outside government books, expenditures met through this account were not subjected to pre-auditing by government auditors. Not surprisingly, auditors have serious reservations about the way the account was set up and then used to make “unspecified” payments. “The procedure that should have been followed is this: the proceeds of the privatisation commission should have been credited to the federal consolidated fund in accordance with article 78 of the constitution, and then allocated for various expenditures with the approval of the legislature,” an auditor told TFT. “That done, all payments from the fund should have been made only after receiving permission from AGPR, Islamabad.” The latest twist in the story is PC’s confession that it had in fact been using privatisation proceeds for its own ‘expenditures’ However, when the AGP pointed out that it (PC) could only spend amounts specified in its annual budget, PC’s convenient reply was that the funds were deposited in a special account at the SBP with the approval of the ministry of finance and thus in accordance with the provisions of the privatisation commission ordinance 2000. In fact – as pointed out by PC officials – in a PAC meeting held on July 26, 2002, former PCO Secretary, Waqar Ahmed, had openly announced to participants that out of the Rs70 billion collected in total,Rs60 billion had been transferred to the finance ministry, while the remaining Rs10 billion had been given to the PC to meet its own ‘expenditures’. The reaction of PAC to this matter-of-fact statement was obvious: the secretary was asked why PC was being allowed to keep such a big amount in its account for unspecified and unapproved expenditures. A PC financial advisor present at the meeting also objected to this ‘abuse’ of privatisation money and said that the PC had no right over these funds and was allocated an annual budget to meet its expenditures. Once again, the PC tried to wiggle out of providing answers by referring PAC to the finance ministry. Ironically, when the question of the money’s use was put before the finance secretary, he too failed to give a satisfactory reply. Clearly, PC has played all the cards it could, one by one: first it was the finance ministry saving its back and now, it’s the PCO 2000. “The PC has run to the PCO 2000 for cover, forgetting that it cannot hide behind an ordinance that was issued in 2000, six years after it set up the special account with the SBP,” said an analyst. As things stand, it is almost as if no one knows what happened to the billions generated from the sale of public institutions and industries. Either that, or all the parties involved have some sort of ulterior motive in keeping the details of this scam hidden from the AGP. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 5 2004, 01:04 PM
What is worse is the admission by the Privatisation Commission (PC) that it has “no idea” where the money has gone.
Bilal Mushy's Bank Account in Boston. biggrin.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 5 2004, 01:44 PM
Its not for nothing that you get a top banker in top spot .. pakee.gif
Posted by: Sunder Nov 5 2004, 02:22 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Nov 6 2004, 01:34 AM)
What is worse is the admission by the Privatisation Commission (PC) that it has “no idea” where the money has gone.
Bilal Mushy's Bank Account in Boston. biggrin.gif
If at all this is proved and snowballs, then a bank clerk of the Islamic Bank of Pindi will be called on national television and asked to apologise in english, and will be let off after being kalled a herrow.
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 6 2004, 08:16 AM Eight soldiers were killed and nine injured in two separate landmine blasts near Kaniguram in South Waziristan on Wednesday. This is one of the worst single-day losses since May this year when the army launched a massive operation in Wana to flush out the militants. On October 19, speaking to the press, the Peshawar corps commander Lt-Gen Safdar Hussain put the official figure of fatalities at 171 soldiers killed. The death toll of the militants so far is 246 confirmed, out of which more than 100 are claimed by the government to be foreigners. For the period May-October, the total casualties on the government side with IEDs (improvised explosive devices) that are blown up through remote control have been 101, with 21 dead and 80 wounded. This figure does not include the recent casualties. What does this show? For a start, the way events have been unfolding in South Waziristan, it is clear that Islamabad is in for a long haul. What was probably thought of as a short, quick surgical operation has proved to be a tricky affair because of local support for the Al Qaeda-Taliban elements. Therefore, the issue of casualties and what can be done to minimise them assumes great importance. While the government might have lived with high casualties if the operation had ended quickly, it cannot do so with the operation lingering on. Questions are already being asked about whether the troops are prepared for a long haul without being hurt by the rate of attrition. Is there any indication that the support for the militants is declining in the area? If the answer is in the negative, then clearly there is need to see why that is so. Is the government doing enough, apart from the use of force, to win over the population? Is the intelligence good enough for the correct identification of the targets and their efficient engagement? The answer to this specific question is not very encouraging if we look at the case of Abdullah Mehsud, the tribesman who was released from Guantanomo Bay and returned to South Waziristan only to resume his militant activities. Clearly, Pakistani intelligence while debriefing him could not pick up the right signals from him. His act of kidnapping two Chinese engineers was highly embarrassing for Pakistan. The killing of one of them was even worse. Pictures of Pakistani troops, especially the paramilitary jawans, flashed by wire agencies worldwide, show one thing very clearly. They still lack the body armour essential for carrying out the kind of operation that the situation in South Waziristan requires. The toll, as given out by the Peshawar corps commander, is actually favourable to the militants if we add to it the casualties sustained by the troops through IED attacks. We do not know whether the government is trying to get the equipment necessary to reduce the number of casualties but reports suggest that so far the troops operating in the area do not have sweeper vehicles that could be effective against IEDs and which could be used at the head of convoys; neither do they have jammers with which to disable the trigger mechanism of remote-controlled devices used for blowing up the IEDs. The government will of course have to accept a certain rate of attrition in any such operation. But the point here is that the attrition so far has been disturbingly high and since the operation is likely to continue for a much longer duration than was initially thought, it makes sense to take all military and non-military precautions and steps to reduce the casualty rate Cheers
Posted by: Mudy Nov 6 2004, 09:08 AM
They still lack the body armour essential for carrying out the kind of operation that the situation in South Waziristan requires.
Now they want body armour from US.
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 7 2004, 07:14 AM pakee.gif
ISLAMAWORST - As the country direly needs new water storages, the proposed Kalabagh Dam’s cost has increased almost by 300 per cent since 1997 with top authorities unable to take a final decision on its construction despite making tall claims to have more reservoirs. The Nation has learnt reliably here that Kalabagh Dam’s cost was projected to be Rs 250 billion in 1997 which has now increased to the tune of Rs 660 billion if construction work is started immediately.
Some one has to pay for Billal Riff Raff’s Citi Bank Account Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 7 2004, 07:16 AM liar.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 7 2004, 11:40 AM
"The chief justice also observed that functions related to marriage such as mayun/rasm-i-henna, baraat and the custom of giving large dowries were of Hindu origin and had nothing to do with the Islamic concept of marriage," Dawn reported
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 9 2004, 09:43 AM Flush.gif
The first reason is obviously the security deficit in the country. We have witnessed the abduction and killing of Chinese engineers; the blast at a five-star hotel in Islamabad; and the attack on a gas field near Kohat, where a Hungarian-led team was at work. Such incidents are a source of consternation for foreign investors. What makes these events even more alarming is the way that we normally indulge in damage-control exercises, presumably to secure our country’s image. In the case of the Marriott Hotel blast, for instance, we made ourselves a laughing stock by telling the world that the explosion was caused by electrical short-circuit — an explanation that did not wash with anyone. Just as we were trying to protect our image, Abdullah Mehsud threw a bombshell, claiming that it was he who was responsible for the blast.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: SSridhar Nov 10 2004, 08:52 AM - A reply from TSPian to a certain Naresh Wadhera rolleyes.gif Well done Mr. Naresh Wadhera, whoever you are. Excerpts:
Naresh Wadhera Ji, the purpose of writing this is not to dispute but to find common ground. Naresh Wadhera Ji writes: “With the Greatest of Respect I am sure that you’re aware of the following: 1. Pakistan’s Population is ONE SEVENTH of India’s. 2. Pakistan’s GDP of $95 billion is ONE SIXTH of India’s GDP of $599 billion 3. Pakistan’s Area is about ONE FOURTH of India’s. 4. Pakistan’s Coastline is ONE SEVENTH of India’s. 5. Pakistan has a Total Land Boundary of 6,774 kilometres of which only 2,912 kilometres are with India. Of the remaining 523 kilometres is with the Fraternal Friend China and 3,309 kilometres with Islamic Brother Countries (Afghanistan 2,430 kilometres and Iran 909 kilometres). India’s Total Land Boundary is 14,000 kilometres. Thus Pakistan has to guard only ONE FIFTH the Land Boundary as India. “However Pakistan’s military Strength is ONE HALF of India’s (650,000 against 1,200,000) “I see no reason why Pakistan should have more than ONE FIFTH the Armed Forces of India. As such, Pakistan should reduce its Armed Forces Strength to AT LEAST ONE FOURTH that of India. It can safely reduce its Armed Forces to One Half the present size and still have One Fourth the Armed Forces Strength as India. “I await your comments on this matter.” The pathetic reply to the brilliant letter above was, Frankly, I lack means to immediately comment on Captain Wadhera’s elegant figures. The purpose of my ‘advice’ was not to pick and show lice from anyone’s head but for peace and friendship’s sake to help straighten the head itself. I am afraid entering into a bickering over statistics would trivialise the spirit of what I wrote. But let me try to summarise in plain words what I gather is being said: (a) India has seven times more people to feed therefore it is incumbent on her to have a proportionately bigger army; (b) India has approximately six times the riches and can consequently afford more waste; © India is four times bigger so it is natural for it to act big; (d) India does not like Pakistan’s having more than a fifth of its own armed forces but it would not reduce the size of its own army.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 10 2004, 03:01 PM
Well done Captain!!! Here comes .... Does he know where he is ???? guitar.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 10 2004, 03:05 PM
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 12 2004, 04:33 AM Flush.gif 1. State Bank's reserves fall by $258m 2. Other Bank’s reserves increase by USD 31 Billion. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: acharya Nov 13 2004, 03:51 PM
The Ambassador Embassy of East Pakistan ( Embassy of Bangladesh ) 28 - Queens Gate London SW7 5JA Britain Bangladesh Pakistan Union Bangladesh + Kashmir + Pakistan = UNITED PAKISTAN Honourable Ambassador, My name is Mohammed Nazrul Islam. My country of origin is Bangladesh, to which, we call East Pakistan nowadays. I am the Resident Director of Bangladesh department, which is the part of our parent organization, "Campaign against Gandhi Terrorism", chaired by our Australian Chief Executive, Madam Elizabeth Khan, who is commonly known in our German head office as an "Ocean of Knowledge". At the same time, I am also the Chairman of my own independent organization called, BANGLADESH PAKISTAN UNION based in the financial city of Frankfurt, Germany. I am running Bangladesh Pakistan Union with my immediate Deputy Chairman, Mateen Ahmed, who is also an indigenous Bangladeshi, or East Pakistani as we prefer to call ourselves nowadays. Mateen is an Economist and I am a Civil Engineer by profession. All East Pakistanis working in my and Shiraz & Elizabeth's 25 revolutionary organizations call themselves East Pakistanis because this is exactly we are. We are not Bangladeshis any more. A vast number of educated and professional East Pakistanis have now come to a determined and firm realization that the formation of Bangladesh was nothing but a mistake. We want to rectify this mistake now. During my last years visit to my native city Chittagong, East Pakistan, sitting in my newly purchased mansion in the privileged and affluent part of the city, I enquired both my aged parents a question, which I have asked them several time in the past and would keep asking them in the future : " Was the formation of Bangladesh a mistake " ????? "Is it true that the Bangalis were economically and socially better off before, as compared to what they are now" ???? My mother grabbed my arm and started crying loudly, which lastd for several minutes. She always starts to cry whenever I ask this question and never gives a verbal answer. Her expression of mind comes only and only through a flood of tears constantly emerging from her eyes, which gives me a clear direction as to what her answer may be. And the reply of my fathr is always a despairing, empty and lifeless stare in my eyes, while attempting to control the unbearable avalanche of his tears, after which, he asks his usual question : "Why do you always renew our wounds" ????? "What do you get out of it" ?????? My father wants to cry also but in our society in East Pakistan, it is considered to be non-masculine for the men to become publicly tearful. So he goes away and permits the unhindered passage of his tears away from us in the other room. But as usual, I know the answer of both my parents that the formation of Bangladesh is now considered to be a mistake ---- an ideology, which is now being accepted by a growing number of East Pakistanis in East Pakistan and in Europe. My mother's dejecting and heart breaking continous cries and my father's lifeless look clearly written all over his face tells me a great deal about the mode of their inner thoughts. Gandhi Terrorism in East Pakistan Indra Gandhi's hindu terrorism is now called, Gandhi terrorism in Germany. Bangladesh was formed in the unfortunate year of 1971 with the full assistance of Indra Gandhi whose terrorism is now called Gandhi Terrorism. The purpose of Indra Gandhi's terrorism in East Pakistan was to divide and weaken united Pakistan into small segments and not to "liberate" the "oppressed" Bangalis from the so called tyranny of West Pakistan. It astonishes us to see that Indra Gandhi is never classified as a Gandhi terrorist, but as a clever politician. Indra Gandhi was a terrorist and she should be remembered only as a terrorist and not as a liberator of East Pakistan. During my University era in East Pakistan, I remember reading several books compiled by the Hindu Agent and War Criminal of East Pakistan, Mujibur Rahman. In these books, he had attempted to convince us of the economic prosperity soon to be enjoyed by the inhabitants of Bangladesh. His books were full of comparative charts and mathematical figures, which even for the educated people like myself, were quite difficult to understand while for the illiterate masses, it was completely impossible to understand. But then the illiterate public in the eastern countries is easily convinced by the thunderous speeches delivered by the clever politicians who have one face in public and completely another in private. The Hindu Agent & War Criminal of East Pakistan, Mujibur Rahman and all his fellow politicians were exactly the same --- thunderous speakers and full of promises. One such promise was to turn Bangladesh into the richest country in the world within a few years. His silly logic was that East Pakistan grew golden fibre which fetched a valuable price in the international market, which was all devoured by West Pakistan. So according to this false promise, if the Bangalis win independence, they would be able to spend this golden fibre income solely upon themselves thus enriching their nation within no time. He also gave false promises and false mathematical data about the vast number of paper mills telling us that their income was also usurped by the regime of West Pakistan. So if we gain independence, we would be able to formulate the economy of our country ourselves and will become the richest nation in virtually no time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This "prosperity in virtually no time" never materialized. It has been 33 years now and our East Pakistanis are still eagerly waiting for the prosperity falsely promised by the Hindu agent and War criminal of Bangladesh, Mujibur Rahman. Mujibur Rahman also spoke endlessly of the cruel atrocities committed by the West Pakistan Army, which to some extent is true. But not many people are aware of the fact that most of these rapes, geocides, terrorist acts and indiscriminate murders were committed by the Gandhi terrorist hindus while wearing the uniforms of Pakistani army. The clear intention behind this wicked act was to put the entire blame of these war crimes upon West Pakistan, which worked very well in the past, but not any more. East Pakistanis have woken up to the facts and realities and know the truth better than what they knew in post 1971 era. The bitter truth and reality about the war in East Pakistan is that around 20% of the atrocities were committed by the Pakistan army and the rest 80% were committed by the Gandhi terrorists coming from India, who carried out a massacre of the civilians while wearing Pakistani army uniforms. So, East Pakistan became more poor and destitute after its sad formation by the Gandhi terrorists in 1971, but then what happened with the economic affairs of our West Pakistan ???? Since it lost a great deal of export income from the export of paper and raw golden fibre all over the world, it must have become very very very very very very poor then !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have visited West Pakistan many times, once with Shiraz and Elizabeth and several times on my own. I have seen every major city in West Pakistan, particularly the beautiful and fascinating Islamabad, which is like the paradise on earth. Those who have seen Islamabad can truthfully say that it is the most beautiful city in the world and according to the common proverb used in West Pakistan it is said : "Allah has promised ONE paradise to all muslims in the next world. But to the Pakistanis, Allah has promised TWO paradises --- Islamabad in this world and Jannat in the next. During my stay in West Pakistan, I visited several cities and met many people, a large number of whom were my fellow East Pakistanis living in much prosperous West Pakistan. When I asked several of them, whether they ever wanted to return back to East Pakistan or not, the common answer was a clear NO. Some told of their desire of returning back once they had earned enough money so that they could give a better future to their children in East Pakistan, which they themselves never enjoyed in the land of golden fibre, paper mills and false promises ---- Bangladesh. Needless to say that unlike Gandhi terrorist India, there is a complete social equality between all people in West Pakistan. As an East Pakistani living in Germany, I clearly observed this fact by making many friends in Pakistan, many of whom were the members of Shiraz's family. They were all very nice, kind and good to me and never expressed any remark or even a hint indicating their animosity against the East Pakistanis. I never detected the presence of any such feelings anywhere in West Pakistan. Pakistan is the country of a balanced social equality and with no unjust and cruel widow burnings and satanic caste system, which is the part of the Hindu society in India. Furthermore, West Pakistan has never seen communal riots between hindus and muslims, something which happens in Gandhi terrorist India all the time. West Pakistan is truly a peaceful country. We have no doubt left in our minds now that the formation of Bangladesh was a mistake and we want to rectify this blunder by re-joining with our senior brother, West Pakistan. While firmly holding the hands of Shiraz, Elizabeth, my deputy Mateen Ahmed, our Khalsa brothers Paramjeet Singh, Sukhvinder Singh & his wife Juliet Noxville Singh of Khalistan Pakistan Solidarity, I request to all that we extend our hands to all of you hoping that you would join us for the formation of this oncoming union between Bangladesh and West Pakistan. This great union would be geographically, politically, socially and economically, very beneficial to Bangladesh and Pakistan both. Living together and in unity, we will both be much stronger and strategically will be better positioned to confront the GANDHI TERRORIST HINDUS of India. Through this unity we may also very well succeed in dividing GANDHI TERRORIST INDIA in two parts, if not in several, exactly the same way, as terrorist India divided Pakistan in two parts in 1971. Our collective request to the East Pakistanis, West Pakistanis and all the like minded people is to join our hands and ask others to join us also. Our mutual prosperity, strength, existence and bright future is firmly tied with this geographical union which would bring many benefits to both nations, while subduing and destroying the biggest and the bloodiest terrorist in subcontinent ----- GANDHI TERRORIST INDIA.
Posted by: acharya Nov 13 2004, 03:55 PM
Impact of Bush Victory on Muslim World The American Muslims supported John Kerry in the presidential election. They hoped that John kerry as President would have addressed the worst excesses of the Patriot Act and humiliated them less. But neither Bush nor Kerry (nor indeed the majority in America) is willing to side with the victims of occupation and oppression in Kashmir or Palestine. But there was a small difference between Bush and Kerry. For Bush Iran is the principal evil in the world; for Kerry it is Saudi Arabia. Bush would invade Iran and Syria to provide Israel complete security. Kerry would have invaded Saudi Arabia, and pressurised and demonised Pakistan. The effect of the election campaign (in which Bush was accused of having gone off to Iraq while the 'business' in Afghanistan was still unfinished) is that Iran and Syria would be invaded AFTER liquidating resistance in Iraq. America has invaded and occupied only Afghanistan and Iraq but it rules every Muslim country through its local rulers who act like American Viceroys. That makes the rulers illegitimate in the eyes of their people because they do not even try to represent the hopes and fears of their people. If democracy was introduced in Muslim countries, all the American Viceroys would be ousted from power. The Muslim peoples and America are on the same side - of democracy - in their political objectives. But they are on opposite sides in their polity (purpose of the state). The impact of the dichotomy is evident in Iraq. The Muslim Rulers have yet to learn that even a Viceroy is allowed to voice the hopes and fears of the people. And America has yet to see that true democracy would liquidate American presence and influence in the Muslim World. No American president has the will or the mandate to deal with the dichotomy. Wanton bloodshed of Muslims would continue in more and more countries under second Bush Administration. He has no other policy; he knows no better. The majority in America agrees with him. Usman Khalid Director London Institute of South Asia
Posted by: acharya Nov 13 2004, 03:59 PM
India's world begins with the neighbourhood. Which is why Sri Lankan President Chandrika Bandaranaike Kumaratunga and Pakistani political leaders Imran Khan and Altaf Hussain have been invited by the Leadership Initiative to provide perspectives on the problems and challenges that face South Asia. India is a country of 1200 million people. It is a market many times bigger that NAFTA and EC and smaller only than China. It is the poorest country in South Asia with the lowest per capita GDP. Yet, instead of raising the standard of living of the biggest segment of humanity living below poverty line any where in the world, it focusses on getting its neighbours into its imperial embrace. There is no country that wants to invade India; it represents huge problems and few resources. The only threat it faces is of internal insurrections and yet it is ever seeking to equip itself with the most lethal WMDs and a blue water navy that are no use against guerilla insurrection. Has India gone mad? Is the madness such that it is not cured even by the defeat of Hindu fascists (BJP and its allies) in elections early this year? The answer to both questions is, yes! The Congress, the BJP and the Communists parties all have a Brahmin core and therefore a Hindu agenda. The rest of the world is unaware that the Brahmins are only 3 per cent of the population of India and that Hinduism has three million gods but only one belief - that people are born unequal and the Brahmins are superior. One who believes in Brahmin being superior by birth, is a Hindu. Altaf Hussain has a Muslim name but he is a Hindu. To convert to Hinduism is that easy. Salman Rushdie also became a Hindu without renouncing Islam. The problem is that the 'superior Brahmin' is a foreign implant in India; they are Aryan in origin and have never permitted marriage with indigenous peoples or low castes. The Muslims and Christians of India (who are mostly converts) are a part of the indigenous peoples of India - called Bahujan - but the Brahmins are not. The Bahujan have become aware that they are an overwhelming majority in India and started to organise their separate political parties and vote blocks. The BJP was defeated by the Bahujan. Congress party is in power because of Bahujan and Communist support. The Brahmin is worried. He wants more and more people in the Hindu fold to show to the Bahujan that even the neighbours are eager to come into its fold; why are they leaving it? I do not know about Imran Khan, but Altaf Hussain decries Islam, the Two Nation Theory and Kashmiri freedom struggle. He constitutes a proof of India's victory. India does not need a bigger market; it wants converts. No one can become a Brahmin but any one can become a Hindu by mere 'deference' to Brahmin. But a Bahujan convert, who already had a Hindu name, is not much use to the Brahmin; it is a Hindu with a Muslim name like Farooq Abdullah, Altaf Hussain and their likes that India is eager to parade in Delhi as proof of the warmth and power of its embrace. + Usman Khalid + Director London Institute of South Asia
Posted by: Sunder Nov 14 2004, 01:51 AM,00050002.htm I suspect, this means the US is planning on giving the F-16's afterall. (Whenever there is such a public statement, I fear it is a diversion.)
Posted by: rhytha Nov 14 2004, 02:17 AM
QUOTE (acharya @ Nov 14 2004, 04:29 AM)
I do not know about Imran Khan, but Altaf Hussain decries Islam, the Two Nation Theory and Kashmiri freedom struggle. He constitutes a proof of India's victory. India does not need a bigger market; it wants converts. No one can become a Brahmin but any one can become a Hindu by mere 'deference' to Brahmin. But a Bahujan convert, who already had a Hindu name, is not much use to the Brahmin; it is a Hindu with a Muslim name like Farooq Abdullah, Altaf Hussain and their likes that India is eager to parade in Delhi as proof of the warmth and power of its embrace. + Usman Khalid + Director London Institute of South Asia
Classic example for pakistan is islam and islam is pakistan. specool.gif Altaf Hussain, Farooq Abdulla critize pakistan which in effect critzes Islam, so they are not muslims but Hindus. tongue.gif And this guy is "Director" 'London Institute of South Asia' laugh.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 14 2004, 08:16 AM pakee.gif Sir: The death of the Palestinian leader, Yasser Arafat, brings to mind two sharply contrasting incidents during the tenure of two equally contrasting governments in Pakistan. The first image that comes to mind is the ruthless massacre of Palestinians in 1970 at the hands of Pakistani troops stationed in Jordan. The soldiers who etched a ‘Black September’ on Palestinian memory were commanded by Brigadier (later General) Ziaul Haq***. The general was paid a reward of twenty thousand pounds by the former Jordanian monarch for carrying out the operation. He used that amount to buy a car which he kept for several years. During that time, he never even paid the token tax. He was already Chief Martial Law Administrator when he decided to sell the car. He used this position to issue an order waiving road tax payments for all the previous years. The second image that comes to mind is the historic 1974 Islamic Summit in Pakistan, to which Arafat was specially invited. Then in his early-forties, Arafat was already emerging as the leader whose passion could give voice to the Palestinian people who were dispossessed of hearth and home; as the leader who could rejuvenate their weary spirit. During that Summit, the Palestinian Liberation Organisation was recognised by the Muslim world as the sole voice of the Palestinian people. Arafat was instantly hailed as the president of the PLO, a position he held throughout his life that was replete with sagas of great personal courage and tragedy. Arafat proved himself worthy of the Muslim world’s unanimous recognition of he and the PLO during the 1974 summit. Since then he was dogged by the shadows of assassination and war but always stood defiant. When the Palestinian problem is resolved, and resolved it will be one day, Arafat will be remembered as the leader who held the Palestinian flag for decades. The Lahore Islamic summit and the democratic government of Zulfikar Ali Bhutto will be remembered as the occasion when the Muslims of the world unanimously reposed their trust in Arafat to hold that flag. By contrast, Zia and his ilk will be remembered for attempting to crush Arafat and his PLO. It is the responsibility of independent media to bring out these two important incidents in the life of Arafat in their obituary programmes and articles on the late Palestinian leader. MAJOR GENERAL ® NASEERULLAH BABAR Peshawar *** : Lotastaanis – the Exterminators of Palestinian Muslims – call themselves “Captain of the Islamic Ummah” Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 14 2004, 08:20 AM
QUOTE (rhytha @ Nov 14 2004, 02:47 PM)
Altaf Hussain, Farooq Abdulla critize pakistan which in effect critzes Islam, so they are not muslims but Hindus. tongue.gif And this guy is "Director" 'London Institute of South Asia' laugh.gif
rhytha : Boss, you seem to forget the Brigadier Usman Khalid with his Terrorist Fundamentalist Hatred of India The "Director" 'London Institute of South Asia' - The Institute is is fully owned by him – A case of Old Sh*t in New Flush.gif Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 15 2004, 04:13 PM Illegal substances all the rage in Islamic state's underground scene By Naveen Naqvi
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 16 2004, 08:34 AM,1280,-4618066,00.html
Security officials in Southeast Asia say members of the regional extremist group Jemaah Islamiyah attended hardline religious schools in Pakistan, and that some joined al-Qaida recruits from the Middle East at terror training camps in Afghanistan prior to the U.S.-led war there.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 16 2004, 08:48 AM
Pakistan national sport is terrorism, Pakistan is just looking for Gold medal. biggrin.gif
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 16 2004, 10:08 AM
Mudy Ji : If it was ‘’Sport’’ then the World would have tried to and succeeded in Destroying it. Unfortunately it is in the Lotastaani Genes and as such there is no cure. furious.gif Harsh, but, True. Cheers
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 18 2004, 05:54 AM
ISLAMAWORST - The projected water shortage of 44 per cent in Rabi season would have devastating impact on the wheat production target set for 2004-05 as the government anticipates the loss of 0.5 million tons whereas the experts believe it could be well over one million tons.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: acharya Nov 19 2004, 03:17 PM
Who was in power in Egypt, Syria, and Jordan in 1967 and in Pakistan in 1971 when the ummah sustained the most shameful defeat in it's history? Islamists or secularists? Dear Sister Bint Waleed, ASA. What you say is an oversimplification. It is not merely the character or the conviction of the rulers that delivers victories. It is planning by the state and the steadfastness of a people that delivers victories. Saddam Hussain was not a paragon of virtue by secular or religious yardstick. But he had the sense to see that American invasion was inevitable and he could not frustrate them except by guerilla war after occupation. He prepared his people for it and they are displaying requisite steadfastness to implement the strategy. Muslims all over the world are proud of the fighting spirit being shown by them and we pay tribute to them for being 'occupied but not subdued.' The lesson to be learnt from the failure to defend East Pakistan in 1971 is that enemy subversion is more effective than the enemy's invasion. The people of East Pakistan were subverted but the people of Iraq were not despite having been ruled by the secular Baath Party for decades. It was well known to the people of East Pakistan that the Awami League leadership was secular and agents of India. Yet they gave them a landslide victory in 1970 Elections. That transformed the Pakistan Army into an Army of occupation overnight. It is never difficult to defeat an Army of occupation as proved in East Pakistan and now in Iraq. Sincerely Brigadier (retd) Usman Khalid Director London Institute of South Asia
Posted by: acharya Nov 19 2004, 03:18 PM
The ongoing Waziristan debacle is nothing but a foil to keep Pak fauj embroiled in internal security and as a reward to the Musharraf regime the Indian Fauj has been warned of misadventure in Kashmir by good old Uncle Sam plus the added gifts of Green Pine radar and A&EW Phalcon system to keep 'em sweet! No forward policy in Afghanistan or Kashmir is on the cards till the 'war on terror' runs out of steam or Musharraf is replaced by and independent strategic thinking COAS. The brahmin mentality will NOT give an inch of Bharat Mata so only force and international pressure will suffice! Regards, ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Asim Khan Information Services & Systems King's College London My Dear Asim, ASA. I agree with you. Uncle Sam is playing its games as usual. But I wonder if Pakistan realises that time is on its side not India's. While it was wise of Pakistan to break the ice by making its proposals I fear that Musharraf may compromise Pakistan's position on Kashmir without getting anything in return. However, I do think that it provides an opportunity for Syed Ali Geelani, leader of APHC, to replace Pakistan as the anchor interlocutor with India. Sincerely +Usman Khalid+ Director London Institute of South Asia
Posted by: Mudy Nov 19 2004, 04:42 PM
Who was in power in Egypt, Syria, and Jordan in 1967 and in Pakistan in 1971 when the ummah sustained the most shameful defeat in it's history?
1967 was 6 six day war with Israel, Egypt - Nasser was president - Nasser strove to make Egypt the undisputed leader of a united Arab world; his chief and most effective rallying cry for Arab unity remained his denunciation of Israel and his call for that country's extinction. Nasser assumed near absolute control in 1967 by taking over the premiership and the leadership of the Arab Socialist Union (ASU), the country's sole political party. Syria -Coup in 1966 President Hafiz (Baath Party) was put in jail and Hafez al-Assad took over - Baath Party (Socialist) Jordan -King Hussein All above were USSR stooges. Pakistan was under, Martial Law under General Yahya Khan [1969-71] - US stooge
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 19 2004, 04:57 PM
BHUTTO, GENERAL ZIA & PAK-ISRAEL TIES.Dear Friends, Both Pakistan and Israel came into being with the difference of one year and leaders and founders of both the countries though Secular used the religion ideology for the justification of Pakistan and Israel but both the countries are in turmoil and there is no let up. Former COAS General Mirza Aslam Baig had once said that Pakistan should accept Israel as there is no direct conflict between the two states but the same General Baig sees nowadays Jewish Conspiracy behind everything particularly the things which are being published in the press against him. {Whereas founder of Pakistan Late. Mohammad Ali Jinnah was an avid fan of Mufti Ameenal Hussaini and Jinnah as per general information was against the creation of Israel}. 1- Democratic Government and Israel {the Bhutto govt. which we maligned as a dictatorial govt.}: In the 1973 Arab-Israeli war, Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan charged that Pakistani pilots were flying Jordanian aircraft that took part in the war.35 According to one Pakistani account, during the war “Pakistan pilots defended Syrian skies and even shot down an Israeli plane.” Prime Minister Zulfikar Ali Bhutto promised President Hafiz al-Assad that “should Damascus be in danger from the Zionists, a Pakistan brigade would be ready to fly over and fight shoulder-to-shoulder with the Syrians. 2- Dictatorship and Israel {General Zia who was considered Commander of the Faithful and all the religious parties were with him including Jamat-e-Islami of Maudoodi}: The most promising comparison between the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the Jewish State of Israel came from Gen. Zia ul-Haq. Lacking a political constituency, he skillfully exploited Islam to legitimize and consolidate his military dictatorship. Presenting himself as a simple, pious and devoted Muslim, he institutionalized religious radicalism in Pakistan. In so doing, he found Israel to be his strange ally. Toward the end of 1981, he remarked: “Pakistan is like Israel, an ideological state. Take out the Judaism from Israel and it will fall like a house of cards. Take Islam out of Pakistan and make it a secular state; it would collapse.”61 He likewise surprised many observers in March 1986, when he called on the PLO to recognize the Jewish state.62 As discussed elsewhere, he was actively involved both in the 1970 Black September massacre of the Palestinians in Jordan as well as in Egypt’s re-entry into the Islamic fold more than a decade later. From 1967 to 1970 our Commander of the Faithful Late. General Muhammad Ziaul Haq was in Jordan in Official Militray Capacity and he helped late. King Hussain of Jordan in ‘cleansing’ the so-called Palestinian Insurgents, Zia and Hussain butchered many innocent Palestinians in the name of Operation against Black September {a militant organization of Palestinians}. The intensity of bloodletting by Zia ul Haq and King Hussain was such that one of the founder father of Israel Moshe Dayan said: “King Hussein (with help from Zia-ul-Haq of the Pakistani army) sent in his Bedouin army on 27 September to clear out the Palestinian bases in Jordan. A massacre of innumerable proportions ensued. Moshe Dayan noted that Hussein "killed more Palestinians in eleven days than Israel could kill in twenty years." Dayan is right in spirit, but it is hardly the case that anyone can match the Sharonism in its brutality.” Dear friends, for your record and kind perusal an exhaustive report on Pakistan Israel ties prepared by P. R. Kumaraswamy Beyond the Veil: Israel-Pakistan Relations Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies (JCSS) is given below. click me! Memories of Barbarity: Sharonism and September By Vijay Prashad April 9, 2002 in COUNTERPUNCH. Viijay Prashad teaches political science and international studies at Trinity College. He is the author of Everybody Was Kung Fu Fighting: Afro-Asian Connections and the Myth of Cultural Purity and The Karma of Brown Folk. Prashad can be reached at:
Posted by: Mudy Nov 19 2004, 06:25 PM
By his 7-division formula Musharraf has exposed himself to the wrath of many in uniform and others besides those who have now retired and who had been looking forward to avenging Pakistani military's defeat at Dhaka in 1971 with its victory over the Indians in Kashmir. Even astrologers who base their forecasts on the movements of the planets see lot of trouble for the General, more assassination attempts and advise him to sacrifice a black goat every Thursday until Ides of March is over to minimize the ill-effects of the hostile stars on him
biggrin.gif ohmy.gif biggrin.gif
Posted by: acharya Nov 19 2004, 06:30 PM
Even astrologers who base their forecasts on the movements of the planets see lot of trouble for the General, more assassination attempts and advise him to sacrifice a black goat every Thursday until Ides of March is over to minimize the ill-effects of the hostile stars on him
Posted by: Mudy Nov 20 2004, 09:14 AM
I have requested Captain Wadhera to post all his correspondence with Prof Hassan on this Forum so that we can understand both sides. It was really nice of Ijaz ul Hassan, who gave me Capt Wadhera email address.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 20 2004, 12:17 PM
advise him to sacrifice a black goat every Thursday until Ides of March
One Kashmiri made a comment after reading above, "General is doing holy duty by sacrificing Kashmiries everyday". sad.gif
Posted by: Naresh Nov 22 2004, 03:50 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Nov 20 2004, 09:44 PM)
I have requested Captain Wadhera to post all his correspondence with Prof Hassan on this Forum so that we can understand both sides. It was really nice of Ijaz ul Hassan, who gave me Capt Wadhera email address.
Mudy, Thank you very much for inviting me to join your esttemed Forums and I have applied for and been accepted as a Member. Many thanks indeed.
Posted by: Naresh Nov 22 2004, 04:41 AM VIEW: Democracy — an exercise in painting —Anjum Altaf The only democracy we can be allowed to have for the time being, given that the global dispensation calls for a democratic form, is a managed democracy in which the results that the whites want can be guaranteed ahead of time. For pointers and scorecards one might send an educational mission to some of the Central Asian republics Reality comes in many shades of brown but sometimes things are starkly evident in black and white. Think of South Africa during the time of Apartheid and it would be clear as daylight why the regime could not have been a democratic one. A tiny white minority ruled over a vast black majority. Any attempt to legitimise this dispensation by a vote would have ended in its certain demise. Hence: the resistance to democracy, the undemocratic treatment of the opposition, the failure to find a democratic compromise, and the ultimate rejection of the system by non-democratic means. When everyone is brown, the picture is seemingly more opaque although the underlying reality is not much different. Is it possible that a kindergarten exercise might help, at least in some situations, to sift the browns into more easily identifiable shades of blacks and whites? I am thinking of the colouring books in which pictures are drawn in outline ready to be filled in with colour. The books are very popular with children because they can indulge their creativity at least as far as the choice of colours is concerned. I would take a book like that, turn to a page with lots of human figures, and, for any given scenario, start painting them over in lily white and raven black. Take Pakistan in the late 1950s when it was headed for an election and the exercise was stopped in the tracks before it could begin. It seems quite plausible that someone did not particularly savour a democratic outcome. Who were the whites and who were the blacks in this picture? Let us colour them in. Or take Pakistan in the early 1970s with a fair electoral outcome on the table. Clearly this was not to the liking of some from amongst the players of Pakistan United. Let us identify and colour the blacks and the whites in this picture. And then let us begin anew in Pakistan West and Pakistan East with their own fresh sets of players in spanking whites and spanking blacks. The point I am trying to make is that if we find democracy so elusive it is not because we are the worst people in the world as some are fond of reiterating over and over again. It is because we are in a black and white situation in which the whites are mortally afraid of what would happen following a fair electoral outcome. There is resistance to a democratic outcome, the locus of that resistance can be identified, and the reasons for the resistance can be fathomed. I am not saying that the whites are all evil and the blacks are all good — far from it. There are good and bad, benevolent and despotic, sensitive and boorish individuals on both sides. I am not even saying that a democratic dispensation will be like the Garden of Eden with everyone bathing happily in streams of milk and honey exchanging pleasantries about the follies of bad old times. What I am saying is that ninety-nine times out of a hundred, the self-interest of a group trumps the individual goodness it contains. And, that we are locked in a situation in which we have not found a way by which the interests of the whites can be reconciled with the interests of the blacks through a democratic process. In such a situation waiting for a Mr Nice White Guy could turn out to be like waiting for Godot. Ergo, the only democracy we can be allowed to have for the time being, given that the global dispensation calls for a democratic form, is a managed democracy in which the results that the whites want can be guaranteed ahead of time. For pointers and scorecards one might send an educational mission to some of the Central Asian republics. If you doubt what I am arguing think again of Pakistan in the mid-1960s with the home team carefully queering the electoral pitch to yield a very basic kind of democracy. Or think of the not so ancient experience in Algeria with an election annulled and a new election orchestrated under new rules — Whites 1, Blacks 0 in overtime. And not as much as a false whistle from any corner. An interesting aspect of the painting exercise is that everyone will have their own individual prints — everyone’s blacks and whites would differ to some extent. And that is how it should be where people are free at least to think for themselves and have a cap-less head and an open mind to take advantage of that thinking. These blacks and whites are very contextual; they are not the manifestation of some Divine Will. If we colour enough pictures moving across the decades we might be amused to note that those who try and pass for blacks in one picture begin to look much more pale in another. And we might also be forced to leave some of the figures uncoloured to mark those who have either always been indifferent or have grown indifferent to the outcome of the great game. Who might these uncoloured folks be and what might they be looking for? I would put all my efforts up on a wall (call it Democracy Wall if you really want to rub it in or the op-ed page of the Daily Times if you want to be cheeky) and stare at them long and hard. I think I might be able to begin seeing things in black and white. And then I would stop waiting for Mr Nice Guy or Mr Bold and Upright or Mr Meek and Pious and think of other things to do. Like taking up painting or migrating to South Africa. Email:
Posted by: SSridhar Nov 22 2004, 06:40 AM
Mudy, It was really nice of Ijaz ul Hassan, who gave me Capt Wadhera email address.
While welcoming Captain Wadhera, can you please also ask Ijaz ul Hassan to join so that he can take part in meaningful debate ?
Posted by: Mudy Nov 22 2004, 09:28 AM
While welcoming Captain Wadhera, can you please also ask Ijaz ul Hassan to join so that he can take part in meaningful debate ?
Yes, I did and Naresh also want to discuss with Prof Hassan in this forum. I am hoping both will enlighten us. biggrin.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 22 2004, 07:17 PM
Indian 'saas-bahu' saga finds place in Pakistan's homes Monday November 22 2004 13:27 IST PTI JALANDHAR: Indian small screen soap operas and situational comedies seem to have crossed borders to find a place in Pakistan's homes, triggering a new penchant for the Indian "sarees" among women from the neighbouring country. Pakistani women stay glued to their television sets at Prime time to watch popular Indian serials like "Kasauti zindagi ki" and "Kyonki sas bhi kabhi bahu thi"' the female members of Pakistan's delegation, which is here as part of a cultural exchange, said, "these serials have also created a fascination among Pakistani women for the Indian sarees," Ayesha Rana, wife of media advisor to Chief Minister of Punjab province in Pakistan told PTI. "Even applying the Indian 'bindi' has become a fashion in Lahore," she said, adding "wherever women gathered, they talk about these TV serials and discuss the characters from them." Asked about the status of women in Pakistan, Ayesha said "as compared to their Indian counterparts most of them confine themselves to their homes." Sarwat Mohiuddin, a punjabi writer and member of Pakistan Punjabi literary board, said the board has demanded Punjabi language be included in the syllabus of primary schools.
Posted by: Peregrine Nov 23 2004, 10:02 AM,9171,1101041129-785360,00.html Why Pakistan still isn't aggressively pursuing the ex — Taliban leaders living inside the country Monday, Nov. 29, 2004 Mullah Mujahed, a veteran Taliban commander who has taken four bullets in his career as an Islamic warrior, is in a surprisingly good mood for a guy sharing a Kabul jail cell with a hungry rat. A burly figure with black locks and a black beard, Mujahed prays in a corner, oblivious to the progress of the rat as it tunnels under a gray blanket toward a bag of dates. Rising from prayer, the devout Taliban says through the bars of the cell, "When I was on jihad, the holy Prophet Muhammad talked to me in my dreams." Mujahed's Afghan and American interrogators are interested in other voices he heard during his time fighting U.S. forces, especially those voices that came from Pakistan. Mujahed was captured four months ago in the mountains of Afghanistan's Uruzgan province after an epic chase involving eight helicopters and dozens of troops. Afterward, Afghan intelligence found stored in his satellite telephone the numbers of several top Taliban military commanders, all hiding in Pakistan. His warden says Mujahed was caught with 60 remote-controlled bombs that he allegedly confessed to picking up in Pakistan after attending a Taliban war council in the southern city of Quetta. In the Afghan theatre of the war on terrorism, Pakistan — despite its close alliance with George W. Bush's Administration — is playing something of a double game. On the one hand, Islamabad has aggressively pursued al-Qaeda operatives since 9/11. It has arrested more than 600 suspects and handed most of them over to the U.S. Also, Pakistan has sent thousands of troops into the tribal areas to drive out al-Qaeda fighters hiding in the mountains along its Afghan border. But President Pervez Musharraf's government has done little to capture the many Taliban commanders who have fled into hiding in the country, according to Afghan officials and Taliban fighters and sympathizers in the frontier Pakistani cities of Quetta and Peshawar. Those exiles include Mohammed Omar, the one-eyed mullah who formerly led the Taliban. Pakistan's reluctance, according to a senior Kabul official, stems from its "nostalgia" for when Afghanistan was firmly within its orbit of influence. Letting the Taliban remain free gives Pakistan a card to play if or when the U.S. decides to vacate Afghanistan. "If money and support were to stop from the Pakistani side, the Taliban would be finished," says Mullah "Rocketi," a former Taliban commander who earned his nickname for his accuracy in shooting Soviet tanks and who spent time at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Islamabad's reluctance to crack down has allowed Afghan fundamentalists to use Pakistan as a refuge from which to recruit fresh militants and launch cross-border ambushes against U.S. and Afghan troops. Some ex — Taliban fighters even allege that several colonels in Pakistan's security agency, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), are funding former Taliban proteges through madrasahs, or religious schools, and mosques in border villages. "The ISI knows where the Taliban live," Mujahed says. "They could arrest us all in a day. But they don't bother us." His claims could be dismissed as an attempt to win favor with his Afghan jailers. Afghans often blame Pakistan for nearly every ill — a legacy of Islamabad's pre-9/11 support for the Taliban regime. But the prisoner's allegations are consistent with reports by Afghan and Western intelligence officials who contend that more than a dozen times in the past two years, they have alerted Pakistani authorities to the locations of specific Taliban hideouts, only to find that the extremists had slipped away before the raids started. (In response, Pakistani officials say the tip-offs were too sketchy.) "Right now," says a senior Afghan official, "we have solid evidence that Mullah Omar is hiding near Quetta." Two weeks ago, the elusive Taliban commander of the faithful issued his first message since July, renewing his call to fight Americans. Other Taliban bosses are living openly in Pakistani cities, according to Afghan intelligence officials and several jailed jihadis. A captured seminary dropout, for example, claims he was recruited to carry bombs into Afghanistan by a senior Taliban living in Peshawar's swanky Hyatabad district. And an Afghan who works with the U.S. in Kandahar, Afghanistan, says the former Taliban Defense Minister, Mullah Obaidullah Akhund, openly celebrated his marriage to a teenage bride in Quetta several months ago. "We know the entire al-Qaeda and Taliban leadership is on the other side, and we can't do a damn thing about it," a U.S. commander complained to his officers on a recent tour of a firebase on the Afghan side of the border. He called in a mortar round that exploded only a few hundred yards short of a Pakistani border post — a warning that U.S. patience was being pushed to the limits. America's impatience reaches all the way to the White House. At a New York City meeting in September of Bush, Musharraf and Afghan President Hamid Karzai, Bush turned to Musharraf and ticked off the names of several Taliban chiefs that U.S. intelligence officials had told him were hiding in Pakistan, according to a member of the Afghan delegation. Musharraf, says the source, denied any knowledge of them. "If the U.S. has specific evidence that the Taliban are hiding here," says presidential spokesman Major General Shaukat Sultan, "they should tell us, and we will act." Recently, Musharraf told reporters he was "exasperated" by claims that Taliban leaders were hiding in Pakistan. But Bush's talk with Musharraf may be paying off. Taliban followers say ties are fraying with their militant sponsors — and through them, the ISI. Money for arms, explosives and fresh recruits is drying up. As a result, says a mid-level commander, Taliban are no longer able to mount effective hit-and-run missions inside eastern Afghanistan. In addition, last month's Afghan presidential election seems to have sapped Taliban strength. Despite the extremists' attempts to sabotage voting, Karzai was the overwhelming victor among Pashtuns, the ethnic group of most Taliban. A Taliban spokesman concedes that the U.S.-led security forces around polling sites made it impossible for militants to carry out their threats. Lately there have been signs that many Taliban and their supporters may be losing their zeal for war. From his Kabul jail cell, Mujahed says he has had enough fighting. "Let others do the jihad," he says. "Me, I'm exhausted." If Pakistan really started to do all it could to crack down on the Taliban, it might find that fatigue among those battle-weary warriors would finish off the job. Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Nov 23 2004, 10:47 AM
Why Pakistan still isn't aggressively pursuing the ex — Taliban leaders living inside the country
Well, they need them for IRAN, a new play ground for Daddy and stooges.
Posted by: Naresh Nov 24 2004, 07:27 AM
Mudy, As promised here is Prof. Mian Ijaz Ul Hassan latest Article. My answer - to his Article on 17-11-2004 to him - are in bold : I must admit that it is often not easy to get the substance of a thought across as easily it is presumed. ‘Talking’ in this instance is like wading through a stream in spate. In his present mood he is given to glossing over (on some occasions misconstruing) the text that makes the slightest dent in his contentions I am beneficiary of another response from Captain Nresh Wadhera to one of my articles (Divali Mubarak, Daily Times, November 17) that needs to be shared with the reader. Captain Wadhera has rather inflexible views and seems not to reflect, even ponder over what I have aired in my recent articles on Indo-Pak issues. I must admit that it is often not easy to get the substance of a thought across as easily it is presumed. ‘Talking’ to Captain Wadhera is like wading through a stream in spate. In his present mood he is given to glossing over (on some occasions misconstruing) the text of the article that makes the slightest dent in his contentions. Some of the points answered “ point-by-point” by Captain Wadhera to the last article are being reproduced. Here goes: “The harsh lesson of history is that in order to proceed on to the future a person has to come to terms with the present and cease living in the past. If a Lahori like myself wishes to read a poem that has been written in Ludhiana he must acquaint himself with the Deonagri script.” Learning the Devnagri Script is your personal option and is not being enforced upon you. You must appreciate that if I want to read a poem written in Lahore I will also have to acquaint myself with the Urdu — sorry the Persian script. I thought that is what is said. “Whereas the army reports to the parliament in India, in Pakistan the parliament reports to the generals. Please bear with me when I expect the Indian parliament to play a more peoples-friendly role than ours. It is ironical, however, that India should maintain a diplomatic reserve when General Musharraf, who represents a constituency that has been traditionally jingoistic, is outspoken about settling issues with its traditionally-feared enemy. The Indian PM’s directive to reduce the presence of soldiers in the Kashmir Valley is a positive move. It seems that whereas my friend Captain Wadhera living in Surrey turned a deaf ear to my pleas, Shri Manmohan Singh has readily lent me his.” Bhai Ji, it is surely not difficult for you to understand that a democratic form of government cannot go on making concessions to a dictator who has already unilaterally attacked the democratic country. As you are aware Indian troops are usually reduced in numbers in Jammu and Kashmir as the instances of cross-border terrorism and cross-border terrorist infiltration go down in winter. One can also attribute the reduction in cross-border terrorism and cross-border terrorist infiltration to Pakistani president reining in and controlling [the terrorists]. Come spring, the instance of cross-border terrorism will increase and so will the Indian troops. That is indeed heartening. As such, the reduction of Indian troops in Kashmir is directly attributable to the “reining in, controlling and reducing” of cross-border terrorism and cross-border terrorist infiltration and thus President Musharraf deserves your thanks as it is he who has lent his ears to your pleas. Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh’s gesture is the “effect” but President Musharraf’s act is the “cause”. I hope that you are conversant with the cause-effect theory. It is wrong to say that India is Pakistan’s “traditionally-feared enemy”. It is Pakistan that has attacked India — Jammu & Kashmir in 1947, Rann of Kutchh and again Jammu & Kashmir in 1965 and now Kargil in 1998. In addition, it was Pakistan that attacked India initially in 1971 but I will accept this as an extension of the Bangladesh War. “I am convinced that there is neither any danger of China invading India nor of India attacking Pakistan. It has become imperative for us to overcome our irrational fears and strengthen mutual understanding for reaping larger economic benefits and political goals... So let’s just do it.” If India does not need to have a huge armed forces capability as there is no danger of China invading her — while China’s annual defence forces budget is around $55-60 billion and India’s annual defence budget of $20 billion is only a third that of China where as India’s economy is half that of China — I see no reason why Pakistan should have half of India’s defence forces strength when Pakistan’s economy is about a sixth of India. Especially, since you are convinced that India will not attack Pakistan. Again Bhai Ji one can be what one likes to be or is, but that does not preclude one from rational reasoning. As I have stated above, Pakistan has attacked India thrice and I shall wait for the next Pakistani attack. I MAY BE SURPRISED IF THERE ISN’T ONE ALREADY ON THE CARDS. “Urdu has been so Persianised and Punjabi so Urduised. Both countries have played havoc with a common lingua franca. We in Pakistan have ‘Islamised’ the Urdu language using Persian and Arabic and you — I don’t mean you personally — have dove tailed so many Sanskrit words in Urdu/Hindi that even common Indians cannot understand it. Languages cannot be invented by academics. Why muddy clear tongues in common use with obscurity?” I have no objection to Pakistan having Islamised Urdu. The word ‘Urdu’ is a Turkish word which, I believe, means camp/camp-follower. As for removing the Sanskrit content — if any — and using more and more Persian and Arabic words, I can have no objection as I am not from Pakistan and “Pakistani languages” are Pakistan’s business. It does not affect me at all. “Being a Lahori, I consider it a great misfortune that I cannot read Punjabi written across the river Beas in the Deonagri script. Fortunately, I can read the Adi Garanth that was inscribed in the Persian script.” Bhai Ji, it does not matter to me what script is used. It is the prerogative of the Sikhs and Hindu Punjabis of India to read Punjabi in Hindi or Gurumukhi script. I am honoured indeed at your “acquaintance” with the Adi Granth in Persian script. I am surprised that you overlook the fact that Adi Granth (soft D in Adi) is a term composed of two Sanskrit words. As such one could “opine” that the Adi Granth was also written in Sanskrit or Punjabi (Western Hindi) using the Devnagri script but it is quite possible that these sersions written in the Devnagri script were destroyed along with the temples or ashrams or Gurudwaras where these “religious scriptures” were destroyed by the invaders-rulers. One must appreciate that if the Adi Granth was originally written in Persian that it would have a Persian title and not a Sanskrit title.” Please note that it was not written in Persian, but in Persian script. “Every generation inherits the past and has to deal with the errors and misfortunes of its ancestors. If a Lahori like myself wishes to read a poem that has been written in Ludhiana he must acquaint himself with the Deonagri script. If my friends from Amritsar wish to easily find their way around Lahore they have to learn to recognise Alif and Bay.” I do regret to note your “typical Punjabi Pakistani” penchant for trying to enforce Urdu on all and sundry which is most unfair. This penchant for imposing Urdu — not an original language but an outcome of exchanges between Turkic, Arabic and Persian, possibly with some words from Sanskrit and Hindi — is one of the prime reasons that led to the dismemberment of Pakistan whereby East Pakistan separated and became Bangladesh. Is your enforcing of Urdu on us Indians a “guise” to dismember India? No one is enforcing Urdu on any one. What is resented is that Punjabi should be artificially Urduised, Urdu Persianised or Hindi Sanskritised. “Why muddy clean tongues with obscurity.” Wadhera Ji, tusse dosti naen karni nan karo, laro te nan. Try spitting out the anger. Prof Ijaz Ul Hassan is a painter, author and political activist P. S. The actual reply has been edited-altered to a small extent.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 24 2004, 09:35 AM
Capt Naresh , Welcome to IF. Thanks for making a mincemeat out of this idiot's blabber. I specially liked the Adi Granth piece.. thumbup.gif Regards..
Posted by: Mudy Nov 24 2004, 11:37 AM
Capt. Naresh it is interesting to read, Prof Hassan still thinks they are not tricked by Indians by offering troops reduction proposal. It was my understanding; Urdu was developed by upper caste Hindus to communicate with Mughal courts.
Posted by: Naresh Nov 26 2004, 10:10 AM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Nov 24 2004, 10:05 PM)
Capt Naresh , Welcome to IF. Thanks for making a mincemeat out of this idiot's blabber. I specially liked the Adi Granth piece.. thumbup.gif Regards..
rajesh_g, I am new to this Forum and I do believe in a dialogue. Various Senior Members of this Esteemed Forum have also requested Professor Mian Ijaz Ul Hassan to join our Forum and Discusses India-Pakistan Relationship. As such I would request you to extend the usual Indian-Hindu courtsey and hospitality to Professor Mina Ijaz Ul Hassan. I thank you in anticipation.
Posted by: Naresh Nov 26 2004, 10:23 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Nov 25 2004, 12:07 AM)
Capt. Naresh it is interesting to read, Prof Hassan still thinks they are not tricked by Indians by offering troops reduction proposal. It was my understanding; Urdu was developed by upper caste Hindus to communicate with Mughal courts.
Mudy, As I understand it URDU is a Turkic-Turkish word meaning Camp-Camp Members. The Islamic Invaders into India may have possibly comprised of Turkic, Persian and Arabic members. As such a ”Camp” Language was evolved which also took in Hindi-Sanskrit content as the Camp Members had to communicate with the “Camp Followers” whereby the “workable Urdu” comprised of Persian, Arabic, Turkic, Hindi and thereby Sanskrit content. Eventually it may have developed into a “Lingua Franca” and even became the Language of communications for Administration and Commerce.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 26 2004, 08:07 PM
Wednesday November 24, 7:10 PM 27 Pak Hindus migrate to Jalandhar, adjoining areas Jalandhar, Nov.24 (ANI): As many as 200 Pakistani Hindus have migrated to Jalandhar and its adjoining areas allegedly due to religious persecution in their country. Around 27 of them have reportedly come without proper visas, which the Punjab police say, are under investigation. The migrants say that they were ill treated there and have more freedom here as compared to Pakistan. They also claim that they were not able to carry out their religious rituals freely in Pakistan. "There is more freedom here. There were no temples, gurdwara's near our place. There was no freedom. Everybody in our family has shifted here, now all my relatives are here and we have much freedom here as compared to that place in Pakistan",said Silver Devi, a migrant from Pakistan. The migrants save their families by working as a vegetable seller or by stiching clothes for people or even being a scrap dealer. They are living in deplorable conditions here but they say that atleast they have the freedom to carry out whatever they want. "Now that we have come here, we are not going to go back to Pakistan no matter what. But there is the problem of citizenship here. It is very difficult for us to get the visa",said Simar Khan, another migrant. Notably during an earlier round of migration, many Pakistani Hindus settled in Jalandhar in 1980. Most of them were granted citizenship then. "In 1980 also some Hindu families migrated to India. The reason for their migration is believed to be their love for their motherland and their own people. Till now we don't have any problem with them. There are no complaints of their being involved in any kind of crime so its ok for us",said G P S Bhullar, the Senior Superintendant of Police of Jalandhar. All the Hindu migrants have the same story of discrimination to tell. Though the migrants are suffering because they do not have any work and no visa which would help them in getting the citizenship of India, they are determined to not to go back to Pakistan. (ANI)
Posted by: Naresh Nov 27 2004, 07:59 AM Indian Companies wanting to do business with Pakistan-Pakistani would do well to read in details the shenanigans of the Pakistani Government and Trading companies in the rejection of Australian Wheat on the Trumped Charge of the Wheat Cargo being infected by “Karnal Bunt”. The Four Shipments of Australian Wheat Rejected by Pakistan were then sold to Sri Lanka, Malaysia or Indonesia and I think UAE. Doing Business with Pakistan in haste will ensure the Indian Business Community suffering at Leisure. Fools do not learn from their Mistakes Normal People learn by their Mistakes It is smarter to learn from other People’s Mistakes
Posted by: Naresh Nov 27 2004, 08:04 AM
user posted image The Pakistani Cartoonist has summed up the situation well. Why is it that Pakistanis want a Rail Link at Khokhrapar? Why is it that there are no Indians waiting for the “Khokhrapar-Munabao” Link?
Posted by: Mudy Nov 27 2004, 10:41 AM Bin Laden not hiding there, general says Time to ask where is OBL? He is not dead.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 27 2004, 10:43 AM
The Pakistani Cartoonist has summed up the situation well. Why is it that Pakistanis want a Rail Link at Khokhrapar? Why is it that there are no Indians waiting for the “Khokhrapar-Munabao” Link?
It is sad, Indian political jokers have no vision except they want to speedup India's decay.
Posted by: rajesh_g Nov 27 2004, 12:31 PM
QUOTE (Naresh @ Nov 26 2004, 10:10 AM)
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Nov 24 2004, 10:05 PM)
Capt Naresh , Welcome to IF. Thanks for making a mincemeat out of this idiot's blabber. I specially liked the Adi Granth piece.. thumbup.gif Regards..
rajesh_g, I am new to this Forum and I do believe in a dialogue. Various Senior Members of this Esteemed Forum have also requested Professor Mian Ijaz Ul Hassan to join our Forum and Discusses India-Pakistan Relationship. As such I would request you to extend the usual Indian-Hindu courtsey and hospitality to Professor Mina Ijaz Ul Hassan. I thank you in anticipation.
Capt Naresh, I apologize. Please continue.
Posted by: Mudy Nov 27 2004, 02:35 PM by B.Raman
. What then are the options before India? Keep up the psychological pressure on Pakistan for the grant of the MFN status. Heavens have not fallen as a result of Pakistan not granting the status so far. Heavens would not shine on India, if it does. But it is a psychological weapon which India has for projecting Pakistan to the international community as an unreasonable power. Intensify the interactions with those sections of the Pakistani business community which are in favour of an early normalisation of the economic relations in order to step up pressure on Islamabad from its own business class. Keep the talks going on the pipeline issue without any illusions regarding its early and smooth implementation. Identify other areas of co-operation which could be projected to Pakistan as stand-alone areas. In one of his statements in India, Mr.Aziz has been quoted as referring to co-operation in the field of agriculture between Indian and Pakistani Punjabs as another possible stand-alone area which Pakistan would be prepared to take up without linking it to the Kashmir issue. Pakistan's agriculture has not been doing as well as that of India, forcing it to import wheat periodically. This is an area which needs to be explored intensively.
Why he want business relations with Pakistan? It is an open invitation to mullah to spead terrorism in India.
Posted by: Naresh Nov 28 2004, 08:01 AM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Nov 28 2004, 01:01 AM)
Capt Naresh, I apologize. Please continue.
rajesh_g, Many thanks. You are not only an Officer but also a Gentleman. P.S. : No Titles needed good Sir. Naresh will do
Posted by: Naresh Nov 28 2004, 08:21 AM A straightforward reading of the evidence would suggest that subsequent events have proved Mr Jinnah wrong. India, with a much more heterogeneous polity, has made a democratic system work and fared relatively better under it while a much more homogeneous Pakistan has had a very traumatic and troubled existence Seeing that I have been writing on democracy, a reader has directed my attention to a speech by Mr Jinnah delivered at the Aligarh Muslim University Union on March 6, 1940. There is one particular passage in this speech that literally jumps out at the reader. It proceeds as follows: “Two years ago at Simla I said that the democratic parliamentary system of government was unsuited to India. I was condemned everywhere in the Congress press. I was told that I was guilty of disservice to Islam because Islam believes in democracy. So far as I have understood Islam, it does not advocate a democracy which would allow the majority of non-Muslims to decide the fate of the Muslims. We cannot accept a system of government in which the non-Muslims merely by numerical majority would rule and dominate us.” And it continues: “Then, generally speaking, democracy has different patterns even in different countries of the West. Therefore, naturally I have reached the conclusion that in India where conditions are entirely different from those of the Western countries, the British party system of government and the so-called democracy are absolutely unsuitable.” It was in another article published in the Time and Tide of London only a few days later, on March 9, 1940, that Mr Jinnah elaborated the reasons he felt democracy was infeasible in India: “Democratic systems based on the concept of a homogeneous nation such as England are very definitely not applicable to heterogeneous countries such as India and this simple fact is the root cause of all of India’s constitutional ills.” Mr Jinnah was quite well aware of the alternative argument for he continued: “Even as Under-Secretary of State for India, the late Lt-Col Muirhead failed to appreciate this fact, for, deploring the present communal tension, he expressed the opinion that the tendency on the part of both those in power and those in opposition was to consider that what the position now was would be the position always. He deplored the failure of Indians to appreciate an essential feature of democratic government — namely, the majority and minority are never permanent, and he, therefore, felt that the minorities’ (sic) opposition to Federation on the assumption that from the outset power would be in the hands of an irremovable majority was untenable.” Mr Jinnah was not swayed by this argument. “But he [Muirhead] forgot that the whole concept of democracy postulates a single people, however much divided economically.” Based on this reasoning Mr Jinnah concluded that “Western democracy is totally unsuited for India and its imposition on India is the disease in the body politic.” Having described the disease, Mr Jinnah posed the question: “What is the remedy?” And he answered it as follows: (1) “The British people must realise that unqualified Western democracy is totally unsuited for India and attempts to impose it must cease.” (2) “In India, it must be accepted that ‘party’ government is not suitable and all governments — central or provincial — must be governments that represent all sections of the people.” Mr Jinnah added: “While the Muslim League stands for a Free India, it is irrevocably opposed to any Federal objective which must necessarily result in a majority community rule, under the guise of democracy and a parliamentary system of government.” The article concluded: “a constitution must be evolved that recognises that there are in India two nations, who both must share the governance of their common motherland.” These extended quotes are necessary to set the stage for a discussion of what Mr Jinnah might have meant and why he saw the situation in this particular way. Three issues seem to be of prime importance. First, what is the kind of democracy that is advocated by Islam and, by the logic of the argument presented, under what conditions could a Muslim minority accept to live under a democratic system of governance? Second, is it correct that democratic systems are based on the concept of a homogeneous nation and are not applicable in countries with heterogeneous communities? And third, in a country with heterogeneous communities, what would be the constitutional arrangement and the nature of government that would be able to represent all sections of the people? I do not intend to rush to judgment on these questions because I am far from being an expert on either Islam or on Jinnah. But these are critically important questions for anyone trying to understand the history and the dynamic of democratic governance in South Asia. And because such an understanding is crucial for our future welfare we must not shy away from getting to grips with difficult and emotional issues. A straightforward reading of the evidence would suggest that subsequent events have proved Mr Jinnah wrong. India, with a much more heterogeneous polity, has made a democratic system work and fared relatively better under it while a much more homogeneous Pakistan has had a very traumatic and troubled existence. But is there a more complex reality that we have to unearth to make sense of this historical record? I invite readers to contribute their views so that we may sift the evidence and make our way towards a reasoned and hopefully unbiased conclusion. The two texts quoted in this article can be found on pages 469-479 of Mr Jinnah’s Speeches and Statements (March 1935-March 1940), edited by Waheed Ahmad, Quaid-e-Azam Academy, Karachi, 1992 Email: I think members of the Forum should discuss the matter with Mr. Altaf and he should be requested to join this Forum.
Posted by: Naresh Nov 29 2004, 07:09 AM The above news item brings the following to mind : Pakistan President General Pervez Musharraf has fled his country and has sought asylum in Chile. The desperate action came after Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz resigned. United States President George W Bush has announced that American troops have landed at Karachi airport and would take control of the situation shortly, to prevent rioting and bloodshed. Pakistan’s neighbor India said it would not intervene, but would not mind sending its troops to patrol the country, if asked to by the US. In Chile, Musharraf said he had fled ‘my beloved country’ after a man flashed a Swiss knife at him, at a public meeting. ‘I feared for my life,’ he admitted. On why he chose Chile, Musharraf laughed and said, ‘Everybody has the impression that it is hot in Chile, as they associate the country’s name with pungent chillies. In fact, it’s a cool place. It’s quite chilly here.’ The general said he had no intention stage a military coup in Chile. Initial reports on had stated that Musharraf had staged a coup in Chile. In Washington, Bush said he would fly down to Chile to convince Musharraf to return to Pakistan, as the country needed him very badly. Meanwhile, unconfirmed reports coming in said former Indian prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee would be approached to be Pakistan’s new president-cum-prime minister.
Posted by: k.ram Nov 29 2004, 07:27 AM
US ; Madarsahs in Pak are hatcheries for jihad: Report 4 Hour,1 minutes Ago US News, Washington, Despite various claims made by Pakistan, the schools in Pakistan are acting as 'incubators for violent extremism' claims a report. The Daily Times quoted a report in the Chicago Tribune as saying that notwithstanding claims to the contrary, Pakistan government has done very little to reform either the madarsahs or the "failed public schools" in the country. "Terrorists can be defeated in Iraq and Afghanistan, but if nothing is done to end the intolerance and the teaching of hard- line Islam in classrooms, militants will have a never-ending supply of new recruits. Nowhere is this more evident than in Pakistan, whose schools were described as 'incubators for violent extremism' by the Sept. 11 commission," the report was quoted as saying. The report further cites the example of one of the religious schools Darul Uloom Haqqania or the "University of Jihad", where the Maulana not only glorified jihad and terror mastermind Osama bin Laden but also refuted all suggestions of government reforming the system of education being imparted at such schools. "Maulana Samiul Haq still preaches the same anti-American rhetoric and praises al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar. The Maulana, who never fails to deliver what he believes he is expected to say, said Osama is a brave and courageous man. The e Taliban restored law and order, respected human rights, respected women's rights and completely eliminated heroin and drug use. As for government reform of the madrassa, We will remain here no matter what," the report added. The report further states that Darul Uloom Haqqania was not an isolated instance. Even public schools in Karachi are glorifying jihad, and students are even thinking of taking up jihad as a professional career. "Children as young as 5th graders still learn about the glories of jihad and martyrdom in textbooks the government approves. One 9th-grade student told them that he dreamed of going to fight in a jihad when he grows up, if he could get his mother's blessing," the report stated. The report further cautions that madrassas, which act as "secretive religious schools" are controlled by politically powerful clerics who advocate conservative Islam, coupled with religious intolerance, and in the present scenario if nothing concrete is done in this regard, the consequences will be disastrous in the long term. Even books teaching mathematics and English were not only espousing the cause of jihad but also imparting "violent lessons" targeting Hindus, with students fully under the influence of religous intolerance with an equal enthusiasm to wage jihad against America. In one case, an entire chapter in at least one textbook was devoted to jihad and "read like a lesson on jihad from the literature of banned militant groups." Educational experts say that even the public education system in Pakistan in "a mess," with some state-funded schools existing only on paper. "As a result, students have suffered. The literacy rate for adults is 41.5 percent. The state maintains iron-fisted control over every aspect of the public school system from curricula to key jobs. Critics say the lessons promote the goals of a government highly influenced by the military: Recent public school curricula instructed educators to teach that fighting India is a religious duty and that the Kashmir dispute is legitimate," the report adds. "If you look at Pakistan's educational system, it encourages you to fight in jihad. It glorifies the military. It imbibes the student with the philosophy of martyrdom and jihad. The new head of the Education Ministry is a former leader of the Inter- Services Intelligence, the feared intelligence agency in Pakistan that maintains strong ties to militant clerics. He has no experience in education," the report quoted an educational expert AH Nayyar as saying. (ANI)
Posted by: Viren Nov 29 2004, 12:15 PM
Pakistan is shown as an island in the Arabian Sea,...
laugh.gif Seems like the BR SNS news service is paying dividends. Just a matter of time before this island goest Westwards Ho!
Posted by: Mudy Nov 30 2004, 08:39 AM
Mushy will submit his six monthly reports on Friday to US President Bush in Washington DC. From reliable sources his hourly rate will remain same. After 3 years of services he is now entitled to Bonus, Bonus will be in form of Chicken, stuffing, stocking stuffing, F16 toys etc. Loss of overtime due to new law will compensated by one free travel to Boston with one companion, no restrictions applied.,00050002.htm
Posted by: Naresh Nov 30 2004, 09:00 AM On a platform, a train was ready to depart and the passengers were rushing towards their compartments. A blind man was standing on the platform asking every passerby to help him board the train engine but nobody listened to his hue and cry. Then came a man who was willing to help the blind man but he asked him why the hell he wanted to board the engine when every one was getting into the compartments. The blind man replied, “Because I am the engine driver”. This is the true story of Pakistan’s train. This train, when it was put on the track for the first time, had a direction because of its visionary driver, the Quaid-e-Azam. But after just one year, the train was put on the rails. From Ghulam Mohammad to Iskander Mirza, many piranha-like people came and ate up everything. And when the passengers tried to put up a united struggle against them, they handed over the train to a similarly ill-equipped driver who spent ten long years going on about green revolutions, economic prosperity, basic democracy and every thing on earth, and declared himself a field marshal without even fighting a battle. Then appeared another wise and visionary man, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, who was fed up with the status quo and had a desire to revolutionize the whole nation and aimed to bring prosperity to the general masses by making them partners in running the affairs of the state. He left the cabinet of the defeated field marshal Ayub Khan and, on November 30, 1967, called a convention of democracy-loving political workers in Lahore, where they discussed the political and social situation of the country and decided to form a political party which could struggle for the rights of the people; could provide support to all nations struggling against imperialism and fighting for their national freedom; could strive for introducing socialist economy in the country; could help people to uphold their religious beliefs in accordance with the spirit of Islam; and which could lead the masses to achieve the goal of getting back their power, which was snatched away by the looters and plunderers mentioned above. On December 1, 1967, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto announced the establishment of a revolutionary political party named the Pakistan Peoples’ Party. Within six months of the establishment of the Pakistan Peoples Party, thousands of people from all segments of society, came out on the roads under the charismatic leadership of Zulfikar All Bhutto and a mass movement engulfed the whole country, resulting in Bhutto’s arrest on ridiculous charges. When the khaki-civil establishment and the feudals realised that the situation was running out of their control and the country was on the threshold of a total revolution, it removed its field marshal and placed another blind driver to drive the train on the rail tracks leading towards a head-on collision. A total civil war broke out followed by another futile war with India, and we saw East Pakistan turn into Bangladesh. Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was requested to take over as he was the only one who could keep the remaining part of the country united and not only rebuild it but also rejuvenate the armed forces. And this is what he did in his five years tenure. He introduced basic reforms in all the sectors in the first year of his government and in the second year, he not only gave a constitution to this country but also brought back 93,000 prisoners of war and got back five thousand sq. miles in Kashmir captured by India. Next year, he held an Islamic summit conference in Lahore to strengthen the Muslim bloc against imperialism. In 1975, he led Pakistan into the nuclear era by setting up a nuclear reprocessing plant at Kahuta, which infuriated the imperialist powers and their local stooges. A movement was launched against him by bigoted, narrow-minded fanatics and undemocratic political parties in connivance with the Americanized generals. This movement was financially supported by the American establishment and its allies elsewhere. Finally, the Bhutto government was toppled by the third blind driver, who took the train into the den of martial law. Not only that, the martial law regime murdered him through a sham judicial process. The third martial law administrator gave away a large chunk of land in Siachen to India. He fought a proxy war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and consequently made his generals millionaires, whilst introducing kalashnikov and heroin culture in Pakistan. The crisis that we are passing through today in South Waziristan and the Northern Areas is the outcome of the policy General Zia formulated vis-a-vis Afghanistan. When the Soviet Union pulled out its troops from Afghanistan, General Zia was cut to size by his foreign masters and was finally blasted in the air. During his eleven year draconian regime, the workers of the Pakistan Peoples’ Party put up a heroic struggle against the military dictatorship under the dynamic leadership of Begum Nusrat Bhutto and Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto. Thousands of workers were arrested and were kept in jails, the Lahore fort and other torture cells for years. Hundreds of them were flogged and hundreds of them went into exile. Many of them sacrificed their lives. There houses were destroyed and their families were uprooted. Many were hanged for their active resistance against the military rule. Even the women were not spared and were tortured. This was a historic struggle and has no match in the recent human history. After this came the semi civil rule. Pakistan Peoples’ Party came into power after winning the 1988 elections and Benazir Bhutto became the prime minister. Since she was not acceptable to the establishment, her government was toppled and the assemblies were dissolved. For the 1990 elections, the IJI was formed by the ISI to keep the Pakistan Peoples’ Party away from power. The fully aided IJI was brought in and Nawaz Sharif, the then blue eyed boy of the establishment, became the prime minister. In 1993, the assemblies were again dissolved and new elections were held. The PPP emerged as the largest party and Benazir Bhutto was reluctantly accepted as the prime minister but was again thrown out and vicious propaganda against her and her spouse Asif Ali Zardari was initiated. In the 1997 elections, Nawaz Sharif was again brought in as his party was awarded a two-thirds majority. However, he was thrown out after three years due to his tussle with the COAS, General Pervaiz Musharraf, on the Kargil issue. Nawaz Sharif had started showing his muscles, which was not acceptable to the establishment. More than twenty frivolous cases were initiated against Asif Ali Zardari, who was arrested on the day the Benazir government was toppled and remained in jail till November 22, 2004, when he was released after the apex court granted him bail in the last case. After the removal of Nawaz Sharif, the fourth blind driver took over the control of the engine and drove the train into a tunnel having no light at the end. The balance of payments has turned negative and will remain so in coming years. The present foreign exchange reserves have gone down rapidly while India’s reserves are going upward. Pak rupee value is under great pressure. Tax system is still based on exploitation. New taxes are being levied. The surcharge to be paid after the due dates of paying bills has been levied as general sales tax. Incidents of terrorism have gone out of control. Four attempts were made on the life of General Pervez Musharraf. The present prime minister accidentally remained unhurt in a suicidal attack. South Waziristan is bleeding. Baluchistan is being made a target. Target killings have become a part of our daily life. Mass killings in mosques, Imam Bargahs and other religious places are a routine now. Dacoities, bank robberies, kidnappings for ransom are no more news. Pakistan has been isolated in the world community and India is gaining popularity. All of this indicates the intensity of the crisis we, as a nation, are passing through. So this is high time that the people of Pakistan take cognizance of the situation. We all know that such crises cannot be averted and terrorist activities cannot be controlled by the use of brute force. This can only be possible through a meaningful dialogue between the rulers and the democratic political forces. But for a meaningful dialogue, a congenial atmosphere is the pre-condition and to create a situation which can lead to a possible solution, the following measures must be taken: 1) General Pervaiz Musharraf should withdraw the 17th amendment to the constitution and should shed off his uniform before the end of December 2004. 2) The assemblies should be dissolved and new general elections should be announced to be held in the first quarter of 2005. 3) Benazir Bhutto’s safe return should be guaranteed. 4) The regime should not interfere in the legal proceedings of fabricated cases against Benazir Bhutto. If these measures are taken prior to a meaningful dialogue, the crisis can be averted. With regard to the PPP, its struggle is a continuing process, whether it remains in opposition or in government. It had to pledge on its 38th foundation day to stream line it’s continuous struggle for the restoration of the 1973 constitution; for the security of life, liberty, honour and prosperity of the citizens; for establishing the first right of the people on national resources; for not surrendering the just stand of Pakistan on Kashmir and on other national issues; for restoration of the legal and economic rights of workers and peasants; for the increase in wages; for providing a residential plot to every family on ownership basis; for providing free education up to matric to all children; for bringing down the utility prices and for the elimination of the middleman.
Posted by: k.ram Nov 30 2004, 07:57 PM
Posted by: Reggie Nov 30 2004, 08:44 PM
Pak jihadis impart lessons to specifically target Hindus -,~jihadis~in~Pakistan~are~now~imparting~ and Ostrich Indians sing the bhajan of Indians, Pakistanis are like brothers: Naidu Lahore: Former Andhra Pradesh Chief Minister and leader of the Telugu Desam Party, Chandrababu Naidu, has said that Indians and Pakistanis are like brothers.'Indians,~Pakistanis~are~like~brothers' Wish there was a icon for "Stupid Indians!"
Posted by: Naresh Dec 1 2004, 05:03 AM
Reggie, The link for the Indian Express Article doesn’t work so here is the correct link : Naidu has to cater to his Muslim minority in Hyderabad and as such he must pay the "bend down tributes"
Posted by: Naresh Dec 1 2004, 05:39 AM
The gravity of the education crisis is indeed mind-boggling. If one were to only identify the problems that need to be addressed in this area, the list would be unending. It includes the standard of pedagogy and the quality of curricula and textbooks.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 2 2004, 05:18 AM Even blundering old Jamali would have handled the situation better than the suave and smooth Great Economist. Know why? First, because Jamali is a political person who knows how to interact with people of different hues; and second, he at least had his seat in the National Assembly that was his own Well, what do you expect when you have a nobody as your ‘prime minister’; when everybody says whatever gets into their heads at any given time; when friends of the government can get away with anything at all; when the left hand of the government doesn’t know what the right is doing; and when the matter most exercising the big General’s mind is how to stay on in absolute power. From the embarrassment that is Great Economist Shaukat Aziz to the seeming debacle in Wana to Pir Altaf Hussain of Karachi taking aim at the country’s very heart, we blunder along aimlessly. For someone who spoke down about the so-called prime minister Zafarullah Jamali, referring to him as “poor Mr Jamali”, I must say I have had to eat crow inside of six months of his departure from the PM’s House. I mean, look at how Great Economist Shaukat Aziz is conducting himself as ‘prime minister’ and you will know what I mean. Pathetic is not the word. Mayhap ‘pitiable’ even ‘wretched’ describes it better. Take even the most inane, the simplest, matter and the man proves he is but a mouthpiece, a puppet which mouths what the ventriloquist wants him to, nothing more, nothing less. His exchange with Sonal Mansingh who is known to be India’s “most accomplished dancer” as reported in Dawn (October 29, 2004) is a case in point. When Ms Mansingh was introduced to Aziz she asked him when he was inviting her to dance in Pakistan. In answer, the Great Economist turned to our high commissioner to India, the pleasant and gifted Aziz Ahmed Khan and said, “That’s his department”! What, pray, is an ambassador’s “department” when a request to visit a country by a celebrated foreign artiste is made to that country’s prime minister? To cause the issuance of a visa to that artiste, that is all. After a proper invitation has been extended to the artiste by the host country; after all the necessary arrangements have been made for his, or in this case her, performances. The ambassador has no other “department” in any of this in the presence of the prime minister. The only thing Aziz could have said when faced with this unscripted situation which apparently bowled him over, was to say to Ms Mansingh she was most welcome to come whenever she pleased; that she should have come to Pakistan much earlier. He should then have quietly instructed the culture wallahs to get on with the matter. Quietly, because in case the ‘agencies’ concerned rapped him across the knuckles for getting too big for his Ferragamos and inviting an Indian who was a dancer (horrors) to boot, he could (quietly) have instructed the FO not to issue her a visa. Not too difficult, eh? Even blundering old Jamali would have handled the situation better than the suave and smooth Great Economist. Know why? First, because Jamali is a political person who knows how to interact with people of different hues; and second, he at least had his seat in the National Assembly that was his own, and which was not loaned to him by a kinsman, nay leading member of the House of Zahoor, Gujrat City. The Great Economist is not our only problem: see what the Pir of Karachi, Altaf Bhai Sahib said about Pakistan the other day while on a visit to India. As somebody has said already, there wasn’t even a squeak (I would call it squeal) out of anybody in government, not even the ubiquitous “spokesman”. If a politician had said a tenth as much to the Indians, say: “Keep your borders open for those who want to return to India” he or she would have been strung up by the nearest electric pole. Leave politicians aside for a moment for they might have enemies who wish to get even with them: look at what happened to Najam Sethi, my editor, at the time that the two dolts held the Punjab and the Centre by the throat and Mushahid ‘Mandela’ Hussain was the information minister. Najam was kidnapped in the dead of night from his bedroom; his wife Jugnu was struck to the ground in the presence of their children. Najam was held incommunicado for weeks on end. And what did he say in India that got him this treatment? Nothing that could even be misconstrued to be even vaguely anti-Pakistan. Not a hair turned on this government’s fair head in the instant case, however, because Pir Sahib is once again the darling of the Establishment, an Establishment which in the name and quite ugly shape of the tyrant Zia first begot him and his party. Indeed, it seems his party celebrates what he has said, for there were huge banners displayed in Islamabad the Beautiful — the home of every ‘agency’ under the Pakistani sun, please note — extolling his greatly successful visit to India. And, Wana. By God, what a mess has been made of it. The ineptness and incompetence exhibited by the government is not only visible in matters purely military, it extends to the whole gamut of whatever is happening there. The latest, of course, is the announcement by the all-seeing, all-hearing Corps Commander and the Governor Bahadur of the Frontier that all forces are being withdrawn; fast on the heels of which came one of those ISPR ‘clarifications’ that that was not the case; fast on the heels of which came the news story filed by Mr Khalid Hasan of this newspaper that the US State Department says this is not the case at all! I mean how much more foolish will our country and we look before somebody starts to do the right thing? Before somebody takes cognisance of those who embarrass the country and its hapless people by their inefficiency and lackadaisical attitudes? In the end, to a heart-rending letter (Daily Times, November 29, 2004) from young Hina Khalid, a brilliant student who wanted to study medicine but could not, because none of our country’s medical schools are equipped to handle special people like her: Hina had the great misfortune of becoming paralysed from the waist down six years ago. Whilst her letter brought tears of sadness and great regret to my eyes for the horrors this innocent but very courageous child just embarking upon life is condemned to face, and whilst blind, raging anger welled up within me, I could not help but bless her former school, Beaconhouse for doing everything to help her. To Beaconhouse, a great big thank you from the bottom of my heart. But what, please, are the “good governance” chappies doing about people like Hina? They don’t give a damn, do they? They are too busy doing their own thing, aren’t they? More than that we are generally a cruel and an unfeeling lot, aren’t we? Look at the way our society treats those who are physically disadvantaged, even those who are blind? “Oye, annay” is an oft-heard shout when a blind person walks past some urchins. “Oye, langray” when a lame person happens along. The government can help change these attitudes, however, by implementing what Hina has said in her letter and integrating the handicapped into society. It can start by insisting that all schools become disabled-friendly by a certain date, which in most cases will consist only of providing ramps and equipping toilets with hand-rails. The rest can follow. For starters, and as an indicator that it will recognise and show its appreciation to those schools that make themselves disabled-friendly the government should immediately award Beaconhouse for the pioneering work it has done. I hope General Ashraf Qazi is listening. Kamran Shafi is a freelance columnist
Posted by: Naresh Dec 3 2004, 07:07 AM
Posted by: Naresh Dec 3 2004, 07:45 AM ISLAMABAD: The Chinese company which has the contract to construct the Gomal Zam Dam is reluctant to resume work on the project despite the Pakistani government’s assurance to provide maximum security to the Chinese workers, an official source told Daily Times. “The Chinese company ‘China National Water Resources and Hydropower Engineering Corporation’ is dissatisfied with the security arrangements and has suspended work on the dam after the kidnapping and killing of two Chinese engineers and their driver,” said the official source. He said the Chinese company wanted the Pakistani government to do more. The government had also indicated that it could handover all the security arrangements to the army, he added. When contacted Asif Sheikh, spokesman for the Planning and Development Division, said the work on the project had not been stopped altogether. The work was continuing in certain areas at a ‘slow pace’, he said without explaining. “Yes, the Chinese engineers’ kidnapping was an unfortunate incident. However the government and the concerned company are in negotiations and the work will be resumed shortly,” said the spokesman. Pakistan and China enjoyed good relations and the Pakistani government would provide maximum security to the Chinese workers, he added. The official source said the company had completed 13 percent of the physical progress and 11 percent of the financial on the dam located on Gomal River. The company’s reluctance could delay the completion of the project, the spokesman said. Let us see what the Pakistani Terrorist will do to Natural Gas Pipe Line from Iran during and after its construction.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 4 2004, 02:57 PM
Posted by: acharya Dec 4 2004, 04:43 PM
I am a West Pakistani and endorse the above view. It is not wise to disregard geography. Bangladesh and Pakistan are separated by a thousand miles of a country - India - that is hostile to both. It is best that they develop separately but act in unison. But that is easier said than done. How does Bangladesh, for example, use the clout of Pakistan to exert pressure on India not to interfere with the flow of water in the Rivers of Bangladesh when they pass through Indian territory? That is why there are many who are of the view that there should be an overt union of Pakistan and Bangladesh. That may be a dream but this dream must live because it constitutes the best way to exert pressure on India to desist from its efforts to: 1) further break up of Pakistan, 2) to intensify social and economic penetration of Bangladesh. The mere fact that Bangladesh would be welcome back into the fold of Pakistan whenever it wants, multiplies the options of Bangladesh and helps it resist the expansionist embrace of India. Brigadier (retd) Usman Khalid Director London Institute of South Asia
Posted by: acharya Dec 4 2004, 04:46 PM writes: Sindhis in Sindh do not consider themselves Indian, so it is not their lingua franca. Do Punjabi Muslims consider themselves Indians? Dear Dr Gul Agha, ASA. I said Urdu is the lingua franca of MUSLIMS of South Asia; it is certainly not the lingua franca of India or of Hindus. Since partition, the GOI has been trying to purge Hindi of Persian and Arabic words that are seen as the legacy of Muslim rule of India. Hindi is now a different language in vocabularey as well as script. What I have been opposing is language nationalism not any language per se. Pakistan is identified by the faith of its majority, 98 % of who are Muslims. Our polity is Islam and it is the non-Muslims who are recognised and protected as minorities. To adopt a language as touchstone of national identity would be step back for several reasons: 1) All the provinces of Pakistan are multi-lingual, 2) Languages change continuously and can be learnt and unlearnt, 2) we have a higher principle of national solidarity - our common faith - that does not only give us all a common purpose in life (and thus unite us as a nation) but makes us proud members of a universal fraternity of Muslims. Wherver your view, the view of Sindhi Muslims is the same as mine. Sindhi Hindus, however, preach Sindhi solidarity above Islamic solidarity on many Sindhi E Groups and forums. But they do not accept language solidarity above that of Hindu solidarity in India even though India calls itself a secular state and Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. That is why I consider the efforts to introduce a language controversy in Pakistan ' India sposored subversion'. Sincerely Usman Khalid
Posted by: acharya Dec 4 2004, 04:47 PM
Dr. Waheeduddin Ahmed, Milwaukee, Wisconsin After the WW2 the colonial powers had decided that it was not necessary to maintain a colonial presence in these countries for commercial exploitation. They realized that there were many invisible forces, which could perform this task for them. This included the oligarchy, which emerged from the elitist upper middle class and which was carefully nurtured for the purpose. So the colonialists left, leaving a few military bases scattered in the region, which could be used when and if their interests were threatened; and so they were, when Musaddaq nationalized the oil industry in Iran and Nasser nationalized the Suez Canal in Egypt. From then on the politics of oil has pretty much dominated the lives of the people in the Middle East. The interests of the oil consumer became paramount. The government, the culture, the economies and social relations were all subservient to the interests of the consumer, who resided in Europe and America. Now, the world consumption of oil is rising steeply each day with the rising population and the ever increasing number of motor vehicles in the Third World. To ensure the unhindered flow of oil, the constancy of the regimes deemed friendly to the West must be maintained. The nature of the regime is central to the constancy of the oil supply. If the conditions are not favorable, then there must be a regime-change. This is a kind of slavery imposed on the people of the Middle East from outside, a people imprisoned in their own homeland, with their own governments as watchdogs, no slave ships, no chains, no whips, just bondage, which is equally brutal and equally inescapable. This is the overall historical picture my dear friends. Iraq, Iran, even Afghanistan and Palestine fit in this picture: Afghanistan, since it sits at the crossroads of different civilizations and cultures and through which, the future oil pipelines, connecting Central Asia with the rest of the world must run; and Palestine, which must be sacrificed and its flesh thrown to the dogs to keep a constant state of turmoil and instability in the Middle east as a means of nurturing the pro-west regimes. Now, to make matters worse, a new element has entered this unwieldy equation: Christian Evangelism. Christian Evangelists are hate mongers, who make no secret of their intense hatred for Muslims and their prophet. Unlike Jews, who can be pragmatic and practical and are worthy opponents, Christian Evangelists are fanatical, uncompromising and irresponsive to reason. Their Zionism on behalf of the Israelites is unswerving and so dangerous as not to be acceptable to the Jews themselves It is either the greatest misfortune of history or prelude to a disaster of historical proportions that they have an advocate and adherent, who is now the President of the Unites States of America, a country considered to be the greatest military power on earth. It is a boon to the Evangelists that they now have another Constantine in a new Byzantium. In classical times Muslims used to divide the world into two camps: Darul Islam and Darul Harab, Darul Islam for dominions, where Muslims were in political power and Darul Harab, where they were not, but which they would wish to bring under their control. Although this was not by any means a classification based on the Qur'anic principles, it was nevertheless a de-facto classification, as Muslims were the most dominant force in the world.. Today, these terms of reference are invalid and irrelevant, since we do not have a defined domain. If anything, Darul Islam has been converted into Darul Harab and Muslims are fighting street battles in their homelands with non-Muslim invaders. Our relationship with the land in which we live is based on the fact that we chose to come here, with apologies to those of our brothers and sisters, whose predecessors were brought here in chains. We, the immigrant Muslims came here to acquire material benefits from it. With a few exceptions, given a choice, we would chose to remain here and not return to our home countries. To us this land is not Darul Harab but Dar-al-Da'wa. We must practice our way of life and if there is any value in it, we would impart it to others. Two years ago, the Muslims of America entered a period of considerable difficulty and uncertainty. It was a crisis of immeasurable proportions. We endured and God willing we shall prevail. However, if we look back we shall find that at such a crucial time when we needed a leadership with political awareness, knowledge and above all wisdom, we found it lacking. Our leadership was just not up to the task. We went through two general elections, one in 2000 and one in 2004. Our leaders acted amateurishly, childishly and often foolishly. The test of the leadership is that it should come from the grassroots. It should sense the political climate. It should be well-informed, knowledgeable and have its finger on the pulse of the nation. It should have a vision and be capable of seeing the way in darkness. Sadly, it proved that it had none of these. With the delusions of numerical strength, it was obsessed with electioneering. The lack of knowledge of our leaders was so profound that they did not even know in 2000 that the Christian Right was a constituency in America, which made or broke the presidential hopefuls, a constituency, which was at odds with our ideology and with our goals. They did not research the demographics or if they did, their figures were grossly skewed. They considered Jews to be their main and the only enemy. They ignored the sensibilities of the African-American Muslims. So, they had a rude awakening in 2004. In spite of the fact that Muslims, Jews, African-Americans, Hindus and a majority of the Hispanics were on the same side, they lost decisively to the side which, the Christian Right came out in numbers to support. The bottom line is that we do not have the numbers and will not have for at least another decade; and in polarized politics we shall lose. Muslims should not over-indulge in speculations and put all their hopes and energies in presidential politics. They should now pick up the pieces and sincerely begin the task of institutions-building.We have built plenty of mosques. Now let us start building our schools, universities, hospitals, nursing homes, research institutions and sports centers.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 5 2004, 01:16 PM
WASHINGTON: US President George Bush has some advice for Pakistanis whining about being short-changed by Washington in the war on terrorism: Don't keep a score-card. Bush's terse remark on the issue came after a Pakistani scribe voiced the familiar Pakistani lament about Islamabad not getting enough in return for the favours it was doing Washington. "I don't view relations as one that there's a score card that says... if we all fight terror together... somebody owes somebody something," Bush responded sharply at a White House interaction, with Pakistani military ruler Pervez Musharraf seated beside him. Bush returned to the subject a little later, saying, "Friends don't sit there and have a score card that says, well, he did this, or he did that, and therefore... there's a deficit. Our relationship is one where we work closely together for the common good of our own people and for the common good of the world." The Pakistani journalist was giving expression to views frequently voiced in Islamabad that it was not being rewarded sufficiently by the US, especially in matters of military supplies. Some US officials privately contest that, pointing out that Pakistan was getting billions in aid when it could easily have been punished for backing terrorism throughout the 1990s and for its nuclear infractions. But perhaps for the first time, Bush pointedly suggested that Pakistan also had to fight terrorism for its own good, even as he lavished praise on Musharraf for his role. "President (Musharraf...) and I are absolutely committed to fighting off the terrorists who would destroy life in Pakistan, or the United States, or anywhere else," Bush said. "And I appreciate very much your clear vision of the need for people of goodwill and hope to prevail over those who are willing to inflict death in order to achieve an ideology that is just backward and dark in its view." Such subtly disguised public rebuke was just one of the several setbacks for Pakistan on a Saturday on which Bush entertained an in-transit Musharraf who made a refuelling stop in Washington on his way back from visits to Brazil, Argentina and Mexico. The US President did not offer any comfort to Musharraf on the Kashmir issue, which the Pakistani strongman had tried to bring to the front burner by linking it to the Palestinian question and presenting them as core issues roiling the Muslim world. Telling newsmen that Musharraf and he reviewed the relationship between India and Pakistan during their talks, Bush would only say "he (Musharraf) has showed great courage in that relationship, leading toward what we hope will be a peaceful solution of what has been a historically difficult problem." There was no word of US mediation or facilitation, in keeping with Washington's stand that the issue is best addressed bilaterally. Musharraf also had no luck with yet another attempt to finagle F-16 fighter planes from the US. "We discussed the F-16 issue. That is all I would like to say, thank you," he told reporters. Bush did not address the issue at all. US officials later told journalists that while the issue figured in the talks, there was no announcement or decision from the administration on the Pakistani request. Pakistan has made the supply of F-16s a litmus test for US commitment to Pakistani-American relations, while scorning at US aid in educational and social sectors.
Actually I sympathise with pakistanis. This is not at all fair. I mean come on, the only reason pakistanis are cooperating with yanks in fighting terrorism (slaughtering pure muslims) is because they expect some monetory compensation but here the yanks are saying "dont you enjoy it too" ?? This is ghor kalyug and there is no justice in this world.. In gujarati there is a saying which translates to "bring your own bed to get screwed".. Very sad to see our neighbours being taken for a ride..
Posted by: Muppalla Dec 5 2004, 08:04 PM
QUOTE (Naresh @ Dec 1 2004, 05:33 PM)
Reggie, The link for the Indian Express Article doesn’t work so here is the correct link : Naidu has to cater to his Muslim minority in Hyderabad and as such he must pay the "bend down tributes"
Sorry to digress from this thread: ---------------------------------------------------- This is the stupidity played by some of our politicians without even doing basic calculations. Let's take Naidu and AP's case: The population of muslims in AP is about six percent(I dont have accurate figures). Of the six percent population, about 90 percent lives in the Hyderabad,Secunderabad and around areas. They all vote to MIM/Congress no matter what you do. Naidu's party i.e TDP hardly has any chance of getting more than 0.5 percent of total Muslims in Andhra Pradesh. The loss due to Muslim votes for TDP can happen in about 4 to 5 constituencies in the entire state. The only feasible reason I can see is the fear of losing secular Hindu vote it he/TDP goes overtly anti Muslim. In the changed political scenario of India post Ayodhya, I guess this is not really an issue to worry about for people like Naidu.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 6 2004, 06:44 AM WASHINGTON, Dec 3: Pakistan will not have a stable democracy until there's a social revolution empowering the people and despite the problems it is facing, the Saudi rulers are facing they will continue to rule the kingdom. These were some of the views expressed at a seminar on Al Qaeda at the US Senate's Russell building on Thursday. The seminar focused mainly on the nature of terrorism after 9/11 and how it threatens US interests across the globe but many speakers also used the opportunity to attack Muslims and their faith. On occasions, the attack became so obvious and stinging that many of those Muslims who attended the seminar were hurt. "Let them say what they say, we are what we are," said Nilofer Afridi-Qazi, daughter of the former Pakistani ambassador to Washington, Ashraf Jehangir Qazi. Ms Qazi, a Muslim with liberal views and Western manners, believed that many speakers were unfair to "both Islam and the Muslims." She was not alone. Kamran Butt, another liberal Muslim disliked in Washington's Islamic circles for saying that Islamists and clerics have no place in today's world, was also offended. When CNN producer Octavia Nasr, who presented a paper on Al Qaeda's media strategy, said to him that the death of almost 100,000 people in Iraq is not the same as that of 3,000 people in New York, Mr Butt exclaimed: "Oh, so Muslim lives are worth nothing!" One of the speakers, Georg Mascolo, described radical Islam as the "AIDS virus," which continues to weaken humanity. Another, Jessica Stern, said one of "the biggest problems" was the existence of Muslim pockets in the West as they were recruiting grounds for future terrorists. Steve Simon, a senior analyst at Rand Corporation, coined the term "ummanitis" on the pattern of meningitis to describe the notion that all Muslims belong to one nation. But some serious and thoughtful papers were also presented at the seminar, pointing out the mistakes that allowed Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups to spread their tentacles across the Muslim world. Some speakers also showed how the West, particularly the United States, has continued to support corrupt and totalitarian rulers in the Islamic world which, in turn, allowed extremists to fan anti-Western sentiments among the Muslims. Anatol Lieven, a senior associate at Washington's Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, spoke on Pakistan's struggle with democracy. He depicted the Zia regime as an authoritarian military rule that perpetuated itself in the name of Islam but the Musharraf government was treated leniently as "a mild dictatorship." Mr Lieven pointed out that many Pakistanis blame the United States for backing the Zia and Musharraf governments and for withdrawing its support to the elected governments of prime ministers Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif. "There's a certain amount of truth" in this criticism, said Mr. Lieven, but he believed that the Pakistanis exaggerate the American factor in their internal politics. "The nature of Pakistani society and its economy is such that it will continue to struggle with democracy until there's a social revolution of sorts that changes the current socio-economic situation," he said. Mr Lieven said that although it was unfashionable to talk of "distribution of wealth" after the collapse of communism, Pakistan does need to distribute its wealth more equally. He asked those Pakistanis who blame the United States for favouring corrupt and authoritarian regimes, if they want "a more direct intervention" from Washington to put things right. Wright said that many Saudis want a change but "the fear of fanaticism and total chaos" prevents them from pushing for the change.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 6 2004, 06:55 AM
QUOTE (Muppalla @ Dec 6 2004, 08:34 AM)
Sorry to digress from this thread: ---------------------------------------------------- This is the stupidity played by some of our politicians without even doing basic calculations. Let's take Naidu and AP's case: The population of muslims in AP is about six percent(I dont have accurate figures). Of the six percent population, about 90 percent lives in the Hyderabad,Secunderabad and around areas. They all vote to MIM/Congress no matter what you do. Naidu's party i.e TDP hardly has any chance of getting more than 0.5 percent of total Muslims in Andhra Pradesh. The loss due to Muslim votes for TDP can happen in about 4 to 5 constituencies in the entire state. The only feasible reason I can see is the fear of losing secular Hindu vote it he/TDP goes overtly anti Muslim. In the changed political scenario of India post Ayodhya, I guess this is not really an issue to worry about for people like Naidu.
Muppalla, Be that as it may it has become absolutely necessary for the Indian Politician to pander to the Muslim Vote Bank. Please read my post of Nov 28 2004, 08:51 PM with the Article : DEMOCRACY — WHAT MR JINNAH SAID —ANJUM ALTAF. The Artilce is based on Mr. Jinnah’s statement : So far as I have understood Islam, it does not advocate a democracy which would allow the majority of non-Muslims to decide the fate of the Muslims. We cannot accept a system of government in which the non-Muslims merely by numerical majority would rule and dominate us.” I draw your attention to the last sentence in Mr. Altaf’s Article : I invite readers to contribute their views so that we may sift the evidence and make our way towards a reasoned and hopefully unbiased conclusion. I have personally been in correspondence with him and he is the epitome of a Scholar and a Gentleman. In fact I have invited him to join this Forum. His E-mail Address: All the Best
Posted by: Naresh Dec 9 2004, 06:15 AM
ISLAMABAD: The International Monetary Fund (IMF) in its latest report has claimed that the Planning Commission is distorting the labour market data, while customs data being released by the Federal Bureau of Statistics (FBS) differs with the similar data being maintained by the State Bank of Pakistan (SBP) and customs wing of the Central Board of Revenue (CBR). The fund also pointed out shortcomings in the dissemination of data relating to GDP, annual wages, earnings, balance of payments, and the mechanism of collection of consumer prices index (CPI) and wholesale prices index (WPI). The IMF has pointed out these drawbacks in its 195-page report on the Observance of Standards and Codes on Data Module for Pakistan, released on Wednesday. It was prepared by the IMF team as background documentation for the periodic consultation with the member country.
Posted by: acharya Dec 9 2004, 10:21 PM
Pakistan asked to help resolve world issues: Musharraf By B. Muralidhar Reddy ISLAMABAD, DEC. 9. The Pakistan President, Pervez Musharraf, says that Washington, London and Paris share Islamabad's emphasis that the Kashmir "dispute" needs to be resolved for durable peace and stability in South Asia. Talking to correspondents onboard his special aircraft, on his way back home from his two-week foreign tour, Gen. Musharraf said that the leaders of these Western countries were receptive to his urging that political disputes must be addressed to rid the world of terrorism in the long-term. "I put across a loud and clear message that the underlying causes of terror have to be addressed because, if left festering, the disputes will continue to breed a sense of deprivation and extremism," he said. Role for Pakistan Gen. Musharraf told journalists that it was a matter of pride for Pakistan that the world leaders asked him to play a role in addressing major international issues, including Palestine. "It is great for the country that we are being asked to contribute our bid in resolving world disputes — the world believes we have a role — it clearly signifies our elevated status in the comity of nations. The world recognises that Pakistan has a significant role to play in the region, in the Muslim world and the world at large — it should be a matter of great pride for us." He described his visit to Latin America, the U.S., the United Kingdom and France as highly productive, saying it helped improve Pakistan's political and diplomatic relations with these countries and also opened new vistas of trade and economic cooperation. Referring to his talks with the U.S. President, George W. Bush, at the White House, Gen. Musharraf said that Washington had assured him of considering a free trade agreement, saying it would boost Pakistan's exports.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 10 2004, 10:33 AM
Posted by: Naresh Dec 11 2004, 06:48 AM
More Short Circuits and Air Vacuums in Pakistan : user posted image * Balochistan Liberation Army claims responsibility * Military truck, eight cars and 10 shops wrecked * Musharraf and Aziz condemn blast * Compensation announced for blast victims QUETTA: A powerful bomb exploded at Mezan Chowk in Quetta on Friday, killing at least 11 people and injuring at least 30, officials said. The bomb, weighing at least 4 kilogrammes, had been attached to a bicycle, officials said. Nationalist group, the Balochistan Liberation Army (BLA), claimed responsibility for the bombing. The blast in the centre of the city wrecked a military truck and at least eight other vehicles. At least 10 shops in a business district were also damaged, witnesses said. Human body parts and blood were splattered around the busy square, which was sealed off by the security forces. Several victims were killed on the spot, and others died in hospital, doctors said. ISPR officials said two Pakistani soldiers were among the dead, while at least four others were among the wounded. BLA spokesman Azad Baloch told reporters by telephone from his hideout, “The bombing is a warning to the government to stop the construction of new cantonments and Gwadar Port in Balochistan.” Meanwhile, President Pervez Musharraf condemned on Friday the blast at Mezan Chowk and vowed to take action against the perpetrators. He said the explosion was triggered by people working against peace and development in the country and promised to foil their attempts. He said such incidents would not deter the government from completing developing projects. He said development projects of national importance would continue, particularly in Balochistan, to bring it at par with the rest of the country. President Musharraf also condoled with the blast victims’ families and said people who targeted the innocent would not be spared. He ordered the district administration and law enforcement agencies to take all steps to arrest those responsible and called for coordinated efforts to track down the terrorists. Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz also condemned the bomb blast at Mezan Chowk, saying action would be taken against the perpetrators. He ordered the authorities to track down the terrorists and punish them and asked the district administration to provide the latest treatment to the injured. He also condoled with the victims’ families and said the government would continue fighting terrorism. Information Minister Sheikh Rasheed Ahmed denounced what he called “a heinous act of terrorism”. “The people responsible will not go unpunished,” he said. “The terrorists want to destabilise the country and create anarchy over here, but they will fail in their designs.” Officials say the nationalists lack popular support and are backed only by handful of tribal chiefs opposed to the development. Balochistan Governor Owais Ahmed Ghani also condoled with the victims’ families and said the perpetrators were not helping the province by taking the lives of innocent civilians. Chief Minister Jam Yousaf condemned the explosion and ordered police to arrest those responsible for the act. Quetta Nazim Rahim Kakar blamed “nationalists who don’t want to see progress in Balochistan” for the incident. He announced Rs 100,000 for the families of those killed in the explosion, Rs 50,000 for the seriously injured and Rs 25,000 for those slightly injured.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 11 2004, 09:24 AM Pakistan is expected to allow United Nations nuclear investigators to put questions in writing to Abdel Qadeer Khan, the scientist at the centre of an illegal smuggling network that supplied nuclear materials and expertise to at least three countries, according to western diplomats. Such indirect access would fall short of the face-to-face interviews the International Atomic Energy Agency has been seeking but it could still prove an important step in the agency's efforts to untangle the network of manufacturers and middleman that supplied sensitive machinery and know-how to Libya, Iran, North Korea and perhaps others. Western diplomats familiar with the investigation into the illicit network said the IAEA was also making progress towards gaining access to Mr Khan's key associate, Bukhari Sayed Abu Tahir, the Dubai-based businessman who is in custody in Kuala Lumpur. Mr Abu Tahir has been held under a security act that prevents all contact with him. But investigators are now expecting to be allowed to see him. The Pakistani government pardoned Mr Khan earlier this year and has refused to allow foreign investigators to interview him directly. The lack of direct access means Pakistan can screen Mr Khan's answers, allowing it to protect any officials with knowledge of his illicit activities and prevent the release of important information that could help the investigation. In Islamabad, a foreign ministry spokesman maintained that Pakistan's position had not changed and that the ministry was not aware of any request for written questions to be submitted to Mr Khan. "Investigations in this case will only be done by Pakistanis. No outside agency or person will have access to Dr Khan," he said. Mohamed ElBaradei, director-general of the IAEA, said his agency had agreed "modalities" with Pakistan that should enable it to receive information from Mr Khan, but he refused to be drawn on their nature. He said his agency was in talks with the Malaysian government on access to Mr Abu Tahir. "It's a complicated issue," he said, referring to Mr Khan's case. "There are legal impediments so we have to work through governments involved and governments have been quite co-operative." UN investigators are hoping these two key figures might provide information on customers of the illegal network that have not declared their nuclear programmes. "It's important for us to know who else got equipment and whether there are undeclared programmes," Mr ElBaradei said. Libya, which abandoned its nuclear weapons ambitions a year ago, obtained designs for a nuclear weapon from the Khan-Tahir network. The Chinese originated blueprints are now in the US. The IAEA wants to know whether Iran and North Korea might have made a similar purchase.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 12 2004, 08:39 AM
ISLAMABAD: The technical meeting of the Indus River System Authority (Irsa) on Saturday decided that the anticipated water shortage for Rabi 2004-5 would remain 47 per cent.
Posted by: acharya Dec 14 2004, 06:55 PM
Thursday, December 09, 2004 US plans to denuke Pakistan in a decade SOURCE: 9 December 2004: US president George W.Bush chaired a closed-door congressional discussion to denuke Pakistan in eight to ten years, and the interim will serve to put the country on a sound political economic footing, turn it into a welfare state focussing on secular education, health and employment-generation, and tie it up with various international organisations and treaties to make it forward-looking and progressive. The discussion took place on the basis of a detailed CIA paper, whose findings were endorsed by the Congressional Research Service, and the Bush administration wants to preemptively engage Pakistan categorised with Columbia and Angola as incipiently anti-America before it turns actively hostile like Iran, Syria, and North Korea. Becoming a declared welfare state, diplomats argue, Pakistan would be in a position to de-jihadiise its society by re-educating its youth and giving them gainful employment, and by virtue of its MNNA status, the US will guarantee its security and resolve its disputes with its neighbours India, Iran and Afghanistan, plus provide weapons and logistics to counter terrorism. The US move to sell F-16s also falls in the overall scheme to makeover Pakistan, the sales meant to appease domestic constituencies who might otherwise resist American cleansing efforts, but the bottomline, according to diplomatic sources, is to denuke the country with whatever means are possible. “The long-term goal is to denuke Pakistan,” a diplomat said, “and all the rest are preliminaries to that final goal.”
Posted by: acharya Dec 14 2004, 10:07 PM
Posted by: ramana Dec 14 2004, 10:52 PM
I dont know how much of this is true and how much is wishful thinking. I do agree that a major US interest is in making sure that jihadis dont get access to nukes for obvious reasons. Another is that nukes are not used anywhere else after the WWII use for that devalues the nukes. Beyond this I dont know what to believe. It was the US in the first place that looked the otherway when China first provided the nukes in mid 1980s to Pakistan as part of the Cold War logic. And various US Admins continued to certify the that TSP was nuke free in order to circumvent the Pressler Amendment. Again all indications to a rational person are that the 911 was facilitated by TSP yet it is mollycoddled. So I dont think that this US plan will come thru. Its probably a yarn sold to some MEA babu that is being peddled in this news report.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 15 2004, 12:25 AM
Old video where Imran calls India promoting cross border terrorism and praising taliban.. biggrin.gif Warning : real video And Aamir Khan went helping this rascal collect jihadi money.. mad.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 15 2004, 12:30 AM
There was nothing inevitable about the break-up of Pakistan. Had it not occurred, Pakistan would be the world’s largest Muslim democracy today. Maybe even an economic tiger.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 15 2004, 01:33 AM
GEO (November 5, 2004) had Aniq Ahmad in his Alif programme discussing dialogue among religions with Prof Manzur Ahmad, and clerics from sects plus a Christian priest. One cleric said that the Quran had said the Jews were firm enemies and so were the pagans (India) but the Christians were soft on Islam and there could be dialogue with them. Christians were not proud and were educated too. Prof Manzur said dialogue was not tabligh (proselytising) and Muslims should not approach a dialogue with other faiths in order to convince them to leave their religion and join Islam. Christian Father said that first one will have to decide what kind of minds had been developed in Pakistan. If the mind was inflexible then it will not dialogue with anyone. The Shia cleric said there was no ban on dialoguing with the Jews in the Quran. He said Quran was negative only about the Jews of Madina. Sunni cleric insisted that Quranic verse was daemi (eternal) therefore Jews were enemies even today. Aniq said the Quran ordained that both Christians and Jews were enemies of Islam; how could the Christians be good then? Christian Father said Muslims could do ijtihad whereupon Aniq asked could there be ijtihad on the verse of the Quran? This was a most absurd discussion with Dr Manzur Ahmed alone talking sense. The clerics were unfit for any human dialogue (even with Muslims) because of their intellectual rigidity. The Sunni was divided with Shia over whether to talk to other faiths. If Islam is to talk to other faiths the ulema will have to be kept out of it. Finally, the discussion made shipwreck on the issue of ijtihad: whether a Muslim could reinterpret a clear verse of the Quran. One fallacy among Muslims is that they allow reinterpretation of faith. The truth is that they live in taqleed (imitation) of the fiqh (jurists) of later times. The only ijtihad useful to Muslims would be ijtihad on the nas of the Quran, as proposed by Allama Iqbal in his Sixth Lecture and rejected by General Zia and the clergy. That is why nothing has gone right with Islamisation, starting from zakat to diyat (blood money) and the hudood. When the Muslims have done ijtihad on the nas they have done ijtihad-e-ma’akoos (retrogressive reinterpretation) as in the case of the Quranic nas on the law of divorce. *
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 15 2004, 04:35 PM
Posted by: Naresh Dec 18 2004, 04:27 PM “Islam subscribes to democracy but it does not advocate a democracy that would allow a majority of non-Muslims to decide the fate of Muslims. We cannot accept a system of government in which non-Muslims merely by numerical majority would rule and dominate us.” When one looks at a statement like that it appears quite weighty and serious. But change a few terms and it begins to appear much less robust. See what happens when one takes it across the social spectrum. We believe in democracy but we cannot accept a system of government in which merely by numerical majority: 1. Bengalis would rule and dominate non-Bengalis; 2. The illiterate would rule and dominate the educated; 3. The poor would rule and dominate the affluent; 4. Men would rule and dominate women; 5. The dark-skinned would rule and dominate the light-skinned; 6. Right-handers would rule and dominate left-handers. It is a quick descent. And the logic crumbles because the worldview inherent in the formulation is incompatible with the fundamental premise of democratic governance. Democratic governance rests on the principle of one-person-one-vote and on the unqualified acceptance of the individual as a unit of decision-making free to decide according to his or her best judgement. It is incompatible with a world in which governance is a zero-sum game between mutually-exclusive groups whose leaders convince or intimidate their members to vote in accordance with real or presumed group interests. It is also incompatible with a world in which groups actually do oppress each other. Based on that definition, one cannot talk of democracy in the same breath as talking of some groups dominating and ruling over other groups. The latter conceptualisation is alien to democracy and belongs to a pre-democratic world. Thus, for example, it would seem bizarre to say that Republicans dominate and rule over Democrats after the recent US elections and would now proceed to oppress them after their triumph. No, the Republicans represent a platform that a majority of the electorate chose to support. A loss of support for the platform could lead to a Democratic victory in the next elections. But the Democrats are then just as unlikely to dominate and rule over the Republicans and exact revenge for their previous oppression. These are Republicans and Democrats not Hutus and Tutsis. The Republicans and Democrats belong to the democratic world. The Hutus and Tutsis belong to the pre-democratic world. They have to settle some very fundamental differences before democracy can begin to function in Rwanda. One has only to take a look at Iraq to see the nature of the democratic problem in situations where groups and communities dominate individuals. Everyone believes in democracy but the Sunnis are averse to accepting a system of government in which non-Sunnis would rule and dominate them. And the Kurds are reluctant to accept a system of government in which either the Sunnis or the Shias would rule and dominate them. And given the history who is to say that the fears of either are not genuine? Democracy cannot function well in situations where people feel unprotected as individuals and seek security in the membership of mutually-exclusive loyalty groups. But democracy is not the only system of governance available. In situations where groups constitute the primary units they can conceivably arrive at some understanding amongst themselves that would allow peaceful co-existence within a territorial state. This proposition is not unrealistic. Prof CM Naim mentions in his book Ambiguities of Heritage (City Press, Karachi, 1999, p. 62) that before 1947 the nationalist ulema had in mind a future constitution of India based on a pact between Muslims and non-Muslims on the pattern of the one between the Muslims and the Jews of Medina. In recent times, such a pact was negotiated between the three dominant communities in Lebanon in 1943. The pact provided for a sectarian political system in which the Christian, Sunni and Shia communities reached agreement on a division of power that would minimise conflict amongst the religious groups. An agreement along similar lines is one of the options being considered for Iraq at present. A very similar pact was reached between the three dominant ethnic groups in Malaysia in 1954. There the parties representing the three contending ethnic groups were the United Malay National Organisation, the Malayan Chinese Association and the Malayan Indian Congress. After race riots in 1969, the benefits of the pact were explicitly extolled by Tunku Abdul Rahman: “The Malays have gained for themselves political power. The Chinese and Indians have won for themselves economic power. The blending of the two with complete goodwill and understanding has brought about peace and harmony coupled with prosperity to the country.” This is the underlying bargain on which Malaysian unity rests. And it is also the reason why the electoral outcome is always a foregone conclusion. One can call it a pragmatic solution in a situation where the underlying antagonisms were not conducive to ‘true’ democratic governance. One can also look at the same period in Indonesia where the absence of a similar pact resulted in much worse outcomes for the ethnic Chinese population. One can now return and take a fresh look at the situation as it exists in Pakistan today. It is not as bad as Rwanda but it is not all that much better. And perennial optimism and pious hopes aside, realistic prospects are dim, given the existence of entrenched and antagonistic loyalty groups, for the unqualified transfers of power that a functioning democracy would demand. In this situation, can the contending groups arrive at a mutual understanding on power sharing that would provide the breathing space for the conditions of a functioning democracy to mature? Once again, one cannot be too optimistic for the situation is much more complex than the ones described for Lebanon and Malaysia. Lebanon had three groups divided by religious affiliation; Malaysia had three groups divided by ethnicity. Pakistan, on the other hand, has by now many more contending groups. Ethnic and religious groups co-exist and even the latter are split along schools of thought. At the same time, the armed forces represent a dominant occupational grouping. It seems that society is much too fractured and there are too many groups for any likely agreement to prove durable. Looking back, one can see that the pact in Lebanon collapsed because the underlying demographics, on which it was based, changed and there was no mechanism to adjust the agreement in line with the changes. In Malaysia, it was very rapid and sustained economic growth that catered to the special preferences granted to Malays but still left enough to satisfy the minimal aspirations of the Chinese and the Indians. Without the economic growth it is unlikely that the pact would have lasted as long in a society that was so deeply divided. In the short run, Pakistan is in a very deep hole. The entrenched loyalty groups would continue to jeopardise any emergent democratic order; the severe and multiple fractures would jeopardise any political contract; the absence of a conflict-resolution mechanism would jeopardise investments in employment-generating growth and lead to further fractures. The alternatives do not appear very promising. Email:
Posted by: Naresh Dec 19 2004, 01:26 PM There has been a big protest in the Pakistani city of Rawalpindi against the rule of the country's president, Gen Pervez Musharraf. The rally came a day after he formally announced he would not, as promised, stand down as chief of the army. He made the promise this time last year after striking a deal with an alliance of right-wing religious parties. The alliance, the MMA, organised Sunday's rally and vowed to continue street protests. President's address Thousands of people gathered in torrential rain in the military garrison city of Rawalpindi to listen to a litany of complaints against President Musharraf. The speakers accused him of being a dictator, no different from Pakistan's three other military rulers before him. It is five years since President Musharraf seized power in a bloodless coup. The speakers said his decision was unconstitutional and unlawful and took Pakistan further from, not closer to, the democracy the president promised to bring to the country. The president has said he will address the nation in the coming days to explain his decision. But leaks by members of the government have already indicated President Musharraf believes he needs to remain in uniform to pursue his policy of cracking down on military organisations and of pursuing peace with India.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 21 2004, 03:13 PM Is Pakistan a colony of the US? The right answer is that era of colonialism is over with the Second World War. Now is the era of client state. That is what Pakistan is. It’s not Musharraf who made Pakistan a client state, it’s foundation was laid by the very first Prime Minister, Liaqat Ali Khan. – RAUF, USA, via e-mail, December 13.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 21 2004, 03:15 PM
Who paid for AQ Khan network? Wilson John A year ago, around this time, startling revelations were tumbling forth from Washington about how a Pakistani rogue nuclear scientist, Mr AQ Khan, had set up a global chain of illegal nuclear trade with branch offices in Dubai, Malaysia, Germany, US, UK, Tripoli, Tehran, Baghdad and Pyongyang. The investigations carried out by the US intelligence agencies and officials of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) revealed the involvement of several people dispersed across the globe, and raised the spectre of terrorists tapping into the nuclear blackmarket chain. What the US agencies and the media failed to focus on was that the American taxpayer bankrolled the nuclear underworld. A report prepared by Observer Research Foundation, a New Delhi-based public policy think tank, on the AQ Khan's network, reveals how the CIA was was aware that "Pakistan was diverting a large portion of its foreign aid to nuclear development programme". In 1993, testifying before the Senate Committee on Government Affairs, the agency said Pakistan had received $19 billion in aid from foreign countries and donor agencies like the International Monetary Fund. In a written response, the agency said out of $19 billion, $2.7 billion was not designated for any specific purpose, thus enabling Pakistan to spend it on its nuclear programme. Even if these figures are to be taken as real, they fail to explain the total amount spent by Pakistan on its nuclear development programme between 1974 and 1993 - $19.85 billion. There could only be two explanations for this accounting difference. First, Pakistan spent the aid it received from various donor agencies and countries-about $19 billion according to CIA -almost entirely on the programme. This is highly unlikely, given Pakistan's critical foreign exchange reserves, a burgeoning defence budget and a perpetual and desperate need to find money to initiate development programmes, especially in water resource management. Add to all this, the scourge of corruption. Second, the money came from a more anonymous source, considering no less a crucial fact that $19.85 billion (1993) was only the official figure. It does not take into account the missile-to-nuke barter Pakistan had entered into with North Korea. Nor the money routed through the network to set up front companies in Europe, the US, Dubai and Britain, pay agents to procure nuclear materials and know-how illegally, and thereby more expensively, and ship them to Pakistan through various cut-outs and routes to avoid detection. The question is how did the money reach the Khan Research Laboratory, the nuclear facility set up by the Pakistan and run by Mr AQ Khan. Most of the funds were parked with two less-known entities - the Ghulam Ishaq Khan Institute of Science and Technology, set up in Islamabad to honour President Ghulam Ishaq Khan and Attock Cement Private Ltd (APCL), a factory off Dera Ghazi Khan owned by Ghaith Pharaon, a Saudi billionaire who owns, besides the cement unit, two oil refineries and a software firm in Pakistan. Both these organisations had a common link: Bank of Credit and Commerce International. The Institute was set up with a grant of $10 million from the Bank. The Institute's first director was AQ Khan, a close ally of President Khan from the days of Bhutto. Pharaon, declared a fugitive by the US authorities, was a close friend of Abedi who helped BCCI to secretly buy an American bank, First American, and introduce Abedi to the power brokers in Washington DC. An independent investigation carried out by a US Senate Committee in 1992 would pin down the Institute and the cement factory as the conduits for the BCCI to fund Pakistan's secret programme for nuclear deals through the Black Network. Senator John F Kerry headed the Senate Committee, which unravelled the web of a powerful, anonymous financial underworld that stretched from the lanes of Karachi to the White House. The BCCI was not an ordinary bank. Nor was its owner, Agha Hassan Abedi. By 1977, the BCCI was the world's fastest growing bank, operating from 146 branches (including 45 in the United Kingdom) in 43 countries including Africa, the East Asia and the Americas. From assets worth $200 million, the bank, by the mid-1980s, was operating from 73 countries with assets over $22 billion. Its rise was phenomenal and of the several reasons, the most crucial was Abedi's friendship with some of the most powerful personalities - President Zia, President Ghulam Ishaq Khan, President Jimmy Carter, the ruling families of Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates, billionaires like Ghaith Pharaon, Khalid bin Mahfouz and Saudi intelligence chief Kamal Adham, a key liaison man between the CIA and Saudi Arabia. Among those who allegedly benefited from the BCCI were US Ambassador to the United Nations Andrew Young, Bert Lance, Jesse Jackson, former British Prime Minister James Callaghan, then United Nations Secretary General Javier Perez de Cueller, Jamaican Prime Minister Edward Seaga, Antiguan Prime Minister Lester Byrd; a large number of African heads of state; and many Third World central bank officials. An example of Abedi's influence could gauged from the fact that he lent his corporate jet to Carter after his retirement, donated $500,000 to help establish the Carter Centre at Emory University in Atlanta and donated heavily to Carter's Global 2000 Foundation. It was the John Kerry Committee that, perhaps for the first time, hinted at the possibility of BCCI funding the nuclear smuggling network. In its exhaustive report (available at, the committee quoted a CIA memorandum which stated that "the Agency did have some reporting (as of 1987) on BCCI being used by Third World regimes to acquire weapons and transfer technology". In its conclusion, the Senate report said there was "good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear programme through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade US and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies." Years later, an Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) officer, Major Ikram Sehgal, would write (Gulf News, November 24, 2001) about the mysterious, daily remittances of $100,000 made by BCCI in Karachi to bank accounts in Canada till mid-1988. With the collapse of the bank following the Senate investigations and death of Abedi in 1998, many of those who ran the BCCI escaped prosecution and vanished from the headlines but only to emerge later as honourable businessmen, high-profile bankers and traders, a few as key financiers of Osama bin Laden's network of terror. A 70-page intelligence report prepared by French authorities in October 2001 said Laden's network of investments was quite similar to the one set up by the BCCI "often with the same people (former directors and staff of the bank and its affiliates, arms merchants, Saudi investors)". The report identified dozens of companies and individuals who were involved with the BCCI and were found to be dealing with the bin Laden network after the bank collapsed. This link has not been probed indepth and needs to be investigated thoroughly, given the recent disclosure by a former Al Qaeda senior leader about Osama bin Laden getting access to nuclear material.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 23 2004, 04:07 PM
" I was told that I was guilty of disservice to Islam because Islam believes in democracy. So far as I have understood Islam, it does not advocate a democracy which would allow the majority of non-Muslims to decided the fate of Muslims. We cannot accept a system of government in which the non-Muslims merely by numerical majority would rule and dominates
Now we have Pakistani President General Musharraf stating : Tells Jamali reconciliation important for stable democracy ISLAMABAD: President General Pervez Musharraf said on Thursday the government was working hard for political harmony, but would not be dictated to by a minority. “We are trying our best, but one thing ought to be clearly understood : that there cannot be the rule of the minority. Democracy means the rule of majority, and the rule of majority has to prevail, the rule of minority cannot prevail,” Gen Musharraf said at the 15th dinner reception of the Pakistani American Public Affairs Committee. “While rapprochement and reconciliation are underway, it does not mean that the minority should rule the majority,” he said. The president said Pakistan today had “real democracy” where people’s fundamental rights were respected. “An essence of democracy is freedom of speech and expression. Today nobody is put behind bars for their views or criticism in both the print and electronic media - they are not targeted, they are not victimised,” he said. On Pakistan-India relations, he said Pakistan was prepared to be flexible in the dispute over Kashmir if India was willing to reciprocate. “We will be flexible, when the other side also shows flexibility. Both sides need to move back from their maximalist positions on Kashmir ... we need to meet somewhere midway,” he said. He said confidence-building measures and dispute resolution with India should move in tandem. “We are hopeful that good sense will prevail and both sides will move towards a sustainable process of peace and economic development in the region,” he added. Also on Thursday, Gen Musharraf met former prime minister Zafarullah Jamali and told him that political reconciliation was important for the stability of democracy in the country. He also asked Jamali to discuss national reconciliation, major water reservoirs and other issues with the PPP and MMA. Agencies
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 23 2004, 05:44 PM
ISLAMABAD: Quaid-i-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah has topped a BBC poll to find the greatest ever South Asian leader, it was reported on Thursday.
Bangladeshi communist leader Subhash Chandra Bose came in third with 21 percent of people voting for him.
Posted by: Naresh Dec 25 2004, 01:38 PM
Firstly, let me say that I have seen the performance of a large number of young men and women who have been through the government examination boards at first hand. As president of a degree-awarding educational institution for five years, I have been appalled by the pathetic quality of the education imparted by the state system. Worse, kids with first divisions from some of the 26 government examination boards have been incapable of writing two sentences of grammatically correct English.
Cheers cheers.gif
Posted by: Naresh Dec 25 2004, 03:49 PM At least four Pakistani soldiers have been killed in a rocket attack in a remote part of Balochistan province. Officials said four others were hurt when their vehicle was ambushed by unidentified gunmen. The army is investigating amid reports that a group called the Balochistan Liberation Army claims responsibility. Correspondents say the attack may be linked to local opposition to a government plan to set up new army garrisons in the mineral-rich province.
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 27 2004, 05:08 PM
Islamabad, Dec 27 (PTI): India today announced unilateral relaxation of the visa regime for Pakistan nationals above 65 years and below 12 years. It also offered student visas to Pakistanis on case-by-case basis for studying in reputed Indian educational institutions. The decisions were announced by Foreign Secretary Shyam Saran at a media conference after talks on the first of the two-day dialogue concluding tomorrow. He also announced the extension of free medical facilities for Pakistani children suffering from cardiac ailments in Indian medical institutions. Earlier, India had given free medical treatment to 40 Pakistani children. Now, 20 more children will be accorded such a facility. Asked about Pakistan's response to this, he said this was a unilateral decision to be implemented by India and New Delhi would appreciate any reciprocal gesture by Pakistan. The visa relaxation proposals would be notified as soon as arrangements at the Wagah border were made, he said.
Does anybody want to take a guess what those 'reciprocal' gestures might be ?? dry.gif
Posted by: Naresh Dec 28 2004, 02:29 PM
Posted by: rajesh_g Dec 29 2004, 03:23 PM ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif Yes, yes and the jews engineered 9/11 and hindus set themselves on fire in godhra..
Posted by: Naresh Dec 30 2004, 03:56 AM
Pakistan's president user posted image Pervez Musharraf refuses to honour his promise to quit the army UNDER the leadership of General Pervez Musharraf, much good has been accomplished in Pakistan since September 11th 2001. Formerly a regional pariah, arming Islamic fanatics in Afghanistan and Kashmir, the country is considered a staunch ally by America in its fight against terrorism. This change was wrought by Mr Musharraf, who was recently rewarded with a trip to Washington and lashings of aid money. If only the general's domestic supporters felt similarly. Last week, the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal (MMA), a coalition of Islamist parties that had supported Mr Musharraf, held protests to demand his resignation. As the new year loomed, more demonstrations were planned, and the MMA threatened to derail parliament. Why the change of heart? Put simply, the clerics do not like Mr Musharraf's clothes. One year ago, their support allowed him to legitimise his dictatorship, but it came with a condition: by the end of 2004, Mr Musharraf had to honour his promise to peel off his uniform and become a civilian. And this, in a recent TV interview, and to the surprise of no one, Mr Musharraf refused to do. Assuming that Mr Musharraf does not have a change of heart—which no one expects—he may attempt to silence the clerics by seeking friends elsewhere. This is a tactic he understands well. Mr Musharraf first patronised the MMA as a means to quash Pakistan's boisterous secular parties. By assisting the clerics on their campaign trail, he ensured that no opposition party won a majority in an election in 2002, the first since his coup three years before. There are already signs that Mr Musharraf is changing his political partners. His American backers would like him to build bridges with the mainstream Pakistan People's Party (PPP), led by an exiled former prime minister, Benazir Bhutto. This seemed to come closer in November when Mr Musharraf released Ms Bhutto's husband, Asif Zardari, from prison, where he had languished for eight years without trial. Soon after, Mr Zardari was given a hero's welcome in his home province, Sindh. But when he set off to tour Punjab, the stronghold of the pro-Musharraf Pakistan Muslim League (PML), Mr Zardari was rearrested, and his protesting supporters were thrashed mercilessly by Punjabi police. Mr Zardari was freed the following day, and promptly announced that he would instead take his campaign to the two northern regions, North-West Frontier Province and Balochistan, which are controlled by the MMA. The difficulty for Mr Musharraf is that the PPP—unlike the stern clerics—is more popular than the PML. By letting the PPP campaign freely, he could ensure his own political extinction at the next election. Then again, if he turned against the PPP, it might form an alliance with the MMA and oppose his bid to remain army chief. Prior to this bind, Mr Musharraf had enjoyed rather a good year. His deal with the MMA ended a year of parliamentary gridlock, and swiftly led to Pakistan being readmitted to the (formerly British) Commonwealth, after four years out in the cold. The economy maintained a growth rate of over 6%. Having narrowly survived two assassination attempts, Mr Musharraf took decent strides against Islamic terrorist groups. Several mid-level al-Qaeda agents were netted in Pakistan. And if the army's assault on the tribesmen of northern Waziristan did not haul in the terrorist catch that was promised, it appeared to raise the president further in George Bush's regard. Mr Musharraf won more plaudits abroad by installing Shaukat Aziz, an able technocrat, as prime minister, and by supporting initiatives to improve relations with both India and Afghanistan. But, beyond the politics of central government, trouble is brewing. In Balochistan, a little-known group called the Baloch Liberation Army (BLA) has claimed responsibility for several ambushes on security forces in which at least two dozen paramilitary policemen have died. The BLA's grievances lie in a dispute between the government and local tribal leaders over the division of riches earned by Balochistan's gas field. With violence in Waziristan also continuing, as well as peace talks with India, this is no time for Mr Musharraf to become lost in political wrangling. The great irony of Mr Musharraf's predicament is that when he seized power from a discredited democratic leader, Nawaz Sharif, he was welcomed enthusiastically in Pakistan and condemned abroad. Today, he has won the support of the international community; no foreign ally has made much fuss about his refusal to turn civilian. But he is vulnerable and increasingly isolated at home.
Posted by: Naresh Jan 1 2005, 04:44 AM
Pakistan after having Aircraft which fly at Zero Speed and Electrifying its Cattle has now come up with the latest i.e. Every Bottle of “Bottled Water” will carry the following : WARNING : THE SURGEON GENERAL OF PAKISTAN WARNS CONSUMERS “THIS BOTTLED WATER IS POSITIVELY INJURIOUS TO THE HEALTH” clap.gif LAHORE, Dec 31: A division bench of the Supreme Court was informed on Friday that bottled water being marketed by a multi-national company was injurious to health and that of another firm , official supplier of the Pakistan Railways, carried the high risk of causing stomach and other diseases to consumers. The information came through sealed reports of water test of the two companies which the apex court itself ordered to the National Institute of Health at Islamabad and the PCSIR Laboratories in Lahore in the process of a writ petition that the multi-national company, Nestle, had moved in seeking a court injunction against the Pakistan Railways to cancel the contract of the Classic for the supply of bottled water and award that to it. Comprising Justice Khalilur Rehman Ramday and Justice Falak Sher, the bench took serious view of the reports observing that the firms were making the people to consume poison. ROTFL.gif The court also observed that rail passengers were particularly captive buyers as no hygienic water was available at platforms and inside trains. The court directed the Pakistan Railways to look into the alarming situation and decide itself if the bottled water being supplied to passengers was fit for consumption. The court also directed the railways to award the contract of water supply after ensuring that the essential commodity did not carry hazards to the health of the people. PAKISTAN - THE LAND OF THE PURE WHERE EVEN THE BOTTLED WATER IS IMPURE cheers.gif
Posted by: Mudy Jan 3 2005, 11:40 PM
Posted by: Viren Jan 4 2005, 08:54 AM!
Posted by: Viren Jan 4 2005, 08:57 AM'Pakistanis~won't~opt~to~live~in~India'
Pooh-poohing the report, Pakistan Foreign Office spokesman Masood Khan told reporters in Islamabad that no Pakistani would opt to live in India since "Pakistan is a land of opportunities." (it gives you the opportunity to go and die in Kashmir in which case the Govt of Pakistan will disown you)
Posted by: Naresh Jan 4 2005, 11:48 AM
Longish Post, but, both Parts need to be read together : There is a severe and long-standing crisis in higher education., until the present military government took the initiative, there was no rehabilitation plan. Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman, appointed as chairman of the Higher Education Commission, was the wonder-man charged by General Musharraf with turning the situation around. He was quick to make a powerful pitch for vast increases in funding. Foreign donors, worried about the implications of Pakistan's sinking educational system, obliged. The higher education budget zoomed by twelve times (1,200 per cent) over three years, a world record. A number of new and innovative utilization schemes were announced. Some solid achievements did emerge. Internet connectivity in universities has been substantially expanded; distance education is being seriously pursued through the newly established Virtual University; a digital library is in operation; some foreign faculty has been hired; Students are being sent abroad for PhD training (albeit largely to second rate institutions); some links with foreign institutions now exist; and money for scientific equipment is no longer a problem. No previous Pakistani government can boast of comparable accomplishments, and the HEC chairman deserves congratulations. But the HEC is also creating very dangerous, possibly lethal, systemic changes. In this article I will look at the problems in our higher education system and why the HEC reforms are set to make a bad situation worse rather than better. In a subsequent article, I will suggest some modest steps that may offer a way forward. Pakistan has almost a hundred universities now. Not one of them is world class. Truth be told, not even one of them is a real university, if by a university one means a community of scholars engaged in free inquiry and the creation of knowledge. Take for example the Quaid-i-Azam University in Islamabad, reputed to be Pakistan's best. Academic activities common in good universities around the world are noticeably absent. Seminars and colloquia, where faculty present for peer review the results of their on-going research, are few and far between. Public lectures, debates, or discussions of contemporary scientific, cultural, or political issues are almost non-existent. The teaching at QAU is no better. Rote learning is common, students are not encouraged to ask questions in class, and courses are rarely completed by the end of the semester. This university has three mosques but no bookstore. It is becoming more like a madressah in other ways too. It was not always this way. The global intellectual ferment of the late 1960's and 70's had a stimulating impact on Pakistani campuses. Intellectual, scientific, cultural and literary activity flourished. Young Pakistani scholars gave up potential careers in the West to come to Pakistani universities. But in November of 1981, just days after three QAU teachers had been caught with anti-martial law and pro-democracy pamphlets, General Ziaul Haq thundered on television that he would "purge the country's universities of the cancer of politics". He succeeded. A quarter century later, the faculty are more concerned with money and promotions than research, teaching, or bringing their knowledge to bear on the myriad issues facing our society. Among the students there are many burqas and beards, but minuscule intellectual or creative activity. All student unions are gone, and ideological disputes have evaporated into the thin air. Instead of left vs right politics there is simple tribalism. Now Punjabi students gang together against Pakhtoon students, Muhajirs versus Sindhis, Shias versus Sunnis, etc. Some campuses are run by gangs of hoodlums and harbour known criminals, while others have Rangers with machine guns on continuous patrol. On occasion, student wolf packs attack each other with sticks, stones, pistols, and automatic weapons. There are many campus murders. Most students have not learned how to think; they cannot speak or write any language well, rarely read newspapers, and cannot formulate a coherent argument or manage any significant creative expression. Dumbed down, this generation of Pakistanis is intellectually handicapped. Like overgrown children, students of my university now kill time by making colourful birthday posters for friends, do "istikhara" (fortune telling), and wander aimlessly in Islamabad's bazaars. Understanding the scale of the failure is important. Compare Pakistan's premier university with those in its neighbours' capitals. First to the east: Jawaharlal Nehru University, and the Indian Institute of Technology, in Delhi. Their facilities are simple and functional, nothing like the air-conditioned and carpeted offices of most professors at QAU. And, more important, every notice board is crammed with notices for seminars and colloquia, visitors from the very best foreign universities lecture there, research laboratories hum with activity, and pride and satisfaction are written all around. Conflict on campuses does exist - communist and socialist students battle with Hindutva students over the Gujrat carnage, Iraq, Kashmir, and the BJP doctoring of history. Angry words are exchanged and polemics are issued against the other, but no heads are bashed. While lecturing at these institutions during a recent visit, I was impressed by the fearlessness and the informed, critical intelligence of the students who questioned and challenged me. I cannot imagine an Indian professor having a similar reception in Pakistan. Now to the west: Teheran's Sharif University of Technology, and the Institute for Theoretical Physics and Mathematics, are impressive institutions filled with professional activity, workshops, and seminars. Even as they maintain good academic standards, Iranian university students are heavily political and today are spearheading the movement for freedom and democracy. Iranian students make it to the best US graduate schools. Although it is an Islamic republic, bookshops are more common than mosques in Tehran. Translations into Farsi appear in just weeks or months after a book is published in the western world. Driven by the unfavourable comparison with neighbours, the need for university reform finally became an issue. The first big idea was that Pakistan needed more universities. So today all it takes is a piece of paper from the HEC and some paint. Some colleges have literally had their signboards taken down for repainting, and been put back up changed into "universities" the next day. By such sleight of hand the current tally of public universities, according to the HEC website, is now officially 47, up from the 23 officially listed in 1996. In addition, there are eight degree awarding public sector institutes. Unfortunately, this is merely a numbers game. All new public sector universities lack infrastructure, libraries, laboratories, adequate faculty, or even a pool of students academically prepared to study at the university level. The HEC's "generosity" extends even into largely illiterate tribal areas. There are so-called universities now in Malakand, Bannu, Kohat, Khuzdar, Gujrat, Haripur, and in many other places where it is difficult to detect the slightest potential for successfully establishing modern universities. Another poorly thought-out, and dangerous, HEC scheme involves giving massive cash awards to university teachers for publishing research papers - Rs 60,000 per paper published in a foreign journal. Although these stimulants are said to have increased the number of papers published in international journals by a whopping 44 per cent, there is little evidence that this increase in volume is the result of an increase in genuine research activity. The fact is only a slim minority of Pakistani academics possesses the ethics, motivation, and capability needed for genuine scientific discovery and research. For the majority, the HEC incentives are a powerful reason to discover the art of publishing in research journals without doing research, to find loopholes, and to learn how to cover up one's tracks. Established practices of plagiarizing papers, multiple publications of slightly different versions of the same paper in different research journals, fabricating scientific data, and seeking out third-rate foreign journals with only token referees are now even more common. The HEC has broadcast the message : corruption pays. The casual disregard for quality is most obvious in the HEC's massive PhD production programme. This involves enrolling 1,000 students in Pakistani universities every year for PhD degrees. Thereby Pakistan's "PhD deficit" (it produces less than 50 PhDs per annum at present) will supposedly be solved and it will soon be at par with India. In consequence, an army of largely incapable and ignorant students, armed with hefty HEC fellowships, has sallied forth to write PhD theses. Although the HEC claims that it has checked the students through a "GRE type test" (the American graduate school admission test), a glance at the question papers reveals it to be only a shoddy literacy and numeric test. In my department, advertised as the best physics department in the country, the average PhD student now has trouble with high-school level physics and even with reading English. Nevertheless there are as many as 18 PhD students registered with one supervisor! In the QAU biology department, that number rises to 37 for one supervisor. HEC incentives have helped dilute PhD qualifying exams to the point where it is difficult for any student not to pass. The implications of this mass-production of PhDs are dire. Very soon hundreds and, in time, thousands of worthless PhDs will be cranked out. They will train even less competent students. Eventually they will become heads of departments and institutions. When appointed gatekeepers, they will regard more competent individuals as threats to be kept locked out. The degenerative spiral, long evident in any number of Pakistani institutions, will worsen rapidly, and become infinitely more difficult to break. PART II For three decades Pakistani education planners toyed with grand plans to build MITs and Harvards in the country. Nothing materialized. But three years ago the first serious effort to deal with Pakistan's chronically ill universities was finally initiated. Unfortunately, this effort by the Higher Education Commission has now become mired in an intense, growing controversy. The immediate cause centres on the award of fake degrees and the flourishing of substandard higher education institutions, as well as on the HEC's head, Dr. Atta-ur-Rahman, having personally punished the whistle-blower who brought this important issue to his (and the public's) notice. While unpleasant, this controversy is important because it addresses the deeper underlying question of the quality and credibility - rather than just the quantity - of higher education. In the previous article, I explained how badly the existing university system has been broken and how the current university reform strategy is compounding the problem by concentrating on glitzy things like internet access, digital libraries, virtual learning, etc., while ignoring basic problems. Allowing these "reforms" to continue will destroy what little there is today. On the other hand, it will be a tragedy for Pakistan if the current HEC attempts collapse in a heap of dust. So, how to proceed if we are serious in trying to improve our universities? The policy don'ts are clear. Some have already been discussed earlier: stop the creation of worthless new universities; stop funding and rewarding research that really isn't research; stop dishing out useless PhDs; stop playing the numbers game; and stop feeding academic corruption. The do's are far more than can be discussed here. Broadly speaking, they can be divided into two mutually distinct sets. One set must deal with raising the level of general competence of teachers and students by ensuring that they actually have an understanding of the subject they teach or study, and with increasing the amount of research in specific disciplines. Universities everywhere prepare engineers, doctors, economists, business managers, and other professionals needed to fulfil the stringent demands of a modern society. Pakistani universities obviously need to do the same. The second set relates to the broader function of universities - to create thinking minds, pursue research in subjects that are important but are not of immediate economic utility, to create and organize discourses on social and political issues, and to raise the cultural and aesthetic level of society. Whereas the Soviet and Chinese models concentrated exclusively on the first set of goals, western universities - or at least the good ones among them - successfully synthesized both sets and were far superior. It is a mistake to believe that inadequate financial resources have prevented Pakistani universities from achieving the goals of the first set. In fact, the real need is for deep administrative and organizational reforms, together with the strong political will needed to handle the counter-reaction they would inevitably provoke. First, there must be university entrance examinations at the national level to separate individuals who can benefit from higher education from those who cannot. No such system exists in Pakistan. Only local board examinations - where rote memorization and massive cheating are rampant - are used to select students. But, on our borders, both Iran and India have centralized university admissions systems that work very well. Although corruption in India is perhaps as pervasive as in Pakistan, admissions to the IITs have nevertheless retained their integrity and intensely competitive nature over several decades. Honest examinations are presumably also possible in Pakistan, provided extreme care is taken. Having such university entrance examinations would be important for another reason as well - they would set the goal posts for colleges and high schools all over Pakistan. In the US, the Scholastic Aptitude Tests, centrally administered by Princeton, are extremely useful for deciding student aptitude for university education. The "A" level examinations in Britain have similar importance. At the PhD level, if the HEC is at all serious about standards, it should make it mandatory for every Pakistani university to require that a PhD candidate achieve a certain minimum in an international examination such as the GRE. These exams are used by US universities for admission into PhD programmes. Given the state of student and teacher knowledge, and the quantity and quality of research in Pakistani universities, selection through GRE subject tests would have the welcome consequence of cutting down the number enrolled in HEC indigenous PhD programmes from 1,000 per year to a few dozen. The present safeguard of having "foreign experts" evaluate theses is insufficient for a variety of reasons, including the manipulations commonly made in the process of referee selection. Second, we need to test those who would be university teachers. The system has remained broken for so long that written entrance tests for junior faculty, standardized at a central facility, are essential. Without them, universities will continue to hire teachers who freely convey their confusion and ignorance to students. Most teachers today never consult a textbook, choosing to dictate from notes they saved from the time when they were students in the same department. No teacher has ever been fired for demonstrating incompetence in his/her subject. Third, the recruitment of non-permanent foreign faculty, whether of Pakistani origin or otherwise, is essential. Although this country is home to 150 million people, there are perhaps fewer than 20 computer scientists of sufficient calibre who could possibly get tenure-track positions at some B-grade US university. In physics, even if one roped in every competent physicist in the country, it would not be possible to staff even one single good department of physics. As for mathematics: it is impossible to find even five real mathematicians in Pakistan. The social sciences are no better. In this grim situation, it is fortunate that the Higher Education Commission has initiated a programme for hiring foreign faculty with attractive salaries. But the success of this programme is uncertain. Jealously at salary differentials, and a fear that local incompetence will be exposed, have led local teachers and university administrations to block the hiring of faculty from abroad. There is another problem: Pakistan's image as a violent country deters most foreigners from wanting to come and live in Pakistan for any considerable period of time. Therefore, westerners are almost totally absent from the list of those who have applied under the foreign faculty hiring programme. Apart from Pakistani expatriates in the Middle East, the bulk of applicants are Russian speakers from the former Soviet Union countries. One wishes it could be otherwise. It would be a major breakthrough if Indian and Iranian teachers could be brought to Pakistan. Indians, in particular, would find it much easier to adapt to local ways and customs than others and also have smaller salary expectations. The huge pool of strong Indian candidates could be used to Pakistan's advantage - it could pick the best teachers and researchers, and those most likely to make a positive impact on the system. In the present mood of rapprochement, it is hard to think of a more meaningful confidence building measure. Fourth, we need better, more transparent, and accountable ways to recruit vice-chancellors and senior administrators. What we have now is a patronage system that appoints unqualified and unsuitable bureaucrats or generals as vice-chancellors, and that staffs universities with corrupt and incompetent administrators. While a tenure-track system for faculty is currently under discussion and may allow for breaking with the system of life-long jobs independent of performance, there is no corresponding system being contemplated for the top leadership. But without good leadership, and people who can set an example, no institution can be reformed. Finally, it is crucial to bring back on to the campuses meaningful discussions on social, cultural and political issues. To create the culture of civilized debate, student unions must be restored, with elections for student representatives. They will be the next generation of political leaders. Such a step will not be free from problems - religious vigilantes rule many Pakistani campuses although all unions are banned. Extremists would surely try to take advantage of the new opportunities offered once the ban is lifted. Political parties have also been less than responsible. But the reinstatement of unions - subject to their elected leaders making a pledge to abjure violence and the disruption of academic activity - is the only way forward towards creating a university culture on campus. Ultimately, reasonable voices, too, will become heard. To condemn Pakistani students as fundamentally incapable of responsible behaviour amounts to a condemnation of the Pakistani nation itself. If students in our neighbouring countries can successfully study, as well as unionize and engage in larger issues, then surely Pakistan's can do so as well. The task of university reform has not yet seriously begun. Nor can it do so until issues of the purpose and philosophy of higher education and of the goal of the reforms are squarely confronted. It is time to decide whether we are serious about education being something more than merely giving out certificates. Do we want to build institutions for creating knowledge and helping students to be informed, critical, active citizens? Or not?
Posted by: Mudy Jan 4 2005, 12:17 PM
The huge pool of strong Indian candidates could be used to Pakistan's advantage - it could pick the best teachers and researchers, and those most likely to make a positive impact on the system
Send whole JNU and West Bengal universities staff to Pakistan. biggrin.gif
Posted by: Naresh Jan 4 2005, 12:43 PM
QUOTE (Viren @ Jan 4 2005, 09:27 PM)'Pakistanis~won't~opt~to~live~in~India'
Pooh-poohing the report, Pakistan Foreign Office spokesman Masood Khan told reporters in Islamabad that no Pakistani would opt to live in India since "Pakistan is a land of opportunities." (it gives you the opportunity to go and die in Kashmir in which case the Govt of Pakistan will disown you)
Viren, Did a bit of google-ing and now writing the following to the Editor - Jang : The Editor, The News – International, Jang Group. Dear Sir, This has reference to the following your Article in your Internet Edition of today 04-01-2005 : In this respect I draw your attention to the following Article from your Esteemed Publication dated 23 July 2003 : NEW DELHI: India unveiled on Tuesday a tightening of visa rules to ensure that Pakistani nationals, particularly those travelling on the recently restarted bus service, do not "disappear" in the country. Junior Home Minister Swami Chinmayanand said in a written reply to a question in parliament that visas were now being issued only for specific places with the number of locations a Pakistani could visit on a trip brought down to three from 12. He said that the steps were being taken to "ensure that unwanted elements from Pakistan do not disappear after entering India". According to government figures last year, 11,208 Pakistanis were staying in India illegally, of them 8,884 had overstayed and the rest had gone underground. India has said it is trying to identify and deport them. Swami said before visas are issued to any Pakistani, wishing to travel by the resumed bus service, the applicants and their sponsors in India are verified. Also, India is not granting extensions of visitor visas to Pakistanis, he said. Each Pakistani granted a visa is required to report to the district superintendent of police at the first place, he or she visits in India and within 24 hours of arriving at each subsequent destination. Kindly convey the contents of this letter – especially the Article dated 23-07-2003 - from your Esteemed Publication – to Pakistani Foreign Office spokesman Masood Khan Esq., so that he can retract his statement expressing his serious doubts about the veracity of the information and stating that the report was frivolous and concocted. Thanking You, Yours Sincerely Capt. Naresh K. Wadhera
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 4 2005, 06:00 PM
User Pattom posted this on BR...
QUOTE ("Pattom")
I just went and checked the book "Halfway to Freedom" out the library. It's 192 pages long and Chapter IX (11 pages) is entitled 'The Creator of Pakistan.' The website reproduces a large chunk of that chapter word for word, but it has left out some portions that deal more with Jinnah the man, rather than Jinnah the politician. For instance, here's a choice tidbit:
"The second Mrs. Jinnah must have been a spirited and unpredictable young woman. Everything about her was in defiance of tradition. She used make-up at a time when no one but a professional actress dared be caught with a powder puff. While wives of many highly placed Muslims appeared in public only with faces veiled and bodies shrouded in tentlike garments, Mrs. Jinnah went about in such gossamer-thin saris that were, and still are, the talk of the town. "The stories that have been handed down of Jinnah's attitude toward his young bride reveal a curious mixture of devotion and fomality. She spoke complainingly to friends of his custom of signing his love letters 'M.A. Jinnah'. Another custom of his, of which she did not complain, was to leave a hundred rupee note every morning on her pillow. laugh.gif Once when Jinnah was making an important speech opposing the British military budget, his followers packed the hall to hear what they knew would be a brilliant presentation. Jinnah was well launched on his case, every eye focused on him, when Mrs. Jinnah enetered the Distinguished Visitors' Gallery and settled herself in the front row. She extracted a lipstick from her handbag and, leaning far over the railing in her diaphonous garments, began rouging her lips. His friends, I was told by a woman who was there, were 'all so sorry for him.'"
If there is general interest, I could do some more quotes.
ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif ROTFL.gif Old habits die hard..
Posted by: Viren Jan 5 2005, 01:17 PM
QUOTE (Naresh @ Jan 4 2005, 03:43 PM)
This has reference to the following your Article in your Internet Edition of today 04-01-2005 : In this respect I draw your attention to the following Article from your Esteemed Publication dated 23 July 2003 :
Good catch Capt. Wadhera specool.gif It's amusing to see these Paki FO babus with their foot in their mouth. And they'll lie with a straight face. Remember them denying any Paki army regulars in Kargil to rest of world while pasting their pictures on their websites as shahid herrows?
Posted by: Viren Jan 5 2005, 01:20 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 4 2005, 09:00 PM)
"The second Mrs. Jinnah must have been a spirited and unpredictable young woman. Everything about her was in defiance of tradition. She used make-up at a time when no one but a professional actress dared be caught with a powder puff. While wives of many highly placed Muslims appeared in public only with faces veiled and bodies shrouded in tentlike garments, Mrs. Jinnah went about in such gossamer-thin saris that were, and still are, the talk of the town. "The stories that have been handed down of Jinnah's attitude toward his young bride reveal a curious mixture of devotion and fomality. She spoke complainingly to friends of his custom of signing his love letters 'M.A. Jinnah'. Another custom of his, of which she did not complain, was to leave a hundred rupee note every morning on her pillow. laugh.gif Once when Jinnah was making an important speech opposing the British military budget, his followers packed the hall to hear what they knew would be a brilliant presentation. Jinnah was well launched on his case, every eye focused on him, when Mrs. Jinnah enetered the Distinguished Visitors' Gallery and settled herself in the front row. She extracted a lipstick from her handbag and, leaning far over the railing in her diaphonous garments, began rouging her lips. His friends, I was told by a woman who was there, were 'all so sorry for him.'"
The second Mrs Jinnah was a parsi named Ruttee. There was a huge age difference between them (something like 20 to 25 years I forget). Years later, in an ironic replay of history, Muhammed Ali Jinnah was left estranged from his only child, Dina, when she married a non-Muslim (Neville Wadia - Bombay Dyeing Nusli Wadia's father ). Jinnah, by that time, had turned the Qaid-e-Azam of the Muslim nation, and could not accept the marriage. He remonstratedly told Dina, "With so many Muslims around, couldn't you find a single Muslim boy worthy of marrying?" Dina was every inch her father's daughter in her reply, "With so many Muslims around, why did you have to marry my mother?" laugh.gif
Posted by: Naresh Jan 5 2005, 05:36 PM
Viren, Thanks. Meantime you will be pleased to know that my message has been delivered to the Pakistani Foreign Office spokesman Masood Khan Esq. It is surprising that "Google-ing" only gives one Article on this Case of the Missing Pakistanis from the Indian Press but Five from the Pakistani Press. I am sure that the Indian Foreign Office has not even replied to Mr. Masood Khan's Allegations. Must be part of the Secularism India-Pakistani Bhai-Bhai "Strategy".
Posted by: Naresh Jan 5 2005, 05:40 PM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 4 2005, 09:00 PM)
Another custom of his, of which she did not complain, was to leave a hundred rupee note every morning on her pillow. laugh.gif laugh.gif
rajesh-g, In Mumbai's Social Circles it is well known that Rutee - The Second Mrs. Jinnah - always gave Mr. Jinnah Ninety Rupees back as change. ROTFL.gif
Posted by: acharya Jan 5 2005, 07:56 PM
Prithviraj Chauhan was a very handsome rajput king of north India during the latter half of the 12th century. He was born in 1168. He became the king at the age of 11 and ruled North India from his twin capitals, Delhi and Ajmer. He loved a beautiful princess, Sanyogita, the princess of Kanauj. She too loved this handsome king. Sanyogita was born in 1172A.D. Prithiviraj was a romantic and an extremely handsome person. Through several invasions he captured many neighboring kingdoms with his massive army. Samyukta was sexy, lovely and very beautiful Princes. Prithviraj defeated Muhammed Ghori, the ugly and cruel sultan of Afghanistan, during his attack on Prithviraj’s Fort. Ghori's force had only 10,000 soldiers in horses. But Prithviraj's army consists 3,00,000 horses, 30,000 elephants and 30,00,000 warriors. So Prithviraj was able to defeate Ghori this time. Ghori was born in 1149A.D. Soon after this battle Prithviraj eloped with Sanyogita and married her. This handsome king lost himself in his wife's beauty and love. Prithviraj never left his harem and was always having sex with his lovely wife. When Prithvi heard that Ghori was again raiding his country to rape and secure Prithvi's sexy wife, Prithviraj got alarmed and raised the strength of his army tremendously with the allies, Jayachandra his father-in-law and king of Kannouj and Bhima, his brother-in-law and the king of Gujarat, and defeated the Afghan invasion. In this second battle Prithviraj's forces had 5,00,000 horses, 50,000 elephants and 50,00,000 warriors. But Ghori's forces had only 5,000 warriors in horses. Also Prithviraj fort was very strong. So haughty Prithviraj's fort could not be captured. In the night, when the Rajputs were enjoying their double victory with their wives, they were double crossed by the Muslim army of Ghori. Both the Rajputs and their wives were maltreated. The penis of all the 50,00,000 stout hindu rajput soldiers were cut off by the mighty Muslims in the same night. All the stout sexy wives of the rajput soldiers were raped again and again by the Muslims in front of their husbands in that night. All the rajput soldiers were killed by Muslims and their wives killed themselves. In the same night Ghori attacked Prithviraj in his harem. Prithviraj and his wife Sanyogita were having lovely sex in their bed. They were naked even without small piece of cloth. Prithviraj kept his penis inserted into Samyukta's vagina and was pouring hounces of sperm into his wife's vagina and mouth. The Haughty king was strucken with panic when he saw Ghori in his harem. In the mortal combat that followed Prithviraj was diastrously defeated and his penis was cut off by Ghori and was finally killed by Ghori. Soon Queen Sanyogita commited suicide as Ghori raped her again and again. Even the infant child of Prithviraj was killed by the Afghan invader. Prithviraj Chauhan was the last Hindu ruler of Delhi. Thus the whole north India came under the Muslim Rule. The Indians should be beware of Pakistanis. Otherwise they will be killed like their hero Prithviraj. Posted by muhmud, Pakistan
Posted by: Naresh Jan 6 2005, 02:01 AM
QUOTE (acharya @ Jan 6 2005, 08:26 AM)
acharya, History is the Account of the Invader-Conqueror-Winner.
Posted by: Viren Jan 7 2005, 11:43 AM Look forward to reading on internet the transcripts of those Mushy-Aziz phone calls as we did during Kargil days.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 7 2005, 01:23 PM
QUOTE ISLAMABAD, Jan 6: Pakistan has barred over a dozen scientists and staff of its nuclear installation Khan Research Laboratories, who are under investigation for proliferating nuclear technology to other countries, from travelling outside Islamabad without permission. The Interior Ministry has directed through an order to all the under-investigation KRL officials not to travel to any other city without prior permission from the Director-General of Security at the KRL. Fresh orders have been issued to restrict them from moving out of Islamabad, Joint Secretary at the Interior Ministry Tippu Mohabat Khan told the ‘The News’, adding "it is a usual procedural matter under the security of Pakistan Act." The order also included not meeting or exchanging any information with any foreigner. The "suspects" of alleged illicit transfer of nuclear technology have been asked to remain prepared for appearing before the investigation teams, the newspaper said. Asked whether these restrictions were part of the probe into the disgraced top nuclear scientist A Q Khan, who is under house detention, Interior Secretary Tariq Mahmood said, "the investigation into the Dr A Q Khan issue is a long, legal procedure and an ongoing affair." Khan is under detention since early last year after his admission that he proliferated nuclear technology to Libya, Iran and North Korea. He was subsequently pardoned by President Pervez Musharraf and the Pakistan Government rejected demands by International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) to question him. Instead the Pakistan Government offered to provide the results of its own investigations to IAEA. The free movement and telephonic contacts of Khan, banned soon after he was taken into custody for investigation in the beginning of 2004, still remain fully restrained. The only time he was allowed to meet a few close friends was on the eve of Eid-ul-Fitr in November, for which permission was granted by the Supreme Court of Pakistan. Besides A Q Khan, the other "suspects" include Ghulam Yasin Chohan, Saeed Ahmed, Mohammad Atta, Muhammad Fahim, Chaudhry Muhammad Ashraf, Riaz Ahmed, F H Hashmi, Raja Arshad Mehboob, M Shamim-ur-Rehman, Raja Gul Jabbar, Abdul Majeed, Brig (retd) Sajawal Khan and Badar-ul-Islam. All these scientists and officials have spent long periods in detention and have been released pending probe. The Government has already seized the travel documents from all the "suspected" KRL officials. The Government took back the copies of previous official passports to probe into their previous travels abroad. In early December, the authorities concerned had written to families of all those KRL employees to return the passport and its previous copies to the Government. Besides the written orders, a senior KRL official telephoned the families as well to ensure appropriate and timely compliance. Also, family members of all the suspects have been directed to make their passports handy because the Government might need them at some point. The State Bank of Pakistan, in its directive to National and Private Banks, has ordered a thorough probe into the bank account details of "suspects" and their family members, it said adding it has also sought details of all accounts maintained by Khan and his 16 family members. (PTI)
Posted by: Naresh Jan 7 2005, 06:51 PM
ISLAMABAD: Malaysian Interior Ministry officials refused to meet the Pakistan government delegation that went there to hold negotiations on import of manpower from Pakistan. The Senate Standing Committee on Labour, Manpower and Overseas Pakistani was told that the Malaysian government was pursuing its trade interests and giving importance to workers from India instead of Pakistan.
Posted by: Naresh Jan 8 2005, 06:16 AM
Noticed the Second Article Today. Also posting the Article it refers to : When the history of our benighted times comes to be written, Thursday, December 30, 2004 will be remembered as a day of infamy. On that day President Musharraf reneged on his promise and told a docile nation that he had decided not to give up his post as Army Chief and doff his uniform. A year ago, he had given his word of honour on national television that he would relinquish the post of Army Chief and take off his uniform before December 31, 2004. On that date, I believed him and felt that his word was his bond. Like many fellow Pakistanis, I had no doubt in my mind that he would stand to his obligations. Alas! All our hopeful assumptions were soon to be falsified. The MMA had been taken for a ride and had underwritten a fraudulent prospectus when Qazi Hussain Ahmed (or was it Maulana Fazal ur Rehman) put his signature to an infamous agreement which the other side had no intention of carrying out. How wrong can one be? How flawed human judgment can be? It reminds me of an old adage: "Never trust a man who must put on a disguise to establish his authority - be he a judge, a priest or an army officer". So where do we stand today? The days of civilian supremacy are over. A rubber stamp parliament has put the seal of ratification on a fraudulent referendum. To add insult to injury, to sharpen the shame and national humiliation, President Musharraf will, unless fate ordains otherwise, remain the Chief of Army Staff until 2007. An authoritarian regime, far from being temporary, has succeeded in acquiring the mantle of legality and permanence. The country is slowly but surely, settling into a form of government with a democratic façade and a hard inner core of authoritarianism - an iron hand wrapped in a velvet glove. The people of Pakistan did not deserve this government because they had no choice in the matter. An iron curtain has descended upon Pakistan. 57 years after independence, are we really free? Are we masters in our own house. Are our sovereignty and independence untrammelled? The nation has been forced against its will to accept a totalitarian democracy? I am deliberately putting the case with all its bluntness to highlight what is at stake. Today "say Pakistan" and what comes to mind - military coups, sham democracy, an 'elected', all powerful President in uniform, who is also the Chief of Army Staff, a non-sovereign rubber-stamp parliament, a figurehead Prime Minister and a pliant judiciary. Not surprisingly, the latest Freedom in the World Report, prepared by the Human Rights Group, Freedom House, lists Pakistan in the "Not Free" category. It is not included among the countries that grant political rights and civil liberties to their citizens. Pakistan has been named in the list, which also includes Afghanistan, Angola, Algeria, Azerbaijan, Bhutan, Cambodia, Central African Republic, Chad, Egypt, Guinea, Kazakhstan, Mauritania, Krygyzstan, Lebanon, Maldives, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Tajikistan, Togo and Tunisia. Pakistan has not even been included in the list of 117 "Electoral Democracies" in which besides India and Bangladesh, Mongolia, Nigeria, Belize, Benin and even Albania, and Kiribati have been included! This is what the world really thinks of today's Pakistan. Isn't it ironical that while authoritarian governments are collapsing all around us and the world has gotten better in many ways, Pakistan, which started as a modern, progressive, democratic state 57 years ago, is drifting away from the democratic path and sliding into a thinly veiled military dictatorship. The engine of history is moving Pakistan backwards. Our fledgling democracy may, after all, turn out to have been a historical accident and a parenthesis that is closing before our eyes. The irony is that all this is happening to us in a democratic age. Today there are no longer any respectable alternatives to democracy. Today the whole world is bent on being democratic. Every nation and every individual in the present day world feels bound to lay claim to being democratic. To disclaim this would be tantamount to confessing that one was wilfully putting oneself outside the pale of civilisation and was deliberately choosing to sit in utter darkness. That is why after World War II, even the USSR set up semi-independent satellite governments in Eastern Europe and designated them as "peoples democracies". In Pakistan, a Cromwellian-type regime, headed by General Musharraf, in which the army has ousted the politicians and has replaced them by Lieutenant Generals, insists that it too is democratic! The factual position belies this assertion. 57 years after independence, General Musharraf has imposed a disjointed, lopsided, topsy-turvy, hybrid political system - a non-sovereign rubber stamp parliament, a General in uniform masquerading as President, and a figurehead Prime Minister - he calls pure democracy. People call it sham or totalitarian democracy. Ostensibly, we have all the trappings of democracy - elections, National and Provincial Assemblies, political parties, elected governments etc. but all these play no role in determining major policy decisions, and have for all practical purposes become irrelevant. Today some countries in the world are illiberal democracies. Others are liberal autocracies. Pakistan is neither liberal nor democratic. Democracy means first and foremost, the rule of the people. The people of Pakistan had no say in the election of their President. They were denied the right to elect their President in accordance with the procedure laid down in the Constitution. Elections, open, free and fair are the essence of democracy, the inescapable sine qua non. Today elections are rigged. Ballot boxes are tampered with. Results are manipulated. No wonder, people have lost faith in the sanctity of the ballot box and the independence of the Election Commission and the superior judiciary. What does it mean to live in a sham and a totalitarian democracy? What happens to a people who don't feel that their opinions matter at all? A general languor has seized the nation. People have just stopped trying; they have stopped caring? They have become passive. They let the government do as it pleases. Either way, the thinking goes, the government gets its way. If they do express an opinion, disagree or protest loudly, the consequences can be very unpleasant as was witnessed by the press at the Islamabad Airport not long ago. The merciless, physical beating of PPP workers was only the first sip of the cup, a foretaste of what is to follow in the days to come. No wonder, people don't try to right a wrong. They let the government make the decisions, even if it runs against the common good. Today, fear is deeply ingrained in the psyche of the people of Pakistan. There is fear to speak, fear to write, fear to read, or even hear truth. Fear hangs in the air. The good news is that history is against General Musharraf. He is fighting both history and experience. The days of military rule, direct or indirect, with or without a civilian façade, are gone. Politics and military do not mix. There can be no politics under military rule. There can be no freedom under military rule. There can be no democracy under military rule. A democratic General? The idea sounds preposterous, like a democratic Ayatullah, a black Ku Klux Klansman, a Jewish Nazi or an intellectual member of the Bush family. General Musharraf has broken his pledge. He has not levelled with the people of Pakistan. His five-year rule has been a failure. Now is the time to hold him to account. "With primacy in power", Churchill once said, "is also joined an awe-inspiring accountability". How can we be so comatose as a nation when all our political institutions are crumbling before our eyes? What is it that has robbed us of our freedom of action, our freedom to speak our mind, our freedom to stand up straight? Unfortunately, we have such a heavy load on our back. How can we straighten up? Too long have we been passive spectators of events. Today our fate is in our hands, but soon it may pass beyond control. "If we do not speak, who will speak? If we do not act who will act"? A shout in the mountains has been known to start an avalanche. We must call things by their names and shout louder. A single independent voice, a voice that has credibility as the voice of the anger of the people and its will to be free, can break through the conspiracy of silence, the atmosphere of fear, and the solitude of feeling politically impotent. Let Pakistan be Pakistan again. Let it be the dream it used to be - a dream that is almost dead today. President Musharraf is taking Pakistan to a perilous place. His calls to stay the course are fatuous. The course he is on leads downhill. I am reminded of some lines from an unknown writer about a railway accident: Who is in charge of the clattering train, And the pace is hot, and the points are near, And Sleep has deadened the driver's ear, And the signals flash through the night in vain, For Death is in charge of the clattering train. Ultimately, it is the people who hold Pakistan's destiny in their hands. "To march at their head and lead them? Or to stand opposite them and oppose them"? That is the question. Every Pakistani is freeOh! Really? – Since When? to choose among these two, but by force of circumstances you are fated to make the choice quickly. Bureaucrats are not supposed to be emotional about attributes like democracy and patriotism. Even after they retire, the habit of being blasé becomes so ingrained that it cannot be got rid of. But when the rare one does pose as emotional through the use of graphic English he invariably overdoes the role. Strangely, he also forgets his own past. This is the problem of Mr Roedad Khan who now writes for the newspapers, and is described by them as a former Secretary-General of the Ministry of Interior. We all know what the ministry has been doing to democrats and patriots in the days of so-called people’s governments. In an article published in The Nation of January 7, and captioned by him “Another day of infamy,” Mr Khan has become extra maudlin about the 30th of December, the day when President Pervez Musharraf took the nation into confidence why he was not shedding his military status. In fact, on reading his language one shouldn’t be surprised if, instead of the people coming out on the streets to protest the decision, he alone decides to run around shouting full-throated slogans at his advanced age. Readers are entitled to expect from the author of a book on Pakistan’s political history that he would weigh the pros and cons of the President’s decision and discuss them dispassionately. But apparently Mr Roedad Khan is no longer the cool-headed bureaucrat programmed by conditions of service to be unsentimental and objective. Mr Khan has taken a sudden aversion to looking at Pakistan’s head of state in military uniform, when earlier he had done so three times – Field Marshal Ayub for 11 years, General Yahya Khan for three years and General Ziaul Haq again for 11 years – during his almost 40 years of service as an old CSP. He had not only looked at them admiringly but also carried out their orders without demur as a loyal senior civil servant. These orders were certainly not in pursuance of the principles of democracy and representative government. Maybe he saw in them some glimmer of democracy that no one else in the whole world was able to perceive. Because of his age and seniority and his ability to write for the press with a punch, Roedad Khan deserves all respect. One would therefore hate to use an expression for his turnabout that amounts to hitting below the belt, but, regretfully, the Urdu adage about the cat eating 900 mice and then sanctimoniously going for Hajj seems to fit him nicely. The trouble with such people is that even if they write about present political events with a modicum of truth, but if their views are in complete negation of their past performance and attitude towards life and politics, it sounds hollow and contrived. How facile it is to turn democratic and liberal, and also tolerant of all political schools of thought, on laying down the burden of office as a government servant, when many times during service one must have subscribed to what are known as “dirty tricks.” These dirty tricks have been resorted to by all political regimes in Pakistan against their opponents. Is it a coincidence in this case that all such dirty tricks are engineered and implemented by the agencies and minions operating under the Ministry of Interior? Maybe these agencies and minions kept the Secretary General in the dark about them – if you can believe that! One would now like to take back one’s readers to the issue of another English daily dated July 31, 1999 in which Mr Roedad Khan wrote about July 4 in an article similarly captioned as “Another day of infamy.” Today he waxes eloquent against army rule and the infiltration of the armed forces into the government, into politics, into parliamentary affairs and into every sphere of national life. It is unbelievable this is what he wrote about that date: “On July 4, the US was given a clear understanding by our Prime Minister (Mian Nawaz Sharif) that there will be a unilateral withdrawal from Kargil by those forces, i.e. the mujahideen, who had crossed the LoC from the Pakistan side and that concrete steps would be taken by Pakistan alone for the restoration of the LoC in accordance with the Simla agreement.” He wrote correctly that time that it was a day of infamy when he said, “Hundreds of our freedom fighters, the flower of our nation, have fallen on the Kargil heights…. What a terrible burden of guilt our rulers bear! One day this treachery will be avenged and out of all this would come the politics of the future.” His admiration for the army at that time knew no bounds and he was obliged to cry out: “The irony is that with the collapse of all civil institutions, it is the armed forces, and armed forces alone, which are preventing the country from disintegration.” What do you say to that! In his usual flamboyant style Mr Roedad Khan heaped obloquy on the political government of Nawaz Sharif and those who came before him, and asked in despair, “Is this our destiny that we are always going to be ruled by a confederacy of robbers, practitioners of the art of grand larceny who loot and plunder in broad daylight? … Who will light a candle in the gloom of our morale? Who has a passion burning within him that will set our nation alight?” One is inclined to pity poor Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto! In his latest “Another day of infamy,” the retired Secretary General, Interior, has conveniently forgotten to mention the weighty reasons that obliged President Pervez Musharraf to take the decision that Mr Khan finds hateful and which has invited this barrage of criticism aimed at the General. That can hardly be called fair. As stated earlier, if he had analysed the decision coolly and calmly, his arguments might have carried conviction. But sadly, he only knows how to use his mastery of English rhetoric to be impulsive and passionate. The result is that his language is impressive but his logic is conspicuous by its absence. The writer is Minister of State for Overseas Pakistanis Division and Central Information Secretary, PML and is a “Certified Chumcha” of “I da man – Musharraf” Well Done Pakistanis – in General (pun intended) – and Musharraf in Particular.
Posted by: Naresh Jan 8 2005, 06:21 PM GILGIT: Curfew has been imposed in Gilgit city after 15 people including Director Health Services Northern areas, guard and a driver of a prominent Shia leader, Agha Syed Zia ud Din Rizvi and a terrorist were shot dead and eight people critically injured in several firing incidents here Saturday. The deadly riots erupted after a terrorist attack on a prominent Shia leader's vehicle. Qaid-e-Millat Imamia, Agha Syed Ali Rizvi alongwith his driver and guard on Saturday noon was about to take turn from River view road to Punial road when some unknown attackers who were laying ambush opened fire with automatic weapons on his vehicle injuring all the people seated therein. Driver Abbas and guard Hussain Akbar succumbed to injuries. One passer by and attacker were also killed. The news of incident spread like wildfire in the city. Hundreds of enraged people came out on the roads. The violent mob set ablaze dozens of private and government vehicles parked outside office of chief secretary and ransacked the government offices. Several government offices building including civil secretariat, PWD headquarters and planning and development were set on fire. Eight people including Akhtar Khattak, PA to home secretary northern areas are reported to have been injured in these riots. Curfew has been clamped in the city to control the situation in the city. Shooting of every one if found violating curfew restrictions has been ordered. The government employees were forced to flee from their offices by leaving them open. The city is tense. Agha Zia ud Din Rizvi and his guard who were admitted to civil hospital are stated to be in precarious condition. Army has taken the control of hospital. Home secretary Northern areas Jamil Ahmad termed the attack on Agha Zia ud Din Rizvi as terrorist act in which one attacker was also killed. Two gunmen of Agha Zia were also gunned down. Nine more people have also been killed in different incidents, he informed. He warned that terrorists want to escalate the situation. They are outsiders, he added. This is terror act rather than a sectarian motivated incident. The man who was killed seemed to be a terrorist and he does not hail from Gilgit, home secretary stated.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 10 2005, 07:11 PM
One story that Dixit liked to narrate was about President Zia-ul Haq of Pakistan, who visited Sri Lanka when Dixit was the high commissioner there. Zia had met Ambassador S K Singh in Islamabad and High Commissioner I S Chadha in Dacca before meeting Dixit in Colombo, all of whom were just five feet something tall. When Zia mentioned it, Dixit said this was a deliberate policy as India did not want to project a big brother image in its neighbourhood.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 11 2005, 05:30 PM
India will respond if Pak goes to WB Pioneer New Delhi Observing that more talks on the Baglihar hydro power project in Jammu and Kashmir could lead to "further convergence", India on Tuesday said it would respond "appropriately" if Pakistan chose to approach the World Bank to resolve differences over it.
Posted by: Naresh Jan 12 2005, 08:38 AM Religious leaders have hit out at a ban on flags at a Muslim festival Police claim waving flags during the Eid-ul-Adha celebrations in Southall, west London, on 21 and 22 January could provoke violence and racial tensions. The Met said anyone who persisted in ignoring the ban could be arrested for breaching the peace. Sadiq Khan, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said he failed to see "how the carrying of national flags causes anti-social behaviour". 'Faith celebrations' Mr Khan, chairman of the council's legal affairs committee, said: "This is the first time I can recall someone being prohibited from waving a national flag in a public place, other than a sports occasion, in the mainland UK. "I can't see the legal justification for this. Whether you agree or disagree with the way people celebrate a festival they are not doing anything against the law." Ealing police, who made the request for people not to take flags, said the celebrations were faith celebrations and therefore had no link to any national flag. A police spokesman said that in the past waving flags has "sometimes led to the incitement of violence, racial tension and breaches of peace between groups in the Southall area". "Local community representatives have been consulted on our policing strategy. They fully support our tackling of anti-social behaviour to help preserve the dignity of this religious occasion," he said. This is definitely “Anti-Paki” as one only sees “British Born” British Citizens of Pakistani descent waving the Flag of the Land of the Impure.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 12 2005, 08:48 AM
This is definitely “Anti-Paki” as one only sees “British Born” British Citizens of Pakistani descent waving the Flag of the Land of the Impure.
Even Indian and Bangladesh muslims join them.
Posted by: vishnua Jan 12 2005, 09:42 AM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Jan 12 2005, 09:18 PM)
This is definitely “Anti-Paki” as one only sees “British Born” British Citizens of Pakistani descent waving the Flag of the Land of the Impure.
Even Indian and Bangladesh muslims join them.
The reason could be that they still it is land of pure . Btw please do not mispresent pakistan it is not land of impure it is land of puke for indians for afghans it is where they go for toilet...
Posted by: Naresh Jan 12 2005, 01:32 PM KARACHI - A battle lasting several hours on Tuesday between Pakistani security forces and insurgent tribals in Balochistan province's Sui region, famous for its natural-gas reserves, is likely to turn into a full-scale insurgency as all the powerful oligarchs of Baloch society support this insurgency. Although President General Pervez Musharraf, speaking on a local television channel, gave a clear warning of a major military operation in retaliation, this is likely only to lead to further troubles. According to officials, eight paramilitary security men were killed and four were seriously wounded on Tuesday night when armed tribesmen attacked the Sui gas fields, the biggest in Pakistan. Authorities say the tribesmen want more royalties from the gas taken from their lands. Heavy fire was exchanged, during which Bugti tribals, numbering about 10,000, used rocket launchers, mortars and automatic weapons. The armed men seized control of some buildings in Sui field for several hours, oil managers said. Damage to a compressor interrupted the gas flow to customers in Punjab and Sindh provinces. In a press release issued late Tuesday, Pakistan Petroleum Ltd announced the suspension of gas supplies. Behind the insurgency Insurgency in the region in the past has been attributed to the Baloch Liberation Army (BLA). Its name cropped up in the 1980s as a pro-Moscow underground militant organization committed to the establishment of an independent greater Balochistan state comprising all Baloch lands in Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. However, in the past few years the BLA's activities have been restricted to firing rockets into Quetta army cantonment. The reason for this extremely low profile is the group's unpopularity among the masses. In the mid-1980s, a few dozen students of the Baloch Student Organization carried out terror actions under the BLA tag. However, later on a very small faction with strong pro-Moscow leanings used this platform to raise the call for a separate Baloch state. Balochistan is geographically the largest of Pakistan's provinces, but population-wise it is the smallest. However, the province is endowed with some of the world's richest reserves of natural energy (gas, oil, coal); minerals (gold, copper), and it has strategic mountainous borders and passes adjoining Iran and Afghanistan on the west and miles of precious maritime coast stretching from the Persian Gulf to the Arabian Sea in the south. In the last week of December, the federal government granted four petroleum-exploration licenses, two jointly to Oil & Gas Development Co (OGDC) and Mari Gas Co, and two exclusively to OGDC. The two companies plan to invest US$29.32 million initially, with a further investment of $16.5 million if needed, in the four blocks. The Baloch regions of the province can be divided into three sub-regions, each with its own dynamics, culture and social conditions: The belt comprising Hub, Lasbella and Khizdar is heavily influenced by the cosmopolitan city of Karachi, which is just a 45-minute drive away. Hub is heavily industrialized, but while most industries are owned by Karachiites, the labor force is local, and industrialization has brought major changes in their lifestyle. This influence goes up to Khizdar, where except for a few pockets, people by and large have moved away from the influence of tribal leaders. Rather than nationalist parties, the ruling Pakistan Muslim League and the Pakistan People's Party led by Benazir Bhutto are the two main popular forces. The coastal belt comprising Makran and Gwadar, where foreign influences (non-Baloch) have always been strong. For instance, in some areas the rulers in the past were of Iranian descent. Many powerful tribes migrated here from Sindh. The region is characterized by powerful underworld mafias that rule the sea and dominate trafficking activities, ranging from gold to narcotics. The political trends are mixed: the religious Jamiat-i-Ulema-i-Islam led by Maulana Fazlur Rehman; the nationalist Jamhori Watan Party; the Balochistan National Front; the Pakistan People's Party and the ruling Pakistan Muslim League all have their separate pockets of influence. However, the real power lies with the big-wigs of the coastal mafia, although in recent times their influence has been curbed to some extent, notably after the killing of two Chinese workers last year. Gwadar is being turned into a modern port city, with the help of China, and already real-estate prices have skyrocketed. Sites have been earmarked and purchased for business centers, warehouses, factories and international hotel franchises. In private conversations, Baloch tribal leaders express their doubts over urbanization as they fear another Karachi or Hub will emerge, which, among other things, will reduce the influence of the tribal leaders. Eastern Balochistan is completely tribal, and chiefs such as Nawab Khair Bux Mari and Nawab Akbar Bugti are the main movers and shakers. This region is the nucleus of the insurgency. Eastern Balochistan is notorious for its lawlessness, and the writ of the state is weak in the face of the tribal networks that have been established. The Sui gas fields are situated in the areas dominated by Nawab Akbar Bugti, while Kohlu is Nawab Khair Bux Mari's domain. Players in the game It is in eastern Balochistan, though, where the real problems lie. Here, Sardar Attaullah Khan Mengal, Nawab Akbar Bugti and Nawab Khair Bux Mari are lined up on one side against Pakistan's military on the other. During the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s, which saw anti-US Islamic Iran, pro-Moscow Afghanistan and non-aligned but clearly Soviet sympathizer India on the one side, Pakistan was always reckoned by the former USSR as the strongest US link in the region, but with Balochistan as its Achilles' heel. The pro-Soviet sentiments of Sardar Attaullah, Nawab Bugti and Nawab Mari played an important role in influencing Balochistan as anti-US in a heavily pro-US Pakistan. Sardar Attaullah played an important role in instigating an armed rebellion with Nawab Bugti and Nawab Mari in the mid-1970s, during the administration of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto. It was crushed with brute military force. All three powerful tribal chiefs went into exile. The most significant exile was that of Mari, who went to Afghanistan, along with about 12,000 of his men. They established themselves in Kandahar and Hilmand and were courted by the communist government in Kabul and given military training. Mari's son, Nawabzada Balaach Mari, was sent to Moscow, where he graduated as an electronics engineer. After the fall of the communist government in Kabul in the early 1990s, the Mari tribes returned to their homes, but they retained their connections with the pro-Moscow world and sympathizers in India. Today, Balaach Mari and his thousands of followers are the real vanguard of the insurgency and carry the ideological torch. The most dangerous region in eastern Balochistan is Kohlu, where, in more than 30 camps, hundreds of Mari tribals are engaged in military training and instruction in guerrilla warfare. Special study circles have been established under Balaach Mari's supervision to indoctrinate Baloch youths with separatist (Baloch) ideology and the two-nation theory (the basis on which British India was partitioned in 1947 to create Muslim-dominated Pakistan and Hindu India). Nawab Akbar Bugti is viewed as a "moderate" and has apparently dissociated himself from any insurgency, yet he is pulling the strings behind 10,000 powerful insurgent tribals in Dera Bugti and Sui. While Sardar Attaullah Khan Mengal speaks for the rights of Balochistan on the political forum, he does not actively command a strong rebellious youth in his domain of Wad (Khizdar). The central government reacts On Tuesday night, speaking on a local private channel, Musharraf warned insurgents of a military operation and said that this was not the 1970s when they could hide in the mountains. "They will be struck with weapons and they will not know what has happened to them." Later, on another channel, Nawabzada Balaach warned the government, "I have just heard Musharraf threatening us. I tell him, it is not the 1970s either, that through military force they can suppress us. They should learn a lesson from Iraq where the world-best US army has failed to overwhelm the local resistance." Behind Musharraf's threats, though, and even though the tribals have seriously challenged state writ, the government is extremely hesitant to use the force it used in the South Waziristan tribal area last year to flush out foreign fighters, for several reasons: Musharraf is already being pushed to the wall by his military commanders on several issues, especially in dealing with India and his pro-US stance. On the issue of Musharraf reneging on an earlier pledge to shed his uniform at the end of last year, political forces are already ganging up against him. With regard to the South Waziristan operations, liberal forces such as the Pakistan People's Party adopted a silent stance, but on Balochistan all political parties can be expected to vent their disapproval. In such an overall negative environment, the chances of a counter-military coup against Musharraf increase. Musharraf came to power in a 1999 coup. Despite all of this, Musharraf appears to have little option other than military force, the consequences be damned.
Posted by: Viren Jan 12 2005, 01:43 PM Tahira Mazhar Ali (Ed. note: This article was a speech given by the author at the Second Amiya & B.G. Rao Memorial Lecture on 50 Years of the State and Human Rights in South Asia organised by Champa in India in December 1997.)
Posted by: Mudy Jan 12 2005, 04:14 PM
Finally,people are having field day in Balochistan. specool.gif
Posted by: Naresh Jan 12 2005, 04:48 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Jan 12 2005, 09:18 PM)
Even Indian and Bangladesh muslims join them.
Mudy, Yes indeed the Bongs and Indian Muslims do join them but the "Phlag" waved is the "Plag" of the Land of the Impure
Posted by: Naresh Jan 12 2005, 04:53 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Jan 13 2005, 04:44 AM)
Finally,people are having field day in Balochistan. specool.gif Flush.gif
QUETTA: More than 2,500 paramilitary forces and regular troops took control of Sui after tribesmen fired hundreds of rockets, blowing up a gas pipeline and triggering a battle that left eight people dead, officials said on Wednesday.
With any luck it might turn into another “Phreedom Movement” clap.gif
Posted by: Naresh Jan 12 2005, 05:00 PM
Even though the Indian Prime Minister categorically states that Kashmir is an integral part of Bharat and there can be no alteration in the boundaries, we keep entreating New Delhi kindly to show some flexibility. We slept when India planned and initiated the construction of a huge dam on Chanab river and only now have taken up the matter for discussion when it is nearing completion. It was remarkable how Capt. Bharat Verma, editor of the Indian Defence Journal spoke on the subject, the other night, on ARYONE TV channel while answering Shahid Masud’s questions. He not only justified the construction of the project, he, ingeniously also, built arguments for a re-negotiation of the Indus Basin Treaty. He put forward the plea that Kashmiris needed more water. He went to the length of saying that some of the territory belonging to Pakistan may have to be recovered. At the same time he described Pakistan as an occupied country, a part of which was under American occupation (referring to bases) and had the temerity to taunt ROTFL.gif Shahid Masud and Hamid Gul about the state of affairs in Pakistan where a General had to address the nation for 50 minutes to establish that he was a legitimate head of the state. You talk of India agreeing to an oil pipeline from Iran across Pakistan territory, he said. Can you guaranty its safety when your own gas pipeline is blasted every now and then.* clap.gif With all this sweet talk, he went on to advise Pakistan to open its borders and its TV channels to people-friendly exchanges with more of messengers of peace and shanti visiting each other frequently. As for Kashmir, wait a few years, he said and the problem will stand resolved.
*Capt. Bharat Verma is the first Indian on record to question the Safety of a Natural Gas Pipe Line passing through the Land of the Impure. Well Done Sir thumbup.gif
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 12 2005, 06:12 PM Oh dear ! The humiliation.. laugh.gif
Posted by: Viren Jan 13 2005, 08:51 AM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 12 2005, 09:12 PM) Oh dear ! The humiliation.. laugh.gif
Interesting to note that D-Don is not listed in the list despite the fact just this week there were news reports of him moving back to Karachi (or was it Clifton) dry.gif Doesn't USD has him on the official list of terrorists?
Posted by: Viren Jan 13 2005, 03:33 PM
Here's one from Durga Das' book 'From Curzon to Nehru' - for those who don't know, Durga Das was a leading scribe/editor from 1920s to late 60s. In the chapter 'India and US' he writes about an incident from early 60s. Seems TSP was pretty peeved when Kennedy appointed a very close friend and a confidant Ken Galbraith as US ambassador in Delhi. Even back then TSPs always were for equal equal sh!t. They throw a fit so the State Dept requested Jaqueline (spelling) Kenndy to impress upon the TSPakis during the upcoming trip as to how close the current US Ambassador to TSP was with the Kennedys. At a banquet in TSP capital in front of the top military brass, the RAPEs and the sundry etc, the First Lady introduces the local US ambassador as a close friend of Kennedys who's always been a friend, who often sails with Kenndy at Hainnisport, who frequents as a guest at Linclon bedroom in White House yada yada - you get the idea. The problem was that her Ambassdor wasn't kept in the loop (nothing new here wink.gif ) so he innocently walks to the poidum and goes "Mrs Kennedy is just joking, I've never met the President personally, been to White House just once and only time I've met President Kenndy and shaken his hands was during a banquet in DC where I was one of the 100 other guests" laugh.gif Oh and another one... President Johnson to TSP Dictator Ayub - "You have a choice to bad mouth me and I have a choice to not help you"
Posted by: Naresh Jan 14 2005, 08:00 AM
Pakistan user posted image Afghanistan's deposed clerics in exile BOR JAN, a wispy-bearded Afghan, whipped a scrap of paper from a pocket of his baggy trousers. “Find any Muslims who are friends of the infidel and kill them,” he read aloud. Across the nearby border with Afghanistan, America has dispatched soldiers to deter Mr Jan and his Taliban fellows from carrying out their orders. But in Quetta, capital of Baluchistan, a sprawling western province, Mr Jan could at least rant at his leisure. Nothing irks America's men in Afghanistan more than their enemy's propensity to flee into Pakistan, there to rest and re-arm, seemingly at will. Although—at the top level, at least—a firm American ally since the September 11th attacks, Pakistan refuses to allow American boots on its soil. It has maintained that it can deal with any Taliban seeking refuge in its territory—which after all was where the movement was begun. The Taliban were formed in the early 1990s, by clerics of the ferociously devout Pushtun, a tribe of both Pakistan and Afghanistan. The black-turbaned clerics' aim was to end Afghanistan's civil war, which they achieved with help from Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) agency. By 1996, the Taliban had seized Kabul. In 2001, with America's bombers circling Afghanistan, Pakistan abruptly abandoned its former friends and professed itself an enemy of terror. But quite how abandoned were they really? Of the thousands of Taliban members who fled into Pakistan from the bombing and subsequent occupation of Afghanistan, no notable individual was arrested. Quetta's deputy police chief, Muhammad Riaz, explains this with a shrug: “You cannot arrest everyone wearing a turban.” No, but you might arrest one or two. A Taliban commander captured in Afghanistan last year said he was travelling on his way back from a war council in Quetta, where he had collected a cache of ammunition for the insurrection back home. His satellite telephone showed evidence of contact with several other Taliban leaders; all of them had Pakistani telephone numbers. Pakistan received America's plaudits—and cash—last year for its continuing campaign against terrorists. Having survived two assassination attempts at the end of 2003, Pervez Musharraf, the country's leader, has been cracking down on al-Qaeda's remnants, resulting in several important captures and kills. He has also waged a small war in the tribal area of Waziristan, pitting 70,000 soldiers against tribesmen he accuses of sheltering foreign Islamic militant fighters. According to official figures, the army has killed 300 militants in Waziristan, more than 100 of them foreigners, and suffered over 170 casualties. Against the Taliban, however, Pakistan is playing a murkier sort of game. In Quetta, Mr Jan is not alone in boasting openly of his Taliban membership. Many young militants were recruited for the movement in the city's teeming mosques and Islamic schools; in Arabic, taliban means students. In the city's bazaars, a rich array of jihadi paraphernalia is on display. From the Talib Speeches Centre, audiotaped racist bilge can be acquired for 50 cents. A hawker sells posters celebrating the face of Osama bin Laden, and bumper stickers recommending the delights of martyrdom. What do such displays mean? Not, perhaps, that the Taliban are thriving still. In October, they failed to disrupt Afghanistan's first democratic elections in a quarter of a century, as they had threatened. Afghanistan's new government has since offered an amnesty to Taliban foot-soldiers. But their radical mentors, still supported by sympathisers within the Pakistani establishment, will take more than a bombing campaign to root out.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 14 2005, 11:43 AM
General Musharraf hypocritically warned the BNA but remained silent about the barbaric crime committed by the young captain and his subordinates. This incidence, on one side tells how men in khaki are above the law and on the other it shows the helplessness of civil society in Pakistan. The incident at Sui is not the first one in which criminal in khaki are involved their such stories circulate town to town in Pakistan. According to Hamoodur Rehman report the people of rank of general run brothel houses in various cities of Pakistan. In another press conference a reporter asked general Musharraf about the behavior of another general whose men picked up a hawaldar from a police station in Lahore and had beaten him for asking the general’s driver to remove taint from his car windows. General Musharraf told the reporter that he would not have acted any way different than the other general.
Posted by: Naresh Jan 15 2005, 09:13 AM
QUETTA - The Federal Government has decided to take over the whole troubled town of Sui and deploy regular troops to protect gas installations besides launching operation against those involved in the week-long attacks on key installations, reliable sources said on Friday.
In other words the Army has taken over
ARMYMEN BEING IMPLICATED IN SUI INCIDENT: Inter Service Public Relations spokesman Maj- Gen Shaukat Sultan said on Friday that army personnel were being implicated in Sui incident for political gains, however if any armyman is found involved in the incident he would not be spared. ARD had alleged that five army personnel including an army officer committed gangrape of a lady doctor in Sui.
I suppose this means that the “affected lady doctor’s” complaint is a figment of her imagination.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 17 2005, 11:17 AM
Naresh here is another report
Sunday, January 16, 2005 · Last updated 8:15 p.m. PT Gas shortage looms after Pakistan attacks By ZARAR KHAN ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER KARACHI, Pakistan -- Pakistanis were facing gas shortages on Sunday following a wave of rocket attacks blamed on ethnic militants against pipelines and other natural gas facilities in a remote southern region, officials said. Thousands of paramilitary and regular troops have been deployed as guards and to hunt for the attackers, who launched a barrage of hundreds of rockets on Tuesday, hitting the state-run gas plant at Sui in Baluchistan province, the principal source of natural gas for Pakistan's 150 million people. Nearly a week of attacks on gas facilities left at least eight civilians and soldiers dead and 35 others wounded, and raised expectation that the military - already battling al-Qaida militants along its northwestern border with Afghanistan - could launch a major operation in Baluchistan as well. Tribesmen demanding more gas royalties and jobs for locals often target security forces and the Sui gas facilities, but the attacks dramatically intensified amid anger over the alleged gang-rape of a female doctor earlier this month at a hospital owned by a state gas company. The Baluchistan Liberation Force, a little-known nationalist group, claimed responsibility for the rocket attacks. The government says it was investigating the rape allegation. Authorities were forced to close one of the main plants at Sui, which lies about 300 miles northeast of the country's largest city, Karachi. Gas company officials said that households and industrial facilities in different parts of Pakistan were affected, particularly in southern Sindh province, of which Karachi is the capital. "Definitely, millions of domestic consumers are facing shortage of gas," Inyat Ullah, a spokesman for the Sui Southern Gas Company which supplies Sindh, told The Associated Press. He said supplies were suspended to dozens of industrial units, including power generators, and textile and cement factories. Ali Hussain Quereshi, chief engineer at Sui Northern Gas Company, said supplies also had been cut to dozens of industrial users in eastern Punjab province, while domestic consumers were facing gas shortages because of low gas pressure. Authorities say engineers are working day and night to repair the plant at Sui but that it will take about a week to restore supplies.
Posted by: Naresh Jan 17 2005, 03:45 PM
Mudy, Thanks for the above. The following is even worse : ISLAMABAD: Managing Director of Sui Southern Gas Company (SSGC), Rasheed Loon, said restoration work for Sui gas from gas plant is confronted with delay as following the quite critical situation at the repairing work site the SSGC employees and engineers have refused to continue the work. The refusal by the SSGC workers pushed by the life-risking atmosphere in the area could drag out the gas restoration as long as two months, he told. Talking to Geo TV after returning from his official visit to Qatar, he informed that Sporadic incidents of firing and rocket-attacks were going on for the last around two years which had aggravated now to an threatening extent. If any rocked had been fired onto any gas pipeline during gas supply, there could have been irreversible loss, he feared. He told: “The government has ever tried to meet their legal demands in one or another way. Despite the fact the local attackers never abstained from causing huge loses to the gas supply pipeline time to time.” He said that due to the gas supply suspension the country was facing economic losses worth rupees 14 corer – SHOULD BE CRORES – (Rs. 140 Million = USD 2,333,333 PER DAY) and the SSGC company rupees 10 corer everyday respectively, excluding the financial losses to emanate from cancellation of the gas supply to country’s industrials. He unveiled as to the company had committed to the government for not suspending the gas supply to fertilizer companies. Against it, the present tense situation of the gas supply it would not be able to continue with its commitment, which means a massive loss to the wheat crops. The Land of the Impure will make up its losses by begging at UNCLE’S FEET. It is important to consider what would be the losses to the Indian Economy if the Iran-India Pipe Line via the Land of the Impure is disrupted for TWO MONTHS.
Posted by: Mudy Jan 17 2005, 04:25 PM
It is important to consider what would be the losses to the Indian Economy if the Iran-India Pipe Line via the Land of the Impure is disrupted for TWO MONTHS.
New fools sitting in center still wants to continue with Iran-India-Jihadi pipeline. mad.gif
Posted by: Naresh Jan 17 2005, 05:28 PM
QUOTE (Mudy @ Jan 18 2005, 04:55 AM)
New fools sitting in center still wants to continue with Iran-India-Jihadi pipeline. mad.gif
Mudy, Please do write to the following two Gentlemen : DR. R. K. PACHAURI, DIRECTOR GENERAL T E R I (THE ENERGY RESEARCH INSTITUTE) NEW DELHI E- MAIL ADDRESS : COPY : DISTINGUISHED FELLOW R. K. BATRA E- MAIL ADDRESS : Whilst the Pakistani Additional Secretary – Ministry of Petroleum – states that the Annual Transit Dues should be about USD 70 Million or so, Indian spokespersons, Dr. Pachauri etc. keep repeating the figure of USD 500 to 800 Million. In fact I would request all our members to write to these two Gentlemen “Happy Writing” P. S. Tried writing to Mani Shankar Iyer but his “Lok Sabha” E-Mail Address isn’t working
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 05:31 PM
Naresh, Would you like to write an article covering various aspects of this pipeline ? It will make writing letters easier. We can even forward the link and get better publicity ?
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 11:44 PM
Lokpal Sethi/ Jaipur Thousands of Pakistani Hindus, living in India for the past several years are the happiest people, as their wait for Indian citizenship is practically over. The district collectors of the border districts of Barmer and Jaisalmer, Jodhpur, Bikaner, Ganganagar and Hanumangarh have started special camps to complete the formalities to hand over documents of Indian citizenship. So far, about 15 such persons have already been granted Indian citizenship. According to official sources, the number of Pakistani Hindus living in the state is estimated to be around 20,000. If everything goes in their favour, most of them would become Indian citizens by March end. Most of these Pakistani Hindus fled to India in the wake of the 1965, 1971 war between the two countries and refuse to go back, as they fear oppression by the Pakistani Government. There are a few cases in which, some Indian Muslims married Pakistani Muslims and brought them here as their wives on valid visas. They kept extending the visas and at the same time applied for Indian citizenship. Similarly, there are many Pakistani Hindus who came on valid documents but stayed back illegally as their visa period was over. Most of the Hindus either belong to the Sodha Rajput community or Meghwal Dalit community. Before coming to India, they were living in Bahawalpur and Rahimyar Khan districts of Pakistan which are close to the international border. For the last four decades they have been running from pillar to post to get Indian citizenship but, owing to international legal problems they did not succeed. Their cases were pending with the Union Home Ministry which in consultation with External Affairs Ministry grants citizenship in such cases. On the persuasion of the Rajasthan Government, the previous NDA Government at the Centre authorised district collectors to consider these cases and take a final decision on the merit of each case. Around this time, the Union Government increased the fee to apply for Indian citizenship to Rs. 5,000 which most of these Pakistani Hindus could not afford. After delays, the actual process of receiving the application started in November-December last year when the Government waved the hiked fee. The collectors could entertain the applications till February end so cases could be decided before March 31.
Posted by: rajesh_g Jan 17 2005, 11:50 PM
Posted by: Naresh Jan 18 2005, 04:12 AM
QUOTE (rajesh_g @ Jan 18 2005, 06:01 AM)
Naresh, Would you like to write an article covering various aspects of this pipeline ? It will make writing letters easier. We can even forward the link and get better publicity ?
rajesh_g, Please E-Mail me at Thanks
Posted by: Naresh Jan 18 2005, 04:44 AM WASHINGTON, Jan 17: A World Bank official has said that Pakistan's efforts to settle its dispute over the Baglihar hydropower project with India through third party mediation may not be very fruitful. Talking to reporters here, the official said the 1960 treaty clearly said that an international arbitration could only be sought through mutual consent and India could delay adjudication by refusing to give its consent. The official, however, expressed the belief that Pakistan and India could still settle the dispute bilaterally. He said that since 9/11 India had successfully portrayed itself as a victim of "Pakistan-sponsored terrorist attacks" in Kashmir and would like to maintain the advantage. On the water issue, he said, India was clearly in a weaker position and if it was seen as depriving Pakistan of a natural source of water, it would lose the advantage it had gained over the issue of terrorism. That's why, the official said, he believed India would ultimately settle the issue amicably with Pakistan.

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